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bshelly
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71730 posts
Fri Dec-22-00 09:17 AM

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"Killing Common's Career"


  

          

This has probably been covered, but I don't come here much, I didn't find an old thread, and I just saw this atrocity last night.

What am I talking about? What the FUCK is with the "Ghetto Heaven" remix? Could the song be any wacker? Well, the obvious answer is yes, when it's paired with the ridiculous video. Something to ponder for anyone affiliated with this atrocity (talking to you, Labelguy):

Common has spent his entire career dodging the "hip-hop for white people" label. The success of LWFC is based on one single, "The Light," that goes a long way to confirming the most self-conscious fears of all the thugs and suburban wanna-be thugs that Common is soft as shit. Hip-hop artists that alienate their core audience fade away, LL Cool J notwithstanding.

With all this in mind, what good could possibly come by pairing Common with a singer with zero street credibility and that most hip-hop fans find more than a little wack? And, if you had to make the remix that way, was putting Common in some funkless, oranged out, early 80s graphic design wanker computer shitstorm the way to promote it?

Whoever's responsible for this, know that you've managed to take one of the most talented MCs in the game and put him into a situation where he looks wacker than "Pumps and a Bump" era Hammer. This is an entirely short-cited attempt to squeeze as much life out of LWFC as possible with zero respect for Common's long-term success, which he's worked so hard to build. My main hope is that no one sees or hears this video--maybe it won't piss off hip-hop's base that way, and Com can lick his wounds and come back strong on the next album. My fear, though, is he's going to get tagged with this atrocity the way PE got tagged for their Anthrax cover. Credibility evaporated, game set match.

My secondary hope is that all parties responsible for this remix get the pink slip to go along with their XMas bonuses.


-----
bshelly: whiter than Eminem, and just as angry

"You won't see me, you won't SEEEEE me." --Dinosaur Jr.

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
RE: Killing Common's Career
Quinn
Dec 22nd 2000
1
well judging from his past record sales......
Dec 22nd 2000
2
RE: well judging from his past record sales......
Princeguy
Dec 22nd 2000
3
RE: well judging from his past record sales......
Quinn
Dec 22nd 2000
5
RE: well judging from his past record sales......
Dec 23rd 2000
14
      RE: well judging from his past record sales......
Dec 23rd 2000
16
      they had a video for that?
Dec 23rd 2000
19
love times pi
Dec 22nd 2000
4
RE: well judging from his past record sales......
Dec 22nd 2000
6
RE: well judging from his past record sales......
Dec 22nd 2000
7
RE: well judging from his past record sales......
Faction
Dec 22nd 2000
8
reality check
Dec 23rd 2000
13
      ps: I like the remix
Dec 23rd 2000
20
RE:Doesn't really have anything to do with the point, and beat to death ...
Dec 22nd 2000
9
just wondering, mister wizard,
nappyhead earth
Dec 25th 2000
27
Street cred = Broke????
Dec 23rd 2000
10
RE: The only reason LWFC sold like it did is because the light got mad r...
Dec 23rd 2000
11
The video is weak!
Dec 23rd 2000
12
RE: The video is weak!
Quinn
Dec 23rd 2000
15
      Its really actually funny...
Illosophicles
Dec 23rd 2000
17
RE: Killing Common's Career
Joe_Chicken
Dec 23rd 2000
18
supersquawK!
Dec 24th 2000
21
I hate to even respond to this but
Dec 24th 2000
22
RE: I hate to even respond to this but
Dec 26th 2000
32
you just made my sig. I'm feeling that
Jan 07th 2001
41
RE: Killing Common's Career
Dec 24th 2000
23
RE: Killing Common's Career
Quinn
Dec 24th 2000
24
      wack audiences
Dec 25th 2000
25
RE: Killing Common's Career
Dec 25th 2000
26
This is a WTF?? if ever I saw one
peacefornow
Dec 26th 2000
28
RE: This is a WTF?? if ever I saw one
Quinn
Dec 26th 2000
29
I'd bet my gonads
Dec 26th 2000
33
Macy Gray cross-over
Dec 26th 2000
34
u'r preaching to the choir
Dec 26th 2000
30
and my opinion has ZERO
Dec 26th 2000
31
      Agreed.
Dec 26th 2000
35
bshelly, i love u
Dec 26th 2000
36
fire, I love you too
Dec 26th 2000
37
u & D'Angelo
Dec 27th 2000
38
      RE: u & D'Angelo
Dec 27th 2000
39
Killing Common's Career...Dont Think So
Suspekt
Dec 27th 2000
40

Quinn

Fri Dec-22-00 09:52 AM

  
1. "RE: Killing Common's Career"
In response to Reply # 0


          

This has been covered to death. Right now it's to Okay Artist what "Jay-Z debates" are to The Lesson. If you search the forum, you should find label guy and ?uest's defenses of this track. (?uest's is pretty recent I think, so you should be able to find that.) I don't like the song any more than you do, but I don't think it's ruining Com's carrear, creativly anyway. The issue about what it's doing to his audience is interesting though, I'll look into that.

  

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qoolquest
Charter member
10251 posts
Fri Dec-22-00 10:58 AM

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2. "well judging from his past record sales......"
In response to Reply # 0


          

one more "can i borrow/ressur/it'll all" like record sales, and money wouldn't have had a career.

and to the contrary, com is jigga's favorite lyricist in hip hop today. and everywhere i roll with dude he gets love times pi.

nobody seems to be that mad at my production because this is my busiest year yet.

this is com's highest selling album yet. and album that was risky as fuck. ain't no "bling bling" on this album. ain't no "DANJA!!!!GET ON THA FLOOR!!!THE NIGGA RAT CHIA!!!" on this record..........

and judging from his earlier videos, i wasn't all that impressed.

so at the rate where money is still himself ("i used to love her's" music was soft jazz, not rza's fodder; and lines like "and i am about to ex-plo-o-o-ode!" where hardly things of freddie foxx dreams") i fail to see where you see com's career fuck up.

what is credible? what is street cred? hot boys get much love in the streets...

