I am listening to Unplugged right now and, ya know, it is just so very unpolished and it has me thinking...

Man she really was on top of the world when Miseducation dropped and was so inspiring and awesome and then she took time off, started being late to many concerts, and thought knowing three chords on guitar and having a raspy voice was okay.

Was it really drugs? Was she actually crazy?

What really happened?

I'm shocked NOBODY tried to get her to put out a new album

there's probably plenty of artists/producers who'd like to work with her even after all the stories that have come out about how she allegedly treats people

I still remember cutting class to go buy it, opening up the credits thinking and thinking, "Fuck she did all of this by herself?"

... are the credits really like "All instruments and production and singing and rapping and engineering and ... by Ms. Hill" ?

I'm being sensational with the above obviously but are the credits as bad as people have been saying all these years ? I suppose I could just look them up but


>I still remember cutting class to go buy it, opening up the
>credits thinking and thinking, "Fuck she did all of this by
>herself?"

I was 15 when that shit first came out. I was convinced she was the greatest ever

But at that age I wasn't as invested in reading full album credits, but at the same time I understood - on some level at least - that music is largely collaborative. So I don't think I ever presumed that she did *everything* on Miseducation.

like, when some contributes. was it an issue when miseducation dropped?

she got sued

Every song except "Lost Ones" lists her as the sole producer (Vada Nobles shares production credit on that one).
A few songs list other writers, but that's it.

>... are the credits really like "All instruments and
>production and singing and rapping and engineering and ... by
>Ms. Hill" ?

I do remember thinking it was truly amazing at the time when I read it, but ya know it just doesn't make sense looking back of course, and that's not even taking into account all the New Ark law suits and things...

I wonder if feeling like Wyclef was the leader and decision maker in the Fugees made her feel like she had to make it look like she was the 100% mastermind behind everything involving her debut...

If that's the case, that sucks, there should in theory be nothing wrong with admitting it takes a village to write a masterpiece of an album.

Collaboration should be celebrated, not silenced!

I'm trying to find the interview, but Pras explained it really well. Nowadays credits are really long on songs because anyone who had any minor input gets put on there. This is to prevent some of the legal headache from the past. Lauryn wrote all those songs in terms of lyrics and melody and others came in to help with instrumentation. She was young and didn't understand that a lot of the legal paperwork re: who did what needed to get sorted from the start. I think the record label also pushed to have it say that she did everything.

I can’t understand how people can listen to that album and still call her crazy. nothing is crazy about not wanting fame anymore.

"Get ready....for your blessing....."
"Bury me by my Grand-Grand and when you can come follow me"

that a hard listen. I doubt most folks got into the lyrics. some folks liked it, but most folks thought it sucked. I listened once.

from what I remember, she wasn't into be controlled to be part of that machine any more. I don't think that's the full story tho. seems like that was just the beginning. we'll likely never know.

she started being destructive to her career. no showing or showing up 3 hours later doesn't say control to me. its says the opposite.

and that's where she said everything about being uncomfortable with fame. It wasn't metaphorical either. It was extremely straightforward. Fans of Lauren saw or at least heard it once.

Now if people don't buy what she was saying and think there was more to it, ok... I how one could come to that conclusion. Her declaration that she was breaking out of social norms and unspoken obligations was very clear on the Unplugged performance tho.

...but reality is what they need...And I’ve just retired fantasy part”, I think it was right before “Adam Lives in Theory”.

I guess what I’m getting at is sure retiring from the fantasy part is not always looking perfectly on trend fashion wise with the perfectly manicured hair, the Lauryn with the cute outfits and perfect locs has been replaced by a natural and wear old lady clothes to try to have people focus on I don’t know the music I guess? And not her fashion choices because that’s fantasy?

If that’s what she was just rocking with fine.

But the three hours late to gigs, sounding very unrehearsed, and just starting to be very unprofessional when it comes to live shows, that’s not as easily explained away by just dropping the fantasy part.

That’s some deeper and more problematic thing and that’s what I’m trying to figure out.

And no before someone tries to explain it as such lol, it’s not as simple as “she is displaying the reality of being 3 hours late for a gig, that’s her truth let her live in it” lol.

>...but reality is what they need...And I’ve just retired
>fantasy part”, I think it was right before “Adam Lives in
>Theory”.
>
>I guess what I’m getting at is sure retiring from the
>fantasy part is not always looking perfectly on trend fashion
>wise with the perfectly manicured hair, the Lauryn with the
>cute outfits and perfect locs has been replaced by a natural
>and wear old lady clothes to try to have people focus on I
>don’t know the music I guess? And not her fashion choices
>because that’s fantasy?



