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Artful Dodger
Member since Nov 20th 2009
8361 posts
Tue Feb-14-12 01:27 PM

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"Can We Have An Honest & Objective Conversation about Rick James?"
Tue Feb-14-12 01:31 PM by Artful Dodger

          

He was flat mates with Joni Mitchell and Neil Young at the same time?

He and Neil Young had a band together and was trying to get signed to Motown?

He was related to Melvin Franklin of the Temptations?

Standing on the Top is the only record with All 7 Temps?

He brought them back together?

He once had Stevie Wonder in the studio and Stevie was ... as Rick put it... "being Stevie and playing all over the record" and the engineer says "Man, you better stop him or it's gonna be a Stevie Wonder record featuring Rick James" so he leans into the mic and says

"Stevie, stop playing that bullshit. STFU and listen to my guide."

He then says he learned something - now matter how big a star you become you can stil become intimidated by greatness.

(Check Questo's post on working with Al Green for details)

When he won the American Music Awards R&B album of the year (I think it may have been 81) he accepted the award via satellite from his house with his dog "Ganja", pulls out a mini casio - turns on the drums of the casio - and sings his welcome and thank you while playing guitar).

He at some point was homeless in Canada, London, Buffalo, and LA.

Man... his original press photo he rocked his hair like Elvis complete with perm????

He was once booed at the Grammy's for leaning into the mic and saying to Stevie Wonder "Stevie you should see this". People were unware of their fondness for one another.

Often times P is credited with bringing synths to black music - but that simply isn't true - Bernie Worrell should get that credit and Sun Ra before him but... Rick was just as important.

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
no argument here.
Feb 14th 2012
1
Rick James was the Last great Funkateer IMO
Feb 14th 2012
2
Maxx went in - hell yeah.
Feb 14th 2012
3
Yoooooooo,
Feb 15th 2012
8
Terrific post
Feb 16th 2012
52
RE: Rick James was the Last great Funkateer IMO
Feb 17th 2012
85
      he did - but by our standards
Feb 18th 2012
94
           RE: he did - but by our standards
Feb 19th 2012
111
                great post - really nice breakdown
Feb 19th 2012
117
                     RE: great post - really nice breakdown
Feb 19th 2012
123
                          RE: great post - really nice breakdown
Feb 19th 2012
124
no mention of the legendary feud he and the Purple one carried on
Feb 14th 2012
4
Obviously one of my favorites...
Feb 14th 2012
5
Im going back to that album tonight lol!
Feb 14th 2012
6
my comparison to Prince is really just my way of
Feb 15th 2012
9
yeah man well said
Feb 15th 2012
12
      Rick was a Funkster...but he was an R&B guy too..and really
Feb 15th 2012
20
           yeah I totally agree - Throwin Down might have been too black
Feb 15th 2012
21
                the thing about it too brother is that the environment was ripe for Rick
Feb 15th 2012
47
                     ya know Warren that's a pretty awesome statement that you made
Feb 17th 2012
81
Prince lasted longer,but he wasn't touching no Rick James
Feb 15th 2012
11
      Stone City should be compared to the Revolution
Feb 15th 2012
13
           to me I never cared for Prince's flower power paisley era except
Feb 15th 2012
23
           alot of truth in there -
Feb 15th 2012
25
                Prince's problem is he started believing his pres clippings
Feb 15th 2012
48
           RE: Stone City should be compared to the Revolution
Feb 19th 2012
112
                Yep truth -
Feb 19th 2012
118
                     lol, 'ndeeds
Feb 19th 2012
125
Real audio stream of Great White Cane album
Feb 15th 2012
7
Tis why I love you brother - thank you!!! Long live that funk!
Feb 15th 2012
14
My take...
Feb 15th 2012
26
      Wait - Rick James is NOT in the HOF??? WTF?
Feb 15th 2012
29
      RE: Wait - Rick James is NOT in the HOF??? WTF?
Feb 15th 2012
30
           Man the Red Hot Chilli Peppers are culture vultures lol
Feb 15th 2012
32
                RE: Man the Red Hot Chilli Peppers are culture vultures lol
Feb 15th 2012
34
                haha... you have a point sir. Especially about Jackson Browne
Feb 15th 2012
36
                Red Hot Chilli Peppers= Fishbone with Hits basically
Feb 16th 2012
53
      the Hall of Fame is a Joke
Feb 15th 2012
49
I recently got around to listening to Rick's late 80's output...
Feb 15th 2012
10
Ya know I agree. Loosely's Rap to me was groundbreaking.
Feb 15th 2012
15
Glow (the album) to me was Rick bringing back a LIVE sound
Feb 15th 2012
18
It was a good move sonically - that video tho... smh.
Feb 15th 2012
19
Glow was actually in the can since 1983 FYI
Feb 15th 2012
24
      that's really interesting to note about Glow being in the can.
Feb 15th 2012
27
           RE: that's really interesting to note about Glow being in the can.
Feb 15th 2012
31
           Exactly - I think you nailed it - Rick was the bridge between
Feb 15th 2012
33
           RE: Exactly - I think you nailed it - Rick was the bridge between
Feb 15th 2012
35
                Cot dayum - excellent description. Can you imagine Hollywood?
Feb 15th 2012
37
                     RE: Cot dayum - excellent description. Can you imagine Hollywood?
Feb 15th 2012
38
                          Please share... at least one if you could.. lol... seriously
Feb 15th 2012
39
                               RE: Please share... at least one if you could.. lol... seriously
Feb 15th 2012
41
                                    Yo.
Feb 15th 2012
42
                                         Thank you again for that man. I'm over here shaking my head. lol
Feb 15th 2012
44
                                              Speaking of Eddie
Feb 19th 2012
114
                                                   Yea he did - earlier in this post I explained he was the best
Feb 19th 2012
122
                                                        RE: Yea he did - earlier in this post I explained he was the best
Feb 19th 2012
126
           RE: that's really interesting to note about Glow being in the can.
Feb 19th 2012
113
                man everyone is lol Gary & thomas dolby - underrated man
Feb 19th 2012
121
           dude Please Prince took from Rick the stage and the studio
Feb 16th 2012
54
                RE: dude Please Prince took from Rick the stage and the studio
Feb 16th 2012
56
                     I have to agree with Murph here...
Feb 16th 2012
57
                     RE: I have to agree with Murph here...
Feb 16th 2012
58
                     RE: dude Please Prince took from Rick the stage and the studio
Feb 16th 2012
59
                          RE: dude Please Prince took from Rick the stage and the studio
Feb 16th 2012
60
                               meanwhile MJ sold out about almost 30 more dates than Prince
Feb 17th 2012
61
                                    RE: meanwhile MJ sold out about almost 30 more dates than Prince
Feb 17th 2012
62
                                    I have to agree. Wholeheartedly - it's like we need to move beyond
Feb 17th 2012
65
                                    you know you and your self purple righteious agenda is tiring
Feb 17th 2012
70
                                         RE: you know you and your self purple righteious agenda is tiring
Feb 17th 2012
72
                                              Wait - Freddy Jackson over Prince?
Feb 17th 2012
73
                                              RE: Wait - Freddy Jackson over Prince?
Feb 17th 2012
75
                                                   I mean personal taste is that - but you have to be kidding Maxx
Feb 17th 2012
83
                                                        RE: I mean personal taste is that - but you have to be kidding Maxx
Feb 17th 2012
87
                                                             But your two of your arguments suffer the same fate
Feb 18th 2012
91
                                                                  put the purple kool aid pitcher down man
Feb 18th 2012
99
                                                                       but you bodied yourself with your opening statement lol
Feb 18th 2012
106
                                                                       whatever dude, I'm real R&B Old school dude
Feb 19th 2012
108
                                              RE: you know you and your self purple righteious agenda is tiring
Feb 17th 2012
74
                                                   RE: you know you and your self purple righteious agenda is tiring
Feb 17th 2012
77
                                    I have to disagree Maxx - Prince has moved on from pop hits
Feb 17th 2012
69
                                         purple brainwashing powers 101, prince ain't counted since 88
Feb 17th 2012
71
                                              C'mon man... haha..
Feb 17th 2012
76
                                                   Michael Jackson just like WHitney Houston was that "IT" Act
Feb 17th 2012
78
                                                        I hear you but let's look at it this way...
Feb 17th 2012
79
                                                             dude Please, you don't know Michael Joe jackson and his impact
Feb 17th 2012
89
                                                                  ya know these are some good points - cannot lie
Feb 18th 2012
93
                                                                       RE: ya know these are some good points - cannot lie
Feb 18th 2012
96
                                                                       Basically - I mean I won't lie Rkellys throwback album
Feb 18th 2012
97
                                                                       RE: Basically - I mean I won't lie Rkellys throwback album
Feb 18th 2012
102
                                                                       well murph FYI Love Letter is gold check your facts and figures
Feb 18th 2012
100
                                                                            RE: well murph FYI Love Letter is gold check your facts and figures
Feb 18th 2012
103
                                                                       we are all bias but yours is scary and to the point of laughable
Feb 18th 2012
101
                                                                            hahaha - you just rewrote exacty what I said
Feb 18th 2012
104
                                                                                 when you flip the script and create two classic albums
Feb 19th 2012
109
I co sign to the fullest!
Feb 15th 2012
45
I know I'm in the minority.... but I thought The Flag was a solid album
Feb 15th 2012
40
      No I'm with you I even like Freak Flag
Feb 15th 2012
43
      the flag had Maceo Parker on there amongest others
Feb 16th 2012
55
I wish the Stone City Band's albums could go back into print
Feb 15th 2012
16
their talent yes - their sound no. All Rick.
Feb 15th 2012
17
his Boy from the Buffalo Levi Ruffin on keys had a sound
Feb 15th 2012
22
      man thank you for putting names with the faces cause I have always
Feb 15th 2012
28
           Bobby Nunn is one of my fave artists
Feb 19th 2012
115
                Yep and that is not the first time Rick has that problem
Feb 19th 2012
116
                RE: Yep and that is not the first time Rick has that problem
Feb 19th 2012
127
                I kind of wish those records would get a proper reissue
Feb 20th 2012
133
                     RE: I kind of wish those records would get a proper reissue
Feb 20th 2012
135
Rick James Radio on Live 365.com
Feb 15th 2012
46
was/is anbody else, still into the Deeper Still album?
Feb 15th 2012
50
i bought my copy back in 07.
Feb 15th 2012
51
it's funny how there can't be a rick james post
Feb 17th 2012
63
RE: it's funny how there can't be a rick james post
Feb 17th 2012
64
Actually it's how it started in another post.
Feb 17th 2012
66
Pretty much.
Feb 17th 2012
80
      And yet it still happened
Feb 17th 2012
82
It's because greats are compared to other greats
Feb 17th 2012
67
Exactly.
Feb 17th 2012
68
Not on here, they aren't
Feb 18th 2012
98
      Right that's true. I even heard cats in the barbershop go in
Feb 18th 2012
105
He's not actually related to Melvin Franklin.
Feb 17th 2012
84
RE: He's not actually related to Melvin Franklin.
Feb 17th 2012
86
Yeah it is
Feb 18th 2012
95
Tell me about the latter of the two things you've mentioned here
Feb 17th 2012
88
      Yeah, I have "Reunion". It's okay.
Feb 18th 2012
90
           Then you have seen the video with All 7 Tempts?
Feb 18th 2012
92
                What exactly did he achieve tho?
Feb 19th 2012
107
                     You gotta take that up with rick james bro - again - his words
Feb 19th 2012
119
                          RE: You gotta take that up with rick james bro - again - his words
Feb 20th 2012
128
                               ah treat her like a lady - that's right
Feb 20th 2012
130
                               bottom line Rick James hook those Brothers up
Feb 20th 2012
131
                               yep exactly cause even if standing on the top wasn't the last
Feb 20th 2012
132
                               no one's "throwing shade" at Rick James.
May 13th 2012
142
                               that I think was why it was a big deal
Feb 20th 2012
134
                                    yep my uncle says the same thing
Feb 20th 2012
136
                                    Again, Melvin said _everyone_ he liked was blood family.
May 13th 2012
143
                                    I feel like the Tempts did just fine without Ruffin, but not Kendricks.
May 13th 2012
144
                                         word, I can dig this
May 13th 2012
146
I really need to get Rick James' book.
Feb 19th 2012
110
Man his life was movie unto itself - real rockstar shit
Feb 19th 2012
120
      Oh I can believe it.
Feb 20th 2012
129
           man between Rick, Rich, Redd, Miles, Marvin and Iggy
Feb 20th 2012
137
Fuck it, since the post is still here, i got a question
Feb 20th 2012
138
it wasn't about that
Feb 20th 2012
139
give it to me baby is about being so high that you can't perform
Feb 20th 2012
140
      Maxx really educated us in this post - my respect has skyrocketed
Feb 21st 2012
141
one of the GOAT
May 13th 2012
145

Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
131957 posts
Tue Feb-14-12 01:35 PM

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1. "no argument here."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

people like to laugh @ his criminal escapades and his funny stories

but when it came to music, Rick was no joke

I can be critical of Rick as anyone, but I think he did well not to embarrass himself -musically- throughout his career. THROWIN DOWN is one of the best Rick James albums out there.

  

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mistermaxxx08
Member since Dec 31st 2010
16076 posts
Tue Feb-14-12 01:39 PM

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2. "Rick James was the Last great Funkateer IMO"
In response to Reply # 0


          

one song was important for the early 80's in "Super Freak" and then fast forward almost a decade later and "U can't touch" this becomes one of the most important songs ever in hip hop. now that is genius and rare 1)

was going to work with diana ross and then flips the script and works with Teena Marie, teaches her things in the studio and the rest is history 2)

has a huge hit with Eddie Murphy and don't act like "party all the time" still don't get some folks hyped? 3)

in the Most sampled and Looped category Ever and He won a Lifetime Ascap award back in 04 because his work has been sampled and looped so much 4)

Bro Man brought SMokey RObinson back with "Ebony Eyes" and that song was gospel. Bro Man had Grace Slick singing the hook on "69 times" 5)

Rick with Street songs went triple platinum with no MTV and just radio play,word of mouth and his live show. 6)

his stuff with Roy Ayers were always on point. Rick tried many diffeent musical styles. 7)

Rick was the last Funkateer who made his Band swing and yet when he switched to Synth Based funk he didn't lose a thing. 8)

even though the Mary Jane girls only made a couple of albums, "In my House" and a few other hits still hold up really strongly. he got the best out of acts he produced and wrote for. 9)

Berry Gordy gave rick a million up front because he knew Rick could always bring the cuts and Rick did for a very long time. 10)

a whole lot of acts bit Rick's thing and he called them out on it. he ain't never gotten his full due for the Punk funk and also for his musical stew. Bro Man sang like Eddie Levert and had a SLy Stone vibe and yet had a street thing going on in between with polish. incredible combination. 11)

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

  

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Artful Dodger
Member since Nov 20th 2009
8361 posts
Tue Feb-14-12 01:48 PM

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3. "Maxx went in - hell yeah."
In response to Reply # 2


          

Bro Man brought SMokey RObinson back with "Ebony Eyes" and that song was gospel.

---- Yeah he really did and if you think about it he did that for most of the Motown legends. Hitting them off with comeback success. Ironically the video for Ebony Eyes is still solid. Rick was also one of the few successful black artists to feature real black women in his video. I STILL can’t get over how fine that woman was in “Give It To Me Baby”.

Bro Man had Grace Slick singing the hook on "69 times" 5)

----- Man you did it to me with this. I had no idea. Cot dayum.

Rick with Street songs went triple platinum with no MTV and just radio play,word of mouth and his live show. 6)

----- Yep. Started with a Dj in Atlanta and as Rick put it in his 88 interview with the BBC - it was moving slowly and he got worried. After this cat exposed this record it started selling hundreds of thousands per week.

his stuff with Roy Ayers were always on point. Rick tried many diffeent musical styles. 7)

--- Amen.

Rick was the last Funkateer who made his Band swing and yet when he switched to Synth Based funk he didn't lose a thing. 8)

---- This is true. This is amazingly true when you consider Party All the Time or Cold Blooded.

even though the Mary Jane girls only made a couple of albums, "In my House" and a few other hits still hold up really strongly. he got the best out of acts he produced and wrote for. 9)

---- and this is something that most folks are just not considering. His music, despite having markings of the 70’s and 80’s (dependent upon which album) aged remarkably well.