..yet i feel as though you would bitch the same argument.

dmx gets love in the streets. so does r kelly....(phone call interruption it's common...i read this post to him...he's laughing his ass off "tell them niggas on the internet to stop hating and let a brother progess!!!...")

well.....what more can i say. guess it's time to put all of our hopes and dreams into the street cred negro of 2000 (talib? punch and words? rawkus dejour?)...........







december is........

check the resume

organix-93
(from the ground up)-94
do you want more?!!???!-95
illadelph halflife-96
things fall apart-99
(the legendary)-99
the roots come alive-99
phrenology-2002
the tipping point-2004
(the roots present...) 2004
homegrown: the beginne

  

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Princeguy

Fri Dec-22-00 11:20 AM

  
3. "RE: well judging from his past record sales......"
In response to Reply # 2


          

Mann, Common's video and the remix is real nice. This entire idea of street credibility is bullshit. The "streets" is no "role model". Common doesn't owe anything to the "streets". He doesn't have to pledge some sort of allegiance to the "streets". Personally, i'm feeling the song and the video(the director of the video is absolutely beautiful as hell), if you aren't, that's your option, but to think his career is in jeopardy because he doesn't try to be somebody he's not(like most studiogangsta m.c.'s) is ridiculous. The video was real nice and I like the concept. You don't have to act like a fool and prove you're from the "streets" to have a career in hip hop. We gotta get over that mentality.

  

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Quinn

Fri Dec-22-00 12:29 PM

  
5. "RE: well judging from his past record sales......"
In response to Reply # 3


          

>The "streets" is no
>"role model". Common doesn't owe
>anything to the "streets". He
>doesn't have to pledge some
>sort of allegiance to the
>"streets".

I think he's already done that in various songs and lyrics though. From what I read his whole defence of being homophobic was "I'm from the 'streets'" (not quite those words though). I'm not saying Common should act "street", LWFC is classic to me, but you can't discount the value of "street" cred anymore than the value of good music. Just cause Common is doing something different from what the "streets" want or what "radio" wants doesn't make it good.

  

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spirit
Charter member
21116 posts
Sat Dec-23-00 10:07 AM

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14. "RE: well judging from his past record sales......"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

>Common doesn't owe
>anything to the "streets".

"sending smoke signals to let the streets know I'm with em" - Common, "The 6th Sense"

You were saying?

He
>doesn't have to pledge some
>sort of allegiance to the
>"streets".

see above quote.

he apparently thinks he does.

Personally, i'm feeling the
>song and the video(the director
>of the video is absolutely
>beautiful as hell), if you
>aren't, that's your option, but
>to think his career is
>in jeopardy because he doesn't
>try to be somebody he's
>not(like most studiogangsta m.c.'s) is
>ridiculous.

whoop-whoop! reading comprehension police, pull over. no one said Com should have tried to be someone he is not.

to the contrary, bshelly was apparently saying that rocking with macy gray in outer space in a video IS trying to be someone common is not. bshelly, holla if i have misinterpreted you.

The video was real
>nice and I like the
>concept. You don't have to
>act like a fool and
>prove you're from the "streets"
>to have a career in
>hip hop. We gotta get
>over that mentality.

yeah, we do have to get over that mentality. but right now, that mentality sells records and Com's getting with Macy was a strategic attempt to get him to a wider demographic (if it wasn't, he could have gotten some talented unknown singer to do the hook, like Rebekah...or Chantay Savage...ha).

Okay, anyway...

I don't think this will affect Common at all because most people who buy records have zero attention span. I talk to people about songs that came out a year ago and they barely remember. It's sad. Ask some random person in your local record store's hip-hop section about "Invocation" and see if they remember that as Common song or recall the video at all (backed with "hungry").

Easy,

Spirit

http://www.theamphibians.com - CLICK
IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"I don't know I just picture him as the
Hip Hop Grim Reaper coming to my door
step when I die, with the hoddie and
all." Los79 on Hub the Grim Bassist

Peace,

Spirit (Alan)
http://wutangbook.com

  

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bshelly
Charter member
71730 posts
Sat Dec-23-00 11:31 AM

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16. "RE: well judging from his past record sales......"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

>to the contrary, bshelly was apparently
>saying that rocking with macy
>gray in outer space in
>a video IS trying to
>be someone common is not.
>bshelly, holla if i have
>misinterpreted you.
>

Pretty much you hit it on the head, but I should clarify. From the tone of ?uest's posts and the updates when this idea was first floated, I doubt the idea to collaborate with Macy was Common's. As someone else said, Macy is this year's winner of the Acceptable Black Artist Sweepstakes, and I think some misinformed soul at MCA thought that Macy has a young, hip-hop friendly audience. She doesn't. She has a 88.5 WXPN, safe soul for older and funkless white folks appeal. Nothing wrong with that, and her album's nice and sweet. But there's nothing on it that's going to speak to either a younger urban audience or a high school football playin' whitey from Iowa. It's a bad choice, commercially, and artistically she brings mediocrity to the table. Safe, tepid songs that don't challenge the listener at all. I can't see Com calling her up and wanting to collab. This reeks of an industry type who understands neither music nor marketing.

And the question of whether or not Common stayed true to himself collaborating with Macy is somewhat irrelevent. We all have true thoughts, potential actions, and creative impulses that we put the kaibosh on every day, because we know they're ultimately self-destructive. Even if he really, really wanted to hook up with Macy, Com should have used some discrestion. But, again, I don't buy the notion that this was Com's idea. Whoever gave him the advice to hook up with Macy should damn well know better--it'd be silly if it weren't setting Com's career back.

Oh, and ?uest should stop taking every criticism of some aspect of a project he's involved in as a sweeping inditement of his entire life. I said I didn't like Macy and the video--never said nada about your production. Simmer down.

-----
bshelly: practicing a gradual withdrawal since June 2000

"You won't see me, you won't SEEEEE me." --Dinosaur Jr.

