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Subject: "What really actually happened to Lauryn Hill?" Previous topic | Next topic
lightworks
Member since Feb 17th 2006
5475 posts
Thu May-21-20 06:07 PM

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"What really actually happened to Lauryn Hill?"


          

I am listening to Unplugged right now and, ya know, it is just so very unpolished and it has me thinking...

Man she really was on top of the world when Miseducation dropped and was so inspiring and awesome and then she took time off, started being late to many concerts, and thought knowing three chords on guitar and having a raspy voice was okay.

Was it really drugs? Was she actually crazy?

What really happened?

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
Didn't she fall out with the production team from the first one?
May 21st 2020
1
If by fall out you mean didn't credit any of them then yeah.
May 21st 2020
3
      LOL I've been meaning to break out my copy for a long time ...
May 21st 2020
6
           pretty much
May 21st 2020
8
           Yea I was 14 - and I thought she was untouchable as well.
May 21st 2020
9
                I need a break down in how it works...
May 22nd 2020
29
                     yeah, it was a big deal
May 22nd 2020
60
           I just checked the credits on Spotify...
May 21st 2020
12
           Ha yeah, there really is a line like that in the liner notes:
May 22nd 2020
27
she’s telling you in that album...
May 21st 2020
2
I’m saying..... it really ain’t no mystery.
May 21st 2020
5
I can see why nobody knows.
May 21st 2020
11
      She talked between the songs...
May 21st 2020
13
      I totally remember the famous line “fantasy is what people want...
May 22nd 2020
16
      Word
May 22nd 2020
18
           Word, all really fantastic points.
May 22nd 2020
25
                RE: Word, all really fantastic points.
May 22nd 2020
73
      I'm sure I heard it on the one time I listened.
May 22nd 2020
24
      then it’s hard to call her crazy...
May 22nd 2020
22
           I never called crazy. black women get called get called that
May 22nd 2020
45
Industry rule #4,080
May 21st 2020
4
Wyclef
May 21st 2020
7
she said she felt the spotlight was too much for her
May 21st 2020
10
that's her business.
May 21st 2020
14
LIke so, like that.
May 22nd 2020
15
:)
May 22nd 2020
80
dur-hur
May 22nd 2020
37
Lauryn Hill Got A Compound Of Musicians Working On Music All The Time
May 22nd 2020
17
Like I said....
May 22nd 2020
20
This isn't really that different from how a lot of fine art studios oper...
May 22nd 2020
76
      I think this is a very plausible and nuanced analysis
May 22nd 2020
81
      Really good and interesting points.
May 23rd 2020
97
6 kids
May 22nd 2020
19
this! only got 2 and will readily admit that we are "different" now..
May 22nd 2020
21
Seriously! Motherhood will break you
May 22nd 2020
30
      ALL OF THIS
May 22nd 2020
82
Same thing that happened to Andre...I ASSume
May 22nd 2020
23
he stayed professional though
May 22nd 2020
26
      lol. you should probably listen to unplugged...
May 22nd 2020
28
      IT DO NOT MATTER
May 22nd 2020
31
      then how can you talk about her n/m
May 22nd 2020
35
           I LITERALLY said "I can't speak to that side"
May 22nd 2020
38
      yeah, that unplugged was so raw when it came out
May 22nd 2020
34
      If I remember correctly...she was being forced to make money again
May 22nd 2020
33
           your actions in my Last Dance post make me sideeye any of your opinions
May 22nd 2020
39
           I sideeye adults claiming they don't care about things
May 22nd 2020
41
                pot? zat you?
May 22nd 2020
42
           That could explain the late arrival at shows
May 22nd 2020
40
                In summary...she ran out of fucks to give
May 22nd 2020
43
                Interlude 5...
May 22nd 2020
44
                     I get all of that.
May 22nd 2020
46
                          This part.
May 29th 2020
108
Lauryn Hill is ICONIC
May 22nd 2020
32
right...
May 22nd 2020
36
id say India Arie took a pretty good swing at it but def get your point
May 22nd 2020
47
RE: Lauryn Hill is ICONIC
May 22nd 2020
50
regardless how you spin it...
May 22nd 2020
54
RE: regardless how you spin it...
May 22nd 2020
55
She didn't talk enough about sucking black dicks
May 22nd 2020
56
      RE: She didn't talk enough about sucking black dicks
May 22nd 2020
57
      Those artists are not the same
May 22nd 2020
65
           I hear you...
May 22nd 2020
67
           RE: Those artists are not the same
May 22nd 2020
72
                Non-black people can't name one Jill Scott song
May 23rd 2020
90
      your respectability politics makes your argument shitty
May 22nd 2020
83
           My observation and evidence based
May 23rd 2020
88
                no they're not. they make no sense
May 24th 2020
100
LMBO ... iconic
May 23rd 2020
98
All of this over Lauryn Hill?
May 22nd 2020
48
I always found the Robert Glasper thing interesting...
May 22nd 2020
51
      RE: I always found the Robert Glasper thing interesting...
May 22nd 2020
52
      maybe he wanted to see for himself?
May 22nd 2020
58
           Michael Jackson wanted to work with Will.i.am
May 22nd 2020
63
Trauma, and, if I think about it a bit more she kind of has a cohort
May 22nd 2020
49
True. Most of these artist you listed have a “fuck the man” vibe
May 22nd 2020
53
yeah, this...
May 22nd 2020
59
there was an article once posted on here some years ago
May 22nd 2020
61
RE: there was an article once posted on here some years ago
May 22nd 2020
62
      She did what she saw Wyclef and other dudes in the industry
May 22nd 2020
64
           Sexism
May 22nd 2020
66
           RE: Sexism
May 22nd 2020
68
                okay dude, we get it, you don't like her
May 22nd 2020
69
                lol.
May 22nd 2020
70
                RE: okay dude, we get it, you don't like her
May 22nd 2020
71
                Do you understand the concept of equality and "fairness"
May 22nd 2020
75
                RE: Do you understand the concept of equality and "fairness&amp...
May 22nd 2020
77
                     RE: Do you understand the concept of equality and "fairness&amp...
May 22nd 2020
78
                          RE: Do you understand the concept of equality and "fairness&amp...
May 22nd 2020
79
                sorry to break it to you, but that's the entire music industry
May 22nd 2020
84
                     RE: sorry to break it to you, but that's the entire music industry
May 22nd 2020
85
                     when you're wrong and can't admit it
May 23rd 2020
87
                          RE: when you're wrong and can't admit it
May 23rd 2020
91
                     agreed
May 22nd 2020
86
                     exactly. none of us were there
May 24th 2020
102
                     Yep!!!
May 23rd 2020
89
           Wyclef is not a good example
May 23rd 2020
99
                Yeah, that's worth pointing out.
May 24th 2020
104
                Gotcha. I didn’t have hard evidence, was just speculating.
May 24th 2020
106
She became less interested in making commercial art
May 22nd 2020
74
just to add a little tidbit of industry info
May 23rd 2020
92
Yeah, Che talks about there being an A-team and a B-team
May 23rd 2020
93
I’ve been waiting on you...
May 23rd 2020
96
Uh, no
May 23rd 2020
94
thank you...
May 23rd 2020
95
thank you for this.
May 24th 2020
101
I have to say...
May 24th 2020
103
There's a podcast documentary about TMOLH and Lauryn
May 24th 2020
105
^ J.PERIOD Presents The Live Mixtape: Ms. Lauryn Hill Edition [Live Broa...
May 29th 2020
107

Adwhizz
Member since Nov 12th 2003
39946 posts
Thu May-21-20 06:14 PM

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1. "Didn't she fall out with the production team from the first one?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I'm shocked NOBODY tried to get her to put out a new album

there's probably plenty of artists/producers who'd like to work with her even after all the stories that have come out about how she allegedly treats people

R.I.P. Loud But Wrong Guy
Dec 29th 2009 - Dec 17th 2017

  

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Mafamaticks
Member since Jan 12th 2004
4190 posts
Thu May-21-20 06:58 PM

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3. "If by fall out you mean didn't credit any of them then yeah."
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

I still remember cutting class to go buy it, opening up the credits thinking and thinking, "Fuck she did all of this by herself?"

