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Subject: "Who would you vote for today? Dem Primary-Second Poll: " This topic is locked.
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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
12501 posts
Thu Aug-08-19 03:42 PM

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"Poll question: Who would you vote for today? Dem Primary-Second Poll: "
Thu Aug-08-19 03:48 PM by mista k5

  

          

now that weve heard from the candidates who would you vote for if your primary was today?

9 have qualified for the next round of debates. i wonder how many will still be in the running by the time the next debate happens.

ALL REQUIREMENTS MET
Joe Biden - Former vice president
Cory Booker - Senator from New Jersey
Pete Buttigieg - Mayor of South Bend, Ind.
Kamala Harris - Senator from California
Amy Klobuchar - Senator from Minnesota
Beto O'Rourke - Former representative from Texas' 16th District
Bernie Sanders - Senator from Vermont
Elizabeth Warren - Senator from Massachusetts
Andrew Yang - Founder of Venture for America

DONOR REQUIREMENT MET
Julián Castro - Former secretary of housing and urban development
Tulsi Gabbard - Representative from Hawaii's 2nd District

NO REQUIREMENTS MET
Michael Bennet - Senator from Colorado
Steve Bullock - Governor of Montana
Bill de Blasio - Mayor of New York City
John Delaney - Former representative from Maryland's 6th District
Kirsten Gillibrand - Senator from New York
John Hickenlooper - Former governor of Colorado
Jay Inslee - Governor of Washington
Wayne Messam - Mayor of Miramar, Fla.
Seth Moulton - Representative from Massachusetts' 6th District
Tim Ryan - Representative from Ohio's 13th District
Joe Sestak - Former representative from Pennsylvania's 7th District
Tom Steyer - Billionaire business executive, activist
Marianne Williamson - Spiritual guru, entrepreneur

FYI
Who do you want to win the Dem nomination? (Initial Poll)
Poll result (87 votes)
Kamala Harris (16 votes) Vote
Joe Biden (4 votes) Vote
Bernie Sanders (35 votes) Vote
Beto O'Rourke (11 votes) Vote
Elizabeth Warren (13 votes) Vote
Other (post below) (8 votes) Vote

*edited for less scroll

Poll result (92 votes)
Joe Biden (6 votes)Vote
Bernie Sanders (19 votes)Vote
Elizabeth Warren (53 votes)Vote
Kamala Harris (4 votes)Vote
Pete Buttigieg (4 votes)Vote
Other (6 votes)Vote

  

