the feeling and excitement and buildup to this album could NOT be described if you were on age on dec 2 1982.

it was simply THE events of ALL events---

"can this beat "off the wall"?" is what most asked.

hahahahaha...


back then was an innocent time. sheeeeeit i remember begging my uncle to buy me the 8track!!!!! (last one i ever owned)---but he said no (i got one via columbia house back when all formats were a must have for an event like this).

big up to the event that changed all our lives

NO! LIST
Tom Petty
M J
Zeppelin
Springsteen
Neil Young
Eagles
Ray Charles
Madonna
Chuck Berry
South Park TV Songs
Justin Timberlake
"Food Glorious Food"
"Twilight Zone" theme
"A Boy Named Sue"
"Night Moves"
"The Situation"
"Superbowl Shuffle"

I just DIDN'T get it. (plus my Detroit ass was not hearing no damn M.J. on Mojo)

P.Y.T., yes. Human Nature,yes.

But Billie Jean, Beat It & Thriller wasn't my Mike.

I felt like a lot of these cats around here mad at Kanye.

Off The Wall? Awesome album

Thriller? To glossy, to big.

s.blak
Vincent Price

keep: looking,searching,seeking,finding

>
>I just DIDN'T get it. (plus my Detroit ass was not hearing no
>damn M.J. on Mojo)
>
>P.Y.T., yes. Human Nature,yes.
>
>But Billie Jean, Beat It & Thriller wasn't my Mike.
>
>I felt like a lot of these cats around here mad at Kanye.
>
>Off The Wall? Awesome album
>
>Thriller? To glossy, to big.
>

I liked some stuff from Thriller but it wasn't even in the same league as 1999

__________________________________
Reunion Radio December Artist of the Month: Slave

http://reunionradio.blogspot.com/

i think it's an age/taste thing with Thriller.

I think, it's the fact that when that record dropped, I was already changing the station in the car with the folks at will, buying albums, going to concerts, moving around the dial to see what was up on the rest of the radio.

Now my younger sister by eight years, BREATHED THAT ALBUM. hahahahahah

I was sincerely turned off, man. LOL.

That schitt is/was a huge spectacle with a couple of really good songs that ruined the Pop music game forever in my opinion.

almost every genre was competing to capture the Thriller formula, I made it a point to search for schitt that wasn't trying to be the penultimate gangbuster/blockbuster thing on the radio from then on, cause the schitt got SO insincere.

I mean, Whitney Fucking Houston is the first child of Thriller.
Her music is specifically made for dentist offices.

I mean look at Mike, that nigga damn near stopped singing words after that event/spectacle.

but honestly it's the sterilized sound of the production that's just so clusterfucky to me.

Those bright ass Quincy horns. The drum programming & sequencing. The synths. That distinct MJ rhythm guitar tone...ugghhh.

It was in the moment, but the schitt was TRYING to hard to be cutting edge & accessible AND lowest common denominator.

It sounded good right along side Men At Work on the radio, and changed the game.
But I don't listen to Men At Work's Business As Usual either, and don't miss it.
End of story.

But to have such reverence for exactly how Rome burned, and who struck the match?
Considering the dude was an undeniable force of nature up until that point anyways.

Thriller was Mike Jackson's crossroads. And I've maintained everyday of these 26 years that he got a raw deal.

Pop culture has to have a mania every so often to keep the business working.

M.J. got what he wanted. Right?

and hey, if you LOVE it. I understand.

Love needs no explanation

s.blak
Gotta Be Startin' Something © M.J.J.

keep: looking,searching,seeking,finding

...and one I've never heard before. I may just hear Thriller with a different ear next time...

-------------------------
Black Milk.
TRONIC
10.28.08
http://www.fatbeats.com/tronic

If it tried too hard, it succeeded even harder... and ain't no mafucka alive who can deny that... proof is in the results. Love it or hate it, he tapped into the soul of his generation. Mike ain't underground, he's a pop artist. He did exactly what he was trying to do... and exactly what nobody else did before or has been able to do since.

