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naame
Charter member
21008 posts
Wed Nov-12-03 04:55 AM

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"so howard dean is"


  

          

beginning a conversation amongst white people that should have begun long ago about white labor having the same problems as black labor. While black folk may have recognized this long long, long long time ago (c) bernie mac, *some* white people are just starting to make that conversation. the thing is, dean is doing it now just to get more votes to get into office.
it does not seem that he plans on bridging any racial gap once he getst into office by bringing in the confederate flag white boy and the black folk together. if he does he's not having a good plan set about. i don't see any real headway being made in giving black folk a say in his campaign, i see he passed up going to clark atlanta to spend the day at georgia state.

i see nothing in his plan for agriculture on the black farmer. if you want to talk about connecting the rural white laborer and the rural black laborer it would be beneficial to mention what you plan on doing to correct the wrongs being committed against African Americans in the US Department of Agriculture.

http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/PageServer?pagename=policy_statement_agriculture

here's the website. check how jesse jackson jr. endorsed him at the bottom.

and while we're on the subject of white people saying shit for selfish reasons, check the sig.




Nowadays silence is looked on as odd and most of my race has forgotten the beauty of meaning much by saying little."

-- From Toni Morrison's new book, "Love"

--------------------------
There are at least 5 definable points in the black political spectrum that can readily be said to have a vast constituency within black populace, which are simultaneously operative on virtually all political issues affecting blacks.

1. The Traditional Integrationist: NAACP, NAACP legal defense fund, National Urban League. It is this portion of the black political spectrum that has been most recognized and responded to by whites and by predominantly white institutions. The RESULTS of integrationist litigation are more real, more institutional and have a more concrete impact on daily reality than the many fledgling programs and new theories of other poles.


I'm tired of getting the sense of this from negroes
1. the white man's ice is colder.
2. the white man's sugar is sweeter.
3. the white man's heaven is closer
4. the white man's machines are more efficient
5. the white man's atm's always work.
6. the white man's fashion is much more stylish.
7. the white man's english is perfect
8. the white man's name is more powerful and gives greater status
9. the white man's vote is more important
10. the black man ain't shit.
11. the white man's government is less corrupt.
12. the white man's woman is cuter.
13. the white man's mind is more intelligent
14. if i attain status from the white man than i have attain power over all men.
15. the white man's job pays on time.
16. the white man's business is fortune 500
17. the white man earned his power.
18. the white man's transportation is so much faster!
19. the white man's cities are clean.
20. where the white man lives, property values are higher.
21. Black poverty brings crime.

22. When the black man loves, it's painful. when the white man loves, it's easier to take the pain.
23. White folk communicate so much better!
24. Why get my own when i can get it from the white man?
25. Why support the black business when I can go to walmart?
26. Mexicans are hurting the black man's chance at getting a job.
27. Everyone else works hard but the black man.

America has imported more warlord theocracy from Afghanistan than it has exported democracy.

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
his energy plan
Nov 12th 2003
1
i'm talking about the everyday black laborer
Nov 12th 2003
4
RE: so howard dean is
Nov 12th 2003
2
so why should i be o.k. with him saying democrats
Nov 12th 2003
3
      b/c they are a legitimate demographic
Nov 12th 2003
5
      emil i'm asking where in the plan
Nov 12th 2003
8
      RE: b/c they are a legitimate demographic
Nov 12th 2003
9
      Sounds corny but.....
Nov 12th 2003
6
      i'm saying it implies that the black worker will be
Nov 12th 2003
7
           Niggas don't vote!
Nov 12th 2003
10
                neither do latinos but they ain't being left out the co
Nov 12th 2003
11
                     niggas do vote though
Nov 12th 2003
12
                          RE: niggas do vote though
Nov 12th 2003
13
                               the thing is most white people don't vote neither
Nov 12th 2003
14
                               RE: the thing is most white people don't vote neither
Nov 12th 2003
15
                               RE: the thing is most white people don't vote neither
Nov 12th 2003
17
                               RE: Hold up a second
Nov 13th 2003
42
      RE: so why should i be o.k. with him saying democrats
Nov 12th 2003
16
           i need to see something written. some plan all this
Nov 12th 2003
18
                RE: i need to see something written. some plan all thi
Nov 12th 2003
19
                     Naame
Nov 12th 2003
20
                          what does this have to do with anything?
Nov 12th 2003
23
JUST DAMNED !
Nov 12th 2003
21
don't attack me, i'm just presenting an idea.
Nov 12th 2003
22
      RE: don't attack me, i'm just presenting an idea.
Nov 12th 2003
24
           RE: don't attack me, i'm just presenting an idea.
Nov 12th 2003
25
           let me put it this way
Nov 12th 2003
26
                RE: let me put it this way
Nov 13th 2003
50
RE: so howard dean is saying what people knew all along
Nov 12th 2003
27
Howard Dean's Student Loans/Financial Aid Plan
Nov 13th 2003
28
      don't be so quick to jump the gun...
Nov 13th 2003
29
      RE: don't be so quick to jump the gun...
Nov 13th 2003
30
           RE: don't be so quick to jump the gun...
Nov 13th 2003
31
           cali is cool...
Nov 13th 2003
34
           once again: "don't be so quick to jump the gun..."
Nov 13th 2003
33
                RE: once again: "don't be so quick to jump the gun..."
Nov 13th 2003
36
                     RE: once again: "don't be so quick to jump the gun..."
Nov 13th 2003
43
                          RE: once again: "don't be so quick to jump the gun..."
Nov 13th 2003
48
      RE: well, i live in ca
Nov 13th 2003
32
      RE: well, i live in ca
Nov 13th 2003
35
           because they lazy!
Nov 13th 2003
38
           RE: yeah, that is mostly bullshit
Nov 13th 2003
41
      i think you are avoiding my point
Nov 13th 2003
37
           man u focusing on that lil shit...
Nov 13th 2003
39
           that's your choice
Nov 13th 2003
44
                again
Nov 13th 2003
45
                     u stay on them biofuels...
Nov 13th 2003
46
                     makes perfect sense
Nov 14th 2003
53
                     u got the point on dean.
Nov 13th 2003
47
                     RE: u got the point on dean.
Nov 13th 2003
49
                     so we need to pressure dean and the other candidates
Nov 15th 2003
54
           and his so called "conversation" on race.
Nov 13th 2003
40
                RE: and his so called "conversation" on race.
Nov 13th 2003
51
                     are you insinuating that i'll vote for al sharpton?
Nov 13th 2003
52

