Printer-friendly copy Email this topic to a friend
Lobby The Lesson topic #2608374

Subject: "Is the "Biggie is the greatest ever" notion a Brooklyn* thing only?" Previous topic | Next topic
atruhead
Charter member
84434 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 09:02 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
"Is the "Biggie is the greatest ever" notion a Brooklyn* thing only?"


  

          

*Puffy's opinion notwithstanding

and is it only due to his untimely passing?

classic debut, a 75% great double album, a rack of guest appearances and remixes and he's the greatest rapper of all time?

If you're from Brooklyn, I guess I understand. But Im from Harlem and I dont elevate Big L as an all time rap god

If you're not from Brooklyn, make your case for Big being the G.O.A.T

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top


Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
Naw I don't think it's only Brooklyn.
Sep 29th 2011
1
i live in brooklyn and i say its
Sep 29th 2011
2
I agree
Sep 29th 2011
4
RE: I agree
Sep 29th 2011
17
lol @ revisionism
Sep 29th 2011
20
      RE: lol @ revisionism
Sep 29th 2011
52
           RE: lol @ revisionism
Sep 29th 2011
85
           RE: lol @ revisionism
Sep 30th 2011
99
           RE: lol @ revisionism
Sep 30th 2011
107
                RE: lol @ revisionism
Sep 30th 2011
110
           RE: lol @ revisionism
Sep 30th 2011
101
                RE: lol @ revisionism
Sep 30th 2011
108
                     RE: lol @ revisionism
Sep 30th 2011
109
           actually this is all just patently false.
Sep 29th 2011
94
                point out whats false
Sep 30th 2011
100
                     you already exposed yourself as an ass.....who needs a shave.
Oct 03rd 2011
130
                          thank you
Oct 05th 2011
139
                          RE: you already exposed yourself as an ass.....who needs a shave.
Oct 12th 2011
145
jay is the greatest.
Sep 29th 2011
3
^^
Sep 29th 2011
7
what makes Big better than say Rakim or KRS in their primes?
Sep 29th 2011
10
ABSOLUTELY NOTHING
Sep 29th 2011
23
personality?
Sep 29th 2011
25
      RE: personality?
Sep 29th 2011
38
RE: jay is the greatest.
Sep 29th 2011
21
I've never been to Brooklyn, and he's my GOAT
Sep 29th 2011
5
RE: I've never been to Brooklyn, and he's my GOAT
Sep 29th 2011
14
RE: I've never been to Brooklyn, and he's my GOAT
Sep 29th 2011
19
the fact that you have a very narrow concept of social
Sep 29th 2011
22
RE: the fact that you have a very narrow concept of social
Sep 29th 2011
26
      your the one that implied Big didn't have the 'social
Sep 29th 2011
84
           uhh he didn't
Oct 05th 2011
140
So wait
Sep 29th 2011
37
RE: So wait
Sep 29th 2011
41
      I don't associate people's weight with their opinions, dude
Sep 29th 2011
42
      RE: I don't associate people's weight with their opinions, dude
Sep 29th 2011
44
           I'm an average sized white guy from Canada my friend
Sep 29th 2011
46
      RE: So wait
Oct 03rd 2011
127
RE: I've never been to Brooklyn, and he's my GOAT
Sep 29th 2011
88
RE: I've never been to Brooklyn, and he's my GOAT
Sep 30th 2011
117
This is perhaps one of the worst/weakest/wackest arguments ever.
Oct 12th 2011
144
RE: I've never been to Brooklyn, and he's my GOAT
Sep 29th 2011
28
      RE: I've never been to Brooklyn, and he's my GOAT
Sep 29th 2011
40
           RE: I've never been to Brooklyn, and he's my GOAT
Sep 29th 2011
43
                RE: I've never been to Brooklyn, and he's my GOAT
Sep 29th 2011
45
                RE: I've never been to Brooklyn, and he's my GOAT
Sep 30th 2011
115
As well...
Sep 29th 2011
6
*poses in front of Big L mural with hands in praying position*
Sep 29th 2011
9
      LOL I shouldn't have said anything
Sep 29th 2011
11
      yea, your Freaky Tah analogy was terrible lol
Sep 29th 2011
13
      everyone who dies gets exaggerated
Sep 30th 2011
102
      c'mon.
Sep 29th 2011
27
           If Big L hadn't died Biggie wouldn't have been King of NY.
Sep 29th 2011
29
                Huh?
Sep 29th 2011
30
                     i donno dude
Sep 29th 2011
33
                          i blame cardan.
Sep 29th 2011
36
                               lol pierre lol
Sep 29th 2011
47
                                    But what was Huddy Combs' involvement?
Sep 30th 2011
122
Canibus started that.
Sep 29th 2011
8
I'm from Virginia and used to say that.......
Sep 29th 2011
12
RE: Is the "Biggie is the greatest ever" notion a Brooklyn* thing only?
Sep 29th 2011
15
RE: Is the "Biggie is the greatest ever" notion a Brooklyn* thing only?
Sep 29th 2011
31
RE: Is the "Biggie is the greatest ever" notion a Brooklyn* thing only?
Sep 29th 2011
16
you'd want Biggie to make an Exit 13? : /
Sep 29th 2011
24
      RE: you'd want Biggie to make an Exit 13? : /
Sep 29th 2011
32
           no I dont. Biggie backed up his claims with great music.
Sep 29th 2011
83
people are still unsuccessfully trying to imitate Biggie.
Sep 29th 2011
18
RE: people are still unsuccessfully trying to imitate Biggie.
Sep 29th 2011
35
      RE: people are still unsuccessfully trying to imitate Biggie.
Sep 29th 2011
86
I'd say right after he died, it was an East Coast thing
Sep 29th 2011
34
Puff was the one to start that nonsense.
Sep 29th 2011
39
Is it nonsense though?
Sep 29th 2011
50
      It's ridiculous cause he had two albums. I mean how fair is that?
Sep 29th 2011
56
           I don't recall anyone referencing his lack of writing lyrics down
Sep 29th 2011
69
I'm almost 100%positive that I never heard that sentiment until he died
Sep 29th 2011
48
Yep and it came out of the mouth of Puffy and Puffy only.
Sep 29th 2011
49
ditto.
Sep 29th 2011
58
word like I'm sure he had mad fans who thought he was the best
Sep 29th 2011
79
I Agree, Many Liked Him But Not On The Level They Do Now
Sep 30th 2011
96
It's not a BK thing..I once felt that way too that he was at least
Sep 29th 2011
51
i f you're over 25 and BIG isn't in your top 10, the side eye you get
Sep 29th 2011
53
Sorry man but big aint coming before BDK, BT, or Redman.
Sep 29th 2011
60
Current King of NY makes a song about Former King of NY:
Sep 29th 2011
54
when did papoose pass it off?
Sep 29th 2011
55
As an aside, has anyone from Wu stepped to Smoke DZA about his name?
Sep 29th 2011
57
      i believe dza is slang for weed or something
Sep 29th 2011
92
I think he had the GOAT flow but as far overall package, nah.
Sep 29th 2011
59
He had two albums, two.
Sep 29th 2011
61
Uhhhh....
Sep 29th 2011
62
Hendrix was crowned by his peers though
Sep 29th 2011
64
      You're saying B.I.G. wasn't? C'mon kwez
Sep 29th 2011
66
           Biggie was nice as fuck no doubt
Sep 29th 2011
68
                You're right. On that level, how many do?
Sep 29th 2011
71
                     Nope, there are tons of emcees with at least 2 great albums
Sep 29th 2011
74
                     Let's break these down one by one, shall we?
Sep 29th 2011
77
                          ll cool j has 3-4 great albums
Sep 29th 2011
93
                          RE: Let's break these down one by one, shall we?
Oct 04th 2011
138
                     Big Daddy Kane has two great albums?
Sep 29th 2011
81
And...
Sep 29th 2011
63
      Maybe so...
Sep 29th 2011
65
           In contrast, Jay-Z also has more shit sticking to him
Sep 29th 2011
67
                You know why? Two albums.
Sep 29th 2011
70
                     So if you make 20 songs, and 18 are nice
Sep 29th 2011
72
                          Hell naw lol
Sep 29th 2011
73
                               We ain't talkin a one and done deal though, are we?
Sep 29th 2011
75
                                    The facts are, by sheer volume of great songs Jay wins
Sep 29th 2011
76
What I think is worse is Lauryn Hill = Best female rapper ever
Sep 29th 2011
78
So if not her, who?
Sep 29th 2011
82
mc lyte and latifah are #1 and #2 in my book
Sep 29th 2011
91
      sounds like you need a new book.
Sep 29th 2011
95
      I mean....it's the whole Bo Jackson vs. [insert RB] argument
Sep 30th 2011
97
      The problem with those girls is the allegation they didn't write...
Sep 30th 2011
104
           not really allegation - it's fact.
Sep 30th 2011
105
           Wait, so Lyte and Latifah didn't write their own?
Sep 30th 2011
118
                That's the word
Sep 30th 2011
119
           what songs though?...allegations dont mean shit to me
Oct 05th 2011
142
I was actually talking to my co-worker about that
Sep 29th 2011
89
      Yeah for sure. And I mean, female rappers obviously aren't near
Sep 30th 2011
98
RE: Is the "Biggie is the greatest ever" notion a Brooklyn* thing only?
Sep 29th 2011
80
He's not in my top 5
Sep 29th 2011
87
Canibus was the first I heard say it on the LL diss
Sep 29th 2011
90
He was a Lyricist that had commercial appeal
Sep 30th 2011
103
^^^^^^^^^^
Sep 30th 2011
106
in the time where he dropped I would agree
Sep 30th 2011
112
      I tried to stay away from Jay and Snoop
Sep 30th 2011
114
      I think it's unfair to judge Jay like that though
Oct 03rd 2011
125
           Well that's the way it is
Oct 04th 2011
136
      "and how to sell records like Snoop, oops" (c) Big
Sep 30th 2011
116
you answer your question since its been 15 years since his passing
Sep 30th 2011
111
I get a feeling listening to him rap that I never got from any other art...
Sep 30th 2011
113
Big LOL on this failed analogy
Sep 30th 2011
120
basically. even when he died i remember ppl still saying pac was
Sep 30th 2011
121
despite what chicks at your high school said because they thought
Sep 30th 2011
123
      had nothing to do with his looks. the point is they still liked pac more
Oct 03rd 2011
124
notice how no-one bashes the "BIG's the greatest" arguement like Pac?
Oct 03rd 2011
126
wut?
Oct 03rd 2011
128
BIG and Pac both have great songs
Oct 04th 2011
131
      hmm.
Oct 04th 2011
134
west coast rap died with Pac unfortunately. east coast rap still had
Oct 03rd 2011
129
      RE: west coast rap died with Pac unfortunately. east coast rap still had
Oct 04th 2011
132
      But that there actually makes a case for Pac
Oct 04th 2011
133
           i don't mind people saying pac is GOAT.
Oct 04th 2011
135
                whoops.
Oct 04th 2011
137
As talented & impactful as he was, the catalog was 2 short
Oct 05th 2011
141
RE: Is the "Biggie is the greatest ever" notion a Brooklyn* thing only?
Oct 12th 2011
143
Aesop Rock and El P are the best rappers ever
Oct 18th 2011
146
ASAP Rocky, maybe.
Oct 19th 2011
147
it's all bullshit
Oct 24th 2011
148

Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
18021 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 09:13 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
1. "Naw I don't think it's only Brooklyn."
In response to Reply # 0


          

I know plenty of people who are hiphop heads and not just the type of people who automatically put Big and Pac at 1 and 2 who say Biggie is the best ever to do it.