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
19444 posts
Thu May-21-20 08:36 PM

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6. "LOL I've been meaning to break out my copy for a long time ..."
In response to Reply # 3


          

... are the credits really like "All instruments and production and singing and rapping and engineering and ... by Ms. Hill" ?

I'm being sensational with the above obviously but are the credits as bad as people have been saying all these years ? I suppose I could just look them up but


>I still remember cutting class to go buy it, opening up the
>credits thinking and thinking, "Fuck she did all of this by
>herself?"

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Mafamaticks
Member since Jan 12th 2004
4190 posts
Thu May-21-20 09:32 PM

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8. "pretty much"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

I was 15 when that shit first came out. I was convinced she was the greatest ever

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
19444 posts
Thu May-21-20 10:16 PM

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9. "Yea I was 14 - and I thought she was untouchable as well."
In response to Reply # 8


          

But at that age I wasn't as invested in reading full album credits, but at the same time I understood - on some level at least - that music is largely collaborative. So I don't think I ever presumed that she did *everything* on Miseducation.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Trinity444
Charter member
40824 posts
Fri May-22-20 09:04 AM

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29. "I need a break down in how it works..."
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

like, when some contributes. was it an issue when miseducation dropped?

  

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luminous
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11332 posts
Fri May-22-20 12:39 PM

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60. "yeah, it was a big deal"
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

she got sued

--
Sometimes you have to look reality in the face and say 'No!'
-Ben (Reaper)

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
12366 posts
Thu May-21-20 11:02 PM

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12. "I just checked the credits on Spotify..."
In response to Reply # 6


          

Every song except "Lost Ones" lists her as the sole producer (Vada Nobles shares production credit on that one).
A few songs list other writers, but that's it.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtNhsGgEk54
Everything's turning out perfectly

  

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lightworks
Member since Feb 17th 2006
5475 posts
Fri May-22-20 08:59 AM

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27. "Ha yeah, there really is a line like that in the liner notes:"
In response to Reply # 6


          

>... are the credits really like "All instruments and
>production and singing and rapping and engineering and ... by
>Ms. Hill" ?

I do remember thinking it was truly amazing at the time when I read it, but ya know it just doesn't make sense looking back of course, and that's not even taking into account all the New Ark law suits and things...

I wonder if feeling like Wyclef was the leader and decision maker in the Fugees made her feel like she had to make it look like she was the 100% mastermind behind everything involving her debut...

If that's the case, that sucks, there should in theory be nothing wrong with admitting it takes a village to write a masterpiece of an album.

Collaboration should be celebrated, not silenced!

  

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Trinity444
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40824 posts
Thu May-21-20 06:49 PM

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2. "she’s telling you in that album..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I can’t understand how people can listen to that album and still call her crazy. nothing is crazy about not wanting fame anymore.

  

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FLUIDJ
Member since Sep 18th 2002
42338 posts
Thu May-21-20 07:20 PM

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5. "I’m saying..... it really ain’t no mystery. "
In response to Reply # 2


  

          




"Get ready....for your blessing....."
"Bury me by my Grand-Grand and when you can come follow me"

  

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tariqhu
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Thu May-21-20 10:41 PM

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11. "I can see why nobody knows."
In response to Reply # 2


          

that a hard listen. I doubt most folks got into the lyrics. some folks liked it, but most folks thought it sucked. I listened once.

from what I remember, she wasn't into be controlled to be part of that machine any more. I don't think that's the full story tho. seems like that was just the beginning. we'll likely never know.

she started being destructive to her career. no showing or showing up 3 hours later doesn't say control to me. its says the opposite.

Y'all buy those labels, I was born supreme

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
12366 posts
Thu May-21-20 11:41 PM

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13. "She talked between the songs..."
In response to Reply # 11
Thu May-21-20 11:47 PM by Boogie Stimuli

          

and that's where she said everything about being uncomfortable with fame. It wasn't metaphorical either. It was extremely straightforward. Fans of Lauren saw or at least heard it once.

Now if people don't buy what she was saying and think there was more to it, ok... I how one could come to that conclusion. Her declaration that she was breaking out of social norms and unspoken obligations was very clear on the Unplugged performance tho.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtNhsGgEk54
Everything's turning out perfectly

  

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lightworks
Member since Feb 17th 2006
5475 posts
Fri May-22-20 12:05 AM

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16. "I totally remember the famous line “fantasy is what people want..."
In response to Reply # 13


          

...but reality is what they need...And I’ve just retired fantasy part”, I think it was right before “Adam Lives in Theory”.

I guess what I’m getting at is sure retiring from the fantasy part is not always looking perfectly on trend fashion wise with the perfectly manicured hair, the Lauryn with the cute outfits and perfect locs has been replaced by a natural and wear old lady clothes to try to have people focus on I don’t know the music I guess? And not her fashion choices because that’s fantasy?

If that’s what she was just rocking with fine.

But the three hours late to gigs, sounding very unrehearsed, and just starting to be very unprofessional when it comes to live shows, that’s not as easily explained away by just dropping the fantasy part.

That’s some deeper and more problematic thing and that’s what I’m trying to figure out.

And no before someone tries to explain it as such lol, it’s not as simple as “she is displaying the reality of being 3 hours late for a gig, that’s her truth let her live in it” lol.

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
12366 posts
Fri May-22-20 12:41 AM

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18. "Word"
In response to Reply # 16


          

>...but reality is what they need...And I’ve just retired
>fantasy part”, I think it was right before “Adam Lives in
>Theory”.
>
>I guess what I’m getting at is sure retiring from the
>fantasy part is not always looking perfectly on trend fashion
>wise with the perfectly manicured hair, the Lauryn with the
>cute outfits and perfect locs has been replaced by a natural
>and wear old lady clothes to try to have people focus on I
>don’t know the music I guess? And not her fashion choices
>because that’s fantasy?



What always comes to mind for me was when she was talking about holding your belly in and finally saying 'fuck it' and just relaxing and letting it poke out a lil bit lol. That and the part about being at Disney World where it's all pretty in the front while you having people slaving in the back in harsh conditions.



>If that’s what she was just rocking with fine.
>
>But the three hours late to gigs, sounding very unrehearsed,
>and just starting to be very unprofessional when it comes to
>live shows, that’s not as easily explained away by just
>dropping the fantasy part.
>
>That’s some deeper and more problematic thing and that’s
>what I’m trying to figure out.



I totally get what you mean. I used to wonder if there was something done to her after that speech she gave at the Vatican.
The whole being 3 hrs late and stuff is really hard to explain.


>And no before someone tries to explain it as such lol, it’s
>not as simple as “she is displaying the reality of being 3
>hours late for a gig, that’s her truth let her live in it”
>lol.