Berry Gordy gave rick a million up front because he knew Rick could always bring the cuts and Rick did for a very long time. 10)

a whole lot of acts bit Rick's thing and he called them out on it. he ain't never gotten his full due for the Punk funk and also for his musical stew. Bro Man sang like Eddie Levert and had a SLy Stone vibe and yet had a street thing going on in between with polish. incredible combination. 11)

---- Yeah he did. Let’s not forget the fact that he also promoted natural hair, beautiful darkskinned women, and sang songs about ‘Brown skin’ at the height of the Debarge “lightskinned” complex thang era. Most ppl don’t realize that by 81 Rick James WAS Motown and arguably gave it a facelift. He also takes credit for Buffalo Springfield and the success of Joni by default. Once the band he and Neil had broke up – it ended up being a blessing in disguise. He went on to record his first album with the Stone City band (in a barn mind you), declared it a rock album, and Neil went to Cali to start Buffalo. Joni went to Napa valley to … well become Joni Mitchell.

  

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SP1200
Charter member
20101 posts
Wed Feb-15-12 12:39 AM

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8. "Yoooooooo,"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

I had NO idea he did an album with Roy Ayers. I gotta check that out asap!

>his stuff with Roy Ayers were always on point. Rick tried many
>diffeent musical styles. 7)
>

http://i54.tinypic.com/2j51hj4.jpg

  

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Lil Rabies
Member since Oct 12th 2005
1584 posts
Thu Feb-16-12 12:11 AM

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52. "Terrific post "
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

Respect for that one.

Taking shots in the dark/that's a bad call
Going straight for your head/ gotta saw it off

  

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Thanes1975
Member since Aug 03rd 2011
1618 posts
Fri Feb-17-12 09:14 PM

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85. "RE: Rick James was the Last great Funkateer IMO"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

@MAX.....you are 100% correct. Rick was great. You pretty much hit it on the head.

"Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds."-Albert Einstein

http://twitter.com/#!/TonyHanesPoetry

  

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Artful Dodger
Member since Nov 20th 2009
8361 posts
Sat Feb-18-12 08:38 AM

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94. "he did - but by our standards "
In response to Reply # 85
Sat Feb-18-12 08:41 AM by Artful Dodger

          

there are diehard funkateers who seem to say no that it stopped with Parliament and the Ohio Players. I could never understand that personally and I seem to think its cause of a change in sound from Horns to dominant synths. Plus the new wave vibe - like Roger, Rick, Prince.

They claim they watered it down so that the crossover effect was achieved - I dunno, maybe its a time period thing?

I wonder how they feel about Atomic Dog tho?

Or Erotic City?

That begs the question - where do bands like Slave, The Dazz band (who toured with Pfunk), Midnight Star & Cameo fall in the equation?

Cameo maybe runs that borderline of R&B and funk, but when they grooved you can't tell me it wasnt as hot as the Ohio Players.

  

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slyde
Member since May 30th 2008
748 posts
Sun Feb-19-12 05:00 AM

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111. "RE: he did - but by our standards "
In response to Reply # 94
Sun Feb-19-12 05:39 AM by slyde

  

          

>That begs the question - where do bands like Slave, The Dazz
>band (who toured with Pfunk), Midnight Star & Cameo fall in
>the equation?
>
>Cameo maybe runs that borderline of R&B and funk, but when
>they grooved you can't tell me it wasnt as hot as the Ohio
>Players.
>


Slave had built up their own sound with the trademarks of Steve Arrington's voice and the late Mark Leslie Adams' monsterbass thrown in the mix. And they had a legacy of groups and solo-artists evolving from them such as Steve Arrington's Hall Of Fame, Legion, Steve Washington who also started the groups Aurra, Civil Attack and he produced for George Clinton later. Those jam-patrol elements of Mark Adam's bass and Steve Arrington's voice (continued by guitarist Danny Webster) kept being essential in their sound while the vibe as a whole became somewhat more electronic. Vocally, i guess that Steve Arrington might've influenced Keith Sweat.

The Dazz Band's history goes back to earlier formations of Bell Telefunk and Kinsman Dazz. I think founder/saxophonist Bobby Harris wanted to create a sort of mix of danceable jazz (dazz). They occasionally included instrumental jams on their albums (Beyond The Horizon, T.Mata). Their horn-included work went more electronic from their Joystick album and onwards + receiving a Grammy and charting well with "Let It All Blow" a year later.

Midnight Star had some hard funk jams with horns on earlier tracks such as "Tuff" and "Hot Spot" (featuring Bootsy), and continued with electro-funk work like "Freak-A-Zoid", "Electricity" and "Operator". The sound of the mellow groove "Wet My Whistle" was continued with "Midas Touch" which had wider chart success. Brothers Reggie and Vincent Calloway wrote and produced for various artists including Solar-mates The Deele, and both appeared years later as horn-section on Bootsy's released live recording "Keepin Dah Funk Alive 4-1995".

Cameo actually broke through with the disco-flavoured track "Find My Way" which also appears on the soundtrack of "Thank God It's Friday". The track "Funk Funk" from their first album was a nod to P-Funk, but other than that, they slowly builded their own sound. Until 1981 it was the big-band and horn-driven sound which changed to a new wave-ish electronic vibe, and Larry Blackmon adopted of course Sugarfoot's yowl-growl (as did The Bar-Kays' Larry Dodson and Con Funk Shun's Michael Cooper). Horns were occasionally recorded on their albums after 1981 (Soul Army, Talking Out The Side Of Your Neck, Love You Anyway, I've Got Your Image, Word Up, Candy, You Make Me Work, Emotional Violence, Front Street, Slyde, etc).

The overall sound in funk became more electronic because of the instruments which companies designed, fabricated and provided for the music industry, and because the synth-sound became a popular fashion.


Cats i can think of who resemble the punk-funk sound:


http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xdu18o_80s-boogie-funky-sekou-bunch-can-t_music

^ Sekou's jam has all the ingredients: horns, synths, voice ^



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rCkYwb_c18

^ Donnie Sterling's voice comes close to Rick's. The instrumentation here is less in the punk funk style though ^



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTteWTIil0c

^ Same thing as with the Donnie Sterling example ^



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jweoJ2HMF6Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rc8EdFNqq-I

I always felt that QQ's "Disco Nights" approaced that sound of Slick Rick ^

  

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Artful Dodger
Member since Nov 20th 2009
8361 posts
Sun Feb-19-12 04:15 PM

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117. "great post - really nice breakdown"
In response to Reply # 111


          

this is what I"m talking about!

thank you bro

  

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slyde
Member since May 30th 2008
748 posts
Sun Feb-19-12 05:04 PM

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123. "RE: great post - really nice breakdown"
In response to Reply # 117


  

          

>this is what I"m talking about!
>
>thank you bro


Anytime man

Keep on keepin on

  

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slyde
Member since May 30th 2008
748 posts
Sun Feb-19-12 05:13 PM

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124. "RE: great post - really nice breakdown"
In response to Reply # 123


  

          

I actually made a sloppy mistake. "Rigor Mortis" was Cameo's breakthrough hit,
aired for the first time back then by radio jock Frankie Crocker. Larry explains it in the video below, around 2:09

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqD9Hnmmmm8

  

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vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
20388 posts
Tue Feb-14-12 04:57 PM

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4. "no mention of the legendary feud he and the Purple one carried on"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

for years?....

Prince used to come to that mofo shows on the back of his bodyguard, Chic, and instantly steal all the attention from him.

Rick alwasy maintained that Prince bit several of his ideas, including the all girl group. Rick had the "Mary Jane Girls" of course and Prince had "Vanity 6" and later "Appolonia 6."

but Rick was a bad boy no doubt...

grassrootsphilosopher

  

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Warren Coolidge
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5. "Obviously one of my favorites..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

The Great White Cane album is a must have for people who are interesting seenig what Rick James was really about. I've always said that if you listen to that album....and then check out Prince's early work...Rick James during the very earliest parts of his career was more musically advanced than Prince was in his early career particularly from a songwriting and production perspective.

Rick does not get the credit he's due.

I'll post more later.

  

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Artful Dodger
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Tue Feb-14-12 10:57 PM

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6. "Im going back to that album tonight lol!"
In response to Reply # 5


          

see I never took it that way - I just felt Rick always had pure direction. P on the other hand didnt truly find his direction until Dirty Mind - his third album. In terms of proficiency - no way around it P had him beat. But Rick was a travelled man - P was not so direction, connection to scenes, understanding trends was probably more of his feature. I mean Neil Young? Lol. SMH. Amazing.

  

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Warren Coolidge
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9. "my comparison to Prince is really just my way of "
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

kind of correcting the myth that some young folks may believe in that Prince in every way and on every level surpassed Rick James. I mean there is no question Prince achieved a level of success that Rick was not able to ...but old foggies like me can remember a time when Rick James was THE Black male R&B/Funk superstar...a time when he was actually bigger than Prince AND Michael Jackson..... Rick opened a lot of doors..even though he was not allowed to enter those doors (mtv).... He was a torch bearer in a lot of ways....

Great White Cane shows a lot of talent....and yes vision and direction..... The other thing too.... Rick James first official A-side / B-side release was You and I and Mary Jane....now...I mean you'd have to do a lot of searching to find an artist who came out the box that strong with their first release....

Rick knew what he wanted and knew how to put it on record...and was a huge success at that..

Not to front on Prince...you know I'm a huge fan...but if we were to compare timelines and what each one could do, and was accomplishing at similar points on their timelines...Rick James was a mad muthafukka.....lol. No question....

and I'm pretty sure that if Prince were really really candid.... He would say that him coming into a game where Rick James was doing his thing pushed Prince to go even further ....he was a great competative motivation for Prince...

  

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Artful Dodger
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12. "yeah man well said"
In response to Reply # 9
Wed Feb-15-12 09:10 AM by Artful Dodger

          

"Great White Cane shows a lot of talent....and yes vision and direction..... The other thing too.... Rick James first official A-side / B-side release was You and I and Mary Jane....now...I mean you'd have to do a lot of searching to find an artist who came out the box that strong with their first release...."

I had no idea that was the first single. Good lawd.

haha... wow. It was odd too cause Rick was on Dinah Shore, he was Letterman, SNL, the Tonight Show - he did some really huge things in the name of funk - yet stated he wasn't a funk artist (cause as he put it his albums showed you flashes of rock, funk, R&b, soul, disco, and even folk). My only issue with Rick was that he really took the images of funk (Bootsy in particular), it's sound, timing, and magnified it and made it palatable if not radio friendly. My uncles hate Rick - they consider themselves funketeers in the truest sense and have all stated Rick was the beginning of the end with Funk - he sold it out to the white masses. I have always said that Pfunk took cue from Rick with One Nation and Flashlight cause he was in the truest since a funkrock/punkfunk star. I also understand that using Punk Funk was more of a marketing ploy. When he defines it to Dinah Shore it made zero sense. Lol. But it didn't matter. You are dead on the money.

I think Rick was as a mulitinstrumentalist - marginal at best. His truest strength wasn't instrumentation - it was being a fantastic song writer (single friendly songs in particular) and... a band leader. He had a great way of pulling out the best in Stone City. Prince didn't find his direction until living in New York with his half sister and hanging out at the height of the Glam Rock, new wave funk movement.

I remember a story of the New York Dolls saying they were almost positive that Prince would come see them night after night cause of his height and his fro at the time. lol.

Wanna know something wierd? Joni Mitchell told that same story. About a kid with an Afro always sitting in the front row of all her shows.



  

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Warren Coolidge
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20. "Rick was a Funkster...but he was an R&B guy too..and really"
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

walked the line between the 2 as well as anyone could have done it... I'd say he did both as bout as well or better than any other person... Super funk and Black soul R&B meeting together in a close to perfect fit..

Rick really wasn't denying the funk as much as he wanted to distinguish himself as doing funk and then some.... coining Punk Funk..that type of thing...

As I've said many times on here...those Balanced albums of that era really show you the true talent of artists and groups..and Rick had that on lock.... Street Songs is looked at as his pennacle, but to me Throwin down showed that he had perfected the formula...

  

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Artful Dodger
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Wed Feb-15-12 12:27 PM

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21. "yeah I totally agree - Throwin Down might have been too black"
In response to Reply # 20
Wed Feb-15-12 12:29 PM by Artful Dodger

          

to get the respect Street Songs got. Street songs was also a pretty short album so it's impact was stronger. I agree totally.

I think what's crazy is how Rick might have been the first to fuse all these elements (like you pointed out) long before most Black Stars were considering crossing over or tapping into the mainstream. Even when they did it was normally through re-working a cover - something that was an already proven hit. Rick carved his own lane in that regard. The interesting part about Rick is he was able to achieve this while never losing his sensibilities and funk roots.

Massive achievement. Even James couldn't do this with Living in America being his biggest single ever and James going his entire career without every having a number one song.

Also the worst song out of his entire catalogue. A mockery of what he'd created and a soundtrack song. SMH.

  

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Warren Coolidge
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47. "the thing about it too brother is that the environment was ripe for Rick"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

to handle both worlds.... when we say crossover today..or in the 90's it meant a certain thing but in the 70's and 80's you could cross over doing pretty much straight R&B ...there was enough going on in R&B to make moves wherever....Stevie Wonder...Earth Wind and Fire ..artists like that were making huge R&B records that were perfect for radio formats back then that played whatever the hip music at the time was happening.....whether it be pop/rock/R&B or even disco....

Rick coming out of that era ..the climate was right for him to hit big, and he had the talent to do it.

I'll compare him to Sly Stone in that he was a super funky artist who also made an in-road to another sub-genre without really compromising the funkiness.... Sly I think stands alone as far as making Funky music and making pop music....a super innovator in both....Prince came on later to do it but Sly had it mastered first... Rick did a similar thing with Funk and R&B.... he had powerful R&B vocals..I mean he was basiclly Eddie Levert on his vocals..making funk that could reach towards Pfunk, and R&B that was as cold as the Ojays and the like...

  

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Artful Dodger
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81. "ya know Warren that's a pretty awesome statement that you made"
In response to Reply # 47


          

and I don't think many people realized this.

That back then you could cross over doing R&B - take Aretha, the Tempts and Marvin as examples. It didn't have to be about crossing your sound over... that's a pretty powerful punch you have there sir cause that's a huge illuminating fact.

That and comparing him to Sly - I get that all day. Hmm.. wow.

Thanks for that - see that's why having you cats around is so needed.

Learn em man.

  

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mistermaxxx08
Member since Dec 31st 2010
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Wed Feb-15-12 02:01 AM

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11. "Prince lasted longer,but he wasn't touching no Rick James"
In response to Reply # 6
Wed Feb-15-12 02:06 AM by mistermaxxx08

          

i mean Teena Marie alone>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>all of Prince's female proteges and it ain't even close.

Mary Jane Girls>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Vanity 6 and Appolonia 6.

and the Stone city band from a playing perspective could easily match the time.

i ain't even gonna mention process and the doo rags and Val Young.


Prince didn't get his voice until "dirty mind" and his sound until "1999" and then he hit his orbit.

however Rick James had it all and he also matched Prince on the Synth Based funk, Prince though ccan't see no Rick on the big Band funk tip, prince with horns and whatnot sounds overblown.

Rick,a s Warren said and I was there, Rick at one time was bigger than MJ,prince and Lionel all put together on the Street tip.

Rick moved me more and he had his own Hybrid thing going and he also played with top flight musicians and yet kept his thing going.

Rick was Street and yet had sphistication in his musical arrangements and Productions.

rick was more hip hop than alot of these corny jive turkey rappers and yet he was smooth to sing and be a playa for real.

rick was Macking, Thugging and Playing and yet had flavor with it and kept it moving.

Rick had Pimp the Simp, Ebony eyes, cold blooded all on the same album and it all worked. the underrated "Cold Blooded" album. He even had Billy deel Williams on that album, grand master flash on there. Rick did the guest star Hood style on his albums.

had Lawrence Hilton Jacobs and Janet Du Bois from Good times on background vocals on the "street songs" album.

Narada Michael Walden played drums on "make love to me".

Rick wasn't afraid of working with other big name acts and yet he maintained his thing.

I miss Rick.

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

  

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Artful Dodger
Member since Nov 20th 2009
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Wed Feb-15-12 09:19 AM

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13. "Stone City should be compared to the Revolution"
In response to Reply # 11
Wed Feb-15-12 09:28 AM by Artful Dodger

          

Now you have a comparison. lol.

"i mean Teena Marie alone>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>all of Prince's female proteges and it ain't even close.

