Do you agree or disagree with the point that some Whites "act" stereotypically Black? Pay attention to the quotations.
With the new fascination with Eminem, one of my friends brought up the point in one of his songs where he was talking about how everyone thinks he acts Black b/c he wears baggy jeans and some other shit...so is he also stereotyping Black folks??
Is it cool to be Black now?? Because I've always been fascinated with my self? Is it the new thing to leech off of Black culture? Can Black folks define and own their own culture??

Peace
Ailyha

"Everybody's got issues, every-stinkin'-body"

"Boy, you look like steamy hot chocolate poured out on a milky sunrise- Unknown female "Mack"

"I don't know why I love you so much, I don't know...(sound of distress)..." some Stevie Wonder-ish

My Blog. Swing Phi Swing
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JUSTICE
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much love,
Kyle

Detroit..Let's GO!!! May 12th Dilla Walk for Lupus...Belle Isle...

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Even a Dollar can HELP..


http://www.myspace.com/jedikyle
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Don't you think you're being a bit harsh, using words like "leach" and such? Okay, I'm white. I wear baggy Mecca and T5S pants. I listen to Hip-Hop. I have somewhat of a mid-western drawl to my voice (I'm from Colorado) that could be mistaken for the stereotypical "Black voice" (whatever that means). So, should I be persecuted for this? Am I a "leach"? Believe what you will, hate me if you want, but I think too many people are taking this far too seriously. Although I do hope that the fascination with Eminem dies out, because he just represents pure ignorance in my mind. As long as he doesn't do to Hip-Hop what Elvis did to Rock&Roll, I don't think it's that serious of an issue. Peace, Love, and SOUL!!!
-B

sigs:
------------------------------
"It's deep soul, deep church, spiritual roots and deep jazz... I just go as far as I can inside and I bring it out. The thing the church showed me was conviction. DMX rhymes with conviction. Soul is honesty." Bilal, on his music.

"Bilal WILL be an Okayartist!!" -me

Bilal has been on:
*Common's LWFC
*The Love & Basketball Soundtrack
*Guru's Jazzmatazz III: Street Soul
Coming in February: The Album!!!!
If you haven't yet, check him out!!!

"to aim
is to take oneself too seriously
by focusing without instead of within

re arrange and re member

aim...i am

the right letters are there
it's the wrong composition"
-Saul Williams

"Can Black folks define and own their own culture??"

Okay, I just thought of something else. In the quotation above, are you expressing that Hip-Hop should be limited to only Black people? I feel that this is ridiculous! If a Black artist wanted to get into Rock&Roll or country music, the only people protesting would be the feeble minded racists, you know? Other than that, they would, for the most part, be welcomed. I don't see why everybody wants to segregate everything again, especially like music and the culture that surrounds it. Beliefs like these are what fuels racism. As long as White people do not completely take over the culture (Hip-Hop, I mean), then what's the problem? There is not a chance in hell of Hip-Hop becoming solely white like Rock did, so let people do what they want to. Of course, I do have somewhat of a bias since I am a white person that listens to Hip-Hop, so, as I said before, believe what you want to. Peace, Love, and SOUL!!!
-B

sigs:
------------------------------
"It's deep soul, deep church, spiritual roots and deep jazz... I just go as far as I can inside and I bring it out. The thing the church showed me was conviction. DMX rhymes with conviction. Soul is honesty." Bilal, on his music.

"Bilal WILL be an Okayartist!!" -me

Bilal has been on:
*Common's LWFC
*The Love & Basketball Soundtrack
*Guru's Jazzmatazz III: Street Soul
Coming in February: The Album!!!!
If you haven't yet, check him out!!!

"to aim
is to take oneself too seriously
by focusing without instead of within

re arrange and re member

aim...i am

the right letters are there
it's the wrong composition"
-Saul Williams

I think the point everyone is missing is that as Africans in this country, whatever we have created (culturally, artistically, musically, etc.) has always been a representation of our stuggle for acceptance and an identity in America. When we came here, we had nothing and we weren't told our history. We were called niggers, coons, and negroes. These words demean us and do not tell us who we are, or where we come from. We need to have something to tell us who we are. We need our own identity. This is not to say that white people can't listen to hip hop music or for that matter be apart of the culture. It isn't just blacks who are apart of hip hop. Latinos, Asians, and other non-white people are just as instrumental in hip hop as African Americans are. However, I just wish that white people knew the importance of black culture ( I also wish some black folks knew the importance). What we create isn't just music to dance to. Listen to Mos Def's "Rock and Roll." Everything we created has been STOLEN from us. Our music, our art, and our identity. It isn't something that should be taken lightly. Damn right I take my culture seriously. I should have a culture to call my own and not have eurocentric values dictate what I should and should not be. What blacks create always gets spit on in the beginning. Once whites embrace it, it becomes legitimized. That's not fair. This is what pains African Americans. It's like society is telling us that whatever we do, we will never be accepted as anything other than second class citizens. I'm not a racist and I'm not yelling at white people, but please know the importance that our culture holds. Black culture has created and influence hip hop culture and music. Jazz, Rock and Roll, Soul, Negro Spirituals, Blues, and R&B were all created by black people, and these forms of music went into what makes hip hop. Black and white people should never forget that. Peace.


UnOrthoDox.

Man!!!! this is spin-off of what Unorthodox (nov 12)had to say. Everything that you wrote on Nov 12 just made me feel good. I'm from Africa and i have been in the US 3 years and because Eglish is not my langauge i dont say well what i want to say a lot of times, but i am always having deep thouhgts to share. You saying what you said feels to me like i said it.

RECOGNIZE: rap is a tool that American-Africans (because America has refused for centuries, to this day to accept my brothers as equal citizens of this country, they may as well be called American-Africans) have used as a tool to heal themselves and re-assure thmselves that are beautiful people and a proud part of humanity.

RECOGNIZE: that because of that , this is serious to us, Vuduchild, its not just a fad.

RECOGNIZE: that history has shown that black culture has always intrigued white America, and the trend has been that white America looked down on whatever the current fad/artform it was for 10-15 years, then start to imitate it and take over it. You want examples? I got plenty! rock,jazz,graffitti,breakdance,sagging pants,b-boy gear,rap!!!You want more? N'Sync,98 degrees,Backsteet Boys,hoops(earrings),shaping their beard!! Everything i named American-Africans did 10-20 years ago, now white kids are doing it.Who do you think these white boy/girl bands are imitating? Jodeci,Silk,Shai and others.They just waited about 10 years. Everything Britteny Spears does in her live performances at the awards, that's Janet Jackson 10-15 years ago.

RECOGNIZE: to you its a fad, to us its therapy for the ills your world are causing to us.

AND HOW ARE YOU GUILTY IN ALL THIS? You are not, but I am tired of white people who like to imitate everything black artists produce, love black athletes to death, bump rap in their car, but hate an average black kid they see in the street.You love Jay Z,Nas,DMX,Meth,Red, but you're suspicious of an average kid on the street who looks,dresses,talks like those artists.Jay Z is cool dressed like that, but the kid on the street looks like he is up to no good. Appreciate all of us, not just the one who make the music, then i'll be cool with white kids who are down with the hip-hop culture.

The saddest thing about all this is that all these commercial rappers are helping white America with the take over. They dont
realize right now.The most important thing about history is not dates and all that hard staff, its recognizing trends so you guard against them repeating themselves. Wht do you think every time the Dow Jones has a little problem all economists start to refer to the 1929 market crash. They studied that crash so hard it will never repeat itself. We are the only people who dont learn, as a result we are the only people another race can be shady to (with so much ease) in the 50s,the 60s,the 70s,the 80s,90s and the 00s.
Thse commercial rappers would rather sell 3 million NOW and hand rap over to white people by making commercial s*&#t, THAN preserve the art by coming real all the time. When you come real in your music, you sell 1 million, but at least we will own hip hop long enough for our kids to sell 2 mill and our grandkids to sell 3 million.
My shhh is too long, I'll share more later.

and a lot of the caucasion kids who emulate black people ARE emulating a stereotype. Not every black person I know wears baggy jeans. In fact, I know a LOT of people who think it looks sloppy. I also know an amazing amount of black people who do not adhere to using slang to express themselves. Each individual person has their own style - so if you are emulating a 'color' you're stereotyping.
I don't know where ya been - but being 'down' has been 'popular' ever since 86' or so - bout the time the Beastie Boys came out. Gave lotsa white boys a reason to think that Hip Hop owed them something because they adopted a certain style of dressing.
There are a lot more pale folks who have learned about the culture of Hip Hop, realizing that it's much bigger than the music or acting like a rap star (who's probably putting on an act themselves).... but the people who have taken time to learn and respect the culture are few and far between. You still have lotsa white kids who think that because they learn some slang they are 'down'.
Just take each person for what they stand for. Get to know them. Stereotypes are ugly - from either side.

Dove
~Sheepish Lordess of Chaos~


lions sing and the hills take flight
the moon by day, and the sun by night
blind woman, deaf man, jackdaw fool
let the lord(-ess) of chaos rule.. - robert jordan

*thank you AH!*

"If I'm not feelin ya, playa - my face is gonna show it" - GURU

http://UrbLife.com
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My question is just that why can't everybody just be "down" with everybody? I don't think that Hip-Hop owes me anything, I just enjoy the culture. I don't stereotype, and I'd much rather listen to The Roots and Talib Kweli than Ja Rule or DMX. But why does the separation exist between the music and those who enjoy it? White folks need to stop pretending that they're Black because they know a few songs and slang words, PLUS Black folks need to stop trying to filter out everyone but themselves from the culture. Why can't it just be a culture for all? And if it were, obviously it would have the same guidelines as most other cultures in that the people must RESPECT it to be involved with it. These are just my feelings about the issue, so feel free to oppose me if your feelings go down other avenues, ya know? Peace, Love, and SOUL!!!
-B

sigs:
------------------------------
"It's deep soul, deep church, spiritual roots and deep jazz... I just go as far as I can inside and I bring it out. The thing the church showed me was conviction. DMX rhymes with conviction. Soul is honesty." Bilal, on his music.

"Bilal WILL be an Okayartist!!" -me

Bilal has been on:
*Common's LWFC
*The Love & Basketball Soundtrack
*Guru's Jazzmatazz III: Street Soul
Coming in February: The Album!!!!
If you haven't yet, check him out!!!

"to aim
is to take oneself too seriously
by focusing without instead of within

re arrange and re member

aim...i am

the right letters are there
it's the wrong composition"
-Saul Williams

I don't mean to sound reductionist, but, man, that is what everyone is talking about. All of this "Universal Love" stuff is bullshit. Whenever Black people try to buy into that, we always end up one of two thing -- if not both: dead or subjugated.

