The story trailer for this dropped yesterday:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7L_IH5r0AY

I've been waiting for this for years. The story in the first Horizon was one of the most captivating pieces of any media I've ever seen...I just replayed a full run-through of it (New Game+ mode) to prep for Forbidden West, and I'm still blown away by how deep the lore is in the world Guerilla created. Also the gameplay, graphics, and obviously, and feel hold up wonderfully 5 years after release. I bought my PS5 JUST to play Horizon Forbidden West on a new generation console.

If you're like me and even more interested in the story/lore than the gameplay, Random Side Quest is an outstanding channel to check out on YouTube...here's his breakdown on the story trailer, with some theories on what might be coming:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xTjXXU9ICE

My favorite combat system ever made and one of the few games I've played on its hardest difficulty because the challenge still feels fair.

When I first started Zero Dawn I was terrified of even just the Walkers and now I want nothing more than fighting three Fireclaws at the same time lol.

I'll admit I'm worried that the story won't be as compelling as Zero Dawn - I'm in the camp that groaned a little when a post-credit stinger implied a sequel - but having just finished Frozen Wilds for a second time and no impulse to not just speed through the main game now (it's kind of hilarious being level 53 and just meeting Sun-King Avad) for a quick refresher (it'd be my third playthrough) and try to get the Platinum (I somehow never got all allies in the final battle and just tonight got all the Blazing Suns in the hunting trials) I'm just so excited to see how they build on this game gameplay wise.

Plus, the stuff with Cyan and Hephaestus makes me realize that even if there's not a lot more to reveal about how this world came to be the way it was, we really don't know how most of the other AIs have been handling their time being worshipped as Gods or silently whittling away at their assigned tasks. I'll bet there's still a decent amount of history to dig up - I really hope so since I admittedly care very, very little about the tribal politics even if the tribes themselves are well realized.

I also think they got so much better at facial animation and cutscene editing just in the months between the game and DLC, I imagine this game will have the full Sony cinematic feel to it. And I'd forgotten how good the regular writing is, both logs and dialogue. It can be a little melodramatic sometimes but there's a huge amount of pathos and humor - I forgot how funny this game was! - too.

So, yeah. Haven't been counting the days like this since Red Dead 2.


-----

Oh, I also remembered finding this data piece the other day that I don't remember always being there but it was straight up called The Forbidden West and had some pretty interesting things to say about what this game might have in store:


"Deserts of palest white, others...color of fire...sweeps of blue sand...prairies of tall grass, each blade sharp enough to draw blood."

"At night, unknown animals...glowing eyes...colors of kites and fireworks."

"A lake 100 times the size of Daybrink...the water is...sickening."

""One spoke of drinkers of machine blood, lips and tongues stained, teeth replaced with metal...youths pale as ash, who hunt tirelessly into the night. Still another tribe///digging deep pits...unknowable reasons...another tribe...riding their thin dark boats."

Even forgoing the more specific details, I actually read this and got a little scared, lol. Is this gonna be a game about tribal and biological warfare this time around? Yikes!



~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

>When I first started Zero Dawn I was terrified of even just
>the Walkers and now I want nothing more than fighting three
>Fireclaws at the same time lol.

When I did my playthrough last week I went RIGHT back to the Walkers being terrifying. And I was playing just on Easy mode and with the shieldweaver armor (New Game+ with full loadout) so I had no reason to be worried about them. I got back into the hang of it after a couple hours of play - but there's no way I can get all the Blazing Suns in the hunting trials - my combat style is just straight button smash mode while you need strong technique and stealth ability to get all those Blazing Suns.

>but there's a huge amount of pathos and humor - I forgot how
>funny this game was! - too.

Just yesterday I was playing through the Redmaw quest at the Hunter's lodge. After you defeat Redmaw and Ahsis dies (the jerk Sunhawk before Talanah takes over as Sunhawk) there's a new text datapoint telling the story of Aloy and Talanah defeating Redmaw. The datapoint includes ethis about Redmaw killing Ahsis:

https://horizon.fandom.com/wiki/Record_of_Redmaw_2

"Alas, the wounds that Ahsis sustained were mortal (crushed internal organs, evidence of bowel failure) and he did not live to see Talanah take his place as Sunhawk."

I had the same concern about the story not being as compelling. But there's still a good amount of mystery - the biggest two questions that I have from the first game:

What caused the initial glitch in the swarm causing Faro to lose control? When Elisabet Sobeck gets Ted Faro to agree to the Zero Dawn plan, she threatens him with letting the generals and the world know the "true cause of the glitch:" The world already knew that Faro's company was at fault, they called it the "Faro Swarm". But her threat (and the fact that it worked with Ted) seems to indicate that he'd don't something even worse than push the machines for profit - there's something else in play there.

Second, what was the unidentified transmission that Gaia received, causing her subroutines (including Hades) to go rogue? That source would be the same as what Sylens called "your masters" when talked to Hades in the post-credit scene. Could end up being the crew from Far Zenith after waking from cryrosleep - if they faked the explosion of the Odyssey and the mission was actually successful, maybe they sent that transmission to have Hades wipe the world clean before coming back to take over? Could the person in the story trailer in silver be from that group?