What always comes to mind for me was when she was talking about holding your belly in and finally saying 'fuck it' and just relaxing and letting it poke out a lil bit lol. That and the part about being at Disney World where it's all pretty in the front while you having people slaving in the back in harsh conditions.



>If that’s what she was just rocking with fine.
>
>But the three hours late to gigs, sounding very unrehearsed,
>and just starting to be very unprofessional when it comes to
>live shows, that’s not as easily explained away by just
>dropping the fantasy part.
>
>That’s some deeper and more problematic thing and that’s
>what I’m trying to figure out.



I totally get what you mean. I used to wonder if there was something done to her after that speech she gave at the Vatican.
The whole being 3 hrs late and stuff is really hard to explain.


>And no before someone tries to explain it as such lol, it’s
>not as simple as “she is displaying the reality of being 3
>hours late for a gig, that’s her truth let her live in it”
>lol.



Lol. I mean, I guess that *could* be part of her idea of breaking out of the confines of social norms, since that's literally what it would be. If the idea is doing things for herself and not keeping other people happy, she's doing a great job at the 2nd part. It could go really deep, back to some childhood trauma and spending her whole life trying to please other people. Maybe that's what made her great in the first place, in the vein of a Michael Jackson. Who knows.
It's like when ppl are trying to stop caring what others think, so they just do any wild thing that will make ppl look a them crazy, just as a way of thickening their skin. I figure maybe she's just totally disregarding whatever would please others as a way of getting comfortable with how that feels, b/c maybe she never knew what it felt like to think of herself first. Just hope she finds peace and can "Come Back To The Middle" as India.Arie put it.

>It's like when ppl are trying to stop caring what others
>think, so they just do any wild thing that will make ppl look
>a them crazy, just as a way of thickening their skin.

Somehow this point reminded me of Richard Williams, who at one point said he was out there acting crazy and saying wild things in the press so that the negative attention was pulled away from Serena and Venus as they were more and more famous, so that they could just focus on being great at playing tennis and he was fine with the bad press for himself just as long as it helped to shield them from it.

Makes me wonder if somehow someway Lauryn is trying to have all the attention go toward everything but new music is her way to somehow maybe create new stuff in peace?

Or maybe as you said she is just being her true authentic self, doing things for herself and that includes being on maximum strength CP time forever and always lol...

You would think if the latter she eventually would get tired of the bad press and ticket sales declining and all that stuff but who knows everyone is different I guess lol

>Makes me wonder if somehow someway Lauryn is trying to have
>all the attention go toward everything but new music is her
>way to somehow maybe create new stuff in peace?


Hmm... that could be it too. That's kinda brilliant.


>Or maybe as you said she is just being her true authentic
>self, doing things for herself and that includes being on
>maximum strength CP time forever and always lol...
>


"maximum strength CP" 😂😂🤣🤣

that's been a bunch of moons ago. it may have started with wanting break the fame norms, which I totally understand.

however, the other stuff regarding how she treats musicians, the way she handles shows, etc., appear to be self-sabotage. I get wanting to control the narrative and not living everyone else's fantasy. that fame monster doesn't work for everyone. isn't healthy for many. her way of handling things doesn't seem to healthy either. admittedly, I'm speaking out of turn. I stopped following the stories on her several years ago.

I just hope she and her fam are happy. whatever that means for her.

if you’re not listening to the lyrics or think it’s sucks. We hear directly from her how everything stopped for her. Try to imagine if all your business was in the streets. How easy would it be for you to show up at work everyday?

on the daily. I don't subscribe to that. none of us have any idea what her mental state is. never did.

I'm saying it may have started out with what she said that there, but that has little to do with her being late, stealing credits, not paying musicians. all of that says dishonest, at the least.

entertainer's business is always out there. that's the nature of the beast. that's no excuse for not doing what you agreed to do. you sign a contract to show up at 8 and you hit the stage before midnight? nah. I'm not gonna let you keep wasting my time. that's on me.

sure, late happens, but not at the level she does it. its dishonest to the folks that actually want to support her. the folks that would bop to new shit if she dropped it, even if its wack. I'm not going to keep supporting with my time and money if you can't hold up your end of the deal.

tell me the last time you heard Bey, Jay, Nikki, Megan, Wyclef, Erykah, Jill, or anyone else not doing that work because their business was in the streets. that's not how that works.

I root for Lauryn. always have. I want her to win. I'm good with the music she's put out and shows I witnessed. However, I can't keep supporting with my time and money.