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

  

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reefdogg
Charter member
2870 posts
Sat Dec-23-00 10:01 PM

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19. "they had a video for that?"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

Ask some random person
>in your local record store's
>hip-hop section about "Invocation" and
>see if they remember that
>as Common song or recall
>the video at all (backed
>with "hungry").

news to me ...

----
IM and ICQ name: reefdogg1 (number one at the end)

Mondays, 8pm-11pm EST: a hip hop radio show on the rocks ... eff the watered down ish
http://www.bsrlive.com/ - click on the hi fi/low fi right under the picture

nas is like ...

i scream at the mirror, curse, asking god, why me? / run in the black church, gun in my hand, y'all try me / i'm god son, son of man, son of marcus garvey / rastarfari ari, hail ali salasi / police try to break us, but the streets rasied us / it takes more than metal bars, we're destined for ours / i hear murder plans from dope fiends, with elephant hands / snot's in their nostril, the block is hostile / there's no pots to piss in, blocks is spit / rocks is cookin, underground bodies stiffening, cops lookin / bird shit, droppin on the window pane / the oxygen is cocaine, it drove lots of men to die with no name / i've been on boats, nut down throats, pee on bitches who are famous / pretty dick, leavin stitches in their anus / i'm the animal that hugh heffner created / the only nigga that sade dated, the most hated, nas nigga

i heard you fags wanna catch me off guard, put techs in my heart / the death of escobar under ya rep, whispers in the dark / i hear it cause the street ain't loyal to choose sides / prepare for the beef whoever lose dies / rich and i'm thuggin, i can't trust nothin / this bitch that i'm fuckin, this clip that i'm bustin / could jam in my fist, look at my hand / fingered pussy more expensive rings cut coke cookies / wrote poetry and broke noses b / voices heaven, i'm god son, of course a legend / this is part one, speak my sermon, the hood reverend / blunted eyes red, see ass a hundred times five res / cds blast, speed fast haters drop dead / i'm gorgeous, black artist flip the armrest and grab the cordless / somebody stacks the best, ass is flawless / finally the long awaited shit ghetto people / the sequel, nas, cnn, nobody's equal

noreaga is like ...

b eeeeeezzzzzzzzzzzeeeeee, keep the club off the heeeeeeeezzzzzzzzzeeeeeee, see us thuggin in the back, drinkin greeeeeeezzzzzeeeeeeee, see we still smoke trrrrreeeeeeeeeezzzzzeeeeeee, see us rippin the shows with darryl eeeeeeeeezzzzzzeeeeeeeeee



  

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B
Charter member
644 posts
Fri Dec-22-00 12:12 PM

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4. "love times pi"
In response to Reply # 2


          

now that's funny!
B

Move Over, Girl: A Novel - in stores NOW
(yeah, i wrote it. no, i'm not the guy on the cover.)
Random House
www.chance22.com

--
now playing: The African American Student's Guide to Excellence in College
on deck: another installment of Okaybooks
archives: Spoken Words | Move Over Girl

www.chance22.com
www.lionsstory.org
www.okayplayer.com/books

  

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bshelly
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71730 posts
Fri Dec-22-00 01:47 PM

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6. "RE: well judging from his past record sales......"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

First off, thanks for the reply, especially since I am sure this topic has been beaten to death. And of course I don't have a problem with your production as a general phenomena. I could go on and on about how I love it, how the beat on the remix is the least offensive part of the song, etc., but I'm not here to kiss ass. I'm here to make an argument.

>one more "can i borrow/ressur/it'll all"
>like record sales, and money
>wouldn't have had a career.

Yeah, this is kind of my point. Com has managed, through hard work and perserverence, to build a career, and you, ?uestlove, deserve no small thanks from him and his fans for helping to take him to the next level. What I'm scared of is that a move so blatantly commercial as this remix will erode the foundations of everything you've done.

>
>this is com's highest selling album
>yet. and album that was
>risky as fuck. ain't no
>"bling bling" on this album.
>ain't no "DANJA!!!!GET ON THA
>FLOOR!!!THE NIGGA RAT CHIA!!!" on
>this record..........

No argument there. This is why I love the Com, and why LWFC is my favorite Com album. But that doesn't mean the remix, which isn't on the album, is a good idea.

>so at the rate where money
>is still himself ("i used
>to love her's" music was
>soft jazz, not rza's fodder;
>and lines like "and i
>am about to ex-plo-o-o-ode!" where
>hardly things of freddie foxx
>dreams") i fail to see
>where you see com's career
>fuck up.

This is what I worry about:
1) Macy Gray is a terrible choice. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think the Macy Gray crowd is the crowd Common needs to reach to continue his career. I think I know half of the, what, 3 million people who've bought On How Life Is. To be blunt, they have it shelved between their Cracker and Joan Osbourne CDs in their room in the sorority house. They liked the single, but they ain't the types who are going to support black music, especially an intelligent, pro-black artist such as Com. So one isn't expanding Com's audience with her spot.

And I think there's a strong argument that could be made that Macy Gray alienates Com's base. Look, regardless what one thinks of Macy's artistry (and I'm ambivalent towards her personally), among the extended backpacker community (that you know Com sells most of his records to), Macy is regarded with suspicion. The general perception seems to be that she's a novelty act with a funny but safe voice that has taken Erykah's work, watered it down for mass consumption, and made a good living. How often do you hear any of her stuff on urban radio? Doesn't it make it all the more easier to tag Com a sell-out (or something equally repugnant to 17 year olds) for having worked with an artist 90 percent of the hip-hop community won't touch, especially in light of "The Light," a fabulous song that nonetheless has got people screaming soft in other circles? Hip-hop people love most of the traditional forms of selling out, but show them softness and you're done. Using Macy puts the remix in PM Dawn territory, which is not the place to be.

2) The video is wack. You know this better than I do: music matters to the soul, but packaging matters to the masses. Those 17 year olds are gonna see that video once and take it as what it is: a corny orgy of computer effects. I worry that they're turned off to Com from this point on.

