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Subject: "Monster' Ball" This topic is locked.
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L_O_Quent
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Sat Mar-30-02 04:51 AM

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"Monster' Ball"


  

          

saw it last nite in the world's smallest theater (99th & Broadway). but once my legs fell asleep I was able to ignore the uncomfort and get mesmerized by the movie

- loved the plot

- Pity *gasp* wasn't bad

- Halle ripped the fuck out of her part, the Oscar was well deserved

- the way they wouldn't show you important parts and leaving you guessing was sick

- the little boy ripped his part

- I felt Mos did an extremely good job for the part that he had

- actually all actors involved did quite well

- I like the little hints - chocolate ice cream with the plastic spoon, painting the room white etc...

- the humor was ridic and placed perfectly

- I was suprised

- the father situation was ill as fuck



bad parts

watching someone put their hands on my wife


The offspring :-D

PSN & XBL: LOQuent

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
there are other threads on this but
Mar 30th 2002
1
first of all
Mar 30th 2002
2
RE: first of all
Mar 30th 2002
4
      that was the purpose
Apr 01st 2002
19
ummm...
Mar 30th 2002
3
comments, janey?
Mar 30th 2002
5
Are you saying
Mar 31st 2002
7
did u read me sayin any of those things???...
Mar 31st 2002
11
      no, but I read a sarcastic
Apr 01st 2002
28
           RE: no, but I read a sarcastic
Apr 02nd 2002
55
                RE: no, but I read a sarcastic
Apr 04th 2002
61
                     Damn...I was gonna say...
Apr 04th 2002
62
apologies
Mar 31st 2002
8
      u speak in "musts" as if u know...
Mar 31st 2002
10
           So you disagree with her assessment?
Mar 31st 2002
15
           Yeah, well
Apr 01st 2002
18
I agree. I hated it.
Mar 30th 2002
6
I disagree with that too
Mar 31st 2002
9
Reverse racism
Mar 31st 2002
12
Even with her showing him "truth"
Mar 31st 2002
13
      damn?!
Mar 31st 2002
14
      RE: Even with her showing him "truth"
Apr 01st 2002
20
Great White Hope
Apr 01st 2002
17
thank you!!!!
Apr 01st 2002
16
Damn, how old are you?
Apr 01st 2002
21
my issue...
Apr 01st 2002
27
      huh?
Apr 01st 2002
29
           o shut UP
Apr 02nd 2002
56
                You can kiss my ass.
Apr 04th 2002
60
Ripped the fuck???
Apr 01st 2002
22
your wrong
Apr 01st 2002
23
garbage.
Apr 01st 2002
24
?
Apr 01st 2002
26
      exactly.
Apr 02nd 2002
31
           you can't exploit the willing
Apr 02nd 2002
34
                yes you can
Apr 02nd 2002
35
                     bull
Apr 02nd 2002
36
                     i make shit up?
Apr 02nd 2002
37
                     co-sign
Apr 02nd 2002
38
                          you jerks are fulla it
Apr 02nd 2002
40
                               jerks?
Apr 02nd 2002
42
                                    please...
Apr 02nd 2002
44
                                         lol
Apr 02nd 2002
46
                                         what kind of evidence
Apr 02nd 2002
47
                                              RE: what kind of evidence
Apr 02nd 2002
48
                                                   RE: what kind of evidence
Apr 02nd 2002
49
                                                        RE: what kind of evidence
Apr 02nd 2002
50
                                                             see right here:
Apr 02nd 2002
51
                                                                  I'm being realistic
Apr 02nd 2002
52
                                                                       "realistic"?
Apr 02nd 2002
53
                                                                            that is objectivly son
Apr 02nd 2002
54
                                         did it...
Apr 02nd 2002
58
                     re: sex scene
Apr 02nd 2002
41
                     it was dark
Apr 02nd 2002
43
                          did you notice
Apr 02nd 2002
45
                     I agree.
Apr 04th 2002
63
some problems:
Apr 01st 2002
25
He "touches her down there" too
Apr 02nd 2002
30
RE: why this film was successful
Apr 02nd 2002
32
      i don't care if it's successful
Apr 02nd 2002
33
           RE: i don't care if it's successful
Apr 02nd 2002
57
,,,okay....
Apr 02nd 2002
39
      RE: ,,,okay....
Apr 04th 2002
59

janey
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Sat Mar-30-02 07:50 AM

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1. "there are other threads on this but"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

In a word, I thought this was the most racist piece of crap I've ever seen in a movie theatre. It was insulting to my intelligence (among other things, the very idea that someone could go from being as racist as Thornton's character was to being a perfect inclusive angel overnight is ridiculous and pandering) and it made me very angry. Let me just point out to you that this film portrays a black woman who can't take care of herself or her son (she can't even keep him from walking in the street, which most parents are in fact able to do, no matter how incompetent otherwise). Her husband can't take care of her (in his own words, he is a "bad man"). She is conveniently widowed, childless, destitute, evicted and without a car all in the same week. The ONLY person who can help her out of this horror is the most racist white man you can imagine -- not only is he a horrible person who tells his son to his face that he hates him, not only is he a racist asshole, but he is also the killer of this woman's husband. What are we telling black women if we present them with films in which only white racists can help them?

I think this is a bad film and a very negative message.


Peace.

Interested in meditation? http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OkayDharma

May all beings be free from suffering.

May the merit of my meditation and any good acts I undertake be dedicated to the happiness and liberation of all beings.

