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B
Charter member
644 posts
Tue Apr-26-05 12:45 PM

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"Beats, Rhymes, & Life: The Effects of Hip Hop"


          

this is gonna be long. i should probably post it on my blog, but whatever. in writing today's news okp news today, i made a few critical statements, which got me reviewing some of my current thoughts and observations. such as...

the other day in the car as i was listening to kweli, i realized that my daughter (almost 3) is probably not going to ask me what a "nigger" is as a result of a racist episode the way that i asked my mom after being called one in the 2nd grade. if i continue to play the my current musical selections (which i won't; the cut off is her 3rd birthday), she'll be exposed to the word daily, in a completely different context. how do i explain to her that "whites used to (and still do) refer to us as niggers in a hateful way, but when we call ourselves 'nigga,' it's ok. but don't you go saying that word!"

when i was growing up, buying epmd, eric b., ll, pe, nwa, kid 'n play, etc., there were definitely some questionable cuts, but they weren't singles. you wouldn't be hearing "wait 'til you see my dick" on the radio as the hook.

r. kelly, married, singing about hiding in a married women's closet as her husband comes home, pulling out his pistol - why do we get so caught up in the drama of this story and fail to see the results (death, jail time, distrust in relationships, sexually transmitted diseases, cycles of fatherless families).

we talk about free speech. okay. but what about responsibility? if i say i'm going to kill the president, the fbi will be seeing me. if i tell you in a song that i'm fucking your wife and waiting in the closet to shoot you, people want to give me an award (even though i'm still on the hook for that child porn video that supposedly ain't me).

we talk about this being grown folks music, and parent's needing to monitor what their children are exposed to. okay, but if the music is on the radio, mtv, bet all day, every day, and parents are working, trying to get by, how do you accomplish this?

we say we can't blame the music. okay. but where else do we think that that kids get their cues from? when i was growing up, i wanted the sneakers, the sweatsuits, and the rhyme skills. i messed w/ graf, started rhyming and making beats, wanted a fly girl and some loot. i was intrigued by the hustle, and had i not come up in a small town and not had parents who were on me 24/7, i could have let that intrigue get me caught up in something. even still, i did some stuff i'm not proud of now, for "street cred" or whatever we want to call it. that was 20 years ago. today, whenever i'm on the bus i hear kids cursing as if no one is around, talking about stuff that i would have gotten smacked for. they say it takes a village to raise a child, but the villagers on the bus - myself included - ain't saying nothing cuz who knows if this kid's got a gun. two days ago a 12-year old was shot by a 14-year old after an argument. seems like everyday a kid dies in philly. coincidentally, the new beanie seigel's selling well.

it ain't easy growing up, facing whatever circumstances we face. but that can't be an excuse. we're making too many excuses for why men and women can't make relationships work, why cats are getting caught up in the game, why there's a steady achievement gap between black and white students. we don't need anymore excuses. we need answers. and honestly, i don't think we're heading in the right direction. as our creative artists "push the boundaries," you have to wonder, how far can you go? what's left? but most importantly, what is this doing to us?

if it does take a village, when will we feel that it's okay to bring hip-hop back into the plan? this is the voice of the village. but when it's being controlled by money, the village is being exploited, not enriched.

we say that there is positive in the music, even if lyrics that on the surface may appear to be drenched in gun play and misogyny. it's a reflection of society and culture. okay. how do we expect kids to sift through this all and understand the good and the bad? even if they seem to get it on a conscious level, are we looking at the deeper effects? where's the balance? "some women are bitches and ho's," said a young brother on a mtv news clip, "so i treat them like that." how do you tell the difference? what makes you an authority on bitch/ho status, and what is your template?

we say it's entertainment. but honestly, what's entertaining about it?

B

--
now playing: The African American Student's Guide to Excellence in College
on deck: another installment of Okaybooks
archives: Spoken Words | Move Over Girl

www.chance22.com
www.lionsstory.org
www.okayplayer.com/books

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
RE: Beats, Rhymes, & Life: The Effects of Hip Hop
Apr 26th 2005
1
co-sign, co-sign, co-sign
Apr 26th 2005
2
RE: co-sign, co-sign, co-sign
Apr 26th 2005
4
RE: co-sign, co-sign, co-sign
Apr 26th 2005
5
      RE: co-sign, co-sign, co-sign
Apr 27th 2005
21
           RE: co-sign, co-sign, co-sign
Apr 28th 2005
25
RE: co-sign, co-sign, co-sign
Apr 26th 2005
8
RE: co-sign, co-sign, co-sign
Apr 26th 2005
9
      RE: co-sign, co-sign, co-sign
Apr 26th 2005
12
      To help you make the point.
Apr 28th 2005
24
           'The Rapeover' indeed
Apr 28th 2005
26
i was highly upset
Apr 28th 2005
30
      It's madness
Apr 28th 2005
33
           i'm usually tuned into 88.9
Apr 28th 2005
34
                Oneofus-ism is such a hot phrase. I love it.
Apr 28th 2005
36
Cycles, cycles - life runs in cycles
Apr 26th 2005
3
I think we have to have a healthy alternative. U said it urself.
Apr 26th 2005
6
i agree
Apr 26th 2005
10
      RE: i agree
Apr 26th 2005
11
I always respond to these posts - This post is unadulterated bullshit
Apr 26th 2005
13
True...but is it all b.s.?
Apr 26th 2005
14
yes it is.
Apr 26th 2005
15
      Oh, I get ya
Apr 26th 2005
18
      RE: yes it is.
Apr 26th 2005
20
           RE: yes it is.
Apr 28th 2005
37
i agree, HOWEVER
Apr 28th 2005
32
very well written
Apr 26th 2005
16
RE: Beats, Rhymes, & Life: The Effects of Hip Hop
Apr 26th 2005
17
My thoughts on Beats, Rhymes, & Life: The Effects of Hip Hop
Apr 26th 2005
19
      RE: My thoughts on Beats, Rhymes, & Life: The Effects of Hip Hop
Apr 28th 2005
22
           RE: My thoughts on Beats, Rhymes, & Life: The Effects of Hip Hop
Apr 28th 2005
23
           You turned out O.K.
Apr 28th 2005
28
RE: Beats, Rhymes, & Life: The Effects of Hip Hop
Apr 28th 2005
27
first: put music back in schools
Apr 28th 2005
29
Rap Is Part Of Capitalism
Apr 28th 2005
31
whats entertaining about it, is a...
Apr 28th 2005
35
RE: Beats, Rhymes, & Life: The Effects of Hip Hop
Apr 28th 2005
38
Enough with the RHETORIC
Apr 28th 2005
39
RE: Beats, Rhymes, & Life: The Effects of Hip Hop
Apr 28th 2005
40
RE: Beats, Rhymes, & Life: The Effects of Hip Hop
Apr 29th 2005
41

askreamer
Member since Apr 08th 2005
27 posts
Tue Apr-26-05 11:54 AM

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1. "RE: Beats, Rhymes, & Life: The Effects of Hip Hop"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Real talk homie; I got students who I KNOW FOR A FACT don't have food in the house but are rhymin' about their earings. I'm just glad Kweli and them are doing some radio-friendly joints, cuz inspiratoin on the airwaves is far and few between.

  

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Shakeet Lokh Em
Member since Mar 22nd 2005
3451 posts
Tue Apr-26-05 11:57 AM

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2. "co-sign, co-sign, co-sign"
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Apr-26-05 11:59 AM by Shakeet Lokh Em

  

          

There needs to be more responsibility for self within the community, and not all of this apathy crap. Do blacks get the short end of the stick? Of course we do. But can I make that stick work for me? Absolutely.

