>Simply put: If you hold out
>on resources then yes you
>are hiding something.

It's a funding issue, and it's not like people can't hop on busses.



>>
>>>>Just because white communities aren't
>>>>having as many teenage pregnancies
>>>>doesn't mean they're hiding them.
>>>>You're basically assuming that these
>>>>white communities HAVE to be
>>>>like the Black ones.
>>>>
>>>No they don't have to be
>>>like black ones, hell even
>>>if we had the equal
>>>economic levels and so on
>>>we still wouldn't be alike.
>>
>>But if we had the same
>>access to information, health care
>>and similar attitudes towards sex,
>>things would be a lot
>>closer.
>
>BINGO: IF we had the same
>access to information, health care
>...as for similar attitudes, are
>you saying all middle income
>whites feel this way/all poor
>blacks feel this way?

In general, yes.

My own experiences with dating/sleeping dealing with people of lower socio-economic status (Of all races) tell me that I'm much more likely to be able to get away with: "I'll pull out Baby" "Condoms bother me" then women of similar or higher socioeconomic status to me.

I think we talked about this before on another thread, weren't you the one that said that the only White women at your job who have kids were either married or divorced?



>>
>>>However abortion has always been more
>>>exceptable amongst whites than blacks.
>>>Many black women think of
>>>an abortion as taboo and
>>>will encourage their daughters to
>>>have a child rather than
>>>abort. The same goes for
>>>latinos.
>>
>>How many Blacks do you know
>>of that have blown up
>>abortion clinics?
>>
>How many blacks you know fight
>for pro-choice, protesting and such?

Plenty.



>>Regardless, I think that few of
>>them are getting to the
>>point where they need an
>>abortion (Since the pregnancy rates
>>are so much lower in
>>the first place) and many
>>of them wouldn't abort either,
>>with the heavy presence of
>>Right Wing conservatives infesting the
>>burbs, I don't see it
>>happening very often.
>>
>I hope your not saying that
>white burbanites would have kids
>based on RightWing groups.

A lot of people in the Suburbs are against abortion, where do you think those pro-life protestors come from? Who do you think makes the most noise about getting laws passed that require the child to get parental consent if the kid wants an abortion?

Suburbanites.

You seem to think that a lot of white people are just killing their babies and that's why the birth rate is lower, when that's just not true, they're simply getting pregnant at lower rates in the first place.

>>IMHO, they are more likely to
>>simply send the child "to
>>aunt patties house" and have
>>her give up the child
>>for adoption.
>>
>Have you seen the low rate
>of white kids in adoption?
>Do you think whites would
>adopting over seas from Romania
>if the likely white girl
>were to take that route?

#1. It's actually much cheaper and easier to adopt kids from overseas then from America. A lot of parents do this because they don't feel like waiting.

#2. There are fewer White kids waiting to be adopted, because White people are more likely to adopt in the first place, While Black people are far less likely to adopt. I knew plenty of adopted White kids (from america) growing up.

#3. Much lower pregnancy and birth rates amongst single mothers, resulting in far fewer kids being put up for adoption.


>>>I get some of what your
>>>saying but what is your
>>>point for why blacks are
>>>at high rates for AIDS
>>>compared to whites? Cause I
>>>know married black couples without
>>>kids and singles without kids
>>>or disease, and as far
>>>as my friends go I'm
>>>the only one with a
>>>child, so are you saying
>>>that the majority of blacks
>>>don't hold not having kids
>>>until marriage as a high
>>>priority?
>>
>>I'm saying we don't place the
>>same stigma on having illegitamate
>>kids as Whites do. When
>>you don't have the same
>>Stigma you don't worry about
>>it as much.
>>
>I really don't think thats the
>case considering the outof wed
>births that white female celebraties
>are making popular. And it
>is a stigma in the
>black community cause everyone knows
>that if it happens you
>become a statistic in everyones
>eyes(b&w). No one
>wants to be a statistic.

Not the same thing.

White Female Celebrities (Of which they are like 3) can do what they want, doesn't mean people would accept it if it was right next door.

Like I said, none of my White friends is going to date a White Baby Mama......while in the Black community, it's not a big deal. Divorce is one thing, but out of Wedlock? No way, Jose.

A few years back, my secretary (White, lived in a Middle Class area, very attractive) had guys more or less running from her house because she was 25 with an 9 year old son.

My Boss' secretary (Black, 27, 2 kids, lived in Philly) didn't really have problems with guys dissing her because she had kids.

I'm not saying there isn't a Stigma, but it isn't ANYWHERE are as strong as the Stigma in White communities. I've observed both and the difference is striking.

>>Do you think Black families are
>>as ashamed as White ones
>>to tell people that their
>>16 year old daughter is
>>pregnant, do you think that
>>girl experiences as much of
>>a "social cut" from those
>>around her?
>>
>How many black teens do you
>know that what pregnant and
>what was their families reaction?
>Believe the shit is looked
>down on and yes the
>girl is given a social
>cut, however the girl is
>not thrown out of the
>family if thats what your
>getting at, but she might
>receive a beat down, no
>lie.

