Printer-friendly copy Email this topic to a friend
Lobby Okay Activist Archives topic #9864

Subject: "pimping icons" This topic is locked.
Previous topic | Next topic
krewcial
Charter member
3268 posts
Thu Nov-22-01 01:21 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
"pimping icons"


  

          

Jay-Z wearing a Che Guevara t-shirt ... (sigh)

One of rampant materialism's main representatives wearing a shirt with Che Guevara ?

Imagine Donald Trump wearing a Malcolm X shirt.




krewc
www.vinylators.com

krewcial
www.krewcial.com
www.myspace.com/krewcial
www.okayplayer.com/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=23051&forum=lesson

http://www.23hq.com/krewcial/photo/1085564?album_id=1085556

Nashville recording sessions : www.krewcial.com/nashville

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top


Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
bush jogs in a rock steady crew jumpsuit.
Nov 22nd 2001
1
lol
Nov 22nd 2001
17
hmmm...
Nov 22nd 2001
2
plus
Nov 22nd 2001
4
Arguable
Nov 22nd 2001
5
RE: hmmm...
Nov 22nd 2001
6
simple
Nov 22nd 2001
11
      What bandwagon
Nov 28th 2001
60
           well
Nov 28th 2001
62
NO WAY!
Nov 22nd 2001
7
RE: NO WAY!
laursen
Nov 22nd 2001
8
      capitalism is not limted to what is legal...
Nov 22nd 2001
9
           RE: capitalism is not limted to what is legal...
laursen
Nov 23rd 2001
18
                RE: capitalism is not limted to what is legal...
Nov 23rd 2001
20
                     RE: capitalism is not limted to what is legal...
laursen
Nov 23rd 2001
23
                          riddle me this...
Nov 23rd 2001
25
                               well
Nov 24th 2001
26
                               my question was...
Nov 24th 2001
27
                               RE: riddle me this...
laursen
Nov 24th 2001
28
                                    incorrect
Nov 24th 2001
31
                                    RE: incorrect
laursen
Nov 24th 2001
33
                                         capitalism is capitalism.
Nov 24th 2001
34
                                              RE: capitalism is capitalism.
laursen
Nov 24th 2001
36
                                                   RE: capitalism is capitalism.
Nov 25th 2001
40
                                                  
Nov 25th 2001
41
                                   
Nov 24th 2001
32
                                        
laursen
Nov 24th 2001
35
                                              capitalism promotes underground economy...
Nov 24th 2001
37
I disagree
Nov 22nd 2001
10
common
Nov 22nd 2001
3
actually
Nov 22nd 2001
12
      i was saying
Nov 23rd 2001
19
i pimp emoticons.
Nov 22nd 2001
13
x(
Nov 22nd 2001
14
      ...
Nov 22nd 2001
15
           RE: ...
moshe
Nov 22nd 2001
16
                hey AZ
Nov 29th 2001
68
maybe
Nov 23rd 2001
21
RE: pimping icons
Nov 23rd 2001
22
RE: pimping icons
laursen
Nov 23rd 2001
24
it's not just an image
Nov 24th 2001
29
      i meant
Nov 24th 2001
30
RE: pimping icons
Dec 07th 2001
69
here's the explanation:
Nov 24th 2001
38
The "cool" people
Nov 28th 2001
61
Jay-Z
Nov 24th 2001
39
RE: Jay-Z
Nov 25th 2001
42
      RE: Jay-Z
Nov 25th 2001
43
           This Indian "squaw"
Nov 26th 2001
45
           RE: This Indian "squaw"
Nov 26th 2001
51
           RE: Jay-Z
Nov 26th 2001
52
                it's humor
Nov 28th 2001
64
                     RE: it's humor
Nov 28th 2001
67
                          Some white cat,
KemetShakur
Dec 09th 2001
72
Easy....
Nov 26th 2001
44
if he DOES know
Nov 26th 2001
46
What I'm witnessing here....
Nov 28th 2001
58
      yeah sure
Dec 09th 2001
70
tell'em koku...
Nov 27th 2001
57
first off
Nov 26th 2001
47
RE: first off
Nov 26th 2001
48
?
Nov 26th 2001
49
      It certainly had nothing to do w/
Nov 28th 2001
59
strange logic
Nov 28th 2001
63
      you're right too
Nov 28th 2001
65
           thanks
Nov 28th 2001
66
Yall gon kick me outta OA but...
Nov 26th 2001
50
RE: pimping icons
Nov 26th 2001
53
disagree
Nov 27th 2001
54
lol
Nov 27th 2001
55
      RE: lol
Nov 27th 2001
56
CHE FOR ROCA-WEAR...
Dec 09th 2001
71

praverbs
Charter member
27156 posts
Thu Nov-22-01 01:30 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
1. "bush jogs in a rock steady crew jumpsuit."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

*****¡I AM! ¿ARE YOU?*****

QUOTABLES CIRCA 1984:
1)"orthodoxy is unconsciousness."-syme.
2)"who controls the past controls the future: who controls the present controls the past."-party slogan.
3)"perhaps a lunatic was simply a minority of one."-winston smith.
4)"the heresy of heresies was common sense."-narrator.
5)"until they (the proles) become conscious they will never rebel, and until after they have rebelled they cannot become conscious."-winston

THAT'S THEIR WORD:
1)"swimming the channels of life/we're orators of rhyme, handlin' mics/ tip-toeing through the corridors of your mind with candlelight." talib kweli. "respiration (flying high mix)".
2)"we ain't vote to get into this shit, so we won't vote to get out." welfare poets. "the bullet".
3)"i don't hate players: i hate the mayors." sticman. "cop shot".
4)"promoting everything from the liquor to the nicotine/cell phones, antihistamines, chicken wings/you gotta show a little skin to keep 'em listening/fa real yo, the world is a sex machine." blackthought. "pussy galore".
5)"it's me against housing...no disrespect, my metaphors'll keep me out the projects." ghostface killah/superb. "ghost deini". (peace to TheWallyChamp for sonnin' me on the malquotation)

SNDTRK:
1)"a toast to the people". gil scott-heron/brian jackson.(the revolution won't be televised, but it does have theme music)
2)"sometimes". bilal.(post-extinction agenda stress relief)
3)"i am the black gold of the sun". rotary connection; nuyorican soul.(every version of this song radiates abstract pro-blackness)
4)"creole". charlie hunter quartet f/mos def.(¡frank sinatra ain't got no soul/mos def sounds like nat king cole!)
5)"time's up". oc.("you lack the minerals and vitamins/irons and the niacin/fuck who that i offend"-'nuff said)

okay p'ra verbs. GIVING YOU TRUE TRUTH SINCE...¿WHAT TIME IT IS?

« Slick Rick the Ruler in the Land of the Blind »

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
jose3030
Charter member
59155 posts
Thu Nov-22-01 05:47 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
17. "lol"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

e-me: jose3030@hotmail.com
IM: jose3030

________________________
http://www.twitter.com/jose3030 - Twitter

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

dafriquan
Charter member
24695 posts
Thu Nov-22-01 06:09 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
2. "hmmm..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Why can't Donald Trump wear a Malcom X T-Shirt? He's not a proven racist is he?
Jay-Z wore that Che Guevera t-shirt probably because
1)it looked good. it's obviously not your print shop run off. looks like a brand to me.
2)he wanted to intentionally prove a point i.e. can't judge a book by the cover.

Che might have actually liked Jay-Z if he were still alive. Or at least he would definitely not see him as the enemy. Let's not forget that all Che wanted to do was spread the wealth around. Jay-Z got his wealth with his own sweat. It was not passed down to him like members of the aristocratic classes in Cuba at that time.

If Che's mandate was to empower the oppressed classes, Jay-Z definitely qualifies.

p.s. what Jay-Z choses to rap about is a whole other issue. But let's just say he is selling a product and people are buying it.
SIGNATURE STARTS YONDER
"I'm not looking...forward to seeing
him"- Snoop on Suge's release.
understatement of the year
**************************
NE LOVE/ LOVE
(THE C ICE IS URS)
**************************
The emoticon as 'O' symbol is a
registered trademark of dafriquan.
No biting without written permission.
*************************

RIP JDILLA
THE ILLEST THAT EVER DID IT

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
Brandard
Charter member
11908 posts
Thu Nov-22-01 07:30 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
4. "plus"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

[]
regardless of what you think of Jay let's look at it like this.

-most popular hip hop artist gets high profile event sure to attract tons of viewers.
-most of those viewers are probably not familar with che and then suddenly their favorite artist is sporting a shirt, makes all these people ask "who dat?"
-now you have thousands of people at least interested in what makes this che guy important enough for jigga to wear him on hist shirt

I think its more a case of a star using his high profile to get a message across to people.


Giving You True Lesson Moderation Since'03
******

Want something archived? thats what an inbox is for

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
pocahontas
Charter member
441 posts
Thu Nov-22-01 08:32 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
5. "Arguable"
In response to Reply # 2


          

>If Che's mandate was to empower the oppressed classes, Jay-Z >definitely qualifies.

Jay-Z as empowering...that's an assertion that is interesting... one could argue that actually, Jay-Z is playing perfectly into the hands of White racist stereotypes and therefore making major dough by "working" the very system that Che was interested in revolutionizing...or downright eradicating.



**********************
you want me? well come on and break the door down. you want me? fuckin' come on and break the door down. i'm ready, i'm ready...

I'M REEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAADDDDDY!




  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
SirLau
Charter member
5517 posts
Thu Nov-22-01 09:04 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
6. "RE: hmmm..."
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

I'm not feelin' you on the Donald Trump tip, but everything else you said was pretty much on point. The question is, is wearing A Guevara shirt gonna help advance his career. If the answer is no, then how is he pimpin' an icon?

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
krewcial
Charter member
3268 posts
Thu Nov-22-01 01:35 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
11. "simple"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

>The
>question is, is wearing A
>Guevara shirt gonna help advance
>his career. If the
>answer is no, then how
>is he pimpin' an icon?

His ignorant fans won't care who's on his shirt. Plus he don't need to worry about them anyway, they buy his shit cos Jigga is hot.

But that same Jigga is pretty upset about his lack of props from a big part of the hiphop community who consider his lyrical content trash (I did not say his music, his flow or skills, just his lyrical content and what he represents).