~ ~ ~
All meetings end in separation
All acquisition ends in dispersion
All life ends in death
- The Buddha

|\_/|
='_'=

Every hundred years, all new people

  

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L_O_Quent
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Sat Mar-30-02 08:52 AM

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2. "first of all"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

he didn't kill her husband, the state did and he was doing his job.

remember the scene when he got mad at his son for messing up "his last walk." if your against the death penalty that's one thing but saying he killed him was far fetched.

second the change that he recieved was because he realized that he had become his father and when his son killed himself he started to open up. he quit the job and changed his life.

I wasn't offended by that movie at all and Halle's charater falling apart was understandable considering the circumstances. But she was emotional as opposed to his lack of emotion, I felt that it was showing two sides to a simular situations.

as far as the kid getting hit, you don't know what happened period.



The offspring :-D

PSN & XBL: LOQuent

  

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morpheme
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94867 posts
Sat Mar-30-02 05:56 PM

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4. "RE: first of all"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

>as far as the kid getting
>hit, you don't know what
>happened period.

that's how i felt...like
did he get hit???
what happen'd???
whassgoinonmayne




§•thealgiers•§
§•35•§


"u've got everything, except one thing...madness" anthony quinn/zorba the greek



_____________
Kamikaze Genes
____________♌♀
goddess; small g.

  

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L_O_Quent
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15335 posts
Mon Apr-01-02 11:27 AM

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19. "that was the purpose"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

leave something to the imagination, I liked that

it was like the end of the movie

The offspring :-D

PSN & XBL: LOQuent

  

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morpheme
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Sat Mar-30-02 05:53 PM

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3. "ummm..."
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

when did u become blk???

i am a blk woman
& know quite a number of them
& i didn't take this film as a pronouncement against nor for all blk women

i think thornton's race was more issue of this film as he was racist & race involved...berry's role was more of woman than blk owoman...thanks for decipherin between the issues of blk women& the rest of womenkind


§•thealgiers•§
§•35•§


"u've got everything, except one thing...madness" anthony quinn/zorba the greek



_____________
Kamikaze Genes
____________♌♀
goddess; small g.

  

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Aeon
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43867 posts
Sat Mar-30-02 06:13 PM

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5. "comments, janey?"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

________________________________________________




akin.

_

shakin your block with a 6 million dollar bop

_

www.davidevanmcdowell.com

  

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angel22
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38 posts
Sun Mar-31-02 12:01 AM

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7. "Are you saying"
In response to Reply # 3


          

that there AREN'T different issues that face different women when gender is compounded with race, class, sexuality, etc.? Do you subscribe to the "universal sisterhood" ideal given to us by White, middle-class feminists, who broke through the "shackles" of domesticity, but went on ahead and passed those shackles to US while they went to work in search of their piece of patriarchal pie?

  

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morpheme
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Sun Mar-31-02 05:07 PM

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11. "did u read me sayin any of those things???..."
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

i don't think so
u can slow ur "i've listen'd to a few lectures" rant/response thank u


§•thealgiers•§
§•35•§


"u've got everything, except one thing...madness" anthony quinn/zorba the greek



_____________
Kamikaze Genes
____________♌♀
goddess; small g.

  

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angel22
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38 posts
Mon Apr-01-02 07:42 PM

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28. "no, but I read a sarcastic"
In response to Reply # 11


          

"thanks for decipherin between the issues of blk women & the rest of womenkind" and I read between the lines.

you can slow your roll on your random, baseless assumptions and answer the question...or not. whatever floats your boat.

  

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morpheme
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Tue Apr-02-02 07:15 AM

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55. "RE: no, but I read a sarcastic"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

i don't care what u read
readin is after all - fundamental

>"thanks for decipherin between the issues
>of blk women & the
>rest of womenkind" and I
>read between the lines.
>
>you can slow your roll on
>your random, baseless assumptions and
>answer the question...or not.

when u & janey decide to read WHAT i say & not INTO what i say
holla, scholar
cuz not one thing i said on this post was random
baseless
nor assumptive
if u find it
POINT IT OUT





§•thealgiers•§
§•35•§


"u've got everything, except one thing...madness" anthony quinn/zorba the greek



_____________
Kamikaze Genes
____________♌♀
goddess; small g.

  

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pocahontas
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441 posts
Thu Apr-04-02 12:03 PM

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61. "RE: no, but I read a sarcastic"
In response to Reply # 55


          

**********************
One day....
I am going to grow wings
A chemical reaction
Hysterical and useless
Hysterical and...

"One of these days you're going to have to stop worrying about fucking it up."
--w.a.s.t.e.

"It is certain, in any case, that ignorance, allied with power, is the most ferocious enemy justice can have."
--James Baldwin

"So they told us that they weren't going to call us 'hos' and 'bitches' anymore, and that instead, they'd call us 'queens.' Well great! Now I'm a ho on a pedastal."
--Dr. Phyllis Jackson, Pomona College

"I won't be your monkey!!!"
--OKP honeychile

"I slang rocks--Palestinian style."
--the back of this one cat's The Coup
t-shirt







  

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pocahontas
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441 posts
Thu Apr-04-02 12:10 PM

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62. "Damn...I was gonna say..."
In response to Reply # 61


          

*pointing out baseless, random assumption* "u can slow ur "i've listen'd to a few lectures" rant/response thank u"

And to add to that, if you don't care what I read then why are you even engaged in this cyber-conversation?

