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Subject: "Should Cleveland trade Wiggins for Love?" This topic is locked.
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ThaTruth
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91220 posts
Sat Jul-19-14 06:19 PM

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"Poll question: Should Cleveland trade Wiggins for Love?"


          

When people talk about Kevin Love the first thing they do is talk about his stats.

Much like Chris Bosh leaving Toronto going to Miami, Love's stats are most likely going to drop quite a bit going to a team with 2 other All-stars where he'll be the 2nd or possibly the 3rd option.

So then you have to look past the stats and determine what he'll actually bring to a team with Lebron and Kyrie and determine if that's really worth a max contract.

Poll result (62 votes)
Yes (25 votes)Vote
No (37 votes)Vote

  

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
What do you want out of a number one pick?
Jul 17th 2014
1
Another rumor..nothing official.
Aug 05th 2014
409
What do you want out of a number one pick?
Jul 17th 2014
2
not sure how any of this is even debatable.
Jul 17th 2014
3
      I guess it comes down to how good you actually think Kevin Love is...
Jul 17th 2014
5
      You need Wiggins to be good inside of one year, two max
Jul 17th 2014
10
      Not "eventually" even, how about "immediately?"
Jul 17th 2014
11
      Maybe not if I had a guarantee Hans stays healthy but anyone else, sure
Jul 18th 2014
29
Let's change this to what does Kevin love bring focus on +
Jul 17th 2014
4
RE: Let's change this to what does Kevin love bring focus on +
Jul 17th 2014
6
he doesnt have to
Jul 17th 2014
8
      RE: he doesnt have to
Jul 18th 2014
28
This is actually a good point:
Jul 17th 2014
14
      IMO that is a misleading stat though
Jul 18th 2014
63
Why not play it out a month or two into the season?
Jul 17th 2014
7
Twolves will move him
Jul 17th 2014
9
well said and now we see why this poll is swinging
Jul 17th 2014
13
That underestimates how singular of a commodity Love is.
Jul 17th 2014
12
^^ yup, the real turning point is rookie deal v. Kevin Love's $$$
Jul 18th 2014
50
      Flexibility for what? So they could sign a worse player than Love?
Jul 18th 2014
64
           Cavs roster, as is, has 3 All-Stars on it; they need rotation guys
Jul 18th 2014
72
                They dont have four years to wait and why should they?
Jul 18th 2014
141
                     that sort of short-term thinking woulda been a hit at Bear Stearns
Jul 18th 2014
159
                          RE: that sort of short-term thinking woulda been a hit at Bear Stearns
Jul 18th 2014
177
                               but we've just seen how the 3 MAX player scenario plays out
Jul 18th 2014
191
                                    Teams with three max players have won 5 of the last 7 chips lmap
Jul 18th 2014
204
                                    i love how the heat have become this failed experiment/cautionary tale
Jul 18th 2014
214
                                    MIA was one rebound away for being 1 for 4, only won in the lockout year
Jul 18th 2014
217
                                         the heat's window was small b/c wade got old overnight.
Jul 18th 2014
221
                                         They went to the Finals FOUR TIMES. Even if they Buffalo Billed it
Jul 19th 2014
228
                                    Each of those big 3's has a 2-way big as one of the max deals
Jul 18th 2014
218
                                         they wouldn't need *another* top dollar 2-way big on top of their big 3 ...
Jul 18th 2014
220
                                         "cheap" rim protectors? you know how much Hibbert gets paid, right?
Jul 18th 2014
222
                                         they could find one in the draft.
Jul 18th 2014
224
                                         If only it was that easy to project effective bigs
Jul 18th 2014
225
                                              I know, for every Ibaka, there's 2 or 3 Biyombo's and Rudy Gobert's
Jul 18th 2014
226
                                                   umm, what's wrong with biyombo or gobert?
Jul 20th 2014
239
                                                        aiyo.. seriously tho, guys...
Jul 22nd 2014
287
                                         You can keep repeating this, but it won't make it meaningful
Jul 20th 2014
233
                                              You repeatedly saying it isn't meaningful doesn't make that meaningful
Jul 20th 2014
242
                                                   Again, I'm just not seeing a net gain with Wiggins/dealbreaker w/Love
Jul 21st 2014
250
                                                   why not go after Hibbert?
Jul 21st 2014
251
                                                        And what do they use to acquire Hibbert?
Jul 21st 2014
255
                                                             Suddenly, I'm the guy under appreciating Hibbert?
Jul 21st 2014
262
                                                                  huh?
Jul 22nd 2014
272
                                                                       waiters/bennett really wouldn't get hibbert?
Jul 22nd 2014
275
                                                                            Conversation started? Sure. Deal done? I'm not as sure
Jul 23rd 2014
295
                                                   but it isn't.
Jul 21st 2014
253
                                                        EGGZACKLEE (c) Magic Johnson
Jul 21st 2014
256
                                                             dudes are tripping.
Jul 22nd 2014
267
                                                                  both of them are cheap because they're on rookie contracts
Jul 22nd 2014
276
                                                                       nothing's stopping CLE from drafting / trading for a guy...
Jul 22nd 2014
277
                                                                            an nba championship team doesn't start mozgov or mahinmi
Jul 22nd 2014
278
                                                                                 EGGZACKLEE (c) Magic Johnson
Jul 22nd 2014
279
                                                                                 to be honest...
Jul 22nd 2014
282
                                                                                 an nba championship team doesn't start haslem and joel anthony at center
Jul 22nd 2014
280
                                                                                 Biyombo didn't get enough meaningful minutes for those stats to matter
Jul 22nd 2014
286
                                                                                 question:
Jul 22nd 2014
288
                                                                                 Lopez would be nice. but he's not "cheap" anymore
Jul 23rd 2014
321
                                                                                 ok i see.
Jul 23rd 2014
352
                                                                                 it's not unreasonable
Jul 23rd 2014
355
                                                                                 it's a challenge i'd gladly welcome.
Jul 23rd 2014
357
                                                                                 Why not? They could get three or four such guys for $ of Hibbert
Jul 23rd 2014
343
                                                                                 playing next to duncan vs. next to love matters, imo
Jul 23rd 2014
351
                                                                                 why were people posting like they didnt have varejao and thompson tho?
Nov 02nd 2014
519
                                    "the best draft prospect in years"?
Jul 18th 2014
212
I wouldn't, their team defense would suffer immensely
Jul 17th 2014
15
This is where I'm at:
Jul 18th 2014
16
RE: I wouldn't, their team defense would suffer immensely
Jul 18th 2014
19
Sure, but they have completely different defensive roles
Jul 18th 2014
22
Exactly, his strengths are already the Cavs strengths
Jul 18th 2014
20
Bro, WTF does Bosh have to do with it?
Jul 18th 2014
68
      The point is you need rim and paint protection
Jul 18th 2014
135
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bsy6BOgIEAAsGA5.jpg
Jul 18th 2014
17
No - and I luls me some K Love but he plays ABSOLUTELY NO defense
Jul 18th 2014
18
So? Is Wiggins going to be their presence inside?
Jul 18th 2014
65
the NO votes are insane to me
Jul 18th 2014
21
I'm saying, WTF, how is this thing still basically even?
Jul 18th 2014
67
I'd at LEAST wait until the trade deadline.
Jul 18th 2014
23
It will HURT the CAVS defensively
Jul 18th 2014
24
Let's look at this from all angles:
Jul 18th 2014
25
i think they can win either way
Jul 18th 2014
26
If that's what it takes then HELL YES & anyone disagreeing is a dumb ass
Jul 18th 2014
27
it really is hard to believe.
Jul 18th 2014
34
U & I'll be back in this post later surveying the wreckage like this one...
Jul 24th 2014
360
RE: If that's what it takes then HELL YES & anyone disagreeing is a dumb...
Jul 18th 2014
46
/post
Jul 18th 2014
92
yes, over and over and over.
Jul 18th 2014
30
Cleveland has to try and win now..
Jul 18th 2014
31
I agree, this is their window
Jul 18th 2014
32
      if they think he won't leave again for a chance to win chips
Jul 18th 2014
33
           and that's the thing, keeping Wiggins even if Lebron leaves you still...
Jul 18th 2014
44
                but they're betting on winning & keeping Bron the rest of his career
Jul 18th 2014
116
What about opportunity cost?
Jul 18th 2014
35
Love's stats likely dropping doesn't matter
Jul 18th 2014
36
meh if lebron really is pushing for this then it's good as done
Jul 18th 2014
37
In all the months building up to the draft
Jul 18th 2014
43
      yea i'm talking about the excitement now
Jul 18th 2014
47
Y'all think Kyrie taking a backseat to Love?
Jul 18th 2014
38
Right, Love is going to be on Chris Bosh 3rd banana status and that's...
Jul 18th 2014
40
      he's more accomplished than kyrie and better offensively than bosh
Jul 18th 2014
41
           "more accomplished" in what regard?
Jul 18th 2014
42
                every?
Jul 18th 2014
45
                     neither one has ever been to the playoffs so neither has accomplished...
Jul 18th 2014
52
                          k
Jul 18th 2014
54
Lol, no brainer. Bird in the hand >>>>
Jul 18th 2014
39
it's 13+ boards, man...and if they throw in dieng...you HAVE to do it
Jul 18th 2014
48
Ok, so would the Cavs be the fav to win it all if they got Love?
Jul 18th 2014
49
whatever. Cavs come out the East.
Jul 18th 2014
51
And they can do that *without* Love lol but even w/Love I don't
Jul 18th 2014
55
lol, Kyrie didn't want to share the ball with Waiters and now he's gotta...
Jul 18th 2014
57
no...WAITERS gonna have to share the ball. Kyrie will be fine.
Jul 18th 2014
66
      I basically agree with you about Kyrie which is why I think Love is goin...
Jul 18th 2014
78
           it's more about his skills than his stats...
Jul 18th 2014
101
                I don't know, playing with 2 penetrators like Lebron and Kryie, Love...
Jul 18th 2014
118
                     he's been perimeter oriented. he's worked on improving range every year
Jul 18th 2014
128
                          right, and his rebounding numbers are going in the opposite direction
Jul 18th 2014
130
                               not really...there's not legit correlation there
Jul 18th 2014
132
nah, they're still behind the Spurs
Jul 18th 2014
59
that's thing, people are acting Love = automatic title when that ain't.....
Jul 18th 2014
73
      i don't think people are acting like that
Jul 18th 2014
80
To win it all? We don't know yet. To win the East? YES.
Jul 18th 2014
62
nah. which undermines the biggest part of the pro-Love argument
Jul 18th 2014
71
      my point exactly, lol
Jul 18th 2014
79
      ^^Egg zacklee.....if they (meaning Bron/front office) think by adding
Jul 18th 2014
81
      rose got locked up by bron when he was an uncut 100%...FOH!
Jul 18th 2014
87
      yeah I think Indy is still a bigger threat even without Stephens...
Jul 18th 2014
91
      ain't nobody scared of rose or the buLLs
Jul 18th 2014
90
      that assumes that Wiggins turns out to be great instead of Larry Hughes
Jul 18th 2014
94
      He will be better than Larry Hughes but the people thinking ...
Jul 21st 2014
258
      lol, how is it not likely to win now?
Jul 18th 2014
170
^^^This I agree with
Jul 18th 2014
53
where is this dieng rumor coming from?
Jul 18th 2014
60
      He's a piece that is in play and has the kind of contract that fits
Jul 18th 2014
70
      cavs pursuing this shit more than the wolves at this point
Jul 18th 2014
75
           rightfully so because the wolves can find another suitor for love wherea...
Jul 18th 2014
142
      I haven't seen him mentioned outside of this board
Jul 18th 2014
82
           its some "only on OKS" shit, lol
Jul 18th 2014
86
           yikes lmao
Jul 18th 2014
88
           it's on twitter, where all the rumors are
Jul 18th 2014
108
Wait they're talking about Dieng too?
Jul 18th 2014
61
      yes...that's why nothing's done. cavs want more for wiggins.
Jul 18th 2014
69
           That changes everything for me. Love PLUS Dieng for Wiggins...
Jul 18th 2014
77
                I agree with this
Jul 18th 2014
83
                Yeah, there's no reason you should give up your best player and...
Jul 18th 2014
115
                the thing is, there's no urgency for Minnesota, they can drag this out.....
Jul 18th 2014
84
                a half season rental vs. full season might hurt his trade value
Jul 18th 2014
93
                     Nobody is going to trade major assets for Love without him signing a new...
Jul 18th 2014
123
                          if he doesn't want to, and they're desperate enough, they will.
Jul 18th 2014
139
                Agreed. He solves a huge need for the Cavs going forward.
Jul 18th 2014
134
                Minny would be really silly to include Dieng
Jul 18th 2014
137
you niggers are acting like wig got a hummer in hs
Jul 18th 2014
56
lol
Jul 18th 2014
58
ha
Jul 18th 2014
95
lol
Jul 18th 2014
147
"the best draft prospect in years", apparently.
Jul 18th 2014
216
dyin.. lol
Jul 21st 2014
246
Why would they have to do this right now?
Jul 18th 2014
74
learn from the Knicks mistakes with Melo...
Jul 18th 2014
76
It's a NO for me. I think Wiggins is the real deal. CLE will regret
Jul 18th 2014
85
But if they win 2 titles in that time before he gets old and retires...
Jul 18th 2014
89
      I'm sayin. People talking 5 years from now as if Lebron is 25
Jul 18th 2014
96
      dude is 30 & Kawhi was eating his lunch the last 3 games of the finals
Jul 18th 2014
121
           And some of that (imo) was fatigue from having to guard Kawhi
Jul 18th 2014
131
                it was the overall load on Bron which at 23 wouldn't have been an issue
Jul 18th 2014
182
      that's thing, most people think that even with Love it won't be enough.....
Jul 18th 2014
97
      Like they thought past prime KG/Ray Allen/Pierce wasn't enough
Jul 18th 2014
99
           lol, KG was still in his prime when he came to Boston, I remember most.....
Jul 18th 2014
105
           Idiot, they said Pierce/KG wasn't enough (sans Ray)
Jul 18th 2014
199
      Do you trade Wiggins for an IF, I guess is what you're asking
Jul 18th 2014
100
           How is Love a ? and Wiggins not?
Jul 18th 2014
102
           RE: How is Love a ? and Wiggins not?
Jul 18th 2014
109
           RE: Do you trade Wiggins for an IF, I guess is what you're asking
Jul 18th 2014
122
                Suprised with all the LAL fans on here that nobody's made the Showtime
Jul 18th 2014
140
                     Remember when the sixers had 3 #1 picks and sucked
Jul 18th 2014
193
                          AI, Chris webber and who else?
Jul 18th 2014
194
                               I think it was Smith, Coleman and AI
Jul 18th 2014
205
If Danny Ainge was Cleveland's GM, Love would already be in Cleveland
Jul 18th 2014
98
oh no doubt ainge living off that 1 chip for a minute
Jul 18th 2014
104
Right, I said in another post Ainge's best move as a GM was actually...
Jul 18th 2014
107
they won a title and went to the finals another time...just stop
Jul 18th 2014
112
could have just said "cosign"
Jul 18th 2014
114
true
Jul 18th 2014
119
      lol
Jul 18th 2014
148
LMFAO
Jul 18th 2014
Uh, they also were within one game of a second title
Jul 21st 2014
257
And yet Danny Ainge is Boston's GM...
Jul 18th 2014
106
lol
Jul 18th 2014
110
right, lol
Jul 18th 2014
111
They haven't been lucky to tank & Danny Ocean the lottery 5 yrs in a row
Jul 18th 2014
120
      But but but but they have Fenway Park and an Ortiz Boston-cosign!
Jul 18th 2014
124
KG was the best defensive player in the game when they won
Jul 18th 2014
144
Of course not but you're putting Love next to THE best player in the gam...
Jul 18th 2014
210
most likely, but i do think this will get done eventually
Jul 18th 2014
171
no...Cavs have all of the leverage.
Jul 18th 2014
103
You HAVE TO roll the dice with Wiggins
Jul 18th 2014
113
no you don't
Jul 18th 2014
117
lol...
Jul 18th 2014
125
Yup and those moves got Bron how many titles?
Jul 18th 2014
133
      RE: Yup and those moves got Bron how many titles?
Jul 18th 2014
151
           He probably won't do a full max extension
Jul 18th 2014
163
                Love's style of play puts a lot of wear and tear on his body, I think he...
Jul 18th 2014
167
RE: cap flexibility
Jul 18th 2014
126
with older versions of mike miller and ray allen of course
Jul 18th 2014
127
      right, both of those dudes were running on fumes last year, lol
Jul 18th 2014
129
That's a lot of wrong packed into a little space. Bravo.
Jul 18th 2014
179
All I know is a Kyrie/Love/Old Guy 2 Guard super ain't stopping anyone
Jul 18th 2014
136
^^^REAL TALK
Jul 18th 2014
152
^^^ keen PEEPOLOGY
Jul 18th 2014
165
I'm not convinced that CLE is necessarily a better situation than
Jul 21st 2014
252
Just read Lamarcus will be a FA at the end of the season as well as
Jul 18th 2014
138
None of those guys will hit the market as UFAs. Not one.
Jul 18th 2014
143
LOL you ain't getting them
Jul 18th 2014
145
here are my thoughts:
Jul 18th 2014
146
It's the Showtime Lakers vs The Miami Heat Show
Jul 18th 2014
149
also, the Heat Big 3 were all better defensively
Jul 18th 2014
155
      yeah Miami's defense was actually built around Wade's shot blocking...
Jul 18th 2014
158
           yea this is why the kyrie+love >>>>>> bosh+wade comments were strange
Jul 18th 2014
161
agreed. pretty obvious imo
Jul 18th 2014
150
All facts.
Jul 18th 2014
166
they will suck on D... gotta get some goons...
Jul 18th 2014
175
Love is basically the no better than Barkley w/ the Rockets (96-97)
Jul 18th 2014
176
      Didnt they go to the conf finals that year b/w Love is much younger
Jul 18th 2014
180
           Keep Wiggins & trade Waiters/Bennett/Tristan for Al Horford
Jul 18th 2014
185
                If that is on the table, sure. Seems speculative at best though.
Jul 18th 2014
186
                     There had been rumblings about Horford to the Cavs around the draft
Jul 18th 2014
195
                          I heard he had been shopped, but lots of players get shopped
Jul 21st 2014
259
Cavs gonna fuck around and end up like the Cavs during Bron's 1st stint
Jul 18th 2014
153
This as well
Jul 18th 2014
157
fair points, but let's not equate Larry Hughes to K. Love
Jul 18th 2014
219
None of those players were even remotely in the universe of Kevin Love
Jul 19th 2014
229
How long a deal would Love sign?
Jul 18th 2014
154
I don't think he'll play the 1 or 2 year game like Lebron, I think he...
Jul 18th 2014
160
      Just kinda funny to me, cuz if Bron does bounce
Jul 18th 2014
162
           Bron ain't bouncing, he's just doing opt-outs for the next five years
Jul 22nd 2014
263
Is there a plan B?
Jul 18th 2014
156
Would you give a 32 year-old Lebron a $200+mil contract? (swipe)
Jul 18th 2014
164
damn so the he's not going anywhere he's just waiting for the new tv
Jul 18th 2014
168
      Him leaving again would be such a PR disaster though
Jul 18th 2014
172
      and it could definitely happen.
Jul 18th 2014
174
      He blows out his knee in the next 2 seasons and he's done
Jul 18th 2014
196
           That's true of any contract for any player at any age. So, moot.
Jul 21st 2014
244
Minny AP writer: neither Wiggins nor Klay have yet been offered for Love...
Jul 18th 2014
169
seems reasonable to me, doesnt really support either side of argument
Jul 18th 2014
173
      I'm feeling over arguing about it. I just want it to happen.
Jul 18th 2014
178
           yeah i mean i dont think there is any urgency for either team
Jul 18th 2014
188
ProBBallDraft reporting the Wolves are content to wait.
Jul 18th 2014
181
man cavs bout to give up wiggins, dion, bennett and some 1sts
Jul 18th 2014
183
There are also reports they want Klay more than Wiggins.
Jul 18th 2014
184
      That makes sense, I mean Klay is a pretty nasty player
Jul 18th 2014
187
      back up. let's not try being friends on klay, fence-sitter.
Jul 18th 2014
192
           eat a dick, thanks
Jul 20th 2014
237
      shit, I'd take Klay on the Cavs
Jul 18th 2014
223
it's chicken and the wolves are pretty sure they're going to crash regar...