"Get ready....for your blessing....."
"Bury me by my Grand-Grand and when you can come follow me"

she said she was feeling like she had to get glammed up just to go around the corner to the store and was having trouble dealing with the new levels of fame and attention. So as a result she withdrew and went in the opposite direction becoming somewhat of a recluse.

This girl stole Miseducation out of some dude's bookbag and gave it to me and I don't like the majority of it. I actually like the Unplugged a lot more.

I'll take her Essence Awards performance of "Adam Lives in Theory" over anything she's done.

>I'll take her Essence Awards performance of "Adam Lives in
>Theory" over anything she's done.

Yes!!!!!

Why she isn't releasing any of the songs is a good question when you got a crew of musicians, engineers, writers, producers, & etc working on music for over 10 years is beyond me.

She & a few others got people signing over all rights to her and her legal people, and usually have to keep a hush hush as to what goes down there but yeah she is sitting on a vault of music; but the same situation is going on, she takes all credit while letting everyone else do what they want and.... .

I knew she was batty from jump but nobody ever paid attention until things leaked about how she gets down .

https://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=13384927&mesg_id=13384927&page=#13384934



"Get ready....for your blessing....."
"Bury me by my Grand-Grand and when you can come follow me"

the people who actually paint and make Jeff Koon's art, for example, do not have any expectation of ownership. And if you are the artist and are upfront with what the working conditions will be, then your workers can either agree or move on to something else. Like if I think the melody and lyrics are what constitute songwriting, then I would want all of my studio musicians and producers to know upfront that I think adding chord inversions, riffs, or spicing up the arrangement would fall under mechanical rights or something (depending on how much of those contributions end up on the actual recording).

Moreover, an artist might be open to suggestions on changing up words, but that doesn't mean you're a songwriter. It would be like if an author included all of the people who gave edits and suggestions on their manuscript in the final list of authors. Some people like Kanye will credit everyone in the room during studio sessions, while others wil argue that without them overseeing their project then none of those other contributions would happen without your original demos or outlines of what you ultimately want.

In Ms. Hill's case, her record label created really shitty contracts that the musicians she was working with had signed (because most of them didnt know better). The record label then pushed her to settle out of court to protect their own control over her master recording. Most professional session musicians routinely contribute crucial parts of songs that they never get credited for. If she had taken this to court AND these musicians really did sign away their contributions, then there is a good chance she would have won. But I am not an entertainment lawyer. And I also do not know her or these musicians. So maybe someone else on here would be better able to speak on this stuff.

i really appreciate you taking the time to write that out because most people love the soundbite story of "she stole from musicians" and don't bother w/anything else.

life is rarely neat and tidy.

d

"Get ready....for your blessing....."
"Bury me by my Grand-Grand and when you can come follow me"

First baby daddy couldn't be named. 
She was told to abort her babies or else she would ruin her
career.
She got with a Marley who cheated on her with her assistant.
Then she still had to raise these kids on her salary, income
etc...

Some women choose motherhood over career. I feel it now at my
lowly office worker status. Friends calling me to brag about
their trips to European beaches and promotions. I am just
waking up to make french toast sticks and color my Little
Pony.

Not every woman, especially black women, want to work. Being a
parent or a family person is a huge calling and demand. I
don't know who supports Lauryn, but it doesn't seem like she
has a Steadman-type figure holding down the fort. 

Being a black mother is WORK. 

I'm almost on the other side of it and i'm EXHAUSTED

they are emerging adults..22 and 24, and i'm doing my best to
provide a stable foundation from which they can save up and
make plans to forge their own path, which theyre both doing,
but i can't wait to just be on my own.

it will be the first time ever for me...before them, i  was
always in a relationship...i can't wait to be ALONE for a good
5 years, at least.

d

Not errybody wants to stay under that bright light

I haven't listened to Miseducation in years and never heard the Unplugged, so I can't speak on that side but I don't give a fuck WHO you are, if you show up hours late over and over and OVER again to shows...you can fuck off

the miseducation Lauryn long been gone.

I also think part of her delays had to do with being forced to perform. didn’t she have to honor a contract or something?

I lost interest in the artist Lauryn Hill years ago.

And spoke to her showing up late to shows...

20 years ago me was not ready

It definitely cut deep even then

I'll have to revisit

I remember her talking about not being perfect vocally, wanting to keep some of the imperfections in her singing...and being pushed in the studio to do it over and over and over again

Look a certain way
Sound a certain way
Act a certain way

She pretty much laid out the reason for stepping away...she wasn't for the bullshit

If people really want to know what happened with her personally...I agree...it's in the unplugged album

for back taxes...?

I was fortunate enough to see her a few times before the issues

Wasn't a problem.