If you aren't, that shit opens everything up.

that'll have you wanting to take on 3 fire claws at once.

First time I played the game I barely touched the slings, just didn’t feel right compared to the bow

Nowadays Blast sling is my best friend, at least until all the armor is popped off

~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

I found most people who play this game be tryna arrow everything to death. If you use the tools, Aloy will turn into the Predator real quick.

>I found most people who play this game be tryna arrow
>everything to death. If you use the tools, Aloy will turn into
>the Predator real quick.

On my first playthrough I definitely used traps because there's some machines where you HAVE to. But after that once I got the shield weaver armor it made me invincible enough that I can lay back and shoot different arrow types depending on the enemy, and when that's taking too long just run up on them with Sylens' lance and go to work.

I'll make it a goal over the next few weeks before Forbidden West to get all the Blazing Saddles without using the shield weaver armor so I can get my skills back up.

I started it but I can’t remember why I didn’t complete it. I’m definitely gonna get back into it though.

____________
Twitter & IG: @rulerofmyself
SC: rulerofmyself17

Yes! She's on the drugs. (c) BoHagon

Gotta play on PS4 for now, but whatever. Hyped for this

<-- Dave Thomas knows what's up...
__________________________

Jay: Look here homie, any nigga can get a hit record. This here is about respect.
Game: Like Gladys Knight.
Jay: Aretha Franklin.
Game: Word, I like her too.
Jay: Nigga...

I started playing this morning before work (have only seen the opening at this point) and my goodness is it beautiful. Can't wait to really dig in to it.

But I’ll wait and see how some it settles in.

Right now the one thing I can’t stop being impressed by is how much the dialogue interactions and general animation/voice acting has improved. Like it might represent a Witcher 3 level of shift in expectations for these optional chats. Everything is fully and specifically animated based on the conversation and tone of the voice actor, and it’s not all simple A/B mid/close like a Mass Effect (or the first game). There are even interjections from irrelevant people that just happen to be in the room or action going on in the background.

I wouldn’t quite describe it as like RDR2 because it doesn’t have all that emergent conversation that just emerges out of walking around, but when you’re locked into a conversation it’s legit wild how much work went into them compared to any other game.

~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

____________
Twitter & IG: @rulerofmyself
SC: rulerofmyself17

Yes! She's on the drugs. (c) BoHagon

Gameplay is great - clear improvements over HZD in terms of hunting and combat. And this is a much bigger game in terms of scope.

But THE STORY!!! This is my favorite new franchise of fictional media since…I can’t even remember.

Or perhaps my reflexes have dulled and I've gotten slower compared to when I played the first Horizon Zero Dawn game. I'm struggling quite a bit compared to when I played the first game. I'm at the second Tallneck area and I have to seriously put together a gameplan as to how I'm going to traverse it because of the surrounding enemies.

Also feels as if the map is larger than the first game, which makes sense since most sandbox type games make the playable spaces larger for sequels.

This is completely off tangent, but I wish Elden Ring didn't drop so close to this game since I want to spend some time with that game, but this has so much to offer, I'm going to have to put Elden Ring on the back burner for now.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

I went with story mode for my first playthrough. I definitely think it's more challenging than the first game - on story mode it feels like the one easy element is it takes a LOT to actually kill Aloy, but even on story mode it is HARD to defeat some of the enemies. Melee combat has a lot more control, with the ability to land combos and such, but still the enemies (both machines and humans) are much more challenging.

Also some of the puzzles are challenging to an annoying extent. Whether it's a maze or something to find, it feels pretty difficult. Also a bit uneven in terms of the hints - there are times when Aloy or an NPC will chime in with a hint way to quick before you have a chance to find it yourself, and other times when they ain't helping at all lol...

The game is HUGE in terms of all the side quests - it's going to take me a long time to complete all of them.

and I'm also doing as much side quests as I reasonably can so I can level up and because I don't want to miss anything and have to backtrack too heavily if I passed side missions up.

I'm also not using a grip of the available equipment (the slingshots and traps) as I mainly used the Bow and Arrow to beat the first Horizon Zero Dawn. I might have to rethink that strategy since I'm getting humbled on a regular basis by the machines this go round.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

I do like that the game settings are much more granular. It's harder to jump into, but you can tweak specific things to make the game harder or easier. Playing on normal I was also getting mopped by enemies that I thought I should be able to beat. For a while, I just played on normal for the story missions, and if I had to do any farming tweak the settings so it's not as tough to bring that Thunderjaw down and make sure I can loot everything, then switch back to normal as the story progresses. It's not ideal, but whatever...

<-- Dave Thomas knows what's up...
__________________________

Jay: Look here homie, any nigga can get a hit record. This here is about respect.
Game: Like Gladys Knight.
Jay: Aretha Franklin.
Game: Word, I like her too.
Jay: Nigga...

Huge game changer.

I also think the potion valor surge is the One True Valor especially once all the way upgraded as you take something like 1/4 the damage you used to, gain health back every couple seconds and it lasts longer than almost every encounter, it felt like 4 or 5 minutes at times lol

~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

And there are different sharpshooter bows for different purposes - knocking off machine parts, long distances, types of ammo depending on the machine you're fighting, etc.

