LeBron
Durant
CP3
Howard
Rose

If we're talking top 5, I don't see how you can argue for anyone else

Melo
Wade - got about 3 great years left IMO, then he's just good
Deron
Rondo - he's proved it
Kobe - for now, but probably his last year on this list
Love
Westbrook - could probably build a team around him, won't get a chance to with Durant, but I think he's shown enough

Not just yet:
Bynum - could be there real soon, probably this year
Kyrie - likely on his way
Wall - can still happen
Big Cuz - if he ever gets his shit together, he has the potential
Unibrow

Dirk is still very good, but not great anymore, Blake I don't think could ever be a true centerpiece, I could see making an argument for TP, but I just don't see how he's on those other guys' level.

_________________________________________

Player.

Sadly, I don't think he will ever be the same.

Spurs NBA Champs 1999, 2003, 2005, 2007, 2014

I'll give him the benefit of the doubt until I see him play again.

_________________________________________

ever being a franchise player again and wouldn't include him until he displays otherwise.

His stay on that list was tenuous to begin with based on size/style of play & the wear-and-tear already beginning to show this season pre-ACL.

It's possible that he could come back from it and still be elite, and he was a franchise player the last time he was on the court, so I included him on there. It's really negligible at this point, no one will know until he plays.

_________________________________________

.

You're right

_________________________________________

Saying you would take Rose is downplaying his injury.

.

A player to build any team around? A player to build a playoff team around? A playoff to build a title contender around?

I think if you mean the last one, there are *maybe* 7-8 players, max.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

To me, it's a player that you could build around to compete for a championship, someone that can be the centerpiece on a championship winning team. And I'd agree that it's a very small list. I think the players I listed, in the right situation, could lead a team to a title and be the best player on it. That's what I would consider a franchise player, someone that, in the right situation, gives you a shot at a chip.

_________________________________________

-----------
It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilarious.

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

the Sixers are definitely building their team around him

We saw what he could do last season w/o a training camp...and playing w/Kobe who took 2x as many shots as he did...(Bynum averaged 13 shots per gm)...19ppg 12rpg 2blocks 56%FG earned him 1st Team All NBA Honors

now, he's on a squad where he's w/o question the focal point of the offense, I see him putting up no less than 22-25ppg 13rpg...

and lets not forget he's only 26 yrs old. I say he's clearly become a franchise player.

grassrootsphilosopher

>the Sixers are definitely building their team around him
>
>We saw what he could do last season w/o a training camp...and
>playing w/Kobe who took 2x as many shots as he did...(Bynum
>averaged 13 shots per gm)...19ppg 12rpg 2blocks 56%FG earned
>him 1st Team All NBA Honors
>
>now, he's on a squad where he's w/o question the focal point
>of the offense, I see him putting up no less than 22-25ppg
>13rpg...
>
>and lets not forget he's only 26 yrs old. I say he's clearly
>become a franchise player.

I don't disagree with any of this, but since he hasn't done any of that yet, I didn't put him on there just yet.

_________________________________________

when his playoff record is shakey at best. This past season with the Clippers was only his 2nd time getting out of the first round and he's never been out of the second round. compared to all of the other elite point guards he's had the least amount of playoff success. People will want to COP PLEAS about his teammates, but I remember in 2008 when Paul had his "breakout" season and a lot of people were saying he deserved MVP and the Lakers window was supposedly closing and the Hornets were going to have the West on lock for the next several years but it didn't happen. Despite having homecourt advantage the Hornets lost in the second round in 7 games to an old broken down ass Spurs team that got dusted by Kobe and the Lakers in the next round. The next year the Hornets lost 4-1 in the first round to Carmelo's Nuggets, they didn't even make the playoffs in 2010, they lost in the first round in 2011 to a Laker team that got swept in the second round about Dallas. And of course this past season Paul's Clippers got swept in the second round by Parker's Spurs.