Reading is FUNDAMENTAL...and first grader can write and read without deliberating on context and intent. I apologize if concept of subtext is beyond your understanding. I assumed we were all grown, thinking people here. But you know what happens when one assumes...

**********************
One day....
I am going to grow wings
A chemical reaction
Hysterical and useless
Hysterical and...

"One of these days you're going to have to stop worrying about fucking it up."
--w.a.s.t.e.

"It is certain, in any case, that ignorance, allied with power, is the most ferocious enemy justice can have."
--James Baldwin

"So they told us that they weren't going to call us 'hos' and 'bitches' anymore, and that instead, they'd call us 'queens.' Well great! Now I'm a ho on a pedastal."
--Dr. Phyllis Jackson, Pomona College

"I won't be your monkey!!!"
--OKP honeychile

"I slang rocks--Palestinian style."
--the back of this one cat's The Coup
t-shirt







  

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janey
Charter member
123120 posts
Sun Mar-31-02 07:44 AM

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8. "apologies"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

I didn't make myself clear.

As a woman and as a thinking person, I was completely offended by the film. I don't pretend to speak for black women, but I can only imagine that if, as a woman, I thought that the film as demeaning and degrading, it must be even more demeaning and degrading to watch if one is a black woman. If, as a thinking person, I found the story to be simplistic and pandering, then I can only imagine that as a thinking black person, it could only be more offensive.

I don't myself want to be "saved" by a man. I certainly don't want to be saved by a racist man. But that is just my opinion.


Peace.

Interested in meditation? http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OkayDharma

May all beings be free from suffering.

May the merit of my meditation and any good acts I undertake be dedicated to the happiness and liberation of all beings.

~ ~ ~
All meetings end in separation
All acquisition ends in dispersion
All life ends in death
- The Buddha

|\_/|
='_'=

Every hundred years, all new people

  

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morpheme
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94867 posts
Sun Mar-31-02 05:06 PM

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10. "u speak in "musts" as if u know..."
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

& u don't




§•thealgiers•§
§•35•§


"u've got everything, except one thing...madness" anthony quinn/zorba the greek



_____________
Kamikaze Genes
____________♌♀
goddess; small g.

  

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Pete
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6568 posts
Sun Mar-31-02 10:52 PM

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15. "So you disagree with her assessment?"
In response to Reply # 10


          

fag™ and faggot® are back!

  

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janey
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123120 posts
Mon Apr-01-02 06:12 AM

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18. "Yeah, well"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

Reasonable minds can of course differ on matters of opinion such as this. Ca va sans dire, I thought. But it's hard for me to figure out whether anyone who doesn't this this film is racist actually saw the same movie that I did.

Especially someone such as you who has consistently been so vocal about the black woman's experience as opposed to the experience of women qua women.


Peace.

Interested in meditation? http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OkayDharma

May all beings be free from suffering.

May the merit of my meditation and any good acts I undertake be dedicated to the happiness and liberation of all beings.

~ ~ ~
All meetings end in separation
All acquisition ends in dispersion
All life ends in death
- The Buddha

|\_/|
='_'=

Every hundred years, all new people

  

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angel22
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38 posts
Sat Mar-30-02 11:56 PM

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6. "I agree. I hated it."
In response to Reply # 1


          

"Make me feel good."
"Good, 'cause I need to be taken care of."

WTF?

I agree with bell hooks when she said that in that movie, the only person in that movie who was actualized was the heroic White male...and at the expense of an entire Black family unit (the wife hyper-sexualized, and oxymoronically, infantilized, the Black husband killed, the Black son killed...leaving the Venus hottentot mama alone, and desparate for some White dick/love, because for those "jezebels"...they are one in the same...)

It used the same, tired-ass Great White Hope formula. Yes, the Great White Hope formula, you may remember it from such classic films as "Finding Forrester," and "Dangerous Minds."






  

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L_O_Quent
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Sun Mar-31-02 04:13 PM

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9. "I disagree with that too"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

I felt that both of them saved each other. she showed him a truth that he wasn't familar with. if you know anything about dealing with loss the way she acted was very convincing.

don't get me wrong your entitled to your opinions but I just disagree.

that was an excellent movie.

I think as far as the outcry that I've heard from the black community as regards to this movie is part of the crabs in the barrel conditioning. that's just me though.

The offspring :-D

PSN & XBL: LOQuent

  

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FunkyRenegade
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Sun Mar-31-02 07:17 PM

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12. "Reverse racism"
In response to Reply # 9


          

"Forgive us our goofs!" - a Funkadelic


  

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angel22
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Sun Mar-31-02 07:50 PM

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13. "Even with her showing him "truth""
In response to Reply # 9


          

I still see her character as a means to his actualization...his humanization. Sorry, but she was not the heroic figure in the end...he was. She was the one who needed him for shelter...and to "make her feel good." Insofar as loss, of course I've suffered loss, and I find that grief doesn't always manifest itself in one, predictable way, which is the way that Halle used to manifest her "grief." It was the easiest route for her to take...I'm not impressed by that...sorry.

And for the crabs in a barrel bullshit, I cried right along with the entire audience when Halle got that awards...I am happy for her as an individual, but I can't refrain from calling like I see it in the big picture. I can clearly see how awarding that role, in a context where NO OTHER Black female gets awarded for shit (on the other hand, White women get awarded for playing queens and harlots, druggies and cancer victims, etc.), fit perfectly into the racist paradigm Hollywood has functioned so well with maintaining...I see how the movie functioned as many movies do, as a way of perpetuating myths and stereotypes that I see as detrimental to us as a group.