Music is the language and the pulse of the people. Whatever is going on within hip-hop is what's going on in society. I don't listen to our "urban" radio station here in Baltimore because they're strictly commerical and all they play is garbage. They're in a position to influnce a large body of people with their music selection and constantly choose to flood the airwaves with G-Unit and Lil' John. If they played The Roots or Black Star a few times a week, I guarantee they'll be requests for it. People are hungry for that. The real.

But even with "conscious" rap, you have to be careful. Some artists try to walk the line between making "gangsta" and responsible music. In any event we take responsibility for what our kids listen too. And if it's something I'm trying to shield from them so much, why am I listening to it?






"I'm scientific, but my reflex gangsta"- Black Thought

  

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askreamer
Member since Apr 08th 2005
27 posts
Tue Apr-26-05 12:12 PM

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4. "RE: co-sign, co-sign, co-sign"
In response to Reply # 2


          


>But even with "conscious" rap, you have to be careful. Some
>artists try to walk the line between making "gangsta" and
>responsible music. In any event we take responsibility for
>what our kids listen too. And if it's something I'm trying to
>shield from them so much, why am I listening to it?

yeah, like what the fuck is up w/ Nas dropping "I Can" less than a year after "Oochie Wally?"

would that be 92Q that you're referring to? I haven't lived in charm City in some time, but that was the one when I did.

I do have faith in young people's ability to discern right from wrong, and listen critically to what they hear on a daily basis. The problem is, there's hardly any right to choose from.

  

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Shakeet Lokh Em
Member since Mar 22nd 2005
3451 posts
Tue Apr-26-05 12:44 PM

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5. "RE: co-sign, co-sign, co-sign"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

Yeah I'm talkin about 92q. They phony. They don't even support the local artists here. There are world class musicians in Baltimore, but since they have some common sense about them, they get no love from the radio. Case and point: Fertile Ground. I can't even put into words how ill they are, so I won't try. They've been around the world, but alot of people in Baltimore have never heard of them. It's a crime.

Nas is confused, for real. He was one of my favorite rappers, but he's inconsistent. He's one of the main people talking about being yourself, and awareness in the community, but he flip flop constantly. He's a gangbanger on this song, and then on the next he's telling me "What goes around, comes around..." The Game is the same way. He shows he has a conscious on one track, and on the other murder, murder, murder. It's ridiculous. There is NOTHING cool about death. What does it say about our culture when we glorify that kind of life?

The Roots carry the lantern, Black Star carries the lantern, all of Native Tongue carries the lantern, and most recently Little Brother.
More people need to just be real with themselves and stop being afraid to be "different". And by that I mean making music that actually uplifts. Cuz the same cats that make all this thug music, DON'T LIVE IN THE HOOD ANYMORE. If they love it so much, they should just go back and stop rapping. Be real about it. But they won't. Because they want peace in their lives, just as much as a "backpacker". These thug artists are some of the most phony people on the planet.

The real music is underground. The Harriet Tubman hymns. Freeing slaves from the lies of radio. I like that. I'm gonna put that in my sig.

"I'm scientific, but my reflex gangsta"- Black Thought

  

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jkut24
Member since Sep 27th 2002
4 posts
Wed Apr-27-05 07:52 PM

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21. "RE: co-sign, co-sign, co-sign"
In response to Reply # 5


          

Does anyone remember a guy named Tupac??? He flip-flopped more than anybody, and people called him "real" for it. I could throw some song names out there but you already know all of them.

As people, we change our minds - but moreso, we are apt to feel differently (sometimes resulting in contradiction) about certain subjects for who knows why - depending on what day it is, or what mood we're in, or whatever. I've been to a strip club but if I were to have a daughter one day then my ass would be dead before she filed her employee application there. I smoke occassionally but would never push that on anybody, especially those younger than me. In fact, I would (and do) urge them not to. Does this make me a hypocrite? Maybe. But in some way we all are.
I think it would be a bigger mistake to claim that we feel the same way about everything all the time. Jay-z doesn't feel like Big Pimpin all the time, but I'm sure there have been times (as can be heard in his records) that he just wanted to party and fuck bitches for the night.

While I'm certainly not defending Nas, I just wanted to get that out there. There definitely is too much contradiction like that in music today. But I think the bigger problem is that we glorify and popularize the side of music we could do without - the Big Pimpins and Oochie Wallys. If the people listening weren't buying those records, how many rappers would really be making them?

good post. we need more of this.

  

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Shakeet Lokh Em
Member since Mar 22nd 2005
3451 posts
Thu Apr-28-05 08:04 AM

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25. "RE: co-sign, co-sign, co-sign"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

I understand what you're sayin man, but it's not like it can't be done. Not contradicting yourself to appease the masses I mean. Look at The Roots for example. They've never gone from their base. They've been consistent from 'Do You Want More' all the way to 'The Tipping Point'. Without betraying their integrity or their fans. So it's not impossible. Nas sold out. In the literal sense. He made records to get himself some money. There's nothing wrong with making money, but when you have to stand on both sides of the fence to do it, it just comes off as fake. Black Thought is just as good an emcee as Nas, if not better, but you've never seen him switch up from the real. That's why The Roots get so much love, because they stayed true to themselves. And rightly call themselves 'The LEGENDARY Roots Crew'.

"I'm scientific, but my reflex gangsta"- Black Thought

  

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PleaseNoBakon
Member since Nov 16th 2004
132 posts
Tue Apr-26-05 12:59 PM

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8. "RE: co-sign, co-sign, co-sign"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

>There needs to be more responsibility for self within the
>community, and not all of this apathy crap. Do blacks get the
>short end of the stick? Of course we do. But can I make that
>stick work for me? Absolutely.

I'm not sure what you mean by making this work for you.

>Music is the language and the pulse of the people.

I highly disagree with this statement. Music was the language and the pulse of the people. Now it is not. Certian music may speak to some people in important ways, but by and large, music is nothing more than a commodity. Would Mos droppin the Rapeover joint be distributed by labels if they're weren't a market for it? Hell no. I heard Saul Williams talkin about all the negativity thats on the airwaves and he stated that hip hop has become Republican. Its not about caring, or community or anything else it should be about. It is about making money.


>Whatever is going on within hip-hop is what's going on in society. I >don't listen to our "urban" radio station here in Baltimore because
>they're strictly commerical and all they play is garbage.
>They're in a position to influnce a large body of people with
>their music selection and constantly choose to flood the
>airwaves with G-Unit and Lil' John.

Yeah, I'm from the area too so I know what your sayin. But you don't have to be in the area to understand b/c that shit is everywhere. Why? Because thats what the people in charge of the 2 or 3 companies who own all the radio stations decide to play. Why do they choose to play that instead of the roots or blackstar? Thats a tough one. No respect for the culture or the black community and youth in general is one reason. If they did care, they would act differently. But more importantly, they are giving people what they want.

IMPORTANT LESSON: Things that appeal to people usually appeal to them on the lowest common denominator. It is easy to appeal to peoples base insticts.

>If they played The Roots or Black Star a few times a week, I >guarantee they'll be requests for it. People are hungry for that.

I couldn't disagree more. Some people are, but most don't get down "real" music. If they did, it would be on the radio. It's capitalism at work. And it is pure, free-market capitalism drivin by nothing more than money. There is a big difference between this and responsible capitalism which will take cuts in profits if it's for the greater good.

>The real. But even with "conscious" rap, you have to be careful. Some
>artists try to walk the line between making "gangsta" and
>responsible music. In any event we take responsibility for
>what our kids listen too.

