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Solarus
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3604 posts
Mon Aug-05-02 02:42 PM

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"Panama: Mi Comentario"


  

          



Peace to everyone
This summer I decided to go to Panama for awhile to improve mi espaņol, learn more about mi familia and subsequently myself. Much of my family has already left Panama as quickly as we entered during the building of the Panama Canal but as before we still have a few stragglers with whom I will be spending time. Those who know me, know that I have a lot to say about everything so when I have time to kill I’ll probably be hitting up the Internet somewhere to keep yall abreast.

ŋEntonces empezarémos?

____________________________
"the real pyramids were built with such precision that you can't slide a piece of paper between two 4,000 lb stones, and have shafts perfectly aligned so that you can see a tiny aperture through dozens of these mammoth blocks

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
El Vuelo Largo
Aug 05th 2002
1
Aug 05th 2002
2
muy interesante...
Aug 05th 2002
3
^up
Aug 06th 2002
4
RE: Panama: Mi Comentario
Aug 06th 2002
5
where in panama?
Aug 06th 2002
6
      RE: where in panama?
Aug 07th 2002
15
           RE: where in panama?
Aug 07th 2002
19
                RE: where in panama?
Aug 07th 2002
21
                     definitely go
Aug 07th 2002
22
The Latinization of Afrikens
Aug 06th 2002
7
RE: The Latinization of Afrikens
Aug 06th 2002
9
      RE: The Latinization of Afrikens
Aug 06th 2002
10
           RE: The Latinization of Afrikens
Aug 06th 2002
11
                RE: The Latinization of Afrikens
Aug 07th 2002
14
                     RE: The Latinization of Afrikens
Aug 08th 2002
28
good stuff
Aug 06th 2002
8
RE: Panama: Mi Comentario
Aug 06th 2002
12
excuse me...
Aug 07th 2002
13
Aug 07th 2002
16
RE:no wonder
Aug 07th 2002
17
dreds
Aug 07th 2002
20
it's interesting
Aug 07th 2002
25
Aug 08th 2002
34
      straight out
Aug 09th 2002
36
RE: Panama: Mi Comentario
Aug 07th 2002
18
whats your avatar?
Aug 07th 2002
23
RE: whats your avatar?
Aug 07th 2002
24
Aug 08th 2002
26
repression everywhere...
Aug 08th 2002
27
Yes they are
Aug 08th 2002
30
Thank you
Aug 08th 2002
29
YEs
Aug 08th 2002
31
      Keep It Up
Aug 08th 2002
32
shits crazy...who knew..also
Aug 08th 2002
33
La Musica?
Aug 08th 2002
35
tipico
Aug 09th 2002
37
Are they more into Merengue?
Aug 09th 2002
38
      a LOT of reggaespanol
Aug 09th 2002
39
           RE: a LOT of reggaespanol
Aug 16th 2002
44
                RE: a LOT of reggaespanol
Sep 16th 2002
133
RE: La Musica?
Sep 16th 2002
137
Aug 10th 2002
40
Aug 12th 2002
41
Aug 16th 2002
45
El Universidad pobre de Panama
Aug 20th 2002
56
Word?..Jamaiaca has it's issues too man...
Aug 17th 2002
48
      RE: Word?..Jamaiaca has it's issues too man...
Aug 17th 2002
49
Aug 16th 2002
42
Indios
Aug 16th 2002
43
Los Indios
Aug 19th 2002
51
      RE: Los Indios
Sep 09th 2002
118
Ain't nobody forgettin' you
Aug 17th 2002
47
      figure of speech
Aug 19th 2002
52
           misconceptions........
Aug 20th 2002
54
           misconceptions II
Sep 16th 2002
132
RE: Panama: Mi Comentario
Aug 16th 2002
46
Espero que tu tengas un buen viaje!
Aug 17th 2002
50
wait....
Aug 19th 2002
53
I met
Aug 20th 2002
55
Brewster's in Panama
Aug 20th 2002
57
Mas despacio, por favor.
Aug 20th 2002
58
get music
Aug 20th 2002
59
oh yeah.
Aug 20th 2002
60
     
Aug 20th 2002
61
           one time
Aug 20th 2002
62
               
Aug 20th 2002
63
                my jaw dropped when i read that
Aug 20th 2002
66
                     mine too.
Aug 20th 2002
67
                     Yo...who went to newbirth?
Aug 20th 2002
74
                          I visited Newbirth in Atlanta
Sep 23rd 2002
145
                     they got one in portobelo
Aug 20th 2002
68
                     be glad
Aug 20th 2002
71
                          why would they do that?
Aug 20th 2002
72
                               they are
Aug 20th 2002
73
                     DAMN
Sep 23rd 2002
144
                General
Aug 20th 2002
65
RE: Mas despacio, por favor.
Aug 20th 2002
64
your guess is as
Aug 20th 2002
69
      RE: your guess is as
Aug 20th 2002
76
           Ahora
Aug 21st 2002
77
                Damm nice area
Aug 21st 2002
78
RE: Mas despacio, por favor.
Sep 09th 2002
119
how long are you there?
Aug 20th 2002
70
from July 30 to Sept 1
Aug 20th 2002
75
Hierbas y Cosas
Aug 23rd 2002
79
please god...
Aug 23rd 2002
80
Ah....sounds like Jamaica.
Aug 23rd 2002
81
      cerasse?
Aug 23rd 2002
82
           I used to think it was a sickly cactus as a kid
Aug 23rd 2002
83
                i swear
Aug 23rd 2002
84
                     Aloe
Aug 23rd 2002
85
Aug 26th 2002
86
overpasses for crossing streets
Aug 26th 2002
88
oh and the ac
Aug 26th 2002
89
Aug 26th 2002
87
of course not...
Aug 26th 2002
90
      JA has to be the most unsafe place of
Sep 10th 2002
120
           Yeah...if CAN be, but so can anywhere...you just gotta
Sep 10th 2002
122
                one we both Yankee's,
Sep 10th 2002
128
Aug 29th 2002
91
Como aprendes copoiera?
Aug 29th 2002
92
     
Aug 29th 2002
93
           cool....
Aug 30th 2002
94
                Plenty of Stickfighting
Aug 30th 2002
95
                Damn...and here I thought Fencing and Capoiera is all
Aug 30th 2002
96
                     Fencing?
Aug 30th 2002
98
                          Damn...I thought is WAS moorish.
Aug 30th 2002
100
                               When did the moors
Aug 30th 2002
101
                               LOL!!!
Aug 30th 2002
102
                                    *shakes head*
Aug 30th 2002
103
                Handblocks
Aug 30th 2002
97
                     52 handblocks
Aug 30th 2002
99
Preguntas
Sep 03rd 2002
104
Black Activism in Latin America
Sep 03rd 2002
106
un momento por favor, Una mas pregunta
Sep 03rd 2002
105
Disregard question...Uta had it covered. My bad
Sep 03rd 2002
107
Sep 05th 2002
108
Mis Aventuras en Portobelo
Sep 06th 2002
109
LOL!
Sep 06th 2002
110
      A little bit
Sep 06th 2002
111
Mis Aventuras...
Sep 09th 2002
112
the dogs
Sep 09th 2002
113
what about the WOMEN ?
Sep 09th 2002
114
he can't talk
Sep 09th 2002
115
Actually I was going to mention
Sep 09th 2002
116
      so you didnt see one fine chica,
Sep 09th 2002
117
           By those standards
Sep 10th 2002
126
                ohok,
Sep 10th 2002
127
this shit is tight...I wish u could found out more abou
Sep 10th 2002
121
how could leaving his car?
Sep 10th 2002
123
      LOL .... cutlas=machete
Sep 10th 2002
124
THANX
Sep 10th 2002
125
Mis Aventuras...
Sep 11th 2002
129
viajo con dios /Allah :)
Sep 12th 2002
130
name 5 of those ways.
Sep 16th 2002
134
      A few things (Congos in Panama specifically)
Sep 16th 2002
135
           It's like every other country I go....I see the sameXXX
Sep 16th 2002
136
^
Sep 15th 2002
131
up
Sep 20th 2002
138
I plan to finish this
Sep 20th 2002
139
      in'sh allah
Sep 20th 2002
140
           And
Sep 20th 2002
141
                there's one archived, but
Sep 23rd 2002
142
                     Do you know of anyone
Sep 23rd 2002
143
up
Sep 24th 2002
146
Yayyyyyyy were cousins
Sep 24th 2002
147
Mi Reflecciones
Sep 27th 2002
148
Gringo
Oct 01st 2002
155
Please Archive
Sep 27th 2002
149
RE: Please Archive
Sep 27th 2002
150
Please archive
Oct 01st 2002
151
Dude,
Oct 01st 2002
152
      I DID!
Oct 01st 2002
153
           she's gone
Oct 01st 2002
154
                Since when%3F
Oct 01st 2002
156

Solarus
Charter member
3604 posts
Mon Aug-05-02 02:48 PM

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1. "El Vuelo Largo"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


Ever since 9-11, I always make sure I donīt have anything that would hinder me from getting on the plane. I carry a lot of nik-naks in my bag, so I always check it. I went thru it and the only thing that might have been a problem were the bicycle tools. I took them all out and put them in my luggage (as I planned to rent a bike in Panama).

So the time comes for me to go thru the security line. I go thru and my person is clean but they ask if they can put my bag thru again. They put it thru again and then ask to search it. They search it and still nothing. At this point I think their equipment sucks and they are just giving me a hard time. But they put it thru again and the young lady insists there is ĻsomethingĻ there.

They look in my bag again and lo and behold they find what else but a… BOX CUTTER! Iīm like oh shit, I messed up BAD! The guy who pulled it out said Ļthis is not allowed sir!Ļ

(((Öh really dumbass! Thanks for telling me!)))

So he hands it to another guy and the guy asks ĻDo you wish to check this in?Ļ

No.

So they gave me my bag and I was on my way. I quickly realized that I was not going to reprimanded any further. I first was surprised but then realized that I donīt look like a terrorist. Maybe a thief, gangbanger, or drug dealer but definitely not a terrorist. Black folks ainīt sophisticated enough for that. The most I could be is a Jamaican kingpin (darkskin and locks> common stereotype for me) but with my inexpensive clothing I donīt fit that bill for long. Plus considering that everyone of the workers was Afrikan in some sense of the word (American or Continental), that gave them a sense of familiarity with me.

They pretty much just tapped me on the hand and were likeĻ:

ĻWhatīs wrong nigga you sleepin or summin?Ļ

Shit if I was Arab or looked like it, I would have prolly been hemmed up and stripped naked in a room with a bunch of soldiers with M-16īs takin turn going upside my head.

Iīm PROUD to Be BLACK!

The first flight was pretty smooth and went by in no time. I flew from Washington to Newark to connect to a no-stop flight to Panama. The Panama flight was HUGE! I everybody and they momma was on that flight. I also noticed a lot of heavily-indigenous American-looking people (like Mayans) on the flight and thought that was pretty odd. Sure there are many people who fit that bill in Panama but the native peoples have very small numbers these days with many tribes wiped out thru the years with a few holding strong. And the ones that do hold it down are not likely to be getting on planes and flying out of Panama en masse. I found out later that this flight would go to Ecuador after it stopped in Panama. ((ONE DAY IT’LL ALL MAKE SENSE)))

So while the flight was pretty smooth and nothing very climatic happened (except maybe for the 2 foot tall Chinese woman who only spoke Cantonese and espanol and asked me to switch my aisle seat with her, dumbass), I talked to a guy from Switzerland who sat next to me. He didnīt look Swiss to me but more Latin, like a Spaniard. He said that he was mixed as his mother was Panamanian and he was going to visit her. He told me about the difficulties he had been having going to Panama. He had been on route to Panama for over 20 hours, mainly because he missed several flights because of being held by airport security. One of the problems was that he was carrying some very hi-tech computer equipment as he was a computer technician. The other problem was his complexion. People didnīt believe that he was Swiss and thought he was probably Arab or Muslim and had acquired a Swiss passport illegally. (He could have passed for a Moroccan or Algerian in my opinion.) He told me how they stripped search him, verbally harassed him and did other illegal searches. He also informed me that the Swiss Embassy was going to financially compensate him through a $5000+ fine that Continental Airlines had to pay. Hmmmm…
Would I let someone strip search me for $5000???

Oh yeah, Continental Airlines really does suck. I got there but my luggage didnīt!?

...continuaré luego...

____________________________
"the real pyramids were built with such precision that you can't slide a piece of paper between two 4,000 lb stones, and have shafts perfectly aligned so that you can see a tiny aperture through dozens of these mammoth blocks

  

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Solarus
Charter member
3604 posts
Mon Aug-05-02 02:50 PM

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2. ""
In response to Reply # 0


  

          



The last time I was here was in 1990 right after the Christmas of ī89 when the US invaded Panama to bring their prized pupil, Manuel Noreiga, to Ļjustice.Ļ (Wait a minute didnīt this just happen?)

US = Broken Record

Anyways right now Iīm staying with my motherīs cousin who is now a 60ish grandmother who stays with her husband, two daughters and two grandkids from anoter daughter who is a work-by-day, school-by-night single mother. My prima de mama lives at the same house she did 12 years ago that is only about 10 minutes from the airport. I plan on staying here for only a short while until I contact my other relative and family friends (and until I get my luggage).

For those that donīt know, the US once had military bases in Panama and controlled the Panama Canal. Since 2000, they left the bases and turned control of the Canal back to the Panamanian government. But the heavy footprint of America is still very blatant, almost moreso than before.

Mi prima de madre lives on the outskirts of Panama Province, which I remembered as being in the “boondocks.” Now there are KFCs, McDonaldīs, Blockbusters and imitation American stores all around. One clothing store in the area had a huge sign for all to see saying, “American Clothing Has Just Arived!” (in espaņol of course).

Even the neighborhood that mi prima lives in has changed. Her house didnīt but more houses have sprouted up in the area, that are bigger and more expensive. This used to be a “poor” neighborhood as pre-”US exodus” there were 2 classes “rich and poor” (have and have-nots). Now there are 3 classes “upper, middle, and lower” (have a lot, have something, donīt have shit) of course with its varying degrees but not as extreme in variations as in the US. Although that may sound like an improvement, all Iīll say now is that things have changed and I canīt necessarily say for the better.

...continuaré luego...

____________________________
"the real pyramids were built with such precision that you can't slide a piece of paper between two 4,000 lb stones, and have shafts perfectly aligned so that you can see a tiny aperture through dozens of these mammoth blocks

  

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FireBrand
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145739 posts
Mon Aug-05-02 03:41 PM

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3. "muy interesante..."
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

can't wait for more info.

-------------
avatar?
Burning Spear...likya fiya fi bun nuh !?!

"Well, when your every breath and will to live is an act of resistance, you cannot help but be 'too political'. To do otherwise is to hide, to live in denial and defeat." --ArabHottie

" If we can't learn to live together despite the turmoil of past generations we are doomed." -Stern


"And where today is the stable community that would sustain such a couple, where one can be both poor and diginified and raise one's children with decency and hope... If the answer is education, does our society adequateley provide that tool of self-improvement to the less well off?"-- Sidney Poitier

" I'm not mad 'cus I'm losing! I'm mad 'cus I don't know how to win!" --Kevin Curtis Daniels Jr.

"And herein lies the tragedy of the age: not that men are poor,-all men know something of poverty; not that men are wicked,-who is good? Not that men are ignorant, -what is Truth? Nay, but that men know so little of men."
W.E.B. Dubois


"Slaves got options...cowards aint got shit." --PS
"Once upon a time, little need existed for making the distinction between a nigga and a black—at least not in this country, the place where niggas were invented" -- Donnell A

  

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Utamaroho
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17658 posts
Tue Aug-06-02 08:40 AM

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4. "^up"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

box cutter?!? tha fuck?!?

*cue the music*

Your a smart guyyyyyy, smart guyyyyyy, smart guyyyyyyy.... whoah-a-whoahhhh.


Red, Black, Green

  

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blackfists
Charter member
608 posts
Tue Aug-06-02 08:57 AM

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5. "RE: Panama: Mi Comentario"
In response to Reply # 0


          

My granpops is from Panama.. I was thinking about taking him back there to visit, being that he will be 78 this year & hasnt been there in a while...

In addition I would also like to broaden my spanish.. hopefully i can do some of that before I go so I wont sound like an idiot!

I'm not sure about the accomodations.. hopefully we can stay with some family..

Being that I have never been... It would be good to hear some suggestions on what there is to do..

Peace

  

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guerilla_love
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8273 posts
Tue Aug-06-02 09:01 AM

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6. "where in panama?"
In response to Reply # 5


          

it makes a difference......

.....

"Who need fossil fuel when the sun ain't goin' nowhere"
- Amiri Baraka

http://www.okayplayer.com/guidelines

BUY MY BOOK- only $6! Inbox me for details

  

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blackfists
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608 posts
Wed Aug-07-02 05:17 AM

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15. "RE: where in panama?"
In response to Reply # 6


          

why does it make a difference.... you mean as far as the english speaking? or what?

  

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guerilla_love
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8273 posts
Wed Aug-07-02 06:53 AM

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19. "RE: where in panama?"
In response to Reply # 15


          

as far as how rural or urban or americanized or unamericanized it is and weather it's around mountains/water/etc...

.....

"Who need fossil fuel when the sun ain't goin' nowhere"
- Amiri Baraka

http://www.okayplayer.com/guidelines

BUY MY BOOK- only $6! Inbox me for details

  

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blackfists
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608 posts
Wed Aug-07-02 07:07 AM

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21. "RE: where in panama?"
In response to Reply # 19


          

i dunno where he's from.... i'd hafta ask...
talking to my momz... she said she didnt think that he would be up to flying..

whatever... a few cognac on the rocks & he gonna roll with me

  

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guerilla_love
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8273 posts
Wed Aug-07-02 07:09 AM

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22. "definitely go"
In response to Reply # 21


          

getting outta the country changes yr perspective in great ways, and panama is a great place to visit on many levels

.....

"Who need fossil fuel when the sun ain't goin' nowhere"
- Amiri Baraka

http://www.okayplayer.com/guidelines

BUY MY BOOK- only $6! Inbox me for details

  

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Brooklynbeef
Member since May 30th 2002
4649 posts
Tue Aug-06-02 09:39 AM

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7. "The Latinization of Afrikens"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

A friend from Panama during Kwanzaa of 00 said that during his generation that Afri-Panamians because of the history, music(r&B and reggae)identified strongly with African Americans but now they seem to identify themselves as Latinos. Have you found this to be tru.

"Forget Black History Month, how about live an African History Life"-Ansley Burrows

  

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raool
Member since Jul 10th 2002
12355 posts
Tue Aug-06-02 11:16 AM

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9. "RE: The Latinization of Afrikens"
In response to Reply # 7


          

How does being latino preclude from being black?

  

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Brooklynbeef
Member since May 30th 2002
4649 posts
Tue Aug-06-02 11:46 AM

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10. "RE: The Latinization of Afrikens"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

In the minds of many it does preclude. Example:
In my neighborhood if your your father is Guyanese and your mother is African-American then a common response would be my father is Guyanese and my mom is American or from down South. The recognition being that there is a nationality difference not racial. One would not commonly say my mom is Black and my father is Guyanese even though everyone from Guyana is an Afriken. People often say in an african-American Latino coupling, well my moms is Black and my pops is puerto rican/spanish/Dominican/latino which gives the impression that one can not be Black or of African descent and speak spanish at the same time. That is not to say all Latinos are Black but many are and all Gauyanese are not Black but one does n't say my mother is Black or my pops is Guyanaese. So unfortunately in the minds of many the two groups are mutually exclusive. Futhermore check out okayhomo's Multiculturalism and assimilation must cease thread.


more at 11......