When the money compromised her desire to remain private...yeah, she didn't really GAF.

Cheers to Andre for having his finances together

Didn't say they were exactly the same...but the same sentiment for stepping away.

but log in and post multiple replies

You're doing it wrong.

Iono tho. People waiting hours because they love your music and you just late because you don’t want to pay bills?

I think folks get it twisted because artist and actresses are paid big money. But it’s still a job. You have to show up.

but I also get the frustration of doing shows you aren’t paid for.

Hell.. I remember OutKast telling us in college they didn’t get paid for a huge show in DC for the radio station because they threatened not to play their music if they didn’t perform for free... and the DC area is usually the top market for record sales for artist back then so they played that show and were mad bitter afterwards.

which brings me to JayZ “you won’t play my hits? Well I don’t give a shit”

“ Music was my love and because everything I thought that had to accompany my music, it became my burden. It just got stolen from me. What is this? something I loved so much so quickly and so easily became something I loathe and hate. So now... I understand now it’s because I was measuring...comparing myself to a standard that wasn’t reality. ” Ms. Hill

I’m not making excuses for her, but try to imagine going to a job you hate and you can’t quit!

I hate the idea that former fans think she’s just shitting on people.

and I also had jobs I hated that I still had to wake up and go to even though I didn’t want to be there.

My thing tho is her fans were so loyal and she treated them like shit at times. Be mad at the people in power but don’t punish the fans who pay good money for shows.

It's very clear to me she had a breakdown. I get that. I also know that she only started doing shows again because she had a huge tax debt that she had to pay. She didn't really want to be doing it, but she had to.

All of that, however, still makes it hard to forgive or excuse the absolutely abhorrent way she behaved and treated her fans. 3 and 4 hours late... no-shows.... berating fans who had the audacity to challenge her or be upset at the shitty treatment...

... I feel bad for what she's dealing with, but there was an entitlement to her behavior that is not OK. Those that keep going to her shows and supporting her deserve what they get. I opted out years ago.

She doesn't have to do anything else. She is our generation's
Nina Simone. She shifted consciousness, beauty and was the
last successful dark skinned, nappy headed, dread-loced,
beautiful black woman to take the world by storm. 

After Lauryn, things shifted to light skinned, biracial,
racially ambiguous, sexual singers. 


There has not been a black looking artist to reach her heights
since that era. 

She doesn't need to do anything else .

But she never did anything to begin with....
others did it and she stole it, which is why she can't
replicate it on record or live. 

Lauryn inspired many. a reasonable person would never deny her
contribution to hip hop. 

reasonable?

stealing is contributing? 


This is how slave shit starts, because we do it to ourselves
first. We steal from each other, so the white man comes in and
steals our shit....because they are like hell they do it to
each other, which is why we also lost hip hip like we lost
rock and roll. 

Wyclef wrote and trained her how to rhyme on all the fugees
albums, and then tons of musicians wrote and produced
Miseducation. 

Please focus on the real women who really contributed to music
as a musician.  I know people hate A.Keys, but at least she
wrote, produced and actually knows how to play an instrument. 


But people don't really care about facts and the truth...as
long as sounds and look good, so carry on. 

I don't remember another artist having a positive non sexual
impact on black women artists since Lauryn Hill. I don't know
if this generation is more hungry for sexualizing black women
in music but I notice this trend and it is VERY disturbing. 

I am far from a prude but I remember little kids lining up to
meet Lauryn Hill and seeing a full lipped dark skinned woman
at the top was very encouraging. 

Since her, EVERY single famous singer has slutted themselves
out to stay famous. Alicia Keys might be the only one who has
not done anything provocative to stay afloat.

Now, every famous black singer MUST talk about sucking dick,
fucking and something associated with semen to stay famous.
Rapper, singer, mother, performer- it doesn't matter.

I stan for Lauryn for choosing her own integrity over becoming
whatever we call these peformers/sex workers today. 

What? I'm confused ...everyone after Hill has slut'd
themselves?  

Badu
Jill Scott
Her
Res
Goaple
Amel Larrieux 
Esperanza spalding
Norah JOnes, etc, etc, etc 

Lauryn won Grammy's, cover of Rolling Stone magazine. She had
a big machine behind her. Selling out tours globally.

The artists you mentioned are niche, culturally neo soul
bound. Even most that you mentioned are not dark skinned women
who defy European beauty stereotypes. 

Lauryn carved out a new identity that no one has yet really
met in terms of success and positive imagery of dark skinned
black women. 

not to say she’s perfect but I’ll never believe any of the
rumors about her. I’ll wait for her to address it in her
music...like, she did on Unplugged. 