He's been dissing those people, so obviously it's frustrating to him ... if it wasn't why else would he mention it. Now, in a foolish and naive attempt to gain (part of) that audience he wears a Che Guevara shirt.

Come on y'all, we all know how many people wore 'Afrocentric' gear when conscious rap was big, and Malcolm X caps when Spike Lee released the movie. And we all know how many of those people were bandwagonjumpers too.

So let's not be naive.



krewc
www.vinylators.com

krewcial
www.krewcial.com
www.myspace.com/krewcial
www.okayplayer.com/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=23051&forum=lesson

http://www.23hq.com/krewcial/photo/1085564?album_id=1085556

Nashville recording sessions : www.krewcial.com/nashville

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
Koku
Charter member
71257 posts
Wed Nov-28-01 03:12 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
60. "What bandwagon"
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

does Jay-Z need to jump on? He's Jay-Z! What the
hell does Jay-Z look like "jumping on a bandwagon"?

You just made me laugh with that one.

A platinum artist w/certified skills jumping on a
bandwagon. To please who? You?
_______________________________________________________________

You are on a Need to Know basis for the following and the following only:

-My Guitar's name is The Fuck?™
-TV Funhouse on Comedy Central
-Jimi Hendrix "Voodoo Soup"
-http://www.kodefendant.com
-Fear & Loathing in Las Vegas

How did I get here?

Official Spokesperson for The Straights

---

@kokupuff

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
krewcial
Charter member
3268 posts
Wed Nov-28-01 06:31 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
62. "well"
In response to Reply # 60


  

          

>A platinum artist w/certified skills jumping
>on a
>bandwagon. To please who? You?

You act like there's just one train ...

So far Jay-Z's been riding his own train, but at the same time he's been frustrated about not being able to convince the passengers on "that other train" (let's call 'm "backpackers" or "underground" just to keep things simple) to let him take the wheel, or even buy a ticket.

Various references in his music to "haters" etcetera, plus the fact he even claims to be a "backpacker" now LOL. If that doesn't show how eager or even desperate he is to get props or recognition from those "backpackers" then I don't know.

Or maybe ?uest is just trying to justify working with Jay-Z.

Anyway, to me : action speaks louder than words. Wearing a Che Guevara t-shirt or claiming he loves underground hiphop doesn't convince me ... to me Jay-Z remains an excellent emcee who throws out party bangers every now and then, but doesn't teach me anything when doing so. His lyrical content remains a hollow
glorification of rampant materialism. (I'm not a Jay-Z hater like a lot of people on this thread, I just think there's things he can do, and other stuff he shouldn't even consider).

Working with The Roots, wearing a shirt with Guevara's pic or claiming to be a backpacker doesn't change that ... to the contrary : it's pathetic.

I'm just saying : you can't be a walking billboard for capitalism 25/8 and then suddenly pretend to be "true to the art" at the same time. Cos those 2 things don't blend too well.




krewc
www.vinylators.com

krewcial
www.krewcial.com
www.myspace.com/krewcial
www.okayplayer.com/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=23051&forum=lesson

http://www.23hq.com/krewcial/photo/1085564?album_id=1085556

Nashville recording sessions : www.krewcial.com/nashville

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
AZ
Charter member
12930 posts
Thu Nov-22-01 09:13 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
7. "NO WAY!"
In response to Reply # 2


          

Jay Z represents everything Che fought against. Che wasn't just about "spreading the wealth". He was a hardcore Marxist. Jay Z is all about capitalism, exploiting whatever you can to get the dough.


>If Che's mandate was to empower
>the oppressed classes, Jay-Z definitely
>qualifies.

No. Che's mandate was for Socialist revolution. Jay Z hardly qualifies.


>p.s. what Jay-Z choses to rap
>about is a whole other
>issue. But let's just say
>he is selling a product
>and people are buying it.

Exactly he is just another cog in the capitalist machine, the same system that Che despised. Actually, he's more than just a cog in the system, he's a spokesman, a huge supporter of the system.

Drug dealing, pimping, whatever, are about the most capitalist things you can do.

____________________________________________

"we Jews control the US" - Ariel Sharon

"Your Honor,years ago I recognized my kinship with all living beings, and I made up my mind that I was not one bit better than the meanest on earth. I said then, and I say now, that while there is a lower class, I am in it, and while there is a criminal element I am of it, and while there is a soul in prison, I am not free." -Eugene V. Debs

"Oh You who believe ! Stand out firmly for Justice, as witnesses to God, even against yourself, against your children and against your parents. Against people who are rich or poor. Because God is the best of all Protectors. Do not follow your inclinations or desires lest you should deviate from justice. Verily God is well acquainted with all that you do."

Holy Quran, Chapter 4: Verse

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
laursen

Thu Nov-22-01 09:28 AM

  
8. "RE: NO WAY!"
In response to Reply # 7


          

>all about capitalism, exploiting
>whatever you can to get
>the dough.

contrary to popular practice i don't think breaking laws and manipulating corrupt government officials (among other offenses) is supposed to be a part of a free market and capitalism.

http://www.lancetfluke.com

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
praverbs
Charter member
27156 posts
Thu Nov-22-01 11:05 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
9. "capitalism is not limted to what is legal..."
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

capitalism actually promotes underground economy by refusing the lower class economic success legally, therefore leaving them to satisfy their programmed economic urges illegally.

*****¡I AM! ¿ARE YOU?*****

QUOTABLES CIRCA 1984:
1)"orthodoxy is unconsciousness."-syme.
2)"who controls the past controls the future: who controls the present controls the past."-party slogan.
3)"perhaps a lunatic was simply a minority of one."-winston smith.
4)"the heresy of heresies was common sense."-narrator.
5)"until they (the proles) become conscious they will never rebel, and until after they have rebelled they cannot become conscious."-winston

THAT'S THEIR WORD:
1)"swimming the channels of life/we're orators of rhyme, handlin' mics/ tip-toeing through the corridors of your mind with candlelight." talib kweli. "respiration (flying high mix)".
2)"we ain't vote to get into this shit, so we won't vote to get out." welfare poets. "the bullet".
3)"i don't hate players: i hate the mayors." sticman. "cop shot".
4)"promoting everything from the liquor to the nicotine/cell phones, antihistamines, chicken wings/you gotta show a little skin to keep 'em listening/fa real yo, the world is a sex machine." blackthought. "pussy galore".
5)"it's me against housing...no disrespect, my metaphors'll keep me out the projects." ghostface killah/superb. "ghost deini". (peace to TheWallyChamp for sonnin' me on the malquotation)

SNDTRK:
1)"a toast to the people". gil scott-heron/brian jackson.(the revolution won't be televised, but it does have theme music)
2)"sometimes". bilal.(post-extinction agenda stress relief)
3)"i am the black gold of the sun". rotary connection; nuyorican soul.(every version of this song radiates abstract pro-blackness)
4)"creole". charlie hunter quartet f/mos def.(¡frank sinatra ain't got no soul/mos def sounds like nat king cole!)
5)"time's up". oc.("you lack the minerals and vitamins/irons and the niacin/fuck who that i offend"-'nuff said)

okay p'ra verbs. GIVING YOU TRUE TRUTH SINCE...¿WHAT TIME IT IS?

« Slick Rick the Ruler in the Land of the Blind »

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
laursen

Fri Nov-23-01 05:26 AM

  
18. "RE: capitalism is not limted to what is legal..."
In response to Reply # 9


          

>capitalism actually promotes underground economy by
>refusing the lower class economic
>success legally, therefore leaving them
>to satisfy their programmed economic
>urges illegally.

how does capitalism refuse economic success through laws? I'm not talking about the US governments modified version I'm talking about the ideal. Programmed economic urges??

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                    
praverbs
Charter member
27156 posts
Fri Nov-23-01 10:56 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
20. "RE: capitalism is not limted to what is legal..."
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

>how does capitalism refuse economic success
>through laws?

capitalism only allows a handful of people to reach legal financial success (it can't work any other way: a proletarian minority cannot support an upper-class majority), and when people can't make money legally, they doolow. i wasn't asserting that legislation promotes this (the ethos of capitalism does that on its own), but since you brought it up, laws are indeed in favor of the wealthy (¿and why wouldn't they be? they pay our politicians for them).

>I'm not talking
>about the US governments modified
>version I'm talking about the
>ideal.

¿you got some good capitalism, for me?

>Programmed economic urges??

a product of a capitalistic system is the materialism of the masses.


*****¡I AM! ¿ARE YOU?*****

QUOTABLES CIRCA 1984:
1)"orthodoxy is unconsciousness."-syme.
2)"who controls the past controls the future: who controls the present controls the past."-party slogan.
3)"perhaps a lunatic was simply a minority of one."-winston smith.
4)"the heresy of heresies was common sense."-narrator.
5)"until they (the proles) become conscious they will never rebel, and until after they have rebelled they cannot become conscious."-winston

THAT'S THEIR WORD:
1)"swimming the channels of life/we're orators of rhyme, handlin' mics/ tip-toeing through the corridors of your mind with candlelight." talib kweli. "respiration (flying high mix)".
2)"we ain't vote to get into this shit, so we won't vote to get out." welfare poets. "the bullet".
3)"i don't hate players: i hate the mayors." sticman. "cop shot".
4)"promoting everything from the liquor to the nicotine/cell phones, antihistamines, chicken wings/you gotta show a little skin to keep 'em listening/fa real yo, the world is a sex machine." blackthought. "pussy galore".
5)"it's me against housing...no disrespect, my metaphors'll keep me out the projects." ghostface killah/superb. "ghost deini". (peace to TheWallyChamp for sonnin' me on the malquotation)

SNDTRK:
1)"a toast to the people". gil scott-heron/brian jackson.(the revolution won't be televised, but it does have theme music)
2)"sometimes". bilal.(post-extinction agenda stress relief)
3)"i am the black gold of the sun". rotary connection; nuyorican soul.(every version of this song radiates abstract pro-blackness)
4)"creole". charlie hunter quartet f/mos def.(¡frank sinatra ain't got no soul/mos def sounds like nat king cole!)
5)"time's up". oc.("you lack the minerals and vitamins/irons and the niacin/fuck who that i offend"-'nuff said)

okay p'ra verbs. GIVING YOU TRUE TRUTH SINCE...¿WHAT TIME IT IS?