I guess that's just me.

  

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supablak
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7793 posts
Sun Mar-31-02 08:23 PM

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14. "damn?!"
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

and Denzel was a bad guy too?

Them Oscars...
wait a minit, I'm thinking.


Them 2 Nigras getting them Oscars for them two roles...
though I find that I likeded both filimzes is a lil' maybe slim shady,,,
but hey, isn't that where we live?
SlimShadyVille?
Shady Way?

I'on't know mayne...I'ont know?

S.Blak
When I go to the movies I usually see 2 or 3 of them mugz for the price of 1. Fuck hollywood. And Fuck the music industry too.
and Jimi Hendrix was not mixed!!! Fuck vh-1 for that full frontal lie.
(shutting up know)

keep: looking,searching,seeking,finding

  

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L_O_Quent
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Mon Apr-01-02 11:30 AM

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20. "RE: Even with her showing him "truth""
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

>I still see her character as
>a means to his actualization...his
>humanization. Sorry, but she
>was not the heroic figure
>in the end...he was.
>She was the one who
>needed him for shelter...and to
>"make her feel good."
> Insofar as loss, of
>course I've suffered loss, and
>I find that grief doesn't
>always manifest itself in one,
>predictable way, which is the
>way that Halle used to
>manifest her "grief." It
>was the easiest route for
>her to take...I'm not impressed
>by that...sorry.
>
>And for the crabs in a
>barrel bullshit, I cried right
>along with the entire audience
>when Halle got that awards...I
>am happy for her as
>an individual, but I can't
>refrain from calling like I
>see it in the big
>picture. I can clearly
>see how awarding that role,
>in a context where NO
>OTHER Black female gets awarded
>for shit (on the other
>hand, White women get awarded
>for playing queens and harlots,
>druggies and cancer victims, etc.),
>fit perfectly into the racist
>paradigm Hollywood has functioned so
>well with maintaining...I see how
>the movie functioned as many
>movies do, as a way
>of perpetuating myths and stereotypes
>that I see as detrimental
>to us as a group.
>
>
>I guess that's just me.


bullshit? if you don't like you don't like it but I didn't feel that the movie was disrespectful toward anyone.

The offspring :-D

PSN & XBL: LOQuent

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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Mon Apr-01-02 02:31 AM

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17. "Great White Hope"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

+ Tragic Mulatress.

i've said many times that maybe i would have felt that movie more had someone like Loretta Divine played Halle's part. it might have been easier for me to digest then, even though it would have still been poorly written and directed.

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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Mon Apr-01-02 02:28 AM

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16. "thank you!!!!"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

finally, another voice of reason!!!

that movie was the most racist, patronizing piece of nonsense i've seen since the mid-1950s.

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

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Pete
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6568 posts
Mon Apr-01-02 11:56 AM

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21. "Damn, how old are you?"
In response to Reply # 16


          

fag™ and faggot® are back!

  

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K_A_Wright
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16168 posts
Mon Apr-01-02 06:45 PM

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27. "my issue..."
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

with your comments & angel22's is that you act as though this can't possibly be anyones reality. It can -- regardless of how unbelievable you might think it to be.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
*Kristy*

Trying. Trying. Trying.

Ready. Ready. Ready.

k.

so much awesome in one place.

  

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angel22
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38 posts
Mon Apr-01-02 08:22 PM

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29. "huh?"
In response to Reply # 27


          

It doesn't matter whether or not that movie COULD be someone's reality. Shit, for all I know, Harry Potter could be someone's reality. I don't care. I'm not talking about the movie on a personal, individual level, but rather, I'm concerned with the way in which the movie functions within the context of the racist (and sexist) industry that churned it out...and within the context of the racist status quo that lapped it up like sugar water.

For instance, I'm sure there are some Black people out there who are just buffoons by nature, the kinds of people that'll do ANYTHING for a laugh...like there are some who are really gang members, sex machines, sex goddesses, or shady, evil cops...but when I start seeing a pattern of representation where it seems that movie after movie depicts Black people in one of three to five ways, shit gets problematic because I believe that representation is constituitive, meaning that the media has such a strong influence on what we as a society view as "reality," that such LIMITED representation of Black people in the mass media is actually detrimental to us as we try to live our daily lives. For Whites, who get the entire spectrum of representation on a daily basis, this is not as much of a concern. When I watch a movie, especially one that tries to deal with race, I think about more than whether or not I believe what I saw could have happened to someone somewhere at some time...which in the case of Monster's Ball, I really didn't. For me, that is not sufficient analysis, given the reality of the way the media affects the way people define race...as sad as that is.


  

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morpheme
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56. "o shut UP"
In response to Reply # 29


  

          


_____________
Kamikaze Genes
____________♌♀
goddess; small g.

  

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pocahontas
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Thu Apr-04-02 12:02 PM

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60. "You can kiss my ass."
In response to Reply # 56


          

Straight up.

**********************
One day....
I am going to grow wings
A chemical reaction
Hysterical and useless
Hysterical and...

"One of these days you're going to have to stop worrying about fucking it up."
--w.a.s.t.e.

"It is certain, in any case, that ignorance, allied with power, is the most ferocious enemy justice can have."
--James Baldwin

"So they told us that they weren't going to call us 'hos' and 'bitches' anymore, and that instead, they'd call us 'queens.' Well great! Now I'm a ho on a pedastal."
--Dr. Phyllis Jackson, Pomona College

"I won't be your monkey!!!"
--OKP honeychile

"I slang rocks--Palestinian style."
--the back of this one cat's The Coup
t-shirt







  

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johnnynoname
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22. "Ripped the fuck???"
In response to Reply # 0


          

NOT!