Please pick up.

All of this gospel/co-sign stannery is indicative of the link missing in the minds of rabid fans.

>If it tried too hard, it succeeded even harder...

are you agreeing that they succeded at trying to hard?
Good because I really see this is M.J.'s sell out moment. He wanted to be number one so badly he watered down Off The Wall with overthought crossover formulas.

>and ain't
>no mafucka alive who can deny that... proof is in the results.

So what?
Thriller could still be selling a million copies a day and I'd STILL think that aside from
P.Y.T., Wanna Be Starting Something & Human Nature, Thriller is a lame ass album.

For all the HOLY GHOSTS in this post, ain't schitt on Thriller harder than "Don't Stop Til You Get Enough" or "Working Day And Night" or smoother than "I Can't Help It".

And about those results you seem to be foaming at the mouth over...
The nigga made a song about zombies & ghouls,dawg. LOL.
...and you could dance to it.
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In retrospect it is a fitting "soul of a generation" record. "The evil lurking" at the door was the stampede of record labels and Mtv racing to ZOMBIFYING your generation with "What's Next!?!?!?!?!-itis" (seen here on OKP daily).

From this point on there was NO NATURAL PROGRESSION IN POP MUSIC DUE TO THRILLER'S SUCCESS.

The fact that you cannot digest the reality of this record aside from the success story is indicative of my overall point about the record.

Mike cashed in on Mike with Thriller,he made his point to the industry, it's too bad that his career peaked at Thriller because he's got better material on either side of "Thriller" (more good stuff before that's for sure).

What I've learned from this post and about OKP:

Thriller-stans are THEE most simplified thinkers ever (Parrott voice : *brrrrOOOOcccckkk* 40 MILLION SOLD!!! 40 MILLION SOLD!!! *whistles)

M.J. stans are wounded psychos that love synchronized choreography & lots of zippers

An A.D.D./fast food generation if ever there was one.

>Mike ain't underground, he's a pop artist. He
>did exactly what he was trying to do... and exactly what
>nobody else did before or has been able to do since.

Cash In & Go Crazy?

s.blak
You Try To Screeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaammmm

keep: looking,searching,seeking,finding

Damn homie, u missin' the whole point of my post.

Mike is a Pop n*gga.

The point of being a pop artist is to outsell others.... be the biggest. He aimed for that.

He hit his target.

^I big him up for hitting his target... whether I agree or disagree with the target. In that era though, mad other n*ggas were trying do EXACTLY what he did. They just couldn't. Even afterwards, mad n*ggas were trying to emulate Mike... hell a few still are.

I'm leaving my personal tastes outta the discussion. It ain't even about that. It's about calculated impact he made with the album whether I like Off The Wall better or if I even like Mike at all is irrelevant. I see that's pretty difficult for you tho... lol. No one said Thriller had to be your favorite album of all time... hell it ain't mine, but I gotta give the n*gga props for whipin' the floor the way he did. Nevermind tho, you like Off The Wall better, so obviously that's the better, more impactful album. Understood.

Your "point" has nothing to do with the conversation going on (that I was involved in in this post).

I'm talking about the music.

Your talking about sales.

Pour a lil' liquor out and jump on the couch Scientology style for me, cousin...


You niggas would never shut up if Innervisions sold 41 million albums.

I see how this works now.



s.blak
Look Mommy, A Black Man

keep: looking,searching,seeking,finding

The point is that he hit his mark
aka calculated impact.
You arguing music quality in pop music?
Kill yaself.
What you think a pop artist is about?
Stickin' to the "pop code" as if there is such a thing
outside of being popular aka selling records?
My point is that he didn't do that sh*t on accident.
He meant to sell records.
You thought I was arguing music quality?
Nah son, I'm not stupid enough to do that concering pop.
Mike ain't never claimed to be the realest musician.
N*gga is the SELF proclaimed King of Pop.
Fuck u smokin?
That's like judging 50 on some music quality sh*t.
N*gga already told you his aim is to get rich.
Why even bother?
That ain't even the aim.
You judgin' n*ggas on the basis of marks they ain't even
tryna hit.
Then you try to clown me?
lol
stop.

and your worldview and outlook on music is sad and very toilet-esque.

stick to wrestling & American Idol, music (pop or otherwise) doesn't need deadweight "fans" like you. Neither do message boards about in-depth music discussion.

s.blak
Starlight

keep: looking,searching,seeking,finding

Try seeing sh*t for what it is rather than
what you want it to be.