emil
Charter member
10566 posts
Wed Nov-12-03 08:35 AM

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1. "his energy plan"
In response to Reply # 0


          

is more pronounced than the others.
healthcare, ideas on economy and jobs.

lesser of about 50 evils in my book.

energy/oil/global warming/ecological issues to me, are much more important than anything else combined, simply b/c coming from a scientific standpoint you realize that without air or water or energy, all the others would cease to exist.

not to say the issue about black farmers isnt important b/c we are them. personally haven't seen any foul action from the usda but i know it occurs to others. just build a biodiesel infrastructure to use all this excess soybean/peanut oil, clean up the air at the same time we reduce foreign energy dependency (and i could make my own fuel) and create rural jobs at teh same time. guerrilla energy. same with solar cells, hydropower, and wind. then i'll worry about the other things.

  

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naame
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21008 posts
Wed Nov-12-03 09:12 AM

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4. "i'm talking about the everyday black laborer"
In response to Reply # 1
Wed Nov-12-03 09:14 AM

  

          

if that's who he's appealing to in order to begin this conversation it might help to include a lil help on how you plan on helping out. otherwise you are just trying to get us to go along with you for the election and not shit is going to happen once you get elected and you aren't going to do or say anything even if you don't get elected. he doesn't care about us at all.
---------------------------------
this is the current state of the claims laid out. from my standpoint these claims need to be handled quicker and obviously i want a higher success rate on our claim being accepted. the main reason i want it sped up is because many of these farmers are older than 60 and may not be able to even reap the benefits of the money being given.

Track A Claims:

To date, of the 21,982 claimants who have proceeded under Track A, USDA has submitted its responses on 21,782 cases to the Adjudicator. Of these, the Adjudicator has decided 21,590 cases so far:



13,110 cases (60.7 percent) have been upheld -- decided in favor of the claimant.



8,480 cases (39.3 percent) have been denied.



Once the Adjudicator has notified USDA of an approved decision, USDA has 120 days to file a petition seeking Monitor review of the decision. On the approved decisions for which USDA does not seek Monitor review, USDA implements the debt relief ordered by the Adjudicator. USDA has no control over claim decisions and does not issue the check.



As of July 9, 2003, the Facilitator has mailed $50,000 each in settlement to 12,831 claimants. This totals over $641 million.



Loans Forgiven:



As of July 9, 2003, USDA has discharged open debt on loans in the amount of $18,453,280. USDA has also returned $206,227 to others who had offsets taken to service delinquent accounts.



Track B:



USDA has obtained the following Track B statistics. Of the 237 claims originally forwarded for consideration under Track B, 55 cases switched to Track A with the concurrence of the Department of Justice. Of approximately 182 claims that went forward under Track B, 36 have been dismissed by the Arbitrator prior to hearing, and 6 claimants withdrew their claims. There have been 71 Track B settlements, with resulting payments to claimants totaling $7,226,780. There are 32 cases pending. Of those cases that have gone to a hearing and have been adjudicated:



The claimant prevailed in 16 cases. The total amount awarded to prevailing claimants was just under $5,507,028. The Department of Justice has sought review or may seek review in a majority of those cases.



In 21 cases, the claimant did not prevail.

America has imported more warlord theocracy from Afghanistan than it has exported democracy.

  

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mansface
Member since May 08th 2003
270 posts
Wed Nov-12-03 08:46 AM

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2. "RE: so howard dean is"
In response to Reply # 0


          

>dean is doing it now just to get
>more votes to get into office.

That can and will be said of every politician past, present and future, whether it is true or not. You just have to hope that even if he is saying shit for votes that he follows through on it. It's the job of every politician to "say shit to get votes".

  

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naame
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21008 posts
Wed Nov-12-03 09:05 AM

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3. "so why should i be o.k. with him saying democrats"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

need to appeal to the confederate voter?

America has imported more warlord theocracy from Afghanistan than it has exported democracy.

  

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emil
Charter member
10566 posts
Wed Nov-12-03 09:13 AM

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5. "b/c they are a legitimate demographic"
In response to Reply # 3


          

with real concerns and real spending power, not to mention voting #s and influence on their families & friends.

and as i've said before, i've been treated better by southern redneck republican white boys with skoal teeth and mgd stains and confederate flags in their trucks than by some black people. i personally haven't a problem with many of those i've met.