If there’s never any music 
I can live with that too
she’s already gifted me...

/

Rapsody tho...
I can see her doing what lauryn did 

good lord. 

badu and scott are niche artists?


Scott and Badu have more talent in  their pinky than Hill will
ever have in her life. Hill has no vocal range that can even
compare to those two ladies....and quest will tell you that. 

and Scott and badu have all won and have been nominated for
grammys in different years for different records!

and guess what?  they wrote and sang their own music. 

seriously?

I didn't know that Jill Scott was not popular until I went to
a white university. Some people heard of Erykah Badu but
couldn't name one song. Jill Scott has never had a crossover
hit. 

Lauryn Hill, every single person I know either had the album
or know her songs, across ALL races. 

The other artists are good but no mass appeal. Still I am
hanging on to the colorism angle. A huge issue for me in the
present day music industry.

human beings are sexual and art is self-expression.

if that's what anyone wants to put forth in their art, that
does not make them less worthy...ESPECIALLY women

we bring forth LIFE through our bodies and sex is the
conduit...it brings pleasure and life. 

so motherfucking yes we get to talk about all that shit or not
and none of us are the better or worse for it

oh and sucking black dick is a beautiful thing.

d

Not ONE black male artist in the 2000's has ever gotten super
famous talking about how much he loves black women. 

EVERY black male musician who degrades and disrespects black
women is in the top 10. We can look at billboard, record
sales, streams etc..

EVER black FEmale musician who succumbs to black male
degradation skyrockets to the top.

Every white/latino-adjacent artist who talks about loving each
other skyrockets.

Something is wrong when our music, the one powerful tool we
have, is used to hypnotically tell us that "sucking black
dicks" is a beautiful thing to our children, girls and
young men. 

Call me Delores Tucker, but I think black music today is VERY
toxic, sexually perverse and specifically geared to black
women feeling less than. Black men have already successfully
sold their souls to white women, drugs, depression and
suicide. Black women are the last group holding on and defying
the odds. 

Lauryn Hill represents a time and place in black music where
black women were revered beyond cold, distant abusive sex. 
Shitty argument or not, this music trend is something that
will get worse.

>Not ONE black male artist in the 2000's has ever gotten
super
>famous talking about how much he loves black women. 

see you're already moving the goalposts. your complaint about
the women is that they are rapping about sex...men have always
rapped about sex but now you changing it to "talking
about how much he loves black women"

so nope. i'm not wasting my breath on folks who don't know how
to stay on topic and just wanna spout random sexist
generalizations. 

peace out.

d

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She really wasn't/isn't that good. She got lazy when she realized that she had to really put in the work and time to become a true musician and singer.

Nowhere near the level of a Nina Simone or Aretha Franklin. But she was gassed and thought that she was. She simply had the ability to harmonize and rap.

Plus she stole a lot of her music, and she didn't write or produce the music for Miseducation. So her glory and accomplishments are based on the true and hard work of others.

Robert Glasper on Hill:

You've already stolen all of my friends' music. Miseducation was made by great musicians and producers that I know personally. You got a big hand off of music you didn't even write," the multi-Grammy Award winner says. "Those songs were written by other people and they did not get their credit."


"She likes to take credit so she can become this super person. If you're a super person, and you're that talented, do it. You feel me? She couldn't tune her guitar in rehearsal," he adds of the 2008 gig. "You haven't done enough to be the way you are. You just have not. The one thing you did that was great, you didn't do."

I watched his interview where he went in on her and at first was like "Damn he has some good points"

and then Lauryn responded, I think she posted an article on Medium or something, and she had the excellent point of "Ok Robert, you are going in on me for stealing your friends songs and being this and that then why did you agree to the gig when my manager reached out?

If I was that bad and did all those things wanting to still work with me when I did that to your friends is off, no?"

While that doesn't negate all the things she did I thought it did take the wind out of the sails of Robert's salty ass points lol...

And Robert was a successful musician at that point (I remember he said Lauryn's manager wanted him to audition to be her piano player for their one-off gig, and he was like nah you can listen to my CDs I already put out though lmao) so it wasn't about "he's a struggling musician that can't afford to say no to gigs based on principle alone"...

Robert is not the only one chiming this.

It has been stated by others as well.

Why do you think her concerts suck, and her guitar playing is even worse? And why do you think she hasn't made anything else, because she didn't write or make the music her first album.

Once the word got out about her, it was a wrap. She is simply living off the fame of one album.

I could see if she were MF DOOM, who we all know is dope as fuck, and just likes to piss people off at his shows, by not showing up.