I am _glad_ we are filtering out everything that is not in and of our culture because the longer we allow European/white values to dictate who we are, the more we _HELP_ our oppression.

So, you can listen to hip-hop all you want. You can get all offended because you are white and we are like, "Um, what does he think he's doing?" But see, as long as you are acting like that, you are just another white boy who thinks we are cool, but when push comes to shove, you will display that European cultural push which says that you have every right to be in our shit -- just because you are you.

If I am coming off offended, it's because I am. I am not going to sit here and act as if you are all cool and down because you want everyone to just get along. Why should people of African descent, hell, anyone of non-European descent give into that bull*beep*? We need to be able to define ourselves again, find ourselves again, remember who we are, and be able to determine that without being told by someone who is outside of our culture that you are miffed because we don't need your input.

See, the thing about our music is that it reflects something that you wouldn't be able to understand. It isn't about the clothes, it isn't about the "look", it is about an approach to art that is in direct opposition to that of white people where it is all about the individual. Art for African people is communal. It is about getting everyone involved -- not simply in the end product, but in the making of the moment itself. This is something that has its roots in our upbringing which has its roots in the Motherland.

So, before you get yourself in here talking about that which you don't understand, telling us that we are wrong to talk about white people who are _in_ our art form -- chill and just listen. If you feel bad or offended, good. It isn't _meant_ for you anyway, but if you like it, cool, and if you are sincere about your "interest" in the "cultural other" then that should manifest itself as being quiet about things you can know nothing about... since the experience is something that goes beyond and outside your sphere of cultural understanding.

*snaps*

Cue

____________


"When the revolution comes, "faggots" won't be so funny." - The Last Poets

** Most people mis-read this line. I don't think he is being homophobic. I think he's making sure you folks know, within our communities, those of you who laugh at

Excellent post.

I must disagree with what some one said earlier (dove I believe, but I aplogize if I'm incorrect). White folks fascination with black folks culture goes back muncjh longer than '86. I think that it started the moment they brought us to this "brave new world". Remeber how much we've read about "massa" and "ma'am" dipping into the slave quarters.
So vuduchild, while I don't hate you, I don't trust you all that much either.

rob

Rob's top 10 things that suck list:

10. Wack ass co-wokers
9. Country Grammer
8. Lil Kim
7. The homeless problem
6. Police Brutality
5. My spelling
4. Steve Harvey on the "Beat"
3. 'Zo being out for the season
2. The New TV season
1. Your mom

my point about 1986 was that it was the time when more white people began emulating black people with regard to Hip Hop specifically.
I do know and regard the deeper historical issues you're talking about.
Dove
~Sheepish Lordess of Chaos~

http://UrbLife.com
http://twitter.com/FlyLikeDove
http://instagram.com/FlyLikeDove
http://Facebook.com/FlyLikeDove
http://flylikedove.contently.com

and be even more clear, since people don't tend to read all the replies -

I mean they emulate their perception of it.
I believe I said all that in my first reply though.

Dove
~Sheepish Lordess of Chaos~

http://UrbLife.com
http://twitter.com/FlyLikeDove
http://instagram.com/FlyLikeDove
http://Facebook.com/FlyLikeDove
http://flylikedove.contently.com

Cued,

that borders on being mean, man...
what happened to love thy nieghbor
what happened to the dreams of the sixties
and ...what do you want your kids to believe in?

twice I've read your posts and they've both been negative on views that had substance, from any stand point----

Does bitterness reflect eternal?
PEACE
KC

VUDU, you are saying beautiful words and espousing nobel ideals
but the fact of the matter is that its not like that and no, everybody CANT just get along. You have to understand how we feel when we turn on MTV and see OUR culture being imitated and bastardized(Aaron Carter, WTF!). If it happened to rock and roll it can happen to hip-hop. Rock, jazz, blues, hip-hop.... hell virtualy every form of music originated in America has its roots in another culture. Vudu, its the equivalent to the days of slavery when a "mammy" would give birth to a beautiful black male, raise him and then watch him get sold off.

Its sad.....

OOOOOhh, Diskotek, you put it down. That's insightful.

If you have a little time, check my insight (Brooklax,Nov21,response to UnOrthodox)

Our cultue is what we DO, not who we ARE... implying that someone is "acting black is offensive... so eminem is emulating ALL black people by his mysogynist ignorant statements? i think not! is the smart kid who wears dockers "acting" white? that is just a silly, racist statement, no matter who is saying it...

SOME black people love hip hop.... SOME lations eats tacos and speak spanish... SOME white people are racist and SOME love hip hop... we gotta stop putting ourselves in these boxes!

we are not putting ourselves in boxes, we got issues to handle. If we were putting ourselves in boxes, wouldnt we be at a street corner somewhere, getting ready to get high,or chilling watching Ricky Lake, just like BOX-IZM says black folk do? In stead we are here in fronf of a computer trying to speak about a wide variety of issues, something that we should do because if somebody before me (our fathers in the 60s) had not spoken about issues, I might not have been able to go to school and understand that "mysogynist" word you're dropping. Thanks to them and others in the past centuries for never walking away from what they felt they wanted to talk about.

Today we are just proud of ourselves for having jobs,good education and all that staff, but we forgot someone got killed in a riot just so we can do those things. Word of advice, when you learn history, concentrate on the human trends that history teaches you, not the dates. For example, have you noticed that almost all priviledges we have today, almost none were relinquished by white people voluntarily? They are not ready to relinquish the ones we dont have today either so lets keep talking about these issues.

YES more white people are trying 2 act like what they think is "black"..I work @ a mall right outside the burbs, and just by observing peeps day in and day out, there is no question in my mind that rap and hip hop is just a fad 2 these people...all these white boys sporten mecca, FUBU, rockawear etc etc..., wearen they hats 2 the back or pullen up in the parking lot with they systems on bump playen NELLY or whatever is HOT for now...i mean they just look @ BET or MTV or listen 2 the radio and copy and paste....i told this white boy @ work that i dont listen 2 nelly of triple six or none of that shit and he dayum near had a heart attack "whoa duuude u dont listen 2 nelly!!! man u dont like anything!!" i tell them i listen 2 hip hop and here they are.."whats the difference??"..its all a fad...in about 5 years techno will be the hot shyyt and your average white person wont be buying rap like they are now....

---------------------------------------------------------------------

"ALL YALL/ fuck boys/tuck toys inside ya pants/just 2 take it out/point it at the ground and/make a nigga wanna dance/now what they be fa'/ya on that refa'/and on that 2pac/in front of them oowaps/tryen 2 show out/thats the hoe route/talken loud/talken bout/thats gangsta shit"-andre 3000

"i met a critic once/i made her shit her drawz/she said she thought hip hop was only guns and alcohol/i said on hell naw/but yet its that too/u cant discrimihate cuz u dont read a book or 2" andre 3000

"these are the times that try a nigga soul population control we waisten time chasen gold they after more than your mind they want your nation as a whole its time 2 take off the blindfold"-Dead Prez

Last night I went to this wicked drum performance.This guy makes all his own percussion instruments--which includes pieces that I would describe as " sound sculptures".You walked into the studio space and you are surrounded by interactive art--encouraged to become part of the performance. They played sitar--a variety of stringed instruments, even using industrial tubing to create eery sound effects.

Tonight I might go to a hip show

Tomorrow I might check out some Reggae

Then on Tuesday, maybe some good old one-two-fuck-you punk rock.

My point is--very few of us exist in a limited cultural environment.We are exposed to all sorts of influences--some good, others not.
I would venture the guys in the mall represent a portion of humanity that has not made good use of their exposure to culture.
These people exist everywhere--and come in EVERY skin colour.(I mean they are hanging out at the mall fer cryin out loud.The soul sucking hell of modern man!).If ya wanna get picky I would venture alot of the current hip hop fashion styles came from what a lot of "white" skaters were wearing in the eighties....who cares really?

We really are a global village--and it doesn't have to be about "stealing", but more about sharing, respecting and celebrating!!!

If people are going to merely follow the latest trend--well I think they lack vision and character--and are not worth my energy.

Shimmy

“Your body is not a temple, it’s an amusement park. Enjoy the ride.” Anthony Bourdain

My long lost sister???????

JUSTICE
S.P.A.S. member and lover of:
http://www.recordkingdom.com
http://www.neckexersize.com
=============================
"Take my name off you sig right now"-Kash2099
Jumpin on the Banwagon: San Diego Player Shouts!
MikeCzech UNITE tashiko michealo Framamind lolatin 33andathird

++++++++++++++++++++++++
myspace.com/sonnyphono
dlxsf.com

Shimmy - you're my girl - but I don't think you're seeing the point the original poster was getting at.
I believe they are asking if the emulation of 'black' people by white kids is perpetuating negative stereotypes about black people.
I know you are a very open minded person, and you did make a good point about the mall rats.
I disagree with your theory about the fashion though. Headz dress a LOT better than skate boys (*snicker at Justice*)

Dove
~Sheepish Lordess of Chaos~

PS: You know I lub you Justice!!

http://UrbLife.com
http://twitter.com/FlyLikeDove
http://instagram.com/FlyLikeDove
http://Facebook.com/FlyLikeDove
http://flylikedove.contently.com

I suppose I'd rather have people look at it from a point of "do they GET it, or not?"

Do they honestly love the music?Do they respect the cultural background of the art?

I don't think this can be determined by skin colour.

I mean we are talking not only about Black culture--but Pop culture.We are bombarded every day thru all different types of media with these images.I'd guess there are plenty of black people out there who are justed as hooked on Nelly as the mall geek.These people will always exist---much to the frustration of those that do GET IT!!

***Dove I was in Seatown last weekend--crazy night at the Bohemian.That club has got some serious testosterone going on!!I was scurrrrred!ha!

Shimmy(Justice's long lost sister)

“Your body is not a temple, it’s an amusement park. Enjoy the ride.” Anthony Bourdain

Another point to make is that hip-hop among white people is mostly regulated to suburban kids who are bucking against their society anyway.

The thing is... they can _afford_ to wear baggy clothes and dress in a manner in which white culture deems "devalued" or inappropriate... because they can just take that stuff off and voila! they are "valued", accepted back into the culture and that silly teenage stuff they were doing? all forgotten.

When I went to a UIR (Undoing Institutionalized Racism) training, the trainer made a wonderful point about how white people can dye their hair pink, wear torn clothes (dress in hip-hop styles) however, in order to "get ahead", in order to "reap the benefits of white skin privilege, all they need to do is take that off... Well, people of color don't have that privilege (not to say that there aren't those who think they do *smirk*) because we will always be -not white- -not valued (by them)-... get what I am saying? Do you feel me???