« Slick Rick the Ruler in the Land of the Blind »

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                        
laursen

Fri Nov-23-01 04:05 PM

  
23. "RE: capitalism is not limted to what is legal..."
In response to Reply # 20


          

>capitalism only allows a handful of
>people to reach legal financial
>success (it can't work any
>other way: a proletarian minority
>cannot support an upper-class majority),
>and when people can't make
>money legally, they doolow.
>i wasn't asserting that legislation promotes
>this (the ethos of capitalism
>does that on its own),
>but since you brought it
>up, laws are indeed in
>favor of the wealthy (¿and
>why wouldn't they be? they
>pay our politicians for them).
>¿you got some good capitalism, for
>me?
I still don't see how capitalism promotes what you are saying it does - how do you define "financial success"? As for doolowing, I point the blame at the individual, never the system. (disclamer - prior statement does not condone said "system", a.k.a. "shitstem")

>a product of a capitalistic system
>is the materialism of the
>masses.

no, a product of capitalism is the fullfilment of the materialism of the masses. You don't see materialism in non-capitalist countries cause they are poor and ain't got shit to be materialistic with! Doesn't mean the citizens don't want it. Look at the pictures in the newspapers from the last few days - Afghanistanian men literally climbing over each other to get into a recently re-opened movie theatre. Propoganda? In a way, yes, but people aren't rowing to Florida from Cuba on driftwood or hiding themselves in fake chairseats in Tijuana to get to America for a vacation... They want at least a SOMEWHAT fair chance.

http://www.lancetfluke.com

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                            
praverbs
Charter member
27156 posts
Fri Nov-23-01 04:28 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
25. "riddle me this..."
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

>...people aren't rowing to Florida from Cuba on driftwood or >hiding themselves in fake chairseats in Tijuana to get to >America for a vacation... They want at least a SOMEWHAT fair >chance.

¿in what way is capitalism fair?

*****¡I AM! ¿ARE YOU?*****

QUOTABLES CIRCA 1984:
1)"orthodoxy is unconsciousness."-syme.
2)"who controls the past controls the future: who controls the present controls the past."-party slogan.
3)"perhaps a lunatic was simply a minority of one."-winston smith.
4)"the heresy of heresies was common sense."-narrator.
5)"until they (the proles) become conscious they will never rebel, and until after they have rebelled they cannot become conscious."-winston

THAT'S THEIR WORD:
1)"swimming the channels of life/we're orators of rhyme, handlin' mics/ tip-toeing through the corridors of your mind with candlelight." talib kweli. "respiration (flying high mix)".
2)"we ain't vote to get into this shit, so we won't vote to get out." welfare poets. "the bullet".
3)"i don't hate players: i hate the mayors." sticman. "cop shot".
4)"promoting everything from the liquor to the nicotine/cell phones, antihistamines, chicken wings/you gotta show a little skin to keep 'em listening/fa real yo, the world is a sex machine." blackthought. "pussy galore".
5)"it's me against housing...no disrespect, my metaphors'll keep me out the projects." ghostface killah/superb. "ghost deini". (peace to TheWallyChamp for sonnin' me on the malquotation)

SNDTRK:
1)"a toast to the people". gil scott-heron/brian jackson.(the revolution won't be televised, but it does have theme music)
2)"sometimes". bilal.(post-extinction agenda stress relief)
3)"i am the black gold of the sun". rotary connection; nuyorican soul.(every version of this song radiates abstract pro-blackness)
4)"creole". charlie hunter quartet f/mos def.(¡frank sinatra ain't got no soul/mos def sounds like nat king cole!)
5)"time's up". oc.("you lack the minerals and vitamins/irons and the niacin/fuck who that i offend"-'nuff said)

okay p'ra verbs. GIVING YOU TRUE TRUTH SINCE...¿WHAT TIME IT IS?

« Slick Rick the Ruler in the Land of the Blind »

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                
krewcial
Charter member
3268 posts
Sat Nov-24-01 03:48 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
26. "well"
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

>>...people aren't rowing to Florida from Cuba on driftwood or >hiding themselves in fake chairseats in Tijuana to get to >America for a vacation... They want at least a SOMEWHAT fair >chance.

The situation for people in Cuba and Mexico is an indirect consequence of capitalism.

From their perspective, it makes a lot of sense to escape from an opressed area to an area where the opression and exploitation is less dominant.

And it's also the result of propaganda; the Western world is always portrayed as better, happier, ... through advertisements, movies, music, ...




krewc
www.vinylators.com

krewcial
www.krewcial.com
www.myspace.com/krewcial
www.okayplayer.com/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=23051&forum=lesson

http://www.23hq.com/krewcial/photo/1085564?album_id=1085556

Nashville recording sessions : www.krewcial.com/nashville

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                    
praverbs
Charter member
27156 posts
Sat Nov-24-01 04:17 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
27. "my question was..."
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

¿in what way is capitalism fair? i don't care about perception.


*****¡I AM! ¿ARE YOU?*****

QUOTABLES CIRCA 1984:
1)"orthodoxy is unconsciousness."-syme.
2)"who controls the past controls the future: who controls the present controls the past."-party slogan.
3)"perhaps a lunatic was simply a minority of one."-winston smith.
4)"the heresy of heresies was common sense."-narrator.
5)"until they (the proles) become conscious they will never rebel, and until after they have rebelled they cannot become conscious."-winston

THAT'S THEIR WORD:
1)"swimming the channels of life/we're orators of rhyme, handlin' mics/ tip-toeing through the corridors of your mind with candlelight." talib kweli. "respiration (flying high mix)".
2)"we ain't vote to get into this shit, so we won't vote to get out." welfare poets. "the bullet".
3)"i don't hate players: i hate the mayors." sticman. "cop shot".
4)"promoting everything from the liquor to the nicotine/cell phones, antihistamines, chicken wings/you gotta show a little skin to keep 'em listening/fa real yo, the world is a sex machine." blackthought. "pussy galore".
5)"it's me against housing...no disrespect, my metaphors'll keep me out the projects." ghostface killah/superb. "ghost deini". (peace to TheWallyChamp for sonnin' me on the malquotation)

SNDTRK:
1)"a toast to the people". gil scott-heron/brian jackson.(the revolution won't be televised, but it does have theme music)
2)"sometimes". bilal.(post-extinction agenda stress relief)
3)"i am the black gold of the sun". rotary connection; nuyorican soul.(every version of this song radiates abstract pro-blackness)
4)"creole". charlie hunter quartet f/mos def.(¡frank sinatra ain't got no soul/mos def sounds like nat king cole!)
5)"time's up". oc.("you lack the minerals and vitamins/irons and the niacin/fuck who that i offend"-'nuff said)

okay p'ra verbs. GIVING YOU TRUE TRUTH SINCE...¿WHAT TIME IT IS?

« Slick Rick the Ruler in the Land of the Blind »

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                
laursen

Sat Nov-24-01 06:17 AM

  
28. "RE: riddle me this..."
In response to Reply # 25


          

>¿in what way is capitalism fair?

Work hard, get paid for it. Work harder get paid more. What do you mean fair?

And please try to explain how capitalism creates a rich elite by principle.

http://www.lancetfluke.com

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                    
krewcial
Charter member
3268 posts
Sat Nov-24-01 09:41 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
31. "incorrect"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

>>¿in what way is capitalism fair?
>
>Work hard, get paid for it.
>Work harder get paid more.

In theory, yes.

In real life ?

People working for one of Nike's contractors : 10-12 hours a day, 6 days a week, in far from good conditions, for approx. $3 an hour.

Me working 18 hours a week, having access to medical care and social security, union support when needed and making $12 an hour.

All becos my country is on the good side of this so-called 'free market', which enables it to pimp other countries and economies.

The capitalism you're referring to only exists in books.



krewc
www.vinylators.com

krewcial
www.krewcial.com
www.myspace.com/krewcial
www.okayplayer.com/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=23051&forum=lesson

http://www.23hq.com/krewcial/photo/1085564?album_id=1085556

Nashville recording sessions : www.krewcial.com/nashville

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                        
laursen

Sat Nov-24-01 03:06 PM

  
33. "RE: incorrect"
In response to Reply # 31


          

>The capitalism you're referring to only
>exists in books.

That's the one we're talking about though.

http://www.lancetfluke.com

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                            
praverbs
Charter member
27156 posts
Sat Nov-24-01 03:25 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
34. "capitalism is capitalism."
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

just b/c they made it sound peace in economics class don't mean the theory is on point. the praxis is flawed. it is an economic system that is driven by the greed of the owners, the materialism of the consumer, and the exploitation of the worker.

¿tell me how, in any way, is capitalism fair? (considering that the wealthiest fifth of this nations population owns over 93% of the wealth of this nation.)

*****¡I AM! ¿ARE YOU?*****

QUOTABLES CIRCA 1984:
1)"orthodoxy is unconsciousness."-syme.
2)"who controls the past controls the future: who controls the present controls the past."-party slogan.
3)"perhaps a lunatic was simply a minority of one."-winston smith.
4)"the heresy of heresies was common sense."-narrator.
5)"until they (the proles) become conscious they will never rebel, and until after they have rebelled they cannot become conscious."-winston

THAT'S THEIR WORD:
1)"swimming the channels of life/we're orators of rhyme, handlin' mics/ tip-toeing through the corridors of your mind with candlelight." talib kweli. "respiration (flying high mix)".
2)"we ain't vote to get into this shit, so we won't vote to get out." welfare poets. "the bullet".
3)"i don't hate players: i hate the mayors." sticman. "cop shot".
4)"promoting everything from the liquor to the nicotine/cell phones, antihistamines, chicken wings/you gotta show a little skin to keep 'em listening/fa real yo, the world is a sex machine." blackthought. "pussy galore".
5)"it's me against housing...no disrespect, my metaphors'll keep me out the projects." ghostface killah/superb. "ghost deini". (peace to TheWallyChamp for sonnin' me on the malquotation)

SNDTRK:
1)"a toast to the people". gil scott-heron/brian jackson.(the revolution won't be televised, but it does have theme music)
2)"sometimes". bilal.(post-extinction agenda stress relief)
3)"i am the black gold of the sun". rotary connection; nuyorican soul.(every version of this song radiates abstract pro-blackness)
4)"creole". charlie hunter quartet f/mos def.(¡frank sinatra ain't got no soul/mos def sounds like nat king cole!)
5)"time's up". oc.("you lack the minerals and vitamins/irons and the niacin/fuck who that i offend"-'nuff said)

okay p'ra verbs. GIVING YOU TRUE TRUTH SINCE...¿WHAT TIME IT IS?