I think there's an argument to be made. His short track record isn't his fault, obviously, but the material he DOES have has withstood the test of time and is mostly high quality.

As far as specific skills I think it's worth noting how effortlessly he flowed on every beat he was ever on. It's something to be said about his voice and personality on the mic no matter what type of track he was on, he fit it perfectly.

Lyrically he epitomized what the 90s were: hardcore, crack and murder rap while still being able to (somehow) appeal to the ladies with certain tracks without coming off corny, at all.

So yea, while I may not be one to say that he's the greatest ever, I think there's a very strong case to be made even considering his minimal material and I'm rarely mad at anyone who states he IS the greatest.

And to answer your question again, I've heard it from tons of hiphop heads outside of Brooklyn, too.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

howardlloyd
Member since Jan 18th 2007
2647 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 09:16 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
2. "i live in brooklyn and i say its"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

revisionism.

he was truly the king of NY but at the time of his death i'd say rakim/kane/krs/slick rick were still considered the best (especially ra)

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
13Rose
Charter member
19379 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 09:35 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
4. "I agree"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

B.I.G. was on top of the world when he passed but he wasn't on top of Rakim as far as G.O.A.T. If Canibus never said that line I think we would be having a different conversation.

This post was paid for by the following.

www.twitter.com/13Rose
www.debunkthemyth.org
http://dashaunworld.wordpress.com/
www.mothergreen.com

Remember MJ The Great!
PSN: ThirteenRose

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
True
Member since Jan 29th 2008
680 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 11:41 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
17. "RE: I agree"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

>B.I.G. was on top of the world when he passed but he wasn't
>on top of Rakim as far as G.O.A.T. If Canibus never said that
>line I think we would be having a different conversation.

Exactly! That stupid ass line and peoples hatred for LL Cool J is one of the main reasons heads say what they say about Big

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
sweeneykovar
Member since Oct 26th 2004
10072 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 11:48 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
20. "lol @ revisionism"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

it takes time to deem someone the best of all time seriously so the fact that people didn't call Big that off the bat and now do is not revisionism, its the way shit works!

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
howardlloyd
Member since Jan 18th 2007
2647 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 01:04 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
52. "RE: lol @ revisionism"
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

i disagree...

it didnt take time with rakim

it didnt take time with jordan

it didnt take time with MJ

the truth is...BIG made two albums. if he hadnt died he wouldnt have entered the convo. he was marketed into the conversation

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
sweeneykovar
Member since Oct 26th 2004
10072 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 08:28 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
85. "RE: lol @ revisionism"
In response to Reply # 52


  

          

Jordan is basketball, dont apply.

MJ was not the greatest entertainer when he was 5 years old, it took literally a lifetime.

and the Rakim, KRS and Kane's had the distinct advantage of being the first to do many things, Big came in an era where hip hop was not new to many, although to some it continued to be a new thing for years.


so you're argument is pretty feeble.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
howardlloyd
Member since Jan 18th 2007
2647 posts
Fri Sep-30-11 07:06 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
99. "RE: lol @ revisionism"
In response to Reply # 85
Fri Sep-30-11 07:16 AM by howardlloyd

  

          

**your argument was "it takes time"

my point was all them dudes was recognized while ALIVE and still DOING IT. in fact ra was thrust into the convo after ONE ALBUM

they werent dead or retired...they were recognized as the GOAT while DOING IT

you can say its false all u want. go get any magazine from the time.

no one said BIG was the best.

wu came at big like he was a nobody. anybody ever come at Ra like that?

wasnt the best then and isnt the best now

**And MJ was 8 when he started and early 20s when thriller dropped. of course no one is gonna say a teen or a 8 yr old is the greatest. but as soon as he stepped out solo...it took 2 albums???

lol

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
sweeneykovar
Member since Oct 26th 2004
10072 posts
Fri Sep-30-11 10:22 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
107. "RE: lol @ revisionism"
In response to Reply # 99


  

          

>**your argument was "it takes time"
>
>my point was all them dudes was recognized while ALIVE and
>still DOING IT. in fact ra was thrust into the convo after ONE
>ALBUM
>
>they werent dead or retired...they were recognized as the GOAT
>while DOING IT


so all that king of NY talk was something just a few rap nerds were concerned about... yeah.


>
>you can say its false all u want. go get any magazine from
>the time.
>
>no one said BIG was the best.


LOOOOOOOL at referring to a magazine, I could give a fuck which one, as a barometer for who was the best at the time. and fuck going by the opinions of some jaded, headstrong heads (who just like today) cant acknowledge anything new as great without a caveat.

>
>wu came at big like he was a nobody. anybody ever come at Ra
>like that?


Kane almost did.


>
>wasnt the best then and isnt the best now
>
>**And MJ was 8 when he started and early 20s when thriller
>dropped. of course no one is gonna say a teen or a 8 yr old
>is the greatest. but as soon as he stepped out solo...it took
>2 albums???


thats 12 years. longer than Biggie was active.


>
>lol

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                        
howardlloyd
Member since Jan 18th 2007
2647 posts
Fri Sep-30-11 10:47 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
110. "RE: lol @ revisionism"
In response to Reply # 107


  

          


>so all that king of NY talk was something just a few rap nerds
>were concerned about... yeah.

you can be king of NY (for a period) and still not be GOAT genius. in my first post i said he was K.O.N.Y.

>LOOOOOOOL at referring to a magazine, I could give a fuck
>which one, as a barometer for who was the best at the time.
>and fuck going by the opinions of some jaded, headstrong heads
>(who just like today) cant acknowledge anything new as great
>without a caveat.

man...i could give a fuck about a magazine either...but the shit was the UNANIMOUS opinion. if u said anybody other than ra-krs-slick rick-kool g or kane....everyone would look at funny. it wasnt no disputing it.

>>wu came at big like he was a nobody. anybody ever come at
>Ra
>>like that?
>
>
>Kane almost did.

almost...maybe...perhaps ..no!! shark niggas...saying BIG was living vicariously through UN

haha...catholic school boy


>thats 12 years. longer than Biggie was active.

again...by the time mike matured to serious artist... he was considered a great. prolly around the same time that bid died.

u still havent addressed why all the others were considered amongst the best out the gate

explain nas for instance

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
howardlloyd
Member since Jan 18th 2007
2647 posts
Fri Sep-30-11 07:11 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
101. "RE: lol @ revisionism"
In response to Reply # 85


  

          


>and the Rakim, KRS and Kane's had the distinct advantage of
>being the first to do many things, Big came in an era where
>hip hop was not new to many, although to some it continued to
>be a new thing for years.

hip hop was on record for over 7 years by the time any of em dropped. why were THEY the ones with the opportunity to do new things...??

no one has come with a new style since them or big? did Andre 3000 do new shit after BIG?
lol

>so you're argument is pretty feeble.
those in glass houses

again...Big made a good first album (heightened by remixes and B-sides) that was borderline too commercial and a second album that was overly commercial. many of the "true" heads was on the fence not over his lyrical skill but his albums and puffy connection/marketing

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
sweeneykovar
Member since Oct 26th 2004
10072 posts
Fri Sep-30-11 10:23 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
108. "RE: lol @ revisionism"
In response to Reply # 101


  

          

>
>>and the Rakim, KRS and Kane's had the distinct advantage of
>>being the first to do many things, Big came in an era where
>>hip hop was not new to many, although to some it continued
>to
>>be a new thing for years.
>
>hip hop was on record for over 7 years by the time any of em
>dropped. why were THEY the ones with the opportunity to do
>new things...??


yes, things like regular nationwide and international tours, things like heavy TV and radio presence (in comparison to the past), things like the ability to make substantial money off their music and have it heard in places not heard in the past, yes.


>
>no one has come with a new style since them or big? did Andre
>3000 do new shit after BIG?
>lol


half of NY is still tryna rap like Biggie. Some of the most successful rappers of today have incorporated styles from Biggie.



>
>>so you're argument is pretty feeble.
>those in glass houses
>
>again...Big made a good first album (heightened by remixes and
>B-sides) that was borderline too commercial and a second album
>that was overly commercial. many of the "true" heads was on
>the fence not over his lyrical skill but his albums and puffy
>connection/marketing

you sound like mad head from '93. don't be mad cuz no one is taking your opinion seriously.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                        
howardlloyd
Member since Jan 18th 2007
2647 posts
Fri Sep-30-11 10:41 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
109. "RE: lol @ revisionism"
In response to Reply # 108


  

          


>yes, things like regular nationwide and international tours,
>things like heavy TV and radio presence (in comparison to the
>past), things like the ability to make substantial money off
>their music and have it heard in places not heard in the past,
>yes.

Run DMC, whodini, kurtis blow are laughing at u (1) and (2) we talking about RHYMING muhfucker...not success, popularity, going platinum. Stylistically Ra was a new beast and thats why he was the best. i didnt know what he looked like and he had the biggest records in NYC in 86

>
>half of NY is still tryna rap like Biggie. Some of the most
>successful rappers of today have incorporated styles from
>Biggie.

lol...prove it.

>>>so you're argument is pretty feeble.
>>those in glass houses

>you sound like mad head from '93. don't be mad cuz no one is
>taking your opinion seriously.

and you sound like a noob...i could give a fuck about what other people say or think...Ra is still the GOD MC...Nas is the still the second coming (another example to destroy your it takes time argument...NAS was considered one of the best as soon as illmatic dropped)

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
40760 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 11:52 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
94. "actually this is all just patently false. "
In response to Reply # 52


  

          

>i disagree...
>
>it didnt take time with rakim
>
>it didnt take time with jordan
>
>it didnt take time with MJ
>
>the truth is...BIG made two albums. if he hadnt died he
>wouldnt have entered the convo. he was marketed into the
>conversation

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
howardlloyd
Member since Jan 18th 2007
2647 posts
Fri Sep-30-11 07:07 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
100. "point out whats false"
In response to Reply # 94


  

          

expose yourself as an ass...

who prolly was nowhere around

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
40760 posts
Mon Oct-03-11 11:38 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
130. "you already exposed yourself as an ass.....who needs a shave. "
In response to Reply # 100


  

          

anyhow, i'll indulge your willful ignorance.

it took time for all those dudes to get recognized the way they are now

in fact, jordan is a great example. all that adoration he gets now? lol! he was shit on CRAZY early on. it's well documented. even the players didn't like his ass. the media talked about how he epitomized everything wrong with the nba. don't sit here and ask for links or some dumb shit, you're unwashed ass has access to the same internet i do. so after you hit the soup kitchen for a hot shower and a sandwich, look it up. the jordan knob slobbing in mass quantities came when he started winning rings.

rakim was acknowledged as a ground breaking artist when he came out but there were many who felt like he wasn't fuckin with krs even then. in fact rakim didn't really, truly reach god status until his offspring started popping up and he was rightly recognized as the father to a style that would become prominent in the 90's.

the bottom line was these two were major from jump but you're delusional if you think they had that god status in their youth. that shit came much later.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                        
astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
20029 posts
Wed Oct-05-11 01:12 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
139. "thank you"
In response to Reply # 130


  

          

good grief i literally laughed out loud when i read those lines

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                        
howardlloyd
Member since Jan 18th 2007
2647 posts
Wed Oct-12-11 07:36 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
145. "RE: you already exposed yourself as an ass.....who needs a shave. "
In response to Reply # 130
Wed Oct-12-11 07:47 PM by howardlloyd

  

          

>anyhow, i'll indulge your willful ignorance.
>
>it took time for all those dudes to get recognized the way
>they are now
>
>in fact, jordan is a great example. all that adoration he gets
>now? lol! he was shit on CRAZY early on. it's well documented.
>even the players didn't like his ass. the media talked about
>how he epitomized everything wrong with the nba. don't sit
>here and ask for links or some dumb shit, you're unwashed ass
>has access to the same internet i do. so after you hit the
>soup kitchen for a hot shower and a sandwich, look it up. the
>jordan knob slobbing in mass quantities came when he started
>winning rings.
(1) you sound gay and real white

(2) this how u full of shit. jordan was the man way before he won rings. did he catch backlash from older players YES... but did people annoint him after the 63 points in Larry Bords ugly mug??? YES. when the Jordans dropped forget it!

i dont have to look it up...i was there!