I'm just trying to figure how Chris Paul gets to leapfrog over people like Parker, Carmelo and Kobe that BEAT him in the playoffs not to mention a lot of other people like Wade, Rondo, and Westbrook that have accomplished way more than him.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

http://hypevercab.bandcamp.com

His squad was garbage and he made it a legit series.

He's automatic because he's the best PG in the NBA at a time where there's a shit ton of good pg's. I'm not saying playoff wins are meaningless, but I don't see it as the ultimate measuring stick or the difference between Parker making this list over Paul. Put Chris Paul on the Spurs and they're a much better team. I really don't see how you can't put him first among points.

_________________________________________

>He's automatic because he's the best PG in the NBA

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

players and has at times overachieved w/those players a la the series vs LA in 2011...that NO team had no business pushing that Laker squad to the brink...but they did because Paul was getting the best out of his 2nd and 3rd tier teammates...


Parker, Rose, Westbrook, Williams, Rondo ALL HAVE AND HAVE HAD A BETTER SUPPORTING CAST

grassrootsphilosopher

Deron's teammates in Utah but guess who had more success in the playoffs?

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

These are just some of the (BEST) players D-Will has played w/while in Utah starting from 2008 til 2010-11 season
-Kirilenko (1 All Star team/3 All nba defensive teams)
-Boozer (made several all star teams)
-Ronnie Brewer
-C.J. Price
-Paul Milsap
-Mehmet Okur
-Kyle Korver (amongst the best 3 pt shooters in the league)
-Raja Bell
-Devin Harris (very solid player who can play both guard positions)
-Derrick Favors
-Al Jefferson (close to a 20/10 player)


Ok, now here's some of Paul's teammates starting w/the 2008 season since that was the season his team finished 1st in their division
-Birdman (role player)
-Tyson Chandler (glorified role player)
-Bobby Jackson (role player)
-David West (1x all star team)
-Jannero Pargo (role player)
-Mo Peterson (role player)
-Peja (past his prime at this point)
-James Posey (stole money from the organization/last seen on a milk carton)
-Treva Ariza (role player)
-Emeka Okafor (never materialized into the player he was drafted to be)
-Carl Landry (yep role player)


Now, looking at their respective rosters, I don't see how you can honestly say their teams have been the same as far as talent. Williams has played w/players who have made All Star teams and others who may not have been all stars but were amongst the best players at their position (Al Jefferson/Devin Harris) while Paul, on the other hand, only played w/ONE all star player his entire time in New Orleans (David West and he made it only 1x)...this is why Utah was picked the finish higher than New Orleans every season both players were on those teams.

grassrootsphilosopher

>These are just some of the players D-Will has played w/while
>in Utah starting from 2008 til 2010-11 season
>-Kirilenko (1 All Star team/3 All nba defensive teams)

he was an All-Star in 2004 before Deron got there and has been injury prone and never been the same since...

>-Boozer (made several all star teams)

and you see how he's looking now without Deron...

and you coulda stop right there...

>-Ronnie Brewer
>-C.J. Price
>-Paul Milsap
>-Mehmet Okur
>-Kyle Korver (amongst the best 3 pt shooters in the league)
>-Raja Bell
>-Devin Harris (very solid player who can play both guard
>positions)
>-Derrick Favors

lol, Deron was traded FOR Harris and Favors, they never played together dumbass

>-Al Jefferson (close to a 20/10 player)

he only played a little over half the season with Al before he was traded


>Ok, now here's some of Paul's teammates starting w/the 2008
>season since that was the season his team finished 1st in
>their division
>-Birdman (role player)
>-Tyson Chandler (glorified role player)

Oh you mean the current defensive player of the year that was that starting center on the NBA Champion Mavs and US National Team World Championship and Olympic gold medal squads?

>-Bobby Jackson (role player)
>-David West (1x all star team)

West was 2X All-Star, not that you let anything like FACTS get in your way...