Lol. I mean, I guess that *could* be part of her idea of breaking out of the confines of social norms, since that's literally what it would be. If the idea is doing things for herself and not keeping other people happy, she's doing a great job at the 2nd part. It could go really deep, back to some childhood trauma and spending her whole life trying to please other people. Maybe that's what made her great in the first place, in the vein of a Michael Jackson. Who knows.
It's like when ppl are trying to stop caring what others think, so they just do any wild thing that will make ppl look a them crazy, just as a way of thickening their skin. I figure maybe she's just totally disregarding whatever would please others as a way of getting comfortable with how that feels, b/c maybe she never knew what it felt like to think of herself first. Just hope she finds peace and can "Come Back To The Middle" as India.Arie put it.





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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtNhsGgEk54
Everything's turning out perfectly

  

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lightworks
Member since Feb 17th 2006
5475 posts
Fri May-22-20 08:51 AM

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25. "Word, all really fantastic points."
In response to Reply # 18


          

>It's like when ppl are trying to stop caring what others
>think, so they just do any wild thing that will make ppl look
>a them crazy, just as a way of thickening their skin.

Somehow this point reminded me of Richard Williams, who at one point said he was out there acting crazy and saying wild things in the press so that the negative attention was pulled away from Serena and Venus as they were more and more famous, so that they could just focus on being great at playing tennis and he was fine with the bad press for himself just as long as it helped to shield them from it.

Makes me wonder if somehow someway Lauryn is trying to have all the attention go toward everything but new music is her way to somehow maybe create new stuff in peace?

Or maybe as you said she is just being her true authentic self, doing things for herself and that includes being on maximum strength CP time forever and always lol...

You would think if the latter she eventually would get tired of the bad press and ticket sales declining and all that stuff but who knows everyone is different I guess lol

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
12366 posts
Fri May-22-20 06:06 PM

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73. "RE: Word, all really fantastic points."
In response to Reply # 25


          

>Makes me wonder if somehow someway Lauryn is trying to have
>all the attention go toward everything but new music is her
>way to somehow maybe create new stuff in peace?


Hmm... that could be it too. That's kinda brilliant.


>Or maybe as you said she is just being her true authentic
>self, doing things for herself and that includes being on
>maximum strength CP time forever and always lol...
>


"maximum strength CP" 😂😂🤣🤣

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtNhsGgEk54
Everything's turning out perfectly

  

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tariqhu
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Fri May-22-20 08:42 AM

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24. "I'm sure I heard it on the one time I listened."
In response to Reply # 13


          

that's been a bunch of moons ago. it may have started with wanting break the fame norms, which I totally understand.

however, the other stuff regarding how she treats musicians, the way she handles shows, etc., appear to be self-sabotage. I get wanting to control the narrative and not living everyone else's fantasy. that fame monster doesn't work for everyone. isn't healthy for many. her way of handling things doesn't seem to healthy either. admittedly, I'm speaking out of turn. I stopped following the stories on her several years ago.

I just hope she and her fam are happy. whatever that means for her.

Y'all buy those labels, I was born supreme

  

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Trinity444
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Fri May-22-20 08:38 AM

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22. "then it’s hard to call her crazy..."
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

if you’re not listening to the lyrics or think it’s sucks. We hear directly from her how everything stopped for her. Try to imagine if all your business was in the streets. How easy would it be for you to show up at work everyday?



  

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tariqhu
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Fri May-22-20 10:51 AM

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45. "I never called crazy. black women get called get called that"
In response to Reply # 22


          

on the daily. I don't subscribe to that. none of us have any idea what her mental state is. never did.

I'm saying it may have started out with what she said that there, but that has little to do with her being late, stealing credits, not paying musicians. all of that says dishonest, at the least.

entertainer's business is always out there. that's the nature of the beast. that's no excuse for not doing what you agreed to do. you sign a contract to show up at 8 and you hit the stage before midnight? nah. I'm not gonna let you keep wasting my time. that's on me.

sure, late happens, but not at the level she does it. its dishonest to the folks that actually want to support her. the folks that would bop to new shit if she dropped it, even if its wack. I'm not going to keep supporting with my time and money if you can't hold up your end of the deal.

tell me the last time you heard Bey, Jay, Nikki, Megan, Wyclef, Erykah, Jill, or anyone else not doing that work because their business was in the streets. that's not how that works.

I root for Lauryn. always have. I want her to win. I'm good with the music she's put out and shows I witnessed. However, I can't keep supporting with my time and money.

Y'all buy those labels, I was born supreme

  

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FLUIDJ
Member since Sep 18th 2002
42338 posts
Thu May-21-20 07:17 PM

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4. "Industry rule #4,080"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


"Get ready....for your blessing....."
"Bury me by my Grand-Grand and when you can come follow me"

  

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jrocc
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Thu May-21-20 09:14 PM

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7. "Wyclef"
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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mikediggz
Member since Dec 02nd 2003
9124 posts
Thu May-21-20 10:37 PM

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10. "she said she felt the spotlight was too much for her"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

she said she was feeling like she had to get glammed up just to go around the corner to the store and was having trouble dealing with the new levels of fame and attention. So as a result she withdrew and went in the opposite direction becoming somewhat of a recluse.

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
34127 posts
Thu May-21-20 11:44 PM

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14. "that's her business."
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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JFrost1117
Member since Aug 12th 2005
22698 posts
Fri May-22-20 12:03 AM

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15. "LIke so, like that."
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

This girl stole Miseducation out of some dude's bookbag and gave it to me and I don't like the majority of it. I actually like the Unplugged a lot more.

I'll take her Essence Awards performance of "Adam Lives in Theory" over anything she's done.

____________
Twitter & IG: @rulerofmyself
SC: rulerofmyself17

Yes! She's on the drugs. (c) BoHagon

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
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80. ":)"
In response to Reply # 15


          

  

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fontgangsta
Member since Sep 04th 2005
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Fri May-22-20 09:24 AM

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37. "dur-hur"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

  

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Dj Joey Joe
Member since Sep 01st 2007
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Fri May-22-20 12:30 AM

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17. "Lauryn Hill Got A Compound Of Musicians Working On Music All The Time"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Why she isn't releasing any of the songs is a good question when you got a crew of musicians, engineers, writers, producers, & etc working on music for over 10 years is beyond me.

She & a few others got people signing over all rights to her and her legal people, and usually have to keep a hush hush as to what goes down there but yeah she is sitting on a vault of music; but the same situation is going on, she takes all credit while letting everyone else do what they want and.... .

I knew she was batty from jump but nobody ever paid attention until things leaked about how she gets down .


https://DjJoeyJoe.bandcamp.com/album/Emerald-Dust

---------
"We in here talking about later career Prince records
& your fool ass is cruising around in a time machine
trying to collect props for a couple of sociopathic degenerates" - s.blak

  

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FLUIDJ
Member since Sep 18th 2002
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Fri May-22-20 08:03 AM

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20. "Like I said...."
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

https://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=13384927&mesg_id=13384927&page=#13384934



"Get ready....for your blessing....."
"Bury me by my Grand-Grand and when you can come follow me"

  

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mind_grapes
Member since Nov 13th 2007
883 posts
Fri May-22-20 06:51 PM

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76. "This isn't really that different from how a lot of fine art studios oper..."
In response to Reply # 17


          

the people who actually paint and make Jeff Koon's art, for example, do not have any expectation of ownership. And if you are the artist and are upfront with what the working conditions will be, then your workers can either agree or move on to something else. Like if I think the melody and lyrics are what constitute songwriting, then I would want all of my studio musicians and producers to know upfront that I think adding chord inversions, riffs, or spicing up the arrangement would fall under mechanical rights or something (depending on how much of those contributions end up on the actual recording).