Mary Jane Girls>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Vanity 6 and Appolonia 6.

and the Stone city band from a playing perspective could easily match the time." -----------------------

Stone City were beasts. It always amazes me how much range they showed and I think this only added to his star power.





"i ain't even gonna mention process and the doo rags and Val Young."

Well you see that's where Rick lied. The Time were not in reaction to Stone City as that was Rick's backing band - the Revolution where Prince's. Prince got the jump on Rick with the Time considering Process and the Doo rage didn't show face until after the Time's 3rd album in 84.


"Prince didn't get his voice until "dirty mind" and his sound until "1999" and then he hit his orbit."

Let me reposition that a bit cause I agree - I would say he didn't get his voice until Dirty Mind but his sound right after with Controversy. That's the album where drum machines, electronic drums, and sythns became equally as important as the song itself. Prior to that he used no drum machines.

"however Rick James had it all and he also matched Prince on the Synth Based funk, Prince though ccan't see no Rick on the big Band funk tip, prince with horns and whatnot sounds overblown."

hahaha.. I don't know about that - Sign O the Times is a fine display of this very item. I don't think that's what it is, you see if you listen to Rick's records he often used the same lines over and over. Many of his songs have the the same horn lines, chord progressions, and guitar licks - just slightly reworked. He knew what got the crowd going, what made em dance, and he drained it until those records became huge. That is not to say he didn't have range cause he did... his performance on Dinah Shore proves this (even tho he lypsynched). Prince was more daring in that context if you listen to Parade, Sign O The Times - lifting horn lines from "ATrain", "Now Is The Time", "Round Midnight" and a few Jb licks. His horn lines often times reflected the complexities of Claire Fishcers backing tracks and that caused him to stretch, along with the fact his horn players had extensive jazz backgrounds, whereas Rick knew what made a hot dance single.


"Rick,a s Warren said and I was there, Rick at one time was bigger than MJ,prince and Lionel all put together on the Street tip."

I agree - I love his take on Prince when he says "he lives in a fantasy land, I'm street, I'm reality. I'm that dose of reality he doesn't want." Truth.

"Rick moved me more and he had his own Hybrid thing going and he also played with top flight musicians and yet kept his thing going.
Rick was Street and yet had sphistication in his musical arrangements and Productions."

Agreed - groundbreaking album.

"rick was more hip hop than alot of these corny jive turkey rappers and yet he was smooth to sing and be a playa for real."

Yep. Amen to that Maxx, you nailed it.

"rick was Macking, Thugging and Playing and yet had flavor with it and kept it moving."

Yep... lol. So true.

"Rick had Pimp the Simp, Ebony eyes, cold blooded all on the same album and it all worked. the underrated "Cold Blooded" album. He even had Billy deel Williams on that album, grand master flash on there. Rick did the guest star Hood style on his albums.

had Lawrence Hilton Jacobs and Janet Du Bois from Good times on background vocals on the "street songs" album."

WHATTTTT?!?!?!?!?!?. Just wow.

"Narada Michael Walden played drums on "make love to me". "

WHAT?! Incredible.

"Rick wasn't afraid of working with other big name acts and yet he maintained his thing."

Ya know, that's an exceptional point and feeds right into what I was saying about him as a bandleader. He had charisma. Even when you see the Dinah Shore quick interview you love the guy.

"I miss Rick."

Amen Maxx. Amen.

  

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mistermaxxx08
Member since Dec 31st 2010
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Wed Feb-15-12 12:41 PM

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23. "to me I never cared for Prince's flower power paisley era except"
In response to Reply # 13


          

for "sign o the times". I thought and still think Around the world in a day and parade were back to back pure corn and corny aside from a few tracks.

listen to Rick james's "garden of Love" album, Rick flowery as well, it was the album right before "street songs" and it had a few jams. however it wasn't happening IMO.

Prince always nicked and picked things and that worked for him,however i never felt the big band thing in his music, that cold robotic Synth funk is where Prince best thrived IMO.

to me Dirty Mind,Controversy and 1999 are his prince's trinity if you will and yet you saw creative growth in all 3 of them,however iMO 1999 is where his legend was truly born and fully established.

rick knew what worked and yet he did embrace trying other things.

he had full arrangements. go back and listen to "Jefferson Ball" or "fool on the street" from the "Bustin out" album.

Mr Policeman reggae.


rick had a musical stew going on that is often overlooked IMO.

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

  

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Artful Dodger
Member since Nov 20th 2009
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Wed Feb-15-12 01:05 PM

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25. "alot of truth in there - "
In response to Reply # 23
Wed Feb-15-12 01:10 PM by Artful Dodger

          

yeah his relationship with Stevie and Bob had a huge influence on his sound. Not to mention other greats like Mtume, Miles. Rick was the musicians musician both on stage and off.

I hear you about Prince - I think what makes your statement even more interesting is his electro funk was purely of his concoction. As in total control from start to finish and I think Prince somehow really shined in this area.

Although I don't discount Purple Rain at all. Around the World In A Day was really nothing short of an outtakes album and even he stated he felt Parade was rushed. However Sign O the Times and Lovesexy (now, not then) are both really fantastic works. I think the problem with Around the World In A Day and Parade was that he was being pushed by Wendy to include more influence in his sound. I doubt that she realized this - considering her brother played on the album as well. This is also Prince's fault as he would construct basic beats or ideas and leave them to do the rest. Perhaps his need for pop success fueled this, not sure but that process changed alot for the better and for the worse.

What makes Prince so special is his best work never saw light of day.

The Dream Factory album - best P&the Revolution album.
The Purple Rain Outtakes - long version of Computer Blue, Let's Go Crazy (which did see light both in the film and on 12inch), the bsides during that era, Electric Intercourse, Possesed... I mean Prince was on point.
The Original Crystal Ball album
The Black Album.

The Black album did see light, but pulling it and replacing it with Lovesexy to me was never a good move. That album could have restored the trinity affect coming right after SOTT.

I agree - Rick had range. Way more range than he was given credit for and it's largely due to the fact that he the person was such a larger than life figure.

  

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mistermaxxx08
Member since Dec 31st 2010
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Wed Feb-15-12 11:17 PM

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48. "Prince's problem is he started believing his pres clippings"
In response to Reply # 25


          

about wendy and Lisa. yeah they were charming and added there own thing here and there, however he was responsible for his own thing and the bottom line he got seduced into a sound and style and it got old in a hurry.

he stopped writing out songs and he tried to be something he wasn't.

i ain't never cared for no Around the world in a day or parade. IMO the best songs he gave away. that is why the revolution had to go. that sound was cold and it worked, but then it felt frost bitten. problem with Prince he wanted to go back and get the R&B Soulman respect and til this day he still is trying to show how down he is and its been average at best.

Prince was a smart Hybrid artist and that is his Greatness, but he has been set on trying to play directly into R&B and its not been anywhere close to what he had between 80-87 IMO.

or b sides for those two projects.

make an EP or album out of

a Love Bizarre,

the dance eletric

shes always in my hair

pop life

the screams of Passion

Kiss

the Original Old friends 4 sales


and that is cool right there.

those 7 tracks and its a good look IMO.



Sign o the times i respect,though there are some things i do skip on it.

Lovesexy i like parts of it and then other parts are over produced and the songs ain't got much but alot of over layering.

Prince IMO was always his best when he stripped things down.

that to me is what made him stand out, less is best but also he got alot out of it.

Black Album is vastly overrated IMO and imo he made a joke album there.

when you are in your prime and peak you should never have to say this is my Black album unless you are faking the funk??

Rick James kept it moving and then he just ran out of steam and didn't have any new energy to guide him for a while and it happens to alot of cats.

but when Rick was at his best, he could hang with anybody and alot of folks took notes.

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

  

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slyde
Member since May 30th 2008
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Sun Feb-19-12 06:08 AM

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112. "RE: Stone City should be compared to the Revolution"
In response to Reply # 13
Sun Feb-19-12 06:48 AM by slyde

  

          

> "...Well you see that's where Rick lied. The Time were not in reaction to Stone City as that was Rick's backing band - the Revolution where Prince's. Prince got the jump on Rick with the Time considering Process and the Doo rage didn't show face until after the Time's 3rd album in 84..."




Process and The Doo Rags their image might approach The Time, but their sound (especially their debut single) was inspired by doo-wop groups, hence their group name lol. That debut single, "Stomp And Shout" starts with them chanting "...Shoop-shoop-shoop-shoop...", and they're doing the trademark street singing at the beginning of their video:

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/80653431/

Sort of Temptations-inspired doo-wop with a touch of punk funk. "Standing On The Top" would make a solid back-to-back mix with "Stomp And Shout". My fave rotation by them is "Searching For Love":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6fRp-hWEBM

  

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Artful Dodger
Member since Nov 20th 2009
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Sun Feb-19-12 04:19 PM

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118. "Yep truth -"
In response to Reply # 112


          

but you see the Time's dress code was from the Doo Wop era.

Baggy pants
conks
long chains
doo rags
stacey adams
big caddys

the difference of course was the sound.

Process and the Doo rags were his response... but... smh lol

  

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slyde
Member since May 30th 2008
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Sun Feb-19-12 05:15 PM

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125. "lol, 'ndeeds"
In response to Reply # 118


  

          

no question bout that

  

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Warren Coolidge
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Wed Feb-15-12 12:33 AM

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7. "Real audio stream of Great White Cane album"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

http://www.soul-patrol.net/greatwhitecane1.ram

  

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Artful Dodger
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Wed Feb-15-12 09:29 AM

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14. "Tis why I love you brother - thank you!!! Long live that funk!"
In response to Reply # 7


          

  

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murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
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Wed Feb-15-12 01:09 PM

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26. "My take..."
In response to Reply # 5
Wed Feb-15-12 01:15 PM by murph71

          

Rick James is easily one of the most "underrated" stars from the late 70s/early 80's era....Underrated songwriter, bassist, arranger, and talent broker (the spin off acts, his outside production)...


Rick was carrying funk and straight ahead R&B during much of his prime...He is the bridge to Prince....Speaking of the Purple Dude...He got his ass handed to him night in and night out while opening for Rick...And to me P should thank Rick in his prayers...because clearly he gave him the kick in the ass he needed to become GREAT...

Rick is an Unsung Superstar, if that makes sense...The last music outlaw who lived like a rock star but wasn't afraid to stand up to the segregated music industry...

The crazy part is you have ever had the honor to hang out with Rick, you find out that he really was a larger than life dude....No bullshit with Rick. Straight-no-chaser...Dude tricked me into buying dinner for his 3 man crew...And I wasn't even mad at him...lol

He was a charming cad...A dude that had demons but was born to make music...He should be in the Rock N Roll Hall of Fame (I'll debate this with anyone...)

That's how great he was...in and out the studio....

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

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Artful Dodger
Member since Nov 20th 2009
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Wed Feb-15-12 01:24 PM

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29. "Wait - Rick James is NOT in the HOF??? WTF? "
In response to Reply # 26


          

The Red Hot Chilli Peppers are in the HOF and Rick isn't?

See what I'm saying?

Why we keep supporting their ish is beyond me. Their ish meaning their system and their accolades. It's so defeating.

  

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murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
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Wed Feb-15-12 01:33 PM

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30. "RE: Wait - Rick James is NOT in the HOF??? WTF? "
In response to Reply # 29


          

>The Red Hot Chilli Peppers are in the HOF and Rick isn't?
>
>See what I'm saying?
>
>Why we keep supporting their ish is beyond me. Their ish
>meaning their system and their accolades. It's so defeating.


In all fairness to the Peppers, those dudes stayed relevant for more than 20 years...So it's their longevity that has aided them...

My issue with the Hall is they have placed people like Tom Waits in, who I respect immensely for his songwriting...But outside of the music industry, the public cannot hum many of his tunes...

If Jackson Browne got in (had a limited hit making run), Rick should get in...

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

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Artful Dodger
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Wed Feb-15-12 01:42 PM

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32. "Man the Red Hot Chilli Peppers are culture vultures lol"
In response to Reply # 30
Wed Feb-15-12 01:44 PM by Artful Dodger

          

a novelty band at best. George gave them the direction but c'mon.

Rick had a long tenure of releases, hits, and producing.

Add his legacy with other musicians and it totally trumps them.

They are celebrated as a funk band when in reality they raped funk, marginalized it and resold it to the MTV generation under the disguise of original music. See Mac Miller for details.

Rick Rubin and George Clinton were the best parts of that equation.

SMH.

  

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murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
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34. "RE: Man the Red Hot Chilli Peppers are culture vultures lol"
In response to Reply # 32
Wed Feb-15-12 02:00 PM by murph71

          

>a novelty band at best. George gave them the direction but
>c'mon.
>
>Rick had a long tenure of releases, hits, and producing.
>
>Add his legacy with other musicians and it totally trumps
>them.
>
>They are celebrated as a funk band when in reality they raped
>funk.
>
>SMH.


To me culture vultures are people who take someone else's sound, groove and swag and pass it off as their own or gets praised like they re-invented the wheel...The Peppers never did that...

In fact, not only did they work with many of their funk heroes and cover many of their funk favorites and played with many of those musicians, they have given countless testimonies about their heroes...

But here's what I really dig about the Peppers: They didn't stay in that rock-funk box...They started giving nods to everyone from the Beach Boys to Zappa...Hell, "Under The Bridge" is a mix up of rock, reggae and folk...

Add the fact that in their prime they were a MONEY live act, and you get the Hall pass...

Again, it's the likes of Jackson Browne you should be looking at with a sideeye when Rick was on the outside looking in...

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

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Artful Dodger
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36. "haha... you have a point sir. Especially about Jackson Browne"
In response to Reply # 34


          

and yeah live they gave it up.

I was being a bit hard on them and in truth - if George and Rick Rubin (aka the greatest producer of maybe our last two generations) saw the need in the RHCP, then maybe I should rethink my position.

See, this is why I love OKP.

*Daps*

  

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mistermaxxx08
Member since Dec 31st 2010
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53. "Red Hot Chilli Peppers= Fishbone with Hits basically"
In response to Reply # 32


          

and they still ain't as good as fishbone. but they had the hits.

they have talent and are good, however hall of fame worthy? naw not even close Rick James should easily be in.

War should have been in way before RHCP. however there is a segement of these record comapny brass that is feeling sfer with a white lead band who has some funk in them getting in than a all Black Band doing the same thing and it is racial though the Peppers aren't bandits. IMO. however quiet as its kept and it ain't quiet Anothony Kedis is your next Steven tyler and what i mean is watch dude be hosting some music show or getting a push at something, because i can just see it in the stars.

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

  

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mistermaxxx08
Member since Dec 31st 2010
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Wed Feb-15-12 11:20 PM

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49. "the Hall of Fame is a Joke"
In response to Reply # 26


          

and they are a funny business Man. Rick James should have been in there long ago, but Politics and hating turkeys who still hold things over certain acts ain't going to let it happen, though that industry has made hundreds of millions of dollars off of Rick James beleive that.

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

  

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BlackandProud
Member since Feb 08th 2012
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Wed Feb-15-12 01:12 AM

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10. "I recently got around to listening to Rick's late 80's output..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

like The Flag and Wonderful and those two albums are really overlooked in my opinion. Rick James was very much his own person and stayed bringing something interesting to the table and game. I really like those two albums though.

  

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Artful Dodger
Member since Nov 20th 2009
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Wed Feb-15-12 09:32 AM

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15. "Ya know I agree. Loosely's Rap to me was groundbreaking."
In response to Reply # 10
Wed Feb-15-12 09:32 AM by Artful Dodger

          

Sure Blondie tapped into the hiphop/rapper inclusion in a non-rap single, but I think Rick nailed it. To me to even pull Roxanne Shante was just... genius. Both albums have serious flashes of greatness. It's odd cause Glow would have been a MUCH bigger single if he had stayed away from the obvious Purple Rain story line - P was a monster at that point.

The whole packaging of the Flag with the Red, Black and Green just showed you how connected to the streets Rick was.

He also dropped alot of 5 percent intellect (as well as PFunk and George) with lines about L7 and staying out of the square. The man was the SHIT.

  

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Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
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Wed Feb-15-12 09:34 AM

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18. "Glow (the album) to me was Rick bringing back a LIVE sound"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

>It's odd cause Glow would have
>been a MUCH bigger single if he had stayed away from the
>obvious Purple Rain story line - P was a monster at that
>point.

It was more pop-influenced than anything else he had released, but compared to the rather "cold" sounds of "Cold Blooded", Rick taking it back live was really a daring move for 1985 IMO.

"Moonchild" is one of Rick's best songs that doesn't really get mentioned outside of his truest and bluest fans.