>-Jannero Pargo (role player)
>-Mo Peterson (role player)
>-Peja (past his prime at this point)

former multi-All-Star and MVP candidate who was key role player later for Dallas title team

>-James Posey (stole money from the organization/last seen on a
>milk carton)

Key role player on 2 different title teams before coming to NO

>-Treva Ariza (role player)

and Key role player on a championship squad

>-Emeka Okafor (never materialized into the player he was
>drafted to be)

still a better than average big man

>-Carl Landry (yep role player)

another pretty good role player that have averaged in double-digits his entire career

>Now, looking at their respective rosters, I don't see how you
>can honestly say their teams have been the same as far as
>talent. Williams has played w/players who have made All Star
>teams and others who may not have been all stars but were
>amongst the best players at their position (Al Jefferson/Devin
>Harris)

lol, just stop it

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

>>These are just some of the players D-Will has played
>w/while
>>in Utah starting from 2008 til 2010-11 season
>>-Kirilenko (1 All Star team/3 All nba defensive teams)
>
>he was an All-Star in 2004 before Deron got there and has been
>injury prone and never been the same since..

Oh, so he fell off in just one season because D-Will joined the team in the 2005 season lol...Kirilenko was still a very good player when Deron came to the team
>
>>-Boozer (made several all star teams)
>
>and you see how he's looking now without Deron...

he was a 20/10 player BEFORE D-Will joined the team in case you forgot
>
>and you coulda stop right there...
>
>>-Ronnie Brewer
>>-C.J. Price
>>-Paul Milsap
>>-Mehmet Okur
>>-Kyle Korver (amongst the best 3 pt shooters in the league)
>>-Raja Bell
>>-Devin Harris (very solid player who can play both guard
>>positions)
>>-Derrick Favors
>
>lol, Deron was traded FOR Harris and Favors, they never played
>together dumbass
>
>>-Al Jefferson (close to a 20/10 player)
>
>he only played a little over half the season with Al before he
>was traded
>
>
>>Ok, now here's some of Paul's teammates starting w/the 2008
>>season since that was the season his team finished 1st in
>>their division
>>-Birdman (role player)
>>-Tyson Chandler (glorified role player)
>
>Oh you mean the current defensive player of the year that was
>that starting center on the NBA Champion Mavs and US National
>Team World Championship and Olympic gold medal squads?

bwahahaha how many ALL DEFENSIVE TEAMS did he make while in New Orleans? ok
>
>>-Bobby Jackson (role player)
>>-David West (1x all star team)
>
>West was 2X All-Star, not that you let anything like FACTS get
>in your way...

ok, 2x he made it and he was the best player Paul has played with which should tell you why no one holds it against him that he couldn't get past the elite teams in the west. Boozer in Utah>>>>>>West
>
>>-Jannero Pargo (role player)
>>-Mo Peterson (role player)
>>-Peja (past his prime at this point)
>
>former multi-All-Star and MVP candidate who was key role
>player later for Dallas title team

the key word in your statement is "former"....he was a shell of himself in New Orleans lol...and there you go lying abt him being the key role player on that Mavs team...Jason Terry/JJ Barea want to have a word w/you
>
>>-James Posey (stole money from the organization/last seen on
>a
>>milk carton)
>
>Key role player on 2 different title teams before coming to
>NO

yeah, but dumbass we ain't talking abt what he did prior but how he played while in NO...and he didn't do anything memorable while he was there which is why they practically GAVE HIM AWAY to the Pacers. GMs bought into his exaggerated defensive ability while in Boston and OVERPAID him 25 million (did he ever average at least 15ppg in his career?)
>
>>-Treva Ariza (role player)
>
>and Key role player on a championship squad
>
>>-Emeka Okafor (never materialized into the player he was
>>drafted to be)
>
>still a better than average big man

yeah oh lmao...Paul should have gone to at least 5 WCF w/Okafor
>
>>-Carl Landry (yep role player)
>
>another pretty good role player that have averaged in
>double-digits his entire career

you tryin too hard...
>
>>Now, looking at their respective rosters, I don't see how
>you
>>can honestly say their teams have been the same as far as
>>talent. Williams has played w/players who have made All Star
>>teams and others who may not have been all stars but were
>>amongst the best players at their position (Al
>Jefferson/Devin
>>Harris)
>
>lol, just stop it