****************************
*********
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s278/jay8wonder/prince-4.jpg

and you feel strength in numbers.

Okayplayer.

Keep trying to catch the beat.

s.blak
Greg Phillinganes Red Keytar Upside Yr Empty Head

keep: looking,searching,seeking,finding

no further comments.
Study the previous comments and figure out
where, why, and how u sound ridiculous... lol
This was fun.
Thanks for the entertainment tho... we'll have
to do this again sometime.

As much as you want to talk about "hitting the mark", M.J. SOLD OUT on Thriller to avenge the better Off The Wall.

You don't think he wanted to "hit the mark" with OTW?

Use your whole brain, not just the parts that make you feel clever.

Especially when you're talking to me.

Aiight?

s.blak
Sunset Driver

keep: looking,searching,seeking,finding

and "thriller" clearly was.

good stuff on there, though. i ain't gonna front. i brought it as soon as it came out.

was it better than "off the wall"? um...it depends on whom you ask, i guess.

my take: "off the wall" was a better r&b album, "thriller" was a better pop album.

both were good.

but "thriller" was when mike clearly conquered the music world, and it has its place.

inaugural member - okayplayer sports hall of fame.


what i'm digging right now:

chocolate butterfly - self-titled
laura jane - welcome to my planet boo
me & this japanese guy - waiting for the miracle
wade3 - dreams
tracey amos - who are we really?

the title track alone took the chord progression from the Mama's and popa's "Monday,Monday" let's pretend were married had that UK synth thing going on, little red corvette without the re-mix was very pop and delirious.

thriller was pop but it was also so much more with it's depth and personality.

1999 had strong grooves and what have you but it was a pop album at the end of the day no matter how you cut it and no shame in that.

but i didn't see it as a pop record then, and i don't now. when i think of a pop album for prince, for me it starts with "purple rain".

"1999" to me was just another progression of prince in him using new wave, a little punk and rock in his funk like the previous two albums, but with a different twist.

i would say some of the hits became pop, but not the album overall.

"thriller" was a pop album. i knew that then. but it was a great album just the same.

inaugural member - okayplayer sports hall of fame.


what i'm digging right now:

chocolate butterfly - self-titled
laura jane - welcome to my planet boo
me & this japanese guy - waiting for the miracle
wade3 - dreams
tracey amos - who are we really?

and he did the same exact blueprint formula of mixing styles as MJ did and 1999 is a Pop album. it has funk on there but alot of the songs are pop based.

1999 just ain't & I love 1999.




http://cockygold.blogspot.com/ (updated daily)

Get 25% off www.karmaloop.com w/ rep code JR9103 at checkout!

In 1975, Michael Jackson meant more to me than Superman Spider-Man & Batman combined.

"Biggest" & "Ever" explain your experience and 50 million other people.

UNDERSTAND, out of the however many billions of people on earth, 50 million peoples collective euphoric experience doesn't negate the euphoria of the other scrillions.

That's how "hype" works. Sort of like religion, or racism or classism.
You put your blinders on and believe your schitt is the best and heaven is yours.

I enjoyed what I could and changed the station, minus the hype. I had options.

Do I feel left out because it was never the center of my musical universe?
No.

Do I think less of people who feel like that recording deserves a birthday cake every year?
No. But that doesn't mean that any/all dialogue automatically turn into a battle of good,better,best. Sanity or Insane?

remember I said, "meant/means more to me"? That's the part your missing.