Moreover, an artist might be open to suggestions on changing up words, but that doesn't mean you're a songwriter. It would be like if an author included all of the people who gave edits and suggestions on their manuscript in the final list of authors. Some people like Kanye will credit everyone in the room during studio sessions, while others wil argue that without them overseeing their project then none of those other contributions would happen without your original demos or outlines of what you ultimately want.

In Ms. Hill's case, her record label created really shitty contracts that the musicians she was working with had signed (because most of them didnt know better). The record label then pushed her to settle out of court to protect their own control over her master recording. Most professional session musicians routinely contribute crucial parts of songs that they never get credited for. If she had taken this to court AND these musicians really did sign away their contributions, then there is a good chance she would have won. But I am not an entertainment lawyer. And I also do not know her or these musicians. So maybe someone else on here would be better able to speak on this stuff.

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
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Fri May-22-20 09:16 PM

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81. "I think this is a very plausible and nuanced analysis"
In response to Reply # 76
Fri May-22-20 09:16 PM by Damali

          

i really appreciate you taking the time to write that out because most people love the soundbite story of "she stole from musicians" and don't bother w/anything else.

life is rarely neat and tidy.

d

  

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lightworks
Member since Feb 17th 2006
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Sat May-23-20 11:32 AM

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97. "Really good and interesting points. "
In response to Reply # 76


          

  

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thegodcam
Member since Oct 22nd 2004
41060 posts
Fri May-22-20 05:35 AM

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19. "6 kids"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

*******************************************************
i will not let finite disappointment undermine infinite hope
- Cory Booker

Football is a simple game; 22 men chase a ball for 90 minutes, and at the end the Germans always win
- Gary Lineker

  

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FLUIDJ
Member since Sep 18th 2002
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Fri May-22-20 08:04 AM

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21. "this! only got 2 and will readily admit that we are "different" now.."
In response to Reply # 19
Fri May-22-20 08:04 AM by FLUIDJ

  

          

"Get ready....for your blessing....."
"Bury me by my Grand-Grand and when you can come follow me"

  

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Mori
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Fri May-22-20 09:11 AM

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30. "Seriously! Motherhood will break you"
In response to Reply # 19


          

First baby daddy couldn't be named. 
She was told to abort her babies or else she would ruin her
career.
She got with a Marley who cheated on her with her assistant.
Then she still had to raise these kids on her salary, income
etc...

Some women choose motherhood over career. I feel it now at my
lowly office worker status. Friends calling me to brag about
their trips to European beaches and promotions. I am just
waking up to make french toast sticks and color my Little
Pony.

Not every woman, especially black women, want to work. Being a
parent or a family person is a huge calling and demand. I
don't know who supports Lauryn, but it doesn't seem like she
has a Steadman-type figure holding down the fort. 

Being a black mother is WORK. 

Rise & Shine
Thrive & Grind
Heart & Mind

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
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Fri May-22-20 09:21 PM

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82. "ALL OF THIS"
In response to Reply # 30


          

I'm almost on the other side of it and i'm EXHAUSTED

they are emerging adults..22 and 24, and i'm doing my best to
provide a stable foundation from which they can save up and
make plans to forge their own path, which theyre both doing,
but i can't wait to just be on my own.

it will be the first time ever for me...before them, i  was
always in a relationship...i can't wait to be ALONE for a good
5 years, at least.

d

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
14968 posts
Fri May-22-20 08:39 AM

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23. "Same thing that happened to Andre...I ASSume"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Not errybody wants to stay under that bright light

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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CherNic
Member since Aug 18th 2005
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Fri May-22-20 08:52 AM

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26. "he stayed professional though"
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

I haven't listened to Miseducation in years and never heard the Unplugged, so I can't speak on that side but I don't give a fuck WHO you are, if you show up hours late over and over and OVER again to shows...you can fuck off

  

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Trinity444
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28. "lol. you should probably listen to unplugged..."
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

the miseducation Lauryn long been gone.

I also think part of her delays had to do with being forced to perform. didn’t she have to honor a contract or something?

  

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CherNic
Member since Aug 18th 2005
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Fri May-22-20 09:11 AM

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31. "IT DO NOT MATTER"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

I lost interest in the artist Lauryn Hill years ago.

  

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Trinity444
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35. "then how can you talk about her n/m"
In response to Reply # 31


  

          

  

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CherNic
Member since Aug 18th 2005
36452 posts
Fri May-22-20 09:40 AM

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38. "I LITERALLY said "I can't speak to that side""
In response to Reply # 35


  

          

And spoke to her showing up late to shows...

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
14968 posts
Fri May-22-20 09:18 AM

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34. "yeah, that unplugged was so raw when it came out"
In response to Reply # 28
Fri May-22-20 09:19 AM by bentagain

  

          

20 years ago me was not ready

It definitely cut deep even then

I'll have to revisit

I remember her talking about not being perfect vocally, wanting to keep some of the imperfections in her singing...and being pushed in the studio to do it over and over and over again

Look a certain way
Sound a certain way
Act a certain way

She pretty much laid out the reason for stepping away...she wasn't for the bullshit

If people really want to know what happened with her personally...I agree...it's in the unplugged album

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
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Fri May-22-20 09:15 AM

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33. "If I remember correctly...she was being forced to make money again"
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

for back taxes...?

I was fortunate enough to see her a few times before the issues

Wasn't a problem.

When the money compromised her desire to remain private...yeah, she didn't really GAF.

Cheers to Andre for having his finances together

Didn't say they were exactly the same...but the same sentiment for stepping away.

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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CherNic
Member since Aug 18th 2005
36452 posts
Fri May-22-20 09:48 AM

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39. "your actions in my Last Dance post make me sideeye any of your opinions"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
14968 posts
Fri May-22-20 10:09 AM

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41. "I sideeye adults claiming they don't care about things"
In response to Reply # 39


  

          

but log in and post multiple replies

You're doing it wrong.

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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CherNic
Member since Aug 18th 2005
36452 posts
Fri May-22-20 10:12 AM

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42. "pot? zat you?"
In response to Reply # 41


  

          

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
65394 posts
Fri May-22-20 09:55 AM

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40. "That could explain the late arrival at shows"
In response to Reply # 33


          

Iono tho. People waiting hours because they love your music and you just late because you don’t want to pay bills?

I think folks get it twisted because artist and actresses are paid big money. But it’s still a job. You have to show up.

but I also get the frustration of doing shows you aren’t paid for.

Hell.. I remember OutKast telling us in college they didn’t get paid for a huge show in DC for the radio station because they threatened not to play their music if they didn’t perform for free... and the DC area is usually the top market for record sales for artist back then so they played that show and were mad bitter afterwards.

which brings me to JayZ “you won’t play my hits? Well I don’t give a shit”

shut up already, damn

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
14968 posts
Fri May-22-20 10:13 AM

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43. "In summary...she ran out of fucks to give"
In response to Reply # 40


  

          

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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Trinity444
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Fri May-22-20 10:50 AM

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44. "Interlude 5..."
In response to Reply # 40


  

          

“ Music was my love and because everything I thought that had to accompany my music, it became my burden. It just got stolen from me. What is this? something I loved so much so quickly and so easily became something I loathe and hate. So now... I understand now it’s because I was measuring...comparing myself to a standard that wasn’t reality. ” Ms. Hill

I’m not making excuses for her, but try to imagine going to a job you hate and you can’t quit!

I hate the idea that former fans think she’s just shitting on people.

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
65394 posts
Fri May-22-20 10:55 AM

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46. "I get all of that. "
In response to Reply # 44


          

and I also had jobs I hated that I still had to wake up and go to even though I didn’t want to be there.