We cant control what our kids see and hear unless we lock them in a box. Whether radio, tv, magazines, the internet, billboards when are we not being bombasted by the media. Pretty much only when we sleep. Its no different for kids. You can't hide it from them or them it. The best you can do is teach them to know right from wrong and hope they are smart/ lucky enough to not get caught up in anything too grimy.



And if it's something I'm trying to
>shield from them so much, why am I listening to it?

Because hopefully you know the difference and don't let it influence you, whereas they are too young to know and are easily misled.

  

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Shakeet Lokh Em
Member since Mar 22nd 2005
3451 posts
Tue Apr-26-05 01:38 PM

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9. "RE: co-sign, co-sign, co-sign"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

"I'm not sure what you mean by making this work for you."

I am an individual. And I take responsibility for myself. There are people who just accept whatever their situation is and go from there. e.g. 'If I'm born into a drug infested area, then that must be all there is to life for me.' There needs to be more education and direction for the youth to let them know they can do whatever they want with their life if they work for it.

"I highly disagree with this statement. Music was the language
and the pulse of the people. Now it is not. Certian music may
speak to some people in important ways, but by and large,
music is nothing more than a commodity. Would Mos droppin the
Rapeover joint be distributed by labels if they're weren't a
market for it? Hell no. I heard Saul Williams talkin about all
the negativity thats on the airwaves and he stated that hip
hop has become Republican. Its not about caring, or community
or anything else it should be about. It is about making
money."

The radio only plays what the people want to hear. Get on an MTA bus or a Metro subway and listen to the headphones of people. G-Unit, Game, Fat Joe, or whatever is hot at the moment is blastin into their ear. That's what they want to hear or they wouldn't have spent $18.99 on a CD. So that's what the radio plays. Now that's not to say these same people wouldn't listen to an OKP artist either. Most of them just haven't been exposed to it. Because the big seller is sex, drugs, and violence. Enter 'The Rapeover'. Mos proved his point most effectively when the track was taken off 'The New Danger' by the powers that be.


"Why do they choose to play that instead of the roots or
blackstar? Thats a tough one. No respect for the culture or
the black community and youth in general is one reason. If
they did care, they would act differently. But more
importantly, they are giving people what they want."

You further prove my point.


"I couldn't disagree more. Some people are, but most don't get
down "real" music. If they did, it would be on the radio. It's
capitalism at work. And it is pure, free-market capitalism
drivin by nothing more than money. There is a big difference
between this and responsible capitalism which will take cuts
in profits if it's for the greater good."

They don't get down to real music because THEY DON'T HEAR IT.
For most people they're only means of music is the radio. They don't have VH1 Soul or for that matter cable. Or the money to experiment with buying 'Like Water For Chocolate' just to see if they like it. They'll listen to what they know they like. Hard beats and so-so lyrics.


"We cant control what our kids see and hear unless we lock them
in a box. Whether radio, tv, magazines, the internet,
billboards when are we not being bombasted by the media.
Pretty much only when we sleep. Its no different for kids. You
can't hide it from them or them it. The best you can do is
teach them to know right from wrong and hope they are smart/
lucky enough to not get caught up in anything too grimy."

That is an apathetic attitude. Of course I can't watch my children 24 hours a day, but the time I do have with them will be positive reinforcement for not just music, but life itself. When I was coming up I was exposed to all the ills that a typical young black man goes through. But the training I recieved from my mother saved my life. And I'm not embellishing. Baltimore City is a beast. So I have to do the same with my kids. Give them all the tools they will need to make the right decision in situations they may find themselves in. Nobody's perfect, so they'll make mistakes, but the mistakes they make won't be fatal ones.

"I'm scientific, but my reflex gangsta"- Black Thought

  

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PleaseNoBakon
Member since Nov 16th 2004
132 posts
Tue Apr-26-05 03:27 PM

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12. "RE: co-sign, co-sign, co-sign"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

>"I'm not sure what you mean by making this work for you."
>
>I am an individual. And I take responsibility for myself.
>There are people who just accept whatever their situation is
>and go from there. e.g. 'If I'm born into a drug infested
>area, then that must be all there is to life for me.' There
>needs to be more education and direction for the youth to let
>them know they can do whatever they want with their life if
>they work for it.

Yeah, I understand your takin the Bill Cosby argument, which is full of merit. I just don't understand "Do blacks get the
>short end of the stick? Of course we do. But can I make that
>stick work for me? Absolutely." How do you make blacks getting the short end of the stick work for you, is all I meant by not understanding.

>
>"I highly disagree with this statement. Music was the
>language
>and the pulse of the people. Now it is not. Certian music may
>speak to some people in important ways, but by and large,
>music is nothing more than a commodity. Would Mos droppin the
>Rapeover joint be distributed by labels if they're weren't a
>market for it? Hell no. I heard Saul Williams talkin about
>all
>the negativity thats on the airwaves and he stated that hip
>hop has become Republican. Its not about caring, or community
>or anything else it should be about. It is about making
>money."
>
>The radio only plays what the people want to hear. Get on an
>MTA bus or a Metro subway and listen to the headphones of
>people. G-Unit, Game, Fat Joe, or whatever is hot at the
>moment is blastin into their ear. That's what they want to
>hear or they wouldn't have spent $18.99 on a CD. So that's
>what the radio plays. Now that's not to say these same people
>wouldn't listen to an OKP artist either. Most of them just
>haven't been exposed to it. Because the big seller is sex,
>drugs, and violence.

Enter 'The Rapeover'. Mos proved his
>point most effectively when the track was taken off 'The New
>Danger' by the powers that be.
>
Good point.
>
>"Why do they choose to play that instead of the roots or
>blackstar? Thats a tough one. No respect for the culture or
>the black community and youth in general is one reason. If
>they did care, they would act differently. But more
>importantly, they are giving people what they want."
>
>My point here is that people don't want okp music. they want Jay-z's 'dumbed down lyrics.' I think you give the masses more credit than I do.

You further prove my point.
>
>
>"I couldn't disagree more. Some people are, but most don't
>get
>down "real" music. If they did, it would be on the radio.
>It's
>capitalism at work. And it is pure, free-market capitalism
>drivin by nothing more than money. There is a big difference
>between this and responsible capitalism which will take cuts
>in profits if it's for the greater good."
>
>They don't get down to real music because THEY DON'T HEAR IT.
>For most people they're only means of music is the radio. They
>don't have VH1 Soul or for that matter cable. Or the money to
>experiment with buying 'Like Water For Chocolate' just to see
>if they like it. They'll listen to what they know they like.
>Hard beats and so-so lyrics.
>
>But these people obviously dont have a problem with what they are listenin to. If they did, they would look somewhere else.

>"We cant control what our kids see and hear unless we lock
>them
>in a box. Whether radio, tv, magazines, the internet,
>billboards when are we not being bombasted by the media.
>Pretty much only when we sleep. Its no different for kids.
>You
>can't hide it from them or them it. The best you can do is
>teach them to know right from wrong and hope they are smart/
>lucky enough to not get caught up in anything too grimy."
>
I don't think its apathetic; its real. And often real is not what we want.

>That is an apathetic attitude. Of course I can't watch my
>children 24 hours a day, but the time I do have with them will
>be positive reinforcement for not just music, but life itself.
>When I was coming up I was exposed to all the ills that a
>typical young black man goes through. But the training I
>recieved from my mother saved my life. And I'm not
>embellishing. Baltimore City is a beast. So I have to do the
>same with my kids. Give them all the tools they will need to
>make the right decision in situations they may find themselves
>in. Nobody's perfect, so they'll make mistakes, but the
>mistakes they make won't be fatal ones.