  

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Artful Dodger
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Wed Feb-15-12 09:38 AM

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19. "It was a good move sonically - that video tho... smh."
In response to Reply # 18
Wed Feb-15-12 09:39 AM by Artful Dodger

          

that video totally did two things for me -

it proved that Rick was a fantastic actor.

That and his scene in the film Life proves this. he stole that part, he stole that scene. How he plays into the camera in the Give It To Me Baby video - incredible. He IS the video, just seeing him do anything is entertaining and his comfort on film is just sheer star power. To me the fact that Hollywood didn't reach out to him to further his card just shows you how racist they are.

However that video was too much of a PR rip off but I LOVED the fact that outside of Superfreak (hmmm.. now that I think about it) he ALWAYS featured beautiful black women. Clearly beautiful women of color. Man I'm missing Rick more and more as I read this post. lol.

  

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mistermaxxx08
Member since Dec 31st 2010
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Wed Feb-15-12 12:46 PM

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24. "Glow was actually in the can since 1983 FYI"
In response to Reply # 18


          

he was told to release " the Greatest hits album in 84, but "Can't stop" the single was used in Beverly Hills cop.

the sound and vibe were all cut from the same time.

i dig the "Glow" video because that was some get back after all of the years Prince had been jacking his thing. prince ain't never told the truth.

Rick was in love when Glow dropped i use to live in Virginia and there was a chick he was seeing and he wrote about it on the song 'Somebody the girls's got" which was my cut from "Glow, love that groove and vibe.

RIck had a tight album with Glow,however he was trying to be accessible and I mean after all he did have a pretty big year already in 85 with party all time being huge for Eddie Murphy and the mary jane girls with "In my house" and there album doing big business.

85 was also to have been the launch of "Mary Jane Records" but him and the motown brass fell out and that is why the third Mary Jane girls project never saw the light of day.

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

  

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Artful Dodger
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Wed Feb-15-12 01:16 PM

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27. "that's really interesting to note about Glow being in the can."
In response to Reply # 24
Wed Feb-15-12 01:17 PM by Artful Dodger

          

Wow. I honestly think tho that Prince jocking Rick is a bit overstated. I think the only thing P got from Rj was his live show. How to really work the crowd and interact. His need for newwave funk almost directly relates to his time in Ny - as noted on the song Sister. Party Up we know is a Morris song so I think it's a bit of an overstatment, especially when you consider the fact that Controversy his next album - was completely different from DM.

I think the issue Rick had with P was being upstaged on tour - Rick had NEVER had that happen. Then add the fact that P was not the friendliest cat during that period and Rick was down to party.

Rick was a druggie, P wasn't (at that point). Rick was wild, Prince was very sterile in his personal life.

I think P represented the future and Rick, a man's man didn't like what he saw.

Add Prince stealing Vanity from Rick and boom. Explosion.

Rick's statement about the Mary jane girls? Truth. I think Prince learned the more work you have floatling, the more bread you have coming in. Rick produced many - P would too - but that logic wasn't exclusive to Rick.

Now the inclusion of new wave funk - debateable.
P's first album had flashes of funk but pretty stereotypical 70's funk - Average White Band, Sly etc.

  

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murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
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Wed Feb-15-12 01:41 PM

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31. "RE: that's really interesting to note about Glow being in the can."
In response to Reply # 27


          

>Wow. I honestly think tho that Prince jocking Rick is a bit
>overstated. I think the only thing P got from Rj was his live
>show. How to really work the crowd and interact. His need
>for newwave funk almost directly relates to his time in Ny -
>as noted on the song Sister. Party Up we know is a Morris
>song so I think it's a bit of an overstatment, especially when
>you consider the fact that Controversy his next album - was
>completely different from DM.




Yes...you get it...Rick's true influence on P was his stage show...Before Rick, P's stage show was more like a rock show...His movement was a combination of Jagger and Iggy Pop...Rick made P look at his stage show and make it BETTER...More animated, more fluid and more interactive and BLACKER to an extent...

Musically though? Prince was on his own genre-mixing, sound creating shit...


>I think the issue Rick had with P was being upstaged on tour -
>Rick had NEVER had that happen. Then add the fact that P was
>not the friendliest cat during that period and Rick was down
>to party.
>
>Rick was a druggie, P wasn't (at that point). Rick was wild,
>Prince was very sterile in his personal life.
>
>I think P represented the future and Rick, a man's man didn't
>like what he saw.


Very true...



>Add Prince stealing Vanity from Rick and boom. Explosion.

Yep...

>
>Rick's statement about the Mary jane girls? Truth. I think
>Prince learned the more work you have floatling, the more
>bread you have coming in. Rick produced many - P would too -
>but that logic wasn't exclusive to Rick.
>
>Now the inclusion of new wave funk - debateable.
>P's first album had flashes of funk but pretty stereotypical
>70's funk - Average White Band, Sly etc.

Which is why Rick def. deserved more credit for his contributions...Dude held it down for a nice minute, carrying a genre on his back before Prince started to "get it" in the early '80s...

In short, Rick in his prime was as big as advertised...

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

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Artful Dodger
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33. "Exactly - I think you nailed it - Rick was the bridge between "
In response to Reply # 31
Wed Feb-15-12 01:52 PM by Artful Dodger

          

all that existed in the 70's, into the 80's, into Prince.

That's a excellent observation.

I mean some would say the same of Steveland Wunderkind but I think the difference is in that Rick represented being a true rock star to Stevie's matyr/almost angelic/slash political presence. Making Rick a much more exciting figure to watch at any point in his life. Rick was just... open.

I also find it odd how much Rick notes Hollywood in his lyrics - almost a strange tie of art imitating life or vice versa.

I do think it's a travesty that Rick's use of genre bending songwriting has yet to be discovered and celebrated. The song he did on Dinah Shore (the second number) started off like Zepp's Ocean Song. lol. Just incredible!

  

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murph71
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35. "RE: Exactly - I think you nailed it - Rick was the bridge between "
In response to Reply # 33


          




To me Rick was the king of the Sunset Strip before the heavy metal heads...But he could back it up with the music...

That was the greatness of dude...He was a wildman who had the songs...

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

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Artful Dodger
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37. "Cot dayum - excellent description. Can you imagine Hollywood?"
In response to Reply # 35
Wed Feb-15-12 01:56 PM by Artful Dodger

          

Rick James & Richard Pryor?

I got high just typing it. lol.

  

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murph71
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Wed Feb-15-12 01:59 PM

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38. "RE: Cot dayum - excellent description. Can you imagine Hollywood?"
In response to Reply # 37


          

>Rick James & Richard Pryor?
>
>I got high just typing it. lol.


Dude...it was crazier than anything you could imagine...lol...Rick told me stories FOR DAYS on how it used to be....

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

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Artful Dodger
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Wed Feb-15-12 02:02 PM

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39. "Please share... at least one if you could.. lol... seriously"
In response to Reply # 38


          

I imagine between

Rick James, Eddie Murphy, and Richard Pryor - man... the stories. Whew.

Paul Mooney's auto kinda went into these, but I'm saying... haha.

did he ever share anything on P?

  

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murph71
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Wed Feb-15-12 02:11 PM

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41. "RE: Please share... at least one if you could.. lol... seriously"
In response to Reply # 39


          

>I imagine between
>
>Rick James, Eddie Murphy, and Richard Pryor - man... the
>stories. Whew.
>
>Paul Mooney's auto kinda went into these, but I'm saying...
>haha.
>
>did he ever share anything on P?


I'll share one...

One time Rick was at a very upscale LA restaurant with some celebrity friends...As I was told Eddie was with him....So Rick has this white chick with him...bad ass broad...And they are all seated at different tables in the far end of the room. And Rick decides to have sex with the chick right then and there...He places two tables together, get's his 3 bodyguards to block everyone's view and fucks ol girl right then and there...

Needless to say Eddie and the crew are SHOCKED...Of course, the whole crew are thrown out of the restaurant...But one of Rick's handlers comes back to the guy running the place and gives him a shit load of money to stay quiet about it...This was during Rick's "Super Freak" period when he was getting a $1 million advance ( not including money made for sales and his outside projects) per album...Rick was CAKED up...

Anyway Eddie just does the Eddie laugh and says, "U r a crazy motherfucker...you are going to get me in trouble"....lol

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

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Artful Dodger
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Wed Feb-15-12 02:44 PM

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42. "Yo."
In response to Reply # 41


          

I am dying over here! Yeah man... mf-ing ROCKSTAR! hahaha...

Thank you thank you thank for sharing. Jesus - unreal. It's like his life was a movie in person. That makes Jim Morrison look like Mr. Rogers in comparison. lol.

  

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Artful Dodger
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44. "Thank you again for that man. I'm over here shaking my head. lol"
In response to Reply # 42


          

  

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slyde
Member since May 30th 2008
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Sun Feb-19-12 06:45 AM

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114. "Speaking of Eddie"
In response to Reply # 44
Sun Feb-19-12 06:45 AM by slyde

  

          

Slick appeared as "Spanky Johnson" in "Life" with Murphy

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0123964/fullcredits#cast

  

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Artful Dodger
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Sun Feb-19-12 04:28 PM

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122. "Yea he did - earlier in this post I explained he was the best"
In response to Reply # 114


          

in that scene and would have been a terrific actor.

  

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slyde
Member since May 30th 2008
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Sun Feb-19-12 05:21 PM

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126. "RE: Yea he did - earlier in this post I explained he was the best"
In response to Reply # 122


  

          

>in that scene and would have been a terrific actor.

Oh, i missed to see that part you posted. I guess i skimmed too fast over the topic and thought that it wasn't mentioned yet lol. Tried to find and post here a scene with Rick from that movie, which was once on youtube.

  

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slyde
Member since May 30th 2008
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Sun Feb-19-12 06:22 AM

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113. "RE: that's really interesting to note about Glow being in the can."
In response to Reply # 31
Sun Feb-19-12 06:47 AM by slyde

  

          

>Musically though? Prince was on his own genre-mixing, sound creating shit...

Gary Numan's work was an inspiration for his direction towards the new wave sound. During an interview Prince once explained that he still was analyzing and figuring out how Gary recorded some tracks.

  

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Artful Dodger
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121. "man everyone is lol Gary & thomas dolby - underrated man"
In response to Reply # 113


          

  

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mistermaxxx08
Member since Dec 31st 2010
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Thu Feb-16-12 02:40 AM

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54. "dude Please Prince took from Rick the stage and the studio"
In response to Reply # 27


          

Prince's debut album sounded like a Broke MJ, Broke EWF, broke Steive,broke Bee Gee, broke Sylvers, etc.. he was a cat with talent, but no direction and a dime a dozen act.

it wasn't until "dirty Mind" that Prince found his voice, because he wasn't that kind of artist that he would ultimately become. Prince was very Green until "dirty Mind" and then he got polished with controversy and then found his Groove with 1999.

however he checked out Rick's sound and stylings and Rick had already talked about his own "uptown" on the song "jefferson ball" jefferson avenue in buffalo wa the place to hang.

listen to "cop and blow" and don't act like prince wasn't listening?

listen to "dream maker" and tell me prince wasn't listening.

the truth is it was a older brother little brother thang going on.

prince was younger and played the game, but tell me when Prince started calling himself a "Slave" and dissing the industry if he didn't sound like you Know who Rick James?


act like Prince didn't hear "garden of Love" which was out before "Around the world in a day?

Vanity was industry Property and FYI after she left the purple camp in 83 guess which label she went to and signed with? Motown.

so it ain't like she left Rick and went with Prince forever and ever and FYI Rick got over her, but Prince never did because all his female proteges practically all looked like her in some form or fashion another "L" for Prince.


Rick made Prince step up his studio game as did Michael Jackson.

but in different ways. Rick made Prince step up the funk

Michael made Prince step up his versatility on record. act like "purple rain" wasn't Prince's attempt at a "thriller"??

Prince took a while before he got his sound and voice together. that turkey took about 5 years before he got the Perm right and the dance steps right.

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

  

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murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
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Thu Feb-16-12 10:33 AM

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56. "RE: dude Please Prince took from Rick the stage and the studio"
In response to Reply # 54
Thu Feb-16-12 10:41 AM by murph71

          

>Prince's debut album sounded like a Broke MJ, Broke EWF,
>broke Steive,broke Bee Gee, broke Sylvers, etc.. he was a cat
>with talent, but no direction and a dime a dozen act.
>it wasn't until "dirty Mind" that Prince found his voice,
>because he wasn't that kind of artist that he would ultimately
>become.

Why do you bring up stuff as if you are making an illuminating statement, Maxx? We all know this....We've all talked about this a million times...We know, we know...Slow down...


>Prince was very Green until "dirty Mind" and then he
>got polished with controversy and then found his Groove with
>1999.


Again, we know homie...We all agree with this...It has nothing to do with u claiming Prince took something from Rick's sound...Because it's just not true...He took a little of his stage show...he took a little of his showmanship...hell Rick even made some of P's stage show blacker...But sound? Nah...Prince was a shit load of genres and what came out was the Prince sound...


>however he checked out Rick's sound and stylings and Rick had
> already talked about his own "uptown" on the song
>"jefferson ball" jefferson avenue in buffalo wa the place
>to hang.
>
>listen to "cop and blow" and don't act like prince wasn't
>listening?
>
>listen to "dream maker" and tell me prince wasn't
>listening.
>
>the truth is it was a older brother little brother thang going
>on.
>
>prince was younger and played the game, but tell me when
>Prince started calling himself a "Slave" and dissing the
>industry if he didn't sound like you Know who Rick James?
>
>
>
>act like Prince didn't hear "garden of Love" which was out
>before "Around the world in a day?
>
>Vanity was industry Property and FYI after she left the
>purple camp in 83 guess which label she went to and signed
>with? Motown.
>
>so it ain't like she left Rick and went with Prince forever
>and ever and FYI Rick got over her, but Prince never did
>because all his female proteges practically all looked like
>her in some form or fashion another "L" for Prince.
>
>
>Rick made Prince step up his studio game as did Michael
>Jackson.
>
>but in different ways. Rick made Prince step up the funk
>
>Michael made Prince step up his versatility on record. act
>like "purple rain" wasn't Prince's attempt at a "thriller"??
>
>Prince took a while before he got his sound and voice
>together. that turkey took about 5 years before he got the
>Perm right and the dance steps right.

Do you actually read other people's post, homie? I and other people have made the same point...That Rick made Prince re-work his show and inject more of a "funk" dynamic (i.e. not sound, but showmanship, crowd interaction, stage set up, ect...Prince def. was schooled by Rick in that department...and it made him a better LIVE act...)into his concerts...

What no one will say is Prince jacked a "sound"...Dirty Mind was as far away from Rick as u can get...From the synths actually replacing the basslines much like P-funk to the crazy ass subject matter... What Prince should be thankful for is Rick was the bridge to his success...Rick was holding it down for R&B/funk...carrying it on his back...Prince def. benefited from this...

Bottom line...We are losing everyone...Rick is gone...MJ is gone...We just lost Whitney....The greats are leaving us too soon...

So do me a favor Maxx...While Prince is still alive and kicking, respect that man...You don't have to like him more than say MJ, Lionel, Rick, Freddie Jackson, or anyone else you want to trumpet...But for God's sake, be happy that the man is still alive and kicking...

Because when he's gone, what will you say then?

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

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Artful Dodger
Member since Nov 20th 2009
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Thu Feb-16-12 11:50 AM

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57. "I have to agree with Murph here..."
In response to Reply # 56
Thu Feb-16-12 11:57 AM by Artful Dodger

          

You have made a ton of fine points Maxx, definitely but clearly when it comes to Prince there is a bit of a miss.

Dirty Mind, Controvery, 1999, PR going fwd bare no resemblence to Rick. From a musical perspective Rick had his thing and Prince had his. Who was funkier is even debateable when you consider Prince's work that he gave to the Time, The Family, and Vanity 6 (Nasty girl in particular).

Prince did steal Vanity from Rick - Vanity even acknowledges this. They met at the American Music Awards. Prince spotted her with Rick, waited until she went to the bathroom and walked up to her and said "give me your jacket and try mine on". She was blown away both at the fact it was Prince and that the jacket fit perfectly. She returned to her seat and Rick said "where's the jacket I bought you?" and she said "Prince has it". It was on.

This was POST Dirty Mind - this was the Controversy era and Prince had just ended his relationship with Susan Moonsie - "Baby" was bout her btw. They were living together and she thought she was pregnant. "I Hope our baby has eyes like you" - Susan Moonsie.