Q

____________


"When the revolution comes, "faggots" won't be so funny." - The Last Poets

** Most people mis-read this line. I don't think he is being homophobic. I think he's making sure you folks know, within our communities, those of you who laugh at

I feel you on that one, Q. You made a lot of sense.

I couldn't have said it better had I tried. I think that the focus shouldn't even necessarily be how whites make the so called black culture look derogatory because there are enough numbskulls of color already doing a well enough job. I sat and watched in disgust, a taping of the MTV awards and cringed as Nelly paraded his ignorant ass across the stage with his pants hanging off of his waste. Now I sat and said, with the help of the media making Afrikans look like complete nincompoops (sic), why would he go out of his way to make himself and us (because this man of color in the so called limelight is in the position to represent all of us as a culture) look like a clown. Now maybe behaving like an incompetent shmoe is the shit in some areas of the country but in Philly (because I can't speak for anywhere else) it is called misrepresenting yourself and as Saul Williams says wasting the power you possess to persuade in a positive manner. Now my nephew is watching the crud that is played on MTV (Mind-wasting Television) and BET (Buffoon Entertainment Television) and had I not been working overtime trying to guide him in the right direction he might look at that and be like, "I'd like to be a famous person someday. I guess I have to parade around like Lil' Wayne or Nelly does in a klownsoot in order to sell records." I see shorties immitate the stereotypical images they see all of the time. Question. Are there white people responsible for supporting these images as well? Hell yeah. I can't count on two hands the amount of non-black people I know who think they are more accepted by blacks when they talk "black" or dress "black" or walk "black", etc. For example, the person who addresses my mom as "girlfriend" to gain acceptance. Come on, be serious. Does that say anything for everybody as a group? No it doesn't. Nonetheless it does happen. Nor do I believe that everyone in the Afrikan Diaspora will all speak intelligently and listen to "conscious" music. But it would be dope if those who did perform and listen to such music would encourage others to do so as well. Maybe then we could take a step toward changing the images on MTV and BET and in magazines that trendy people will continue to immulate. I need to go and do what I get paid to do. Peace, Power, and Life

-espeynomortalmancantestme.ivc

"I throw a molotof coctail at the precinct. You know how we think. Organize the hood under I-Ching banners. Red, black, & Green instead of gang bandanas. FBI be spyin' on us through the radio antennas." -DPz (Damn! Let's get liberated y'all!)


"The same hypocrites screaming 'pro life and marriages' are using religion to justify their savageness. How bad is this? You and The Creator need a mediator. Your priest is human. Your relationship with God is greater..."-Talib Kweli

Yup. What youre talkin about is called the "racial uniform". And none of us can take that off.

peaceloveandharmony

"Everything you want, work on it now not tomorrow." Zion I

Shimmy - you're my girl - but I don't think you're seeing the point the original poster was getting at.
I believe they are asking if the emulation of 'black' people by white kids is perpetuating negative stereotypes about black people.
I know you are a very open minded person, and you did make a good point about the mall rats.
I disagree with your theory about the fashion though. Headz dress a LOT better than skate boys (*snicker at Justice*)

Dove
~Sheepish Lordess of Chaos~

PS: You know I lub you Justice!!

http://UrbLife.com
http://twitter.com/FlyLikeDove
http://instagram.com/FlyLikeDove
http://Facebook.com/FlyLikeDove
http://flylikedove.contently.com

I need a stylist

JUSTICE
S.P.A.S. member and lover of:
http://www.recordkingdom.com
http://www.neckexersize.com
=============================
"Take my name off you sig right now"-Kash2099
Jumpin on the Banwagon: San Diego Player Shouts!
MikeCzech UNITE tashiko michealo Framamind lolatin 33andathird

++++++++++++++++++++++++
myspace.com/sonnyphono
dlxsf.com

Very well said! That's what i'm talking about! I couldn't have said it better!

Peace, not a freak
Ailyha

"Everybody's got issues, every-stinkin'-body"

"Boy, you look like steamy hot chocolate poured out on a milky sunrise- Unknown female "Mack"

"I don't know why I love you so much, I don't know...(sound of distress)..." some Stevie Wonder-ish

My Blog. Swing Phi Swing
http://swingbigphi.blogspot.com

My Mommy Blog. The Bourgie Baby
http://bourgiebaby.blogspot.com

"I bitch! Yooouuu Mooooaaaan....So I try another tactic..." --Jill Scott

then what do we do about the people who are running it and using the village for its own needs.


Please, man... I really can't hear much more of this "universal" love thang stuff because that is a lie. And the longer people of non-European descent hang onto that, the longer we help ourselves be oppressed.

____________


"When the revolution comes, "faggots" won't be so funny." - The Last Poets

** Most people mis-read this line. I don't think he is being homophobic. I think he's making sure you folks know, within our communities, those of you who laugh at

Cued--you have made some very good points. thanks.

This is a piece written by Ben Okri which is moving in the direction of how I see it....

It would seem that the oppressor is the challenge of the oppressed. It would seem that the oppressed have to accept the standards of their age, have to meet them, and raise them higher, add their genius to the universal dream. It would appear that they have to compete in this world, but not necessarily on the sullied terms of the world dominators. They have to fight for their places in the modern proscenium. They can no longer, it would seem, hold themselves down with rage about their historical past of their intolerable present. But they have to find the humility and the silence to transcend their rage, distill it into the highest creativity and use it to reveal greater truths.
Ben Okri

I think I need to go live on a mountain somewhere-- create a place where people can really reach their potential--where every day we all sit around listening to music, discussing literature and sipping cocktails......

Shimmy

“Your body is not a temple, it’s an amusement park. Enjoy the ride.” Anthony Bourdain

I hear you... and feel you... and "get" you... There was a time, when I was about 11/12 when I was just disgusted with everything and wanted to go to a desert and not be apart of any of "it". Now that I am older, I realized that I wanted to save my soul and not have it sullied...

However, as sullied as it has become, I realize that the only way to fight our oppressors is to be out there in it. To live within the stank waters and try to purify, first yourself, then those around you. Touch enough lives, spread the message, and maybe a revolution. Until then, I am prepared to fight the good fight -- even if it means biting my tongue instead of telling my "fulled to the brim with superiority" boss where he can stick his S---!

Opps

did I let that one get away?

*grins*

Q

____________


"When the revolution comes, "faggots" won't be so funny." - The Last Poets

** Most people mis-read this line. I don't think he is being homophobic. I think he's making sure you folks know, within our communities, those of you who laugh at

If ya want to talk about being in the thick of the stanky waters...I work for the government!!!
But I consider myself a plant. From inside I can mess with policy, and argue for budget dollars for programs I want etc...
If you know how to manipulate effectively, you can actually accomplish a lot--or at least get away with a lot and cover your tracks.heheheheee

And realistically I am not heading for the mountain anytime soon--I know I'd get bored up there...

Shimmy

“Your body is not a temple, it’s an amusement park. Enjoy the ride.” Anthony Bourdain

You rule sista. *smiles*

You know, I like the plant image better -- concrete image.

I don't work in the government, but all signs point to a life in the academic world where I am bringing all of this rather edgey energy... and hope to teach my students this as well... and get money to write about it as I do.

See, I am concerned with all this stuff because it is becoming clear to me how easy it is to lose your soul... or, at the very least, allow it to get covered in all that stankness.

Tracy Chapman said it in one of her edgy, early albums: "Don't ever give or sell your soul away cuz all that you have is your soul.

Fight the good fight, Sista...

Q

____________


"When the revolution comes, "faggots" won't be so funny." - The Last Poets

** Most people mis-read this line. I don't think he is being homophobic. I think he's making sure you folks know, within our communities, those of you who laugh at

Perfect!
Couldn't agree more....I am at a point in my life where I've never felt more energized about potential.Which is odd--cos most of my cohort is experiencing burn out.
I like the idea of approaching it from the perspective of influencing one mind at a time...it makes it manageable and real.
As a teacher, you have a wonderful opportunity to effect real change, and that is its own reward.

Soul is what its all about......

Shimmy

“Your body is not a temple, it’s an amusement park. Enjoy the ride.” Anthony Bourdain

I agree that many white people look to MTV/BET for what to listen to to make them seem "down". However there are masses of black folks that do the same. Most of the people, regardless of race, listening to and buying into the hip-hop culture are doing so because it is what's in at the moment. However, the color of the people listening to hip-hop or trying to represent it are not the problem with hip-hop. The real problem is the people who are using hip-hop culture to make huge amounts of money. The problem is the artists that make music hoping to be the next fad. I know someone has already said this but the color of the person is not what matters. What really matters is their "true" motives. I am a white person who listens to hip-hop for the sole reason that in my opinion, hip-hop at it's best is the most creative and expressive form of music, hands down. By "at it's best" I mean when an artist makes the music because THEY like it and if it sells great, but if not they keep putting out music for themselves and the people who enjoy it. Good example of this is the whole Living Legends camp. Their music is incredible, it is not even close to gold or platinum. Yet they continue to release material that follows their same formula and avoid changing their music to attain commercial success. I will continue to support hip-hop as long as there are artists like this putting it out.

>I agree that many white people
>look to MTV/BET for what
>to listen to to make
>them seem "down". However
>there are masses of black
>folks that do the same.

The fact black people do it too doesn't make it okay.

> Most of the people,
>regardless of race, listening to
>and buying into the hip-hop
>culture are doing so because
>it is what's in at
>the moment.

That's human nature.

>However, the
>color of the people listening
>to hip-hop or trying to
>represent it are not the
>problem with hip-hop. The
>real problem is the people
>who are using hip-hop culture
>to make huge amounts of
>money. The problem is
>the artists that make music
>hoping to be the next
>fad.

I'm not labelling you or anything, but this is such a typical backpacker rebuttal. First, let me define backpacker for you. I define a backpacker as the person with the superiority complex about hip hop. His or her mindstate is "my hiphop is better than yours"...and for the record, there are backpackers in all types of rap. The backpacker is the person at a show who screams out in the middle of a set "yo, put me on the mic! I love this hip hop shit! I'm real hip hop! fuck that commercial bullshit!", and also the guys who are trying to cipher in front of the stage speaking a bunch of nonsense language that would only win them a scrabble game and not a freestyle battle. A backpacker can be anyone who doesn't acknowledge the entire culture, and tries to separate one from another. Backpackers are the reason Biggie and Pac were killed. Now...why did I come with such a bold statement? Because it's true. Don't blame their murders on eachother, or whoever pulled the trigger....blame it on the fact that in EVERY type of rap there are those who fight for separation...and think that hip hop is this or that, and this is good and not that. If nobody was a part of hip-hop, then there wouldn't be hip-hop...even if the music remained...because just like Mos Def said..."we are hip-hop". It's about the people, we are the culture.

