Please...

If anyone would like to discuss any of these cultural ways of life, write back. Ask a question, make a comment. Remember the only enemy is ignorance.
Don't be one of these f**kers who runs around and puts down these beliefs without any real foundation.

God Bless,
Bambu
Watts 2000

"...Shelter, Teach, Show, and Protect the Children..."

are valid systems of faith. They rely much on the oldest known faith, which is magick. I can really only speak on Voodou in particular, because thats they only one I've studied. Almost all magickal systems share similarities in how the practitioner is infinitely connected and a part of the divine source of creation (typically a goddess, or a pantheon of dieties), unlike religion which holds up the concept of God as a separate entity and is used a means of social control. I'll offer more later.

Thanks for reading. I love you.

In Rotation:
Tool - Aenema
Deftones - White Pony
A Perfect Circle - Mer De Noms
Down - Nola
Slum Village - Fantastic Vol II
Black Sabbath - Sabotage

don't be fkn evil.

Stay tuned for my new vodoo action series- coming to comic book stores and Hip Hop shops near you.

K

Earlier this year I did some research on Ifa/Orisha/Orisa, Voodoo/Vodun, Santeria and the relationship with the worship rituals of the African diaspora, especially in the US. Some of my exploration came from my personal spiritual quest.

Voodoo comes from Orisha, the Yoruba word for "saints". The roots of Voodoo go back to the West African Yoruba people who lived in 18th/19th century Dahomey (parts of Nigeria, Togo, Benin). Now, Voodoo is practiced primarily in the West Indies and Haiti.

Going back to Orisha...in order to preserve the religion, slaves syncretized the orishas with Catholic saints. After the Cuban revolution in 1959, Santeria and Voodoo spread to the US and South America.

A major part of Orisha worship is play and transformation or journeys from one realm to another. Voodoo, like Christianity, is a religion of many paths. It is based on the cult of the serpent and channeling (transformation). Some points of similarity between Christian faith and Voodoo are a supreme being, "Loa" as saints, afterlife, ritual sacrifice, the consumption of flesh and blood, and evil spirits.

The comparison between the ancient religions and Black worship, especially in the South is significant. Transformation and channeling became getting the spirit and speaking in tongues (Baptist and Apostolic/Pentacostal). I always wondered why Black church service was different from White service, even in the same religion. Now I know that the way we worship has a deeper connection to our past or where we originated as Africans (most descendents of slaves can trace their ancestry back to West Africa).

Also, it is apparent that the African Diaspora carried religious worship in more than one direction: towards India and the so-called New World. Slavery literally destroyed African/Yoruba religion but descendants still honor the ancestors from within the boundaries of Christian belief.

I am in awe of how, after all we have went through over the centuries, Africans in the "New World" blended Yoruba into Catholicism (Voodoo) and other Christian faiths. Even our soul, r&b, hip-hop music came from the slaves who were allowed to perform at places like Congo Square in New Orleans. Ever wonder why we call our music soul music?

In order to transcend the madness that is the reality for many in the early 21st century, we need to look back and "open to spirit" like our ancestors did in order to overcome.


"No matter who you are or what your age may be, if you want to achieve permanent, sustaining success, the motivation that will drive you toward that goal must come from within." - Ultramagnetic MCs

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

Your reply was dope, but a little misguided.

"Santeria", rightly called Regla de Ocha or Lucumi, is the Caribbean variant of Ifa, which is the indigenous religion of Yoruba-speaking people in West Africa. It is primarily practiced/exported from Cuba, where there is a large Yoruba-descended population. Another South American variant, "Candomble", is practiced in Brazil, Uruguay and a couple of other countries. There is also Shango in Trinidad. All of these (and some other, less-centralized faiths in places like the Dominican Republic, Puerto Rico, Antigua etc.) are descended from Ifa.

Vodun is ANOTHER religion which shares many features and philosophies with Ifa, but it comes from a neighboring ethnic group (the Aja/Fon) . The words "Vodun" and "loa" mean something along the lines of "diety" in the Fon language, as does "Orisha" in Yoruba. They even share some of the same deities, but they are not the same religion. The Fon were exported in large numbers to Hispanolia (Haiti and the Dominican Republic), so this is where you find that faith heavily represented. There's also "Hoodoo" in New Orleans, which is related to Vodun, though it concentrates on folk medicine and traditional healing and not on spirituality. You may also find references to Palo, which is the indigenous faith of the Congolese.