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
im off beto and on to warren
Aug 08th 2019
1
I think the ticket should be Warren/Buttigieg or Warren/Harris
Aug 08th 2019
2
warren. most dems polled say warren
Aug 08th 2019
3
I don't see this:
Aug 08th 2019
9
      how far should we really be going back?
Aug 09th 2019
23
      Yeah the pro-Biden argument is pretty selective
Aug 09th 2019
33
      i see both sides of it
Aug 09th 2019
34
           Fair but Warren seems to have a plan for that lol
Aug 09th 2019
37
                i thought biden was the most electable til he actually started running.
Aug 09th 2019
38
                     Definitely
Aug 10th 2019
44
      McCain/Palin is a particularly interesting case, though.
Aug 09th 2019
40
           Trump was not the moderate.
Aug 10th 2019
43
                trump was viewed as the moderate to a lot of people.
Aug 10th 2019
49
                Sure but you could use the very data you posted
Aug 10th 2019
54
                Respectfully, I think you're suffering from partisan blinders.
Aug 10th 2019
50
                n/m
Aug 12th 2019
57
                Maybe, but to be fair
Aug 12th 2019
64
                Correct Trump is not a moderate but you are discussing this with
Aug 12th 2019
58
                     For the record I never said he was a moderate.
Aug 12th 2019
59
                          Ok let me correct my post. Trump is seen as moderate by unicorns
Aug 12th 2019
65
                               So you're ignoring data that goes against your preconceptions.
Aug 12th 2019
74
                                    No I'm challenging the argument because it is weak.
Aug 13th 2019
75
      LOL
Sep 17th 2019
424
btw medicare for all is a political loser (ive been saying for a while).
Aug 08th 2019
4
i think making private insurance illegal is a loser
Aug 08th 2019
5
The Issues: Politico Guide to Candidates
Aug 08th 2019
6
still the same as 2016: Bernie is the only real option
Aug 08th 2019
7
what’s up with Yang?
Aug 08th 2019
8
this piece he wrote on gun control is so fucking on point
Aug 09th 2019
11
Wrong Yang, but that seems authoritarian as hell
Aug 09th 2019
13
i think she was asking about Andrew Yang, not Jeff
Aug 09th 2019
16
      Oh shit haha, my quick-skimming ass fell for it too smh
Aug 09th 2019
17
           when i started reading it i thought what a coincedence
Aug 09th 2019
18
                We got hosed lol
Aug 09th 2019
19
My fav thing bout Yang: enthusiasm 4 problem-solving over politics
Aug 09th 2019
20
All you need to know about Yang
Aug 09th 2019
25
he needs a cabinet seat for sure.. dude is on point.
Aug 13th 2019
78
He's really unconvincing when he cries.
Aug 13th 2019
80
      I thought I was the only one
Aug 14th 2019
105
I wanted Warren to run last time
Aug 08th 2019
10
Tulsi first...Yang and Bernie tied close behind her...Warren acceptable
Aug 09th 2019
12
As of right now, I want a Warren/Castro ticket.
Aug 09th 2019
14
I like the that Castro is an urban dev guy. Id send him my ideas lol
Aug 09th 2019
15
Warren, then maybe Kamala
Aug 09th 2019
21
Warren but I'm not convinced she can win
Aug 09th 2019
22
I read a tweet recently that was like, stop worrying about "electability...
Aug 09th 2019
24
yeah Biden looks even older than I thought
Aug 09th 2019
26
i mean on one hand i agree
Aug 09th 2019
30
      That tweet made no declaration about who should win lol
Aug 09th 2019
31
           oh i know
Aug 09th 2019
32
                Hahah word and in that case - co-sign.
Aug 09th 2019
36
RE: Warren but I'm not convinced she can win
Aug 09th 2019
28
      LOL - exactly.
Aug 09th 2019
29
      lol she got the russian government playing defense for her.
Aug 09th 2019
39
Slate’s guide to the presidential candidates
Aug 09th 2019
27
bernie all day every day
Aug 09th 2019
35
poor Bernie, clearly the best choice but cant catch a break
Aug 09th 2019
41
I like that Joe Rogan podcast the other day
Aug 09th 2019
42
      if you ever listen to bernie explain why he wants to do things
Aug 12th 2019
56
Ideas for Warrens VP?
Aug 10th 2019
45
ideally a black moderate.
Aug 10th 2019
46
I agree but any ideas on who specifically?
Aug 10th 2019
48
Castro Castro Castro!
Aug 10th 2019
52
I really like Castro actually
Aug 12th 2019
61
Interesting. I love Castro but don't see a particularly strong coalition
Aug 12th 2019
62
      oddly enough (or not) i dont see latinos being excited for a latino
Aug 12th 2019
63
           Lol not odd at all, and I feel you 100%. Another ex: I'm a black female
Aug 12th 2019
66
she needs Bernie and vice versa..
Aug 13th 2019
79
btw if warren wins office then a repub gov picks her replacement.
Aug 10th 2019
47
Ain't nooooo one tlking about this
Aug 10th 2019
51
Shit, somehow even I wasn't aware of this.
Aug 10th 2019
53
Well, she's pretty much already endorsed Joe Kennedy III's run if
Aug 12th 2019
60
      warren herself isnt that popular in massachusetts
Aug 12th 2019
67
           Oh absolutely! I wasn't trying to imply that they aren't lol
Aug 12th 2019
69
                yeah on paper its a race that dems *should* win
Aug 12th 2019
70
                     Right. Ya I also think the dynastic element is an asset too, as wack
Aug 12th 2019
71
Andrew Yang or Warren
Aug 11th 2019
55
I feel like the practical democratic nominee never wins
Aug 12th 2019
68
'democrats fall in love. republicans fall in line.'
Aug 12th 2019
72
I think Sanders/Warren is a winning ticket, with
Aug 12th 2019
73
That sounds awesome tbh
Aug 13th 2019
76
horrible move. that would likely alienate large swaths of the base.
Aug 13th 2019
81
      Yeah, that's just a redundant ticket to me. I don't understand why you
Aug 13th 2019
82
           this would be the smart thing to do but egos.
Aug 13th 2019
83
                RE: this would be the smart thing to do but egos.
Aug 13th 2019
88
                     bernie isnt really running a good campaign.
Aug 13th 2019
91
Bernie/Warren or Warren/Bernie ticket will be powerful as fuck...
Aug 13th 2019
77
they would objectively do worse than clinton/kaine.
Aug 13th 2019
84
lol what wildshit are you basing this on?
Aug 13th 2019
89
real life lol.
Aug 13th 2019
90
      so nothing.. thanks.
Aug 13th 2019
92
           did you miss 2018?
Aug 14th 2019
104
LOL @ "objectively"
Aug 13th 2019
94
      big sparta feel free to join in.
Aug 14th 2019
112
No data to support my musings but: I feel like if Sanders won the nom
Aug 13th 2019
96
      im more and more suspicious of pete (for no real good reason)
Aug 13th 2019
97
           Lol!
Aug 13th 2019
98
Harris and the rest of the field minus Tulsi as her cabinet.
Aug 13th 2019
85
Other Votes - check in
Aug 13th 2019
86
Delaney!
Aug 13th 2019
87
I need to see that parody commercial.
Aug 13th 2019
93
      That cold-blooded Bill Dauterive-looking goon would do it
Aug 14th 2019
99
I like Warren at this point. But I need folks to drop out to be sure
Aug 13th 2019
95
RE: I like Warren at this point. But I need folks to drop out to be sure
Aug 14th 2019
100
      ^^^^ Bernie Sanders.
Aug 14th 2019
101
      lol dudes 1st post he came in *hot*.
Aug 14th 2019
102
      lol i didnt even notice that
Aug 14th 2019
103
           his stats are a pretty damning indictment of bernie as a candidate.
Aug 14th 2019
107
           His "me against the world" mentality isn't helping either.
Aug 14th 2019
109
           yeah dude is repelling even people who like his policies.
Aug 14th 2019
111
                I get lower on Bernie the more I interact/read/hear his supporters
Aug 14th 2019
130
                     dude is acting like bernie wasnt the clear okp poll frontrunner
Aug 14th 2019
135
                     RE: dude is acting like bernie wasnt the clear okp poll frontrunner
Aug 14th 2019
144
                     RE: I get lower on Bernie the more I interact/read/hear his supporters
Aug 14th 2019
142
           RE: his stats are a pretty damning indictment of bernie as a candidate.
Aug 14th 2019
113
           Hell yeah, dude
Aug 14th 2019
114
           warren isnt a fighter? shes a weapon of the establishment???
Aug 14th 2019
115
                RE: warren isnt a fighter? shes a weapon of the establishment???
Aug 14th 2019
117
                cmon fam you gotta admit this is some trumpian goalpost moving.
Aug 14th 2019
132
                     RE: cmon fam you gotta admit this is some trumpian goalpost moving.
Aug 14th 2019
134
                          wait youre co-opting amazon damage control pr statements now
Aug 14th 2019
136
                               RE: wait youre co-opting amazon damage control pr statements now
Aug 14th 2019
138
                Thank you.
Aug 14th 2019
118
           warren isn't running the same platform
Aug 16th 2019
170
           upon further review: mods please delete my comment
Aug 14th 2019
133
      Pretty sure it's a Vex alias.
Aug 14th 2019
121
           RE: Pretty sure it's a Vex alias.
Aug 14th 2019
123
           LOL, true, we are a very selective group.
Aug 14th 2019
124
           Hahaha
Aug 14th 2019
125
           lol
Aug 14th 2019
127
           lol honestly had the same thought
Aug 14th 2019
131
           lol glad to see even after a long absence, I'm still on your mind
Aug 14th 2019
139
      bernie isnt even the 1st choice for 2016 *bernie* voters anymore lol.
Aug 14th 2019
106
      Not the person you're talking to, but this is the counter argument
Aug 14th 2019
108
      thats typical of early polling.
Aug 14th 2019
110
      that's true and an important point, but the question is:
Aug 14th 2019
140
           warrens achilles heel might be black voters.
Aug 14th 2019
141
                Define "the black vote" though..
Aug 14th 2019
146
                oh im just using it as shorthand for the majority of black voters.
Aug 14th 2019
148
                     right, I hear ya
Aug 14th 2019
150
                how much of warren's inability to reach black voters is based on
Aug 16th 2019
161
                yeah black voters more often support
Aug 16th 2019
188
                Biden is being buoyed by black voters (just like Clinton was)
Aug 16th 2019
180
                     yup to all this.
Aug 16th 2019
189
      well this tells me who NOT to vote for, LMAO
Aug 14th 2019
126
           RE: well this tells me who NOT to vote for, LMAO
Aug 14th 2019
128
           BRUH, LMAO
Aug 16th 2019
171
                Right? lol The #NeverBernie movement is real.
Aug 16th 2019
179
                     yall do realize the point of elections is to win the most votes right?
Aug 16th 2019
202
                          That's the thing. Vex and this new dude consider this "trashing"
Aug 16th 2019
206
                          RE: That's the thing. Vex and this new dude consider this "trashing"
Aug 16th 2019
217
                          not sure why this even needed to be said.
Aug 16th 2019
215
Do Dems need to come to terms that HRC was the wrong candidate in 2016?
Aug 14th 2019
116
Yea probably.
Aug 14th 2019
120
LOLOL
Aug 16th 2019
172
Of course they do - and of course (most) of them won't.
Aug 16th 2019
194
      you are absolutely correct.
Aug 19th 2019
239
I've been paying more attention to Tulsi Gabbard lately.
Aug 14th 2019
119
Pass on Tulsi Gabbard
Aug 14th 2019
122
      yea isn't she BFF's with Putin?
Aug 14th 2019
137
      Take off the blinders, put the strawman down
Aug 14th 2019
143
           ok - let's debate it.
Aug 14th 2019
145
                Tulsi wasn't going to get anything out of it.
Aug 14th 2019
147
                     Tulsi out here calling homosexuals extremists
Aug 15th 2019
151
                     Yep that too
Aug 15th 2019
153
                     RE: Tulsi out here calling homosexuals extremists
Aug 16th 2019
157
                          She did say it tho, although she's now apologizing.
Aug 16th 2019
173
                          RE: Tulsi out here calling homosexuals extremists
Aug 16th 2019
174
                               RE: Tulsi out here calling homosexuals extremists
Aug 16th 2019
178
                     It shows poor leadership to meet leaders of another country?
Aug 16th 2019
158
                          RE: It shows poor leadership to meet leaders of another country?
Aug 16th 2019
160
                          RE: It shows poor leadership to meet leaders of another country?
Aug 16th 2019
169
                          RE: It shows poor leadership to meet leaders of another country?
Aug 16th 2019
176
                          was Tulsi president?
Aug 16th 2019
166
                          No - and neither was Obama when he said it
Aug 16th 2019
175
                               My point was the false equivalency comparing what Obama
Aug 16th 2019
182
                                    it's really not as hard as you're making it out to be.
Aug 16th 2019
184
                                         Not my conversation but this is a good point
Aug 16th 2019
207
                          Yes it does when the leaders of her party didn't know she met Assad
Aug 16th 2019
168
                               so you're mad that she didn't inform Nancy? lol
Aug 16th 2019
177
                                    More strawman ?
Aug 16th 2019
181
                                         RE: More strawman ?
Aug 16th 2019
183
                                         Bias
Aug 16th 2019
214
                                              RE: Bias
Aug 16th 2019
219
                                                   RE: Bias
Aug 16th 2019
220
                                                        RE: Bias
Aug 16th 2019
229
                                         Yikes.
Aug 16th 2019
185
                                              Smh more spinning
Aug 16th 2019
196
                                                   Yea we can end this right here.
Aug 16th 2019
198
                                                        It never started
Aug 16th 2019
201
                                                             Please, cite some more PNAC authorities for us.
Aug 16th 2019
216
                                                                  It didn't end ? Guardian is PNAC and Rumsfeld never met Saddam
Aug 16th 2019
222
                                                                       yea that's deep.
Aug 16th 2019
225
                                                                            Substance
Aug 16th 2019
226
      Hard Pass
Aug 16th 2019
156
elizabeth warren economic expertise in 2 acts:
Aug 14th 2019
129
hickenlooper out.
Aug 14th 2019
149
Good. The bottom half should follow suit.
Aug 15th 2019
152
whos next?
Aug 16th 2019
163
Cardi B Bernie full discussion out
Aug 15th 2019
154
green, ay day all day. and not even close.
Aug 15th 2019
155
biden team thinking about scaling back public appearances
Aug 16th 2019
159
yup
Aug 16th 2019
164
Yea I mean this is wild, he's clearly slipping, but ...
Aug 16th 2019
165
fake a health issue
Aug 16th 2019
167
      seriously just hire somebody to shoot yourself.
Aug 16th 2019
192
           YIIIIKES lol
Aug 16th 2019
208
pure entitlement imo.
Aug 16th 2019
186
      RE: pure entitlement imo.
Aug 16th 2019
193
obama or biden folks now leaking obama warned biden not to run
Aug 16th 2019
187
      not surprised if true...
Aug 16th 2019
191
           i seen somebody say joe biden got worse takes than joe budden.
Aug 16th 2019
195
                LOL.
Aug 16th 2019
218
everyday on social media is 2016
Aug 16th 2019
162
beto reboots presidential campaign (for the 3rd time).
Aug 16th 2019
190
if he doesnt have a big rebound with the third debate he has to go
Aug 16th 2019
197
betos fundraising dropped off a cliff in the 2nd qtr too.
Aug 16th 2019
200
yeah wasnt sure how to refer to blind biden supporters
Aug 16th 2019
203
      warren clearly has the *heart* of dem voters.
Aug 16th 2019
209
           Exactly right.
Aug 16th 2019
212
Warren.
Aug 16th 2019
211
the Mark Sanchez of politics
Aug 16th 2019
199
What's his butt fumble equivalent tho
Aug 16th 2019
213
he almost out here looking like Mike McMahon in the light, LOL
Aug 19th 2019
241
he looks good on headlines and says and tweets the right things
Aug 19th 2019
238
biden and warren in statistical tie in new national poll.
Aug 16th 2019
204
thats kind of wild
Aug 16th 2019
205
shes gonna have to make herself visible/audible to more black people.
Aug 16th 2019
210
      ^^^ this. What has sold me on her ability to win
Aug 16th 2019
223
Sanders is in that statistical tie too. Why'd they leave that out?
Aug 16th 2019
221
5% difference with a 2.6% margin of error?
Aug 16th 2019
224
I'm just pointing out the misleading headline
Aug 16th 2019
227
      They shouldn't use the words "statistical tie."
Aug 16th 2019
228
statistical tie = lead less than the margin of error.
Aug 17th 2019
231
Nah
Aug 17th 2019
232
      fam im telling you exactly what they mean when they say statistical tie.
Aug 17th 2019
233
           Nah
Aug 17th 2019
234
                cant read it because of the paywall but i talked to a pollster
Aug 20th 2019
247
                     Yeah all that is what me and strav were talking about above
Aug 20th 2019
248
The Dem Establishment still can't admit what's happening on the ground.
Aug 18th 2019
236
how the hell is Biden doing this
Aug 19th 2019
240
New CNN poll: Biden doubling his nearest competitors.
Aug 20th 2019
250
      How the fuck does this happen ?!
Aug 20th 2019
251
           I can think of a few things...
Aug 20th 2019
254
                Good points.
Aug 20th 2019
268
warren chipping away at bidens 'electability' lead. 14 pt surge.
Aug 17th 2019
230
Tulsi Gabbard
Aug 18th 2019
235
Bernie releases comprehensive plan to cut prison population in half
Aug 19th 2019
237
I am voting for Warren. She is CLEARLY the best choice
Aug 19th 2019
242
Biden's wife comes through with the weakest spousal endorsement
Aug 20th 2019
243
She cheating on Joe
Aug 20th 2019
244
Hahaha yea this shit was hilarious.
Aug 20th 2019
245
very inspiring message.
Aug 20th 2019
246
Its absurd
Aug 20th 2019
253
      Of course Joe's racist.
Aug 20th 2019
256
      believe it or not
Aug 20th 2019
264
      fam this part here:
Aug 20th 2019
259
      It's not just the demographics - it's also the ideas/philosophy
Aug 20th 2019
260
           its weird. the 2nd top choice for both sanders and biden voters
Aug 20th 2019
263
                Some pretty fascinating data there.
Aug 20th 2019
266
      I don't think you're thinking all this through.
Aug 20th 2019
261
           Its possible to think things through and disagree with you
Aug 20th 2019
262
                You really take it personal when called out for saying something dumb.
Aug 20th 2019
267
                     huh? last one man
Aug 20th 2019
269
                          I'm sorry that I'm an asshole. And even more sorry that you're wrong.
Aug 20th 2019
271
I'm crying
Aug 20th 2019
252
Julian Castro has qualified for the 3rd debate.
Aug 20th 2019
249
glad to see him make it
Aug 20th 2019
255
well-deserved. I've been impressed with him at every turn.
Aug 20th 2019
257
      same
Aug 20th 2019
265
susan sarandon is back. taking shots at elizabeth warren.
Aug 20th 2019
258
ON NO NOT SUSAN SARANDON!!!!
Aug 22nd 2019
285
      lol right? Susan and Jill are the reason we have Trump OMG'Z!
Aug 22nd 2019
287
           honest questions. do you think surrogates like sarandon do any damage
Aug 22nd 2019
299
                only if that person is a weak minded idiot
Aug 22nd 2019
303
honestly who watches dude and thinks he is ready for a fight in 2020?
Aug 20th 2019
270
Come on, we should be rolling our eyes at this one.
Aug 20th 2019
272
damn bro i should know better than to promote an rnc twitter account
Aug 20th 2019
275
      I'm kinda with you there.
Aug 20th 2019
276
           look man i tried to deny it but biden flat out sucks.
Aug 22nd 2019
297
So true.
Aug 20th 2019
273
smh who does this sound like?
Aug 20th 2019
274
Folks haven't figured out if we need a Dem Trump or an Anti-Trump.
Aug 21st 2019
277
damn
Aug 21st 2019
279
well said
Aug 21st 2019
278
The Biden/establishment Dems are wrong, he is not the only way to win
Aug 21st 2019
280
jay inslee out.
Aug 21st 2019
281
I took a liking to this dude after the last debates.
Aug 21st 2019
282
The Green New Deal
Aug 22nd 2019
283
It'd be nice if it attempted to do something about climate.
Aug 22nd 2019
284
could you expand on this?
Aug 22nd 2019
286
      RE: could you expand on this?
Aug 22nd 2019
288
           i've been reading stravinskian's posts for years. who the fuck are you?
Aug 22nd 2019
290
           I think it's Vex.
Aug 22nd 2019
294
           lol.... i don't think its Vex. he's not *that* foolish
Aug 22nd 2019
302
           Lol - I like how you're pressed on this "Reaction" username
Aug 24th 2019
306
           LOL
Aug 22nd 2019
295
           seriously.
Aug 22nd 2019
296
           scientist vs "i read a thing"
Aug 22nd 2019
298
           lol yeah I disagree with him on some things
Aug 22nd 2019
300
           stands in this fucking line
Aug 22nd 2019
301
                Correct. I'm convinced that dude is a bot.
Aug 22nd 2019
304
           not a troll, just a basic liberal who can't think beyond
Aug 27th 2019
320
The agricultural changes the plans talks about seem reasonable.
Aug 22nd 2019
289
      the problem isn't small farms
Aug 22nd 2019
291
           RE: the problem isn't small farms
Aug 22nd 2019
292
                this doesnt address climate change- this redresses income inequity
Aug 22nd 2019
293
Seth Moulton drops out
Aug 23rd 2019
305
raise your hand if you forgot that kirsten gillibrand was running.
Aug 25th 2019
307
that was my exact reaction lol
Aug 26th 2019
308
shes gone
Aug 28th 2019
339
Bernie and Warren tied for 1st, Biden 3rd
Aug 26th 2019
309
The obvious signs of Biden's ageing are too much for people to
Aug 26th 2019
310
youre really being a weirdo now.
Aug 26th 2019
312
      check your response #202
Aug 27th 2019
317
      to be fair you were riding for biden, then kamala, then beto
Aug 27th 2019
322
           fwiw beto was the only one i personally rode for.
Aug 28th 2019
325
peep this snl skit about the democratic primary debates in 1991.
Aug 26th 2019
311
morning consult: biden 33% | sanders 20% | warren 15%
Aug 27th 2019
313
It was depressing to see so much of the media join the wishful thinkers....
Aug 27th 2019
314
Old people like old people bruh
Aug 27th 2019
315
Exactly. Tbh I think Boomer psychology is highly underaccounted for
Aug 27th 2019
318
and most polls done by TV networks of viewers skew old as fuck
Aug 27th 2019
321
      What’s common sense tho? Old people vote
Aug 27th 2019
323
           i have no idea why people still dont get this.
Aug 28th 2019
327
                I wish college kids did vote in large numbers.
Aug 28th 2019
335
welp
Aug 27th 2019
319
2 more polls that show biden still up fairly comfortably.
Aug 28th 2019
326
      usa today poll has big lead for biden too.
Aug 28th 2019
328
           this mornings quinnipiac poll is more of the same.
Aug 28th 2019
329
Saw this coming the Bernie Bros went all in off one poll
Aug 27th 2019
316
only 22% of dems support medicare for all replacing private insurance.
Aug 28th 2019
324
Counterpoint!
Aug 28th 2019
330
      thats without the pollster really informing respondents
Aug 28th 2019
331
      Incorrect
Aug 28th 2019
333
           did you read anything i actually wrote?
Aug 28th 2019
334
      *clears throat* Join DSA
Aug 28th 2019
332
Why is this post all about analyzing poll results?
Aug 28th 2019
336
i take it you mean why most replies are focused on that
Aug 28th 2019
337
I guess this is it....
Aug 28th 2019
338
      To me, it alienates us from politics
Aug 29th 2019
341
Fuck a poll
Aug 29th 2019
345
because it allows simple people to play fantasy football with numbers
Sep 13th 2019
379
Killer Mike sits down with Bernie for another talk
Aug 29th 2019
340
Have we talked about Tom Seyer
Aug 29th 2019
342
He definitely gives a fuck... about his wealth
Aug 29th 2019
343
i have no idea what he stands for
Aug 29th 2019
344
RE: i have no idea what he stands for
Aug 29th 2019
346
Until recently he was a one-issue guy for impeachment.
Aug 29th 2019
348
I am SO fucking glad he didn't make the September debate.
Aug 29th 2019
347
Another billionaire with a bloated ego.
Sep 03rd 2019
363
When Joe says "God's truth, my word as a Biden!"...
Aug 30th 2019
349
September debate lineup
Aug 30th 2019
350
kinda wild to see how much bernie is being written out of the discussion
Sep 02nd 2019
351
Very wild
Sep 02nd 2019
352
damn lol.
Sep 02nd 2019
355
not really - it's predictable and par for the course since 2016.
Sep 02nd 2019
356
bernie got treated with kid gloves by the media
Sep 03rd 2019
359
      LOL. Did you copy & paste this from Wasserman-Schultz?
Sep 03rd 2019
362
btw warren getting positive media coverage is an absolute asset.
Sep 02nd 2019
357
Read a good tweet a few weeks ago about her wonkiness
Sep 02nd 2019
358
Her favorable coverage is well deserved.
Sep 03rd 2019
364
this morning joe clip about the biden war story gaffe was embarassing.
Sep 03rd 2019
360
here is how the candidates are doing right now by the numbers.
Sep 02nd 2019
353
NO MEN.
Sep 02nd 2019
354
Worked out well for us last time.
Sep 13th 2019
367
      I think Warren might be the strongest candidate, at this point.
Sep 13th 2019
368
      RE: I think Warren might be the strongest candidate...in the primary
Sep 13th 2019
369
      meh I used to think this but no
Sep 13th 2019
371
           I'm not implying a tit for tat, yo momma exchange of insults
Sep 13th 2019
372
                There is no basis for saying she ever took a minority slot AND
Sep 13th 2019
373
                She won't be debating me...I didn't say tears...try again.
Sep 13th 2019
376
                RE: There is no basis for saying she ever took a minority slot AND
Sep 13th 2019
381
                so...what are you implying? What/who are you actually for?
Sep 13th 2019
380
                Biden will be so out of it he won't technically be punch drunk
Sep 13th 2019
382
      RE: I think Warren might be the strongest candidate, at this point.
Sep 13th 2019
374
      I live in the present. How about you?
Sep 16th 2019
417
i dont understand why dems have such a hard time playing team ball
Sep 03rd 2019
361
Exactly. Dems are out here like Kobe's final season fam. ballhoggery.
Sep 03rd 2019
365
Warren is going to be the nominee. I just don't see the DNC letting
Sep 13th 2019
366
I imagine even Biden fans have to be concerned
Sep 13th 2019
370
YOOOOOOOOOO lol it's true.
Sep 13th 2019
375
I had to turn it off shortly after the first Castro moment
Sep 13th 2019
377
i think the only thing preventing her from polling significantly higher
Sep 13th 2019
384
this was the first debate I actually watched
Sep 13th 2019
378
RE: this was the first debate I actually watched
Sep 13th 2019
383
RE: this was the first debate I actually watched
Sep 14th 2019
389
Warren needs to find a way to do a Trump trial run.
Sep 13th 2019
385
I agree re: Warren vs. Individual 1
Sep 14th 2019
387
lol i didn't even notice this
Sep 14th 2019
392
Yeah the clips from the first debate when people were praising Kamala
Sep 14th 2019
390
Damn. You nailed my feelings exactly.
Sep 14th 2019
386
      Yeah, its not like she's lying
Sep 14th 2019
391
      kamala wasnt quite ready for this moment.
Sep 15th 2019
394
           RE: kamala wasnt quite ready for this moment.
Sep 15th 2019
396
i'm voting for elizabeth warren
Sep 14th 2019
388
fam the post debate biden pampering has been disgusting.
Sep 15th 2019
393
All of this
Sep 15th 2019
400
      this is why a lot of people dont fuck with them:
Sep 16th 2019
402
joe biden vs corn pop.
Sep 15th 2019
395
even a old, crazy clock is right twice a day
Sep 15th 2019
397
      yeah the story was told by a former de naacp head too.
Sep 15th 2019
398
      fam i dont even know
Sep 15th 2019
399
      Also, IIRC, the comments were in 2017.
Sep 16th 2019
406
           yeah youre right. that speech was from 2017.
Sep 16th 2019
413
      Corn pop is Biden's Black cred
Sep 16th 2019
409
           corn pop, t bone, cousin pookie.
Sep 16th 2019
414
working families party endorses elizabeth warren
Sep 16th 2019
401
i guess at this stage theyre hoping biden drops out
Sep 16th 2019
403
This is the first election in my living memory where grown Black
Sep 16th 2019
404
it seems a very big percentage of black voters are undecided
Sep 16th 2019
405
      Yeah, sooo many people aren't really paying attention. And I don't blame...
Sep 16th 2019
407
      i think a lot of black voters are soft commits too.
Sep 16th 2019
419
Is it still true that Biden is the #2 choice among Bernie voters?
Sep 16th 2019
408
This 538 chart is the best/latest I've seen re: alternate choices (link)
Sep 16th 2019
411
      its interesting that sanders is noticeably lower than warren and biden.
Sep 16th 2019
415
           probably just Boomer some shit. lol
Sep 16th 2019
416
           i edited cuz i was reading it wrong at first lol.
Sep 16th 2019
418
                right, very true
Sep 16th 2019
420
           That's always been Nate Silver's argument for writing off Bernie.
Sep 16th 2019
421
                probably accurate. i dont see many bernie converts.