>I also think the potion valor surge is the One True Valor
>especially once all the way upgraded as you take something
>like 1/4 the damage you used to, gain health back every couple
>seconds and it lasts longer than almost every encounter, it
>felt like 4 or 5 minutes at times lol

I always forget about using valor surges...

>Huge game changer.

That's a pretty useful tip. I forgot I used the long range Bow and Arrow to deal heavy damage in the first Horizon Zero Dawn game. Thanks for the reminder.


>I also think the potion valor surge is the One True Valor
>especially once all the way upgraded as you take something
>like 1/4 the damage you used to, gain health back every couple
>seconds and it lasts longer than almost every encounter, it
>felt like 4 or 5 minutes at times lol

I'll be completely honest in that I barely know how the Valor systems work in the game, but I'll look into it more since that buff sounds like it'll be necessary for the end of the game. Gaining back health over a period of time almost sounds like cheating, but I'll take it since this game is fairly difficult and I'm not near the end of the game yet.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

easily my favorite skill at this stage in the game

<-- Dave Thomas knows what's up...
__________________________

Jay: Look here homie, any nigga can get a hit record. This here is about respect.
Game: Like Gladys Knight.
Jay: Aretha Franklin.
Game: Word, I like her too.
Jay: Nigga...

to get through though. Story is amazing. The game is HUGE.

Either I'm right on the precipice of the final push or I'm only halfway through the game. And I've had this thought at two other points in the story already!


I'm level 38 and have done a lot of the side content, but I'm at a point where I feel like I need to just power through the main questline so I can avoid any spoilers...but the game doesn't seem designed for beelining through it at all. Like those companion catch ups, you can wind up in half hour long conversations if you haven't caught up with a certain person in a while and unfortunately they don't adapt to the state of the world the way quest conversations can so sometimes you're listening to some opinions on stuff that happened, like, 15 hours ago for you.


I will say I can't get out of my head the line from Polygon's review that Forbidden West is obsessed with "more". I feel engorged. Zero Dawn was one of the most focused open world games I'd ever played and this may be the least focused. I'm SHOCKED at how campy this game is willing to get, like this game is not afraid at all at making you roll your eyes at this or that twist in the story, big self-confidence energy from Guerilla that the gameplay and world building will pull you through some real BS.



~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

the main story line. That being said, I was FOCUSED on the main quests so I could avoid any spoilers. I completed the main story line while only getting to level 30 because I was barely doing any side quests at ALL. I'm sure the fact that I was playing on story mode enabled that.

I noticed the same thing about the companion catchups. It's also weird how they are typically ordered starting with the most recent stuff and then you have more dialogs available for stuff that happened hours ago.

I'll also mention that some of the reason I ignored side quests was it seemed like in the story itself, Aloy should be ignoring them. The world is bout to end and you have a time-sensitive plan to stop that, you don't have time to be taking salvage contracts or running errands for random villagers. The first game had that element also, but there's just a TON more in this game because it's so huge...

Unfortunately, I've stumbled upon one. Fortunately, it's for a side quest, so I'm assuming the glitch won't break the game in terms of impeding my ability to beat the game.

There's a side mission where killing three Glinthawks is necessary to progress the story. One of the three Glinthawks always gets stuck in a mountainside and as result, I can't kill it despite the fact I am able to get it's health down to zero. I've reset the area about three to four times and still get the same glitch.

Hopefully this will get patched up soon.

This isn't a glitch persay, but the platform jumping also leaves a lot to be desired. It feels very finicky when having to traverse heights in the game. I don't know if that's something that can get patched, but I suppose time will tell.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

Have to move a crane in order to rescue some people. Only problem is, Aloy keeps falling through the crane and into the water instead of stepping on the crabe and grabbing the ladder. Tried scaling a mountain to glide to it, and fell through as well. Decided to save and go to sleep yesterday.

Climbing is kinda weird. There are clearly marked grapple points RIGHT BESIDE Aloy that she may not reach for no matter what angle you come at them or how you swing the camera. Mildly annoying. And swimming is going to take some getting used to. At this point in my sidetracked quest I'm closer to Poseidon than Aether, so I'm not sure which main quest line I'm doing first, but if I get the dive mask at least I can try and get better at the swimming, Latopolis nearly took me out...

<-- Dave Thomas knows what's up...
__________________________

Jay: Look here homie, any nigga can get a hit record. This here is about respect.
Game: Like Gladys Knight.
Jay: Aretha Franklin.
Game: Word, I like her too.
Jay: Nigga...

The miracles of technology. Oddly enough, the website to submit the glitches is on the Sony website, so I'm hoping Guerilla Games will get the info somehow so they can patch it up.

Here's the link: https://www.playstation.com/en-us/horizon/support/


Pardon my ignorance, but I never knew Sony and/or more gaming developers allowed players to submit glitches like this so easily. I have to think there are some jokers/trolls using that website to submit nonsense.