I'll slap the next person that tells me hip-hop was never about making money, or having fame. What's wrong with making money? Now, if they choose to misrepresent themselves....then that's their problem. My opinion is that pop rap is modern day slavery. I've noticed how Cash Money reps their "label" to the fullest...even though it's an imprint of Universal and they're basically OWNED by white people who tell them what to do, when to do it, and how to do it.

No matter what, it's still all hip-hop. I'm also sick of hearing about how hip-hop is in such a bad state because of pop rap artists. That is 100% bullshit. I live in Atlanta, and I have NEVER been to a "hip-hop" show in Atlanta that hasn't been sold out. Now they might perform in different size venues, but that's only because there's different amounts of people who appreciate it. Triple Six can sellout the Lakewood Amphitheater...which seats thousands and thousands....and Common can sell out the Tabernacle...which seats a few thousand....and so on and so on...some artists may be making loyal fans, but they're also suffering in the fact that they're not making any new fans. What good is it if they're not trying to change to reach a wider audience? Or are they happy only reaching these many people? Are there ways in which they can improve, NOT decline in talent?

I assume that most people in this board like Talib Kweli...though I'm not sure if they got the message of the hook in his song "Too Late". "Nowadays rap artists, comin half on it, commercial like pop or underground like black markets....where were you the day hip-hop died?" He is being critical of both "types" of rap...artists from each type are trying to maintain the separation because they want to remain a certain way...underground artists don't wanna be commercial....and commercial artists (most of them) were once underground, and don't want to return to that. The day hip-hop died was when people started separating one type from the other. Not when jiggy artists took over.

People need to stop complaining about the so-called good old days of hiphop. Because these people are the reason hiphop is going nowhere (at least in their eyes).

>I know someone
>has already said this but
>the color of the person
>is not what matters.
>What really matters is their
>"true" motives.

Dressing a certain way isn't a motive...usually it's just an adaptation to what you see around you. And no, the color doesn't matter. It's the culture that matters. Are they really participating in it, either as a fan or an artist, or are they just trying to fit in? Do they dress like that all the time, or only when they go to a hip-hop show? Do they care what people think when they go places dressed certain ways to reflect that area? Or do they just dress to fit into whatever area they're in? Are they really representing themselves as individuals?

>I am
>a white person who listens
>to hip-hop for the
>sole reason that in my
>opinion, hip-hop at it's best
>is the most creative and
>expressive form of music, hands
>down. By "at it's
>best" I mean when an
>artist makes the music because
>THEY like it and if
>it sells great, but if
>not they keep putting out
>music for themselves and the
>people who enjoy it.

You have to acknowledge how expensive it is to put out music...in order to keep putting music out, they have to sell...most sell enough to keep making music. Most artists like that remain that way because they fall into the backpacker syndrome. If they're doing it for the love, then that's fine. But if they truly love their craft...then they'd take a look at how they can improve it to get more fans. That's how you make it. Obviously they're not having a huge impact if they haven't blown up yet...maybe they're too generic, too weak, too anything. They perform at small venues, yet that's all they do...if they were really putting love into making great music...I'm sure their audience would grow...but sadly it just remains stagnant. That's their fault and no one else's.

Anyone can make music that is only appreciated by oneself. Keep it mind that it can also suck horribly.

>Good example of this is
>the whole Living Legends camp.
> Their music is incredible,
>it is not even close
>to gold or platinum.
>Yet they continue to release
>material that follows their same
>formula and avoid changing their
>music to attain commercial success.

By what you have typed, I'm thinking that they're not going to amount to anything. If they're not changing their music...then
1) their virtually impossible climb to the top will be slow as fuck
2) they will just fade out as a distant memory
Are they afraid of changing up their routine in order to get a wider audience? Or are they content with making what they make now? Hopefully they can be Gold one day, maybe even Platinum. And hopefully they can actually do something to get themselves to that point, otherwise they'll always be underground.

>I will continue to
>support hip-hop as long as
>there are artists like this
>putting it out.

I used to have the mindstate where I only bought underground stuff, and it got to the point where I was convincing myself that I liked it...when in actuality, I was listening to a bunch of bullshit. People need to work on just making good music. What's wrong with changing if it means improvement in yourself? Where would Common be if he kept his "can I borrow a dollar?" style? Probably nowhere...but he came back and literally did resurrect his career...he improved himself and now he is blowing up.

===============

Did I get off the subject or what?

To sum it all up, there's nothing wrong with dressing or acting a certain way if that's really you. Most people do act stereotypical, and there are those who emulate being stereotypical. If they're dressing baggy and talking slang, hopefully it's for the right reasons. Hopefully it reflects who they really are as a person. If they're doing it to follow the crowd or be a part of a culture...then they need to take a look in the mirror and ask themself "who", not "what" they're looking at.

On that note, fuck a backpacker. I listen to everything, and do not discriminate. Good music is still good music...it doesn't matter what genre it's coming from. Backpackers are essentially just taking after the artists they listen to, who are most likely spreading the backpacker philosophy of 'my hip hop is better than yours'.

If you make good music, someone's going to hear it. Don't blame misfortunes on other people. Because then you will have a superiority complex. Backpackers tend to think they're better than everyone else. They're always complaining about the state of hiphop.

If an artists is bitching about how he or she can't make it for so and so reason. Then he or she is basically putting themselves above the people around them. He or she is thinking that they're too good to be in the state that they're in. The bad part is that the person will then explain and lay blame on other things that are out of their control. What's in their control is themselves.

Backpacker: I can't understand how I've worked my ass off and haven't gotten anywhere!
Rational Person: You seem to think that you're better than everyone, like you don't belong here. If that's the case, why are you still here?
Backpacker: Because man, I'm not getting the chance I need, all I need is this and that.
Rational Person: Why don't you have those things?
Backpacker: .........::dumbfounded::

If you're in a position you don't wish to be in (artists or non-artists), ask yourself why you're not in a better position. If any of those reasons involves doing something about it, then why won't you do it? Quit complaining, or else you'll be getting what you deserve.

Peace to everyone that took the time to read this...I've been wanting to vent about hip-hop for a while now...sorry I got off the subject.

........

"If you want to change the world, be that change." - Gandhi

"An eye for an eye leaves everyone blind." - Gandhi

> I believe they are asking if the emulation of 'black' people by white kids is perpetuating negative stereotypes about black people.

In the movie "Meet the Parents" there is a moment between Greg Focker (Stiller) and the white son of DeNiro's character. The son had a poster of Lil Kim on his wall, he had rap playing and was out on the roof smoking weed. Stiller said Lil Kim was phat and tried to explain the punchline on screen by emphasizing the "ph". Then, Stiller had a line about keeping it on the "low down" and the son corrected him, saying "down low" and Stiller replied "No doubt".

Most of the white folks didn't get the joke but a lot of Black people laughed. I wondered if Stiller was making fun of hip-hop heads or fucking with the white folks who try to "act" Black. I think it's the latter and that's why I laughed during the movie.

I do think that whites emulating the slang or ebonics of Blacks is the same as Black people assimilating to fit into WASP culture. The only difference is that Black people are not the power base of this country and we (Black youth) are trying to define ourselves within the oppressive society we live in. Why emulate that? Instead of being down whites often trivialize & generalize Black culture even further by acting like Blacks (being superficial).

"Know thyself"

"There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path"
--Morpheus in "The Matrix"

"It's our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities"- Dumbledore to Harry Potter "Chamber of Secrets"

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

<<I do think that whites emulating the slang or ebonics of Blacks is the same as Black people assimilating to fit into WASP culture. The only difference is that Black people are not the power base of this country and we (Black youth) are trying to define ourselves within the oppressive society we live in.>>


I see the difference differently. See, when whites emulate the "language" of the oppressed class, they can always fall back on being able to speak "standard" English. However, when my family, friends, etc can't rely on that. Therefore, I see it as a stab -- because it only signifies the sharp division between being valued and devalued in our culture.

Not only as Black people not the power base, we are a people who are inmates in a cell called America. We were brought here, then we were told we were free only to then made it be made clear how, although free, we were not equal and the history of the United States has gone into making sure none of us thought we were... even those assimulated Black folks are still niggers in white people's minds -- whether they say it or not -- behavior speaks louder than words.

As for defining ourselves... I am not sure we can. See, in trying to define ourselves, often, it takes us farther from ourselves and who we are. We start to forget those values we were taught at home -- how we were taught to relate to each other and even other people... I know that in my house, my parents forgot to tell me that white people do not think of me as "equal". Hmm... I think this should be another topic... this identity thang of us youngin's. But for the record, I have started defining myself by reaching back instead of trying to reach forward (thinking of time as a line of progress is European thought -- our African ancestors knew that all time was intricately locked -- to know today, you have to remember yesterday ... and out of yesterday lies the hope for tomorrow) -- in reaching back, I have remembered -- not discovered because he was always there -- that boy who left his small town in South Carolina...

Man, in remembering him, I have found a whole chunk of peace.

Q

____________


"When the revolution comes, "faggots" won't be so funny." - The Last Poets

** Most people mis-read this line. I don't think he is being homophobic. I think he's making sure you folks know, within our communities, those of you who laugh at

"living life fully, fiercely, devotedly, makes you much more able to accept other people who are doing the same. all were trying to do is to get from birth to death. and you cant fail. even if you only live five minutes, you have succeeded. and everybodys out there trying to do the same thing. some dont know it, and they think they have to step on your neck to survive. its unfortunate for them. if i ever see someone trying to do that, i try and encourage the person who is standing underneath to move away, so that that ill-infomed person can gain some understanding. and i certainly move away. i am not helping anybody if i allow them to use or abuse me"
-Maya Angelou

thats all

"i only regret not being ablet to confide to you all that i still bear undeveloped within me" -Simone Weil

"If you weren't raised living and breathing within a certain environment, don't EVER claim to truly understand it...This is why every white boy who tries to act black needs a good beating."

- The very white (by his own description) Ron Wells, in his 4 1/2 star review of Bamboozled on filmthreat.com

Just throwing that out there.

RED

Signatures are soooo last millennium.

RED
http://arrena.blogspot.com

What about this? I see it all the time. Why doesn't anyone mention this?

in response to one of the original questions, it's been hip to "be black" for about 10 years now in the city i grew up in of about 350,000.

it's been cool to "be black" in the city i'm in now for about a year and a half, (this is a small college town) which i attribute primarily to the Renaissance Society, an hip-hop/jazz/spoken word artistic movement the has been very active in the area.

The band itself has since broken up, but spin-off projects have spawned a decent amount of urban and hip-hop activity in an otherwise dead-end town of about 20,000



As far as the broad topic, i got in a conversation about "white bustaz" the other day--cats who have a distinct and different presentation of the self when around their melanin-blessed friends.