All that matters is the dancefloor remains active. And the listeners are happy.

s.blak
KRS-ONE

keep: looking,searching,seeking,finding

Like Supa I was a huge MJ fan (still am really) I mean I worshiped at the alter of OTW, Triump and Destiny. But when I first heard Thriller all the way through I was disappointed. Not so much in that the songs were bad but more that they sounded like too much thought was given to how they would sound on the radio. Of course almost every album is made with that in mind but with Thriller it was just too blatantly obvious. Mike was determained to become of the king of pop and Thriller's sound reflected that mission.

1999 on the other hands just sounded like a more honest representation of where Prince was and where he was going. It really wasn't a huge leap from his previous albums.... it was more of a natural growth. Outside of 1999 and Little Red Corvette there wasn't anything that went out of it's way sound like something that would get radio play. And even with those two songs they weren't following a sound that was pervasive on pop radio in 1982. I know Mike put his heart into Thriller but aside from a few tracks it sounds like he forgot his soul.
__________________________________
Reunion Radio December Artist of the Month: Slave

http://reunionradio.blogspot.com/

Admittedly, I was into Mötley Crue and Saxon at the time so my opinion is moot but I REALLY like "Off the wall" nowadays, I think "Thriller", on the other hand, sounds too "MTV-80's" though, i could never get into that sound and I'm old enough to remember it (I was there...), maybe it's different for people who are younger OR older and didn't have that sound shoved down their throats...

On the other hand, I think it really captures the 80's crossover sound better than almost every other album so I have a hard time dissing it for that reason alone and it's WAY better than the stuff that followed in that vein to my ears...

"1999" feels fresher and better to me too

ahh, the album that changed the course of music as we know it. every artist whether openly admiting it or not, wants to have his or her own thriller. there's so many words you can use to describe that album, i'll just say...... classic

michael jackson was in full affect and in his element during this time and no one could touch or stop him. no one still can, if you ask me.

I remember listening to Thriller with my dads big ass headphones on when i was real little and how the Thriller video was the coolest thing i had ever seen on tv. Thriller is timeless.

Power to the People

I was shook.






Didn't hear Thriller all the way thru until around 8, when Bad conquered my fears (although looking back, I probably should have been more afraid of Mike on BAD).



Wanna laugh?


The mere thought of the Thriller video had me so piss-pants shook thatI refused to isten to the album on CASSETTE, because I had somehow convinced myself that I'd see the video.When I finally did hear it, it was my mom duke's vinyl copy, because I could "see" the album play.




Yes, I was a tiny coward. Or come to think of it, maybe just very astute for my age, thanks to my healthy, but inexplicable fear of Mike.


I was a Prince fan, then.

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http://i51.photobucket.com/album

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=5&topic_id=1919039&mesg_id=1919039&listing_type=search#1922678

>you said he achieved all his Artistic goals. I asked you to
>point 'em out.

while we all might be sick of hearing it and while it may not be as heavy as a What's Going On or Innervisions...the fact is many records we regard as "art" dont have the sociological or spiritual depth of those records...

it would be easy to say that the work of Leroy Burgess or even James Brown is fluff based on the subject matter and dismiss it as not being artistic..which is in fact what mainstream music press does to Black music as a whole...and I have a problem with that...

it would be easy to say that I Want You is just a record abt being horny just the same as a Jodeci record is....

now as far as Thriller is concerned, it is an artistic as well as a commercial landmark for these reasons:

A) you said in another post that you do not regard MJ as a songwriter or producer...which is unfair because he CLEARLY does both...as far as his first 2 albums w/Q.....people tend to overestimate Q's role...they tend to think that without a producer at the helm, Mike is helpless...it was Mike(w/the help of Randy Jackson) who created the the Jackson sound....it wasnt Jackie, Tito, or Marlon....and you see how well Jermaine faired on his own....

the the biggest issue that led J5 to leave Motown was lack of creative control....Mike was tired of being a singing puppet...he wanted his freedom in the studio...