« Slick Rick the Ruler in the Land of the Blind »

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                
laursen

Sat Nov-24-01 03:44 PM

  
36. "RE: capitalism is capitalism."
In response to Reply # 34


          

>just b/c they made it sound
>peace in economics class don't
>mean the theory is on
>point. the praxis is flawed.
>it is an economic system
>that is driven by the
>greed of the owners, the
>materialism of the consumer, and
>the exploitation of the worker.

Yes to the greed and materialsm, how does it lead to exploitation?

>¿tell me how, in any way,
>is capitalism fair? (considering that
>the wealthiest fifth of this
>nations population owns over 93%
>of the wealth of this
>nation.)

80% are lazy

http://www.lancetfluke.com

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                    
krewcial
Charter member
3268 posts
Sun Nov-25-01 01:17 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
40. "RE: capitalism is capitalism."
In response to Reply # 36


  

          

>>¿tell me how, in any way,
>>is capitalism fair? (considering that
>>the wealthiest fifth of this
>>nations population owns over 93%
>>of the wealth of this
>>nation.)
>
>80% are lazy

And you ask us to back up what we're saying with facts ?

LOL.




krewc
www.vinylators.com

krewcial
www.krewcial.com
www.myspace.com/krewcial
www.okayplayer.com/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=23051&forum=lesson

http://www.23hq.com/krewcial/photo/1085564?album_id=1085556

Nashville recording sessions : www.krewcial.com/nashville

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                    
praverbs
Charter member
27156 posts
Sun Nov-25-01 01:48 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
41. ""
In response to Reply # 36


  

          

*****¡I AM! ¿ARE YOU?*****

QUOTABLES CIRCA 1984:
1)"orthodoxy is unconsciousness."-syme.
2)"who controls the past controls the future: who controls the present controls the past."-party slogan.
3)"perhaps a lunatic was simply a minority of one."-winston smith.
4)"the heresy of heresies was common sense."-narrator.
5)"until they (the proles) become conscious they will never rebel, and until after they have rebelled they cannot become conscious."-winston

THAT'S THEIR WORD:
1)"swimming the channels of life/we're orators of rhyme, handlin' mics/ tip-toeing through the corridors of your mind with candlelight." talib kweli. "respiration (flying high mix)".
2)"we ain't vote to get into this shit, so we won't vote to get out." welfare poets. "the bullet".
3)"i don't hate players: i hate the mayors." sticman. "cop shot".
4)"promoting everything from the liquor to the nicotine/cell phones, antihistamines, chicken wings/you gotta show a little skin to keep 'em listening/fa real yo, the world is a sex machine." blackthought. "pussy galore".
5)"it's me against housing...no disrespect, my metaphors'll keep me out the projects." ghostface killah/superb. "ghost deini". (peace to TheWallyChamp for sonnin' me on the malquotation)

SNDTRK:
1)"a toast to the people". gil scott-heron/brian jackson.(the revolution won't be televised, but it does have theme music)
2)"sometimes". bilal.(post-extinction agenda stress relief)
3)"i am the black gold of the sun". rotary connection; nuyorican soul.(every version of this song radiates abstract pro-blackness)
4)"creole". charlie hunter quartet f/mos def.(¡frank sinatra ain't got no soul/mos def sounds like nat king cole!)
5)"time's up". oc.("you lack the minerals and vitamins/irons and the niacin/fuck who that i offend"-'nuff said)

okay p'ra verbs. GIVING YOU TRUE TRUTH SINCE...¿WHAT TIME IT IS?

« Slick Rick the Ruler in the Land of the Blind »

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                    
praverbs
Charter member
27156 posts
Sat Nov-24-01 11:19 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
32. ""
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

¿what do you mean, what do i mean by fair? you are the person who said cubans and others sneak over to america to get somewhat a fair chance. ¿and since we are talking about cuba, how is america better? we are talking about the 96% literate, universally health covered, black august hosting, assata refuging, baseball playing cuba. not the evil one america tells you about.


*****¡I AM! ¿ARE YOU?*****

QUOTABLES CIRCA 1984:
1)"orthodoxy is unconsciousness."-syme.
2)"who controls the past controls the future: who controls the present controls the past."-party slogan.
3)"perhaps a lunatic was simply a minority of one."-winston smith.
4)"the heresy of heresies was common sense."-narrator.
5)"until they (the proles) become conscious they will never rebel, and until after they have rebelled they cannot become conscious."-winston

THAT'S THEIR WORD:
1)"swimming the channels of life/we're orators of rhyme, handlin' mics/ tip-toeing through the corridors of your mind with candlelight." talib kweli. "respiration (flying high mix)".
2)"we ain't vote to get into this shit, so we won't vote to get out." welfare poets. "the bullet".
3)"i don't hate players: i hate the mayors." sticman. "cop shot".
4)"promoting everything from the liquor to the nicotine/cell phones, antihistamines, chicken wings/you gotta show a little skin to keep 'em listening/fa real yo, the world is a sex machine." blackthought. "pussy galore".
5)"it's me against housing...no disrespect, my metaphors'll keep me out the projects." ghostface killah/superb. "ghost deini". (peace to TheWallyChamp for sonnin' me on the malquotation)

SNDTRK:
1)"a toast to the people". gil scott-heron/brian jackson.(the revolution won't be televised, but it does have theme music)
2)"sometimes". bilal.(post-extinction agenda stress relief)
3)"i am the black gold of the sun". rotary connection; nuyorican soul.(every version of this song radiates abstract pro-blackness)
4)"creole". charlie hunter quartet f/mos def.(¡frank sinatra ain't got no soul/mos def sounds like nat king cole!)
5)"time's up". oc.("you lack the minerals and vitamins/irons and the niacin/fuck who that i offend"-'nuff said)

okay p'ra verbs. GIVING YOU TRUE TRUTH SINCE...¿WHAT TIME IT IS?

« Slick Rick the Ruler in the Land of the Blind »

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                        
laursen

Sat Nov-24-01 03:36 PM

  
35. ""
In response to Reply # 32


          

>¿what do you mean, what do
>i mean by fair?
oops, stupid question (by me), i did not review the previous thread before replying.

>you
>are the person who said
>cubans and others sneak over
>to america to get somewhat
>a fair chance. ¿and since
>we are talking about cuba,
>how is america better? we
>are talking about the 96%
>literate, universally health covered, black
>august hosting, assata refuging, baseball
>playing cuba. not the evil
>one america tells you about.
Capitalist reforms saved Cuba's economy after the fall of the Soviet Union. The USSR had been sending 5 billion dollars worth of aid every year to Cuba, and when that suddenly stopped overnight in '91 the GDP in Cuba dropped 35% in 4 years, poverty blossomed. What stopped that free-fall? Market-based (capitalist) reforms by the government such as a law allowing greatly increased foreign investment. In fact, capitalism worked so well that Cuba started heavily taxing all the newsprung businesses in '96. What keeps their country alive today? Tourism (people with money from other countries), and money sent by Cuban Americans. Both foreign sources, and together responsible for funding their health care and baseball parks.

By the way, please answer how capitalism does what you say it does.

http://www.lancetfluke.com

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                            
praverbs
Charter member
27156 posts
Sat Nov-24-01 04:20 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
37. "capitalism promotes underground economy..."
In response to Reply # 35


  

          

by hadicapping those rat-race runners born poor. the have-nots unfairly start miles behind the haves, and the only way they can catch up is by running three times harder or taking short-cuts (which can get them disqualified). unfortunately the have-nots are only human, so running three times harder is not possible for all. some find short-cuts (at the expense of the rest of the have-nots), but most of the cheaters are thrown out the race. most continue running with their all, but start to give when they realize that the gap between the haves and have-nots is not narrowing but widening (the extended length/harsher condition of their track takes it's toll on their endurance). when it comes time for the have-nots to relay the baton to their kids, they pray they are blessed with a fast anchor b/c the team is usually farther behind than before.

capitalism determines what lane we run in. and being that it is competitve by theory, it is designed to have a small winner's pool. while it has its superficial pros, it is no way to run a nation, which is in essence a community. there is no unity in competition.

p'ra verbs, author of "marxism for track runners".

*****¡I AM! ¿ARE YOU?*****

QUOTABLES CIRCA 1984:
1)"orthodoxy is unconsciousness."-syme.
2)"who controls the past controls the future: who controls the present controls the past."-party slogan.
3)"perhaps a lunatic was simply a minority of one."-winston smith.
4)"the heresy of heresies was common sense."-narrator.
5)"until they (the proles) become conscious they will never rebel, and until after they have rebelled they cannot become conscious."-winston

THAT'S THEIR WORD:
1)"swimming the channels of life/we're orators of rhyme, handlin' mics/ tip-toeing through the corridors of your mind with candlelight." talib kweli. "respiration (flying high mix)".
2)"we ain't vote to get into this shit, so we won't vote to get out." welfare poets. "the bullet".
3)"i don't hate players: i hate the mayors." sticman. "cop shot".
4)"promoting everything from the liquor to the nicotine/cell phones, antihistamines, chicken wings/you gotta show a little skin to keep 'em listening/fa real yo, the world is a sex machine." blackthought. "pussy galore".
5)"it's me against housing...no disrespect, my metaphors'll keep me out the projects." ghostface killah/superb. "ghost deini". (peace to TheWallyChamp for sonnin' me on the malquotation)

SNDTRK:
1)"a toast to the people". gil scott-heron/brian jackson.(the revolution won't be televised, but it does have theme music)
2)"sometimes". bilal.(post-extinction agenda stress relief)
3)"i am the black gold of the sun". rotary connection; nuyorican soul.(every version of this song radiates abstract pro-blackness)
4)"creole". charlie hunter quartet f/mos def.(¡frank sinatra ain't got no soul/mos def sounds like nat king cole!)
5)"time's up". oc.("you lack the minerals and vitamins/irons and the niacin/fuck who that i offend"-'nuff said)

okay p'ra verbs. GIVING YOU TRUE TRUTH SINCE...¿WHAT TIME IT IS?

« Slick Rick the Ruler in the Land of the Blind »

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
krewcial
Charter member
3268 posts
Thu Nov-22-01 01:28 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
10. "I disagree"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

>Why can't Donald Trump wear a
>Malcom X T-Shirt? He's not
>a proven racist is he?

