I found this on GLBPOC and I thought to post it here. However, my thrust for posting this here comes out of something else.

I volunteer at the GBLT community center here in Tucson, AZ, called Wingspan. Today, a new volunteer came in. She's bisexual, eighteen, white, and considers herself an activist. While training, we have a chance to get to know each other. And Carol, who I normally work with, starts making an analogy between the KKK and Taliban. And then Sarah (her name) starts talking about how women are treated in Afghanistan (like she's been there and all). And I am stuck in the middle, saying, "But we don't know anything about their culture. We don't know any of the contexts. We _MUST_ be careful about looking at other people with our American eyes and our American culture and making moralistic judgements."

No one wanted to hear that.

But it is getting to me. It is getting to me that the media is going through all of this effort to make us think/feel that our "striking" Afghanistan (and going into Iraq, now) is something that we need to do. It is attempting to play off of our cultural (American cultural) mindsets. And this scares me because not everyone is going to be able to read into it and see it.

When I read this, I just wanted Sarah and Carol to read it to counter some of the shit they, we all, are being fed.

There is no excuse.
There is no justification.

Peace,

Q
*****************************************************************
Here is a speech delivered by an Afghan senior official Syyed
Rehmatullah Hashmi in University of Southern California,Los
angeles,California on 10th March 2001. It is worth reading.
Please read it carefully and send it to everybody you know as early as possible without discriminating the religion,country and nations cos i think everyone has a kind heart in one's body for a human being. I have omitted the details to avoid the lenth of the mail but you can find it on the web site of MSA-USC
***
*Note: Indicate words that were not heard clearly in the
recording.


I was just coming from a group of scholars, and
the first thing we started there was the statues. It s very unfortunate how little we see and how little we know. And it really confuses me, if people really know that little or not. Nobody has seen the problems of Afghanistan; nobody saw their problems before. And the only thing that represents Afghanistan today are the statues.

The problem of Afghanistan was not new. As you know that
Afghanistan is called, The Crossroads of Asia. So, we are suffering because of our geo-strategic location. We have suffered in the 18th century, 19th century, and we are still suffering in this century.(they are sufferning now in 21st
centuary)

We have not attacked the British. We have not attacked the
Russians. It was them who attacked us. So the problems in Afghanistan you see is not our creation. That reflects the image of the world. If you don t like the image in the mirror, do not break the mirror; break your face.

The problems in Afghanistan started in 1979. Afghanistan was a
peaceful country and it was doing its own job. The Russians, along with their 140,000 troops attacked Afghanistan in the December of 1979, just 21 years ago, stayed there for a decade, killed one and a half million people, maimed one million more people, and six million out of the eighteen million people migrated because of the Russian brutalities. Even today,
our children are dying because of the landmines that they planted for us. And nobody knows about this.

After the Russians left during the Russian occupation, on the
other side, the American government, the British government, the French, the Chinese, and all of the rest, supported the counter-revolutionaries called the Mujahideen; 7 parties only in Pakistan and 8 parties in Iran who fought the Russian occupation. And after the Russians left, these parties
went into Afghanistan. All of them had different ideologies, a lot of weapon. And instead of having a single administration, they fought in Afghanistan.

So seeing this destruction and lawlessness, a group of students
called the Taliban the following things that we have done, and many of you may not know:

* The first thing we have done is reunify the fragmented country

* Second thing we have done, which everybody failed to do, was disarm (the) population.

* And the third thing that we have done is to establish a single
administration under Afghanistan, which did not exist for 10
years.

* And the fourth achievement that we have that is surprising to
everybody is that we have eradicated 75% of all worlds Opium cultivation. Afghanistan produced 75% of all worlds Opium. The drug, you know that Opium? The Narcotics business? And last year we issued an edict asking the people to stop growing Opium, and this year, the United Nations Drug Control Program, UNDCP, and their head, Barnard F., announced that there was 0% of
Opium cultivation.

* The fifth achievement that we have, but it's a little controversial, some of our friends will not know is the restoration of Human rights. Before us, nobody could live peacefully in Afghanistan. So the first thing we have
done, begun to the people is a secure and peaceful
life.

The second major thing that we have restored is to give them free and fair justice; you don't have to buy justice, unlike here. You will have justice freely. And you have criticized us for violating women's rights. They didn't
have the right to select their husbands, or to reject their
husbands. First thing we have done is to let them choose their future. we had to start from zero; we couldn t jump in the middle.

Now you ve asked me about the rights of women's education and the rights of women's work. Unlike what is said here, women do work in Afghanistan. You're right that until 1997 I
mean, in 1996 when we captured the capitol Kabul, we did ask
women to stay home. It didn't mean that we wanted them to stay at home forever, but nobody listened to us. We said that there is no law, and there is no order, and have to stay at home. They were raped before us, every day. So, after we disarmed the people, and after we brought law and order, now women
are working. They work in the Ministry of Health, Interior,
Ministry of Education, Ministry of Social Affairs, and so on.

* And the Seventh problem is that we are accused of is terrorism, or the existence of terrorists in Afghanistan. And for Americans terrorism or terrorist means only bin Laden.

Now you will not know that bin Laden was in Afghanistan 17 years before even we existed. Bin Laden was in Afghanistan, fought the Soviet Union, and Mr. Ronald Reagan, the president of America in that time, and Dick, Mr. Dick Chaney called such people freedom fighters or the Heroes of Independence, because they were fighting for their cause. So Osama bin Laden was one of those guys who was instigated by such media reports, so in that provocation by these countries to go to Afghanistan and fight the Soviets there. And now when the Soviet Union is fragmented, such people were not needed anymore, and they were transformed into terrorists from heroes to terrorists.

So exactly like Mr. Yassir Arafat was transformed from a terrorist to a hero. So we don t know as to what is the definition of Terrorism. We do regret that the terrorists
were actually horrific acts and they were terrorist acts. But if
they are terrorist acts, what is the difference between those terrorist acts and the attacks on Afghanistan when in 1998 attacks, cruise missile attacks on Afghanistan. Neither of the two were declared and both of them killed civilians. So we are confused as to what is the definition of Terrorism. If it means killing civilians blindly, both of them killed civilians blindly.

They announced that they were trying to kill Osama bin Laden. We
didn't know Osama bin Laden then. I didn t know him; he was just a simple man. So we were all shocked. I was one of those men who was sitting at home at night, I was called for an immediate council meeting and we all were told the United States have attacked Afghanistan with 75 cruise missiles and trying to kill one man. And they missed that man; killed 19 other students
and never apologized for those killings. So what would you do if
you were in our status; if we were to go and send 75 cruise missiles into the United States and say that we were going to kill a man that we thought not believed that we thought was responsible for our embassy, and we missed that man, and we killed 19 other Americans what would the United States do?
An instant declaration of war. But we were polite. We didn't
declare war. We had a lot of problems at home; we didn't want further problem.

United States is looking for a Boogy Man always. Remember what
Gorbachev said? He said, that he s going to do the worst thing ever to the United States. And everybody thought that he s going to blow the United States with nuclear weapon. But he said, "I m going to remove their enemy". And then he fragmented Soviet Union. And he was right. After he fragmented Soviet Union, a lot of people lost their jobs in the Pentagon, in the CIA, and the FBI, because they were not needed anymore. So we think that maybe these guys are looking for a Boogy Man now. Maybe they want to justify their annual budget, maybe they want to make their citizens feel that they are still needed to defend them. Afghanistan is not a terrorist state; we cannot even make a needle. How are we going to be a terrorist state? How are we going to be a threat to the world? If the world terrorism
is really derived from the word terror , then there are countries making weapons of mass destruction, countries making nuclear weapons, forest deforestation, soil, air, and water pollution they are terrorist states; we are not.