Beat Down Vs. Disowned by your parents, Beat Down Vs. Disowned by your Parents, Beat Down Vs. Disowned by your parents.

Hmm......


The social cut is no where near as severe.


>That sounds like some 1960 shit
>and if that be the
>case then I'm pretty sure
>white girls are aborting their
>asses off.

#1. Teenagers can't get abortions without their parents finding out.

#2. A lot of parents put their kids on the pill, or the kid finds a way to do it themselves.

#3. Because of the reprocussions, they work a lot harder at making sure they always use birth control, so they're simply not getting pregnant in the first place. Remember, this girls have MUCH lower rates of pregnancy, let alone births.

Please let go of this whole abortion crap and accept the fact that a different attitude/priorities towards birth control is behind 90-95% of the difference here. When you have people who just accept that they can get to age 30 without getting pregnant (let alone giving birth) they're obviously conducting themselves different with respect to sex and birth control.




>Anyway as I come to think
>of it, back in 96
>in MPLS I was talking
>with my roomy(whitemiddleclass, Iowa) and
>she was telling me of
>how her and her best
>friend would have each others
>backs when taking pregnancy test
>and without me even asking
>what she would have done
>with the kid she told
>me '...because i knew I
>couldn't keep it'. Now I
>doubt that she was talking
>about giving it up, considering
>she was modeling. What good
>is a model with stretch
>marks?

If she's that afraid of abortion, she's almost definitely on the pill or Depo, and won't be having sex without a condom. Because of the "fear" she is going to make damn sure she doesn't get prengant in the first place.......when in this day and age, isn't that hard.



>>Know any Black families that would
>>happen too?
>>
>Yeah back in 1960, but that
>goes for white families too.

They still do it, but it's rare, because they aren't getting pregnant in the first place.


>>Exactly...less birth control availability is going
>>to cause more pregnancies and
>>transmission of disease.
>>
>Why we still on this shit?

Because you're the one talking about some secret causing the difference in rates of HIV transmission and I'm telling you why, obviously it's an answer you don't want to accept, you'd rather Blame Whitey.


Any activity that can get you pregnant can get you infected with HIV, SO lower use of birth control is going to result in higher rates of infection.


>>>>As for abortions....in a small community,
>>>>it's hard to keep things
>>>>secret and a lot of
>>>>girls can't get them as
>>>>teens, and like I said,
>>>>in that different environment, it's
>>>>all that neccessary.
>>>>
>If somebody wants to get an
>abortion bad enough and be
>secretive about, they will find
>a way.

C'mon you damn well folk can't keep anything secret, especially teenagers.

Boyfriend knows, he tells his boy because he has to tell someone, or the girl tells her best friend and 3 months later, everyone more or less knows.



>But still the RESOURCES to achieve
>that goal are not in
>BLACK communities.

It's not all about resources, it's thinking and habits as well.

People can't drive/take a bus to PP, for something that's this important?

People can't walk to the corner Bodega and buy condoms?

Resources would reduce some of this, but sometimes (especially for something this critical) people need to step up and handle their business.


>>If I started dating a woman
>>with a child who had
>>the child when she was
>>in her teens, I doubt
>>my suburbanite friends would be
>>very accepting of her.
>
>What that got to do with
>this. Hell i know men
>raised by they mommas they
>don't date women with kids
>and avoid it at all
>cost.

You're missing the point (again)

The point is that the stigma is SO HIGH, that having kids an early age more or less results in social ostracization, SO people are going to much more careful about not having kids.




>>
>>Most of my family, some of
>>my Black friends who grew
>>up in the inner city,
>>wouldn't blink, nor would they
>>care.
>>
>Okay your burby friends would look
>at you cross-eye for dating
>a women with a kid
>half her age, yet your
>black friends would just yarn?

More or less......if they said anything it might be: "why do you want to deal with a kid?" but they wouldn't be passing judgement on the girl as if she was a slut, trash, stupid, beneath us, etc.

Like I said, the stigma against teen parents/people who have kids in their early 20s is very high.



>M2 you confusing the hell out
>of me. I'm just saying
>if you don't give equal
>advantage to people you can't
>expect equal outcomes. Blacks do
>not up hold out of
>wedlock kids as something great,
>everyone would want their child
>to marry, have a good
>education, and career before having
>a kid. Stop making it
>seem like Blacks don't want
>or value these things.
>
>I'm out

I'm not saying they DON'T value these things, I'm saying that they don't value them as MUCH, because if they did 70% of Black kids wouldn't be born out of wedlock, lack of resources isn't the whole story, attitudes is a lot of it.

Because if people were of the mind of, "Hey, I can't get what I need to protect myself sexually" they would find a way to get it, or not have sex, Suburbanites in similar situations do it all the time.

I know plenty of girls who didn't have sex because they were afraid of getting pregnant before they finished college, or waited until they got to college and could get the pill from the health center.




Peace,







M2

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