My thing tho is her fans were so loyal and she treated them like shit at times. Be mad at the people in power but don’t punish the fans who pay good money for shows.

shut up already, damn

  

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soulpsychodelicyde
Member since Nov 18th 2003
12008 posts
Fri May-29-20 12:38 PM

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108. "This part. "
In response to Reply # 46


          

It's very clear to me she had a breakdown. I get that. I also know that she only started doing shows again because she had a huge tax debt that she had to pay. She didn't really want to be doing it, but she had to.

All of that, however, still makes it hard to forgive or excuse the absolutely abhorrent way she behaved and treated her fans. 3 and 4 hours late... no-shows.... berating fans who had the audacity to challenge her or be upset at the shitty treatment...

... I feel bad for what she's dealing with, but there was an entitlement to her behavior that is not OK. Those that keep going to her shows and supporting her deserve what they get. I opted out years ago.

  

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Mori
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3364 posts
Fri May-22-20 09:15 AM

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32. "Lauryn Hill is ICONIC"
In response to Reply # 0


          

She doesn't have to do anything else. She is our generation's
Nina Simone. She shifted consciousness, beauty and was the
last successful dark skinned, nappy headed, dread-loced,
beautiful black woman to take the world by storm. 

After Lauryn, things shifted to light skinned, biracial,
racially ambiguous, sexual singers. 


There has not been a black looking artist to reach her heights
since that era. 

She doesn't need to do anything else .

Rise & Shine
Thrive & Grind
Heart & Mind

  

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Trinity444
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Fri May-22-20 09:19 AM

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36. "right..."
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

  

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mikediggz
Member since Dec 02nd 2003
9124 posts
Fri May-22-20 11:08 AM

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47. "id say India Arie took a pretty good swing at it but def get your point"
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
1865 posts
Fri May-22-20 11:31 AM

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50. "RE: Lauryn Hill is ICONIC"
In response to Reply # 32


          

But she never did anything to begin with....
others did it and she stole it, which is why she can't
replicate it on record or live. 

  

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Trinity444
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Fri May-22-20 11:49 AM

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54. "regardless how you spin it..."
In response to Reply # 50


  

          

Lauryn inspired many. a reasonable person would never deny her
contribution to hip hop. 

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
1865 posts
Fri May-22-20 12:12 PM

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55. "RE: regardless how you spin it..."
In response to Reply # 54
Fri May-22-20 12:15 PM by allStah

          

reasonable?

stealing is contributing? 


This is how slave shit starts, because we do it to ourselves
first. We steal from each other, so the white man comes in and
steals our shit....because they are like hell they do it to
each other, which is why we also lost hip hip like we lost
rock and roll. 

Wyclef wrote and trained her how to rhyme on all the fugees
albums, and then tons of musicians wrote and produced
Miseducation. 

Please focus on the real women who really contributed to music
as a musician.  I know people hate A.Keys, but at least she
wrote, produced and actually knows how to play an instrument. 


But people don't really care about facts and the truth...as
long as sounds and look good, so carry on. 




  

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Mori
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Fri May-22-20 12:27 PM

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56. "She didn't talk enough about sucking black dicks"
In response to Reply # 50


          

I don't remember another artist having a positive non sexual
impact on black women artists since Lauryn Hill. I don't know
if this generation is more hungry for sexualizing black women
in music but I notice this trend and it is VERY disturbing. 

I am far from a prude but I remember little kids lining up to
meet Lauryn Hill and seeing a full lipped dark skinned woman
at the top was very encouraging. 

Since her, EVERY single famous singer has slutted themselves
out to stay famous. Alicia Keys might be the only one who has
not done anything provocative to stay afloat.

Now, every famous black singer MUST talk about sucking dick,
fucking and something associated with semen to stay famous.
Rapper, singer, mother, performer- it doesn't matter.

I stan for Lauryn for choosing her own integrity over becoming
whatever we call these peformers/sex workers today. 

Rise & Shine
Thrive & Grind
Heart & Mind

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
1865 posts
Fri May-22-20 12:34 PM

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57. "RE: She didn't talk enough about sucking black dicks"
In response to Reply # 56


          

What? I'm confused ...everyone after Hill has slut'd
themselves?  

Badu
Jill Scott
Her
Res
Goaple
Amel Larrieux 
Esperanza spalding
Norah JOnes, etc, etc, etc 


  

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Mori
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Fri May-22-20 02:13 PM

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65. "Those artists are not the same"
In response to Reply # 57
Fri May-22-20 02:14 PM by Mori

          

Lauryn won Grammy's, cover of Rolling Stone magazine. She had
a big machine behind her. Selling out tours globally.

The artists you mentioned are niche, culturally neo soul
bound. Even most that you mentioned are not dark skinned women
who defy European beauty stereotypes. 

Lauryn carved out a new identity that no one has yet really
met in terms of success and positive imagery of dark skinned
black women. 

Rise & Shine
Thrive & Grind
Heart & Mind

  

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Trinity444
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Fri May-22-20 03:49 PM

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67. "I hear you..."
In response to Reply # 65


  

          

not to say she’s perfect but I’ll never believe any of the
rumors about her. I’ll wait for her to address it in her
music...like, she did on Unplugged. 

If there’s never any music 
I can live with that too
she’s already gifted me...

/

Rapsody tho...
I can see her doing what lauryn did 




  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
1865 posts
Fri May-22-20 04:46 PM

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72. "RE: Those artists are not the same"
In response to Reply # 65


          

good lord. 

badu and scott are niche artists?


Scott and Badu have more talent in  their pinky than Hill will
ever have in her life. Hill has no vocal range that can even
compare to those two ladies....and quest will tell you that. 

and Scott and badu have all won and have been nominated for
grammys in different years for different records!

and guess what?  they wrote and sang their own music. 

seriously?


  

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Mori
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Sat May-23-20 08:10 AM

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90. "Non-black people can't name one Jill Scott song"
In response to Reply # 72


          

I didn't know that Jill Scott was not popular until I went to
a white university. Some people heard of Erykah Badu but
couldn't name one song. Jill Scott has never had a crossover
hit. 

Lauryn Hill, every single person I know either had the album
or know her songs, across ALL races. 

The other artists are good but no mass appeal. Still I am
hanging on to the colorism angle. A huge issue for me in the
present day music industry.

Rise & Shine
Thrive & Grind
Heart & Mind

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
34127 posts
Fri May-22-20 09:29 PM

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83. "your respectability politics makes your argument shitty"
In response to Reply # 56


          

human beings are sexual and art is self-expression.

if that's what anyone wants to put forth in their art, that
does not make them less worthy...ESPECIALLY women

we bring forth LIFE through our bodies and sex is the
conduit...it brings pleasure and life. 

so motherfucking yes we get to talk about all that shit or not
and none of us are the better or worse for it

oh and sucking black dick is a beautiful thing.

d

  

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Mori
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Sat May-23-20 08:02 AM

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88. "My observation and evidence based"
In response to Reply # 83


          

Not ONE black male artist in the 2000's has ever gotten super
famous talking about how much he loves black women. 

EVERY black male musician who degrades and disrespects black
women is in the top 10. We can look at billboard, record
sales, streams etc..

EVER black FEmale musician who succumbs to black male
degradation skyrockets to the top.

Every white/latino-adjacent artist who talks about loving each
other skyrockets.

Something is wrong when our music, the one powerful tool we
have, is used to hypnotically tell us that "sucking black
dicks" is a beautiful thing to our children, girls and
young men. 