Thats basically the same thing I said above. "The best you can do is
>teach them to know right from wrong and hope they are smart/
>lucky enough to not get caught up in anything too grimy." Your sayin you need to take a proactive attitude which i agree with. But you can only do so much. I've know folks from shitty places in bmore and dc and the suburbs, many who've turned out better than their original conditions would lead you to expect. But plenty dont turn out good. Just like not all the people i've known from good family's, neighborhoods turn out right. There is only so much a parent can do.

Guru Muktananda is dat Dude!

"Maharshi can't stop me / chakras aren't aligned / samsara in your mind"

'Straight Brahmin'
Fiya!!

  

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Kozmikblak
Member since Sep 10th 2002
1154 posts
Thu Apr-28-05 06:48 AM

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24. "To help you make the point."
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

>The radio only plays what the people want to hear. Get on an
>MTA bus or a Metro subway and listen to the headphones of
>people. G-Unit, Game, Fat Joe, or whatever is hot at the
>moment is blastin into their ear. That's what they want to
>hear or they wouldn't have spent $18.99 on a CD. So that's
>what the radio plays. Now that's not to say these same people
>wouldn't listen to an OKP artist either. Most of them just
>haven't been exposed to it. Because the big seller is sex,
>drugs, and violence. Enter 'The Rapeover'. Mos proved his
>point most effectively when the track was taken off 'The New
>Danger' by the powers that be.
>
>
>"Why do they choose to play that instead of the roots or
>blackstar? Thats a tough one. No respect for the culture or
>the black community and youth in general is one reason. If
>they did care, they would act differently. But more
>importantly, they are giving people what they want."
>
>You further prove my point.
>
>
>"I couldn't disagree more. Some people are, but most don't
>get
>down "real" music. If they did, it would be on the radio.
>It's
>capitalism at work. And it is pure, free-market capitalism
>drivin by nothing more than money. There is a big difference
>between this and responsible capitalism which will take cuts
>in profits if it's for the greater good."
>
>They don't get down to real music because THEY DON'T HEAR IT.
>For most people they're only means of music is the radio. They
>don't have VH1 Soul or for that matter cable. Or the money to
>experiment with buying 'Like Water For Chocolate' just to see
>if they like it. They'll listen to what they know they like.
>Hard beats and so-so lyrics.
>
>
Radio determines what the people want to hear. Check out this article and pay attention to the part about the New York Attorney's probe.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20050426/media_nm/music_universal_dc_1

As a community we are under attack. How many artists have told you that the A&R gives them their image, and tells them what their content should? This is what's hot. If you are not doing this your not going to sell.

----------------------------

"Hope you find a good A&R man" -Diamond D

"...you cats are undercover like GAY rappers dealing with MYSTERY." -Talib Kweli This means you, from Reflection Eternal

"I don't blame Tiger Woods, but I overstand the mental poison that's even worse than drugs" -nas poison

  

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Shakeet Lokh Em
Member since Mar 22nd 2005
3451 posts
Thu Apr-28-05 08:13 AM

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26. "'The Rapeover' indeed"
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

Now if they're doing that underhanded crap to our music, what do you think they're doing on Capitol Hill?.....

Good reference article man.

"I'm scientific, but my reflex gangsta"- Black Thought

  

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LexM
Charter member
28342 posts
Thu Apr-28-05 09:59 AM

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30. "i was highly upset"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

that they had a "who u beefin' wit?" segment on there a few wks ago KNOWING kids are out here dying over bullshit.

wtf part of the game is that?


~~~~
~fear is the mind-killer~

"...jesus had a wife. and she was his
messiah like that stranger may be
yours. who holds the subtle knife that
carves through worlds like magic
doors." ~saul wms

  

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Shakeet Lokh Em
Member since Mar 22nd 2005
3451 posts
Thu Apr-28-05 10:10 AM

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33. "It's madness"
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

I remember when they did that. It's spiritual schizophrenia. And it's highly contagious. The only cure for it is self-respect. It's funny, the only radio station I trust with the truth about anything is ESPN 1300 AM. A sports talk radio station. I'd rather listen to the Dan Patrick show than the glorification of ignorance that's blastin on the FM. It's sad.

"I'm scientific, but my reflex gangsta"- Black Thought

  

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LexM
Charter member
28342 posts
Thu Apr-28-05 10:15 AM

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34. "i'm usually tuned into 88.9"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

if i'm listening to the radio @ all

it seems they used to at least do some more community events and things like that, but now...*shrug*. i dunno.

radio has always always always been important in the lives of youth, and probably always will be. i remember how it was when i was a teenager...

i just wish there was more out there to encourage originality & creativity vs. oneofus-ism.


~~~~
~fear is the mind-killer~

"...jesus had a wife. and she was his
messiah like that stranger may be
yours. who holds the subtle knife that
carves through worlds like magic
doors." ~saul wms

  

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Shakeet Lokh Em
Member since Mar 22nd 2005
3451 posts
Thu Apr-28-05 10:54 AM

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36. "Oneofus-ism is such a hot phrase. I love it."
In response to Reply # 34


  

          

n/m

"I'm scientific, but my reflex gangsta"- Black Thought

  

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Nettrice
Charter member
61747 posts
Tue Apr-26-05 12:03 PM

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3. "Cycles, cycles - life runs in cycles"
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Apr-26-05 12:11 PM by Nettrice

  

          

"New is old - no I'm not no psycho
The monkey on the back makes the best excel
The people in the crowd makes the best rock well
The people in the back lets you know who's whack
And those who lack - the odds are stacked
The one who makes the money is white not black
You might not believe it but it is like that" - Timebomb by Public Enemy

A central purpose of the mind-numbing media barrage is to overwhelm, confuse and intimidate public opinion, especially in the US. Nowadays entertainment is news and vice versa. People are not taught how to critically think about media (or entertainment). What has been going on since the late 80s/early 90s is a merging of rap, hip-hop and entertainment (popular culture). Remember that Little Richard scared the hell out of the white establishment in the 50s and changed popular music forever. Well, hip-hop just took it to the next level. It was/is the "ghetto CNN" and just what is rap music telling people? Not much more than what Little Richard was singing about in the 50s. Really.

Rap music took entertainment and popular culture to another level but no one really dealt with the "health" of Black communities post-Civil Rights. IMHO this is the reason why we stick up for "niggas". It part of the same ol' cycle except this time there are more "little richards", making more $$$ and in the media eye 24-7. It used to just be the white establishment that was shook but now Black folks, including women, are paying attention. The cycle has been there all along:

We form certain expectations of people or events
We communicate those expectations with various cues
People tend to respond to these cues by adjusting their behavior to match them
The result is that the original expectation becomes true

If you look at history and the larger picture you would see that things have not changed all that much. Since we are talking about music and entertainment I brought up Little Richard. My colleague teaches a course on music from the 50s and it is clear how music and what was happening around the music set the stage for the Civil Rights Movement. What did they do with Little Richard? They came up with Pat Boone (and others). That was by design and it's no different today.

>how
>do we expect kids to sift through this all and understand the
>good and the bad? even if they seem to get it on a conscious
>level, are we looking at the deeper effects? where's the
>balance? "some women are bitches and ho's," said a young
>brother on a mtv news clip, "so i treat them like that." how
>do you tell the difference? what makes you an authority on
>bitch/ho status, and what is your template?