It's a curios phenomenon, but we all act different for different audiences. We've all been posers about something at one time or another, too.

it's mostly funny and/or annoying because of the socio-political impacts of melanin, ethnicity and race in the US.

otherwise we'd probably just laugh

>As far as the broad topic,
>i got in a conversation
>about "white bustaz" the other
>day--cats who have a distinct
>and different presentation of the
>self when around their melanin-blessed
>friends.
>
>It's a curios phenomenon, but we
>all act different for different
>audiences.

I got in a convo about your last comment a while ago. We were on a completely different subject, but she was saying something to the effect that she is the same person all the time. I countered by saying I recognize that I am different around different people.

While there are plenty of consistencies, the people who only know me at work would trip off how I act with my boys at home, and vice versa. And both of those groups wouldn't understand how I act when I'm wth, say, a writing group. I have friends that I talk to about film, I have my beer drinking friends, I have politcal friends, and I have my hip hop friends. And yes, I have my "white" friends and I have my "black" friends.

To varying degrees, I act differently in each of those groups. Yet, I don't think there is anything false about it. In fact, i think it's natural. The point I made to my friend I was talking to was that I think it is UNnatural to try to act the same in all situations. We all reflect our surroundings and our situations. I think it's not only natural but necessary to be in tune with your situations and to modify your behavior accordingly.

The question becomes one of motivation. Are you doing it to fit it? To make others feel comfortable (sometimes I do this just because I'm an imposing black man and I don't really like intimidating people)? Or are you doing it to fool someone, to make them think you are something other than what you are?

I have a multifaceted personality, and I have many areas of interest. I can play up or down most of them depending on the occasion.

RED

Signatures are soooo last millennium.

RED
http://arrena.blogspot.com

Exactly!
People are pretty complex social animals, they are influenced by media, peers etc.AND like you said, we often will react based on our present social environment.
I would hope that people would assume a role they identify strongly with--but sometimes its the process involved.Thats why youth will often rely heavily on social cues such as dress, slang, and other techniques they see as setting themselves apart from the rest....

I like this..."I have a multifaceted personality, and I have many areas of interest. I can play up or down most of them depending on the occasion."

I am inspired by the best of what I am exposed to....


I yam what I yam (c)Popeye

Shimmy

“Your body is not a temple, it’s an amusement park. Enjoy the ride.” Anthony Bourdain

Much love,
Kyle

Made official by MISS UrbanCowgRRL
Surgeon General... - DPS...drunk posters society...y'all ain't ready!?!? We soldiers...don't be scurrrrrred


"i always tell people that fame is
nothing but a good publicist, while
talent is a genuine article..." ~ Pozi

much love,
Kyle

Detroit..Let's GO!!! May 12th Dilla Walk for Lupus...Belle Isle...

http://walk.lupusresearch.org/goto/blackeyedskeez

Even a Dollar can HELP..


http://www.myspace.com/jedikyle
http://www.detroitderbygirls.com/

I agree REDeye....
We normally tend to react to our immediate environment in terms of the way we relate to people day to day - but that should never affect your core being.
I tend to be pretty mellow day to day but some folks do get me amped up more than others. Some people just make me grouchy.

Dove
~Sheepish Lordess of Chaos~


lions sing and the hills take flight
the moon by day, and the sun by night
blind woman, deaf man, jackdaw fool
let the lord(-ess) of chaos rule.. - robert jordan

*thank you AH!*

"If I'm not feelin ya, playa - my face is gonna show it" - GURU

http://UrbLife.com
http://twitter.com/FlyLikeDove
http://instagram.com/FlyLikeDove
http://Facebook.com/FlyLikeDove
http://flylikedove.contently.com

I stated above:

I do think that whites emulating the slang (dress/style) or ebonics of Blacks is the same as Black people assimilating to fit into WASP culture. The only difference is that Black people are not the power base of this country and we (Black youth) are trying to define ourselves within the oppressive society we live in. Why emulate that? Instead of being down whites often trivialize & generalize Black culture even further by acting like Blacks (being superficial).

Some Black people often assimilate to move up the ladder at the workplace or the attempt to diminish being a threat to the establishment or they think being "black" is limiting. This is a little different from white people trying to be down just to belong. For each race there are different reasons. The trick it to be able to code switch without betraying one's true identity.

"Know thyself"

"There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path"
--Morpheus in "The Matrix"

"It's our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities"- Dumbledore to Harry Potter "Chamber of Secrets"

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

"I can't wait until they start lynching us again,....then we'll really see who's Black!"

There's nothing wrong with having an appreciation for a culture, but it's a whole different thing to be appropriating it.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

haven't whit folks been trying to have us act as they do ?

Witty as can be , but not for sale . RUN DMC

Money is the key to end all your woes/ your ups and downs , your highs and your lows / Won't you tell the last time that love bought your clothes / It's like that and that's the way it is. HUH!!! RUN DMC

>What about this? I see it
>all the time. Why
>doesn't anyone mention this?

Actually there is a difference. And this topic is addressed all the time. "acting" white is usually regulated to those who chose to speak the "Queens" english properly (side note: GOP'ers are always sweating Jesse, about the way he speaks. They claim the can't understand him. Then look at who they elect. WTF!?). Yet we and I'm sure you do to, all know some White kid who thinks it's ok to refer to his "dogs" as his "niggas" cuz he thinks he's "down".

Rob

Rob's top 10 things that suck list:

10. Wack ass co-wokers
9. Country Grammer
8. Lil Kim
7. The homeless problem
6. Police Brutality
5. My spelling
4. Steve Harvey on the "Beat"
3. 'Zo being out for the season
2. The New TV season
1. Your mom

i'm a white kid who grew up mad nice and still is growin up and i dress baggy, not too, but i dress "hip hop" but i don't use slang cause that's not who i am, i grew up in the burbs, i am really just myself like i'll wear whatever i like and is comfortable, but for real i hate a lot of kids who might look like me who bump their nelly and go home and be on some hardcore republican racist shit, this goes on in my school, i'm basically the only kid who likes hip hop but there's other kids, IGNORANT, stupid mother effers who tell racist jokes, say the n word in a malicious fashion and talk about how jails are workin good and how it's dumb black people shoot eachother for nikes(THESE KIDS ARE THE ONES I WANT TO KILL) and they'll hit me up on AIM talkin about how good the new funk flex or drag on is, for real a lot of kids are dumb and ridiculous and piss me off so i don't know how they can't piss black people off, hit me back up at okaymattd@yahoo.com or here whatever.

Proud member of S.P.A.S.(skinny peeps are sexy) BEeeeeeeATCH!!!!!!

M.W.S. intern, I AM PLATINUM PIMPIN, uh.... check that okayplayer fund y'all, hit me on AIM, okaymattd, peace.

i know we've talked bout this before but i wanna say again, we're in the same situation. But the thing is, all the people u hate aren't really into hiphop, they're into commercialism. funk flex, dmx, dragon, jayz, cash money, etc. isn't true hiphop in my view. it angers me 2 that these people can be so hypocritical at times, but i just kinda put that outta my mind. so when they're all like, "man, i love that new jay-z shit!" i just say to them, "okay, player."

dro
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
ppl be askin me all the time "yo mos what's gonna happen with hip-hop?" I tell them you know what's gonna happen with hip-hop? what's ever happenin with us. -Mos Def

where hip-hop is goin in '01? back to what's real baby. no more bling-blingin. Move over cash money and jigga. It's oukast's, J5's, common, talib kweli's, mos def's, and the roots (among others) time to shine.- me

Nowadays rap artists coming halfhearted,
Commercial like pop or underground like black markets. Where were you the day hip-hop died? Is it too early to mourn? Is it too late to ride?- Talib kweli

aim: okayplayerDROots

NOVA/MD/DC OKAYPLAYERSITE COMING SOON...
(or whenever my lazy ass gets 'round 2 it)

I've had conversations about this issue before, and it can get really complex and dificult when you get into it. But what you have to remember is that you can never lump people into categories.
- just because you are white and are involved in hip hop culture it doesn't mean you are acting black, it means you are trying to be a part of hip hop
- hip hop does not mean black, and black does not mean hip hop
- not all black kids know a lot about the culture, and not all white kids simply follow trends....there are many white kids that respect it, many black kids that don't, and vice versa.

You can't generalize about anything basically. I've been called a wigger, etc. before. But i've never really tried to be "black." there isn't even an exact definiton of what is black is there? I have however been a part of hip hop culture for a long time. Every chance I get to learn about it and expand on it, and become more apart of it, i do so. I completely respect it, and will not switch to the next new fad when it comes around. I have been around since before it became the cool thing to do across america, and I will be around afterwards.

---------------------------------------
"Laughing at some fucked up shit on a path to enlightenment" - Huggy Bear

"When the world gets too crazy, hip hop helps me escape it" - Last Emperor

"I met a critic, I made her shit her draws. She said she thought hip hop was only guns and alcohol. I said Oh Hell Naw, but yet it's that too." - Andre

The thing that makes people like me look bad is taht there are white people that do it just because it is the trend. Two years ago most of these kids weren't into hip hop. What happened?

Take the example of the movie "White Boyz" by Danny Hoch. I thought this movie was excellent, because it showed how these kids ,that live in a place that has no hip hop influence, think they are "down" or whatever. They think to be "black" means to be a gangster and a drug dealer, and they try to use a bunch of slang. But a couple of the kids end up being racist and not even liking hip hop or rap music, and were just doing it to be cool. It's a real interesting movie, and it's sad that there are people like this.
---------------------------------------
"Laughing at some fucked up shit on a path to enlightenment" - Huggy Bear

"When the world gets too crazy, hip hop helps me escape it" - Last Emperor

"I met a critic, I made her shit her draws. She said she thought hip hop was only guns and alcohol. I said Oh Hell Naw, but yet it's that too." - Andre

Um... So let me get this straight... Are you saying that hip hop is _not_ a natural art form born out of the cultural core of people who are of African descent?

Hell, even Ginsberg and his cronies would readily admit that listening to jazz is where they _ripped_ off the rhythms of their poetry... but I guess Jazz isn't Black and Black isn't Jazz.

Jesus, kid, somebody sure did a number on you!