  

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naame
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21008 posts
Wed Nov-12-03 09:33 AM

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8. "emil i'm asking where in the plan"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

does the black family farmer come into account? i see all of these initiatives for immigrants, for the family farmer, etc., but i don't see anything in terms of how to right the economic and labor issues committed against african americans. If all these changes are going to take place, will you help the african american or are we just going to be voting for him cause his shit sounds good.

let me see it in writing. if we gon have the conversation, i wanna see some incentives coming my peoples way. i don't see that. all i see is talk that may go straight to dairy farmers in vermont and confederate flag rebels in the south. regardless of how they treat you.

America has imported more warlord theocracy from Afghanistan than it has exported democracy.

  

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deejboram
Member since Sep 27th 2002
25755 posts
Wed Nov-12-03 10:13 AM

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9. "RE: b/c they are a legitimate demographic"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

the dude that paid me the most in alabama was one.
$10 / hr
i got TWO raises in ONE week and he retroactivated that shit to the 2 weeks prior so i had a FAT check!

them rednecks will let you know which ones you can and caint fuck with!

i had a redneck "confederate/militia" type dude fix the tranny on my car.
not only did dude do a *superb* job he also was giving me extra lil tidbits.
and when i went to go pick it up he taught me how to make a bomb outta: mr. bubble, dry ice, rock salt and a styrofoam ice chest.
then me and my boy got to shoot his rifle with night scope and homemade silencer.
dude had a straight up arsenal in his pad.

****
pink toes: http://i.imgur.com/WN7DPL1

  

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mansface
Member since May 08th 2003
270 posts
Wed Nov-12-03 09:17 AM

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6. "Sounds corny but....."
In response to Reply # 3


          

he needs to be the president of the whole country, not just the parts that he likes.

Wanting to appeal to white southern voters on economic and employment issues doesn't imply that he agrees with them on everything.

  

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naame
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21008 posts
Wed Nov-12-03 09:22 AM

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7. "i'm saying it implies that the black worker will be"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

left in the dust.

going after the rural white voter for the sake of doing so is beneficial to him. sure. i'm saying it's not beneficial to the african american because Dean does not have a plan to distribute resources to african americans, he is saying we will change things, but gives no sense of how it will change for african americans.

America has imported more warlord theocracy from Afghanistan than it has exported democracy.

  

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deejboram
Member since Sep 27th 2002
25755 posts
Wed Nov-12-03 10:13 AM

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10. "Niggas don't vote!"
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

period....

****
pink toes: http://i.imgur.com/WN7DPL1

  

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naame
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21008 posts
Wed Nov-12-03 10:48 AM

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11. "neither do latinos but they ain't being left out the co"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

you feel me where i'm coming from? he wants to start this conversation but don't wanna say he can do something concrete so he just saying it to get the confederates to vote for democrats too and they can keep taking advantage of african americans

America has imported more warlord theocracy from Afghanistan than it has exported democracy.

  

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naame
Charter member
21008 posts
Wed Nov-12-03 10:48 AM

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12. "niggas do vote though"
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

and the democrats win off of our fucking vote.

America has imported more warlord theocracy from Afghanistan than it has exported democracy.

  

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southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Wed Nov-12-03 10:54 AM

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13. "RE: niggas do vote though"
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

steve..first off why do we have to be niggas????

and secondly, we are the minority..do u know what that means steve??? all the blacks in the country can vote for one candidate and it will not affect the overall outcome of the election. thats why i dont vote

~~~~~~

  

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naame
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21008 posts
Wed Nov-12-03 11:00 AM

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14. "the thing is most white people don't vote neither"
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

and could you stop calling me steve, it's steven.

and shit in my heart you ain't GOT to vote, but shit do something political

America has imported more warlord theocracy from Afghanistan than it has exported democracy.

  

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southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Wed Nov-12-03 11:01 AM

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15. "RE: the thing is most white people don't vote neither"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

steve calm down dude. do you vote?? i hope you do not. please use your energy to do something more useful

~~~~~~

  

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narco_sindicalist
Member since Sep 22nd 2003
804 posts
Wed Nov-12-03 11:07 AM

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17. "RE: the thing is most white people don't vote neither"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

i agree. lots of political organizing and activism can and needs to take place outside of the realm of electoral politics, or "choosing which wing of the pro-corporate party will rule us."

and white or black, most people don't vote.

-----
you can wave that piece of shit flag if you dare
but they killed us because we've been killing em for years
-- Mr Lif

http://www.anarco-nyc.net/anarchistpanther.html

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71344 posts
Thu Nov-13-03 09:05 AM

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42. "RE: Hold up a second"
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

Look, few people are more skeptical about voting than I am; it's bullshit to choose between two old, christian, white dudes who come from a small array of backgrounds to represent the whole country. women are most egregiously underrepped but every other group that doesnt fall into those categories isnt far behind. Still, there is usually a lesser of two evils and if the election is close I will vote or if there is a prop on the ballot I strongly favor (happened once) or oppose (happened about five times; but I generally vote NO on all of them).