"Forget Black History Month, how about live an African History Life"-Ansley Burrows

  

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raool
Member since Jul 10th 2002
12355 posts
Tue Aug-06-02 03:28 PM

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11. "RE: The Latinization of Afrikens"
In response to Reply # 10


          


>my pops is puerto rican/spanish/Dominican/latino >

I see your point. However, I think that it's only when the person would say that his father is spanish or latino that it would be wrond since being latino is not an ethnicity but a culture. So often,people of African descent from Latin America are denied a voice and their extremely important contribution to latin culture is hidden. Most of what we think as latino culture comes from AfroLatinos like salsa,merengue. The white populations were too busy aping Spaniards to create a culture of their own. Some Afrolatinos are unfortunately confused and would deny vehemently that they are not black,etc... Well, the concept of race is not one that has dissapeared in Latin America, only in the minds of some wishful thinkers.

  

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blackfists
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608 posts
Wed Aug-07-02 05:16 AM

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14. "RE: The Latinization of Afrikens"
In response to Reply # 11


          

yeah some people are ignorant like that (not you)... recently i took a few of my cousins (from down south - boondocks, bammaville up to NY. & was showing them aroung. blah blah blah... so one of them was like how come that black man was speaking spanish... he didnt look spanish.... Geez.... what the heck do they teach in the schools south of the mason dixon?

  

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ochosigrand
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416 posts
Thu Aug-08-02 06:39 AM

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28. "RE: The Latinization of Afrikens"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

It ain't just the South bruh. Scan the complexion of Spanish TV. It has more blonde hair blue eyes than its American counterpart. So you can not blame folks for some of the false perceptions they have.

  

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urbgriot
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11445 posts
Tue Aug-06-02 11:00 AM

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8. "good stuff"
In response to Reply # 0


          


https://twitter.com/onnextlevel

  

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jenNjuice
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3527 posts
Tue Aug-06-02 04:58 PM

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12. "RE: Panama: Mi Comentario"
In response to Reply # 0


          

you aint lie

you DO talk alot:)

bring me back some sugar canes...

does it look like ghana over there?

"However, the village mentality, and understanding what worked for us before injustice, before yurugu infection, before colonialism is what will save us now. "-Firebrand

"The only thing we wanted for our country was the right to a decent existence, to dignity without hypocrisy , to independence without restrictions... The day will come when history will have its say."-Lumumba

  

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LexM
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28342 posts
Wed Aug-07-02 02:08 AM

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13. "excuse me..."
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Aug-07-02 02:50 AM

  

          

i misunderstood the post....lol

reading now...
_____________________________
~Remember you are not the general manager of the universe~

remember why you came/ and while you're alive/ experience the warmth/ before you go (c)incubus

~~~~
http://omidele.blogspot.com/
http://rahareiki.tumblr.com/
http://seatofbliss.blogspot.com/

  

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Solarus
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3604 posts
Wed Aug-07-02 06:09 AM

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16. ""
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

There have been several discussions about "race" in the Caribbean and Latin America on this board. Many have often said "There is no such thing as race" in these areas. Well the persons who said this DEFINITELY have not been to Panama.

First we need to breakdown the types of people in Panama. Panama has alot of different people from alot of different places in it. Asians such as Chinese and Indians, represent well here as do Europeans. But as far as the dominant groups (the ones who have been here longer), they are the

"Latins" or "cholos"
Blacks (Antillean) or "chombos"
(indigenous peoples) Indians (I havenīt heard them called by a Spanish name yet)
Whites or "gringos" y "rabiblancos"

By far the nation is run by "Latins" or cholos. Qualification to this group is based on appearance (as are all of the previously stated). In general this group is primarily a "mestizo" group as they are mixtures of the above groups. Generally they look like a typical Mexican would look like in the states. The thing is that their hues vary depending on how much or less of black or white they have in them. Many blacks intermarry with LAtins to erase the blackness out or blacks that could probably pass take extra measures to ensure so such as varying hair straightening techniques.

My uncle jokingly said that I could have all the black women in Panama because are of the brothers here go after the Latin or any white women they can find, thus leaving all the sisters with no men. Back in the days the American soldiers would get all the women, black or latin, and take them home as wives as the women always wanted a way out of Panama but since the Americans arenīt here anymore, that has changed.

The whites generally are Europeans or Americans that have stayed and made Panama their home. The indigenous Indians generally seem to keep to themselves and change little of their culture, but of course their are a few who may delve further into mainstream Panamanian culture and they would more or less be accepted by and placed in the "Latin" category.

Blacks in general are the first to be harassed by police and thrown in jail for no reason. They are also the ones looked at when going into any store or the first to be suspected of being a theif. I saw a local comedy show the other day where a skit was done by two cholos dressing like some hip hop cats with brown paint on their faces doing a local dance called "la pica" which looks like rappers facing off against each other. They also had powder all over their necks and chest which is something that I noticed amongst the blacks here. My family does it all the time. Basically the baby powder is put on for hygenic purposes, I guess to keep you cool and smelling decent despite all the sweating that one will do. Blacks may not be the only ones that do it but it is more noticeable amongst the darkskin blacks moreso that anyone because of the contrast of the powder to the skin. So the guys on that comedy (minstrel) show put on ALOT. My family loves the show and were laughing there asses off...

Oh yeah let me not forget about hair. Wearing locks down here is pretty much like how it is in the South of the US. PEople look at you funny, are afraid, think you are a criminal and/or think you are on drugs. It is probably different in Colon because there are alot more blacks and alot of Rastas. I also found this to be slightly not a problem in black areas of Panama Province but my motherīs cousin lives in an area with mostly Latins so this is not the case.

____________________________
"the real pyramids were built with such precision that you can't slide a piece of paper between two 4,000 lb stones, and have shafts perfectly aligned so that you can see a tiny aperture through dozens of these mammoth blocks

  

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jenNjuice
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17. "RE:no wonder"
In response to Reply # 16


          

y most continental africans don't sport dreads. i remember bringing up the idea to my moms once-and she was on some well not in my house will you put that "rasta" in your hair.

they still *negatively* associate dreads with so called "voodoo"-and look down upon it *now* because they are devoted "christians"

its sad to me...

"However, the village mentality, and understanding what worked for us before injustice, before yurugu infection, before colonialism is what will save us now. "-Firebrand

"The only thing we wanted for our country was the right to a decent existence, to dignity without hypocrisy , to independence without restrictions... The day will come when history will have its say."-Lumumba

  

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guerilla_love
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20. "dreds"
In response to Reply # 16


          

we saw a lot on the caribean coast but none elsewhere..... except maybe panama (panama city).......?

.....

"Who need fossil fuel when the sun ain't goin' nowhere"
- Amiri Baraka

http://www.okayplayer.com/guidelines

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Zesi
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25. "it's interesting"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

to see your experiences vs. mine. Cuz I was mostly around black Panamanians when I was there, and I was only in the Panama provinces maybe twice...at the afro-antillano conference, so I really didn't see that much of what it was like there.

I really liked being in the Colon province, though. It was nice to just be...anonymous (as anonymous as an American can be)...to have my face not be something strange.

and due to a computer crash, when I find the disk, I have something to send you.

  

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FireBrand
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34. ""
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

Interesting...so it is the same in panama as in Jamaica as far as the Dreds go eh? Most regular folk aint having it, and many rastas are looked upon with disdais- cept fi de ute dem.

As far as the racial dynamics...yeah. It's a trip to see the diversity for the first time, when u always picture the islands as a homogenouse group. In Jamaica the Chinese population has dwindled since the implementaion of Anti-Chinese immigration practices, but you still have East Indians, Blacks, Jews, A few spainards, and some English holdovers.

I never left the back country when going back to JA- so I coudn't tell u how the racial shit worked. Out tv only picked up one channel, and all I saw were blacks.



-------------
avatar?
Negril Sunset...

"Well, when your every breath and will to live is an act of resistance, you cannot help but be 'too political'. To do otherwise is to hide, to live in denial and defeat." --ArabHottie

" If we can't learn to live together despite the turmoil of past generations we are doomed." -Stern


"And where today is the stable community that would sustain such a couple, where one can be both poor and diginified and raise one's children with decency and hope... If the answer is education, does our society adequateley provide that tool of self-improvement to the less well off?"-- Sidney Poitier

" I'm not mad 'cus I'm losing! I'm mad 'cus I don't know how to win!" --Kevin Curtis Daniels Jr.

"And herein lies the tragedy of the age: not that men are poor,-all men know something of poverty; not that men are wicked,-who is good? Not that men are ignorant, -what is Truth? Nay, but that men know so little of men."
W.E.B. Dubois


"Slaves got options...cowards aint got shit." --PS
"Once upon a time, little need existed for making the distinction between a nigga and a black—at least not in this country, the place where niggas were invented" -- Donnell A

  

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guerilla_love
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36. "straight out"
In response to Reply # 34


          

that was the main difference i saw regarding race in jamaica

eg.
yellow man

etc.

i thought it was funny the way they just said right out things that we have so many complexes about

"dat jiggle mek mi giggle"

.....

"Who need fossil fuel when the sun ain't goin' nowhere"
- Amiri Baraka

http://www.okayplayer.com/guidelines

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blackfists
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Wed Aug-07-02 06:37 AM

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18. "RE: Panama: Mi Comentario"
In response to Reply # 0


          

tell us about the economy... or relocating... if one wanted to relocate to panama.. could he/she do it & live confortably? job, etc.. etc?

  

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IsaIsaIsa
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posts
Wed Aug-07-02 07:20 AM

23. "whats your avatar?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

yours to Uta!

  

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blackfists
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Wed Aug-07-02 10:49 AM

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24. "RE: whats your avatar?"
In response to Reply # 23


          

my avatar?

you cant see it?

geez

its a white square outlined in white..

lemme see if I can draw it again so you can see it

lol

peace

  

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Solarus
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Thu Aug-08-02 06:21 AM

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26. ""
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Staying with my mother's cousin hasn't been fun, to say the least. I didn't expect to stay there long but I had to shorten my stay even moreso than I expected to. I mentioned before that there are several people in the house and that she stays in an area that is mostly latin. Well when I first arrived I got up early one morning and walked around the neighborhood to see the changes because I had been in this same neighborhood 12 years ago. Things didn't look too different but I did notice the fact that there were few black people in the area (I don't remember seeing black folks in the area as a youth but then I didn't think too much of it).

When I got back to the house my cousin was up and she told me not to go out again. She explained that the area was mostly latin and that because of my appearance and the fact that I am a stranger to the neighborhood, the residents would call the police on me and I would be taken to jail. Because of my non-mastery of the espaņol and my hair, they would take advantage of this and tear up my passport, put me in jail and cut off my hair. (I've heard these stories before but only by my mother{s side of the family would come from the Panama province, but my family in Colon Province laugh at this and say it is nonsense.)

She told me that I can only go out if someone accompanies me. I didn't mind that at the moment because I hadn't really learned the bus system (this was the night after i arrived) and didn't know my way around, so I agreed with her. So this means that unless I go somewhere with her husband or one of her daughters, I really can't go anywhere. Like i said I wasn't planning on staying with her for long as I have other relatives. I was just there cuz she lives near the airport and picked me up, and I decided to at least stay until I got my delayed luggage.

Both she and her husband are retired but her husband volunteers at a credit union in Paraiso during the week so he takes the only (working) car during the weekdays. My cousin stays at home all day and never goes outside except to hang up the clothes to dry. Anywhere she goes she is driven. The daughter, Bambi, that lives with them sits around the house all day doing chores (its not that much to do cuz this ain't the country) and running errands for her mother, while the 12 yearold granddaughter, Linny, helps and the 4-year old grandson,Eán, plays.

If I went anywhere its was with Bambi and that was only to the local stores and stuff. My aunt met me and Bambi and the bus stop one day and we went to Panama City but that was it. My days of boredom were long but I sustained myself with playing with Eán along with my capoeira. I practiced in the gated area in front of the house when the car was gone and early in the morning I went to the side of the house which is a small neighborhood playground tha ti can tell is not used anymore. A sign says "no jugando futból" and back when I was last here that is all that was done there. Oh well...

So 6 to 8 in the morning i was out practicing my movements and the early morning neighbors got to see the strange, scary man dancing? Bambi and Linny are friends with some of the neighbors and told me that they were curious about me and what i was doing (of course they would be). One neighbor said she saw me and told here daughter to come back inside the house. LOL! Throughout the day I would go and practice more in the gated area or I would just play my berimbau for hours at time. Passers by would look with curiosity and keep walking. Never would they greet me or smile. Not very friendly...

So last Sunday it all came to a boil. When i got up in the morning to practice, my cousin told me "Don't go out there this early, someone will snatch you up, do it inside" (inside includes the outside gated area. I reluctantly concede. One of the reasons I got out to do it is because the car is in the gated area in the morning and there is no room. ĄDemoncio! I did a few pushups and other stuff then went to the shower and back to bed.

Later my cousin tells me that people are talking about me and asking alot of questions. She claims that I'm creating a disturbance in the neighborhood and that when I leave I will be the "talk of the town." She claims that Panamanians have a different culture and don't get up that early and don't do things like that (all bs but i let her talk.)

"In the states you can do that and people will crowd around you and cheer but here people look at you and think you are a fool," she claims.

Can somebody please explain to me WTF she is talking about? Where the fuck does this happen? Think I'm a fool? If only she knew the looks I get from people everyday in the states when I do shit.

Eventough i know she is talking nonsense, to correct in ANYWAY would be totally disrespectful. I learned the hard way from my grandfather as a child when i told him that Kareem Abdul-Jabaar was the name of the Lakers player ( he said somethin else that i can't remember ahora). So I let her talk said ok and watched tv. Later on when I couldn't make myself watch anymore tv I went and go my berimbau and went outside to play.

I played for awhile and then heard "Lando, what is da meanin uv dat?" Uh, oh... I went inside and she said that she has seen guys playing that and they were "llamando sus dios." Dios = God. She claims that the instrument is calling the "spirits" and that she is and Episcopalian and only believes in the Episopal and Catholic God (that white mofo that she has plastered up all over her house). I don't tell her that she is wrong (because in all honesty she isn't this time) but i tell her that the berimbau tells the people playing capoeria what kind of game to play. Whatever. She doesn't care and tells me not to play it anymore... (At this point I know i must leave soon)

(BTW didn't we just have a discussion about this in the "Religious Justification" post? Werenīt there some people claiming that playing capoeira doesnīt interfere with oneīs religion? Yeah yall need to get real.)
Later when I'm sitting on my ass not doing shit, bored out of my mind and trapped in the house. I go to the gated area to play around with Eán. I go and play with him doing capoeira movements while he runs around. My cousin calls me in and scolds me for doing that. She tells me that I can't do that anymore and tells me that she just heard a little girl pass by and call me a "resbaloso" (panamanians leave the "s" silent). She explains that a "resbaloso" is a one of those people during carnival who jumps around.

"is it a bad thing?" I asked.

"Orlando you{re not listening to me, don't do those tings here, this is not the states, this is a different culture!"

I found out later that resbaloso means "slippery". These men during crnival are usually covered in oil and appear slippery. They playfully chase you around for money (small change) and wear scary masks or weird wigs. I remember them now as when I was young I remember seeing this guy greased up with his shirt off and wearing cut off jeans. It looked like he had a wig on (looked like a james brown wig) and he was covered in red paint which I think my mother said was pig blood.

That night I called my uncle and told him to pick me up the next morning and so I am there now. I had my luggage so I didn't need to be there anymore. Now I can play my capoeira again.

...continuaré luego...

____________________________
"the real pyramids were built with such precision that you can't slide a piece of paper between two 4,000 lb stones, and have shafts perfectly aligned so that you can see a tiny aperture through dozens of these mammoth blocks

  

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LexM
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27. "repression everywhere..."
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

guess it's just different kinds depending on where you're at at the time.

do you think the people might be a *little* more progressive where your uncle is?

_____________________________
~Remember you are not the general manager of the universe~

go listen to some jamiroquai. now. i mean it.

~~~~
http://omidele.blogspot.com/
http://rahareiki.tumblr.com/
http://seatofbliss.blogspot.com/

  

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Solarus
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Thu Aug-08-02 06:53 AM

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30. "Yes they are"
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

Many of the people, especially blacks in his area are Panamanians that moved back to Panama. It is a new area and all the houses are new (5 years or less). It is more of an upper middle class neighborhood compare to my cousin. The houses in his area start at $34,000 and big 2 stories are like $80,000. So alot of folks came back to Panama and are living it up now. Besides that the people in this area are more likely to be seen outside exercising in the morning and they are overall more friendly, black and latin alike. However a big difference was my aunt and uncle. They know their neighbors and introduced me to alot of folk, my cousin didn't do that and it really seemed that she was trying to hide me away from everyone.

____________________________
"the real pyramids were built with such precision that you can't slide a piece of paper between two 4,000 lb stones, and have shafts perfectly aligned so that you can see a tiny aperture through dozens of these mammoth blocks

  

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ochosigrand
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Thu Aug-08-02 06:52 AM

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29. "Thank you"
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

I'm learing alot. Was the neighborhood you were staying a middle class area?

  

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Solarus
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31. "YEs"
In response to Reply # 29
Thu Aug-08-02 07:45 AM

  

          

lower middle class. The thing is in Panama though, "lower class" is pure shit if you are in the city. Folks out in the bush would prolly be considered "lower class" or poor but it is not as bad as being in the city. Out there people make there own makeshift homes but never have to go hungry as there is food everywhere. Everywhere i go there is something growing on the trees i can eat. The city poor folk live in unsanitary conditions and have less access to food that they can pick or catch for themselves.

____________________________
"the real pyramids were built with such precision that you can't slide a piece of paper between two 4,000 lb stones, and have shafts perfectly aligned so that you can see a tiny aperture through dozens of these mammoth blocks

  

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ochosigrand
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Thu Aug-08-02 07:04 AM

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32. "Keep It Up"
In response to Reply # 31


  

          



Anywhere you go write an Okay thread f your experiences. I'm feelin this.



"the truth is more controversial than lies" Anonymous

  

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IsaIsaIsa
Charter member
posts
Thu Aug-08-02 07:10 AM

33. "shits crazy...who knew..also"
In response to Reply # 26


          

I learned the hard
>way from my grandfather as a child when i told him that
>Kareem Abdul-Jabaar was the name of the Lakers player ( he
>said somethin else that i can't remember ahora). -------------
----------
havent we all!

  

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ochosigrand
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Thu Aug-08-02 10:44 AM

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35. "La Musica?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

What music is popular in Panama?

  

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guerilla_love
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Fri Aug-09-02 01:51 AM

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37. "tipico"
In response to Reply # 35


          

to the uninitiated, all the songs sound the same

.....

"Who need fossil fuel when the sun ain't goin' nowhere"
- Amiri Baraka

http://www.okayplayer.com/guidelines

BUY MY BOOK- only $6! Inbox me for details

  

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raool
Member since Jul 10th 2002
12355 posts
Fri Aug-09-02 02:37 AM

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38. "Are they more into Merengue?"
In response to Reply # 37


          

I know there is a lot of reggae comiong out of Panama,no?

