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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
34861 posts
Fri Jun-05-20 01:30 PM

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""Defund The Police" has entered the chat room."


          

Let's go!!!

The Atlantic:
Defund the Police
America needs to rethink its priorities for the whole criminal-justice system.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/06/defund-police/612682/

The Guardian:
Movement to defund police gains 'unprecedented' support across US
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/04/defund-the-police-us-george-floyd-budgets

Vox.com:
Growing calls to “defund the police,” explained
Calls to restrict police funding have grown with protests and GOP-imposed austerity.
https://www.vox.com/2020/6/3/21276824/defund-police-divest-explainer

Rolling Stone:
A Practical Guide to Defunding the Police
Activists are demanding cities ‘defund the police.’ Here’s what they mean
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/defund-the-police-1007254/

Newsweek:
The 'Defund the Police' Movement Is Growing. Here's What It Actually Means
https://www.newsweek.com/defund-police-movement-growing-heres-what-it-actually-means-1508761

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
Given this past week
Jun 05th 2020
1
oh its a long battle, no doubt
Jun 05th 2020
2
      It a drop in the bucket monetarily
Jun 05th 2020
4
           definitely.
Jun 05th 2020
15
                Yep yep yep. Was psyched to see LA make the first move.
Jun 07th 2020
83
People that say that don’t even know what that means lol
Jun 05th 2020
3
*raises hand* what DOES it mean?? On the surface, sounds kinda like a
Jun 05th 2020
5
Some of the govt funds that go to the police force would be reallocated ...
Jun 05th 2020
6
Its literally explained in all the links i posted.
Jun 05th 2020
13
billie clubs and shiny shoes.
Jun 05th 2020
16
educate us.
Jun 05th 2020
7
It’s an extremely complicated issue that sounds good to say until you....
Jun 05th 2020
8
      Sad, weak, directionless rhetoric.
Jun 05th 2020
9
      thus, my reply.
Jun 05th 2020
10
      ^
Jun 07th 2020
84
      RE: It’s an extremely complicated issue that sounds good to say until ...
Jun 05th 2020
11
      which details? how is it unrealistic?
Jun 05th 2020
14
      When somebody robs you who you gonna call? Ghostbusters?
Jun 05th 2020
33
           No, its more complex than that.
Jun 05th 2020
35
           So you took multiple paragraphs to say what I said in one sentence...
Jun 06th 2020
38
                i gave you a sincere reply with no snark and you're being an asshole.
Jun 06th 2020
40
                okayplayer. n/m
Jun 06th 2020
42
                LOL
Jun 07th 2020
87
                She provided information and nuanced discussion points ...
Jun 07th 2020
86
           the safest neighborhoods and cities dont have the most cops
Jun 09th 2020
266
      I'll admit... the first thing I start to think is that a lot of
Jun 05th 2020
17
           RE: I'll admit... the first thing I start to think is that a lot of
Jun 05th 2020
23
                I hear ya.
Jun 07th 2020
63
                RE: I hear ya.
Jun 07th 2020
72
                This times a trillion.
Jun 07th 2020
88
I know exactly what it means. But thanks for your useless comment.
Jun 05th 2020
12
I've been thinking about how "radical" ideas have been becoming...
Jun 05th 2020
18
Could you give an example of this by any chance?? No snark
Jun 05th 2020
20
      RE: Could you give an example of this by any chance?? No snark
Jun 05th 2020
21
      Really good point, and eye-opening. Thanks.
Jun 07th 2020
66
      This single tweet got me started down the "defund the police" rabbit hol...
Jun 05th 2020
31
           You see it. excellent :)
Jun 05th 2020
36
           Thanks for this. Wow.
Jun 07th 2020
68
I'm with it. I shouldn't have to explain to my son why he needs to be
Jun 05th 2020
19
i've been in d.c. the past few days
Jun 05th 2020
22
what does that have to do with the post?
Jun 05th 2020
24
'defunding the police...'
Jun 05th 2020
25
      Since when is music for/inspired by protest not a thing?
Jun 05th 2020
26
      we've been doing that for a while
Jun 05th 2020
27
      DC is one city. one. 1.
Jun 05th 2020
28
      What kind of music would make this not lame to you?
Jun 06th 2020
47
           fuck the police
Jun 06th 2020
51
                lol that doesn't fucking matter
Jun 08th 2020
131
Agree!
Jun 06th 2020
49
agreed
Jun 06th 2020
52
RE: Agree!
Jun 07th 2020
58
i do like the idea of defunding
Jun 08th 2020
122
all 57 members of bpd emergency response team resign in show of support
Jun 05th 2020
29
ah, that makes more sense.
Jun 05th 2020
30
lindsey graham must be feeling that heat back home.
Jun 05th 2020
32
not one non Lady G comment
Jun 05th 2020
34
      lmao
Jun 05th 2020
37
      lol
Jun 06th 2020
44
I was actually talking to a conservative FB friend about this subject...
Jun 06th 2020
39
RE: I was actually talking to a conservative FB friend about this subjec...
Jun 06th 2020
41
I think getting rid of the police unions is a very good start.
Jun 06th 2020
43
I do to, but when you start talking about getting rid of unions in any.....
Jun 06th 2020
45
      Yea totally. I'm pro-union in general but agree in this case it may be ....
Jun 07th 2020
89
      Cops aren't workers and their "union" is a cover for
Jun 07th 2020
96
           RE: Cops aren't workers and their "union" is a cover for
Jun 08th 2020
130
it's ABSOLUTELY the Police Unions...THAT is what needs reform
Jun 08th 2020
167
MPLS Mayor doesn't want to defund police. Loses entire city.
Jun 06th 2020
46
In his defense he’s in a tough position, those are his employees
Jun 06th 2020
48
      Oh for sure, but why not just stay home and sit this one out
Jun 06th 2020
50
      Can he do that?
Jun 06th 2020
53
      also defunding the police is unpopular.
Jun 06th 2020
54
           its unpopular because its a NEW idea
Jun 07th 2020
55
           Wow you’re going way too hard in the paint.
Jun 07th 2020
59
           there's no such thing. i'm angry as fuck about all of this.
Jun 07th 2020
64
                youre being juvenile fam.
Jun 07th 2020
67
                     i said what i said. read all my replies in this post.
Jun 07th 2020
73
                          obkb.
Jun 07th 2020
75
           im sure all of that feels good to you but its not based on reality.
Jun 07th 2020
62
                it's based very much in reality.
Jun 07th 2020
76
           its a very easy msg for the GOP to counter attack too
Jun 08th 2020
115
Terrible name for some decent ideas....
Jun 07th 2020
56
i don't even have words for how dumb that statement is.
Jun 07th 2020
57
Defund Police is a dumb catchphrase. It just is.
Jun 07th 2020
60
hes 100% right.
Jun 07th 2020
65
      Wording/naming is EVERYTHING when it comes to getting support for a
Jun 07th 2020
70
      of course.
Jun 07th 2020
74
           y'all can debate and focus on the messaging. that's cool
Jun 07th 2020
78
                Bernie LOST. n/m
Jun 07th 2020
90
                You have a very dismissive relationship with OKPs. Nonetheless, your
Jun 07th 2020
104
                     y'all earned it.
Jun 08th 2020
107
                     From what I'm seeing everything she is saying in #78 is true
Jun 08th 2020
125
                          Yep. It's sorted out.....
Jun 08th 2020
128
      Yep
Jun 08th 2020
149
      POLICE THE POLICE!!! Simple, makes sense, no objections
Jun 08th 2020
172
Gotta say,I agree with you and Reeq on this.My big issue is the erasure.
Jun 07th 2020
92
i hear everything your saying...those critiques and concerns are valid
Jun 07th 2020
98
Thank you for this thorough assessment. I often don't really have the ti...
Jun 07th 2020
103
Remember how our early discussions about BLM were so focused on
Jun 08th 2020
151
"Reform" vs. "Defunding"/"abolish" in one handy chart:
Jun 07th 2020
61
if youre explaining...youre losing.
Jun 07th 2020
69
Yeah, that’s a LOTTA explaining
Jun 07th 2020
80
Word.
Jun 07th 2020
81
Just randomly came across this on Twitter:
Jun 07th 2020
91
didn't see this reply before i made my own down below
Jun 08th 2020
112
"well intentioned" racists say the same thing about Black Lives Matter
Jun 08th 2020
156
tell it.
Jun 08th 2020
250
which Ws has your approach notched since this post?
Jun 08th 2020
211
All good public policy is complicated
Jun 09th 2020
270
      .
Jun 09th 2020
299
Thanks for the link....it helps at least present the goals...but it's no...
Jun 07th 2020
71
      you're welcome and I'd rather focus on the goals.
Jun 07th 2020
77
           By not clear, I mean it’s kinda confusing/not easy to follow.
Jun 07th 2020
79
                and that's ok. there's other graphics out there.
Jun 07th 2020
82
                     Really?? After alladat posting ^^^ you gonna play the "Google It" card??
Jun 07th 2020
105
                          i wrote alot more than that...see this is why i be dismissive
Jun 08th 2020
108
                               My bad. You right...i read it all... I get frustrated when trying to bui...
Jun 08th 2020
124
it's a conversation that needs to be had, but will fall on deaf ears her...
Jun 07th 2020
85
i didn't post this to raise support. I know this site LOL
Jun 07th 2020
99
KARE: MLPS City Council Announces Intent to Disband Police
Jun 07th 2020
93
Minneapolis to disband the MPD & invest in community-led public safe...
Jun 07th 2020
94
lol word
Jun 08th 2020
117
Yeah I'm sure police dept's around the country will soon follow suit
Jun 08th 2020
137
Im embarrassed for everyone in here who tried to shout damali down.
Jun 08th 2020
157
      Why are you embarrassed?
Jun 08th 2020
161
           cause yall proven to be on the wrong side of history in less than 48 hou...
Jun 08th 2020
165
                Didn't realize it was a competition. Most folks are just trying to build...
Jun 09th 2020
267
Ewwww...the lack of imagination is disappointing as usual
Jun 07th 2020
95
girl! basically LOL. you see it
Jun 07th 2020
100
A Collective in Philly has created these clear demands
Jun 07th 2020
97
excellent!! I love it!!
Jun 08th 2020
111
      I've been working with a group of radical abolitionists
Jun 10th 2020
325
           this is so beautiful...at the same time, i hate that this burden is on '...
Jun 10th 2020
331
"Defund The Police" makes it seem like ALL funding would be removed
Jun 07th 2020
101
Hahaha. Don’t give them right wing clowns any ideas
Jun 07th 2020
102
the "right gaze" is almost worse than the "white gaze" LOL
Jun 08th 2020
109
wouldn't be the first time the alt left has gave them new material
Jun 08th 2020
113
      Colbert did a joke about it
Jun 13th 2020
356
The left is so bad at this politics thing.
Jun 08th 2020
106
so bad that Minneapolis is disbanding their police force.
Jun 08th 2020
110
disbanding their police force and then what?
Jun 08th 2020
181
      maybe go read the reporting on it and find out
Jun 08th 2020
239
           a Utopian world without crime?! Haha! In Wreck It Ralph, maybe...
Jun 08th 2020
252
                i need to know if you're white or not.
Jun 09th 2020
300
                     i hope you do know black folks don't like lawlessness either
Jun 09th 2020
309
                          i reckon they like being murdered by police even less
Jun 09th 2020
310
                               you're swinging at air like Cuba Gooding at this point....
Jun 09th 2020
317
                                    i don't need to convince you. that's fine w/me.
Jun 10th 2020
328
?????
Jun 08th 2020
114
Defund the Police will play as well as they thought dem-socialism would
Jun 08th 2020
116
      omg you're absolutely right!
Jun 08th 2020
118
           you must be so fun to work with
Jun 08th 2020
129
                I actually am.
Jun 08th 2020
240
The worst. Might as well have gift wrapped this for Trump
Jun 08th 2020
120
After last night in Seattle too
Jun 08th 2020
138
      two things:
Jun 08th 2020
           oh you wanna talk semantics?
Jun 09th 2020
273
                you scurred.
Jun 09th 2020
285
                     oh wait. you're a bernie guy aren't you
Jun 10th 2020
320
                          cool deflection.
Jun 10th 2020
327
                               of?
Jun 12th 2020
351
SMH
Jun 08th 2020
168
Fucking millennials.
Jun 08th 2020
119
'blame the millennials' here we go AGAIN
Jun 08th 2020
133
People over 40 aren't driving this kind of dumb shit.
Jun 08th 2020
134
      this is an important difference between the right and the left.
Jun 08th 2020
139
      you're being extremely dismissive and small minded
Jun 08th 2020
141
           Yes I am.
Jun 08th 2020
142
You're white.
Jun 08th 2020
158
we need a roster of white okps so i can know who to fucking dismiss
Jun 08th 2020
241
shut the fuck up, colonizer.
Jun 08th 2020
242
It's a simple reason Trump tweets "Law and Order!" every hour on the dot
Jun 08th 2020
121
repubs dont even have to attack/address the policies.
Jun 08th 2020
126
      Reminds me of the Green New Deal, and Medicare For All.
Jun 08th 2020
132
           i was gonna bring up the green new deal in my reply.
Jun 08th 2020
135
           wow. Well said
Jun 08th 2020
136
           Yup
Jun 08th 2020
146
           hol up
Jun 09th 2020
294
The branding sucks
Jun 08th 2020
123
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/07/nyregion/deblasio-nypd-funding.html
Jun 08th 2020
127
THis will play as well as they thought Democratic Socialism would play
Jun 08th 2020
140
this is making me appreciate that Black Lives Matter is perfect branding
Jun 08th 2020
144
quite amazing how quickly this came up and turned into planned action
Jun 08th 2020
143
What's happening in Minneapolis is police reform.
Jun 08th 2020
145
      You're in Minneapolis?
Jun 08th 2020
148
      first of all, who the fuck is 'we'?
Jun 08th 2020
251
This is the best time to drop this book in here
Jun 08th 2020
147
the argument that "reform the police!" would be better
Jun 08th 2020
150
This is a good summary of why I'm conflicted on the wording
Jun 08th 2020
152
there's nothing that someone can't pretend to not understand
Jun 08th 2020
164
The "matter" makes the "too" redundant
Jun 08th 2020
180
      being clear and concise has not taken any ammunition
Jun 08th 2020
187
           LOL
Jun 08th 2020
194
                you want to use that logic go ahead
Jun 08th 2020
205
                     "it's not the slogan's problem"
Jun 08th 2020
207
                          do you want to use that logic.
Jun 08th 2020
208
                               that most people will think Defund means Defund and not Defund* ?
Jun 08th 2020
215
                                    it's too extreme? you wouldn't want to shift the overton window
Jun 08th 2020
217
                                         buena suerte
Jun 08th 2020
219
                                              told you
Jun 08th 2020
220
                                                   don't cry
Jun 08th 2020
222
Yeah, these complaints about a slogan read funny
Jun 08th 2020
153
But at least We Want Free could have a consensus interpretation
Jun 08th 2020
155
      LOL. that's complete horseshit.
Jun 08th 2020
163
It's not about getting support from the opposition
Jun 08th 2020
154
which movement ever has existed where the opposition didn't have
Jun 08th 2020
162
giving a fuck about the opposition is your first problem.
Jun 08th 2020
243
bingo.
Jun 08th 2020
159
false dichotomy. Certainly there can be other ideas for a slogan
Jun 09th 2020
274
      I don't think you know what the word dichotomy means
Jun 09th 2020
311
dems coulda spent the next few weeks pushing their police reform bill,
Jun 08th 2020
160
lol it was like an SNL skit man
Jun 08th 2020
166
exactly *face palm*
Jun 08th 2020
169
terrible slogan
Jun 08th 2020
170
kamala harris was not tryna hear it.
Jun 08th 2020
171
if y'all have better ideas I'm open to them
Jun 08th 2020
173
start with a slogan that actually means what you want it to.
Jun 08th 2020
176
      you got one lay it on me.
Jun 08th 2020
179
           since everyone says police reform or reform policing
Jun 08th 2020
185
                ok hit the streets and make reform policing pop
Jun 08th 2020
188
                its working for criminal justice reform.
Jun 08th 2020
192
                     which slogan is that one?
Jun 08th 2020
200
                          criminal justice reform.
Jun 08th 2020
210
                               LOL
Jun 08th 2020
213
                                    people dont protest for criminal justice reform?
Jun 08th 2020
216
                                         people have been pushing for criminal justice reform for...centuries
Jun 08th 2020
218
                                              youre just winging it at this point.
Jun 08th 2020
225
                                                   winging what? you don't want to bring your better solution
Jun 08th 2020
229
                also, "everyone says" reform policing is not accurate
Jun 08th 2020
189
"take some excess funds from police and reallocate"
Jun 08th 2020
175
i think it might actually fizzle quickly but only because
Jun 08th 2020
178
      Meanwhile "the press is the enemy of the people" is just fine
Jun 08th 2020
186
           bernie tried this. how did that go?
Jun 08th 2020
196
                Pretty damn well. One dude in his 70s doesn’t make it a bad idea
Jun 08th 2020
198
Well, she and Sunny tried to save it but used the wrong interpretation.
Jun 08th 2020
183
damn you be hatin on a sista.
Jun 08th 2020
191
      lol! I wasn't hating! Maybe you're just extra protective of your fave :)
Jun 08th 2020
203
           um, he just promoted m4a as a good slogan
Jun 08th 2020
206
                youre really bad at this. thats not what i did at all.
Jun 08th 2020
209
                     you don't have to argue with me about it, this is between y'all
Jun 08th 2020
212
so what do you think should be done about police?
Jun 08th 2020
244
her record is brutal
Jun 09th 2020
263
Might as well cal it "Defund The Police... no wait, just hear me out"
Jun 08th 2020
174
lol i like how people say theres nothing wrong with the slogan
Jun 08th 2020
182
      remind me of the great slogans for change you've promoted
Jun 08th 2020
190
      you think people protest just to yell slogans lol. thats funny.
Jun 08th 2020
195
           cool, protest w/o slogans.
Jun 08th 2020
201
                not everyone can be a 40 yr old message board troll. salute.
Jun 08th 2020
228
                if that's how you feel about yourself
Jun 08th 2020
236
                RE: cool, protest w/o slogans.
Jun 09th 2020
298
      leave it to the thinkpiece crowd push a clickbait slogan
Jun 08th 2020
193
      niggas viewing life as a set of hashtags.
Jun 08th 2020
197
      or, direct action. where's your action?
Jun 08th 2020
202
           heres some of my action:
Jun 08th 2020
224
                yeah I don't publicize my donations
Jun 08th 2020
233
                     exactly.
Jun 08th 2020
235
                          yes, exactly.
Jun 08th 2020
237
      please tell us what you think should be done
Jun 08th 2020
245
           You can't criticize a shitty idea unless you have the answer?
Jun 08th 2020
254
                none of your arguments about it being shitty hold up to even minor scrut...
Jun 08th 2020
255
                     that wasn't the question
Jun 09th 2020
257
                          so then answer the actual question.
Jun 09th 2020
313
                          skipped over the question
Jun 09th 2020
314
      one second you're hyped up on medicare 4 all
Jun 08th 2020
204
      you need to be hyped up on reading comprehension.
Jun 08th 2020
214
           you brought it up as your counter example
Jun 08th 2020
221
                irony:
Jun 08th 2020
227
                     you'll note that your response did not contain any ideas.
Jun 08th 2020
230
                          irony:
Jun 08th 2020
234
      M4A was and is a terrible slogan tho man
Jun 08th 2020
223
      im not endorsing medicare for all as a slogan.
Jun 08th 2020
226
           .....the fine print *is* different from the headline though
Jun 08th 2020
231
                then you shouldnt be struggling to comprehend that.
Jun 08th 2020
232
                     ....it's your example that's ruined.
Jun 08th 2020
238
      the fact that you're so butthurt over a slogan says alot about you
Jun 08th 2020
247
           youre the only butthurt person in here. get yourself together.
Jun 09th 2020
259
Y'all act like Goldwater and Reagan running in '76 wasn't a thing
Jun 08th 2020
177
i think it's a great idea/slogan
Jun 08th 2020
184
RE: i think it's a great idea/slogan
Jun 08th 2020
248
Trump already on the case, making SURE this as a campaign talking point
Jun 08th 2020
199
so? he's going to do that with everything
Jun 08th 2020
249
      afraid?! LMAO! Naw...I just know checkers moves when I see them
Jun 08th 2020
253
           he has no "moves"...nothing original. just obfuscation.
Jun 09th 2020
301
Defund is the nice way of saying it. It used to be ABOLISH.
Jun 08th 2020
246
but what would sean hannity say about that /s
Jun 08th 2020
256
      keep pretending it's only the far right who isn't into this
Jun 09th 2020
258
      I don't think that's something I actually said.
Jun 09th 2020
260
           i don't think anyone mentioned sean hannity either
Jun 09th 2020
283
                ok strav did
Jun 09th 2020
288
      yeah that's what we care about here
Jun 09th 2020
275
I think it's short sited
Jun 09th 2020
261
reform and reallocate.
Jun 09th 2020
262
lol
Jun 09th 2020
264
thank you for suggesting an alternative tho
Jun 09th 2020
265
Most civil thing you could ask for, and yet people are squeamish lol
Jun 09th 2020
268
I've definitely warmed all the way up to it. I like Fuck the Police bett...
Jun 09th 2020
269
I'm still lukewarm on it as a slogan and a plan
Jun 09th 2020
271
      that part.
Jun 09th 2020
303
unsurprising polling by yahoo/yougov:
Jun 09th 2020
272
What I'm liking more, after thinking and reading the past few days is......
Jun 09th 2020
276
'defund' is not broad in most peoples minds tho.
Jun 09th 2020
277
      I hear you fam...but damn if this shit ain't working...DC just passed so...
Jun 09th 2020
296
           this line in the article is so telling ...
Jun 09th 2020
315
bernie distances himself from defund/abolish police.
Jun 09th 2020
278
They are out of his control now too
Jun 09th 2020
281
LOL
Jun 09th 2020
305
I'm waiting for Rand Paul to get behind this
Jun 09th 2020
287
lol every time you and Amristar post, I smile wider
Jun 09th 2020
304
poll yours!
Jun 09th 2020
302
Just heard a good one: Defund the Police, Refund the People
Jun 09th 2020
279
thread on how 'defund the police' began as a qanon/russian psyop.
Jun 09th 2020
280
yeah the boogaloos support it too but for different reasons.
Jun 09th 2020
282
im with it. these niggas got too much money, resources and power
Jun 09th 2020
284
Yup
Jun 09th 2020
286
Camden, NJ defunded police force in 2012 to get rid of corruption
Jun 09th 2020
289
Camden is often cited as a success
Jun 09th 2020
290
They deunionized the force and doubled the number of officers.
Jun 09th 2020
291
I think kicking bad cops to the curb and replacing them
Jun 09th 2020
292
you mean we have the actually read the articles?
Jun 10th 2020
321
Exactly. This is what worked for Camden...so much good
Jun 09th 2020
306
RE: Camden, NJ defunded police force in 2012 to get rid of corruption
Jun 10th 2020
340
pretty telling that THIS post about the protests has the most replies
Jun 09th 2020
293
Post count has little to do with how much OKP cares about a topic
Jun 09th 2020
295
-------------
Jun 09th 2020
308
THANK YOU.
Jun 09th 2020
307
I don't think people even have to have their own idea
Jun 09th 2020
312
I really don't know when okp became so mean and complacent
Jun 10th 2020
324
FTR the record, that was NOT the spirit of that post & if you read thoro...
Jun 10th 2020
326
I havent heard this as a slogan before last week
Jun 09th 2020
297
neither had I. i'm learning that it was born out of Ferguson
Jun 10th 2020
332
Divest, boycott and sanction
Jun 09th 2020
316
Local article about this. Arlington, VA. Lively comment section
Jun 10th 2020
318
I don’t care what the term actually is —it’s working right now
Jun 10th 2020
319
Right on
Jun 10th 2020
322
working for whom tho
Jun 10th 2020
323
      RE: working for whom tho
Jun 10th 2020
329
‘Defund the police’ is a call to imagine a safer America. (Wapo Swip...
Jun 10th 2020
330
A tale of two rallying cries... (images c/o Seattle,WA):
Jun 10th 2020
333
Thats cherrypicking as fuck
Jun 10th 2020
334
I did my best; it's same city, a week apart. Anyway, I hear you on the
Jun 10th 2020
337
That second account is pretty reactionary
Jun 10th 2020
335
      That may be, I should've checked. I was just curious to see how a Defund
Jun 10th 2020
338
It's understandable to fear the unknown of a life without police
Jun 10th 2020
336
Wait. Now I’m confused.
Jun 10th 2020
339
if you're confused, let the experts explain. Hella Black Podcast
Jun 10th 2020
343
i applaud this post.
Jun 10th 2020
341
smh
Jun 11th 2020
347
      here's more info on what a 'police free future' might look like:
Jun 11th 2020
348
It's Defund The Police, Not Defund Public Safety
Jun 10th 2020
342
I actually throw garlic at my cooking problems
Jun 10th 2020
344
Thanks for sharing. Question: Do you (or anyone) have resources/insights
Jun 10th 2020
345
Former cop for defunding the police:
Jun 11th 2020
346
this part
Jun 12th 2020
349
Great read...because it's Medium, I don't fully trust it was an actual f...
Jun 12th 2020
350
"defunding the police" underwater 29%-49% among black people.
Jun 12th 2020
352
"underwater"
Jun 12th 2020
353
im surprised you dont know what underwater means
Jun 16th 2020
362
you'd have to be a fucking idiot to push "banning chokeholds"
Jun 12th 2020
354
      internal department policy vs state/federal criminal law.
Jun 16th 2020
361
Well shit after APD killed *another* Black man "Defund The Police"
Jun 13th 2020
355
the police themselves are moving it faster
Jun 15th 2020
357
I did not know the history of the EMS
Jun 15th 2020
358
That was incredibly interesting
Jun 15th 2020
359
right? all arguments aside, this is a historical fact that I knew nothin...
Jun 16th 2020
364
damn.thanks.
Jun 16th 2020
360
Thank you Damali
Jun 16th 2020
363
you're welcome. the real convos and education in here are so good
Jun 18th 2020
365
LOL I've just been silently reading all her posts but ...
Jun 18th 2020
371
One thing far, far worse than the slogan
Jun 18th 2020
366
Yep. Literally anti-intelligence. Anti-knowingstuff.
Jun 18th 2020
372
Just saw a 3AM commercial on HGTV about defunding the police
Jun 18th 2020
367
Well that certainly settles it.
Jun 18th 2020
368
Yup.
Jun 18th 2020
369
no Trump supporter can argue against defunding the police
Jun 18th 2020
370
LOL wow right. Forgot about that.
Jun 18th 2020
374
Yooooooo hahahaah c'mon.
Jun 18th 2020
373
I thought it was going to be the typical ADT commercial
Jun 19th 2020
377
Haven't seen the ad myself, but not surprised at all
Jun 19th 2020
378
Can’t find it anywhere online
Jun 19th 2020
380
1st...the fck you watchin HGTV @ 3am for???
Jun 19th 2020
381
Huh? It was lunchtime in the break room at work
Jun 19th 2020
383
Wait. I think I missed the joke. You know the 3AM reference is from
Jun 19th 2020
384
      Damn..LOL...I actually did NOT know that....lol...
Jun 19th 2020
387
      Smh.. why am I not surprised.
Jun 19th 2020
388
           Pssht...Obama had my vote the minute he threw his hat in..
Jun 19th 2020
389
      I had completely forgotten about that
Jun 19th 2020
391
It's called "Danger "
Jun 19th 2020
393
The movement needs more science
Jun 18th 2020
375
Definitely. Darity's done a lot of empirical heavylifting re:reparations...
Jun 19th 2020
376
RE: Definitely. Darity's done a lot of empirical heavylifting re:reparat...
Jun 19th 2020
382
      I know! That's a problem. Imho anyway. And also why I limit my criticism
Jun 19th 2020
385
in this boat
Jun 19th 2020
379
RE: more facts, less feelings
Jun 19th 2020
386
Well, actually
Jun 19th 2020
390
      RE: Well, actually
Jun 19th 2020
392
           RE: Well, actually
Jun 19th 2020
394
                lol
Jun 21st 2020
395
I've changed my mind, I think "Defund the Police" is a bad name for the
Jul 23rd 2020
396
It’s always been a bad name IMO
Jul 23rd 2020
397
I kept comparing it to how people hated BLM
Jul 23rd 2020
398
      Turning inner cities into war zones
Jul 24th 2020
404
sit this one out, chief.
Jul 23rd 2020
399
exactly...knew that shit was a gift the second I saw that dumb as phrase
Jul 23rd 2020
400
months later... still a political softball
Jul 24th 2020
401
that's weird, because his support keeps dropping
Jul 24th 2020
402
I wouldn’t be surprised if it was a GOP plant who came up with it
Jul 24th 2020
403
huh? his support is still dropping. its absolutely a terrible name tho
Jul 24th 2020
405
It should continue to drop. He’s a fucking idiot.
Jul 24th 2020
406
His support is dropping because of Corona. We all know this.
Jul 24th 2020
407
      so because he's trying it and it's not working, then it's obviously work...
Jul 24th 2020
408
is there some big debate on cable news about this?
Jul 24th 2020
409
      There are a lot of things you never been able to figure out bro-ham.
Jul 24th 2020
410