There is the old Carlin routine that "if you DO vote you have no right to complain because you put the motherfuckers in office" and I tend to take that position, but some things you just cant let happen. If all the liberals, blacks and latinos included, in Florida turned out; we wouldnt be in as much of a mess at the moment (although many of them hit FL pig roadblocks, but nevertheless it was so close that a stronger push would have kept it from a supreme court vote to elect bush)

That said, blacks CAN swing a vote! What kind of ignorant shit is that to say that if every black person voted one way it wouldnt affect the outcome. Dont you think OTHER people are voting for the same candidate/initiative? Sure, if everyone picked a candidate to write-in, he/she wouldnt win but could probably win a state or two given the low turnout of white voters and the disagreement among them. I know you know that if every black person in the country voted for Dean or Bush, it would make a huge fucking difference.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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narco_sindicalist
Member since Sep 22nd 2003
804 posts
Wed Nov-12-03 11:03 AM

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16. "RE: so why should i be o.k. with him saying democrats"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

because thats not what he said at all.

he said something along the lines of "people with confederate flag stickers on their cars should vote for us too because they dont have healthcare and their kids need better schools too"

its one of the smartest things i've heard a candidate say in my lifetime. it's very rare that the republican strategy of using race to get millions of people to vote AGAINST their own interests is brought up in mainstream media...

besides, i think half the people he's talking about do it out of a southern heritage/identity thing and not necessarily out of an explicitly racist thing...


-----
you can wave that piece of shit flag if you dare
but they killed us because we've been killing em for years
-- Mr Lif

http://www.anarco-nyc.net/anarchistpanther.html

  

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naame
Charter member
21008 posts
Wed Nov-12-03 11:11 AM

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18. "i need to see something written. some plan all this"
In response to Reply # 16
Wed Nov-12-03 11:12 AM

  

          

talk don't mean shit to me.

he wants to start this conversation but don't wanna say he can do something concrete so he just saying it to get the confederates to vote for democrats too and they can keep taking advantage of african americans.

America has imported more warlord theocracy from Afghanistan than it has exported democracy.

  

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southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Wed Nov-12-03 11:22 AM

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19. "RE: i need to see something written. some plan all thi"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