But Lauryn is simply not talented in the since of being a real musician and real singer.

The crazy thing is that people keep going to her shows only to have the same shitty experience....so I giver her credit for that. She is able to get paid off the gullible minds of others.

Chick to credit for ever production aspect on her album : engineer, writer, producer, etc...yeah she took credit for engineering, when you know damn well she does not know how to work a mixing board or mix sound.

its one thing to hear it from others. even close friends. but seems like he wanted to see it with his own eyes.

His manager was like.. “why would you work with him? It’s a waste of time”

Will.i.am: nigga, it’s Michael Jackson!

I think Glasper wanted to work with Lauryn Hill because it’s Lauryn fucking Hill!

Lauren
D'Angelo
Mos Def/Yasiin
and to an extent, Erykah

they all seem to have a kindred vibe. Maybe it's being uncomfortable with being blessed with that much brilliance and finding it difficult to be seen/vulnerable at a that level. But, they all seem to also be the folks who reject playing the game. These are also the "artists" - i mean, sure, all musicians are artists, but I would put these folks in a different bucket. Integrity is higher than all other accolades.

Erykah is different in that shes managed to balance out things. She plays the game but still manages to stay true to her vision.

I'll have to think about it a bit.

Which I’m cool with..

If you can have a comfortable life without punching a clock while doing your thing why wouldn’t you?

My only criticism with any of these artist is janky shows. Don’t put on a janky show for people who put you on a pedestal.

Besides that.. do what the fuck you want to do with your life.

she was following a weird spiritual leader, so obviously she was searching for some kind of peace

> Erykah is different in that shes managed to balance out things. She plays the game but still manages to stay true to her vision

Yo i was just thinking about this recently. When you look at those other people in her cohort, it's clear that fame and the industry and all that BS can really crush a person. Most people on that spiritual tip couldn't take it past an album or two. I think that speaks a lot about Erykah's strength. She can be this highly spiritual being and still have a long career in the music industry and in the public eye. It's really remarkable and inspiring. I'm sure she she sees the evil just like the others do, but maybe she just floats above it? Idk

listed a number of issues

-she wasn't sure who the father of her first child was, could have been wyclef
-people who worked on her 1st album sued her because they didn't get credit, she felt betrayed
-she was following some weird guru spiritual leader in Jamaica
-she had an obsession with Bob Marley: having his grand kids even though the Rohan Marley didn't marry her.
-felt like a hypocrite for some of her lyrics about women dressing a certain way but she did that to sell records..

anyone have the link to that article?

later on she had IRS issues.
and she can't perform her original song because of being sued, so she only performs weird mixes. so she has to perform to make money but probably doesn't want to anymore

>-people who worked on her 1st album sued her because they
>didn't get credit, she felt betrayed

LOL. She stole music, mofos sued....Her take is comical


and she shouldn't be allowed to perform the original songs, because she didn't make them...So I am glad there is a block on that. She shouldn't be allowed to profit off the work of your own brothers and sisters who you don't want to pay or give credit to.

are able to get away with..

She just didn’t understand the game or do it the right way.

Puffy turns one knob and he’s a producer on a track. Wyclef had a team I believe but he got lost of the credit. Now, what we don’t know is how these dudes handled their shit with songwriters. Maybe he broke them off or paid for their publishing?

Ionno. Maybe she was just sloppy with that part.

But let’s not act like Hill was the first one to take credit for songs she didn’t write. It happens all the time.

I appreciate you pointing out sexism in the hip hop industry. Black women have gotten the raw end in many deals. I think the new generation has shifted its tone to reflect a combative approach to success. Which is why I like Cardi B.

I think people learned from Lauryn Hill even her "failures" have helped shape the black entertainment industry.

I hate when some black men love to find a villain in a successful Black woman over one mistep. Robert Glasper was terrible airing her out like that. But he gave him clout.

That ain’t got nothing to do with her lying about music she didn’t make or write, and stealing credit for it.

Man or woman, it is wrong all the way around. I don’t feel sorry for someone who is taking money and food out of artists mouth.

It not about not liking her. I don't know her to not like her. It's just its a problem when someone steals another person's creativity and takes credit for it, and then makes it appears as if he or she is being betrayed or victimized

To see somewhat play the victim, when that person is the one who is ripping people off, tells you a lot about that person.

People are simply saying everyone should be treated the same. If you going this hard at Lauryn, why do you not go this hard at other artists who've done the same thing?