Sep 17th 2019
426
RE: working families party endorses elizabeth warren
Sep 16th 2019
410
      the working families party is rigged against bernie sanders!
Sep 16th 2019
412
           I guess fairness doesn't matter to some people
Sep 17th 2019
422
                Update
Sep 17th 2019
423
                     'if you believe...'
Sep 17th 2019
427
                          LOL it’s maddening fam
Sep 17th 2019
428
                          RE: LOL it’s maddening fam
Sep 17th 2019
431
                          alt vex is wylin lol.
Sep 17th 2019
432
                          The main reason I'm critical of Warren
Sep 18th 2019
440
                          RE: 'if you believe...'
Sep 17th 2019
429
                               thats the thing about conspiracies.
Sep 17th 2019
433
nbc/wsj poll: biden 31% | warren 25% | sanders 14%
Sep 17th 2019
425
Good stuff
Sep 17th 2019
430
the real question is why is biden not doing a lot worse lol.
Sep 17th 2019
434
      I don't think anyone's watching the debates yet.
Sep 17th 2019
435
      the 2nd night of the 1st debate broke a record with 18 million viewers.
Sep 17th 2019
436
           Yea my friend sent me a long email last week about exactly this.
Sep 17th 2019
438
      I think this is (a) by design, and (b) a smart campaign strategy.
Sep 17th 2019
437
           Yep. I think most of America will welcome a school teacher vibe after
Sep 20th 2019
445
                Yea for sure. And to piggy back off you referencing her being a teacher ...
Sep 20th 2019
446
Warrens rise has been very organic it seems to me.
Sep 18th 2019
442
de blasio polling at 0% in new york city lol
Sep 18th 2019
439
I assumed he had dropped out already lol
Sep 20th 2019
447
Warren. Don't trust Joe at all and Bernie looks hella tired.
Sep 18th 2019
441
Bernie 2020 fastest campaign in history 1 mil donors
Sep 19th 2019
443
apparently de blasio was in the race??
Sep 20th 2019
444
Bernie got this!!! BLACK PPL LOVE HIM (link)
Sep 22nd 2019
448
2 gold standard polls show warren leading in ia and nh.
Sep 24th 2019
449
Elizabeth Warren's Rapid Rise in the Polls Explained
Sep 25th 2019
450
      alt vex you know damn well i aint watching no crackpot youtube videos.
Sep 25th 2019
451
           as opposed to regurgitating every mainstream talking point
Sep 25th 2019
453
                you want to link any Biden videos lil Vex?
Sep 25th 2019
455
                     RE: you want to link any Biden videos lil Vex?
Sep 25th 2019
457
                     *group hug*
Sep 25th 2019
459
                     if he's lil Vex, then you're def lil Reeq
Sep 25th 2019
462
                          lol missed this
Oct 02nd 2019
465
                               lol I didn't know you were a conspiracy theorist
Oct 03rd 2019
470
warren overtakes biden for lead in new national quinnipiac poll
Sep 25th 2019
452
Old Black people about to give Biden the W
Sep 25th 2019
454
you forgot to put "top-tier Tulsi" in your list lol.
Sep 25th 2019
456
      shes staying alive. i give her credit for that.
Sep 25th 2019
458
           She's been bringing it since day1.
Sep 25th 2019
460
           wow @ the little daylight between Biden, Warren & Sanders
Sep 25th 2019
461
rcp average: biden 26.1 | warren 24.4 | sanders 16.7
Oct 02nd 2019
463
ey vex any thoughts on your girl tulsi parroting trump talking points?
Oct 02nd 2019
464
She needs to stop wasting time and announce
Oct 02nd 2019
466
So the Democratic party is a monolith of group-think?
Oct 03rd 2019
469
      is there anything you wont defend her over?
Oct 04th 2019
483
           of course. I disagreed w/ her vote on BDS & her initial stance
Oct 04th 2019
486
Biden should be done yo, fairly or unfairly.
Oct 02nd 2019
467
if bernie supporters blew up cnn...i couldnt even be mad at em.
Oct 02nd 2019
468
RE: if bernie supporters blew up cnn...i couldnt even be mad at em.
Oct 03rd 2019
472
none
Oct 03rd 2019
471
so you would vote R, third party or stay home?
Oct 03rd 2019
473
LOL
Oct 03rd 2019
476
LOL
Oct 03rd 2019
474
I fixed your reply for you
Oct 03rd 2019
475
      I mean fucking honestly.
Oct 03rd 2019
477
      the f*ck outta here, please
Oct 03rd 2019
478
           clown niggas say clown things
Oct 03rd 2019
479
           I was going to do it again but I'm in a good mood so
Oct 04th 2019
482
                Make assumptions
Oct 04th 2019
485
                     It’s crazy how people react when a Black person is against
Oct 10th 2019
490
                          He went all the way in
Oct 10th 2019
498
Bernie Sanders interviewed by Virgil Texas
Oct 04th 2019
480
Kamala is really the president we need.
Oct 04th 2019
481
thats an odd way to spell BERNIE
Oct 10th 2019
497
q3 fundraising numbers:
Oct 04th 2019
484
did orourke do that bad?
Oct 10th 2019
491
still GREEN.
Oct 05th 2019
487
lizzy coltrane officially becomes frontrunner.
Oct 09th 2019
488
biden back at #1 lol
Oct 09th 2019
489
she keeps trending in the right direction
Oct 10th 2019
492
Being a Former Republican is her most vulnerable weak spot.
Oct 10th 2019
494
      Yea I don't think either of these will stick.
Oct 10th 2019
495
tulsi gabbard starting to go full on putin plant.
Oct 10th 2019
493
damn fam you've gone full Kasie Hunt
Oct 11th 2019
504
      cmon vex yall gotta stop with the childish pre-canned insults.
Oct 12th 2019
514
      btw dnc and other dem candidates are treating bernie with KIDS GLOVES!
Oct 12th 2019
516
           lol you always seem to pivot to trashing Sanders, regardless of the topi...
Oct 16th 2019
571
Man.. if this Bernie video doesn't get you in the feels..
Oct 10th 2019
496
It does not.
Oct 10th 2019
499
Not me. Just reinforces how liberals cannibalize themselves
Oct 10th 2019
500
Warren/Gillum ticket ...Man o Man
Oct 10th 2019
501
that would definitely get leaning her way
Oct 11th 2019
506
yeah lizzy got that glow right now.
Oct 10th 2019
502
Ha yea - the Warren moment was clearly scripted but clearly great.
Oct 10th 2019
503
I need for the other Dems to come at her in the next debate.
Oct 11th 2019
505
      Nah. That won’t even come close to how the Trumpsters will spin
Oct 13th 2019
520
If Warren wins the nom, I'll go vote for trump on IG live
Oct 12th 2019
507
How da fuzz you abolish lobbying?
Oct 12th 2019
508
It's literally promised in the Constitution.
Oct 12th 2019
509
      'progressives' are becoming the peta of politics.
Oct 12th 2019
513
threatening to vote for trump. so progressive
Oct 12th 2019
510
I understand your feelings on Warren, believe me
Oct 12th 2019
511
nothing about this reply makes any sense.
Oct 12th 2019
512
*adds you to list of idiots*
Oct 13th 2019
519
Gotdamn, you sound dumb as fuck
Oct 13th 2019
521
shes so wishy washy... still my 2nd choice though...
Oct 15th 2019
524
Wishy washy ?
Oct 15th 2019
527
      (aka not bernie)
Oct 16th 2019
604
Warren has her flaws - but you're making her out to be Clinton
Oct 16th 2019
580
Harry Reid telling on Elizabeth Warren:
Oct 12th 2019
515
alias or troll...
Oct 13th 2019
517
por que no los dos?!
Oct 13th 2019
518
I wasn't ready for his Old Bajan Man From East Flatbush hat.
Oct 15th 2019
525
Hill: Biden camp plans to lose Iowa, New Hampshire, and Nevada
Oct 14th 2019
522
LOL
Oct 14th 2019
523
So they're betting everything on Black (church ladies in SC).
Oct 15th 2019
526
Something's wrong with Biden. He doesn't make any sense
Oct 15th 2019
528
Yes his brain is rotting.
Oct 15th 2019
529
why do we have to suffer through this in 2019?
Oct 15th 2019
531
      RE: why do we have to suffer through this in 2019?
Oct 16th 2019
534
           fair point.
Oct 16th 2019
535
andrew yang should offer everyone $1k if tulsi gabbard drops out.
Oct 15th 2019
530
never trump repubs on my timeline swear tonight was some breakout moment
Oct 15th 2019
532
i watched the cnn coverage/interviews after
Oct 16th 2019
540
      MSNBC did it too
Oct 16th 2019
587
btw is it me or is mayor pete getting a lil annoying?
Oct 15th 2019
533
Yea I was talking about this last nite.
Oct 16th 2019
538
hes made it a point to go hard at beto
Oct 16th 2019
603
      LOL I'm dying - it's true.
Oct 16th 2019
607
last night made me get off him completely
Oct 16th 2019
541
Definitely manufactured.
Oct 16th 2019
542
      i dont think its that
Oct 16th 2019
543
           Yea you're probably right.
Oct 16th 2019
544
                kamala was bizarre
Oct 16th 2019
545
                     Oh yea - that was absolutely weird.
Oct 16th 2019
546
                     She was not bizarre
Oct 16th 2019
560
                          RE: She was not bizarre
Oct 16th 2019
562
                               Bully ?
Oct 16th 2019
579
I do see what you mean re: the fiestiness, but I hate that you used this...
Oct 16th 2019
597
      oh shit you caping for p booty?! lol.
Oct 16th 2019
609
           Lol, I like a select few.. incl Warren, Yang, and yes Buttigieg. Okp has
Oct 18th 2019
610
Turned it off after Biden evaded the Hunter question
Oct 16th 2019
536
SQQQQQUUUUUUUUUAAAAAAAADDD!!!
Oct 16th 2019
537
Well THAT's gonna get him some voters he doesn't already have.
Oct 16th 2019
548
Keep telling yourself that
Oct 16th 2019
550
Women of Color
Oct 16th 2019
555
yeah the reaction to these endorsements is really weird.
Oct 16th 2019
606
HUGE ENDORSEMENT!!!! The future knows wassup.
Oct 16th 2019
565
WTF was with CNN's questions last nite ?
Oct 16th 2019
539
There's no reason to ask questions about climate change.
Oct 16th 2019
547
Couldn't possibly disagree more.
Oct 16th 2019
549
they've already talked about it multiple times
Oct 16th 2019
551
      It's about keeping it at the forefront of the national conversation.
Oct 16th 2019
552
      Turning it into a cartoon doesn't make people take it more seriously.
Oct 16th 2019
554
           Who the fuck said anything about a cartoon.
Oct 16th 2019
557
                Okay let's talk about how this shit plays out.
Oct 16th 2019
561
                     Well cancel the debates then.
Oct 16th 2019
566
                     Deal!
Oct 16th 2019
574
                          Haha yea see I actually think debates are largely useless, too.
Oct 16th 2019
575
                     you could make this argument on just about
Oct 16th 2019
584
                          You can indeed. See post 574.
Oct 16th 2019
590
                               RE: You can indeed. See post 574.
Oct 16th 2019
594
      to be fair, this is true on every issue at this point
Oct 16th 2019
585
NoCal disagrees with you
Oct 16th 2019
553
Yep
Oct 16th 2019
556
RIGHT. I mean what the fuck are we talking about here.
Oct 16th 2019
559
      What we're trying to do is win the fucking general election,
Oct 16th 2019
563
           And so discussing climate for even a minute will lose dems the election....
Oct 16th 2019
567
           Well yeah.
Oct 16th 2019
570
                You don't have to "feed the narrative"
Oct 16th 2019
572
                Discuss what?
Oct 16th 2019
576
                     If you're gonna stand on stage for 2 hours "discussing issues"
Oct 16th 2019
577
                          This isn't the only subject that gets left out.
Oct 16th 2019
581
                You’re conflating election reform with climate change
Oct 16th 2019
595
           Wouldn’t that be a good general election strategy
Oct 16th 2019
569
                It AMAZES me how much faith self-styled progressives have
Oct 16th 2019
578
                     to be fair - we have rarely given the electorate what they want.
Oct 16th 2019
588
                          It's tempting to think we know what the electorate wants.
Oct 16th 2019
593
                          I think there’s a real opportunity to move every conversation so far b...
Oct 16th 2019
601
Thank you.
Oct 16th 2019
558
Ridiculous response.. Climate Change is #1, 2, 3, 4 and 5..
Oct 16th 2019
564
      How about we not talk about either?
Oct 16th 2019
568
           These are some good points
Oct 16th 2019
573
           RE: These are some good points
Oct 16th 2019
582
                RE: These are some good points
Oct 16th 2019
583
                     RE: These are some good points
Oct 16th 2019
592
                          RE: These are some good points
Oct 16th 2019
598
                               It's kind of amazing how quickly we can go...
Oct 16th 2019
599
           And to be clear, I don't know anything about climate either.
Oct 16th 2019
586
                And to be clear, I don't know anything <--fixed it for you
Oct 16th 2019
589
                     OUCH!!!!!!!!!
Oct 16th 2019
591
Well they "did" just host a 7hr Climate Change TH Marathon on Sept 4
Oct 16th 2019
596
      LOL - like 70 posts later and this is the only correct answer.
Oct 16th 2019
600
           lol! np
Oct 16th 2019
605
biden only has $9 mil left in the bank.
Oct 16th 2019
602
help me see this biden buttigieg ideological tie. other than anti-m4a
Oct 16th 2019
608
      Old Boy has pivoted.
Oct 18th 2019
611
           Hm, ok. You know, I viewed that more as a bad analogy than a pivot lol
Oct 18th 2019
613
LMAO. Hillary: Putin is grooming Tulsi to run as a third-party candidat...
Oct 18th 2019
612
Goading Clinton to join the race...she's gotta be a Russian asset
Oct 18th 2019
615
The Russian media and David Duke sure do like her.
Oct 19th 2019
616
LOL citing "New Knowledge" propaganda again.
Oct 19th 2019
623
      Guess what Tulsi said when asked if she disavows Russian media?
Oct 20th 2019
629
           This was my first thought as well.
Oct 20th 2019
632
           Lol since when is “disavowing media” a thing?
Oct 20th 2019
633
           she just skipped out on a vote rebuking trump for syria too.
Oct 20th 2019
636
           Saw this. Wild.
Oct 20th 2019
637
           damn...yo Vex you didn't respond to this. What would it take
Oct 20th 2019
638
           seriously i wanna hear a viable explanation for this:
Oct 21st 2019
640
           Again, I've critiqued Tulsi here many times
Oct 21st 2019
648
                These idiots are giving her her moment
Oct 21st 2019
650
                Right. For someone who is supposed to be a master politician
Oct 21st 2019
669
                RE: Again, I've critiqued Tulsi here many times
Oct 21st 2019
657
                     RE: Again, I've critiqued Tulsi here many times
Oct 21st 2019
666
           then of course, those Republicans must be right
Oct 21st 2019
647
           Look, any foreign interference in our elections is not a good thing
Oct 21st 2019
649
Instead of talking about election reform....
Oct 19th 2019
617
there it is
Oct 19th 2019
618
      sounding like a straight up incel.
Oct 19th 2019
620
           if it hates like a duck
Oct 19th 2019
621
everything clinton said in 2016 turned out to be true.
Oct 19th 2019
619
LMAO damn fam you're really out here caping for Hillary.
Oct 19th 2019
622
      tulsi or bust!
Oct 19th 2019
624
           Let's petition the government to open the investigation!
Oct 19th 2019
625
                heres some info to help you educate yourself:
Oct 20th 2019
626
                     LOCK HER UP!!! LOCK HER UP!!!
Oct 20th 2019
627
                     Tulsi makes it worse when she gives them receipts
Oct 20th 2019
628
                     Really rich to see the junk conspiracy theory peddling
Oct 20th 2019
631
                          dont forget tucker carlson. ;)
Oct 20th 2019
634
                               lol - she also went on cbs news that same evening
Oct 21st 2019
646
                     Holy shit - you’re actually serious
Oct 20th 2019
630
                          neoliberal establishment msnbc clinton pelosi 3rdway neera tanden shill!
Oct 20th 2019
635
                               ^loud and aloof
Oct 21st 2019
645
It's all too clear to me what Hillary Clinton is up to.
Oct 21st 2019
651
      It's amazing how many pundits and "political experts" omit this context
Oct 21st 2019
667
           Guys come the fuck on.
Oct 21st 2019
668
                RE: Guys come the fuck on.
Oct 21st 2019
670
CRINE
Oct 18th 2019
614
Warren or Sanders. Anyone else is a WAY distant third.
Oct 21st 2019
639
exactly.
Oct 21st 2019
644
2 polls: warren surpasses sanders among black voters
Oct 21st 2019
641
suffolk/usa today poll: buttigieg jumps to 3rd place in iowa
Oct 21st 2019
642
whoa
Oct 21st 2019
653
RE: suffolk/usa today poll: buttigieg jumps to 3rd place in iowa
Oct 21st 2019
655
no surprises there. Pete was always gonna kill in Iowa.
Oct 21st 2019
661
60% dont want private health insurance replaced (medicare for all).
Oct 21st 2019
643
The ‘Public Option’ on Health Care Is a Poison Pill
Oct 21st 2019
652
Oh God. Now Medicare Part C/Advantage is up for crucifixion, lol.
Oct 21st 2019
658
whoever wrote that article doesnt know what a poison pill is.
Oct 22nd 2019
680
I guess we'll have to convince more people
Oct 21st 2019
654
      Rob Delaney's doing God's work
Oct 21st 2019
656
           Is there disagreement with the moral argument though??
Oct 21st 2019
660
                The US also has way more wealth, though.
Oct 21st 2019
663
                It does, you're absolutely right. But is a wealth tax being proposed to
Oct 21st 2019
664
                     fair points. In addition to the questions on how to pay for it
Oct 21st 2019
671
                     we need details
Oct 21st 2019
672
                     people also arent factoring in how unhealthy america is
Oct 24th 2019
716
                "wants" is doing a lot of heavy lifting for you
Oct 21st 2019
674
Pete The Booty Judge getting campaign & hiring advice from Zuckerberg
Oct 21st 2019
659
yes. them hiring a couple highly recommended data scientists
Oct 21st 2019
662
Eewww
Oct 21st 2019
673
Nah that's a terrible idea
Oct 22nd 2019
684
evacuate now
Oct 21st 2019
665
83% of retirees who donated gave to Trump
Oct 21st 2019
675
A good friend of mine from college *hates* the Boomer generation.
Oct 21st 2019
676
      the reaganites.
Oct 22nd 2019
681
           The hippie generation turned into the yuppie generation.
Oct 22nd 2019
682
           some possible silver linings:
Oct 22nd 2019
686
                This.
Oct 23rd 2019
689
           Exactly. Siphoning all our resources and blaming us for buying coffee.
Oct 23rd 2019
688
so tulsi is just gonna run against hillary the rest of the primary?
Oct 22nd 2019
677
"Step down from your throne" lol what fucking throne ?
Oct 22nd 2019
678
she is basically just cutting viral content for rt/sputnik now.
Oct 22nd 2019
679
she's coming across as an idiot and russian asset.
Oct 22nd 2019
685
This more than anything.
Oct 23rd 2019
690
LOL unreal
Oct 23rd 2019
693
biden is the gift that keeps on giving (to republicans).
Oct 22nd 2019
683
the media and the undying 'hillary might stlll run' scoop.
Oct 22nd 2019
687
Read this yesterday. It's horrifying.
Oct 23rd 2019
691
Horrifying...and kind of hilarious
Oct 23rd 2019
692
      m4a is an anchor around dems necks now.
Oct 23rd 2019
694
           RE: m4a is an anchor around dems necks now.
Oct 23rd 2019
696
           RE: m4a is an anchor around dems necks now.
Oct 23rd 2019
697
                literally no one is arguing against
Oct 23rd 2019
698
                     That's the question.
Oct 23rd 2019
700
                     and this isnt even a hypothetical:
Oct 23rd 2019
701
                     Scream it from the rooftops.
Oct 24th 2019
705
                     Right. I'm at a loss
Oct 24th 2019
710
                     RE: literally no one is arguing against
Oct 24th 2019
704
                          but you didn't address any questions
Oct 24th 2019
709
                               RE: but you didn't address any questions
Oct 24th 2019
720
                                    Slow down a moment there
Oct 24th 2019
722
                                    I found it
Oct 24th 2019
723
           i have to disagree
Oct 24th 2019
711
Not crazy to report that. She’s been making the rounds
Oct 23rd 2019
695
Former Natl' Field Director for the DNC steps up to ease tensions
Oct 23rd 2019
699
How's Yang doing? Actually curious
Oct 24th 2019
702
I think less of him every time he opens his mouth.
Oct 24th 2019
703
LOLOL
Oct 24th 2019
706
A lot of the automation arguments that underpin his whole campaign...
Oct 24th 2019
708
      Not to mention his UBI plan is fairly regressive, no?
Oct 24th 2019
713
           Haven't even looked at it that closely, but yeah,
Oct 24th 2019
717
                RE: Haven't even looked at it that closely, but yeah,
Oct 24th 2019
721
                     Guys, no lol... The VAT works out to essentially being a corporate tax
Oct 24th 2019
724
                          UBI vs current government assistance is meh
Oct 24th 2019
725
                          I hear you. I think people are underestimating the power + flexibility
Oct 24th 2019
728
                               i can see many single mothers having to choose between
Oct 24th 2019
730
                               Right. And ya this I'm not sure of:
Oct 24th 2019
732
                                    i might be remembering wrong
Oct 24th 2019
735
                               I'm sorry but nah
Oct 24th 2019
731
                                    Lol! I get your concerns. I think we just disagree. If I place myself
Oct 24th 2019
736
                          I don't know man
Oct 24th 2019
729
LOL same. The Joe Rogan candidate
Oct 24th 2019
712
his comments on M4A = thumbs down.
Oct 24th 2019
707
I don't have any idea of what there is to like about this guy.
Oct 24th 2019
714
dude is the asian character from every company party movie.
Oct 24th 2019
715
Lmao
Oct 24th 2019
726
dog, I'm CRINE
Oct 24th 2019
739
Lol. As much as I like his UBI proposal, I do agree that other than
Oct 24th 2019
727
btw ubi is currently being tested by the black mayor of stockton ca
Oct 24th 2019
734
      Someone referenced this pilot in one of the debates, I think
Oct 24th 2019
737
      Yea it has to be political calculation, I'd think.
Oct 24th 2019
741
      def a political calculation. an obvious one too.
Oct 24th 2019
745
      I remember seeing something about this last year.
Oct 24th 2019
740
Person best suited to do the job is Harris.
Oct 24th 2019
718
Person best suited to do the job is Harris.
Oct 24th 2019
719
progressive* lion tulsi gabbard courts wall street donors
Oct 24th 2019
733
lol it's sad that you post such woeful misinformation.
Oct 24th 2019
738
Good point - Trump said he had no business in Russia, too !
Oct 24th 2019
742
dont you say nothing bad about miss tulsi! (c) benita buttrell
Oct 24th 2019
744
so when she doesn’t run third party - what’s next?
Oct 25th 2019
751
      You're desperate man relax.
Oct 25th 2019
753
           Lmao. I mean, if that’s his fav I don’t blame him for defending her
Oct 25th 2019
754
                I'm wondering what would make him *stop* defending her, tho.
Oct 25th 2019
756
                     I've asked him
Oct 25th 2019
757
tulsi gabbard appears on sean hannity to criticize impeachment inquiry
Oct 24th 2019
743
      Holy shit.
Oct 24th 2019
746
      omg she appeared on Fox again? Hillary is 100% right !!
Oct 24th 2019
747
           you gonna thelma and louise with her all the way off the cliff huh?
Oct 24th 2019
748
           cmon Vex that isn't the point and you know it. You ok?
Oct 25th 2019
758
                I wish it didn't need to be said but apparently it does.
Oct 25th 2019
761
tulsi gabbard abandons re-election for her house seat.
Oct 24th 2019
749
Damn you’re really out here off that Bakari Sellout
Oct 25th 2019
750
Shit is suspect bruh
Oct 25th 2019
752
      youre right. her base seems to be republicans (and vex lol).
Oct 25th 2019
755
her challenger: "i think the ppl of hawaii want less workout videos" lol
Oct 25th 2019
760
Biden now begging for a SuperPAC to come save him...
Oct 25th 2019
759
It's possible to talk and think about multiple candidates at once.
Oct 25th 2019
762
      Front runner now considering bribes & dirty money...
Oct 25th 2019
763
           Get @ me when you see me or anyone here defending Biden lol.
Oct 25th 2019
764
update: maybe tulsi *should* run 3rd party lol
Oct 29th 2019
767
      Same polling results came out in N.H. have her 5th at 5%
Oct 29th 2019
768
      18
Oct 29th 2019
769
      only 9 have qualified for the November debates
Oct 31st 2019
776
      you ever notice how nobody accuses you of being paid to stan for tulsi
Oct 29th 2019
771
      I want to meet the person who was gonna vote for Trump...
Oct 29th 2019
770
           oh there are def young conservatives and indies who would vote for her.
Oct 29th 2019
772
                Yes - but that's not the pro-trump crowd.
Oct 31st 2019
785
                     Tulsi wasn't lambasted *just* because she went on Tucker.
Oct 31st 2019
786
                          RE: Tulsi wasn't lambasted *just* because she went on Tucker.
Oct 31st 2019
787
                               Oh boy.
Oct 31st 2019
789
                               its good she voted for impeachment. Can you admit that parroting
Oct 31st 2019
790
                                    Can you admit that you were poorly informed
Oct 31st 2019
791
                                         ^ *dodges the point again*
Nov 01st 2019
793
                                              what's the point?
Nov 01st 2019
794
                                                   Tulsi expanding her reach by going on Hannity* - meh.
Nov 01st 2019
795
                                                        Tulsi has appeared on essentially every single network
Nov 01st 2019
798
                                                             Dude she's lying.
Nov 01st 2019
799
                                                                  to be honest she comes off as more gullibe than anything
Nov 01st 2019
800
                                                                       How could she not know about these people !
Nov 01st 2019
801
                                                                       when your own squad is constantly saying "you're one of them"
Nov 01st 2019
802
                                                                            well let's be clear - her own "squad" isn't saying that.
Nov 01st 2019
803
                                                                            i think it's more than just clinton proxies
Nov 01st 2019
810
                                                                            Further proving her "own squad" is probably on to something lol.
Nov 01st 2019
804
                                                                                 Oh so you're in the "Hillary might be right about her!" camp
Nov 01st 2019
805
                                                                                 ^ dumbest "smart" guy on OKP
Nov 01st 2019
806
                                                                                 LOL
Nov 01st 2019
808
                                                                                 a large group saying the same thing doesn't make them right
Nov 01st 2019
811
                                                                                      I said "may be on to something" not "they are right," and also ...
Nov 01st 2019
812
                                                                                      This is the larger point that's important here:
Nov 01st 2019
813
                                                                       Vex thinks people imagine Tulsi getting secret communique's,
Nov 01st 2019
809
                                                                            and it's absurd to say that this is what's happening:
Nov 01st 2019
814
Remember when Republicans thought trillion-dollar deficits...
Oct 25th 2019
765
Bob iger is coming to save us all from the doom and gloom
Oct 26th 2019
766
Biden -9 in N.H. in CNN/UNH poll
Oct 31st 2019
773
Meant to post this the other day.
Oct 31st 2019
774
That's pretty sad. Can't see how he lasts another 10 months.
Oct 31st 2019
775
Agree. Should've listened to Obama.
Oct 31st 2019
777
read this article on his campaign in iowa.
Oct 31st 2019
780
      I also get the feeling that he's almost resigned at this point.
Oct 31st 2019
782
They can’t find glue for his dentures?
Oct 31st 2019
778
i legit might never say another bad word about biden again.
Oct 31st 2019
779
Ahahaha, WTF, that's approaching street bum status!
Oct 31st 2019
784
the campaign donation version of "please clap"....
Oct 31st 2019
788
clinton boosted tulsis campaign in a way she couldnt do herself.
Oct 31st 2019
781
      That's a fact.
Oct 31st 2019
783
There’s no need to ask questions about climate change (c) straviskian
Oct 31st 2019
792
Joe Manchin: "I wouldn't vote for Bernie Sanders over Trump"
Nov 01st 2019
796
^^^ Nah, I'm not on that team
Nov 01st 2019
797
This might excite some MN OKP's
Nov 01st 2019
807
Pour a little out for Beto 2020
Nov 01st 2019
815
he really ran a bad campaign
Nov 01st 2019
817
      He surprised me with his courageous stances/takes
Nov 02nd 2019
820
           he definitely had a lot more to say than people give him credit for
Nov 04th 2019
821
Beto out. Good riddance.
Nov 01st 2019
816
according to wiki, squat
Nov 01st 2019
818
i really liked his passion and commitment to gun violence policies
Nov 01st 2019
819

mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
12501 posts
Thu Aug-08-19 03:45 PM

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1. "im off beto and on to warren"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

both in who i want to get the nomination and would vote for today.

i really like what warren has been doing and i dont think her past issues will matter.

  

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walihorse
Member since Aug 03rd 2006
15861 posts
Thu Aug-08-19 03:55 PM

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2. "I think the ticket should be Warren/Buttigieg or Warren/Harris"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I'm all in on Warren though.

If a fat guy falls in the woods and there is no one around to see it, do the trees laugh?

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
9535 posts
Thu Aug-08-19 04:17 PM

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3. "warren. most dems polled say warren"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

when asked who they would vote for based on their own issues/values.

when people are asked who can beat trump (electability)...biden comes out on top.

im starting to think that 'electability' is a trap for dems.

when dems vote based on some mythical metric of who they think *other* people will vote for...they lose (kerry, mondale, etc). when dems just say fuck it and go for who they are most inspired by and passionate about...they knock it out of the park (obama, clinton, etc).

------

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12229 posts
Thu Aug-08-19 06:51 PM

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9. "I don't see this:"
In response to Reply # 3


          

>im starting to think that 'electability' is a trap for dems.
>
>when dems vote based on some mythical metric of who they think
>*other* people will vote for...they lose (kerry, mondale,
>etc). when dems just say fuck it and go for who they are most
>inspired by and passionate about...they knock it out of the
>park (obama, clinton, etc).

The whole thing's clouded by the vagaries of small-number statistics, but I think there are counterexamples.

Maybe it was a different time, but George McGovern wasn't running on electability. He ran on big ideas and got a lot of people really passionate, and he fell like a rock.

Clinton was the darling of the Democratic Leadership Council. He was the one who got people talking about "New Democrats."

Obama, yeah he was an exciting candidate, but he also came to everyone's attention through a speech about there not being a "red America" and a "blue America." Then he made a point of running to the right of Hillary Clinton on nearly every issue in 2008.

Bill Clinton and Barack Obama were exciting AND electable.

The way I see it, both of these are necessary but not sufficient conditions. In general, we need both. And sadly I don't think there's anyone right now that has both.


The only winning Dem I can think of who only had only one of these was Jimmy Carter, who didn't run an exciting campaign at all. But as a southern governor he didn't scare anybody and was able to coast on the unpopularity of Gerry Ford.

That's why my money, and probably my vote, is still on Biden, even though he finds a new way to infuriate me just about every day.

  

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Mynoriti
Charter member
35269 posts
Fri Aug-09-19 11:54 AM

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23. "how far should we really be going back?"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

in 72/76 we still at least had a consensus on what "news" was

excitement/passion whatever you want to call it seems to have only grown as a factor, and even on the republican end the safe candidates like Romney lost. Shit, McCain's only excitement came through Palin and her fuck what we're "supposed" to do dumpsterfire approach that Trump seized on and ran with




--------
http://ambitiondeficitdisorder.tumblr.com/

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
3809 posts
Fri Aug-09-19 12:46 PM

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33. "Yeah the pro-Biden argument is pretty selective"
In response to Reply # 23
Fri Aug-09-19 12:51 PM by Stadiq

          



For instance, when’s the last time a 30 year Washington
vet ran for pres and won? Hell, on either side?

And the last few safe/more moderate choices were folks like
Hillary, McCain, Kerry, etc.


How is he the most “electable” when there’s
a lot more examples of similar candidates losing?


He’d be our Bob Dole or Romney.

  

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Mynoriti
Charter member
35269 posts
Fri Aug-09-19 12:52 PM

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34. "i see both sides of it"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

because dems can generate all this excitement and passion, win by millions of votes and still lose the states they need by going balls out left.

--------
http://ambitiondeficitdisorder.tumblr.com/

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
3809 posts
Fri Aug-09-19 02:17 PM

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37. "Fair but Warren seems to have a plan for that lol"
In response to Reply # 34


          


Her farmer/ag stuff seems legit to me.

I’d also argue turnout in liberal areas in those states
would/could be better.

But this is another issue I have with the “Biden is
our only hope” folks- Beto is kicking trumps ass
in Texas polls, no? How many electoral votes
is that?

My point is that the “Biden or bust” folks aren’t
being as pragmatic as they say- they just like
Biden and won’t admit it or they haven’t thought
about every angle.

“Biden’s the most electable!” * looks at modern
history, sees that every similar candidate lost

“Biden is beating Trump in key states!” Looks at
polls, sees everyone from Bernie to Warren to
Beto beating him in key states

Etc.

I’m not saying there isn’t an argument for Joe. But
this idea that he’s the only hope is terrible.

I do think if it ends up being Biden, he needs to
lock up Warren as VP and adopt some of her
plans. I used to think he needed to lock down
Abrams, but I think Warren would deliver more
voters he wouldn’t get excited otherwise.

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
9535 posts
Fri Aug-09-19 02:42 PM

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38. "i thought biden was the most electable til he actually started running. "
In response to Reply # 37


  

          

its weird how hes considered super-electable and hillary wasnt.

hes even more exposed on the crime bill (actually wrote it), hes a horrible campaigner (hill didnt stick her foot in her mouth every week), he doesnt poll as well as hillary did with black OR college educated white voters (who were responsible for dem midterms gains). and while biden gaslights his own base into believing republicans are warm and fuzzy and practical colleagues...clinton has been telling folks who republicans really were going back to the 90s.

this whole 'electability' argument for *this* particular race is pretty much an open admission of how sexist the country (and dc press) is.

------

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
3809 posts
Sat Aug-10-19 02:36 PM

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44. "Definitely"
In response to Reply # 38
Sat Aug-10-19 02:37 PM by Stadiq

          

I get the Biden argument, I just think it’s weak. You
have to gloss over a ton of shit to get to “it’s biden”

And he looks old man. Those debates were hard to
watch.

If get faded by a Booker line, how’s it going to go
vs Trump? Cory practiced that shit in the mirror
for weeks, and Joe looked lost.

And if Biden can’t make a pro-Obama let’s rewind
the clock 4 years case to a stage/room full of
Dems....how’s it going to go in the general?

Castro actually impressed me. I think he’d be the
better Obama heir here- he can articulate what worked
and what can be better still.

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12229 posts
Fri Aug-09-19 03:42 PM

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40. "McCain/Palin is a particularly interesting case, though."
In response to Reply # 23
Fri Aug-09-19 03:45 PM by stravinskian

          

They knew McCain wasn't exciting to their base, so they added Palin specifically to help with that. But she quickly became a net negative for that ticket, still exciting their base (most of whom would have voted anyway, excited or not), but turning off way more moderates (who either didn't vote or voted Obama).

You're right that Trump seemed to expand on a lot of the Palin-style rhetoric and it seems to have worked for him. But that overlooks the fact that Trump was seen as the more moderate candidate of that race, on policy, largely because he explicitly ran against his party's longstanding priorities on Social Security and Medicare. Trump wasn't running as a partisan. He was just running as an asshole. And Americans like assholes.

Palin was very exciting to her base but poison to the general electorate. I just wish the Dem base could see that such a dynamic can exist, and that certain policies that seem great to us and work as candy in the primary can then kill us in the general election. Biden, as terrible a campaigner as he is, seems to be the only one (other than no-shot candidates like Hickenlooper, Bennet, and Inslee) watching out for this. The primary is not the prize.

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
3809 posts
Sat Aug-10-19 02:27 PM

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43. "Trump was not the moderate. "
In response to Reply # 40


          


Saying he wouldn’t touch the safety net doesn’t
wipe out the other right wing shit he was slangin.

The Dems whole strategy was that Hill would
be the more reasonable candidate and pick up
suburban GOP votes.

From immigration, to torching Obamacare, to Iran,
Etc- He was right wing with a populist bent.

That said, did anyone even believe him on not
touching the safety net?

Hillary was the safe choice- the continuity.


And even if you really believe that Trump was the
moderate in the race- there’s no way in hell he’d
be the moderate in 20.

He’s spent his admin essentially being president
to his base and his base only.

He doesn’t even pretend to give a fuck about
anyone else.


The Dems would have to go left as fuck to make
Trump seem moderate.


That said, I do agree with you that Dems gotta
tighten it up on specific issues and not scaring
the shit out of slow Americans.

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
9535 posts
Sat Aug-10-19 05:48 PM

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49. "trump was viewed as the moderate to a lot of people."
In response to Reply # 43
Sat Aug-10-19 05:54 PM by Reeq

  

          

sounds crazy but we live in a dumb country.

the press was sucking him off for simply saying gay people are human beings at the rnc, 'entitlements' wont be touched, etc. and it worked.

not to mention everyone viewed hillary as the hawk and trump as the dove.

i posted the 538 analysis on here a while ago. 'never hillary' voters were more likely to be moderate/conservatives dems/swingies who felt she/dems were going too far left than they were to be progressives (despite the prevailing narrative).

20% of hillary voters voted for mccain in 2008. only 10% of bernie folks didnt vote for hillary (including 3rd party). and they had legit gripes with the national party.

just think about 'democrats' like howard schultz compared to democrats like michael moore. who is more likely to vote for a dem candidate in todays party and who is more likely to peel off because the party is 'too extreme'?

thats the lens we view 'moderate' through.

------

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
3809 posts
Sat Aug-10-19 06:54 PM

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54. "Sure but you could use the very data you posted"
In response to Reply # 49


          


As proof of Hillary’s relative moderate standing.

That’s a decent chunk of Hil voters that swung to
McCain.

I don’t have time at the moment, but I take issue
with the idea that the more moderate candidate
wins.

Seems to me Obama was left of Hill in 08, and given
that such a large chunk of her support went to
‘Maverick’ McCain....seems Obama was less
moderate than him too.

Now, o was a brilliant candidate but the argument
stands- don’t worry so much about electability.

To the specific point tho- if moderate equals continuity,
then I just refuse to believe folks thought Trump
would be less of a gamble than Hillary.

He was a fucking hand grenade to the system.

I also don’t think that because people hated hillary
so much = they thought she was too progressive,

Lady has been attacked since the 90s, etc.

I have more thoughts but gotta run.

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12229 posts
Sat Aug-10-19 06:03 PM

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50. "Respectfully, I think you're suffering from partisan blinders."
In response to Reply # 43


          

>
>Saying he wouldn’t touch the safety net doesn’t
>wipe out the other right wing shit he was slangin.

This isn't an issue of your opinion versus mine. There is very clear data on this.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/196064/trump-seen-less-conservative-prior-gop-candidates.aspx

It wasn't just his false promises on medicare and SS. He said he wanted an infrastructure deal, which has been a Dem priority for decades. He said he'd cut taxes for the middle class and raise taxes for the wealthy and corporations. He said he supported LGBT rights. He said the NRA had too much influence, for God's sake.

He didn't just say he was gonna kill Obamacare, he said Obamacare was "failing," an uncontroversial view at the time as it's what the press had reported for years. But he said he'd find a way to give people "terrific" health care and he specifically said "we're gonna preserve preexisting." He didn't even know what the word meant but he knew he had to promise it. He benefited a lot from vagueness, and he gave people the impression that they'd just revert to the pre-Obamacare system with the only change being that everyone would get coverage.

Clever people like you and I were able to see through those patently false promises. But the overall voting public, on average, saw a non-politician, running against his party's longstanding priorities, "telling it like it is." They also saw a billionaire who couldn't have become a billionaire without being a genius negotiator, who has enough money that he "can't be bought."

Voters are fucking idiots. Being the reality-based party, we will always be forced to contend with this unfortunate reality.



>The Dems whole strategy was that Hill would
>be the more reasonable candidate and pick up
>suburban GOP votes.

There was a "two lane" dynamic where the public was seeing Hillary as the candidate who spoke in a more reasonable way while also seeing Trump as the candidate who would be less partisan. And a lot of voters decided they didn't care how Trump talks.

But the problem for the campaign was: there just wasn't a way for them to break this dynamic where Trump was seen as less partisan. Trump could speak against base priorities without offending his base. Hillary could not. 'Conservatives' were hungry after being out of power for eight years, and progressives were complacent and thought the world had actually changed when it most certainly had not.

The campaign blared every day that they had the most progressive platform in history. The small number of voters who considered themselves progressive loved it. Even the Bernie voters, who I'll admit largely did fall in line thanks to the party jerking them off. The much larger group of voters who didn't consider themselves progressive got worried.

This is classic political strategy -- you run to the center in the general election. Trump was allowed to run to the center and Hillary was not. That wasn't a Hillary thing, or a Trump thing, or a Bernie thing. It's just the dynamics of one party holding the presidency for eight years.

Faced with this major disadvantage, the Clinton campaign did what they could, they ran as the campaign with less partisan rhetoric when they couldn't escape the fact that they had a significantly more partisan platform. And of course it didn't work, but it was the best they could have done.


>From immigration, to torching Obamacare, to Iran,
>Etc- He was right wing with a populist bent.
>
>That said, did anyone even believe him on not
>touching the safety net?

Yup. Voters are stupid.

But by the way, he didn't touch the safety net. Paul Ryan wanted it. He had a bill all written up. They held all three branches of government, and nothing happened. Trump will run on that in 2020. He'll say he protected Medicare from Paul Ryan but these Democrats want to destabilize it by throwing ten times as many people at it. And people will fall for it. And in this case, it won't be entirely untrue.


>Hillary was the safe choice- the continuity.
>
>
>And even if you really believe that Trump was the
>moderate in the race- there’s no way in hell he’d
>be the moderate in 20.

When I first read that from you, I rolled my eyes at your naive optimism in the American voter. However it appears there is at least some data to back it up and it was key to the blue wave in 2018.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/voters-think-trump-has-moved-to-the-right/

But remember, in 2018, the Dems who won ran on dividing power to check the executive branch, and preserving Obamacare. The platform being lined up for 2020 by every plausible candidate except Biden is to promise things that assume monopolized power again, including taking away most people's health care.


>He’s spent his admin essentially being president
>to his base and his base only.
>
>He doesn’t even pretend to give a fuck about
>anyone else.
>
>
>The Dems would have to go left as fuck to make
>Trump seem moderate.

Warren, Sanders, and Harris have all said they would nationalize one of the largest industries in America; one that, however reviled, is directly connected to people's very survival. There is very little room further "left as fuck" than that (though Warren, the candidate who more than any of the rest of them, honestly knows better, has already promised it in about a dozen ways). You're right, we SHOULD be able to run as the sensible, honest, pragmatic, thoughtful party. But we're not, and it looks like we won't see the light on that until 2024.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
19448 posts
Mon Aug-12-19 09:40 AM

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57. "n/m"
In response to Reply # 50
Mon Aug-12-19 09:41 AM by Brew

          

.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
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Mon Aug-12-19 12:44 PM

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64. "Maybe, but to be fair"
In response to Reply # 50


          


A lot of people just hated Hillary no matter what her positions were. Over simplification, but if someone else runs on her exact platform I don't think they necessarily lose in '16.

Not to mention I don't think typical voters are even aware that parties have platforms, much less know the contents.



>>
>>Saying he wouldn’t touch the safety net doesn’t
>>wipe out the other right wing shit he was slangin.
>
>This isn't an issue of your opinion versus mine. There is very
>clear data on this.
>
>https://news.gallup.com/poll/196064/trump-seen-less-conservative-prior-gop-candidates.aspx
>
>It wasn't just his false promises on medicare and SS. He said
>he wanted an infrastructure deal, which has been a Dem
>priority for decades. He said he'd cut taxes for the middle
>class and raise taxes for the wealthy and corporations. He
>said he supported LGBT rights. He said the NRA had too much
>influence, for God's sake.

Right- he had the fake populist stuff down, no question. I think that is more of an issue with Clinton and the Dems though- how did a billionaire Republican out-populist them?

>
>He didn't just say he was gonna kill Obamacare, he said
>Obamacare was "failing," an uncontroversial view at the time
>as it's what the press had reported for years. But he said
>he'd find a way to give people "terrific" health care and he
>specifically said "we're gonna preserve preexisting." He
>didn't even know what the word meant but he knew he had to
>promise it. He benefited a lot from vagueness, and he gave
>people the impression that they'd just revert to the
>pre-Obamacare system with the only change being that everyone
>would get coverage.
>
>Clever people like you and I were able to see through those
>patently false promises. But the overall voting public, on
>average, saw a non-politician, running against his party's
>longstanding priorities, "telling it like it is." They also
>saw a billionaire who couldn't have become a billionaire
>without being a genius negotiator, who has enough money that
>he "can't be bought."
>
>Voters are fucking idiots. Being the reality-based party, we
>will always be forced to contend with this unfortunate
>reality.

Well to your point I am definitely giving voters too much credit I guess- in this case anyway.

The only thing I will say, though, is Obama was very popular at the end of his presidency. So I struggle with this idea that the current/departing president was incredibly popular, his former SOS running for Pres, and the Billionaire who spent the previous 8 years or whatever claiming said popular president wasn't born in the US, the guy calling Mexicans rapists, etc- was the more moderate option.

>
>
>
>>The Dems whole strategy was that Hill would
>>be the more reasonable candidate and pick up
>>suburban GOP votes.
>
>There was a "two lane" dynamic where the public was seeing
>Hillary as the candidate who spoke in a more reasonable way
>while also seeing Trump as the candidate who would be less
>partisan. And a lot of voters decided they didn't care how
>Trump talks.
>
>But the problem for the campaign was: there just wasn't a way
>for them to break this dynamic where Trump was seen as less
>partisan. Trump could speak against base priorities without
>offending his base. Hillary could not. 'Conservatives' were
>hungry after being out of power for eight years, and
>progressives were complacent and thought the world had
>actually changed when it most certainly had not.