>rakim was acknowledged as a ground breaking artist when he
>came out but there were many who felt like he wasn't fuckin
>with krs even then. in fact rakim didn't really, truly reach
>god status until his offspring started popping up and he was
>rightly recognized as the father to a style that would become
>prominent in the 90's.

again...flat out BS. People said he was the best from the get and people actually said KRS was WACK after South Bronx...people didnt think he was MC to be reckoned with until 'the bridge is over' dropped. South Bronx was a lil something...but AINT NOBODY say KRS was in his league then. it was ra, kane, g rap and slick rick.

YOU WERENT THERE - revisionist
edit: rakim's "imitators" were immediate

EPMD had to address it on album number 2 (1989/1990) - "that we sound like the R and our music was wack"

people bit his style immediately. cats were screaming like run and LL before ra.

honestly how long u been listening...cuz u damn sure wasnt there
>the bottom line was these two were major from jump but you're
>delusional if you think they had that god status in their
>youth. that shit came much later.

not true at all...people starting saying ra fell off after the 3rd album. how could u fall from someplace u hadnt reached yet?

go back to commenting on another grown mans beard faggot

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Guinness
Charter member
26270 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 09:22 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
3. "jay is the greatest."
In response to Reply # 0
Thu Sep-29-11 09:22 AM by Guinness

  

          

there's no argument otherwise.

but BIG was the best. maybe there's a walter payton/bo jackson analogue to be drawn.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
guru0509
Charter member
42048 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 09:44 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
7. "^^"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          


_______________________________
Trouble/Don Cannon -Green Light
Evidence - Cats & Dogs
Phonte - Charity Starts At Home


  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
atruhead
Charter member
84434 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 09:57 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
10. "what makes Big better than say Rakim or KRS in their primes?"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
True
Member since Jan 29th 2008
680 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 11:50 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
23. "ABSOLUTELY NOTHING"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Guinness
Charter member
26270 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 11:51 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
25. "personality?"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

krs and rakim are obviously two of the best/greatest rappers ever, and i'm not slighting them. i just found biggie more engaging, human and funny.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
True
Member since Jan 29th 2008
680 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 12:07 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
38. "RE: personality?"
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

>krs and rakim are obviously two of the best/greatest rappers
>ever, and i'm not slighting them. i just found biggie more
>engaging, human and funny.

fair enough, Big had a humorous and entertainment value vs most other great mcs seriousness and I do think an analogy of him to Bo Jackson is on point

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
True
Member since Jan 29th 2008
680 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 11:49 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
21. "RE: jay is the greatest."
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

Jay is the most successful but wouldn't call him the greatest either. To be the greatest you have to win championships, Jay lost his only major battle to a non battle rapper (Nas) and didn't step to the challenge against the true GOAT LL while he goes back and forth with all these mediocre cats

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

CMcMurtry
Member since Nov 28th 2002
17053 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 09:37 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
5. "I've never been to Brooklyn, and he's my GOAT"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I know the argument is that he only has two albums, so how can he be better than those with six or seven. But I feel like he did more with those two albums than anyone else has with their entire discography, Jay-Z included.

He could do every time of song, and do it better than whoever you think it's the nicest at it, or at least AS good. Storytelling? Check. R&B crossover shit? Check. Club joints? Check. Straight boom bap for the heads? Hell yes.

Big also has the benefit of not being around to tarnish his only legacy. Who knows what his career would've looked like had he not been killed. Would he be a mogul like Jay? A legend who's time has come and gone but he doesn't know it like LL? An icon with a super loyal fanbase but largely ignored by the mainstream like Nas? An act that tours and sells music based on nostalgia like Wu?

Who knows.

But he's the best to ever do it, IMO.

___________________________
OL' DIRTY BASTARD on himself:
"I may curse, I may have a bad mouth, whatever whatever. I'm not that bad, yaknow'mean. Bad to y'all, I dunno how y'all... I don't give a fuck. Um, I'm a good person at heart, for real and shit.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
ps
Member since Nov 21st 2003
1116 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 10:31 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
14. "RE: I've never been to Brooklyn, and he's my GOAT"
In response to Reply # 5


          

>I know the argument is that he only has two albums, so how
>can he be better than those with six or seven. But I feel like
>he did more with those two albums than anyone else has with
>their entire discography, Jay-Z included.
>
>He could do every time of song, and do it better than whoever
>you think it's the nicest at it, or at least AS good.
>Storytelling? Check. R&B crossover shit? Check. Club joints?
>Check. Straight boom bap for the heads? Hell yes.
>
>Big also has the benefit of not being around to tarnish his
>only legacy. Who knows what his career would've looked like
>had he not been killed. Would he be a mogul like Jay? A legend
>who's time has come and gone but he doesn't know it like LL?
>An icon with a super loyal fanbase but largely ignored by the
>mainstream like Nas? An act that tours and sells music based
>on nostalgia like Wu?
>
>Who knows.
>
>But he's the best to ever do it, IMO.


Spot on.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
True
Member since Jan 29th 2008
680 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 11:47 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
19. "RE: I've never been to Brooklyn, and he's my GOAT"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

>I know the argument is that he only has two albums, so how
>can he be better than those with six or seven. But I feel like
>he did more with those two albums than anyone else has with
>their entire discography, Jay-Z included.
>
>He could do every time of song, and do it better than whoever
>you think it's the nicest at it, or at least AS good.
>Storytelling? Check. R&B crossover shit? Check. Club joints?
>Check. Straight boom bap for the heads? Hell yes.
>
>Big also has the benefit of not being around to tarnish his
>only legacy. Who knows what his career would've looked like
>had he not been killed. Would he be a mogul like Jay? A legend
>who's time has come and gone but he doesn't know it like LL?
>An icon with a super loyal fanbase but largely ignored by the
>mainstream like Nas? An act that tours and sells music based
>on nostalgia like Wu?
>
>Who knows.
>
>But he's the best to ever do it, IMO.


do it all the best? Social commentary better than Pac? Any political tracks you can name he did better than dead prez, PE or Immortal Technique. Did he win grammies like Meth did with All I Need that appealed to street cats and females. People try way too hard when it comes to Big and there was nothing incredible about his stage show. the U.S. is a obeast society filled with ugly people with low self esteem (another reason why many hate LL cause they don't relate to his being fit) so Big was there hero, I don't know one fat person who Big is not their fav rapper

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
sweeneykovar
Member since Oct 26th 2004
10072 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 11:49 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
22. "the fact that you have a very narrow concept of social"
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

commentary suggests you're not the best judge of music.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
True
Member since Jan 29th 2008
680 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 11:53 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
26. "RE: the fact that you have a very narrow concept of social"
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

>commentary suggests you're not the best judge of music.

that fact that you are assuming what my concept of social commentary is shows that you're not a very good judge of peoples perspective or a good mind reader

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
sweeneykovar
Member since Oct 26th 2004
10072 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 08:26 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
84. "your the one that implied Big didn't have the 'social "
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

commentary' of some of his peers.

I guess I'm bad at reading what people write : /

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
20029 posts
Wed Oct-05-11 01:19 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
140. "uhh he didn't"
In response to Reply # 84


  

          

and there is nothing on record to prove other wise. of course unless your going to use the intelelctual deconstruction method of what his raps elucidate about the environment and commmunity he was representing

and please don't come in here with the lines from "Juicy" or "Sky's the Limit" speaking to dreaming and accomplishing your goals in a racist society

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
CMcMurtry
Member since Nov 28th 2002
17053 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 12:07 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
37. "So wait"
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

The reason people like Biggie is because they're fat, and the reason people don't like LL is because they're jealous he's in shape and they're not?

And I thought I've heard every silly hip hop argument...

___________________________
OL' DIRTY BASTARD on himself:
"I may curse, I may have a bad mouth, whatever whatever. I'm not that bad, yaknow'mean. Bad to y'all, I dunno how y'all... I don't give a fuck. Um, I'm a good person at heart, for real and shit.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
True
Member since Jan 29th 2008
680 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 12:10 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
41. "RE: So wait"
In response to Reply # 37


  

          

>The reason people like Biggie is because they're fat, and the
>reason people don't like LL is because they're jealous he's in
>shape and they're not?
>
>And I thought I've heard every silly hip hop argument...

just an observation I've made. Yes people are jealous of other people, hard to believe huh? And yes fat people like people they can relate to, hard to imagine huh? Let me ask you this, you know a fat hip hop head that don't like Biggie?

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
CMcMurtry
Member since Nov 28th 2002
17053 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 12:12 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
42. "I don't associate people's weight with their opinions, dude"
In response to Reply # 41


  

          

___________________________
OL' DIRTY BASTARD on himself:
"I may curse, I may have a bad mouth, whatever whatever. I'm not that bad, yaknow'mean. Bad to y'all, I dunno how y'all... I don't give a fuck. Um, I'm a good person at heart, for real and shit.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
True
Member since Jan 29th 2008
680 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 12:16 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
44. "RE: I don't associate people's weight with their opinions, dude"
In response to Reply # 42


  

          

>

people like who they can relate to, that's just a fact jack

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                        
CMcMurtry
Member since Nov 28th 2002
17053 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 12:21 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
46. "I'm an average sized white guy from Canada my friend"
In response to Reply # 44


  

          

How can I relate to Biggie Smalls, a fat, dark skinned dude from Brooklyn on a personal level? I just think he made captivating music.

___________________________
OL' DIRTY BASTARD on himself:
"I may curse, I may have a bad mouth, whatever whatever. I'm not that bad, yaknow'mean. Bad to y'all, I dunno how y'all... I don't give a fuck. Um, I'm a good person at heart, for real and shit.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
mrliberfarb
Member since Jan 23rd 2008
1022 posts
Mon Oct-03-11 09:40 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
127. "RE: So wait"
In response to Reply # 41


  

          


>they can relate to, hard to imagine huh? Let me ask you this,
>you know a fat hip hop head that don't like Biggie?
>

i don't know anyone who doesn't like biggie

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
cjr2221
Member since Sep 04th 2011
1790 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 09:48 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
88. "RE: I've never been to Brooklyn, and he's my GOAT"
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

LMFAO, lol that's funny man.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
cidolfas
Member since Nov 29th 2006
2139 posts
Fri Sep-30-11 01:43 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
117. "RE: I've never been to Brooklyn, and he's my GOAT"
In response to Reply # 19
Fri Sep-30-11 01:47 PM by cidolfas

  

          

>the U.S. is a obeast society
>filled with ugly people with low self esteem (another reason
>why many hate LL cause they don't relate to his being fit) so
>Big was there hero, I don't know one fat person who Big is not
>their fav rapper

Damn, you're really killing your own argument here.