It would be very contradictory, and I'm sure plenty of people respecting the work of Malcolm X would consider it unacceptable.

Not cos Trump is white, or would be racist, but because he personifies materialism and capitalist America, something Malcolm was fighting.

So it would make no sense, and I'd consider it very ignorant of Trump to do such a thing. I wouldn't start thinking 'hey maybe Trump is an okay guy after all' LOL.

>Jay-Z wore that Che Guevera t-shirt
>probably because
>1)it looked good. it's obviously not
>your print shop run off.
>looks like a brand to
>me.

>2)he wanted to intentionally prove a
>point i.e. can't judge a
>book by the cover.

If that's what he's trying to prove, he better live up to it.

It's easy to wear a shirt with a revolutionary face on it, as an excuse for the fact that you don't do a single thing in real life. Or that you're doing the complete opposite. It's much harder to actually live up to what you claim by wearing that shirt.

He's not making me think 'you can't judge a book by the cover', he makes me think 'Jay-Z, you're just a big opportunist who's making a fool out of himself, with no respect whatsoever for Che Guevara's philosophy and legacy'.

To me this just shows how arrogant some people are : they think they can pimp anything.

Either that, or Jay-Z has no idea who Che Guevara is, maybe that's less shameful.

>Che might have actually liked Jay-Z
>if he were still alive.
>Or at least he would
>definitely not see him as
>the enemy.

Not sure about that. I think Che had more sympathy for what the Black Panthers were doing, and I'm pretty sure the Panthers wouldn't be Jay-Z fans, with him promoting drugs and pimping, two of the things they were trying to get rid of.

>p.s. what Jay-Z choses to rap
>about is a whole other
>issue. But let's just say
>he is selling a product
>and people are buying it.

That's an excuse. The very same excuse pimps and drug dealers use to justify what they do. The same excuse gun manufacturers and child porn movie makers use. I'm not equating Jay-Z with those people, just trying to show you that that is NOT an argument ... just cos people buy it doesn't make it right.



krewc
www.vinylators.com

krewcial
www.krewcial.com
www.myspace.com/krewcial
www.okayplayer.com/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=23051&forum=lesson

http://www.23hq.com/krewcial/photo/1085564?album_id=1085556

Nashville recording sessions : www.krewcial.com/nashville

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

Federisco
Charter member
5002 posts
Thu Nov-22-01 06:41 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
3. "common"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I see your point krewcial (i like your okayplayer song too, you are very good! i have to tell you now that i got the chance...)

But i've seen common wearing a che guevera shirt too (i have a photo for proof if you want ).. perhaps there is a big difference between Common and Jay Z inside the hiphop world. But both are rappers trying to sell their work.. and both happen to wear a che guevera shirt.

yep

░▒▓█▌¹♥▐█▓▒░

proud okayphotographer: http://www.okayplayer.com/okayphotographers/

"Most of our assumptions have outlived their uselessness." — Marshall McLuhan

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
krewcial
Charter member
3268 posts
Thu Nov-22-01 01:41 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
12. "actually"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

I have serious doubts about anybody wearing a shirt with a political icon on it, especially if that's the only thing they're doing.

But I think there's a huge difference between Jay-Z doing another album about pimping and dealing, and Com making an album that includes "Song For Assata".

I don't wanna turn this into a Com vs Jay-Z post, but I think everyone can see the difference.

And I'm pretty sure Huey P. Newton would call out Jay-Z today.
It just shows how we've all gotten used to capitalism, and don't even see the problem anymore.


krewc
www.vinylators.com

krewcial
www.krewcial.com
www.myspace.com/krewcial
www.okayplayer.com/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=23051&forum=lesson

http://www.23hq.com/krewcial/photo/1085564?album_id=1085556

Nashville recording sessions : www.krewcial.com/nashville

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
Federisco
Charter member
5002 posts
Fri Nov-23-01 07:54 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
19. "i was saying"
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

What they have in common (...almost litterally).
on the surface they have very much in common

I dont know enough history or hiphop ethics to say anything else about it.. let the discussion go on ->>

░▒▓█▌¹♥▐█▓▒░

proud okayphotographer: http://www.okayplayer.com/okayphotographers/

"Most of our assumptions have outlived their uselessness." — Marshall McLuhan

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

praverbs
Charter member
27156 posts
Thu Nov-22-01 03:34 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
13. "i pimp emoticons."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

:-) X( }> :'(

¡betta have my money!

*****¡I AM! ¿ARE YOU?*****

QUOTABLES CIRCA 1984:
1)"orthodoxy is unconsciousness."-syme.
2)"who controls the past controls the future: who controls the present controls the past."-party slogan.
3)"perhaps a lunatic was simply a minority of one."-winston smith.
4)"the heresy of heresies was common sense."-narrator.
5)"until they (the proles) become conscious they will never rebel, and until after they have rebelled they cannot become conscious."-winston

THAT'S THEIR WORD:
1)"swimming the channels of life/we're orators of rhyme, handlin' mics/ tip-toeing through the corridors of your mind with candlelight." talib kweli. "respiration (flying high mix)".
2)"we ain't vote to get into this shit, so we won't vote to get out." welfare poets. "the bullet".
3)"i don't hate players: i hate the mayors." sticman. "cop shot".
4)"promoting everything from the liquor to the nicotine/cell phones, antihistamines, chicken wings/you gotta show a little skin to keep 'em listening/fa real yo, the world is a sex machine." blackthought. "pussy galore".
5)"it's me against housing...no disrespect, my metaphors'll keep me out the projects." ghostface killah/superb. "ghost deini". (peace to TheWallyChamp for sonnin' me on the malquotation)

SNDTRK:
1)"a toast to the people". gil scott-heron/brian jackson.(the revolution won't be televised, but it does have theme music)
2)"sometimes". bilal.(post-extinction agenda stress relief)
3)"i am the black gold of the sun". rotary connection; nuyorican soul.(every version of this song radiates abstract pro-blackness)
4)"creole". charlie hunter quartet f/mos def.(¡frank sinatra ain't got no soul/mos def sounds like nat king cole!)
5)"time's up". oc.("you lack the minerals and vitamins/irons and the niacin/fuck who that i offend"-'nuff said)

okay p'ra verbs. GIVING YOU TRUE TRUTH SINCE...¿WHAT TIME IT IS?

« Slick Rick the Ruler in the Land of the Blind »

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
praverbs
Charter member
27156 posts
Thu Nov-22-01 03:39 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
14. "x("
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

*pimp slaps the angry face icon*

¡you best get in line! ¿who's stable you belong to?

*****¡I AM! ¿ARE YOU?*****

QUOTABLES CIRCA 1984:
1)"orthodoxy is unconsciousness."-syme.
2)"who controls the past controls the future: who controls the present controls the past."-party slogan.
3)"perhaps a lunatic was simply a minority of one."-winston smith.
4)"the heresy of heresies was common sense."-narrator.
5)"until they (the proles) become conscious they will never rebel, and until after they have rebelled they cannot become conscious."-winston

THAT'S THEIR WORD:
1)"swimming the channels of life/we're orators of rhyme, handlin' mics/ tip-toeing through the corridors of your mind with candlelight." talib kweli. "respiration (flying high mix)".
2)"we ain't vote to get into this shit, so we won't vote to get out." welfare poets. "the bullet".
3)"i don't hate players: i hate the mayors." sticman. "cop shot".
4)"promoting everything from the liquor to the nicotine/cell phones, antihistamines, chicken wings/you gotta show a little skin to keep 'em listening/fa real yo, the world is a sex machine." blackthought. "pussy galore".
5)"it's me against housing...no disrespect, my metaphors'll keep me out the projects." ghostface killah/superb. "ghost deini". (peace to TheWallyChamp for sonnin' me on the malquotation)

SNDTRK:
1)"a toast to the people". gil scott-heron/brian jackson.(the revolution won't be televised, but it does have theme music)
2)"sometimes". bilal.(post-extinction agenda stress relief)
3)"i am the black gold of the sun". rotary connection; nuyorican soul.(every version of this song radiates abstract pro-blackness)
4)"creole". charlie hunter quartet f/mos def.(¡frank sinatra ain't got no soul/mos def sounds like nat king cole!)
5)"time's up". oc.("you lack the minerals and vitamins/irons and the niacin/fuck who that i offend"-'nuff said)

okay p'ra verbs. GIVING YOU TRUE TRUTH SINCE...¿WHAT TIME IT IS?

« Slick Rick the Ruler in the Land of the Blind »

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
praverbs
Charter member
27156 posts
Thu Nov-22-01 03:40 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
15. "..."
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

one mo gin.

*****¡I AM! ¿ARE YOU?*****

QUOTABLES CIRCA 1984:
1)"orthodoxy is unconsciousness."-syme.
2)"who controls the past controls the future: who controls the present controls the past."-party slogan.
3)"perhaps a lunatic was simply a minority of one."-winston smith.
4)"the heresy of heresies was common sense."-narrator.
5)"until they (the proles) become conscious they will never rebel, and until after they have rebelled they cannot become conscious."-winston

THAT'S THEIR WORD:
1)"swimming the channels of life/we're orators of rhyme, handlin' mics/ tip-toeing through the corridors of your mind with candlelight." talib kweli. "respiration (flying high mix)".
2)"we ain't vote to get into this shit, so we won't vote to get out." welfare poets. "the bullet".
3)"i don't hate players: i hate the mayors." sticman. "cop shot".
4)"promoting everything from the liquor to the nicotine/cell phones, antihistamines, chicken wings/you gotta show a little skin to keep 'em listening/fa real yo, the world is a sex machine." blackthought. "pussy galore".
5)"it's me against housing...no disrespect, my metaphors'll keep me out the projects." ghostface killah/superb. "ghost deini". (peace to TheWallyChamp for sonnin' me on the malquotation)

SNDTRK:
1)"a toast to the people". gil scott-heron/brian jackson.(the revolution won't be televised, but it does have theme music)
2)"sometimes". bilal.(post-extinction agenda stress relief)
3)"i am the black gold of the sun". rotary connection; nuyorican soul.(every version of this song radiates abstract pro-blackness)
4)"creole". charlie hunter quartet f/mos def.(¡frank sinatra ain't got no soul/mos def sounds like nat king cole!)
5)"time's up". oc.("you lack the minerals and vitamins/irons and the niacin/fuck who that i offend"-'nuff said)

okay p'ra verbs. GIVING YOU TRUE TRUTH SINCE...¿WHAT TIME IT IS?