I'll have to use that link when I get home to submit the specific area where the glitch is occurring.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

Especially now that they have that "free climb" system on the cliffsides (it sounds kinda silly because it's still set grab points, but once you play enough you can pretty intuitively tell what's climbable and what's not IMO) they really make Aloy glue to stuff

But even in the first game, jumping gaps with climb points has always felt weird because the game is so determined to make sure you hit that grab point that it will always lock Aloy onto that spot even if it COULD calculate your jump will bridge the gap on its own

~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

I'm sitting at Level 30 and haven't begun any of the quests for the subroutines yet. Always another errand, side mission, workbench collectable random side thing in the middle of said side quest, etc to do. The map never looks like it will be filled.

Think I'm about to say screw it and start on going after Poseidon since I've already been in the desert and up to Salt Bite the last 10 hours

<-- Dave Thomas knows what's up...
__________________________

Jay: Look here homie, any nigga can get a hit record. This here is about respect.
Game: Like Gladys Knight.
Jay: Aretha Franklin.
Game: Word, I like her too.
Jay: Nigga...

churning through all the side quests and errands on the first playthrough instead of just going straight for all the main quest items. Especially given how much there is in the game like you mentioned.

I did my first playthrough COMPLETELY focused on that main quest story so I'd avoid spoilers.

Much more than I remember being in the first one. I have to imagine if I streamed the game for others to watch, it would be like Low Attention Span theater. There are so many side quests this go round. I suppose this is a testament to the storytelling because the side quests don't feel like a chore in the sense I don't mind doing them. They seem to flow naturally to me. Also, as I've said more than once in this thread already, this game is fairly difficult, so I don't mind doing the side quest since completing them will enable me to level up and game more points to unlock more skills that I'll probably need for the end of the game.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

This is the first AAA game to give me genuine Mass Effect vibes. Not sure if I would have made the connection if I didn’t binge replay the whole series last year.

When you get to the Base in particular it’s hella clear this is structurally Mass Effect 2. Culture is also carefully crafted in this world, much like ME. I enjoyed the first Horizon game, but this sequel made it something special.

-30-
You know it's drama, but it sound real good.

Once you start building a team and getting all the companion dialogs it definitely has that ME2 feel...

Also in terms of culture, I'm really impressed with the side quests. Especially since I barely did any of them before completing the main story, and I'm just going around the map working through side quests now - they really focused on the culture of the tribes to a point that they feel real and diverse, and not made up stereotypes. For example you'll see certain characteristics of a tribe, but then do a sidequest with a clan in that tribe or an individual person that completely shifts that characteristic, to the point that they'll talk about struggling with that internally.

Also just yesterday I did the series of side quests dealing with Eclipse holdouts - I had no idea they were even in the game.

I'm around 130 hours in. I think I have the last mission to go (Singularity?). Got all the collectables (black boxes, ruins, totems, vista points, drones, lenses). Cleared all the cauldrons, got all the Tallnecks, wiped out all the rebel camps and outposts. I think I have about 98% of the side missions done. Did all the salvage contracts and got the armor. At some point I'll finish the arena and work on The Enduring, and then do the rest of the gauntlet runs. I have not played any Strike games, but I probably need to do that for the trophy (but that will be post main game).

The story is killer, the landscape is simply amazing, and the robot designs are outstanding. It's just SO DAMN MUCH GAME. There's always a mission, a sidequest, some rumbling Aloy mentions while you're walking along (there's one spot in the mountains where Aloy keeps mentioning looking at debris that I cannot figure out how to trigger it), an enemy convoy, resources and parts to grind for, EVERYWHERE. I am so glad fast travel is free this go round, because there's no way in hell I'd be walking everywhere. It's been super overwhelming many times when you look at how much else there is to do.

And all this is before any New Game+ release

<-- Dave Thomas knows what's up...
__________________________

Jay: Look here homie, any nigga can get a hit record. This here is about respect.
Game: Like Gladys Knight.
Jay: Aretha Franklin.
Game: Word, I like her too.
Jay: Nigga...

That one section where she was talking about debris, search the base of the hill with the focus. It's a weird inclusion to say the least once you see the result. I had to search longer than normal to understand what she was talking about. Great game though.

**Sig**
-Blackthought is the dopest emcee alive
-Uncle Sam and Santa Clause are good buddies.
-Be selfless and the world will be a better place.

The game is far from perfect. Pacing is a problem from the jump. Even with the pre-game movie, if you want to get anything meaningful out of the game you have to have played HZD and FW before starting this game. Hell, the game feels like it has 3 beginnings. At times it feels like they try to give you a better game than HZD by giving you SO MUCH MORE game than HZD, which isn't the same thing. There are more than a few characters that feel like their story or motives were set by today's social climate, and some may find it progressive, hamfisted, cringeworthy or otherwise. There is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much exposition that many times you may as well fix a sandwich and a drink and prepare to listen to 20 minutes of dialogue trees. You COULD skip some of them, but if you hope to figure out what the hell is going on in the game, you probably shouldn't. The ending is kinda mid, even if you know they have to set up a sequel (and even the setup is unfulfilling). Many have criticized Aloy for losing whatever character development she had at the end of HZD, and criticized her crew as having one default 'I'll follow you asn the saviour of Meridian' attitude, and that is 1000% valid

All that said...