Jul 18th 2014
189
like I said, they have until the trade deadline, no urgency for them...
Jul 18th 2014
190
      Could hurt minny though
Jul 18th 2014
198
           as long as Love is healthy, putting up numbers and white, there will be....
Jul 18th 2014
200
Now ESPN....
Jul 18th 2014
197
espn.....or chris broussard?
Jul 18th 2014
201
RE: espn.....or chris broussard?
Jul 18th 2014
202
Isn't Bennett basically supposed to be K-Love lite?
Jul 18th 2014
203
Nah, he was supposed to be "Better than LJ EVER was!"
Jul 18th 2014
206
      Oh yeah, that too, lol
Jul 18th 2014
209
I'd do it*
Jul 18th 2014
207
NO ONE WANTS TO PLAY IN CLEVELAND INCLUDING KLOVE.
Jul 18th 2014
208
      lol if the reason you dont want Love is because you want to run
Jul 18th 2014
211
      I don't want him because he'll cost too much and is a bad teammate
Jul 18th 2014
215
      the cap is an interesting point.
Jul 18th 2014
213
      Worry about that when the time comes.
Jul 20th 2014
236
      LOL, running teams love guys like Love and Duncan you dunce
Jul 20th 2014
234
           This guy just can't help him self.
Jul 21st 2014
254
           I'm always right....
Jul 21st 2014
261
           Duncan plays defense therefore your point is moot.
Jul 21st 2014
260
                the part that gets the break going is defensive rebounding
Jul 22nd 2014
273
I kinda liked the idea of Lebron mentoring those young guys...
Jul 19th 2014
227
my two cents
Jul 20th 2014
230
could work if he hadn't already signed with adidas, sony, etc.
Jul 20th 2014
231
i'd offer them an
Jul 20th 2014
232
      Nothing smarter than asking major sponsors to drop you!
Jul 21st 2014
249
      you are a fool. bye.
Jul 23rd 2014
297
you sound hurt. he will play it smarter than that
Jul 20th 2014
235
RE: you sound hurt. he will play it smarter than that
Jul 20th 2014
238
      he holds no cards and would look really bad doing that as a rookie.
Jul 20th 2014
241
Everything after the first sentence is LOUD AND WRONG.
Jul 20th 2014
240
exactly he
Jul 20th 2014
243
I remember a couple of years ago OKS was hyping an article about...
Jul 21st 2014
245
      IMO that shit is dead, no one has made it work yet
Jul 23rd 2014
344
It's basically instant gratification vs. gambling for long term success
Jul 21st 2014
247
RE: Should Cleveland trade Wiggins for Love?
Jul 21st 2014
248
Bulls making a strong push by offering Taj and Jimmy Butler
Jul 22nd 2014
264
They are making a push.
Jul 22nd 2014
265
It's better than the 'monster push' tag placed on the Lakers
Jul 22nd 2014
266
      Haha
Jul 22nd 2014
271
On what planet is that a better offer?
Jul 22nd 2014
268
casm.
Jul 22nd 2014
269
Because.
Jul 22nd 2014
270
*Breaks this down*
Jul 22nd 2014
274
      nobody want Jimmy Butler Mobile, AL mechanic YMCA game ass
Jul 22nd 2014
285
           *sips tea*
Dec 30th 2014
527
This Taj cyse is reaching Tyrusian levels
Jul 22nd 2014
284
At least Tyrus was a top pick.
Jul 23rd 2014
292
And he 30.
Jul 23rd 2014
300
RE: This Taj cyse is reaching Tyrusian levels
Jul 23rd 2014
309
Taj is 30. He ain't no fuckin kid, Murph .
Jul 23rd 2014
324
      RE: Taj is 30. He ain't no fuckin kid, Murph .
Jul 23rd 2014
340
           no one wants taj but y'all.
Jul 23rd 2014
358
                RE: no one wants taj but y'all.
Jul 24th 2014
363
                     6th man of the year FINALIST?
Jul 24th 2014
367
Dawg, it might be the craziest Bull Fan distortion of reality yet
Jul 24th 2014
361
      If only it was that simple....
Jul 24th 2014
362
      you keep repeating this:
Jul 24th 2014
366
      That package, quite simply, is garbage not worthy of a legit KLove trade
Jul 27th 2014
370
           RE: That package, quite simply, is garbage not worthy of a legit KLove t...
Jul 28th 2014
371
      I'm starting to think every fanbase has a player they overcyse
Jul 24th 2014
368
           Bulls Fans seem to have four or five annually tho
Jul 27th 2014
369
Bulls making the smart move, forcing CLE to give up more
Jul 23rd 2014
290
can we just talk re: the "value" of defensive boards?
Jul 22nd 2014
281
PREACH ON, PREACHER!! (/>_<)/
Jul 22nd 2014
283
That sums it up.
Jul 22nd 2014
289
Not a soul will argue the D improves with Love instead of Wiggins.
Jul 23rd 2014
291
That's the thing, Love isn't a great offensive player, he's a good...
Jul 23rd 2014
305
^^^REAL TALK
Jul 23rd 2014
303
The TWolves have basically been an average DRebounding team w/Love
Jul 23rd 2014
319
The Pistons werent tops w/Ben Wallace, but then they got Rasheed
Jul 23rd 2014
349
      the argument is personal rebound #s tell you very little about reboundin...
Jul 23rd 2014
354
Nice dissertation, I just have one question ...
Jul 23rd 2014
347
Nice dissertation, I just have one question ...
Jul 23rd 2014
348
      Love's rebs have offensive impact, totally unclear re: extra possessions
Jul 23rd 2014
356
What if this was a 25 year old Dirk?
Jul 23rd 2014
293
dirk had been to the playoffs many times
Jul 23rd 2014
294
So? He also had two all-stars and depth on his team
Jul 23rd 2014
296
      like i said, it's an open question. seems like dirk wouldn't have NEVER
Jul 23rd 2014
342
           with pekovic and ricky rubio? in this west?
Jul 23rd 2014
346
                not once? dirk go from every year second round+ to never?
Jul 23rd 2014
350
when Dirk was 25 the #1 overall pick in the draft was Lebron James...
Jul 23rd 2014
308
To be fair, Dirk + Duncan would be fun as hell to watch
Jul 23rd 2014
313
Andrew Wiggins is not in the same universe as a prospect
Jul 23rd 2014
333
      and Dirk is a much better player than Love, and while people though...
Jul 23rd 2014
341
           LOL, what? LeBron was the most touted prospect in a long time
Jul 23rd 2014
345
Prime Dirk was a far better player than Love
Jul 23rd 2014
317
      I don't know, if you were rating them out of 100, what would "far" be?
Jul 23rd 2014
335
This is the longest drawn out trade shit ever. Bulls new offer
Jul 23rd 2014
298
Dumb trade for the Bulls.
Jul 23rd 2014
299
yep
Jul 23rd 2014
301
Smh....Yep. And Donte just got arrested during his comeback too.
Jul 23rd 2014
302
RE: Dumb trade for the Bulls.
Jul 23rd 2014
311
McBuckets, Mirotic, and Butler might be their best possible offer.
Jul 23rd 2014
304
And I think Minny would like to have a potential white star coming back....
Jul 23rd 2014
306
I don't believe this to be a genuine offer
Jul 23rd 2014
307
If the Bulls hesitated to give up Taj for Melo...
Jul 23rd 2014
310
It's not about giving up Taj for Melo.
Jul 23rd 2014
312
RE: If the Bulls hesitated to give up Taj for Melo...
Jul 23rd 2014
315
they were willing to give him up, but they didn't want to
Jul 23rd 2014
316
      RE: they were willing to give him up, but they didn't want to
Jul 23rd 2014
318
I agree.
Jul 23rd 2014
314
that would be some Bulls(hit).
Jul 23rd 2014
330
MURPH PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT--TRUST THE KNOWABLE
Jul 23rd 2014
320
We screamed for shooters last season...
Jul 23rd 2014
322
NONE OF THIS MATTERS BECEUSE NONE OF ITS HAPPENING
Jul 23rd 2014
323
RE: NONE OF THIS MATTERS BECEUSE NONE OF ITS HAPPENING
Jul 23rd 2014
328
RE: We screamed for shooters last season...
Jul 23rd 2014
325
cavs may very well have depth, too, they definitely have shooting
Nov 02nd 2014
520
Sources: Its done will be announced tomorrow to Cavs
Jul 23rd 2014
326
RE: Sources: Its done will be announced tomorrow to Cavs
Jul 23rd 2014
329
Your sources more reliable than RJC27's?
Jul 23rd 2014
331
Dion, Tristan, and two first roud picks???
Jul 23rd 2014
332
      If Minnesota makes that bullshit deal, they are dead to me
Jul 23rd 2014
334
      RE: Dion, Tristan, and two first roud picks???
Jul 23rd 2014
336
      Yeah no
Jul 23rd 2014
338
      The word leaked that Wiggy was signing-- but i dont think it was
Jul 23rd 2014
339
      If the deal goes through without Wiggins...
Jul 23rd 2014
353
           this board is going to look like The Towering Inferno if that happens.
Jul 23rd 2014
359
           RE: this board is going to look like The Towering Inferno if that happen...
Jul 24th 2014
365
           You? Never
Jul 24th 2014
364
           and if it doesn't?
Jul 28th 2014
372
Eric Bledsoe's Long, Hot, Restricted Summer (via Lowe)
Jul 23rd 2014
327
I want to see Monroe leave Detroit
Jul 23rd 2014
337
      I wish Portland would grabbed Monroe instead of Kaman...
Aug 04th 2014
379
starting to sound like this deal is basically done
Jul 31st 2014
373
Jonah Hill Windhorst reporting that a "handshake deal" has been made.
Aug 04th 2014
374
He also reported that the Cavs were gonna offer Gordan Hayward the max
Aug 04th 2014
375
WORST TRADE IN LEAGUE HISTORY
Aug 04th 2014
376
Will you still ride for AB if he's in Philly?
Aug 04th 2014
377
Me? I was never a huge AB guy.
Aug 04th 2014
381
they should ship waiters to philly
Aug 04th 2014
378
Dion called himself Lebron's new D-Wade.
Aug 04th 2014
380
      you keep saying this. but the signs are pointing to bron wanting him
Aug 05th 2014
395
      If he's happy to take fewer shots and commit on defense...
Aug 05th 2014
415
           Kyrie needs to do the same 2 things
Aug 05th 2014
509
      did he really? Or are you talking about this?
Aug 05th 2014
490
Sixers win. Wolves make out okay. Cavs lose.
Aug 04th 2014
382
      Shit, Wolves win BIG.
Aug 04th 2014
383
      But I'm sure at some point they thought they'd get more for Love.
Aug 04th 2014
384
      i doubt it. they didn't even have a trade plan. they're lucky if it happ...
Aug 04th 2014
385
      agree... Thad and Pekovic keeps that frontcourt nice too on the glass
Aug 05th 2014
389
      I'll see what draft picks come in/leave before judging
Aug 05th 2014
391
      Lmao, you such a pressed college fan
Aug 05th 2014
386
           pressed college fan
Aug 05th 2014
387
           Wait....what does college have to do with this now?
Aug 05th 2014
388
                only a college fan
Aug 05th 2014
390
                     Lol...I'm not watching Kansas or UNLV. I have zero horses in this.
Aug 05th 2014
392
                          this right here is what i mean
Aug 05th 2014
393
                          People are in love with potential
Aug 05th 2014
396
                          See, I'm saying the trade is short sighted & your response is...
Aug 05th 2014
398
                          They wont even contend for the ECF
Aug 05th 2014
400
                          Who said that?
Aug 05th 2014
401
                               I missed the season she was on
Aug 05th 2014
407
                                    I just watched it last week on Hulu. I'm watching all the seasons.
Aug 05th 2014
419
                          they're winning the East easy, then it depends on the matchup
Aug 05th 2014
402
                               Okay, I have you down for "winning the East easy"
Aug 05th 2014
403
                               Because I am not scared of numbers
Aug 05th 2014
404
                                    No, you're confused. Nobody is questioning Bron. The other pieces, yes.
Aug 05th 2014
405
                                         we'll see
Aug 05th 2014
412
                               RE: they're winning the East easy
Aug 05th 2014
437
                          The East is not as strong due to injury/player movement.
Aug 05th 2014
423
                               yeah, you just want to back into an ECF title to save Rose's legacy
Aug 05th 2014
450
                                    lol @ the concept of "backing into an ecf" coming from a bron stan
Aug 05th 2014
452
                                         you mean the guy who's won 5 conference titles and 2 rings?
Aug 05th 2014
454
                                              you didn't address my point.
Aug 05th 2014
461
                          as a basketball fan i like the prospects of this WAY better
Aug 05th 2014
397
                               Exactly. If those guys get to where their natural talent can get them...
Aug 05th 2014
399
                               That's The Issue Though
Aug 05th 2014
408
                               You think Bron wants to take Wiggins under his wing?
Aug 05th 2014
410
                               Nope so the paragraph in The Letter about grooming young talent
Aug 05th 2014
413
                               That's Your boy!
Aug 05th 2014
414
                                    plea cop what?
Aug 05th 2014
417
                                         Wiggins said in the ESPN interview he hasn't heard from him.
Aug 05th 2014
422
                                              yet bron reached out to kevin love and is tweeting all crazy
Aug 05th 2014
426
                                                   Yep, it is a complete Lebron move. And I'm not down with...
Aug 05th 2014
432
                               I would think Bron is bigger than that & has enough ego to not be...
Aug 05th 2014
420
                                    LOL @ Bron being threatened by Wiggins
Aug 05th 2014
463
                                         That's what Shawn suggested.
Aug 05th 2014
488
                                              I'm a Sixers fan, by time Wiggins comes into his own, Twin Towers here
Aug 05th 2014
494
                                                   Nah, I'm still good with saying they won't make the ECF *shrugs*
Aug 05th 2014
498
                                                   okay. How bout a wager with u taking the field on Cavs in Final?
Aug 05th 2014
499
                                                        I don't wager. Me saying it is enough for me.
Aug 05th 2014
500
                                                             Good thing for that. You'd be broke with these type of prognostications
Aug 06th 2014
511
                                                   Twin Hype
Aug 06th 2014
512
                               RE: Exactly. If those guys get to where their natural talent can get the...
Aug 05th 2014
424
                               As a guy who doesn't want title expectations on Lebron, you like it
Aug 05th 2014
411
                                    he won 2 already. you and cenerio and all the other idiots who hated
Aug 05th 2014
428
Not for nothing, but right today the following are UFAs in 2015:
Aug 05th 2014
394
Rondo is a UFA in 2015 too
Aug 05th 2014
427
      True, I was just posting up the bigs
Aug 05th 2014
443
Fair trade. Love will still average 20 and 10.
Aug 05th 2014
406
RE: Fair trade. Love will still average 20 and 10.
Aug 05th 2014
418
I can't wait to see Love get EXPOSED for the fraud he is, he's...
Aug 05th 2014
416
RE: I can't wait to see Love get EXPOSED for the fraud he is, he's...
Aug 05th 2014
421
when he's not volume scoring I don't think he has the same value as...
Aug 05th 2014
425
      if Love is a 3rd banana like bosh was then that's a L for new Love stans
Aug 05th 2014
431
      RE: if Love is a 3rd banana like bosh was then that's a L for new Love s...
Aug 05th 2014
435
           of course not
Aug 05th 2014
438
                RE: of course not
Aug 05th 2014
444
      RE: when he's not volume scoring I don't think he has the same value as....
Aug 05th 2014
439
           lmao the NBA is basically soap operas now
Aug 05th 2014
440
           Kevin Love doesn't care about stats? okayplayer.
Aug 05th 2014
442
                RE: Kevin Love doesn't care about stats? okayplayer.
Aug 05th 2014
448
                     we're talking about a guy who routinely boxes out his own teammates...
Aug 05th 2014
455
                          RE: we're talking about a guy who routinely boxes out his own teammates....
Aug 05th 2014
471
I think the opposite is about to happen
Aug 05th 2014
429
this is true of both love and kyrie imo. if cavs don't win it shouldn't
Aug 05th 2014
430
How is Kyrie is a top 5 point guard???
Aug 05th 2014
433
What 5 point guards are better than Kyrie RIGHT TODAY?
Aug 05th 2014
436
I'm asking you the question.
Aug 05th 2014
441
At this point I think CP, Curry and Westbrook are clearly top 3, after.....
Aug 05th 2014
445
i think most ppl rating kyrie are talking out of their ass
Aug 05th 2014
446
      same way everybody's a kevin love expert...
Aug 05th 2014
449
           You guys are right, well we get see plenty of them this year, I'm sure.....
Aug 05th 2014
456
                juggled? cavs getting opening day and a christmas slot lol
Aug 05th 2014
458
                     speakin of ant davis. i'm on that this year. playoffs or else.
Aug 05th 2014
459
                          If they can stay healthy the Hornets should definitely be in the playoff...
Aug 05th 2014
462
                          naw he in the western conference
Aug 05th 2014
464
                          playoffs...he supposedly a top 10 player already. that's playoffs to me....
Aug 05th 2014
466
                          2 points
Aug 05th 2014
465
                          damn forgot about this
Aug 05th 2014
467
                          should be 50...he top 10...and jrue an all-star....should be 55
Aug 05th 2014
469
                          Jrue was a two season-ending injuries and playing in the East All-Star
Aug 06th 2014
513
                               This was and still is such a massive plea cop.
Aug 06th 2014
516
                                    just seeing this now so apologies for pummeling belatedly:
Nov 06th 2014
523
                          yeah they finna have that paint on clack-clack.
Aug 05th 2014
475
                          *being unreasonable and acting stupid when confronting with legit facts*
Aug 05th 2014
468
                               lolz
Aug 05th 2014
476
                          How is he getting a pass? He's been in the league two whole years.
Aug 05th 2014
470
                          same shit i said about kyrie last summer, after his SECOND season
Aug 05th 2014
473
                               Meh. Don't let other's reaction to Kyrie cloud your perspective on AD
Aug 05th 2014
477
                                    i think AD a superstar...my judgement of him not clouded at all.
Aug 05th 2014
478
                                    HE set that bar. Read my sig.
Aug 05th 2014
492
                                         man I just don't think I have the energy for this lol
Aug 05th 2014
493
                                         Too bad I ain't make sigs for Tyrus and Ben Wallace cysage
Aug 05th 2014
495
                          http://i.imgur.com/lrlYV13.gif
Aug 05th 2014
472
                          just playin the game, dogg.
Aug 05th 2014
474
                               Whatever makes it interesting for u bruh.
Aug 05th 2014
480
                          why everybody scared? that's a fair standard and he gonna do it
Aug 05th 2014
481
                               Right.
Aug 05th 2014
485
                               Shit even I agree.
Aug 05th 2014
491
I'd think the most nba analysts would have this top 5 I'd bet
Aug 05th 2014
453
      you can't put Rose back in the top 5 based off of a handful of practices...
Aug 05th 2014
460
           RE: you can't put Rose back in the top 5 based off of a handful of pract...
Aug 05th 2014
479
           you're a fucking genius.
Aug 05th 2014
482
           even still, then Rondo then moves into the top 5
Aug 05th 2014
486
                He's basically in the same boat with Rose, if you miss over half your...
Aug 05th 2014
496
                     Is that directly from the hypothetical OKS rankings rulebook?
Aug 05th 2014
505
                          Exactly.
Aug 06th 2014
514
Kyrie is definitely NOT a top 5 point guard.
Aug 05th 2014
489
      This is a good list.
Aug 05th 2014
501
      RE: This is a good list.
Aug 05th 2014
502
           this the type shit that's said on the humble and never revisited
Aug 05th 2014
503
                RE: this the type shit that's said on the humble and never revisited
Aug 05th 2014
504
                the kings wouldn't even pick thomas....like 3 times.
Aug 05th 2014
507
                http://tinyurl.com/nyqhs92
Aug 05th 2014
508
      Isiaah Thomas is not better
Aug 05th 2014
506
      that list is some bullshit, lol...
Aug 06th 2014
515
Haven't you already "exposed him as a fraud" like 30 times?
Aug 05th 2014
434
alright so
Aug 05th 2014
447
      you know the game he's playing.
Aug 05th 2014
451
      Lebron won 66 games with Big Z and Mo Williams, doing the same...
Aug 05th 2014
457
           RE: Lebron won 66 games with Big Z and Mo Williams, doing the same...
Aug 05th 2014
483
           My position on him hasn't changed, he's not a star, he's been a stat...
Aug 05th 2014
484
                I still think Love gets a bad rap as if he's been starring since day 1
Aug 05th 2014
487
                RE: My position on him hasn't changed, he's not a star, he's been a stat...
Aug 05th 2014
497
           he's getting that 20 and 13
Aug 05th 2014
510
                He was putting up 25/15 & not sniffing the post-season
Nov 02nd 2014
521
look at these niggas who don't know shit about basketball
Nov 02nd 2014
517
Love playing like Carlos Boozer in a Cavs uniform...winning!
Nov 02nd 2014
518
tonight: Big Love - 2 for 8, 14pts, Big Wig - 7 for 12, 17pts, #IJS
Nov 06th 2014
522
Wig BETTER.
Dec 30th 2014
524
Hell he doesn't even need to be BETTER
Dec 30th 2014
525
youre acting like guys cant be taught defense
Dec 30th 2014
526
      Love lacks both willingness and ability at that end though
Dec 30th 2014
529
           ^^^
Dec 31st 2014
530
Bosh BETTER
Dec 30th 2014
528
weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!
Jun 17th 2015
531

ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71313 posts
Thu Jul-17-14 10:14 PM

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1. "What do you want out of a number one pick?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Ideally you want a player who will produce at a high level and be an important part of your team for multiple seasons, like five or more.

They are getting that in Love and they have to spend ZERO time developing him.

That wouldn't necessarily be the ideal thing for every time, but for a team that has LeBron on what is effectively a one-year contract but has the opportunity to have him for the rest of his career? Yes, you want that, you get that.

There is also the scarcity of opportunity. How many times does an all-star hit the market at 25? Very infrequently. I can't think of any examples under the last two CBAs (there were some guys who became all-stars, but not established ones).

The bottom line is this, if they acquire Love they are a more competitive team immediately. They have the opportunity have both him and LeBron for the rest of their prime. If they gamble and this group does not success, LeBron could opt out next summer and bail. So you could either have LeBron and Love for their entire primes or you could have neither and be back at square one within a year.

Not only do I think they should trade Wiggins--who I think will be an excellent pro--I would trade another asset with him to get it done. Bennett, Waiters, Thompson ... these are not irreplaceable talents. They have to get this done, but it's going to be a protracted thing. Minnesota also has to get it done because Wiggins is the best player they are going to get for Love. But neither side can be too eager, or they will lose the battle for peripheral assets.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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gmltheone
Member since Jun 11th 2003
8564 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 10:55 AM

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409. "Another rumor..nothing official. "
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

Yup.
----------------------------
Same as it ever was!

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71313 posts
Thu Jul-17-14 10:14 PM

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2. "What do you want out of a number one pick?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Ideally you want a player who will produce at a high level and be an important part of your team for multiple seasons, like five or more.

They are getting that in Love and they have to spend ZERO time developing him.

That wouldn't necessarily be the ideal thing for every time, but for a team that has LeBron on what is effectively a one-year contract but has the opportunity to have him for the rest of his career? Yes, you want that, you get that.

There is also the scarcity of opportunity. How many times does an all-star hit the market at 25? Very infrequently. I can't think of any examples under the last two CBAs (there were some guys who became all-stars, but not established ones).

The bottom line is this, if they acquire Love they are a more competitive team immediately. They have the opportunity have both him and LeBron for the rest of their prime. If they gamble and this group does not success, LeBron could opt out next summer and bail. So you could either have LeBron and Love for their entire primes or you could have neither and be back at square one within a year.

Not only do I think they should trade Wiggins--who I think will be an excellent pro--I would trade another asset with him to get it done. Bennett, Waiters, Thompson ... these are not irreplaceable talents. They have to get this done, but it's going to be a protracted thing. Minnesota also has to get it done because Wiggins is the best player they are going to get for Love. But neither side can be too eager, or they will lose the battle for peripheral assets.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
21925 posts
Thu Jul-17-14 10:28 PM

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3. "not sure how any of this is even debatable."
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

for the ppl voting no: if there was a player in this past draft that you knew for a fact would eventually be as good as kevin love is right today, you're telling me you wouldn't take him first?

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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ThaTruth
Charter member
91220 posts
Thu Jul-17-14 10:41 PM

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5. "I guess it comes down to how good you actually think Kevin Love is..."
In response to Reply # 3


          

and how good you think Wiggins will be and how long it will take him to get there.

For some people Love is just a guy putting up empty stats on a bad team. In limited samples of him playing with other talented players on Team USA and in All-Star games he hasn't really stood out and sometimes has even looked out of place.

In general a volume scoring power forward is not a part of a traditional recipe for winning.

Then on the other side you have Wiggins, how often has a legit #1 overall talent landed on a team where he doesn't have to be a savior but is actually playing with best player in the world AND one of the top point guard talents in the NBA?

Can you imagine Kyrie running the break with Lebron and Wiggins on the wings and how frightening that would be?

Or Lebron and Wig on the defensive end?

________________________________________
Watch For The Hook
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy9Fun9CuZ4

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71313 posts
Thu Jul-17-14 11:13 PM

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10. "You need Wiggins to be good inside of one year, two max"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

I am a big fan of his and think he will be an excellent player. But you have to give to get. You're trading a wing for a big, a prospect for a player in his prime and it all fits your current situation. Like I said, both teams HAVE to make this deal. Minnesota is going to lose Love but here they get actual fair return, Cleveland needs a star in his prime.

Does Love give them a guy to protect the rim? LOL, no, but neither do any of the players mentioned. They have the best defender in the league in LeBron, who can play almost any role at that end. Sideshow Bob and some other role player can grind and hack. Meanwhile Love gives them a third consistent 20 PPG producer, an inside weapon that's also an outside weapon, a very good rebounder and a guy who can get the break going. Is he tailor made for them? No. Is he by far the best player they can get today and, honestly, into the foreseeable future? There is no question, even taking the lowest opinion of him that exists (yours).

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71313 posts
Thu Jul-17-14 11:15 PM

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11. "Not "eventually" even, how about "immediately?""
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

That, to me, is the key. Talent for talent, whatever, Wiggins may turn out to be as good. But it will take a few years for him to reach his peak. Love is there now. So, a better way of putting would be that if there were an automatic, instant 20/9 player in this year's draft, would he have been taken above Wiggins? Of course.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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Bombastic
Charter member
88861 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 03:00 AM

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29. "Maybe not if I had a guarantee Hans stays healthy but anyone else, sure"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

Allow me to rant for what I hope will be the last time on this subject:

You're Cleveland.

You won the NBA lottery 4 times in the last 9 years and you ain't been to the Finals since the Bush Administration.

You won the geographic lottery with Lebron James.

TWICE.

Do NOT fuck this up again trying to play fortune telling scout genie.

Be grateful for the bird in your hand and don't give away opportunities to add a ring to it by reaching for the bush.

This isn't an LBJ, Duncan, Shaq type of #1 pick.

Wiggins has yet to play a minute of NBA Basketball & was a bad draft-week X-Ray away from going 3rd to Philly.

Would I love to have him as a building block on a young developing team?

Sure.

More than I'd like to have Kevin Love play with Lebron James and be the definitive odds-on favorite to win a ring each of the next two seasons?

Fuck No.

And again, I really like Andrew Wiggins more than most others I know.

They can bluff for a bit, maybe grind down the additional player details to their advantage but bottom line is Flip has gotta get Wiggins in that deal or even David Kahn will be publicly clowning him.

You already have seen offers better than any other combo of young talent you got.

It's cute to think you can give them a couple of mid-to-late firsts, cyse Bennet's summer league svelte figure or Dion's empty scoring totals from last year but eventually you wake up and say 'wait, why am I trying to get cute about this shit?!?'

You take the Top 3 PF to give you two Top 20 players to pair with Lebron James.

A man who left your franchise once and watched you lose 47 more games plus set the record for consecutive defeats the following season.

The guy who has been to the last four finals while you have averaged 23 wins in his absence.

Dude who already declared two years ago what a dream it would be to play with Kevin Love while they were winning Gold Medals for a country full of goofy, overthinking, talking just to talk muggfuggas still applauding for a soccer team winning one out of four games this summer.

A generation deep of draft geeks out here making a mockery of basic logic on this issue.

Kevin Love is actually really good, fellas.

Better than Bosh ever was and that turned out okay.

The agenda-deranged can move the 'no playoff' mantra over to accusing them of being Bron byproducts next year if need be.

  

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ShawndmeSlanted
Member since Oct 30th 2004
42601 posts
Thu Jul-17-14 10:38 PM

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4. "Let's change this to what does Kevin love bring focus on +"
In response to Reply # 0
Thu Jul-17-14 10:40 PM by ShawndmeSlanted

  

          

like Frankie says


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3n8ks-l-r8

1) Outlet passing. Lebron and Kyrie leaking out after rebounds. Game over.
2) Interior passing from the low post/midpost
3) Shooting and ability to spread the floor either via spot up or pick and roll pick and pop situations
4) Ability to finish garbage shots inside
5 great hands


Who else is putting up these 40 and 19 games?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZhxwzfwMpk

42 and 16
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nr-jkjr9Jk

31 and 31
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOvr3G5mpzI



Defensively hes obviously below average. Even when he moves his feet, hes short and has 0 lift so guys just elevate over him. Lets be honest though, how many NBA teams right today run an ISO for their 4 play after play. The post up Iso is dead. Which 4s in the east are gonna shit on Kevin Love? Chris Bosh?


I keep hearing this wait wait approach. Lebron doesnt want to wait. For all we know he plays 3-5 more years and then just retires. He aint leaving Cle again no matter what.

Cap flexibility is the major thing I see, but Cle has shown by going out to get Mike Miller and james Jones that theyre comfy sorrounding Bron with old guys. Theyre going all in here. Ray Allen next.

Kyrie is gonna be the future when Brons done.

---
"though time has passed, im still the future" (c) black thought

  

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ThaTruth
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Thu Jul-17-14 10:51 PM

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6. "RE: Let's change this to what does Kevin love bring focus on +"
In response to Reply # 4


          


>Who else is putting up these 40 and 19 games?
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZhxwzfwMpk
>
>42 and 16
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nr-jkjr9Jk
>
>31 and 31
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOvr3G5mpzI

Like I said above, Love's not going to have many 30 and 40 point games playing with Lebron and Kyrie like he did in Minny when he was the #1 option.

>
>Defensively hes obviously below average. Even when he moves
>his feet, hes short and has 0 lift so guys just elevate over
>him. Lets be honest though, how many NBA teams right today run
>an ISO for their 4 play after play. The post up Iso is dead.
>Which 4s in the east are gonna shit on Kevin Love? Chris
>Bosh?

It's not about ISO's, basketball is a team game even on the defensive end at least for good teams. Post players are expect to be able to provide help when they're perimeter guys get beat. All Love is concerned about is getting in position for the rebound. It's tough to hide a defensive liability in the front court. Carlisle managed to do it for one season when he had a DPOY guy at center and it's not like those guys grow on trees.

________________________________________
Watch For The Hook
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy9Fun9CuZ4

  

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ShawndmeSlanted
Member since Oct 30th 2004
42601 posts
Thu Jul-17-14 10:53 PM

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8. "he doesnt have to"
In response to Reply # 6
Thu Jul-17-14 10:56 PM by ShawndmeSlanted

  

          

The point is he's one of the few guys in the league who has the potential to even have that kinda game. Then we havent even talked about his offensive rebounding.

Your theory is he only gets this many rebounds because his defense? Hes just a poor defender.

Youre the one in the other post crying conspiracy if Cle got him and kept wiggins. Why cry if he sucks so bad.


>>Who else is putting up these 40 and 19 games?
>>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZhxwzfwMpk
>>
>>42 and 16
>>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nr-jkjr9Jk
>>
>>31 and 31
>>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOvr3G5mpzI
>
>Like I said above, Love's not going to have many 30 and 40
>point games playing with Lebron and Kyrie like he did in Minny
>when he was the #1 option.
>
>>
>>Defensively hes obviously below average. Even when he moves
>>his feet, hes short and has 0 lift so guys just elevate over
>>him. Lets be honest though, how many NBA teams right today
>run
>>an ISO for their 4 play after play. The post up Iso is dead.
>>Which 4s in the east are gonna shit on Kevin Love? Chris
>>Bosh?
>
>It's not about ISO's, basketball is a team game even on the
>defensive end at least for good teams. Post players are expect
>to be able to provide help when they're perimeter guys get
>beat. All Love is concerned about is getting in position for
>the rebound. It's tough to hide a defensive liability in the
>front court. Carlisle managed to do it for one season when he
>had a DPOY guy at center and it's not like those guys grow on
>trees.
>

---
"though time has passed, im still the future" (c) black thought

  

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ThaTruth
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Fri Jul-18-14 01:50 AM

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28. "RE: he doesnt have to"
In response to Reply # 8


          

>The point is he's one of the few guys in the league who has
>the potential to even have that kinda game. Then we havent
>even talked about his offensive rebounding.
>
>Your theory is he only gets this many rebounds because his
>defense? Hes just a poor defender.
>
>Youre the one in the other post crying conspiracy if Cle got
>him and kept wiggins. Why cry if he sucks so bad.