Again, which of the two has played w/the better, more accomplished players? David West is the ONLY player besides Paul to make an All Star team in NO...and most ppl wouldn't even say he was an elite player then. Just like you try and credit Boozer's success w/D-Will, even though Boozer was putting up numbers pre-D-Will which is why Utah paid him that huge contract, the same can be said of West who hasn't had nearly the same success he did playing w/Paul

grassrootsphilosopher

my whole thing is, if Chris Paul is so great at making his teammates "better" as you all say, why did almost all the guys you listed except for West play better on other teams?

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

http://clipperblog.com/2012/09/03/the-chris-paul-bump/

The Chris Paul Bump
Posted by D.J. Foster on September 3, 2012 at 4:09 pm

When evaluating the offseason for the Clippers, it’s become commonplace to assume that every player will see a “bump” in their production, simply because they’ll be playing next to Chris Paul. This requires little explanation — Paul is one of the best “pure” point guards to ever grace the floor, and by definition, he makes everything easier on his teammates.

The question isn’t whether Chris Paul helps his teammates, it’s how much he helps his teammates. That’s a tricky thing to quantify for a variety of reasons (coaching, other teammates, injuries, etc.), but let’s give it a shot.

With apologies to Kirk Snyder and Devin Brown, let’s start in 2007-2008, when New Orleans had a regular starting shooting guard (Morris Peterson) and Paul was entering his third year and playing at a level similar to how he is now.

This was the year the Hornets went 56-26 and finished one game away from reaching the Western Conference Finals. You may remember Morris Peterson from his Flintstone days at Michigan State, or from his time next to Vince Carter in Toronto. At 30 years old in 2007-08, Peterson was on his last legs, but it didn’t stop him from starting all 76 games he played in.

Here’s what Morris Peterson did in his season sharing a backcourt with Paul:

Shot a career-best 39.4 percent from the 3-point line
Posted a near career-low in free throw attempts per-36 minutes
Recorded his third-best True Shooting Percentage at 54.9 percent
In Paul’s next season with the Hornets, Rasual Butler would assume the starting shooting guard position for the Hornets. In addition to being quite possibly the worst interview in professional sports, Butler was a volume shooter from behind the arc. Still the Clippers’ single-season record holder for most 3-pointers made, Butler earned his future playing time for his performance during the 2008-09 season, his first as a regular starter next to Paul. For continuity, we’ll only judge Rasual Butler’s seasons where he played over 700 minutes (8 seasons total):

Highest career field goal percentage at 43.3 percent
Highest 3-point percentage at 39 percent
Best True Shooting Percentage at 54.1 percent
Highest career PER at 11.8
Since the Hornets trotted out Devin Brown, the corpse of Mo-Pete and a young Marcus Thornton in 2009-10 and more importantly, since Paul missed half of the year with injury, let’s move on to the 2010-11 season — Paul’s last in New Orleans.

Starting next to Paul in 69 games that year was Marco Belinelli — a guy getting his first chance at real starting time. Like Peterson and Butler before him, Marco Belinelli experienced the best percentages of his young career in the 2010-11 season.

Career-best 41.4 percent (!) from the 3-point line
Highet True Shooting Percentage at 56 percent
Second highest season PER at 12.1
Before we move on, let’s look at Paul’s backcourt mate for the majority of the season last year, Randy Foye.