This game absolutely SLAPS. Even slogging through the exposition the story of all the clans is absorbing. The combat is still as gratifying as before, with even more options for your style of play. You can still mash through like in HZD with all bows and be fine. You can try some of the other weapons at your disposal (spikes became one of my best friends, I swear). Mix up the valor surges to fit your play style and equipment (and if/when they are nerfed, try something else). The difficulty is definitely higher than HZD, but if you can't adapt, you can tweak the settings a bit to make it a little easier. Almost to a fault you're never without something to do, something to hunt, something to find, someone to help, some lore to understand, some technique to perfect. You're definitely never bored. Even when the game becomes a slog, the environment looks so damn good, the enemies are so varied and challenging, and the options so varied you keep pushing over the next hill or through the next jungle, valley, mountain or desert to see what's next (and there's a crapton of next).

It's better than, and not as good as HZD at the same time, strangely enough. While they tightened up and expanded a number of things from HZD, the sheer size and volume of, well STUFF can make it too much of a good thing more often than not. I don't know if this is GOTY territory, but easy Top 10, possibly Top 5 depending on how the year pans out. You owe it to yourself to try it if you have a PS5 (hell if you have a PS4, get it). I still have a handful of things to do before I can platinum it, which I may do in the coming weeks (I need a break). If they have any DLC and/or release the NG+ option I may give it another go, but after a long decompression (this game is SUPER DENSE). Definitely recommend, warts and all.

<-- Dave Thomas knows what's up...
__________________________

Jay: Look here homie, any nigga can get a hit record. This here is about respect.
Game: Like Gladys Knight.
Jay: Aretha Franklin.
Game: Word, I like her too.
Jay: Nigga...

the negative.

If you can get an enemy to a brittle state, whether they are resistant to it or not, you can tee off and take out chunks of their lifebar. It was the best elemental effect in HZD, and for my money still the best in HFW.

Still trying to get a read on the new elemental damage stats. Plasma is cool in theory, but the build up damage doesn't seem to be worth it given the time it takes to react (a focused sharpshot or braced shot does more damage quicker). Purgewater does nullify some of the enemies elemental attacks (especially useful for those freaking Clamberjaws), but not too many weapons that can use those. Acid feels like fire. I suppose it makes some parts easier to farm, but with a good Tearblast arrow it doesn't matter. Neither fire or acid allow anywhere near the damage level that freeze does.

<-- Dave Thomas knows what's up...
__________________________

Jay: Look here homie, any nigga can get a hit record. This here is about respect.
Game: Like Gladys Knight.
Jay: Aretha Franklin.
Game: Word, I like her too.
Jay: Nigga...

use to finish them off? Do you continue using frost ammo or switch to something else like tearblast?

When I played HZD I used to love using fire ammo, but it feels like they nurfed that in HFW.

I started trying to get legendary weapons but the grind for those is incredibly boring in this game...

Couple those with either the Range Master or Powershots valor surge and anything dies a quick death. Depending on your coils on the bow and your armor, you'll be taking Tremortusks out in 2 hits. Even without the valor surge and a low effect sharpshot bow you will deal major damage at distance. It does use a bunch of stamina and doubles arrow usage, but it is extremely effective

Now, as far as which sharpshot bow, that depends. You'll get one as part of the main story, and you can find another at a camp. Those will hold you down for quite a while. Once you get closer to the endgame (or grind in the arena) you have a few other options. I've got the Glowblast bow, which is one of the few bows to use tearblast arrows. Stupidly strong, but needs all the greenshine to upgrade, so get ready to clear those sunken caves. I recently got the Forgefall, and it can be devastatingly strong, but the grind to upgrade that one is pretty high

<-- Dave Thomas knows what's up...
__________________________

Jay: Look here homie, any nigga can get a hit record. This here is about respect.
Game: Like Gladys Knight.
Jay: Aretha Franklin.
Game: Word, I like her too.
Jay: Nigga...

I need to upgrade it though and figure out the best ammo to use for it.

Looking at the stats, the precision arrows it uses pack a punch. With a distance coil and an impact coil that bow could be deadly at long range.

<-- Dave Thomas knows what's up...
__________________________

Jay: Look here homie, any nigga can get a hit record. This here is about respect.
Game: Like Gladys Knight.
Jay: Aretha Franklin.
Game: Word, I like her too.
Jay: Nigga...

As immersive and as many choices the game gives you, it's a bit weird the game caps your experience level at 50. Also, the last boss battle felt a bit stale to me. I'm main glad melle combat wasn't involved as that is still a clunky experience just like the first game.

I will admit getting the ability to fly around the game is pretty I'll, especially given the number of glitches and hickups the game has. Can tell the developers took their time fine tuning the mechanics involved there.

I wonder what DLC this game could muster since the main game scratched so many itches. Perhaps some gameplay from Sylen's perspective?

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

It's slightly better here (as there's more combos), but besides using against human enemies, it's pretty worthless. Besides, the best way to clear out the rebel camps is with stealth rather than direct combat. I still need to get to The Enduring for that trophy but can't be bothered with the last training pit yet.