  

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guerilla_love
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39. "a LOT of reggaespanol"
In response to Reply # 38


          

and merengue, salsa, soca, .....

.....

"Who need fossil fuel when the sun ain't goin' nowhere"
- Amiri Baraka

http://www.okayplayer.com/guidelines

BUY MY BOOK- only $6! Inbox me for details

  

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El Chombo
Member since Aug 10th 2002
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Fri Aug-16-02 01:30 PM

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44. "RE: a LOT of reggaespanol"
In response to Reply # 39


  

          

Lo llamamos plena, but yeah a lot of that, and plenty Salsa...and surprise surprise, we love that U.S. pop phenomenon

____________________________________________________________

"One writes, in reality, for the people whose luck or misfortune one identifies with - the hungry, the sleepless, the rebels, and the wretched of this earth - and the majority of them are ill

  

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PANCHO_TORTILLA
Member since May 20th 2002
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Mon Sep-16-02 10:43 AM

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133. "RE: a LOT of reggaespanol"
In response to Reply # 44


          

the only band i know of is "los rabanes"....who else do people listen too that play reggaespanol??

  

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LaMorena
Member since Jun 14th 2002
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Mon Sep-16-02 04:49 PM

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137. "RE: La Musica?"
In response to Reply # 35


          

One man...sums it all up...

Ruben Blades....!!!!!!!

The man ran for the presidency...obviously..didn't have much "apollo"...but his intentions were greatly appreciated..!!
Wanted to make a difference, yet most of the countries (Panama) "interests" weren't for the people...but for the state...y otro "metido"...that I rather not mention...!!!

Mr.Blades music is one that makes u reflect...and makes u imagine the REALITY of what Latin America goes through....each and everyday...!!

The REALITY that most of us dont get to see...on this side of the ...Rio Grande...!!!

Bendicion...

Giselle...

PS...y pa' el muchacho (Solarus) que esta escribiendo su vaina aca...Looks Lovely Man...keep it up !!! =o)



  

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Solarus
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Sat Aug-10-02 01:34 PM

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40. ""
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Panama is one of those places that makes vegetarianism fun AND AFFORDABLE! Produce down here is done how it should be done: Cheap and Organic (Mostly). I donīt know and doubt there are any true organic certification boards here but alot of the stuff here grows with little human intervention thus I know alot of this stuff is organic. There are banana,plantain, coconut, papaya, and mango trees everywhere. I can say Iīve noticed that there are alot less of these trees since I was last here mainly because of the increase of building and road construction here but there are still alot around. especially when you go into the residential areas. I went to one personīs house who had 2 huge mango trees both with trunks with more than 2 feet diameters. There were mangos all over the yard.

Because of the high accessibility to produce most of it is extremely cheap in comparison to U.S. prices. Bananas and plantain are usually 10 cents a lb.; coconuts for 25 cents each; mangos 25 cents for 4 ; pineapples for $1.00 each; and the lists goes on. Then thereīs all the new stuff Iīm learning about and old stuff that I donīt get to eat too often because of inaccessibility in the states or just extremely high costs.

Iīm also takign this opportunity to learn how to prepare some panamanian dishes that I didnīt know how to prepare before. There are dishes that are traditionally vegetarian and a few that can be altered a little bit. There is the coconut rice and guandu peas dish that is common amongst WEst Indians, then fried mash green plantain called patacones, a myriad of ways to prepare yucca and plantain, a dessert called yucca pon (used to love it as a kid), a porridge made with okra and cornmeal called coocoo, etc.

Oh then there is a vegetarian restaurant here called Mireya that I went too. The ownersīhave two locations but Iīve only been to one in El Dorado. That place have to be the least expensive veggie joint Iīve ever been too. THe food is good, cheap and vegan (besides the honey). I got a big plate of food for less than $5.00. That is unheard of in the states. In the states one is virtually punished for choosing not to eat meat. That isnīt the case down here.

All this talk about food... I think Iīm hungry.

...continuarč luego...

____________________________
"the real pyramids were built with such precision that you can't slide a piece of paper between two 4,000 lb stones, and have shafts perfectly aligned so that you can see a tiny aperture through dozens of these mammoth blocks

  

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Solarus
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41. ""
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Iīve been noticing an interesting sentiment with my family and other chombos. Many of the chombos, especially those that still speak English, want the United States to come back to Panama. The reason largely surrounds the fact that the Panamanian government is corrupt and incompetent. Since 2000 the only public projects that have taken place are those that usually involve the overall financial benefit for private investors, such as better roads in commercial areas. Although, Panama is in a state of growth and development (moreso than pre-2000), there are still a lack of jobs.

ALL of the American bases (an Airforce, Army and naval base), were given to the Panamanian government free of charge. Iīve been to the Airforce and army bases in the past and recently. They were huge were mini cities within themselves. The Clayton Army base could easily be a university as it has athletic equipment/buildings and office buildings. It would be a perfect addition to el Universidad de Panama. In fact the whole school would be better off there as the buildings at its current location are shit. They look like they are about to be condemned.

But in the real world, the Panamanian government is money hungry. All of the bases are being underused with parts not used at all. Many decent homes (nice compared to some of the areas Iīve been too) have been abandoned as are office buildings. They are there just collecting dust. The government is basically waiting for buyers for the bases. Iīm not sure but I think they are not selling for ownership but simply leasing the space. A friend of the family is in charge of everyting that goes on at the Clayton location and he has told me that he works for La Cuidad Del Saber, a governmental organization created to deal with the use of the bases.

Then Panama has never been a tourist country but now moves are being made to make it so. Most of these moves are being made by a few of the Panamanian rich and many foreign investors. Add it up together, very little of the movers and shakers are black. Thus many of the chombos feel trapped. It is hard to find work and pay for a good education in Panama and is even moreso for the blacks. When the US was here, many of the chombos found there escape through the US. Many joined the military or worked on the Canal Zone and gained American citizenship. With easy access to American citizenship, they could come here to school, and/or live. In America it is alot easier to climb the socieconomic ladder than it is in Panama. In fact it very advantageous to move to America, climb the ladder and MOVE BACK to Panama.

Everyone in my family that is still in Panama lived and worked in the US for at least a year. My retired uncle is planning on living with his son in the US (free of charge of course) for a year, while working, so he can buy a new (used) van. Once he gets his van, heīll have it shipped back to Panama and return. It doesnīt cost that much to do so and back pre-2000, canal workers could have it done for free.

If you think about it in a historical context, the West Indian blacks were brought (came) here because of the US and were loyal workers for years and now the US is gone. Even though years of assimilation and acceptance to panamanian society has occurred, the fact remains that they are still at the bottom of the totempole in somewhat of a "foreign" place. Iīve been finding out recently that many of my relatives and other West Indians are RETURNING to the islands, if not to the US itself.

Oh well, Jamaica here we come.

____________________________
"the real pyramids were built with such precision that you can't slide a piece of paper between two 4,000 lb stones, and have shafts perfectly aligned so that you can see a tiny aperture through dozens of these mammoth blocks

  

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El Chombo
Member since Aug 10th 2002
117 posts
Fri Aug-16-02 03:16 PM

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45. ""
In response to Reply # 41


  

          

>Iīve been noticing an interesting sentiment with my family
>and other chombos. Many of the chombos, especially those
>that still speak English, want the United States to come
>back to Panama.

Really? Most of my family and friends in Panama were damm happy the gringos left and are even happier now, not for any economic or political reason, just the symbolism of it all. You should have been there on the Millenium, patriotism was at an all time high, "!El canal es nuestro!"

The reason largely surrounds the fact that
>the Panamanian government is corrupt and incompetent.

Replace the Panamanian government with that of Mireya Moscoso, shes a dumb bitch milking her husbands name for her benefit, shes the corrupt one...noone knows how she won the elections now, and they all want her out now.

Since
>2000 the only public projects that have taken place are
>those that usually involve the overall financial benefit for
>private investors, such as better roads in commercial areas.

Its always been like that, first with the drug dealers (check out Punta Paitilla en la Ciudad de Panama), and now with the wealthier people. Banks have few restrictions and turn a blind eye to investors business just to make money, so theres a lot of dirty money in Panama. And the free zone is all beneficial towards private investors as well, thats where Panama's wealth comes from.

> Although, Panama is in a state of growth and development
>(moreso than pre-2000), there are still a lack of jobs.
>
>ALL of the American bases (an Airforce, Army and naval
>base), were given to the Panamanian government free of
>charge. Iīve been to the Airforce and army bases in the
>past and recently. They were huge were mini cities within
>themselves. The Clayton Army base could easily be a
>university as it has athletic equipment/buildings and office
>buildings.

Nobody wants to move there because el gringo used to live there, and because its hella expensive.

It would be a perfect addition to el Universidad
>de Panama. In fact the whole school would be better off
>there as the buildings at its current location are shit.
>They look like they are about to be condemned.

Hehehehe, when I was there 3 weeks ago, the graduate department had daily blackouts because they had failed to pay their electricity bills for all of 2002

>
>But in the real world, the Panamanian government is money
>hungry. All of the bases are being underused with parts not
>used at all. Many decent homes (nice compared to some of
>the areas Iīve been too) have been abandoned as are office
>buildings. They are there just collecting dust. The
>government is basically waiting for buyers for the bases.
>Iīm not sure but I think they are not selling for ownership
>but simply leasing the space. A friend of the family is in
>charge of everyting that goes on at the Clayton location and
>he has told me that he works for La Cuidad Del Saber, a
>governmental organization created to deal with the use of
>the bases.
>
>Then Panama has never been a tourist country but now moves
>are being made to make it so. Most of these moves are being
>made by a few of the Panamanian rich and many foreign
>investors.

The foreign investors are all Colombian, and the Panamanian rich are all Colombian first generation as well, all the movers and shakers are Colombian, the white and mulatto Panamanian aint getting much of that money either, Colombian bussiness men and drug dealers are taking over the country, Have you been to the Decameron resort?, owned by Colombians...
Btw....we're not very good at this whole tourist thing, our resorts suck

Add it up together, very little of the movers
>and shakers are black. Thus many of the chombos feel
>trapped. It is hard to find work and pay for a good
>education in Panama and is even moreso for the blacks. When
>the US was here, many of the chombos found there escape
>through the US. Many joined the military or worked on the
>Canal Zone and gained American citizenship. With easy
>access to American citizenship, they could come here to
>school, and/or live. In America it is alot easier to climb
>the socieconomic ladder than it is in Panama. In fact it
>very advantageous to move to America, climb the ladder and
>MOVE BACK to Panama.
>
>Everyone in my family that is still in Panama lived and
>worked in the US for at least a year. My retired uncle is
>planning on living with his son in the US (free of charge of
>course) for a year, while working, so he can buy a new
>(used) van. Once he gets his van, heīll have it shipped
>back to Panama and return. It doesnīt cost that much to do
>so and back pre-2000, canal workers could have it done for
>free.
>
>If you think about it in a historical context, the West
>Indian blacks were brought (came) here because of the US and
>were loyal workers for years and now the US is gone.

Hey, sounds like some of my fam...

Even
>though years of assimilation and acceptance to panamanian
>society has occurred, the fact remains that they are still
>at the bottom of the totempole in somewhat of a "foreign"
>place. Iīve been finding out recently that many of my
>relatives and other West Indians are RETURNING to the
>islands, if not to the US itself.
>
>Oh well, Jamaica here we come.

Jamaica, gorgeous place, loadsa problems as well, you think politics in Panama are corrupt?, You aint seen nothing yet, just to think, I'm half Jamaican as well

____________________________________________________________

"One writes, in reality, for the people whose luck or misfortune one identifies with - the hungry, the sleepless, the rebels, and the wretched of this earth - and the majority of them are ill

  

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Solarus
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Tue Aug-20-02 06:43 AM

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56. "El Universidad pobre de Panama"
In response to Reply # 45


  

          

That school looks pretty sad. My cousin goes there for grad school and she told me about their inability to pay bills. A guy I know that is the supervisor for the entire Clayton Airforce base (now called El Ciudad del Saber) told me that a that an intra-Central American fencing tournament was that was originally scheduled to be at the universidad was relocated to Clayton because the universidad had no lights.

Itīs a damn shame.

____________________________
"the real pyramids were built with such precision that you can't slide a piece of paper between two 4,000 lb stones, and have shafts perfectly aligned so that you can see a tiny aperture through dozens of these mammoth blocks

  

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FireBrand
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Sat Aug-17-02 05:55 PM

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48. "Word?..Jamaiaca has it's issues too man..."
In response to Reply # 41


  

          

Mi abuelo de mi papa es de Panama, y although shit might be bad, and he left way before shit really hit the fan, shit in JA is fucked up too. The Dons run things, the cops don't fucking care, and the government isn't that powerful. In certain areas it is str8 up lawlessness, and while that might sound refreshing to us who deal wit police brutatlity and profiling, it is refreshing to know that for the most part "justice", and protection is a phone call away.

My uncle has like 6 killer dogs, 2 gaurds, bars, and a system, and de dread dem still found a way to break in, and do some unspeakable shit. He knows who did it, and can do nothing, and these men still roam the streets...

...it's frustrating. The diaspora needs us to find solutions.

-------------
avatar?
"...take you back in time like sankofa- sankofa"

"Well, when your every breath and will to live is an act of resistance, you cannot help but be 'too political'. To do otherwise is to hide, to live in denial and defeat." --ArabHottie

" If we can't learn to live together despite the turmoil of past generations we are doomed." -Stern


"And where today is the stable community that would sustain such a couple, where one can be both poor and diginified and raise one's children with decency and hope... If the answer is education, does our society adequateley provide that tool of self-improvement to the less well off?"-- Sidney Poitier

" I'm not mad 'cus I'm losing! I'm mad 'cus I don't know how to win!" --Kevin Curtis Daniels Jr.

"And herein lies the tragedy of the age: not that men are poor,-all men know something of poverty; not that men are wicked,-who is good? Not that men are ignorant, -what is Truth? Nay, but that men know so little of men."
W.E.B. Dubois


"Slaves got options...cowards aint got shit." --PS
"Once upon a time, little need existed for making the distinction between a nigga and a black—at least not in this country, the place where niggas were invented" -- Donnell A

  

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El Chombo
Member since Aug 10th 2002
117 posts
Sat Aug-17-02 06:37 PM

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49. "RE: Word?..Jamaiaca has it's issues too man..."
In response to Reply # 48


  

          

>Mi abuelo de mi papa es de Panama, y although shit might be
>bad, and he left way before shit really hit the fan, shit in
>JA is fucked up too. The Dons run things, the cops don't
>fucking care, and the government isn't that powerful. In
>certain areas it is str8 up lawlessness, and while that
>might sound refreshing to us who deal wit police brutatlity
>and profiling, it is refreshing to know that for the most
>part "justice", and protection is a phone call away.
>
>My uncle has like 6 killer dogs, 2 gaurds, bars, and a
>system, and de dread dem still found a way to break in, and
>do some unspeakable shit. He knows who did it, and can do
>nothing, and these men still roam the streets...

Talk about fucked up, when my mom lived in Kingston, way back, she got mugged 3 times in the driveway of her own house, once when she was pregnant with me and then another time she was beaten to an inch of her death. And the woman still claims she loves that place and would go back in a second.....

>
>...it's frustrating. The diaspora needs us to find
>solutions.
>

____________________________________________________________

"One writes, in reality, for the people whose luck or misfortune one identifies with - the hungry, the sleepless, the rebels, and the wretched of this earth - and the majority of them are ill

  

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Solarus
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Fri Aug-16-02 10:04 AM

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42. ""
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Iīve been exploring all the nooks and crannies of Panama Province for the past few days. Right now, my going and staying in Colon is looking very bleak. I definitely will go to Portobelo before I leave but my contacts in Colon haveīt fell through.

Anyways, I did a few touristy things like go to the zoo. First El Parque de Summit (the zoo) is seriously lacking in financial support. The average Panamanian hasnīt been and probably will never go to the zoo. It costs a dollar to get in and is way out in the bush, past Paraiso (where my mother grew up), right before Gamboa. Gamboa is actually pretty nice. It seems like a small neighborhood that has been cut out of the jungle right along the Panama Canal. There is a Smithsonian Tropical institute out there and some homes. I noticed alot of Directv dishes on the homes and I found out from the bus driver that alot of americans live out there. Oh well...

The Summit have a few animals there but most of them looked lonely and frustrated. Some had better living spaces than others and then a few of the animals were all by themselves with no other animals in there species to accompany them. Those animals in particular seem to take a great interest in me as I was like 1 of 4 visitors in the whole park. And as i walked around I never saw the other vistors, except when leaving. At least I finally got to see the gato solos that I have been hearing about. Also known as the coatimundi, they look like a mix between a raccoon and possum and live much like racoons. However they are a little more dangerously than racoons as they are a little bigger and have sharper claws but from what i hear they are generally not aggressive, only when provoked.

There were spiders all over the zoo that looked like THEY should have been in cages. DAMN they were big. Other than that the spider monkeys were pretty cool. Most of the cages at this zoo werenīt very secure. Even though the animals were in cages, one could easily stick a finger or arm close enough to the gate to get bitten or clawed. I grabbed one of the coatimundiīs claw myself but it didnīt seem to mind. At the spider monkey cage i had a ball. They were so cute, grabbing and begging for something. They looked like little black kids beggin for somethin. Yeah i said it. Niggaz is monkeys.

I had two huge leaves that I was using as makeshift umbrellas and they kept grabbing for it. One persistent monkey snatched it away from me. I could tell they were wanting some attention because they knew i didnīt have anything after awhile but continued to follow me. I would run back and forth around the cage and they would follow me around the fence.

I could grabb their whole arms because they were so close. There were warning signs everywhere saying donīt get close but I know that some young children could easily get hurt there if not careful. My uncle told me that he fell into the crocodile pond as a kid and almost ended up caiman food. He didnīt though.

Although I had fun with the monkeys, this was a pretty pitiful zoo and just further exposes the fact that people of Panama are poor as hell and the government doesnīt give a damn.

...continuarčmos luegos...

____________________________
"the real pyramids were built with such precision that you can't slide a piece of paper between two 4,000 lb stones, and have shafts perfectly aligned so that you can see a tiny aperture through dozens of these mammoth blocks

  

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Brooklynbeef
Member since May 30th 2002
4649 posts
Fri Aug-16-02 12:43 PM

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43. "Indios"
In response to Reply # 42


  

          

Solarus,

You said Blacks were at the bottom of the socio-economic ladder in Panama. I thought it was the Indigeneous people!?

Hmmmmmmmmm

"Forget Black History Month, how about live an African History Life"-Ansley Burrows

  

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Solarus
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Mon Aug-19-02 10:23 AM

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51. "Los Indios"
In response to Reply # 43


  

          

From what Iīve seen here, the indians seem to not even EXIST in the ladder as they stick to there own communities and some live as they have lived for years. THe ones that leave and join the Panamanian rat race often blend in to the cholo team with ease. Also some indian groups seem to have alot of solidarity which always will improve oneīs situation. THe Kuna Indians in San Blas have been making strides at economic development and own their land. I donīt much about others as of yet but Iīll see what i can find.