Parents, teachers, mentors, etc. These are the folks who set the standards and help form the foundation for young kids. My mother had no problem with me listening to rap music but her thing was rock, r&b. My father was a fan and we used to spend lots of time just listening to Public Enemy, Wu Tang Clan or some other rap artist. We also talked about the same kinds of issues we heard in the songs. I was encouraged to think critically then and now. I noticed how Rakim seldom cursed and never said nigger in his early songs like Microphone Fiend. Later, I taught teachers and students on how to look for the metaphors and interpret the meaning behind the lyrics.

Chuck D told me in an interview that hip-hop isn't anything if you don't control it. How many rap artists are trying to hang on to their music and build? Folks trying to make $$$ just like everyone else. We can't leave it to rap artists. We have to hit the establishment in the pockets if we want to see change.

"In effect - the crew's in check
Run by the posse with the gold around the neck
Homeboys in heat - lookin' for sweet
Ladies in the crowd so they can meet
Somebody to body - makin' a baby
Givin' it to grandma an' makin' her crazy
I'm a MC protector - U.S. defector
South African government wrecker
Panther power - you can feel it in my arm
Lookout y'all I'm a timebomb
Tickin', tockin', all about rockin'
Makin' much dollars while the crazy one's clockin'" - from Timebomb

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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FireBrand
Charter member
145739 posts
Tue Apr-26-05 12:45 PM

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6. "I think we have to have a healthy alternative. U said it urself."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Had ur folks not been on you, u would got caught up. I can honestly say the same goes for me. I think of folk I thought were cool, and woulda hung with had my folks not demanded I finished my homework before I played outside, I think of the things i didn't dare try cus I knew my dad could catch me, and I'd be in trouble or that someone would see me and tell on me.

I mean, folk don't take time to really CARE for their children, to raise them.

And we live in communities where noone is willing to be that a member of that village- to stand up.

Sometimes I do, but I aint gonna lie, sometimes I'm just plain scurred to cus I don't know if shorty has a gun or if momma got a gun and is crazy.


I think afolk gotta say enough is enough and we gotta come together to talk about this shit.

I mean artists that have a so called positive moniker attached to them ...I can't play that shit around elders or kids.

All that cursing

All that gun talk.

Where is the fucking balance? And why are those that were once concerned with that blanace concerned no longer?

Are we at the point where we just gotta say turn of the radio, unlplug the internet and cancel the cable?

I hope not.


www.northernarc.net
www.myspace.com/egyptianknight

Songs that get more run in Springtime:
Tela- Sho'nuff, Brandnewheavies-Sometimes, Showbiz & A.G.-?, JayZ- Can't Knock da Hustle, Buju- Chuck it so.

  

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B
Charter member
644 posts
Tue Apr-26-05 02:35 PM

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10. "i agree"
In response to Reply # 6


          

my mentor in in grad school, who i now work closely with, posed the question "what does it take to raise the village?"

that's the question that i think the hip-hop community - however we define this - has to ask itself.

given that over half of our homes have a single parent, that many of our young black males (and females) are doing time, the homicide rates, etc., etc., what does it take to raise a village that will produce a safe and nurturing environment for our youth? i think hip hop is a core element of this village, b/c i know as a kid, and even into adulthood, it has empowered me, and given me a voice, but we have to be clear on "the other side of the game." we can't continue to ignore the downsides, especially when it concerns out kids. and at the same time, we must be careful to create safe, responsive spaces for this dialogue. i'm not going to attack ying yang for the whisper song, or view them as the enemy. that's the trap that we always seem to fall in. we can waste time and create divisions by battling each other; we need to realize that we're on the same team, but it's a team w/o vision, goals, and a plan.

my folks did a good job in creating a traditional 2-parent village, w/ extended support (god parents, cousins, etc). it wasn't perfect, but the strength came from the home. a lot of kids aren't getting that now, or don't get exposure to a wide variety of experiences. hip hop isn't helping. it often reflects the same despondent reality that the rapper says he/she's trying to escape, or paints a hyper-sexualized/materistic dreamworld that neither the rapper nor the listener has grasped (and even if that have, it's no indication that all of life's problems will be solved).

what does it take to raise the villages that our kids need? what do those villages look like? will hip-hop be part of the solution or part of the problem - it can't fence straddle.

B

  

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The Hammer Man
Member since Apr 09th 2005
1858 posts
Tue Apr-26-05 02:41 PM

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11. "RE: i agree"
In response to Reply # 10


          

i dont know if i've got the right to comment on this but the problem isn't hip hop. its the people who are using it. hip hop as a philosophy, art form, culture etc. is without comparision. but like most things money has had a detrimental influence.

...guess what, you can't swing in scotland either.

  

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k_orr
Charter member
80197 posts
Tue Apr-26-05 04:59 PM

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13. "I always respond to these posts - This post is unadulterated bullshit"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

And you know it.

Of the major factors in a child's life
0) biology and genetics
1) parents
2) immediate family
3) extended family
4) religion
5) school
6) friends
7) neighbors
8) neighborhood
9) city, county, region, state, nation
10) Government

Why would anyone with any semblance of intelligence put "wait till you see my dick" at the top of the list?

Why would you even put it on the list to begin with?

You think cats in Cali is joining gangs cause SNOOP DOGG said it was cool? YOU THINK SNOOP JOINED A GANG CAUSE OF RAP MUSIC? LOL

What kinda fantasy world are you living in?

You think little black teenage girls are getting pregnant because KHIA said "my neck and my back"?

WTF?

Stop your "eloquent ranting" and actually focus on a real issue.
Property taxes? Police brutality? Lack of low-skill jobs?
Inadequate education? hell, i'll even got suave bro on you, PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.

But fucking ying yang?

Like the world is gonna change if we took all the sex and violence off of TV and the radio?

Niggas got hacked the fuck up in Rwanda. You think they was bumping Pac and Biggie while that shit was jumping off?

White folks stay listening to rap, you think Biff and Becky is getting pregnant and shooting up spots for street cred?

There are millions upon millions of black children who've grown up listening to hip hop over the past 26 years - of those few that fucked up and are dead or in jail or teenage mothers or have now knowledge of self - how important do you think hip hop music, albums, or videos really was to the decisions they made in their lives?

Do you people even hear yourselves?
Do you ever really stop to think?
Do you ever go to a black school, see a bunch of cats in Air Force ones, baggy jeans, white t's, and braids - and assume they are *all* impregnating women at night and selling drugs by day? 50%? lol

You watch videos for 5 years, and now you a gangsta? lol.

The cats who go off the deep end, or get caught up (depends on your politics), had way more going on than listening to Cash Money.

And until you folks stop trying to place blame on insignificant and trivial bullshit like radio and video playlists, things will continue on.

Like crack cocaine wasn't running shit during the old school era.

Crime rates have gone down since the mid 80's. If you don't believe me, holla @ the fbi stats.

one
k. orr

  

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Nettrice
Charter member
61747 posts
Tue Apr-26-05 05:11 PM

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14. "True...but is it all b.s.?"
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

People like to pin the blame on rap music...not address the social issues that have been around since waaay before I was born. But since this is about music (art):

Rap music took entertainment and popular culture to another level but no one really dealt with the "health" of Black communities post-Civil Rights. IMHO this is the reason why we stick up for "niggas". It part of the same ol' cycle except this time there are more "little richards", making more $$$ and in the media eye 24-7. It used to just be the white establishment that was shook but now Black folks, including women, are paying attention. The cycle has been there all along:

We form certain expectations of people or events
We communicate those expectations with various cues
People tend to respond to these cues by adjusting their behavior to match them
The result is that the original expectation becomes true

>Like crack cocaine wasn't running shit during the old school
>era.