People probably don't relate to LL because he strayed the true course and became wack shortly after the time Biggie was put on. Since then he's made some good songs, but albums? FOH.

Obesity might be a problem in the States, but this is one of the most ridiculous arguments I've seen on this site.

People champion looks that they don't possess. Most people in the entertainment biz are sporting 5-star looks, and yeah, that's part of what made Biggie dope as fuck.

He was fucking ugly and nasty but was he was himself. He had a personality that could captivate a room. Everyone fed off that energy. Including Pac who was more visually captivating.

But seriously. Why are you judging people's opinions of what they like based on what they look like? Specifically, on a site like this. Everyone here is a music nerd to some degree.

Next are you going to tell me Lil Wayne > Big because he's not as fat? Is Nas your favorite because you think he's "cute"?

_________________

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
WarriorPoet415
Member since Sep 30th 2003
17513 posts
Wed Oct-12-11 03:52 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
144. "This is perhaps one of the worst/weakest/wackest arguments ever."
In response to Reply # 19


  

          


______________________________________________________________________________

"There's a fine line between persistence and foolishness..."
-unknown

"To Each His Reach"
-George Clinton

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
True
Member since Jan 29th 2008
680 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 11:56 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
28. "RE: I've never been to Brooklyn, and he's my GOAT"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

>I know the argument is that he only has two albums, so how
>can he be better than those with six or seven. But I feel like
>he did more with those two albums than anyone else has with
>their entire discography, Jay-Z included.
>
>He could do every time of song, and do it better than whoever
>you think it's the nicest at it, or at least AS good.
>Storytelling? Check. R&B crossover shit? Check. Club joints?
>Check. Straight boom bap for the heads? Hell yes.
>
>Big also has the benefit of not being around to tarnish his
>only legacy. Who knows what his career would've looked like
>had he not been killed. Would he be a mogul like Jay? A legend
>who's time has come and gone but he doesn't know it like LL?
>An icon with a super loyal fanbase but largely ignored by the
>mainstream like Nas? An act that tours and sells music based
>on nostalgia like Wu?
>
>Who knows.
>
>But he's the best to ever do it, IMO.

Big a better storyteller than Nas? Word? lol. And Wu Tang has been making some of the hottest hip hop these past few years, well, Ghost and Rae at least, many fans are still enjoying the output of Wu affiliated releases, Cuban Linx 2, Apollo Kids, Blackout 2, Shaolin Vs Wu are all solid releases better than most other hip hp coming out

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
CMcMurtry
Member since Nov 28th 2002
17053 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 12:09 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
40. "RE: I've never been to Brooklyn, and he's my GOAT"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

>Big a better storyteller than Nas? Word? lol.

He's in the same league, IMO.

> And Wu Tang has
>been making some of the hottest hip hop these past few years,
>well, Ghost and Rae at least, many fans are still enjoying the
>output of Wu affiliated releases, Cuban Linx 2, Apollo Kids,
>Blackout 2, Shaolin Vs Wu are all solid releases better than
>most other hip hp coming out

I never said they weren't good, but it's all based on people's yearning for yesteryear, album titles and all.

___________________________
OL' DIRTY BASTARD on himself:
"I may curse, I may have a bad mouth, whatever whatever. I'm not that bad, yaknow'mean. Bad to y'all, I dunno how y'all... I don't give a fuck. Um, I'm a good person at heart, for real and shit.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
True
Member since Jan 29th 2008
680 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 12:15 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
43. "RE: I've never been to Brooklyn, and he's my GOAT"
In response to Reply # 40


  

          

>>Big a better storyteller than Nas? Word? lol.
>
>He's in the same league, IMO.

well I never heard Big do something like I Gave You Power, Rewind, 2nd Childhood, Undying Love, Money is My Bitch that impressed me like Nas and I feel Big is completely incapable of doing a collaborative effort like Distant Relatives like Nas did with Marley. Nas is half man half amazing, Big has never done something where I've said to myself I wish I could do that because he is pretty simple and basic compared to the greatest, did I mention his stage show, a key factor in being a great mc was WACK!

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
CMcMurtry
Member since Nov 28th 2002
17053 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 12:19 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
45. "RE: I've never been to Brooklyn, and he's my GOAT"
In response to Reply # 43


  

          

>well I never heard Big do something like I Gave You Power,
>Rewind, 2nd Childhood, Undying Love, Money is My Bitch

I Got A Story To Tell
Niggas Bleed
Somebody Gotta Die
The Warning
Gimme The Loot

>did I mention his stage show, a key factor in being
>a great mc was WACK!

I only saw him live once, and I was 14, so my memory may be bad, but dude's reputation was that he was a pretty ill stage performer. I mean, since you were hung up on awards earlier, he did win Best Live Performer at the infamous 95 Source awards. Most people I know who saw him say they came away feeling as though they got their moneys worth.

___________________________
OL' DIRTY BASTARD on himself:
"I may curse, I may have a bad mouth, whatever whatever. I'm not that bad, yaknow'mean. Bad to y'all, I dunno how y'all... I don't give a fuck. Um, I'm a good person at heart, for real and shit.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
cidolfas
Member since Nov 29th 2006
2139 posts
Fri Sep-30-11 01:33 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
115. "RE: I've never been to Brooklyn, and he's my GOAT"
In response to Reply # 43


  

          

>>>Big a better storyteller than Nas? Word? lol.

Yes, he is, actually. Nas is fantastic, the second best storyteller, but it really takes a song like "Shootouts" to better compare. Concept songs don't always fit the bill.

>I feel Big is completely incapable
>of doing a collaborative effort like Distant Relatives like
>Nas did with Marley.

I fail how to see how this is relative to the discussion at hand. Nas is my GOAT but that album wasn't very listenable for me. It was too reggae influenced and some of it wasn't as good as it was getting praised. Overall, how does one's ability to work in a group setting correlate to the title of GOAT?


>Big has
>never done something where I've said to myself I wish I could
>do that because he is pretty simple and basic compared to the
>greatest

Seemingly simple =/= simple. That's the point. It's supposed to appear effortless. There's nothing simple about Big. He was as complex as Nas has ever been, though less poetic at times.

>did I mention his stage show, a key factor in being
>a great mc was WACK!

Since I'm at the library I can't search for the link, but will someone please post a YouTube of Big killing a show that him and Nas are both present for? Nas spits some shit off 'It Was Written' to mediocre response from the crowd (Nas's presence is weak), and then Big crushes and steals the show.

Don't get me wrong, I don't have Big as my number one, but I'll be damned if he wasn't close while he was alive. And he continues to have a strong presence in the game with his legacy of only two albums and Jay-Z vamping his whole style.

_________________

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

CMcMurtry
Member since Nov 28th 2002
17053 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 09:42 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
6. "As well..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

>If you're from Brooklyn, I guess I understand. But Im from
>Harlem and I dont elevate Big L as an all time rap god

Big L's career isn't even in the same universe as Biggie's, so the comparison isn't fair. I'd hope you don't think Big L was a all time rap god, same borough or not. Same way I'd hope people from Queens don't say Freaky Tah was a legend.

No diss, I fuck with his music, but he didn't touch the game 1/10th as much as Big, nor did he make music as timeless or impactful. His first album is cool, but it's not fuckin with either Biggie album. Not even close.

___________________________
OL' DIRTY BASTARD on himself:
"I may curse, I may have a bad mouth, whatever whatever. I'm not that bad, yaknow'mean. Bad to y'all, I dunno how y'all... I don't give a fuck. Um, I'm a good person at heart, for real and shit.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
T Reynolds
Member since Apr 16th 2007
41489 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 09:53 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
9. "*poses in front of Big L mural with hands in praying position*"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

http://57thave.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/Lord-Nez-Big-L-mural-500x375.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_PuB0XNbuX6A/Sp1M9v0fzrI/AAAAAAAAAR8/SvmCBv7iNIc/s400/IMG_6320.JPG

Big L was from DITC and one of the nicest spitters of that time as witnessed in countless freestyles

his rep was bigger than his recorded body of music

he embodied new york shit at one point in time much like biggie did

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
CMcMurtry
Member since Nov 28th 2002
17053 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 09:58 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
11. "LOL I shouldn't have said anything"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

Cuz now I gotta debate why Big L isn't in that class as if I don't like the guy's music, and I do.

But I just don't think his impact was as significant as Biggie. Maybe in NY, I dunno. I can't and won't speak on that, I'm not from there. But hip hop is bigger than the five boroughs.

___________________________
OL' DIRTY BASTARD on himself:
"I may curse, I may have a bad mouth, whatever whatever. I'm not that bad, yaknow'mean. Bad to y'all, I dunno how y'all... I don't give a fuck. Um, I'm a good person at heart, for real and shit.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
guru0509
Charter member
42048 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 10:25 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
13. "yea, your Freaky Tah analogy was terrible lol"
In response to Reply # 11


  

          


_______________________________
Trouble/Don Cannon -Green Light
Evidence - Cats & Dogs
Phonte - Charity Starts At Home


  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
howardlloyd
Member since Jan 18th 2007
2647 posts
Fri Sep-30-11 07:22 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
102. "everyone who dies gets exaggerated"
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

and thats not to downplay their talent or phenomenal records but...

big
big l
big pun
tupac

etc etc etc

dying young just helps.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Guinness
Charter member
26270 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 11:55 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
27. "c'mon."
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

big l was respected as a dope rapper, but there's no comparison to biggie. the guy didn't even have a record deal and was putting out vinyl independently on flamboyant shortly before his death. he was basically the first mixtape rapper.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
T Reynolds
Member since Apr 16th 2007
41489 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 11:57 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
29. "If Big L hadn't died Biggie wouldn't have been King of NY. "
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

And if Biggie hadn't died Hov woulda never been King of NY

Simple math, 'tard

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
CMcMurtry
Member since Nov 28th 2002
17053 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 11:59 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
30. "Huh?"
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

Biggie died before Big L. How did Big L dying help make Biggie the King of NY?

___________________________
OL' DIRTY BASTARD on himself:
"I may curse, I may have a bad mouth, whatever whatever. I'm not that bad, yaknow'mean. Bad to y'all, I dunno how y'all... I don't give a fuck. Um, I'm a good person at heart, for real and shit.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
T Reynolds
Member since Apr 16th 2007
41489 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 12:02 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
33. "i donno dude"
In response to Reply # 30
Thu Sep-29-11 12:03 PM by T Reynolds

  

          

simple math, though

mase was definitely involved

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                        
Guinness
Charter member
26270 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 12:06 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
36. "i blame cardan."
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                            
T Reynolds
Member since Apr 16th 2007
41489 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 12:23 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
47. "lol pierre lol"
In response to Reply # 36


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                
clever79
Charter member
3801 posts
Fri Sep-30-11 09:55 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
122. "But what was Huddy Combs' involvement? "
In response to Reply # 47


  

          

.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Teknontheou
Charter member
32223 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 09:47 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
8. "Canibus started that."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

In his response to LL. I'm under the impression that hardly anyone under the age of maybe 25 even cares about that.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Ishwip
Member since Jun 10th 2005
19833 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 10:05 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
12. "I'm from Virginia and used to say that......."
In response to Reply # 0


          

I'm not mad at anybody who still considers him the greatest, but I don't feel that way anymore.
__
I don't like the beat anymore because its just a loop. ALC didn't FLIP IT ENOUGH!