A+ for effort...Thandie Newton would've been better casting because she can actually act.

  

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L_O_Quent
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23. "your wrong"
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

plain and simple

The offspring :-D

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Binlahab
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24. "garbage."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

the movie was excellent.

i thought it was hyper believeable in that it had its own reality. when one is lookign @ a film, you ahve to look @ the reality the film is trying to set up, right? If your trying to relate it to your life, its automatically going to ing hollow because...its not you on screen. get it?

as such the whole point was these are two deeply flawed human bings who redeem each other, getting over and past all these little boxes ppl (society) tried to put them in, get it?

he got over his hang ups.
she got over hers.
the moral is we should get over ours.

judging by the replies to this post, that aint happening no time soon.

FUCK YOU, BITCH.


http://www.edmaupin.com/Somatic/nietzsche_wtp_bk_i.htm

http://www.iwan.com/elffers/low/start/index2.html

http://www.eyekandy.com/DSBfilms/dsbfilms.htm

'fear no man.' ~ God

on sabbatical.

does it really matter?

wonder what bin's doing?
http://i.imgur.com/phECCMp.jpg

  

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Brandard
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26. "?"
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

[]what were her hangups?

Giving You True Lesson Moderation Since'03
******

Want something archived? thats what an inbox is for

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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Tue Apr-02-02 01:28 AM

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31. "exactly."
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

apart from being poor, black and a bit dim-witted.

i'm sorry for bringing this up again, but i think that Halle's beauty really works against her in this role. the fact that she is so stunningly glamorous (even in her skanked-down portrayal) totally works against the idea that this is a film about how two totally unlikely people end up coming together due to the circumstances of their fucked-up lives.

we're supposed to be surprised and touched at how a white southern racist could end up falling for a negress, but how shocking is it really when the negress in question is Halle Berry, a black woman widely regarded as one of the most beautiful wiomen in the world of ANY race? a sista who appeals even to white dudes who don't usually like sistas at all?

like i said before, i would have been more comfortable had Halle's role been played by Lorretta Devine. or even Khandi Alexander or someone.

Halle is totally exploited in the role, cast as another tragic mulatress who has to be saved by a white man. i was particularly disturbed by the sex scene. i mean, for years i have wanted to see Ms. Berry naked, but i was really uncomfortable watching her body on display (with, of course, the same old double standard that covers up Billy Bob's nudity), knowing that for all the film's assertions that it is trying to say something about race in America, or about human beings in general, THIS scene was probably the reason the film got made.

_____________________

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Hot_Damali
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Tue Apr-02-02 04:01 AM

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34. "you can't exploit the willing"
In response to Reply # 31


          

Halle fought for that role. Even the director did not want to cast her cuz he felt she was "too pretty"..she argued that pretty women go thru hard times too..they get evicted from apartments, they experience personal tragedies...

and she had a good point. why stereotype and say so-called downtrodden people can only look a certain way?

fuck exploitation..hollywood doesn't GIVE people parts. Halle gets scripts, reads them, and chooses the ones she wants to tackle for her own reasons. Maybe she knew people like you would be all upset and dammit maybe that's exactly what she wanted.

More power to her.

d

"If you don't believe in miracles, you're not a realist" - Billy Wilder

I'm the artist formally known as Beck. I have a genius wig. When I put that wig on, then the true genius emerges. I don't have enough hair to be a genius. I think you have to have hair going everywhere." - Beck

They aren't ready for me. I'd give them too much "realness". I would have spent all 5 months in drag." - HotThyng76, on the Real World casting directors




Sat 12-2am WBAI 99.5FM in NY

Pandemonium Wreckordz New York
Be on the look out.

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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35. "yes you can"
In response to Reply # 34


  

          

"you can't exploit the willing"? that's bullshit.

all those women shaking it up half-nekked in rap videos ain't being exploited? of course they are! and most of them aren't even paid!

that girl in the R. Kelly video looked pretty willing to me... was SHE exploited?

pretty women DO go through hard times, but let's face it... the reason that film got made is because the woman in question was a much desired sex object. did you notice the very spare style in which the ENTIRE FILM is shot, EXCEPT for the sex scene. they probably spent more money on that scene than on the rest of the movie because they knew that was the movie's money shot.


_____________________

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Hot_Damali
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36. "bull"
In response to Reply # 35


          

>"you can't exploit the willing"? that's
>bullshit.
>
>all those women shaking it up
>half-nekked in rap videos ain't
>being exploited? of course they
>are! and most of them
>aren't even paid!

and they also fight to be there so no. that is not exploitation

>that girl in the R. Kelly
>video looked pretty willing to
>me... was SHE exploited?

she was a minor so that's different. I'm talking about consenting adults.

>pretty women DO go through hard
>times, but let's face it...
>the reason that film got
>made is because the woman
>in question was a much
>desired sex object.

bullshit. you don't even know what you're talking about and are assuming. you just make shit up to support your argument which is why i don't even like debating with you. so on that note, i'm out.


did you
>notice the very spare style
>in which the ENTIRE FILM
>is shot, EXCEPT for the
>sex scene. they probably spent
>more money on that scene
>than on the rest of
>the movie because they knew
>that was the movie's money
>shot.

right. ok. later for you.

d

"If you don't believe in miracles, you're not a realist" - Billy Wilder

I'm the artist formally known as Beck. I have a genius wig. When I put that wig on, then the true genius emerges. I don't have enough hair to be a genius. I think you have to have hair going everywhere." - Beck

They aren't ready for me. I'd give them too much "realness". I would have spent all 5 months in drag." - HotThyng76, on the Real World casting directors




Sat 12-2am WBAI 99.5FM in NY

Pandemonium Wreckordz New York
Be on the look out.