Numba_33
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Fri Jun-05-20 01:38 PM

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1. "Given this past week"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

and how DiBlasio has opted to bury his head in the sand with the numerous beat-downs and abuse given out to peaceful protesters by the NYPD, I will be shocked and stunned if that becomes a reality here in NYC.

I have to imagine the PBA and Patrick Lynch will battle hard to ensure that won't happen.

Time will tell.

I'm sure that will become a reality in other cities where the police union is nearly as strong as it is here in NYC. Kudos to those cities; hopefully that funding will get reallocated toward education and/or social programs.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
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Fri Jun-05-20 01:59 PM

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2. "oh its a long battle, no doubt"
In response to Reply # 1


          

But the fact that the concept and conversation has entered the collective consciousness is a huge first step.

Once certain areas take it seriously and implement the reform, others will be watching and assessing etc

d

  

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Numba_33
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Fri Jun-05-20 02:26 PM

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4. "It a drop in the bucket monetarily "
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

but it's a very good look that L.A. is at least leading the charge with the dollars they are looking to trim.

Hopefully other large cities will take the same course of action, especially since budgets are tight due to decreased revenues as result of COVID-19.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
34861 posts
Fri Jun-05-20 04:16 PM

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15. "definitely."
In response to Reply # 4


          

>but it's a very good look that L.A. is at least leading the
>charge with the dollars they are looking to trim.

let's hope they follow through...$150mil is good amount of money to divert to other community initiatives that have been severely underfunded.

>Hopefully other large cities will take the same course of
>action, especially since budgets are tight due to decreased
>revenues as result of COVID-19.

exactly. It will be interesting to see cities navigate the need to pay all this police overtime while telling poor folks they don't have no money for unemployment.

d

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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83. "Yep yep yep. Was psyched to see LA make the first move."
In response to Reply # 15


          

>>but it's a very good look that L.A. is at least leading the
>>charge with the dollars they are looking to trim.
>
>let's hope they follow through...$150mil is good amount of
>money to divert to other community initiatives that have been
>severely underfunded.
>
>>Hopefully other large cities will take the same course of
>>action, especially since budgets are tight due to decreased
>>revenues as result of COVID-19.
>
>exactly. It will be interesting to see cities navigate the
>need to pay all this police overtime while telling poor folks
>they don't have no money for unemployment.
>
>d
>

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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ThaTruth
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Fri Jun-05-20 02:23 PM

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3. "People that say that don’t even know what that means lol"
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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FLUIDJ
Member since Sep 18th 2002
43174 posts
Fri Jun-05-20 02:43 PM

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5. "*raises hand* what DOES it mean?? On the surface, sounds kinda like a "
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

bad idea....
but I'm about to read up on it.....