Call me Delores Tucker, but I think black music today is VERY
toxic, sexually perverse and specifically geared to black
women feeling less than. Black men have already successfully
sold their souls to white women, drugs, depression and
suicide. Black women are the last group holding on and defying
the odds. 

Lauryn Hill represents a time and place in black music where
black women were revered beyond cold, distant abusive sex. 
Shitty argument or not, this music trend is something that
will get worse.

Rise & Shine
Thrive & Grind
Heart & Mind

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
34127 posts
Sun May-24-20 11:59 AM

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100. "no they're not. they make no sense"
In response to Reply # 88


          

>Not ONE black male artist in the 2000's has ever gotten
super
>famous talking about how much he loves black women. 

see you're already moving the goalposts. your complaint about
the women is that they are rapping about sex...men have always
rapped about sex but now you changing it to "talking
about how much he loves black women"

so nope. i'm not wasting my breath on folks who don't know how
to stay on topic and just wanna spout random sexist
generalizations. 

peace out.

d

  

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Ray_Snill
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Sat May-23-20 01:10 PM

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98. "LMBO ... iconic"
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

<=========================================
https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/PYzh4v9cSf4FDnq3yMQyqNqh79o=/800x0/filters:no_upscale%28%29/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/4079674/jlio.0.gif

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
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Fri May-22-20 11:27 AM

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48. "All of this over Lauryn Hill?"
In response to Reply # 0
Fri May-22-20 11:35 AM by allStah

          

She really wasn't/isn't that good. She got lazy when she realized that she had to really put in the work and time to become a true musician and singer.

Nowhere near the level of a Nina Simone or Aretha Franklin. But she was gassed and thought that she was. She simply had the ability to harmonize and rap.

Plus she stole a lot of her music, and she didn't write or produce the music for Miseducation. So her glory and accomplishments are based on the true and hard work of others.

Robert Glasper on Hill:

You've already stolen all of my friends' music. Miseducation was made by great musicians and producers that I know personally. You got a big hand off of music you didn't even write," the multi-Grammy Award winner says. "Those songs were written by other people and they did not get their credit."


"She likes to take credit so she can become this super person. If you're a super person, and you're that talented, do it. You feel me? She couldn't tune her guitar in rehearsal," he adds of the 2008 gig. "You haven't done enough to be the way you are. You just have not. The one thing you did that was great, you didn't do."






  

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lightworks
Member since Feb 17th 2006
5475 posts
Fri May-22-20 11:34 AM

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51. "I always found the Robert Glasper thing interesting..."
In response to Reply # 48


          

I watched his interview where he went in on her and at first was like "Damn he has some good points"

and then Lauryn responded, I think she posted an article on Medium or something, and she had the excellent point of "Ok Robert, you are going in on me for stealing your friends songs and being this and that then why did you agree to the gig when my manager reached out?

If I was that bad and did all those things wanting to still work with me when I did that to your friends is off, no?"

While that doesn't negate all the things she did I thought it did take the wind out of the sails of Robert's salty ass points lol...

And Robert was a successful musician at that point (I remember he said Lauryn's manager wanted him to audition to be her piano player for their one-off gig, and he was like nah you can listen to my CDs I already put out though lmao) so it wasn't about "he's a struggling musician that can't afford to say no to gigs based on principle alone"...

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
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Fri May-22-20 11:43 AM

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52. "RE: I always found the Robert Glasper thing interesting..."
In response to Reply # 51
Fri May-22-20 11:50 AM by allStah

          

Robert is not the only one chiming this.

It has been stated by others as well.

Why do you think her concerts suck, and her guitar playing is even worse? And why do you think she hasn't made anything else, because she didn't write or make the music her first album.

Once the word got out about her, it was a wrap. She is simply living off the fame of one album.

I could see if she were MF DOOM, who we all know is dope as fuck, and just likes to piss people off at his shows, by not showing up.

But Lauryn is simply not talented in the since of being a real musician and real singer.

The crazy thing is that people keep going to her shows only to have the same shitty experience....so I giver her credit for that. She is able to get paid off the gullible minds of others.

Chick to credit for ever production aspect on her album : engineer, writer, producer, etc...yeah she took credit for engineering, when you know damn well she does not know how to work a mixing board or mix sound.

  

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tariqhu
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Fri May-22-20 12:34 PM

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58. "maybe he wanted to see for himself?"
In response to Reply # 51


          

its one thing to hear it from others. even close friends. but seems like he wanted to see it with his own eyes.

Y'all buy those labels, I was born supreme

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
65394 posts
Fri May-22-20 01:18 PM

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63. "Michael Jackson wanted to work with Will.i.am"
In response to Reply # 58


          

His manager was like.. “why would you work with him? It’s a waste of time”

Will.i.am: nigga, it’s Michael Jackson!

I think Glasper wanted to work with Lauryn Hill because it’s Lauryn fucking Hill!

shut up already, damn

  

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double negative
Member since Dec 14th 2007
21182 posts
Fri May-22-20 11:29 AM

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49. "Trauma, and, if I think about it a bit more she kind of has a cohort"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Lauren
D'Angelo
Mos Def/Yasiin
and to an extent, Erykah

they all seem to have a kindred vibe. Maybe it's being uncomfortable with being blessed with that much brilliance and finding it difficult to be seen/vulnerable at a that level. But, they all seem to also be the folks who reject playing the game. These are also the "artists" - i mean, sure, all musicians are artists, but I would put these folks in a different bucket. Integrity is higher than all other accolades.

Erykah is different in that shes managed to balance out things. She plays the game but still manages to stay true to her vision.

I'll have to think about it a bit.

***********************************************************
https://soundcloud.com/swageyph/yph-die-with-me

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
65394 posts
Fri May-22-20 11:47 AM

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53. "True. Most of these artist you listed have a “fuck the man” vibe"
In response to Reply # 49


          

Which I’m cool with..

If you can have a comfortable life without punching a clock while doing your thing why wouldn’t you?

My only criticism with any of these artist is janky shows. Don’t put on a janky show for people who put you on a pedestal.

Besides that.. do what the fuck you want to do with your life.

shut up already, damn

  

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luminous
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Fri May-22-20 12:38 PM

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59. "yeah, this..."
In response to Reply # 49


  

          

she was following a weird spiritual leader, so obviously she was searching for some kind of peace

--
Sometimes you have to look reality in the face and say 'No!'
-Ben (Reaper)

  

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luminous
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Fri May-22-20 12:53 PM

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61. "there was an article once posted on here some years ago"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

listed a number of issues

-she wasn't sure who the father of her first child was, could have been wyclef
-people who worked on her 1st album sued her because they didn't get credit, she felt betrayed
-she was following some weird guru spiritual leader in Jamaica
-she had an obsession with Bob Marley: having his grand kids even though the Rohan Marley didn't marry her.
-felt like a hypocrite for some of her lyrics about women dressing a certain way but she did that to sell records..

anyone have the link to that article?

later on she had IRS issues.
and she can't perform her original song because of being sued, so she only performs weird mixes. so she has to perform to make money but probably doesn't want to anymore

--
Sometimes you have to look reality in the face and say 'No!'
-Ben (Reaper)

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
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Fri May-22-20 01:12 PM

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62. "RE: there was an article once posted on here some years ago"
In response to Reply # 61
Fri May-22-20 01:21 PM by allStah

          

>-people who worked on her 1st album sued her because they
>didn't get credit, she felt betrayed

LOL. She stole music, mofos sued....Her take is comical


and she shouldn't be allowed to perform the original songs, because she didn't make them...So I am glad there is a block on that. She shouldn't be allowed to profit off the work of your own brothers and sisters who you don't want to pay or give credit to.