Flip it enough? Flip these. Flip off. Go flip some f*cking burgers.(c)Kno

Allied State of the National Electric Beat Treaty Organization (NEBTO)

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Birdzeye
Member since Feb 29th 2008
408 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 11:10 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
15. "RE: Is the "Biggie is the greatest ever" notion a Brooklyn* thing only?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I consider biggie as the best 'all rounder' in that the dude was capable of everything from an mc perspective to a high level!

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
True
Member since Jan 29th 2008
680 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 12:01 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
31. "RE: Is the "Biggie is the greatest ever" notion a Brooklyn* thing only?"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

>I consider biggie as the best 'all rounder' in that the dude
>was capable of everything from an mc perspective to a high
>level!
>
>

I would tell young mcs if you want to study someone's stage show, stay away from Biggie, he wasn't that great. If the young mc is heavy set, I would tell him to study Chubb Rock or Heavy D's stage show, lol.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

True
Member since Jan 29th 2008
680 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 11:39 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
16. "RE: Is the "Biggie is the greatest ever" notion a Brooklyn* thing only?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

>*Puffy's opinion notwithstanding
>
>and is it only due to his untimely passing?
>
>classic debut, a 75% great double album, a rack of guest
>appearances and remixes and he's the greatest rapper of all
>time?
>
>If you're from Brooklyn, I guess I understand. But Im from
>Harlem and I dont elevate Big L as an all time rap god
>
>If you're not from Brooklyn, make your case for Big being the
>G.O.A.T

can't he's nowhere near that status, not even close. How is he the greatest when when he was alive Wu Tang and Death Row was running shit? I just don't get it. Hell yeah his death saved his legacy cause the direction he was going I don't see him lasting long for 13 albums like LL Cool J

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
sweeneykovar
Member since Oct 26th 2004
10072 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 11:50 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
24. "you'd want Biggie to make an Exit 13? : / "
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
True
Member since Jan 29th 2008
680 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 12:02 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
32. "RE: you'd want Biggie to make an Exit 13? : / "
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

>

If Biggie made Exit 13 everyone would say it's a classic, now you understand where I'm coming from with Biggie

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
sweeneykovar
Member since Oct 26th 2004
10072 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 08:26 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
83. "no I dont. Biggie backed up his claims with great music. "
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

he didnt make much, but he also died before 27.

Biggie will forever be a legend in rap to me.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

sweeneykovar
Member since Oct 26th 2004
10072 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 11:46 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
18. "people are still unsuccessfully trying to imitate Biggie. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

he has set such a standard for MCing that I think it is arguable that no one has eclipsed it completely yet.

so while the no. 1 spot is always a debate, Biggie definitely has the credentials to be in that conversation, regardless if you're from New Orleans, Mexico City or Brooklyn .

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
True
Member since Jan 29th 2008
680 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 12:06 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
35. "RE: people are still unsuccessfully trying to imitate Biggie. "
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

>he has set such a standard for MCing that I think it is
>arguable that no one has eclipsed it completely yet.
>
>so while the no. 1 spot is always a debate, Biggie definitely
>has the credentials to be in that conversation, regardless if
>you're from New Orleans, Mexico City or Brooklyn .

now you make another great point. While everyone from Em, Nas, Keith Murray, Mystikal, Fat Joe, Pac and COUNTLESS others say how LL was they favorite mc at one time or another, all these wack mcs out now, ask them who they fav was that they studied and tried to emulate. You hear names like Biggie Jay Z and 50, I think that says something, what about you? Basically if you take Big out of the equation, hip hop is not hurting to me, in fact it's in a better position. Now take away a Chuck D, Rakim, KRS, LL, Nas, Wu Tang............hip hop misses out on a lot. They type of rapper Big was come and go often, that's just my opinion. I was impressed by Ready to Die but didn't pay too much to Big (according to billboard many others didn't either) cause like I said earlier Death Row and Wu Tang was running shit while he was alive

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
sweeneykovar
Member since Oct 26th 2004
10072 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 08:30 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
86. "RE: people are still unsuccessfully trying to imitate Biggie. "
In response to Reply # 35


  

          

>>he has set such a standard for MCing that I think it is
>>arguable that no one has eclipsed it completely yet.
>>
>>so while the no. 1 spot is always a debate, Biggie
>definitely
>>has the credentials to be in that conversation, regardless
>if
>>you're from New Orleans, Mexico City or Brooklyn .
>
>now you make another great point. While everyone from Em, Nas,
>Keith Murray, Mystikal, Fat Joe, Pac and COUNTLESS others say
>how LL was they favorite mc at one time or another, all these
>wack mcs out now, ask them who they fav was that they studied
>and tried to emulate. You hear names like Biggie Jay Z and 50,
>I think that says something, what about you? Basically if you
>take Big out of the equation, hip hop is not hurting to me, in
>fact it's in a better position.

really? its in a better position without his storytelling, charisma, lyricism, effortless flow and cinematic voice. ok.


Now take away a Chuck D,
>Rakim, KRS, LL, Nas, Wu Tang............hip hop misses out on
>a lot.

that is completely subjective even though you have potentially strong arguments with many of those.


They type of rapper Big was come and go often, that's
>just my opinion.

then why has someone yet to do what he did better?


I was impressed by Ready to Die but didn't
>pay too much to Big (according to billboard many others didn't
>either) cause like I said earlier Death Row and Wu Tang was
>running shit while he was alive



I dont know what else to say to you besides, no.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
42257 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 12:03 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
34. "I'd say right after he died, it was an East Coast thing"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Went to school in Philly with a lot of cats from thoroughout the East Coast, and they certainly believed Biggie was the greatest ever.

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Artful Dodger
Member since Nov 20th 2009
8361 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 12:08 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
39. "Puff was the one to start that nonsense."
In response to Reply # 0


          

and his untimely death only added to it.

considering he was the yin to pac's yang and pac also was elevated to infamy the year before - it worked. It's not the truth however, I mean how would anyone in hiphop decide the greatest ever... too much to choose from.

yes people latched on...

but people are stupid.

They will follow anything.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
CMcMurtry
Member since Nov 28th 2002
17053 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 12:35 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
50. "Is it nonsense though?"
In response to Reply # 39


  

          

Let's say you don't think he's the GOAT. Do you not even think he belongs in the conversation?

___________________________
OL' DIRTY BASTARD on himself:
"I may curse, I may have a bad mouth, whatever whatever. I'm not that bad, yaknow'mean. Bad to y'all, I dunno how y'all... I don't give a fuck. Um, I'm a good person at heart, for real and shit.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Artful Dodger
Member since Nov 20th 2009
8361 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 01:33 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
56. "It's ridiculous cause he had two albums. I mean how fair is that?"
In response to Reply # 50


          

He wasn't the first MC to not write anything down.. many MC's did that. Puff was just a master of hype and promotion.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
CMcMurtry
Member since Nov 28th 2002
17053 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 03:46 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
69. "I don't recall anyone referencing his lack of writing lyrics down"
In response to Reply # 56


  

          

I don't care if he wrote them out on a Light Brite. Shit was nice as fuck.

And again, in a lot of people's eyes, mine included, two albums was all he needed, because he accomplished more in those two albums than most artists are able to their entire careers.

___________________________
OL' DIRTY BASTARD on himself:
"I may curse, I may have a bad mouth, whatever whatever. I'm not that bad, yaknow'mean. Bad to y'all, I dunno how y'all... I don't give a fuck. Um, I'm a good person at heart, for real and shit.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

mwasi kitoko
Member since Jul 15th 2007
60768 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 12:24 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
48. "I'm almost 100%positive that I never heard that sentiment until he died"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

www.royallegacy.org
http://therapfest.com/up-next-artists/

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Artful Dodger
Member since Nov 20th 2009
8361 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 12:27 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
49. "Yep and it came out of the mouth of Puffy and Puffy only."
In response to Reply # 48


          

Yet everyone was so vulnerable as a sign of respect they ran with it.
where it went from there... well...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
130079 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 01:38 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
58. "ditto."
In response to Reply # 48


  

          

I think had he lived we'd be talking about him like many do Jigga today. Biggie really had a flair for sounding gravy on everything he recorded.

prollem is he never really got to live to reap the benefit

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
mwasi kitoko
Member since Jul 15th 2007
60768 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 04:17 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
79. "word like I'm sure he had mad fans who thought he was the best "
In response to Reply # 58


  

          

when he was alive but it definitely wasnt the general consensus

www.royallegacy.org
http://therapfest.com/up-next-artists/

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Dj Joey Joe
Member since Sep 01st 2007
13331 posts
Fri Sep-30-11 01:44 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
96. "I Agree, Many Liked Him But Not On The Level They Do Now"
In response to Reply # 48


  

          

Before Notorious B.I.G. died people were hyped about every song he put out or guest appeared on but calling him the greatest rapper to ever live was far from their minds; but afterwards this saying spread like wildfire and I couldn't believe people were saying this; but that's the way people basically let events and emotion get into the whole idea of what makes a rapper the greatest...death...really?


https://DjJoeyJoe.bandcamp.com/album/Emerald-Dust

---------
"We in here talking about later career Prince records
& your fool ass is cruising around in a time machine
trying to collect props for a couple of sociopathic degenerates" - s.blak

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Soulbrotha
Member since Feb 18th 2004
7401 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 12:50 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
51. "It's not a BK thing..I once felt that way too that he was at least"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

in the conversation but I still hold Ra, KRS, BDK in that 1 spot which rotates from time to time depending on my mood lol.

However, I think by now Jay has surpassed Big as far as influence and impact right now. I know its weird saying it but if we're being honest its true. However Big edges Jay just because Big was KONY first and Jay took (literally) what Big was doing and ran with it.

In this same vein though of GOAT there are ppl who feel Pac is the GOAT. So its not far fetched for ppl to think Big is the GOAT.

"Do to others what you would others have done unto you." - The Lord Jesus Christ

SB Video: http://www.youtube.com/soulbrothavideo
SB tweet:www.twitter.com/soulb

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
16316 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 01:21 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
53. "i f you're over 25 and BIG isn't in your top 10, the side eye you get"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

and no MC from a group should be in anyone's top 15 IMO. the top 15 is for those that held albums down for dolo with a few guest spots here and there.