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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Tue Apr-02-02 04:47 AM

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37. "i make shit up?"
In response to Reply # 36


  

          

WHEN have i ever made shit up to support an argument?

you're straight trippin'

_____________________

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L_O_Quent
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38. "co-sign"
In response to Reply # 36


  

          

on everything Damali said.

The offspring :-D

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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Tue Apr-02-02 04:57 AM

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40. "you jerks are fulla it"
In response to Reply # 38


  

          

you have a hard time dealing with the fact that I didn't like the movie…. personally, I'm a bit puzzled by why y'all liked it so much, but I figure different strokes for different folks. I think you people are reading way more into the movie than was there, but that's okay… whatever turns you on.

people try to have something resembling an intelligent conversation about what they saw in the movie and you guys don't like what I say, so you start throwing hissy fits. that's so childish, people. and then you claim that I am making up evidence to support my argument that the film is offensive. I think you people are making up evidence to argue that it is worth a damn.

whatever…

_____________________

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L_O_Quent
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Tue Apr-02-02 05:05 AM

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42. "jerks?"
In response to Reply # 40


  

          

>you have a hard time dealing
>with the fact that I
>didn't like the movie…. personally,
>I'm a bit puzzled by
>why y'all liked it so
>much, but I figure different
>strokes for different folks. I
>think you people are reading
>way more into the movie
>than was there, but that's
>okay… whatever turns you on.

your entitled to feel whatever way you felt about the movie, that's the beauty of this world otherwise it would be boring... I also am puzzled by why you dislike it soo much and as far as your points they seem to sound like misdirected passion in my eyes.

>people try to have something resembling
>an intelligent conversation about what
>they saw in the movie
>and you guys don't like
>what I say, so you
>start throwing hissy fits. that's
>so childish, people. and then
>you claim that I am
>making up evidence to support
>my argument that the film
>is offensive. I think you
>people are making up evidence
>to argue that it is
>worth a damn.

you people?

actually I was agreeing with her responses to your statements.

please let me know of your evidence I'm all ears, okay eyes.

I still haven't seen a strong point on why people dislike this movie in my eyes it seemed that they were too offended by the the racism which was simply part of the story... please explain

btw while you say that "we" aren't letting you get your point across without disrespecting you you call us jerks.

think


The offspring :-D

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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Tue Apr-02-02 05:16 AM

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44. "please..."
In response to Reply # 42


  

          

don't lay that patronizing game on me.

>your entitled to feel whatever way
>you felt about the movie,
>that's the beauty of this
>world otherwise it would be
>boring... I also am puzzled
>by why you dislike it
>soo much and as far
>as your points they seem
>to sound like misdirected passion
>in my eyes.
>

not misdirected passion... one of the worst things about this movie is that it aroused NO passion in me. which i thought was odd, because even the worst movies make me feel SOMETHING... even if it's revulsion.

i'm just puzzled that people can be so... (i don't want to use the word "ignorant," because of its negative and judgmental connotations, but i can't think of another word) about history. this film copies down some of the classic white man/tragic mulatress stereotypes of many old Dorothy Dandridge films (which Halle is SO sad Dorothy had to endure).

but i ain't mad at nobody for liking it. after all, i love the film Belly though just about everybody in the world hates it, and even i have to admit that it is rife with incompetence. but it appeals to me on certain levels and you can't change that, so i won't tell you to hate Monsters Ball.

>>people try to have something resembling
>>an intelligent conversation about what
>>they saw in the movie
>>and you guys don't like
>>what I say, so you
>>start throwing hissy fits. that's
>>so childish, people. and then
>>you claim that I am
>>making up evidence to support
>>my argument that the film
>>is offensive. I think you
>>people are making up evidence
>>to argue that it is
>>worth a damn.
>
>you people?
>
>actually I was agreeing with her
>responses to your statements.
>

right. "you people". you and her. you agree with her, right?

"you people"

>please let me know of your
>evidence I'm all ears, okay
>eyes.
>

i thought i just did.

>I still haven't seen a strong
>point on why people dislike
>this movie in my eyes
>it seemed that they were
>too offended by the the
>racism which was simply part
>of the story... please
>explain
>

i don't think you're listening (reading)... i'd rather point you to angel22's or janey's posts, because i'll be the first to admit that my responses on this topic have not been my most coherent because i really didn't like this movie and can hardly even muster the energy to write about it coherently... but i still think i have some valid points in my loose critique if you care to look past your own love for the movie.

>btw while you say that "we"
>aren't letting you get your
>point across without disrespecting you
>you call us jerks.
>

yeah. i think Damali is a jerk to claim that i'm making stuff up to support my argument. and if you agree with her on that, i think you're a jerk, too.

disagree with me all you like, but please don't defame my character.

>think

YOU think. all i hear from YOU is passion.


_____________________

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L_O_Quent
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46. "lol"
In response to Reply # 44


  

          

good try.

like I said I still don't see evidence to support your supposed argument.

I'm waiting.