Good link here about local discussion BLM coordinator had with the Arlington County Police Department though....
One thing that REALLY jumps out is that ACPD doesn't have body cameras because of the high cost of data storage.....
*stares at camera*....
really????!!??? THAT'S why???
One of if not THE RICHEST county in the entire state of VA....

https://www.arlnow.com/2020/06/05/arlington-police-talk-review-panels-and-body-cameras/

  

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micMajestic
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Fri Jun-05-20 02:57 PM

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6. "Some of the govt funds that go to the police force would be reallocated ..."
In response to Reply # 5
Fri Jun-05-20 02:58 PM by micMajestic

  

          

to services that would improve the quality of life of the communities they serve.

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
34861 posts
Fri Jun-05-20 04:11 PM

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13. "Its literally explained in all the links i posted."
In response to Reply # 5


          

  

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LAbeathustla
Member since Jan 24th 2004
33786 posts
Fri Jun-05-20 04:17 PM

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16. "billie clubs and shiny shoes."
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

------------------------------------
2019 CABG Survivor

2016 OK Survivor Champion

be about it or be without it

RIP GOATs

  

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PROMO
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26257 posts
Fri Jun-05-20 03:10 PM

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7. "educate us."
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

STAND OUT HAND OUTS: http://basquiatwhenipaint.tumblr.com

TWEET ME: @PROMO206

  

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ThaTruth
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92047 posts
Fri Jun-05-20 03:33 PM

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8. "It’s an extremely complicated issue that sounds good to say until you...."
In response to Reply # 7


          

get into the details.

It’s Bernie Sanders-style pie in the sky Pollyanna talk but it’s not realistic.

  

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Brotha Sun
Member since Dec 31st 2009
6288 posts
Fri Jun-05-20 03:45 PM

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9. "Sad, weak, directionless rhetoric. "
In response to Reply # 8


          

"When you look into the details" you aint got no details you just scared and cynical. tell the truth.

"They used to call me Baby Luke....but now? The whole damn 2 Liiiive Crew."

  

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PROMO
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10. "thus, my reply."
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

like, you just gonna come in here an boo hoo the shit, say why. provide facts.

it's funny because departments constantly whine that they are underfunded and understaffed, but we literally live in a surveillance state. that's a problem in and of itself, but what it's doing is effectively policing most of us all the time.

so, if that's the case, can we at least get rid of these storm troopin' mofos?

STAND OUT HAND OUTS: http://basquiatwhenipaint.tumblr.com

TWEET ME: @PROMO206

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
20498 posts
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84. "^"
In response to Reply # 9


          

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Numba_33
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11. "RE: It’s an extremely complicated issue that sounds good to say until ..."
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

>get into the details.
>
>It’s Bernie Sanders-style pie in the sky Pollyanna talk but
>it’s not realistic.

Why isn't it realistic? I don't want to get into a back and forth argument with you on the matter; I want to see points of view that directly counter mine just to see what other points of view may look like.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
34861 posts
Fri Jun-05-20 04:14 PM

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14. "which details? how is it unrealistic?"
In response to Reply # 8


          

you got critiques, but no facts or analysis.

solutions are ALWAYS complicated. you ain't saying nothing by saying that.

as usual, you're full of shit.

d

  

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ThaTruth
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Fri Jun-05-20 09:33 PM

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33. "When somebody robs you who you gonna call? Ghostbusters?"
In response to Reply # 14


          

Most major cities are struggling with solutions for violent crimes WITH police? How is it going to work without police? Private security? Is everybody going to be nice to each other?

I’m honestly not trying to be a smartass but literally every other civilized society in the world has some form of people.

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
34861 posts
Fri Jun-05-20 10:26 PM

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35. "No, its more complex than that."
In response to Reply # 33
Fri Jun-05-20 10:53 PM by Damali

          

>Most major cities are struggling with solutions for violent
>crimes WITH police?

you gotta first gotta acknowledge there's two kinds of crime: person to person (murders, rapes, theft, drug trade etc) and white collar/corporate(insider trading, fraud, collusion, wage theft, etc).

since people generally use the word crime to only mean "person to person" (which partly explains why the other kind isn't as heavily punished even though in many ways, its worse), you must examine and address the root causes of most of that crime: poverty & lack of access to education.

How is it going to work without police?
>Private security? Is everybody going to be nice to each other?

There are other ways to address public safety without a militarized, racist, violent police force....especially one that has its origins firmly rooted in slave patrols and white supremacy.

There are no simple answers to any of your questions, but the point is to engage in community-involved dialogue to find alternatives that fit each individual community, then empower the local and state governments to use divested funds to implement them.

>I’m honestly not trying to be a smartass but literally every
>other civilized society in the world has some form of people.

yes, you hit the nail on the head. "some form" is the point. This form...this violent army of unaccountable people, isn't it for a country that hasn't yet addressed & rooted out its original sin of racism.


Read the links, and/or read this book:
https://www.versobooks.com/books/2426-the-end-of-policing

It's so important to educate yourself away from a mindset that accepts white society's oppressive organizations. Maybe engage with more Black grassroots activists? Hella Black Podcast is excellent...two Oakland Black dudes...give it a listen if you don't iike reading.

d

p.s. once the KKK/skinheads fell out of mainstream acceptance in the 70s and 80s, guess which profession many of them chose to "hide" in?

  

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ThaTruth
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38. "So you took multiple paragraphs to say what I said in one sentence..."
In response to Reply # 35


          

in post #8.

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
34861 posts
Sat Jun-06-20 10:30 AM

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40. "i gave you a sincere reply with no snark and you're being an asshole."
In response to Reply # 38
Sat Jun-06-20 10:34 AM by Damali

          

as per usual.

you didn't say shit in reply 8 cuz you don't know what the fuck you talking about, as usual.

fucking coward.. 'oh booo hooo defunding the police is so complicated!'

no you're just too fucking dumb to spend a second to think about it.

go sit down somewhere and jerk off and let the adults handle this, chief.

d

  

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ThaTruth
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Sat Jun-06-20 11:14 AM

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42. "okayplayer. n/m"
In response to Reply # 40


          

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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87. "LOL"
In response to Reply # 40


          

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
20498 posts
Sun Jun-07-20 03:00 PM

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86. "She provided information and nuanced discussion points ..."
In response to Reply # 38


          

... about a major issue, on multiple levels, and therefore worthy of advanced, ongoing brainstorming and consideration.

You, meanwhile, blindly dismissed the idea because "details" without offering even a single critical thought to consider. Then claimed victory.

What a strange way to operate a topic that you yourself acknowledged is complicated.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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fontgangsta
Member since Sep 04th 2005
5318 posts
Tue Jun-09-20 07:47 AM

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266. "the safest neighborhoods and cities dont have the most cops"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

they have the most resources

>When somebody robs you who you gonna call? Ghostbusters?

  

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kfine
Member since Jan 11th 2009
1671 posts
Fri Jun-05-20 04:28 PM

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17. "I'll admit... the first thing I start to think is that a lot of "
In response to Reply # 8
Fri Jun-05-20 04:29 PM by kfine

          

programmatic and training reforms that could improve policing would probably require "more" funding/investment, not less...

Tbf, I'm not well-versed in this area at all, and would welcome being corrected/persuaded to a more comprehensive view. But I draw from what I've observed is often done to address disparities in other domains (eg. healthcare, education).

I wonder sometimes whether there's some conflation of policing issues with the military industrial complex in the discourse?? There's painfully obvious intersection for sure, not denying that... but it does seem that solutions for each might/should need to be structured differently.

But again, just the first thing that comes to mind for me..

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
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Fri Jun-05-20 06:14 PM

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23. "RE: I'll admit... the first thing I start to think is that a lot of "
In response to Reply # 17


          

>programmatic and training reforms that could improve policing
>would probably require "more" funding/investment, not less...

Not necessarily. Monies allocated for the hypermilitarization of police (military grade weapons, fortified SUVs & vans, riot gear etc) could be diverted toward programmatic and training reforms.



>Tbf, I'm not well-versed in this area at all, and would
>welcome being corrected/persuaded to a more comprehensive
>view. But I draw from what I've observed is often done to
>address disparities in other domains (eg. healthcare,
>education).

It's ok..the links I provided in the OP have alot of specific info. But policing can't be compared to healthcare and edcuation because the origin of policing is slave patrols and generally, white supremacy. Police forces operate in service of the ruling class...the wider the gap between the haves and the have nots, the more police are relied on. (LA, NYC, Chicago etc) Just look at who gets to weaponize the police against the masses and exactly how they do it...

>I wonder sometimes whether there's some conflation of policing
>issues with the military industrial complex in the discourse??

Yes, and its an appropriate overlap because of how the police use military equipment and tactics against the citizenry. its gotten worse and worse since the post-9/11 Patriot Act was signed into law and NYC (and other potential city targets) were able to access federal funds to help protect against a terrorist attack.

In addition, the police force feeds the prison industrial complex, as well. round up black men and women for minor offenses, railroad them into convictions, imprison them and hey look! cheap/free labor for private prisons and corporations


>There's painfully obvious intersection for sure, not denying
>that... but it does seem that solutions for each might/should
>need to be structured differently.

yes they're related but not identical...the important thing is that the ideas are even being seriously discussed/considered.

d

  

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kfine
Member since Jan 11th 2009
1671 posts
Sun Jun-07-20 01:42 PM

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63. "I hear ya."
In response to Reply # 23


          


>
>Not necessarily. Monies allocated for the hypermilitarization
>of police (military grade weapons, fortified SUVs & vans, riot
>gear etc) could be diverted toward programmatic and training
>reforms.
>
>

100%. This definitely makes sense, and I think it's closer to where I thought the consensus was surrounding this issue... demilitarization, repurposing funds, narrowing scope of mission/operations/responsibility, etc. But after reading the articles you linked it's clear the phrase is anchored in eradicating/abolishing police altogether, which is a much more extreme measure. And what I worry is that Defund the Police would simply become the next hashtag activism fad (eg. # Abolish ICE, # GND) that kind of... rushes to package folks' dissatisfaction into a neat 2-3 word slogan but drowns out the specifics that could translate to actual change. The slogans dont have the best track record so far

>
>It's ok..the links I provided in the OP have alot of specific
>info. But policing can't be compared to healthcare and
>edcuation because the origin of policing is slave patrols and
>generally, white supremacy. Police forces operate in service
>of the ruling class...the wider the gap between the haves and
>the have nots, the more police are relied on. (LA, NYC,
>Chicago etc) Just look at who gets to weaponize the police
>against the masses and exactly how they do it...


I understand where you're coming from. And it's difficult to translate experiences with law enforcement in other parts of the world sometimes because of the US history/conditions you're talking about. This is a bias I can admit to, personally, because I've been lucky to witness - again, outside the US - extremely humane policing on more than one occasion involving members of my own family. In one fateful incident, humane policing even saved my family member's life (a black adult male with special needs, no less). I'm talking about a level of sensitivity, protection, care, and respect for privacy that brought us to our knees in tears. All I could think after these interactions occured was how grateful I was for the efforts made by my city to hire only the best people to staff that force and train them exceptionally, and I would rank those police interactions as high if not higher than interactions we'd had with some doctors and teachers. So while I'm not so naive to think those experiences automatically translate to every officer, police force, jurisdiction or could even be possible in the US... I feel like it's because I've experienced how good public safety *can be* that I end up concluding the neccesary transformations probably require more resources, not less.

THAT SAID, I did admit I'm not super knowledgeable in this area and I have to thank you, Buddy, and allStah for educating/reminding me of some key points I hadn't put into context. I think where I'm leaning now is I still agree demilitarization is long overdue, as well as stricter accountability and oversight... but with the current funding levels most PDs receive (I think one of the articles linked mentioned PDs receive ~50% of General Funds, on average) they could probably withstand significant budget cuts and still have more than enough money to repurpose to better screening, training, and other measures. allStahs point about the pensions and redundant income streams is particularly concerning, as I'm sure that sort of thing is rampant. PDs can't complain about funding if their mismanagement is that blatant.

I still think the Defund slogan is problematic messaging, tho. Bc even if many intend for it to mean reducing or repurposing funding, a staunch contingent also mean abolishing police altogether.. and I'd hate to see the unprecedented support for reform right now wasted because the hashtag fell on deaf ears, as others have.


>
>yes they're related but not identical...the important thing is
>that the ideas are even being seriously discussed/considered.
>

On this, we definitely agree 1000%

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
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72. "RE: I hear ya."
In response to Reply # 63


          


>100%. This definitely makes sense, and I think it's closer to
>where I thought the consensus was surrounding this issue...
>demilitarization, repurposing funds, narrowing scope of
>mission/operations/responsibility, etc. But after reading the
>articles you linked it's clear the phrase is anchored in
>eradicating/abolishing police altogether, which is a much more
>extreme measure.

In some places, that measure should also be considered. its only being called "extreme" because its a new idea that sounds impossible. so much of what we currently accept as normal was considered 'extreme' at some point (blacks & whites marrying, blacks voting, gays marrying, abolishing the death penalty)...so we gotta be careful with that language.


And what I worry is that Defund the Police
>would simply become the next hashtag activism fad (eg. #
>Abolish ICE, # GND) that kind of... rushes to package folks'
>dissatisfaction into a neat 2-3 word slogan but drowns out the
>specifics that could translate to actual change. The slogans
>dont have the best track record so far

again, its a new concept and its been quite effective at getting a "foot in the door" so to speak...the messaging will evolve as conversations and details evolve and that's ok...getting hung up on the message is the opposite of what's needed right now....but again, good old America stay focused on the wrong shit lol (not you, just speaking generally)


>
>I understand where you're coming from. And it's difficult to
>translate experiences with law enforcement in other parts of
>the world sometimes because of the US history/conditions
>you're talking about. This is a bias I can admit to,
>personally, because I've been lucky to witness - again,
>outside the US - extremely humane policing on more than one
>occasion involving members of my own family. In one fateful
>incident, humane policing even saved my family member's life
>(a black adult male with special needs, no less). I'm talking
>about a level of sensitivity, protection, care, and respect
>for privacy that brought us to our knees in tears. All I could
>think after these interactions occured was how grateful I was
>for the efforts made by my city to hire only the best people
>to staff that force and train them exceptionally, and I would
>rank those police interactions as high if not higher than
>interactions we'd had with some doctors and teachers. So while
>I'm not so naive to think those experiences automatically
>translate to every officer, police force, jurisdiction or
>could even be possible in the US

It is possible. You just very beautifully described exactly what the eventual outcome of defunding and/or abolishing the way we approach policing in the US could look like...well done!


... I feel like it's because
>I've experienced how good public safety *can be* that I end up
>concluding the neccesary transformations probably require more
>resources, not less.

more resources in the right places though...not on military grade weaponry etc...public safety initiatives do not have to center the police force. police should not be the go to for every situation (mental health challenges, school situations, petty thefts etc)


>THAT SAID, I did admit I'm not super knowledgeable in this
>area and I have to thank you, Buddy, and allStah for
>educating/reminding me of some key points I hadn't put into
>context. I think where I'm leaning now is I still agree
>demilitarization is long overdue, as well as stricter
>accountability and oversight... but with the current funding
>levels most PDs receive (I think one of the articles linked
>mentioned PDs receive ~50% of General Funds, on average) they
>could probably withstand significant budget cuts and still
>have more than enough money to repurpose to better screening,
>training, and other measures. allStahs point about the
>pensions and redundant income streams is particularly
>concerning, as I'm sure that sort of thing is rampant. PDs
>can't complain about funding if their mismanagement is that
>blatant.

you're welcome..this is all new to me as well and i'm constantly learning more and more.

>I still think the Defund slogan is problematic messaging, tho.
>Bc even if many intend for it to mean reducing or repurposing
>funding, a staunch contingent also mean abolishing police
>altogether.. and I'd hate to see the unprecedented support for
>reform right now wasted because the hashtag fell on deaf ears,
>as others have.

again, its gone beyond a hashtag already. The Minneapolis school district has cancelled its contract with the MPD. LAPD has committed to reallocating up to $150mil from the police force to other community initiatives. its happening..its starting. the messaging will evolve.

every community that does this will do it in a different way, which is how it should be. defund or abolish should be done on a city by city basis depending on the what the needs/challenges of that locality are.