You in this post talking about "this how slave shit starts" and the white man...
But you're doing the same shit white people do when we say a black person shouldn't get harsher sentencing than white people for the same crimes. White folks say "well they shouldn't have committed the crime at all!" when the point is equal sentencing. You're saying "but she shouldn't have done it at all!"
You're coming down harder on Lauryn for the same offense that others (mostly men) have committed. Why?

Equality and fairness?

I’m thinking about the black artists who aren’t getting paid or credit for their work. That’s who I’m thinking about. That’s the equality and fairness that I’m focused on.

And who would you be mad at more, someone outside of your ethnicity fucking you over, or you own people fucking you over?

And just because other people are doing it and getting away with it , that gives her the right to fuck people over as well?

I don’t get your logic here

Simply put , she stole music. She is being sued, and hopefully those artists win so they can get credit and get paid.

Who wouldn’t want that?

>And just because other people are doing it and getting away
>with it , that gives her the right to fuck people over as
>well?
>
>I don’t get your logic here



I'm not talking about other people outside the culture.
Puffy and Wyclef were mentioned. They're black too.
Do you ever go this hard at them? You didn't when they were mentioned.
You're going harder at Lauryn than any black male.
I asked you why.
If the logic isn't clear now, it's because you don't wanna answer the question.

I’m against them, too. I don’t support them either. I’m not a puffy fan. I was in the corner of jada kiss, mase, loon, etc, hoping that they get what they rightfully deserve from making music on bad boy.

But they are not the subject on hand .

There is no sexism with me. I’m over on the sports board going hard at Jordan for his inhuman behavior, being a scumbag towards people ,and for putting out a bullshit documentary.

it always has been

Berry Gordy
Quincy Jones
Prince
Michael Jackson
Baby Face
Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis


they ALL did that shit...hella brazenly with no shame

Please.

let a Black woman do the same shit men been doing for ages, even while using the rules they created, then y'all want to cry for fucking ever about it

fuck that and fuck Robert Glasper too

d

Lol

you just respond with an "lol" because you can't respond with facts. it's completely lazy.

I laughed because it has nothing to do with the subject or what is being discussed.

The subject is that artists are suing her so that they can credit and get paid for the music that they wrote and produced. I’m not trying to have an argument about sexism in the industry.

Whether man or woman, you’re not supposed to fuck people over and steal their music.

And that’s not the way things are. That’s the way people decide to do things. What man makes man can unmake. There is always a choice. And there are people in the industry who do things the right way.

I don’t give a fock if it’s lauryn hill ,puffy or whoever, don’t steal, and when you get sued do try to play the victim.

>fuck robert glasper

I think Ms. Hill is a genius. To quote Method Man, "Half these critics ain't got half the skill." Nor are they educated enough to even appreciate the full scope of her artistry. Now do I think that being exceptionally talented justifies intentionally shitty behavior towards others...no. But I also agree that life is messy and we don't know why people do the things they do or what actually happened behind the scenes. So in the absence of this information, it's easy to misattribute the intentions of others to malice or even mental illness.

and even those that were can be biased in the telling of things based on their own personal agenda

either way, she paid the price for it and moved on. meanwhile, there are those that got away with the same shit but yet we still throwing darts at LBoogie

d

I hope a black woman musical scholar, expert or someone does an expose on sexism. Even Toure's white women loving ass took pride in tearing down Lauryn Hill in a white publication.

In my personal experience, black men at the top resent beautiful, dark skinned, black successful women. It reminds some black men of their inadequacy and dependance on white supremacy to feel important, which is why so many race to white /light skinned women to feel like they arrived.

Sexism is rampant in music and unless you are bowing down to get fucked, used, embarrassed or sell records, black men will use up these women and toss them out.

Lauryn Hill will always be a winner for holding her own as best as she could in this cut throat industry.

I got a dude that engineers for him and Jerry Wonder and Clef plays guitar, bass, keys, samples and DJs so if Clef has someone on perform on a track it's because he wanted them and didn't need them.



<=========================================
https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/PYzh4v9cSf4FDnq3yMQyqNqh79o=/800x0/filters:no_upscale%28%29/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/4079674/jlio.0.gif

I got the point he was making, but Wyclef didn't deserve to be part of the example.

I know he “plays” instruments but I thought he still had a team of session musicians

and wanted to use her platform and music to critique consumerism and colonialism. She even narrated portions of Fanon's Wretched of The Earth for a documentary on African independence in the 50s, 60s, and 70s. The few songs she has released are clearly influenced by critical theory and marxism, including references to people like Herbert Marcuse.

She also works a lot more with African artists. Here is a snippet of a song by Komi she did a feature on.

https://soundcloud.com/user-958395111/komisnippet-ms-lauryn-hill-ko-jo-cue-produced-by-juls

Written credit in album art is a courtesy not ruled under any law.