I'm not a protector of Com's career, and he doesn't owe me a damn thing. It does seem to me, however, that if he wants to stay in this he'd do best not to let his label or whoever force a mismatched collaborator or a tacky video concept down his throat, especially now that he's got the spotlight. It's not like before "The Light." He's a marked man, and he's got a limited time to prove he belongs on the plateau he's reached before the industry pushes him back down. He can't afford to waste singles, and putting out wackness like this remix will nail his coffin shut.

-----
bshelly: practicing a gradual withdrawal since June 2000

"You won't see me, you won't SEEEEE me." --Dinosaur Jr.

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

  

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Maverick
Charter member
2 posts
Fri Dec-22-00 02:40 PM

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7. "RE: well judging from his past record sales......"
In response to Reply # 6


          

if you don't like the song and video that is your opinion but i think you are over exaggerating...I don't think workin with Macy is going to alienate Com's base supporters because if they have followed him then they know that he does not follow any trends and pushes the envelope artistically...therefore the fact that "90% of hip hoppers won't work with Macy", or whatever you said, is irrelevant...And also, i am what you would consider a backpacker and i love Macy's album...I think she is a very talented artist and song writer...Also, i don't see the Erykah Badu comparisons...Her album reminds me not in the least bit of anything that Erykah has ever come out with...The video is not a problem either as i see it...It is an alternative to all the bullshit videos with hoes in bikinis and wack emcees flashin jewels in the camera...Anybody that likes good music will not have a problem with the song...Those people that you say are going to think Com is "soft" are the ones bling blingin, are like their emcees to bark alot...and if you remember 1' 2 (from one day...), you will know how much Com cares about being considered "hard"...like the man said, let him progress, he is more successful than ever and his music is a good and soulful as ever...so i don't see the problem...he is in no danger of being considered a sell out...also, your comments about Macy's core audience not being supportive of Com...First off, i don't think that is true...I mean they just completed a tour together and at least at the show i went to Macy's fans gave much love to Com...Second, even if they are not supporters of Com, maybe that is the point, to bring two different audiences together...like BEP says, maybe they are trying to "bridge the gaps"...and i think they are being pretty successful at it...i mean the man is gettin love at mtv, bet, the radio, and is a fond as ever still in the hearts of us underground heads...so i guess what i am sayin is that your opinion of the song is fine, if you don't like it you don't like it...but your talk of a this being a bad career move and that he is going to be considered "soft" and that he might be labeled a "sell out" i think that talk is pretty ignorant...but that is just my two cents....peace




Hit me up at Madlib2361@aol.com

"I love my music, I love my momma, I love myself. I love you and you love me."-Common

"I give a damn if any man recall my legacy. I'm tryin to live life in the sight of God's memory"-Mos Def

"Might be over your head, but it's straight from the heart."-Talib Kweli


  

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Faction

Fri Dec-22-00 09:43 PM

  
8. "RE: well judging from his past record sales......"
In response to Reply # 2


          

"what is credible?"

it's my rhyme name....thank u very much....gimmie shout out on da new lp

  

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spirit
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21116 posts
Sat Dec-23-00 09:58 AM

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13. "reality check"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

everything the Quester said made sense UNTIL

>and judging from his earlier videos,
>i wasn't all that impressed.

I'm sorry, chief, but the "Ghetto Heaven" remix is not the best of Common's videos. It may be the most expensive, but it ain't the best. I kinda favor the "Resurrection" video myself (with the editing cuts matching the DJing cuts and all the down home shots of folks in Chicago). The "Sixth Sense" video, although sorta similar in content to X's "What You See..." video, is pretty ill.

>so at the rate where money
>is still himself ("i used
>to love her's" music was
>soft jazz, not rza's fodder;
>and lines like "and i
>am about to ex-plo-o-o-ode!" where
>hardly things of freddie foxx
>dreams")

hold the phone again. my copy of "one day" got stolen, but if memory serves "hungry" was harder (uh-oh, there goes the h-word) than anything on LWFC and Com's lyricism throughout "resurrection" was way more intricate (in terms of double and triple meanings) than 90% of LWFC. Depending on what kind of lyricism you dig, Com has either come up or dumbed down (Resurrection for the double meaning fiends, LWFC for the concept song fiends).

>what is credible? what is street
>cred? hot boys get much
>love in the streets...

I'll tell you this, bruh, Com wearing that sleeveless sweater did elicit a bit of clowning from some of the regular DC cats I know who have seen the video.

>dmx gets love in the streets.

probably due in part to the fact that he never wears sleeveless sweaters. HA.

It's all good. I like Andre's crazy dressing ass, so I gotta let Com skate on that too.

Easy,

Spirit

http://www.theamphibians.com - CLICK
IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"I don't know I just picture him as the
Hip Hop Grim Reaper coming to my door
step when I die, with the hoddie and
all." Los79 on Hub the Grim Bassist

Peace,

Spirit (Alan)
http://wutangbook.com

  

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spirit
Charter member
21116 posts
Sat Dec-23-00 10:23 PM

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20. "ps: I like the remix"
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

I just don't understand the need to dis Common's prior work to response to criticism of his current work, so i had to respond to that.

I like the video too, EXCEPT for the sleeveless sweater. HA.

all the other clothes are way different, but still sort of pimp-like.

(i'm kidding, pimps suck)

(and the way pimps dress sucks even more)

(buuuuuuuut if com is gonna do the 70's thing, the fur coats and stuff do it well enough...)

("hey brother, let me grow!" - Com, in sleeveless sweater, rocking a fur diaper, at the video shoot for Black Thought's new single)

- Spirit

http://www.theamphibians.com - Late
releasing new music since 1998.