I definitely agree that our side was complacent. I remember election night '12, some talking head talking about the GOP may never win the presidency again unless they become more inclusive. I even believed it at the time.

>
>The campaign blared every day that they had the most
>progressive platform in history. The small number of voters
>who considered themselves progressive loved it. Even the
>Bernie voters, who I'll admit largely did fall in line thanks
>to the party jerking them off. The much larger group of voters
>who didn't consider themselves progressive got worried.

But how many voters really know whats in the party platform, though?

And again I don't want to rehash '16 too much, but the Clinton campaign didn't do a great job communicating/selling their message in my opinion- so even if she did take on a very partisan platform, I question how much people even knew that.

I just don't think many voters checked her website and said "nope, too progressive...Trump seems more reasonable"

>
>This is classic political strategy -- you run to the center in
>the general election. Trump was allowed to run to the center
>and Hillary was not. That wasn't a Hillary thing, or a Trump
>thing, or a Bernie thing. It's just the dynamics of one party
>holding the presidency for eight years.
>
>Faced with this major disadvantage, the Clinton campaign did
>what they could, they ran as the campaign with less partisan
>rhetoric when they couldn't escape the fact that they had a
>significantly more partisan platform. And of course it didn't
>work, but it was the best they could have done.
>
>
>>From immigration, to torching Obamacare, to Iran,
>>Etc- He was right wing with a populist bent.
>>
>>That said, did anyone even believe him on not
>>touching the safety net?
>
>Yup. Voters are stupid.
>
>But by the way, he didn't touch the safety net. Paul Ryan
>wanted it. He had a bill all written up. They held all three
>branches of government, and nothing happened. Trump will run
>on that in 2020. He'll say he protected Medicare from Paul
>Ryan but these Democrats want to destabilize it by throwing
>ten times as many people at it. And people will fall for it.
>And in this case, it won't be entirely untrue.

Well, in this case I consider Obamacare part of the safety net. So, he *shouldn't* be able to run on not trying to touch it.

>
>
>>Hillary was the safe choice- the continuity.
>>
>>
>>And even if you really believe that Trump was the
>>moderate in the race- there’s no way in hell he’d
>>be the moderate in 20.
>
>When I first read that from you, I rolled my eyes at your
>naive optimism in the American voter. However it appears there
>is at least some data to back it up and it was key to the blue
>wave in 2018.
>
>https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/voters-think-trump-has-moved-to-the-right/
>
>But remember, in 2018, the Dems who won ran on dividing power
>to check the executive branch, and preserving Obamacare. The
>platform being lined up for 2020 by every plausible candidate
>except Biden is to promise things that assume monopolized
>power again, including taking away most people's health care.

Yeah, and this is where I agree with you for the most part.

I hope its not too late for the candidates/party to tighten their message.

I go back and forth. A public option is probably the more acceptable answer at this point. But its essentially universal access rather than coverage.

That said, M4A is going to scare voters- especially because I don't think I trust Dems to sell/explain it.

That isn't just my typical cynicism with the party, its complicated to explain.

Especially when voters are hearing that they'll lose their insurance, private insurance may be illegal depending on the plan, etc.

How do you explain it all to voters? How do you explain do voters who actually like their insurance that they are still at the mercy of their employer.


Hell, my insurance isn't too bad honestly. But its expensive as fuck and goes up every year. And because I have a pre-existing, I pause when considering other career options.

Its a trap in a sense. How are Dems going to help voters who like their insurance see that?

I'm rambling at this point, but bottom line is that I see your reasoning.

>
>
>
>>He’s spent his admin essentially being president
>>to his base and his base only.
>>
>>He doesn’t even pretend to give a fuck about
>>anyone else.
>>
>>
>>The Dems would have to go left as fuck to make
>>Trump seem moderate.
>
>Warren, Sanders, and Harris have all said they would
>nationalize one of the largest industries in America; one
>that, however reviled, is directly connected to people's very
>survival. There is very little room further "left as fuck"
>than that (though Warren, the candidate who more than any of
>the rest of them, honestly knows better, has already promised
>it in about a dozen ways). You're right, we SHOULD be able to
>run as the sensible, honest, pragmatic, thoughtful party. But
>we're not, and it looks like we won't see the light on that
>until 2024.

I need to do more research on each candidate's individual healthcare plans. I wonder if there is something between M4A and a public option.

I go back and forth man. I get the reasoning of we need to beat Trump so lets play it safe. I get it. And I think I would be more on board if it wasn't Biden, honestly. My issue with Biden isn't his plans/platform/whatever nearly as much as its just Biden himself. I don't trust him to not fuck it up.


I am very anxious to see Warren and Biden debate for a lot of reasons. But I really want to see her present her healthcare plan and why it would be better. I want to see her try to convince Biden voters.

  

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Lurkmode
Member since May 07th 2011
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Mon Aug-12-19 10:55 AM

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58. "Correct Trump is not a moderate but you are discussing this with"
In response to Reply # 43


  

          

someone using the Trump pivot argument so he will not admit it.

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12229 posts
Mon Aug-12-19 11:34 AM

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59. "For the record I never said he was a moderate."
In response to Reply # 58


          


(Or, for that matter, that being a moderate is a good thing, apart from making someone more likely to win a US Presidential election.)

I said he presented himself as a moderate and was seen that way by the voters. That is not an opinion, it's a measured fact.

And the fact that being seen as the less partisan candidate gives one an electoral advantage is basic textbook political science.


I have no idea what this "Trump pivot argument" is that you think I'm making. Trump didn't even have to pivot in 2016, he staked out these positions in the primary.

If you think I'm talking about Trump's strategy in 2020, then I don't think you're paying attention.

  

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Lurkmode
Member since May 07th 2011
3720 posts
Mon Aug-12-19 01:12 PM

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65. "Ok let me correct my post. Trump is seen as moderate by unicorns"
In response to Reply # 59


  

          


>
>I said he presented himself as a moderate and was seen that
>way by the voters. That is not an opinion, it's a measured
>fact.
>

He presented himself as all things, to all people, all the time. It's a measured poll like the Bradley effect and the Wilder effect.

>And the fact that being seen as the less partisan candidate
>gives one an electoral advantage is basic textbook political
>science.
>

Yeah all about the pivot to the middle after the primary, the media and pundits push it hard but someone looking for a moderate would not vote for Trump.

>I have no idea what this "Trump pivot argument" is that you
>think I'm making. Trump didn't even have to pivot in 2016, he
>staked out these positions in the primary.
>


I'm talking about an NBC reporter who said Trump's teleprompter reading after the mass shooting was a pivot and one of Trumps speech that he gave in the past, was called a pivot. You the media and pundits are doing the same thing by saying people voted for him because they saw him as less partisan or moderate.

>If you think I'm talking about Trump's strategy in 2020, then
>I don't think you're paying attention.
>

You are not paying attention if you think voters who want a moderate voted for Trump based on that, because they couldn't see his bs for what it is. They just tell that lie.

Nobody is voting for Trump because he tells it like it is, he is less partisan, he is an outsider all of that is a lie. Here are the facts.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/full-list-donald-trump-s-rapidly-changing-policy-positions-n547801

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12229 posts
Mon Aug-12-19 06:38 PM

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74. "So you're ignoring data that goes against your preconceptions."
In response to Reply # 65


          

>
>>
>>I said he presented himself as a moderate and was seen that
>>way by the voters. That is not an opinion, it's a measured
>>fact.
>>
>
>He presented himself as all things, to all people, all the
>time. It's a measured poll like the Bradley effect and the
>Wilder effect.


So I take it you're just denying that it's possible to measure voter sentiment. If that's the case then there isn't much more to be said.

And for the record, pollsters know about the Bradley effect, and it's perfectly straightforward to adjust for it. That adjustment, these days, is usually to not make an adjustment, because recent data comparing polling to electoral returns has been statistically consistent with there being no "Bradley effect" for Trump. That is, the data shows that on average people who supported Trump were perfectly willing to admit it to pollsters.


>>And the fact that being seen as the less partisan candidate
>>gives one an electoral advantage is basic textbook political
>>science.
>>
>
>Yeah all about the pivot to the middle after the primary, the
>media and pundits push it hard but someone looking for a
>moderate would not vote for Trump.

Well, they did, in 2016.


>>I have no idea what this "Trump pivot argument" is that you
>>think I'm making. Trump didn't even have to pivot in 2016,
>he
>>staked out these positions in the primary.
>>
>
>
>I'm talking about an NBC reporter who said Trump's
>teleprompter reading after the mass shooting was a pivot and

Oh, so some dude on TV made some trite and speculative comment that I never made, and you're projecting it onto me because I said some completely different thing that you didn't like. Okay then.


>one of Trumps speech that he gave in the past, was called a
>pivot. You the media and pundits are doing the same thing by
>saying people voted for him because they saw him as less
>partisan or moderate.

So by telling the truth about one aspect of how he won in 2016 I'm also making unrelated comments on how he's supposedly running in 2020?

I will say this: he will most definitely try to claim that he's the candidate less beholden to his party's base in 2020 (the definition of "moderate" that I've been using here). And if people believe him, he will gain some amount of advantage for it.

You seem to be getting hung up on the word "moderate," which as I've noted in other posts here, can mean a few different things. The people who voted for him did NOT do so because they thought he wasn't an asshole, a liar, a racist, a rapist, and so many other things that he so plainly was in 2016. A lot of his voters admitted all that and liked it --- those are the voters we'll never pull away --- but a lot of his voters admitted all that and simply didn't care. The question of whether he is beholden to his party's base is separate from the question of whether he is personally an asshole, liar, racist, rapist. But the former question is the one that more voters decided they cared about.



>>If you think I'm talking about Trump's strategy in 2020,
>then
>>I don't think you're paying attention.
>>
>
>You are not paying attention if you think voters who want a
>moderate voted for Trump based on that, because they couldn't
>see his bs for what it is. They just tell that lie.
>
>Nobody is voting for Trump because he tells it like it is, he
>is less partisan, he is an outsider all of that is a lie. Here
>are the facts.
>
>https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/full-list-donald-trump-s-rapidly-changing-policy-positions-n547801


LOL, so you think voters are paying attention to every shift of policy position? You have a surprisingly high opinion of the American voter's information capacity.

Again, the issue is whether voters thought he had a dogmatic attachment to his party's unpopular positions. If anything, his all-over-the-place statements actually HELPED the narrative that he had flexible views.

  

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Lurkmode
Member since May 07th 2011
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Tue Aug-13-19 02:26 AM

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75. "No I'm challenging the argument because it is weak."
In response to Reply # 74


  

          


>>
>>He presented himself as all things, to all people, all the
>>time. It's a measured poll like the Bradley effect and the
>>Wilder effect.
>
>
>So I take it you're just denying that it's possible to measure
>voter sentiment. If that's the case then there isn't much more
>to be said.
>

No anything is possible, so I am not denying anything but I will question it.

>And for the record, pollsters know about the Bradley effect,
>and it's perfectly straightforward to adjust for it. That
>adjustment, these days, is usually to not make an adjustment,
>because recent data comparing polling to electoral returns has
>been statistically consistent with there being no "Bradley
>effect" for Trump. That is, the data shows that on average
>people who supported Trump were perfectly willing to admit it
>to pollsters.
>

Washington Post had an article showing data where Democrats were not in hurry to tell pollsters they approve of Trump. So everyone is not willing to admit it.


>>
>>Yeah all about the pivot to the middle after the primary,
>the
>>media and pundits push it hard but someone looking for a
>>moderate would not vote for Trump.
>
>Well, they did, in 2016.
>

No they didn't, they voted for Trump.


>>
>>I'm talking about an NBC reporter who said Trump's
>>teleprompter reading after the mass shooting was a pivot and
>
>Oh, so some dude on TV made some trite and speculative comment
>that I never made, and you're projecting it onto me because I
>said some completely different thing that you didn't like.
>Okay then.
>


No it was some female on CBS, I didn't mean NBC. Anyway she did the same thing with Trump that you are doing, grade Trump on a curve. Which is what the media is doing. It has nothing to do with what I like or dislike, you are reinforcing a false narrative.

https://twitter.com/NorahODonnell/status/1158384268671881216

https://www.mediamatters.org/donald-trump/problem-medias-trump-pivoting-narrative

>>one of Trumps speech that he gave in the past, was called a
>>pivot. You the media and pundits are doing the same thing
>by
>>saying people voted for him because they saw him as less
>>partisan or moderate.
>
>So by telling the truth about one aspect of how he won in 2016
>I'm also making unrelated comments on how he's supposedly
>running in 2020?

One aspect is not enough to say voters see him as moderate or less partisan.

>I will say this: he will most definitely try to claim that
>he's the candidate less beholden to his party's base in 2020
>(the definition of "moderate" that I've been using here). And
>if people believe him, he will gain some amount of advantage
>for it.
>

Yeah he will lie again and people will lie when asked why did they vote for him.


>You seem to be getting hung up on the word "moderate," which
>as I've noted in other posts here, can mean a few different
>things. The people who voted for him did NOT do so because
>they thought he wasn't an asshole, a liar, a racist, a rapist,
>and so many other things that he so plainly was in 2016. A lot
>of his voters admitted all that and liked it --- those are the
>voters we'll never pull away --- but a lot of his voters
>admitted all that and simply didn't care. The question of
>whether he is beholden to his party's base is separate from
>the question of whether he is personally an asshole, liar,
>racist, rapist. But the former question is the one that more
>voters decided they cared about.
>

I'm not hung up on anything I used less partisan too. LOL you can't separate what he is from the positions he takes. His base doesn't care about everything you listed so why would they care if he was moderate, less partisan or wether he is beholden. He can shoot someone on 5th avenue but he better not be beholden to the party base because that's a deal breaker.

>
>>>If you think I'm talking about Trump's strategy in 2020,
>>then
>>>I don't think you're paying attention.
>>>
>>
>>You are not paying attention if you think voters who want a
>>moderate voted for Trump based on that, because they
>couldn't
>>see his bs for what it is. They just tell that lie.
>>
>>Nobody is voting for Trump because he tells it like it is,
>he
>>is less partisan, he is an outsider all of that is a lie.
>Here
>>are the facts.
>>
>>https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/full-list-donald-trump-s-rapidly-changing-policy-positions-n547801
>
>
>LOL, so you think voters are paying attention to every shift
>of policy position? You have a surprisingly high opinion of
>the American voter's information capacity.
>

I'm not the one who is saying voters picked Trump because he was less partisan, moderate. You are giving voters too much credit. It's not just policy positions everything he said and did was a lie and the voters know it, that's why I say, I don't believe any of those answers they give to pollsters, when they are asked why they voted for Trump.

>Again, the issue is whether voters thought he had a dogmatic
>attachment to his party's unpopular positions. If anything,
>his all-over-the-place statements actually HELPED the
>narrative that he had flexible views.
>

LOL they care about positions that you just said they are not paying attention too when he shifts ? This is exactly what I mean about the pivot/grade on a curve., when you call his lies "all over the place statements" that helped.

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Castro
Charter member
48789 posts
Tue Sep-17-19 03:59 PM

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424. "LOL"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

------------------
One Hundred.

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
9535 posts
Thu Aug-08-19 04:29 PM

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4. "btw medicare for all is a political loser (ive been saying for a while)."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

https://twitter.com/MonmouthPoll/status/1159494436793016321

by almost a 3:1 margin...dem voters in iowa choose a plan that more resembles betos medicare or america vs medicare for all. national polls look similar. its basically the public option that obama wanted to include in obamacare (people like obama and hillary actually know what they are doing/talking about).

repubs (and joe lieberman) didnt vote down the public option because they thought it would be a bad idea. they voted it down because they knew it would be wildly popular and ultimately usher people into single payer healthcare via choice/market.

this is what dems should be running on (hopefully warren sees the light). if dems run on proposals that are unpopular (even in their own base) like single payer healthcare with no private insurance or private insurance being relegated to a supplemental plan...they will lose. point blank.



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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
12501 posts
Thu Aug-08-19 04:59 PM

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5. "i think making private insurance illegal is a loser"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

even bernies plan has a period of implementation. it would be easy to have a public option be part of the phase in process right?

i think pete does a good job of explaining why he wants medicare for america (is there a diff between pete and beto on this policy wise?)

the problem is i dont know that bernie wants to eliminate private insurance just because their evil i think he sees it as a real road block to having successful medicare for all. if private insurance remains then the cost of medicare will remain higher per user than it needs to. which then will make it unpopular and lead to repeal attempts like obama care has. i dont know if any of this is true but thats my very lightly informed hunch.

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
12501 posts
Thu Aug-08-19 05:34 PM

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6. "The Issues: Politico Guide to Candidates"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

https://www.politico.com/2020-election/candidates-views-on-the-issues/

i just found it but looks like you can click on a given issue and see whos for or against it. ill spend some time on it.

  

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Stevie Lee
Member since Aug 17th 2008
1142 posts
Thu Aug-08-19 06:06 PM

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7. "still the same as 2016: Bernie is the only real option"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

(I'll vote for Warren if she's the candidate, though)

I also feel like Bernie is about to surge ahead.

  

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Trinity444
Charter member
40824 posts
Thu Aug-08-19 06:42 PM

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8. "what’s up with Yang?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

any good
I’ve been out of touch since the boards went down lol

  

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fontgangsta
Member since Sep 04th 2005
5179 posts
Fri Aug-09-19 08:58 AM

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11. "this piece he wrote on gun control is so fucking on point"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

which means it will of course never happen
https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/07/opinions/second-amendment-solution-to-gun-violence-yang/index.html

  

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Jon
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Fri Aug-09-19 09:29 AM

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13. "Wrong Yang, but that seems authoritarian as hell"
In response to Reply # 11
Fri Aug-09-19 09:45 AM by Jon

          

Making all gun-owners into unfree soldiers of the current regime would make the ruling class even more powerful. Imagine if the Black Panthers were forced to be active military members for the duration of their ability to arm themselves? "Ah yeah, we got a problem with these here black panthers, lets send them to some far-off country to die for our freedumbs"

Bad idea

(Granted, back in those days, the government had plenty of other ways to fuck over domestic freedom fighters, so the analogy isnt perfect, but just trying to roughly illustrate the idea. I dont like it. Neither would the founding fathers who hated the entire idea of a permanent standing army, and would probably regard such a thing to be more like the British Army than a "regulated militia" -- not that the slave-owning founding fathers opinions should ever be considered gospel, but if we're going to appeal to their intentions with the Constitution, i dont think this would fit)

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
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Fri Aug-09-19 09:41 AM

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16. "i think she was asking about Andrew Yang, not Jeff"
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

  

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Jon
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17. "Oh shit haha, my quick-skimming ass fell for it too smh"
In response to Reply # 16


          

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
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18. "when i started reading it i thought what a coincedence"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

is jeff related??? then saw no mention of andrew lol

  

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Jon
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19. "We got hosed lol"
In response to Reply # 18


          

  

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Jon
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20. "My fav thing bout Yang: enthusiasm 4 problem-solving over politics"
In response to Reply # 8


          

  

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Lurkmode
Member since May 07th 2011
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Fri Aug-09-19 12:12 PM

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25. "All you need to know about Yang"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

right here

https://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=13341735&mesg_id=13341735&page=2#13341814

---------------------------
Signature

  

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My_SP1200_Broken_Again
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78. "he needs a cabinet seat for sure.. dude is on point."
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

------------------------------------
https://soundcloud.com/djchiefone
https://www.instagram.com/dj_chief_one

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Tue Aug-13-19 09:32 AM

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80. "He's really unconvincing when he cries."
In response to Reply # 8


          


Apart from that, run of the mill vanity candidate.

He probably thinks he's raising awareness for his pet issue (UBI, which really is a profoundly important idea). But he's too vain to realize that he's actually setting it back by turning it into a punchline and the axis of a crackpot presidential run.