____________


"When the revolution comes, "faggots" won't be so funny." - The Last Poets

** Most people mis-read this line. I don't think he is being homophobic. I think he's making sure you folks know, within our communities, those of you who laugh at

I HAVE NO CHOICE IN THE MATTER OF MY NATIONALITY NOR WOULD I WANT ONE ...I DEFINE MY NATIONALITY IT DOES NOT DEFINE ME
THE POINT IS BEING REAL
PEOPLE ARE NOT AS STUPID AS EVERYONE LIKES TO BELIEVE
IF YOU ACT LIKE YOURSELF WHAT EVER THAT MAY BE
PEOPLE SEE THAT AND CAN RESPECT THAT
BUT FAKENESS SEEPS THROUGH, AND THOUGH IT MAY NOT BE THE CASE
WHEN SOMEONE SAYS YOU ARE ACTING BLACK OR WHITE FOR THAT MATTER
THEY ARE SAYING YOU ARE ACTING FAKE OR NOT TRUE TO YOURSELF.
WHICH IS STILL A STUPID STATEMENT TO MAKE BECAUSE YOU ARE GENERALIZING A RACE TO ONE PERSON THAT IS JUST LOST(NOT REALLY RACE WISE BUT SELF ESTEEM, SELFKNOWLEDGE,ETC..).
SO IN GENERAL IT IS NEVER A COMPLIMENT TO SAY SOMEONE IS "ACTING" ANYTHING, BECAUSE TO SAY SOMEONE IS ACTING YOU ARE CALLING THEM FAKE SO WHY EVEN TRY TO COVER IT UP.
SPEAK YOUR MIND
ITS LIKE SOMEONE SAYING YOU ACT GHETTO
WELL IF YOU NOT CALLING ME FAKE
THEN YOU CALLING ME GHETTO
AND IF YOU ARE TELLING ME NOT TO ACT THAT WAY
YOU MUST THINK ITS WRONG
SO ALL THAT JUST TO TELL SOME ONE YOU DONT LIKE WHAT THEY SAY OR DO
SPEAK UP....CLEARLY
SO YOU'LL UNDERSTAND CLEARLY WHEN YOU GET SHUT DOWN
FOR BEING A FOOL (NOT ACTING BUT BEING)

only a bitchass gives a fuck what other people listen to, how they talk, what they wear, who they date or who they fuck. worry about the real issues like racial profiling, police brutality, rockefeller drug laws, george w bush's presidency, 60 million americans with heath care, crime control as industry and the incarceration of non-violent criminals, not about some white kid buying nelly albums and fubu. shit, at least those kids are supporting black businesses, not like you napstered-out suburban-bred psuedo-revolutionaries. losers.


if you don't bring me some muthafuckin' cognac, i'll kill you -- supherb

how do it feel to hold my dick in public, cock-blower? -- prodigy

I cant stand suto intellectuall mofos -- sundasill

Aliah, I find it amusing that you are bent over white people taking on certain cultural characteristics that have been considered to be indicitive of, or originated, by blacks in general. Yes, black culture seems to be trendy right now...I agree....but in the 50's black people were shunned at the least, and lynched at worst, for doing what was percieved as acting white....like having relations with white women and (God forbid) voting....

So instead of complaining...why not be proud? I think it's a good turn of events and I for one embrace it.

Peace to you.

RudeGrrrl,

I would be proud were it not for a couple of things:

1) How is this newfound love of Black people helping to overthrow the chains of oppression that have held African-American AND African, HELL, ALL NON-EUROPEAN PEOPLE?

2) There are more than one way to skin a rabbit. Like rock and roll and jazz, it is only a matter of time before hip hop (yes, I'ma gonna say it) is appropriated by the dominany culture (READ: WHITE) and they are going to tell us that it is there's (look at Eminem who is getting mad famous on the backs of Dr. Dre -- who couldn't understand the roots of what he is doing with our art form if you held him down and _force fed_ it into his pouty mouth! Growing up "hard" ain't the same as growing up "Black" -- never forget that!)

3) Our art forms are an expression of our spiritual selves. Now, our art form is interesting, but are we, the people whose spirits are being displayed through this art form, being seen as interested? In other words, is Tupac's name a household word like Brittany Spears or Christina Aqui-who-cares?

4) I would rather my people be lynched because physical representations of oppression and hatred are easier to recognize and confront than those inflicted against our soul.

So... this is why I can't be proud. Unless these little white boys and girls are learning about us as a people and effectively becoming anti-racist, learning to be resposible for their skin privilege and use it in ways to overthrow the oppression of people of color _WITHIN HIS COMMUNITY_ (not our's because we already know what's going on... no preaching to the choir please!)... then I will continue to regard it was a mix of disgust and annoyance because... they get to play with our stuff and when they get enough, they can go back to the 'burbs and play the game again -- unchanged by the very soulful, spiritual art we are making... because to them... it's all a game... and fun... and hip, even. It isn't real life.

Q

____________


"When the revolution comes, "faggots" won't be so funny." - The Last Poets

** Most people mis-read this line. I don't think he is being homophobic. I think he's making sure you folks know, within our communities, those of you who laugh at

Well said. And I think this is a great topic that has promoted a great conversation that needs to be had. And I respect your answer.

Your'e right. As a white woman, I do not walk in your skin...and I do play with your toys and then get to enjoy the privilages of my whiteness...and that would piss me off if I were you. Seriously......

But, I will say this....I have been an activist for many causes in my day but feminism is the only one I can lay claim to being an expert on....and I find in the hard core feminist movement there is a hesistance to include men on many issues.....including abortion rights because men don't need abortions and therefore should not be included in the struggle...but I tend to differ. Any human right is a human issue...and intrinsictly in need of all humans to take part. So I do believe that the only way to bring any progressive movement to any society is to stay pure to the cause but to also reach out to as many others who will help promote the cause to begin with. Very political of me but also a very pragmatic approach. (hence why I voted for Gore in stead of Nader)

That said......I note your point about the generational issues and I think that is the most important and has the most meaning for me. I have lived long enough to see the civil rights movement (as a child) and lived in the deep south where "black music" was music for blacks. I, on the other hand, am raising two wonderful children who couldn't tell you the difference between black or white music...and that is partly cuz I raise them right and partly because of the trend in the mainstream towards a blend of hip hop, rock, jazz...etc. They like what they like.

I don't think all the M&M clones are anything to get worked over.....they are obnoxious and yes...they will eventually get thier MBAs and become part of the mainstream.......and it's a good thing they arestill too young to vote. But maybe, just maybe, one of them, through taking flack at school for the way they act or dress, will understand the prejudice that occurs and it doesn't hurt to have a middle class white boy supporting the right cause.

Maybe I'm naiive, and it's the best I can be. I can't be you and I can't know what it is to be you.......but I'm trying, and I'm behind you....can you appreciate me for that?

Peace to you

Rudegrrl,

Thank you for responding in such an eloquent manner.

First of all, I would like to say that if you are interested in understanding the ways in which European culture indoctrinate other Europeans and "cultural others" into its system, please find a book called _Yurugu_ by Marimba Ani. It is very hard to get the language down because it is told from an African-centered perspective, one that does not imagine Africans as the victims, but looks at European culture in such a way that if you do not _see_ through European culture, I will be utterly shocked.

The reason why I suggest this to you is because you honestly said that you are doing the best you know how to do. However, even feminism is inculcated with European mindsets as it doesn't seem to recognize that they are talking about _white_ men instead of _all_ men, which is what, through their language, they are getting at... There is a problem with the ideology of "universalizm" -- particularly because it stems from an European cultural set that seeks, through the fake ideology of "universality", to dominate other cultures by making them think it is wrong to fight against what is "just" when it is them who made up what is and isn't, in fact, "just" -- which does not cohere with non-European peoples.

Now, I say this in the nicest way possible, but simply exposing your children to music by different artists is not going to "save" them against developing European, anti-non-European mindsets. Why? Because they are going to go out into a world of white/European people who teach each other (alongside people of color) what it is to be "white." Because of this, all of your best intentions will be thwarted unless you can reach them early and _not_ teach them this "color blind" rhetoric because what it assumes is that everyone is "like white/European" people. (Through a simple deconstruction: Being "color blind" means being "blind" to color... white people are "without color" therefore thinking of people as color blind means thinking of people as being white.) It is better, I think, to teach your young children that there are different cultures out there and that they all should be respected -- not looked upon as "others".

I am not "mad" at the little wiggers. I only think it should be properly understood. Why should I think they are "down" when I know what either is going to or could happen in a year or two? Why should I... congratulate them? So they can, later in life, say how they aren't racist because they listen_ed_ to DMX? I just want my people to stay strong and to see _through_ that bulls***. I don't want them thinking more of these people than they should. And, in the end, if that makes me angry/mad -- then that is certainly what I will be.

See, what I would _like_ to happen is that when people who aren't _of_ (as opposed to from) Black culture start getting in on our stuff that they really _feel_ it instead of just "colonizing" it in the same manner of their ancestors -- who, I'm sure, believed they were innocently just getting free labor. I would like for them to be able to connect our music, our art form, with the people, the culture from which it comes. I want something deeper than using Mommy's money to buy the latest hip-hop fashions and cds and gear. Is that too much to ask? if it is, I'm sorry... because it _has_ to be asked. . .

Q

____________


"When the revolution comes, "faggots" won't be so funny." - The Last Poets

** Most people mis-read this line. I don't think he is being homophobic. I think he's making sure you folks know, within our communities, those of you who laugh at

Q and Rudegrrl--first off, I'm loving this discussion, cos I've been trying to have it for a while!!

Next Q, I'd like to explore this statement you made a little further;
"However, even feminism is inculcated with European mindsets as it doesn't seem to recognize that they are talking about _white_ men instead of _all_ men, "

As a die hard radical feminist, I'm wondering if you can expand on this somewhat? I have problems with any patriarchal culture that demeans women. It has been my experience that these types of systems exist throughout the world and are not simply perpetuated by the white man or European ideals.


Then I wrote a whole bunch of other stuff--but I have to think on it before I post it--so I'll leave it at this...for now...
Ha!

Shimmy

"When you are inspired by some great purpose, some extraordinary project, all your thoughts break their bounds: Your mind transcends limitations, your consciousness expands in every direction and you find yourself in a new, great and wonderful world. Dormant forces, faculties and talents become alive, and you discover yourself to be a greater person by far than you ever dreamed yourself to be.
Patanjali

“Your body is not a temple, it’s an amusement park. Enjoy the ride.” Anthony Bourdain

Ok, what I meant, is that, for all intents and purposes, I believe that "feminist" often forget to say that:

1) they are white
2) they are talking about white culture
3) they are talking about white men

Yes, there is a whole body of feminism out that that stem from women of color, however, I have to wonder, in what ways has that been "infected" by European cultural standards and thought and behavior?

And, _before_ you go off on me, please, if you know of any "womanist" writers/theorist, please, tip me off...

Also, the reason why I call for a distinction is because gender is formed differently in African-American communities and in Africa, so it follows that there should be a body of study that _reflects_ this.

Also, I have issues with the language. It is part of European culture to think of people in terms of either/or constructs, like men/women. I am not saying that Black people (when I say Black, I am referring to Americans of African descent) don't, but our adopting this kind of thought stems from the oppression we have been dealt. I am done with either/or constructs because they never felt right nor "sat" well with me... I feel as if I am talking in circles.