>>yes they're related but not identical...the important thing
>is
>>that the ideas are even being seriously
>discussed/considered.
>>
>
>On this, we definitely agree 1000%
>

Cheers, mate

d

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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88. "This times a trillion."
In response to Reply # 23


          

>>programmatic and training reforms that could improve
>policing
>>would probably require "more" funding/investment, not
>less...
>
>Not necessarily. Monies allocated for the hypermilitarization
>of police (military grade weapons, fortified SUVs & vans, riot
>gear etc) could be diverted toward programmatic and training
>reforms.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
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12. "I know exactly what it means. But thanks for your useless comment."
In response to Reply # 3


          

d

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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18. "I've been thinking about how "radical" ideas have been becoming..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

mainstream at super sudden speeds these days.

Gay Marriage.
BLM
UBI

Like you go back and look at past discussions on some of these topics even here and you can see how quickly opinions are changing.

When you read up on it, it makes soooo much sense. Police get waaaay to much of our public spend for social services when the ROI is so much better on education and other positive interventions. It really is a no brainer if you take politics out of it.

My big concern with progressives is that this should be an aspirational goal and thought leaders should be planting the seeds for it now, but it should not be a presidential platform position for 2020.



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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kfine
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20. "Could you give an example of this by any chance?? No snark"
In response to Reply # 18


          


>
>Police get
>waaaay to much of our public spend for social services

like from a jurisdiction's budget you're familiar with, and in contrast to appropriations for other areas. Are PDs really swimming in cash like that, percentage-wise?

  

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allStah
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21. "RE: Could you give an example of this by any chance?? No snark"
In response to Reply # 20
Fri Jun-05-20 05:47 PM by allStah

          

Well, I can give you an example here in Chicago.

One of the main reasons chicago is in debt is because of pension funding, especially for police officers.

Chicago has the highest sales tax in the country, and steep property taxes, as well as other ridiculous taxes that other cities don’t have. And the majority of the money from those taxes go to paying the guaranteed pension fund of police officers. It has crippled the cities ability to get out of the red, and increases it every year.

This all happened because former Mayor Daley increased the pension benefits of police officers, as well as the pension being severely underfunded in the 90s, so Chicago just keeps increasing taxes and making up new ones to cover the cost.


So taxpayers are paying astronomical amounts of money in taxes to fund police officers who are not protecting and serving the community in a just fashion.

Here is something that is even more comical, you have police officers who are getting pension payments and getting a salary! You can retire as a police officer, collect your pension, and then get rehired as a police officer, getting your pension payments and a new salary. The taxpayer pays twice!


“James Hickey retired as a police lieutenant on Sept. 30, 1999, with an annual salary of $78,312. The very next day he started collecting his pension (currently $67,500 a year) and was rehired as a civilian. He is now working as the police department’s assistant director of research and development with an annual salary of $104,232. His total taxpayer-supported income is now $171,000.”

  

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kfine
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66. "Really good point, and eye-opening. Thanks."
In response to Reply # 21


          


Ya I mentioned to Damali above that you guys have definitely helped shape the way I'm going to think about this issue now, and the story you tell here is a compelling counter-argument to the way police advocates complain about funding.

Among all the other problems, the idea that there's rampant mismanagement of funds is inexcusable. If a PD can't even bother to subtract pension income from salary income for retired officers brought back in on the admin side, perhaps financial audits need to be throwm in there too with all the other reforms being suggested. Wth.

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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31. "This single tweet got me started down the "defund the police" rabbit hol..."
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

https://twitter.com/ElectRyanDorsey/status/1268868843021230086

the chart is eye popping.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Damali
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36. "You see it. excellent :)"
In response to Reply # 31


          

  

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kfine
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68. "Thanks for this. Wow."
In response to Reply # 31


          


I had no idea the difference was so extreme. And this is just Baltimore; in one of the articles Damali linked the budgets for bigger cities like LA and NY were in the billions.

I wonder how much of these allocations to PDs are going to operations vs pensions and other expenses??

Compelling data for sure. Touche lol

  

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micMajestic
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19. "I'm with it. I shouldn't have to explain to my son why he needs to be "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

scared of the people that I'm paying to protect him. That money needs to go somewhere that would be more beneficial to the community as a whole. Why continue to throw so much support into a system that does little for me?


We can lose a few of 'em, we got enough of 'em (c) Dilla

  

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Crash Bandacoot
Member since May 13th 2003
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22. "i've been in d.c. the past few days"
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Jun-05-20 05:52 PM by Crash Bandacoot

          

and this "protest" kinda looks like a joke. maybe i need to go at a different time,
just seemed watered down lame. tanks are on every other street and d.c. police
// special forces // federal police are riding around like they are in gangs. the
people down there are mostly spectators looking for a show, not as many blacks.
plus dc is heavily gentrified, makes me wonder. i like the 'black lives matter'
painting on the ground, was kinda surprised bowser did that.

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
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Fri Jun-05-20 06:16 PM

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24. "what does that have to do with the post?"
In response to Reply # 22


          

  

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Crash Bandacoot
Member since May 13th 2003
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25. "'defunding the police...'"
In response to Reply # 24
Fri Jun-05-20 06:41 PM by Crash Bandacoot

          

seems like a lame block party/something to do. they're even playing
R-E-S-P-E-C-T. i don't know. when you are in a war, there is no music
and singing. i don't know if i would take 'defunding the police'
seriously given that atmosphere in the nation's capital.

  

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CherNic
Member since Aug 18th 2005
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Fri Jun-05-20 06:40 PM

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26. "Since when is music for/inspired by protest not a thing?"
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

  

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Crash Bandacoot
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27. "we've been doing that for a while"
In response to Reply # 26


          

and here we are in 2020

  

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Damali
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28. "DC is one city. one. 1."
In response to Reply # 25


          

1 protest does not define or discredit the need to defund the police.

you're making no sense.

d

  

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makaveli
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47. "What kind of music would make this not lame to you?"
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

“So back we go to these questions — friendship, character… ethics.”

  

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Crash Bandacoot
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51. "fuck the police"
In response to Reply # 47
Sat Jun-06-20 10:06 PM by Crash Bandacoot

          

type of music. maybe they played that, i just didn't hear it.
'peaceful protests' = we're afraid, don't hurt us
no justice = no peace

  

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CherNic
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131. "lol that doesn't fucking matter"
In response to Reply # 51


  

          

  

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Mori
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49. "Agree!"
In response to Reply # 22


          

I don't know what is unsettling about white people screaming Black Lives Matter but not hiring black people, not advocating for policies that make blacks more equal.

Defunding the police will not help black people. Putting money in community resources is being done at the highest level in DC. Doesn't make it any easier to get a Federal job or a DC job.

I don't know what seems odd about the whole thing. But I will just sit on the sidelines until more information becomes available.

Rise & Shine
Thrive & Grind
Heart & Mind

  

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Crash Bandacoot
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52. "agreed"
In response to Reply # 49
Sat Jun-06-20 10:29 PM by Crash Bandacoot

          

but i think i already know what's going on, looks can be deceiving.
it's easier to get things done when you put out the fire.

>
>I don't know what seems odd about the whole thing. But I will
>just sit on the sidelines until more information becomes
>available.

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
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58. "RE: Agree!"
In response to Reply # 49


          


>Defunding the police will not help black people.

You have no way of knowing that. Defunding the police would not happen in a vacuum. The reallocated funds would go toward the very community resources that you mention below that have been severely underfunded in most major cities.

Putting money
>in community resources is being done at the highest level in
>DC. Doesn't make it any easier to get a Federal job or a DC
>job.

Therefore there are clearly other measures to put into place in conjunction with defunding the police. This does not negate it.

But I will
>just sit on the sidelines until more information becomes
>available.

Good idea. You don't know enough about it to critique it.

d

  

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Crash Bandacoot
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122. "i do like the idea of defunding"
In response to Reply # 22


          

and clearly it's not a complete defunding, obviously it's partial. it
shows you where people really stand on this issue.

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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29. "all 57 members of bpd emergency response team resign in show of support"
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Jun-05-20 07:49 PM by Reeq

  

          

(plot twist) for the 2 officers who were temporarily suspended for almost killing an elderly man.

https://twitter.com/WBFO/status/1268984006110064641

(they just resigned from the specific team. they dont have enough balls to take a real stand and give up their jobs.)

the rest of the nation watched the video in horror. police apparently saw it as a rallying cry.

those few bad apples starting to look like a whole orchard.

------

  

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Mynoriti
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30. "ah, that makes more sense. "
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

I was kinda surprised by the headline. They're still showing how incredibly shitty they are but the taking a stand without actually taking a stand makes far more sense.

>(they just resigned from the specific team. they dont have
>enough balls to take a real stand and give up their jobs.)

--------
http://ambitiondeficitdisorder.tumblr.com/

  

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Reeq
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32. "lindsey graham must be feeling that heat back home."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

its amazing what a surprisingly competitive senate race will do to you.

https://twitter.com/LindseyGrahamSC/status/1269060751207075844

------

  

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Mynoriti
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34. "not one non Lady G comment"
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

lol

--------
http://ambitiondeficitdisorder.tumblr.com/

  

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Reeq
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37. "lmao"
In response to Reply # 34


  

          

------

  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
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44. "lol"
In response to Reply # 34


  

          

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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ThaTruth
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Sat Jun-06-20 07:54 AM

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39. "I was actually talking to a conservative FB friend about this subject..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

and he suggested that the police unions are too powerful and that’s who protects the dirty cops.

I agree, if it was like a regular job and you fuck up you just go to HR and it’s a wrap but not with unions involved and I’m not necessarily “anti-union” but in this case...

  

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Somnus
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Sat Jun-06-20 10:40 AM

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41. "RE: I was actually talking to a conservative FB friend about this subjec..."
In response to Reply # 39


  

          

>and he suggested that the police unions are too powerful and
>that’s who protects the dirty cops.
>
>I agree, if it was like a regular job and you fuck up you just
>go to HR and it’s a wrap but not with unions involved and
>I’m not necessarily “anti-union” but in this case...

at this point law enforcement shouldn't be unionized at all.

________________________________________________

The ULTIMATE negation of everything.

The space between despair and orgasm is hard to fill ~ Maron

  

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SuiteLady
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Sat Jun-06-20 11:19 AM

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43. "I think getting rid of the police unions is a very good start."
In response to Reply # 39


  

          

♥ Inescapably Me ♥

"Love is never any better than the lover" Toni Morrison (The Bluest Eye)

  

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ThaTruth
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45. "I do to, but when you start talking about getting rid of unions in any....."
In response to Reply # 43
Sat Jun-06-20 04:28 PM by ThaTruth

          

industry it’s going to be a tough fight.

I think you’ve mentioned that you live in St Louis, the fact that in the city they have 2 separate unions, one for black officers and one for white officers even they both “officially” aren’t called that.

  

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Brew
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89. "Yea totally. I'm pro-union in general but agree in this case it may be ...."
In response to Reply # 45


          

... necessary. But as you say, it won't be easy and it's almost hypocritical of me/us to hold both beliefs.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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afrogirl_lost
Member since May 22nd 2012
2996 posts
Sun Jun-07-20 05:33 PM

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96. "Cops aren't workers and their "union" is a cover for"
In response to Reply # 45


          

criminal activity. What are you even talking about?

  

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ThaTruth
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Mon Jun-08-20 08:19 AM

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130. "RE: Cops aren't workers and their "union" is a cover for"
In response to Reply # 96


          

>criminal activity. What are you even talking about?

Your screen name is applicable.

  

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wiseguy
Member since Apr 21st 2007
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Mon Jun-08-20 04:15 PM

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167. "it's ABSOLUTELY the Police Unions...THAT is what needs reform"
In response to Reply # 39


  

          

  

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Oak27
Member since Apr 17th 2005
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Sat Jun-06-20 07:07 PM

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46. "MPLS Mayor doesn't want to defund police. Loses entire city."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

https://twitter.com/CTUL_TC/status/1269396638411481094

  

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ThaTruth
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48. "In his defense he’s in a tough position, those are his employees "
In response to Reply # 46


          

  

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Oak27
Member since Apr 17th 2005
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50. "Oh for sure, but why not just stay home and sit this one out"
In response to Reply # 48


  

          

That footage of him walking away defeated like that? Sheesh.

  

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ThaTruth
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53. "Can he do that?"
In response to Reply # 50


          

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Sat Jun-06-20 10:24 PM

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54. "also defunding the police is unpopular."
In response to Reply # 48


  

          

not just among the general public but among the democratic party itself.

its a complete political loser.

messaging has always been an achilles heel of the left and the left of the left (ie-radicals, activists,etc) have historically been particularly myopic with it.

if you wanna squander a lot of the public goodwill that has recently been gained for the black lives matter movement and the push to reform policing...and hand the gop a potent campaign tool...keep pushing that 'defund the police' message.

------

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
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Sun Jun-07-20 01:01 PM

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55. "its unpopular because its a NEW idea"
In response to Reply # 54
Sun Jun-07-20 01:05 PM by Damali

          

>if you wanna squander a lot of the public goodwill that has
>recently been gained for the black lives matter movement and
>the push to reform policing...and hand the gop a potent
>campaign tool...keep pushing that 'defund the police' message.

spoken like a coward LOL

"don't try to dismantle the system cuz it makes you look bad and nobody is gonna join you!!"

fuck outta here with that...

do you have any idea how unpopular giving Black people the right to vote was when the idea was first introduced? what about marriage equality? or interracial marriage? or abolishing the death penalty?

people like YOU are the barriers to change...those that lack the imagination and the fortitude to push for it REGARDLESS of public opionion. the general public doesn't ever want to change shit...especially when it benefits marginalized people.

you can critique the messaging all you want...anyone needing a perfect message to fight for Black lives ain't really giving a shit anyway.

d

  

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lightworks
Member since Feb 17th 2006
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Sun Jun-07-20 01:35 PM

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59. "Wow you’re going way too hard in the paint."
In response to Reply # 55


          

I know reeq doesn’t need me to defend him but this is a total “you catch more flies with honey than vinegar” situation and in trying to convince him that he is wrong you’re vinegaring the fuck out of it with your response being so...angry.

How do you expect to have a good exchange of ideas if you’re calling someone a coward simply because they don’t agree with your viewpoint?

You’re just gonna try to shame someone into seeing your side?

That’s fucked up.

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
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64. "there's no such thing. i'm angry as fuck about all of this."
In response to Reply # 59


          

>I know reeq doesn’t need me to defend him but this is a
>total “you catch more flies with honey than vinegar”
>situation and in trying to convince him that he is wrong
>you’re vinegaring the fuck out of it with your response
>being so...angry.

and there is NOTHING wrong with being angry...that's part of the fucking problem with people...its an emotion like any other.

what am i DOING with my anger? gee let's see:

killing people: no
educating people: yes
destroying property: no
destroying dumb ass logic: yes
giving money to police: no
giving money to grass roots activist orgs: yes

so fuck off w/complaints about me being angry. get your fragile ass out the paint then.

you don't like how i talk about this shit, then go read the words of folks who have a tone you like. i'm not a politician and don't need to win anyone over.

d

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Sun Jun-07-20 01:47 PM

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67. "youre being juvenile fam."
In response to Reply # 64


  

          

if everyone else can have a mature debate in here then you should be able to too.

we are all equally as passionate/mad but we can talk to each other without the hysterics.