  

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navajo joe
Member since Apr 13th 2005
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Wed Aug-14-19 10:52 AM

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105. "I thought I was the only one "
In response to Reply # 80


  

          

he cries like the husband who killed his wife in an episode of Law & Order

"Regardless if you listen to me, in the end we'll see."
-Cee-Lo

"You’ve had 4 years of Trump University and are still failing the final exam smh"
-Bree Newsome Bass

  

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RobOne4
Member since Jun 06th 2003
56545 posts
Thu Aug-08-19 11:36 PM

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10. "I wanted Warren to run last time "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

im still riding with her

November 8th, 2005 The greatest night in the history of GD!

  

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Jon
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12. "Tulsi first...Yang and Bernie tied close behind her...Warren acceptable"
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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Hitokiri
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14. "As of right now, I want a Warren/Castro ticket."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

--
"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

"There is only one god and his name is death. And there is only one thing we say to death: not today."

  

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Jon
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15. "I like the that Castro is an urban dev guy. Id send him my ideas lol"
In response to Reply # 14
Fri Aug-09-19 09:43 AM by Jon

          

We have so much work to do to rehabilitate the urban planning and built environment of like 95% of the country

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
65407 posts
Fri Aug-09-19 11:31 AM

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21. "Warren, then maybe Kamala"
In response to Reply # 0


          

shut up already, damn

  

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Mynoriti
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Fri Aug-09-19 11:39 AM

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22. "Warren but I'm not convinced she can win"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I'm not team Tulsi or anything but I feel like she's the only candidate Trump would be scared of

--------
http://ambitiondeficitdisorder.tumblr.com/

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Fri Aug-09-19 11:56 AM

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24. "I read a tweet recently that was like, stop worrying about "electability..."
In response to Reply # 22


          

That's a sure fire way to ensure we lose. Judging by "electability" Biden is the frontrunner and we're seeing that man's brain rot right before our very eyes so he's no fucking shoe in.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
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Fri Aug-09-19 12:14 PM

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26. "yeah Biden looks even older than I thought"
In response to Reply # 24


          


Shit is sad and I’m not even a fan.

  

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Mynoriti
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30. "i mean on one hand i agree"
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

and on the other hand its twitter, and letting twitter decide the candidate is also a sure fire way to lose.

--------
http://ambitiondeficitdisorder.tumblr.com/

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Fri Aug-09-19 12:31 PM

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31. "That tweet made no declaration about who should win lol"
In response to Reply # 30


          

It was just a general statement about the mentality.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Mynoriti
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Fri Aug-09-19 12:34 PM

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32. "oh i know"
In response to Reply # 31


  

          

just a general statement about twitter lol

--------
http://ambitiondeficitdisorder.tumblr.com/

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Fri Aug-09-19 01:02 PM

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36. "Hahah word and in that case - co-sign."
In response to Reply # 32


          

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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navajo joe
Member since Apr 13th 2005
5975 posts
Fri Aug-09-19 12:26 PM

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28. "RE: Warren but I'm not convinced she can win"
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

>I'm not team Tulsi or anything but I feel like she's the only
>candidate Trump would be scared of
>
>

Why because they are on the same side?

"Regardless if you listen to me, in the end we'll see."
-Cee-Lo

"You’ve had 4 years of Trump University and are still failing the final exam smh"
-Bree Newsome Bass

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Fri Aug-09-19 12:28 PM

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29. "LOL - exactly."
In response to Reply # 28


          

>>I'm not team Tulsi or anything but I feel like she's the
>only
>>candidate Trump would be scared of
>>
>>
>
>Why because they are on the same side?

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
9535 posts
Fri Aug-09-19 02:45 PM

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39. "lol she got the russian government playing defense for her."
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

https://twitter.com/RVAwonk/status/1158396082126315520

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
12501 posts
Fri Aug-09-19 12:21 PM

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27. "Slate’s guide to the presidential candidates"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/08/2020-beto-orourke-el-paso-warren-biden-booker-trump.html

this is a funny read

Rank 1
LAST WEEK
UNRANKED
Beto O’Rourke
This is more like it.
Until this week, Beto O’Rourke’s presidential campaign had verged on being what we might call “historically unmemorable.” Since his optimistic and overhyped launch on the cover of Vanity Fair earlier this year, all indicators for O’Rourke had free-fallen: in fundraising, in national polling, in early state polling, in media coverage. He served as a go-to whipping boy during the two debates in which he participated. It wasn’t until this week that the candidate we saw energize Democrats nationwide in his Senate race last year showed a glimpse of his former imposing self. And he did it with one line: “Members of the press, what the fuck?” O’Rourke was enraged following last weekend’s shooting in his hometown of El Paso, Texas, and a reporter’s question about what the president could do differently to help pushed him over the edge. It’s been impressive to watch O’Rourke defend his city and target the president with an authentic directness about Trump’s incitement of white nationalist acts of violence. The Surge has no idea, and doesn’t particularly care, about what this week will mean for O’Rourke’s standing in the presidential race. In the absence of incumbent national leadership, though, it was comforting to see O’Rourke fill the void.

Rank 2
LAST WEEK
UNRANKED
Elizabeth Warren
Your now-confirmed debate winner.
Yeah yeah yeah, we chuckleheads in the media all write our columns immediately after presidential debates about who “won” and “lost” them, but members of the press, what the fuck? What do we know? What’s our deal? After making our grand pronouncements, we all hold our breath for a few days and wait for polling to come back to see if the public’s interpretation of events matches ours. And after last week’s two CNN debates, it appears that pundits and Democratic primary voters were on the same page: Massachusetts Sen. Elizabeth Warren dominated. In a HuffPost/YouGov poll of Democratic and Democratic-leaning voters, 50 percent said their opinion of Warren improved, while only 6 percent said it worsened. That net change of 44 percentage points was the strongest of the 20 candidates who'd debated over the course of two nights, with South Bend, Indiana, Mayor Pete Buttigieg coming in a distant second with a net change of 24 points. Warren’s post-debate national polling average also received a modest bump, and she’s now on the precipice of passing Sen. Bernie Sanders for second place in national polling averages. Warren doesn’t spike, and she doesn’t collapse: She just grows a point or two each month. It’s a healthy trajectory to ride.

Rank 3
LAST WEEK
#1
John Delaney
Your now-confirmed debate loser.
Remember that first debate last week, when CNN moderators devoted an inordinate amount of attention to former Maryland Rep. John Delaney to serve as the substitute moderate foil to Sanders and Warren in Joe Biden’s absence? There was a strain of thought afterward that this might have helped Delaney: He got a lot of face time to introduce himself and to argue for a moderate approach to policymaking that still appeals to a large segment of the Democratic electorate. It was a reasonable take! But also wrong. That same HuffPost/YouGov survey mentioned above showed Delaney to be the debates’ biggest loser. Only 2 percent of voters’ opinions of Delaney improved, while 32 percent of voters’ opinions worsened. This is why it’s such a risk for candidates, even lower-polling ones, to go negative—especially in service of an incremental policy vision—against beloved, higher-polling candidates in early debates: It can make voters really dislike you! Delaney was polling at nothing before the debates and now will continue to poll at nothing, but with a fresh new net–30 percent of the Democratic primary electorate viewing him as a jerk. Oops.

Rank 4
LAST WEEK
#3
Joe Biden
Another shaky week survived. Somehow.
The last debates officially changed the Surge’s (EXPERT, MUST-CREDIT) opinion of the former vice president’s central vulnerability. It’s not that he could prove too moderate or out of touch with the trajectory of the Democratic electorate; there’s plenty of space within the party for his center-leftism, and there’s no major center-left rival to contend with him. The central vulnerability, instead, is his age, which has revealed itself to be a Factor in his ability to campaign and debate in a yearslong race (and in his potential administration—remember, the winner of this contest literally has to be PRESIDENT OF AMERICA for four years). He lost his train of thought throughout the debate, and in the days after, during a fundraiser, he referred to the shootings in El Paso and Dayton as “the tragic events in Houston today and also in Michigan the day before.” The Surge does not mock such septuagenarian fogginess; it simply notes that these moments seem to be happening on the regular, or at least during the rare days when Biden is out campaigning. Biden’s polling, however, has held relatively steady since the debates. Guess we’re doing this, huh?

Rank 5
LAST WEEK
#6
Cory Booker
What more do you jokers want?
Can a few of you out there tell a dang pollster that you would vote for Cory Booker? Why not? The candidate is generally appealing to a broad swath of the party, is young and energetic despite being quite experienced, and has performed well in the two debates. In the second night of the CNN debates, he was determined to have performed the strongest, by math. So what, pray tell, is this baloney? It’s 2 percent, 2 percent, 3 percent, 2 percent, all down the board, in terms of Booker’s national polling. Booker is falling in South Carolina, which his team expects to be his best early primary state. Members of the public, what the fuck? It’s not that the Surge is in the tank for Booker; we’ve been committed Lizard People voters since the Lehman Brothers collapse. But Booker deserves to get to, what, 5 in national polling? Like, at least once? Can you just get him to 5 PERCENT? He tries so hard and no one cares . Do the same for Julián Castro.

Rank 6
LAST WEEK
#3
Kamala Harris
The dreaded Rubio analogy has been introduced.
Following her breakout performance in the first debates in late June, everyone—including us so-called (by no one) geniuses at the Surge—declared Harris an instant top-tier candidate, and front-runner. Following her second, lackluster debate performance last week, though, she’s back to where she was before the first one: polling in the high single digits. She’s not gaining any support organically, just coasting off, or suffering from, debate performances and ultimately settling into a less-than-ideal equilibrium we call “fourth place.” A couple of months ago, before either debate, the Surge was talking with a Democratic consultant who described her candidacy as such: Voters of all stripes are supposed to flock to her; they just can’t find a reason to. It instantly reminded me of another much-touted, talented presidential prospect acceptable to various strands of the party but the first choice of very few of them. I’m not the only one to see warning signs of a 2016 Marco Rubio in 2020 Kamala Harris.

Rank 7
LAST WEEK
#7
Donald Trump
Sometimes a bad week is a bad week.
It’s been an unusual one for our president: For some reason, we haven’t seen the typical defenses of the president’s 11-dimensional tactical “brilliance” during a week in which he’s acted like a baby following a white supremacist’s mass shooting. Few commended his negotiating savvy as he escalated the trade war against China, China escalated back, and the stock market plunged. There seemed to be an almost eerie consensus that the president had had a bad week because he was a bad person who was bad at his job. Consider the Surge spooked.

  

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rawsouthpaw
Charter member
15441 posts
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35. "bernie all day every day"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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seasoned vet
Member since Jul 29th 2008
5400 posts
Fri Aug-09-19 06:54 PM

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41. "poor Bernie, clearly the best choice but cant catch a break"
In response to Reply # 35


  

          

  

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Errol Walton Barrow
Member since Jul 02nd 2002
6182 posts
Fri Aug-09-19 10:03 PM

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42. "I like that Joe Rogan podcast the other day"
In response to Reply # 35


  

          

Joe stepped out the way and allowed him to talk without going on his prepared rants and he came off like a man with a plan. I think he picked up some converts there.

I like Warren too, would not mix d her either

-------
http://adevotedappraisal.tumblr.com - Essays, reviews, short stories and free writes on music, film and life around us.

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
12501 posts
Mon Aug-12-19 09:23 AM

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56. "if you ever listen to bernie explain why he wants to do things"
In response to Reply # 42


  

          

it makes so much sense. i kind of start tuning him out because i already got it. i would gladly vote for bernie but i think im seeing warren is going to be a more acceptable to choice to people that would be never bernie types.

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
3809 posts
Sat Aug-10-19 02:44 PM

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45. "Ideas for Warrens VP?"
In response to Reply # 0


          


Who helps her lock in voters she might struggle
with?

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Sat Aug-10-19 03:35 PM

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46. "ideally a black moderate."
In response to Reply # 45


  

          

i would normally say anyone with blue collar rust belt type dna...but running 2 white people on the ticket after what we saw with black turnout in 2016 would be an absolute sin.

a strong black candidate juicing up black turnout would pretty much guarantee a win in every rust belt state but ohio anyway (like 2018).

dems have the suburbs rapidly coming their way but really left wing policies from warren like dramatically raising taxes on *all* guns *and* ammunition is not going to do her/them any favors.
https://twitter.com/Robillard/status/1160177903616897025

basically gun violence would decrease because people couldnt afford it lol. seriously. thats not a punchline.

i understand the impulse but she needs to dial back some of these proposals to fit the places dems saw pickups in 2016 and 2018. dems could lock them in for a generation but warren is running on stuff that would make them turn away. a lot of her platform is liberal/academia think tank stuff that relies on stats and projections irrespective of real world human perception/behavior.

------

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
3809 posts
Sat Aug-10-19 05:45 PM

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48. "I agree but any ideas on who specifically? "
In response to Reply # 46


          

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Sat Aug-10-19 06:42 PM

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52. "Castro Castro Castro!"
In response to Reply # 45
Sat Aug-10-19 06:51 PM by stravinskian

          

I'm at the weird spot right now where I don't see any good options for the top of the ticket. But Castro is the obvious runningmate for just about anyone, and particularly Warren.

(I'd talk about him at the top of the ticket if not for those stubborn polls. But maybe there's time.)

Reeq is absolutely right that the ticket can't be two white people, and that we need black turnout. But there's also an opportunity for historically high hispanic turnout, which has a lot of room to grow and is consistently getting more and more important, even in red states that might move blue in the coming decades.

Speaking of which, Texas has been a dream state for Dems for my whole adult life. And while it's naive to think that putting Castro on the ticket would finally win the state for us, demographics and polls make it clear that we will win it eventually, and it's not outside the realm of possibility this time. When we do, it'll completely change the Electoral College situation.

Also, as I think you noted elsewhere, Castro brings at least some connection to the Obama administration (*and* he can get through a sentence without finding a way to say the opposite of what he meant to say). And generally as a former Cabinet member, he can speak as a representative for the pragmatic work of government. What I'm dancing around is: he's enough of an insider that he might be able to temper fears of Warren's radical side.

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
3809 posts
Mon Aug-12-19 12:04 PM

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61. "I really like Castro actually"
In response to Reply # 52


          


I wish he was polling higher. He'd be my VP pick for Warren at this point, just not sure how he moves the black/moderate/etc vote.

Dude grew on me, though.

>I'm at the weird spot right now where I don't see any good
>options for the top of the ticket. But Castro is the obvious
>runningmate for just about anyone, and particularly Warren.
>
>(I'd talk about him at the top of the ticket if not for those
>stubborn polls. But maybe there's time.)

I would too, actually. Not my first choice, but I like him a lot.

>
>Reeq is absolutely right that the ticket can't be two white
>people, and that we need black turnout. But there's also an
>opportunity for historically high hispanic turnout, which has
>a lot of room to grow and is consistently getting more and
>more important, even in red states that might move blue in the
>coming decades.

Definitely.

>
>Speaking of which, Texas has been a dream state for Dems for
>my whole adult life. And while it's naive to think that
>putting Castro on the ticket would finally win the state for
>us, demographics and polls make it clear that we will win it
>eventually, and it's not outside the realm of possibility this
>time. When we do, it'll completely change the Electoral
>College situation.
>
>Also, as I think you noted elsewhere, Castro brings at least
>some connection to the Obama administration (*and* he can get
>through a sentence without finding a way to say the opposite
>of what he meant to say).

Yep. I know you hate the word "establishment"...so pick another word if you like. But, I wish Biden wasn't running so the 'establishment'/whatever would throw more weight (endorsements, etc) behind a guy like Castro.

And generally as a former Cabinet
>member, he can speak as a representative for the pragmatic
>work of government. What I'm dancing around is: he's enough of
>an insider that he might be able to temper fears of Warren's
>radical side.

I agree, though he is being painted as radical on immigration. Though his stance is often mis-stated of course.

  

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kfine
Member since Jan 11th 2009
1409 posts
Mon Aug-12-19 12:27 PM

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62. "Interesting. I love Castro but don't see a particularly strong coalition"
In response to Reply # 52
Mon Aug-12-19 12:29 PM by kfine

          

rallying behind that ticket.

To compete against Cult 45, I think it's all about who can come together and build the most "harmonious" coalition that can appeal to the "largest" swath of Americans.

Castro's numbers have NOT been strong. Even with his name recognition. So one has to ask what large following he would bring with him, which combined with Warren's (or whoever the nominee) following, could galvanize excitement large enough to sway the nation??

And before saying Texas, Beto is the candidate polls have indicated brings the strongest electoral support from Texas not Castro.

And before saying Latin Americans, the pulse of Latin American voters has been all over the place.. there's been reports that they favor Biden, Sanders, Harris, Castro, etc. So just like with black voters, it seems the whole "monolith" paradigm is losing relevance.

Imho, if the dem nominee ends up one of those who are like, the top 5 or so in the polls, then the smartest pick for running mate would appear to be the best aligned OUT OF those other top polling candidates. OR a very popular outsider with good name recognition (eg. Abrams).

But selecting a running mate from candidates who've already failed to inspire a sizable following? Why not just shortlist the best folks from those tiers for Cabinet posts? lol.

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
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Mon Aug-12-19 12:43 PM

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63. "oddly enough (or not) i dont see latinos being excited for a latino"
In response to Reply # 62


  

          

not just because at least. if the person is good then cool but i dont see us voting for one just because theyre latino. like you said though, its not like all latinos vote the same any way.

i havent paid much attention to castro myself. the more i see about him the more i like him but i dont see him becoming super popular to warrant being a VP pick. were plenty far away so we will see. i definitely want him to get into the next round of debates.

  

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kfine
Member since Jan 11th 2009
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Mon Aug-12-19 01:12 PM

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66. "Lol not odd at all, and I feel you 100%. Another ex: I'm a black female"
In response to Reply # 63


          


but Warren appeals to me more than Kamala.

I still think representation matters and it plays a (small) part in how I personally size up politicians, but it's mostly in combination with other factors and has varying precedence.

What's nice is such a historically diverse field of candidates vying for the Dem nomination "finally" allows people to focus on issues more than identity, which is refreshing. There's more than one woman, more than one POC, some LGBTQ representation, etc.

Regardless of who advances, it's healthy for the discourse and enables a better read of the electorate as well (i.e. who from the pack do people really gravitate towards in spite of identity, ideology, etc.)

  

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My_SP1200_Broken_Again
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79. "she needs Bernie and vice versa.."
In response to Reply # 45


  

          

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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47. "btw if warren wins office then a repub gov picks her replacement."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

it would make the senate that much more unlikely for dems to win. i dont really see anyone talking about that.

and supposedly sane/moderate repub govs like baker (ma) and hogan (md) have been really showing their right wing ass lately. you notice neither of them really criticized trump for any of the recent shit. hogan pretty much bothsides'd the elijah cummings/baltimore fiasco.

its possible dems could win back her seat in a special election but thats still months of zero action (with dem base antipathy and repub attack ads highlighting that fact). plus do you really trust dems to win a special election with the senate on the line and typical out-party gains at play? remember scott brown?

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isaaaa
Member since May 10th 2007
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51. "Ain't nooooo one tlking about this"
In response to Reply # 47


          


Anti-gentrification, cheap alcohol & trying to look pretty in our twilight posting years (c) Big Reg
http://www.Tupreme.com

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Sat Aug-10-19 06:47 PM

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53. "Shit, somehow even I wasn't aware of this. "
In response to Reply # 47


          


Even when I was on the Sherrod train, this issue was enough to give me pause on him. I guess in that case it was less clear that we'd eventually win the seat back. But Taxachusetts isn't as lefty as people think it is, as evidenced by Scott Brown, Mitt Romney, and current governor whatshisname.