But another point I think I should make is that feminism often doesn't deal with:

1) Blackness
2) Black culture, specifically
3) Black men, specifically

because, we (Black men and white men) are not and cannot be lumped together... why? Because for one, they are exhibiting cultural traditions. For the other, they are 1)adopting those cultural tradition or 2) trying to come up with cultural traditions that reflect the culture from which they come from or 3) being very aware that the cultural traditions from which he comes have been lost to him or 4)... a whole bunch of things... I could go on and on, but that's because, as a Black man, I think about my brothas all the time...

So... that's what I meant...

Q
"Go ahead and bite it; I'm sure you'll be delighted!" - Nina Simone, "Forbidden Fruit"

"Alabama's got me so upset. Tennessee made me lose my rest. And everybody knows about Mississippi GODDAMN!" - Nina Simone (you know the song: sing it!)

"I believe in peace!(Bitch)" - Tori Amos, The Waitress

____________


"When the revolution comes, "faggots" won't be so funny." - The Last Poets

** Most people mis-read this line. I don't think he is being homophobic. I think he's making sure you folks know, within our communities, those of you who laugh at

No Q, thank you for responding so eloquently...and I will give that book a looksee. I have a friend who actually might have it on her shelf I did sound rather patronizing when I said that my children listen to all music...didn't I. Damn, I wished I hadn't done that....it was completely a misspeak for me. My children are NOT "wiggers".....if you weren't referring to them I am sorry.....and I don't think my children try to be anything they aren't. they are both white, blonde, high achievers, intellegent, self confident, creative.....and happen to not give a rat's ass what color package a body comes in.....and those options are white, brown, and everything in between. No matter how intellectually you want to theorise it.....if we work from the beginning, children can grow up non racist. Humans are not born racist......they turn that way, like bad milk. And racism comes from all peoples......so my personal theory of judging a person by what's in their heart still stands true for me.

About the feminists....that's completely wrong. Feminism is based on the oppression of women in every culture...and stretches. All cultures, African, European, Asian, Middle Eastern.....and religeons, are guilty of subjucating women and also for putting them in stereotypical roles that don't apply to modern day...and that is what feminist fight. I'm sure Patricia Ireland gets just as worked up over a red neck asshole in West Virginia calling his wife his "ball and chain" as she would about a black guy in Detroit calling his wife his "bitch". That shit goes on in every culture in the world and I don't care what you say.....feminists fight for all women and against sexism from all men and all cultures.

Finally, where your sepratists theories make sense to me....I have one thing to say.....Even though it is true that America and basically now all of civilization is based on a structure that originated out of western culture.....ie Europe and the Magna Carta.....what would YOU suggest to be a reasonable solution....I mean something that is actually attainable and doable...that would unite us as a nation of people...blending our cultures, respecting one another, working in harmony, and creating a better world for our children? I hear too too much how blacks will never be part of America because America was made by and for Whites....so what do we do? I honestly want everyone to be happy.

Peace...and thanks for the education. Sincerely, I appreciate your effort

Rudegrrl,

a note about feminist: If feminism sought to unite all women, why did Alice Walker and other black feminist break away from white feminist tradition, calling their movement "womanism"?

I am not separtist at all and although every fiber in my body wants to prove to you I am not, I will let that stand. I don't have anything to prove.

However, I do think there are some things you don't understand about European culture -- even as a European/white person. But see, this is part of the "genuis" of European culture, getting people within (and outside of it) to be _blind_ to it.

As for unification, I spent the better part of my young life advocating for just that. But see, I have no time for that anymore. I cannot "teach" or "educate" white folks about their culture because I get this. I get called things which I am not. I get veiled anger an frustration. Sometimes, even, I am called a racist. But where I am in my life right now, I am not concerned with "unity" as much as I am concerned with helping my people. I can't be in two places at one time because when I try, I end up spending more time attending to white people and their stuff instead of dealing with my own people -- who need me more than they do.

As for racism, I agree. No one is "born" racist. However, I would follow this up by saying that I believe that white/European culture leads its members to be racist. To elaborate a little, this is through perceiving people as "others" and setting these "others" up as antagonistic. This can be found in Platonic thought and his tourch bearers who finalized the split between mind/body. Even within the literature/ideology/movement with which you align yourself... why do you think women are angry -- outside of the very concrete reasons? Because in white/European culture, women are devalued. The "valueable" people are male -- and, of course, white. All of the evils committed against women stem from this perception of women being "less than" men.

Q



"Go ahead and bite it; I'm sure you'll be delighted!" - Nina Simone, "Forbidden Fruit"

"Alabama's got me so upset. Tennessee made me lose my rest. And everybody knows about Mississippi GODDAMN!" - Nina Simone (you know the song: sing it!)

"I believe in peace!(Bitch)" - Tori Amos, The Waitress

____________


"When the revolution comes, "faggots" won't be so funny." - The Last Poets

** Most people mis-read this line. I don't think he is being homophobic. I think he's making sure you folks know, within our communities, those of you who laugh at

Once again I'm jumpin in...
Both of you make such wonderful points....

I agree the basic tenets of feminism are to free all woman from oppression. The majority of feminist activity in the 60's and 70's was done by middle class white women--probably cos they were at an economic position in history to get away with being upstarts.

But they do not OWN the concept! As much as black women may have wanted to create their own voice--so have lesbian women, religious women, senior citizens etc. I believe the ideals behind feminism are strong enough to support all interpretations--and its up to the individual to define it! I mean I am not active in Feminist circles simply for the constant need for CONSENSUS-- as an Aries anarchist--that drove me nuts! But I still incorporate the precepts into my daily life.

Personally I have found after years of activism--that NO group can manage to represent my politics! I have evolved into a state where I can appreciate many schools of thought--for many different reasons. I think its a diverse perspective.

It unfortunate Q that you feel frustrated--or that you are met with anger.I certainly don't see that happening here..but rather an attempt have a shared understanding.If you feel that people have assumptions about your position---I can tell you I've felt the same in many cases on this board.

But I still keep coming back--tossing the concepts around in my head. I appreciate your thoughts!

Shimmy






Shimmy

"There's only two things worth talking about in life, and that's sex and death. So let's talk about death."
--William S. Burroughs

“Your body is not a temple, it’s an amusement park. Enjoy the ride.” Anthony Bourdain

Q I like you! And I dig your concept of leaving white people out of the mix and helping your own people. That's cool...it goes with the "think globally/act locally" concept because in helping your people to be strong you are in turn helping the entire world. I really do like that. Thanks for opening my mind.

Here's a question. What if I, as a white woman from a European culture (and believe me, I was born in England), DOESN'T want to help empower whites because they are so dominant. I live in DC and me and my kids and friends have a good laugh at the fact that in the middle of our nations capital stands a big white falice! Can you believe that I truley and honestly feel this way without assuming anything else based on the fact that I'm white?

I have NEVER told my children that other kids of color were "just as good as them". I have NEVER had a thought of taking a public stance or doing activism for the sake of "helping" people of color. On the contrary.....I have told my children that they are the same as every other person in the world...no worse, no better, and they have to show respect to each and every other human being in order to expect respect....plain and simple. I don't think I ever mentioned race or ethnicity in that scenario. And when I do activist work or speak out against injustice....my motivation is the help the world.

So I get myself back to the topic we bagan with......white's acting black. SO WHAT???? Get over it!!!! I know black republicans with volvos and vans and stock options and all the trimmings but it doesn't bother me in the least! This world is there for the taking for anyone and everyone....I say go for it. I got bigger fish to fry!

And as for feminism....you are completely off target...but that's another discussion. You act like Europeans invented subjucation and that's ridiculous. What about the legalized female circumcisions routinely being done, even today, in parts of the Eastern world? What about the killing of female infants in China? PAAAAALEEEEASSEE!!!! I am not African American so I have conceded I can be schooled by you....I am a woman so try to hear me.

Peace~

>
>I have NEVER told my children
>that other kids of color
>were "just as good as
>them". I have NEVER
>had a thought of taking
>a public stance or doing
>activism for the sake of
>"helping" people of color.
>On the contrary.....I have told
>my children that they are
>the same as every other
>person in the world...no worse,
>no better, and they have
>to show respect to each
>and every other human being
>in order to expect respect....plain
>and simple. I don't
>think I ever mentioned race
>or ethnicity in that scenario.

k...you can tell your children all you want that they are just the same as everyone else but you are doing them a disservice by not mentioning race because ethnicity is the base of that statement. You can tell them "everyones just the same" thats just not enough when almost ever other socialtal sign tells them otherwise that sugar coating will not sweeten the pot any. The best way to make sure that your kids understand what part race plays in America you should be straight forward and give them an age appropriate talk about it and keep inforcing. Suga fairy phrases will surely not make your child more enlightened on race then the average white person.

IM OUT LIKE TROUT.
AIM Carmel3494 say ure okp

yep, I'm a honky, but I hate those "wiggers' as much if not more than anyone else. they way I see it, who gives a shit about what you wear. I hate anyone who trys to get attention by dressing weird who is not individual. thats why I hate goths. Their whole schtick is that they don't need to fit in, but they try soooo hard not to. Same with these baggy pants wearing white kids. They think that they are so original because they 'are' hip-hop, but then they go and listen to some commercial rapper that is ONLY liked by white kids anyway.

Not to sound like I'm bragging, but in my high school, I'd bet that only a few kids, maybe five, know more about hip-hop than me yet you'd never know by looking at me. I don't act black or try to unnatually slip in some ebonics. I hate tyo see your typical wiggers in a record store talking some shit about how they "can't wait for that new (fill in name of wack rapper) CD to come out" I feel like they giving real white hip hop fans a bad name.

So to sun all this up, I hate white people who try to forget what they are more than most black people probably do. know what I'm sayin my homie G, yo yo

aight I'm done babbeling

But see... *shakes head* to me, you are being worse than they are.

You don't get it, do you? It isn't about "competition" -- who "knows" the best. Man, that is you just acting white. And I'm sorry for calling you on your shit... ok, not really.

See, you don't get it. It ain't about owning all the hip hop Mama's money can buy. It is about something deeper. It ain't about "slippin'" in the slang as much as it is about knowing _how_ and _when_ to use it... and not trying to "impress" your little friends. It ain't about "knowledge" -- it is about feeling.

Do you feel anything when you listen to hip-hop?
Does it speak to you?

No, really, does it speak to you -- inside?

Welp, the wigger you hate just might be yourself.

*snaps*

Q

____________


"When the revolution comes, "faggots" won't be so funny." - The Last Poets

** Most people mis-read this line. I don't think he is being homophobic. I think he's making sure you folks know, within our communities, those of you who laugh at

>You don't get it, do you?
>It isn't about "competition" --
>who "knows" the best.