------

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
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73. "i said what i said. read all my replies in this post."
In response to Reply # 67


          

i don't give a fuck if you think i'm juvenile or mature.

miss me with that.

d

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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75. "obkb."
In response to Reply # 73


  

          

------

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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62. "im sure all of that feels good to you but its not based on reality."
In response to Reply # 55


  

          

theres no true progress without policy (civil rights act, voting rights act, affirmative action, etc).

you seem to be under the impression that theres some mystical 'change' that takes place without gaining (then using) political power.

you need to get people on your side. then all of the people on your side need to win elections to empower politicians that push your preferred policies.

you dont do that by saying/doing shit that makes *your* heart flutter but only appeals to your bubble or narrow sliver of the base. you def dont do it with sloppy slogans that can easily be hijacked and misinterpreted (at best) or are just completely unpopular/divisive among the general public *and* the majority of your political tribe (at worst).

its the reason the 'progressive' left had a generational opportunity to cement itself firmly within the soul of democratic party politics...and instead ended up alienating at least 2/3 of the mainstream party, losing every major demographic but young people who barely vote, possibly getting less than 25% of dem convention delegates and a diminished role at the party platform table, and currently eating itself alive with in-fighting and dysfunction.

in a matter of 1 presidential cycle they actually *lost* power/influence. banging their heads against the same wall youre banging yours against.

if you think thats a successful path forward and wanna continue along it...then thats your choice.

but the way you think things work? they dont really work like that.

------

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
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76. "it's based very much in reality."
In response to Reply # 62


          

>theres no true progress without policy (civil rights act,
>voting rights act, affirmative action, etc).
>
>you seem to be under the impression that theres some mystical
>'change' that takes place without gaining (then using)
>political power.

political power can also be leveraged on a local level since police budgets and allocations are handled locally and not federally.

nothing i said dismisses the importance of political power. i disagree with your framing of it.

>you need to get people on your side. then all of the people
>on your side need to win elections to empower politicians that
>push your preferred policies.

of course. that often does not happen with broad public support though. There are many ways to get to that end.

>you dont do that by saying/doing shit that makes *your* heart
>flutter but only appeals to your bubble or narrow sliver of
>the base. you def dont do it with sloppy slogans that can
>easily be hijacked and misinterpreted (at best) or are just
>completely unpopular/divisive among the general public *and*
>the majority of your political tribe (at worst).

look, you are firmly rooted in a "this is how you do things". and that's why i'm saying that no, it doesn't have to always be that way.

I don't agree the slogan is sloppy. just because you say it is doesn't make it so. either way, folks wanna focus there instead of digging into the details...i find this type of approach to be lazy and cowardly, personally.


its the reason the 'progressive' left had a generational
>opportunity to cement itself firmly within the soul of
>democratic party politics...and instead ended up alienating at
>least 2/3 of the mainstream party, losing every major
>demographic but young people who barely vote, possibly getting
>less than 25% of dem convention delegates and a diminished
>role at the party platform table, and currently eating itself
>alive with in-fighting and dysfunction.
>
LOL that actually is NOT the reason why. but ok.

>in a matter of 1 presidential cycle they actually *lost*
>power/influence. banging their heads against the same wall
>youre banging yours against.

yeah, you've now lost me as it has become apparent that your political analysis isn't what you think it is.

>if you think thats a successful path forward and wanna
>continue along it...then thats your choice.

yup, it is.

>but the way you think things work? they dont really work like
>that.

i guess we'll see. in the meantime, #DefundThePolice

cheers luv

d

  

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Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
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Mon Jun-08-20 01:21 AM

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115. "its a very easy msg for the GOP to counter attack too"
In response to Reply # 54


  

          


they can point to the rise in assaults, homicide, rapes, etc


Do you realllly want to defund the police? *cue montage*

_______________________________________________
"Mindless populism embodied by Trump and Sanders are like a malignant wart on our body politic"

  

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FLUIDJ
Member since Sep 18th 2002
43174 posts
Sun Jun-07-20 01:04 PM

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56. "Terrible name for some decent ideas...."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


"Get ready....for your blessing....."
"Bury me by my Grand-Grand and when you can come follow me"

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
34861 posts
Sun Jun-07-20 01:06 PM

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57. "i don't even have words for how dumb that statement is."
In response to Reply # 56


          

smh


d

  

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FLUIDJ
Member since Sep 18th 2002
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Sun Jun-07-20 01:37 PM

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60. "Defund Police is a dumb catchphrase. It just is. "
In response to Reply # 57


  

          

Tell me how it isn't.
Does it accurately capture and disclose what the overall goals are?


"Get ready....for your blessing....."
"Bury me by my Grand-Grand and when you can come follow me"

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Sun Jun-07-20 01:45 PM

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65. "hes 100% right."
In response to Reply # 57


  

          

demilitarize police.

reform police.

police police.

a ton of more effective ways to approach it.

------

  

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FLUIDJ
Member since Sep 18th 2002
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70. "Wording/naming is EVERYTHING when it comes to getting support for a"
In response to Reply # 65


  

          

cause....

In majority of people's minds...Defund = eliminate = delete = remove = do away with, etc....
That's a HARD sell especially given that's not exactly what the goal even is.

Those terms you listed are much better


"Get ready....for your blessing....."
"Bury me by my Grand-Grand and when you can come follow me"

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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74. "of course."
In response to Reply # 70


  

          

and a ton of folks like you and me get that.

people on the left are stereotypically bad at messaging. thats become our brand for a reason. because we continue to do it (like right now).

and instead of taking constructive criticism (from people that wanna help us win) and improving upon that flaw...we get a whole bunch of righteous indignation and circular firesquading.

------

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
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Sun Jun-07-20 02:14 PM

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78. "y'all can debate and focus on the messaging. that's cool"
In response to Reply # 74


          

it doesn't matter to me at all. i personally find it dumb and distracting but hey, that's par for the course on okp LOL

the real conversations are already happening with grassroots organizers & community members and police departments and city government in LA and other cities

for some weird reason, they are listening and working without perfect messaging.

d

  

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ThaTruth
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90. "Bernie LOST. n/m"
In response to Reply # 78


          

  

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FLUIDJ
Member since Sep 18th 2002
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104. "You have a very dismissive relationship with OKPs. Nonetheless, your "
In response to Reply # 78


  

          

presence is appreciated....



"Get ready....for your blessing....."
"Bury me by my Grand-Grand and when you can come follow me"

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
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Mon Jun-08-20 12:27 AM

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107. "y'all earned it. "
In response to Reply # 104


          

>presence is appreciated....

thank you. i appreciate your dialogue, as well.

d

  

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micMajestic
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Mon Jun-08-20 07:18 AM

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125. "From what I'm seeing everything she is saying in #78 is true"
In response to Reply # 104


  

          

So I understand that stance completely in this instance.

The slogan is difficult for some to digest but all the people railing against it don't seem to have up to date information. She posted everything one might need to get started on the topic in the original post, and this post still went the way that it did. Why keep going back and forth with people that just want to argue? Y'all don't have time to read?

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/07/us/new-york-city-police-funding-social-services/index.html

  

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FLUIDJ
Member since Sep 18th 2002
43174 posts
Mon Jun-08-20 07:48 AM

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128. "Yep. It's sorted out....."
In response to Reply # 125


  

          


"Get ready....for your blessing....."
"Bury me by my Grand-Grand and when you can come follow me"

  

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makaveli
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Mon Jun-08-20 12:15 PM

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149. "Yep"
In response to Reply # 65


  

          

It’s like we are coming up with campaign slogans for the other side.

“So back we go to these questions — friendship, character… ethics.”

  

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wiseguy
Member since Apr 21st 2007
451 posts
Mon Jun-08-20 04:41 PM

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172. "POLICE THE POLICE!!! Simple, makes sense, no objections"
In response to Reply # 65


  

          

WHY THE FUCK CANT THEY DO THIS?!?!?!

Dem messaging is atrociously bad.

  

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kfine
Member since Jan 11th 2009
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Sun Jun-07-20 04:27 PM

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92. "Gotta say,I agree with you and Reeq on this.My big issue is the erasure."
In response to Reply # 56
Sun Jun-07-20 04:28 PM by kfine

          

of both the underlying policy demands (which Damali and other folks in this post are doing an *excellent* job unpacking, and are good ideas but perhaps not as scorched-earth as abolishing police) and the centering of black lives.


Sorry to rant, but I need to vent on this messaging issue right quick bc the mural thing in DC pissed me off.


Like, first of all, none of the most visible *black* political messaging has even alluded to abolishing police:

*not from Tamika Mallory: https://twitter.com/BET/status/1266757878762868737
*not from Killer Mike: https://twitter.com/QasimRashid/status/1266602023526506498
*Not from Kimberly Jones: https://twitter.com/KingJames/status/1269089796422463488
*Not from Al Sharpton: https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/04/politics/al-sharpton-geroge-floyd-march-on-washington/index.html
*Not from Darity, Moore, or Carnell, etc.

None. Rather, the consistent theme in the black political messaging has been unapologetic laser focus on Black American suffering, humanity, and rights, and immediate first steps to start resolving those issues. Which resonated strongly both domestically and around the globe.

But it's like the people that got chastised for hijacking the marches to destroy/burn down property switched to hijacking the messaging instead. And now, there's the protesters (who were *not* Black, if that matters to anyone else) painting "Defund The Police" over Mayor Bowser's (who *is* Black, if that matters to anyone else) Black Lives Matter/DC flag mural in front of the WH, which was already an unprecedented early gesture that *only* a black politician in solidarity would make:

https://twitter.com/CBCKatie/status/1269435697804574722
https://twitter.com/Terrence_STR/status/1269439717524869121

So in little more than a week, the police brutality Floyd and so many others have suffered and the resulting rallying cry **CENTERED IN BLACK HUMANITY AND RACIAL JUSTICE** has been colonized by a scorched-earth economic demand *completely sanitized* of the racial dimension that galvanized so much widespread support/sympathy in the first place. I mean:

https://twitter.com/SunriseMvmtDC/status/1269675205955325958 <--seriously?

And JUST WHEN Black America had *finally* accrued some unprecedented broad-based political support. The whole COUNTRY marching in solidarity (https://twitter.com/TomSugrue/status/1269383576245743618). The whole WORLD marching in solidarity (https://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=13386977&mesg_id=13386977). 45 overplaying his fascism so badly that even THE MILITARY voiced solidarity with the people (via the constitution, but still lol). Like, it might even be possible for Black Americans to get a damn reparations bill off this support, talk less of demanding the transformation of policing across america.

So fuck rebooting the narrative. Why? Like I could see if hashtag activism had a successful track record. But there's literally a graveyard of these slogans (# Abolish ICE! # GND! # M4A!) that have accomplished nothing other than lose elections and alienate the general electorate. A better strategy to get the most out of current support levels seems to be, yes, focus on the relevant policy demands - eg. stricter accountability, demilitarization, reducing and repurposing funds + better management and oversight of said funds, rigorous transformation of screening, recruitment, hiring, training, etc ALL THAT - but STILL CENTER THE MESSAGE IN BLACK HUMANITY because *only* when the most vulnerable/brutalized are ok can anyone say there was progress.

Build the necessary political support in communities, get those demands in front of city councils and other political bodies, and make them happen. In the current climate, who's voicing opposition to any of tht??? But branding the goals as Defund the Police/police abolition is problematic political messaging (at best) and inserts unnecessary debate and confusion (Abolish Police?) when there is finally *finally* majority-consensus (that Black Lives Matter). Talk about a momentum killer. The staunchest voices behind Defund the Police are definitely calling for eradicating/abolishing police, and good for them, but that *isn't* what people across the US and the world were marching for. Call it guilt, solidarity, sympathy, whatever... but people were marching for Black Lives. Period.

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
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Sun Jun-07-20 05:43 PM

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98. "i hear everything your saying...those critiques and concerns are valid"
In response to Reply # 92
Sun Jun-07-20 05:44 PM by Damali

          

i just don't agree that 'abolish the police' is scorched earth or doesn't center black lives when police brutality is exactly what folks are marching against...defunding and/or abolishing police could/would be a part of larger policy agenda depending on the city and how rotten its police force or policing policies are

i think all these conversations and nuance are important

local organizers all over america are doing a really good job in leveraging this moment...

i think its a little naive to think that all movements need to be aligned around one singular idea or catch phrase...this country is far too diverse than that

there is space for very specific and very broad agendas to operate concurrently...whether that's parallel or interesecting etc

again, i'm happy to see all of this energy..all of it. Change is ALWAYS messy and jagged. We have had this momentum for just over a week so its gonna take a bit of time for folks to coalesce around exactly what's needed in NYC vs. DC vs. LA vs ATL...

alotta folks have loud voices and the attention will shift from this voice to that voice...

all of that is better than silence.

d

  

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FLUIDJ
Member since Sep 18th 2002
43174 posts
Sun Jun-07-20 08:36 PM

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103. "Thank you for this thorough assessment. I often don't really have the ti..."
In response to Reply # 92


  

          

or energy to flesh out things here....so yes, I'm guilty of hot takes...but what you just types encompass pretty much everything that spun through my mind over the past 24hrs since this post was made.

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Mon Jun-08-20 12:55 PM

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151. "Remember how our early discussions about BLM were so focused on"
In response to Reply # 56


  

          

how it's a terrible name for a movement?

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
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Sun Jun-07-20 01:39 PM

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61. ""Reform" vs. "Defunding"/"abolish" in one handy chart:"
In response to Reply # 0


          

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/59ead8f9692ebee25b72f17f/t/5b65cd58758d46d34254f22c/1533398363539/CR_NoCops_reform_vs_abolition_CRside.pdf

d

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Sun Jun-07-20 01:50 PM

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69. "if youre explaining...youre losing."
In response to Reply # 61


  

          

if you gotta roll out graphics and flow charts to make sense and bring some sort of clarity to your 2 or 3 word slogan...its already a misfire.

------

  

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Bumaye
Member since Jul 28th 2005
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80. "Yeah, that’s a LOTTA explaining "
In response to Reply # 69


  

          

In a really small font. Slogans and branding really do matter, as you’ve noted above. Gotta get folks through the door. I’ll still probably save this for my students.

  

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lightworks
Member since Feb 17th 2006
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81. "Word."
In response to Reply # 69


          

  

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lightworks
Member since Feb 17th 2006
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91. "Just randomly came across this on Twitter:"
In response to Reply # 69


          

https://twitter.com/sashabeauloux/status/1269677622163800065?s=21

If she ain’t already an okayplayer she should be lmao

  

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Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
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112. "didn't see this reply before i made my own down below"
In response to Reply # 69


  

          

they're incorrectly assuming the average person/voter is gonna read all that shit




they are really bad at politics is what is clearly the case by now

_______________________________________________
"Mindless populism embodied by Trump and Sanders are like a malignant wart on our body politic"

  

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Brotha Sun
Member since Dec 31st 2009
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156. ""well intentioned" racists say the same thing about Black Lives Matter"
In response to Reply # 69


          

verbatim, even. Funny that.





Crying over some semantics cause it might scare whitey away. The cycle is sick.

"They used to call me Baby Luke....but now? The whole damn 2 Liiiive Crew."

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
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250. "tell it."
In response to Reply # 156


          

  

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Rjcc
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211. "which Ws has your approach notched since this post?"
In response to Reply # 69


          

what is your approach?

you don't seem to have one, or even the outline of one.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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spirit
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270. "All good public policy is complicated "
In response to Reply # 69


  

          

The complications come from covering all the variables. If you have a simple public policy, you probably haven’t thought of all the angles yet.

Peace,

Spirit (Alan)
http://wutangbook.com

  

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Damali
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299. "."
In response to Reply # 270


          

  

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FLUIDJ
Member since Sep 18th 2002
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71. "Thanks for the link....it helps at least present the goals...but it's no..."
In response to Reply # 61


  

          

the clearest infographic....



"Get ready....for your blessing....."
"Bury me by my Grand-Grand and when you can come follow me"

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
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77. "you're welcome and I'd rather focus on the goals."
In response to Reply # 71


          

so sorry the movement didnt yet hire the most banging ass graphic designer

we should probably just not push for change until that happens.

d

  

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FLUIDJ
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79. "By not clear, I mean it’s kinda confusing/not easy to follow. "
In response to Reply # 77


  

          

Stop being so angry at anyone that’s just trying to gain some knowledge and understanding. By default, you’re now the most knowledgeable source on this movement here on OKP. I trust what YOU have to say on the matter and any information that you can share and educate. I read your links and still had questions and some confusion.