Kind of wish the ability to fly came sooner, or was more ingrained into the story. But, I suppose it also depends on how you play the game. If you mainlined the main quest, getting the override was a great way to get around and do everything else. If you play like I did and try to do every side quest you're presented with in each area before progressing to the next story bit, you'll be at Level 50 before the end missions and have little use for flight besides a few side missions and collectables.

<-- Dave Thomas knows what's up...
__________________________

Jay: Look here homie, any nigga can get a hit record. This here is about respect.
Game: Like Gladys Knight.
Jay: Aretha Franklin.
Game: Word, I like her too.
Jay: Nigga...

>It's slightly better here (as there's more combos), but
>besides using against human enemies, it's pretty worthless.
>Besides, the best way to clear out the rebel camps is with
>stealth rather than direct combat. I still need to get to The
>Enduring for that trophy but can't be bothered with the last
>training pit yet.


A lack of locking onto enemies it what frustrated me the most when I was typing out that original message. And it was strictly because I was in the midst of trying to complete that Enduring training pit nonsense. In the course of the main storyline, melee combat isn't that necessary because like you said, stealth combat is the proven way to kill human enemies.

Still pretty annoying to have to deal with melee combat on a fair more complicated level to clear out those Enduring missions when the combat mechanic is still fairly clunky though.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

Spoilers of course...


Horizon 3 will pick up with the Nemesis conflict. But a DLC for HFW could pick up with them finding and fighting Hephestus to get it back and connected to Gaia as a subfunction (they'll need Hephestus to fight Nemesis.)

Or if they want to save that for Horizon 3, the DLC could be about the Quen homeland (likely somewhere in China or Africa) which would be interesting since they have more knowledge of the ancients than other tribes.

A DLC could also explore them learning from the Apollo database they have now, which could also give some foreshadowing to the Nemesis threat in terms of information on the Zeniths from their ship.

There have been some gamers who have found areas on the map that look like potential DLC locations, but I haven't looked that far into it.

I tried to take on a tremortusk so I could upgrade some of my gear. I parked my ride a few steps behind the battle so I could hop back on once I was done. Shit did not go as planned.

this nigga found where I parked my shit, blew it up and almost murked me. I had to throw a smoke bomb to get out of there. I used all my resources for other shit so I couldn't craft a quick travel kit.

Nigga I had the longest, most dangerous walk back to a bristleback site. Shit was filled with all types of dangerous animals. it was like the fucking Warriors.

Enemies will tee off on your mount as soon as they spot them. Good way to distract them while you move to a better location for a shot, but not great if you want to keep said mount. You can revive your mount in some instances, but I can't remember if it's tied to a machine skill or not.

<-- Dave Thomas knows what's up...
__________________________

Jay: Look here homie, any nigga can get a hit record. This here is about respect.
Game: Like Gladys Knight.
Jay: Aretha Franklin.
Game: Word, I like her too.
Jay: Nigga...

Swap skill points, mod armor visuals, new weapons, ultra hard mode... Let's get it!

<-- Dave Thomas knows what's up...
__________________________

Jay: Look here homie, any nigga can get a hit record. This here is about respect.
Game: Like Gladys Knight.
Jay: Aretha Franklin.
Game: Word, I like her too.
Jay: Nigga...

And to be fair, I'm into games like this because of the story above and beyond everything else, and HZD was unique with the twists, and because of that I did NG+ multiple times to see that story unfold while enjoying all of the foreshadowing and lore building.

That is also here in HFW (to a lesser extent), but the annoying puzzles and running through mazes in buildings is just annoying when doing a NG+ replay. I didn't notice as much on my initial playthrough, but I find myself just turning the game off out of frustration a lot going through this NG+.

>The
>annoying puzzles and running through mazes in buildings is
>just annoying when doing a NG+ replay. I didn't notice as much
>on my initial playthrough, but I find myself just turning the
>game off out of frustration a lot going through this NG+.



The puzzles are such a time waster.. does anyone actually ENJOY them?

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and to feel bigger. But no one is enjoying a boring maze trying to find a way through vents to the other side, with no enemies, just walking around. Or trying to fine the right specific spot to jump to keep climbing...

before the main quest. I haven't touched this game in like a month. I'm eventually just gonna fly through the main quest and not even think about touching NG+

I think that probably speaks more to the game structure than anything else. The pacing of the game isn't great. As mentioned before, there's 3 beginnings before you actually get to the Forbidden West properly. That's a lot to run through again from scratch.

The new weapons make their own problems. Yes, the base stats are higher than the legendary weapons you can normally get. Yes, they are easier to buy with the champion's tokens. BUT, the ammo takes resources you will either quickly run out of from your NG+ stash, or you need to run to the last 1/4 of the game to fight the machines needed for the resources and shards to make the upgrades happen.

HFW always had story and pacing issues. Running a NG+ just amplifies this. Yes, you can run through the main storyline quest without super serious issues (even on ultra hard, as a few gameplay vids have shown). But the upgrade grind for each weapon and armor (old or new) is a lot. At some point in the game, the upgrade grind is all that's left, which isn't great. I am all for fighting machines, but there's only so many Fireclaws and Slitherfangs I can fight for the limited resources I need before I have to ask 'WTF!!!'