steve is this in response to me???
be confident in that you do not want to debate with me

~~~~~~

  

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mariposanegra
Member since Aug 22nd 2003
1074 posts
Wed Nov-12-03 01:21 PM

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20. "Naame"
In response to Reply # 19


          

You clearly haven't read up on Dean. Go to blacksfordean.com and to the News Archive and Issues page and get schooled on the man before you start goin' off on tangents.

He's not the great white hope but he's definite a fresh new thing for America and black America in 2004. He's the best thing for anyone in this country who is not white, male, and rich.

I don't think Dean is going to go against his word when he gets in office. Look at his record and what he did in his state. If he were just trying to pander and win votes, he would have been one of the war-supporting Bush-lite Democrats. But he's not. He was against the war when it wasn't popular. His campaign spoke out on behalf of Mayor John Street when it wasn't necessary and was risky. I believe Dean is genuine in his concern for making sure everyone is treated fairly in this country.

Out of all the candidates, if Dean doesn't get in office, this country is SCREWED and I'm movin' with Aaron McGruder to Canada.

_________________________________________

Obama Answer Center: http://answercenter.barackobama.com

  

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naame
Charter member
21008 posts
Wed Nov-12-03 07:20 PM

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23. "what does this have to do with anything?"
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

Nowadays silence is looked on as odd and most of my race has forgotten the beauty of meaning much by saying little."

-- From Toni Morrison's new book, "Love"

--------------------------
There are at least 5 definable points in the black political spectrum that can readily be said to have a vast constituency within black populace, which are simultaneously operative on virtually all political issues affecting blacks.

1. The Traditional Integrationist: NAACP, NAACP legal defense fund, National Urban League. It is this portion of the black political spectrum that has been most recognized and responded to by whites and by predominantly white institutions. The RESULTS of integrationist litigation are more real, more institutional and have a more concrete impact on daily reality than the many fledgling programs and new theories of other poles.


I'm tired of getting the sense of this from negroes
1. the white man's ice is colder.
2. the white man's sugar is sweeter.
3. the white man's heaven is closer
4. the white man's machines are more efficient
5. the white man's atm's always work.
6. the white man's fashion is much more stylish.
7. the white man's english is perfect
8. the white man's name is more powerful and gives greater status
9. the white man's vote is more important
10. the black man ain't shit.
11. the white man's government is less corrupt.
12. the white man's woman is cuter.
13. the white man's mind is more intelligent
14. if i attain status from the white man than i have attain power over all men.
15. the white man's job pays on time.
16. the white man's business is fortune 500
17. the white man earned his power.
18. the white man's transportation is so much faster!
19. the white man's cities are clean.
20. where the white man lives, property values are higher.
21. Black poverty brings crime.

22. When the black man loves, it's painful. when the white man loves, it's easier to take the pain.
23. White folk communicate so much better!
24. Why get my own when i can get it from the white man?
25. Why support the black business when I can go to walmart?
26. Mexicans are hurting the black man's chance at getting a job.
27. Everyone else works hard but the black man.

America has imported more warlord theocracy from Afghanistan than it has exported democracy.

  

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Monique
Charter member
2511 posts
Wed Nov-12-03 07:08 PM

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21. "JUST DAMNED !"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

are black folks no matter what we do,but this time i am going to take yet another chance with my vote,voting for dean.

an al sharpton upset,yes it would be nice! not because he is black, i do not vote like that. blacks have disappointed me also.

"i see he passed up going to clark atlanta to spend the day at georgia state"

DID HE SAY WHY?

got questions,suggestions you have it above i will assume you know the forums. i feel you,so give a suggestion maybe. www.deanforamerica.com

been there,done that....

***********************************************************
NELLY: I'm Humble In Life Taking Nothing For Granted

AFRICA: www.bbcnews.com

THE BROKER: John Grisham

  

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naame
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Wed Nov-12-03 07:18 PM

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22. "don't attack me, i'm just presenting an idea."
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

i see nothing in his plan for agriculture on the black farmer. if you want to talk about connecting the rural white laborer and the rural black laborer it would be beneficial to mention what you plan on doing to correct the wrongs being committed against African Americans in the US Department of Agriculture.

http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/PageServer?pagename=policy_statement_agriculture


America has imported more warlord theocracy from Afghanistan than it has exported democracy.

  

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Monique
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Wed Nov-12-03 07:21 PM

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24. "RE: don't attack me, i'm just presenting an idea."
In response to Reply # 22
Wed Nov-12-03 07:32 PM

  

          

got me,as i was trying to delete the post because i felt like you would think i was being rude to you,or as you put it "attack".

sorry,not like that at all. i am just angry!, just real angry !

but,not at you.

but,still if you see nothing in his plan for whatever good it might do,offer a suggestion.

i will assume you know about the "feedback" forum. one place is a list /w one being "policies" to ask questions/or give suggestions.

sooner,or laterr it is read,general response i received.
you know it already www.deanforamerica.com.

maybe you have been there done that already.
if you have not and do so,never know what might happen should he be elected president.

***********************************************************
NELLY: I'm Humble In Life Taking Nothing For Granted

AFRICA: www.bbcnews.com

THE BROKER: John Grisham

  

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mariposanegra
Member since Aug 22nd 2003
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Wed Nov-12-03 07:42 PM

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25. "RE: don't attack me, i'm just presenting an idea."
In response to Reply # 24


          

passed up going to Clark Atlanta?

Don't try to paint Dean as anti-HBCU. He's visited many of HBCUs already---Howard, Alabama A&M, etc. Plus he's called for increased funding for HBCUs.


_________________________________________

Obama Answer Center: http://answercenter.barackobama.com

  

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naame
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Wed Nov-12-03 07:45 PM

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26. "let me put it this way"
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

in analyzing his talk and actions, i think he plans on taking advantage of the african american vote even more while pandering to rural whites. we will not receive the rightful place at the top of policy which is needed to achieve a more fair and balanced economic and social American community. It's not going to happen no matter how much I plead with him.

He's not good for black people if he wants to feed white men that would not feed us while we cook the food for the both of them and receive pigs feet, neck bones and chitlins.

and maybe it's me, but I don't really believe much of the supposed racial harmony amongst white people and black people if there are 11 white, rural based republican governors in the southeastern states and none of them really appeal to the urban enclaves for votes. they appeal to the rural white males, it's a recurring pattern, the first black southern governor was not until Governor Wilder in VA, and how many have we had since then?

America has imported more warlord theocracy from Afghanistan than it has exported democracy.

  