"Get ready....for your blessing....."
"Bury me by my Grand-Grand and when you can come follow me"

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
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82. "and that's ok. there's other graphics out there. "
In response to Reply # 79
Sun Jun-07-20 02:45 PM by Damali

          

i read it and had no trouble following it.

this was just one example of a way to think about the various interventions and their potential outcomes etc.


>Stop being so angry at anyone that’s just trying to gain
>some knowledge and understanding.


First, don't tell me how to feel.

I am not the sole source of info on this. I simply made a post that introduced a new idea that others are working on. If someone wants to gain more knowledge or understanding about the it, google exists.


By default, you’re now the
>most knowledgeable source on this movement here on OKP.I
>trust what YOU have to say on the matter and any information
>that you can share and educate. I read your links and still
>had questions and some confusion.

You know what? This post has definitely shown me that and I definitely don't want to be that.

I don't want anyone to simply trust what I'm saying...i'm not a grassroots activitist. I started this post by sharing the words and articles by OTHER PEOPLE because I'M also just learning of this

I don't want to be put on some pedestal of knowledge...i'm no expert

I just know that the way we currently approach policing in this country is trash. it needs to be dismantled and rebuilt. there is no one that can argue that that isn't true. The law enforcement paradigm is literally steeped in white supremacy and racism.

Therefore any new ideas that are put forth to disrupt the evil we see right now, regardless of how clumsy or badly messaged, should be thoroughly researched, discussed and considered before dismissing them. That's my approach and doesn't have to be yours.

d

  

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FLUIDJ
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105. "Really?? After alladat posting ^^^ you gonna play the "Google It" card??"
In response to Reply # 82


  

          


"Get ready....for your blessing....."
"Bury me by my Grand-Grand and when you can come follow me"

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
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108. "i wrote alot more than that...see this is why i be dismissive"
In response to Reply # 105


          

cuz y'all stay on this dumb cherrypicking bs

fuck outta here.

d

  

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FLUIDJ
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124. "My bad. You right...i read it all... I get frustrated when trying to bui..."
In response to Reply # 108


  

          




"Get ready....for your blessing....."
"Bury me by my Grand-Grand and when you can come follow me"

  

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mashpg89
Member since Dec 08th 2004
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Sun Jun-07-20 02:57 PM

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85. "it's a conversation that needs to be had, but will fall on deaf ears her..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

The amount of money allocated to police departments instead of other social services where they're critically needed is staggering. Reforms and new training clearly doesn't work. Minneapolis invested millions and was one of the country's leaders in efforts to retrain the police to be less racist and focus on de escalation and it didn't work at all. So defund them, send police only when necessary, and send in other specialists who know how to treat people to deal with civil disputes.

As loud as these protestors are though, the country simply isn't progressive enough to support something like this. Besides the racist conservatives who preach the need for law and order to keep people in their place, most democrats are willing to listen to the complaints and MAYBE pass some legislation to address it but they're happy enough with how things are and don't want to change the system that benefits them. You see that here as well. The typical okayplayer is now a 40+ year old conservative Democrat who believes progressive ideas are idealistic and unattainable. Many of them view social protests as a responsibility of the younger citizens and are fine with keeping the system as is because they've already invested their life in it and have reached a stable economic position. So they'll laugh progressive candidates off and ask how they'll fund their projects while supporting deals written in a week that give over a trillion dollars to the largest corporations of the country.

If you want to raise support for ideas like this, sadly you're on the wrong forum. Fifteen years ago everybody would be down for it but not anymore. These ideas will need to continue to develop and gain support with the younger generations and hopefully in 10-15 years the country will be progressive enough to change the system that wants to keep the status quo. Either that or it will be too late and we'll be further down the path of white supremacy.

So I'm totally for defunding the police but it would be the start of tearing down the system. Good luck convincing those who are content with the system and aren't being oppressed by it. Hopefully it takes off in a few cities and people can see that there are viable alternatives to overfunded and militaristic police forces.

Something that is attainable now is the abolishment of Qualified Immunity, which protects cops nationwide and allows them to violate constitutional and civil rights without fear. Bills are being introduced and maybe that could get more traction on a site like this

www.boston.com/news/politics/2020/06/05/ayanna-pressley-qualified-immunity-bill/amp

  

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Damali
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99. "i didn't post this to raise support. I know this site LOL"
In response to Reply # 85


          

>The amount of money allocated to police departments instead
>of other social services where they're critically needed is
>staggering. Reforms and new training clearly doesn't work.
>Minneapolis invested millions and was one of the country's
>leaders in efforts to retrain the police to be less racist and
>focus on de escalation and it didn't work at all. So defund
>them, send police only when necessary, and send in other
>specialists who know how to treat people to deal with civil
>disputes.

Exactly...which is why that 8 can't wait crap is some bs

>As loud as these protestors are though, the country simply
>isn't progressive enough to support something like this.

i agree. you can't topple the giant at once...you focus in on the pressure points and find the weak spots and chip away at it. There will not be broad support for this anytime soon

but if folks find the sympathetic mayors and city councils that wanna try it, that will be something.

The typical okayplayer is now
>a 40+ year old conservative Democrat who believes progressive
>ideas are idealistic and unattainable. Many of them view
>social protests as a responsibility of the younger citizens
>and are fine with keeping the system as is because they've
>already invested their life in it and have reached a stable
>economic position. So they'll laugh progressive candidates off
>and ask how they'll fund their projects while supporting deals
>written in a week that give over a trillion dollars to the
>largest corporations of the country.

yerp.

>If you want to raise support for ideas like this, sadly you're
>on the wrong forum.

nah i posted this to spark conversation. that's it...and they've largely been good ones.
>
>So I'm totally for defunding the police but it would be the
>start of tearing down the system. Good luck convincing those
>who are content with the system and aren't being oppressed by
>it. Hopefully it takes off in a few cities and people can see
>that there are viable alternatives to overfunded and
>militaristic police forces.

exactly. those content with the system will get on board once they start seeing it crumble lol

>Something that is attainable now is the abolishment of
>Qualified Immunity, which protects cops nationwide and allows
>them to violate constitutional and civil rights without fear.
>Bills are being introduced and maybe that could get more
>traction on a site like this

yes, qualified immunity seems to be the domino that will fall first.

  

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Walleye
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93. "KARE: MLPS City Council Announces Intent to Disband Police"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Proud of this city. Taking this step to get rid of a dysfunctional, expensive, and dangerous part of city administration shows a willingness to be thoughtful and brave about public policy that has characterized other parts of city government for awhile now.

https://www.kare11.com/article/news/local/george-floyd/minneapolis-city-council-announces-plan-to-dismantle-police-department/89-a2260d74-4e21-4069-9b06-735aafba95cd

Minneapolis City Council announces intent to disband police department
"Our commitment is to end our city’s toxic relationship with the Minneapolis Police Department," City Council President Lisa Bender said at Sunday.

Author: Estefan Saucedo
Published: 4:51 PM CDT June 7, 2020
Updated: 4:56 PM CDT June 7, 2020
Facebook Twitter

MINNEAPOLIS — A veto-proof majority of Minneapolis City Council members announced during a rally at Powderhorn Sunday that they are planning to disband the police department.

City Council members said they will invest in community-led safety initiatives instead of the police department.

"Our commitment is to end our city’s toxic relationship with the Minneapolis Police Department, to end policing as we know it, and to re-create systems of public safety that actually keep us safe," Minneapolis City Council President Lisa Bender said at Sunday’s community meeting.

The council members who took part in the announcement are Cam Gordon, Steve Fletcher, Phillipe Cunningham, Jeremiah Ellison, Andrea Jenkins, Alondra Cano, Lisa Bender and Jeremy Schroeder.

The announcement comes after various entities such as the University of Minnesota, Minneapolis Public Schools, First Avenue, and others decided to end or limit their relationship with the police department.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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mashpg89
Member since Dec 08th 2004
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94. "Minneapolis to disband the MPD &amp; invest in community-led public safe..."
In response to Reply # 0
Sun Jun-07-20 05:07 PM by mashpg89

  

          

https://twitter.com/ACLUMN/status/1269738051498106880?s=20

They must have gone deeper than the slogan and seen some better infographics

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
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Mon Jun-08-20 01:28 AM

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117. "lol word"
In response to Reply # 94


          

  

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Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
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Mon Jun-08-20 09:02 AM

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137. "Yeah I'm sure police dept's around the country will soon follow suit"
In response to Reply # 94
Mon Jun-08-20 09:02 AM by Amritsar

  

          

given how popular this slogan is


the american people will read the fine ass print underneath the slogan


They always do

_______________________________________________
"Mindless populism embodied by Trump and Sanders are like a malignant wart on our body politic"

  

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Brotha Sun
Member since Dec 31st 2009
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Mon Jun-08-20 02:21 PM

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157. "Im embarrassed for everyone in here who tried to shout damali down. "
In response to Reply # 94


          

Deeply embarrassed.

"They used to call me Baby Luke....but now? The whole damn 2 Liiiive Crew."

  

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FLUIDJ
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Mon Jun-08-20 02:27 PM

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161. "Why are you embarrassed? "
In response to Reply # 157


  

          

  

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Brotha Sun
Member since Dec 31st 2009
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165. "cause yall proven to be on the wrong side of history in less than 48 hou..."
In response to Reply # 161


          

"They used to call me Baby Luke....but now? The whole damn 2 Liiiive Crew."

  

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FLUIDJ
Member since Sep 18th 2002
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267. "Didn't realize it was a competition. Most folks are just trying to build..."
In response to Reply # 165


  

          

understand what's what.....

  

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afrogirl_lost
Member since May 22nd 2012
2996 posts
Sun Jun-07-20 05:30 PM

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95. "Ewwww...the lack of imagination is disappointing as usual"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Damali, we're going to defund and abolish these pigs. As someone doing this work, I see what's possible. Thanks for posting.

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
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100. "girl! basically LOL. you see it"
In response to Reply # 95
Sun Jun-07-20 05:54 PM by Damali

          

tell me more about the work you're doing...i'm so interested!!!

d

  

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afrogirl_lost
Member since May 22nd 2012
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97. "A Collective in Philly has created these clear demands"
In response to Reply # 0


          

that are actionable and abolitionist. They are gaining a lot of traction in the city since they were published on Thursday. We can really make this happen and we need for folks to stop saying what we can't do and get on board.

https://www.facebook.com/phillydemandsfreedom/photos/pcb.102319418184997/102318804851725/?type=3&theater

  

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Damali
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111. "excellent!! I love it!!"
In response to Reply # 97


          

this is the moment to seize on these ideas that folks like to call extreme and scorched earth

the fucking shit needs to burn.

d

  

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afrogirl_lost
Member since May 22nd 2012
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325. "I've been working with a group of radical abolitionists"
In response to Reply # 111


          

since 2014. The cops killed a young man named Brandon Tate Brown here in Philly and our work popped off from there. Currently, we've been in the streets and pushing the demands I posted in the community. Philly defunded the pigs by 19 million already, removed the Rizzo statue and a mural, and a bunch of other small things. The Mayor put out a list of reforms that are not enough to address police terrorism in our city so we're gonna work on that too. We also do a bit of mutual aid, jail/court support, and other community work.

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
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331. "this is so beautiful...at the same time, i hate that this burden is on '..."
In response to Reply # 325


          

i can only imagine the toll this takes on the mental health of all the activists on the ground...

how are you taking care of you?

most importantly, thank you thank you thank you

d

  

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handle
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101. ""Defund The Police" makes it seem like ALL funding would be removed"
In response to Reply # 0


          

And some right wing radio DJ gonna immediately make an NWA parody song called "Fund the police!"

------------


Gone: My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

  

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Bumaye
Member since Jul 28th 2005
793 posts
Sun Jun-07-20 07:31 PM

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102. "Hahaha. Don’t give them right wing clowns any ideas "
In response to Reply # 101


  

          

I can hear it in my head ...

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
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109. "the "right gaze" is almost worse than the "white gaze" LOL"
In response to Reply # 101


          

the fuck i care what the right wing says or does about it?

we already know they are corrupt as fuck and sucking trump's dick

y'all give them way too much of your concern.

d

  

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Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
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Mon Jun-08-20 01:17 AM

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113. "wouldn't be the first time the alt left has gave them new material "
In response to Reply # 101


  

          

that's actually one thing (regarding politics) that they excel at.

_______________________________________________
"Mindless populism embodied by Trump and Sanders are like a malignant wart on our body politic"

  

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handle
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356. "Colbert did a joke about it"
In response to Reply # 113


          

Using "Defund the Police" as the radio friendly title for the NWA song.

https://deadline.com/2020/06/stephen-colbert-late-show-monologue-defunding-the-police-1202955143/

------------


Gone: My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

  

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Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
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Mon Jun-08-20 12:23 AM

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106. "The left is so bad at this politics thing. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Talking specifically to this new alt left staring.

The branding and messaging is awful here. The problem is they’ll never be self aware Enough to ever realize it.


There’s Also this too: https://twitter.com/sashabeauloux/status/1269839624056209410?s=21

_______________________________________________
"Mindless populism embodied by Trump and Sanders are like a malignant wart on our body politic"

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
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Mon Jun-08-20 12:33 AM

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110. "so bad that Minneapolis is disbanding their police force."
In response to Reply # 106


          

but yea, keep focusing on the marketing.

d

  

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wiseguy
Member since Apr 21st 2007
451 posts
Mon Jun-08-20 05:10 PM

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181. "disbanding their police force and then what?"
In response to Reply # 110


  

          

that's the stupidest thing they could possibly do...

they just said fuck going at the Police Unions...just give up...

Criminals...the city is yours now...have fun.

smh

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
34861 posts
Mon Jun-08-20 09:26 PM

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239. "maybe go read the reporting on it and find out"
In response to Reply # 181


          

clearly your mindset isn't expansive enough to imagine a world without police.

thankfully, there's more courageous people out there who can.

d

  

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wiseguy
Member since Apr 21st 2007
451 posts
Mon Jun-08-20 11:00 PM

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252. "a Utopian world without crime?! Haha! In Wreck It Ralph, maybe..."
In response to Reply # 239


  

          

but in the real live world?

Come on, now...

How about you send this energy to the Police Unions that make sure these Cops see no charges and always keep a job?

Fuck the la-la land bullshit.....deal with REALITY.

As long as there is crime, there will always be a need for cops.

What you WANT is cops that don't abuse their authority.

Once they make it a point to give TRUE consequences to Cops that abuse their authority, then the problem will resolve itself.

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
34861 posts
Tue Jun-09-20 02:55 PM

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300. "i need to know if you're white or not."
In response to Reply # 252


          

cuz it would make sense that y'all mofos can't imagine not having cops around lol

d

  

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wiseguy
Member since Apr 21st 2007
451 posts
Tue Jun-09-20 03:21 PM

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309. "i hope you do know black folks don't like lawlessness either"
In response to Reply # 300


  

          

....don't even matter, but I'm black.

stay on topic.

black folks have a problem with CROOKED POLICE abusing their authority...not with what the Police are supposed to be about.

You a whole retard if you think crime is just gonna disappear because some idiots disbanded the police and replaced them with "community enforcement."

Fuck does that even mean?

You giving Larry and Granny a pen and a notepad and a gun?

HOA law enforcement.

lol....FOH!

You need cops like you need EMT, nurses, doctors, lawyers, firemen, etc.

This Utopia you have in your head don't exist.

Will NEVER EXIST on this level.

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
34861 posts
Tue Jun-09-20 03:29 PM

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310. "i reckon they like being murdered by police even less"
In response to Reply # 309


          



>black folks have a problem with CROOKED POLICE abusing their
>authority...not with what the Police are supposed to be
>about.

you know what? i got time today so imma clue you in on something:

this is not about individual police officers..its about the SYSTEM of policing and what interests it serves in this country, where it originated from (slave patrols), who it protects and who it doesn't protect.

if you can't think and discuss this issue from THAT deeper level, then you are waaaaayyyy out of your league in this discussion.