The only thing that is ruled under the law is the copyright ownership %'s, publishing, mechanicals, and all that backend good stuff.

So as long as your publishing, contracts, etc are straight no one ever has to "legally" give you written credit in an album.

Where a lot of confusion comes IMO in situations like this is session musicians are considered (work-for-hire). They come in, get paid hourly and own nothing.

Anyone could be treated as a session musician including a "beat maker" if they wanted to.

Many times the issues around "credit" or "stealing" come in the unsaid confusion between a work-for-hire musician and a true collaborator. And oftentimes many people don't discuss what should be happening upfront until after the fact.

And of course the power dynamic also plays a role in the confusion.

Clyde Stubblefield is a perfect exampled of this. He was James Browns drummer and his sound is essential to hip hop breaks but he was a session musician and was paid a day rate and therefore all his ideas/contributions are owned by James Brown and or whomever owns the masters and publishing.

on the flip side Kanye is the best at this. Ironically Che Pope who ran good music for a minute AND was "one of those Miseducation producers" was great about giving pub and credit to damn near everyone in the room during the process.

in terms of the musicians that worked on Miseducation. Him and James Poyser were much more established musicians/producers (aka the A team). The New Arc musicians were people she grew up around and recruited. They didn't realize how little they were actually credited until Sony was finalizing the album release. Che said he could have joined the lawsuit, but missed his chance. He also said that he had already worked with other musicians like Teddy Riley and Wyclef and knew how shady the business side of recording was. Che has since said that musicians don't get taken advantage of by others; they *let* themselves get taken advantage of by not understanding what they have already signed away.

Plus, if other artists think you are a greedy session musician than they will not want to work with you. I think Missy Elliot canceled upcoming sessions with some of these New Arc guys after the lawsuit broke. None of those guys have really done anything else of note besides the Miseducation; aside from the one guy who was an A&R or manager for Rhianna around the time of Pon De Replay.

... :-)

>Che has since said that musicians don't get taken advantage of
>by others; they *let* themselves get taken advantage of by not
>understanding what they have already signed away.

A true distinction without a difference.

That wasn't the situation with Lauryn. She was sued by 4 music arrangers
who produced and arranged all the songs on her album. She was forced to settle, because they had proof that they produced everything, and Lauryn took credit for it.

They were suing her for partial credit on 13 of the 14 songs on the album! And like I said, she had to settle.

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/lauryn-hill-settles-lawsuit-251366/

And she is still facing a lawsuit from another musician for one of the songs on the album...not sure if that is still on the table


And producing/arranging and being a session musician are not in the same arena. A session musician is brought in to play for certain parts on a song or for many different parts on a song on one or several songs, and they do it by the hour, or per song, or per session, depending on what their rates are. The cats that sued did way more than that, they arranged, the produced, etc.

Granted, she was sued by contributors who allege that she stole their work, but who wrote Unplugged? I know some couldn't get past the amateurish guitar playing, but those songs were really strong (those are still my favorite songs of hers). When you listen to that album, you realize the only thing that's lacking is polished production. I can believe she didn't create the musical arrangements behind the songs on Miseducation, but her signature is all over the songwriting. People who say she "stole the songs" are obviously going overboard. Mofo in here really said all she could do was rap and harmonize as if she wasn't still writing great songs AFTER Miseducation. Let's also not forget that she was pretty much universally regarded as the best emcee of a 10x platinum group already. But yeah... songwriting. The woman has that talent, and she's proven it.

If you search for Dissect podcast, you can find a 8 part documentary series about the artistic themes of Miseducation. It also features some back story about the lawsuit and her personal life.

It's worth a listen, even if you aren't a major fan of the album.

https://www.mixcloud.com/jperiod/jperiod-presents-the-live-mixtape-ms-lauryn-hill-edition-live-broadcast-version/?utm_campaign=notification_new_upload&utm_medium=email&utm_source=notification&utm_content=html

I came here to post for the first time in 10 years, and to bump a 2 year old thread lol.

I was recently revisiting The Score and started watching some Fugees documentaries, and eventually fell down that perennial rabbit hole: What happened to Lauryn?

Anyways ... I actually came here to ask if anyone knows *anything* about that Brother Anthony dude. Lauryn's supposed spiritual guru who some credit for her "craziness". I was digging deep in the Google search results to find literally anything about him. Ideally I'd like to hear some of his teachings so I can judge for myself.

I feel like this is one of the few places online where I can ask, maybe some older heads would know something? Who's Brother Anthony?

I’ll follow up