You are right tho, Prince would show up at Rick's shows just to create pandemonium but that was about 2 years after the Dirty Mind tour serving as the opening act.

I totally agree with you and Murph that prior to that - P's live show was more rock and a bit bland if not over the top. He was young, he was green, he was learning. However after touring with Rick - he definitely became more comfortable. Running with greatness can do that - however make no mistake about it...

Dirty Mind was already finished by the time they hit the road and songs like Head or even previous numbers like Soft and Wet, Sexy Dancer, and I Wanna Be Your Lover - were great funk/dance numbers.

You also have to consider that in addition to gettin in tour with with Rj-P was doing smaller shows and side shows.

He got better.

There is literally no connection to Rick in the studio cause honestly Rick was not on Prince's level of musicianship. No slight on Rick cause what Rick did was amazing in it's own right.

Let me prove this. You ever see Rick James perform a live guitar solo? Of course not. Bass solo? Barely. Keys? Nope - just the clavs displayign some funk chops (which he def had) and some basic keys for Big Time or a few other numbers.

Rick was a very solid multi-instrumentalist but his genius was in understanding how to really package a hot single and how to lead a band both on stage and in the studio.

that's a great trait to have. To give him that credit I don't have to down Prince cause the whole rivalry has been blown a bit out of proportion. From a stage show perspective - Prince learned from the master. he realized that funk was certainly a good thing - add the Rolling Stones debacle and he was sold.

Now if you want to discuss Prince being influenced in the studio - you wanna discuss ROGER - not Rick. That's who you should focus on cause that was the real funk trinity at that point.

Garden of Love was panned by almost every critic when it was released and Rick - being the great leader that he was - instead of moping he went back and created a masterpiece follow up.

I doubt highly that anyone pulled from Garden of Love. You sorely underestimate the legacy of the Coleman family who was very instrumental in the Around the World album. If anything that album was almost direct response to Lisa and Wendy exposing Prince to the Beatles, Indian music by Ravi Shankur, Coltrane, etc. They exposed Prince to everything he didn't get in Minneapolis - cause Wendy Melvoin and Lisa Coleman - both - their families have one of the longest running musical legacies in Hollywood and beyond.

His original intention was a Magical Mystery Tour - not a Garden of love. MMT was critically accalaimed. Garden of love was considered Rick's worst album - why reference that?

if anything Rick showed Prince that being sexual on stage, being controversial on stage - got ppl amped, hyped, and interested in a show perhaps even more than a guitar solo.

Prince also was heavily inspired by Santana - if you listen to or watch the Controversy tour from either Houston or DC - Prince lifts Santanas Moon Flower solo - NOTE FOR NOTE. However his interplay into the construct of his own song "Head" is just - genius.

Nah Maxx, Prince is no fluke and there is no overblown hype. The man is a beast.

  

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murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
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Thu Feb-16-12 04:39 PM

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58. "RE: I have to agree with Murph here..."
In response to Reply # 57


          



ditto....

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

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mistermaxxx08
Member since Dec 31st 2010
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Thu Feb-16-12 09:49 PM

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59. "RE: dude Please Prince took from Rick the stage and the studio"
In response to Reply # 56
Thu Feb-16-12 09:51 PM by mistermaxxx08

          

prince did jack sounds and was a smart hybrid artist, he didn't create anything, but he was cleaver at taking other things and making them his own.

i've given prince his due and what he was back in the day. however naw He ain't no Michael Jackson not even close. he ain't no Stevie Wonder, Marvin gaye, Aretha Frankin,Marvin Gaye, Sly Stone,Lionel B.Richie, Bobby Womack,Gladys Knight, Whitney Houston, R.kelly,Rick James,Barry White,Freddie,Luther, EWF, Maze, you see had he slowed his roll and put out more quality instead of quanity things would look better for him IMO.

anyway i respect Prince and he still is worth seeing live,however his studio game been weak for a really long time and i just don't give turkeys a 25 year pass because they keep putting out average to below material dude needs a new sound and producer.

Prince could use a R.Kelly to get some energy in his music IMO

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

  

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murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
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Thu Feb-16-12 10:14 PM

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60. "RE: dude Please Prince took from Rick the stage and the studio"
In response to Reply # 59
Thu Feb-16-12 10:21 PM by murph71

          

>prince did jack sounds and was a smart hybrid artist, he
>didn't create anything, but he was cleaver at taking other
>things and making them his own.
>
>i've given prince his due and what he was back in the day.
>however naw He ain't no Michael Jackson not even close. he
>ain't no Stevie Wonder, Marvin gaye, Aretha Frankin,Marvin
>Gaye, Sly Stone,Lionel B.Richie, Bobby Womack,Gladys Knight,
>Whitney Houston, R.kelly,Rick James,Barry
>White,Freddie,Luther, EWF, Maze, you see had he slowed his
>roll and put out more quality instead of quanity things would
>look better for him IMO.
>
>anyway i respect Prince and he still is worth seeing
>live,however his studio game been weak for a really long time
>and i just don't give turkeys a 25 year pass because they keep
>putting out average to below material dude needs a new sound
>and producer.
>
>Prince could use a R.Kelly to get some energy in his music
>IMO


Man...u singing the same ol' song...lol

God bless u Maxx...I'm sure when Prince leaves this earth you will give it up to one of the last true great ones...

Even MJ had enough sense to respect the man...

"We went and met with Michael, and Kenny said, ‘Michael, you’ve got to stop. We’ve got an incredible show, we don’t need any more vignettes.’ Michael said, ‘But Kenny, God channels this through me at night. I can’t sleep because I’m so supercharged.’ Kenny said, ‘But Michael, we have to finish. Can’t God take a vacation?’ Without missing a beat, Michael said, ‘You don’t understand — if I’m not there to receive these ideas, God might give them to Prince.’"

^^^This is respect

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

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mistermaxxx08
Member since Dec 31st 2010
16076 posts
Fri Feb-17-12 02:26 AM

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61. "meanwhile MJ sold out about almost 30 more dates than Prince"
In response to Reply # 60


          

and hadn't toured in a decade. MJ was cool and cocky about it, he knew he could take Prince on stage anytime he wanted.

i feel sorry for the Purpel Relics on here, now there is a Guy Named R.kelly who is Prolific and productive, works his Behind off and tours almost yearly and yet you gotta bring up a Relic who ain't mattered since we were kids?? just wow!!!!! glad i ain't stuck in a time warp like that.

if you don't drink and share the purple glass and spoon then you aren't worthy?

there are far more acts that I'll miss believe that and I'm not limited and Prince ain't mattered like that too me really since i was a kid.

he had a great run and whatnot, however nothing would hit me more than if Stevie Wonder leaves or Lionel B.Richie, Smokey RObinson,Aretha Franklin, Gladys Knight.

you see when you can expand your horizen beyond Prince get back to me and this ain't the 80's no more and he is just another Has Been Hit less cat who is a Musical Legend and has his importance, however he is far from the last of anything.

just another artist who had a moment when it comes to it.

you keep on drinking that Purple Kool aid and Brother I'll make sure you ger denture Money, because those cavaitys will make you a diabetic and rot your brain.

old Prince was tight, but i don't mess with nothing from dude like that no more.

R.Kelly is the Now get with the Program brother.

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

  

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murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
23113 posts
Fri Feb-17-12 10:12 AM

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62. "RE: meanwhile MJ sold out about almost 30 more dates than Prince"
In response to Reply # 61
Fri Feb-17-12 10:25 AM by murph71

          

U still don't get it...This is not a pissing contest anymore...People are dying...We losing our greats...The difference between me and you? I don't roll with needless agendas...I would tear up just as I did when MJ and James passed, if it were Stevie, Rev Al, Prince, G. Clinton, Aretha or any other of the true greats...I don't turn people's deaths into a measuring stick in that way...

When Whitney was alive hardly no one was giving heartfelt praise to her...hardly no one was waxing poetic about her once in a lifetime voice...

It took Whitney's death for people to acknowledge her massive contributions to the art of singing and music in general.

So how's this for a switch? Why don't we acknowledge the GREATS while they are still alive and kicking? Prince is still here, along with the likes of Stevie and others who have had profound impacts on our lives, Maxx...Give it up to the man while he's still breathing. Because these great artists won't be here forever...

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

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Artful Dodger
Member since Nov 20th 2009
8361 posts
Fri Feb-17-12 10:57 AM

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65. "I have to agree. Wholeheartedly - it's like we need to move beyond"
In response to Reply # 62


          

the criticism and enjoy the work.

  

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mistermaxxx08
Member since Dec 31st 2010
16076 posts
Fri Feb-17-12 12:37 PM

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70. "you know you and your self purple righteious agenda is tiring"
In response to Reply # 62


          

and FYI look it up i always gave it up for Whitney Houston go and ask somebody if you don't know.

i said long ago she was the Queen of Pop and a Mount rushmore Female Artist.

sorry i ain't got nothing more to say about Prince and that is hurting your lil ole feelings because just because i grew up on the dude, doesn't mean i have to talk about him. as i always say he is Past tense with me and that is in the truest sense.

matter of fact in Hindsight while he is a very talented artist, he is also somewhat Overrated to me now, because alot of his stuff ain't aged well and he ain't a singer's singer for me and my ears at this time and point.

in hindsight Luther Vandross>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Prince and Luther moves me far more if i go back like that and more soulful.

i like olr prince stuff and respect the talent however i ain't sweating that turkey and as a consumer who bought his work i got my rights so chill because everybody else ain't trying to drink from that purple Pitcher.

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

  

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murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
23113 posts
Fri Feb-17-12 12:43 PM

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72. "RE: you know you and your self purple righteious agenda is tiring"
In response to Reply # 70


          


>matter of fact in Hindsight while he is a very talented
>artist, he is also somewhat Overrated to me now, because alot
>of his stuff ain't aged well and he ain't a singer's singer
>for me and my ears at this time and point.
>
>in hindsight Luther
>Vandross>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Prince
>and Luther moves me far more if i go back like that and more
>soulful.
>
>i like olr prince stuff and respect the talent however i
>ain't sweating that turkey and as a consumer who bought his
>work i got my rights so chill because everybody else ain't
>trying to drink from that purple Pitcher.


I'm not shocked...U think Freddie Jackson is better than Prince...So it is what it is...lol

Basically, it comes down to this...Can u praise the likes of Rick, MJ or whoever without it turning into a diatribe on how Prince is overrated or how he stole from this artist or how he sucks, yada, yada, yada?


GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

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Artful Dodger
Member since Nov 20th 2009
8361 posts
Fri Feb-17-12 01:11 PM

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73. "Wait - Freddy Jackson over Prince?"
In response to Reply # 72


          

Maxx... say it aint so.

while I respect everyone's opinion... really?

or is that just speculation cause you like Freddy.

Now if it's true...

what makes Freddy so special? I can't even think of one album by that man.

  

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mistermaxxx08
Member since Dec 31st 2010
16076 posts
Fri Feb-17-12 01:22 PM

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75. "RE: Wait - Freddy Jackson over Prince?"
In response to Reply # 73


          

better singer which ain't even close 1)

enjoy his R&B songs far more overall 2)

Freddie never was Pan handling for white folks and the Pop audience either 3)

i can step to his songs and i dig the story telling and atmosphere in the songs. 4)

Freddie live is the truth, check out his BET Jazz Set or the unplug set he did with Valerie Simpson on youtube, he turned it out. 5)

and i'm not no Kid so i dig listening to R&B mainly and it ain't no popularity contest with me. i like what i like and what moves me and my ears.

Prince was cool when i was a Kid, however Freddie Jackson got the Grown folks stuff I dig more. just like Luther Vandross.

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

  

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Artful Dodger
Member since Nov 20th 2009
8361 posts
Fri Feb-17-12 07:04 PM

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83. "I mean personal taste is that - but you have to be kidding Maxx"
In response to Reply # 75
Fri Feb-17-12 07:21 PM by Artful Dodger

          

first a better singer?

Thats subjective. Who says everyone likes all that gospel sanging sanging? Not everyone does. I'll take Bob Dylan over Fantasia any day - why? CAuse he's a great artist and she is merely a product of the industry. First Prince is even held in the highest regard by Lionel Richie who Prince upstaged at the American Music Awards when they sang together and Prince started out on a extremely high note (literally) there is a picture of Lionel's face and hes in complete disbelief. He's even quoted as saying Prince was a force, the most talented musician he'd ever encountered. You hear that more and more from everyone from Alan Leeds to Quincy. You cannot just discount that for a couple of hit wonders like Freddy Jackson.

A singer from the machine tends to sing anything - cause there are no morals there. An artist like Prince on the other hand tends to pick and choose and not cause of talent - cause of reason.

Now I wont do a back and forth on Freddy Jackson cause Im laughing as I type this. Freddy Jackson may be good live - I would never use BET soundstage performanes as a guide - me personally but I will check it out.

Prince has influenced three decades of music - hell four if you count his first two albums - Freddy Jackson has done the same song and dance you would expect from any run of the mill R&b artist -

Jam Tonight?
You Are My Lady?

Haha... man Miles Davis talks about Prince in his autobiography - Eric Clapton is afraid of the man - Marcus Miller said he couldn't keep up with him if he tried. Prince's musical legacy is felt worldwide and is only mentioned in the same breadth as TRUE legends - not fake made up ones - true legends like Jimi Hendrix, Santana, James Brown.

Freddy jackson's biggest moment? The fundraising charity scene from King of New York.

With all due respect - to place Rick beyond Prince, that's an argument - even though it really isn't an argument at all. To compare Freddy Jackson or even bring his name up cause of one good performance on BET - disqualfies you from the convo. Haha..

Im kidding, Im kidding - but that really is like saying Color Me Bad was better than the Time.

You know I love you brother but your really gonna have to sell me on this one. The Rick thing I get - the D'Angelo thing (although you went HUURRRddd) I get - but this? The Rkelly thing i will never ever get but we do agree on his work ethic.

  

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mistermaxxx08
Member since Dec 31st 2010
16076 posts
Fri Feb-17-12 09:30 PM

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87. "RE: I mean personal taste is that - but you have to be kidding Maxx"
In response to Reply # 83


          

Prince was important in the 80.s

just ok in the 70.s

overrated from the 90's til now IMO.

the only thing that keeps Prince in the mix is his early to mid 80's run and the fact he can bring it to the stage, however if I was going by his 70's stuff, his 90's stuff,00's stuff til now, then Prince would be working drive thru with Alfonso and Eugene Wilde.

yeah Freddie Jackson's music moves me more these days and his live show is cool. Prince to me at times trys to appeal too much and over the past 20 years he wants to be Blacker Musically as if Nat Turner was his long lost Uncle and Prince trying to Prove it and it just feels off.

R.Kelly is far more interesting Musically than prince IMO and he has out-lasted him in R&B, don't believe me, you better go ask somebody.

Freddie Jackson was a King of R&B back in the 80's and R.kelly been the King since the 90's.

Prince ain't never ran R&B like either one of those cats.

Yeah prince got talent, however he is his own worst enemy and he didn't understand balance and timing.

alot of people got talent, however how many know when and how to always use it?

Prince ain't moved me in Years and he just feels like a Nostelgic Act over and over again.

not kidding at all because i moved on long ago.

some acts you can admire and respect, however if you don't ever hear anything from them again then it ain't no loss and that is how I feel about prince. like i said in the 80's He was something else, but that was a lifetime ago and I have long ago moved on.

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

  

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Artful Dodger
Member since Nov 20th 2009
8361 posts
Sat Feb-18-12 08:14 AM

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91. "But your two of your arguments suffer the same fate"
In response to Reply # 87


          

and didn't remain as relevant as Prince.

Mj and Freddy.

Mj is Mj so thats a different story.

But Freddy's success level is Melba Moore status. In fact she had more hits than he did.

So the only comparison from there would be the stge -
Prince has been destroying stages for over 30 years in a number of ways. Freddy Jackson sang on the BET soundstage.

Now when you say moves you - do you mean new Freddy? Or is that even a thing?

  

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mistermaxxx08
Member since Dec 31st 2010
16076 posts
Sat Feb-18-12 10:40 AM

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99. "put the purple kool aid pitcher down man"
In response to Reply # 91


          

Prince ain't been relevant for no 30 years straight please stop. he went through a long period where nobody was checking for him.

he got played out after 87, then hit briefly in 89 and then got old again until diamonds and pearls. then the symbol era he was a laughing stock and he got extra crispy corny for a decade plus until Musicology tour and the tie in with the anniversary of purple rain and him performing on the hall of fame awards and the grammys with Beyonce was good fo rhis business.

then he did the super bowl, but keep in mind these things were live events and marketed real well, it wasn't folks checking for his studio stuff like that.