« Slick Rick the Ruler in the Land of the Blind »

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
moshe

Thu Nov-22-01 04:38 PM

  
16. "RE: ..."
In response to Reply # 15


          

hey AZ, where did you get that ariel sharon quote from and do you actually think that's true?


  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
soundsop
Charter member
12988 posts
Thu Nov-29-01 03:47 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
68. "hey AZ"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

won't you play that song?
keep me fucked up (fucked up)
all night long

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

LexM
Charter member
28342 posts
Fri Nov-23-01 11:18 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
21. "maybe"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

he was just tryin to be funny

or maybe he's sick of the same ol' same ol.

either way, who knows, who cares...at least he probably made somebody look up who he was.

*shrug*

_________________________________________________________
*moment of silence for all those lost & those yet to be found*

"i abound with shelectricity..." ~~ursula rucker

~~~~
http://omidele.blogspot.com/
http://rahareiki.tumblr.com/
http://seatofbliss.blogspot.com/

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

timberghost
Charter member
158 posts
Fri Nov-23-01 11:22 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
22. "RE: pimping icons"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I thought it was fucked up that jay-z was wearing a che guevara shirt. He obviously does not follow the ideals of che.

I also think that it is fucked up that any shirt is sold because it has che guevara on it. That is using che's face as a marketing tool, so it can be sold for profit in a capitalistic society. That is something that he would despise

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
laursen

Fri Nov-23-01 04:08 PM

  
24. "RE: pimping icons"
In response to Reply # 22


          

>I thought it was fucked up
>that jay-z was wearing a
>che guevara shirt. He obviously
>does not follow the ideals
>of che.
>
>I also think that it is
>fucked up that any shirt
>is sold because it has
>che guevara on it. That
>is using che's face as
>a marketing tool, so it
>can be sold for profit
>in a capitalistic society. That
>is something that he would
>despise

It's an image. Everything is reduced to an image for the nice happy people to understand. Smile

http://www.lancetfluke.com

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
Federisco
Charter member
5002 posts
Sat Nov-24-01 08:10 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
29. "it's not just an image"
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

The photographer who took it was a world known photographer, and fidel's good friend and photographer. the che photo was sent around the world (after a german journalist saw it hanging on the wall in the photographer's office) and used as a symbol for a fight of the people.. there's still being made murals with that picture of che.

I read about the photographer (who just died), he said he didn't mind his work being used for such, because it was used for a good cause, a people's fight (he said something like that, i think). But i doubt he'd like to see Jay-Z wearing it on MTV if Jay-Z does it only for fashion, or pretty much any cause other than a fight of the people

yep.... IF jay-z sports his Che shirt to look cool, he's mos def. not showing respect to the photographer! It's an artistic work... plus i doubt the photographer likes his work being used as a part of the capitalistic system (e.g. used to give Jay-Z a greater listening crowd.. IF that's why he did it)

░▒▓█▌¹♥▐█▓▒░

proud okayphotographer: http://www.okayplayer.com/okayphotographers/

"Most of our assumptions have outlived their uselessness." — Marshall McLuhan

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
Federisco
Charter member
5002 posts
Sat Nov-24-01 08:14 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
30. "i meant"
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

>The photographer who took it

...the photographer who shot it (it whatever "making a photo" is called)

░▒▓█▌¹♥▐█▓▒░

proud okayphotographer: http://www.okayplayer.com/okayphotographers/

"Most of our assumptions have outlived their uselessness." — Marshall McLuhan

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
DMang
Charter member
25 posts
Fri Dec-07-01 04:21 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
69. "RE: pimping icons"
In response to Reply # 22


          

I have a Che Guevera t-shirt that my parents brought me back from Cuba. Is that okay to wear?

This argument is ridiculous.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

Sunday
Charter member
1781 posts
Sat Nov-24-01 04:25 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
38. "here's the explanation:"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

jay-z is not cool. che is cool. jay not tryna send a political message... he's trying to appeal to all the actually cool ppl out there that don't think he's cool.

seriously now, che's memory is bein pimped (and not just by jay-z - that motherfucker just a big ole hypocrite)

sunny

!ya basta!

"the 'centre' asks us, demands of us, that we should sign a peace agreement quickly and convert ourselves into an 'institutional' political force, that is to say, convert ourselves into yet another part of the machinery of power. to them we answer 'NO' and they do not understand it. they do not understand that we are not in agreement with those ideas. they do not understand that we do not want offices or posts in the gov't. they do not understand that we are stuggling not for the stairs to be swept clean from the top to the bottom, but for there to be no stairs, for there to be no kingdom at all."

-Zapatista statement-

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
Koku
Charter member
71257 posts
Wed Nov-28-01 03:15 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
61. "The "cool" people"
In response to Reply # 38


  

          

you speak of already think Jay-Z is cool.
He doesn't need to be validated by them.
He gets respect from all of his peers.

You saw how Black Thought gave him so much
love on BET.
_______________________________________________________________

You are on a Need to Know basis for the following and the following only:

-My Guitar's name is The Fuck?™
-TV Funhouse on Comedy Central
-Jimi Hendrix "Voodoo Soup"
-http://www.kodefendant.com
-Fear & Loathing in Las Vegas

How did I get here?

Official Spokesperson for The Straights

---

@kokupuff

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

LordLadypharr
Charter member
3467 posts
Sat Nov-24-01 10:31 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
39. "Jay-Z"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

despite his stage persona is a very intelligent well versed man.
so i would not doubt he was rocking the shirt to make a statement.
Jay rather i should say shawn cater is just and deep and meaningful as the next consious cat...
_______________________________________
http://pharraoh.diaryland.com
_______________________________________

_______________________________________

01001101-01011001-00100000-01001110-01000001-01001101-01000101-00100000-01001001-01010011-00100000-01001100-01001001-01001100-01001100-01001001-01000001-01001110-00100000-00001101-00001010-01000001-01001110-0100010

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
jenNjuice
Charter member
3527 posts
Sun Nov-25-01 05:34 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
42. "RE: Jay-Z"
In response to Reply # 39


          

you call a black man referring to african women as animals a conscious man?wtf.

"The only thing we wanted for our country was the right to a decent existence, to dignity without hypocrisy , to independence without restrictions... The day will come when history will have its say."-Lumumba

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
Closed_Capshun
Charter member
1487 posts
Sun Nov-25-01 07:24 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
43. "RE: Jay-Z"
In response to Reply # 42


  

          

>you call a black man referring
>to african women as animals
>a conscious man?wtf.

apparently you listen to music halfheartedly or you just don't get it.

In the song he was using the words of the fictional African "Girl" asking, "Jiggaman, why you treat me like animal?"
he did not refer to African women as such-and more, check out Eddie Murphy "Raw"



Life is just a moment in time...

-The Pharcyde

_____________________________

Shaq ain't Shaq if he's averaging 20 points.

- Shaq


The game is country, I came to bring the city back...

- Mase

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
Solarus
Charter member
3604 posts
Mon Nov-26-01 05:52 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
45. "This Indian "squaw""
In response to Reply # 43


  

          

Akwaaba

"I asked her what tribe you wit/
Red dot or feather."

Nuff said.

SE wo werE fi na wosankofa a yenkyi.

Akoneaba ne agoro
solarICE

"actually... one thing about Africa is that we don't have a problem with leaving some questions unanswered. we understand that life MUST have some mystery and romance..."- AFKAP_of_Darkness

And one more thing:
I AM NOT UTAMAROHO AND HIS VIEWS DON'T NECESSARILY REFLECT MINE!!!

____________________________
"the real pyramids were built with such precision that you can't slide a piece of paper between two 4,000 lb stones, and have shafts perfectly aligned so that you can see a tiny aperture through dozens of these mammoth blocks

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
Closed_Capshun
Charter member
1487 posts
Mon Nov-26-01 04:46 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
51. "RE: This Indian "squaw""
In response to Reply # 45


  

          

>Akwaaba
>
>"I asked her what tribe you
>wit/
>Red dot or feather."
>
>Nuff said.

offensive indeed-while I agree, the point you raised has to be set aside; the discussion was centered on Jay's reference to African women-in that context, he did not refer to the woman as an animal

she asked why he was treating her "like animal" -a crystal clear distinction




Life is just a moment in time...

-The Pharcyde

_____________________________

Shaq ain't Shaq if he's averaging 20 points.

- Shaq


The game is country, I came to bring the city back...

- Mase

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
jenNjuice
Charter member
3527 posts
Mon Nov-26-01 07:00 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
52. "RE: Jay-Z"
In response to Reply # 43


          

i seen e.m-"raw"-i found that shit offensive too-excuse me as an african woman

>she asked why he was treating her "like animal" -a crystal clear distinction>

lol.

who is "she"?

jay-z right-personifying a image of an african girl-what you call "fictional"-still giving her real attributes-

implying that she is an animal (she should be treated as such)-because when he met her she was dead broke and naked and now (she) wants half.

are these not stereotypical images of african people?

nuff said-




"The only thing we wanted for our country was the right to a decent existence, to dignity without hypocrisy , to independence without restrictions... The day will come when history will have its say."-Lumumba

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
urbgriot
Charter member
11445 posts
Wed Nov-28-01 06:53 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
64. "it's humor"
In response to Reply # 52


          

all while it might be offensive.. It is still used for humor. actually the line is rather witty it being taken from Eddie Murphy Raw that is...

Yes it is offensive and promotes sterotypes a plenty (the entire song no doubt) but it is a playful song I don't think it should be taken so seriously...

and we are all apart of the Afrikan Diaspora...

https://twitter.com/onnextlevel

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                    
jenNjuice
Charter member
3527 posts
Wed Nov-28-01 02:12 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