Now, we are under sanctions. And the sanctions have caused a lot
of problems, despite that we are going under so many problems, the 23 years of continuous war, the total destruction of our infrastructure, and the problem of refugees, and the problem of land mines in our agricultural lands, all of a sudden the United Nations, with the provocation of Russia, is imposing sanctions on Afghanistan. And the sanctions have been approved; we are under sanctions. Several hundred children died a month
ago, here it is (holds up pamphlet). Seven hundred children died because of malnutrition and the severe cold weather. Nobody even talked about that.

Everybody knows about the statues. For us, we are surprised, that the world is destroying our future with economic sanctions, then they have no right to worry about our past. But it is really, really ridiculous. These people do not care about children, about people who are dying there, about the foreign
interference that still exists, they only care about the
statues. And I m sure they don t care about our heritage. They don t care about our heritage; they only care about their picnic site one time. Maybe they'll have a good picnic site there, seeing those statues.

We are still open-minded. We are still, we have still opened our
doors for negotiations, but our offices are closed everywhere our office was closed in New York a week ago. They are trying to shut our offices in other countries, trying to isolate us, and they dont know that isolation is counter-productive.

I m prolonging this speech, I m sorry, because I have been
repeating it everywhere, so I may have left some thing in it, and I will let you ask me questions. he answered a question, I will tell you a story of CNN. CNN was in Afghanistan interviewing bin Laden, in '98. You have to be careful in listening to this. I was there, and they asked bin
Laden as to what was the thinking about the killing of civilians
in Iraq.

After three hours of formal conversation, and the camera was
rolling. He said, that if all American citizens and if all British citizens are willing, or supporting, to kill all Iraqi civilians, then all American citizens and all British citizens deserve the same thing or to be killed.

CNN cut everything. Three-hour conversation was not there, only
thing they put was and it was not complete the only clause that they said was, the independent clause of what he said, they said that, all American and British citizens must be killed. This is what came on the air.

But he didn't mean this. And I know that all Americans do not support the killing civilians there. Not even a quarter of that. That was impossible. But now what they taught their people was that bin Laden is saying that all American civilians must be killed.

**************************

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^*********^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
"americans are gross!" -utamaroho

Uplifting thoughts:

"We are the end result of our ancestors prayers as they died. We you are the sum total of their answered prayers."

"I am because we are; we are because I am."

"falling in love with somebody's soul...their essence their personality their walk their talk the way they speak and smile...no matter what the physical outer body is..male or female...is a temptation i hope i am never foolish enough to resist." - Hot Damali

____________


"When the revolution comes, "faggots" won't be so funny." - The Last Poets

** Most people mis-read this line. I don't think he is being homophobic. I think he's making sure you folks know, within our communities, those of you who laugh at

So many ignorant people on hear talking like they have any idea whatsoever of what goes on in Afghanistan.

You all need to read this.




____________________________________________

"we Jews control the US" - Ariel Sharon

"Oh You who believe ! Stand out firmly for Justice, as witnesses to God, even against yourself, against your children and against your parents. Against people who are rich or poor. Because God is the best of all Protectors. Do not follow your inclinations or desires lest you should deviate from justice. Verily God is well acquainted with all that you do."

Holy Quran, Chapter 4: Verse 135

well you see that is the problem with America and the European history... they clearly want you to see what they want you to see... they want you to believe that those who call themselves Jews are the real Jews, the ones in the Bible, they clearly want you to believe that black men are responsible for drugs and putting them in jail will decrease murder, carjackings, and violent crimes of any kind, they want you to believe that destroying the Native Americans was for the benefit of having America in the first place. Ignorant people will always say, well someone has to lose... but the thing is God made us all, right Christians? So how is it that they are the one's placing judgement? Doesn't make sense right... of course not... they will have you believe whatever they want you to believe... Bush is a dictator... example, they are pulling the Boondocks in certain papers around the country, but why? Isn't it un-American to stop someone from truly expressing themselves? Isn't it un-American to make everyone feel they have to have the same opinion? Isn't it funny how all the information on Osama Bin Laden now surfaces, however, through all the info on Afghanistan and Laden... none of the actual hard proof and evidence has ever once been given?

i have a somalian friend who saw a ms magazine lying on my couch a few years ago and noticed an article abt female genital mutilation. he blew up, saying that the amt of respect for women in this country is pitiful- at least somalians respect, love, and appreciate the women in their country

ya can't judge cultural practices from the outside

i also have a friend from afghanistan. much of her family already fled to pakistan months ago. she lost some family because of taliban rules that didn't work well for them, and is very upset abt the taliban gov't

but even she isn't jumping up and down shouting bomb those afghan devils

mass bombing, side- taking, starting a bloody as hell war, using rations as propoganda, ..... so much of what we're doing is just plain wrong and just plain intrusive, no matter who we're doing it to

at some point i wd hope we wd realize that our hands are not welcome meddlers in the middle east, and we really need to get the fk out


==**peace**==

"baby,
I'd draw yuh bath
like Picasso..

pick you,
like fruit
off yuh family tree. &
eatcha' honeydew ass,
wet"

-Giovanni


"the skilled binder uses no strings or knots, while to unloose what he has bound would be impossible." Lao Tzu

"The logic of divide and rule is still valid today." Capleton

"if i'm smart enough to sneak around and learn to fly a plane to get me and all my friends enough false i.d. to board us airplanes to get me and all my friends through metal detectors and past security guards while hiding weapons to make an entire plane load of people afraid of my boxcutter i doubt i would be stupid enough to leave all the evidence behind in a rental car
unless i wanted you to think i was something that i'm not" (c) 2ndsurvivor

DomePoem Poets; Vibe Nation; One ppl under the spoken word

useful links:
news: http://www.blackelectorate.com/links.asp
veg: http://www.vrg.org

.....

"Who need fossil fuel when the sun ain't goin' nowhere"
- Amiri Baraka

http://www.okayplayer.com/guidelines

BUY MY BOOK- only $6! Inbox me for details

G-Love,

On POINT!

I would have thought we would have realized by now that our hands weren't wanted there...

I keep thinking about Yurugu, to be honest. I keep thinking about the European asili and how it needs to be forfilled and that is what makes all of this so... dire and immediate. In order to forfil that asili, they need (or feel they need) oil. To forfil (one or two l's?) that asili, they need a world that thinks and behaves like them. It's always the same song, the same tune, and unfortunately, they have a cluster of home-grown robots to help it on its way.

I'm disgusted.

Peace,

Q


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^*********^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

"americans are gross!" -utamaroho

Uplifting thoughts:

"We are the end result of our ancestors prayers as they died. We you are the sum total of their answered prayers."

"I am because we are; we are because I am."

"falling in love with somebody's soul...their essence their personality their walk their talk the way they speak and smile...no matter what the physical outer body is..male or female...is a temptation i hope i am never foolish enough to resist." - Hot Damali

____________


"When the revolution comes, "faggots" won't be so funny." - The Last Poets

** Most people mis-read this line. I don't think he is being homophobic. I think he's making sure you folks know, within our communities, those of you who laugh at

>G-Love,
>
>On POINT!
>
>I would have thought we would
>have realized by now that
>our hands weren't wanted there...

History proves that ut would be very dangerous in the long term for the US to abandon the Middle East. (Very Dangerous)
Furtermore, many of the countries want the US presence. (Sudia, Kuwait, Jordan, Egypt just to name a few)Just cause it's their custom does not make it right...(and their, The Talaban, treatment of women is is not right)

We can argue about the values and practices of Western culture all day, but that does not make me side with the against just cause.. The Middle East is no better (boring from Uta the Arab World = Gross) they are just as brutal, controlling, and corrupt if not more (that is without the help of the West) hell at least Western nation allow for diversity.