Braggadocious quotes month

"proven to be the illest emcee
something's wrong with your motor skills
cause y'all ain't moving me
i'm who you see musically
when you want it done hot
comparing you to me
is a lesson in futility, stop
I paint pictures beautifully
but n----s is near-sighted
don't worry about plagairism
it'll take em years to bite it
Your greatest fear
I don't write it
it just appears
out of nowhere
like the information
(on my site?)
like it or not
I paid dues,
I expect to be paid back
why the f--k should I freestyle?
I get paid to rap
I slay the track
laid back
????
tell your gods ??? first name him?
jay hova
spitting game in a range rover
f--k is y'all doing in the third lane,
get over!
slow your roll up
I got it sewn up like a tailor
relatively easy (Eazy)
like Jerry Heller"

Jay Z, "Drama" (white label)

Peace,

Spirit (Alan)
http://wutangbook.com

  

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Skillz
Member since Jun 05th 2003
576 posts
Fri Dec-22-00 09:56 PM

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9. "RE:Doesn't really have anything to do with the point, and beat to death ..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

Much as we're all happy for the boa and we respect him for his Skillz LWFC is still a lukewarm reckit.

Its like an easy listening joint. You can try to dress it up by calling it Jazzy if you want. The chord changes and vibe on most of this joint are boring... Period.( course this is all just my opinion)

In classic OKP fashion Com and alot of his fansand (some crew) have mistaken Change for Growth. Regardless of what he's going through personally, and all that to me this record doesn't represent growth. Yeah its Different but so what. Post album Mos seems to be suffering from the same disease. Different is not always better some cats need to stick to turntables and Mp's, and stop trying to be D'angelo
(whose second record did represent real growth) as opposed to easy listening foolery thats not fooling me.

Okay bring on the bullets

Yeah I got dreams...and all of em are in my backpack.

  

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nappyhead earth

Mon Dec-25-00 07:27 PM

  
27. "just wondering, mister wizard,"
In response to Reply # 9


          


>
>In classic OKP fashion Com and
>alot of his fansand (some
>crew) have mistaken Change for
>Growth. Regardless of what he's
>going through personally, and all
>that to me this record
>doesn't represent growth.

>Different is not
>always better some cats need
>to stick to turntables and
>Mp's, and stop trying to
>be D'angelo
>(whose second record did represent real
>growth) as opposed to easy
>listening foolery thats not fooling
>me.
>
>Okay bring on the bullets


peace
no bullets...just questions...What determines "change" and what determines "growth?" Better yet, "WHO" determines either one?

just wondering
peace, nappyhead


"tell me what you gon' do to get free? WE NEED MORE THAN EMCEES, WE NEED HUEYS, AND REVOLUTIONARIES..." M1, deadprez

"with the painstaking presicion of taggin'
with a Magnum on thread
I sowed my own Parable..."--me

  

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mellow
Charter member
1905 posts
Sat Dec-23-00 08:02 AM

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10. "Street cred = Broke????"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Opinions on com's latest remix and lp are all subjective. It's cool to love it or hate it. But let's look at 1 point for the moment - Street cred.
So some people in here feel he's losing street cred with his recent projects.
Okay, so it's safe to assume that some of his early works gave him the rep.
If you were to take it from com's perspective for a sec (this is my assumption, not necessarily his), I assume com's been in the game for about 10years. Probably bustin' his ass to be heard and respected. In the meantime, he's sharpened his skills (which is more important than anything else), and progressed steadily.
so com gets acclaim by the streets for can i borrow a dollar or ressurection. That's cool.
But that street rep didn't necessarily translate into financial stability.
His latest release has most likely outsold all off his 3 previous lp's combined. So that's a good thing on many fronts.
I don't think com damaged his rep with his latest works, but enhanced it. We all know com has raw skills, but he also shows how he can challenge himself to raise his own "standards".
How many people do you know want to be the same thing for the rest of their lives. Not many, we all change as we age (good or bad). Why would you want com to stay the same way and spit the same shit over and over??
Would you like to see com being a middle-aged guy performing in little clubs opening up for some local acts doing his street cred. hits and still living with his moms????
Just look at jungle brothers, Run DMC for example. The only way jungle brothers are still making money is performing at raves doing "girl i'll house you". Same as Run DMC, all their doing is performing their early shit. Why? because they both haven't progressed. They stayed within their little public's bubble of perception.
Though com's early works are excellent, I wouldn't want to see him rely on just those hits. Progression means longevity.
There are 2 scenarios that an artist has to confront to "put food on the table";
An artist does well with their classics, getting booked for shows and radio play.
When that interest dies down, then the artist has to somehow rediscover themselves to stay in the game (i.e. Jungle brothers V.I.P. lp, going from hip-hop to breakbeat style). If that doesn't work, then it's time for them to start looking for real work (i.e. chi-ali; working in the mailroom of some office tower.).
The second alternative is not to rest on the laurels of your previous successes, and challenge yourself to make the music relevant to what your feeling at the time.
As an artist, you want to choose what direction you are going to, and not let your direction be chosen for you by what's hot at the moment. All in all, i'd say the most successful acts are those that keep their fans guessing as to what they'll be coming out with next (i.e. the roots). Being predictable will gain success (i.e. R.Kelly), but it won't guarantee longevity.

  

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Skillz
Member since Jun 05th 2003
576 posts
Sat Dec-23-00 08:31 AM

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11. "RE: The only reason LWFC sold like it did is because the light got mad r..."
In response to Reply # 10


          

The sixth sense barely got radio and it got a little video.

Due to connections Common has he was able to get "the light" not even the best song on that album on the Radio. And he scored. He got more Radio than ever before in his career..hence more record sales. Anyone who knows anything about the innerworkings of radio (and I'm not talking about college) knows that radio is completely about cash and politics.(If you are thinking about arguing with that point ..turn the radio on first) Its the same with the roots and "You got me" which by itself to TFA to gold(although that was a tight ass reckit) The light by itself took that lukewarm record to gold. I don't think

And no I don't want Com to starve.
What I want is for artists and fans Alike to stop justifying thngs based on "I had to eat"
Fans have to eat to but you still want them to buy your records.

LWFC is not completely wack. Just don't act like its "are you experienced" or even "Iladelph halflife" its more like "the love movement"

Yeah I got dreams...and all of em are in my backpack.