____________________________
"the real pyramids were built with such precision that you can't slide a piece of paper between two 4,000 lb stones, and have shafts perfectly aligned so that you can see a tiny aperture through dozens of these mammoth blocks

  

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PANCHO_TORTILLA
Member since May 20th 2002
154 posts
Mon Sep-09-02 06:57 PM

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118. "RE: Los Indios"
In response to Reply # 51


          

didn't mana sing a song about "el muelle del san blas"...sounds familiar...

and this post has been around for a long muthatruckin' time....i read one of your posts..and your familia is weird..i like reading some of the things are said and done in the colonia...

  

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kemetian
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Sat Aug-17-02 04:49 PM

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47. "Ain't nobody forgettin' you"
In response to Reply # 42


  

          

you really goin to JA or are you teasing, cuz i would just beg u sen' mi some roast breadfruit.

did i tell you you are in the acknowledgements of my thesis? thanks for your help.

Kemetian
--------------------------------------
check it out:
www.natureworksforyou.co
m

"Pour libation for your father
and mother who rest in the
valley of the dead. God will
witness your action and
accept it. Do not forget to
do this

  

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Solarus
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Mon Aug-19-02 10:40 AM

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52. "figure of speech"
In response to Reply # 47


  

          

Iīm not going to JA anytime soon, I just said "Oh well, off to Jamaica..." as a representative of the sentiment that seems to being going on in the minds of many chombos, along with going to Barbados and the US for that matter.

Iīll make it to JA someday though, although it is pretty far down my list.

Besides there are too many ugly tourists and silly RAstas in JA. If I felt like being surrounded by white tourists (and tourists in general) and having mofo after mofo coming up to me saying
"SELASSIE I! I n I JAHRASTAFARIEADAFSDJFOSDFJOAFJLREJKFDLAF," I would just stay in DC.

____________________________
"the real pyramids were built with such precision that you can't slide a piece of paper between two 4,000 lb stones, and have shafts perfectly aligned so that you can see a tiny aperture through dozens of these mammoth blocks

  

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guerilla_love
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Tue Aug-20-02 01:47 AM

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54. "misconceptions........"
In response to Reply # 52


          

depends on where ya travellin

the only white people i saw in jamaica who weren't at the airport were me an my friend

.....

"Who need fossil fuel when the sun ain't goin' nowhere"
- Amiri Baraka

http://www.okayplayer.com/guidelines

BUY MY BOOK- only $6! Inbox me for details

  

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kemetian
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Mon Sep-16-02 10:40 AM

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132. "misconceptions II"
In response to Reply # 52


  

          

>Iīm not going to JA anytime soon, I just said "Oh well, off
>to Jamaica..." as a representative of the sentiment that
>seems to being going on in the minds of many chombos, along
>with going to Barbados and the US for that matter.
>
>Iīll make it to JA someday though, although it is pretty far
>down my list.
>
>Besides there are too many ugly tourists and silly RAstas in
>JA. If I felt like being surrounded by white tourists (and
>tourists in general) and having mofo after mofo coming up to
>me saying
>"SELASSIE I! I n I
>JAHRASTAFARIEADAFSDJFOSDFJOAFJLREJKFDLAF," I would just stay
>in DC.


there are plenty ugly tourists in JA, but you don't have to see them. the same w/ rastas, they are not as prevalent in society as tv would have us believe. they pretty much stay in their own communities. and you will definitely NOT have anyone coming up to you like that. altho' when i touched down in ethiopia, many of the children, who came up to me to beg for $$ at the airport said that exact thing. i guess the headwrap fooled them.

Kemetian
--------------------------------------
check it out:
www.natureworksforyou.co
m

"Pour libation for your father
and mother who rest in the
valley of the dead. God will
witness your action and
accept it. Do not forget to
do this

  

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Archaic
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10486 posts
Fri Aug-16-02 08:52 PM

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46. "RE: Panama: Mi Comentario"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Hey Solarus, I've really been enjoying your commentary, especially because I spent so much time in Panama as a kid back in the 70's. Back then both sides of my family were based in Panama. My paternal grandfather was a ship's captain who was paid to guide vessels through the canal. And my maternal grandfather was an engineer who worked on the Gatun locks. Both of my parents and all of my aunts and uncles graduated from Cristobal High School. Over the years everyone of them has moved to the States, but at family gatherings Panama is always a prominent topic. Everyone of us misses it so much.

I used to love to venture through neighborhoods that had no fences, pulling fruit from any tree. A walk into the jungle is never too far away. My grandpa used to capture insects and then embalm them. My uncle still has a huge wooden case filled with some of the freakiest bugs anyone in the States could ever even imagine. Have you ever seen a giant rhinosaurus beetle? Holy shit. And I can still say that some of the best fishing that I've ever done was in Gatun Lake. Also I got a chance to visit the San Blas islands, where Molas come from. That was a great trip not only because I got to interact with such a primitive culture, but also because of the snorkeling. Indeed the Pacific coast is gorgeous. And you're right to think that Colon is a hip city. Too bad that the train connecting the coasts got shut down a few years back. That really hurt Panama in a big way. What I remember the most about Panama City, aside from playing in a basketball league there in 1981, is the altar of gold and eating at some Italian spot that served up the best clams that I have ever had.

Anyway I could go on for days. But it does hurt that it's been 21 years since I last visted Panama. So in the meantime I am living vicariously through you. I just hope that you get the chance to see other parts of the country, because there is much beauty all around you.

  

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Jennyfer
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Sat Aug-17-02 09:20 PM

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50. "Espero que tu tengas un buen viaje!"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Interesting adventures.

Te cuidas.
Paz a ti y tu familia.

  

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orlando
Member since Jul 29th 2002
14581 posts
Mon Aug-19-02 10:47 AM

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53. "wait...."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

you got people in Panama too?

that's freaky

(this is/was BooDaah)

  

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Solarus
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Tue Aug-20-02 06:30 AM

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55. "I met"
In response to Reply # 53


  

          

a friend of my auntīs down here who told me i look just like her son in California who has locks. His name was "Orlando."

Whatīs more freakier???

____________________________
"the real pyramids were built with such precision that you can't slide a piece of paper between two 4,000 lb stones, and have shafts perfectly aligned so that you can see a tiny aperture through dozens of these mammoth blocks

  

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Brooklynbeef
Member since May 30th 2002
4649 posts
Tue Aug-20-02 06:50 AM

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57. "Brewster's in Panama"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          



Most of mi familia is from Trinidad. My mother's father is Bajan and he's from Christ Church Barbados. I just found out that they're Brewsters in Panama. How can I find out about them?



"Forget Black History Month, how about live an African History Life"-Ansley Burrows

  

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Solarus
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Tue Aug-20-02 07:24 AM

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58. "Mas despacio, por favor."
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Aug-20-02 07:30 AM

  

          

mastering spanish is going to take longer than i thought. I donīt think a month here will do it. Definitely two months but a month... I dunno. If the people in my family spoke more spanish around me, that would help out but alas they are damn chombos who have to speak english all the time. Itīs funny too. When i ask them about certain words, phrases, kwk., they draw blank faces and say their spanish is bad and donīt know.

However I can understand why now. The majority of my family (on my motherīs side anyway) grew up in the Canal Zone which was officially considered American territory. People born in the Canal Zone, were granted American citizenship along with Panamanian citizenship. The schools in that area only instructed in English. Alot of older chombos Iīve met learned spanish in their teens or even older because they never needed to use it.

Now things are different. There is no more Canal Zone thus the use of English is slowly fading away. It already started fading away years ago but now it is fadng more rapidly. I have plenty of relatives who speak no English. Especially those relatives who are mixed with the cholos. The Latins here very seldomly speak english.

Anyways, Iīm beginning to actually "hear" the words now when someone speaks. ALthough, I may not know what they mean or do know what they mean but need time to mentally translate the words to english. At this point sentence structure is killing me when speaking. I just watched a movie in portuguese and had to read spanish subtitles and did so with ease. I can read pretty well but the difference in sentence structure between english and spanish is still hard for me to decipher orally. But everyday things get a little better.

The other thing is the lazy ass Panamanian tongue. bastards speak so fast because they drop off syllables and shit. I know the secret now. For the longest i was trying to figure out why people would say "Also" when they were in agreement with something. The word for "also" is "tambien." What they are saying is "īta bien" short for "estā bien" or " itīs good/okay." The "es" sound is frequently dropped off of words as carrying that "s" takes up time.
EG.
"ma tarde" for "mas tardes"- later
"dos dolas" for " dos dolares"- two dollars

But that is a rule in general to leave off syllables and words altogether. Noone here says "Buenos dias" or "Buenos tardes" or "Buenas noches." Usually youīll just get a "Bueno" or "Buena." Sometimes if you are lucky, you might get a whole "Buenos" with the "s" at the end.

Another issue is the slang. People be sayin shit that ainīt in my dictionary all the time which , of course, is to be expected. The funniest term i heard was "So Pā" = Whatīs up. Basically its " pasó" as in "Que Pasō." I thought it was pretty creative. Then there is "caerse"= to fall down which in slang terms can me "to like someone." For instance " Me cayo su amigo." Literally doesnīt make sense as it means " I fall down your friend," but in slang terms means " I like your friend." Iīve been learnign the profanity down here too like "Chucha"=fuck or "puta"=whore/prostitute.

Letīs not even get into gross chombo Spanglish. Jeez. Iīm trying to learn spanish, give me a break.

Why canīt everyone speak like those guys on those spanish tapes we had to listen too in school.

Like this:

Me llamo Juan.

**pauses for 2 seconds**

Me llamo Juan.
**************

If only... Damn real-life people.

____________________________
"the real pyramids were built with such precision that you can't slide a piece of paper between two 4,000 lb stones, and have shafts perfectly aligned so that you can see a tiny aperture through dozens of these mammoth blocks

  

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Utamaroho
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59. "get music"
In response to Reply # 58


  

          

definitely...and just keep playing it like you would a hip hop album. then it'll come, the speed that is.

duwayne's pretty tight, from listening to shit w/ catrice 'n all... and had these cassette tape s that were AWESOME for developing "hearing/understanding" speed. talking along with the music developes the speaking speed.

hey. if cats can say Bone Thugs 'n Harmony lyrics...they can learn spanish!

Red, Black, Green

  

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Utamaroho
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60. "oh yeah."
In response to Reply # 59


  

          

you hear any panamanian rap? i heard it was tight!

Red, Black, Green

  

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Solarus
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61. ""
In response to Reply # 60


  

          

from the people Iīve spoken too, "rap" isnīt that popular down here. The closest youīll find is dancehall reggae stuff. But alot of these cats down here will just sample all of the pouplar US hiphop beats and do reggae to it.

The most popular "rap" down here is usually by folks from other countries in Latin America and US. Yes they know about Nelly and Puff Daddy down here...


____________________________
"the real pyramids were built with such precision that you can't slide a piece of paper between two 4,000 lb stones, and have shafts perfectly aligned so that you can see a tiny aperture through dozens of these mammoth blocks

  

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guerilla_love
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Tue Aug-20-02 07:38 AM

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62. "one time"
In response to Reply # 61


          

i was on one of those long, blasted air conditioning type buses where they showed hours of shakira and britney spears videos

.....

"Who need fossil fuel when the sun ain't goin' nowhere"
- Amiri Baraka

http://www.okayplayer.com/guidelines

BUY MY BOOK- only $6! Inbox me for details

  

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Solarus
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63. ""
In response to Reply # 62


  

          

A cousin of mine who is a 12 year old tall skinny darkskinned black girl had her room plastered with Shakira, Britney Spears, Christina Aguilera all over the wall and a first blonde blue-eyed dolls around the place. I stayed in her room when i first got here and slept on her bed with a white jesus hovering and watching over me as I slept. That my friend was HELL especially when I could no longer play my berimbau or play capoeira, there. I was suicidal at that point.

I hear britney spearsīmusic everywhere i go and most of these bammas canīt speak english.

____________________________
"the real pyramids were built with such precision that you can't slide a piece of paper between two 4,000 lb stones, and have shafts perfectly aligned so that you can see a tiny aperture through dozens of these mammoth blocks

  

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guerilla_love
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66. "my jaw dropped when i read that"
In response to Reply # 63


          

but i believe it

unfortunately

<<sigh>>

maybe next time we should bring black jesus and spread it quietly

.....

"Who need fossil fuel when the sun ain't goin' nowhere"
- Amiri Baraka

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Utamaroho
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67. "mine too."
In response to Reply # 66


  

          

yeah...that newbirth shut in is looking a LOT better now huh?

karma...gotta love it!

Red, Black, Green

  

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FireBrand
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74. "Yo...who went to newbirth?"
In response to Reply # 67


  

          

for real...I know alot of newbirth shut-ins now.

-------------
avatar?
"...take you back in time like sankofa- sankofa"

"Well, when your every breath and will to live is an act of resistance, you cannot help but be 'too political'. To do otherwise is to hide, to live in denial and defeat." --ArabHottie

" If we can't learn to live together despite the turmoil of past generations we are doomed." -Stern


"And where today is the stable community that would sustain such a couple, where one can be both poor and diginified and raise one's children with decency and hope... If the answer is education, does our society adequateley provide that tool of self-improvement to the less well off?"-- Sidney Poitier

" I'm not mad 'cus I'm losing! I'm mad 'cus I don't know how to win!" --Kevin Curtis Daniels Jr.

"And herein lies the tragedy of the age: not that men are poor,-all men know something of poverty; not that men are wicked,-who is good? Not that men are ignorant, -what is Truth? Nay, but that men know so little of men."
W.E.B. Dubois


"Slaves got options...cowards aint got shit." --PS
"Once upon a time, little need existed for making the distinction between a nigga and a black—at least not in this country, the place where niggas were invented" -- Donnell A

  

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ya Setshego
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145. "I visited Newbirth in Atlanta"
In response to Reply # 74


  

          

They gave away five cars during the sermon

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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Solarus
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68. "they got one in portobelo"
In response to Reply # 66


  

          

its funny the reactions I get from alotta people here about my hair. One of my cousin asked if i could get a job in the states with my hair like this and I told her Iīm a high school teacher. She was shocked and replied that that could never happen down here in Panama.

Then i asked, " What about in Colon?"

She said i would be a "dios" in Colon. Locks are practically worshipped up there. Even the hair of the Black Jesus reportedly is in locks. Iīve see pictures of the Black Jesus in Portobelo but I couldnīt tell if they were locks or not.

Anyways its interesting the seemingly extraordinary difference between blacks in Panama Province and the ones in Colon province. I have to go there for myself to see whatīs up. Iīm going next week.

____________________________
"the real pyramids were built with such precision that you can't slide a piece of paper between two 4,000 lb stones, and have shafts perfectly aligned so that you can see a tiny aperture through dozens of these mammoth blocks

  

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guerilla_love
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71. "be glad"
In response to Reply # 68


          

ur not on the ethiopian countryside where they (the police) shoot people for their locks

the provinces did seem to vary greatly.......

.....

"Who need fossil fuel when the sun ain't goin' nowhere"
- Amiri Baraka

http://www.okayplayer.com/guidelines

BUY MY BOOK- only $6! Inbox me for details

  

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Utamaroho
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Tue Aug-20-02 08:11 AM

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72. "why would they do that?"
In response to Reply # 71


  

          

?

Red, Black, Green

  

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guerilla_love
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73. "they are"
In response to Reply # 72


          

only accepted in the city

a friend of ours got threatened and had to return early

.....

"Who need fossil fuel when the sun ain't goin' nowhere"
- Amiri Baraka

http://www.okayplayer.com/guidelines

BUY MY BOOK- only $6! Inbox me for details

  

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ya Setshego
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144. "DAMN"
In response to Reply # 66


  

          

They even have a Black Jesus on the catholic church wall in Kenya...where have Panamanians heads been????
There's white greeting cards, and white everything else, television, etc. But Jesus? And the Madonna and Child paintings? Black. And their ceremonies, or whatever it's called that Catholics do every Sunday...you know...the processional? It's AFRICAN in Kenya! I mean, the children wear home-made outfits of Kente cloth and cotton, or kitenges(sarongs) of African cloth. They do REAL African dances during the processional(not made-up African-esque dances like the wop, which you might see in a Black American church). I know you might EXPECT that it be just this way since, it IS in Africa and all. Not so. Everything else seemed so Euro-centered, that to see an Africanized version of Catholic church ceremonies was mind-blowing to me. It was a complete fusion of European and African culture. The sermons were part in Kiswahili, part English. I understood nothing from the Kiswahili sermon, except for "Amani"(Peace) and Jesu Cristo(you know Who). And the Bibles were in Kiswahili.


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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Brooklynbeef
Member since May 30th 2002
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Tue Aug-20-02 07:51 AM

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65. "General"
In response to Reply # 62


  

          



I remember he did a spanish version of a soca tune by beckett called Teaser. You have it? I would lov to get my figer prints on it.

"Forget Black History Month, how about live an African History Life"-Ansley Burrows

  

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Brooklynbeef
Member since May 30th 2002
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Tue Aug-20-02 07:48 AM

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64. "RE: Mas despacio, por favor."
In response to Reply # 58


  

          

so pa as in wusup pa1?

>mastering spanish is going to take longer than i thought. I
>donīt think a month here will do it. Definitely two months
>but a month... I dunno. If the people in my family spoke
>more spanish around me, that would help out but alas they
>are damn chombos who have to speak english all the time.
>Itīs funny too. When i ask them about certain words,
>phrases, kwk., they draw blank faces and say their spanish
>is bad and donīt know.
>
>However I can understand why now. The majority of my family
>(on my motherīs side anyway) grew up in the Canal Zone which
>was officially considered American territory. People born
>in the Canal Zone, were granted American citizenship along
>with Panamanian citizenship. The schools in that area only
>instructed in English. Alot of older chombos Iīve met
>learned spanish in their teens or even older because they
>never needed to use it.
>
>Now things are different. There is no more Canal Zone thus
>the use of English is slowly fading away. It already
>started fading away years ago but now it is fadng more
>rapidly. I have plenty of relatives who speak no English.
>Especially those relatives who are mixed with the cholos.
>The Latins here very seldomly speak english.
>
>Anyways, Iīm beginning to actually "hear" the words now when
>someone speaks. ALthough, I may not know what they mean or
>do know what they mean but need time to mentally translate
>the words to english. At this point sentence structure is
>killing me when speaking. I just watched a movie in
>portuguese and had to read spanish subtitles and did so with
>ease. I can read pretty well but the difference in sentence
>structure between english and spanish is still hard for me
>to decipher orally. But everyday things get a little
>better.
>
>The other thing is the lazy ass Panamanian tongue. bastards
>speak so fast because they drop off syllables and shit. I
>know the secret now. For the longest i was trying to figure
>out why people would say "Also" when they were in agreement
>with something. The word for "also" is "tambien." What
>they are saying is "īta bien" short for "estā bien" or "
>itīs good/okay." The "es" sound is frequently dropped off
>of words as carrying that "s" takes up time.
>EG.
>"ma tarde" for "mas tardes"- later
>"dos dolas" for " dos dolares"- two dollars
>
>But that is a rule in general to leave off syllables and
>words altogether. Noone here says "Buenos dias" or "Buenos
>tardes" or "Buenas noches." Usually youīll just get a
>"Bueno" or "Buena." Sometimes if you are lucky, you might
>get a whole "Buenos" with the "s" at the end.
>
>Another issue is the slang. People be sayin shit that ainīt
>in my dictionary all the time which , of course, is to be
>expected. The funniest term i heard was "So Pā" = Whatīs
>up. Basically its " pasó" as in "Que Pasō." I thought it
>was pretty creative. Then there is "caerse"= to fall down
>which in slang terms can me "to like someone." For instance
>" Me cayo su amigo." Literally doesnīt make sense as it
>means " I fall down your friend," but in slang terms means "
>I like your friend." Iīve been learnign the profanity down
>here too like "Chucha"=fuck or "puta"=whore/prostitute.
>
>Letīs not even get into gross chombo Spanglish. Jeez. Iīm
>trying to learn spanish, give me a break.
>
>Why canīt everyone speak like those guys on those spanish
>tapes we had to listen too in school.
>
>Like this:
>
>Me llamo Juan.
>
>**pauses for 2 seconds**
>
>Me llamo Juan.
>**************
>
>If only... Damn real-life people.