>You a whole retard if you think crime is just gonna disappear
>because some idiots disbanded the police and replaced them
>with "community enforcement."

show me where I said crime will disappear. I'll wait...

>You need cops

We don't need cops. You're just so conditioned to believe that you do that you're pea brain can't imagine anything else.

Like I said, others more courageous than you have got this, boo.

Don't be scared..you'll be ok.

d

  

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wiseguy
Member since Apr 21st 2007
451 posts
Tue Jun-09-20 08:56 PM

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317. "you're swinging at air like Cuba Gooding at this point...."
In response to Reply # 310


  

          

>this is not about individual police officers..

That's exactly what this is about.

Rogue INDIVIDUALS that sully what modern day policing is supposed to be.

The underlying mindset of inherent bias and white sheets in disguise.

They know who they are...

Any record of racist behavior while on duty, get em out.

Zero Tolerance.

Don't allow them to be able to get a job on the force ever again.

There needs to be actual consequences to bad actors in uniform.

That and the Police Unions are too powerful and need a overhaul.

Shit ain't Calculus.

Hold them accountable and treat them like criminals when they behave like criminals.

Once they see there are ACTUAL consequences to bad policing, and they can't hide behind that shield anymore, these occurrences will happen less and less.

>show me where I said crime will disappear. I'll wait...

"clearly your mindset isn't expansive enough to imagine a world without police." (c) YOU

Of course you're gonna say you never said crime would stop...but in the same breath, you say we don't need police/cops.

In a crime free, utopian society, sure...

As it stands now, crime ain't going nowhere, so who's gonna supervise the communities to keep it's citizen's safe?

If there's still crime, then WHO WILL DO THE OVERSIGHT/LAW ENFORCEMENT?

This is the part you still haven't answered.

What will they be called?

Huffle Puff?

Gryffindor?

What?

>We don't need cops. You're just so conditioned to believe that
>you do that you're pea brain can't imagine anything else.

Who's gonna protect the citizens outside of citizens protecting themselves?

You!?

Captain courageous. lol

You gonna be stopping drug deals and drunk drivers from killing people?

Robberies and shit?

Domestic violence and murders and alladat?

>Like I said, others more courageous than you have got this,
>boo.

Bwahaha! Okay, Cap.

I mean, you don't have to call them "cop" or "police" if that makes you feel better, but if there's a need for any form of oversight and/or law enforcement, call 'em what you wanna, but IT'S THE SAME THING.

You spent a whole lotta time trying (emphasis on trying) to explain what "Defund the Police" means, and it sounds to me like you want to abolish them with no plan other than arguing online...haha.

A whole lotta "repeal and replace" talk.....

We need to Defund whoever came up with that dumb ass slogan and reallocate it's messaging.

Keep hope alive, Cuba...

Robocop 'n dem ain't coming no time soon, boo....

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
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Wed Jun-10-20 09:54 AM

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328. "i don't need to convince you. that's fine w/me. "
In response to Reply # 317


          

convincing you doesn't make or break this movement

everything you typed is the same shit that's been tried and failed. take the time to engage with revolutionary Black voices..those that have been out on the streets and in the city council meetings and at community forums fighting since Ferguson (is that you? probably not, judging by the bland shit you wrote LOl)

let them educate you. (but you won't cuz you think you know everything). If you want an education, listen to two Black men from Oakland who have a podcast called Hella Black Podcast.

you don't have to agree with abolishment..that's fine. the important thing tho i that if you are Black, it will benefit you.

Defund the Police is already happening. all your snark can't and won't change that.

you get to sit back and watch

d

  

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PROMO
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Mon Jun-08-20 01:20 AM

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114. "?????"
In response to Reply # 106


  

          

STAND OUT HAND OUTS: http://basquiatwhenipaint.tumblr.com

TWEET ME: @PROMO206

  

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Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
30471 posts
Mon Jun-08-20 01:24 AM

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116. "Defund the Police will play as well as they thought dem-socialism would"
In response to Reply # 114


  

          



the branding is always shittty


Not only is it not popular. its easy for the GOP to rebut too.

_______________________________________________
"Mindless populism embodied by Trump and Sanders are like a malignant wart on our body politic"

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
34861 posts
Mon Jun-08-20 01:30 AM

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118. "omg you're absolutely right!"
In response to Reply # 116


          

  

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Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
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Mon Jun-08-20 07:58 AM

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129. "you must be so fun to work with"
In response to Reply # 118


  

          

can imagine the emails LOL

every reply in here is a battle with you

_______________________________________________
"Mindless populism embodied by Trump and Sanders are like a malignant wart on our body politic"

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
34861 posts
Mon Jun-08-20 09:26 PM

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240. "I actually am. "
In response to Reply # 129


          

>can imagine the emails LOL

nah I respect my coworkers. y'all aint shit tho so you get what you get.


>every reply in here is a battle with you

cuz fuck yall

d

  

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Mynoriti
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Mon Jun-08-20 02:52 AM

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120. "The worst. Might as well have gift wrapped this for Trump"
In response to Reply # 106


  

          

but here's a 2 page chart, or something.

--------
http://ambitiondeficitdisorder.tumblr.com/

  

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Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
30471 posts
Mon Jun-08-20 09:04 AM

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138. "After last night in Seattle too"
In response to Reply # 120


  

          

with the cops right there to defuse a possibly horrific situation.



We can also talk about the uptick in assault, robbery, homicide and oh yeah, rape.



this is just awful branding and optics all around.

_______________________________________________
"Mindless populism embodied by Trump and Sanders are like a malignant wart on our body politic"

  

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PROMO
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Mon Jun-08-20 10:46 AM

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"two things:"
Mon Jun-08-20 10:49 AM by PROMO

  

          

first, they didn't paint OVER BLM in DC.

they added Defund The Police to the roadway.

i LIVE in Seattle. i have HELLA friends who not only live in the neighborhoods where the protests are taking place but also friends and relatives attending the protests there.

the police aren't helping anything.

and if you're talking about them being there to diffuse the shooting that happened last night? well, if you've seen the video then you'd know that dude got his car past the barriers, was ready to run it through a crowd of people. that crowd was the one who stopped him. to protect themselves they tried to get this guy out of his car and detain him. he shot a black man in the arm, ran around the crowd with a handgun. then, when he realized his plan had went to shit (i guess), ran through the crowd and approached the line of officers who were just there to agitate and assault the protesters, PULLED his weapon out in front of those cops, and was arrested without issue (let a black guy pull a handgun out in front of those cops). he surrendered because he realized the crowd was about to mob him.

so, what exactly did the police defuse? they were literally standing there doing nothing and made no difference in this incident except to be there for this white shooter when he got scared and wanted to turn himself in.

now, say what you want about the messaging, but i just heard a few poll numbers get reported today that had biden ahead by double digits over trump AND for this not being the right messaging to get Trump outta here, there sure have been HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE turnouts at these protests ALL around the country so people ARE coming out for this messaging.

i get it, change is scary, but something gotta give. sorry, bruh.

STAND OUT HAND OUTS: http://basquiatwhenipaint.tumblr.com

TWEET ME: @PROMO206

  

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Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
30471 posts
Tue Jun-09-20 08:33 AM

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273. "oh you wanna talk semantics?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

>first, they didn't paint OVER BLM in DC.
>
>they added Defund The Police to the roadway.




"added" is one way of putting it. A bunch of white hoodie wearing activists put an equal sign next to the BLM sign.


because they can never just sit the fuck down. They're trying to make this movement about them and Bernie too. But i digress




>
>i LIVE in Seattle. i have HELLA friends who not only live in
>the neighborhoods where the protests are taking place but also
>friends and relatives attending the protests there.
>
>the police aren't helping anything.
>
>and if you're talking about them being there to diffuse the
>shooting that happened last night? well, if you've seen the
>video then you'd know that dude got his car past the barriers,
>was ready to run it through a crowd of people. that crowd was
>the one who stopped him. to protect themselves they tried to
>get this guy out of his car and detain him. he shot a black
>man in the arm, ran around the crowd with a handgun. then,
>when he realized his plan had went to shit (i guess), ran
>through the crowd and approached the line of officers who were
>just there to agitate and assault the protesters, PULLED his
>weapon out in front of those cops, and was arrested without
>issue (let a black guy pull a handgun out in front of those
>cops). he surrendered because he realized the crowd was about
>to mob him.

>
>so, what exactly did the police defuse? they were literally
>standing there doing nothing and made no difference in this
>incident except to be there for this white shooter when he got
>scared and wanted to turn himself in.




i watched the video. Yes all that happened. And what I'm saying is had there not been a line of police standing there who knows what would have happened





>
>now, say what you want about the messaging, but i just heard a
>few poll numbers get reported today that had biden ahead by
>double digits over trump AND for this not being the right
>messaging to get Trump outta here, there sure have been
>HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE turnouts at these protests ALL around
>the country so people ARE coming out for this messaging.
>
>i get it, change is scary, but something gotta give. sorry,
>bruh.
>




And right on cue, Biden dumped this shitty messaging Monday afternoon. He and his team know how unpopular this is and the political softball it would be sending to Trump and Pascale


This new left just sucks at politics


same kids who told me Dem Socialism would win over people. in fucking AMERICA?!


_______________________________________________
"Mindless populism embodied by Trump and Sanders are like a malignant wart on our body politic"

  

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PROMO
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285. "you scurred."
In response to Reply # 273


  

          

STAND OUT HAND OUTS: http://basquiatwhenipaint.tumblr.com

TWEET ME: @PROMO206

  

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Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
30471 posts
Wed Jun-10-20 07:40 AM

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320. "oh wait. you're a bernie guy aren't you"
In response to Reply # 285


  

          

carry on with this movement you created LOL

_______________________________________________
"Mindless populism embodied by Trump and Sanders are like a malignant wart on our body politic"

  

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PROMO
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Wed Jun-10-20 09:31 AM

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327. "cool deflection. "
In response to Reply # 320


  

          

you still scurred.

STAND OUT HAND OUTS: http://basquiatwhenipaint.tumblr.com

TWEET ME: @PROMO206

  

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Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
30471 posts
Fri Jun-12-20 07:39 AM

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351. "of? "
In response to Reply # 327


  

          

_______________________________________________
"Mindless populism embodied by Trump and Sanders are like a malignant wart on our body politic"

  

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wiseguy
Member since Apr 21st 2007
451 posts
Mon Jun-08-20 04:17 PM

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168. "SMH"
In response to Reply # 106


  

          

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12284 posts
Mon Jun-08-20 02:42 AM

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119. "Fucking millennials."
In response to Reply # 0


          


Never pass up an opportunity to turn their greatest political strengths into an empty slogan that elects fascists.

Now they're declaring victory over a vague promise to replace the Minneapolis PD with something new. What'll that be? We don't know yet. But one thing we can guarantee it'll include: a new (reformed) city police force, the same thing that would have happened regardless of the slogans along the way. But you wouldn't know it from the swarm of political ads writing themselves right now to scare suburban voters back into supporting "law and order" candidates. In a state that Trump lost by 1.5 points in 2016.

  

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CherNic
Member since Aug 18th 2005
37113 posts
Mon Jun-08-20 08:47 AM

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133. "'blame the millennials' here we go AGAIN"
In response to Reply # 119


  

          

if someone over 40 said it, it would fly? lmao you're an idiot

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12284 posts
Mon Jun-08-20 08:57 AM

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134. "People over 40 aren't driving this kind of dumb shit."
In response to Reply # 133


          


That's the point.

Politics by Instagram story is a recipe to turn important movements into niche fads.

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
11697 posts
Mon Jun-08-20 09:07 AM

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139. "this is an important difference between the right and the left."
In response to Reply # 134


  

          

the activists/radicals on the left are overwhelmingly young folks who push for things they dont even show up to vote for (especially in primaries where their candidates need them most). so they hang anchors around the neck of the party mainstream that they hardly help to lift up electorally.

bernie ran a campaign specifically targeted to that part of the base...and his run was virtually/functionally over on super tuesday. the very 1st day that multiple states voted.

the activists/radicals on the right are mostly social/cultural reactionary boomers who can take extreme positions and not suffer much electorally because they show up and vote like clockwork...presidential, midterms, primaries, generals. so the politicians they pressure to support these policies can always count on their backing once it comes time to defend the policies and get elected.

------

  

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CherNic
Member since Aug 18th 2005
37113 posts
Mon Jun-08-20 10:00 AM

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141. "you're being extremely dismissive and small minded"
In response to Reply # 134


  

          

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12284 posts
Mon Jun-08-20 10:08 AM

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142. "Yes I am. "
In response to Reply # 141


          


Keep an open mind, but not so open that your brain falls out.

  

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Brotha Sun
Member since Dec 31st 2009
6288 posts
Mon Jun-08-20 02:23 PM

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158. "You're white."
In response to Reply # 119


          

"They used to call me Baby Luke....but now? The whole damn 2 Liiiive Crew."

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
34861 posts
Mon Jun-08-20 09:34 PM

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241. "we need a roster of white okps so i can know who to fucking dismiss"
In response to Reply # 158


          

in any conversation about what's best for Black people.

d

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
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Mon Jun-08-20 09:35 PM

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242. "shut the fuck up, colonizer."
In response to Reply # 119


          

this ain't your convo.

d

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
15070 posts
Mon Jun-08-20 04:48 AM

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121. "It's a simple reason Trump tweets "Law and Order!" every hour on the dot"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

It's because the phrase "defund the police" scares the hell out of people. Hell, it scares me until I read a two page, 10pt font infographic on what it all means.

In people's minds, Defund the police=abolish law enforcement. And that means chaos and lack of security. And safety/security is too priority for most people

Trump and his folks have a raw nerve to touch on with a demographic that is ripe for the picking. And they are going to play it like a fiddle.

People talking about influencing the Minneapolis city council (and similar bodies) like it's a big win, not knowing they're setting themselves up to lose the bigger war.

_______________________________________
You ain't the only one whose got problems. You ain't the only one who knows pain. Get up off your ass and just solve them. You still got a chance to try to change, try the shit again.
Devin tha Dude

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Mon Jun-08-20 07:18 AM

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126. "repubs dont even have to attack/address the policies."
In response to Reply # 121


  

          

they just define the slogan and attack that because lefties failed at defining the slogan themselves.

just really undisciplined politics on our part.

------

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Mon Jun-08-20 08:35 AM

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132. "Reminds me of the Green New Deal, and Medicare For All."
In response to Reply # 126


          


Turn an important priority into a political liability for no reason other than to soothe the egos of activists who insist on seeing themselves as more revolutionary than the electoral public.

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Mon Jun-08-20 08:57 AM

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135. "i was gonna bring up the green new deal in my reply."
In response to Reply # 132


  

          

lefties did all that hootin and hollerin about how great/crucial the green new deal was. repubs said okay lets put it up for a vote exactly as you want it. and everybody scattered away from it like roaches when it occurred to them they would have to go out and defend it in an election year.

you figure getting blown out in a primary...where your candidate was a fundraising juggernaut and had a 4 year headstart on a national organizing base,,,against a re-tread from 2 previous failed runs who barely campaigned...would cause the left of the left to dramatically reimagine/revamp their approach to politics (assuming they wanna win)...but here we are.

------

  

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Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
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Mon Jun-08-20 09:01 AM

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136. "wow. Well said "
In response to Reply # 132


  

          

soothing their egos


dayummm

_______________________________________________
"Mindless populism embodied by Trump and Sanders are like a malignant wart on our body politic"

  

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Mynoriti
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Mon Jun-08-20 10:46 AM

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146. "Yup "
In response to Reply # 132


  

          

>
>Turn an important priority into a political liability for no
>reason other than to soothe the egos of activists who insist
>on seeing themselves as more revolutionary than the electoral
>public.
>

--------
http://ambitiondeficitdisorder.tumblr.com/

  

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Numba_33
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Tue Jun-09-20 01:17 PM

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294. "hol up"
In response to Reply # 132


  

          

The Green New Deal and Medicare For All were massive federal proposals that had to go through Congress and the White House for any changes to occur.

This Defund the Police movement is something that ultimately will get decided on a citywide and/or statewide level, which means local mayors, governors, city and state legislate members will make the call. Unless I'm mistaken, the federal government has no say in this at all since Congress nor the White House doesn't have any control on funding for local police departments.