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
65394 posts
Fri May-22-20 01:23 PM

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64. "She did what she saw Wyclef and other dudes in the industry "
In response to Reply # 62


          

are able to get away with..

She just didn’t understand the game or do it the right way.

Puffy turns one knob and he’s a producer on a track. Wyclef had a team I believe but he got lost of the credit. Now, what we don’t know is how these dudes handled their shit with songwriters. Maybe he broke them off or paid for their publishing?

Ionno. Maybe she was just sloppy with that part.

But let’s not act like Hill was the first one to take credit for songs she didn’t write. It happens all the time.

shut up already, damn

  

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Mori
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Fri May-22-20 02:24 PM

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66. "Sexism "
In response to Reply # 64


          

I appreciate you pointing out sexism in the hip hop industry. Black women have gotten the raw end in many deals. I think the new generation has shifted its tone to reflect a combative approach to success. Which is why I like Cardi B.

I think people learned from Lauryn Hill even her "failures" have helped shape the black entertainment industry.

I hate when some black men love to find a villain in a successful Black woman over one mistep. Robert Glasper was terrible airing her out like that. But he gave him clout.

Rise & Shine
Thrive & Grind
Heart & Mind

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
1865 posts
Fri May-22-20 03:50 PM

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68. "RE: Sexism "
In response to Reply # 66


          

That ain’t got nothing to do with her lying about music she didn’t make or write, and stealing credit for it.

Man or woman, it is wrong all the way around. I don’t feel sorry for someone who is taking money and food out of artists mouth.



  

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luminous
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Fri May-22-20 04:00 PM

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69. "okay dude, we get it, you don't like her"
In response to Reply # 68


  

          

--
Sometimes you have to look reality in the face and say 'No!'
-Ben (Reaper)

  

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Trinity444
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Fri May-22-20 04:03 PM

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70. "lol. "
In response to Reply # 69


  

          

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
1865 posts
Fri May-22-20 04:36 PM

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71. "RE: okay dude, we get it, you don't like her"
In response to Reply # 69


          

It not about not liking her. I don't know her to not like her. It's just its a problem when someone steals another person's creativity and takes credit for it, and then makes it appears as if he or she is being betrayed or victimized

To see somewhat play the victim, when that person is the one who is ripping people off, tells you a lot about that person.

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
12366 posts
Fri May-22-20 06:25 PM

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75. "Do you understand the concept of equality and "fairness""
In response to Reply # 68


          

People are simply saying everyone should be treated the same. If you going this hard at Lauryn, why do you not go this hard at other artists who've done the same thing?

You in this post talking about "this how slave shit starts" and the white man...
But you're doing the same shit white people do when we say a black person shouldn't get harsher sentencing than white people for the same crimes. White folks say "well they shouldn't have committed the crime at all!" when the point is equal sentencing. You're saying "but she shouldn't have done it at all!"
You're coming down harder on Lauryn for the same offense that others (mostly men) have committed. Why?

~
~
~
~
~
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtNhsGgEk54
Everything's turning out perfectly

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
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Fri May-22-20 08:17 PM

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77. "RE: Do you understand the concept of equality and &amp;quot;fairness&amp..."
In response to Reply # 75
Fri May-22-20 08:21 PM by allStah

          

Equality and fairness?

I’m thinking about the black artists who aren’t getting paid or credit for their work. That’s who I’m thinking about. That’s the equality and fairness that I’m focused on.

And who would you be mad at more, someone outside of your ethnicity fucking you over, or you own people fucking you over?

And just because other people are doing it and getting away with it , that gives her the right to fuck people over as well?

I don’t get your logic here

Simply put , she stole music. She is being sued, and hopefully those artists win so they can get credit and get paid.

Who wouldn’t want that?



  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
12366 posts
Fri May-22-20 08:29 PM

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78. "RE: Do you understand the concept of equality and &amp;quot;fairness&amp..."
In response to Reply # 77


          

>And just because other people are doing it and getting away
>with it , that gives her the right to fuck people over as
>well?
>
>I don’t get your logic here



I'm not talking about other people outside the culture.
Puffy and Wyclef were mentioned. They're black too.
Do you ever go this hard at them? You didn't when they were mentioned.
You're going harder at Lauryn than any black male.
I asked you why.
If the logic isn't clear now, it's because you don't wanna answer the question.

~
~
~
~
~
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtNhsGgEk54
Everything's turning out perfectly

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
1865 posts
Fri May-22-20 09:03 PM

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79. "RE: Do you understand the concept of equality and &amp;quot;fairness&amp..."
In response to Reply # 78


          

I’m against them, too. I don’t support them either. I’m not a puffy fan. I was in the corner of jada kiss, mase, loon, etc, hoping that they get what they rightfully deserve from making music on bad boy.

But they are not the subject on hand .

There is no sexism with me. I’m over on the sports board going hard at Jordan for his inhuman behavior, being a scumbag towards people ,and for putting out a bullshit documentary.

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
34127 posts
Fri May-22-20 09:38 PM

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84. "sorry to break it to you, but that's the entire music industry"
In response to Reply # 68
Fri May-22-20 09:38 PM by Damali

          

it always has been

Berry Gordy
Quincy Jones
Prince
Michael Jackson
Baby Face
Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis


they ALL did that shit...hella brazenly with no shame

Please.

let a Black woman do the same shit men been doing for ages, even while using the rules they created, then y'all want to cry for fucking ever about it

fuck that and fuck Robert Glasper too

d

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
1865 posts
Fri May-22-20 09:58 PM

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85. "RE: sorry to break it to you, but that's the entire music industry"
In response to Reply # 84


          

Lol

  

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justin_scott
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Sat May-23-20 04:44 AM

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87. "when you're wrong and can't admit it"
In response to Reply # 85


          

you just respond with an "lol" because you can't respond with facts. it's completely lazy.

************************************************************

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
1865 posts
Sat May-23-20 09:02 AM

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91. "RE: when you're wrong and can't admit it"
In response to Reply # 87
Sat May-23-20 09:04 AM by allStah

          

I laughed because it has nothing to do with the subject or what is being discussed.

The subject is that artists are suing her so that they can credit and get paid for the music that they wrote and produced. I’m not trying to have an argument about sexism in the industry.

Whether man or woman, you’re not supposed to fuck people over and steal their music.

And that’s not the way things are. That’s the way people decide to do things. What man makes man can unmake. There is always a choice. And there are people in the industry who do things the right way.

I don’t give a fock if it’s lauryn hill ,puffy or whoever, don’t steal, and when you get sued do try to play the victim.

  

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mind_grapes
Member since Nov 13th 2007
883 posts
Fri May-22-20 10:11 PM

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86. "agreed"
In response to Reply # 84


          

>fuck robert glasper

I think Ms. Hill is a genius. To quote Method Man, "Half these critics ain't got half the skill." Nor are they educated enough to even appreciate the full scope of her artistry. Now do I think that being exceptionally talented justifies intentionally shitty behavior towards others...no. But I also agree that life is messy and we don't know why people do the things they do or what actually happened behind the scenes. So in the absence of this information, it's easy to misattribute the intentions of others to malice or even mental illness.

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
34127 posts
Sun May-24-20 12:04 PM

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102. "exactly. none of us were there"
In response to Reply # 86
Sun May-24-20 12:05 PM by Damali

          

and even those that were can be biased in the telling of things based on their own personal agenda

either way, she paid the price for it and moved on. meanwhile, there are those that got away with the same shit but yet we still throwing darts at LBoogie

d

  

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Mori
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Sat May-23-20 08:07 AM

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89. "Yep!!! "
In response to Reply # 84


          

I hope a black woman musical scholar, expert or someone does an expose on sexism. Even Toure's white women loving ass took pride in tearing down Lauryn Hill in a white publication.