Hope I helped.

I was under the impression that Lucumi was generally understood as a more unadulterated version of Ifa, and Santeria was a more hybrid creation focusing on the foundations of Ifa, but with more synchronization w/ Catholic saints and rituals.

Also, I'd love to know more about when Santeria became "introduced" into this country? I've heard two things: 1. that puerto Ricans brought it straight from the island; 2. that Cubans introduced it in its current form to Puerto Ricans during a large migration here ...

If anyone is interested in the Music of the religion, I can hook you up with many recordings. I play the bata drums (still studying) and am getting more involved in the community around where I live.

love and respect,
El Rey


http://www.mumia2000.org
http://www.mumia.org
http://www.mumia911.org

EFF A FAKE QUOTE! I DEAL WITH THE REAL (so if its artificail let it be ...) (c) Blac... awww, you know who

;-);-);-);-);-);-);-)
A mob is not autonomous: it executes the real will of the people who rule the state. The slaughter in Birmingham Alabama, for example, was not, merely, the action of a mob. That blood is on the hands of the state of Alabama: which sent those mobs into the streets to execute the will of the State ...

... A mob cannot afford to doubt: that the Jews killed Christ or that n*ggers want to rape their sisters or that anyone who fails to make it in the land of the free and the home of the brave deserves to be wretched. But these ideas don't come from the mob. They come from the state, which creates and manipulates the mob. The idea of a black person as property, for example, does not com from the mob. It is not a spontaneous idea. It does not come from the people, who knew better, who thought nothing of inter-marriage until they were penalized for it: this idea comes from the architects of the American State. These architects decided that the concept of Property was more important -- more real -- than the possibilities of the human being. (c) James Baldwin.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
who are you









really

They are not two faiths--the name "santeria" was a perjorative one imposed by the Spanish. "Regla de ocha/Lucumi/Ocha" are the names actually used by practioners. Certainly, there are different styles of worship--some never use the Yoruba names of the Orisha, and prefer to front like they're Catholic, while others are full-on Ifa practicioners with little use for the Catholic trappings. I would say the latter is "serious" Orisha veneration, while the former is pretty much empty ritual.

I'm sure that Ifa/Regla de Ocha was being practiced on Puerto Rico (and consequently here on the mainland) before the 1950s. Everything I know about the issue pinpoints the mass migration after the revolution as the starting point for mainland growth. Yoruba (who are properly called Anago, but that's a whole other thread) spirituality was being practiced here in the South, like South Carolina, Georgia and the Sea Islands as well.

it was also called Vodun, and white people interpreted that as, "Voodoo" hence the term "hoodoo voodoo". (My people are from Louisiana). Also, about 100,000 Hatians emigrated to Louisiana after the Louisiana purchase, so the practice of Vodun in Haiti and Louisiana is very similar.

Hekua Oya!!!!


"Y'all don't believe fat meat greasy!!"-my mama

"Unhappy People Smell Like Chitlins"
-'Stress

That's why I put "hoodoo" in quotations. It is actually derived from the same source Haitian Vodun is, but it has less emphasis on religious worship and more on herbal healing from what (admittedly little) I know.

Folks should not believe that our ancestral faiths were "destroyed" by slavery, colonialism or anything like that. Of course, Christianity and Islam have made major inroads on the continent and in the Diaspora, but we're a resilient and pragmatic people. When Yoruba Christians and Muslims (my family is Yoruba from Osun State in Nigeria) pray, they call God "Olorun" or "Olodumare." People still see babalawos to hear the odu, and go to the festivals for Shango and Oya etc. What warms my heart as a Harlem World resident is seeing how strong and vibrant the culture and religion still is in the lives of Spanish-speaking folks. And I'm happy that African-Americans don't fear that "voodoo" stigma as much any more.

I'm looking for a place myself.........


"Y'all don't believe fat meat greasy!!"-my mama

"Unhappy People Smell Like Chitlins"
-'Stress

Actually, I don't. I'm coming off my own long period of spiritual re-education, and still shaking off the missionary propaganda and so on. I also privately pray, thank and ask my egungun and orisha for what I want and need. I can get some addresses for iles if you want...

it would be soooooo nice if you know of some (any) in Brooklyn!! Thanks!