  

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kfine
Member since Jan 11th 2009
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Mon Aug-12-19 11:37 AM

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60. "Well, she's pretty much already endorsed Joe Kennedy III's run if"
In response to Reply # 47
Mon Aug-12-19 11:41 AM by kfine

          

she wins the nomination. That's a pretty strong candidate to run for successor. He's consistently won re-election in his district since 2013.

If the Dems can't even make an effective play for a blue Senate seat in MA running a Kennedy...

edit: not expressing over-confidence or anything; just pointing out that for MA in particular there appears to be a strong succession plan and Warren's explicitly said "let's get him elected to the Senate!" after he introduced her before one of her speeches, which seemed to imply not only her tacit endorsement of his run but that she would throw some of her muscle down-ticket to help him out.

>its possible dems could win back her seat in a special
>election but thats still months of zero action (with dem base
>antipathy and repub attack ads highlighting that fact). plus
>do you really trust dems to win a special election with the
>senate on the line and typical out-party gains at play?
>remember scott brown?

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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67. "warren herself isnt that popular in massachusetts"
In response to Reply # 60


  

          

in a solid blue state she has only 49% approval and 41% disapproval. +8 net favorability in a state that leans strongly in your direction isnt a good sign.
https://morningconsult.com/senator-rankings-q2-19-2/

to contrast...the *republican* governor who just won re-election has 73%(!) approval to only 14% disapproval. hes the most popular governor of his state in the nation.
https://morningconsult.com/senator-rankings-q2-19-2/

a solid majority (58%) of people in warrens state didnt want her to run for president.
https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2018/09/20/elizabeth-warren-for-president-new-survey-shows-mass-voters-don-love-that-idea/eRMzdOVBxe2Bc0Jxk1v9nK/story.html

so ma isnt quite the liberal/progressive bastion that a lot of people think it is.

the dynamics are there for a moderate repub senate candidate to succeed...especially in a less predictable special/off-year election.

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kfine
Member since Jan 11th 2009
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69. "Oh absolutely! I wasn't trying to imply that they aren't lol"
In response to Reply # 67
Mon Aug-12-19 01:39 PM by kfine

          

>
>the dynamics are there for a moderate repub senate candidate
>to succeed...especially in a less predictable special/off-year
>election.

Just that if Warren DOES end up being nominated for Pres, the Dems are set up to make about as strong a play as they can possibly make for her seat.

So if THAT doesn't even work, then they are in really bad shape (in MA, but elsewhere too). Which we already know from past senate race losses and the math behind the Senate, but would really be quite obvious if a Kennedy can't even win MA after a decent length tenure in the House.

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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70. "yeah on paper its a race that dems *should* win"
In response to Reply # 69


  

          

even when they win the prez and the opposite party tends to make gains.

i havent looked up kennedys district and what the partisan lean or his margin of victory has been. but he doesnt seem to be as far to the left as warren and that may actually be an asset to him in a statewide race.

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kfine
Member since Jan 11th 2009
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71. "Right. Ya I also think the dynastic element is an asset too, as wack"
In response to Reply # 70


          


as it feels to give that side of politics credence, lol

But the Kennedys "are" the most high profile political dynasty the Dems have, really... with comparable influence to say what the Bushes have/had with Republicans.

I'm not well-versed on how progressive JKIII is compared to Warren. BUT there are probably a sizeable chunk of voters in MA (especially older demographics) that would support him simply off the strength of who one or more of his family members were. And that could definitely help the Dems, given the constraints they're facing there as you said.

>
>i havent looked up kennedys district and what the partisan
>lean or his margin of victory has been. but he doesnt seem to
>be as far to the left as warren and that may actually be an
>asset to him in a statewide race.
>
>

  

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Bambino Grande
Member since Mar 14th 2019
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Sun Aug-11-19 04:54 AM

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55. "Andrew Yang or Warren"
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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68. "I feel like the practical democratic nominee never wins"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I go back to Mondale, Dukakis, Al Gore, John Kerry and I think they all shared the fact that none of them really had passionate bases but they were chosen as the candidate that Dems thought looked best on paper and could win over the rest of America.

Hillary (and Al Gore) are a little different because (i) they actually had more popular votes. I think Hillary is also different because people got very into the idea of a woman president. Nevermind it was a woman with a lot of baggage whose husband killed a lot of the feminist arguments for Hillary.

Anyway Obama and Bill Clinton were both the outsiders who got people hyped. People need that.

I may be an optimist but I really do think this is the election that could be transformative and a lot of different candidates can win. That makes me think its time to swing for the fences and not go with the safest bet. And it also seems weird that Crazy Joe is the safe bet.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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72. "'democrats fall in love. republicans fall in line.'"
In response to Reply # 68


  

          

as much as i wished we were as tribal and disciplined as republicans...history has shown dem voters rely a lot more on being inspired by individual candidates to turn out...as opposed to repubs who just habitually show up and vote on issues regardless of which vessel(candidate) is carrying them.

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Mr. ManC
Member since Jan 26th 2009
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Mon Aug-12-19 06:09 PM

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73. "I think Sanders/Warren is a winning ticket, with"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Gabbard, Yang, and Castro sprinkled in the cabinet.

________________________________________________

SUPA NERD LLC.
Knowledge Meets Nature
Musica Negra
#13irteen

  

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Bambino Grande
Member since Mar 14th 2019
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Tue Aug-13-19 04:04 AM

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76. "That sounds awesome tbh"
In response to Reply # 73


          

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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81. "horrible move. that would likely alienate large swaths of the base."
In response to Reply # 73


  

          

running 2 people of the same exact ideological strain from essentially the same geographic region is almost a surefire way to lose a presidential election (which is why nobody does it). it does nothing to expand your voter coalition. its even worse factoring in that its 2 old white candidates over 70 in a rapidly diversifying democratic party.

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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82. "Yeah, that's just a redundant ticket to me. I don't understand why you"
In response to Reply # 81


  

          

need Bernie if you have Warren on the ticket? Same goes vice versa. I am team Warren but if she consistently trails bernie in the polls she should fall back and endorse him to get that agenda across the line (and vice versa).

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Tue Aug-13-19 10:52 AM

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83. "this would be the smart thing to do but egos."
In response to Reply # 82


  

          

>I am team Warren but if she consistently trails bernie
>in the polls she should fall back and endorse him to get that
>agenda across the line (and vice versa).

just doing a brief skim of recent primary history...one of the top 2 candidates almost always plummets and it looks like bernie is going to be the odd man out (he had a pretty tenuous base to start with).

warren has all the momentum and has overtaken bernie behind biden (on average).
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/us/2020_democratic_presidential_nomination-6730.html

a few polls out of iowa (where bernie almost upset hillary) have bernie as low as 4th or 5th in that state.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EBkSZ20XsAEtlrK.jpg

if bernie dropped out and endorsed her so that their coalitions could likely unify...thatd make a progressive winning the nomination that much more likely. we know bernie aint dropping shit tho lol. dude could fall to 5th place and he will still be running up to the convention trying to persuade delegates to flip with printouts of his head to head poll numbers against trump lol.

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
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Tue Aug-13-19 11:37 AM

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88. "RE: this would be the smart thing to do but egos."
In response to Reply # 83
Tue Aug-13-19 11:37 AM by Stadiq

          

we know bernie
>aint dropping shit tho lol. dude could fall to 5th place and
>he will still be running up to the convention trying to
>persuade delegates to flip with printouts of his head to head
>poll numbers against trump lol.
>

This worries me a great deal- one of the reasons I didn't want him to run.

If Warren pulls ahead, and it really *is* about the progressive agenda...it will be a real test for him and his followers.


I could definitely see it going the way you laid it out here though.

One of the reasons it will probably end up being fucking Biden. Which, if it is, he better pick Warren as VP to unify the belts.

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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91. "bernie isnt really running a good campaign."
In response to Reply # 88


  

          

just look at the difference in this poll and the one from only a few months ago.

most people dont really pay attention to the nuts and bolts of politics...but he put together a pretty shitty campaign team of rabid loyalists who basically wanna center their entire campaign on grievances with 'the establishment' and everybody stealing 'his' ideas.

that shit dont really work with the democratic base...who is largely pro-institution and not motivated by animus.

right now he and his campaign are complaining about not getting favorable coverage from the washington post...and saying its because bernie criticizes amazon and its/wapos owner jeff bezos (sound familiar?).
https://twitter.com/HuffPostPol/status/1161324055817011200

biden is winning over working class whites and warren is winning over progressives (and women and suburban dems). bernie is just in the middle yelling and blamegaming.

bernie is still running like an agitator from the outside orchestrating a hostile takeover of the party (an approach that has doomed progressive candidates all over the country) and warren is running like an elected democrat just looking to lead and build/improve on the partys policies. which one do you think is more appealing to democratic voters over the long haul?

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My_SP1200_Broken_Again
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77. "Bernie/Warren or Warren/Bernie ticket will be powerful as fuck..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

------------------------------------
https://soundcloud.com/djchiefone
https://www.instagram.com/dj_chief_one

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Tue Aug-13-19 11:04 AM

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84. "they would objectively do worse than clinton/kaine."
In response to Reply # 77


  

          

potentially worse with black/hispanic voters, likely worse in the suburbs (the key demo in 2018 midterms gains), and definitely worse among moderates.

they might win most of the rust belt just based off high general turnout and anti-trump sentiment but you can forget about competing in az, tx, fl, ga, nc and a shitload of house districts needed to keep the dem majority.

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My_SP1200_Broken_Again
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Tue Aug-13-19 11:41 AM

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89. "lol what wildshit are you basing this on?"
In response to Reply # 84


  

          

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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90. "real life lol."
In response to Reply # 89


  

          

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My_SP1200_Broken_Again
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92. "so nothing.. thanks."
In response to Reply # 90


  

          

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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104. "did you miss 2018?"
In response to Reply # 92


  

          

when further left candidates got bloodied in swing state primaries and underperformed in voting blocs most necessary for democrats to win on a national level...while moderates swept governorships in every rust belt state but ohio, completely wiped repubs out of their cali stronghold in orange county, flipped 40 seats in the house, and flipped 2 sun belt senate seats?

bernie/warren poll worse than hillary among the constituencies that drove the 'blue wave' in competitive races all across the country.

theres a reason why warren barely has positive approval in a *blue* state while the moderate republican governor is approved by over 70% of the states voters.

thats what i base my comments on.

now its your turn.

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Vex_id
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Tue Aug-13-19 02:38 PM

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94. "LOL @ "objectively""
In response to Reply # 84


          

Forgot how much fun these posts were.

  

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Reeq
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112. "big sparta feel free to join in."
In response to Reply # 94


  

          

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kfine
Member since Jan 11th 2009
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96. "No data to support my musings but: I feel like if Sanders won the nom"
In response to Reply # 77
Tue Aug-13-19 04:03 PM by kfine

          

the only running mate he would literally even SEE as "on his level" is Warren.

But if Warren won the nom? I don't know lol... I don't necessarily see her selecting Bernie. Nor does Bernie come across as one who would enthusiastically agree to be VP. And if he DOES have the ability to tone down and play a support role like VP... I get the impression he would move like a shadow Pres/Dick Cheney of the Left (sorry lol I watched Vice recently), which doesn't strike me as compatible with Warren's leadership style. PLUS there's something to be said for the fact that if Warren is nominated over Sanders, that really should be taken as a decisive rejection of Bernie's style of progressivism by the Democratic electorate. As much as people like to group Sanders and Warren together, Warren has expressed clearly and explicitly in multiple interviews that she is NOT a Democratic Socialist. She LIKES markets, she just wants to regulate the living shit out of them lol and redistribute the wealth.

Tbh I think Warren at the top of the ticket would be most compatible with Buttigieg or Castro... maybe Booker (unless she went for a non-candidate, like Abrams or someone Deval Patrick-esque but not from her state). I'd be most excited to see her run with someone fresh... different demographic, different region, and harmonious policy leanings. But of those three, Buttigieg strikes me as the strongest match because he would bring the largest following that would (harmoniously) combine with Warren's, plus he's established strong momentum and raises money like crazy.

Ironically, if not for their weird increasingly contentious petty rivalry I see Kamala as the best running mate for Biden lol. I don't know if it could happen now, plus she balked at the suggestion during a press gaggle around the time he announced ("Umm, I think HE would make a good running mate for ME..."). But ya. They both appeal to the establishment set, could tag-team defending each other's baggage, and they both engage in a lot of doublespeak and flip-flops to obscure their less-than-progressive positions/track-records. I don't really see them vibing with any of the other top-tier candidates. So if the Dems end up nominating establishment, Biden-Harris would be my guess for the ticket.

And I know Pete is a longshot/dark horse, but if he managed to cause an upset a la Obama I think Warren would also be a good VP match for him. Harmonious coalition, harmonious policy positions, she has crazy momentum and would bring the experience and congressional know-how to the ticket that a lot of naysayers worry he lacks. I also think this would be the strongest ticket in 1-on-1 debate matchups against 45 and Pence. My only concern would be whether a Buttigieg-Warren ticket could sufficiently appeal to minorities. But I feel like Pete at least tries - he's got a black agenda, he's pro-reparations, he's pro-immigrants' rights, and most importantly he's responsive to feedback. He's definitely had his missteps... But a leadership style that adapts, takes accountability, and responds times 10 when blindspots are called out is much more appealling than the ornery, stubborn, leadership style boomers have been running with for decades (see Sanders, Biden, 45, Pelosi, Schumer, etc). Few minority candidates are cracking top tier, unfortunately. Maybe there are other democratic-leaning segments that can be targeted for turnout eg. Millenials, Generation Z, LGBTQ+, etc.

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
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Tue Aug-13-19 04:06 PM

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97. "im more and more suspicious of pete (for no real good reason)"
In response to Reply # 96


  

          

let me preface this by saying, he does have some real issues but my comments here are unreasonable complaints about him.

he checks too many boxes, especially ones that could be seen as contradictory on a superficial level

young
experienced
progressive
reasonable
white
diverse
big on religion
veteran


im sure theres plenty more. then i find out he has connections to el paso and the region as a whole. who created this guy? what else will we find out about him that only makes him look better?

i do agree that pete would be a good VP for either warren or bernie. he wrote a freaking paper on bernie for petes (heh) sake. i do agree that the weakness of such a ticket would be the appeal to minorities.

  

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kfine
Member since Jan 11th 2009
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Tue Aug-13-19 04:10 PM

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98. "Lol!"
In response to Reply # 97


          


I know what you mean

  

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Tw3nty
Member since Jan 02nd 2007
8424 posts
Tue Aug-13-19 11:32 AM

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85. "Harris and the rest of the field minus Tulsi as her cabinet."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
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Tue Aug-13-19 11:34 AM

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86. "Other Votes - check in"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

if you please. curious to see if there is an other candidate that has multiple votes in the poll

how many people are straight up undecided if they had to vote right now?

  

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Walleye
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Tue Aug-13-19 11:36 AM

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87. "Delaney!"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I'm forty now, and it's time to get serious about not wanting good things for people. Whether it's de-commodifying things that are required to live a healthy, stable, happy life or placing even the slightest brakes on our unending empire-building, it's time to put away childish things. That means voting for somebody who has carefully examined polling data and most perfectly articulated the principle that our lives (at least the ones that matter) are basically fine and that anything that's expensive or politically difficult isn't worth the trouble.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Tue Aug-13-19 02:23 PM

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93. "I need to see that parody commercial. "
In response to Reply # 87
Tue Aug-13-19 02:25 PM by Buddy_Gilapagos

  

          

I want a kid to come up and interrupt and him and say "I want an affordable education, place to live on a planet that's inhabitable" and him to pat her on the head and say, "that sounds really really tough. Sorry".




**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Walleye
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Wed Aug-14-19 07:23 AM

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99. "That cold-blooded Bill Dauterive-looking goon would do it"
In response to Reply # 93


          

It's probably what he thinks about before he goes to sleep. Then that frightening grin creeps across his perfectly circular face right as our fiscally-conservative-socially-liberal little guy drifts off into happy slumber until the sun wakes him with more chances to explain that wanting things is how you got Donald Trump, so we all better just pipe down as capitalism slowly murders us.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
14742 posts
Tue Aug-13-19 03:56 PM

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95. "I like Warren at this point. But I need folks to drop out to be sure"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I need to see if she can hold her own in one on one, or one on two battles. It's easy to coast when you are a known name in a field of 25.

Bernie is still playing the 2016 hits. Needs to flip it and remix it. I don't think he's built for this round. He worked last time because he was a foil to Clinton. He doesn't have anyone like that this time so he's just screaming at the clouds.

_______________________________________
You ain't the only one whose got problems. You ain't the only one who knows pain. Get up off your ass and just solve them. You still got a chance to try to change, try the shit again.
Devin tha Dude

  

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reaction
Member since Aug 09th 2019
188 posts
Wed Aug-14-19 09:29 AM

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100. "RE: I like Warren at this point. But I need folks to drop out to be sure"
In response to Reply # 95


          

>Bernie is still playing the 2016 hits. Needs to flip it and
>remix it. I don't think he's built for this round. He worked
>last time because he was a foil to Clinton. He doesn't have
>anyone like that this time so he's just screaming at the
>clouds.

Yeah in 2019 health care is so passe and higher wages, who needs that? I remember 3 years ago when an affordable education was the jam, now so played out.

Sanders represents a working class, underprivileged movement based around a consistent, lifelong dedicated message. This stat is very telling, from a recent Emerson poll Percent of each candidate's supporters making more than $100,000/year:

Buttigieg: 37%
O'Rourke: 30%
Warren: 20%
Biden: 18%
Harris: 18%
Yang: 18%
Sanders: 4%

https://twitter.com/eldon_katz/status/1156232984275628032?s=20

Also this "A big takeaway from this data is that wealthy, white areas tend to favor Mayor Pete. Recently gentrified areas lean Warren. And Bernie leads in both rural, white areas and urban, non-white neighborhoods"

https://twitter.com/freedaaron/status/1157327369608343552?s=20

Plus Bernie has 0 billionaire donors

https://www.forbes.com/sites/giacomotognini/2019/08/05/here-are-the-democratic-presidential-candidates-with-the-most-donations-from-billionaires/#77782e6d4c15

And finally Bernie stands alone in rejecting the corrupting influence of corporate money, even Warren has admitted she will use it in the general https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/02/26/warren_will_forgo_big_money_donors_in_primary_but_not_general_election_i_do_not_believe_in_unilateral_disarmament.html

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Wed Aug-14-19 10:28 AM

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101. "^^^^ Bernie Sanders."
In response to Reply # 100


          

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
9535 posts
Wed Aug-14-19 10:40 AM

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102. "lol dudes 1st post he came in *hot*."
In response to Reply # 101


  

          

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
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Wed Aug-14-19 10:44 AM

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103. "lol i didnt even notice that"
In response to Reply # 102


  

          

i mean the content isnt bad but it being your first post???

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
9535 posts
Wed Aug-14-19 11:08 AM

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107. "his stats are a pretty damning indictment of bernie as a candidate."
In response to Reply # 103
Wed Aug-14-19 11:25 AM by Reeq

  

          

simply running on 'rich people hate me so i must be doing something right!' isnt an effective campaign strategy lol.

elizabeth warren...running essentially on the same platform...is pulling 5x as much support from a group that bernie is completely failing with. so its not the policies...its the candidate.

im not sure if bernie supporters realize...but people who make over $100k vote...and they vote a lot. they make up 1 out of every 3 voters.

if you wanna demonize and cast aside 33% of the electorate and expect to win a primary...much less the general...good luck with that.

like i said before...bernie is running a pretty shitty campaign. zero focus on expanding his base and some strange fascination with alienating folks he needs to win.

politics (especially democratic party politics) is about coalition building. bernie and his campaign actually being emboldened by appealing to less people is weird to watch lol.