I'm not crying about anything but if they get Love for Bennett and some picks it's definitely suspect

________________________________________
Watch For The Hook
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy9Fun9CuZ4

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Thu Jul-17-14 11:34 PM

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14. "This is actually a good point:"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          


>Which 4s in the east are gonna shit on Kevin Love? Chris
>Bosh?

The Eastern Conference lineup helps. Though they will need someone to help when the guards blow by Kyrie and Dion (hopefully Brewer comes over).

Disagree about him finishing inside though-- isn't he statistically down at the bottom of the bigs for finishes at the rim? I thought I read that. It's certainly not where he does the majority of his damage anyhow.

Not that his ability inside is remotely a deal maker or deal breaker. But yknow. Just saying.

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71313 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 09:17 AM

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63. "IMO that is a misleading stat though"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

The eye test says he can do damage with paint catches. He does take a lot of threes and float a bit, but if they wanted him to play like Boozer did early on for the Jazz, you don't think he could get paint catches and finish? Please, he's got good hands, a big body and a soft touch.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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MothershipConnection
Member since Nov 22nd 2003
7498 posts
Thu Jul-17-14 10:53 PM

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7. "Why not play it out a month or two into the season?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I don't really see how the TWolves are going to get a better offer than Wiggins (and possibly another player) from another team in the near future.

Secondly, I think Wiggins will be a perfect complement to Lebron going forward. Lebron's going to start slowing down at some point, and he'll see someone else to chase around tough perimeter matchups and lock em up, and you know Kyrie won't be the one to do it. Plus, he's cost controlled for the next 4 years or so, which is past the current CBA. Look how big of an advantage San Antonio had by having Leonard blow up while still on his rookie contract, letting them pay star guys like Duncan/Parker/Manu AND get depth.

Miami's run ended prematurely because within 4 years, Bosh and Wade (especially) were not worth max contracts, and they had zero flexibility to get anyone besides old guys on their last legs and late 1st round rookies to fill out the roster. Not that Bron/Kyrie/Love will not be worth the max in 3-4 years, and the CBA will probably be blown up by then, but if they keep some cap flexibility, who's to say they can't get a good player next summer as well?

My big concern for these Cavs would actually be rim protection. Varejao is a great interior defender, but a good bet to miss half a season, and no one else on the roster can protect the paint, plus Bron ain't flying in from behind for chase down blocks anymore. Love/Bron/Kyrie would be a GREAT offensive combo, but any team with Bron and Kyrie is gonna score in bunches anyway. Where are the good defenders on this team outside of Bron, Varejao, and possibly Wiggins? It would really help if they had some insurance for Varejao on defense.

  

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ShawndmeSlanted
Member since Oct 30th 2004
42601 posts
Thu Jul-17-14 10:57 PM

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9. "Twolves will move him"
In response to Reply # 7
Thu Jul-17-14 11:03 PM by ShawndmeSlanted

  

          

Say you have wiggins playing off the bench and his numbers dont look great or he doesnt look great. Trade value also goes down there or Minn has even more leverage. The chance of that happening is higher with a rookie playing next to Bron and Kyrie.



Secondly, I think Wiggins will be a perfect complement to Lebron going forward. Lebron's going to start slowing down at some point, and he'll see someone else to chase around tough perimeter matchups and lock em up, and you know Kyrie won't be the one to do it. Plus, he's cost controlled for the next 4 years or so, which is past the current CBA. Look how big of an advantage San Antonio had by having Leonard blow up while still on his rookie contract, letting them pay star guys like Duncan/Parker/Manu AND get depth.

Lebron doesnt care about when Lebron is slowing down. Hes pulling the strings here. He cares about his legacy. If I were just the cavs id understand keeping Wiggins. But they signed the King. They gotta listen.



Miami's run ended prematurely because within 4 years, Bosh and Wade (especially) were not worth max contracts, and they had zero flexibility to get anyone besides old guys on their last legs and late 1st round rookies to fill out the roster. Not that Bron/Kyrie/Love will not be worth the max in 3-4 years, and the CBA will probably be blown up by then, but if they keep some cap flexibility, who's to say they can't get a good player next summer as well?



Kyrie and Love are younger (though they have proven to be injury prone)



My big concern for these Cavs would actually be rim protection. Varejao is a great interior defender, but a good bet to miss half a season, and no one else on the roster can protect the paint, plus Bron ain't flying in from behind for chase down blocks anymore. Love/Bron/Kyrie would be a GREAT offensive combo, but any team with Bron and Kyrie is gonna score in bunches anyway. Where are the good defenders on this team outside of Bron, Varejao, and possibly Wiggins? It would really help if they had some insurance for Varejao on defense.

Theyll add some cheap depth there.

If the deal as constructed remains true, they can trade Wiggins for a big. Or they can move Varejao and his expiring contract.

If they dont give up picks in this dal, they still have picks to give.

---
"though time has passed, im still the future" (c) black thought

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71313 posts
Thu Jul-17-14 11:21 PM

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13. "well said and now we see why this poll is swinging"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

"yes" made up ground in a hurry

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71313 posts
Thu Jul-17-14 11:19 PM

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12. "That underestimates how singular of a commodity Love is."
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

And, as Mike Armentrout says, "Never take a half measure."

You ride the fence and risk losing out on him. That also means potentially losing LeBron (again).

You don't think other teams will be interested? As I told Frank, there are a lot of franchises, they all want an all-star big man entering his prime. Sure, some teams don't have the assets or financial flexibility, but that doesn't describe everyone. This is not a two-horse race between the Warriors and Cavs, do not be naive.

The thing Longo was pointing to was Love's lack of interest in most of the other teams. That may be true, but they are all better than Minnesota so as the list of suitors expands, so too will his list of suitable destinations.

Short of Love demanding a trade to Cleveland specifically, Cleveland doesn't stand to gain any leverage by waiting IMO.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
25307 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 08:42 AM

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50. "^^ yup, the real turning point is rookie deal v. Kevin Love's $$$"
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

>Secondly, I think Wiggins will be a perfect complement to
>Lebron going forward. Lebron's going to start slowing down at
>some point, and he'll see someone else to chase around tough
>perimeter matchups and lock em up, and you know Kyrie won't be
>the one to do it. Plus, he's cost controlled for the next 4
>years or so, which is past the current CBA. Look how big of an
>advantage San Antonio had by having Leonard blow up while
>still on his rookie contract, letting them pay star guys like
>Duncan/Parker/Manu AND get depth.

If the Cavs want to maintain flexibility, the best thing to do is to keep Wiggins and hope he's a stud. Personally I don't know why people don't recognize that just with his athleticism, Wiggins would be a monster on the fast break with Bron and Kyrie. He doesn't even need to be an amazing half-court player, just getting up and down the floor, Wiggins should have plenty of games where he can get 10+ points just in transition, feeding of Kyrie and Bron. Have we forgotten how aggressively Wade + Bron were getting down the floor in the early Heat years, back when Wade had knees?

Of course, Love is genuinely a great outlet passer and would complement Kyrie and Bron in that regard, too, so it's tough, but then the pain of the decision rests in the salary structure. If Wiggins is a stud, you get him at cost for four years, AND you have another first-rounder coming up next year. If you move for Love, you've already re-upped Kyrie, you know Bron is focused on maxing out earnings, and it would be pretty silly to talk to Kevin about a paycut when you know tons of teams are lining up to rain money down on him the first chance they get. So now you have your three high-priced superstars locked in, and you have to hope that's good enough, even though you have the extremely recent example of Miami where lack of depth can really come with a cost.

But yeah -- I think as far as talent / win-now considerations, you take Love. But if you're thinking about roster building, it's damn hard to give up four years of rookie scale on a guy that could definitely be an All-Star somewhere within that timeframe.

___________

HOPE!
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https://vine.co/v/i7JtqEFwxDu

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71313 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 09:18 AM

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64. "Flexibility for what? So they could sign a worse player than Love?"
In response to Reply # 50


  

          

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
25307 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 09:24 AM

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72. "Cavs roster, as is, has 3 All-Stars on it; they need rotation guys"
In response to Reply # 64


  

          

granted, Wiggins might not be an All-Star this year, but there's a very good chance he will warrant that within the next four years, ESPECIALLY if you bring him up in a healthy ecosystem where he can learn from LeBron and not suffer under the weight of superstar pressure from day one.

What the Cavs really need beyond that is depth, and salary flexibility will help them insert themselves in trades for rotation guys or be able to shop for them in free agency. With Love in the picture, they go to the Miami model of roster construction, and we've seen how that plays out. Only way it changes is if the salary cap jumps dramatically, which would be in 2 years when Wiggins will likely be an All-Star anyway.

___________

HOPE!
https://vine.co/v/i7JjIBL3Qix
https://vine.co/v/i7JtqEFwxDu

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71313 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 11:45 AM

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141. "They dont have four years to wait and why should they?"
In response to Reply # 72


  

          

If they flop this year, it's "The Decision Part III"

Going to Bron's rookie year, I said they needed to take the long view, not be the insecure boyfriend. They should stay flexible and use him as a bargaining chip. But he's not 18 anymore. He's about 30. He's also not under contract for four years. He's under contract, effectively, for one.

Time to win now, today. Not next year, not in four years. THIS YEAR.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
25307 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 01:01 PM

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159. "that sort of short-term thinking woulda been a hit at Bear Stearns"
In response to Reply # 141


  

          

Firstly, you ignore the possibility that adding Love could result in the same thing as keeping Wiggins, i.e. no chip, in which case two years from now Cleveland wouldn't just be a struggle situation for Bron, but in the Love scenario a struggle situation with less flexibility and a dimmer future. More or less the same situation he just left in Miami. He also could be in the Finals, possibly even winning, with Wiggins. We don't know how good Wiggins is.

You act as if there are two choices: add Love and become champs, or keep Wiggins and don't become champs. That's just a completely ridiculous way to frame the options.

Secondly, you seem to assume Cleveland's only hope of retaining Bron is winning championships, when there's absolutely nothing to support this. I thought it was pretty transparent that the 2-year deal is in order to maximize his earnings after the new TV deal kicks in, and at that time Cleveland will be able to offer him the most years and the most money. Why shouldn't Cleveland proceed confidently with a strong shot at winning the East this yearr, while still putting themselves in position to compete at the highest level for years to come?

Basically you're framing this as "get Love or lose Bron" when there really are many, many more scenarios than just that.

___________

HOPE!
https://vine.co/v/i7JjIBL3Qix
https://vine.co/v/i7JtqEFwxDu

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71313 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 01:32 PM

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177. "RE: that sort of short-term thinking woulda been a hit at Bear Stearns"
In response to Reply # 159


  

          

>Firstly, you ignore the possibility that adding Love could
>result in the same thing as keeping Wiggins, i.e. no chip, in
>which case two years from now Cleveland wouldn't just be a
>struggle situation for Bron, but in the Love scenario a
>struggle situation with less flexibility and a dimmer future.
>More or less the same situation he just left in Miami. He
>also could be in the Finals, possibly even winning, with
>Wiggins. We don't know how good Wiggins is.

We know how good Love is. With Love, the Cavs would be odds-on favorites to win the East. They would be championship contenders immediately. Not on any unspecified timeline. If they don't *win* the title, I don't think LeBron, who stressed his patience in the letter, will bail just because of that. If they spend the year bowling with the bumpers on because they have a bunch of kids, then yes, he will have a wandering eye. Your argument is a relativist one and the comparison to Bear Stearns is, frankly, really fucking stupid. We are not talking about a 31-year-old mercenary with Love, we are talking about a guy in his mid 20s who is already balling. It's a fine move for the future.

>You act as if there are two choices: add Love and become
>champs, or keep Wiggins and don't become champs. That's just
>a completely ridiculous way to frame the options.

No, the choice is between acquiring Love and contending for a title or keeping Wiggins and risking a return to the dark ages. In a way, that is an even more dire proposition. I really like Wiggins, but a college freshman with some raw elements to his game is not the lynchpin of a title team right today. They don't have tomorrow to wait for. They have two years, and maybe just one.

>Secondly, you seem to assume Cleveland's only hope of
>retaining Bron is winning championships, when there's
>absolutely nothing to support this. I thought it was pretty
>transparent that the 2-year deal is in order to maximize his
>earnings after the new TV deal kicks in, and at that time
>Cleveland will be able to offer him the most years and the
>most money. Why shouldn't Cleveland proceed confidently with
>a strong shot at winning the East this yearr, while still
>putting themselves in position to compete at the highest level
>for years to come?

Oh really? That's apparent? Then why can he opt out after one year? This is LeBron we are talking about, not Tony fucking Gwynn.

>Basically you're framing this as "get Love or lose Bron" when
>there really are many, many more scenarios than just that.

There are but almost ALL the favorable ones include them acquiring Love. Love is not a short-term rental, he is a cornerstone for a long time. Wiggins might be that, but we aren't sure, and he is certainly not that immediately. You're trading prospect for proven and small for big. In what fucking universe is that a difficult decision???

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
25307 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 02:32 PM

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191. "but we've just seen how the 3 MAX player scenario plays out"
In response to Reply # 177


  

          

>We know how good Love is. With Love, the Cavs would be odds-on
>favorites to win the East. They would be championship
>contenders immediately. Not on any unspecified timeline. If
>they don't *win* the title, I don't think LeBron, who stressed
>his patience in the letter, will bail just because of that. If
>they spend the year bowling with the bumpers on because they
>have a bunch of kids, then yes, he will have a wandering eye.
>Your argument is a relativist one and the comparison to Bear
>Stearns is, frankly, really fucking stupid. We are not talking
>about a 31-year-old mercenary with Love, we are talking about
>a guy in his mid 20s who is already balling. It's a fine move
>for the future.

But it's about the roster construction. With two players on long-term MAX and LBJ angling for top dollar, your left with very little flexibility. If that roster, for whatever reason, fails to win the chip ... well then that's your roster the next year, too. With Wiggins as the long-term piece, you can count on his development and still be a player in acquiring rotation pieces. Also, there will be other trade offers you can package a young guy in if you decide that's the right move. I know Love is young, but his presumed contract structure is what locks the roster in, not his age or decline or anything.

>No, the choice is between acquiring Love and contending for a
>title or keeping Wiggins and risking a return to the dark
>ages. In a way, that is an even more dire proposition. I
>really like Wiggins, but a college freshman with some raw
>elements to his game is not the lynchpin of a title team right
>today. They don't have tomorrow to wait for. They have two
>years, and maybe just one.

But this is also where you get to -- is Bennett in the deal? Thompson? Because while I don't expect either to be Kevin Love, they could still show real progression playing alongside LBJ. Wiggins is the center-piece, sure, but that's where you're left with the question of how serious a contender is left once Love arrives. Wiggins backstops LBJ, offers a bridge to the future, Thompson or Bennett COULD make Love less of a dire need. That's part of the flexibility you sacrifice flexibility, too...

>There are but almost ALL the favorable ones include them
>acquiring Love. Love is not a short-term rental, he is a
>cornerstone for a long time. Wiggins might be that, but we
>aren't sure, and he is certainly not that immediately. You're
>trading prospect for proven and small for big. In what fucking
>universe is that a difficult decision???

Kevin Love only plays one side of the floor. Wiggins might be ANYTHING, in what world is trading away supposedly the best draft prospect in years before he even plays a minute anything less than rash?

___________

HOPE!
https://vine.co/v/i7JjIBL3Qix
https://vine.co/v/i7JtqEFwxDu

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71313 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 04:46 PM

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204. "Teams with three max players have won 5 of the last 7 chips lmap"
In response to Reply # 191


  

          

Boston, the Lakers (twice) and the Heat (twice) all essentially had three max guys (KG/Ray/PP, Kobe/Pau/Bynum and Bosh/Wade/Bron). They all managed to continue attracting free agents (ring chasers) and making decent draft picks in some cases. Those three teams also account for four more Finals appearances in which they lost. So, um, what exactly are we criticizing here? And what are they going to do with this magnificent "flexibility" between now and the time Wiggins gets his max deal? Maybe sign a player like Kevin Love, if they are insanely lucky.



>But this is also where you get to -- is Bennett in the deal?
>Thompson? Because while I don't expect either to be Kevin
>Love, they could still show real progression playing alongside
>LBJ.

Two guys that play the same position as each other and kinda sorta the same one as LeBron or Love? Who gives a shit? Bennett was a colossal bust in year one and what he does in summer league means shit to me. Guys like Waiters and Thompson will be solid pros but are they deal-breakers in a trade like this? I could see some reservation on Bennett if you seriously value his potential, but not enough to hold up the deal. Obviously the core of this deal is good for both teams, now, as I said, it's a battle to see who comes out ahead in peripheral assets. That said, they are still peripheral.

Wiggins is the center-piece, sure, but that's where
>you're left with the question of how serious a contender is
>left once Love arrives. Wiggins backstops LBJ, offers a
>bridge to the future, Thompson or Bennett COULD make Love less
>of a dire need. That's part of the flexibility you sacrifice
>flexibility, too...

What has either of those guys done to prove they are ready to play for a contender right now? Fucking nothing. This is not about asset management, if it were, you might be right. But it's not, it's about winning and it's about winning immediately. There is no reason to wait when you have the best player in the league. Would someone have taken this attitude if Michael Jordan went to some team like the Timberwolves when he came back the first time? Of course not, they would have immediately tooled up with veterans, especially if a star in his prime were magically available.


>Kevin Love only plays one side of the floor. Wiggins might be
>ANYTHING, in what world is trading away supposedly the best
>draft prospect in years before he even plays a minute anything
>less than rash?