Anyway in order for a nation to survive in this world it has to operate on other lands. In regards to this situation it's simple
when you get punched, you have to punch back or risk getting your assed kicked. Evaluation and different methods of diplomacy are neccessary as well. Just saying sometimes you have to fight..

https://twitter.com/onnextlevel

Akwaaba

"Just saying sometimes you have to fight.."

Who is the "you" who is doing the fighting?

If your sister gets killed in the crossfire of a gang-related shooting are you gonna hate all of the Bloods or all of the Crips?

Will you side with one or will you be against both?

Both are GROSS in my book...

Check the sig...

SE wo werE fi na wosankofa a yenkyi.

PEace
solarICE

Still representin' the RED, BLACK & GREEN since 1978!
EFF RED, WHITE, & BLUE*!

Ain't a damn thing changed...

*That includes the Panamanian "dummy government setup by you know who" flag.


***Something to think about***

"if the god of these religions (judaism/christianity/islam) is not above using terrorist tactics to make people believe in Him (and what's the big deal if people do Not believe in Him? God is a egomaniac) then why wouldnt the hardcore followers of these faiths have a tendency to terrorism as well?"- yuckwheat

And one more thing:
I AM NOT UTAMAROHO AND HIS VIEWS DON'T NECESSARILY REFLECT MINE!!!

____________________________
"the real pyramids were built with such precision that you can't slide a piece of paper between two 4,000 lb stones, and have shafts perfectly aligned so that you can see a tiny aperture through dozens of these mammoth blocks

Am not sure about that analogy being that my sister would be a third party in an incident. But I would take it out both gangs and have a disdain for all involved in the gang culture...(like I am in reality)

Better one would have been:

If this 6 foot 360 pound guy kept stealing food, picking on, and disrespecting this 5 foot 8 150 pound guy. one day little guy decided to hit him... is he wrong???

The answer is yes and no.. Violence is never an answer to a problem. the result would probaly be him getting his assed kicked (unless he knows martial arts) but they will have to respect you.. (well no they don't) but at the least they know you ain't gonna back down..

Bin Laden would be the little guy if it were not that fact that his ambitions are further beyond respect for Islam.

https://twitter.com/onnextlevel

____________________________
"the real pyramids were built with such precision that you can't slide a piece of paper between two 4,000 lb stones, and have shafts perfectly aligned so that you can see a tiny aperture through dozens of these mammoth blocks

>i have a somalian friend who
>saw a ms magazine lying
>on my couch a few
>years ago and noticed an
>article abt female genital mutilation.
>he blew up, saying that
>the amt of respect for
>women in this country is
>pitiful- at least somalians respect,
>love, and appreciate the women
>in their country

but does gential mutilation exist or not exist in somalia. i doubt ms. magzine's intent was to pass judgment on somalian culture.

>but does gential mutilation exist or
>not exist in somalia. i
>doubt ms. magzine's intent was
>to pass judgment on somalian
>culture.


It exist and has for centuries, however I think the practice was brought down through Arab nations into the region..
(It's not naturally Afrikan)

peace...

https://twitter.com/onnextlevel

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^*********^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

"americans are gross!" -utamaroho

Uplifting thoughts:

"We are the end result of our ancestors prayers as they died. We you are the sum total of their answered prayers."

"I am because we are; we are because I am."

"falling in love with somebody's soul...their essence their personality their walk their talk the way they speak and smile...no matter what the physical outer body is..male or female...is a temptation i hope i am never foolish enough to resist." - Hot Damali

____________


"When the revolution comes, "faggots" won't be so funny." - The Last Poets

** Most people mis-read this line. I don't think he is being homophobic. I think he's making sure you folks know, within our communities, those of you who laugh at

pakistanis and other anti-american factions view of the U.S. is it not equally biased and convoluted?

I am an American.

And I am anti-American.

There are those who would say that my views are biased because I am Black
and male
and gay
and transmesh

because I struggle to eat
wear clothes
keep a roof over my head

because my people were slaves
because they were poor, too
because they struggled and died
or were cowed

But I know that these are all excuses
excuses to not listen to what I have to say
in fear
that it might crack
people's perceptions
and open their eyes.

I know that people of color
tend not to be
as duplicitious
as Americans
They are being bombed
and it seems
to me
they are very resiegned to this
they know they can't do anything
to stop it
giving up bin Laden won't do it
as the US has decided
to go into Iraq
and get the bad guy there, too
and into Pakestan
because they are all Muslims
What I am seeing from Americans
is good ol' rhetorical ethic
or lying
they said they wanted bin laden
and that he was in Afghanistan
why are they going into Pakestan
why are they going into Iraq?

I am an American
who is anti-America
and no, I won't get the hell out
until it takes me back
from wherever the hell it got me
I am anti-American because I know
being so perfectly marginalized
what great harm this country has
because it is off-balance
and if I keep shining
perhaps some balance will come
but I will probably be rotting in my grave
or scattered into the wind
before that happens.

I know this country is built on bias
and no one is ever supposed to look
outside of them or into them too closely.
But I do.
I have to.
My life, the lives of my people, the lives of my Ancestors
the lives of my children
have, do, will depend on it.

It comes down to a matter of trust.
and of babies
how often, do you think
a child has to get bashed in the head
before it recognizes the truth?

We are the children.
America, oh America.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^*********^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

"americans are gross!" -utamaroho

Uplifting thoughts:

"We are the end result of our ancestors prayers as they died. We you are the sum total of their answered prayers."

"I am because we are; we are because I am."

"falling in love with somebody's soul...their essence their personality their walk their talk the way they speak and smile...no matter what the physical outer body is..male or female...is a temptation i hope i am never foolish enough to resist." - Hot Damali

____________


"When the revolution comes, "faggots" won't be so funny." - The Last Poets

** Most people mis-read this line. I don't think he is being homophobic. I think he's making sure you folks know, within our communities, those of you who laugh at

is thatta way.

for not being objective. It isn't as if the Arab world hasn't done enough to YOUR ancestors...

https://twitter.com/onnextlevel

Akwaaba

Fuck 'em both, in my book.

Native Americans live in this land too so should they team up, no correction, SERVE the people/govt who put them on a reservation in the first place?

Terrorists bombs have no names on them therefore anyone could get caught up including Native AMericans.

SE wo werE fi na wosankofa a yenkyi.


PEace
solarICE

Still representin' the RED, BLACK & GREEN since 1978!
EFF RED, WHITE, & BLUE*!

Ain't a damn thing changed...

*That includes the Panamanian "dummy government setup by you know who" flag.


***Something to think about***

"if the god of these religions (judaism/christianity/islam) is not above using terrorist tactics to make people believe in Him (and what's the big deal if people do Not believe in Him? God is a egomaniac) then why wouldnt the hardcore followers of these faiths have a tendency to terrorism as well?"- yuckwheat

And one more thing:
I AM NOT UTAMAROHO AND HIS VIEWS DON'T NECESSARILY REFLECT MINE!!!

____________________________
"the real pyramids were built with such precision that you can't slide a piece of paper between two 4,000 lb stones, and have shafts perfectly aligned so that you can see a tiny aperture through dozens of these mammoth blocks

>
>Fuck 'em both, in my book.
>

I would agree with that, but the problem is that I live in this motherfucker. More important my loved one live in this place. I am willing to defend them.. Hell yeah with every last breath...

I don't defend the US in no way. Just coming from an objective view I have to weigh the options for all parties including the nation in which I reside..

https://twitter.com/onnextlevel

Akwaaba

equal invading Afghanistan.

Defending family means that if someone were to attack you here, you would kick ass. I was telling someone the other day that if america was attacked I would try to get myself and fam out of the country. If i was attacked personally by one of the invaders I would NOT hesitate to put them out of commission...