My point wasn't that I was bragging about knowing the most. I was merely stating that while all these Limp Bizkit fans in school are all claiming to be "true hip-hop" fans and all wearing Ecko now, I don't feel that its necessary to make my apperence "hip-hop". I just meant that white kids wearing FUBU is bad enough but they could at least know something about the culture. see what I mean?


>It is about something
>deeper. It ain't about "slippin'"
>in the slang as much
>as it is about knowing
>_how_ and _when_ to use
>it... and not trying to
>"impress" your little friends.

That was my point exactly. re-read my post.

>It ain't about "knowledge" -- it
>is about feeling. Do you feel anything when you
>listen to hip-hop? Does it speak to you?

Yes, it does. I live hip hop music. I seriously lay down at night with my head phones on and just listen to it until I fall asleep. Everynight. I'm by myself with no else around; thers no front, I'm not trying to impress anyone. Yes, I hear the messages, yes I "feel" it. Hip-hop has made my cry if thats what you mean. Why do you think I like the artists I do. If I was into it for the beats then wouldn't I just playing some ruff ryders?

>Welp, the wigger you hate just
>might be yourself.
Wiggers try to to be black. I'm just trying to be a hip hop fan without any of the shit that goes along with it when you're white. seriously, not every balck person feels hip-hop so why is it so impossible that a white boy can feel it.

READ THIS QUOTE:
"Thats the difference. While people listen to Jimi, they don't hear him." "Jimi's drummer was white." "What!? Theres no way Jimi's rythm section was white!" -(c)white men can't jump


TotalRequestloveLive

there is no such thing as white kids or black there just kids we have young black youth riding skate boards roller blades bmx bikes and people such as my who is a young black adult i have been skydiving base jumping and bunji jumping since i was 16 yeasr of age but i still listen to the hip hop as well as my dog limp biz plus we have white kids break dancing and various other things that we said were so called black things like i said before there is no such thing as black kids and white there just kids. some of us need to remove that color line. us does not mean all white people blacks are just the same
wileout yall

Um... would you pass that crack pipe, please?

Unless you are white (which I hope you are, I hate to think you're a young brotha or sister talking this nonsense)you can talk about "universality" and "why-can't-we-all-get-along" -- it ain't your ass getting the foot up in it day after fucking day.

Erase the color line? Why do we need to? White people put it there. Unless we can understand what that color line is, hook it up to our lives and our history in this country, we are going to wipe ourselves out faster than the other implemented genocides committed by white folks.

There is Black and there is white, "dude." And guess what? _We didn't make that up!_ People of color do not have the history white/European folks do of spliting everything up into antagonistic dichotomies -- white poeple do -- going all the way back to dear old Pappy of European thought, Plato. So, don't crap on our doorsteps because we are using the terminology your culture came up with.

*sighs*

Q

____________


"When the revolution comes, "faggots" won't be so funny." - The Last Poets

** Most people mis-read this line. I don't think he is being homophobic. I think he's making sure you folks know, within our communities, those of you who laugh at

It seems to me that when 'white' people are emulating the style of "HipHop", they are doing something that has always been going on, by people of all races.

Kids have always looked up to their favorite rock stars. They think that they are cool, and they tend to dress in such a way that the rock star has made fashionable. They might even adopt some of their slang.

But, now that the rock star is Black, people are freaking out.

Years ago, after the Beatles came out, a lot of kids started growing their hair long. Does that mean that they weren't being true to one's culture? No, I don't think so.

We have finally gotten to a point where Black music is loved by all types of people, so it is only natural that kids will try to emulate what they see these modern day "rock stars" doing. This has always gone on, but now that it is crossing racial boundaries, everyone is screaming "culture stealer", etc.

I know a lot of Black kids who try really hard to act like DMX. Does them being Black somehow mean that they are not being just as fake as a white kid who tries to act like D? I do not think that their is any difference.

People want to see white people wearing fucking penny loafers and Brooks Brothers ties. Does this somehow represent white culutre? I do not think so.

We should give these kids who wear baggy pants and listen to Hip Hop a break. If you saw a kid dressing and acting like a white musician, you wouldnt think twice. However, since they are forward thinking enough to understand that they can listen to music that is preformed by Black people. They are just doing what kids of all colors have been doing for decades.


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VISIT: http://the.breaks.tripod.com

My shit...

Jay-Z & Scarface- "This Can't Be Life"
Baby VOX-"Bae Shin"
De La Soul w/ Chaka Kahn-All Good?
Tashannie- Parallel Prophecys
Stankonia
RE-"Africa Dream"
Massive Attack- "Exchange"
Sizzla- "Pressure"
CNN-The War Report
CNN-"You Dont Wanna Fuck With Us"
Sticky Fingaz- "If I was White"

...More 2 come...

"I'm like the Holy Qu'ran wrapped in a Penthouse magazine cover"
-Rass Kass

"And No, I dont wanna see your thong, I kinda dig them old school kind of drawers."
-Andre 3000

"Oh, You Gangsta?? Then Shoot Me."
-Prodigy

"If You Can talk you can sing, If you can walk you can dance..."
-Kweli

email me: brendan@brendo.tv

Response to BeeFred.Notice that when you talk about rock, first thing in mind is the Beetles, not some black artist. I think the big thing here is that, yeah, black people should freak out because historic trend has shown that y'all are ruthless when it comes to other people's staff. So many times you have taken black art form and totally excluded black people. You dont join in and have fun, white people wanna take over and exclude the originator.(its not me saying that, its history. Second thought, so what if i said it? You scared of the truth.I have always said that the realest white person is the one that looks the real truth in the eye and say, "true we have done some shhhh to black folks in the past,i can understand why they might feel some of the things they feel"
No one remembers a single black artist that won grammies for rock and jazz, and after this year, no black person will ever win a grammy for best rap album.Note, the take over began this year with M'n'M winning the grammy.
MAtter of fact for the past few years the grammy pannel has shown that it probably chooses the best rap album of the year by watching who was a favorite with the white kids! Somebody wanna to tell me otherwise!? No matter how tight they rhyme, underground cats will never win rap album of the year!!

Off on a tangent, a quote for my America-African peeps that i found interesting: Why do some black folks think they are better than other black folks, did we already forget we all came in the same boats?

coming from a suburban. teenage, whiteboy, yes it is. I dunno why, but mayb cause it's somthin different then a lot of us have grown up with. i don't want to call it an "escape" from our safe suburban communities, but i think it's also how the media portrays african-americans. U turn on BET, or MTV and see the 5th Jay-Z or Cash Money video in the same hour, and u c them partyin, having a good time wit all these women, and you start to think, "wow. thats what i want 2 be like." so then u go to the mall, and get your fuckin rich parents to buy u all this ecko, wu-wear, johnny blaze, and other shit. And then u think, "boy am i cool now! Wait until all the other wiggers see me at school tomarrow!" but, alas u will never be "cool" because it all comes down to one (mayb unfortunate) thing: color.

dro
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ppl be askin me all the time "yo mos what's gonna happen with hip-hop?" I tell them you know what's gonna happen with hip-hop? what's ever happenin with us. -Mos Def

where hip-hop is goin in '01? back to what's real baby. no more bling-blingin. Move over cash money and jigga. It's oukast's, J5's, common, talib kweli's, mos def's, and the roots (among others) time to shine.- me

Nowadays rap artists coming halfhearted,
Commercial like pop or underground like black markets. Where were you the day hip-hop died? Is it too early to mourn? Is it too late to ride?- Talib kweli

aim: okayplayerDROots

NOVA/MD/DC OKAYPLAYERSITE COMING SOON...
(or whenever my lazy ass gets 'round 2 it)

newbie reporting for duty...

someone said it back there, about how its mostly teenage white suburban males going through a phase, trying to define themselves by rejecting their parents... well maybe they didnt say all that, but i just did. "acting black" is a phase for them, just like it used to be being a skater, or goth, or alternateen. admit im white, but i dont think im try to pretend being anything, i wouldnt know where to start. i would just write it off to teenage stupidity but maybe it shouldnt be written off. but my money says theyll all be raving in a year anyway...

Whites have been acting or trying to "act" black since Blue Suede Shoes. This present situation of white fascinated with Hip_Hop culture is no different than whites being fascinated and inlfuenced by early jazz and bebop era.
Every form or art or genre of culture emerged from Black America has been degraded in its birth form by white america, but as it matures and lil white kids grow up listening to Snoop and Pac, a generation spawns of whites fascinated with the present black pop culture.
So now as you see so called noted white musicians paying homage to cats such as Coltrane up to G. Clinton. You'll see the same in years to come with old white men talking about their rare collection of 2Pac CD's.

- Old is new & new is Old, or so I've been told...

(respond, children, if this catches your ear)


* God created one and only one,
opposite from the moon he
stands as the protical sun (son),
-- Jah Zen --

"Blackness is blackness and whiteness is whiteness
despite this, why we gots to fight between us"

My only problem with kids who "act" are those who do not appreciate that from which they borrow-- and thus turn around and uphold rascism--

But how in fact do we learn to speak, walk, and dress??
From those around us. There are enough of us (white kids) who interact on this board who have grown up in a "black" culture and have lived the contrast their whole lives, who know the difference between "acting" and being your self, but also understand the need for acceptance on level. Is there color here? Yes... do you have to black to appreciate it... I don't... I hope that is a commonnality

As an artist who loves the blues, hip-hop, and rock and roll,
I say this: music is music, let it evolve, let it go, let it be shared. When you finish a work, or begin it, does one say, "this is for only black people, this is for only white people," not a chance... anyone who wants to hear you, as the artist, you inately appreciate.

I have been told I talk too black, I act to black, all that shit

I act like myself, and I have been peppered with alot of diffent cultural values that I hold dear--- so why would I change????

I can't I wont I don't want to
PEACE
KC

My only problem with kids who "act" are those who do not appreciate that from which they borrow-- and thus turn around and uphold rascism--

I respect you for noticing that the only problem black kids have with white kids emitating them is that they have a problem with those same white kids turning around and upholding racism.

But dont either, that white people are for the most part narcicistic in that as soon as white kids learn how to rap and do it as good as black people, black artists will never make another dollar out of rap. White America has shown that they dont
join into the fun, they take over the artform and kick out the originators. Do you remember that black people invented rock and jazz and today a black artists would not win a grammy for that no matter how good they are. And for as long as more MnM's keep coming up, no black artist will win a grammy for best rap album again.
A lot of people on this board who have talked about this topic talk about "lets not fight over this." What fight? No one is fighting, the truth is just the truth, and only people with ill intentions are scared of the truth.
Peace.