In my personal experience, black men at the top resent beautiful, dark skinned, black successful women. It reminds some black men of their inadequacy and dependance on white supremacy to feel important, which is why so many race to white /light skinned women to feel like they arrived.

Sexism is rampant in music and unless you are bowing down to get fucked, used, embarrassed or sell records, black men will use up these women and toss them out.

Lauryn Hill will always be a winner for holding her own as best as she could in this cut throat industry.

Rise & Shine
Thrive & Grind
Heart & Mind

  

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Ray_Snill
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Sat May-23-20 01:19 PM

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99. "Wyclef is not a good example"
In response to Reply # 64


  

          

I got a dude that engineers for him and Jerry Wonder and Clef plays guitar, bass, keys, samples and DJs so if Clef has someone on perform on a track it's because he wanted them and didn't need them.



<=========================================
https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/PYzh4v9cSf4FDnq3yMQyqNqh79o=/800x0/filters:no_upscale%28%29/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/4079674/jlio.0.gif

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
12366 posts
Sun May-24-20 08:00 PM

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104. "Yeah, that's worth pointing out."
In response to Reply # 99


          

I got the point he was making, but Wyclef didn't deserve to be part of the example.

~
~
~
~
~
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtNhsGgEk54
Everything's turning out perfectly

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
65394 posts
Sun May-24-20 10:21 PM

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106. "Gotcha. I didn’t have hard evidence, was just speculating. "
In response to Reply # 99


          

I know he “plays” instruments but I thought he still had a team of session musicians

shut up already, damn

  

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mind_grapes
Member since Nov 13th 2007
883 posts
Fri May-22-20 06:18 PM

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74. "She became less interested in making commercial art"
In response to Reply # 0


          

and wanted to use her platform and music to critique consumerism and colonialism. She even narrated portions of Fanon's Wretched of The Earth for a documentary on African independence in the 50s, 60s, and 70s. The few songs she has released are clearly influenced by critical theory and marxism, including references to people like Herbert Marcuse.

She also works a lot more with African artists. Here is a snippet of a song by Komi she did a feature on.

https://soundcloud.com/user-958395111/komisnippet-ms-lauryn-hill-ko-jo-cue-produced-by-juls

  

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double 0
Member since Nov 17th 2004
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Sat May-23-20 10:28 AM

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92. "just to add a little tidbit of industry info"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Written credit in album art is a courtesy not ruled under any law.

The only thing that is ruled under the law is the copyright ownership %'s, publishing, mechanicals, and all that backend good stuff.

So as long as your publishing, contracts, etc are straight no one ever has to "legally" give you written credit in an album.

Where a lot of confusion comes IMO in situations like this is session musicians are considered (work-for-hire). They come in, get paid hourly and own nothing.

Anyone could be treated as a session musician including a "beat maker" if they wanted to.

Many times the issues around "credit" or "stealing" come in the unsaid confusion between a work-for-hire musician and a true collaborator. And oftentimes many people don't discuss what should be happening upfront until after the fact.

And of course the power dynamic also plays a role in the confusion.

Clyde Stubblefield is a perfect exampled of this. He was James Browns drummer and his sound is essential to hip hop breaks but he was a session musician and was paid a day rate and therefore all his ideas/contributions are owned by James Brown and or whomever owns the masters and publishing.

on the flip side Kanye is the best at this. Ironically Che Pope who ran good music for a minute AND was "one of those Miseducation producers" was great about giving pub and credit to damn near everyone in the room during the process.




Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
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twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

  

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mind_grapes
Member since Nov 13th 2007
883 posts
Sat May-23-20 10:55 AM

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93. "Yeah, Che talks about there being an A-team and a B-team"
In response to Reply # 92


          

in terms of the musicians that worked on Miseducation. Him and James Poyser were much more established musicians/producers (aka the A team). The New Arc musicians were people she grew up around and recruited. They didn't realize how little they were actually credited until Sony was finalizing the album release. Che said he could have joined the lawsuit, but missed his chance. He also said that he had already worked with other musicians like Teddy Riley and Wyclef and knew how shady the business side of recording was. Che has since said that musicians don't get taken advantage of by others; they *let* themselves get taken advantage of by not understanding what they have already signed away.

Plus, if other artists think you are a greedy session musician than they will not want to work with you. I think Missy Elliot canceled upcoming sessions with some of these New Arc guys after the lawsuit broke. None of those guys have really done anything else of note besides the Miseducation; aside from the one guy who was an A&R or manager for Rhianna around the time of Pon De Replay.

  

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Trinity444
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Sat May-23-20 11:27 AM

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96. "I’ve been waiting on you..."
In response to Reply # 93


  

          

...

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
1865 posts
Sat May-23-20 11:20 AM

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94. "Uh, no"
In response to Reply # 92
Sat May-23-20 11:33 AM by allStah

          

That wasn't the situation with Lauryn. She was sued by 4 music arrangers
who produced and arranged all the songs on her album. She was forced to settle, because they had proof that they produced everything, and Lauryn took credit for it.

They were suing her for partial credit on 13 of the 14 songs on the album! And like I said, she had to settle.

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/lauryn-hill-settles-lawsuit-251366/

And she is still facing a lawsuit from another musician for one of the songs on the album...not sure if that is still on the table


And producing/arranging and being a session musician are not in the same arena. A session musician is brought in to play for certain parts on a song or for many different parts on a song on one or several songs, and they do it by the hour, or per song, or per session, depending on what their rates are. The cats that sued did way more than that, they arranged, the produced, etc.


  

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Trinity444
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Sat May-23-20 11:26 AM

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95. "thank you..."
In response to Reply # 92


  

          

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
34127 posts
Sun May-24-20 12:00 PM

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101. "thank you for this."
In response to Reply # 92


          

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
12366 posts
Sun May-24-20 07:54 PM

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103. "I have to say..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

Granted, she was sued by contributors who allege that she stole their work, but who wrote Unplugged? I know some couldn't get past the amateurish guitar playing, but those songs were really strong (those are still my favorite songs of hers). When you listen to that album, you realize the only thing that's lacking is polished production. I can believe she didn't create the musical arrangements behind the songs on Miseducation, but her signature is all over the songwriting. People who say she "stole the songs" are obviously going overboard. Mofo in here really said all she could do was rap and harmonize as if she wasn't still writing great songs AFTER Miseducation. Let's also not forget that she was pretty much universally regarded as the best emcee of a 10x platinum group already. But yeah... songwriting. The woman has that talent, and she's proven it.

~
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~
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtNhsGgEk54
Everything's turning out perfectly

  

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obsidianchrysalis
Member since Jan 29th 2003
7426 posts
Sun May-24-20 09:16 PM

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105. "There's a podcast documentary about TMOLH and Lauryn"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

If you search for Dissect podcast, you can find a 8 part documentary series about the artistic themes of Miseducation. It also features some back story about the lawsuit and her personal life.

It's worth a listen, even if you aren't a major fan of the album.

<--- Me when my head hits the pillow

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
14968 posts
Fri May-29-20 12:14 PM

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107. "^ J.PERIOD Presents The Live Mixtape: Ms. Lauryn Hill Edition [Live Broa..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

https://www.mixcloud.com/jperiod/jperiod-presents-the-live-mixtape-ms-lauryn-hill-edition-live-broadcast-version/?utm_campaign=notification_new_upload&utm_medium=email&utm_source=notification&utm_content=html

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If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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