Second best 3-point percentage at 38.6 percent
Career worst 1.8 FTA per 36-minutes
Second highest True Shooting Percentage at 52.2 percent
Through four years of players and data (Peterson, Butler, Belinelli, Foye), we can see that starting next to Paul provides a substantial “bump” in 3-point percentage and True Shooting Percentage. These four players often remained average or declined in free throw attempts per-36 minutes — a function of having the ball in their hands less and spending more time as a spot-up shooter.

Again though, we already knew that. Now let’s get to the good part — what is the exact “bump” in shooting percentages when starting next to Paul?

Here, we’ll find the combined 3-point shooting percentage for the four players (Peterson, Butler, Belinelli, Foye) in all of their non-Paul seasons. Then, we’ll compare that number to their combined percentage while starting next to Paul.

Without Paul: 36.1 percent from behind the arc (2144 3PM – 5924 3PA).

Starting next to Paul: 39.5 percent from behind the arc (514 3PM, 1299 3PA).

At least from this sample size of four players, the 3-point shooting percentage bump when playing next to Paul is a whopping 3.4 percent. That’s an incredible difference. The league average 3-point percentage for shooting guards last year was 35.8 percent, according to Hoopdata.com. What we can gather from this sample size (albeit limited) is that starting next to Paul can bump a player from being a league average 3-point shooter to a Top 10 guy at the shooting guard position.

Although this study has Stanley Roberts impersonating the Kool-Aid Man type holes, it gives you a general idea of the benefits that come from having an elite distributor at the point guard position.

Although it’s dangerous to automatically assume Jamal Crawford (for example) will leap to a 38.2 percent three-point shooter instead of a 34.8 percent shooter, you can reasonably accept that whoever starts next to Paul this season will receive that “Chris Paul bump” that’s very, very real.

_________________________

Damn Truth....U on that Mr. Maxx...lol

U really hate Paul....

That's some real, old fashion hate....lol

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

he gets automatically elevated above peers that have accomplished way more than him.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

>he gets automatically elevated above peers that have
>accomplished way more than him.


Because most of them have had better teams?

And most observers have seen when Paul single-handedly battled superior teams like those Laker squads...

I know it's about winning...But u can't look the other way when a player is basically THE TEAM...I think Paul's time with the Clippers (if he stays) will be the overall judgement on his legacy...

But as if right now, Paul is a franchise player...

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

>And most observers have seen when Paul single-handedly battled
>superior teams like those Laker squads...

lol, wth does that even mean?

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

absolutely nothing

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

While also leading the league in steals. He is also the dependable clutch player that people wish their favourite player was.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

who do you think is better?

_________________________________________

based on?

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

His numbers speak for itself. He can take over games in the clutch, score as well or better than any other pg and can pass just as well, put people in scoring position, and play solid defense. Really, the only other point that could compare to him is Deron, and right now, he's not better.

_________________________________________

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

Yes, of course it's my opinion. Just like it's your opinion that not getting to the conference finals makes him inferior to other pg's.

Also, I'll ask again, who do you think is better?

And do you think CP3 is not a franchise player?

_________________________________________

>Yes, of course it's my opinion. Just like it's your opinion
>that not getting to the conference finals makes him inferior
>to other pg's.

at least my opinion is based on something other than my feelings

>Also, I'll ask again, who do you think is better?

I think its highly debatable depending on the criteria you choose, arguments could be made for Rose, Rondo, Parker, Westbrook, Nash or Deron.

>And do you think CP3 is not a franchise player?

What is your definition of a "franchise player"?

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

>>Yes, of course it's my opinion. Just like it's your opinion
>>that not getting to the conference finals makes him inferior
>>to other pg's.
>
>at least my opinion is based on something other than my
>feelings

It is? Is your opinion based on anything more tangible than mine? How?

>>Also, I'll ask again, who do you think is better?
>
>I think its highly debatable depending on the criteria you
>choose, arguments could be made for Rose, Rondo, Parker,
>Westbrook, Nash or Deron.

So what is your criteria then? I still don't understand how you determine one player to be better than another. It's gotta be more than playoff success, otherwise you'd be saying Robert Horry is GOAT.