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
19448 posts
Wed Aug-14-19 11:11 AM

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109. "His "me against the world" mentality isn't helping either."
In response to Reply # 107


          

He's constantly on the attack, accusing media outlets of overlooking him (true or not, isn't the point) and playing the victim. It plays well with his core base but turns other voters off.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
9535 posts
Wed Aug-14-19 11:23 AM

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111. "yeah dude is repelling even people who like his policies."
In response to Reply # 109
Wed Aug-14-19 11:23 AM by Reeq

  

          

im not sure why red flags arent being raised by his campaign staff. i assume they wanna win but maybe not lol.

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
3809 posts
Wed Aug-14-19 03:20 PM

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130. "I get lower on Bernie the more I interact/read/hear his supporters"
In response to Reply # 111
Wed Aug-14-19 03:23 PM by Stadiq

          

I think you mentioned it in here somewhere.

I had the same issue with hardcore Hillary supporters, to be fair.


But their blinders/hero worship/saint making/etc is exhausting. They would rather lose with their candidate than win with someone who matches said candidate 90% or whatever.


Dude is in here attacking Elizabeth Warren. Huh?


I get its a primary. But dude didn't login to attack Biden. Or Petey Pablo. Or Beto.

He didn't log in to attack the 'centrist' candidates.


He logged in to attack the most progressive actual Democrat in the race.


And its a weak argument at that. As you said, 100k + vote. There are also no doubt other factors impacting that statistic.

And the other attacks? Shitting on the CCB. Calling her a weapon of the establishment. Etc.

Claiming that he was going to get "attacked" in here for supporting Bernie, when he.is.second.in.this.very.poll.

I'm not saying they shouldn't support Bernie if thats their guy. But they should at least be able to talk about his potential weaknesses that could/would lead to him losing.

Pretending the weaknesses aren't there does no good- ask Hillary supporters.

And they should focus their anger on the centrist candidates- not the other progressive in the race.

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
9535 posts
Wed Aug-14-19 03:49 PM

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135. "dude is acting like bernie wasnt the clear okp poll frontrunner"
In response to Reply # 130


  

          

not too long ago. like he is coming in here posting in hostile territory when most of us voted for sanders in 2016.

the attacks on warren are par for the cult at this point unfortunately. somebody else on here did something similar a while ago. scorched earth on anything seen as a threat to sanders (despite warren being nothing but respectful to him).

bernie skipped out on netroots nation this year...the largest political convention for progressives/activists/grassroots...because daily kos (the largest progressive political site and sponsor of the convention) wrote some unflattering but accurate articles on him. you cant make this up.

he still went and did a townhall on fox news tho...where only 3% of democratic primary voters tune into.

seriously these folks think all of this is gonna win them an election?

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reaction
Member since Aug 09th 2019
188 posts
Wed Aug-14-19 07:21 PM

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144. "RE: dude is acting like bernie wasnt the clear okp poll frontrunner"
In response to Reply # 135


          

>bernie skipped out on netroots nation this year...the largest
>political convention for
>progressives/activists/grassroots...because daily kos (the
>largest progressive political site and sponsor of the
>convention) wrote some unflattering but accurate articles on
>him. you cant make this up.

I'm sure you know this too but Daily Kos completely purged all Bernie voters in 2016 and is virulently anti-Bernie. There are entire subreddits like wayofthebern and kossacksforsanders that were created after the purge.

>he still went and did a townhall on fox news tho...where only
>3% of democratic primary voters tune into.
>
>seriously these folks think all of this is gonna win them an
>election?

Going on Fox News for the highest rated town hall of the year and on Joe Rogan where he's had 8 million views in a week and one of the most watched Rogan podcasts of all time is a winning move. You would be amazed at how many people who watched Rogan are now realizing that they have been lied to about who Sanders is and what he represents and now support him.

  

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reaction
Member since Aug 09th 2019
188 posts
Wed Aug-14-19 07:14 PM

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142. "RE: I get lower on Bernie the more I interact/read/hear his supporters"
In response to Reply # 130


          

>And they should focus their anger on the centrist candidates-
>not the other progressive in the race.

But she's not progressive in the sense that Bernie is. None of you guys question why Warren gets 90% praise from the media and Bernie gets 90% hate. Do people think the media has the common man's interests in mind? Really?

Isn't it odd that the media has pushed every candidate for awhile yet Bernie is the one who holds steady in the polls. Imagine if they pushed him for awhile. That will never happen because he is the enemy, by praising Warren they are helping vanquish the enemy. None of the other media pushes have stuck except Warren so even though she isn't the ideal candidate in their minds anything is better than Bernie. There are literally people on MSNBC saying Bernie makes their skin crawl with no pushback.

It scares me that this is the last chance for Bernie to run and if Warren is successful in sidelining him you will hear a huge sigh of relief from the establishment and she will be greatly rewarded. I'm seeing too many people being fooled by her and accepting that she is in the same league as Bernie, that is why she is the one I am focusing on. Despite believing she would lose to Trump, if she did make it in a Warren presidency would come with no great change. If you want structural change and I would argue that is what we desperately need again there is only one option.

  

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reaction
Member since Aug 09th 2019
188 posts
Wed Aug-14-19 12:10 PM

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113. "RE: his stats are a pretty damning indictment of bernie as a candidate."
In response to Reply # 107


          

>simply running on 'rich people hate me so i must be doing
>something right!' isnt an effective campaign strategy lol.

As I outlined Bernie is leading a movement of the underclass and those empathetic to it. In many ways he is more an activist than
a typical politician. It amazes me that hip hop is supposed to be rooted in compassionate politics and love for the underdog but Bernie is so reviled on here. He is a once in a lifetime candidate and if people blow this opportunity there won't be another one soon. No one can question Bernie's authenticity, his tirelessness and his dedication to helping others, that is why the overwhelming majority of activists support Bernie, from Danny Glover (https://www.facebook.com/berniesanders/videos/danny-glover-you-cannot-meddle-around-the-middle/356769618356179/), to Harry Belafonte (https://twitter.com/zachjcarter/status/982392714061926405?s=20) to Bobby Seale https://twitter.com/BlackSocialists/status/961229366272413697?s=20 down to J Cole https://twitter.com/billboard/status/1046083458076995584?s=20

>elizabeth warren...running essentially on the same
>platform...is pulling 5x as much support from a group that
>bernie is completely failing with. so its not the
>policies...its the candidate.

If she's running on the same platform then why didn't she cosponsor many of his Senate bills over the years (except Medicare For All which she has continuously waffled on) and didn't endorse this "same" platform in 2016. She's not a fighter or an activist. Where was her plan for Standing Rock when it was happening or her plan not to vote for Trump's military budgets repeatedly. I think Warren is the establishment's best weapon to stop the Sanders movement and that she is actually a wolf in sheep's clothing against radical change. When you have CAP and Third Way and Neera Tanden and the media in Elizabeth Warren's corner it doesn't take much to ask why am I being fooled?

I know OKP well and know that I will be vehemently disagreed with by 98% of the people on here but the bottom line is this, do you want to see a more fair and just world for the working poor, the sick, the uninsured, the underinsured, the innocent in places like Yemen, those who can't afford a higher education, the imprisoned, as opposed to just your own bottom line. If so there is only one campaign that will provide that. If you truly don't want that then vote otherwise, just don't complain about any of it not being fixed in 2020 and beyond.


>politics (especially democratic party politics) is about
>coalition building. bernie and his campaign actually being
>emboldened by appealing to less people is weird to watch lol.

Please print out this map and stare at it until you can see the blue. https://twitter.com/TweetingYarnie/status/1157352649060225024?s=20

  

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Walleye
Charter member
14874 posts
Wed Aug-14-19 12:30 PM

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114. "Hell yeah, dude"
In response to Reply # 113


          

"Politics" is something a verb. Keep telling people.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
9535 posts
Wed Aug-14-19 12:46 PM

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115. "warren isnt a fighter? shes a weapon of the establishment???"
In response to Reply # 113


  

          

lol what?

elizabeth warren has had more success for working people as a college professor than bernie has had in 30 years in congress.

if you can point me to bernies landmark law or anything anywhere close to the level of warrens consumer financial protection bureau then id be happy to hear about it.

i honestly cant tell if some of yall bernie supporters are real people or bots/trolls at this point.

bernie supporters legit might be the best weapon against bernie lol. cuz yall are on some cult level narrative warp and even prior (sane) bernie voters are running in the other direction because of yall.

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reaction
Member since Aug 09th 2019
188 posts
Wed Aug-14-19 01:40 PM

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117. "RE: warren isnt a fighter? shes a weapon of the establishment???"
In response to Reply # 115


          

>if you can point me to bernies landmark law or anything
>anywhere close to the level of warrens consumer financial
>protection bureau then id be happy to hear about it.

Putting aside the argument that the CFPB was set up to be unaccountable and questions of its effectiveness Bernie has huge accomplishments himself. First of all as the Amendment King of Congress https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/mar/24/bernie-s/bernie-sanders-was-roll-call-amendment-king-1995-2/ he procured $11 billion in money for Community Health Clinics as part of the ACA https://theintercept.com/2015/07/06/gop-senators-support-sanders-obamacare-expansion/?comments=1

More recently he was able to invoke the War Powers Act for the first time in American history in order to end a genocide in Yemen. Trump vetoed it but it was nevertheless a massive accomplishment in trying to stop the world's biggest ongoing humanitarian disaster that is virtually ignored. He also got 300,000 Amazon workers a raise to $15 an hour with the threat of the Stop BEZOS Act. He also helped Disney workers get $15/hour and that is without even being President, imagine what he could do if he was.

>i honestly cant tell if some of yall bernie supporters are
>real people or bots/trolls at this point.

I'm not going to attack you personally after this but I've read everything that you're written about politics on here since 2015 and I've never seen someone who better embodies the definition of neoliberal better than you and stravinskian. It is comical how much you guys have been wrong while all along parroting every mainstream talking point.

Again politics is not a game, people are hurting and if you want to see them helped in any significant way the only choice is Bernie, everyone else will pivot right and cave to corporate pressure guaranteed.

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
9535 posts
Wed Aug-14-19 03:28 PM

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132. "cmon fam you gotta admit this is some trumpian goalpost moving."
In response to Reply # 117


  

          

somehow the 'once in a lifetime candidate' (who ironically already lost an election this lifetime) is now the king of roll call amendments, the champion of symbolic but failed congressional legislation, and apparently a master at using dead end bills in a senate minority to extort concessions out of private companies.

imagine running for president on a platform based on a 30 yr record of 'other people got signature laws passed but i added a bunch of shit to them!'

and amazon cut benefits, worker hours, stock comp, and bonuses btw...so their real world wages actually fell.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/amazon-minimum-wage-hike-compensation-cuts_n_5bb573d2e4b028e1fe3a6ba9
but i didnt see bernie or his supporters rushing out to take credit for that part. congrats on another symbolic but meaningless headline victory i guess.

also thanks for publicly tying bernie to obamacare too. im glad you admit he played an instrumental role in devising a healthcare law that apparently sucks so much he wants to destroy it.


>I'm not going to attack you personally after this but I've
>read everything that you're written about politics on here
>since 2015 and I've never seen someone who better embodies the
>definition of neoliberal better than you and stravinskian. It
>is comical how much you guys have been wrong while all along
>parroting every mainstream talking point.

ah there it is. the good ol game of 'neoliberal' tag (anyone who doesnt flock to bernie is 'it').

when you cant win a debate on the merits just call everyone the progressive version of 'snowflake'/'cuck' lol.


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reaction
Member since Aug 09th 2019
188 posts
Wed Aug-14-19 03:49 PM

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134. "RE: cmon fam you gotta admit this is some trumpian goalpost moving."
In response to Reply # 132


          

there are so many distortions and smears in here just have time to respond to the most egregious

>and amazon cut benefits, worker hours, stock comp, and bonuses
>btw...so their real world wages actually fell.
>https://www.huffpost.com/entry/amazon-minimum-wage-hike-compensation-cuts_n_5bb573d2e4b028e1fe3a6ba9

All Amazon workers will make more than before https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2018/10/10/amazon-tells-bernie-sanders-all-workers-will-earn-more-despite-bonuses-stock-grants-going-away/ I'm sure you can find one or two Amazon workers complaining on Twitter but tell the 300,000 workers compensation will go back to pre Sanders levels and see how many would choose that option.

Also I noticed you left out the Yemen War Powers Act, there are 10's of 1000's of children starving and dying there as we speak but you may have gained one imaginary political point, congrats.

>also thanks for publicly tying bernie to obamacare too. im
>glad you admit he played an instrumental role in devising a
>healthcare law that apparently sucks so much he wants to
>destroy it.

Hi Joe Biden. Another lie, he would be IMPROVING it not destroying it but you know that.

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
9535 posts
Wed Aug-14-19 04:27 PM

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136. "wait youre co-opting amazon damage control pr statements now"
In response to Reply # 134
Wed Aug-14-19 04:37 PM by Reeq

  

          

just to try to save face for bernie?

thats even more trumpian than the goalpost moving. anything to look good even if it means gaslighting the people you are supposedly fighting for. based only on a big beautiful letter kim ju...i mean amazon sent to bernie lol.

you...an avid bernie supporter...actually saw 'amazon says' in the title and thought 'yeah lets run with that'?

3/4 of that article is about workers saying amazon is full of shit (like all unbiased analysis of their new compensation plan has detailed) but you went with the jeff bezos double pinky swear?

seriously...a bernie supporter is using what 'amazon says' to argue against actual amazon workers just so another purely symbolic bernie victory doesnt get exposed.

is this about just convincing people of bernie 'wins' or this about actually improving the lives of workers? think about that for a second.


>Hi Joe Biden. Another lie, he would be IMPROVING it not
>destroying it but you know that.

oh ok so you dont actually know what medicare for all is. somehow the system that eliminates existing private healthcare plans doesnt eliminate the system defining the markets for existing private healthcare plans?

medicare for all (as proposed by sanders) is an obamacare repeal. just from the left.




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reaction
Member since Aug 09th 2019
188 posts
Wed Aug-14-19 04:53 PM

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138. "RE: wait youre co-opting amazon damage control pr statements now"
In response to Reply # 136


          

They cited one anonymous worker, it was the first article that came up and not that I believe Amazon at face value but it's coming up on a year since November and I can't remember hearing any Amazon workers complaining about the raise recently and I follow things really closely, if you have feel free to link a 2019 article.


>oh ok so you dont actually know what medicare for all is.
>somehow the system that eliminates existing private healthcare
>plans doesnt eliminate the system defining the markets for
>existing private healthcare plans?

It improves healthcare and improves the ACA because the healthcare would improve and expand, it just doesn't improve the insurance companies balance sheets. You know these things and are arguing just to argue. If Medicare for All passed Bernie would be looked at as a hero for generations as Tommy Douglas is in Canada.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
19448 posts
Wed Aug-14-19 01:42 PM

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118. "Thank you."
In response to Reply # 115


          

>lol what?
>
>elizabeth warren has had more success for working people as a
>college professor than bernie has had in 30 years in
>congress.
>
>if you can point me to bernies landmark law or anything
>anywhere close to the level of warrens consumer financial
>protection bureau then id be happy to hear about it.

Beat me to it.


>i honestly cant tell if some of yall bernie supporters are
>real people or bots/trolls at this point.
>
>bernie supporters legit might be the best weapon against
>bernie lol. cuz yall are on some cult level narrative warp
>and even prior (sane) bernie voters are running in the other
>direction because of yall.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
15707 posts
Fri Aug-16-19 12:13 PM

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170. "warren isn't running the same platform"
In response to Reply # 107


          

and how is getting more support from the majority of the population a bad thing?
What?

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
12501 posts
Wed Aug-14-19 03:29 PM

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133. "upon further review: mods please delete my comment"
In response to Reply # 103


  

          

i take it back

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12229 posts
Wed Aug-14-19 01:58 PM

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121. "Pretty sure it's a Vex alias."
In response to Reply # 101


          


Vex reappears with a one-line comment after a long absence and then the same day some new poster arrives spouting his same silly arguments ("really, they call him the amendment king!"), claiming to have been lurking since 2015 (apparently he wasn't fired up enough about Bernie to post in 2015, or 2016, but he is now!), and beefing against the same people.

  

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reaction
Member since Aug 09th 2019
188 posts
Wed Aug-14-19 02:04 PM

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123. "RE: Pretty sure it's a Vex alias."
In response to Reply # 121


          

Nope. I tried to open a new account many times on here and always got an error message and nobody at OKP would ever respond to my emails. It wasn't until the boards went down recently and then back up that I tried again and someone finally responded.

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12229 posts
Wed Aug-14-19 02:12 PM

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124. "LOL, true, we are a very selective group."
In response to Reply # 123


          


I'm not so surprised it took four years to get into our good graces. Congrats and welcome!

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
19448 posts
Wed Aug-14-19 02:14 PM

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125. "Hahaha"
In response to Reply # 121


          

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
9535 posts
Wed Aug-14-19 02:24 PM

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127. "lol "
In response to Reply # 121


  

          

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
3809 posts
Wed Aug-14-19 03:22 PM

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131. "lol honestly had the same thought"
In response to Reply # 121


          

  

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Vex_id
Charter member
64516 posts
Wed Aug-14-19 05:27 PM

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139. "lol glad to see even after a long absence, I'm still on your mind"
In response to Reply # 121


          

That said, I don't do aliases.

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
9535 posts
Wed Aug-14-19 10:54 AM

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106. "bernie isnt even the 1st choice for 2016 *bernie* voters anymore lol."
In response to Reply # 100
Wed Aug-14-19 11:11 AM by Reeq

  

          

whats your counter argument for *that*?

https://twitter.com/gelliottmorris/status/1148549603387744256
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Per last week's Economist/YouGov poll, Bernie Sanders is no longer the 1st choice of 2016 Sanders voters; Elizabeth Warren is.

2016 Clinton voters...
Biden: 32%
Warren: 17
Harris: 17
Buttigieg: 7
Sanders: 5

2016 Sanders...
Warren: 29
Sanders: 24
Harris: 11
Buttigieg: 9
Biden: 6
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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
14742 posts
Wed Aug-14-19 11:11 AM

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108. "Not the person you're talking to, but this is the counter argument"
In response to Reply # 106


  

          

https://twitter.com/gelliottmorris/status/1148549604360839168?s=20

"There is a rather large margin of error here, though—on the order of 5-10% for each candidate."

_______________________________________
You ain't the only one whose got problems. You ain't the only one who knows pain. Get up off your ass and just solve them. You still got a chance to try to change, try the shit again.
Devin tha Dude

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
9535 posts
Wed Aug-14-19 11:21 AM

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110. "thats typical of early polling."
In response to Reply # 108


  

          

it also means bernie could be polling as low as 14% among *his own* 2016 voters.

if any majority....plurality...or even a significant minority of your previous voters are jumping ship...thats disastrous. most (competent) campaigns would take that as a sharp sign to correct course...not double down.

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Vex_id
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64516 posts
Wed Aug-14-19 05:57 PM

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140. "that's true and an important point, but the question is:"
In response to Reply # 106


          

Where will the Harris/Pete/Yang/Tulsi etc.. voters migrate to as the field gets narrowed down. There are many voters who would be happy with either Warren or Sanders as the nominee - and will likely support whoever is striding the strongest as the primary matures.

I think Bernie is in good standing, and will likely win NH (again) - but Biden is going to be tough to beat in the conservative democrat south.

I think Warren has run the strongest campaign of any candidate thus far - and it will be interesting to see if she can keep the momentum going to create distance between her and Bernie.

I don't see Biden picking up a lot of votes from those who are currently supporting more fringe/pro