The offspring :-D

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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Tue Apr-02-02 05:30 AM

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47. "what kind of evidence"
In response to Reply # 46


  

          

do you want?

a Certificate of Sucktitude notarized by the Motion Pictures Association of America?

i told you what i didn't like, Tonto... take it or leave it.

like i said, it don't bother me whether or not you like the movie, but we can talk about the issues contained within it beyond a "this is such a real life situation way."

the film exists in a context. it exists within a tradition of dubious portrayals of black women (and men) in the motion pictures going back to Birth of a Nation. THAT is what i am interested in, not whether or not Halle would have fucked Billy Bob in real life.

maybe we're not interested in the same issue. if not, mayeb we should adjourn.

(i DO also have issues with the poor writing and directing, come to think of it... but that's not what i'm talking about right now)

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L_O_Quent
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Tue Apr-02-02 05:37 AM

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48. "RE: what kind of evidence"
In response to Reply # 47


  

          

>do you want?
>
>a Certificate of Sucktitude notarized by
>the Motion Pictures Association of
>America?
>
>i told you what i didn't
>like, Tonto... take it or
>leave it.
>
>like i said, it don't bother
>me whether or not you
>like the movie, but we
>can talk about the issues
>contained within it beyond a
>"this is such a real
>life situation way."
>
>the film exists in a context.
>it exists within a tradition
>of dubious portrayals of black
>women (and men) in the
>motion pictures going back to
>Birth of a Nation. THAT
>is what i am interested
>in, not whether or not
>Halle would have fucked Billy
>Bob in real life.

I really don't see how she was portrayed ignorantly, I have explained and reexplain this point to various pple on this post.

>maybe we're not interested in the
>same issue. if not, mayeb
>we should adjourn.
>
>(i DO also have issues with
>the poor writing and directing,
>come to think of it...
>but that's not what i'm
>talking about right now)

poor writing? don't see it




The offspring :-D

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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Tue Apr-02-02 05:41 AM

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49. "RE: what kind of evidence"
In response to Reply # 48


  

          


>I really don't see how she
>was portrayed ignorantly, I have
>explained and reexplain this point
>to various pple on this
>post.
>

go watch some Dorothy Dandridge films and come back and tell me that.

>>(i DO also have issues with
>>the poor writing and directing,
>>come to think of it...
>>but that's not what i'm
>>talking about right now)
>
>poor writing? don't see it
>


the dialogue was pretty poor. as was the pacing of the plot (MY OPINION). do you need me to expand upon that?

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L_O_Quent
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Tue Apr-02-02 05:55 AM

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50. "RE: what kind of evidence"
In response to Reply # 49


  

          

>
>>I really don't see how she
>>was portrayed ignorantly, I have
>>explained and reexplain this point
>>to various pple on this
>>post.
>>
>
>go watch some Dorothy Dandridge films
>and come back and tell
>me that.

seen some and I don't see the connection. it seems that your failing to realize that almost any human being would break under her conditions and she needed some type of help. everyone does from time to time.


>
>>>(i DO also have issues with
>>>the poor writing and directing,
>>>come to think of it...
>>>but that's not what i'm
>>>talking about right now)
>>
>>poor writing? don't see it
>>
>
>
>the dialogue was pretty poor. as
>was the pacing of the
>plot (MY OPINION). do you
>need me to expand upon
>that?

I felt that the dialoge was great expecially since it was about uneducated Georgians, the ill thing about it was that it was simply topical to the many undercurrents the movie had.

that was refreshing IMHO

Bombastic is my GOD

The offspring :-D

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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Tue Apr-02-02 06:02 AM

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51. "see right here:"
In response to Reply # 50


  

          


>>go watch some Dorothy Dandridge films
>>and come back and tell
>>me that.
>
>seen some and I don't see
>the connection. it seems
>that your failing to realize
>that almost any human being
>would break under her conditions
>and she needed some type
>of help. everyone does
>from time to time.
>
>
>>

notice how you keep talking about the film from an internal point of view? i think you're the one being passionate here, not i.

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L_O_Quent
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52. "I'm being realistic"
In response to Reply # 51


  

          


The offspring :-D

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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Tue Apr-02-02 06:09 AM

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53. ""realistic"?"
In response to Reply # 52


  

          

it ain't "real," kid... it's a movie.

stop talking about the characters like they're your friends or something, and speak objectively.

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L_O_Quent
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Tue Apr-02-02 06:13 AM

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54. "that is objectivly son"
In response to Reply # 53


  

          

to say that the charaters are believable is objectivity.

talk as if they were my friends... come on


The offspring :-D

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Allah
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58. "did it..."
In response to Reply # 44


  

          


make you feel gooouuuunnnggghhhhhd?

DRE Allah allah@metalab.unc.edu
http://metalab.unc.edu/nge/physical
Physical Science Productions

_______________________
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_______________________
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Brandard
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41. "re: sex scene"
In response to Reply # 35


  

          

[]the lighting in that scene was bizarre

like they went out of their way to make halle look a little darker

maybe its just my imagination, but i swear that is how it came off

Giving You True Lesson Moderation Since'03
******

Want something archived? thats what an inbox is for

  

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L_O_Quent
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43. "it was dark"
In response to Reply # 41


  

          

it wasn't love @ that point and they were using each other for primal comfort.

The offspring :-D

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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45. "did you notice"
In response to Reply # 43


  

          

how pretentiously lighted and edited that scene was, though?

_____________________

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The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

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pocahontas
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Thu Apr-04-02 12:13 PM

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63. "I agree."
In response to Reply # 35


          

The way you know oppression is working is when you got folks oppressing themselves.