CBS was unsure and made the group do two albums w/Philly Intl...after that it was time to put up or shut up...

so Mike and the boys got in the studio....CBS sent some studio pros in to make sure the shit didnt go wrong....the result was the Destiny album...the album that put them back on top....

with the exception of Blame It On The Boogie, ya boy wrote every song on that record...

he wanted to distance himself from his family and create a new sound for himself....since he'd already lent his sound to the family brand he brought in Q....

NOBODY else wanted Q...the word was that he was too old, that his track record in pop was unproven...look at the facts....before OTW and Thriller, Q was known as a bandleader and film composer, NOT a pop hitmaker....he'd had success w/the Brojays but that's it...the last pop hit that he was responsible for before that was It's My Party by Leslie Gore....

if you hit you tube and listen to the demos that Mike brought Q, you will see that very little is different from the album versions...

matter of fact, here ya go:
Dont Stop demo:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCWJfzH6FDY

Working Day and Night demo:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t51jUmABMlc

let's go to the Thriller demos....

The Girl Is Mine demo 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztXxORezhpg

Girl Is Mine studio demo 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWUgNAAfcfU

Billie Jean demo:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9E_1eYWx4fM

so...my point...is that Mike created these albums from his own vision....he hired Quincy for a)legitimacy and 2)to run the studio 3) for his connections 4)quality control

so what you hear is his vision not Quincy's...so from an artistic standpoint, he didnt just sit around and sing what Quincy put in front of him....he knew what he wanted and hired Q to translate....

after OTW, Mike went and cranked out another Jacksons album, Triumph...where he wrote every song except two...

so w.out Master Quincy, Mike was responsible for:
Shake Your Body
Heartbreak Hotel
Lovely One
Can You Feel It
Walk Right Now
Things I Do For You
...and the remaining songs on both Jacksons albums of that period...

but the music snobs like to think that Maestro Quincy sat Green Mike down and told him what to do....we can also add the folks that think Rod Temperton wrote every song on those two albums...and that's the reason why those records came out the way they did...

Mike created those albums from his own creative muse, so artistically for him, that's a W....

B) as far as Thriller specifically...Mike did something that no one else had done....he created the musical bridge for mainstream music from the 70's to the 80's...he was the cat who survived the 70's and led the way to he 80's, where most other 70's cats were tryna figure out what to do next...most of them were doing disco knock-offs and praying for their survival...

people glaze over it now...but what soul/R&B figure could create a hit rock record that was embraced across the board...AND considered authentic by the rock audience?(the snobs may have been pissed off, but they werent the ones buying the records)...what soul/R&B cat was collaborating with Van Halen....and have it WORK?

it wasnt Prince....w/out Beat It, could you have a Let's Go Crazy?

what other soul/R&B cat could get one of the Beatles on Black radio in the 80's?

what soul/R&B cat would get Vincent Price to drop spoken word in the middle a funk/R&B cut cum horror movie?

who was else at the time was incorporating African chants and percussion at a time when everyone was whitening it up sonically(including MJ)...and who would reference Soul Makossa in the 80's?

listen to the fact that a Black artist who was considered strictly soul/R&B decided to do a stylistic tour de force in one album when it hadnt been done before...

Thriller had:
Funk
straight R&B
Quiet Storm
MOR Pop
Rock

...all in one album by a Black aritst when such a thing was not only unheard of but frowned upon.....

futhermore, on Thriller he spoke abt teen preganancy, gang violence, challenging the social constructs of manhood, the culture of gossip, emotional blackmail, obsession, false accusations of paternity, and belief in one's self...

fluff?

these are ARTISTIC RISKS....they could have gone horribly awry, but they didnt....he did the record HIS way....and in a rare occurence that we will only see once in a lifetime, hit the bulls-eye and pleased EVERYBODY...the effects of that had both deep positive and negative effects on his work and the entire music industry after that....

let's remember...when Thriller was being conceived and recorded, MJ was still thought of as strictly an R&B act (Rolling Stone refused to do a cover story on him at the time), a boy band singer made good and the success or failure of the record was of little consequence to anyone BUT MJ...so pulling those strings wasnt as easy as we'd think it to be....