SE wo werE fi na wosankofa a yenkyi.


PEace
solarICE

Still representin' the RED, BLACK & GREEN since 1978!
EFF RED, WHITE, & BLUE*!

Ain't a damn thing changed...

*That includes the Panamanian "dummy government setup by you know who" flag.


***Something to think about***

"if the god of these religions (judaism/christianity/islam) is not above using terrorist tactics to make people believe in Him (and what's the big deal if people do Not believe in Him? God is a egomaniac) then why wouldnt the hardcore followers of these faiths have a tendency to terrorism as well?"- yuckwheat

And one more thing:
I AM NOT UTAMAROHO AND HIS VIEWS DON'T NECESSARILY REFLECT MINE!!!

____________________________
"the real pyramids were built with such precision that you can't slide a piece of paper between two 4,000 lb stones, and have shafts perfectly aligned so that you can see a tiny aperture through dozens of these mammoth blocks

>I was telling someone the
>other day that if america
>was attacked I would try
>to get myself and fam
>out of the country.
>If i was attacked personally
>by one of the invaders
>I would NOT hesitate to
>put them out of commission...
>

We're talking about terrorist attacks here. The point is trying to prevent these kinds of attacks from happening again cause once they're in place, they're difficult or impossible to defend against. A terrorist attacker is voluntarily putting himself out of commission to put thousands of others out of commission as well. So the point is to try to wipe out the roots and originators of those who plotted and planned these attacks so it's less likely to happen again. How realistic it is to think that we're going to wipe out and find everyone who poses as a terrorist threat is another question.

>We're talking about terrorist attacks here...So the
>point is to try to
>wipe out the roots and
>originators of those who plotted
>and planned these attacks so
>it's less likely to happen
>again.


That's one miniscule part of the point.

Terrorism happens all over the world. Study it--REALLY study it and you'll see that. It's not caused by a handful of 12 people we can grab and put out of comission. It is caused by social, political, economic, military and psychological forces creating a world outlook where that is the only way. And although those actions are MORALLY wrong, that doesn't mean the view that that is the only way to "fight back" isn't logically acurate. I will agree that terrorist activity fucks the chance of your voice ever being heard because the moral reprehensivity closes the ears of anyone that might have listened(after generations of ignoring suffering).


SO THE POINT (as you aptly put it) or GOAL is to end terrorism.

One small and minor objective is to remove those who repeatedly commit terrorist acts.

A more important objective (b/c Osama bin Laden is human and will die of natural causes in maybe 20-30 years) is to end the world conditions: social, economic, political, military, psychological --THAT CREATE SITUATIONS WHERE TERRORISM IS SEEN AS A LEGITIMATE OPTION.


Think USA. Think of how we blame the poor who take up minor drug sales (a la Marijuana) for making a poor MORAL choice. But their choice IS logical... be exploited by McDonald's and struggle, OR sell herb and manage to get by.

would be stepping up before these felt pushed to go to these extremes to be heard. Stepping up and stopping fucked up actions before your innocent bystander ass got hit. Problem is that we aren't just bystanders, we are also benefactors and we've allied ourselves with the US by virtue of not speaking up verbally & physically.

C'mon how you gonna diss the ?uestion like that, of course he wasn't a Fat Boy. Now previous to Roots life, Quest did appear on television. He played Shirley on "What's Happenin?" - fxsnyc 6/19/01

Akwaaba

Say it again for me please.

Besides this ain't my problem.

I'm not american just visiting temporarily until i graduate from school...

SE wo werE fi na wosankofa a yenkyi.


PEace
solarICE

Still representin' the RED, BLACK & GREEN since 1978!
EFF RED, WHITE, & BLUE*!

Ain't a damn thing changed...

*That includes the Panamanian "dummy government setup by you know who" flag.


***Something to think about***

"if the god of these religions (judaism/christianity/islam) is not above using terrorist tactics to make people believe in Him (and what's the big deal if people do Not believe in Him? God is a egomaniac) then why wouldnt the hardcore followers of these faiths have a tendency to terrorism as well?"- yuckwheat

And one more thing:
I AM NOT UTAMAROHO AND HIS VIEWS DON'T NECESSARILY REFLECT MINE!!!

____________________________
"the real pyramids were built with such precision that you can't slide a piece of paper between two 4,000 lb stones, and have shafts perfectly aligned so that you can see a tiny aperture through dozens of these mammoth blocks

>I'm not american just visiting temporarily
>until i graduate from school...

So what are you then shawteh?? " a Afrikan, a Afrikan, and know what's happenin"??

Where are you gonna go after you finish school??

THIS NEED TO BE ON A PUBLIC SHOW OR SOMETHING, CAUSE IT SEEMS LIKE EVERYONE THINKS THAT THIS 9-11 ACT WAS THE FIRST BLOW TO STARTING A WAR..... I GUESS IN THEIR MINDS THE WAR WAS ALREADY ON, AND I THINK THE GOVT. KNEW TOO, THEY JUST DIDN'T TELL US... BUT, ON THE REAL CAN THE NEWS PUT SOME WOMAN FROM AFGHANISTAN ON AND LET HER TELL US HOW IT IS OVER THERE......

"Niggas mad cause Ibrags about the cash I got, but I'm used to not havin alot, I'm from the gutter and ohh..."-Jay-Z

"Expensive shoes worn, Loui Viton see-through gone, CoChes, my face is like a coupon..."Jay-Z

I like it when you type in caps, you should keep doing it, it is very good. dont stop typing in caps.


ThuŠŠP@k€ŽåRåTHû©kYâ

>Here is a speech delivered by
>an Afghan senior official Syyed Rehmatullah Hashmi

he's a politician, what do you expect him to say?
he's no better than dubya or dick cheney or tom ridge or the rest of the old white men in washington.
he'll spit the company line.

Which means that you are viewing all of this through an Euro-American lens... when you can "safely" assume that all "politicians" are alike, you are not allowing for differences according to culture OR history or place.

And as for the Arabs not being any better than Americans... well, I wouldn't quite know about that. Slavery is not a monolithic thing and what is called slavery varies according to the culture in which slavery occurs.

Besides, my Ancestors did not wind up in Arabia.
The wound up in America.

*snaps*

Peace,

Q


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^*********^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

"americans are gross!" -utamaroho

Uplifting thoughts:

"We are the end result of our ancestors prayers as they died. We you are the sum total of their answered prayers."

"I am because we are; we are because I am."

"falling in love with somebody's soul...their essence their personality their walk their talk the way they speak and smile...no matter what the physical outer body is..male or female...is a temptation i hope i am never foolish enough to resist." - Hot Damali

____________


"When the revolution comes, "faggots" won't be so funny." - The Last Poets

** Most people mis-read this line. I don't think he is being homophobic. I think he's making sure you folks know, within our communities, those of you who laugh at

>Which means that you are viewing
>all of this through an
>Euro-American lens... when you can
>"safely" assume that all "politicians"
>are alike, you are not
>allowing for differences according to
>culture OR history or place.

f'ck outta here with that cultural relativism bullllshizm.

straight up, the dude is talking like a politician.

ummm we don't mistreat our women, i mean before 96 they had to stay at home all the time, but um now they can work outside of the home, and ummmm it was because they were getting raped...

at least give me a scholar or regular citizen's viewpoint.

Perhaps the problem is that WE ALL NEED TO BE CULTURAL RELEVATIST!

You say it like it's a curse word -- it isn't. Point-blank, people are NOT the same. People have different cultures and traditions. People have different ways of thinking about things. That, to me, is one of the BIGGEST problems with this damn country -- we like to lump everyone and everything together and its fucking stupid and immature -- at best.