Prince ain't had an album that people have talked about in many a year.

Michael Jackson just stopped on his dime basically, he could have easily sold more albums and if healthy toured as well.

he got bored of the game period.

Freddie Jackson never stopped making albums and FYI he had more number 1 R&B hits than anybody else in the 80's go look it up for yourself.

Freddie can perform live and he is a R&B act and he didn't chase Pop at all.

i know its hard for you to believe, however not everybody is sweating or checking for Prince and haven't been in years.

Prince live from a past tense perspective is always worth checking in on. studio wise? Naw i ain't cared about no new Prince music since the 80's and its little to no wonder that he is slowly bringing back a few tracks from his vault to update because his 80's era was his best era period, everything else is just kinda there IMO

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

  

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Artful Dodger
Member since Nov 20th 2009
8361 posts
Sat Feb-18-12 12:15 PM

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106. "but you bodied yourself with your opening statement lol"
In response to Reply # 99
Sat Feb-18-12 12:21 PM by Artful Dodger

          

Prince's last two tours alone proves this to be true.

lol - he's blown ya man Rkelly out the box in that regard and I only say that cause I know things like sales matter to you.

If his albums were going gold and platinum in the 90's - Emancipation placing him on Oprah, and he recently tore down the Grammy's with Beyonce, the NAACP awards the same year, the HOF, then the Superbowl (in the rain at that) how could he not be relevant in the last 30 years? - and your counterpoint is Freddy Jackson live on Bet?

LOL!

Fam.

If you don't see the difference what can I say?

Changed the rules of marketing and sales with Musicology?
Gave away a album for free with the leading newspaper in Europe?
Prince sold out the 02 Arena for over twenty nights straight?
Did the same in LA with the Staple Center?
Tore down the Superbowl with no controversy too - just a damn good show. Not even a overblown, overproduced show with a zillion dancers in Roman gear - just him killing it on guitar.

Mind you the last list of items he did WITHOUT a label.

You have to be kidding right now.

Also I HIGHLY doubt that Freddy Jackson (yes I am laughing my ass off just typing this) has THEE most number 1 R&B songs in music.

No. I refuse to believe it.

That sir is on you to prove I'm not even gonna waste my time in the Whitney Houston/Mariah Carey/Janet Jackson league cause I know better. If I am wrong then you will definitely make me a believer and I'll check him out but Mr. "Jam Tonight" for my money is really nothing but an Apollo TV Show fill in musical guest.

Luther of course is a much much much different story.

Now that's a true blue talent and legend.

  

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mistermaxxx08
Member since Dec 31st 2010
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Sun Feb-19-12 03:12 AM

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108. "whatever dude, I'm real R&B Old school dude"
In response to Reply # 106


          

and I ain't stuck in a Purple timewarp. ain't nobody sweated no Prince in years.

R.kelly at the Whitney Houston Funeral today showed you why he is the best artist going today. on a stage and bringing the emotions.

Freddie Jackson can sing/sang anywhere period. Luther Vandross had much respect for Freddie Jackson FYI so you can miss me with your dissing of Freddie Jackson.

Prince been a Oldies but Goodies Act for almost 20 years straight but you didn't get the memo. ain't nobody tripping off no "Emancipation" at all.

when Prince can write a good and not a Great(Because I doubt that will ever happen again) let me know.

Prince was something else in his Prime and Peak in a past tense.

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

  

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mistermaxxx08
Member since Dec 31st 2010
16076 posts
Fri Feb-17-12 01:16 PM

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74. "RE: you know you and your self purple righteious agenda is tiring"
In response to Reply # 72


          

fair enough and i'll get on the point. no problem man. peace

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

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murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
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Fri Feb-17-12 01:42 PM

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77. "RE: you know you and your self purple righteious agenda is tiring"
In response to Reply # 74


          

>fair enough and i'll get on the point. no problem man. peace


No prob....

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

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Artful Dodger
Member since Nov 20th 2009
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Fri Feb-17-12 12:24 PM

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69. "I have to disagree Maxx - Prince has moved on from pop hits"
In response to Reply # 61


          

and from feeding an industry of such.

Did he have his low point? Sure, that happens when you are prolific, constantly working and full of ideas. see unlike other singers, he didn't mind you seeing his flaws. His flaws never existed in his technical proficiency as a musician - so naturally the achilles heel would eventually be maybe producing too much. However some of Prince's best work has happened in the 00's.

Rainbow Children
Lotus Flower
One Night Alone
I even enjoy NEWS. Also each album does have moments.

Now mind you most of this is opinion and you have to also keep in mind there is a whole world out there beyond our American scope. While an album like Lotus Flower, NEWS or even Planet Earth may not impact the sales charts here in the states - overseas is a much different story. That's how it generally works with an artist - not an entertainer like Mj who's whole point is chart success - but an artist like Prince.

I like Mj, love him actually. However I don't need to really compare. I never find myself comparing Otis Redding to Same Cooke - I love them both for what they did and brought to the table. They both impacted almost every vocalist you hear today in some way, shape or form. That said - Mj had his flaws as well. Hell they all do.

  

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mistermaxxx08
Member since Dec 31st 2010
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Fri Feb-17-12 12:42 PM

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71. "purple brainwashing powers 101, prince ain't counted since 88"
In response to Reply # 69


          

and i heard and saw him at his prime and peak. Prince did that live version of "I love you,but i don't trust you anymore" and he even acknowledged on stage his height was the 80's.

ain't because of New Jack Swing

Ain't because of no rappers

ain't because of video games or gadgets

bottom Line Prince's music got old and that turkey lost his ability to write songs and settle for grooves and vamps.

Prince is a Pop Artist and he knows his lane.

ain't comparing, just find his albums from the past 23 years to be boring and ok. loved the the majority of his 80's stuff to a extent.

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

  

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Artful Dodger
Member since Nov 20th 2009
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Fri Feb-17-12 01:33 PM

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76. "C'mon man... haha.."
In response to Reply # 71
Fri Feb-17-12 01:41 PM by Artful Dodger

          

you don't like Prince I get it... but let's be real here.

I have the Destiney Tour, the Triumph Tour, the Victory Tour and the Dangerous Tour.

What I immediately noticed was Destiny and Triumph was live and in my opinion Mj was at his peak.

Triumph is my favorite - something spiritual was happening when Mj performed. That 20/20 piece on Mj around that time does a great job of exposing how powerful he was.

The other tours were not. Backing tracks on the Victory tour is what made that sound so muddy. Do you remember the inital reviews of that tour out of Florida where the tour started? Very poor.

Prince did this too - around 98-2001. Twenty years into his career. He has since abadoned all backing tracks and I honestly think he only did it to save money and tour (things were lean around that time).

Mj was great live but at some point being an entertainer took precedent over being an artist. many are guilty of it cause like you said about Prince - they start believing their own press clippings. If anyone believed that it was Mike - Prince has at least tried to come down off his cloud. Mj did too after the fallout with Sony and calling Tommy Mattolla - "The devil" at the apollo. Even Al Sharpton was uncomfortable... but clearly having personal addictions affected his vision

We are also comparing a man who grew up performing as a child - supported by the world's leading singers of the day (Diana, Marvin, the Temptations) next to a man who only 5 short years after learning the stage as a front man became a massive tour de force. You can't just write that off. Prince was no D'angelo - there was no hidden agenda in the press clippings, the man was bad - no slight on D btw, he has his own thing it's just you get my point.

I don't believe Prince believed his own press clippings, all he had to do was pop in the show and hit play.

If you are talking his misses... okay sure. However I think that's what makes him so brilliant - he gives it all to you. His wins, his losses, cause that's what a real artist does. He doesn't hide behind his label, his past, or one or two albums with critical acclaim. He keeps pushing and doing his thing no matter what.

Well let me re-phrase that cause an artist's approach is purely his own, some are slow and some are fast. That's what a real musician does - takes the good with the bad in order to learn from his mistakes.

That's why D'angelo trying to play guitar - I commend him cause it's alot to dissapear after 12 years and then come back and try out a new instrument when you are not ready. It says alot about his risk taking - I don't agree he doesn't take risks, he does... but like everythign he does just not that often.

Anyone will tell you, what may be considered horrible art today - may be considered a masterpiece tomorrow. Times change. Taste changes. James said when he first started rapping ppl looked at him like he was crazy. Same thing with his dancing and the way he dressed, they laughed at him. Months later he was the hottest thing in the country. Jean Michele was told by a peer that he would never make it as an artist cause he had no 'real' training in his eyes. We see what happend there right? Hell look at the genius of the Warhol/Basquiat exhibit from 88-89. Panned by every critic in New York - Now? Completely celebrated and the genius of that collaboration shines thru. It also spoke of the future - pre photoshop.

my point? you don't have to drink from the pitcher to see how bad Prince is - and not drinking from the pitcher won't change that either.

  

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mistermaxxx08
Member since Dec 31st 2010
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Fri Feb-17-12 01:44 PM

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78. "Michael Jackson just like WHitney Houston was that "IT" Act"
In response to Reply # 76


          

and the bottom line MJ set the standards period. he got trained at Motown and watched the best and went from there.

MJ's big flaw was his success and he didn't put out more product at sony. however in his Prime and Peak he was the top dawg IMO.

he did it all and he made an artistic statement,because anybody who thinks having hit songs, records and hit tours are the norm, doesn't understand the business.

what other kid act except for Stevie Wonder went to even greater heights as a Adult Artist?

MJ made statements on tours when he could literaly do a whole decade of his hits and then not even touch another,not many acts got it like that.

he could do a all motown show for 2 hours and you would be set. he could do a all Epic Era for 2 hours and you were straight.

He had the songs and he gave the people what they wanted.

Prince is a very talented cat and like i said live on stage i'd still go see him, but as far as Studio stuff goes? NAW that boat sailed way back in the late 80's and i ain't feeling what he has put out on a whole enough to want to buy anything new for quite some time.


i respect Prince's musical talent and whatnot, however he just doesn't move me enough to get interest beyond his peak and Prime past.

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

  

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Artful Dodger
Member since Nov 20th 2009
8361 posts
Fri Feb-17-12 02:16 PM

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79. "I hear you but let's look at it this way... "
In response to Reply # 78
Fri Feb-17-12 02:26 PM by Artful Dodger

          

everything you said is dead on the money about Mike - except you totally ignored some specific facts about his live show and his desire to be an entertainer - not an artist.

Prince produced his own hits.

Mj did not. He provided great foundation "Working Day and Night", "Don't STop Til YOu Get Enough" (arguably the best songs on the album), "Wanna Be Starting Something" "Billie Jean".

Great foundation.

However when you look at his work past thriller - it becomes sketchy. That said - he only has two classic albums to his credit.

The rest of his work - while flashes of his brilliance, cause the man was brilliant - succumbed to his personal life, his over the top lifestyle, and believing the hype.

Prince created his own hits - for ten years - using his own style of genre bending and often times from his own fingertips.

Even when things got lean and the sales slowed and the critics went in.... he kept plugging. To the joy of some and the chagrin of others. I personally loved his power trio with Michael Bland and Sonny T - thought it was one of his finer moments but considering it happened at the height of hiphop many felt otherwise. Time has proven me right on this.

Whether you take the Symbol Album, the Gold Album, Diamonds and Pearls, or the re-releasesd Crytal Ball album - each had great moments. Same with his 00 output like Rainbow Children, MLPS, Lotus Flower, etc.

Mj post thriller is a career of oddity at best. Bad was a good album, not a great one - but did have some great songs. Dangerous was a interesting collaboration with Teddy (side A - if that's appropriate to say today lol - was nothing short of powerful and a tour de force in energy - side b... ummmm snoozeful party of one). however as you keep going you see my point Invincible? Blood on the Dancefloor? - he became dependent upon having hits and working with whomever was the hottest artist of the day.

You see that when he started working with Murder Inc and in the mid 90's when there was a rumor that he wanted Dre and Death Row to do stuff for him. I mean really.

That's what i mean about abandoning the artistry for the pop success. Let's be real, Remember the Time is not Billie Jean or Beat It. Neither is Butterfiles.

So if you we use your own measuring stick - Prince still wins.

Off the Wall - 79
Thriller - 83.

Beyond that....???

Do we really want to discuss State of Shock (feat Mick Jagger - originally with Freddy Mercury) and the Victory album? No. No we don't.

  

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mistermaxxx08
Member since Dec 31st 2010
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Fri Feb-17-12 09:41 PM

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89. "dude Please, you don't know Michael Joe jackson and his impact"
In response to Reply # 79


          

ain't but really maybe 25-50 acts tops in the history of Pop music got let alone 1 classic let alone 2 classics.

that word is thrown around a whole lot like genius, let me tell you something after "off the wall and thriller what else did Michael Jackson really have to do again as a Artist? please do tell??

i mean when you make an artistic statement and he totally flipped his thing from his days as a kid act on Motown.

you see you sound like those half baked turkeys who either write for rolling stone or ain't understood what an impact truly meant and you don't need to make 99 albums or Produce all of the music.

FYI MJ was a Producer alongside Quincy Jones, and FYI most of the Big songs on Off the wall and thriller were from MJ.

its cool if you are self contained, however it doesn't make it all better. and FYI you still gotta deal with the record label saying that track works and that one doesn't etc..


interesting story about Prince when he turned in Purple rain for the film, the director said oh that is cool what you got, but where is the money track? and then Prince brought out "When doves cry". you gotta have the songs.

Prince had hits but it wasn't like he had a decade run. more like a good 5-6 year run of his Prime and Peak.

ain't nobody but die hARDS Sweating over his 90's til now stuff.

MJ with dangerous and History was better than prince's run over the past 20 plus years and that ain't saying a whole lot because MJ settled for scraps but he still could bring a hit.

MJ is far more impressive because not only did he learn from Berry Gordy, but then to Gamble and Huff to Quincy Jones. that is heavy weight stuff there and that is growth and a Artistic statement.

mighty funny Gordy, Gamble and Huff and Quincy Jones worked with a whole of Male Artists, but no one else matched what MJ did,now explain that away?

Prince is a Smart Hybrid cat and he had the right ears and eyes around him at the right time. he got over at the right time and he connected.

however to me MJ got it right far more often and he took chances.

ain't no way in the world 30-35 years ago would any head of a record company would have green lighted Michael Jackson working with Quincy Jones. if it didn't work they would have been the two biggest jokes on the musical planet.

that was a risk if there ever was one and alot of people laughed at MJ, but MJ always was one step around the corner.

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

  

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Artful Dodger
Member since Nov 20th 2009
8361 posts
Sat Feb-18-12 08:26 AM

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93. "ya know these are some good points - cannot lie"
In response to Reply # 89
Sat Feb-18-12 08:34 AM by Artful Dodger

          

the gamble and huff connection (in terms of music)
Quincy Jones

and Barry Gordy in terms of being shrewd crook with the business.

It's no question that Mj's impact will live on forever - I mean just look at the clones he had during his day and now? However 2 amazing albums - no 2 standards - one R&B and one Pop is without question a monumental achievement.

However you have to ask yourself - did he suffer as a result?

The soul music you get from Mj from Destiny to Triumph to Off the Wall to Thriller - is gone by Bad. It simply was, it was no longer a question of an R&B male - he was a full blown pop star from there moving forward and his music was on par with whatever the pop standard was at the time. Did he take risks? Of course - but two albums do not define a career - if that were the case you would be in here defending D'angelo - not goin in on him.

Mind you - they are THEE two most important albums in modern pop and R&B - but Prince created his OWN sound. Mj has his OWN vocal arrangements and style of writing - but he NEVER had his own sound.
He was unpredictable like that.

P on the other hand had his own sound and reinvented his own sound over and over again. Whether that's 5 years or ten solid ones as most critics will tell you - its not to be fucked with.

Thats not purple kool-aid cause I wasn't suggesting his 90s output had the same effect as his 80s output - or that his recent outputs were on par with PR... but they had fantastic moments.

Now what i find interesting is his biggest hits of the 90s diamonds and pearls and the most beautiful girl in the world - I hate, but you may love cause of their success. Feel me? However just cause you dont feel prince you cant write off albums like Emancipation.
That's more than just a Prince fan album and so is lotus Flower actually.

Also if we are using the 2 album marker to define a career and using sales to determine relevance, guess what? P wins again.