01. Nas
02. Jay-Z
03. Rakim
04. KRS-One
05. Slick Rick
06. Kool G Rap
07. LL Cool J
08. Ice Cube
09. BIG
10. 2Pac
11. Scarface
12. BDK
13. Redman
14. Pharaohe Monch
15. Chuck D
16. Andre 3000
17. Posdnuos
18. Dave (Trugoy)
19. Black Thought
20. Common

****************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

"Dude just seems like he's been chosen for some reason. Maybe he did a backspin for Oprah or something." micMajestic

http://www.discogs.com/user/buhloone

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Artful Dodger
Member since Nov 20th 2009
8361 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 01:49 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
60. "Sorry man but big aint coming before BDK, BT, or Redman."
In response to Reply # 53


          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

T Reynolds
Member since Apr 16th 2007
41489 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 01:29 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
54. "Current King of NY makes a song about Former King of NY:"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fr5fx4dLREw

That's right Smoke DZA holds the crown right now

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Guinness
Charter member
26270 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 01:33 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
55. "when did papoose pass it off?"
In response to Reply # 54


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
CMcMurtry
Member since Nov 28th 2002
17053 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 01:34 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
57. "As an aside, has anyone from Wu stepped to Smoke DZA about his name?"
In response to Reply # 54


  

          

Did he get their OK?

I'm surprised a crew as notoriously stingy about biting hasn't said one word about this. Perhaps he's not on their radar yet.

___________________________
OL' DIRTY BASTARD on himself:
"I may curse, I may have a bad mouth, whatever whatever. I'm not that bad, yaknow'mean. Bad to y'all, I dunno how y'all... I don't give a fuck. Um, I'm a good person at heart, for real and shit.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
justin_scott
Charter member
19734 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 11:28 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
92. "i believe dza is slang for weed or something"
In response to Reply # 57


          

So its not actually biting rza or gza. It just looks like it

************************************************************

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

mr_graff
Member since Jan 25th 2006
4147 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 01:48 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
59. "I think he had the GOAT flow but as far overall package, nah."
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

kwez
Member since Aug 10th 2003
11486 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 03:19 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
61. "He had two albums, two."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Add to the fact that people simply REFUSE to believe that LAD had a ton of filler on it and the whole Biggie is the greatest meme is puzzling.

I can't think of any other activity where this would fly.

Like if a dude won 2 NBA titles and then died, or an actor winning two oscars etc, there are no grounds for calling that person the greatest anything.

Objectively the answer has to be Jay-Z whether you hate him or not simply because he's done it all, repeatedly for the past 15 years as a RELEVANT artist.

Biggies death unfortunately robbed him of competing with that.

************************

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
CMcMurtry
Member since Nov 28th 2002
17053 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 03:23 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
62. "Uhhhh...."
In response to Reply # 61


  

          

>Add to the fact that people simply REFUSE to believe that LAD
>had a ton of filler on it and the whole Biggie is the greatest
>meme is puzzling.
>
>I can't think of any other activity where this would fly.

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/lists/100-greatest-guitarists-of-all-time-19691231/jimi-hendrix-19691231

P.S. I'm not interested in debating whether or not Hendrix is the best ever (nor do I care if he is or isn't, really). Just pointing out that this kind of thinking exists elsewhere.

___________________________
OL' DIRTY BASTARD on himself:
"I may curse, I may have a bad mouth, whatever whatever. I'm not that bad, yaknow'mean. Bad to y'all, I dunno how y'all... I don't give a fuck. Um, I'm a good person at heart, for real and shit.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
kwez
Member since Aug 10th 2003
11486 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 03:34 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
64. "Hendrix was crowned by his peers though"
In response to Reply # 62


  

          

Biggie, surprisingly really wasn't.

That holds an insane amount of weight in my book.

Jay-Z and Nas are routinely brought up by the likes of KRS, Chuck-D, DOC etc.

There's a reason for that.

************************

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
CMcMurtry
Member since Nov 28th 2002
17053 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 03:40 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
66. "You're saying B.I.G. wasn't? C'mon kwez"
In response to Reply # 64


  

          

Everyone from that era wanted to work with him.

Even the people who "hated" on him back in the day (his competitors: Nas, Rae, Jeru etc.) now admit he was nice as fuck. The only ones I haven't seen get off their stance was Boot Camp, and for all I know, they might've, I just haven't seen it.

Big Daddy Kane has talked about how his jaw hit the floor when Mister Cee first played him some Biggie.

Kool Moe Dee raves about him in that book he put out ranking rappers.

___________________________
OL' DIRTY BASTARD on himself:
"I may curse, I may have a bad mouth, whatever whatever. I'm not that bad, yaknow'mean. Bad to y'all, I dunno how y'all... I don't give a fuck. Um, I'm a good person at heart, for real and shit.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
kwez
Member since Aug 10th 2003
11486 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 03:45 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
68. "Biggie was nice as fuck no doubt"
In response to Reply # 66


  

          

and had he not died he may have gone on to be the greatest ever.

But lets keep it real, his achievements are what exactly?

Two great albums.

You know how many emcees have at least two great albums?

I love Big, but he died too soon to be in the running. Pac has more of a claim to that title than Big ever will.

************************

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
CMcMurtry
Member since Nov 28th 2002
17053 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 03:47 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
71. "You're right. On that level, how many do?"
In response to Reply # 68


  

          

Maybe half a dozen, at best. And they also have some wackness in there. Big was 2/2. Throw in all the guest verses he kilt.

___________________________
OL' DIRTY BASTARD on himself:
"I may curse, I may have a bad mouth, whatever whatever. I'm not that bad, yaknow'mean. Bad to y'all, I dunno how y'all... I don't give a fuck. Um, I'm a good person at heart, for real and shit.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                        
kwez
Member since Aug 10th 2003
11486 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 03:55 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
74. "Nope, there are tons of emcees with at least 2 great albums"
In response to Reply # 71


  

          

Outkast
NWA
Ice Cube
Nas
Jay-Z
EPMD
Rakim
Big Daddy Kane
Tupac
Mobb Deep
LL Cool J
Dr Dre
DMX
Common
Redman
Ghostface
Rae
Wu-Tang
...

I mean, half a dozen? I could go on for days.

************************

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                            
CMcMurtry
Member since Nov 28th 2002
17053 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 04:04 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
77. "Let's break these down one by one, shall we?"
In response to Reply # 74


  

          

>Outkast

We're talking group vs. solo act, so it's a tough comparison. Andre's in the discussion though, and if someone says he's #1, I don't call them crazy.

>NWA

Ehhhhhh. I dunno if the sophmore is great.

>Ice Cube

Yup.

>Nas

Yup.

>Jay-Z

No, but that's me. I do think Jay's in the conversation.

>EPMD

They have great albums, but I never see either dude reference as a GOAT. And their prime was before my time, so I'm not a fair judge perhaps.

>Rakim

Yup.

>Big Daddy Kane

Yup.

>Tupac

Yup.

>Mobb Deep

Yes, but again, the whole group vs. solo. P's a personal favorite but I'd have a hard time top 10ing dude.

>LL Cool J

Ehhhh.

>Dr Dre

Album wise, sure.

>DMX

LOL fuck outta here. Those albums were great at the time, but they don't hold up well AT ALL. I like X though. He's an important hip hop figure.

>Common

Hmmm.

>Redman

Yup.

>Ghostface

On the fence.

>Rae

Two? No. Too soon to say about OB4CL2.

>Wu-Tang

Not a fair comparison, IMO.

>I mean, half a dozen? I could go on for days.

Half dozen may have been a misstatement. But it's not like it's 20 either. Not at the level of those two albums.

Anyway, my beef with your stance, and many others, isn't that you don't think Biggie is the best. There is no one right answer to the question of who the greatest rapper is. There are about 10 that I'll accept.

But I take issue with people who suggest Biggie isn't in the conversation. That those of us who feel that way are out to lunch or drinking some media or Sean Combs Kool-Aid. Dude was ILL and changed rap music forever.

___________________________
OL' DIRTY BASTARD on himself:
"I may curse, I may have a bad mouth, whatever whatever. I'm not that bad, yaknow'mean. Bad to y'all, I dunno how y'all... I don't give a fuck. Um, I'm a good person at heart, for real and shit.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                
justin_scott
Charter member
19734 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 11:33 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
93. "ll cool j has 3-4 great albums"
In response to Reply # 77


          

Radio and mama said knock you out are unquestionably great. Id add mr smith too.

************************************************************

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                
mrliberfarb
Member since Jan 23rd 2008
1022 posts
Tue Oct-04-11 05:37 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
138. "RE: Let's break these down one by one, shall we?"
In response to Reply # 77


  

          


>>Ghostface
>
>On the fence.
>


WHAT?!?!?!?!

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                        
Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
16316 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 05:38 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
81. "Big Daddy Kane has two great albums?"
In response to Reply # 71


  

          

he's overrated as hell to me. i don't get why he gets a pass for his catalog. most people have him in their top 5.

****************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

"Dude just seems like he's been chosen for some reason. Maybe he did a backspin for Oprah or something." micMajestic

http://www.discogs.com/user/buhloone

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
CMcMurtry
Member since Nov 28th 2002
17053 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 03:26 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
63. "And..."
In response to Reply # 61


  

          

>Objectively the answer has to be Jay-Z whether you hate him or
>not simply because he's done it all, repeatedly for the past
>15 years as a RELEVANT artist.

If we're talking album filler, Jay-Z's career is ripe with it.

LAD is better than any Jay-Z album, IMO.

___________________________
OL' DIRTY BASTARD on himself:
"I may curse, I may have a bad mouth, whatever whatever. I'm not that bad, yaknow'mean. Bad to y'all, I dunno how y'all... I don't give a fuck. Um, I'm a good person at heart, for real and shit.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
kwez
Member since Aug 10th 2003
11486 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 03:40 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
65. "Maybe so..."
In response to Reply # 63


  

          

But Jay-Z's career reached greater heights than Biggie's did.

Biggie died.

That's unfortunate, but facts is facts.

And BP, RD and AG are in my opinion better albums than LAD. But thats a story for another day.

************************

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
CMcMurtry
Member since Nov 28th 2002
17053 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 03:44 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
67. "In contrast, Jay-Z also has more shit sticking to him"
In response to Reply # 65


  

          

How many wack Biggie songs are there? Fuck, for that matter, wack verses?

___________________________
OL' DIRTY BASTARD on himself:
"I may curse, I may have a bad mouth, whatever whatever. I'm not that bad, yaknow'mean. Bad to y'all, I dunno how y'all... I don't give a fuck. Um, I'm a good person at heart, for real and shit.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
kwez
Member since Aug 10th 2003
11486 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 03:47 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
70. "You know why? Two albums."
In response to Reply # 67


  

          

Jay-Z has an order of magnitude more songs than Biggie has. So it's only logical that Jay will have many, many more wack songs.

So does Nas.

So does Rakim.

It's the law of averages.

************************

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
CMcMurtry
Member since Nov 28th 2002
17053 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 03:49 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
72. "So if you make 20 songs, and 18 are nice"
In response to Reply # 70


  

          

And I make 60 songs, and 30 are nice, then we're equal or you're better? Shouldn't you be held in higher esteem because your batting average sons the fuck out of mine?

___________________________
OL' DIRTY BASTARD on himself:
"I may curse, I may have a bad mouth, whatever whatever. I'm not that bad, yaknow'mean. Bad to y'all, I dunno how y'all... I don't give a fuck. Um, I'm a good person at heart, for real and shit.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                        
kwez
Member since Aug 10th 2003
11486 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 03:51 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
73. "Hell naw lol"
In response to Reply # 72


  

          

Come on thats retarded. Thats not the way statistics work, sorry.