Now, you talk about what he says about women and how they have mistreated women. Um... are we any better? And we don't even have an excuse! (not that there ever is one, but I have to take this dude at his word -- it's HIS country and HIS culture, not mine!) Everyday, in America, women are killed. They are killed by men. Domestic violence. Rape. Come on! Are we any better in our treatment of women? Are women held as equals to men? Fuck no. Of course, men like to give good ol' lip-service, but they still treat women like shit.

Don't give me this pseudo-feminism crap. I have been there and let me tell you, if the average American, Black, white, Asian, Native, etc, knew the stats about women in America... maybe they would think that we should bomb ourselves into submission.




^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^*********^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

"americans are gross!" -utamaroho

Uplifting thoughts:

"We are the end result of our ancestors prayers as they died. We you are the sum total of their answered prayers."

"I am because we are; we are because I am."

"falling in love with somebody's soul...their essence their personality their walk their talk the way they speak and smile...no matter what the physical outer body is..male or female...is a temptation i hope i am never foolish enough to resist." - Hot Damali

____________


"When the revolution comes, "faggots" won't be so funny." - The Last Poets

** Most people mis-read this line. I don't think he is being homophobic. I think he's making sure you folks know, within our communities, those of you who laugh at

>You say it like it's a
>curse word -- it isn't.
>Point-blank, people are NOT the
>same. People have different cultures
>and traditions. People have different
>ways of thinking about things.
>That, to me, is one
>of the BIGGEST problems with
>this damn country -- we
>like to lump everyone and
>everything together and its fucking
>stupid and immature -- at
>best.
>
>Now, you talk about what he
>says about women and how
>they have mistreated women. Um...
>are we any better? And
>we don't even have an
>excuse! (not that there ever
>is one, but I have
>to take this dude at
>his word -- it's HIS
>country and HIS culture, not
>mine!) Everyday, in America, women
>are killed. They are killed
>by men. Domestic violence. Rape.
>Come on! Are we any
>better in our treatment of
>women? Are women held as
>equals to men? Fuck no.
>Of course, men like to
>give good ol' lip-service, but
>they still treat women like
>shit.
>
>Don't give me this pseudo-feminism crap.
>I have been there and
>let me tell you, if
>the average American, Black, white,
>Asian, Native, etc, knew the
>stats about women in America...
>maybe they would think that
>we should bomb ourselves into
>submission.

Is this your true argument.. ???
Come on Dock do better...

>pseudo-feminism crap
Ah man do better..

https://twitter.com/onnextlevel

.........if
>the average American, Black, white,
>Asian, Native, etc, knew the
>stats about women in America...
>maybe they would think that
>we should bomb ourselves into
>submission.

http://www.okayplayer.com/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=2227&forum=DCForumID1&archive=yes

Statistics About Domestic Abuse

DID YOU KNOW THAT:


Approximately 95% of the victims of domestic violence are women.
(Department of Justice figures)
Every 9 seconds in the United States a woman is assaulted and beaten.
4,000,000 women a year are assaulted by their partners.
In the United States, a woman is more likely to be assaulted, injured, raped, or killed by a male partner than by any other type of assailant.
Every day, 4 women are murdered by boyfriends or husbands.
Prison terms for killing husbands are twice as long as for killing wives.
93% of women who killed their mates had been battered by them. 67% killed them to protect themselves and their children at the moment of murder.
25% of all crime is wife assault.
70% of men who batter their partners either sexually or physically abuse their children.
Domestic violence is the number one cause of emergency room visits by women.
73% of the battered women seeking emergency medical services have already separated from the abuser.
Women are most likely to be killed when attempting to leave the abuser. In fact, they're at a 75% higher risk than those who stay.
The number-one cause of women's injuries is abuse at home. This abuse happens more often than car accidents, mugging, and rape combined.
Up to 37% of all women experience battering. This is an estimated 566,000 women in Minnesota alone.
Battering often occurs during pregnancy. One study found that 37% of pregnant women, across all class, race, and educational lines, were physically abused during pregnancy.
60% of all battered women are beaten while they are pregnant.
34% of the female homicide victims over age 15 are killed by their husbands, ex-husbands, or boyfriends.
2/3 of all marriages will experience domestic violence at least once.
Weapons are used in 30% of domestic violence incidents.
Approximately 1,155,600 adult American women have been victims of one or more forcible rapes by their husbands.
Over 90% of murder-suicides involving couples are perpetrated by the man. 19-26% of male spouse-murderers committed suicide.
When only spouse abuse was considered, divorced or separated men committed 79% of the assaults and husbands committed 21%.
Abusive husbands and lovers harass 74% of employed battered women at work, either in person or over the telephone, causing 20% to lose their jobs.
Physical violence in dating relationships ranges from 20-35%.
It is estimated that between 20% to 52% of high school and college age dating couples have engaged in physical abuse.
More than 50% of child abductions result from domestic violence.
Injuries that battered women receive are at least as serious as injuries suffered in 90% of violent felony crimes.
In 1991, only 17 states kept data on reported domestic violence offenses. These reports were limited to murder, rape, robbery, and serious bodily injury.
More than half of battered women stay with their batterer because they do not feel that they can support themselves and their children alone.
In homes where domestic violence occurs, children are abused at a rate 1,500% higher than the national average.
Up to 64% of hospitalized female psychiatric patients have histories of being physically abused as adults.
50% of the homeless women and children in the U.S. are fleeing abuse.
The amount spent to shelter animals is three times the amount spent to provide emergency shelter to women from domestic abuse situations.
Family violence kills as many women every 5 years as the total number of Americans who died in the Vietnam War.


RAPE STATISTICS
(most of these statistics are from an April 23, 1992 report from the National Victim Center)

 In the United States, 1.3 women are raped every minute. That results in 78 rapes each hour, 1872 rapes each day, 56160 rapes each month and 683,280 rapes each year.
 The United States has the world's highest rape rate of the countries that publish such statistics---4 times higher than Germany, 13 times higher than England, and 20 times higher than Japan.
 1 out of every 3 American women will be sexually assaulted in her lifetime.
 1 in 7 women will be raped by her husband.
 61% of all rape cases are victims less than 18 years old. 22% are between the ages of 18 and 24.
 78% of rape victims know the attacker.
 In a survey of college women, 38% reported sexual victimizations which met the legal definition of a rape or attempted rape, yet only 1 out of every 25 reported their assault to the police.
 1 in 4 college women have either been raped or suffered attempted rape.
 In a study of college students, 35% of men indicated some likelihood that they would commit a violent rape of a woman who had fended off an advance if they were assured of getting away with it.
 1 in 12 male students surveyed had committed acts that met the legal definition of rape. Furthermore, 84% of the men who had committed such acts said what they had done was definitely not rape.
 75% of male students and 55% of female students involved in acquaintance rape had been drinking or using drugs.
 Rape has a devastating impact on the mental health of victims. 31% of all victims develop Rape-Related Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (RR-PTSD) sometime in their lifetimes. Based on U.S. Census reports on the number of women in the United States, 1.3 million women currently have RR-PTSD, 3.8 million women have previously had RR-PTSD and roughly 211,000 women will develop RR-PTSD each year.
 When compared with nonvictims, rape victims have been found to be 8.7 times more likely to attempt suicide.
 Only 16% of rapes are ever reported to the police. In a survey of victims who did not report rape or attempted rape to the police, the following was found as to why no report was made: 43% thought nothing could be done, 27% felt it was a private matter, 12% were afraid of police response, and 12% felt it was not important enough.

*****and everything else that ws said on that thread*****

glad you recognize it and spoke about it, cued. (besides those who agreed on the archived thread.)

denial is a mother.
and passing blame is her brother.

Words to ponder over............