"Forget Black History Month, how about live an African History Life"-Ansley Burrows

  

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Solarus
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69. "your guess is as"
In response to Reply # 64


  

          

good as mine. I thought it was probably "paso" reversed.

____________________________
"the real pyramids were built with such precision that you can't slide a piece of paper between two 4,000 lb stones, and have shafts perfectly aligned so that you can see a tiny aperture through dozens of these mammoth blocks

  

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El Chombo
Member since Aug 10th 2002
117 posts
Tue Aug-20-02 10:01 AM

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76. "RE: your guess is as"
In response to Reply # 69


  

          

>good as mine. I thought it was probably "paso" reversed.

Hehehe, I praise you in attempting to learn our lazy ass version of Spanish, check the official Spanish dictionary, there are loads of Panamanian words....

Ahuevado (deriving from huevon = big balls, but dont go screaming that shit round randomly)

and que sopa = que "paso" backwards...although it sounds damm stupid translated...."what soup???"

While your in Panama, try some Llame (yam), delicious!!!!!!
And btw, what part of la ciudad are you in???

____________________________________________________________

"One writes, in reality, for the people whose luck or misfortune one identifies with - the hungry, the sleepless, the rebels, and the wretched of this earth - and the majority of them are ill

  

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Solarus
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77. "Ahora"
In response to Reply # 76


  

          

Brisas del Golf, Provincio de Panama, cerca del aeropuerto internacional de Tocumen.

____________________________
"the real pyramids were built with such precision that you can't slide a piece of paper between two 4,000 lb stones, and have shafts perfectly aligned so that you can see a tiny aperture through dozens of these mammoth blocks

  

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El Chombo
Member since Aug 10th 2002
117 posts
Wed Aug-21-02 05:47 AM

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78. "Damm nice area"
In response to Reply # 77


  

          

>Brisas del Golf,

N/m

____________________________________________________________

"One writes, in reality, for the people whose luck or misfortune one identifies with - the hungry, the sleepless, the rebels, and the wretched of this earth - and the majority of them are ill

  

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PANCHO_TORTILLA
Member since May 20th 2002
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Mon Sep-09-02 07:07 PM

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119. "RE: Mas despacio, por favor."
In response to Reply # 58


          

that's kinda funny how you break it down....how you are learning spenich...

just keep your ears open and you'll learn a lot of crapola..


  

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Utamaroho
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70. "how long are you there?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

how much did you save to go?

school financed?

Red, Black, Green

  

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Solarus
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Tue Aug-20-02 08:19 AM

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75. "from July 30 to Sept 1"
In response to Reply # 70


  

          

saved only $250 cuz my second summer job didnīt fall through.

Iīm financing this myself. Staying with relatives.

____________________________
"the real pyramids were built with such precision that you can't slide a piece of paper between two 4,000 lb stones, and have shafts perfectly aligned so that you can see a tiny aperture through dozens of these mammoth blocks

  

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Solarus
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79. "Hierbas y Cosas"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

One thing I have noticed with many Panamanians is the heavy use and knowledge of herbs and plants in general. My aunt says this new generation grows increasingly more ignorant of the plants around them. I blame it on Mcdonalds.

Anyways drugs, cosmetics and any other chemical component used for the body costs money, and money has been something the majority of panamanians dont have. Plus there is much (free) access to a preponderance of herbs. I have only seen or head about a few things as my time here has been limited. There is a plant that my aunt uses for colds. You can just eat the leaf itself or make a tea with it. I still am not sure what the benefits of noni are, but recently i have noticed its popularity grow in the states. Its expensive as hell in DC but here noni fruit is virtually free as it grows everywhere. Its known for making you strong, around here.

Of course the variety of peppers available here are very popular and are known for being "good fa de art" (good for the heart). I think the most popular and widely used plant by far is aloe vera. Every relatives haouse that i have been too, grows aloe vera in their homes. The aunt who Im staying with grows, mint, tons of aloe vera, peppers, garlic, tomatoes and among other things. She uses aloe vera for skin hair and other stuff. The majority of people who use it seem to be women. They use it alot for their skin.

My aunt along with my mother spent many days in "de bush" with my greatgrandparents. Out there they got to learn about all the goodies surrounded them and their uses. She commented that back then in the bush and definitely in the city, one never saw tons of fruit laying on the ground after they had fallen from trees. Someone (or something) was always their to make use of the fruit. However today people dont take advantage of the fruits an other things surrounding them. Now they just go to the supermercado and by a $.50 box of macaroni and cheese hecho en los Estados Unidos.

____________________________
"the real pyramids were built with such precision that you can't slide a piece of paper between two 4,000 lb stones, and have shafts perfectly aligned so that you can see a tiny aperture through dozens of these mammoth blocks

  

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Utamaroho
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80. "please god..."
In response to Reply # 79


  

          

please leave out the commentaires about the supermercado and Kraft Macaroni and cheese... dear lord. reminds me of the haitians here who said they were RAISED to stay away from natural Coconut and instead opt for the canned variety. *slowly shakes head*

my mother now SELLS noni juice wholesale and is on the way to being vegetarian. who'd a thunk it? noni is GREAT for you, though i never knew it grew here in the west.

Red, Black, Green

  

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FireBrand
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Fri Aug-23-02 06:03 AM

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81. "Ah....sounds like Jamaica."
In response to Reply # 79


  

          

how refreshing...the old arts. My folks still grow mint and aloe at the house. As well as our own veggies. Damn buying that shit. We make our tea.

-------------
avatar?
"...take you back in time like sankofa- sankofa"

"Well, when your every breath and will to live is an act of resistance, you cannot help but be 'too political'. To do otherwise is to hide, to live in denial and defeat." --ArabHottie

" If we can't learn to live together despite the turmoil of past generations we are doomed." -Stern


"And where today is the stable community that would sustain such a couple, where one can be both poor and diginified and raise one's children with decency and hope... If the answer is education, does our society adequateley provide that tool of self-improvement to the less well off?"-- Sidney Poitier

" I'm not mad 'cus I'm losing! I'm mad 'cus I don't know how to win!" --Kevin Curtis Daniels Jr.

"And herein lies the tragedy of the age: not that men are poor,-all men know something of poverty; not that men are wicked,-who is good? Not that men are ignorant, -what is Truth? Nay, but that men know so little of men."
W.E.B. Dubois


"Slaves got options...cowards aint got shit." --PS
"Once upon a time, little need existed for making the distinction between a nigga and a black—at least not in this country, the place where niggas were invented" -- Donnell A

  

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guerilla_love
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Fri Aug-23-02 06:10 AM

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82. "cerasse?"
In response to Reply # 81


          

my own personal superstition: never move in without an aloe plant

i'm crazy about it! i take those damned plants *everywhere*!

.....

"Who need fossil fuel when the sun ain't goin' nowhere"
- Amiri Baraka

http://www.okayplayer.com/guidelines

BUY MY BOOK- only $6! Inbox me for details

  

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FireBrand
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Fri Aug-23-02 06:12 AM

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83. "I used to think it was a sickly cactus as a kid"
In response to Reply # 82


  

          

but my moms would break it open and use on cuts sometimes...or put it in our tea when we were sick.


-------------
avatar?
"...take you back in time like sankofa- sankofa"

"Well, when your every breath and will to live is an act of resistance, you cannot help but be 'too political'. To do otherwise is to hide, to live in denial and defeat." --ArabHottie

" If we can't learn to live together despite the turmoil of past generations we are doomed." -Stern


"And where today is the stable community that would sustain such a couple, where one can be both poor and diginified and raise one's children with decency and hope... If the answer is education, does our society adequateley provide that tool of self-improvement to the less well off?"-- Sidney Poitier

" I'm not mad 'cus I'm losing! I'm mad 'cus I don't know how to win!" --Kevin Curtis Daniels Jr.

"And herein lies the tragedy of the age: not that men are poor,-all men know something of poverty; not that men are wicked,-who is good? Not that men are ignorant, -what is Truth? Nay, but that men know so little of men."
W.E.B. Dubois


"Slaves got options...cowards aint got shit." --PS
"Once upon a time, little need existed for making the distinction between a nigga and a black—at least not in this country, the place where niggas were invented" -- Donnell A

  

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guerilla_love
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Fri Aug-23-02 06:32 AM

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84. "i swear"
In response to Reply # 83


          

no matter how many times i witness it aloe still amazes me

.....

"Who need fossil fuel when the sun ain't goin' nowhere"
- Amiri Baraka

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Brooklynbeef
Member since May 30th 2002
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Fri Aug-23-02 08:29 AM

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85. "Aloe"
In response to Reply # 84


  

          


Damn u too!


>no matter how many times i witness it aloe still amazes me

"Forget Black History Month, how about live an African History Life"-Ansley Burrows

  

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Solarus
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Mon Aug-26-02 08:20 AM

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86. ""
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Inspired by kemetianīs post about the Ethiopian minibus, I realized that i canīt talk about Panama and not mention the buses here. Compared to the states the buses here are way cheaper. The prices range from 25 cents to 75, all depending on distance and type of bus. The $.25 buses are bsically former school buses that were painted and decorated. The decorations are reminiscent of the the Chicano lowrider cars in the States. Some also add different colored headlights on the front sides and back, so the bus stands out even more at night. Then others are pretty plain with red as the primary color. Those are often called "diablo rojos" (red devils), jokingly of course. They are given that name because of their driving...

Driving in the Panama Province itself is crazy. Courtesy is not translatable into the Panamanian Spanish language. Stop signs are NEVER obeyed and lights are only obeyed because of the influx of traffic trying to all get passed before the light turns red. The taxis are like DC taxis except worse. In DC, the taxis will cut in fornt of anything to get to where they want to go as fast as possible and they same happens here except other drivers are doing it too, thus the taxis must be MORE aggressive. Driving on the side of the road or on the island in the middle of the road is not off limits for taxis as long as no police are around. My uncle told me that taxis will tail behind ambulances and run red lights with them but I havenīt seen many (any?) ambulances since i have been here so i wouldnīt know.

Now for the buses. The buses do all that was mentioned above and since they are bigger will often force people to the side of the road. That is why some are called red devils. Apparently alot of people have been killed by buses when they were in a car or on foot. Many of the major roads are having overpasses built on them for pedestrians to cross.

The cholos tend to be very small people. The only tall people i see here are chombos and that is every now and then. many of the people in my family are tall and huge except for those sides that have alot of Latin/cholo blood and/or premature-born children. I say all of this because those buses werenīt made for pčople like me. Standing up, I must bend down and sitting, I canīt put my feet in front of me. The only buses that I can really find comfortable are some of the air-conditioned buses as those are usually the traveling/Greyhound-type buses and have more space. In some of the air-conditioned buses, the driver will have a TV connected up in the front and will be playing some movie. And these buses wonīt cost more than $.75, with some being only $.35! however in most cases Iīll take the $.25 bus as I am not concerned about comfort. Price is more important. Iīm only take the air-conditioned ones if they are the only type of bus going to a certain location or if iīm with my uncle is too good for the $.25 joints.

One more thing. There are way too many vehicles on the road in Panama Province, especially in Panama city. If Panama doesnīt watch out, Panama City will be another Mexico City.

____________________________
"the real pyramids were built with such precision that you can't slide a piece of paper between two 4,000 lb stones, and have shafts perfectly aligned so that you can see a tiny aperture through dozens of these mammoth blocks

  

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guerilla_love
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88. "overpasses for crossing streets"
In response to Reply # 86


          

AFTER we crossed, we saw those fkers

(heartbeat)

(heartbeat)

(faint)

.....

"Who need fossil fuel when the sun ain't goin' nowhere"
- Amiri Baraka

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guerilla_love
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89. "oh and the ac"
In response to Reply # 86


          

how do u take it?

i kept thinking "i need to carry a jacket or blanket or SUMTHIN"

.....

"Who need fossil fuel when the sun ain't goin' nowhere"
- Amiri Baraka

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Solarus
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87. ""
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I went to two different ATM machine to see what my balance is and on both neither one of them showed me my balance and said "thanks for using us." So i come on online to look at my balance and what do you know. Both ATMīs charged me $2 to tell me "thank you." I guess it must been an involuntary donation.

ĄDemonocio!

Oh yeah, I probably wonīt be online for the next few days as Iīm going the Portobelo in Colon. Donīt let me post die mon!

____________________________
"the real pyramids were built with such precision that you can't slide a piece of paper between two 4,000 lb stones, and have shafts perfectly aligned so that you can see a tiny aperture through dozens of these mammoth blocks

  

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FireBrand
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90. "of course not..."
In response to Reply # 87


  

          

Interesting shit about the minibus...shit can be comprable in JA. That shit was like riding a roller coaster. The streets were barely wideenough for one vehicle, yet you had pedestrians, folks with live stock, cars, and minibuses on the road.

The fact that the roads are really "paved" out in the country don't really give much confidence either. We slid out a few times- a gaurd rail would be nice in the hills, but that's asking too much.

Damn. I gotta get out of this country. I need a different riddim- at least for a week or so.

-------------
avatar?
"...take you back in time like sankofa- sankofa"

"Well, when your every breath and will to live is an act of resistance, you cannot help but be 'too political'. To do otherwise is to hide, to live in denial and defeat." --ArabHottie

" If we can't learn to live together despite the turmoil of past generations we are doomed." -Stern


"And where today is the stable community that would sustain such a couple, where one can be both poor and diginified and raise one's children with decency and hope... If the answer is education, does our society adequateley provide that tool of self-improvement to the less well off?"-- Sidney Poitier

" I'm not mad 'cus I'm losing! I'm mad 'cus I don't know how to win!" --Kevin Curtis Daniels Jr.

"And herein lies the tragedy of the age: not that men are poor,-all men know something of poverty; not that men are wicked,-who is good? Not that men are ignorant, -what is Truth? Nay, but that men know so little of men."
W.E.B. Dubois


"Slaves got options...cowards aint got shit." --PS
"Once upon a time, little need existed for making the distinction between a nigga and a black—at least not in this country, the place where niggas were invented" -- Donnell A

  

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IsaIsaIsa
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Tue Sep-10-02 05:30 AM

120. "JA has to be the most unsafe place of"
In response to Reply # 90


          

all the carib islands, i wouldnt walk 50 feet at night in that country, cats kill children out there, only place i hear about people killing kids is here and brasil.

  

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FireBrand
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122. "Yeah...if CAN be, but so can anywhere...you just gotta"
In response to Reply # 120


  

          

know how to handle yourself, and where to go. I don't think many yankees understand how.


-------------
avatar?
In loving memory of Lionel Hampton. 1908-2002 Simply the best.

My DJ pic


"I don't have class. What do I need class for? I'd rather have no class and have money than having class and no money. Which would you take if you had a chance?" --Poppa Williams.

"Well, when your every breath and will to live is an act of resistance, you cannot help but be 'too political'. To do otherwise is to hide, to live in denial and defeat." --ArabHottie

" If we can't learn to live together despite the turmoil of past generations we are doomed." -Stern


"And where today is the stable community that would sustain such a couple, where one can be both poor and diginified and raise one's children with decency and hope... If the answer is education, does our society adequateley provide that tool of self-improvement to the less well off?"-- Sidney Poitier

" I'm not mad 'cus I'm losing! I'm mad 'cus I don't know how to win!" --Kevin Curtis Daniels Jr.

"And herein lies the tragedy of the age: not that men are poor,-all men know something of poverty; not that men are wicked,-who is good? Not that men are ignorant, -what is Truth? Nay, but that men know so little of men."
W.E.B. Dubois


"Slaves got options...cowards aint got shit." --PS
"Once upon a time, little need existed for making the distinction between a nigga and a black—at least not in this country, the place where niggas were invented" -- Donnell A

  

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IsaIsaIsa
Charter member
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Tue Sep-10-02 09:32 AM

128. "one we both Yankee's,"
In response to Reply # 122


          

i was born in the islands and i bet im considered one, being that ive been in america for a long while, JA is hella rough...i saw the harder they fall.

  

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Solarus
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91. ""
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

How does this mofo get three cakes in one week? My uncleīs birthday was last Monday and my aunt baked him a cake then. My aunt and I (I was forced) had to sing "Feliz cumpleaņos" to him. Then on Thursday night, my uncle and I went to a nightclub to celebrate his birthday. Wifey stayed at home while we partied. I had to sing "Feliz Cumpleaņos" to him again. Yes he had cake too. Then came Saturday, the night of the BIG party. They had been preparing allweek and cooking the last three days until the party. I snuck into my room and went to sleep because they had been working me all day and knew that it would be a long night. I found out later that they finished shortly after i went to sleep.

My uncle had been hyping this up since I had been here.

"Ya gwan ta see how Panamanians get down!"

Well food was of the utmost importance. I told one of his friends that in the States you rarely find anything more than chips and dip at a party, except for those Southern or West Indian parties thrown by an older crowd. He said that if he went to a party with no food he would poison the punch. HA!

Well when i got up, the music had started but noone was there yet. It took about 30 minutes before people really started coming in. Now since I had been in Panama, I had been to two parties already. One at the nightclub which was pretty empty except for about 12 people who were with my uncle and another at a discoteca (club) that I went to with my tio y tia a few weeks back. That discoteca was mainly a Latin (cholo) joint. The whole night they played tipico and salsa. I got to practice my salsa a bit with some cholas. I canīt do the fly spin-the-girl- stuff yet but I was getting the steps down. I was tired as hell that night.

Anyways this party was going to be a "chombo rompo" (I made that up, yeah i know its lame). A few cholos showed up. Some neighbors and some that married into the family but most were chombos. But that is not the important thing. The important thing is that the DJ is playing for a chombo crowd. For a chombo crowd the music consists of alot salsa, alot of soca, some reggae and some american stuff. Because the crowd was primarily mid-20ish to 50ish (with most in the middle), the american stuff was mostly 70s and early 80s.

So I did my thing, slid in danced then slid out and chilled.

PLAY DAT TING MAN! PLAY DAT TING!

I talked to alot of people. One of the neighbors, a 13 year old boy named Miguel, was inside watching TV. Most of the children there (like 10 of them little mofos) went inside and watched TV when their parents danced while one of the older (grandparents) sat in there with them. Miguel only speaks Spanish with a few scattered English words, mostly pertaining to computers and games. I have found talking to younger people helps me with my spanish because they tend not to talk as fast. Of course most of our convo was about games, Dragoball Z (Zeta) computers and girls. What else is on a 13 year oldīs mind?

We went outside for awhile cuz the youngins was loud. Outside I messed around with my ginga, something I always do when standing for awhile.

"ŋĄSabčs capoeira?!"

"Sė un poco."

"ŋĄTienes el instrumento?!"