Diamonds and Pearls (Plat)
The Symbol Album (Gold)
The Gold Album (Gold)
Emancipation (Platinum)

I could go on and on. Although to me that would be pointless cause sales don't determine good work. It just doesn't. Some of my favorite artists have never gone gold or even half of whatever gold is by todays standards.



However that part of the convo does come down to personal taste.

  

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murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
23113 posts
Sat Feb-18-12 08:44 AM

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96. "RE: ya know these are some good points - cannot lie"
In response to Reply # 93


          


>I could go on and on. Although to me that would be pointless
>cause sales don't determine good work. It just doesn't. Some
>of my favorite artists have never gone gold or even half of
>whatever gold is by todays standards.


This^^^paragraph is the money quote...It's all that needs to be said...

I mean R Kelly just released one of his best albums in years (2010's Love Letter) and it's still not even gold...

Should we shit on Kells because he didn't go platinum? Nope...Should we shit on him because he's no longer getting played on the younger "current" radio stations and is getting most of his play on the older skewed radio stations? Nope

But according to brother Maxx, we should when it comes to other artists...

Irony, no?

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

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Artful Dodger
Member since Nov 20th 2009
8361 posts
Sat Feb-18-12 08:49 AM

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97. "Basically - I mean I won't lie Rkellys throwback album"
In response to Reply # 96
Sat Feb-18-12 08:53 AM by Artful Dodger

          

with the exception of that Mj cover and maybe one other pro pop song - was really incredible.

Def on par with Raphaels and Amy Whinehouse's and was overlooked.
Now why cats are even going that direction to begin with is some silly shit to me - but hey - it sounded great.

Kelly in particular cause I heard he even redesigned his studio with older equipment and everything. If that's true that's just amazing.

However you are right - hes being played now alongside Freddy Jackson so huh... lol

But ya know Maxx - if you are reading this will you please address my "Rkelly sliding around the studio like a snake" comment. And I mean that literally not symbolically from the interview he did with Vibe magazine a few years go?

Ya know - where he had his staff put dirt in the studio and stuffed animals cause he wanted to feel like he was in the motherland for that "wind ya body" song? or something like that? I know thats side-stepping the convo a bit but do you remember that?

  

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mistermaxxx08
Member since Dec 31st 2010
16076 posts
Sat Feb-18-12 11:04 AM

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102. "RE: Basically - I mean I won't lie Rkellys throwback album"
In response to Reply # 97


          

R.kelly ain't slowed down, 2 straight decades and he ain't stopped still making artistic statements and got numbers as well.

remember number 1 R&B artist over the past 25 years. he has put in the work and this year is gonna be good for him again.

"Slow wind" is the song you are talking about the long version and yes there is a long version of it, is something else but i don't know if it will ever see the light of day.

R.Kelly is the baddest cat doing it musically right now bar none IMO.

just you wait and hear.

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

  

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mistermaxxx08
Member since Dec 31st 2010
16076 posts
Sat Feb-18-12 10:45 AM

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100. "well murph FYI Love Letter is gold check your facts and figures "
In response to Reply # 96


          

it went gold last year as a matter of fact sold 500 hundred thousand plus.

and its rising again as we speak though that is in part because of his concert on centric for the love letter tour and also his new lead off single from te album "write me back" is moving up the charts.

yeah Chicago's true Greatest Artist Ever and it ain't even close.

Kellz still holding things down.

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

  

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murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
23113 posts
Sat Feb-18-12 11:49 AM

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103. "RE: well murph FYI Love Letter is gold check your facts and figures "
In response to Reply # 100
Sat Feb-18-12 11:51 AM by murph71

          

>it went gold last year as a matter of fact sold 500 hundred
>thousand plus.

>
>and its rising again as we speak though that is in part
>because of his concert on centric for the love letter tour and
>also his new lead off single from te album "write me back" is
>moving up the charts.
>
>yeah Chicago's true Greatest Artist Ever and it ain't even
>close.
>
>Kellz still holding things down.


But that's my point...(BTW, you are right...it went gold in March of 2011)...we are talking about an artist who was used to going 4 times platinum...Now he's creeped to gold...

And u know what? It shouldn't matter...

If the music is good, then it's good...

All to say the very same way you wrap yourself in record sales to boost certain acts and to downgrade others, it can be done to your own beloved acts...

Kells is now considered an older act...He's no longer getting played on the young stations...So using the "hotness" of an artist is silly...

Kells greatness lies in his talent and impact on R&B...Not on "holding things down"...

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

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mistermaxxx08
Member since Dec 31st 2010
16076 posts
Sat Feb-18-12 11:01 AM

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101. "we are all bias but yours is scary and to the point of laughable"
In response to Reply # 93


          

>the gamble and huff connection (in terms of music)
>Quincy Jones
>
>and Barry Gordy in terms of being shrewd crook with the
>business.
>
>It's no question that Mj's impact will live on forever - I
>mean just look at the clones he had during his day and now?
>However 2 amazing albums - no 2 standards - one R&B and one
>Pop is without question a monumental achievement.
>
>However you have to ask yourself - did he suffer as a result?
>
>The soul music you get from Mj from Destiny to Triumph to Off
>the Wall to Thriller - is gone by Bad. It simply was, it was
>no longer a question of an R&B male - he was a full blown pop
>star from there moving forward and his music was on par with
>whatever the pop standard was at the time. Did he take risks?
> Of course - but two albums do not define a career - if that
>were the case you would be in here defending D'angelo - not
>goin in on him.
>
>Mind you - they are THEE two most important albums in modern
>pop and R&B - but Prince created his OWN sound. Mj has his
>OWN vocal arrangements and style of writing - but he NEVER had
>his own sound.
>He was unpredictable like that.
>
>P on the other hand had his own sound and reinvented his own
>sound over and over again. Whether that's 5 years or ten
>solid ones as most critics will tell you - its not to be
>fucked with.
>
>Thats not purple kool-aid cause I wasn't suggesting his 90s
>output had the same effect as his 80s output - or that his
>recent outputs were on par with PR... but they had fantastic
>moments.
>
>Now what i find interesting is his biggest hits of the 90s
>diamonds and pearls and the most beautiful girl in the world -
>I hate, but you may love cause of their success. Feel me?
>However just cause you dont feel prince you cant write off
>albums like Emancipation.
>That's more than just a Prince fan album and so is lotus
>Flower actually.
>
>Also if we are using the 2 album marker to define a career and
>using sales to determine relevance, guess what? P wins
>again.
>
>Diamonds and Pearls (Plat)
>The Symbol Album (Gold)
>The Gold Album (Gold)
>Emancipation (Platinum)
>
>I could go on and on. Although to me that would be pointless
>cause sales don't determine good work. It just doesn't. Some
>of my favorite artists have never gone gold or even half of
>whatever gold is by todays standards.
>
>
>
>However that part of the convo does come down to personal
>taste.


MJ's two huge game changing albums flipped the script completely please don't ever insult Michael Joe Jackson and bring up D'angelo. that is just beyond crazy. D'angelo's little ole two albums might be debateable with MJ's Dangerous or later Invincible, but not with Prime time MJ. 1)

you obviously ain't a music historian or know about the impact of a off the wall or a thriller with those statements you are saying, because those albums are the cornerstone of modern day R&B/Pop Music period. they are like the equal to the Godfather 1 and 2 if you will. classic albums which says you never have to do anything else ever again period. a classic statement is like winning a championship in sports and if you do it more than once well you are in rare company. MJ was always in rare company.

even if he didn't have much of a adult career his impact with the Jackson 5 alone would have made him a legend because he was singing classic material and he was always a great showman with a great talent. i can't turkeys who short change the obvious. and also have no idea about the subject they are attempting to speak on. 2)

the Genius of Michael Jackson is that Oh, he did have his own sound, his vocal instrument left no doubt who he was. as talented as Prince is and how he used his sound, he was also cripple by it. when Prince tried to up date his sound and whatnot, he was never able to move on. MJ though could take your thing and make it his own. despite Prince being a better rounded instrumentalist, he also has suffered from his own limitations because he simply is a stronger hybrid than being as well rounded as MJ was with moving on to different styles and sounds. Unpreditcable is why folks kept checking for MJ and pretty much left Prince in the 80's. 3)


Prince himself would tell you he was something else in the 80's and the other stuff he had some hits, but they ain't memorable like his 80's run. stop kidding yourself. 4)

diamonds and pearls was cool because of Rosie gaines's vocals, not because of Prince. Prince was chasing Babyface with that and also with the Most beautiful girl in the world.

and emcanciapation was Prince trying to sound modern and those cover versions sucked and stunk as well. Emancipation was too long and boring IMO.

MJ's dangerous was better than those four Prince albums you mentioned combined and it ain't even close.

aside from a few songs here and there, i don't care for any Prince albums over the past 23 years straight. not interested at all. i find his studio output after really 87 to be boring and pandering and dull. over produced and under written songs. 5)

the last Prince album that actually sold anything really was "diamonds and pearls" and that album felt corny IMO.

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

  

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Artful Dodger
Member since Nov 20th 2009
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Sat Feb-18-12 12:07 PM

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104. "hahaha - you just rewrote exacty what I said"
In response to Reply # 101


          

and then questioned if I knew music history?

Did I just not say Off the Wall and Thriller were the two most important albums in modern R&b and Pop?

R&b - the standard is Off the Wall

Pop - the standard is Thriller.

I never once questioned Mj, his talent or his impact.

I just pointed out - clearly - that after 83 Mj went to the pop chart tarts not to return until Remember the time.

I mean I love Mike but let's be real - he went Disney for a minute, it was good Disney, great Disney even - but still.

  

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mistermaxxx08
Member since Dec 31st 2010
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109. "when you flip the script and create two classic albums"
In response to Reply # 104


          

you can MR.Bojangles if you elect to what does that have to do with the price of Cotton candy at Coney Island again?

MJ was and set a standard period.

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

  

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BlackandProud
Member since Feb 08th 2012
181 posts
Wed Feb-15-12 02:56 PM

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45. "I co sign to the fullest!"
In response to Reply # 15


          

  

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Warren Coolidge
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40. "I know I'm in the minority.... but I thought The Flag was a solid album"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

I know it may have been full of cuts that were throw away cuts for Rick, but there were some solid songs on there.... Painted Pictures, Forever and a day, Slow and easy to name a few..


I've been meaning to make a post called Post Prime Funk talking about albums like this that had some quality songs but that are generally looked at as being from artists who were past their prime time..

  

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Artful Dodger
Member since Nov 20th 2009
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43. "No I'm with you I even like Freak Flag "
In response to Reply # 40


          

I'm totally with you.

  

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mistermaxxx08
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55. "the flag had Maceo Parker on there amongest others "
In response to Reply # 40


          

Rick was bringing Back R&B acts left and right on his albums and projects always looking and giving back.

the flag was hit and miss, however his social commentary was no joke on that album. that got slept on.

matter of fact Rick always had poltical themes on his projects, but the flag had even more when you listen to it.

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

  

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Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
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16. "I wish the Stone City Band's albums could go back into print"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

it was hard to separate them from Rick himself sometimes (to the point you wonder if it was just Rick's ideas with someone else singing) but those dudes really did put in work on his core albums... that sound wouldn't have happened without their input.

  

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Artful Dodger
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17. "their talent yes - their sound no. All Rick."
In response to Reply # 16


          

I mean he produced those albums if I'm correct and largely their talents just embellished his original workings. He even says this that he would lay down demo tracks and once they got their hands on em they would take it to the next level.

  

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mistermaxxx08
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22. "his Boy from the Buffalo Levi Ruffin on keys had a sound"
In response to Reply # 16


          

on the keys. Levi and Danny lemelle on sax and Oscar Alston on bass were his main side kicks on projects.

Alston did most of the bass parts on rick's albums and the stone city band projects and Bobby Nunn was Rick's keyboard player,Nunn co wrote "Mary Jane" with Rick.

they were very instrumental because they were top notch musicians, however rick knew how to arrange and produce and he also knew what worked as far melody and Hook so those two worlds complimented one another very nicely.

the original stone city band stil tours.

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

  

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Artful Dodger
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28. "man thank you for putting names with the faces cause I have always"
In response to Reply # 22


          

wondered about those cats. yeah Rick praised them in his 88 interview with the BBC - he even undersold his own talent suggesting he was an 'ok' guitarist and bassist but "Stone City? Whew"... hahaha.. he's right.

As a bandleader, songwriter, and producer - Rick was peerless.

  

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slyde
Member since May 30th 2008
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115. "Bobby Nunn is one of my fave artists"
In response to Reply # 28
Sun Feb-19-12 10:03 AM by slyde

  

          

His "Private Party" album was when my funk collection started to take off. I wore that joint out. It's interesting and a surprise to read that he co-wrote for Slick's "Mary Jane", although Bobby's name is not archived in ASCAP's database:

http://www.ascap.com/ace/search.cfm?requesttimeout=300&mode=results&searchstr=430271548&search_in=i&search_type=exact&search_det=t,s,w,p,b,v&results_pp=10&start=1

  

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Artful Dodger
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116. "Yep and that is not the first time Rick has that problem"
In response to Reply # 115


          

He had similar issues with the Mary Jane girls.

  

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slyde
Member since May 30th 2008
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127. "RE: Yep and that is not the first time Rick has that problem"
In response to Reply # 116
Sun Feb-19-12 05:25 PM by slyde

  

          

>He had similar issues with the Mary Jane girls.
>


Yeah, read about some issues with them in his bio which i still have to finish

  

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Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
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133. "I kind of wish those records would get a proper reissue"
In response to Reply # 115


  

          

>His "Private Party" album was when my funk collection started
>to take off. I wore that joint out. It's interesting and a
>surprise to read that he co-wrote for Slick's "Mary Jane",
>although Bobby's name is not archived in ASCAP's database:

the first one still had that Rick James influence (w/"She's Just A Groupie", which I think still had Rick), but PRIVATE PARTY was more his own thing... and it was kind of a funny album. Tata Vega playing his angry mother one one of those songs, LOL

  

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slyde
Member since May 30th 2008
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135. "RE: I kind of wish those records would get a proper reissue"
In response to Reply # 133


  

          

>"...the first one still had that Rick James influence (w/"She's Just A Groupie", which I think still had Rick), but PRIVATE PARTY was more his own thing... and it was kind of a funny album. Tata Vega playing his angry mother one one of those songs, LOL..."

Yeah, Tata is a trip, reprimanding Bobby for sneaking to the mall ( "Bobbaaayyyy!... Bobby Roberto, caramba, ay gnow you are there!" )

Hahaaaa!

Private Party is reissued btw

http://www.amazon.com/Private-Party-Bobby-Nunn/dp/B0012OVEOO/ref=sr_1_2?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1329746795&sr=1-2

  

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Warren Coolidge
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46. "Rick James Radio on Live 365.com"
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Feb-15-12 05:04 PM by Warren Coolidge

  

          

www.live365.com/stations/rickjames

For those who use live 365.... Rick James Radio is pretty banging...they keep in regular rotation on there tracks from a few Live Rick boots...including a couple that I haven't come across anywhere else.....pretty funky stuff.

  

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Record Playa
Member since Apr 29th 2007
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Wed Feb-15-12 11:27 PM

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50. "was/is anbody else, still into the Deeper Still album?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


Tilt - Arcade Funk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPtLcEoyxKY

  

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mistermaxxx08
Member since Dec 31st 2010
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51. "i bought my copy back in 07."
In response to Reply # 50


          

it had some cuts. i actual had the demo of the album for about 4 years prior to it.

i had it sent to me. "just a taste of love" had been on it.

Rick had the album done for a good while and was looking to get it put out.

it was decent, not touching Urban rapisody but still decent though and he had Bryan Loren on the Keys.

Loren played Rick's written and produced track for Mariah carey off the glitter soundtrack "all my love" and that track sounds like vintage teena marie 79-81 Rick produced.

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

  

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ninjitsu
Member since Oct 07th 2011
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Fri Feb-17-12 10:21 AM

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63. "it's funny how there can't be a rick james post"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

without talking about prince.

  

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murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
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Fri Feb-17-12 10:23 AM

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64. "RE: it's funny how there can't be a rick james post"
In response to Reply # 63


          

>without talking about prince.


Hmmmm......

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

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Artful Dodger
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66. "Actually it's how it started in another post. "
In response to Reply # 63
Fri Feb-17-12 11:37 AM by Artful Dodger

          

@ Murph - right... exactly. lol. smh.