5.44. It was We who revealed the Torah (to Moses): therein was guidance and light. By its standard have been judged the Jews, by the prophets who bowed (as in Islám) to Allah's will, by the rabbis and the doctors of law: for to them was entrusted the protection of Allah's book, and they were witnesses thereto: therefore fear not men, but fear Me, and sell not My signs for a miserable price. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are unbelievers.

5.81. If only they had believed in Allah, in the Prophet, and in what hath been revealed to him, never would they have taken them for friends and protectors, but most of them are rebellious wrong-doers.

the biography of Prophet Muhammad (saws):
http://www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/Books/SM_tsn/

The following is paraphrased from today's (10/08/2001) interview with Rumsfeld via sattelite hookup on CBS news this morning:

Gumbel: Can you assess the damages from last nights bombing raids in Kabul?
Rumsfeld: Its too early for any clear assessment

Gumbel: There are reports from the Taliban that there were collateral damages in the forms of Women, children, and elderly, can you confirm or deny these reports

Rumsfeld: There were no civilian casualties, these were all military targets

Gumbel: I thought you said it was too early for any assessment of the raids

Rumsfeld (now squirming in seat): Uhhhhh...ummmmmm.....welllll...i am 'reasonably' sure what I just said was correct

courtesy of abbstrack

subhaanakallahumma (Glory be to you, Oh Allah), wabihamdika (and I praise You). ashhadu anla ilaha illa anta (I bear witness that none has the right to be worshipped except You). astaghfiruka (I seek Your forgiveness), wa atuubu ilaika (and I turn to You in Repentance).

You are using the same stats from feminist organizations here in the US. The same organizations that denounce the Talaban regime..

Is their a feminist movement in Afganistan??

https://twitter.com/onnextlevel

>You are using the same stats
>from feminist organizations here in
>the US. The same organizations
>that denounce the Talaban regime..

q: so what "feminist organizations here in the US. The same organizations that denounce the Talaban regime", provided those stats that i just posted?

>Is their a feminist movement in
>Afganistan??

a: yes.

Words to ponder over............

5.44. It was We who revealed the Torah (to Moses): therein was guidance and light. By its standard have been judged the Jews, by the prophets who bowed (as in Islám) to Allah's will, by the rabbis and the doctors of law: for to them was entrusted the protection of Allah's book, and they were witnesses thereto: therefore fear not men, but fear Me, and sell not My signs for a miserable price. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are unbelievers.

5.81. If only they had believed in Allah, in the Prophet, and in what hath been revealed to him, never would they have taken them for friends and protectors, but most of them are rebellious wrong-doers.

the biography of Prophet Muhammad (saws):
http://www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/Books/SM_tsn/

The following is paraphrased from today's (10/08/2001) interview with Rumsfeld via sattelite hookup on CBS news this morning:

Gumbel: Can you assess the damages from last nights bombing raids in Kabul?
Rumsfeld: Its too early for any clear assessment

Gumbel: There are reports from the Taliban that there were collateral damages in the forms of Women, children, and elderly, can you confirm or deny these reports

Rumsfeld: There were no civilian casualties, these were all military targets

Gumbel: I thought you said it was too early for any assessment of the raids

Rumsfeld (now squirming in seat): Uhhhhh...ummmmmm.....welllll...i am 'reasonably' sure what I just said was correct

courtesy of abbstrack

subhaanakallahumma (Glory be to you, Oh Allah), wabihamdika (and I praise You). ashhadu anla ilaha illa anta (I bear witness that none has the right to be worshipped except You). astaghfiruka (I seek Your forgiveness), wa atuubu ilaika (and I turn to You in Repentance).

>>You are using the same stats
>>from feminist organizations here in
>>the US. The same organizations
>>that denounce the Talaban regime..
>
>q: so what "feminist organizations here
>in the US. The same
>organizations that denounce the Talaban
>regime", provided those stats that
>i just posted?

Just that the feminist movement here cries about women injustices all over the world. Just that you would use an organization that is pretty much against everything you stand for as support for your argument is rather ironic... (not suprising come from you)

>>Is their a feminist movement in
>>Afganistan??
>
>a: yes.

show me.. (and I don't want a puppet organization either)

https://twitter.com/onnextlevel

>Just that the feminist movement here
>cries about women injustices all
>over the world. Just that
>you would use an organization
>that is pretty much against
>everything you stand for as
>support for your argument is
>rather ironic...

That was too funny.

_______________________

>>Just that the feminist movement here
>>cries about women injustices all
>>over the world. Just that
>>you would use an organization
>>that is pretty much against
>>everything you stand for as
>>support for your argument is
>>rather ironic...
>
>That was too funny.

how so?

when there was no mention from me about feminist groups or organizations on anything that i posted in this thread.

the data i posted has no face.

so in other words:
you got caught up in his inability to read. and thought youd get one in there to huh?

clickup (phone hanging up)!-you got ganked! (c) dr. dre on song "radio"

Words to ponder over............

5.44. It was We who revealed the Torah (to Moses): therein was guidance and light. By its standard have been judged the Jews, by the prophets who bowed (as in Islám) to Allah's will, by the rabbis and the doctors of law: for to them was entrusted the protection of Allah's book, and they were witnesses thereto: therefore fear not men, but fear Me, and sell not My signs for a miserable price. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are unbelievers.

5.81. If only they had believed in Allah, in the Prophet, and in what hath been revealed to him, never would they have taken them for friends and protectors, but most of them are rebellious wrong-doers.

the biography of Prophet Muhammad (saws):
http://www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/Books/SM_tsn/

The following is paraphrased from today's (10/08/2001) interview with Rumsfeld via sattelite hookup on CBS news this morning:

Gumbel: Can you assess the damages from last nights bombing raids in Kabul?
Rumsfeld: Its too early for any clear assessment

Gumbel: There are reports from the Taliban that there were collateral damages in the forms of Women, children, and elderly, can you confirm or deny these reports

Rumsfeld: There were no civilian casualties, these were all military targets

Gumbel: I thought you said it was too early for any assessment of the raids

Rumsfeld (now squirming in seat): Uhhhhh...ummmmmm.....welllll...i am 'reasonably' sure what I just said was correct

courtesy of abbstrack

subhaanakallahumma (Glory be to you, Oh Allah), wabihamdika (and I praise You). ashhadu anla ilaha illa anta (I bear witness that none has the right to be worshipped except You). astaghfiruka (I seek Your forgiveness), wa atuubu ilaika (and I turn to You in Repentance).

what I got from what he said was that you sound just like the women's organizations you deride. The same orgs that fight for womens' rights globally.

And further, I'd seen the same stats you posted on another thread about the use of false stats by feminists. Well, if not "false", then sensationalist. Anyway, thinking of all that made me laugh when I saw you put those numbers up to support your point over here.

"How ya like me now?" - Kool Moe Dee.

_______________________

>And further, I'd seen the same
>stats you posted on another
>thread about the use of
>false stats by feminists.
>Well, if not "false", then
>sensationalist.

dont remember doing that. so where is this mysterious thread?
oblivion?

>"How ya like me now?" -
>Kool Moe Dee.

"brother, you're dead wrong........And got the nerve to have them Star Trek shades on!" -L.L. Cool J


Words to ponder over............

5.44. It was We who revealed the Torah (to Moses): therein was guidance and light. By its standard have been judged the Jews, by the prophets who bowed (as in Islám) to Allah's will, by the rabbis and the doctors of law: for to them was entrusted the protection of Allah's book, and they were witnesses thereto: therefore fear not men, but fear Me, and sell not My signs for a miserable price. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are unbelievers.