"Sė estā adentro."

"ĄMuestrame! ĄMuestrame, por favor!"

At this point I can see he is bursting with excitement and curiosity. Well this sure is interesting. I wondered how he heard about it.

"ŋComō lo conoces?"

"Una pelėcula."

" Ohhh. ŋSolō La Fuerte?"

"Sė"

That horrible movie "Only the Strong" is probably the only reason most people have heard of capoeira besides "Eddie" from Tekken of course. The worst part is the terrible depiction of capoeira by the Asian-looking hero of the movie who prior to the movie knew no capoeira. He was some sort of Taekwondo (or another popular Asian art) practitioner.

Anyways I was thrilled by his interest and showed him my berimbau some moves and talked a little about the history. Afterwards when taking my berimbau back inside, my uncle saw me with it and reminded me that i had to do a "show" for his birthday. What is a "show" you ask? Well the DJ was suppose to play "Everybody was Kung-fu fighting" and then I was suppose to do capoeira to it. Of course noone would be dancing because well that just ainīt poppin down here. Only those chombos who went to the states back in the day would know about it.

So the time comes. I hear it beginning. Aww man... It wouldnīt have been so bad if my knee wasnīt hurting. I wasnīt practicing pretty hard earlier that day and combined with the dancing I had done, I didnīt know if i could make it. But my uncle was calling for me and pushed me outside in the back onto the dance floor...

Aww fuck it!

EVERYBODY WAS CAPOEIRA PLAYING!!!!!
THOSE KICKS WERE FAST AS LIGHTNING!!!!

Ginga, Au, Mea Lua, Negativa, Hasteira

What little I knew, I was doing.
Side step, Side step, Watch out donīt kick the lady! HA!
It was pretty fun. But wait do this the whole song?

Hell naw!

You got me into this, so you gonna get some too.

I pulled my uncle out there too. I he went back but I kept trying and then he came out.

He did some karate WAYY BACK in the day so he did his little thing. I just smiled Auīed around him, ginga and negativa under his kicks. Then that was it.

Everybody liked it and cheered. Geez this is kinda lame but fuck it, it was fun. I was drippin with sweat but surprisingly not tired. I went out to the front of the house and played some more with myself...

Wait a minute that doesnīt sound right. How about "BY myself"? Okay thatīll work.

After that I relaxed a little and went back in time to NOT sing "Feliz cumpleaņos" for the THIRD time to my uncle. Got a couple more dances and then that was it. People started leaving around 2 AM. Of course we had to clean up everything which put me in bed about 4 AM. Hey that meant I didnīt have to go to church!

I have been trying to find a way to get out of that for the past two Sundays.

Going to church with my aunt (uncle goes to a separate church) is a post within itself.

...continuarāmos luego...

____________________________
"the real pyramids were built with such precision that you can't slide a piece of paper between two 4,000 lb stones, and have shafts perfectly aligned so that you can see a tiny aperture through dozens of these mammoth blocks

  

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FireBrand
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Thu Aug-29-02 02:35 PM

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92. "Como aprendes copoiera?"
In response to Reply # 91


  

          

aprender is learn - No? No compredno.

pues,

how did YOU learn? I think its kinda foul they only know thru movies. What a great experience this is to read of your travels...thanks for sharing.

one.


-------------
avatar?
In celebration of Black beauty...damn!


"I don't have class. What do I need class for? I'd rather have no class and have money than having class and no money. Which would you take if you had a chance?" --Poppa Williams.

"Well, when your every breath and will to live is an act of resistance, you cannot help but be 'too political'. To do otherwise is to hide, to live in denial and defeat." --ArabHottie

" If we can't learn to live together despite the turmoil of past generations we are doomed." -Stern


"And where today is the stable community that would sustain such a couple, where one can be both poor and diginified and raise one's children with decency and hope... If the answer is education, does our society adequateley provide that tool of self-improvement to the less well off?"-- Sidney Poitier

" I'm not mad 'cus I'm losing! I'm mad 'cus I don't know how to win!" --Kevin Curtis Daniels Jr.

"And herein lies the tragedy of the age: not that men are poor,-all men know something of poverty; not that men are wicked,-who is good? Not that men are ignorant, -what is Truth? Nay, but that men know so little of men."
W.E.B. Dubois


"Slaves got options...cowards aint got shit." --PS
"Once upon a time, little need existed for making the distinction between a nigga and a black—at least not in this country, the place where niggas were invented" -- Donnell A

  

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Solarus
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Thu Aug-29-02 02:57 PM

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93. ""
In response to Reply # 92


  

          

sė, aprender = to learn.

Iīm still learning. Iīve only been at it for a few months but Iīve noticed so much change in my energy levels and agility that practicing entralls me at times. I donīt DREAD practicing like with "stuff" I practiced before. Capoeira is fun.

But anyways, there is more access to capoeira in the States than there is in Panama. There definitely arenīt any formal schools here. Maybe their are teachers here in their own little niches. Nevertheless Iīm sure there are AFrikan Combatives in other forms here. Alas I will have to search for them on my next trip as my time here is just about up.

It will be better next time as I hablarč espaņol con facilidad (will be fluent in Spanish.)

____________________________
"the real pyramids were built with such precision that you can't slide a piece of paper between two 4,000 lb stones, and have shafts perfectly aligned so that you can see a tiny aperture through dozens of these mammoth blocks

  

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FireBrand
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94. "cool...."
In response to Reply # 93


  

          

I wonder if they do stick fighting in the Islands like Manute Bol's people...that's the only other Afrikan style martial art I know about- other than the 52 handblocks you mentioned in another post.


-------------
avatar?
In celebration of Black beauty...damn!


"I don't have class. What do I need class for? I'd rather have no class and have money than having class and no money. Which would you take if you had a chance?" --Poppa Williams.

"Well, when your every breath and will to live is an act of resistance, you cannot help but be 'too political'. To do otherwise is to hide, to live in denial and defeat." --ArabHottie

" If we can't learn to live together despite the turmoil of past generations we are doomed." -Stern


"And where today is the stable community that would sustain such a couple, where one can be both poor and diginified and raise one's children with decency and hope... If the answer is education, does our society adequateley provide that tool of self-improvement to the less well off?"-- Sidney Poitier

" I'm not mad 'cus I'm losing! I'm mad 'cus I don't know how to win!" --Kevin Curtis Daniels Jr.

"And herein lies the tragedy of the age: not that men are poor,-all men know something of poverty; not that men are wicked,-who is good? Not that men are ignorant, -what is Truth? Nay, but that men know so little of men."
W.E.B. Dubois


"Slaves got options...cowards aint got shit." --PS
"Once upon a time, little need existed for making the distinction between a nigga and a black—at least not in this country, the place where niggas were invented" -- Donnell A

  

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Solarus
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Fri Aug-30-02 06:18 AM

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95. "Plenty of Stickfighting"
In response to Reply # 94


  

          

There was and still is stickfighting all throughout the Americas.

In Trinidad it is a national event during carnival. My roommate says his uncle was a stickfighting champion as a child. (Of course he doesnīt know how to )

See this article from here http://209.94.197.2/feb99/feb9/features.htm:

No challengers for Ras Munifa
story and photo by TREVOR BURNETT

HER husband once dared to step into the ring with her and she drew blood with one blow.
A woman who took the chance of challenging her also ended up with a bust head. Up to last Friday evening, another woman's brother-in-law begged for her after the woman almost rushed in where angels fear to tread.


That's the kind of reputation female stickfighter Ras Munifa has earned herself-and that's why she remains unchallenged for her stickfight crown this Carnival.


Ras Munifa was christened Ucil Munifa Benjamin. She hails from Cleaver Woods, D'Abadie.


This Carnival, Ras Munifa has sent out an open challenge to any woman to step into the gayelle with her. The 34-year-old stickfighter was born in the village of Erin. Her father, Eugene Benjamin, was also a stickfighter who ironically tried to discourage his children from stickfighting.


Ras Munifa explained: "It was not until we moved to Talparo at the age of 17 that I became actively involved in stickfighting through King Frederick and his family.


"As straightforward as it sounds, stickfighting requires a lot of technique," she said.


"First your wood or bois must be sturdy, cut in the right moon and well-balanced.


"Your choice of songs with the drummers must set you in the right mood for your dancing feet when 'karraying'.



Ras Munifa, the champion female stickfighter, goes through her shadow training with calypsonian Scrunter outside her Cleaver Woods, D'Abadie home.


"Then there is the wrist movement for the execution of the shots and the setting up of an opponent by duping him into flaws and countering swiftly.


"I shadow-train hard and have no friends in the gayelle, because the old rule is, 'if yuh cyah play, doh play'.


"Some years ago I remembered my then common-law husband, Waldron 'Beta Boy' Fredericks, opposed me because women wouldn't fight me and I 'bust' his head with a clean blow," she recalled.
Ras Munifa has fought in gayelles all over Trinidad and Tobago, but usually in exhibition bouts with men because women bluntly refuse to fight with her.


The last stickfight she had with a woman was in Point Fortin in 1991.


"It was a Friday evening," she says, "passing through Point with some friends when we heard a commotion outside a shop.


"There was a woman gallerying with a stick in a gayelle with $250 on the ground. I called the drummers for my stickfight song, 'Gayelle, Gin-Gin', made my challenge and set up the woman, feinting to the left, then feinting to the right. And as she was open, I surprised her by pulling my bois behind her head, busting her head and the fight was over.


"Last Friday night in Dinsley Junction, Tacarigua, I almost got a fight.


"On my arrival, there was this woman gallerying with a bois and suddenly she bend down and take up the money in the gayelle and put it in her bosom.


"I stopped her dead in her tracks and told her 'woman, yuh don't pick up money in the gayelle without busting my head'...and the gayelle got hot.


"A man came to me and apologised on her behalf, claiming to be her brother-in-law and told me she was drunk," Ras Munifa said.


Ras Munifa will be on exhibition at the Arima Priority Mall gayelle at the national stickfighting championships tomorrow night. On Saturday, she will also be present for the open gayelle at Scrunter's Forest in Sangre Grande from 10 a.m.

*********************

another one http://www.nalis.gov.tt/Places/places_East-Port-of-Spain_history.htm:

____________________________
"the real pyramids were built with such precision that you can't slide a piece of paper between two 4,000 lb stones, and have shafts perfectly aligned so that you can see a tiny aperture through dozens of these mammoth blocks

  

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FireBrand
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Fri Aug-30-02 06:23 AM

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96. "Damn...and here I thought Fencing and Capoiera is all"
In response to Reply # 95


  

          

We had left in the Americas...my brother Fences-damn good to. I'ma ask my Pop about the stick fighting. It looks brutal. Half them cats aint got no teeth. Thanks for the link.


-------------
avatar?
In celebration of Black beauty...damn!

My DJ pic


"I don't have class. What do I need class for? I'd rather have no class and have money than having class and no money. Which would you take if you had a chance?" --Poppa Williams.

"Well, when your every breath and will to live is an act of resistance, you cannot help but be 'too political'. To do otherwise is to hide, to live in denial and defeat." --ArabHottie

" If we can't learn to live together despite the turmoil of past generations we are doomed." -Stern


"And where today is the stable community that would sustain such a couple, where one can be both poor and diginified and raise one's children with decency and hope... If the answer is education, does our society adequateley provide that tool of self-improvement to the less well off?"-- Sidney Poitier

" I'm not mad 'cus I'm losing! I'm mad 'cus I don't know how to win!" --Kevin Curtis Daniels Jr.

"And herein lies the tragedy of the age: not that men are poor,-all men know something of poverty; not that men are wicked,-who is good? Not that men are ignorant, -what is Truth? Nay, but that men know so little of men."
W.E.B. Dubois


"Slaves got options...cowards aint got shit." --PS
"Once upon a time, little need existed for making the distinction between a nigga and a black—at least not in this country, the place where niggas were invented" -- Donnell A

  

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Solarus
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Fri Aug-30-02 06:34 AM

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98. "Fencing?"
In response to Reply # 96


  

          

That ish ainīt afrikan. Iīve heard theories that it developed from Moorish swordfighting but the years of "whitewashing" would lend that ish to not be considered Afrikan.

____________________________
"the real pyramids were built with such precision that you can't slide a piece of paper between two 4,000 lb stones, and have shafts perfectly aligned so that you can see a tiny aperture through dozens of these mammoth blocks

  

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FireBrand
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100. "Damn...I thought is WAS moorish."
In response to Reply # 98


  

          

...foiled again.

-------------
avatar?
In celebration of Black beauty...damn!

My DJ pic


"I don't have class. What do I need class for? I'd rather have no class and have money than having class and no money. Which would you take if you had a chance?" --Poppa Williams.

"Well, when your every breath and will to live is an act of resistance, you cannot help but be 'too political'. To do otherwise is to hide, to live in denial and defeat." --ArabHottie

" If we can't learn to live together despite the turmoil of past generations we are doomed." -Stern


"And where today is the stable community that would sustain such a couple, where one can be both poor and diginified and raise one's children with decency and hope... If the answer is education, does our society adequateley provide that tool of self-improvement to the less well off?"-- Sidney Poitier

" I'm not mad 'cus I'm losing! I'm mad 'cus I don't know how to win!" --Kevin Curtis Daniels Jr.

"And herein lies the tragedy of the age: not that men are poor,-all men know something of poverty; not that men are wicked,-who is good? Not that men are ignorant, -what is Truth? Nay, but that men know so little of men."
W.E.B. Dubois


"Slaves got options...cowards aint got shit." --PS
"Once upon a time, little need existed for making the distinction between a nigga and a black—at least not in this country, the place where niggas were invented" -- Donnell A

  

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Solarus
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Fri Aug-30-02 08:15 AM

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101. "When did the moors"
In response to Reply # 100


  

          

get kicked out of spain? in was in the around the 10th century right. Holīup, google time. 1056.

That means just under a thousand years for the art to become Europeanized.

See here http://www.fencing.net/intro.html:

The Italians, Spanish, and French all claim parentage for modern fencing, but throughout Europe during the Renaissance the discipline took on the aura of high art, with masters refining and passing on to a select few their secret techniques. In the 18th century, treatises appeared in print setting forth the current system of rules and scoring, and prescribing the foil, a metal mask with eye slit, and protective jacket or vest as equipment for use. The rules were intended to simulate real combat while protecting the safety of the combatants. "Conventions" were subsequently adopted to limit the target area of the body and providing for a "right of way" for attacks.

Fencing was a clear choice for inclusion in the Olympic program from 1896 onwards. At the time, the sword was still considered an important military weapon, and sword fighting remained a well-established European custom backed by centuries of tradition. In addition to the foil, contested weapons were the epee, descendent of the dueling sword, and the sabre, which evolved from the weapon of choice for cavalry troops. Fencing remains one of just six sports to have appeared in every modern Olympic Games.


____________________________
"the real pyramids were built with such precision that you can't slide a piece of paper between two 4,000 lb stones, and have shafts perfectly aligned so that you can see a tiny aperture through dozens of these mammoth blocks

  

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Utamaroho
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Fri Aug-30-02 08:59 AM

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102. "LOL!!!"
In response to Reply # 100


  

          

hahahahaha...

i got the joke!

Red, Black, Green

  

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LexM
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Fri Aug-30-02 11:59 AM

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103. "*shakes head*"
In response to Reply # 102


  

          

goofball.

lol
_____________________________
"but don't be satisfied with stories, how things
have gone with others. unfold
your own myth, without complicated explanation,
so everyone will understand the passage,
'we have opened you'" ~Rumi