In how many "years" are we talking? Two? He is very promising but I wouldn't say he is like heads above Anthony Davis. Do you think Wiggins is clearly going to be a better player than Love? How could anyone believe that, Love is a top 20 player in the league by even a pretty conservative estimate. Any time you add a great rebounder, your defense is not going to suffer that much, that's something I think is lost in these "one side of the floor" arguments.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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Fri Jul-18-14 05:43 PM

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214. "i love how the heat have become this failed experiment/cautionary tale"
In response to Reply # 204


  

          

'you can't do the superteam thing anymore, we all saw how that ended up in miami'

ummm, extremely fucking successfully?

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
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Fri Jul-18-14 06:09 PM

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217. "MIA was one rebound away for being 1 for 4, only won in the lockout year"
In response to Reply # 214


  

          

and I would pick the Cavs roster, as is, to emerge from the East this year.

Making the Finals four times, coming out of the East, isn't that mind-blowing. Two for four in Finals is good, but like I said that's a razor thin margin and I would hope the team with the best player in basketball (now the Cavs...) could capitalize on that at least half the time in the Finals.

So it's not that the Heat were bad, per se, it's makes for a small window. Why take the small window when the Cavs are poised to create a big one if they play it right?

___________

HOPE!
https://vine.co/v/i7JjIBL3Qix
https://vine.co/v/i7JtqEFwxDu

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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Fri Jul-18-14 06:47 PM

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221. "the heat's window was small b/c wade got old overnight."
In response to Reply # 217


  

          

that isn't evidence that the big 3 model doesn't work, it just shows that you need to pick the right 3 guys.

kevin love is 25. kyrie irving's 22. in 4 years, both will still be well within their primes.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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Sat Jul-19-14 03:57 PM

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228. "They went to the Finals FOUR TIMES. Even if they Buffalo Billed it"
In response to Reply # 217


  

          

that would have been successful, and they didn't, they won twice and weren't embarrassed or anything (think 2007 Cavs) the other times either.

This thread has made people lose their damn minds, I swear.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
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Fri Jul-18-14 06:19 PM

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218. "Each of those big 3's has a 2-way big as one of the max deals "
In response to Reply # 204


  

          

In our case, there were two. It's not easy to find versatile bigs who play both sides of the floor without paying top dollar, and once Cleveland locks in Love, they won't be able to ...unless Dieng is included which imo would be a colossal steal for Cleveland and fuck up by Minny.

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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Fri Jul-18-14 06:43 PM

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220. "they wouldn't need *another* top dollar 2-way big on top of their big 3 ..."
In response to Reply # 218


  

          

just a cheap rim-protector.

you guys keep acting like it'd be impossible for them to add one once they've locked into bron/love/kyrie @ max.

like gorgui dieng wasn't drafted in the 20s. like ibaka wasn't. like taj and tiago weren't. like d jordan and asik didn't go 2nd rd.

there's always guys out there. they'd find someone.






>In our case, there were two. It's not easy to find versatile
>bigs who play both sides of the floor without paying top
>dollar, and once Cleveland locks in Love, they won't be able
>to ...unless Dieng is included which imo would be a colossal
>steal for Cleveland and fuck up by Minny.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
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Fri Jul-18-14 06:58 PM

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222. ""cheap" rim protectors? you know how much Hibbert gets paid, right?"
In response to Reply # 220


  

          

and Hibbert isn't that great of a basketball player. Even Larry Sanders is on like $11M/yr, isn't he? And Splitter isn't even really a rim protector and he's making like $9M/yr? There's no such thing as "cheap" rim protection in the NBA any more. Maybe you could draft a guy ... maybe ... but outside the lotto, you'd probably have to target a project a la Steven Adams (who was lotto, anyway) and now you're outside the "WIN NOW!" mode if it's a draft project you're counting on putting you over.

___________

HOPE!
https://vine.co/v/i7JjIBL3Qix
https://vine.co/v/i7JtqEFwxDu

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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Fri Jul-18-14 07:10 PM

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224. "they could find one in the draft."
In response to Reply # 222


  

          

>Maybe you could draft a guy ... maybe ... but outside the lotto, you'd
>probably have to target a project a la Steven Adams (who was lotto, anyway)

i just named a bunch of guys who went late 1st/2nd.

>and now you're outside the "WIN NOW!" mode if it's a draft project you're counting on
>putting you over.

so you're picking them to win the east right away w/ wiggins in a large role, but a rim-protecting bit player would take years to develop and delay the window?

a bron/love/kyrie/dieng core couldn't 'win now' because dieng isn't ready?

you sure you wanna go w/ that?

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
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Fri Jul-18-14 07:52 PM

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225. "If only it was that easy to project effective bigs"
In response to Reply # 220
Fri Jul-18-14 07:55 PM by LA2Philly

  

          

Of course we have the luxury of hindsight so although guys may be available and have been in the past, that doesn't change that talent evaluation is often lacking......and the one thing that the Cavs management has shown, other than the 2 no-brainer picks, is that they aren't all that savvy in their draft evaluations.

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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MothershipConnection
Member since Nov 22nd 2003
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Fri Jul-18-14 10:01 PM

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226. "I know, for every Ibaka, there's 2 or 3 Biyombo's and Rudy Gobert's"
In response to Reply # 225


  

          

There's a reason proven rim protectors like Hibbert and Deandre who have barely any other skills are $10 million+ players. If it was that easy to pluck a starting quality rim protector, every team would just pick one at the back end of the 1st round.

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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Sun Jul-20-14 05:20 PM

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239. "umm, what's wrong with biyombo or gobert?"
In response to Reply # 226


  

          

actually that's EXACTLY the type of guys i'm referring to when i mention cheap rim protection. you put a guy like that on a team with 3 top 20 players, give him a very specific defined role, which is to stand in front of the rim and goon out for 20 or 25 min a night, and he'd be fine. his impact on that team would be a lot different than on say a utah or charlotte.

they wouldn't need $15M for a roy hibbert, who's indy's #2 scoring option in addition to his defensive duties. they'd just need a younger joel anthony or birdman andersen. if that guy gives them 5 pts a game, that's fine. and being on the court with a guy like lebron is going to elevate everyone's level of play. ppl are making that argument for wiggins, why wouldn't it be the same for a young shot-blocking big?

it's contradictory to act like finding a decent rim-protector is impossible w/ 3 max contracts on the books, and then fawn over how perfect gorgui dieng -- a late 1st rd pick in last yr's draft i.e. a very available type of player -- would be in that role.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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Tue Jul-22-14 11:13 PM

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287. "aiyo.. seriously tho, guys..."
In response to Reply # 239


  

          

what's wrong with bismack biyombo?

http://bkref.com/tiny/9f7j9

2nd in the league in blocks per 36 min, behind serge

http://bkref.com/tiny/RavQd

1st in blocks per 100 possessions, just ahead of AD, serge and hibbs

(btw, gobert would've been 1st in both categories but didn't play enough minutes to qualify)

http://bkref.com/tiny/KSDwQ

3rd in block percentage, behind AD and serge

http://i.imgur.com/22Vr7tc.png

1st in the league in opponent's FG% @ the rim, by a wide margin

...

i need to know why biyombo couldn't be the center on a contender, if it also included a top 5 PF, a top 5 PG, and the best player in the world, and all he had to do was guard the front of the rim.

like, i need a more compelling reason than LOL DOOD IT'S BISMACK BIYOMBO LOLZ

cleveland should actually go after dude whether they land love or not. watch some smart team swoop him up @ a decent price while everybody else is LOL'ing.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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Sun Jul-20-14 12:38 PM

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233. "You can keep repeating this, but it won't make it meaningful"
In response to Reply # 218


  

          

If they have a healthy Varejao and another big who can protect the rim--it doesn't have to be Hibbert or Gasol or anyone crazy--they are in business. LeBron is the rangiest defender in the league. Love is one of the best rebounders. Bosh and Garnett were so critical because they had little else up front. If they have Love and then get some depth around him, role guys, then they will be totally fine. No one things Love is going to come in and play like Hakeem. They will need to round out their team in other ways, but again Wiggins doesn't protect the rim either.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
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Sun Jul-20-14 07:34 PM

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242. "You repeatedly saying it isn't meaningful doesn't make that meaningful "
In response to Reply # 233


  

          

I don't think Varejao is all that good of a rim protector, he's a good positional player but he doesn't provide much protection vertically. KG and Bosh were important because they are bigs who provide the majority of backside cover, horizontally and vertically, with their length and versatility. Lebron may be the rangiest defensive player, but how often is he rotating in the paint? I feel with Love you need a very strong rim protector to complement him, Varejao isn't that guy. With Wiggins, you allow yourself another excellent wing defender who can force the defense into their 3rd, 4th, 5th options while also making your rotations that much quicker, and you allow more salary flexibility in order to find that strong rim protection.

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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Mon Jul-21-14 12:02 PM

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250. "Again, I'm just not seeing a net gain with Wiggins/dealbreaker w/Love"
In response to Reply # 242


  

          

You're not filling the need you're looking at with Wiggins, you may or may not be improving your defense as a whole (consider a raw Wiggins defense against a developed Love's rebounding) and you can go out and get a piece that fills that need. Is it available? Maybe, maybe not, but the only argument that it would be more available with Wiggins is that he gives you salary flexibility for next year. IMO no marquee rim protector is going to hit the market. So either way you are looking at secondary options. I just don't see it as a consideration here. If we were talking about trading like Nerlens Noel for Love (which I would do, incidentally), I could see a stronger argument because he is a rim protector. As it is, this sort of secondhand addressing of the need (perimeter defender that might ease the burden on the interior guys) is just not convincing.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
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Mon Jul-21-14 01:55 PM

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251. "why not go after Hibbert?"
In response to Reply # 250


  

          

you can keep wiggins, Hibbert's a rim protector who doesn't need touches, his contract's up in a couple years.

indy would get dion and thompson or bennett for a guy who supposedly disappeared. it actually makes too much sense. i guess the in-the-division stuff is the problem?

-----------
Y'all stupid...should've tanked for Lebron/Wiggins in 2014 -Rex LongFellow

Its 2014...there are computers in glasses and people stunt after hitting the ball far. Get over it. -Cenario

It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilariou

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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Mon Jul-21-14 05:51 PM

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255. "And what do they use to acquire Hibbert?"
In response to Reply # 251


  

          

You think Indiana is going to take some clearance rack prospects for one of their main players? Do you see them taking say Waiters and Thompson for him? I don't.

Is a team with Hibbert and a rookie Wiggins better than a team with Love? I am not entirely sure, and again you have to give up assets to get Hibbert.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
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Mon Jul-21-14 08:32 PM

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262. "Suddenly, I'm the guy under appreciating Hibbert?"
In response to Reply # 255


  

          

Wow
-----------
Y'all stupid...should've tanked for Lebron/Wiggins in 2014 -Rex LongFellow

Its 2014...there are computers in glasses and people stunt after hitting the ball far. Get over it. -Cenario

It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilariou

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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Tue Jul-22-14 05:12 PM

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272. "huh?"
In response to Reply # 262


  

          

what i meant was that they dont have assets to move for hibbert and they wouldn't move wiggins for him, so like the horford speculation that seems moot to me.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
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Tue Jul-22-14 06:02 PM

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275. "waiters/bennett really wouldn't get hibbert?"
In response to Reply # 272
Tue Jul-22-14 06:02 PM by thejerseytornado

  

          

waiters/thompson? i'm honestly surprised that those guys wouldn't at least get the convo started.

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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Wed Jul-23-14 09:48 AM

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295. "Conversation started? Sure. Deal done? I'm not as sure"
In response to Reply # 275


  

          

The Pacers get younger (but without trading a real veteran like say West) and smaller when they are trying to compete in an open east? I don't see it. I think if anything a deal for a lesser big man and a good point guard would be what they wanted for Hibbert. I also think Bennett's trade value is really limited at the moment. Cavs should hang onto him if possible, have faith in their evaluation of him.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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Mon Jul-21-14 02:18 PM

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253. "but it isn't."
In response to Reply # 242


  

          

your argument is that lebron/love/irving wouldn't work because you'd still need a rim protector and you wouldn't have the money to go out and get one. that simply isn't true. you'd have to value-shop, sure, but you could find a guy for cheap who would suffice.

you couldn't do it year one -- they'd have to just make do with varejao + a stopgap vet-min type -- but next summer they have the full MLE, the BAE, and possibly 3 first round picks, minus whatever they'd move in the love deal. with those tools at their disposal, they can get decent rim protection. you're not getting hibbs or ibaka but you wouldn't need to. those guys make 8 figs annual b/c they also have significant offensive responsibilities, a bron/love/irving core would have that covered. they'd literally just need a guy to protect the paint, w/ no real scoring duties. guys like that are eminently available and affordable.

http://i.imgur.com/22Vr7tc.png

there's plenty of guys on that list that could be had w/ MLE money or less and who'd give them exactly what they needed. robin lopez, mahinmi, udoh, mosgov, withey, o'quinn, the aforeshitted-on biyombo and gobert. you might laugh at some of those names, but you might have laughed at joel anthony and chris andersen too. and it's not that i'm even endorsing those specific names, just pointing out the types of guys they could realistically target who would be more than sufficient. or if they decided to go the draft route, i named some guys earlier who went late 1st and 2nd rd. they wouldn't need an all star there, or even a guy who they'd depend on at all for scoring. just somebody to stand in front of the rim, alter shots and be a presence.

to paraphrase big boi, you don't worry about the wood grain steering wheel til after you get the rims. kevin love is the fucking rims, man. get him into the fold and worry about the accoutrements later. as i said in the other thread, the challenge of building around 3 top 20 guys is a *good* problem to have.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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Mon Jul-21-14 05:53 PM

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256. "EGGZACKLEE (c) Magic Johnson"
In response to Reply # 253


  

          

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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267. "dudes are tripping."
In response to Reply # 256


  

          

http://i.imgur.com/22Vr7tc.png

biyombo and gobert were 2 of the better young rim protectors in the league last year. per-minute blocks on a par with hibbert and ibaka.

you add 2 cheapo guys like that to a lebron/love/irving core, with waiters, thompson and a couple veteran wing shooters off the bench. play them 20 minutes apiece and go smallball w/ thompson @ center for the other 8. and you're winning the damn title.

it's not rocket science.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
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Tue Jul-22-14 06:04 PM

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276. "both of them are cheap because they're on rookie contracts"
In response to Reply # 267


  

          

let's slow our roll on how cheap rim protectors are when the only examples of cheap ones are on rookie deals.

-----------
Y'all stupid...should've tanked for Lebron/Wiggins in 2014 -Rex LongFellow

Its 2014...there are computers in glasses and people stunt after hitting the ball far. Get over it. -Cenario

It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilariou

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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Tue Jul-22-14 06:22 PM

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277. "nothing's stopping CLE from drafting / trading for a guy..."
In response to Reply # 276
Tue Jul-22-14 06:42 PM by dula dibiasi

  

          

who's still on rookie scale.

and even after rookie scale, guys that are SOLELY rim protectors with no real offensive duties can be had for MLE or thereabouts. and that's all a bron/love/irving cavs team would need @ center.

>let's slow our roll on how cheap rim protectors are when the
>only examples of cheap ones are on rookie deals.

this isn't true. saying it over and over won't make it true.

look at the list i posted. every guy on there isn't either on rookie scale or making huge money. robin lopez and mahinmi were MLE guys. udoh and mozgov are UFAs that won't break the bank. koufos is cheap. i'm not saying there's a ton of guys, but they're out there and smart front offices find them.

we're not talking about all pros here. you guys are setting the bar too high w/ this hibbert/ibaka stuff. you're not gonna get great all around players @ every single position.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
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Tue Jul-22-14 07:51 PM

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278. "an nba championship team doesn't start mozgov or mahinmi"
In response to Reply # 277


  

          

at center and not desperately try to upgrade. biyombo couldnt get 20 minutes a game in charlotte, but he'll be the rim protector Cleveland needs? ok, player.

-----------
Y'all stupid...should've tanked for Lebron/Wiggins in 2014 -Rex LongFellow

Its 2014...there are computers in glasses and people stunt after hitting the ball far. Get over it. -Cenario

It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilariou

  

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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
25307 posts
Tue Jul-22-14 08:02 PM

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279. "EGGZACKLEE (c) Magic Johnson"
In response to Reply # 278


  

          

___________

HOPE!
https://vine.co/v/i7JjIBL3Qix
https://vine.co/v/i7JtqEFwxDu

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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Tue Jul-22-14 09:09 PM

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282. "to be honest..."
In response to Reply # 279


  

          

i don't think cleveland is going to be looking to invest 10 or 12 or 14 million a yr on a starting center regardless of whether or not they trade for love. they are going to have to resign thompson and waiters and wiggins at some point.

i think they're going to be looking for the 25 yr old equivalents of haslem and birdman and joel anthony, exactly the type of cheapo role guys that you all are disparaging.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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Tue Jul-22-14 08:08 PM

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280. "an nba championship team doesn't start haslem and joel anthony at center"
In response to Reply # 278
Tue Jul-22-14 08:25 PM by dula dibiasi

  

          

until one did.

i wouldn't call either of them a markedly better rim protector than ian mahinmi.

>biyombo couldnt get 20 minutes a game in charlotte, but he'll be the
>rim protector Cleveland needs? ok, player.

sure. why not?

biyombo didn't play more minutes in charlotte because the team was poorly constructed with no real scoring punch on the wing and desperately needed jefferson's scoring from its center position. a team with 20+ppg scorers at 3 other positions would have different needs there.

when biyombo was on the floor, opponents shot under 39% at the rim. that's elite level rim protection. if you're writing him off at 21 years old and don't think he could make a bigger contribution in the future in a different situation, you're being very shortsighted.

what about robin lopez? he couldn't be an effective starter w/ bron, love and irving? he's currently on a 3yr 15M contract, after being given up on early in his career by multiple teams.