67. "RE: it's humor"
In response to Reply # 64


          

so did you find the auburn situation "humorous"-

better yet do you find white people calling black people "jungle bunnies, coons, monkeys" funny as well-

and if its all "funny" than any black person shouldn't find that offensive at all-right?

"The only thing we wanted for our country was the right to a decent existence, to dignity without hypocrisy , to independence without restrictions... The day will come when history will have its say."-Lumumba

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                        
KemetShakur

Sun Dec-09-01 01:06 PM

  
72. "Some white cat,"
In response to Reply # 67


          

called me a "funky lookin nigger" and said it was a joke. Whether he was joking or not it was and is totally unacceptable to say things like that in jest or in any seriousness...and that whiteboy is still gettin a corkscrew in the eye. One Love, Kemet Shakur.




AIM: KemetShakur

all rise for the honorable judge, Bartholemew Holda Niggadown..*grunt*.
the third.- bailiff "The Carnival

Wherever the negro face appears a tension is created, the tension of a silence filled with things unutterable.- James Baldwin

Thank GOD i'm not a cracker!- me

i'll tell you this: there ain't no 'i' in team but there is an 'i' in "i smoked your ass". -Dude from that mixtape commercial

Says right there in the constitution..we the people..to uh, keep shit straight.....stop bothering me. -Jaime Foxx "bait"

instead of a war on poverty/ they got a war on drugs so tha police can bother me.- Tupac Shakur "changes"

Mary/ had a little/ little lamb/ his fleece was white as/ and it's lamb chops for life.

Load it up and cock 'em/ read to rock 'em sock 'em -Redman
" Y.O.U"

Too many wanna be hard, be easy- Method Man"Da Rockwilder"

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

Koku
Charter member
71257 posts
Mon Nov-26-01 05:24 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
44. "Easy...."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

What says Jay-Z knows nothing about Che Guevara?
And isn't everybody a hypocrite to some extent?
Lay off the brother.
_______________________________________________________________

You are on a Need to Know basis for the following and the following only:

-My Guitar's name is The Fuck?™
-TV Funhouse on Comedy Central
-Jimi Hendrix "Voodoo Soup"
-http://www.kodefendant.com
-Fear & Loathing in Las Vegas

How did I get here?

---

@kokupuff

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
krewcial
Charter member
3268 posts
Mon Nov-26-01 06:17 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
46. "if he DOES know"
In response to Reply # 44


  

          

what Che Guevara stands for, that makes it even worse IMO, cos it's the complete opposite of everything Jay-Z's music and image stands for.



krewc


>And isn't everybody a hypocrite to
>some extent?

What are you saying ?

First : "he's not necessarily a hypocrite", then : "even if he is, that's OK".

Are you suggesting we don't debate anything anymore, since there will always be something or someone doing worse ?



krewc
www.vinylators.com

krewcial
www.krewcial.com
www.myspace.com/krewcial
www.okayplayer.com/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=23051&forum=lesson

http://www.23hq.com/krewcial/photo/1085564?album_id=1085556

Nashville recording sessions : www.krewcial.com/nashville

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
Koku
Charter member
71257 posts
Wed Nov-28-01 03:06 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
58. "What I'm witnessing here...."
In response to Reply # 46


  

          

is a lot of armchair activists shaking their
pointer finger at Jay-Z like he has committed
the most vile and horrible act by being aware
of who Che Guevara was---and wearing a Che
Guevara t-shirt. What doesn't Jay-Z know about
Che Guevara? You don't know!

>what Che Guevara stands for, that
>makes it even worse IMO,
>cos it's the complete opposite
>of everything Jay-Z's music and
>image stands for.

Jay-Z's music and image are not a complete part
of his person. They are what >we< the public
see, but we don't know all facets of him.

I really don't know what is so wrong about Jay-Z
knowing about Che Guevara, and I actually hope he
just borrowed the t-shirt from someone because he
thought it was cute. Cause it ain't that damn
serious.

>>And isn't everybody a hypocrite to
>>some extent?
>
>What are you saying ?
>
>First : "he's not necessarily a
>hypocrite", then : "even if
>he is, that's OK".

What I am saying is that there are different sides
to a person. What isn't okay for you, might be
perfectly okay for me. In your eyes he may not be
a revolutionary or an intelligent man, but his friends
and family might know him as just that.
>
>Are you suggesting we don't debate
>anything anymore, since there will
>always be something or someone
>doing worse ?

What I'm suggesting is that Jay-Z was wearing a Che
Guevara T-shirt. I think that's a lot less severe
of a 'crime' then watching a Muslim guzzle shots of
Jaeger and smoke hydro.

Like I said....lay off the brother. You have no idea
where he vests his interests, and what he is doing in
totality for his community.

Everybody wants to come down on someone when they are
willing to open up their eyes. You're not the Original
Backpacker or Incense Burner Extraordinare.

How about we just stab Vanity for discovering God, and
lick shots at Gangsta Boo for becoming a "Lady".

We are not a perfect people. This includes you, you, and
you.
_______________________________________________________________

You are on a Need to Know basis for the following and the following only:

-My Guitar's name is The Fuck?™
-TV Funhouse on Comedy Central
-Jimi Hendrix "Voodoo Soup"
-http://www.kodefendant.com
-Fear & Loathing in Las Vegas

How did I get here?

Official Spokesperson for The Straights

---

@kokupuff

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
krewcial
Charter member
3268 posts
Sun Dec-09-01 02:46 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
70. "yeah sure"
In response to Reply # 58


  

          

>is a lot of armchair activists

and you're calling me judgemental ? LOL
do you know me ?

>Jay-Z's music and image are not
>a complete part
>of his person. They are what >we< the public
>see, but we don't know all
>facets of him.

Agree, but that is what he chooses to let us see and know, so he shouldn't be surprised when people react to that and notice the conflict between his image as an artist and other things he chooses to do.

And I never claimed to know 'the person' Jay-Z. If you re-read my comments, you'll see that my criticism is addressed to the artist Jay-Z and what he chooses to promote and portray.

>I really don't know what is
>so wrong about Jay-Z
>knowing about Che Guevara, and I
>actually hope he
>just borrowed the t-shirt from someone
>because he
>thought it was cute. Cause
>it ain't that damn
>serious.

Chill, it ain't that serious to me either. I honestly hope you don't think I wake up every morning thinking 'damn, he disgraced Che's legacy !', and write anti-Jay-Z graffiti all over my city's walls. LOL

>What I am saying is that
>there are different sides
>to a person. What isn't
>okay for you, might be
>perfectly okay for me. In
>your eyes he may not
>be a revolutionary or an intelligent man,
>but his friends
>and family might know him as
>just that.

Yes, and ? Does this mean I'm not entitled to speak my mind ?
Like I don't know that there's 'different sides to a person' ... you probably think I'm a 16 year old who just picked up Malcolm X's biography ...

>What I'm suggesting is that Jay-Z
>was wearing a Che
>Guevara T-shirt. I think that's
>a lot less severe
>of a 'crime' then watching a
>Muslim guzzle shots of
>Jaeger and smoke hydro.

Yeah, and compared to the atrocities committed in Afghanistan it means nothing.

Does this mean we shouldn't discuss it ? I suggest we all stop bitching about our parents dying from cancer someday too then, since it's all so futile compared to world hunger, or the Iraq embargo.

There will always be something worse than what you're discussing or venting about ... but I don't think that's a reason to stop discussing it.

>Like I said....lay off the brother.
>You have no idea
>where he vests his interests, and
>what he is doing in
>totality for his community.

Do you have an idea ? If so, why not share it ?

The thing is : you can't promote pimping and dealing 24/7, and then do the exact same thing with a Che shirt and NOT expect people to react to that.

If Jay chooses to be a spokesperson for capitalism and materialism, so be it and more power to him. To each his own. But don't expect me to give him props just cos he wears a Che shirt all of a sudden. Especially when his message/lyrics haven't changed a single bit, or cos he knows "Top Billin'" by heart (not even that LOL).

>Everybody wants to come down on
>someone when they are
>willing to open up their eyes.
>You're not the Original
>Backpacker or Incense Burner Extraordinare.

LOL. When did I claim to be so ?

>We are not a perfect people.
>This includes you, you, and
>you.

And you. And Jay-Z. LOL.

Just playing with ya.



krewc
www.vinylators.com

krewcial
www.krewcial.com
www.myspace.com/krewcial
www.okayplayer.com/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=23051&forum=lesson

http://www.23hq.com/krewcial/photo/1085564?album_id=1085556

Nashville recording sessions : www.krewcial.com/nashville

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
LordLadypharr
Charter member
3467 posts
Tue Nov-27-01 06:17 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
57. "tell'em koku..."
In response to Reply # 44


  

          


_______________________________________
http://pharraoh.diaryland.com
_______________________________________

_______________________________________

01001101-01011001-00100000-01001110-01000001-01001101-01000101-00100000-01001001-01010011-00100000-01001100-01001001-01001100-01001100-01001001-01000001-01001110-00100000-00001101-00001010-01000001-01001110-0100010

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

Ape Redwood
Charter member
6088 posts
Mon Nov-26-01 01:32 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
47. "first off"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I would say Jay's latest album shows that he is no longer trying to be one of materialism's main representatives. That is, if you actually listen to it carefully with an open mind. Secondly, I dont think Jay's wearing the shirt is a marketing move. Who says Jay is trying to get in good with the "conscious" fanbase? He's never made any other moves to grab up that part of the market. Third, anyone who spends or earns money in this system is a CAPITALIST. Point blank. Fourth, at least Jay wearing it will get some kid some where to look up Che's name. Methinks Jay read about Che and admired him. Thats probly why he wore the shirt. Actually I think the irony is pretty funny.

---------
Alex

I'm on a double-straw date sippin'
Yoo-Hoo with yo' ho.


---------------------
Thursday, June 17th
Dujeous @ Bowery Ballroom
6 Delancey Street (at Bowery)
w/Addison Groove Project &
Gutbucket
10PM~$13
DUJEOUS debut LP "CITY
LIMITS" INSTOSNOW.
Buy my shit.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
castro78
Charter member
66 posts
Mon Nov-26-01 03:23 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via ICQ
48. "RE: first off"
In response to Reply # 47


  

          

....comparin jay and com ? dis must be joke.

r u also tryin 2 compare achebe and hitler as writers, just tryin` to sell their books?

i know...takin hitler was just 2 show the point.

big up



*******************************
>never question my relevance
that`s manifested on elements,
take hip-hop and develop it
by injecting intelligence<

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
never question my relevance
that's manifested in elements
take hip-hop and develop it
by injecting intelligence

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
Ape Redwood
Charter member
6088 posts
Mon Nov-26-01 03:54 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
49. "?"