"artists work to do art...we rarely get paid for what we do...we just pay to do it..." (c) donwill


~~~~
http://omidele.blogspot.com/
http://rahareiki.tumblr.com/
http://seatofbliss.blogspot.com/

  

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Brooklynbeef
Member since May 30th 2002
4649 posts
Fri Aug-30-02 06:28 AM

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97. "Handblocks"
In response to Reply # 94


  

          

I thought capoeria only dealt with legs. School me people.


>I wonder if they do stick fighting in the Islands like
>Manute Bol's people...that's the only other Afrikan style
>martial art I know about- other than the 52 handblocks you
>mentioned in another post.
>
>
>-------------
>avatar?
>In celebration of Black beauty...damn!
>
>
>"I don't have class. What do I need class for? I'd rather
>have no class and have money than having class and no money.
>Which would you take if you had a chance?" --Poppa
>Williams.
>
>"Well, when your every breath and will to live is an act of
>resistance, you cannot help but be 'too political'. To do
>otherwise is to hide, to live in denial and defeat."
>--ArabHottie
>
>" If we can't learn to live together despite the turmoil of
>past generations we are doomed." -Stern
>
>
>"And where today is the stable community that would sustain
>such a couple, where one can be both poor and diginified and
>raise one's children with decency and hope... If the answer
>is education, does our society adequateley provide that tool
>of self-improvement to the less well off?"-- Sidney Poitier
>
>" I'm not mad 'cus I'm losing! I'm mad 'cus I don't know how
>to win!" --Kevin Curtis Daniels Jr.
>
>"And herein lies the tragedy of the age: not that men are
>poor,-all men know something of poverty; not that men are
>wicked,-who is good? Not that men are ignorant, -what is
>Truth? Nay, but that men know so little of men."
>W.E.B. Dubois

"Forget Black History Month, how about live an African History Life"-Ansley Burrows

  

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Solarus
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Fri Aug-30-02 06:37 AM

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99. "52 handblocks"
In response to Reply # 97


  

          

is a martial system developed by Afrikans in the American prison system, known by many other names like jailhouse rock. 52 handblocks is not capoeira which is a martial system developed by Afrikans in Brazil.

____________________________
"the real pyramids were built with such precision that you can't slide a piece of paper between two 4,000 lb stones, and have shafts perfectly aligned so that you can see a tiny aperture through dozens of these mammoth blocks

  

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Utamaroho
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Tue Sep-03-02 12:56 AM

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104. "Preguntas"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

1)what is the main lesson you learned while living in Panama while you did?

2)What is the current situation of the african presence there?

3)What would be an important role that those africans in Panama would play in the future liberation of and reclamation of african peole and ways?

4)Did you get a bout it machete?

Red, Black, Green

  

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ochosigrand
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Tue Sep-03-02 05:17 AM

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106. "Black Activism in Latin America"
In response to Reply # 104


  

          

u beat me to that question. My broader question is, besides brazil are there any Black Nationalist type or moblizing mkovements in Latin America to improve African peoples position, preserve their culture and transform society. I know of examples in Brazil. But what about Panama, Columbia, Peru.....

  

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FireBrand
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Tue Sep-03-02 01:23 AM

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105. "un momento por favor, Una mas pregunta"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

1.) Have you seen/learned anything about the situation of Afikans in Panama that can be applied to the healing of the diaspora- specifically United State's Arikans.

-------------
avatar?
In celebration of Black beauty...damn!

My DJ pic


"I don't have class. What do I need class for? I'd rather have no class and have money than having class and no money. Which would you take if you had a chance?" --Poppa Williams.

"Well, when your every breath and will to live is an act of resistance, you cannot help but be 'too political'. To do otherwise is to hide, to live in denial and defeat." --ArabHottie

" If we can't learn to live together despite the turmoil of past generations we are doomed." -Stern


"And where today is the stable community that would sustain such a couple, where one can be both poor and diginified and raise one's children with decency and hope... If the answer is education, does our society adequateley provide that tool of self-improvement to the less well off?"-- Sidney Poitier

" I'm not mad 'cus I'm losing! I'm mad 'cus I don't know how to win!" --Kevin Curtis Daniels Jr.

"And herein lies the tragedy of the age: not that men are poor,-all men know something of poverty; not that men are wicked,-who is good? Not that men are ignorant, -what is Truth? Nay, but that men know so little of men."
W.E.B. Dubois


"Slaves got options...cowards aint got shit." --PS
"Once upon a time, little need existed for making the distinction between a nigga and a black—at least not in this country, the place where niggas were invented" -- Donnell A

  

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FireBrand
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145739 posts
Tue Sep-03-02 05:30 AM

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107. "Disregard question...Uta had it covered. My bad"
In response to Reply # 105


  

          


I'm learn to start reading all the replies.
-------------
avatar?
In celebration of Black beauty...damn!

My DJ pic


"I don't have class. What do I need class for? I'd rather have no class and have money than having class and no money. Which would you take if you had a chance?" --Poppa Williams.

"Well, when your every breath and will to live is an act of resistance, you cannot help but be 'too political'. To do otherwise is to hide, to live in denial and defeat." --ArabHottie

" If we can't learn to live together despite the turmoil of past generations we are doomed." -Stern


"And where today is the stable community that would sustain such a couple, where one can be both poor and diginified and raise one's children with decency and hope... If the answer is education, does our society adequateley provide that tool of self-improvement to the less well off?"-- Sidney Poitier

" I'm not mad 'cus I'm losing! I'm mad 'cus I don't know how to win!" --Kevin Curtis Daniels Jr.

"And herein lies the tragedy of the age: not that men are poor,-all men know something of poverty; not that men are wicked,-who is good? Not that men are ignorant, -what is Truth? Nay, but that men know so little of men."
W.E.B. Dubois


"Slaves got options...cowards aint got shit." --PS
"Once upon a time, little need existed for making the distinction between a nigga and a black—at least not in this country, the place where niggas were invented" -- Donnell A

  

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Solarus
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Thu Sep-05-02 02:12 AM

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108. ""
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I got back on Sunday but I haven't been able to get online since last Thursday. HU's comp system has been down so when I returned I couldn't finish my last comments. I'll get to those questions as soon as possible and also finish telling my last adventures in Panama, when i went to Portobelo.

____________________________
"the real pyramids were built with such precision that you can't slide a piece of paper between two 4,000 lb stones, and have shafts perfectly aligned so that you can see a tiny aperture through dozens of these mammoth blocks

  

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Solarus
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Fri Sep-06-02 07:57 AM

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109. "Mis Aventuras en Portobelo"
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Sep-06-02 07:58 AM

  

          

Parte 1: La Llegada

Finally Iīm on my way to Portobelo. The plan is to leave for Portobelo at 9 AM on Tuesday and stay until Thursday. I will be there for only 2 nights as my money is low and canīt afford to be there any longer.
So my uncle drives me to Portobelo with a "friend." The drive to Portobelo isnīt really that long at all. There is alot of nice scenery driving through Panama. Mostly through hilly areas going north to the Colon Province. Once in the Colon Province, we went east to Portobelo. This drive takes you all along the Atlantic coast. At one point there was a cow in the middle of the road. Dumb ass cow. In Panama mofos will run over your ass if it was night. There are NO lights out here so at night you probaly canīt see ish.

When entering Portobelo you see the ruins of the old Spanish forts and then small homes. Portobelo consists of only a few small homes,some shops/restaurants, some tourist/historical buildings, a church and the remains of the Spanish forts.

When my uncle parked and we got out, a brother selling jewelry yelled out to us in English and said we canīt park there and had to go around to the other side. While my uncle went to go park his "friend" and I got out and started heading towards the church. the guy selling stuff came towards me and introduced himself. His name was Victor. He asked me if I wanted to buy anything. I really didnīt but since he spoke English, I figured that I could use his help later on and that buying something now would make him more succeptible to helping me out. I got a small necklace necklace from him and left to go catch up with my uncle.

We all went by the church to see El Cristo Negro. My uncle asked me did I want to stay for awhile and pray.

LOL!

"No, I just want some pictures"

I have to say i was very dissappointed THOROUGHLY with the church. Of course there is the black Christ but why is the rest of the chruch filled with depictions of a white Christ and Mary. What part of the game is this?!

Oh well...

So my uncle and his "friend" go with me to find the hotel which is right near the church. $10 a night according to the guy who is fixing the place up. The woman who runs it is not there so i have to speak to her later but he shows me the room anyway. The toilet can be cleaner but itīll have to do. He gives me the key so I go get my stuff and bring it upstairs. When I come down, my uncle is talking to Victor in espaņol.

"Heīs going to show you around alright?" says my uncle.

"Ok"

So my uncle and his "friend" leave. i found out later that Victor knew my uncleīs friendīs sister. So me and Victor are practically family (we are for real by Panamanian standards.)

So Victor says that heīs going to show me around Portobelo. As we walk, we talk. He tells me that speaks only a little English so we go back and forth speaking Spanish and English. I amazed myself at times. I found myself not needing to mentally translate what he was saying into English. And i was able to say most of what i wanted in Spanish.

Victor is 40 years old and learned his English went he was a stowaway on a ship to the US. He reached my Miami but was caught and deported back to Panama. He grew up in the city of Colon but his parents are both Congos. His father was from portobelo and his mother was from Isla Grande.

I then tell him what Iīm interested. I tell him about my interests in learning more about the traditions of the Congos and particularly any martial traditions they may have. This was the hard part. Converying that message was harder than I thought. I tried asking about the "traditional way of fighting" that the Congos did. I tried to say the same thing in several different ways but to no avail. Finally i had to resort to the phrase that I hate to use when asking people about this subject matte: "artes marciales" or "martial arts". I dislike using the term because the average person automatically says "Oh you mean karate. Yeah i know some people with black belts." The American propaganda machine called "TV" has done a fine job of making most of the world believe that and type of "martial art" has an Asian name and goes by a belt system.

Finally I ask about the dance of the Congo and can any of the movements be used for self-defense. !! He finally understood what i was saying.

"O yes. I will take you to my cousin who is the best Congo dancer in Portobelo, but later."

YES!

But for now we continued the tour. I asked him about a Art colony where students from the States stay at and he took me by.

Taller Portobelo. This is the art colony co-founded by arturo Lindsay, a Spelman College professor, dedicated to preserving the cultural artistic legacy of the Congo people. Of course him nor any students were there. There were some Congos there but that is it. School has already started in the States so I didnīt expect anyone including Arturo to be there.

Next Victor took me around and showed me the area and then suggested that we go see his cousin. He had shown me a picture of his cousin in the tourist museum earlier. His cousin is the oldest and best Congo dancer in Portobelo, he tells me. This should be an experience.

As we war towards his cousin's place he tells me that he lives with his cousin too. See Victor has no house himself and stays with relatives wherever he finds himself. He says he has been staying in Portobelo because he can money there as there are more tourists who pass thru Portobelo.

When we reach I see that his cousin was on the extreme side of Portobelo's poverty. He lives in nothing more than a rundown shack. What's worse is that the "house" is made of only would with a tin roof. Wood isn't not the best thing to protect from exposure. The incessant rain of the particulary especially the rainy season, would cause the would to easily rot and be a haven for bacteria as it appears to be now. I see probably the sickest dog that I have ever witnessed. This dog looks like it is on crack, losin hair, skin and bones, constantly shaking and spaced-out eyes. Victor tells me to wait so he can go tell his cousin that I want to speak to him.

He goes inside and returns shortly. He tells me that his cousin will be happy to talk to me but that he would appreciate any money that i can give him as he is very poor. I expected as much so I tell him its fine. We go inside the place and sitdown to talk. His cousin has a deep accent that makes my poorly trained spanish ears virtually useless in understanding what he is saying so Victor mostly plays interpreter.

He tells me a little about Congo history and the dance all the while I'm trying to convey my inquiry about a combative system stemming for the Congos. IT is obvious that my little spanish doesn't convery the message as planned and neither does Victor poor understanding of english help. I soon realize that I won't be learning the history about the Congos from the mouths of the elders in this trip. I'll have to come back when I'm fluent in spanish. Oh well.

His cousin while being the best dancer in Portobelo, is also crippled. His left leg is underdeveloped and he walks with a limp. I would have loved to see him dance. He prolly had the hugest right calf muscle that I have ever seen.In fact he was all-around a small but very strong man. He was also a woodcarver. I bought his two dancing canes as he offered to give them to me. Since I would prefer to purchase something instead of just giving him money for nothing, I decide to pay for the canes.

Once I left I decided to go back to the hotel for a rest. I told victor I would see him later so I could speak to some other elders. It was only around 2 or 3 PM so I had plenty of time to rest and go back out before the sun went down as it was already a nice and shiny day. Little did I know. Once I returned to the hotel, almost instantaneously it got dark. Then minutes later rained. And rained HARD. It rained...

and rained...

and rained...

and rained... Oh you get the picture.

It rained hard nonstop until around 6... AM! The next morning dammit! When I looked outside during the rain, one would swear that Portobelo is a ghost town. Noone went out. Oh well, time to rest up as tomorrow as Victor was going to guide me to Isla Grande.

Little did I know, I was in for it...

...continuaramos luego...

____________________________
"the real pyramids were built with such precision that you can't slide a piece of paper between two 4,000 lb stones, and have shafts perfectly aligned so that you can see a tiny aperture through dozens of these mammoth blocks

  

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Utamaroho
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Fri Sep-06-02 08:33 AM

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110. "LOL!"
In response to Reply # 109


  

          

" I see probably the sickest dog that I have ever witnessed. This dog looks like it is on crack, losin hair, skin and bones, constantly shaking and spaced-out eyes."

did he at least demonstrate in words or in slow movements the dance?

Red, Black, Green

  

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Solarus
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Fri Sep-06-02 08:40 AM

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111. "A little bit"
In response to Reply # 110


  

          

but not enough to get a feel for it

____________________________
"the real pyramids were built with such precision that you can't slide a piece of paper between two 4,000 lb stones, and have shafts perfectly aligned so that you can see a tiny aperture through dozens of these mammoth blocks

  

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Solarus
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Mon Sep-09-02 06:39 AM

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112. "Mis Aventuras..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Parte 2: El Viaje a Isla Grande

The next day I got up early as I had been in bed all o fthe previous day and night. THe rain had me stranded in the room so I was eager to get out. I went for a walk around the town and the old ruins. The number of stray dogs here is ridiculous. They generally won't mess with you although on occasion they may bark at you and try to buck up but they ain't shit. They are so hungry that they usually don't have the energy to do anything but most of them have plenty of battle scars so I'm sure they frequently fight one another. In fact I had front row seats to a dog gangfight. Two groups of dogs fought each other...

Dog-on-dog violence. Wow what a treat...

As I continued exploring the town I noticed a familiar but dreaded smell.

It can't be. **sniff sniff** Come on not out here. **sniff sniff**

And then i saw it. NO!!!!

*shakes head and cries inside**

I saw a girl relaxing another girl's hair. I can never forget the smell of chemicals frying one's hair in the morning. I knew EVERY woman's out here didn't have straight hair naturally. I though maybe the Indian blood but considering how nappy the men's hair is out here, I knew their had to be something else going on. The sad part is that folks are poor as hell but find money to buy that shit for the Chinese (who own all the stores) for jacked up prices. Because no other grocery stores are out here the Chinese-owned stores reign supreme and raise the prices royally.

Oh well ...

I later ran into Victor and we prepared to go to Isla Grande, a small island off the Atlantic coast of Panama. It is about 30 miles from Portobello to the nearest dock where we can catch a ship to the island. So we have to catch a bus or hitchhike. Of course we ended up hitchiking. Three cars later were prolly 5 miles away from the dock so we walked. The last car we rode with stopped a a house down the road from the docks. They happened to be white Americans, from Norfolk, VA no less. From the conversations on their cell phones to what I suspect was their stockbroker they moved to Panama and live of their stocks and investments. Living off of American money in Panama, make one virtually a millionaire. I definitely wasn't surprised to see these dunduns out in the bush here. They prolly had a big house somewhere and owned alot of land.

Speaking of millionaires, Victor me this island that is next to ISla Grande that is owned by some Spanish millionaire who has his own docks and everything on the island. Noone can go on that island without permission.

AS we walked down the road, the smells from all around caught my attention. I didn't smell car exhaust and could breathe clearly. I only could smell the sea and tantalizing smells of sweet fruit like guava, limes, lemons, bananas, plaintain and coconut. Well mainly just the limes, lemons and guava as they were the most pungent. Even the smells of fermenting fruit was a nice touch. Although one can find fruit growing alonside the roads in Panama Province the extremity of traffic and the poor emissions standard make breathing in there quite unbearable at times. If I was in Panama City too long my chest would start to hurt. The only disagreeable smells here was the occasional rotting crab flesh on the road. Crab was the roadkill here. As the road is only yards from the shore, hundreds of crabs make there homes all alongside the road. HUNDREDS of them. It definitely would not be advisable to walk off the road and into the bushes without long pants and sturdy boots. I had on flip flops so I made sure to not walk off the road.

Anyways, we reach the docks and take a boat over. It's been YEARS since I have seen clear blue water. The island is completely has many hotels as this spot is known as being a popular tourist attraction on weekends. However the inhabitants of the island are completely black Congos (except for some foreign hotel owners). Victor introduced me to more of his family as he took me around the island. We went to the highest point of the Island wherein lies a lighthouse. From the view you can see a beautiful uninhabited island called Isla Tambor (because it is shaped like a drum, "tambor"=drum).

As we walked I commented on how nice the homes here looked in comparison to Portobelo. Victor agreed and said that people here generally make a living off of tourists and generally the homes look nice in order to make the island continue looking attractive. Then I thought about food. Since I've been here Victor has constantly made comments about how he and his cousin are often hungry. Much of what he says lends me to think that he is runnin the "po man's game" in order to get money out of me. However it is pretty obvious that he doesn't have money and is po as hell. He seems pretty honest. Plus today he was wearing a Morehouse T-shirt so he has to be okay !

(BTW He got the shirt from a Morehouse student who was part of Arturo Lindsay's student art program.)

So I ask him if people die from starvation or malnutrition (I think he understood the "malnutrition" part). I figured with all of the fruit around noone could ever starve.

"No. People may not eat good but they eat."

I realized for him eating "good" largely meant having some form of cooked meat on one's plate. Particularly beef or chicken. Chickens run rampant all oever the island and on mainland. Walking down the road one saw several roaming chickens in search for food but everyone knows that these chickens BELONG to SOMEONE. One could easily steal a chicken or two but that is not common. The people here definitely have some high morals despite the fact that they are so poor. Only a ranchers have cows out here and they word for some big meat distribution company. I noticed on the way here that every ranch had the same symbol on their gates and the trucks.

That was another thing I asked him about the number of black campesinos (farmers) out here and said there is only a few.

"Most campesinos are the white peoples (cholos). Not many blacks are campesinos (or ranchers) because we like to live in the city."

Hmmm, I don't know about that. If you put it in its historical context, los Congos were the descendants of cimarrones (Maroons), i.e. escaped Afrikan bondspersons. Traditionally throughout the Americas, Maroon communities did not establish large farms. They may have been very adept at growing crops and even had small gardens but large farms were not conducive to the secretive and unstable Maroon lifestyle. They had to keep a low profile as not to be discovered by their captors and constantly move and/or fight. The sedentary lifestyle would not work with those sorts of dangers and risks.

As far as the chombos (west indian descendants) in Panama, they came to make a living off of the Canal. Latin and Indian farmers and ranchers were already in Panama and provided those goods. To become a farmer or rancher, one would have to actively try and acquire land (and animals) and then cultivate it. Let alone learning how, which is something the second and subsequent generations of West Indian immigrants would have to do.

Therefore I understood what Victor meant but still staying in a shack on your own land with your own crops or animals is alot better than staying in shack in the worst part of a city with no food and no other possessions. Victor said he stayed in house the jungle for a while but it gets really lonely out there becasue noone else is there. I guess that's why cats out there have a million kids

Before we were ready to leave, we took another quick swim. This time were were on the side of the island that is right across from the mainland where as the last time we were facing the sea. It really isn't that far from the otherside and Victor jokingly asks me if I want to swim across. He claims he has done it several times before. I consider it but then realize that everything in my back will get wet including my camera. Next i come back here I will have a waterproof bag. I'm going to swim it one day. He does mention that there are plenty of sharks around but they only swim in the bay when the water is higher (less shallow).

So we take a boat back. Because it is so late, we have to walk and hitchhike back to Portobelo, since the bus has stopped running. I really don't mind as I enjoyed the walk. After 5 rides later and intermittent walks we made it back to Portobelo and not a moment too soon. It started raining again.

Oh well I'm in for the night...

____________________________
"the real pyramids were built with such precision that you can't slide a piece of paper between two 4,000 lb stones, and have shafts perfectly aligned so that you can see a tiny aperture through dozens of these mammoth blocks

  

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guerilla_love
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Mon Sep-09-02 07:37 AM

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113. "the dogs"
In response to Reply # 112


          

a big packa dirty & hungry males chasin after one whimpering female who is running for her life

but man do u get a big laugh when u come home and see those ridiculous designer dogs...........

.....

"Who need fossil fuel when the sun ain't goin' nowhere"
- Amiri Baraka

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IsaIsaIsa
Charter member
posts
Mon Sep-09-02 07:43 AM

114. "what about the WOMEN ?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

you never mentioned the ladies, how do they look down there, and did you meet any women personally ?

  

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guerilla_love
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Mon Sep-09-02 08:00 AM

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115. "he can't talk"
In response to Reply # 114


          

he's all hooked up with a lurker


.....

"Who need fossil fuel when the sun ain't goin' nowhere"
- Amiri Baraka

http://www.okayplayer.com/guidelines

BUY MY BOOK- only $6! Inbox me for details

  

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Solarus
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Mon Sep-09-02 01:31 PM

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116. "Actually I was going to mention"
In response to Reply # 114


  

          

this later. But my as well now. I always hear comments on how "beautiful" Panamanian women are but I suspected that was the result of the myriad of latin/black mixed women one can find there. CAts always like that "look." Unfortunately mix breeds are not my cup of tea .