>at center and not desperately try to upgrade. biyombo couldnt
>get 20 minutes a game in charlotte, but he'll be the rim
>protector Cleveland needs? ok, player.
>
>-----------
>Y'all stupid...should've tanked for Lebron/Wiggins in 2014
>-Rex LongFellow
>
>Its 2014...there are computers in glasses and people stunt
>after hitting the ball far. Get over it. -Cenario
>
>It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilariou

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
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Tue Jul-22-14 11:08 PM

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286. "Biyombo didn't get enough meaningful minutes for those stats to matter"
In response to Reply # 280


  

          

He was a scrub playing against other teams scrubs.

Robin Lopez is the best example you've got and he's making almost seven million on a contract that would be deemed cheap for what he provides. So....not a cheap player.

Miami starting Harlem and Anthony and bird man is a part of why they only won two rings while starting Lebron, bosh, and wade. Alternatively, I'd say Lebron, Irving, and a better constructed set of role players would do better than Lebron, Irving, love, and cheap players.

But please, let's both continue saying the same thing at each other with different examples. Fun!
-----------
Y'all stupid...should've tanked for Lebron/Wiggins in 2014 -Rex LongFellow

Its 2014...there are computers in glasses and people stunt after hitting the ball far. Get over it. -Cenario

It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilariou

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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Tue Jul-22-14 11:25 PM

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288. "question:"
In response to Reply # 286


  

          

so let's say they don't trade for love, keep wiggins and pursue a rim protector instead, via trade or free agency next yr.

can you give me some specific examples of guys you think they should pursue? i'm just trying to get an idea.

i know you already mentioned hibbert. who else?

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
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Wed Jul-23-14 12:05 PM

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321. "Lopez would be nice. but he's not "cheap" anymore"
In response to Reply # 288


  

          

a gortat or asik woulda been perfect. this is the point, though. I don't think rim protectors are out there in numbers. that's why i value it highly.

-----------
Y'all stupid...should've tanked for Lebron/Wiggins in 2014 -Rex LongFellow

Its 2014...there are computers in glasses and people stunt after hitting the ball far. Get over it. -Cenario

It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilariou

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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Wed Jul-23-14 05:56 PM

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352. "ok i see."
In response to Reply # 321


  

          

see, if i'm cleveland, i'd rather have lebron, love and irving, and then try to find the NEXT gortat or asik. not the 30 yr old versions that already require big money, but the orlando gortat or the chicago asik.

i really do think that you could put those three with a low-cost specialist like biyombo or gobert @ center and be in business. pair one of those younger guys with a cheap vet like udoh or mahinmi and they'd be fine. i'm not targeting guys in the 10-15M/yr range, i think that's overkill and an unnecessary waste.





>a gortat or asik woulda been perfect. this is the point,
>though. I don't think rim protectors are out there in numbers.
>that's why i value it highly.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
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Wed Jul-23-14 06:40 PM

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355. "it's not unreasonable"
In response to Reply # 352


  

          

but it's not likely you'll find the asik or gortat, else, they wouldn't get 10+ mil in fagency.

-----------
Y'all stupid...should've tanked for Lebron/Wiggins in 2014 -Rex LongFellow

Its 2014...there are computers in glasses and people stunt after hitting the ball far. Get over it. -Cenario

It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilariou

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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Wed Jul-23-14 07:14 PM

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357. "it's a challenge i'd gladly welcome."
In response to Reply # 355


  

          

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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Wed Jul-23-14 05:02 PM

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343. "Why not? They could get three or four such guys for $ of Hibbert"
In response to Reply # 278


  

          

Look at the Spurs, they have had guys like Oberto and Rose playing next to Duncan. I am not saying Love is on Duncan's level, I am just saying that you can have a star and then a bunch of depth specialists. That seems like a fine recipe. They don't need Mutombo, shit they could probably settle for Kendrick Perkins.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
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Wed Jul-23-14 05:19 PM

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351. "playing next to duncan vs. next to love matters, imo"
In response to Reply # 343


  

          

duncan was the defensive leader in the paint when they had scrub ass guys playing next to him.

-----------
Y'all stupid...should've tanked for Lebron/Wiggins in 2014 -Rex LongFellow

Its 2014...there are computers in glasses and people stunt after hitting the ball far. Get over it. -Cenario

It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilariou

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71313 posts
Sun Nov-02-14 01:31 AM

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519. "why were people posting like they didnt have varejao and thompson tho?"
In response to Reply # 278


  

          

healthy varejao is a hustle guy, rebounder, rim protector. thompson can hit the boards. love, obviously, is an asset on the glass. if they got another guy like a mozgov he wouldn't be a huge piece of the puzzle or even a starter.

the whole "NO RIM PROTECTOR" argument snowballed quickly and i can't figure out why. i also can't figure out why this poll didnt swing appropriately when it was about even. a lot of people will live to regret what they said in here.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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Fri Jul-18-14 05:40 PM

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212. ""the best draft prospect in years"?"
In response to Reply # 191


  

          

you talking about the guy who was going 3rd to philly until embiid broke his foot? let's not pretend that cleveland is punting on '85 ewing or '92 shaq here.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
41249 posts
Thu Jul-17-14 11:58 PM

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15. "I wouldn't, their team defense would suffer immensely"
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Jul-18-14 12:06 AM by LA2Philly

  

          

For as much people want to poo poo on Bosh about his performance, he was the defensive lynchpin for that Miami team due to his combination of length and agility...a team that was predicated on their defense. He was also big enough to play at the 5 so you could move Bron to the 4 which made for a very quick defensive team. We know that in the playoffs the game turns into a grind and weaknesses in your half-court defense get amplified....and they certainly would get amplified with Love in the game. Wiggins is going to be a stud defensively....not only due to his athleticism and length but he clearly already shows a dedication that side of the ball that you often don't see in players of his age and especially of that level of being hyped. Further, with Wiggins being on a rookie contract vs Love's (what will be a) max, that allows the team some financial flexibility in acquiring a paint protector.

I really like Love but I think if Kyrie increases his defensive effort (which will happen since he's now playing on a winning team and not just for buckets) and ball pressure with Lebron and Wiggins on the wings, that's a really scary defensive unit who can take away a lot of offensive options.

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
83406 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 12:00 AM

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16. "This is where I'm at:"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          


>I really like Love but I think if Kyrie increases his
>defensive effort (which will happen since he's now playing on
>a winning team and not just for buckets) and ball pressure
>with Lebron and Wiggins on the wings, that's a really scary
>defensive unit who can take away a lot of offensive options.

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

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woodsen2
Member since Jan 14th 2003
979 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 12:11 AM

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19. "RE: I wouldn't, their team defense would suffer immensely"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

>I really like Love but I think if Kyrie increases his
>defensive effort (which will happen since he's now playing on
>a winning team and not just for buckets) and ball pressure
>with Lebron and Wiggins on the wings, that's a really scary
>defensive unit who can take away a lot of offensive options.

Couldn't the same be said for Love or is he just incapable of being a solid defender? He was carrying the entire wolves offense

  

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LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
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Fri Jul-18-14 12:28 AM

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22. "Sure, but they have completely different defensive roles "
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

As a 4, Love is going to be playing in space defensively and asked to protect the paint and rim. That's going to be an issue with his size, strength, and speed limitations. Kyrie has the lateral ability and quickness to apply ball pressure, it's just a matter of effort.

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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MothershipConnection
Member since Nov 22nd 2003
7498 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 12:14 AM

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20. "Exactly, his strengths are already the Cavs strengths"
In response to Reply # 15
Fri Jul-18-14 12:16 AM by MothershipConnection

  

          

There's only so many shots to go around and only so many missed shots to grab, and any team with Kyrie/Bron is gonna score a grip of points, and the Cavs as constructed are already a strong rebounding team.

At some point you have to address defense and young athletic defenders who aren't a total offensive liability don't grow on trees. I mean it's easy to say "oh we can just teach these guys to defend" but there's a reason why guys like Kawhi Leonard are so valuable. I'm trusting Wiggins can defend at an above average clip while filling the lane for a dunk and making a few open shots once in a while (he doesn't even have to do things he sucks at like dribble or create next to Bron!).

And I realize that the Cavs need to impress this year and next, but as Bron gets older, his skills are going to gravitate to the playmaking 4, which is the same thing Love does.

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71313 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 09:21 AM

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68. "Bro, WTF does Bosh have to do with it?"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

Is losing Wiggins going to hurt their INTERIOR defense? It may not even hurt their perimeter defense in the short run (though ultimately he will be good at that end). Is losing Bennett or Waiters going to hurt their interior D?

You add Love--bang, 10+ boards a game, fuels transition--then you have a healthy Andy, who does nothing but hustle and defend, and you get Dieng in the deal. Now your team is bigger and better defensively. I am really surprised that you've had 24 hours to think about this and are still pushing this flimsy argument.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
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Fri Jul-18-14 11:04 AM

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135. "The point is you need rim and paint protection"
In response to Reply # 68


  

          

I've had more than 24 hours to think about it and it's still pretty simple to me: With Love at the 4, you are going to have some major issues on the backside of your defensive rotation and I was using Bosh as an example to show the kind of complementary piece and fit that Cleveland should wait to pay rather than locking themselves in with Love. You wanna call my argument flimsy yet fail to recognize that defensive rebounding and outlet passing aren't nearly equal to a backside rim protector especially when A) Love will be pulled away from the paint far more often and B) Varejao isn't much of a rim protector either. I haven't seen the iteration of the deal where Cleveland gets Dieng and Minny would remiss to include him imo.

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
21925 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 12:02 AM

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17. "https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bsy6BOgIEAAsGA5.jpg"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bsy6BOgIEAAsGA5.jpg

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
20388 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 12:03 AM

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18. "No - and I luls me some K Love but he plays ABSOLUTELY NO defense"
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Jul-18-14 12:17 AM by vee-lover

  

          

He's worse than Bosh on that end of the floor

His game would be a better fit on a team like GS

While I don't completely subscribe to this idea that "he's putting up numbers on a bad squad," I do wonder why his impressive stats don't seem to translate into team wins - the Timberwolves haven't even been in the hunt for an 8th seed...

Now, maybe he'll become more committed on defense if he were playing w/Lebron but I think he's just a lousy defender and might always be a liability on that end of the floor

Wiggins has the makings to be a special defensive player because of his length, quickness, and the effort to which he puts forth on that end of the floor ALREADY and his offensive game can and will improve, especially practicing and playing w/Lebron everyday - I just think it's befitting that Cleveland drafts him no.1 and then Lebron returns w/an opportunity to be a mentor to Wiggins who ppl were making comparisons to Lebron, ironically, although their gms aren't similar in any way (odd that Parker has been compared to Melo more so than any other player)

Love almost gives the Cavs the same thing Bosh gave the Heat: the ability to stretch the floor..but what he doesn't give the Cavs is also what Bosh couldn't give the Heat and that's an inside presence, somebody that you can throw the ball into the low post and they can get you 2, which is what that Cavs team is going to need just as the Heat could no longer mask that weakness of not having a real post threat (Tristan Thompson/Varajeo/Bennett ain't enough although Bennett has been looking impressive in summer league)

W/Wiggins, I like the idea of the Cavs being an up tempo team, w/Love, they'd probably be more of a half-court team.

Like I said before, as far as I'm concerned, Wiggins' potential is worth the risk of losing a proven double-double machine in KLove

grassrootsphilosopher

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71313 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 09:19 AM

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65. "So? Is Wiggins going to be their presence inside?"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

No, although he projects to be a good defender, that isn't his position/role. Are you going to say having a stopper in 2-3 years is worth giving up 20+ and 10+ RIGHT TODAY? Are these other guys that might go in the trade going to do it?

If they have Varejao and Dieng, they have plenty of inside muscle, plus Love doing his thing on the glass.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
32446 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 12:22 AM

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21. "the NO votes are insane to me"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

A starting lineup with Irving, James, Love, and Varejao can put a journeyman at 2 guard and be a legit contender. If they can hold on to Waiters they are a favorite.

An Irving, Wiggins, James, AB?, Varejao lineup will struggle to score and will get pounded on the glass. Love will create offense for everyone in the frontcourt, and his defensive rebounding keeps him from being bad enough defensively to justify NOT making the trade.

Love will immediately be the best teammate lebron has ever had.

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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Fri Jul-18-14 09:20 AM

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67. "I'm saying, WTF, how is this thing still basically even?"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

And I really, really like Wiggins.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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isaaaa
Member since May 10th 2007
30565 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 12:32 AM

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23. "I'd at LEAST wait until the trade deadline."
In response to Reply # 0


          


Anti-gentrification, cheap alcohol & trying to look pretty in our twilight posting years (c) Big Reg


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isaaaa
Member since May 10th 2007
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Fri Jul-18-14 12:33 AM

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24. "It will HURT the CAVS defensively"
In response to Reply # 0


          


Anti-gentrification, cheap alcohol & trying to look pretty in our twilight posting years (c) Big Reg


Get 25% off www.karmaloop.com w/ rep code JR9103 |
Nike, G-Star, Herschel, Adidas (Men's & Women's clothing)

  

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auragin_boi
Member since Aug 01st 2003
20795 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 12:58 AM

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25. "Let's look at this from all angles:"
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Jul-18-14 01:03 AM by auragin_boi

  

          

K-Love shot 18 times a game...30% of his shots were 3's. He shot 45% from the field (50% on 2's, 37% on 3's). Very strong defensive rebounder, avg offensive rebounder. 4.4 apg. Less than a steal and a .45 blocks per game.

Kyrie shot 17 times a game...27% of his shots were 3's. He shot 43% from the field, (45% on 2's, 35% on 3's). 1.5 spg.

Bron shot 17 times a game...27% of his shots were 3's. He shot 56% from the field (62% on 2's, 37% on 3's). 1.5 spg.


Now...playing with Bron, Wade and Bosh put up 14 and 12 shots per game. I'm thinking there's gonna be some HUGE sacrifices here. Is love really worth Wiggins' potential at 14 shots? 4 of which will probably be 3's? I will say that he might have better rebounding numbers BUT, he might not. Might be lateral. And he doesn't intimidate anyone on D. Love's shot chart shows that he spent his time either shooting 3's or posting up/getting layups off penetration. When he's shooting 3's he can't rebound.

To top that off...he'll make 15 mil next season and will want a Max extension.

I dunno fam. If he was a much better defender, this would be a no brainer but I don't see them being as effective as Miami. And the reason is that 2010-2012 Wade>>>>>>>>>Kyrie as a defender, Bosh>>>>>>>Love as a defender. A LOT of their defensive prowess rested on the big 3 and guys like Battier and UD. The Cavs don't have those guys and can't get them if they sign Love.

I'd much rather develop Wiggins under Bron, let those two (and Kyrie's quick hands) pressure the perimeter, Andy and Tristan eat glass and let Kyrie/Bron take the bulk of the shots (efficiently) and distribute accordingly.

A Cavs team with Love will have huge issues getting stops and filling out the roster due to the cap sitch.

A Cavs team with Wiggins has to wait on his development and may need to lean on Bron and Kyrie for more O but they'd be a solid defensive team with cap to fill out the roster with a rim protector and depth possibly.

I'd rather have the D and flexibility. People keep referring to Miami's big 3 as what it could look like but it could also look like the Laker's big 3 last year that didn't work. Would Love (and Kyrie to a lesser extent) be less effective with less opportunity?

Because Bron gonna get his.

____________
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LAbeathustla
Member since Jan 24th 2004
33763 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 01:26 AM

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26. "i think they can win either way"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

people in here devaluing love's game will be the first ones to say he cant hold it down as the MAN..which i agree he cant at all..so he has to be the second or 3rd guy...kyrie is going to have to adjust his game anyways with bron on the floor...i think love is the perfect fit ...with the ability to lure a big from the middle and open it up for bron with his 3pt shooting or pound the glass...the outlet passing and fast break aspect shawn spoke on makes him more enticing ..

------------------------------------
2019 CABG Survivor

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be about it or be without it

RIP GOATs

  

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Bombastic
Charter member
88861 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 01:27 AM

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27. "If that's what it takes then HELL YES & anyone disagreeing is a dumb ass"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I will give you personally a pass from that designation because I know your objections to this trade are mostly agenda & good ole fashioned hating based.

The rest of y'all need to smarten up or shut up because it's getting tiring to listen to already and we're a week into The Return.

Cleveland is a team with no post players and Love is a 25-year-old proven elite power forward, one of the leagues best rebounders, outlet passers and jump shooting big men.

To think that you would pass up a peak year or more of Lebron's peak years as he turns 30 and just returned to a franchise with no titles, all out of fear that a 19-year-old swing man yet to play a pro game might hurt you is the sorriest exercise in overthinking a team could do.

Luckily for the City of Cleveland, as long as Bron has opt-outs at the end of each season, Lebron is running the Cavaliers and he left those last two picks' names out that letter for a reason.

He's gonna make sure they get his Team USA teammate.

Try to do the deal without Wiggins but when that fails, as it will, they're gonna bite the bullet as they should.

You don't get players of that caliber without giving up something good and you don't hope that you can wait out a guy for a calendar year in hopes he will head to Cleveland in free agency.

Whatever Wiggins develops into by the time he reaches his prime doesn't matter, because Lebron/Kyrie/Love will have already won a title or two by then or something disastrous happened anyway.