By that logic, I could drop a hot single and dip. And you'd be fine calling me the greatest right? Coz my "batting average" is ridiculous at that point right?

No.

************************

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                            
CMcMurtry
Member since Nov 28th 2002
17053 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 03:55 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
75. "We ain't talkin a one and done deal though, are we?"
In response to Reply # 73


  

          

How many songs are on those two albums combined? 40? (yes, I'm too lazy to look lol)

He was all over the Junior M.A.F.I.A. album. He was guest versing his ass off for his entire career.

Let's not act as if we got a six track EP from dude.

___________________________
OL' DIRTY BASTARD on himself:
"I may curse, I may have a bad mouth, whatever whatever. I'm not that bad, yaknow'mean. Bad to y'all, I dunno how y'all... I don't give a fuck. Um, I'm a good person at heart, for real and shit.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                
kwez
Member since Aug 10th 2003
11486 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 04:04 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
76. "The facts are, by sheer volume of great songs Jay wins"
In response to Reply # 75


  

          

Thats what happens when you've made that many albums over that period of time.

You can throw in guest verses, Jay wins there too because again, he's been on a ton more.

His achievements are basically insurmountable by Big coz Big died.

And I know I'm harping on Jay here but you could replace Jay with Nas and Nas' achievments will still shit on Biggies.

He died man.

End of.

************************

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

-DJ R-Tistic-
Member since Nov 06th 2008
51976 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 04:13 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
78. "What I think is worse is Lauryn Hill = Best female rapper ever"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

On a verse for verse, technical, "damn she said _______" kind of level, she's probably Top 3 and arguable. But not only did she only have ONE solo album, but that was driven by her singing on it...so I might say it's the best album made by a female rapper, but probably not even the "best female Rap album" because it was half singing.

------------------------------

50+ FREE Mixes on www.DJR-Tistic.com!

Twitter and Instagram - @DJ_RTistic

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
CMcMurtry
Member since Nov 28th 2002
17053 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 07:57 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
82. "So if not her, who?"
In response to Reply # 78


  

          

___________________________
OL' DIRTY BASTARD on himself:
"I may curse, I may have a bad mouth, whatever whatever. I'm not that bad, yaknow'mean. Bad to y'all, I dunno how y'all... I don't give a fuck. Um, I'm a good person at heart, for real and shit.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
justin_scott
Charter member
19734 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 11:26 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
91. "mc lyte and latifah are #1 and #2 in my book"
In response to Reply # 82


          

Lauryn #3

************************************************************

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
40760 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 11:54 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
95. "sounds like you need a new book. "
In response to Reply # 91


  

          

one with lauren on the goddamned cover.

*jokes*

it's not that serious, but i just don't see how those two are nicer than lauren on any level.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
-DJ R-Tistic-
Member since Nov 06th 2008
51976 posts
Fri Sep-30-11 06:27 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
97. "I mean....it's the whole Bo Jackson vs. [insert RB] argument"
In response to Reply # 95


  

          

Bo's active years were probably greater than any RB in history, and he still leads the all time list in yards per carry. BUT....folks still see it like "he COULD HAVE been the greatest" because he didn't have enough time to continue doing what he did.

So I see Lauryn the exact same way. Verse for verse? Quotes? Flow and delivery when focused back then? Yeah, we were listening to the best female raps ever. But judging her as an artist and on her entire catalog and output? Eh...it takes more than just one album to be seen as "the GREAAAATEST" even if that one album is better than everybody else's catalog. Plus, as I said, it was driven by the singing.

>one with lauren on the goddamned cover.
>
>*jokes*
>
>it's not that serious, but i just don't see how those two are
>nicer than lauren on any level.

------------------------------

50+ FREE Mixes on www.DJR-Tistic.com!

Twitter and Instagram - @DJ_RTistic

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
CMcMurtry
Member since Nov 28th 2002
17053 posts
Fri Sep-30-11 08:59 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
104. "The problem with those girls is the allegation they didn't write..."
In response to Reply # 91
Fri Sep-30-11 09:00 AM by CMcMurtry

  

          

all their rhymes.

Which, I know, is opening a whole new can of worms...

___________________________
OL' DIRTY BASTARD on himself:
"I may curse, I may have a bad mouth, whatever whatever. I'm not that bad, yaknow'mean. Bad to y'all, I dunno how y'all... I don't give a fuck. Um, I'm a good person at heart, for real and shit.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
Guinness
Charter member
26270 posts
Fri Sep-30-11 09:06 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
105. "not really allegation - it's fact."
In response to Reply # 104


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
-DJ R-Tistic-
Member since Nov 06th 2008
51976 posts
Fri Sep-30-11 03:21 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
118. "Wait, so Lyte and Latifah didn't write their own? "
In response to Reply # 105


  

          

------------------------------

50+ FREE Mixes on www.DJR-Tistic.com!

Twitter and Instagram - @DJ_RTistic

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                        
CMcMurtry
Member since Nov 28th 2002
17053 posts
Fri Sep-30-11 03:47 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
119. "That's the word"
In response to Reply # 118


  

          

___________________________
OL' DIRTY BASTARD on himself:
"I may curse, I may have a bad mouth, whatever whatever. I'm not that bad, yaknow'mean. Bad to y'all, I dunno how y'all... I don't give a fuck. Um, I'm a good person at heart, for real and shit.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
justin_scott
Charter member
19734 posts
Wed Oct-05-11 05:28 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
142. "what songs though?...allegations dont mean shit to me"
In response to Reply # 104


          

lyte says she wrote everything except like one song or so, and i've never heard anything about latifah NOT writing her stuff. until i see proof... esp with lyte since she wasn't just dope on her first 2-3 albums, then nothing (like latifah). "bad as i wanna b" is her 5th album, 4th dope album imho.

************************************************************

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Anonymous
Charter member
21961 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 09:51 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
89. "I was actually talking to my co-worker about that"
In response to Reply # 78


  

          

He was saying Lauryn wasn't the best female MC ever and I basically told him;

technically skilled MC, she is without a doubt the best.

but there are other female MCs like MC Lyte that I can understand people naming ahead of her because of her small catalogue.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
-DJ R-Tistic-
Member since Nov 06th 2008
51976 posts
Fri Sep-30-11 06:29 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
98. "Yeah for sure. And I mean, female rappers obviously aren't near"
In response to Reply # 89


  

          

male rappers in the same way that R&B singers are close to being equal on both genders. But it's unfair to all the legendary female rappers, even Latifah, who put out waaaaaaay more material, and classic material. I'd say Lauryn's better than Da Brat, but even Brat had way more material and classic RAP songs.

------------------------------

50+ FREE Mixes on www.DJR-Tistic.com!

Twitter and Instagram - @DJ_RTistic

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

True
Member since Jan 29th 2008
680 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 04:18 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
80. "RE: Is the "Biggie is the greatest ever" notion a Brooklyn* thing only?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Is Biggie overrated? Let's check what Biggie said in a song, "You're nobody till somebody kills you" yup, that sums it all up for him, you can close the thread now
PEACE

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

icecold21
Member since Jan 18th 2008
8431 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 08:35 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
87. "He's not in my top 5"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

2 albums ain't enough, I think people just bought into the hype and crowned his ass.

Maybe with more time, he could've been the GOAT, but there are too many other deserving emcees for him to be it.

_________________________________________

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Actuals
Member since May 15th 2009
434 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 10:09 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
90. "Canibus was the first I heard say it on the LL diss"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I'm from Brooklyn and nobody was talking that G.O.A.T. shit until after he passed, and nobody considered Pac to be the greatest either.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
14423 posts
Fri Sep-30-11 08:56 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
103. "He was a Lyricist that had commercial appeal"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

BIG was one of the first, I say one of for arguments sake, he's the first that I can think of...one of the first lyricists that was able to capture the mainstream consumers

He could drop a track like Unbelievable for hip-hop heads, turn around and drop Juicy, One More Chance, for the radio, turn around and drop Gimme The Loot, for the hardcore heads, drop BIG Poppa for the Ladies, etc...

rinse, wash, repeat on the 2nd album

and I never got the feeling like he was dumbing it ALL the way down to do it

his early demise also never gave him an opportunity to decline, both of his albums were classics

when you list acts like
Kane
KRS
Rakim

these guys were lyricists first, but never had success in the mainstream, i.e. does your momma know who they are?

and, we saw their decline towards the end of their careers

that's why BIG is considered the GOAT

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
soulfunk
Charter member
8891 posts
Fri Sep-30-11 09:36 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
106. "^^^^^^^^^^"
In response to Reply # 103


  

          

>and I never got the feeling like he was dumbing it ALL the way
>down to do it

Exactly - Big was spittin even on his club bangers. The topic wouldn't be as hardcore, and the beat would be more mainstream, but he never simplified his flow just to make it more accessable. And people at the club would STILL (and still do today) recite entire Biggie verses along with the song.

I think Jay-Z managed to do that on a few of his biggest hits (Big Pimpin, H to the Izzo, Give it to Me, etc.) but on others his flow is definitely dumbed down. I don't think anyone else is anywhere close to Biggie in that category.

I also don't think Big gets enough credit for his stories. I mean if you break down the lyrics in Niggas Bleed or Somebodies Gotta Die the way he's able to progress the plot with foreshadowing and other characters is just crazy...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
130079 posts
Fri Sep-30-11 12:10 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
112. "in the time where he dropped I would agree"
In response to Reply # 103


  

          

he and Snoop IMO are the only two who really strike me as lyricists that managed to sell themselves without selling out

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
14423 posts
Fri Sep-30-11 12:21 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
114. "I tried to stay away from Jay and Snoop"
In response to Reply # 112


  

          

Snoop, a lyricist, I mean you could make the argument I guess, but the problem is there were alot of MCs in the West that I would say were way more lyrical than Snoop, compared to BIG who I could see holding his own against any MC in regards to lyrics...

Jay had a moment there where he could have made a case, but some of his albums just don't hold up to being classics. If he had walked away after the Black album I think he would have had a stronger argument for GOAT, but now, nah

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
-DJ R-Tistic-
Member since Nov 06th 2008
51976 posts
Mon Oct-03-11 06:39 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
125. "I think it's unfair to judge Jay like that though"
In response to Reply # 114


  

          

It's that whole Jordan on the Wizards shit that everybody predicted would happen. Same with Ice Cube...many of us feel that if he had died or just retired in 94-96, he would have been seen as a straight legend and nothing near a joke...but folks count the "bad" albums against him and all other artists who decline.

------------------------------

50+ FREE Mixes on www.DJR-Tistic.com!

Twitter and Instagram - @DJ_RTistic

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
14423 posts
Tue Oct-04-11 08:43 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
136. "Well that's the way it is"
In response to Reply # 125
Tue Oct-04-11 09:20 AM by bentagain

  

          

In our culture, a lot of our icons died at an early age

Marilyn
James Dean
Jimmy Hendrix
etc...