I'm confused as to why this is getting lumped in with those prior two proposals.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Mon Jun-08-20 06:53 AM

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123. "The branding sucks "
In response to Reply # 0


          

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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micMajestic
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127. "https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/07/nyregion/deblasio-nypd-funding.html"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/07/nyregion/deblasio-nypd-funding.html

  

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Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
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Mon Jun-08-20 09:21 AM

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140. "THis will play as well as they thought Democratic Socialism would play"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

_______________________________________________
"Mindless populism embodied by Trump and Sanders are like a malignant wart on our body politic"

  

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Mynoriti
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Mon Jun-08-20 10:24 AM

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144. "this is making me appreciate that Black Lives Matter is perfect branding"
In response to Reply # 140


  

          

it's precise. it says exactly what it means, and even with that it took how many years for people to stop purposely misinterpreting it (many still do of course, but enough to make a dent)

this one. i'm hoping it fades away before Biden has to denounce it, then defend it, then try to explain it with some story about Corn Pop


--------
http://ambitiondeficitdisorder.tumblr.com/

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
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Mon Jun-08-20 10:20 AM

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143. "quite amazing how quickly this came up and turned into planned action"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

at least in one city.

it went from what is defund the police to an actual vote to do so in what a week?

i understand people saying its a dumb slogan but i wonder if anyone would be talking about it if the slogan was more friendly. black lives matter wasnt as clear as it could have been but it was effective. it got peoples attention. yes a lot of people got it twisted and complaint but it started the conversation.

so far defund the police seems to be effective. people are getting riled up but it is already leading to some proposed change. when ive tuned into cnn and msnbc and they ask people if they support defunding the police they respond with well reasoned explanations of what is wrong with the current system and some changes they think need to be seen without answering yes or no. no sound bite given to them.

big props to everyone working on this in any capacity.

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Mon Jun-08-20 10:40 AM

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145. "What's happening in Minneapolis is police reform."
In response to Reply # 143


          


And if it was called police reform it'd be something we could push in all jurisdictions, not just at the epicenter of the protest.

If we're talking about real, permanent change, it matters more how it plays on Fox than how it plays on CNN and MSNBC. If we were doing our job right, it would be hard work for Sean Hannity to convince his viewers to be afraid of police reform. Instead, we're doing his job for him.

  

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Walleye
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148. "You're in Minneapolis?"
In response to Reply # 145


          

I didn't realize. Tell us more about it.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
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Mon Jun-08-20 10:17 PM

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251. "first of all, who the fuck is 'we'?"
In response to Reply # 145


          

  

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lsymone
Member since Nov 03rd 2007
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Mon Jun-08-20 10:46 AM

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147. "This is the best time to drop this book in here"
In response to Reply # 0


          

https://www.amazon.com/Condemnation-Blackness-Making-Modern-America/dp/1541409698


please check out the 1 hour NPR: Up First Podcast w/ Khalil Gibran Muhammad called American Police

take a message

  

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Rjcc
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150. "the argument that "reform the police!" would be better"
In response to Reply # 0


          

pretty much falls flat on its face.

the people anyone is pretending that would appeal to

haven't gotten out in support of police reform when it's simply been called that.

and it's not the job of protesters in the street to write the legislation

the opposition to it isn't opposing it because of what you called it.

that's just another lie.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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Doc Catalyst
Member since Nov 24th 2008
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Mon Jun-08-20 01:27 PM

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152. "This is a good summary of why I'm conflicted on the wording"
In response to Reply # 150


  

          

Black Lives Matter is much better branding on the Slogan Clarity Scale but even now folks arguing in bad faith will still ask "Why should Black lives matter more than White lives?" in order to argue it down. I remember discussions online on whether it should be called "Black Lives Matter Too" or something similar post-Ferguson.

I also understand that expecting folks to read into this to know that we aren't throwing everything out the window regarding law enforcement is a risky play.

It could have a better clearer slogan but if the path for willful, meaningful reform isn't there to begin with I'm not sure what we call it matters though.



  

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Rjcc
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164. "there's nothing that someone can't pretend to not understand"
In response to Reply # 152


          

it seems to me like anything that keeps supporters energized will do the trick to some extent

but it's really about more than that.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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Mynoriti
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Mon Jun-08-20 05:07 PM

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180. "The "matter" makes the "too" redundant"
In response to Reply # 152


  

          

BLM is simple, precise and says exactly what it means. And yeah it got misinterpreted mostly by choice, but it was no fault of the wording.

Defund the Police might as well come with an asterisk if you're gonna need a bunch of charts and articles explaining what it actually means.

>I remember discussions
>online on whether it should be called "Black Lives Matter Too"

--------
http://ambitiondeficitdisorder.tumblr.com/

  

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Rjcc
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187. "being clear and concise has not taken any ammunition"
In response to Reply # 180


          

away from the opposition to it.

it really makes the point that there is no claim small enough or direct enough or even true enough to fit.

people inserting their own definition for defund is not the slogan's problem

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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Mynoriti
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194. "LOL"
In response to Reply # 187


  

          

>people inserting their own definition for defund is not the
>slogan's problem

--------
http://ambitiondeficitdisorder.tumblr.com/

  

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Rjcc
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205. "you want to use that logic go ahead"
In response to Reply # 194


          

you won't like where it goes. but it doesn't matter because you won't address it.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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Mynoriti
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207. ""it's not the slogan's problem""
In response to Reply # 205


  

          

the articles in the OP:
"explained"
"Here's what they mean"
"Here's what it actually means"

good luck

>you won't like where it goes. but it doesn't matter because
>you won't address it.

en ingles por favor?

--------
http://ambitiondeficitdisorder.tumblr.com/

  

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Rjcc
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208. "do you want to use that logic."
In response to Reply # 207


          

or will you run away


very simple questions.

cuz I think you'll run

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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Mynoriti
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Mon Jun-08-20 06:38 PM

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215. "that most people will think Defund means Defund and not Defund* ?"
In response to Reply # 208


  

          

yeah

--------
http://ambitiondeficitdisorder.tumblr.com/

  

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Rjcc
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217. "it's too extreme? you wouldn't want to shift the overton window"
In response to Reply # 215


          

that would be awful!

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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Mynoriti
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219. "buena suerte"
In response to Reply # 217


  

          

--------
http://ambitiondeficitdisorder.tumblr.com/

  

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Rjcc
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220. "told you"
In response to Reply # 219


          


www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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Mynoriti
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222. "don't cry"
In response to Reply # 220


  

          

--------
http://ambitiondeficitdisorder.tumblr.com/

  

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upUPNorth
Member since Oct 12th 2005
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Mon Jun-08-20 01:33 PM

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153. "Yeah, these complaints about a slogan read funny"
In response to Reply # 150


  

          

like if "We want Free" was the slogan for ending slavery, people would be questioning what it is they want for free exactly, and then complain that it wasn't obvious enough to them when they receive an explanation.

---------------------
Obviously White

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
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Mon Jun-08-20 01:58 PM

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155. "But at least We Want Free could have a consensus interpretation"
In response to Reply # 153


  

          

"You want free from what?"
"Slavery....dummy" lol

Search "Defund the police" and you get 100 different articles and 100000 tweets with 75 different takes on it. Some are like "we said what we said! Abolish the police system"
Others are like "well...not really abolish. More like cut funding a bit"
And others still are like, "we don't really mean defund. What we're really talking about is reform. Here is a two page infographic"




_______________________________________
You ain't the only one whose got problems. You ain't the only one who knows pain. Get up off your ass and just solve them. You still got a chance to try to change, try the shit again.
Devin tha Dude

  

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Rjcc
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163. "LOL. that's complete horseshit."
In response to Reply # 155


          

you can't just say "it would have consensus agreement" because that's impossible to know


and ABSOLUTELY NOTHING EVER has had consensus agreement

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
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Mon Jun-08-20 01:37 PM

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154. "It's not about getting support from the opposition"
In response to Reply # 150


  

          

It's about not giving your opposition the ammunition to easily shut down your movement.

It's about not hitching your wagon to a statement/position that appeals to so very few people that it becomes toxic. Especially at a time when you have the attention of many who in the past chose to be unaware of the issues.

Even the folks who are pushing #defundthepolice make a point to try to clarify or soften the position to make it more palatable. As was said earlier, if you are explaining you are losing.


_______________________________________
You ain't the only one whose got problems. You ain't the only one who knows pain. Get up off your ass and just solve them. You still got a chance to try to change, try the shit again.
Devin tha Dude

  

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Rjcc
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162. "which movement ever has existed where the opposition didn't have "
In response to Reply # 154


          

"ammunition"

tell me more about this event

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
34861 posts
Mon Jun-08-20 09:42 PM

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243. "giving a fuck about the opposition is your first problem."
In response to Reply # 154


          

This isn't a chess match or a marketing campaign..its our fucking lives

trying to outhink "the other side" allows them to control the narrative...it gives them more power than they deserve

y'all armchair strategists need to go sit down somewhere and let actual grassroots activists do what they do best...move the needle by leveraging mass protests to have their demands heard, considered, discussed and/or implemented

that is a happening...right now..with or without a pretty slogan.

y'all hate to see it LOL

d

  

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Brotha Sun
Member since Dec 31st 2009
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Mon Jun-08-20 02:24 PM

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159. "bingo. "
In response to Reply # 150


          

"They used to call me Baby Luke....but now? The whole damn 2 Liiiive Crew."

  

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Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
30471 posts
Tue Jun-09-20 08:35 AM

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274. "false dichotomy. Certainly there can be other ideas for a slogan"
In response to Reply # 150


  

          



_______________________________________________
"Mindless populism embodied by Trump and Sanders are like a malignant wart on our body politic"

  

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Rjcc
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311. "I don't think you know what the word dichotomy means"
In response to Reply # 274


          

or else you wouldn't have said that.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Mon Jun-08-20 02:25 PM

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160. "dems coulda spent the next few weeks pushing their police reform bill,"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

highlighting the viral videos of police beating the shit out of unarmed peaceful protestors, and attacking trump on his failure to bring the nation together (while doing more to drive us apart).

they could also be hammering the airwaves with the fact its just been announced that the recession started in feb before the pandemic hit and every recession over the last 40 years has begun under a republican president.
https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1270049564846952448
https://twitter.com/katzish/status/1270051861274525698

but instead now they have to play defense on "defund the police" and fucking kente cloth.

smh cmon yall.

------

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
4070 posts
Mon Jun-08-20 04:07 PM

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166. "lol it was like an SNL skit man"
In response to Reply # 160


          

and fucking kente cloth.
>
>smh cmon yall.


Who greenlights this shit? Who comes up with it?

  

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wiseguy
Member since Apr 21st 2007
451 posts
Mon Jun-08-20 04:20 PM

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169. "exactly *face palm*"
In response to Reply # 160


  

          

  

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wiseguy
Member since Apr 21st 2007
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Mon Jun-08-20 04:38 PM

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170. "terrible slogan"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Dems need to have messaging that is succinct and to the point that cannot be left up to interpretation aka hijacked.

"Make America Great Again" is simple and to the point.

"Defund the Police" can be interpreted as 'abolish the police.'

Which falls in line with Hair Hat's messaging of saying Liberals want anarchy.

So Minneapolis just gonna get rid of police? LMAO!

FOH!

Do better.

How about you start with just holding these mofos accountable and stop letting the Unions run y'all precincts.

Jokers out here trying to go from walking to warp speed in one week.

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Mon Jun-08-20 04:39 PM

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171. "kamala harris was not tryna hear it."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

https://twitter.com/flywithkamala/status/1270023992452268032

im glad she was the first to get the question on a network program instead of one of these marblemouth white dems who would have tried to delicately stumble and bumble through the perfectly ambiguous answer until they see polling.

but she shouldnt even have to be answering shit like that because of some dumb ass slogan that doesnt even mean what it means.

also i notice a lot of lefties who were previously calling her a cop are warming up to her as vp lately.

------

  

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Rjcc
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173. "if y'all have better ideas I'm open to them"
In response to Reply # 171


          

I don't know who told you that a perfect slogan is something that exists and/or is required to create change, but I'm interested in hearing one if you've got it and I'm going to need to see some actual impact.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Mon Jun-08-20 05:00 PM

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176. "start with a slogan that actually means what you want it to."
In response to Reply # 173


  

          

------

  

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Rjcc
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179. "you got one lay it on me."
In response to Reply # 176


          

I honestly don't give a fuck what it means.

I see no evidence that a slogan needs to mean anything in order to be effective, if you have some bring it and a slogan that works.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Mon Jun-08-20 05:22 PM

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185. "since everyone says police reform or reform policing"
In response to Reply # 179


  

          

when theyre asked to explain what defund the police actually means...either one of those is prolly a safe bet.

the word 'reform' is broad enough to allow for a lot of latitude, flexibility, and fluidity over time too. which is why people use the term for just about everything.

k.i.s.s.

------

  

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Rjcc
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188. "ok hit the streets and make reform policing pop"
In response to Reply # 185


          

because if you can't get people to march on it then you can't get anything.

at which point you've achieved less than the slogan you're deriding.

lmk how it works

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Mon Jun-08-20 05:47 PM

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192. "its working for criminal justice reform."
In response to Reply # 188


  

          

dont see why this would be any different.

------

  

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Rjcc
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200. "which slogan is that one? "
In response to Reply # 192


          


www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Mon Jun-08-20 06:32 PM

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210. "criminal justice reform."
In response to Reply # 200


  

          

------

  

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Rjcc
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213. "LOL"
In response to Reply # 210


          

ok so we're just going to lie now.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Mon Jun-08-20 06:40 PM

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216. "people dont protest for criminal justice reform?"
In response to Reply # 213


  

          

------

  

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Rjcc
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218. "people have been pushing for criminal justice reform for...centuries"
In response to Reply # 216


          

trying to boil it down as one protest is silly

promoting it as an example of effective protest is asinine

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Mon Jun-08-20 07:08 PM

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225. "youre just winging it at this point."
In response to Reply # 218


  

          

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Rjcc
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Mon Jun-08-20 07:23 PM

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229. "winging what? you don't want to bring your better solution"
In response to Reply # 225


          

which is the only thing I've asked for

so you gotta talk around all these examples that don't fit

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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Rjcc
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Mon Jun-08-20 05:25 PM

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189. "also, "everyone says" reform policing is not accurate"
In response to Reply # 185


          

but imo, anything you can get people behind is good, so if your slogan is effective that way then I got no qualms

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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wiseguy
Member since Apr 21st 2007
451 posts
Mon Jun-08-20 04:51 PM

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175. ""take some excess funds from police and reallocate""
In response to Reply # 171


  

          

naw...lets make it sound more teethy....

DEFUND THE POLICE!

lol...smh

Hair Hat and his crew gonna have a field day with this....

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Mon Jun-08-20 05:02 PM

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178. "i think it might actually fizzle quickly but only because "
In response to Reply # 175


  

          

most dems/liberals are on top of it early and diffusing the usage of the phrase.

it took them like a year plus just to address 'open borders'.

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rob
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Mon Jun-08-20 05:22 PM

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186. "Meanwhile "the press is the enemy of the people" is just fine"
In response to Reply # 178


  

          

Nuanced policy proposals aren't going to swing voters who don't want to be swung.

The Democrats don't have a platform problem, they have a motivating voters to vote problem.

(I straight up forgot Tim Kaine existed).

Speak boldly. Get these people who have given up on the system a reason to vote.

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Mon Jun-08-20 05:55 PM

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196. "bernie tried this. how did that go?"
In response to Reply # 186


  

          

>Speak boldly. Get these people who have given up on the system
>a reason to vote.

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rob
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Mon Jun-08-20 06:06 PM

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198. "Pretty damn well. One dude in his 70s doesn’t make it a bad idea"
In response to Reply # 196


  

          

Senate Republicans have guaranteed close loses are disasters and even moderate wins are just placeholders until disasters. I’m voting for Biden and all but defund the shit out of the police and put that money where it’s potentially going to do some good..

  

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