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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Fri Jul-18-14 04:43 AM

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34. "it really is hard to believe."
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

i mean, we've all got our individual opinions, sure. but objectively? statistically? kevin love was one of the top 5 players in the league last year. even allowing for 'padding' and what not, you don't 'stat stuff' your way to those type of historic numbers unless you're really really fucking good. the idea that fans, media, and even actual nba execs have been balking on whether to include guys like klay thompson, brad beal, jimmy butler or an unproven 19 yr old andrew wiggins in an effort to acquire him is profoundly mind boggling to me.

if only one of the GMs with balls and vision, someone like morey or ainge or the dallas guys, had the necessary assets. they'd have gone out and sealed the deal on this guy months ago.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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Bombastic
Charter member
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360. "U & I'll be back in this post later surveying the wreckage like this one..."
In response to Reply # 34


  

          

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=21&topic_id=66263&mesg_id=66263&listing_type=search

  

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murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
23113 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 08:25 AM

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46. "RE: If that's what it takes then HELL YES & anyone disagreeing is a dumb..."
In response to Reply # 27


          





^^^^^^^^^^^^^


Like for real. This is some over-thinking/bizarro world shit.....

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

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Lach
Charter member
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Fri Jul-18-14 09:49 AM

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92. "/post"
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

  

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Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
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Fri Jul-18-14 03:46 AM

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30. "yes, over and over and over."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I really, really like the idea of this backcourt of an all-star becoming a superstar and a rookie destined for good things combined with one of the five dudes who's handled expectations as humbly and professionally as anyone possibly could while also becoming the best since the best..

But you give that story up for the fantastic all-star, the best since the best and the best player in the league who hash't figured out how to lead yet. That player doesn't need to lead anymore, but gets to learn how, while you avoid having to teach NBA basketball to a guy who'll haunt you championships down the road.

The only reason I wouldn't trade Wiggins is I (the Cavs GM/Gilbert) happen to really like him as a person and don't want to put him in that situation, or LeBron openly discusses it in a negative way to myself or worse the media.

~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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LegacyNS
Member since Jan 16th 2004
37956 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 03:54 AM

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31. "Cleveland has to try and win now.."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

and what if Wiggins never becomes the player that Love is?


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- 5....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlgiritpmfo

=======================================

Ditch the paper, save the trees, and go mobile! Text bizcard to 32462!

  

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DeepAztheRoot
Member since Dec 19th 2003
13976 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 04:39 AM

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32. "I agree, this is their window"
In response to Reply # 31


  

          

Fuck tomorrow, LeBron's hourglass is belching sand

this is the same as baseball guys who overvalue prospects over a legitimate opportunity at a WS appearance

<-Fear Ameer

  

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LegacyNS
Member since Jan 16th 2004
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33. "if they think he won't leave again for a chance to win chips"
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

they'll be burning jerseys again...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- 5....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlgiritpmfo

=======================================

Ditch the paper, save the trees, and go mobile! Text bizcard to 32462!

  

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ThaTruth
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Fri Jul-18-14 08:16 AM

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44. "and that's the thing, keeping Wiggins even if Lebron leaves you still..."
In response to Reply # 33


          

have Wiggins and Kyrie for possibly the next 10-15 years, with Love's style of play I could see him falling off in few years while you're still paying him max money

________________________________________
Watch For The Hook
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy9Fun9CuZ4

  

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LegacyNS
Member since Jan 16th 2004
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Fri Jul-18-14 10:18 AM

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116. "but they're betting on winning & keeping Bron the rest of his career"
In response to Reply # 44
Fri Jul-18-14 10:18 AM by LegacyNS

  

          

I can't be mad at that..

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- 5....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlgiritpmfo

=======================================

Ditch the paper, save the trees, and go mobile! Text bizcard to 32462!

  

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Marz
Member since Feb 08th 2008
217 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 05:13 AM

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35. "What about opportunity cost?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Let's say Cleveland has two trade packages:

Package A: Wiggins, Thompson, and a 1st round pick

Package B: Waiters, Thompson, Bennett, and two first round picks

Package A is superior. But couldn't they leverage Package B into an inferior power forward who might improve their defense?
For example, couldn't Package B get Kenneth Faried or Al Horford?

Horford + Wiggins >>> Love + Waiters IMO.

That said, if it comes down to Wiggins for Love, then yes, the trade should be made. But unless Golden State comes off Klay, Minnesota will wait and Cleveland should make them wait to see exactly what they have in Wiggins.

Come to think of it, is there a realistic trade package anywhere in the league that does not involve Klay that tops Package B?

  

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Cocobrotha2
Charter member
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Fri Jul-18-14 05:51 AM

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36. "Love's stats likely dropping doesn't matter"
In response to Reply # 0


          

That's just what happens when any star (other than LeBron) joins a more talented team... you don't have to do EVERYTHING; you can either focus on what the team needs most or what you do best.

Love's weakest area is defense so as long as THAT isn't what a team needs most from him, he's a great addition because he can do just about anything else.

<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->
<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->

  

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southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 07:51 AM

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37. "meh if lebron really is pushing for this then it's good as done"
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Jul-18-14 07:55 AM by southphillyman

  

          

the two things i don't like about it:

a)we probably never will see the full potential of wiggins if he goes to minny. if wiggins struggles early in a shitty situation the people in here campaigning hard as hell for yes votes (lol @ dula high 5'ing everyone that agrees with him) will use that as some sort of validation but i think most ppl understand the excitement over his potential lies in the assumption he develops on a good team under the tutelage of bron. if wiggins goes to minny i think fans of basketball lose out overall

b)the addition of love will take shots away from kyrie and likely knock him down to 3rd banana. not that big a deal as he'll still probably get off. i was just interested in seeing what he could do on a good team in the spotlight , his contribution will be diminished with the additional all star and i could see there being questions about what he could have done like there were with bosh


the funny thing about all the debate is i think most ppl on both sides would agree with the following.....
EITHER team is a contender to come out the east
NEITHER team would be a clear cut favorite against a strong western team in the short term
props to bron for wanting to deal with the big 3 pressure/hate again and we'll finally see how kyrie and love will react to the daily microscope

~~~~~~

  

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Marauder21
Charter member
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Fri Jul-18-14 08:15 AM

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43. "In all the months building up to the draft"
In response to Reply # 37


  

          

> but i think most ppl
>understand the excitement over his potential lies in the
>assumption he develops on a good team under the tutelage of
>bron. if wiggins goes to minny i think fans of basketball lose
>out overall

Nobody thought Wiggins would be playing with Lebron. It was assumed that he would be a very high pick, likely going to a bad team. Prior to a couple weeks ago, nobody thought Wiggins and Lebron would be playing together in 2014-15, and people were still high on Wiggins' prospects.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 08:27 AM

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47. "yea i'm talking about the excitement now"
In response to Reply # 43


  

          

which i think is at another level than it was pre bron
obviously if wiggins becomes a superstar in minny, then it's a clear win for them (probably is regardless) and even more question marks will be there if the cavs don't become champions multiple times

~~~~~~

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
16360 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 07:56 AM

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38. "Y'all think Kyrie taking a backseat to Love?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I can understand taking a backseat to Bron but Love? Nah. I think this is gonna be a problem unless Love is cool being the 3rd option.

****************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

"Dude just seems like he's been chosen for some reason. Maybe he did a backspin for Oprah or something." micMajestic

http://www.discogs.com/user/buhloone

  

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ThaTruth
Charter member
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Fri Jul-18-14 08:05 AM

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40. "Right, Love is going to be on Chris Bosh 3rd banana status and that's..."
In response to Reply # 38
Fri Jul-18-14 08:07 AM by ThaTruth

          

the thing, you can deal with a guy that's a defensive liability if he's giving you 25-30 points a night, when they're give you 15-18ppg and giving up 20+ on the other end then you start to wonder what the point is.

________________________________________
Watch For The Hook
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy9Fun9CuZ4

  

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southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 08:08 AM

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41. "he's more accomplished than kyrie and better offensively than bosh"
In response to Reply # 40


  

          

not sure it's really comparable to bosh joining wade and bron but maybe yall right
of course limiting love offensively diminishes his value so i'm leaning to him maintaining a healthy output

~~~~~~

  

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ThaTruth
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42. ""more accomplished" in what regard?"
In response to Reply # 41


          

________________________________________
Watch For The Hook
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy9Fun9CuZ4

  

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southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 08:20 AM

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45. "every?"
In response to Reply # 42


  

          

i mean if we're going with the whole bird in the hand shit
love is a better player than kyrie right now. even his defensive rating is better (lol)
this ain't kyrie team anymore folks, lol. it's brons. kyrie role will be whatever bron tells gilbert it will be. let's relax and see what this becomes before any assumptions get made

~~~~~~

  

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ThaTruth
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Fri Jul-18-14 08:53 AM

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52. "neither one has ever been to the playoffs so neither has accomplished..."
In response to Reply # 45


          

anything my eyes

________________________________________
Watch For The Hook
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy9Fun9CuZ4

  

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southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 08:59 AM

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54. "k"
In response to Reply # 52


  

          

~~~~~~

  

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guru0509
Charter member
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Fri Jul-18-14 08:04 AM

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39. "Lol, no brainer. Bird in the hand >>>> "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

-------------------
I wanna go to where the martyrs went
the brown figures on the walls of my apart-a-ment...

  

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Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
49458 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 08:29 AM

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48. "it's 13+ boards, man...and if they throw in dieng...you HAVE to do it"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

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vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
20388 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 08:42 AM

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49. "Ok, so would the Cavs be the fav to win it all if they got Love?"
In response to Reply # 48


  

          

I still say they wouldn't

and if they don't win it this upcoming season (or next) then the trade will prove not to be as ideal as ppl believe it will...and by adding Love, it will limit the Cavs to go out and sign players in the future


The chances of them coming out of the east would definitely increase adding Love...but they were picked as the team to come out of the east even w/o Love or at least one of the top 3 teams in the east

A lineup of...
G/Kyrie
G/Waiters
C/Varajeo
F/Love
F/Bron

Looks like a team that won't be very good defensively

grassrootsphilosopher

  

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Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
49458 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 08:52 AM

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51. "whatever. Cavs come out the East. "
In response to Reply # 49


  

          

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

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vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
20388 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 08:59 AM

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55. "And they can do that *without* Love lol but even w/Love I don't"
In response to Reply # 51


  

          

think they would be the favorites to win it all

Which a trade like that should mean - a title right away

grassrootsphilosopher

  

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ThaTruth
Charter member
91220 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 09:07 AM

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57. "lol, Kyrie didn't want to share the ball with Waiters and now he's gotta..."
In response to Reply # 49


          

share it Waiters, Bron, AND Love? People really think he's going to play the 3rd banana role behind Love? Do people realize how big that kid's ego is?

>A lineup of...
>G/Kyrie
>G/Waiters
>C/Varajeo
>F/Love
>F/Bron
>
>Looks like a team that won't be very good defensively

and lol@ all these people talking about Varajeo as a starter. He's averaged less than 30 starts a season for his entire 10 year NBA career now all of a sudden people think he's going to start all 82? or even half that?

________________________________________
Watch For The Hook
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy9Fun9CuZ4

  

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Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
49458 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 09:19 AM

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66. "no...WAITERS gonna have to share the ball. Kyrie will be fine. "
In response to Reply # 57


  

          

Kyrie gonna handle the ball no matter what and he knows how to get open without it. hte idea of waiters being a 4th option is comedy, because i know enough of that dude now. he gotta go. that's a disaster waiting to happen.

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

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ThaTruth
Charter member
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Fri Jul-18-14 09:33 AM

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78. "I basically agree with you about Kyrie which is why I think Love is goin..."
In response to Reply # 66


          

to be the 3rd option so if he's giving you 15-18ppg instead of 25 is he really worth it?

________________________________________
Watch For The Hook
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy9Fun9CuZ4

  

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Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
49458 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 10:02 AM

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101. "it's more about his skills than his stats..."
In response to Reply # 78
Fri Jul-18-14 10:02 AM by Basaglia

  

          

elite rebounder - which prevents second opportunities on one end and creates them on the other.

can hit from outside - opening lanes for lebron and kyrie

one of the best passing bigs.

great in pick and roll - clutchtime execution and lots of scoring options, whether he runs it with lebron and kyrie spots up or vice versa.

he damn sure ain't gettin 25 with bron and kyrie, but his rebounding might even increase. 18 and 15 would be just fine.

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

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ThaTruth
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Fri Jul-18-14 10:20 AM

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118. "I don't know, playing with 2 penetrators like Lebron and Kryie, Love..."
In response to Reply # 101


          

might be forced to become even more perimeter-oriented in Cleveland, moving his game away from the basket is going to affect his rebounding numbers. You already see him trending that way in Minnesota.

Look Bosh's rebound numbers in Miami. Its not like he forgot how to rebound all of a sudden. He had to move his game away from the basket to accommodate Wade and Lebron.

________________________________________
Watch For The Hook
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy9Fun9CuZ4

  

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Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
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Fri Jul-18-14 10:29 AM

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128. "he's been perimeter oriented. he's worked on improving range every year"
In response to Reply # 118


  

          

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

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ThaTruth
Charter member
91220 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 10:34 AM

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130. "right, and his rebounding numbers are going in the opposite direction"
In response to Reply # 128


          

________________________________________
Watch For The Hook
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy9Fun9CuZ4

  

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Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
49458 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 10:52 AM

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132. "not really...there's not legit correlation there"
In response to Reply # 130


  

          

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
11335 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 09:09 AM

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59. "nah, they're still behind the Spurs"
In response to Reply # 49


  

          

and probably a couple other Western teams, but they'd definitely be favorites in the East now that the Pacers lost Lance.

  

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ThaTruth
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Fri Jul-18-14 09:25 AM

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73. "that's thing, people are acting Love = automatic title when that ain't....."
In response to Reply # 59


          

the case, so what's the point of shitcanning your future for 1 or 2 eastern conference titles?

After 2 years of not winning a title with Love and Bron, Love and Kyrie's contracts on the books with little room to add anything else Lebron is going to bounce again. Hell it may happen after year 1 if he sees the writing on the wall.

________________________________________
Watch For The Hook
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy9Fun9CuZ4

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
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Fri Jul-18-14 09:34 AM

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80. "i don't think people are acting like that"
In response to Reply # 73
Fri Jul-18-14 09:43 AM by pretentious username

  

          

but he obviously gets them closer to a title in the immediate future. it's a star big man joining Bron, why wouldn't people be getting excited about that?

we also don't know what Love and Kyrie's next contracts will look like, or the salary cap in a couple years for that matter, so I wouldn't jump to any conclusions about money

edit: just to be clear, I don't think this trade is a good idea, but there is logic behind it.

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71313 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 09:15 AM

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62. "To win it all? We don't know yet. To win the East? YES."
In response to Reply # 49


  

          

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 09:23 AM

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71. "nah. which undermines the biggest part of the pro-Love argument"
In response to Reply # 49


  

          

build a win now team......that likely wouldn't win now
yaye?

~~~~~~

  

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ThaTruth
Charter member
91220 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 09:34 AM

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79. "my point exactly, lol"
In response to Reply # 71


          

>build a win now team......that likely wouldn't win now
>yaye?
>

________________________________________
Watch For The Hook
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy9Fun9CuZ4

  

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vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
20388 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 09:34 AM

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81. "^^Egg zacklee.....if they (meaning Bron/front office) think by adding"
In response to Reply # 71


  

          

love this puts them over the top then go out and roll the dice

But

IMO that team still wouldn't be the favorites to win it all...and could they even beat a *healthy* Rose-led team?


>build a win now team......that likely wouldn't win now
>yaye?
>

grassrootsphilosopher

  

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Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
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87. "rose got locked up by bron when he was an uncut 100%...FOH!"
In response to Reply # 81


  

          

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

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ThaTruth
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91. "yeah I think Indy is still a bigger threat even without Stephens..."
In response to Reply # 87


          

PG can play Lebron to a draw, I think West and Hibbert would feast on Love and Varejao inside.