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Monique
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Thu Nov-13-03 11:10 AM

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50. "RE: let me put it this way"
In response to Reply # 26
Thu Nov-13-03 11:12 AM

  

          

>in analyzing his talk and actions, i think he plans on
>taking advantage of the african american vote even more
>while pandering to rural whites.

I UNDERSTAND YOU TOTALLY.
but, no matter who they are they take "advantage of the african american vote."

although it should not be our work is always cut out for us working harder for much.
what a man said about dean and blacks just before i posted last nite would have me not voting for dean...

but, for only one reason am i voting for dean,just as for gore.

and i was told gore was actually more of a republican,but i was looking at something else of interest.

It's not going to happen no matter how
>much I plead with him.

I Understand,but if dean become president and black farmers are disinfranchised,well they should load up their tractors in long bed 18 wheelers,head for washington and roll up wherever with their lobbying for help.

no,should not be this way,but do what they gotta do.

whoever win the dem primary i will vote that person in nov04.

bush win 04--or "selected",well.....

WHATEVER THE CHALLENGE CREATE OPPORTUNITY.



***********************************************************
NELLY: I'm Humble In Life Taking Nothing For Granted

AFRICA: www.bbcnews.com

THE BROKER: John Grisham

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71344 posts
Wed Nov-12-03 09:27 PM

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27. "RE: so howard dean is saying what people knew all along"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

man i have been talking about similar labor problems between the two groups and so have a bunch of other people here on this board and in america

fuck, if i hear one more fucker say "i completely agree with Kucinich" and then endorse Dean cuz he's more "electable" I am just gonna hit the mufuckin roof. I read some healthcare fucker saying it today in the nation as well as a bunch of people saying stuff along those lines at a play i went to where some pro-DK literature was being distributed outside.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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mariposanegra
Member since Aug 22nd 2003
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Thu Nov-13-03 05:03 AM

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28. "Howard Dean's Student Loans/Financial Aid Plan"
In response to Reply # 27


          

This particular new higher ed plan he has is going to help me and it is not specifically aimed at black people...

I am not looking forward to my student loans...and if Dean gets in office, they'll be less of a burden to pay.

http://www.blacksfordean.com/newslog/archives/00000049.html

Let's face it... Dean will be better for us than any of the other people who stand a chance of winning. Naame, you seem to just be pessimistic. And that gets you where? You can sit and disassociate yourself from the election process if you want, but you will still have to be under the rule of whoever gets put in office and you will still have to live with the consequences. If I'm gonna have to be ruled by someone, I would much rather have a say in it. Of all the ones who stand a chance of taking over 1600 Pennsylvania, I'd rather it be Dean than any of the other candidates. So I'ma work my darndest get him in and keep those other fools out!

_________________________________________

Obama Answer Center: http://answercenter.barackobama.com

  

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deejboram
Member since Sep 27th 2002
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Thu Nov-13-03 06:29 AM

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29. "don't be so quick to jump the gun..."
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

Most broke people already get tons in college aid.
Some of this is picked up by the state.
Take GA, FL and CA for example.

Also, he said he's going to repeal some of Bush's tax cuts which in turn will make me pay more taxes each month.
I already pay over $1,000 per month in taxes now!

Think about how Dan's plans will affect you 5-10 years from now.

Not just next week...

****
pink toes: http://i.imgur.com/WN7DPL1

  

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mariposanegra
Member since Aug 22nd 2003
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Thu Nov-13-03 06:42 AM

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30. "RE: don't be so quick to jump the gun..."
In response to Reply # 29


          

No. He's going to repeal Bush's tax cuts that went to the wealthy. The tax cuts Bush implemented probably didn't affect you at all.

_________________________________________

Obama Answer Center: http://answercenter.barackobama.com

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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Thu Nov-13-03 06:51 AM

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31. "RE: don't be so quick to jump the gun..."
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

god i hope he only taxes the rich, they should initiate a top 1% bracket and gank them for like 70%, no exaggeration, the way they are living compared to the rest of the country is unbelievable.


as for student loans, i live in ca and really cant complain, the state did right by me for the most part; I got everything covered in a loan or grant for three years in terms of schools fees and some loot to do blow, i mean pay rent (jk). it could be bet

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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deejboram
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Thu Nov-13-03 07:17 AM

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34. "cali is cool..."
In response to Reply # 31


  

          

and then they got cal grants (a, b, & c) BOG (board of governor's) waivers and all kinds of other lil perks for cali residents like CSF scholarships.
you can get a BS/BA from UCLA for literally NUTHIN!


>as for student loans, i live in ca and really cant complain,
>the state did right by me for the most part; I got
>everything covered in a loan or grant for three years in
>terms of schools fees and some loot to do blow, i mean pay
>rent (jk). it could be bet

****
pink toes: http://i.imgur.com/WN7DPL1

  

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deejboram
Member since Sep 27th 2002
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Thu Nov-13-03 07:15 AM

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33. "once again: "don't be so quick to jump the gun...""
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

I seen my check go up "a little" after them Bush cuts.
It wasn't like I got an extra $500 per check but it was noticeable.

****
pink toes: http://i.imgur.com/WN7DPL1

  

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mariposanegra
Member since Aug 22nd 2003
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Thu Nov-13-03 07:33 AM

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36. "RE: once again: "don't be so quick to jump the gun...""
In response to Reply # 33


          

Don't look at absolutes, look at relative. When you compare how much your check when up to what you have to spend in other places, college tuition increases, property tax increases, etc. Was it worth it?

You may have gotten a little but there is a top 1% that got a bunch.

_________________________________________

Obama Answer Center: http://answercenter.barackobama.com

  

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deejboram
Member since Sep 27th 2002
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Thu Nov-13-03 09:23 AM

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43. "RE: once again: "don't be so quick to jump the gun...""
In response to Reply # 36


  

          

>Don't look at absolutes, look at relative. When you compare how much your check
>when up to what you have to spend in other places, college tuition increases,
>property tax increases, etc. Was it worth it?

i'm outta undergrad and have locked in a super low student loan rate so i'm straight. i
rent and am not ready to buy yet (i travel WAAYYY too much) so property taxes
don't have nothin to do with me.

>You may have gotten a little but there is a top 1% that got a bunch.

So what, i'm not a member, yet. so i'm not concerned, that much. that is a struggle i
haven't enough time nor money to fight just yet

****
pink toes: http://i.imgur.com/WN7DPL1