All that said, it doesn't really change my original rating and synopsis of the game. Go get it. Go beat it. You will have a great time.

Will you want to do it again? That's the question NG+ has to answer, and whatever you come up with is correct.

<-- Dave Thomas knows what's up...
__________________________

Jay: Look here homie, any nigga can get a hit record. This here is about respect.
Game: Like Gladys Knight.
Jay: Aretha Franklin.
Game: Word, I like her too.
Jay: Nigga...

Doesn't take away from my original love of the game. And it's not really fair to compare to the replay value of the first game, because I've never played another game over and over again like that.

The one positive about NG+ I'll mention though is since I already know the story I'm able to enjoy the side quests more (my first playthrough I went QUICKLY through the main quests, and then did the side quests afterwards). There is a ton of depth and thought put into all the side quests and characters/tribes.

I think they made a concerted effort to make the side quests meaningful to the lore and story, and varied enough not to feel like a rote part to extend the gameplay. You could see a distinction between all the Tenakth tribes, and the storyline and missions in Vegas with the Oseram crew was fantastic.

There's just so damn many side quests to do, and while they are better and more meaningful than in HZD, that doesn't mean you'll want to do all of them. The way the weapons are upgraded you will still be left at a point where you have to fight certain machines multiple times to upgrade any weapon or armor you have, and that's all you will be doing for HOURS. Can you mix up your battle strategy every time you fight for the Fireclaw sac webbing? Sure. Is it fun though? Depends on what kind of gamer you are. For me, it absolutely is not.

I love getting to the final boss as leveled up as possible with the biggest stick I can find. But no matter what your weapon of choice is or what your play style is (run through the main story or do everything in each section before you move on), it takes too much time fighting too specific enemies to get to that level. I'm all for big machine fights, but at some point, doing the mountain range fight with the Tusk/Spine/Dread/Storm got extremely repetitive. And we're not even going to talk about the Claw brothers. I can mix and match weapons and valor surges all day, but it's still the same thing at some point. I'm not the kind of gamer that wants to fight the biggest enemy with the smallest weapon. If that's you, this game is perfect.

<-- Dave Thomas knows what's up...
__________________________

Jay: Look here homie, any nigga can get a hit record. This here is about respect.
Game: Like Gladys Knight.
Jay: Aretha Franklin.
Game: Word, I like her too.
Jay: Nigga...

enjoy going up against big machines with just a bow, switching up the type of bow and ammo depending on the enemy. That being said I did my first playthrough in Story mode and my NG+ is in Normal mode, so that's an entirely different experience than y'all REAL gamers playing Ultra Hard.

At some point I end up reverting to Frost -> Range Mastor Valor Surge -> Boltblaster and tommy gun every big ass machine to bits.

<-- Dave Thomas knows what's up...
__________________________

Jay: Look here homie, any nigga can get a hit record. This here is about respect.
Game: Like Gladys Knight.
Jay: Aretha Franklin.
Game: Word, I like her too.
Jay: Nigga...

The only other games I can think of that were as aware of what state your game world was in during side quests are Red Dead II and another game on the tip of my tongue I can't quite remember. Aloy or other characters will almost always be up to date on what she's already got in her inventory or done out in the world and the dialogue will adjust to account for that.


When I think back on my time with this game, more and more it feels like the opposite of my Zero Dawn experience. I loved everything about the side quests, from all the animation work to the diversity of culture, mental spectrums, physical disability, etc. it just felt really, really cared for in the same way most of the first game's side quests are comically stupid.



~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

in my initial run, I'd have some interest. Perhaps I'm getting too old to get deeply wrapped into video games, but I have no interest in running this game back.

I hope the DLC delves into another character honestly because I'd like to start fresh within this series.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

NG+ does give you all your weapons/armor/resources from your main runthrough. If you're grinding, do as much as you can in the first playthough before doing a NG+ loadout. The good news on the new weapons: base stats are better than anything else. Obtaining them are pretty cheap with the new Champion tokens - just do missions and a few side quests and you'll have at least 3 before you hit the Embassy. Bad news: the ammo types are weird, and the resources you need to craft them are hella expensive. Mind you, you have access to a Sunwing after you reach your base (though you have to run through at least Plainsong to get to it), so you could just fly to the area of the map you need to fight the enemies for your resources to upgrade the new weapons.

But all that leads back to the main issue: it's a helluva grind to upgrade, and the new weapons are hella taxing on resources. Like... Iriv's Downfall sharpshot has the strongest sharpshot bows, so you can, in theory, do INSANE damage with the right coils and valor surge. BUT you can't carry that many and the crafting cost is insane, making you revert to the Forgefall, Delta or Glowblast if you want more than one hefty braced shot. Unless the DLC enemies really need the upgraded stat weapons to take them down (and looking at how Frozen Wilds amped up the enemies, that may be the case), the new weapons may or may not be totally worth it RIGHT NOW.

My humble advice: If you want to wait for the DLC before starting NG+, it may not be a terrible idea. By then, the various patches and balances may be out, more weapons, armors, and balance changes may be applied, and there's more to experience for the grind you already know is ahead.