"Y'all don't believe fat meat greasy!!"-my mama

"Unhappy People Smell Like Chitlins"
-'Stress

perhaps i can help. tell me what you're looking for, and i'll try to steer you in that direction

Actually, I don't. I'm coming off my own long period of spiritual re-education, and still shaking off the missionary propaganda and so on. I also privately pray, thank and ask my egungun and orisha for what I want and need. I can get some addresses for iles if you want...

Giving thanks and praise to your Egun, and letting them open doors for you (realizing that it is in fact them opening the doors), is all the worship you really need. Thank the Orishas for helping you align yourself with your Ori -- which is what you should be working for (Iwapwele).

Again, thanks to all these responses (maybe we can exchange literature and other material in the future.

Ashe,
Bambu
Watts2000

I'm gonna just hop up in the middle cuz I been reading along... after abandoning christianity after not feeling the beliefs were something people of color should identify with.. i fell upon ifa, santeria, vodou and all that stuff.. I really like the ideas of Ifa and they're beilefs that have been with me.. i just didnt know if anybody agreed with me.. could you please send me addresses of places where i could further explore these beliefs or join?? Thanks

- Brown It Out !!!!

I see from your profile that you're from Brooklyn. I know a few Ile's (or families) out in that area. I don't know addresses or phone numbers, but I'll do my best to get a hold of some for you. Stay open and feel free to e-mail me or write me (any of y'all):
(my mailing address)

Jonah Deocampo
3538 Bougainville Rd.
San Diego, CA 92155

"...Shelter, Teach, Show, and Protect the Children..."

I'm gonna email you!

"Y'all don't believe fat meat greasy!!"-my mama

"Unhappy People Smell Like Chitlins"
-'Stress

I've been off the board for a minute, but it was good to come back to such responses. Everyone's response was positive -- thank you.
Ifa/Orisha studies is something I hold dear to me, and it is so hard to find others who share the same culture as I.
I'd like to address this: Why do we find it so easy to cling to Chinese, European, and even Egyptian metaphysics and deem it so hard to mention the REST of Africa and it's metaphysics? I understand that during colonialism the majority of the information and respect for the culture was destroyed, but it's still there (as proven by Nettrice, el_rey, and Odu). I like groups like dead prez, but the I Ching is nowhere near as complex and in depth (especially pertaining to the African in America) as African cultural religions. Egypt is beautiful, but Africa is a large body of land, and a beautiful array of people live there with convictions that hold strong in our lives today. The majority of the Africans who were stolen and brought here are from West Africa -- not Kemit. Hopefully my music (shameless plug) will open up this culture that's been swept under the rug (attempted), along with the artists out now that put Orisha in their music.

Ashe
Bambu (Ogun)
bambu@poetic.com
Watts 2000

"...through my shell, I see what the divine'll bring through it..."

"...is your name, Yemoja? Hell nah, it's got to be Oshun..."

I learned a few things from this exchange, too. My study of these religions was intended to prove to myself that there is a direct line or cycle of worship created by my ancestors and spread throughout the world. I want to pass this on to my future children.

I agree that so many of us (Africans in the West) forget to look to the religion of our ancestors and follow some other peoples' beliefs. I think that religion is a part of culture and even though ours was stripped from us centuries ago we now have access to our past.

I am reading "Opening to Spirit" by Caroline Shola Arewa and this book explores spirtual wisdom and myths from West Africa, Ancient Egypt and India. Although her primary focus is the chakra system she proves that there is a spiritual connection between all the ancient religions.


"No matter who you are or what your age may be, if you want to achieve permanent, sustaining success, the motivation that will drive you toward that goal must come from within." - Ultramagnetic MCs

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

First let me say that this is a beautiful thread. As for why many people turn to Egyptian systems rather than West African/Yoruba-based systems, I think it has to do with the way in which particular nationalist/community leaders develop a following within certain communities. I forget the guys name, but I know that the Egyptian system has gained much popularity in New York because of a small movement started by this one community leader (in Brooklyn maybe? I'm actually not that well versed in this.). I dunno why certain things seem to stick with a given community. Maybe African Americans think that Ifa is more what "those Spanish people" do ...

It is interesting to note about the origins of the Yoruba people though. I was recently reading that they actually were initially based geographically around where Egypt is today and migrated to West Africa centuries ago. Thier belief system had a lasting impact on the systems that were to later develop in Egypt, so perhaps the two are not so radically different.