Yep.

>Crime rates have gone down since the mid 80's. If you don't
>believe me, holla @ the fbi stats.

I believe it.

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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k_orr
Charter member
80197 posts
Tue Apr-26-05 05:19 PM

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15. "yes it is."
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

You hit the nail on the side, when you say folks don't address the social problems of the black community.

These "it's all the media" type posts attempt to lay a large portion for the very social conditions that allegedly made hip hop, on hip hop.

"Hip hop was born in the streets...poverty...despair...outlet for creativity...." - you know the drill. From a downtrodden people comes an uplifting music... This type of propaganda and non-thinkingness is all over OKP, academia, and the world at large.

Yet for some reason, those very same "conditions" that create the music, are now "caused by" or "exacerbated by" the music.

"Before rap I was in a gang. Then I started rapping. Now i'm out the gang, and I rap about gangs, so that creates gangs.

Wait a minute....? I was in a gang.....

Did my raps start the gang that i'm in?" *gets in Delorean*

Listen to 50 Cent, talking bout how he didn't know where Daddy was, and how he was confused about his Mom's lesbianism.

What's more important, his parents, or the fact that his favorite rapper said check out my melody?

Did he get shot 9 times cause of Rakim?

Am I gonna get shot 9 times cause of 50 cent?

one
k. orr

  

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Nettrice
Charter member
61747 posts
Tue Apr-26-05 07:30 PM

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18. "Oh, I get ya"
In response to Reply # 15
Tue Apr-26-05 07:30 PM by Nettrice

  

          

...best believe I get ya but folks seldom want to look at the real issues and that's why they look at the most obvious thing: media and popular culture.

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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B
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644 posts
Tue Apr-26-05 10:28 PM

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20. "RE: yes it is."
In response to Reply # 15


          

good look on the counterflow. definitely want to take in a variety of perspectives.

when i write the okp news and the other stuff i pen, i often don't go into it w/ a specific starting point or theme. i sit down for a second, think about how i feel, look for an angle, then dive in. the ying yang and r. kelly stuff has been on my brain for a minute so i let it fly; my post was an attempt to expand on what wouldn't fit into the okp news.

i definitely don't think that the problems of blacks, americans, the world, solely sit in hip-hop's lap, or even the broader "media." things are much deeper. maybe even on some esoteric spiritual ish, of which i am definitely not versed. but i've got theories...

for me, the bottomline, as a parent and educator is to figure out what does it take to raise the village. what does the village look like? be clear, "wait 'til you see my dick" does not fit into the equation. period. but understanding how/why this song was written, how/why it was released as a single, why we're not only accepting it but bumping it EVERYWHERE, and why no one seems to be asking any questions - these things are important, because this gives a glimpse at some of the bigger issues. it's not just about money. we've been getting fucked, and fucking ourselves, for free for years. we've got to stop fooling ourselves and making excuses. yes, there are other questions to be asked. but the answer to the question i asked today - "do our kids need to be hearing this bullshit" - is "no." there's really no argument.

B

  

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CommonQuest
Member since Sep 07th 2003
76 posts
Thu Apr-28-05 07:53 PM

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37. "RE: yes it is."
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

No, they shouldn't be listening to that and for the life of me, I can't understand how some artists get away with saying things like that in "hit" singles. I don't even want to know WHY kids want to listen to that shit. But there will always be songs that push the limits and yes, it's all for money. Why do kids want to be 50, Iverson, or an actor?? Because they think it's easy.. and because they know they're rich! And with everything we see in tv, we're reminded how "great" the rich have it. What child is satisfied with middle-class when he sees the huge mansions on "MTV Cribz" or the great vacations on "VH1's The Fabulous Life of ." I grew up without watching much television and never really knew that some people would consider me 'poor.' I would see athletes on tv but never knew that they made more money than I could possibly imagine. These days we're always being told how GREAT it is to be rich and how fast some people earned their millions. They fail to tell us all the obstacles and lawsuits Bill Gates' went through before he got rich. Or the fact that he only left Harvard because he knew more about programming than his teachers. They just made it seem like he walked out of school and stepped into chance. A cd that ends up winning Grammys is released titled "College Dropout".. as if hearing about it in the songs weren't enough, by the title-you can clearly tell he didn't graduate college. And then my little brother thinks "even without school, he's RICH!" Yeah but HOW did he get rich? They are too young to understand that life isn't about money, that you don't need money to have a good life, and that those with money worked their asses off (most of them.. like those who weren't born into it or won the lottery). This society, in fact.. every society, revolves around money but that doesn't mean you have to teach your children that. How often do you hear parents say some shit like "stay in school so that you'll get a good job and earn lots of money".. yeaaaa and we wonder why kids want to be 50.. why go to school when we can make money like they did, on the streets.. or sit in our basements and fix our beats/rhymes? Not everyone gets lucky with the chance to get rich off music.. but then again, people will do anything for money. "Have a baby for you? How much will you give me for it?" "Putting all my savings into the stock market might just work!" "I sue anyone and everything because soon enough one will actually work and I'll get PAID!" Everyone is willing to drop money for something they don't need but want. No wonder pockets are getting tight these days, there's more to buy!! There are more luxeries, bigger tvs, faster computers, nicer cars, more stylish apparel, so many more athlete's shoes and other endorsements.. And why shouldn't people care about money? Everything is getting expensive these days, my fucking tuition is 21K a year.. but I grew up knowing money comes and goes, other things are more important. I have only one priority in life, and that is my family. So although the media will feed you one thing.. you can't shield your kids from it.. they'll go to school and hear/see it from their classmates. The best thing I can think of is to show your children they're not missing anything by not being 50 or Iverson..

  

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LexM
Charter member
28342 posts
Thu Apr-28-05 10:08 AM

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32. "i agree, HOWEVER"
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

this culture--possibly more than any other in the world, western or otherwise--is highly influenced by media.

hell, even if you wanna get ppl involved in a good, decent cause, what do you have to do? a tv commercial. preferably jeweled w/ celebrities. otherwise, how would folks even know it *is* a cause? the newspaper? hardly.

so on the one hand, i feel you. social problems are the heart of the issue.