  

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dayzblack
Charter member
1129 posts
Sat Dec-23-00 08:48 AM

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12. "The video is weak!"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

That shit looks like one of those "make your own video" shits at Great Adventures. The song is cool, not a favorite-and not totally because of Macy- although I beleive she is a shoe in for the "NEGRO Of The Year:Illusion of Inclusion Award"(just ahead of Sisqo) from those good ol' whitefolk that just were dying for her to do a collabo with Rosie O'Donnel.
Anyway back on topic, Comm looks like he is doing what it takes to break through that platinum ceiling, and we all here at OKP would love to see that wouldn't we? But, Com after you do that can you please drop a fuckin' white label/Napster distributed hand on your balls banga for us. "wtf is Com doing?!" cats in the streets. "Why a nigga when he conscious gotta get all smoove?" It's the questions, it's the questions...

Follow me on Twitter, and talk shit LIVE!
http://twitter.com/dlemoncomedy

  

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Quinn

Sat Dec-23-00 11:20 AM

  
15. "RE: The video is weak!"
In response to Reply # 12


          

>That shit looks like one of
>those "make your own video"
>shits at Great Adventures. The
>song is cool, not a
>favorite-and not totally because of
>Macy- although I beleive she
>is a shoe in for
>the "NEGRO Of The Year:Illusion
>of Inclusion Award"(just ahead of
>Sisqo) from those good ol'
>whitefolk that just were dying
>for her to do a
>collabo with Rosie O'Donnel.

That's funny, cause when I heard the Ghetto Heaven Remix I thought it sounded like it belongs on Rosie O'Donnell's Christmas album or something. If they ever wanted to put a rap song on one of Rosie's Christmas joints, I bet you could sell that on there.

  

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Illosophicles

Sat Dec-23-00 11:36 AM

  
17. "Its really actually funny..."
In response to Reply # 15


          

i was just listening to that joint for the first time last nite....man i am not feelin this one Com, but anyhow....i used to like Macy...but to me her whole style has kinda changed, he voice hasn't, but her style has...Im no sure anymore...but i don't know why the original joint wasn't the joint on the radio...D and Com made a much better song with the original. I love Common to death....i know i don't really need to tell you why...just listen to him...but that choice for that song man...its not your best work...oh....one more thing...its funny how some people start getting upset that an underground artist is getting airplay or gettin inot the mainstream...I myself always say "aww man, this shit is gonna be so mainstream now, ALL of america who love mainstream hip hop is gonna like this now...damn..but you know...im happy for the artist, i don;t know why i get upset when i se potential turn kinetic...but hey...bless you Com and all the struggling artists...you and many other artists out there have made a change in my way of seeing things. oh one more question for ?uest, Com is Jay-Z's favorite mc right now...no shit???!! crazy!

  

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Joe_Chicken

Sat Dec-23-00 06:39 PM

  
18. "RE: Killing Common's Career"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I'm feelin' you man. That's what I been talkin' bout all weak, about that gay ass video. What's the fuck up with that mug wearin'. That shit is fucked up man. I'd rather see him wear a fur coat. And you don't have to bite your tounge for macy Gray!! We all know that she annoying as hell!! damn, now you got me mad again! And I was just about to post somethin' real stupid. The Re-mix sucks, but at least it's better than B.G- I Know.









CHICKEN CHICK CHICK CHICK CHICKEN (UH
C"MON UH C"MON) !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Organized Konfusion

  

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fire
Charter member
111370 posts
Sun Dec-24-00 07:02 AM

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21. "supersquawK!"
In response to Reply # 0


          

_____________________________________________________________________
EVERYBODY'S GOTTA LITTLE LIGHT UNDER THE SUN.......SHINING ON THE FUNK.........

"no offense but you have no soul" - CNOTE

...u sho is uglysexy! - Ninjaette

"fuck you, you aint getting shit from me. my breasts aint stuffed with cash bitch. aint nobody getting shit from me but a stink attitude and a middle finger. hell its xmas everyday around here fucker"- girlchild

"if i weren't doing some kind of art...i would be dead." -erykah badu



________________________________________
who gonna check me boo?!

www.twitter.com/firefire100
http://instagram.com/firefire100
www.philadelphiaeagles.com

  

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L_O_Quent
Charter member
15282 posts
Sun Dec-24-00 08:58 AM

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22. "I hate to even respond to this but"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I have to...

Okay I'm tired of seeing this Com hating going on so damn much. It's A song, as in one and if you don't like it you don't like.

Let's try that- I don't like it. Now doesn't that feel better. I personnally feel the hell out of it. But it seems pple want to read a little to damn deep into the "meaning" of this song. I think it was stated on another post but Com didn't change the lyrics or anything and D'angelo dropped out on it so what's the big deal?
You don't like Macy Grey, fine don't like the song but I'm sure that Com isn't going to be VH1's darling anytime soon so chill.

Hey if you think hip hop is only supposed to be for a certain group then you have it wrong, shit I went to Mos' concert and stood next to a 40 year old history teacher looking cat that not only felt Mos he said every single word of every song and tapped me when the first chords on a new song started on some that's my shit type steez. It's music. Not a country club.

Relax, if Com starts talking about slinging crack and thuggin' then you can worry. Otherwise I'm sure that his career isn't being flushed down the toilet, unless I haven't heard about his song with NSync.

Peace


Sometimes I don't even know how I'm gonna eat 'bout twenty dollars away from being on the street - Cee-Lo

My oral illitration be like clitoral stimpulation to the female gender - Dre

My Dread... Locks and chains my mouth so I write in undeciperable hiroglyphics and Dead Sea Manuscript - L_O_Quent

The offspring :-D

PSN & XBL: LOQuent

  

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bshelly
Charter member
71730 posts
Tue Dec-26-00 08:54 AM

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32. "RE: I hate to even respond to this but"
In response to Reply # 22


  

          


Then don't. No one's forcing you to. Very simple, and saves you the stress of clensing the world from "Common haters" like myself.

-----
bshelly: practicing a gradual withdrawal since June 2000

"You won't see me, you won't SEEEEE me." --Dinosaur Jr.