  

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
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Fri Feb-17-12 02:40 PM

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80. "Pretty much."
In response to Reply # 63


  

          

And how are you gonna have "an honest and objective conversation" about dude by starting with an OP that is probably one of the more impressive fellatings of an artist in The Lesson?

_________________________________________________________________________
Baby, I'm your carpenter, please let me lay your tile

  

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Artful Dodger
Member since Nov 20th 2009
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82. "And yet it still happened"
In response to Reply # 80


          

  

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OldPro
Member since Dec 10th 2002
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Fri Feb-17-12 11:09 AM

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67. "It's because greats are compared to other greats"
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Feb-17-12 11:10 AM by OldPro

  

          

they are peers from the same era... simple as that

*edit*

Meant to reply to ninjitsu post (#63)
_________________________________
Reunion Radio Podcasts
Bringing Together Five Decades of R&B/Funk/Soul/Dance

http://reunionradio.blogspot.com/

  

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Artful Dodger
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68. "Exactly. "
In response to Reply # 67
Fri Feb-17-12 11:13 AM by Artful Dodger

          

Yeah I caught that.

man I'm gonna petition you leaving - that just cannot happen. lol.

  

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
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98. "Not on here, they aren't"
In response to Reply # 67


  

          

People here can't post about Rick James without rising up to talk about how "wack"/"corny"/"not black" Prince was in comparison

And I ain't just talking about maxx either

________________________________________________________________________
Baby, I'm your carpenter, please let me lay your tile

  

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Artful Dodger
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105. "Right that's true. I even heard cats in the barbershop go in "
In response to Reply # 98


          

on Prince versus Rick.

What was ill tho is they were lying saying those cats came to blows but I think they were confusing his supposed beef with Miko Weaver which is partially caught on film during the Lovesexy rehearsals I think.

But yeah they married at the hip for some reason - it's fucked up cause why we always gotta put one against the other and not just love and appreciate them both is just ridiculous.

  

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b.Touch
Member since Jun 28th 2011
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Fri Feb-17-12 08:51 PM

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84. "He's not actually related to Melvin Franklin."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Melvin also told folks he was kin to David Ruffin and Richard Street (also later a Temptation).

Also, "Standing on the Top" comes from a whole album's worth of records with seven Temptations...and the total number of Temptations is far in excess of seven.

  

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Thanes1975
Member since Aug 03rd 2011
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Fri Feb-17-12 09:23 PM

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86. "RE: He's not actually related to Melvin Franklin."
In response to Reply # 84


  

          

best post in a while...great info in this one...

peace

"Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds."-Albert Einstein

http://twitter.com/#!/TonyHanesPoetry

  

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Artful Dodger
Member since Nov 20th 2009
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95. "Yeah it is"
In response to Reply # 86


          

folks really gave up some good info.

  

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Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
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88. "Tell me about the latter of the two things you've mentioned here"
In response to Reply # 84


  

          

>Also, "Standing on the Top" comes from a whole album's worth
>of records with seven Temptations...and the total number of
>Temptations is far in excess of seven.

are you talking about the Reunion album?
I remember hearing that song and it being a real big deal. Love the video for it, too.

  

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b.Touch
Member since Jun 28th 2011
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Sat Feb-18-12 02:01 AM

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90. "Yeah, I have "Reunion". It's okay."
In response to Reply # 88


  

          

About par for the course for an early 1980s Temptations album - not very exciting.

The full 9 minute version of "Standing on the Top" is nice tho.

  

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Artful Dodger
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Sat Feb-18-12 08:16 AM

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92. "Then you have seen the video with All 7 Tempts?"
In response to Reply # 90
Sat Feb-18-12 08:58 AM by Artful Dodger

          

and Rick.

Also those weren't my quotes - those were Rick's.

So unless Rick is lying... I dunno bro...

you are absolutely dead on about Melvin tho.

I got footage of him calling Marvin, Michael and his drummer his 'blood' and 'cousins' and family. lol.

However if you watch the DVD "I'm Rick James The Definitive DVD"

They point out that they were indeed related by blood and that Rick tried to use this to his advantage when trying to get his band with Neil Young signed to Motown - but Melvin didn't help him.

They also point out the part about the 7 Tempts and how proud Rick was to achieve this - I think there is even an excerpt where he says this himself (his audio recording from an interview) but I'll have to watch it again.

So hey I dunno lol

  

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b.Touch
Member since Jun 28th 2011
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107. "What exactly did he achieve tho?"
In response to Reply # 92


  

          

The reunion was set up by the label - and was a complete pain in everyone's ass that was involved (and it's not "all 7 Tempts" - it's the five who were in the group at the time plus David Ruffin & Eddie Kendricks. The Tempts had already shed five other members in addition to Ruffin and Kendricks, two of whom were deceased)

Him producing that single was a foregone conclusion - he was one of Motown's hottests acts at the time, and he was assigned by Berry Gordy to do the record. He didn't reunite the remaining members of the "Classic 5" Temptations lineup, if that is what he is trying to imply.

Like every other Tempts record of this period, it did fine on the R&B charts but failed to crack the pop Top 40.

As for Rick James' relation to Melvin Franklin, Otis Williams says they're not blood related (I've heard both "cousin" and "nephew") in the latest Temptations book. James and Franklin don't share the same last name (Johnson and English, respectively, are their real last names), and Franklin (as far as I can determine) was an only child, so if James is really a nephew, he'd have to be blood-related to his wife. "Cousin" would be more plausible.

  

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Artful Dodger
Member since Nov 20th 2009
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119. "You gotta take that up with rick james bro - again - his words"
In response to Reply # 107
Sun Feb-19-12 04:31 PM by Artful Dodger

          

all of it. Your entire rebuttal.

The only point he might have made was at that point - all 7 tempts.

Are you factoring in Tempts after that album?

I dunno - but those are Ricks words right or wrong but i do appreciate the insight - especially on the album being difficult to make, that's interesting for many reasons. Share some examples - beyond coke, bad management, money, egos and women - what could there be. lol. creative differences? lol

share if you can b.

in terms of achievement wasnt that the tempts last dance hit?

  

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b.Touch
Member since Jun 28th 2011
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Mon Feb-20-12 02:38 AM

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128. "RE: You gotta take that up with rick james bro - again - his words"
In response to Reply # 119


  

          

>all of it. Your entire rebuttal.
>
>The only point he might have made was at that point - all 7
>tempts.
>
>Are you factoring in Tempts after that album?

I'm not sure what you're asking. I'm just saying that "all seven Tempts" is a misstatement.

As of the time of Reunion, The Temptations had been through eight personnel changes. There had been 12 total members, and at the time of "Reunion" the Temps were Dennis Edwards, Otis Williams, Melvin Franklin, Glenn Leonard, and Richard Street. Eddie Kendricks and David Ruffin were brought back for the "Reunion" album & tour (because the idea was thought to be a big moneymaker - it ended up being a headache) - not participating were ousted Tempts Damon Harris, Louis Price, and Ricky Owens - who may not count b/c he was only a Tempt for 3 weeks. Paul Williams and Al Bryant were of course dead.

That's why "all 7 Tempts" is a misstatement - there were more than 7 surviving Temptations at the time, and it was not Rick james' duty or task to reunite them - he just got to do the single for them.



>
>I dunno - but those are Ricks words right or wrong but i do
>appreciate the insight - especially on the album being
>difficult to make, that's interesting for many reasons. Share
>some examples - beyond coke, bad management, money, egos and
>women - what could there be. lol. creative differences? lol
>
>share if you can b.

Let's see:

Eddie Kendricks hated Otis & Melvin.
David Ruffin was still on drugs.
Dennis Edwards was getting on drugs.
Eddie's voice was shot b/c of the beginnings of lung cancer - a lot of overdubbing of him and the Tempts' then current falsetto Glenn Leonard was used to mask this on record.

The actual Reunion tour itself was more of a pain, b/c you couldn't mask how bad Eddie sounded live and Ruffin missed several shows (the Temptations were docked if all 7 participating in the tour were not present)

>

>in terms of achievement wasnt that the tempts last dance hit?

No, "Treat Her Like a Lady" was.

  

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Artful Dodger
Member since Nov 20th 2009
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Mon Feb-20-12 05:07 AM

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130. "ah treat her like a lady - that's right"
In response to Reply # 128


          

ya know it doesnt shock me that it was a misstatement cause rick also claims to be the first to bring synths to funk - not true at all when you think of Bernie and Sly. Little things like that could just be ego or true blue mistakes.

Wow man, that reunion. I had no idea about Eddie. Dennis looks lit in the video. lol Thanks for that info - just crazy.

  

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mistermaxxx08
Member since Dec 31st 2010
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Mon Feb-20-12 05:16 AM

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131. "bottom line Rick James hook those Brothers up"
In response to Reply # 128


          

and I ain't gonna stand for some corny turkey trying to throw a diss at Rick James over the original 7 temps or not.

it worked because it was a modern day hit period and Rick was a huge superstar back then and he gave back.

he had the temps singing background on "superfreak" and also they did work for Teena Marie courtesy of RJ.

the Brother gave back and now this back stabbing trying to throw shade at RJ? is just wrong.

standing on the top was a hit for them pure and simple.

then in 83 Ollie woodson and earth,Wind and fire's ralph johnson co wrote "treat her like a lady" which was a hit as well.

the temps wanted a comtempary hit and they got and as a matter of fact they have always worked with somebody comtempary at doing there thing.

it was Great personally seeing Rick James giving back and reaching back.

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

  

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Artful Dodger
Member since Nov 20th 2009
8361 posts
Mon Feb-20-12 05:54 AM

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132. "yep exactly cause even if standing on the top wasn't the last"
In response to Reply # 131


          

big hit for them - it was the first in many years for them as they were headed to noveltyville. Rick got them back on track.

  

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b.Touch
Member since Jun 28th 2011
20514 posts
Sun May-13-12 06:01 PM

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142. "no one's "throwing shade" at Rick James."
In response to Reply # 131


  

          

He did a great job producing that song.

However, he did not "reunite" "all 7 Temptations". The 7 Temptations that are on that damn record were reunited and renegotiated by Motown before Rick James was brought in to write the record. That is all I'm saying.

  

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Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
131957 posts
Mon Feb-20-12 08:12 AM

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134. "that I think was why it was a big deal"
In response to Reply # 128


  

          

>Eddie Kendricks and David Ruffin were brought back for the
>"Reunion" album & tour (because the idea was thought to be a
>big moneymaker - it ended up being a headache) - not
>participating were ousted Tempts Damon Harris, Louis Price,
>and Ricky Owens - who may not count b/c he was only a Tempt
>for 3 weeks. Paul Williams and Al Bryant were of course dead.

because Kendricks and Ruffin were back. It really didn't ever feel like the Tempts w/o those two to me. I think just seeing that as a kid kind of tied things together for me... because I knew of the group very lightly through certain songs that were still very much part of the "conversation" through their use in films, commercials, TV appearances, etc.

So when I hear "Standing on the Top", and sometime later, saw that video it was probably the coolest thing ever, LOL

someone of Rick's stature giving "back" like that was a huge deal too.

Yes, I'm mad. Let's move on.

Jays | Cavs | Eagles | Sabres | Tarheels

PSN: Dr_Claw_77 | XBL: Dr Claw 077 | FB: drclaw077 | T: @drclaw77 | http://thepeoplesvault.wordpress.com

  

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Artful Dodger
Member since Nov 20th 2009
8361 posts
Mon Feb-20-12 11:52 AM

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136. "yep my uncle says the same thing"
In response to Reply # 134


          

that at that point no one was checking for them
their sound no longer effecive alongside this new thing called 12inch dance records. It wasn't about bandstand, it was about the clubs and rick (utilizing them and Melvin - whom he said was blood fam on his moms side) put them dead smack in the center when he didn't have to.

  

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b.Touch
Member since Jun 28th 2011
20514 posts
Sun May-13-12 06:04 PM

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143. "Again, Melvin said _everyone_ he liked was blood family."
In response to Reply # 136
Sun May-13-12 06:05 PM by b.Touch

  

          

(and it would have HAD to have been on his mother's side because Melvin's father was the church pastor, who wasn't in his life because he raped his mother and got her pregnant).

If someone wants to go through the trouble of digging through ancestry.com to see if David English and James Johnson are actually related, be my guest.

  

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b.Touch
Member since Jun 28th 2011
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Sun May-13-12 06:13 PM

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144. "I feel like the Tempts did just fine without Ruffin, but not Kendricks."
In response to Reply # 134


  

          

While David Ruffin is more or less irreplaceable, the group found a way to replace him by entirely changing their sound.

With Kendricks, however, the group chose to hire second and third rate mimics rather than find someone who also had a unique falsetto (like a Russell Thompkins Jr. or old boy from The Delfonics). They didn't replace Ruffin with a mimic, so why would they think replacing Kendricks with mimics (no offense to Damon Harris and Glenn Leonard, but let's call a spade a spade) would work?

Even despite that, the reasons the Tempts didn't last long without Kendricks are several:

1. Losing Kendricks' behind-the-scenes efforts (the vocal arrangements and costume design) was almost as important as losing him as a lead. So was losing Paul Williams as choreographer and the "spirit" of the group

2. Without a decent and consistent relationship with a great songwriting team (because Barrett Strong walked out the door right after Kendricks and Williams), the group was resigned to second rate material. Meanwhile, you have the mighty mighty O'Jays over at Philadelphia International turning out monster hits.

3. By the mid-1970s, the Temptations were relics. They were in their mid-30s and had been on the Top 40 charts more or less consistency for a decade. Falling off was only natural at that point for a group like theirs.

  

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Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
131957 posts
Sun May-13-12 06:47 PM

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146. "word, I can dig this"
In response to Reply # 144


  

          

>2. Without a decent and consistent relationship with a great
>songwriting team (because Barrett Strong walked out the door
>right after Kendricks and Williams), the group was resigned to
>second rate material. Meanwhile, you have the mighty mighty
>O'Jays over at Philadelphia International turning out monster
>hits.

and I felt like the O'Jays picked up where they fell off as well.

  

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BlackandProud
Member since Feb 08th 2012
181 posts
Sun Feb-19-12 03:18 AM

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110. "I really need to get Rick James' book. "
In response to Reply # 0


          

I still ain't got around to checking it out and reading it.

  

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Artful Dodger
Member since Nov 20th 2009
8361 posts
Sun Feb-19-12 04:24 PM

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120. "Man his life was movie unto itself - real rockstar shit"
In response to Reply # 110


          

  

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BlackandProud
Member since Feb 08th 2012
181 posts
Mon Feb-20-12 02:39 AM

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129. "Oh I can believe it. "
In response to Reply # 120


          

Rick seemed to always kept it real.

  

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Artful Dodger
Member since Nov 20th 2009
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Mon Feb-20-12 11:56 AM

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137. "man between Rick, Rich, Redd, Miles, Marvin and Iggy"
In response to Reply # 129


          

i'm gone be fucked up in the game lol

  

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Calico
Charter member
24604 posts
Mon Feb-20-12 12:35 PM

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138. "Fuck it, since the post is still here, i got a question"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

...is "Give it to me baby" about rape? i love the song, but those rapey undertones in the lyrics always give me pause....

"yes, sometimes my rhymes are sexist, but you lovely bitches and hos should know i'm tryin to correct it"- hiphopopotamus

  

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Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
131957 posts
Mon Feb-20-12 12:44 PM

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139. "it wasn't about that"
In response to Reply # 138


  

          

>...is "Give it to me baby" about rape? i love the song, but
>those rapey undertones in the lyrics always give me pause....

I think Rick explained it once -- it was about coming home to your girl intoxicated. I can't remember if that's the one where he dropped an undercover reference to quaaludes (might have been "Super Freak")

  

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mistermaxxx08
Member since Dec 31st 2010
16076 posts
Mon Feb-20-12 09:07 PM

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140. "give it to me baby is about being so high that you can't perform"
In response to Reply # 138


          

he talked about it in a interview. his mind wants it, however his body isn't allowing him to do anything.

veyr vulnerable track just like super freak which is comical considering how he carried himself.

he flipped the script on his own vulnerability.

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

  

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Artful Dodger
Member since Nov 20th 2009
8361 posts
Tue Feb-21-12 06:50 AM

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141. "Maxx really educated us in this post - my respect has skyrocketed"
In response to Reply # 140


          

thanks man. You have dropped gems all thru this post bro - much respect.

  

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smoothcriminal12
Member since Jan 07th 2012
405 posts
Sun May-13-12 06:37 PM

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145. "one of the GOAT"
In response to Reply # 0


          

tbh

  

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