>>And do you think CP3 is not a franchise player?
>
>What is your definition of a "franchise player"?
>
Post 7

_________________________________________

WOULD HAVE done of they had so-and-so's team.

I prefer to look at what people have actually accomplished.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

and that carrying significantly more weight than anything else is being shortsighted. Was LeBron not the best player in the league when he kept losing in Cleveland?

If you watch a random game of basketball you can tell who is better than who without taking into consideration the teams' record or past successes or failures. Chris Paul has a more complete game than any other pg. Westbrook may drive the lane better, and you could argue Rondo is a better passer, but Paul is undoubtedly a better floor general and passer than Westbrook, and much better offensively than Rondo. So would you rather have one of them run point on your team because they've been to the Finals before?

Stats and common sense support the idea the Paul is better than any other point in the league.

_________________________________________

in the ECF that year against Detroit, people had just been waiting on him to follow up and that and he finally did.


>and that carrying significantly more weight than anything
>else is being shortsighted. Was LeBron not the best player in
>the league when he kept losing in Cleveland?
>
>If you watch a random game of basketball you can tell who is
>better than who without taking into consideration the teams'
>record or past successes or failures. Chris Paul has a more
>complete game than any other pg. Westbrook may drive the lane
>better, and you could argue Rondo is a better passer, but Paul
>is undoubtedly a better floor general and passer than
>Westbrook, and much better offensively than Rondo. So would
>you rather have one of them run point on your team because
>they've been to the Finals before?

And both of those guys are better defenders than Chris Paul, unfortunately defense doesn't show up in PER and win share stats.

>Stats and common sense support the idea the Paul is better
>than any other point in the league.

okayplayer.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

>And both of those guys are better defenders than Chris Paul,
>unfortunately defense doesn't show up in PER and win share
>stats.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/ws.html

-----------
It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilarious.

Even if they were better, are they that much better that you gonna take them over Chris? Idgaf about win share, nor did I ever mention it. He crystal fucking clearly put up better across the board numbers than any other point last year. He has the best all around game of any point, which I know because I've seen them all play numerous times and the general consensus backs that up. If you don't agree because he's a few wins shy of your playoff benchmark, cool, if you think Rondo or Westbrook or Parker is better, okay, but I don't think any GM's evaluate players or build teams that way, and remember playoff success is just another metric, no different than points, assists or anything else, so miss me with all the feelings and opinions shit.

_________________________________________

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

>
>>He's automatic because he's the best PG in the NBA

Because, Blake G. is the best player Paul has ever played with...And he's only been on the Clippers for a year...

On the real, I'm a dude that (pre injury) would have picked Rose before Paul...But for anyone to insist that Paul is not a franchise player that's a bit unreasonable...

Yep, I'm a Bulls fan...But as a die hard basketball fan I would have loved to see Paul play with the talent level of say Tim Duncan or a young Ginolbli (Tony Parker), Garnett, Jesus, and Paul P. (Rondo) or even Nash when he had a healthy STAT...

Paul carried those shaky Hornets teams against other squads that were vastly better...

I thought most basketball fans was aware of that...

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

is debatable

but

what isn't debatable is that his type of game is a lot easier to surround w/quality teammates vs Carmelo, Kobe, and Wesbrook. As someone said in a reply in this same post, point guards usually aren't expected to lead their teams to championships...

to some Paul is the exception only because the consensus says he's the best pg in the league but history shows that championship teams aren't usually led by their point guards but as of RIGHT TODAY, if I had to choose btw Paul/Melo/Kobe/Westbrook to start a team, I'm going w/the guy who doesn't mind getting others involved where as the other players mentioned are selfish and try and win games by themselves by jacking up bad shot after bad shot.

grassrootsphilosopher

>what isn't debatable is that his type of game is a lot easier
>to surround w/quality teammates vs Carmelo, Kobe, and
>Wesbrook.

if its so easy why hasn't he had as much playoff success as those guys or any of the other elite point guards

>As someone said in a reply in this same post, point
>guards usually aren't expected to lead their teams to
>championships...