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

  

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estilosa
Charter member
1208 posts
Sun Jan-07-01 06:27 PM

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41. "you just made my sig. I'm feeling that"
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

"It's music. Not a country club."
~L_O_Quent


"don't test me."
-me

"A lot of things have changed, a lot of things have not-mainly us, but we going to get it together right? I believe that."
- mos def

***my sig went to the store for milk and a pack of cigarettes two years ago...***

http://beadsinthebelfry.blogspot.com

  

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BigWorm
Charter member
10365 posts
Sun Dec-24-00 07:21 PM

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23. "RE: Killing Common's Career"
In response to Reply # 0


          

This is so stupid.

It's okay if you don't like the Ghetto Heaven remix. It's okay if you don't like Macy Gray.

It's even all right if you don't like the new direction Common's taking, or how his wardrobe seems to have drastically changed since One Day It'll All Make Sense.

But please. You don't know Common personally. You can't judge what he would or wouldn't do.

Pairing songs based on 'street cred' is music executive bullshit. It's silliness only to be found in the rap game. Good artists should work with any other good artists if the product is good music. That's the way music progresses.

Why hate on Macy Gray. The fact that she's black and her music gets played on black and white radio stations isn't her fault. So she gets more exposure, fine. If you don't like her voice fine but to judge her on media status is wrong. That's just as bad as the heads who attack eminem because he's a white rapper, instead of judging him on his skills.

1Love,
BigPerm

"Cooler than Freddie Jackson sippin' a milkshake in a snowstorm!" (damn that's cool)

In the Deck:

J88- Best Kept Secret
Joni Mitchell- Heijra
Xzibit- Restless
David Bowie- Ziggy Stardust...
Aimee Mann- I'm With Stupid
The Alkoholiks- 21 and Over
Rahsaan Patterson- Rahsaan Patterson
Pastor Troy and the Congregation- Book 1
Johnny Guitar Watson- Ain't That A Bitch
Led Zepplin- Houses of the Holy
Deftones- White Pony
Prince- Prince
Guru- Jazzmattazz Vol. 1

  

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Quinn

Sun Dec-24-00 08:23 PM

  
24. "RE: Killing Common's Career"
In response to Reply # 23


          

>Pairing songs based on 'street cred'
>is music executive bullshit.
what's the alternative, "college cred"?

I don't think the post presumed to know Common personally, Common could love the song, feel like he's honestly growing, and his fans (or former fans) are still allowed to think it's a wack song that will attract a wack audience. Change doesn't equal growth or good.

  

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BigWorm
Charter member
10365 posts
Mon Dec-25-00 10:57 AM

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25. "wack audiences"
In response to Reply # 24


          

that's a HUGE problem with mainstream music. Most underground heads that turn their noses on mainstream music do so for two main reasons: 1) radio and video wears it out, 2) they think the audience for a certain band is wack.

Judging the quality of the music is a distant third.

Granite, I've fallen into that trap before, it really is a bullshit prejudice. It's as if people feel as though listening to certain music will put you in cohoots with groups that you don't like. Like if you listen to DMB long enough you'll turn into a beer guzzling, date raping frat boy. Or if you love the cash money millionaires, one day your pants will sag down to your knees, you'll rock the bling bling on your wrists, sport du rags and gold-cap all your teeth.

From rap to punk rock it's always the same story.

1Love,
BigPerm

"Cooler than Freddie Jackson sippin' a milkshake in a snowstorm!" (damn that's cool)

In the Deck:

J88- Best Kept Secret
Joni Mitchell- Heijra
Xzibit- Restless
David Bowie- Ziggy Stardust...
Aimee Mann- I'm With Stupid
The Alkoholiks- 21 and Over
Rahsaan Patterson- Rahsaan Patterson
Pastor Troy and the Congregation- Book 1
Johnny Guitar Watson- Ain't That A Bitch
Led Zepplin- Houses of the Holy
Deftones- White Pony
Prince- Prince
Guru- Jazzmattazz Vol. 1

  

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DeeX
Charter member
144 posts
Mon Dec-25-00 03:15 PM

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26. "RE: Killing Common's Career"
In response to Reply # 0


          

>
>What am I talking about?
>What the FUCK is with
>the "Ghetto Heaven" remix?
>Could the song be any
>wacker? Well, the
>obvious answer is yes, when
>it's paired with the ridiculous
>video. Something to ponder
>for anyone affiliated with this
>atrocity (talking to you, Labelguy):
>
>
>Common has spent his entire career
>dodging the "hip-hop for white
>people" label. The success
>of LWFC is based on
>one single, "The Light," that
>goes a long way to
>confirming the most self-conscious fears
>of all the thugs and
>suburban wanna-be thugs that Common
>is soft as shit.
>Hip-hop artists that alienate their
>core audience fade away, LL
>Cool J notwithstanding.
>
>With all this in mind, what
>good could possibly come
>by pairing Common with a
>singer with zero street credibility
>and that most hip-hop fans
>find more than a little
>wack? And, if you
>had to make the remix
>that way, was putting Common
>in some funkless, oranged out,
>early 80s graphic design wanker
>computer shitstorm the way to
>promote it?

Does the bad pairing thing work in reverse order? Will Macy lose her singer credibility by working with Com,Mos Def and Guru?

>Whoever's responsible for this, know that
>you've managed to take one
>of the most talented MCs
>in the game and put
>him into a situation where
>he looks wacker than "Pumps
>and a Bump" era Hammer.
> This is an entirely
>short-cited attempt to squeeze as
>much life out of LWFC
>as possible with zero respect
>for Common's long-term success, which
>he's worked so hard to
>build. My main hope
>is that no one sees
>or hears this video--maybe it
>won't piss off hip-hop's base
>that way, and Com can
>lick his wounds and come
>back strong on the next
>album. My fear, though,
>is he's going to get
>tagged with this atrocity the
>way PE got tagged for
>their Anthrax cover. Credibility
>evaporated, game set match.

Anyone who tagged PE with some label and took away their credibility just because they did a song with Anthrax didn't listen to "She Watch Channel Zero", tracks from Yo Bum Rush the Show and Run DMC's stuff.