________________________________________
Watch For The Hook
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy9Fun9CuZ4

  

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southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
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90. "ain't nobody scared of rose or the buLLs"
In response to Reply # 81


  

          


>IMO that team still wouldn't be the favorites to win it
>all...and could they even beat a *healthy* Rose-led team?


with Love though this shit is title or bust for Bron
and with the jordan stans looking for any leverage in postponing bron legacy eclipsing jorn...bron can't really afford any more finals Ls

~~~~~~

  

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Lach
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94. "that assumes that Wiggins turns out to be great instead of Larry Hughes"
In response to Reply # 71


  

          

Lebron is worried he'll be Larry Hughes. I'd be worried about that too.

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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258. "He will be better than Larry Hughes but the people thinking ..."
In response to Reply # 94


  

          

blue-chip superstar? I dunno. I think he will be a player similar to Eddie Jones or Shawn Marion in terms of his star quality/impact. That's a very good player, but not a generational talent.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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170. "lol, how is it not likely to win now?"
In response to Reply # 71


  

          

with love, they are heavy favorites in the east. reaching the finals is the first step to winning the title. would they need to shore up defensively? yes. can they attract players with this group? absolutely.

you don't not acquire a star because you don't have the role players in place. that's especially true when the outgoing players don't fill those roles either. this is just about the dumbest fucking argument i have ever heard, and that is saying something.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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auragin_boi
Member since Aug 01st 2003
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Fri Jul-18-14 08:55 AM

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53. "^^^This I agree with"
In response to Reply # 48
Fri Jul-18-14 09:00 AM by auragin_boi

  

          

If Dieng is included...bye wiggy!

Otherwise I'd have reservations. Especially when they could probably get a more affordable option with Marz' package B suggestion. Denver would eat that deal alive.

Either way the team will be good but I don't think love will answer the issues those in favor of the trade are minimizing.

First time they're in a close playoff game, Kyrie gets beat off the Dibble and love doesn't rotate fast enough, shit will get real and you'll see that 'disgust' face from Bron. Now, a team that had locker room issues takes on a guy who's had issues with his front office and has a rep as being a dick to teammates. If things go sour, which would me anything less than conf finals this year, finals next year, then what? Because the expectations will rise with love. At least a year or 2 was expected with Wiggins. If it's gonna be the same span of time to it, I'd take my chances on Wiggins.

I wonder if this was a 19 year old Lebron, would people so feel the same. Because hindsight is a bitch. Players shouldn't GM. GM's should and if you can get a deal that satisfies your needs not including Wiggins, I'd do that first.

And let's not forget, this is the Cavs front office we are talking about not Miami's.

____________
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southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
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60. "where is this dieng rumor coming from?"
In response to Reply # 53


  

          

i saw someone mention it in a thread and now cats running with it
i guess broussard sources worth bout as much as a reply in a thread but most what i'm seeing is wiggins and waiter||bennett and some firsts for love and some kibble and bits
if they get dieng then yea you do that shit since it addresses the cavs main deficiency

~~~~~~

  

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ConcreteCharlie
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70. "He's a piece that is in play and has the kind of contract that fits"
In response to Reply # 60
Fri Jul-18-14 09:23 AM by ConcreteCharlie

  

          

Even if they don't get him, you don't think a similar player could become available? The bottom line is that you're not getting Love in free agency or the draft or a minor trade. You could get a banger through any of those avenues.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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southphillyman
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75. "cavs pursuing this shit more than the wolves at this point"
In response to Reply # 70


  

          

really the wolves have played this whole thing brilliantly by being patient and bluffing like they don't have to move love
cavs done already reneged on the wiggins part of the deal
dieng not being included ain't going block it at this point
would be nice if they got him though

~~~~~~

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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142. "rightfully so because the wolves can find another suitor for love wherea..."
In response to Reply # 75


  

          

cleveland cannot find another player his caliber.

the idea that cleveland had all the leverage was ridiculous. i do not think minnesota has *all* the leverage, especially as time passes, but they have slightly more.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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Marauder21
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82. "I haven't seen him mentioned outside of this board"
In response to Reply # 60


  

          

It's possible he's in play, but are any other outlets reporting this? Is this the Sports equivalent of some weird True Detective fan theory?

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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ThaTruth
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86. "its some "only on OKS" shit, lol"
In response to Reply # 82


          

________________________________________
Watch For The Hook
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy9Fun9CuZ4

  

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southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
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88. "yikes lmao"
In response to Reply # 82


  

          

> Is this the Sports equivalent of some weird
>True Detective fan theory?

as a bron fan i hope dude is included
just seemed like ppl were pulling a name out of their ass since the rumored pieces would leave the cavs with some holes

~~~~~~

  

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Basaglia
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108. "it's on twitter, where all the rumors are"
In response to Reply # 82


  

          

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

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TheRealBillyOcean
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61. "Wait they're talking about Dieng too?"
In response to Reply # 48


  

          

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

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Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
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69. "yes...that's why nothing's done. cavs want more for wiggins. "
In response to Reply # 61


  

          

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

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TheRealBillyOcean
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77. "That changes everything for me. Love PLUS Dieng for Wiggins..."
In response to Reply # 69


  

          

and Cavs undesirables is a solid deal. To the point where the Wolves will be pretty stupid to do it and not ask for Bennett too.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

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Marauder21
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83. "I agree with this"
In response to Reply # 77


  

          

>To the point where the
>Wolves will be pretty stupid to do it and not ask for Bennett
>too.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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TheRealBillyOcean
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115. "Yeah, there's no reason you should give up your best player and..."
In response to Reply # 83


  

          

best young player during the 2nd year of his rookie deal just for Wiggins and a bunch of guys the Cavs probably don't want anyway, because they've essentially drafted over them already.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

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ThaTruth
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84. "the thing is, there's no urgency for Minnesota, they can drag this out....."
In response to Reply # 77


          

until the trade deadline which they probably will

________________________________________
Watch For The Hook
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy9Fun9CuZ4

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
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93. "a half season rental vs. full season might hurt his trade value"
In response to Reply # 84
Fri Jul-18-14 09:50 AM by pretentious username

  

          

but it depends on how desperate the team getting him is too. they're not in a good position right now. if they can get wiggins they should jump at the chance.

  

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ThaTruth
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123. "Nobody is going to trade major assets for Love without him signing a new..."
In response to Reply # 93


          

contract and he WANTS that sign and trade so he can get the max money

________________________________________
Watch For The Hook
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy9Fun9CuZ4

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
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Fri Jul-18-14 11:15 AM

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139. "if he doesn't want to, and they're desperate enough, they will."
In response to Reply # 123


  

          

  

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Frank Longo
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Fri Jul-18-14 11:01 AM

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134. "Agreed. He solves a huge need for the Cavs going forward."
In response to Reply # 77


  

          

I'd be okay with that deal too if Dieng is involved.

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

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LA2Philly
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137. "Minny would be really silly to include Dieng "
In response to Reply # 77
Fri Jul-18-14 11:08 AM by LA2Philly

  

          

He has a very unique skillset and is clearly improving. Love + Dieng would be highway robbery imo.

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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LAbeathustla
Member since Jan 24th 2004
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Fri Jul-18-14 09:06 AM

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56. "you niggers are acting like wig got a hummer in hs"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

fuck outta here.. that nigga gone.. and still gotta
prove himself

------------------------------------
2019 CABG Survivor

2016 OK Survivor Champion

be about it or be without it

RIP GOATs

  

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southphillyman
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58. "lol"
In response to Reply # 56


  

          

~~~~~~

  

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Lach
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95. "ha "
In response to Reply # 56


  

          

  

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Cenario
Member since Aug 24th 2005
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147. "lol"
In response to Reply # 56


  

          

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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216. ""the best draft prospect in years", apparently."
In response to Reply # 56


  

          

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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LegacyNS
Member since Jan 16th 2004
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Mon Jul-21-14 09:21 AM

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246. "dyin.. lol"
In response to Reply # 56


  

          


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- 5....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlgiritpmfo

=======================================

Ditch the paper, save the trees, and go mobile! Text bizcard to 32462!

  

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jdevolve1
Member since Mar 04th 2003
4228 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 09:27 AM

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74. "Why would they have to do this right now?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

If Love wants to play with Bron (and vice versa) as bad as we think he does, why won't the Cavs just be patient and wait til to scoop him up in Free Agency next year? I get it, Wiggins is a "prospect" but for arguments sake lets say he lives up to his hype/potential? Why make that trade right now to "maybe" win something this year? If I'm the Cavs, I chill and take my relative "lumps" this year and go after Love next year.

  

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My_SP1200_Broken_Again
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Fri Jul-18-14 09:29 AM

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76. "learn from the Knicks mistakes with Melo..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
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Fri Jul-18-14 09:40 AM

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85. "It's a NO for me. I think Wiggins is the real deal. CLE will regret"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

trading him

4-5 years from now, when Bron is looking at retirement, or at least slowing down a bit

Wiggins will just be hitting his stride and looking to take the reigns

CLE w/Love and Irving and no Bron = MIN

I'm not a big Love fan

comparison to Bosh aside, he did take TOR to the offs and a division title

Love can't even get MIN to a winning record

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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Y2Flound
Member since Aug 16th 2005
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Fri Jul-18-14 09:48 AM

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89. "But if they win 2 titles in that time before he gets old and retires..."
In response to Reply # 85


  

          

Isn't that worth it?

Especially given how many #1 picks don't become great.

  

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Lach
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96. "I'm sayin. People talking 5 years from now as if Lebron is 25"
In response to Reply # 89


  

          

  

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LegacyNS
Member since Jan 16th 2004
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Fri Jul-18-14 10:21 AM

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121. "dude is 30 & Kawhi was eating his lunch the last 3 games of the finals"
In response to Reply # 96
Fri Jul-18-14 10:22 AM by LegacyNS

  

          

Bron has maybe 2 or 3 year to remain physically dominant over the rest of the league and that clock has already started ticking..

Plus Cleveland has a 2 year lease. You gotta go for it now.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- 5....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlgiritpmfo

=======================================

Ditch the paper, save the trees, and go mobile! Text bizcard to 32462!

  

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vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
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Fri Jul-18-14 10:43 AM

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131. "And some of that (imo) was fatigue from having to guard Kawhi"
In response to Reply # 121


  

          

one mintue, Danny Green the next then TP and then throw in Diaw and occasionally, Duncan

He looked worn down to me...particularly on the defensive side

Which is why at this point in his career he needs another young stud on D taking some of the pressure of having to always guard the other team's best player or hot hand...

Do what Pip eventually started to do for MJ when MJ hit his 30s...

I see him burdened on D if they trade Wiggins for Love because Kyrie/Love/Waiters and whoever else aren't any good on that end of the floor...and Bron gin be saddled once again w/having to do too much (on defense) to cover up the team's weaknesses.

>Bron has maybe 2 or 3 year to remain physically dominant over
>the rest of the league and that clock has already started
>ticking..
>
>Plus Cleveland has a 2 year lease. You gotta go for it now.
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
><---- 5....
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlgiritpmfo
>
>=======================================
>
>Ditch the paper, save the trees, and go mobile! Text bizcard
>to 32462!

grassrootsphilosopher

  

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LegacyNS
Member since Jan 16th 2004
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Fri Jul-18-14 01:41 PM

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182. "it was the overall load on Bron which at 23 wouldn't have been an issue"
In response to Reply # 131


  

          

but at 30 after 4 str8 NBA finals trips the wear is starting to show. Bron is still in his prime but he's also 30, not 23..


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- 5....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlgiritpmfo

=======================================

Ditch the paper, save the trees, and go mobile! Text bizcard to 32462!

  

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ThaTruth
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97. "that's thing, most people think that even with Love it won't be enough....."
In response to Reply # 89


          

to beat the better teams out west in the finals so what's the point?

________________________________________
Watch For The Hook
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy9Fun9CuZ4

  

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Lach
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99. "Like they thought past prime KG/Ray Allen/Pierce wasn't enough"
In response to Reply # 97


  

          

Man make the deal.

  

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ThaTruth
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105. "lol, KG was still in his prime when he came to Boston, I remember most....."
In response to Reply # 99


          

of the questions about that team going in were about Rondo and whether he was ready to run a championship team

________________________________________
Watch For The Hook
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy9Fun9CuZ4

  

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FILF
Member since Jun 01st 2007
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Fri Jul-18-14 03:27 PM

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199. "Idiot, they said Pierce/KG wasn't enough (sans Ray)"
In response to Reply # 99


  

          

KG didn't sign off until Ray signed off.

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
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Fri Jul-18-14 09:56 AM

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100. "Do you trade Wiggins for an IF, I guess is what you're asking"
In response to Reply # 89
Fri Jul-18-14 09:58 AM by bentagain

  

          

and that's where I'm a no

As someone posted above

this is a unique, and ideal situation for a #1 pick

having Bron in CLE is going to make the game alot easier for Wiggins

he's not coming to CLE and being asked to carry the team

his role is much more defined

and from what I've seen

I think he'll thrive

everything else with Love is an ?

I wouldn't trade Wiggins for a ?

what makes you think they can't win a chip without Love?

Bron carried a hobbled Wade (and Bosh for those that don't remember) to 4 straight finals and back to back chips

I don't see any reason to not expect chips in CLE w/Wiggins, IMO.

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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Y2Flound
Member since Aug 16th 2005
9819 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 10:03 AM

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102. "How is Love a ? and Wiggins not?"
In response to Reply # 100


  

          

We've seen him play 0 pro games....0

And you're telling me a mutiple all star double double machine is a ?

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
15087 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 10:10 AM

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109. "RE: How is Love a ? and Wiggins not?"
In response to Reply # 102
Fri Jul-18-14 10:20 AM by bentagain

  

          

just my opinion is all

as I said, IMO, I think he's the real deal

base, we're talking about trading for a complimentary player to run with Bron

IMO, Wiggins not only has the ability to play that role early in his career

and still have CLE in title contention

but also has the possiblity of becoming the franchise player when Bron slows down

and still have CLE in title contention

I don't see that with Love

all I see is a complimentary player to run with Bron

if he's asked to be more, CLE = MIN.

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
23113 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 10:21 AM

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122. "RE: Do you trade Wiggins for an IF, I guess is what you're asking"
In response to Reply # 100


          



U got that backwards, homie....

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
15087 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 11:18 AM

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140. "Suprised with all the LAL fans on here that nobody's made the Showtime"
In response to Reply # 122


  

          

analogy

2 #1 overall picks + a GOAT player

I would rather have that.

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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Y2Flound
Member since Aug 16th 2005
9819 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 02:37 PM

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193. "Remember when the sixers had 3 #1 picks and sucked"
In response to Reply # 140


  

          

#1 picks work sometimes, don't work other times

A #1 pick is always a risk, no matter how great you think someone may be.

Could Wiggins become an all time great and help Cleveland in 5 years? Yes, but he also could be a total bust

Will Love joining Cleveland get them to the NBA finals where anything can happen multiple times at least? That's pretty much the minimum for the Love trade is a few finals appearances.

If you were doing something based on the best risk/success ratio you're going with Love, even if the ultimate ceiling may be lower. It's fine if you don't want to play the safer route, but you're talking like Wiggins is a sure thing and Love is a bust.

  

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southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 02:42 PM

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194. "AI, Chris webber and who else?"
In response to Reply # 193


  

          

unless you mean one of those early 80s team
but i don't think anyone would say they sucked

~~~~~~

  

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Y2Flound
Member since Aug 16th 2005
9819 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 04:51 PM

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205. "I think it was Smith, Coleman and AI"
In response to Reply # 194


  

          

Point is being a #1 pick doesnt promise anything

  

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Lach
Charter member
43798 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 09:54 AM

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98. "If Danny Ainge was Cleveland's GM, Love would already be in Cleveland"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

If Riley, RC, Phil Jackson, etc was the GM, Love would already be in Cleveland.

  

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southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 10:04 AM

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104. "oh no doubt ainge living off that 1 chip for a minute"
In response to Reply # 98


  

          

meanwhile big al just won 3rd team all nba and is still in his prime
and the celtics throwing up more tanks than no limit in '96
but that chip got ainge that good joe dumars life span
he good

~~~~~~

  

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ThaTruth
Charter member
91220 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 10:07 AM

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107. "Right, I said in another post Ainge's best move as a GM was actually..."
In response to Reply # 104


          

a favor from his boy McHale

________________________________________
Watch For The Hook
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy9Fun9CuZ4

  

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Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
49458 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 10:12 AM

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112. "they won a title and went to the finals another time...just stop"
In response to Reply # 104
Fri Jul-18-14 10:14 AM by Basaglia

  

          

whatchu think teams play for? you think ainge giving up his ring and exec of the year award to get that eggplant nose nigga back? nobody in boston care about no damn al jefferson.

a title buys a GM or coach a DECADE. ainge did his job.

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

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southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 10:15 AM

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114. "could have just said "cosign""
In response to Reply # 112


  

          

~~~~~~

  

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Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
49458 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 10:20 AM

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119. "true"
In response to Reply # 114


  

          

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

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Cenario
Member since Aug 24th 2005
56980 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 12:07 PM

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148. "lol"
In response to Reply # 119


  

          

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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Lach
Charter member
43798 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 05:39 PM

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"LMFAO"


  

          

>whatchu think teams play for? you think ainge giving up his
>ring and exec of the year award to get that eggplant nose
>nigga back?

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71313 posts
Mon Jul-21-14 05:55 PM

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257. "Uh, they also were within one game of a second title"
In response to Reply # 104


  

          

And also within a game of the finals the following year.

Yeah, that experiment was really lamentable.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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Oak27
Member since Apr 17th 2005
12401 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 10:06 AM

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106. "And yet Danny Ainge is Boston's GM..."
In response to Reply # 98


          

...and there's no fucking way Kevin Love ends up there...

  

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southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 10:11 AM

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110. "lol"
In response to Reply # 106


  

          

~~~~~~

  

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ThaTruth
Charter member
91220 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 10:12 AM

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111. "right, lol"
In response to Reply # 106


          

________________________________________
Watch For The Hook
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy9Fun9CuZ4

  

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TheRealBillyOcean
Charter member
38054 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 10:21 AM

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120. "They haven't been lucky to tank & Danny Ocean the lottery 5 yrs in a row"
In response to Reply # 106


  

          

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

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Oak27
Member since Apr 17th 2005
12401 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 10:25 AM

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124. "But but but but they have Fenway Park and an Ortiz Boston-cosign!"
In response to Reply # 120


          

  

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MothershipConnection
Member since Nov 22nd 2003
7498 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 11:56 AM

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144. "KG was the best defensive player in the game when they won"
In response to Reply # 98


  

          

Honestly do you think that if you put 2013 Kevin Love with 2008 Paul Pierce and 2008 Ray Allen that they'd be the favorite to win a title? Or would that team give up 110 points per game?

  

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Lach
Charter member
43798 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 05:38 PM

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210. "Of course not but you're putting Love next to THE best player in the gam..."
In response to Reply # 144


  

          

in Lebron and with a PG who may end up being a top 5 PG.

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71313 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 01:24 PM

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171. "most likely, but i do think this will get done eventually"
In response to Reply # 98


  

          

ultimately bron holds the cards here and what do you think he wants?

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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PIMPINCHICAGO
Member since Mar 11th 2003
7441 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 10:04 AM

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103. "no...Cavs have all of the leverage."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Love doesn't have to sign an extension so even if he is traded he can still be a FA after this season.

Minnesota is trying to get what they can, but that doesn't mean Cleveland should jump on that now when they can just move Varejao this off season and some other contracts and trim the roster to just add him as a free agent.



I hope Cleveland is Cleveland and trades him though.

My Bulls can handle a jumpshooting PF easy.

  

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John Forte
Member since Feb 22nd 2013
15304 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 10:15 AM

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113. "You HAVE TO roll the dice with Wiggins"
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Jul-18-14 10:40 AM by John Forte

          

He's probably going to be a disruptive defender right off the bat, and has the potential to develop into a superstar (the kind that leads his team to the 'offs, not the kind who puts up great numbers without winning). His rookie deal gives you the cap flexibility to fill out the roster with quality players.

Also, Love is still going to be around if Wiggins doesn't pan out, either via mid-season trade or free-agency next year.

  

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southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 10:18 AM

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117. "no you don't"
In response to Reply # 113


  

          

if you're dan gilbert
you have to do what lebron instructs you to do
just like he did when he got bi