<-- Dave Thomas knows what's up...
__________________________

Jay: Look here homie, any nigga can get a hit record. This here is about respect.
Game: Like Gladys Knight.
Jay: Aretha Franklin.
Game: Word, I like her too.
Jay: Nigga...

...Elden Ring NG+6 had me realizing I need a new game, so I fired HFW up....the HFW tutorial area was so annoying I almost deleted the game from my ps5 ...the hand holding and exhausting dialogue was super annoying ...I made myself push through all that and now I'm kind of enjoying it (I loved HZD).

I think it's because of the map, they made the tutorial level important from a story perspective but it's in an area east of the Forbidden West, which means they had to make it a bit longer to get their story points in to send Aloy off to the Forbidden West.

But year - definitely can be annoying especially with Varl tagging along asking annoying questions and pointing out things. I was right with Aloy when she left him in Meridian to go west...

>I think it's because of the map, they made the tutorial level
>important from a story perspective but it's in an area east of
>the Forbidden West, which means they had to make it a bit
>longer to get their story points in to send Aloy off to the
>Forbidden West.
>
>But year - definitely can be annoying especially with Varl
>tagging along asking annoying questions and pointing out
>things. I was right with Aloy when she left him in Meridian to
>go west...



yup... also, I had the tutorial glitch in 2 different spots where I completed the task but it did not advance.. so i had to go back a few saves.. also the game crashed my ps5 at another spot.

Tutorial section, prologue section, Intro to the FW, then Mass Effect setup and the real FW. It's a LOT, but it absolutely is worth pushing through.

Can't say much about the dialogue trees, as there's a netric fukton of them. But the combat is NICE once you get teh swing of it and let go some things that got nerfed (ropecasters, tripwires, blastslings aren't nearly as effective now, but you can still make it work and there's a TON of options that work better, almost to a fault)

<-- Dave Thomas knows what's up...
__________________________

Jay: Look here homie, any nigga can get a hit record. This here is about respect.
Game: Like Gladys Knight.
Jay: Aretha Franklin.
Game: Word, I like her too.
Jay: Nigga...

make players go through ALL of the dialogue options before getting to the current dialogue. For example at the base when you’re talking to NPCs, there is new dialogue after every main quest. If you skip any conversations though you have to go through all the old dialogue from quests that you completed a MINUTE ago before you get to current stuff. They should just let you skip all the old conversations and go straight to whatever is current.

...I just dont care about any of their dialogue ...and honestly, if I hit another area where "can't enter this location", i might just delete this game.. way to ruin the feeling that it's an "open world" when i can't walk past invisible lines.

< Live Mixshow - Thurs 11PM/EST >
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I was too busy marveling at how advanced and customized the dialogue wheel animations were.

This game had me under a spell for about 20 hours before I started seeing the cracks.

Unlike Elden ring which I seemed to feel completely different about every 10 hours.

~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

Apex Slaughterspine on Ultrahard mode. Especially on a 100 inch projector screen and surround sound system - when that boss music starts kicking in as the plasma charges up???? Nothing else like it.

I was just fighting one off the beach near San Francisco, and when the plasma would charge I’d dive into the water to hide. This joker realized what I was doing after a couple times, and followed me into the water. I turned Aloy around towards the beach thinking I was safe and he was RIGHT there - I literally jumped out of my seat. Lit me up with that plasma too…

Finally bought my PS5 since this wasn't going to be on PS4 (btw, the game looks great on PS4 but a whole lot better on PS5. I was shocked).
I may work from home tomorrow and put a few hours in. Can't wait.

<-- Dave Thomas knows what's up...
__________________________

Jay: Look here homie, any nigga can get a hit record. This here is about respect.
Game: Like Gladys Knight.
Jay: Aretha Franklin.
Game: Word, I like her too.
Jay: Nigga...

My brother likens this DLC like a slice of cake that was put in the freezer for a later time, and that feels about right. It's good stuff, but doesn't quite have the weight that Frozen Wilds did, be it story, new enemies, objectives, etc. Don't get me wrong, it looks fantastic, and more Horizon is never a bad thing. But Frozen Wilds felt new and different. This is just more.

I chalk it up to one of two things. Either they spent too much time trying to make this work for PS4 as well before pulling the plug and making it PS5 only, which cut down on development or what else they could have added, or the team was already stretched thin on the Call Of The Mountain VR. Of course, I could be off base on everything.

Still, you could spend $20 on less or worse things. If you have the game, get the DLC. It's a fun enough ride.

As for the 'controversy' over that storyline? I don't care

<-- Dave Thomas knows what's up...
__________________________

Jay: Look here homie, any nigga can get a hit record. This here is about respect.
Game: Like Gladys Knight.
Jay: Aretha Franklin.
Game: Word, I like her too.
Jay: Nigga...

Maybe I had my expectations too high because of Frozen Wilds. That felt like a full game in and of itself - both from a story and a game play perspective.

For this DLC though it kinda felt like a combination of sidequests that were originally planned for the main game but didn't make the cut. That being said, WELL worth the $20 just like you mentioned. I'd have happily paid that just for the Horus battle (and I definitely couldn't see them making that battle work on PS4).