In response to Reply # 48


  

          

is this is a reply to my post?


---------
Alex

I'm on a double-straw date sippin'
Yoo-Hoo with yo' ho.


---------------------
Thursday, June 17th
Dujeous @ Bowery Ballroom
6 Delancey Street (at Bowery)
w/Addison Groove Project &
Gutbucket
10PM~$13
DUJEOUS debut LP "CITY
LIMITS" INSTOSNOW.
Buy my shit.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
Koku
Charter member
71257 posts
Wed Nov-28-01 03:08 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
59. "It certainly had nothing to do w/"
In response to Reply # 49


  

          

your aforementioned statement.

Who knows what the kid was talking about.
_______________________________________________________________

You are on a Need to Know basis for the following and the following only:

-My Guitar's name is The Fuck?™
-TV Funhouse on Comedy Central
-Jimi Hendrix "Voodoo Soup"
-http://www.kodefendant.com
-Fear & Loathing in Las Vegas

How did I get here?

Official Spokesperson for The Straights

---

@kokupuff

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
krewcial
Charter member
3268 posts
Wed Nov-28-01 06:42 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
63. "strange logic"
In response to Reply # 47


  

          

>anyone who spends
>or earns money in this
>system is a CAPITALIST. Point
>blank.

Agreed.

However, you seem to imply that this means noone can be criticized for doing so ? And that every person criticizing should be ignored since they're "guilty" themselves ?

Does this mean that every single person in Germany during WWII was a Nazi ? That every person in America is responsible for the killing of Sudanese people in '98, when Clinton bombed them (since you all contributed with tax money) ? That every individual in Belgium in 1960-1962 was responsible for the killing of Lumumba ?

In your logic, are Dead Prez as capitalist as Vanilla Ice ? (just asking)

I tend to make a difference between people who have no choice (mainly becos of financial reasons) but to take part in a capitalist society, some of them even trying to change it (as opposed to simply running away and then criticizing) and other people participating without questioning the ethical and moral consequences of this system. And then another group, who operate as spokespeople/representatives for capitalism/materialism, and I consider Jay-Z one of those.

In your definition, Michael Moore and Donald Trump are both capitalists (correct me if I'm wrong). To me, there's a huge difference between those two. Same story with Chuck D. and Jay-Z.



krewc
www.vinylators.com

krewcial
www.krewcial.com
www.myspace.com/krewcial
www.okayplayer.com/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=23051&forum=lesson

http://www.23hq.com/krewcial/photo/1085564?album_id=1085556

Nashville recording sessions : www.krewcial.com/nashville

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
Ape Redwood
Charter member
6088 posts
Wed Nov-28-01 08:12 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
65. "you're right too"
In response to Reply # 63


  

          

I was just throwing some counterpoint at you.

>
>However, you seem to imply that
>this means noone can be
>criticized for doing so ?

No, I don't imply this. Actually I think ALL of us SHOULD be criticized for implicitly supporting capitalism. Especially those of us who know better.

> And that every person
>criticizing should be ignored since
>they're "guilty" themselves ?

No, i was just pointing out that everyone contributes to capitalism. And unless you undermine capitalism as well, through your activism, organizing, preaching, etc., enough to balance out your support of it, it is rather hypocritical. Ill be the first to admit that I am a hypocrite in this light.

>
>Does this mean that every single
>person in Germany during WWII
>was a Nazi ?

most of them did support Nazism through their actions, just like most of us support capitalism

>That every person in America
>is responsible for the killing
>of Sudanese people in '98,
>when Clinton bombed them (since
>you all contributed with tax
>money) ?

partially, yes

That every
>individual in Belgium in 1960-1962
>was responsible for the killing
>of Lumumba ?

partially yes

>
>In your logic, are Dead Prez
>as capitalist as Vanilla Ice
>? (just asking)

Some degree of support of capitalism is required for survivial in modern society. Think of all the money dp has pumped into the pockets of Loud and Sony. However, one could argue that dp compensates for this through their message and their activism, which does undermine capitalism to an extent. I guess, this would make them "less capitalist" than Vanilla Ice, who not only supported the system more (more album sales) but didnt speak out against it blanace out his support.

>
>I tend to make a difference
>between people who have no
>choice (mainly becos of financial
>reasons) but to take part
>in a capitalist society, some
>of them even trying to
>change it (as opposed to
>simply running away and then
>criticizing) and other people participating
>without questioning the ethical and
>moral consequences of this system.

true

> And then another group,
>who operate as spokespeople/representatives for
>capitalism/materialism, and I consider Jay-Z
>one of those.

I guess it would be hard to disagree with that. However, in light of his latest album, it could be that Jay-Z is trying to change for the better. Hopefully.

>
>In your definition, Michael Moore and
>Donald Trump are both capitalists
>(correct me if I'm wrong).

Yes, to differing degrees.

---------------------
Thursday, June 17th
Dujeous @ Bowery Ballroom
6 Delancey Street (at Bowery)
w/Addison Groove Project &
Gutbucket
10PM~$13
DUJEOUS debut LP "CITY
LIMITS" INSTOSNOW.
Buy my shit.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
krewcial
Charter member
3268 posts
Wed Nov-28-01 09:31 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
66. "thanks"
In response to Reply # 65


  

          

for explaining your POV


krewc
www.vinylators.com

krewcial
www.krewcial.com
www.myspace.com/krewcial
www.okayplayer.com/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=23051&forum=lesson

http://www.23hq.com/krewcial/photo/1085564?album_id=1085556

Nashville recording sessions : www.krewcial.com/nashville

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

PlucK
Charter member
488 posts
Mon Nov-26-01 04:09 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
50. "Yall gon kick me outta OA but..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

Doesn't Jay's Che sweater(if you turn the screen to the right a little and squint reeeal hard)Kinda look like Quest.

I donno, maybe it was the way it was stitched or sumthin. Orrrrmaybe I need to take a chill pill





ace boon-koon-(n.) 1.Slang reference to a friend, comrade, or homie. 2.Friends who spend great amounts of time together while embarking upon adventures.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

NewBorn202
Charter member
45673 posts
Mon Nov-26-01 08:22 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
53. "RE: pimping icons"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I don't think that it's fair to judge anybody by what they wear. People should be judged by their actions. Would Jay-Z be shot down if he was consistently spitting "concious" lyrics while wearing Gucci, Iceberg, Versace etc. I hope not. His lyrics and actions should be open to harsh scrutiny. What he wears while he recites them should not.

---
We From A Place
Where Dem Boys Still Pimpin' Them Hoes
We From A Place
Cadillacs Still Ridin' On Vogues
We From A Place
Where My Soul Still Don't Feel Free
Where A Flag Means More Than Me(IN MISSISSIPPI)

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
the root
Charter member
1380 posts
Tue Nov-27-01 01:06 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
54. "disagree"
In response to Reply # 53


  

          

his visual presentation is not accidental, it is planned and therefore we have every right to critique it esp when it invokes someone like che. Artistry, esp with someone like Jay is about image. He wants a response when he wears something like that.

"The task of philosophy is learning how to die." - Socrates

"If you live day to day then you probably live life more than a cat who got a Benz bankroll and a wife cuz yo I've seen a lot of folks who's so called success = depressed and look up to broke peeps who hold the mik now." -Evidence

"Damn, it IS scary, but there is no shame in caring. Really. There is no shame in finding someone attractive and wanting to connect with them. The shame is in not thinking yourself worthy enough to start that conversation in the first place."
-Okayplayer Janey

the imperfect is our paradise - wallace stevens

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
krewcial
Charter member
3268 posts
Tue Nov-27-01 02:20 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
55. "lol"
In response to Reply # 53


  

          

>Would
>Jay-Z be shot down if
>he was consistently spitting "concious"
>lyrics while wearing Gucci, Iceberg,
>Versace etc. I hope not.

Who said anything about being 'shot down' ? LOL.

>His lyrics and actions should
>be open to harsh scrutiny.
>What he wears while he
>recites them should not.

Unless the clothes themselves are a statement.

What if he was wearing a "Fuck America" shirt ? Wouldn't people be debating it then ?


krewc
www.vinylators.com

krewcial
www.krewcial.com
www.myspace.com/krewcial
www.okayplayer.com/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=23051&forum=lesson

http://www.23hq.com/krewcial/photo/1085564?album_id=1085556

Nashville recording sessions : www.krewcial.com/nashville

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
NewBorn202
Charter member
45673 posts
Tue Nov-27-01 12:28 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
56. "RE: lol"
In response to Reply # 55


  

          

>Who said anything about being 'shot
>down' ? LOL.

I hope you didn't think I meant physically shot down. Maybe it was a poor choice of words.

>Unless the clothes themselves are a
>statement.
>
>What if he was wearing a
>"Fuck America" shirt ?
>Wouldn't people be debating it
>then ?

I think that is a very big "unless." Who's to say that Jay is actually trying to make a statement? I'm sure that all the rappers wearing crosses and Jesus pieces aren't proclaiming to the world that they are Christians. Who's to say that he didn't just rock the shirt because he thought it looked good. I'm not trying to debate what he was thinking because I just don't know. I can, however, listen to his lyrics and judge him by what he says.

---
We From A Place
Where Dem Boys Still Pimpin' Them Hoes
We From A Place
Cadillacs Still Ridin' On Vogues
We From A Place
Where My Soul Still Don't Feel Free
Where A Flag Means More Than Me(IN MISSISSIPPI)

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

morpheme
Charter member
94867 posts
Sun Dec-09-01 07:35 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
71. "CHE FOR ROCA-WEAR..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

next up
emilio zappata rhinestone capris for the ladies


§•prana•§
§•mother profit•§

i admire the angie stones...the angie stones & all this sisters who openly unguardledly profess their love for blk men...i admire them almost as much i may seek to admonish them - i admire them...i feel as tho lovin my brethren is like a FIGHT...so often there are signs that i am to be "got" or picked upon they litter my existence like after school notices for impendin harm on elementary hall floors...i see their might in numbers & am sometimes made to feel small in their presences...but i fear them not tho i know their fist...i tremble but i do not quake & like this overstandin kinship i am to brandish in relation to them i act as anyone could advise me to...I GRAB ONE & love the hell out of him




"i've got myself...to remind me of love"




_____________
Kamikaze Genes
____________♌♀
goddess; small g.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

Lobby Okay Activist Archives topic #9864 Previous topic | Next topic
Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.25
Copyright © DCScripts.com