Finally ... what's this about you making music?!!!! What is it like? For a while now, I've been working on my own project of fusing hip-hop/spoken word with Orisha rythms and songs (as well as Rumba and Salsa). What kind of stuff do you do/play? Are you a drummer? Akpon? Instrumentalist? You can't just get away with a small plug like that and expect music fiends like me not to want to know more (like you didn't want that ...).

love and respect,
El Rey


http://www.mumia2000.org
http://www.mumia.org
http://www.mumia911.org

EFF A FAKE QUOTE! I DEAL WITH THE REAL (so if its artificail let it be ...) (c) Blac... awww, you know who

;-);-);-);-);-);-);-)
A mob is not autonomous: it executes the real will of the people who rule the state. The slaughter in Birmingham Alabama, for example, was not, merely, the action of a mob. That blood is on the hands of the state of Alabama: which sent those mobs into the streets to execute the will of the State ...

... A mob cannot afford to doubt: that the Jews killed Christ or that n*ggers want to rape their sisters or that anyone who fails to make it in the land of the free and the home of the brave deserves to be wretched. But these ideas don't come from the mob. They come from the state, which creates and manipulates the mob. The idea of a black person as property, for example, does not com from the mob. It is not a spontaneous idea. It does not come from the people, who knew better, who thought nothing of inter-marriage until they were penalized for it: this idea comes from the architects of the American State. These architects decided that the concept of Property was more important -- more real -- than the possibilities of the human being. (c) James Baldwin.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
who are you









really

That's interesting.. I haven't heard anything relating to the Yoruba people migrating from Eygpt -- I'll read into it (Thank you).
My music? I can't believe you knew about that (shameless sarcasm)?! I just recorded a song called, "Oshun" and I recorded a song for Ogun called "Ironic" (Iron). I'm an emcee. I work with two bands, Jumbalya and Optic Nerve. We're based in Los Angeles, but my Ile is based in Oakland. I'd like to hear some of your stuff. If you get me a mailing address, I'll send you some tapes (or CD's if you prefer). I'm working with a band called Lucy Pearl right now -- hopefully it will all work out -- I plan on bringing Orisha into the Hip Hop world "full-force". I owe it to my Egun.

Ashe,
Bambu Smogwok'r
Watts 2000

Peace, I am Divine Ruler Equality Allah.
I am in the Nation of Gods and Earths.
I am Scientist, and not a religious person.
I have written a comparitve article on
the Oracle and Divination systems Of the Original People
and comparing it to the science of Chaos,
Fractals, and mechanical systems.
I hope you find it useful, in regards to
scientific explanations regarding oracles.
You can find it at

http://metalab.unc.edu/nge/divination.txt

Peace.

DRE Allah allah@metalab.unc.edu
http://metalab.unc.edu/nge/physical
Physical Science Productions

_______________________
"Arm Leg Leg Arm Hate." c/o desus
_______________________
Divine Ruler
http://www.facebook.com/divineruler
__gigs__
__stuff__

This is a great thread. I've been reading some responses as to why some people gravitate towards Kemetian and not West African Spiritual practices. The fact is that during my casual "study" of different belief systems: Tao, I-Ching, Ifa, etc.--there IS a connection between all of these, believe it or not.

As far as MY choice, the reason why I seem to gravitate towards Kemetian spiritual practices, instead of Yoruban (or anything else) is because my thinking was, "let me find the OLDEST spiritual practice known to mankind." The oldest spiritual practice known to humans is Kemetian spirituality. And I'm not trying to be braggadocious and spiritual-centric. It's just a fact.

Since I'm about facts, a great book to read would be entitled, The Religion of the Yorubas: Being an account of the religious beliefs and practices of the Yoruba peoples of Southern Nigeria. Especially in relation to the religion of ancient Egypt. (long title, huh?) Author: J. Olumide Lucas. Publisher: Athelia Henrietta Press, Inc., Brooklyn, New York (1996).

This author has his facts together. Everything he puts forth has SEVERAL DIFFERENT references. And the entire book is a parallel of Yoruba to the ancient Kemetic spiritual practices. This book is dope. This author is a wordsmith. He breaks down all the gods' names and makes a connection. He has a chapter entitled, "Survival of Hieroglyphics, emblems and other symbols: Historical connection of the Ife relics with Ancient Egypt." Hope this adds to this discussion.

Peace
Maat511