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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Thu Nov-13-03 11:00 AM

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48. "RE: once again: "don't be so quick to jump the gun...""
In response to Reply # 43


  

          

yeah i got a solid rate and also still rent, but hey, dude has a valid point. believe me, the crumbs we are getting arent shit compared to the super-wealthy and in the long run those marginal gains are the result of far more substantial losses elsewhere for the middle and lower classes

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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Thu Nov-13-03 06:57 AM

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32. "RE: well, i live in ca"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

and i get more than 10k/year in fin aid, i got almost that in grants my freshman year alone and i am not exceptional.

i am sure he doesnt mean 10k for EVERY one, that would be ludacrous considering many people dont need it so there must be qualifiers so the "every american" line is suspect.

i certainly hope he repeals rich tax cuts, there should be a top 1% bracket that gets like 70%, no exaggeration, the way they are living off of the rest of us more than justifies it IMO

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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mariposanegra
Member since Aug 22nd 2003
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Thu Nov-13-03 07:30 AM

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35. "RE: well, i live in ca"
In response to Reply # 32


          

So why then are so many kids dropping out of college because they don't have money? Clearly, the money isn't just there for everybody.


I got financial aid too. But I will have loans to pay back. It'll be good to not have to worry about it being a big burden on my net income each year once I start paying.

_________________________________________

Obama Answer Center: http://answercenter.barackobama.com

  

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deejboram
Member since Sep 27th 2002
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Thu Nov-13-03 07:42 AM

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38. "because they lazy!"
In response to Reply # 35


  

          

and using that as a cop out.

i went to school for FREE (grants and shit) in alabama and STILL took out $25K so that I could do like eddie murphy and "party alll the tyyymmmeee" and live in a fat condo off campus.

i didn't NEED this shit but i wanted it.

But i got the grades to back my shit up.
I know this one cat whose dad is a Stanfod MBA grad and makes megabux.
Tuition is only $2K per semester and his folks be BEGGIN his ass to go to class.
He doesn't so they continue to waster their $$$.

Some folks just have a fucked up situation.
Parents are wealthy.
They don't get along with parents.
So in turn no money from parents for colloege for them.
Unfortunately, the govt bases your fin aid amount on how much your folks make not you by yourself.

But if you go to a school in the know they'll petition this rule.
get the student classified as a "INDEPENDENT" student.
and the govt will fund the student's education (all or in part based on studen'ts income SOLELY)


****
pink toes: http://i.imgur.com/WN7DPL1

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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Thu Nov-13-03 08:49 AM

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41. "RE: yeah, that is mostly bullshit"
In response to Reply # 35


  

          

I got almost my entire freshman year paid for in grants and much of my second year. The third year was like 2/3 loans and yeah it is a bitch to pay them off BUT three things there

1) It's a LOAN; what did you think, it was a pay-back-at-your-leisure-or-not-at-all kind of deal? obviously not; although most of the people to whom I loan money seem to view it that way!

2) Dean didnt say he was gonna hand everyone the 10K, I'll wager that it's largely loans since it says combo of grants and loans.

3) There are SO many ways to pay for college; especially if you actually need the money. I was lucky enough to be able to be lazy and just fill out FAFSA and fin aid forms, but I could have applied for a ton of grants and scholarships as well as gone to a school where they would have offered me a full ride (incidentally I was offered one at Pace but opted not not to go to stay closer to home and for other reasons). These are available in larger numbers to minority applicants but far from solely since fraternities, businesses and a number of other organizations offer them.

Most of the people I know who legitimately stopped going to school because of lack of funds were people who got too limited support from their parents who made more than enough money to send them (selfish assholes). State loans and grants cover living expenses too, every quarter I got a check for 2-3K to cover my rent and other bullshit in addition to paying all my university fees.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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naame
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Thu Nov-13-03 07:36 AM

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37. "i think you are avoiding my point"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

i'm bringing it up for you to take to him and other Dean supporters. If anything I'ma write in Cynthia McKinney's name for President, she actually tried to put a bill regarding black farmers through the house.

I'm most definetly not outside of the electoral process, matter of fact, it's my job to register black people to vote and we educate each other on what we want.

i think another point your missing is that i'm not talking about the education, housing, or healthcare. I'm talking about agriculture; the rural farmers, the small town black person. They are not at all involved in Dean's plan for rural america, yet he wants to involve the rural white in his plans.

America has imported more warlord theocracy from Afghanistan than it has exported democracy.

  

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deejboram
Member since Sep 27th 2002
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Thu Nov-13-03 07:45 AM

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39. "man u focusing on that lil shit..."
In response to Reply # 37


  

          

how many folks live out there?
i know it's approx. half a mill black folks that live in the Philly city limits alone.
not including suburbs.

there prolly aint that many black farmers PERIOD!

sometimes you have to sacrifice the few for the many.

and yes,
of course if i was a rural black farmer i'd want to spit in my face.....
but i ain't!

****
pink toes: http://i.imgur.com/WN7DPL1

  

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naame
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Thu Nov-13-03 09:33 AM

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44. "that's your choice"
In response to Reply # 39
Thu Nov-13-03 09:33 AM

  

          

i just can't stand thinking of all the food that is created by white people undercutting black farmers worldwide

America has imported more warlord theocracy from Afghanistan than it has exported democracy.

  

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emil
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Thu Nov-13-03 09:48 AM

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45. "again"
In response to Reply # 44


          

...as son of a black farmer, im really not seeing your point. understood yes...dean needs to address the issue. perhaps someone should approach him and pull his card on seemingly leaving us out.

but the entire picture is much broader than that.

white farmers AND black farmers are feeling crunches. a few blacks in va/md/delaware have joined together to sell produce to cuba. not sure how that's coming, but the market is bad for all family-owned farms, not just black ones. we're already a dying breed which is why i want to run a farm myself. but shit is hard, which is why my family got out of it and leases our farm to a black soy farmer. we still drive tractors occasionally, but that's mostly for small-scale production at the crib in the 'burbs.

you're failing to realize that despite what dean does, agriculture in america is still on a downward slope. despite advances in the 'health-foods' industry, we're still left behind. sellers that deal with whole foods, inc are many times corporate themselves, or co-ops, and most are niche markets. you just can't compete in such a way living in rural virginia or idaho far removed from the high-paying niche markets in cities. add to this the fact that most kids move away from farms (remember the mass exodus of blacks from the south during ww1 and 2). it's happening again now. nobody wants that life, and older guys n gals dont want it for their children. i was pushed to go to medical school, not some polytech a&t&m. it's just not lucrative.