5.81. If only they had believed in Allah, in the Prophet, and in what hath been revealed to him, never would they have taken them for friends and protectors, but most of them are rebellious wrong-doers.

the biography of Prophet Muhammad (saws):
http://www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/Books/SM_tsn/

The following is paraphrased from today's (10/08/2001) interview with Rumsfeld via sattelite hookup on CBS news this morning:

Gumbel: Can you assess the damages from last nights bombing raids in Kabul?
Rumsfeld: Its too early for any clear assessment

Gumbel: There are reports from the Taliban that there were collateral damages in the forms of Women, children, and elderly, can you confirm or deny these reports

Rumsfeld: There were no civilian casualties, these were all military targets

Gumbel: I thought you said it was too early for any assessment of the raids

Rumsfeld (now squirming in seat): Uhhhhh...ummmmmm.....welllll...i am 'reasonably' sure what I just said was correct

courtesy of abbstrack

subhaanakallahumma (Glory be to you, Oh Allah), wabihamdika (and I praise You). ashhadu anla ilaha illa anta (I bear witness that none has the right to be worshipped except You). astaghfiruka (I seek Your forgiveness), wa atuubu ilaika (and I turn to You in Repentance).

_______________________

>>>You are using the same stats
>>>from feminist organizations here in
>>>the US. The same organizations
>>>that denounce the Talaban regime..
>>
>>q: so what "feminist organizations here
>>in the US. The same
>>organizations that denounce the Talaban
>>regime", provided those stats that
>>i just posted?
>
>Just that the feminist movement here
>cries about women injustices all
>over the world. Just that
>you would use an organization
>that is pretty much against
>everything you stand for as
>support for your argument is
>rather ironic... (not suprising come
>from you)

what/which organization did i use that is pretty much against everything i stand for as support for my arguement, which is rather ironic to you?

i dont see any names of organizations on what i posted.
so what are you talking about, guy?

>>>Is their a feminist movement in
>>>Afganistan??
>>
>>a: yes.
>
>show me.. (and I don't want
>a puppet organization either)

look for it!
w/cha lazy ass.
why dont cha ask jeeves what you just asked me.
maybe he wont be so difficult.

and let us know what you come up w/ while you at it.

Words to ponder over............

5.44. It was We who revealed the Torah (to Moses): therein was guidance and light. By its standard have been judged the Jews, by the prophets who bowed (as in Islám) to Allah's will, by the rabbis and the doctors of law: for to them was entrusted the protection of Allah's book, and they were witnesses thereto: therefore fear not men, but fear Me, and sell not My signs for a miserable price. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are unbelievers.

5.81. If only they had believed in Allah, in the Prophet, and in what hath been revealed to him, never would they have taken them for friends and protectors, but most of them are rebellious wrong-doers.

the biography of Prophet Muhammad (saws):
http://www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/Books/SM_tsn/

The following is paraphrased from today's (10/08/2001) interview with Rumsfeld via sattelite hookup on CBS news this morning:

Gumbel: Can you assess the damages from last nights bombing raids in Kabul?
Rumsfeld: Its too early for any clear assessment

Gumbel: There are reports from the Taliban that there were collateral damages in the forms of Women, children, and elderly, can you confirm or deny these reports

Rumsfeld: There were no civilian casualties, these were all military targets

Gumbel: I thought you said it was too early for any assessment of the raids

Rumsfeld (now squirming in seat): Uhhhhh...ummmmmm.....welllll...i am 'reasonably' sure what I just said was correct

courtesy of abbstrack

subhaanakallahumma (Glory be to you, Oh Allah), wabihamdika (and I praise You). ashhadu anla ilaha illa anta (I bear witness that none has the right to be worshipped except You). astaghfiruka (I seek Your forgiveness), wa atuubu ilaika (and I turn to You in Repentance).

_______________________

Not funny, typical.

The feminist organizations have been under fire for years... normally by Womanist... who see what, I suspect, people like me would see in Queer organizations. Just because oppressed does not mean not raised in it.

Ugh... this is getting messy. What I mean, is that they are doing the same thing their brothers are doing -- helping the war effort and getting women (the main demographic) interested in the war so that they get all riled up and support it.

So much of what is happening over in here in the name of good journalism is nothing more than simply garnering support -- through whatever needs neccessary.

It is our job to see through this, to question, and to ask each other so we don't become... war-mongering folks of color.

Peace,

Q


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^*********^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

"americans are gross!" -utamaroho

Uplifting thoughts:

"We are the end result of our ancestors prayers as they died. We you are the sum total of their answered prayers."

"I am because we are; we are because I am."

"falling in love with somebody's soul...their essence their personality their walk their talk the way they speak and smile...no matter what the physical outer body is..male or female...is a temptation i hope i am never foolish enough to resist." - Hot Damali

____________


"When the revolution comes, "faggots" won't be so funny." - The Last Poets

** Most people mis-read this line. I don't think he is being homophobic. I think he's making sure you folks know, within our communities, those of you who laugh at

>It is our job to see
>through this, to question, and
>to ask each other so
>we don't become... war-mongering folks
>of color.

Yes, but now you seem to have reached the point where you disagree w/EVERYTHING you hear just to be disagreeing. Which makes you seem like a reactionary.

Watch out.

_______________________

That's your preception.

Peace,

Q


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^*********^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

"americans are gross!" -utamaroho

Uplifting thoughts:

"We are the end result of our ancestors prayers as they died. We you are the sum total of their answered prayers."

"I am because we are; we are because I am."

"falling in love with somebody's soul...their essence their personality their walk their talk the way they speak and smile...no matter what the physical outer body is..male or female...is a temptation i hope i am never foolish enough to resist." - Hot Damali

____________


"When the revolution comes, "faggots" won't be so funny." - The Last Poets

** Most people mis-read this line. I don't think he is being homophobic. I think he's making sure you folks know, within our communities, those of you who laugh at

_______________________

Thanks...

You are better than me because I was gonna let dude do HIS OWN homework.

*smiles*

Peace,

Q


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^*********^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

"americans are gross!" -utamaroho

Uplifting thoughts:

"We are the end result of our ancestors prayers as they died. We you are the sum total of their answered prayers."

"I am because we are; we are because I am."

"falling in love with somebody's soul...their essence their personality their walk their talk the way they speak and smile...no matter what the physical outer body is..male or female...is a temptation i hope i am never foolish enough to resist." - Hot Damali

____________


"When the revolution comes, "faggots" won't be so funny." - The Last Poets

** Most people mis-read this line. I don't think he is being homophobic. I think he's making sure you folks know, within our communities, those of you who laugh at

>Now, you talk about what he
>says about women and how
>they have mistreated women. Um...
>are we any better? And
>we don't even have an
>excuse!

not once did I say women have it made in the U.S. of course, misogyny exists wherever there are men... everywhere.

what i'm saying is, if you took a (male) senior official of the US gov't and asked him to talk about the treatment of women in the US, of course he's gonna say that it's good.

But to hell w/that.

I'm a believer in a certain level of human rights. And I don't care about perspectives...some things are just FLAT OUT wrong. What America is doing to Afghanistan is wrong, but that doesn't make what the Taliban is doing to Afghanistan not wrong.

I'm not sure it's okay to stand by and watch it happen, either. Sure, getting involved is messy and all, but still I'm not so willing to say it's the wrong thing to do. Ppl will bring up the WWII example over and over, but what about that one? I think the US was full of shit for not stepping into that situation before Pearl Harbor. Actually, the whole West was full of shit for not stepping in sooner. Hindsight is clear, though. I guess I can understand why they all waited to do something. They were conflicted then just as we are now...but the stakes were even higher.

_______________________

there's no way that the way the Taliban treat women can be justified. That is, if we are getting an accurate portrayal of how they are treated over there.

res->one

-----------------------

And what about how WE treat women... which is something we know... or something we have access to know about if we put forth effort... but we don't... because it has to be... televised.