but i also think that a major reason why folks are sleeping on those issues is because of the influence of the (mainstream) media around us.


~~~~
~fear is the mind-killer~

"...jesus had a wife. and she was his
messiah like that stranger may be
yours. who holds the subtle knife that
carves through worlds like magic
doors." ~saul wms

  

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beautifulDISASTER
Member since Dec 29th 2004
853 posts
Tue Apr-26-05 05:34 PM

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16. "very well written"
In response to Reply # 0


          

i agree with everything that you are saying and i have the same questions but no answers...

  

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Anonymous KofDogg
Member since Apr 19th 2005
112 posts
Tue Apr-26-05 06:31 PM

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17. "RE: Beats, Rhymes, & Life: The Effects of Hip Hop"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I agree and I have the same questions, but no answers.

However, I must wonder what motivates kids and people alike to follow what they see on TV? Come on now, it's like nobody has the capacity to think for themselves anymore. We gotta rely on TV to teach us on how to act.

  

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KimPossible
Member since Dec 09th 2002
175 posts
Tue Apr-26-05 08:52 PM

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19. "My thoughts on Beats, Rhymes, & Life: The Effects of Hip Hop"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

I really don't post that much, I am sure you can tell, but I had to for this topic. I agree with much of what was said, and every day I, too see my students fail miserably in English and Math, don't remember that they need a pen and pencil,and think its so, so cool to be disrespectful, but can repeat every rhyme our wack-ass radio stations play (and here it's all the same shite).I don't know how many times a day I remind these junior 50cents that life is not a video, and this hallway is not 106&Park! A few weeks ago the newspaper in my town conducted a Hip-Hop forum on how it is affecting our culture, which I was invited to attend. This was a group of folks from my town (Rochester, NY) teens, and adults from every age group, black, white, whatever, and some local artists, and independent DJ's. The 3 major radio stations that play Hip-Hop (or what they perceive it to be) were invited, including our one and only independently BLACK owned radio station, 104WDKX, (where the call letters stand for Douglass, King, and Malcolm X, mind you)(this station proclaims to be all about our youth), and needless to say they all refused to come.Yeah, Yeah, Payola, I know, I know,its all 'bout the dough! The thoughts conveyed at this meeting were all well spoken, and I was pleased when some older folks asked for explanations regarding the music, so to better understand. One lady asked me "If Hip-Hop is a culture that our youth live, love and are immersed in, why don't they take their culture back?" I was speechless. What to say to that because I too have no answer. It's a struggle. A friend of mine, (also a teacher) created a workshop called (what else?)Beats,Rhymes, & Life...which we presented to students in summer school(jr high-high school age). The basis of the workshop is this: we presented students with a certain hit, for example we used Khia's My neck, My back as one, then went over the lyrics, word by word, watched the video, then held open discussions on how these words affect them. Half of the girls didn't even realize half of the crap they were repeating! But the running line was "The beat is hot". We also introduced them to some old school, and what I guess we'll call "Conscious" hip-hop.For instance we played a tape of Jill Scott doing "You got me" with The Roots at a show we went to, those kids damn near begged us to turn it off. (we did not, i believe in infecting their minds best way I can) The majority did not like it at all!!, they were like "what's the point", or "he sounds broke", (that in reference to Black Thought of all people, cause he wasn't talking about B & A (bling and ass). The comment we received the most was "the radio don't play that stuff".(*sighs*)When asked what they plan to do when they "grow up"?Well folks here is your future:"I want to be....A singer like Ashanti...a rapper like 50...I am going to the NBA..." Where the fuck are the doctors, lawyers, teachers,etc?DAMNDAMNDAMN.(Dream on my little brothers and sisters, Dream on) It took everything in me to not lower my head in shame at these children who look like me, cut from the same cloth as me and respond so positively to negativity! But i teach, and teach them I will continue to do. Could use some help though. Sorry so long, and if I ranted so be it, this is the most I have said on OKP in a year or two. Here is a link to the forum that our newspaper put in, there are pics, and audio, of the discussion if anyone is interested. I am the chic in the brown shirt, with the extra curly 'fro.
Its called is Multimedia:Is Hip-Hop getting a bad rap?

http://www.democratandchronicle.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050417/MULTIMEDIA/50415002

or www.democratanchronicle.com --->click MultiMedia section




~~~~~~~~~PEACE~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



  

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ninarross99
Member since Feb 10th 2005
356 posts
Thu Apr-28-05 03:06 AM

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22. "RE: My thoughts on Beats, Rhymes, & Life: The Effects of Hip Hop"
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

"The basis of the workshop is this: we presented students with a certain hit, for example we used Khia's My neck, My back as one, then went over the lyrics, word by word, watched the video, then held open discussions on how these words affect them. Half of the girls didn't even realize half of the crap they were repeating! But the running line was "The beat is hot". "

I definitely agree...I can recall walking home recently, past a group of young black girls (13, 14, maybe 15 years old) sitting at the bus stop, singing (at the top of their lungs) the lyrics to Khia's "my neck, my back." Now I am not going to be so naive as to say they don't what they are singing about..but chances are it was about 1) a hot beat 2)In a sick/twisted way about Female Empowerment (more on my hip-hop feminist theories later) 3)Being young, hanging out with your friends and feeling the music

I say this because I can remember being in junior high and acting a FOOL!! Listening to crazy music (I wanted to be an "around the way girl" I won't front), singing like I had no sense...but you know what I ended up okay...

However, I did walk away from those girls stunned. I have listened to some well-articulated points above. I definitely cannot say music is the scapegoat to societies ills...however I cannot help but wonder how these current lyrics affect a young girls self-image!!(agree or not, but the lyrics weren't like this 12 years ago!) Granted if she has parents at home telling her she is beautiful, smart and able maybe it doesn't. But for those who's reality is the contrary...

So what can we do about this?? Ideas anyone?
I think being a mentor is Huge, I would like to see more workshops/conversations with young people in hopes of deconstructing the messages and beats they are hearing...

  

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The Hammer Man
Member since Apr 09th 2005
1858 posts
Thu Apr-28-05 03:14 AM

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23. "RE: My thoughts on Beats, Rhymes, & Life: The Effects of Hip Hop"
In response to Reply # 22


          

..i dont have any ideas, but did you know any better at a similar age?

...guess what, you can't swing in scotland either.

  

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Kozmikblak
Member since Sep 10th 2002
1154 posts
Thu Apr-28-05 09:52 AM

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28. "You turned out O.K."
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

How about others in your group?

-----------
"...you cats are undercover like GAY rappers dealing with MYSTERY." -Talib Kweli This means you, from Reflection Eternal

"I don't blame Tiger Woods, but I overstand the mental poison that's even worse than drugs" -nas poison

  

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Ninasnewbag
Member since Apr 27th 2005
20 posts
Thu Apr-28-05 09:27 AM

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27. "RE: Beats, Rhymes, & Life: The Effects of Hip Hop"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Hey,hey,hey

Just want to introduce myself to the members!!! I have so much to say about this topic it is unreal but first... I am new to the board but not new to Okayplayer... Just became an okay member so everybody say hello to Nina...

Just want to comment on the way things are... I am a new single parent (getting a divorce/got two kids by ex) and I have been feeling and thinking the exact same things that were mentioned at the onset of this post. When my children were born I became more conscious of the world and the things my children would be mentally and socially fed. To nurture their spirituality became an all too important step as well as making sure they are aware to the highest degree possible of who they are and who they are not. Which brings me to the "divorcing" I had to do from most mainstream music. Why is it that alot of artists that get radio play in our community only speak on guns, drugs, and sex? And why is it that Black America is so tolerant of this? I could not for the life of me understand how a parent could allow their children to listen to music or watch movies that will definitely influence the way they look at things and the way they view themselves in the world... And if you do allow that are you combatting those negative images and stereotypes with the truth?
Better still, how can we make a change so that our children and children's children don't get worse but better?

  

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LexM
Charter member
28342 posts
Thu Apr-28-05 09:57 AM

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29. "first: put music back in schools"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

i played in a band & jazz ensemble in elementary school. i grew up listening to a lot of r&b with a mother who grew up on jazz.

when i really started paying attention to samples in the early-mid 90s, i recognized quite a few. i know what "real singers" sound like. i know what a voice can do outside of a lot of slick production.

when ppl know the basics of instrumentation, they become more wary of the b.s. plus, numerous studies have been done linking the learning of musical fundamentals to other higher brain functions in kids & young adolescents.

that said, parenting is definitely an issue. there is much less of a generation gap, and i think that contributes a LOT to what these kids are facing. they aren't exposed to anything outside themselves & their street. their parents (and, in some cases, grandparents) haven't lived their lives fully....how can they be expected to see a wider world? everyone's caught up in their own situation.

on the other hand, a great deal of that is the culture as a whole. western culture flourished under the banners of individualism and capatalism. to see something "wrong" with that is to deprogram in a way many people are going to find difficult.

black people, traditionally, have held on to the communal aspects more than many other immigrants--for various reasons. however, now that slavery and (obvious) jim crow-ism are out of the way, we're seeing "our" kids take on the more negative aspects of the dominant culture. it's always happened (see: house nigs vs. field nigs), now it's just more prominent.

but you also have to factor in the environmental issues:
the affects of diseases like asthma & lead poisioning
drug addiction
malnutrition (don't sleep)
etc.

it's really complex.