I could say that I saw several beautiful women there but I won't. At this point in my life I have certain standards and they definitely were not met by any of the women there. Sure there was "potential" but most of them carry themselves is an ugly way. For instance, every (EVERY) dark-skinned sister down there (that I saw) was drowned in de-beautification techniques. A white ass face with pitch black skin because of the amass of facial makeup (and they weren't doing rituals where this would be acceptable ) or the dreaded hair straightened abyss.

They did not know the meaning of natural beauty. On that same token the women that did have an inkling of natural beauty were generally the cholos and mixed black/spanish girls. If their features were close to the desired Panamanian standard then physical altercations were not necessarily needed.

On that same token, the brothers down there chase the Panamanian standard. To see a brother withOUT a Spanish girl is like WHOAH! Black girls are cast aside for their lighter-skinned and straighter-haired peers. Although I will say that the black girls picked up by the latin and white men frequently. Also EDUCATION and MONEY plays into the equation because as in the states, black women seem to be getting ahead with more professional jobs and better education than the black men. And of course, these better educated, higher-paid women generally don't hook up with lower-paid or lower-educated brothers.

My uncle along with a few other guys commented that black girls (even the poor ones with no education) want a guy with money so the black dudes have to seek companionship elsewhere. But I don't know about that. Sounds like a copout to me. From what I could tell EVERYBODY (all races and genders) was money hungry.

One more thing. At this point I will say that everything I just mentioned should only be applied to the Panama Province because in Colon where the percentage of blacks is much higher, the situation is prolly completely different.

____________________________
"the real pyramids were built with such precision that you can't slide a piece of paper between two 4,000 lb stones, and have shafts perfectly aligned so that you can see a tiny aperture through dozens of these mammoth blocks

  

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IsaIsaIsa
Charter member
posts
Mon Sep-09-02 06:41 PM

117. "so you didnt see one fine chica,"
In response to Reply # 116
Mon Sep-09-02 06:50 PM

          

i dont wanna say anything rude questioning you sexuality,cause i know(well im 99.9% sure) your not a fag, so imma shut the perverbial fuck up..but before i go, you mean to tell me you find women like this fine http://www.blackvaginafinder.com/chicas/main.htm ?

  

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Solarus
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Tue Sep-10-02 05:50 AM

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126. "By those standards"
In response to Reply # 117


  

          

yes

____________________________
"the real pyramids were built with such precision that you can't slide a piece of paper between two 4,000 lb stones, and have shafts perfectly aligned so that you can see a tiny aperture through dozens of these mammoth blocks

  

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IsaIsaIsa
Charter member
posts
Tue Sep-10-02 09:28 AM

127. "ohok,"
In response to Reply # 126


          

right answer...cause if you said nay........

  

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FireBrand
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Tue Sep-10-02 05:35 AM

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121. "this shit is tight...I wish u could found out more abou"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

dances...oh well next time eh? As for the nobody fucking with other people's chicken...in JA it's like that too, but for a different reason. Because of the somtimes lawless nature of the bush - retribution can be a sharp cutlas on your arm when you fuck with someone else's shit.

My dad used to tell us about a story about a neighborhood kid caught stealing a man's coconuts. the man waited on him all day to come down- threatening all the while, and at night when he left he left his cutlas in the tree so when the kid eventually slid down that night...he chopped deep into his leg.

this is how he told us that stealingi would come back on us.

-------------
avatar?
In loving memory of Lionel Hampton. 1908-2002 Simply the best.

My DJ pic


"I don't have class. What do I need class for? I'd rather have no class and have money than having class and no money. Which would you take if you had a chance?" --Poppa Williams.

"Well, when your every breath and will to live is an act of resistance, you cannot help but be 'too political'. To do otherwise is to hide, to live in denial and defeat." --ArabHottie

" If we can't learn to live together despite the turmoil of past generations we are doomed." -Stern


"And where today is the stable community that would sustain such a couple, where one can be both poor and diginified and raise one's children with decency and hope... If the answer is education, does our society adequateley provide that tool of self-improvement to the less well off?"-- Sidney Poitier

" I'm not mad 'cus I'm losing! I'm mad 'cus I don't know how to win!" --Kevin Curtis Daniels Jr.

"And herein lies the tragedy of the age: not that men are poor,-all men know something of poverty; not that men are wicked,-who is good? Not that men are ignorant, -what is Truth? Nay, but that men know so little of men."
W.E.B. Dubois


"Slaves got options...cowards aint got shit." --PS
"Once upon a time, little need existed for making the distinction between a nigga and a black—at least not in this country, the place where niggas were invented" -- Donnell A

  

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Utamaroho
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Tue Sep-10-02 05:41 AM

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123. "how could leaving his car?"
In response to Reply # 121


  

          

...cut the kid's leg?

Red, Black, Green

  

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FireBrand
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Tue Sep-10-02 05:43 AM

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124. "LOL .... cutlas=machete"
In response to Reply # 123


  

          

-------------
avatar?
In loving memory of Lionel Hampton. 1908-2002 Simply the best.

My DJ pic


"I don't have class. What do I need class for? I'd rather have no class and have money than having class and no money. Which would you take if you had a chance?" --Poppa Williams.

"Well, when your every breath and will to live is an act of resistance, you cannot help but be 'too political'. To do otherwise is to hide, to live in denial and defeat." --ArabHottie

" If we can't learn to live together despite the turmoil of past generations we are doomed." -Stern


"And where today is the stable community that would sustain such a couple, where one can be both poor and diginified and raise one's children with decency and hope... If the answer is education, does our society adequateley provide that tool of self-improvement to the less well off?"-- Sidney Poitier

" I'm not mad 'cus I'm losing! I'm mad 'cus I don't know how to win!" --Kevin Curtis Daniels Jr.

"And herein lies the tragedy of the age: not that men are poor,-all men know something of poverty; not that men are wicked,-who is good? Not that men are ignorant, -what is Truth? Nay, but that men know so little of men."
W.E.B. Dubois


"Slaves got options...cowards aint got shit." --PS
"Once upon a time, little need existed for making the distinction between a nigga and a black—at least not in this country, the place where niggas were invented" -- Donnell A

  

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injyl
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Tue Sep-10-02 05:44 AM

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125. "THANX"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I am enjoying reading about ya visit

just thought i would post that
cuz i am just reading not commenting
but wanted u to know i was lurking

*ITS LIKE EVERY WHERE I GO I SEE THE SAME POOO O OOOSTs*

I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel.

http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/50/l_c7ac935e3dab46a9bf8ac47a4e67c8d0.jpg

  

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Solarus
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Wed Sep-11-02 04:05 PM

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129. "Mis Aventuras..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Parte 3: El Ultimo Dia

The last day of my stay in Portobelo had finally arrived for my stay in Portobelo, and in all honesty, I was eager to get back to Panama Province. I was eager for a number of reasons. One of the reasons is that I was pretty much out of funds. Another is that my mind was on getting back to the states as I had an unsettling feeling that was missing something at school as that same week I was in Portobelo was the first week of school (it turns out I was right). However the main reason is that I had found Portobelo to be somewhat depressing.

Since my stay I surrounded myself with "the people." In doing so, I was able to see firsthand the amount of poverty that from which they were suffering. Overall it strengthen my resolve and understanding that Afrikans in America (i.e. people of Afrikan descent in America, be they WEst Indians, continental Afrikans, African AMerican, etc.) must carry the torch to help and nuture Afrikan communities worldwide. The fact is there really are TOO MANY opportunities for Afrikans in America NOT to take advantage of the situation and be in a possession to help the rest of us. America is fat off the blood of other nations. It's time for us to start giving back and in more ways than just money.

After going to see Victor one last time, he decided to see me away. I gave him a few dollars so he could get some breakfast. We waited and the bus stop and talked. We talked the lack of jobs available and how he has went everywhere in Panama to find them. He claims that it is even harder because he is black, and the cholos and chinos don't like giving blacks jobs. He said that some days he considers suicide because he sees no reason to live such an impoverished life and suffer so much.

I can't say how relieved I was when the bus finally came. We said our heartfelt goodbyes and I was gone just as quickly as I came. I told him I would be back someday. And that is a promise I intend to keep.

Fin

____________________________
"the real pyramids were built with such precision that you can't slide a piece of paper between two 4,000 lb stones, and have shafts perfectly aligned so that you can see a tiny aperture through dozens of these mammoth blocks

  

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injyl
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Thu Sep-12-02 05:35 AM

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130. "viajo con dios /Allah :)"
In response to Reply # 129


  

          

u are an excellent writer

I think i would read a book by u

u make the word flow like fluid...


hope u make it back to the states safely


thanx again for sharing ya journey with us.


peace
salaams
paz








*ITS LIKE EVERY WHERE I GO I SEE THE SAME POOO O OOOSTs*

I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel.

http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/50/l_c7ac935e3dab46a9bf8ac47a4e67c8d0.jpg

  

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ya Setshego
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Mon Sep-16-02 11:57 AM

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134. "name 5 of those ways."
In response to Reply # 129


  

          


People always say that after visiting the continent or other parts of the Diaspora. Or even ghettoes in America. "We need to give back...we need to give back..." Give back by doing WHAT, specifically, keeping in mind that what can be done in these countries is usually STRICTLY controlled by the leadership from those countries. In many cases, the last thing in the interests of these leaders is the needs of the people in that country. One of the many scars Europeans left on African countries, South American Countries, and the Caribbean is the horrid lesson of how a leader can drain the country of its resources, pocket the profits, and allow the people to starve. This is a common theme found in Africa, The Caribbean, etc. So. In light of that, amongst many other obstacles, what is it exactly that you think we should and could realistically DO to ameliorate suffering?


>> America is fat off the
>blood of other nations. It's time for us to start giving
>back and in more ways than just money.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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Solarus
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Mon Sep-16-02 03:17 PM

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135. "A few things (Congos in Panama specifically)"
In response to Reply # 134
Mon Sep-16-02 03:21 PM

  

          

EDUCATION

Scholarships and other programs need to be developed with a stipulation that the participants take their skills and return their towns and make use of them. This one area is probably the most helpful (and easiest) those living in the states can do. There are several areas of education to be considered but from my perspective after visiting, here are my top ones:

1.Environmental Engineers- to design ways of gathering clean freshwater and properly discarding of wastewater and other waste products.

2. Lawyers (in Panamanian REal Estate and Property Rights)- The land and homes are being bought up and I suspect that as Panama rushes the country to a ceritified tourist trap status, foreigners will continue to buy the land and use it for their own purposes whilst kicking the people (who've been there for hundreds of years) off the land.

3. Agriculturalists/Agrarians- There is alot of land down there that is not being used to GROW food. Most of the land that I witnesses was used for cattle-grazing. Considering that much of the food grows without tending, their is much opportunity to grow other crops and possibly grow them for a small but significant profit.

4. Persons adept in Panamanian Business Practices (This prolly goes under the lawyer category)

5. Different Perspectives- Being an outsider from the States, I could see that for the most part the Congos had everything they needed to live comfortably. However that is "comfortably" by my standards. I mentioned Victor's desire to "eat good" which is an example. Instead of going to the trees and ground for food, He and his cousin will go for a day without eating because they didn't make any money. Also buying overpriced lye relaxer is a goal even though people have little to no money. In that way they weren't much different than Afrikans in America who take for granted what they have and desire for what they don't.

In general the biggest issue that I saw was the Congos increasing dependence on outsiders for sustenance. the local markets were all owned by chinese and most of their income was based on the tourist industry.




____________________________
"the real pyramids were built with such precision that you can't slide a piece of paper between two 4,000 lb stones, and have shafts perfectly aligned so that you can see a tiny aperture through dozens of these mammoth blocks

  

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ya Setshego
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Mon Sep-16-02 03:26 PM

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136. "It's like every other country I go....I see the sameXXX"
In response to Reply # 135


  

          

Most of the tea plantations, and many businesses in my village were owned by white Americans, Italians, the French, or Indians.

When I asked why the notoriously industrious Kikuyu did not close in on some of these markets after independence in '63, I was told, "We Africans don't know how to manage businesses well. That is why the economy of Uganda fell after Idi Amin kicked out the Indians, touting 'Africa for the Africans!'" These are my college-educated counterparts telling me this, not even uneducated locals, who one might think have access to less information, and less exposure.


the biggest issue that I saw was the Congos
>increasing dependence on outsiders for sustenance. the
>local markets were all owned by chinese and most of their
>income was based on the tourist industry.
>
>

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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Solarus
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3604 posts
Sun Sep-15-02 05:32 PM

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131. "^"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

por ahora...

____________________________
"the real pyramids were built with such precision that you can't slide a piece of paper between two 4,000 lb stones, and have shafts perfectly aligned so that you can see a tiny aperture through dozens of these mammoth blocks

  

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guerilla_love
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Fri Sep-20-02 07:47 AM

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138. "up"
In response to Reply # 0


          

.

.....

"Who need fossil fuel when the sun ain't goin' nowhere"
- Amiri Baraka

http://www.okayplayer.com/guidelines

BUY MY BOOK- only $6! Inbox me for details

  

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Solarus
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3604 posts
Fri Sep-20-02 07:53 AM

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139. "I plan to finish this"
In response to Reply # 138


  

          

sometime today of this weekend once I finish this paper. Then it will be ready for the archives

____________________________
"the real pyramids were built with such precision that you can't slide a piece of paper between two 4,000 lb stones, and have shafts perfectly aligned so that you can see a tiny aperture through dozens of these mammoth blocks

  

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guerilla_love
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Fri Sep-20-02 07:54 AM

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140. "in'sh allah"
In response to Reply # 139


          

if there is someone around to put it up there

i miss my community building post.

.....

"Who need fossil fuel when the sun ain't goin' nowhere"
- Amiri Baraka

http://www.okayplayer.com/guidelines

BUY MY BOOK- only $6! Inbox me for details

  

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ya Setshego
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4259 posts
Fri Sep-20-02 12:04 PM

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141. "And"
In response to Reply # 140


  

          

Did anybody print out your OKActivistVeggieCookbook? 'Cuz I really need some of the recipes from that post, and I don't think that it was archived.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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guerilla_love
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8273 posts
Mon Sep-23-02 02:15 AM

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142. "there's one archived, but"
In response to Reply # 141


          

it was the second one, not the first. and i miss the first.

.....

"Who need fossil fuel when the sun ain't goin' nowhere"
- Amiri Baraka

http://www.okayplayer.com/guidelines

BUY MY BOOK- only $6! Inbox me for details

  

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ya Setshego
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4259 posts
Mon Sep-23-02 05:51 AM

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143. "Do you know of anyone"
In response to Reply # 142


  

          

who printed out the first one?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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guerilla_love
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8273 posts
Tue Sep-24-02 07:12 AM

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146. "up"
In response to Reply # 0


          

.

.....

"Who need fossil fuel when the sun ain't goin' nowhere"
- Amiri Baraka

http://www.okayplayer.com/guidelines

BUY MY BOOK- only $6! Inbox me for details

  

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sugarflyy
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4403 posts
Tue Sep-24-02 07:15 AM

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147. "Yayyyyyyy were cousins"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

My moms is panmanian an her grandmother is jamaican. It's been a long while since I've been to Panama. oh well.

America is a dead ho. -Dick Gregory

  

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Solarus
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Fri Sep-27-02 07:06 AM

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148. "Mi Reflecciones"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I'm finally getting some time to do this. It's been almost a month since I've been back. Damn time flies. Anyways I wanted to take this time to post my thoughts and answer the questions put forward to me earlier. First I will answer the questions:

1)what is the main lesson you learned while living in Panama while you did?

Afrikans in America need to take advantage of resources here. Economic opportunites here seem alot more vast after experiencing a place where one can't even get a job cleaning toilets because of competition. Also Afrikans here need to realize that AFrikans around the WORLD are watching them and what is done here does influence and have an effect on others.


2)What is the current situation of the african presence there?

No jobs, need money. As far as cultural retentions...

Los Chombos (West Indian Blacks)- many are becoming more indoctrinated into the mainstream Panama society (physically as well as culturally) or leaving to go to America or place with more economic opportunities and thus losing their cultural identities. On the same token because of isolation and (physical and cultural) segregation in some parts (eg. Paraiso, many parts of Colon), they are maintaining their West Indian roots and with that subsequent Afrikan cultural retentions.

Los Congos-
Many Congos try to leave their homes along the Caribbean Coast and go where better economic opportunities are and thus have begun to leave their traditions. However because of the profitability and general Panamanian desire to showcase its "cultural diversity," it seems their is a resurging interest in preserving a specifically Congo identity.

3)What would be an important role that those africans in Panama would play in the future liberation of and reclamation of african peole and ways?

Good question. It's hard to answer but the most I could say is by identifying the USEFUL Afrikan cultural retentions that they have maintained in their daily routines (knowledge and use of herbs, family structures, music, dance, combatives?) and exposing them for their historical significance and future applicability.

4)Did you get a bout it machete?

I got three machetes but I wasn't able to find one of those handcrafted "traditional" joints like I wanted. But as far as usability goes, it suits me fine.

***

One thing that I realized while i was there is that "gringo" does not simply mean "white american" but is more specifically an "American citizen." My aunt and uncle were "gringos" because they both had american citizenships despite the fact that they were born Panamanians. Black Americans are sometimes called "gringo morenos" or "gringo negros" because all to often the gringos that are most often identified are white.

I didn't master Spanish but if i was there for one more month I know I would have gotten it. And I definitely will have to get it as i plan to go back but next time I want to talk to more elders wherever I go (but especially amongst the Congos). The next time I go I want to stay in Colon for a spell because Panama Province was way too Americanized for my taste. Too many McDonalds take away for one's uniqueness in my book. Plus Panama Province is a little too polluted for my tastes. The government does know the meaning of emissions tests.

The government down there is shit and the foreign movers and shakers need to be taken out.

Oh well... that's life.

I'm done.



____________________________
"the real pyramids were built with such precision that you can't slide a piece of paper between two 4,000 lb stones, and have shafts perfectly aligned so that you can see a tiny aperture through dozens of these mammoth blocks

  

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raool
Member since Jul 10th 2002
12355 posts
Tue Oct-01-02 08:37 AM

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155. "Gringo"
In response to Reply # 148


          

We use the same differentation in Haiti where every foreigner is called blan ( white) , Black Americans are referred as Blan Nwa ( literally Black White). Basically, the word has lost its definition to acquire another one.

  

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Solarus
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Fri Sep-27-02 07:07 AM

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149. "Please Archive"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


____________________________
"the real pyramids were built with such precision that you can't slide a piece of paper between two 4,000 lb stones, and have shafts perfectly aligned so that you can see a tiny aperture through dozens of these mammoth blocks

  

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ya Setshego
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Fri Sep-27-02 10:39 AM

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150. "RE: Please Archive"
In response to Reply # 149


  

          

She does not archive threads still on the first page. This means to her that there is still interest in the topic, and she wants to give everybody a chance to respond who wants to. Once it falls to page 2 or beyond, inbox her w/ your archive request. Then she will comply. This has been my experience, at least. Uuuuh....could you give me a heads-up about this pie situation, cuz a Sistah was SERIOUS when I made that request. Inbox me, if you must. I don't want to offend your lurker, or whatever.


htp.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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Solarus
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Tue Oct-01-02 04:35 AM

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151. "Please archive"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

PLEASE!

____________________________
"the real pyramids were built with such precision that you can't slide a piece of paper between two 4,000 lb stones, and have shafts perfectly aligned so that you can see a tiny aperture through dozens of these mammoth blocks

  

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ya Setshego
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Tue Oct-01-02 07:44 AM

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152. "Dude,"
In response to Reply # 151


  

          

Why don't you just inbox her?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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Solarus
Charter member
3604 posts
Tue Oct-01-02 07:51 AM

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153. "I DID!"
In response to Reply # 152


  

          


____________________________
"the real pyramids were built with such precision that you can't slide a piece of paper between two 4,000 lb stones, and have shafts perfectly aligned so that you can see a tiny aperture through dozens of these mammoth blocks

  

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guerilla_love
Charter member
8273 posts
Tue Oct-01-02 08:02 AM

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154. "she's gone"
In response to Reply # 153


          

we're just waiting for a replacement

.....

"Who need fossil fuel when the sun ain't goin' nowhere"
- Amiri Baraka

http://www.okayplayer.com/guidelines

BUY MY BOOK- only $6! Inbox me for details

  

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ya Setshego
Charter member
4259 posts
Tue Oct-01-02 10:18 AM

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156. "Since when%3F"
In response to Reply # 154


  

          

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Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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