but WHY did he want to make a record like Thriller?....was it just to win the awards and make copious amounts of dough?

partially, yeah...but beyond that...why would MJ risk his entire career (which he'd done a few times before at that point) on a record that everybody, even QUINCY, thought would only be a mild follow up to OTW?

because he wanted out of the box...he wanted the limitations placed on Black musical artistry lifted...to end the segregation, so to speak...to send a message that you can follow your muse no matter what people say or think...you can do the kind of music you want to do and nobody should get in your way or try to stop you....

and he DID that...he achieved that goal of ARTISTIC freedom that reaps commercial success where it is unusual that the two paths EVER cross...

and whether you believe it or not is beside the point....MJ kicked down a huge barrier with Thriller...and many artists, regardless of culture or genre have reaped the benefits...

so at a superficial glance, it could appear that Thriller is nothing but the hottest chick in school for a couple years...but what happens when you talk to that chick and find out that there's more there than just eye candy...

so like I said....people can feel how they wanna feel abt the artist and the record, we're all entitled to our opinions...but give credit where credit is due is all Im saying....



*******
The Travels of Windimoto
iTunes, Napster, eMusic, Amazon, & 7digital

www.myspace.com/windimotomusic

www.windimoto.com - soon come

i actually saved that impromptu essay to my personal archives since not enough good posts get archived for real

*******
The Travels of Windimoto
iTunes, Napster, eMusic, Amazon, & 7digital

www.myspace.com/windimotomusic

www.windimoto.com - soon come

great read scorp.

------------------------------------------
latest mixtape:
https://www.mixcloud.com/mistamonotone/music-to-smack-motherfckers-to/

mistamonotone - taboo
http://mistamonotone.bandcamp.com/album/taboo

@mistamonotone
IG: mistamonotone

----

------------------------------------------
latest mixtape:
https://www.mixcloud.com/mistamonotone/music-to-smack-motherfckers-to/

mistamonotone - taboo
http://mistamonotone.bandcamp.com/album/taboo

@mistamonotone
IG: mistamonotone

that one important ingredient i posess is called SOUL..,

-Grouch & Eligh
SoulMan

On the strength of this post alone, I'm going to listen to this album again later tonight. Incredible post

_______________________________________
Good people, good lovin
Good music in my life, it makes me happy

http://www.mixcloud.com/adotsizzle/

everyne has it and the crazy thing is i was having these thoughts about mj about the bad album listening as i type this

the world is a toll-free toilet-george clinton

My brother needs to read this.

Great post.

https://digife.com

Respect...



©www.cristianrios.com

"The Return Of The Dirty Cymbals"
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NEXT: The Waldorf & Statler Experience | The Conversation | The Funky Fragment Junction

NO! LIST
Tom Petty
M J
Zeppelin
Springsteen
Neil Young
Eagles
Ray Charles
Madonna
Chuck Berry
South Park TV Songs
Justin Timberlake
"Food Glorious Food"
"Twilight Zone" theme
"A Boy Named Sue"
"Night Moves"
"The Situation"
"Superbowl Shuffle"

( i say in my l.a. chicano accent)
that one important ingredient i posess is called SOUL..,

-Grouch & Eligh
SoulMan

excellent job man.

Check out my flicks...http://www.flickr.com/photos/sirapexthegreatest/sets/
http://nohayrosasinespina.bitacoras.com/imagenes/peter_griffin.jpg
http://s3.amazonaws.com/static.onmylist.com/list_item_images/39053/lets-shit_list_view.jpg

posts like this should be encouraged here

D*mn! You broke it down!

"We don't make mistakes, we just have happy little accidents" - Bob Ross

"I'm wearing a MSU Tshirt because I went to MSU, you are wearing a UM Tshirt because you went to Walmart!" -unknown.

http://bjsquirrelchronicles.blogspot.com

.

redeemed the Lesson for me

....i've never heard/read a review of that album in context in which you put it fam......you might need to go back and post some more reviews on albums we might not consider as monumental but after reviews like this you could make Akon look like a all time great..lol....thanks fam!

