>100%. This definitely makes sense, and I think it's closer to
>where I thought the consensus was surrounding this issue...
>demilitarization, repurposing funds, narrowing scope of
>mission/operations/responsibility, etc. But after reading the
>articles you linked it's clear the phrase is anchored in
>eradicating/abolishing police altogether, which is a much more
>extreme measure.

In some places, that measure should also be considered. its only being called "extreme" because its a new idea that sounds impossible. so much of what we currently accept as normal was considered 'extreme' at some point (blacks & whites marrying, blacks voting, gays marrying, abolishing the death penalty)...so we gotta be careful with that language.


And what I worry is that Defund the Police
>would simply become the next hashtag activism fad (eg. #
>Abolish ICE, # GND) that kind of... rushes to package folks'
>dissatisfaction into a neat 2-3 word slogan but drowns out the
>specifics that could translate to actual change. The slogans
>dont have the best track record so far :(

again, its a new concept and its been quite effective at getting a "foot in the door" so to speak...the messaging will evolve as conversations and details evolve and that's ok...getting hung up on the message is the opposite of what's needed right now....but again, good old America stay focused on the wrong shit lol (not you, just speaking generally)


>
>I understand where you're coming from. And it's difficult to
>translate experiences with law enforcement in other parts of
>the world sometimes because of the US history/conditions
>you're talking about. This is a bias I can admit to,
>personally, because I've been lucky to witness - again,
>outside the US - extremely humane policing on more than one
>occasion involving members of my own family. In one fateful
>incident, humane policing even saved my family member's life
>(a black adult male with special needs, no less). I'm talking
>about a level of sensitivity, protection, care, and respect
>for privacy that brought us to our knees in tears. All I could
>think after these interactions occured was how grateful I was
>for the efforts made by my city to hire only the best people
>to staff that force and train them exceptionally, and I would
>rank those police interactions as high if not higher than
>interactions we'd had with some doctors and teachers. So while
>I'm not so naive to think those experiences automatically
>translate to every officer, police force, jurisdiction or
>could even be possible in the US

It is possible. You just very beautifully described exactly what the eventual outcome of defunding and/or abolishing the way we approach policing in the US could look like...well done!


... I feel like it's because
>I've experienced how good public safety *can be* that I end up
>concluding the neccesary transformations probably require more
>resources, not less.

more resources in the right places though...not on military grade weaponry etc...public safety initiatives do not have to center the police force. police should not be the go to for every situation (mental health challenges, school situations, petty thefts etc)


>THAT SAID, I did admit I'm not super knowledgeable in this
>area and I have to thank you, Buddy, and allStah for
>educating/reminding me of some key points I hadn't put into
>context. I think where I'm leaning now is I still agree
>demilitarization is long overdue, as well as stricter
>accountability and oversight... but with the current funding
>levels most PDs receive (I think one of the articles linked
>mentioned PDs receive ~50% of General Funds, on average) they
>could probably withstand significant budget cuts and still
>have more than enough money to repurpose to better screening,
>training, and other measures. allStahs point about the
>pensions and redundant income streams is particularly
>concerning, as I'm sure that sort of thing is rampant. PDs
>can't complain about funding if their mismanagement is that
>blatant.

you're welcome..this is all new to me as well and i'm constantly learning more and more.

>I still think the Defund slogan is problematic messaging, tho.
>Bc even if many intend for it to mean reducing or repurposing
>funding, a staunch contingent also mean abolishing police
>altogether.. and I'd hate to see the unprecedented support for
>reform right now wasted because the hashtag fell on deaf ears,
>as others have.

again, its gone beyond a hashtag already. The Minneapolis school district has cancelled its contract with the MPD. LAPD has committed to reallocating up to $150mil from the police force to other community initiatives. its happening..its starting. the messaging will evolve.

every community that does this will do it in a different way, which is how it should be. defund or abolish should be done on a city by city basis depending on the what the needs/challenges of that locality are.

>>yes they're related but not identical...the important thing
>is
>>that the ideas are even being seriously
>discussed/considered.
>>
>
>On this, we definitely agree 1000%
>

Cheers, mate

d