**********************
One day....
I am going to grow wings
A chemical reaction
Hysterical and useless
Hysterical and...

"One of these days you're going to have to stop worrying about fucking it up."
--w.a.s.t.e.

"It is certain, in any case, that ignorance, allied with power, is the most ferocious enemy justice can have."
--James Baldwin

"So they told us that they weren't going to call us 'hos' and 'bitches' anymore, and that instead, they'd call us 'queens.' Well great! Now I'm a ho on a pedastal."
--Dr. Phyllis Jackson, Pomona College

"I won't be your monkey!!!"
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fats
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Mon Apr-01-02 02:17 PM

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25. "some problems:"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

i've said all this before, but ill go ahead and restate it:

-there is no sense of community. the biggest risk in opposing racism is losing your own community. billy bob and halle had no friends, and, hence, no risk in being with each other.

-halle is too pretty. billy bob is not overcoming any racism, he's just going after the finest piece in town.

-billy bob puts his dad in a home cause he's cockblocking.

-billy bob literally buys his way out of his old racism. give her a car, a home, name your gas station after her, and shazam the past is erased.

  

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NSZ
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Tue Apr-02-02 12:54 AM

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30. "He "touches her down there" too"
In response to Reply # 25


          

can't forget that

  

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dogalac
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Tue Apr-02-02 02:34 AM

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32. "RE: why this film was successful"
In response to Reply # 30


          

YOU ARE ALL TALKING ABOUT IT!! So whether you liked it or not you are adding to it's success either way. So is bell hooks. People will want to see if what you/he/she say(s) is true and they will see it. Thanks for the help.

----------------------------------------

"And even after all my logic and my theory, I add a muthaf*cka so you ignorant niggas hear me"-----Lauryn Hill "Zealots" from Fugees THE SCORE

"I RUN" can become the word "RUIN" so don't think you run sh*t. You just ruin it"------Me

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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33. "i don't care if it's successful"
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

still doesn't make it good.

i ain't hating on its success. i want it to be successful.

i was happy for Halle when she won the Oscar. part of me said that she didn't deserve it, but then the other half reminded me that Gwyneth, Julia and all the white broads that's won didn't deserve it either, so why start applying standards now?

_____________________

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The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

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heru2002
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Tue Apr-02-02 09:32 AM

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57. "RE: i don't care if it's successful"
In response to Reply # 33


          

Co-sign Yours, angel and janey had the best arguements about this movie. The movie was suspect from the moment I heard about it. Some friends of mine have seen it and said that it made them laugh from how unreal it was. It sucked on grounds of dialog and directing. Plus the sex scene served no real purpose. I am just mad people thing the movie was good. Next they are going to hear fools talkin about how great "Gone With the Wind" was great. Hollywood has over a hundred years of racism they have no new ideas. They keep recycling the same shit racist crap. keep up the battle. We will someday weed out the brainwashed.

Slavery still exists now its just mental.

Hotep

  

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L_O_Quent
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39. ",,,okay...."
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

>i've said all this before, but
>ill go ahead and restate
>it:
>
>-there is no sense of community.
> the biggest risk in
>opposing racism is losing your
>own community. billy bob
>and halle had no friends,
>and, hence, no risk in
>being with each other.

the point is that they are simular but comming from differant perspectives
>
>-halle is too pretty. billy
>bob is not overcoming any
>racism, he's just going after
>the finest piece in town.

if that was true then why didn't he try @ first
>
>-billy bob puts his dad in
>a home cause he's cockblocking.

the point of the movie was that he failed his son just like his father failed him. Halle on the other hand tried with all her heart not to fail her son and did her best. where each had thier downfalls the other was there to console. he put his dad in the nursing home because he didn't want to continue living in that way, plus his dad needed it (when he fell down)
>
>
>-billy bob literally buys his way
>out of his old racism.
> give her a car,
>a home, name your gas
>station after her, and shazam
>the past is erased.

how does he buy his way out? the truch was sitting there and he chose to name the gas station that because she was a major part of him seeing life differantly.... your forgetting that his son blew himself away right in front of him after he told him he always hated him... I honestly don't understand where you all are comming from with this distorted view of this extremely good movie. fuck it would you have rather she did B.A.P.S. 2?

*sigh*

The offspring :-D

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DolemiteConvention2001
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Thu Apr-04-02 02:56 AM

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59. "RE: ,,,okay...."
In response to Reply # 39


          

These arguments seemed far fetched to me. I don't see how Halle Berry is the tragic mulatto where there is no evidence of "oh,what a shame. If she were white she wouldn't have this hardship." Halle chose to do this role,it wasn't as if the producers said "we need a hot black piece of ass to sell the picture," although the nude scenes became the main reason why some came to see it. But it wasn't like that was premeditated. What sold the movie was word of mouth whether it be hot sex scenes or good reviews or controversy over the subject matter. And people like Ebert who really talked the film up as well helped matters. There is a genuine affection among the characters for each other,it isn't an all out poon fest for Billy Bob's character or just an excuse to get dick for Halle's. There's a lot of suppressed emotion in both of the characters from Halle's staying faithful all those years to her man in jail and now she reforms her life with a man that reforms his ways for her as well.

With the type of logic evidenced here,I'm wondering if the same people thought that Training Day was an example of how the white,pure American way of life must beat out the black man's hustling street ways and his community as well. Would you say that Ethan Hawke is pitted as the truth justice and the American way(white values) as opposed to Denzel.

  

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