thas where biofuels come in. not even that, but leasing land to windfarm corps. and still grow crops underneath. we should be smart and move in those directions when applicable.

  

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deejboram
Member since Sep 27th 2002
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Thu Nov-13-03 10:13 AM

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46. "u stay on them biofuels..."
In response to Reply # 45


  

          

they got mad windfarms in northern cali.

i don't know if the eastern USA is windy enough to sustain one.

****
pink toes: http://i.imgur.com/WN7DPL1

  

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emil
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Fri Nov-14-03 05:26 AM

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53. "makes perfect sense"
In response to Reply # 46


          

all of the agricultural land we have here, a surplus of biomass.

if france, germany, italy, england, brazil, guatemala and plenty of other places do it, why don't we? brazil gets 40% of all its fuel from either corn (ethanol) or soybeans (biodiesel). that's impressive. my favorite professor taught ichthyology and the reason she was dope b/c she focused on how we can mimic nature to engineer better solutions to current problems. of course that's what we do now, and most of our technology comes from such an approach. but we've neglected to think this way when it comes to energy, the one thing that drives EVERYTHING else.

as for windfarms, we get our power from windfarms in the west virginia mountains. yes, dc residents can get green energy. they will offer biomass pretty soon, also. it can be done.

that is why i said site specific. there isn't water everywhere just as there isn't wind or 300 days of sunlight. but places where there are these resources, we must use them to the fullest extent put people don't get that. we are put off by costs. think about the first cell phone ($3,000 in 1984), the first microwave, the first vcr. but people found those options to be something they could use. same here. the human populace severely underestimates the importance of natural resources and how much our entire lives depend on food and energy.

  

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naame
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Thu Nov-13-03 10:33 AM

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47. "u got the point on dean."
In response to Reply # 45


  

          

in terms of the black farmer, i see it that if anyone wants to have a plan regarding helping the family farmer, include the african american farmer...

i feel you where you coming from on the second point, i think that black people who want to have a sense of self-sufficiency here in america need to have a good understanding of agriculture and develop a sense of agricultural resource distribution.

America has imported more warlord theocracy from Afghanistan than it has exported democracy.

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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Thu Nov-13-03 11:04 AM

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49. "RE: u got the point on dean."
In response to Reply # 47


  

          

dont count on an understanding of agriculture coming to anyone in america any time soon, by and large people dont give a shit and act like people living on farms happened a thousand years back. other than a few hacky-sack gardeners, people are so lazy that commercial farming is just fine with them and the health conscious folks are mostly just rich people willing to pay more for shit from alternative farms that are also pretty commercial

leaving out black farmers from agricultural plans should raise concern, but again, if we knew the total number it would probably explain the exception/exclusion from the plan; especially that figure relative to the number of "confederate" farmers...

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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naame
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Sat Nov-15-03 05:13 PM

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54. "so we need to pressure dean and the other candidates"
In response to Reply # 45


  

          

on these issues for African American farmers.

and the broad picture is that most of the farmers in the world are non-white. we are being undercut by white owned corporations and the europeanized leaders that we supposedly elect.

America has imported more warlord theocracy from Afghanistan than it has exported democracy.

  

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naame
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Thu Nov-13-03 07:54 AM

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40. "and his so called "conversation" on race."
In response to Reply # 37


  

          

sonny purdue and jimmy carter had a "conversation" on race down here in georgia and didn't wanna talk about what the negroes was bringing up

America has imported more warlord theocracy from Afghanistan than it has exported democracy.

  

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mariposanegra
Member since Aug 22nd 2003
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Thu Nov-13-03 11:11 AM

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51. "RE: and his so called "conversation" on race."
In response to Reply # 40


          

Al's Political Emotional Breakdown

http://www.blackcommentator.com/64/64_cover_sharpton.html

I was mad at him at first. But now I feel sad for him. He is a brotha and I know its a lot of pressure running for President of the US. He just let his ego get the best of him.

_________________________________________

Obama Answer Center: http://answercenter.barackobama.com

  

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naame
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Thu Nov-13-03 12:00 PM

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52. "are you insinuating that i'll vote for al sharpton?"
In response to Reply # 51


  

          

Nowadays silence is looked on as odd and most of my race has forgotten the beauty of meaning much by saying little."

-- From Toni Morrison's new book, "Love"

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There are at least 5 definable points in the black political spectrum that can readily be said to have a vast constituency within black populace, which are simultaneously operative on virtually all political issues affecting blacks.

1. The Traditional Integrationist: NAACP, NAACP legal defense fund, National Urban League. It is this portion of the black political spectrum that has been most recognized and responded to by whites and by predominantly white institutions. The RESULTS of integrationist litigation are more real, more institutional and have a more concrete impact on daily reality than the many fledgling programs and new theories of other poles.


I'm tired of getting the sense of this from negroes
1. the white man's ice is colder.
2. the white man's sugar is sweeter.
3. the white man's heaven is closer
4. the white man's machines are more efficient
5. the white man's atm's always work.
6. the white man's fashion is much more stylish.
7. the white man's english is perfect
8. the white man's name is more powerful and gives greater status
9. the white man's vote is more important
10. the black man ain't shit.
11. the white man's government is less corrupt.
12. the white man's woman is cuter.
13. the white man's mind is more intelligent
14. if i attain status from the white man than i have attain power over all men.
15. the white man's job pays on time.
16. the white man's business is fortune 500
17. the white man earned his power.
18. the white man's transportation is so much faster!
19. the white man's cities are clean.
20. where the white man lives, property values are higher.
21. Black poverty brings crime.

22. When the black man loves, it's painful. when the white man loves, it's easier to take the pain.
23. White folk communicate so much better!
24. Why get my own when i can get it from the white man?
25. Why support the black business when I can go to walmart?
26. Mexicans are hurting the black man's chance at getting a job.
27. Everyone else works hard but the black man.

America has imported more warlord theocracy from Afghanistan than it has exported democracy.

  

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