It might not be fair, but that's the way it is
We didn't watch them get old and wrinkly
They will always be remembered at the height of their careers

Same with BIG
He didn't put out a handful of okay albums, and 2 classics
He put out 2 classics

If you cut Jay's career down to his best 2 albums I still don't think he'd be on BIG's level
Let's say Reasonable Doubt and The Black Album
and then nothing
no movies, no clothing line, no 40/40s, no record label, etc...
Just those 2 albums aren't enough, to me, to be called the GOAT
Jay has been able to do alot of things well, not great
and his career has benefitted from that ability
if we're talking strictly music
strictly MCing
hell no
but when you factor in all the other things he's been able to do
maybe
so, he's actually benefitted from having a lengthy career
because if his catalogue went Resonable Doubt, In My Lifetime
are we having this discussion
I think his career has even helped the way Reasonable Doubt is perceived now

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
cidolfas
Member since Nov 29th 2006
2139 posts
Fri Sep-30-11 01:35 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
116. ""and how to sell records like Snoop, oops" (c) Big"
In response to Reply # 112


  

          

_________________

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

mistermaxxx08
Member since Dec 31st 2010
16076 posts
Fri Sep-30-11 11:55 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
111. "you answer your question since its been 15 years since his passing"
In response to Reply # 0


          

and his impact is still felt.

vocally he did it all and was scary versatile his story telling game was as good as anybody period.

Movie was made about dude that alone says and speaks volumes.

dude was the Kunte Kinte of Bad Boy and all made coin off the Brother.

Puffy knew he struck gold with Biggie.

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

agentB
Member since Dec 14th 2007
1881 posts
Fri Sep-30-11 12:12 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
113. "I get a feeling listening to him rap that I never got from any other art..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

Still to this day.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Bombastic
Charter member
88860 posts
Fri Sep-30-11 03:53 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
120. "Big LOL on this failed analogy"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

>If you're from Brooklyn, I guess I understand. But Im from
>Harlem and I dont elevate Big L as an all time rap god
>
>If you're not from Brooklyn, make your case for Big being the
>G.O.A.T

www.somethinginthewudder.com

https://twitter.com/nostrabombus

https://www.facebook.com/matt.koelling.96

https://www.instagram.com/something_in_the_wudder/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-koelling-438a803?trk=hp-identity-name

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90058 posts
Fri Sep-30-11 07:51 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
121. "basically. even when he died i remember ppl still saying pac was"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

the best ever
i distinctly remember chicks at my high school commenting on how they cried when pac died but didn't really give a fuck when big died
granted these were females talking but imo LAD was geared HEAVILY toward chicks and the commercial market so it is what it is
he's prolly top 5 tho

~~~~~~

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Bombastic
Charter member
88860 posts
Fri Sep-30-11 10:24 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
123. "despite what chicks at your high school said because they thought"
In response to Reply # 121


  

          

Pac was a hot martyr, Pac's 'ascension' to being 'Best Rapper Ever' came long after Big was dead.

www.somethinginthewudder.com

https://twitter.com/nostrabombus

https://www.facebook.com/matt.koelling.96

https://www.instagram.com/something_in_the_wudder/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-koelling-438a803?trk=hp-identity-name

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90058 posts
Mon Oct-03-11 06:24 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
124. "had nothing to do with his looks. the point is they still liked pac more"
In response to Reply # 123
Mon Oct-03-11 06:26 PM by southphillyman

  

          

even tho biggies last album was basically a pop album
dudes were on pac too

~~~~~~

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

TRENDone
Charter member
15616 posts
Mon Oct-03-11 07:20 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
126. "notice how no-one bashes the "BIG's the greatest" arguement like Pac?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

smh

____________________________________________________________________

San Diego State's holy trinity of sports:
Kawhi Leonard
Marshall Faulk
Tony Gwynn (RIP)

#Aztec4Life

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Guinness
Charter member
26270 posts
Mon Oct-03-11 09:55 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
128. "wut?"
In response to Reply # 126


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
TRENDone
Charter member
15616 posts
Tue Oct-04-11 12:00 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
131. "BIG and Pac both have great songs"
In response to Reply # 128
Tue Oct-04-11 12:43 AM by TRENDone

  

          

lots of them. but generically speaking, i ALWAYS see hella people coming into Tupac posts taking shots at his legacy saying he was whack, most overrated of all-time, he's not that great of an MC, his legacy is blown out of proportion cuz of his death, people will clown on his fanbase, etc...but you won't see it so much with BIG.

Is it because he took the higher ground during the beef? maybe.

Did BIG exploded onto the scene and take hip-hop by storm? yes.

"one more chance" vs. "i get around?" it's a wash.

But i swear people act like Pac was a nobody before he did all eyez on me...which sold 10 mil, first double-album in hip-hop, hit after hit, recorded in 2 weeks, fresh outta jail. Even if you want to discount his death row days he still accomplished more in his (that would make it) 4 year career than most artists in hip-hop. some 2pac fans liked him even MORE before death row.

____________________________________________________________________

San Diego State's holy trinity of sports:
Kawhi Leonard
Marshall Faulk
Tony Gwynn (RIP)

#Aztec4Life

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Guinness
Charter member
26270 posts
Tue Oct-04-11 08:02 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
134. "hmm."
In response to Reply # 131


  

          

i'm still unsure why you would add this post to a thread full of people saying biggie was overrated.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90058 posts
Mon Oct-03-11 11:01 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
129. "west coast rap died with Pac unfortunately. east coast rap still had"
In response to Reply # 126
Mon Oct-03-11 11:02 PM by southphillyman

  

          

ppl like jay, puff,and the ruff ryders praying at the shrine of Biggie while producing hits and influencing public perception
ppl actually started believing biggie was rated higher than pac in the late 90s/early 2000s

~~~~~~

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
TRENDone
Charter member
15616 posts
Tue Oct-04-11 12:19 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
132. "RE: west coast rap died with Pac unfortunately. east coast rap still had"
In response to Reply # 129
Tue Oct-04-11 12:47 AM by TRENDone

  

          

>
>ppl actually started believing biggie was rated higher than
>pac in the late 90s/early 2000s
>

i can see why people would think that because i think artists and songs were judged by a different criteria compared to today. but looking at their careers now after all that's happened in hip-hop for better or worse, i don't see how people can really say BIG is the GOAT or even better than tupac. better lyricist, better first album, top 5 pac songs vs. top 5 BIG songs, i can see why people would argue that.

BIG's dope, no doubt. but not GOAT. CMC had a good arguement about BIG accomplishing alot in his short career, but he didn't accomplish more than Tupac. both died around the same age. BIG didn't even accomplish more in his short 2 year career (alive) what 2pac accomplished his first 2 (solo) years...

____________________________________________________________________

San Diego State's holy trinity of sports:
Kawhi Leonard
Marshall Faulk
Tony Gwynn (RIP)

#Aztec4Life

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
-DJ R-Tistic-
Member since Nov 06th 2008
51976 posts
Tue Oct-04-11 03:16 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
133. "But that there actually makes a case for Pac"
In response to Reply # 129


  

          

For one....most folks on the West Coast never held Pac as our #1 artist like how Jay has been for NY since like 2001 or even earlier. I won't say we saw Snoop as #1 since he only had Doggystyle up to Pac's death, but Cube was DEFINITELY higher than Pac was. So if the entire coast died with Pac, that shows that he had a MAJOR impact in his last 1-2 years in the game.

The East Coast was in a much better position in 96-97 than the West was...so with his death, it didn't stop their impact b/c they finally re-programmed their style to make hits, with Biggie being one of the catalysts.

With influence n all...I'd say Pac had more influence image wise, not just from a bandana and bald head, but from his depth and two sides (gangsta/thug vs political, conscious, aware)...while Biggie had an influence in how to make (East Coast) hits. I'd even say Pac had more influence with delivereeeee (see what I did there) while Big had more impact lyrically.

------------------------------

50+ FREE Mixes on www.DJR-Tistic.com!

Twitter and Instagram - @DJ_RTistic

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Guinness
Charter member
26270 posts
Tue Oct-04-11 08:35 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
135. "i don't mind people saying pac is GOAT."
In response to Reply # 133


  

          

while i don't agree, his people resonated with the masses, he was immensely influential and he embodied "realness" to many people.

personally, i don't think the music is there. to me, makaveli and me against the world are his best albums, and neither are spectacular (and i bought 2pacalypse the day it dropped, so i was checking for him since "brenda's got a baby" and "if my homie calls"). pac was the GOAT rap star in terms of merging real life and music, but people don't even remember or know most of the tracks off his first two albums. you can't say that about anyone else in the GOAT convo.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
Guinness
Charter member
26270 posts
Tue Oct-04-11 09:53 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
137. "whoops."
In response to Reply # 135


  

          

meant his "music" resonated with the masses.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

eddietauf
Member since Mar 15th 2004
2095 posts
Wed Oct-05-11 03:15 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
141. "As talented & impactful as he was, the catalog was 2 short"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

This notion has to be more of a "We Live In Brooklyn" sort of thing. Objectively looking at the situation I'm hard pressed to place him at #1 top of the charts.

THere is no doubt that his untimely passing set off (along with that of Tupac) a chain reaction that forever altered the landscape of hip hop music.

Consider for a moment the iconic artists that came in their wake and ask yourself could they have garnered the same shine with Biggie & Tupac on the scene beside them??

_______________________________________


"What's The Relevance Of Money Without Intelligence"

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

True
Member since Jan 29th 2008
680 posts
Wed Oct-12-11 03:28 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
143. "RE: Is the "Biggie is the greatest ever" notion a Brooklyn* thing only?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

The Greatest Ever had the greatest acceptance speech for a hip hop award on the BET Hip hop awards last night

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

ShinobiShaw
Charter member
48533 posts
Tue Oct-18-11 11:11 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
146. "Aesop Rock and El P are the best rappers ever"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


<------ Boho Model Madness Presents: Andy Allo

http://www.gifsoup.com/view3/2298233/andyallo2-o.gif

http://www.rareformnyc.com
http://djshinobishaw.tumblr.com/
http://twitter.com/DJShinobiShaw
PSN: ShinobiShaw

"Arm Leg Leg Arm How you doin?" (c) T510

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
cidolfas
Member since Nov 29th 2006
2139 posts
Wed Oct-19-11 12:02 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
147. "ASAP Rocky, maybe."
In response to Reply # 146


  

          

_________________

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

alexathens
Charter member
1453 posts
Mon Oct-24-11 02:46 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
148. "it's all bullshit"
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Oct-24-11 02:47 AM by alexathens

  

          

i just think it all comes down to the bullshit east vs west rap wars of the mid nineties. the argument dominated hip hop and people tended to take sides.. and as pac and biggie were the figureheads for each side of the beef it became which one of the two was better which became which one of the two was the goat. neither of them are, and if it wasn't for the media saturation of the two of them as rivals and their deaths they wouldn't have been elevated to these levels. very few have had their impact on the mtv/non hip hop heads interpretation of hip hop up until their deaths. after them sure many have, but before no one had, the whole beef thing brought more people into hip hop than anything else ever has. as far as true hip hop heads, who had been listening before it became front page news for the beef and shootings and bullshit, i don't think anyone heard either of them and thought they where game changers. great artists sure, great mcs sure, i mean i love both of them. but if it wasn't for all the beef i don't think either of them would be what they are today.

when it comes down to it i still hate what that generation brought to hip hop, the bling bling shiny suits commercial side of bad boy, the 'you're only real if you've shot someone/have been shot' of death row gangsta shit. you had two incredible mcs who for me despite the abundance of talent, helped to ruin hip hop.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Lobby The Lesson topic #2608374 Previous topic | Next topic
Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.25
Copyright © DCScripts.com