*rolls eyes*

Peace,

Q

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^*********^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

"americans are gross!" -utamaroho

Uplifting thoughts:

"We are the end result of our ancestors prayers as they died. We you are the sum total of their answered prayers."

"I am because we are; we are because I am."

"falling in love with somebody's soul...their essence their personality their walk their talk the way they speak and smile...no matter what the physical outer body is..male or female...is a temptation i hope i am never foolish enough to resist." - Hot Damali

____________


"When the revolution comes, "faggots" won't be so funny." - The Last Poets

** Most people mis-read this line. I don't think he is being homophobic. I think he's making sure you folks know, within our communities, those of you who laugh at

than they are over there.

*rolls eyes*

_______________________

Western culture is a very open culture and it is (was) becoming more open with time..

Feminism, Homosexuality, Religion, and RACE....

Yep there are very big strides that need to be taken, but honestly speaking I KNOW that if this shit was pulled over in the Middle East...

(STONED, SHOOT, TORTURED, IMPRISONED, ect, ect to death...

peace...

https://twitter.com/onnextlevel

Call me brainwashed. I believe that all ppl were created equal, and that we all have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. I believe in it even more than our govt does.

_______________________

Let's be Honest:

I know people from Aghanistan personally, they don't have anywhere near the same freedoms we do. Simple things we take for granted:

Choosing any religion we want
Dressing how we see fit
QUESTIONING THE GOVERNMENT
Living our lives the way we want to (more or less)

If this was Afghanistan, and we were the precious few that had access to a computer, Internet access, electricity and food.....we would be dead anyway, for daring go criticize & question our leaders.

Which we've all done AT LEAST 100 times.

So while it is "nice" to attempt to not to criticize another culture through American eyes, WE DO need to look at the effects on the people and say to ourselves: "Would I want that happening to me?" "How would I feel if my Mom was stoned to death for just trying to work, in order to keep me from starving to death OR I wish Mom WAS allowed to work, so we'd have some food"

Simplify it to it's least common denominator, WOULD I want that happening to me? Would that happen here?

As for our attacking Afghanistan, it's a freakin tragedy it really is. It's a tragedy that people are getting hurt that have nothing to do with the events that lead to this, it's a tragedy that we're at the point were negotiation, peace and giving in to someone else's demands will make things worse.

Remember, there is propaganda on both sides, Bin Ladin is using religion and so called "attacks on Islam" to justify and gather support for his actions. Bush is using "good & evil" "human rights" "threat to america" "we're innocent" to justify his actions.

Truth be told, both sides have valid points, so let's boil it down:

The 9/11 attacks actually hurt Islam and set back the objectives that Bin Ladin claims to support. Palestine WAS going to be recognized as a state, that's been postponed indefinitely. The Islamic states that we're supposedly occupying? Well, we were invited, long before the Persian Gulf war, and those countries have all asked us to stay.

The 9/11 attacks killed 6,000 civilians and the sole purpose of the attacks was to scare & kill Americans.

We've attacked others to be sure, but have we ever attacked another country strictly for the purpose of spreading fear and killing civilians.

The only sure way to prevent future attacks from Bin Ladin and/or Al Quaida is to destroy them both, there is no reason for this country to believe that changing our actions will get them to "leave us alone".

It also sends a message to other possible terrorists, domestic and foreign...

Someone will always have Beef with the most powerful nation in the world, no matter what it does.

The group that Bin Ladin leads has promised more attacks, Bin Ladin HIMSELF said that Americans would never feel safe, until x, y & z happens. What reason do we have to believe him? Why not just attack Israel directly? Why do something that is hurting the middle east peace process?

We helped him win the war against the soviets, have been providing aid to Afghanistan for years, have even served as a mediator in the Mid East peace process.

Wouldn't a reasonable man, decide that maybe, smashing planes into buildings isnt' the best way to work with us?

Seriously.

In the end, we have a primary threat (Bin Ladin) and a secondary threat in a state that supports him. If we don't want to see 9/11 repeated, we have to destroy him.

I believe that Bin Ladin is war monger, a man that will always find an enemy or reason to fight someone. It doesn't matter what we do, he'll keep attacking....it doesn't take a Genius to figure out that attacking America like that, is going to make this country go after you like a Rapid Pit Bull.

Destroying the WTC to get us to pull out of the Middle East, particularly when we were invited? Please, that's just stupid.

That's like me blowing up one of the buildings of a company I want to work for, in order to get a Job. They're really going to hire me after that.


Peace,






M2

The Blog: http://www.analyticalwealth.com/

An assassin’s life is never easy. Still, it beats being an assassin’s target.

Enjoy your money, but live below your means, lest you become a 70-yr old Wal-Mart Greeter.

Akwaaba

"Destroying the WTC to get us to pull out of the Middle East, particularly when we were invited? Please, that's just stupid."

That's why I personally have a hard time believing that the picture painted for us is all that is cracked up to be.

And one more thing, Bin Laden isn't the Taliban. What they do doesn't necessarily reflect on Bin Laden's actions and vice versa. That mofo is a "guest." From the perspective given, they don't interfere with his matters, nor he with them.


SE wo werE fi na wosankofa a yenkyi.


PEace
solarICE

Still representin' the RED, BLACK & GREEN since 1978!
EFF RED, WHITE, & BLUE*!

Ain't a damn thing changed...

*That includes the Panamanian "dummy government setup by you know who" flag.


***Something to think about***

"if the god of these religions (judaism/christianity/islam) is not above using terrorist tactics to make people believe in Him (and what's the big deal if people do Not believe in Him? God is a egomaniac) then why wouldnt the hardcore followers of these faiths have a tendency to terrorism as well?"- yuckwheat

And one more thing:
I AM NOT UTAMAROHO AND HIS VIEWS DON'T NECESSARILY REFLECT MINE!!!

____________________________
"the real pyramids were built with such precision that you can't slide a piece of paper between two 4,000 lb stones, and have shafts perfectly aligned so that you can see a tiny aperture through dozens of these mammoth blocks

I read this in a major norwegian newspaper (heheh it is small compared to El País and NY Times, but the quality is good):

"Abdul Salim Majali, prime minister of Jordan up to 1998, is now warning the West, saying they musn't avoid looking themselves into the mirror by blaming the middle east for the attacks.
- We have to remove the causes of the frustrations. And this has to do with how the riches and privileges are distributed in this world, says Majali to Dagsavisen (*the newspaper).
- The anger which we can see exploding on the streets is linked with being poor, an impotence. We are now in the middle of a conflict between the poor and the rich in the world. And this is important for the people of the West to realize, he says."

Another place in the article it said:
"But what causes the terrorism isn't only linked to USAs politics or the middle east crisis. Some of the causes can also be found locally, in the political systems, stated an expert from Jordan yesterday.

- Many of our regimes are by the people not seen as worthy of their position and power. Those who oppose these regimes are being tracked down and put under preassure. This is another cause behind the terror, the expert says, who chooses to not have his name printed.

But the professor isn't actually talking about a democracy. Instead he is saying that a ruling system has to build a trust and stability with the people.
- Just look at Jordan. We do not have a democracy, but our king is also not a violent ruler with blood on his hands. And the people knows that without the king we would be thrown into dangerous tribal wars, he says.

With totalitarian regimes such as Iraq and Syria as their closest neighbours, democracy is not the first step on their plan for the future. What many seem to want is stability."


And to throw something more in, from myself. I think it is always important to study as many different opinions to a case as possible, and try to respect each one... so i think it would be more important to read the article in the first post than by skipping it. Something is missing if you only base yourself on one side of an arguement.. or war

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proud okayphotographer: http://www.okayplayer.com/okayphotographers/

"Most of our assumptions have outlived their uselessness." — Marshall McLuhan