I think a couple of guys named Earvin and Isiah may question that...


>to some Paul is the exception only because the consensus says
>he's the best pg in the league

again, based on WHAT?

>but history shows that
>championship teams aren't usually led by their point guards

Billups and Parker may disagree with that too. And really other recent Finals MVP's like Wade, Kobe and Lebron who didn't officially have the "point guard" title but were the primarily ballhandlers and playmakers on their teams.

>but as of RIGHT TODAY, if I had to choose btw
>Paul/Melo/Kobe/Westbrook to start a team, I'm going w/the guy
>who doesn't mind getting others involved where as the other
>players mentioned are selfish and try and win games by
>themselves by jacking up bad shot after bad shot.

You're basically talking in circles, you're saying pg's don't lead teams to championships but if you're starting a team you're to take a pg that has never come close to winning anything.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

>>what isn't debatable is that his type of game is a lot
>easier
>>to surround w/quality teammates vs Carmelo, Kobe, and
>>Wesbrook.
>
>if its so easy why hasn't he had as much playoff success as
>those guys or any of the other elite point guards

which team has he been on that was predicted to go deep in the postseason? (I'll wait)...the other players have been on good to really good teams.
>
>>As someone said in a reply in this same post, point
>>guards usually aren't expected to lead their teams to
>>championships...
>
>I think a couple of guys named Earvin and Isiah may question
>that...

yeah, and how many yrs ago was that? ok...
>
>
>>to some Paul is the exception only because the consensus
>says
>>he's the best pg in the league
>
>again, based on WHAT?

because he's better, plain and simple lmao...he's a better shooter than ALL the pgs w/the exception of maybe D-Will and he's no less the 2nd best passing point guard in the league...and he's led the league in steals several seasons while no other point guard can say the same...oh, and he's regarded as the BEST leader of any player in the league, including the point guards ppl compare him to.
>
>>but history shows that
>>championship teams aren't usually led by their point guards
>
>Billups and Parker may disagree with that too. And really
>other recent Finals MVP's like Wade, Kobe and Lebron who
>didn't officially have the "point guard" title but were the
>primarily ballhandlers and playmakers on their teams.

wtf - Billups didn't *lead* the Pistons to the championship, that is the one team in nba history that didn't have a definitive BEST player on its squad. Some nights it was Rip, other times it was Rasheed and everyone knows Ben Wallace was the heart and soul of that team, not to mention the defensive anchor which was that team's bread and butter during their title run...and Parker played w/this guy by the name of Tim Duncan who many believe is GOAT power forward...and he had another teammate from Argentina who can be the best player on the floor on any given night.
>
>>but as of RIGHT TODAY, if I had to choose btw
>>Paul/Melo/Kobe/Westbrook to start a team, I'm going w/the
>guy
>>who doesn't mind getting others involved where as the other
>>players mentioned are selfish and try and win games by
>>themselves by jacking up bad shot after bad shot.
>
>You're basically talking in circles, you're saying pg's don't
>lead teams to championships but if you're starting a team
>you're to take a pg that has never come close to winning
>anything.

because point guards typically don't lead teams to a chip and we have nba history to prove it. Isaiah Thomas was the last point guard to lead a team to a title and even he wasn't the leading scorer on those teams, Dantley was and after he was traded it was Dumars...but he had other standout players on that team as well. And this is how you have to build a championship team if the centerpiece of that team is your point guard. Paul can't be the team's leading scorer and leading assist man if the Clippers are ever going to make a serious run for a championship...he needs another offensive player to shoulder some of the offensive load but that doesn't mean he still won't be the team's best player (just like Nash was in Phoenix when he won those MVPS, Amare and Marion were the scorers)

grassrootsphilosopher