>My secondary hope is that all
>parties responsible for this remix
>get the pink slip to
>go along with their XMas
>bonuses.
>
>
>-----
>bshelly: whiter than Eminem, and just
>as angry
>
>"You won't see me, you won't
>SEEEEE me." --Dinosaur Jr.
>



  

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peacefornow

Tue Dec-26-00 06:14 AM

  
28. "This is a WTF?? if ever I saw one"
In response to Reply # 0


          

How is the Geto Heaven remix selling Common over to white people?? With Macy Gray on the vocals, it seems more intended to reach that little BET block of African Americans who ordinarily wouldn't pick up a non-popular slanted, non-bling-blinging, positive-slanted hip hop record, especially from Common.

You lost me duke...


"Guess that's kinda like 'close cover before striking.'" - Samuel L. Jackson, from The Great White Hype

  

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Quinn

Tue Dec-26-00 07:50 AM

  
29. "RE: This is a WTF?? if ever I saw one"
In response to Reply # 28


          

>With Macy Gray on
>the vocals, it seems more
>intended to reach that little
>BET block of African Americans
>who ordinarily wouldn't pick up
>a non-popular slanted, non-bling-blinging, positive-slanted
>hip hop record, especially from
>Common.

But those people were checking for Com to begin with. That was his whole audience.

  

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bshelly
Charter member
71730 posts
Tue Dec-26-00 08:55 AM

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33. "I'd bet my gonads"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          


that Macy Gray sold most of her records to white people. I don't think putting her on board the project can be seen as an outreach to some overlooked segment of the B.E.T. community at all.

-----
bshelly: practicing a gradual withdrawal since June 2000

"You won't see me, you won't SEEEEE me." --Dinosaur Jr.

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

  

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HotThyng76
Charter member
51232 posts
Tue Dec-26-00 09:03 AM

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34. "Macy Gray cross-over"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

I look at it as a way for MACY to cross over to the BET audience that has failed to embrace her as much as the VH1 crowd.

_______________________

  

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JustLisa
Charter member
50994 posts
Tue Dec-26-00 08:00 AM

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30. "u'r preaching to the choir"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

when we were first told of the impending monstrosity that is the "Heaven" remix I cringed because no matter how hard I try, I just can't stomach Macy. The MUSIC is okay but the video? No comment.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage ~ ANAIS NIN

  

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JustLisa
Charter member
50994 posts
Tue Dec-26-00 08:03 AM

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31. "and my opinion has ZERO"
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

to do with "street crediblity", which I, personally, could give less than to f*cks about. I just didn't and still don't think Macy and Common was a good mix.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage ~ ANAIS NIN

  

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HotThyng76
Charter member
51232 posts
Tue Dec-26-00 09:05 AM

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35. "Agreed."
In response to Reply # 31


  

          

From listening to On How Life Is, I thought Macy didn't have no soul...but then I saw her in concert w/Prince and Com and now I know she's got soul by the pound. It doesn't come across on the "Geto Heaven" remix though.

_______________________

  

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fire
Charter member
111370 posts
Tue Dec-26-00 02:08 PM

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36. "bshelly, i love u"
In response to Reply # 0


          

but you are absolutely deluded if u think that video isn't THE shit!

that video is soooooo fly! the lights? i love it!

and macy has pretty eyes.

that is all.

_____________________________________________________________________
EVERYBODY'S GOTTA LITTLE LIGHT UNDER THE SUN.......SHINING ON THE FUNK.........

"no offense but you have no soul" - CNOTE

...u sho is uglysexy! - Ninjaette

"fuck you, you aint getting shit from me. my breasts aint stuffed with cash bitch. aint nobody getting shit from me but a stink attitude and a middle finger. hell its xmas everyday around here fucker"- girlchild

"if i weren't doing some kind of art...i would be dead." -erykah badu



________________________________________
who gonna check me boo?!

www.twitter.com/firefire100
http://instagram.com/firefire100
www.philadelphiaeagles.com

  

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bshelly
Charter member
71730 posts
Tue Dec-26-00 07:35 PM

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37. "fire, I love you too"
In response to Reply # 36


  

          


but the video is the assiest ass in Assville.

I can just hear some maggot director sitting around going, "Whoa, a song about spiritual stuff. Let's put A LOT OF STARS in the video. And instead of Com and Macy jest chilling, let's have them marching around on ORANGE SLABS." Cool beans.

-----
bshelly: practicing a gradual withdrawal since June 2000

"You won't see me, you won't SEEEEE me." --Dinosaur Jr.

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

  

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JustLisa
Charter member
50994 posts
Wed Dec-27-00 04:26 AM

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38. "u & D'Angelo"
In response to Reply # 36


  

          

need to leave that "E" alone!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage ~ ANAIS NIN

  

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cocoaprince
Charter member
237 posts
Wed Dec-27-00 09:59 AM

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39. "RE: u & D'Angelo"
In response to Reply # 38


          

i dont see where everyone thinks he is selling out, i thought the video had a rootsy feel to it, that was no way wack, yall. common is for us, but i mean he wants to elevate, but he is keeping it real, yall. peace and blessings.

  

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Suspekt

Wed Dec-27-00 06:16 PM

  
40. "Killing Common's Career...Dont Think So"
In response to Reply # 0


          

you're right about one thing, macy gray has no street credibility whatsoever. as for the rest, you couldn't be any more wrong. macy gray provided soulful sounds to the track and common displayed his lyrical skill yet again. as for his wardrobe in the video i have to say it was tight, for him. most people couldnt get away with sportin that type of gear but he pulled it off. macy on the other hand looked terrible. that thing she wore looked like trash and she probably could have pulled it off anyway but that hairstyle was NOT working for her at all. as for the glittering lights i think it provided a celestial look that was consistant with the heavenly theme.
to sum it up. aside from macy gray's outrageous appearance common made his presence felt and the video went along with the track. once again Nzingha Stewart shows her directorial prowess my making another great video

-=//> Suspekt <//=-

"My aura illuminates / removin the snakes who lay awake / Lovin to hate / but we still elevate / Massagin the brain, utilize the wisdom contained / Through the knowledge of my circumference and how to maintain"
- Afu Ra -

  

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