  

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kaytomah
Member since Oct 22nd 2004
891 posts
Thu Apr-28-05 10:07 AM

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31. "Rap Is Part Of Capitalism"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I read everything and I think No one suggested the most important fact about the path hip hop culture is taking, Capitalism. Of course, Tate said it best when he stress that hip hop was first pimped by African-American & Latinos. Along the way folks who grew up admiring T. Montana and reaganomic or were direct victims of Ray-Gun policies and Bush 1 "war on drugs" realized that shit I can do the same thing...this is why niggas are going for theirs. Economics and capitalism has become so primary in folks' lives that everything is forgotten and eventually this is what will Murder our culture...the greed of our griots!

I grew up admiring folks like Steve Biko, George Jackson, Marley and Krs-One. Importantly, I grew up admiring my grandmother and the values that she was teaching. So when I came to the US, I had a foundation that was solid and I knew that my acts must reflect these value system that I was taught. As a result, I like BDP, Brand Nubian, Paris, The Coup, ATCQ, JB, Jamalski, YZ, PE, PRT...

The fact is hip hop can mean many things to different folks and we, the consumers must make make artist meet our needs. I learned about the Panthers through hip hop, so it really come down to who you or what foundation that child has...Let's give every child we know that listen to hip hop a mix disc to teach them




Yo, I love the way I am and canít nobody out here change me
Rearrange me, tame me, try to game me, you donít play me
When I grab the mic then shock the party spot
Your rhymes are flip-flop, Iíll rock, hip-hop
Non-stop, me nah stop rock
You can touch

  

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blaXXX
Member since Dec 01st 2004
1649 posts
Thu Apr-28-05 10:44 AM

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35. "whats entertaining about it, is a..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

question for White-Racism, don't you think?

After all, that IS WHAT they go out and buy to help Black rapping-misogynists---go platinum right?

They don't go buy the conscious message, do they? hmmmm...your children and students are JUST LIKE US they use the television/radio/surroundings to shape their aspirations-----its about who is there to help them distinguish veracious Black Life from "fake-Equality"...right? You would likely be awed w/ the amt. of times I MYSELF am asked why do I 'waste time' creating rap/lyricism within my OWN veRAPcity styles at that link below...I'm amused now, when folk challenge me about why do I disseminate conscious messages vs. buy into creating what could, and does, make niggus RICH

Same conceptuality goes for the epmd's and other old-skool Acts you alluded to----they did the EXACT SAME thing 50 Cent/Ying Yang types do NOW...right? Difference is, rap was brand new then; existing within boundaries of THAT PARTICULAR PLACE IN TIME which did not allow for the vulgarity that the FCC paves the way for today.

You think you take issues with this TODAY?-----What until 15-20 years from now!!!! I HATE imagining what they'll MAKE SURE they give niggus/Blackfolk the venue & forums for, to ensure that we keep helping perpetuate that "Image" which White's Powerful Racism needs...for validating CONTINUALLY entrenching us in 2nd-Class citizenship we absorb here.

Entertainment is ALL THAT they gave us, since The Slave Trade...right? Who entertained Massah' and his Slave-owning friends? The Slave Trade had an Oprah, an few MJ's as well...folk who, along with house niggus, were those Blacks which White-racists allowed to 'somewhat' Prosper during those Times...this is FACT. For, even then, our ability to ENTERTAIN was priceless.

Today, this society WILLFULLY & INTENTIONALLY refuses to esteem Black Professionals (as equally as Black Entertainers) unless, they 'peculiarly' stay silent about veracious White-Racism...Moreover, you saw the recent Corporate Scandals right? When the ENRONS/WorldComs/ArthurAndersen/Halliburton scandal-players w/ access to Multitudes of Million$, began exiting limo's to enter Courtrooms, and enter lucrative Playboy Magz. photo-shoots ------where THE HELL were the HI-honor HBCU grads?

50 years we've been receiving "those" school's Diplomas and no NIGGU aspired to be there in Corporate repping our "13% Black populous" within those Executive positions of Corporations existing as the REAL Face of America to the World?????? And, we can't HIDE from the fact that its the SAME scenario for Blackfolk throughout all of Corporate America. Yet, many of us self-proclaimed 'strong' Blackfolk have NOOOOO problem with OUR youth growing-up to wear suits to work everyday-----to go chase THAT fake-Equality.

I pray for your increased cognizance toward the REAL factors that yielded a 50 cent/Ying Yang Twins/Dip Set/gangsta rap/etc.-----and to hopefully cease blaming them for being creative, with that which Racism gave them----try blaming fake-Equality that caused them to become what we hear.

I can't do what they do, in my material; but I much rather hear/know that they rap about that vulgarity, versus hear that they wound up somewhere bowing-down TUMULTOUSLY to White-Racism----Condi Rice/Clarence Thomas style!!

And lastly, your piece was long-----just as you said it would be-----and I enjoyed it plus revere it because, I felt you inadvertantly made A GREAT case for Blackfolk's "Reparation for Separation!" Effort...and I'm appreciative of that.

holla

____ _____ _____

*--> www.soundclick.com/blaXXX <--*

*~* Go ahead! EXPERIENCE the latest non-Profit joint!*~*

____ _____ _____

blaXXX' breviaries: 2005---And we coulda saved more...if they ONLY KNEW they were Slaves
____

  

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fuulblass
Charter member
548 posts
Thu Apr-28-05 08:47 PM

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38. "RE: Beats, Rhymes, & Life: The Effects of Hip Hop"
In response to Reply # 0


          

your last question leaves me confused...what's entertaining about?...perhaps it's a rhetoric

well executed. you must have been thinking about this for awhile

  

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AmenRA
Member since Apr 03rd 2005
313 posts
Thu Apr-28-05 09:06 PM

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39. "Enough with the RHETORIC"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

"You ain't saying nuttin new"

You can't talk about Shit-Hop without talking about the money or profitability that it brings to White Amerikkka and a small percentage of negroes.....This is not some reactionary bullshit, blaming the white man, but the reality of the situtaiton is Shit-Hop as we know it, is largely marketed towards white teenagers. Shit-Hop is just like any other money making scheme that a small percentage of Black folk benefit from...WE generate WEALTH for White Folk; Therefore, when you talk about the death of "hip-hop", you must address the fundamental issue, which is much more than lack of responsibility. If Black folk are apathetic about most of the issues that affect them in this country, what in the hell makes you think that we will use any energy in reclaiming "our" ART.

In the long run, Rappers are not loyal to their race or ethnic group, but to Capitalism......

***********************************

  

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killa66
Member since Apr 20th 2005
111 posts
Thu Apr-28-05 10:44 PM

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40. "RE: Beats, Rhymes, & Life: The Effects of Hip Hop"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Just be a good parent.

fuck you

  

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dome
Charter member
709 posts
Fri Apr-29-05 01:01 AM

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41. "RE: Beats, Rhymes, & Life: The Effects of Hip Hop"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Not the definitive answer to solve Hiphop's problems by any means but just a start...check it out:
www.thefoundationonline.net and www.ipetitions.com/campaigns/hiphop

  

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