__________________________________
"The people don't come because you grandiose motherfuckers don't play shit that they like!" © Shadow Henderson

..the best summation i've ever read regardin' this album

good show, ol' chap. good show...


-----------------------------------------
*2007 okayblowhards champion*
-----------------------------------------
clap, mufukahs!.. (c) p.s.
-----------------------------------------

..and miles to go before i sleep...

****************************
*********


http://i34.tinypic.com/2cpduvq.jpg


http://searchwithkanyewest.prodege.com/?cmd=sb-register&rb=236854

thriller will be going into my new ipod 2dizzay.

"How do you expect me to be, when my point of view you never see?"

this made coming to the lesson for real

props awarded


ive changed

This is silly... MJ wrote and continues to attempt to write middle of the road pop songs. He doesn't have a sound - he has a vision. He isn't artistic... there's nothing that intriguing about his music. His musical palette is limited and his visions are pretty basic.

Beat It is not a rock song - There Will Be Rock by AC/DC is. The latter is sincere while the former aims to try to please and while it does for many, it doesn't sound real and soulful.


>http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=5&topic_id=1919039&mesg_id=1919039&listing_type=search#1922678
>
>>you said he achieved all his Artistic goals. I asked you to
>>point 'em out.
>
>while we all might be sick of hearing it and while it may not
>be as heavy as a What's Going On or Innervisions...the fact is
>many records we regard as "art" dont have the sociological or
>spiritual depth of those records...
>
>it would be easy to say that the work of Leroy Burgess or even
>James Brown is fluff based on the subject matter and dismiss
>it as not being artistic..which is in fact what mainstream
>music press does to Black music as a whole...and I have a
>problem with that...
>
>it would be easy to say that I Want You is just a record abt
>being horny just the same as a Jodeci record is....
>
>now as far as Thriller is concerned, it is an artistic as well
>as a commercial landmark for these reasons:
>
>A) you said in another post that you do not regard MJ as a
>songwriter or producer...which is unfair because he CLEARLY
>does both...as far as his first 2 albums w/Q.....people tend
>to overestimate Q's role...they tend to think that without a
>producer at the helm, Mike is helpless...it was Mike(w/the
>help of Randy Jackson) who created the the Jackson sound....it
>wasnt Jackie, Tito, or Marlon....and you see how well Jermaine
>faired on his own....
>
>the the biggest issue that led J5 to leave Motown was lack of
>creative control....Mike was tired of being a singing
>puppet...he wanted his freedom in the studio...
>
>CBS was unsure and made the group do two albums w/Philly
>Intl...after that it was time to put up or shut up...
>
>so Mike and the boys got in the studio....CBS sent some studio
>pros in to make sure the shit didnt go wrong....the result was
>the Destiny album...the album that put them back on top....
>
>with the exception of Blame It On The Boogie, ya boy wrote
>every song on that record...
>
>he wanted to distance himself from his family and create a new
>sound for himself....since he'd already lent his sound to the
>family brand he brought in Q....
>
>NOBODY else wanted Q...the word was that he was too old, that
>his track record in pop was unproven...look at the
>facts....before OTW and Thriller, Q was known as a bandleader
>and film composer, NOT a pop hitmaker....he'd had success
>w/the Brojays but that's it...the last pop hit that he was
>responsible for before that was It's My Party by Leslie
>Gore....
>
>if you hit you tube and listen to the demos that Mike brought
>Q, you will see that very little is different from the album
>versions...
>
>matter of fact, here ya go:
>Dont Stop demo:
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCWJfzH6FDY
>
>Working Day and Night demo:
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t51jUmABMlc
>
>let's go to the Thriller demos....
>
>The Girl Is Mine demo 1:
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztXxORezhpg
>
>Girl Is Mine studio demo 2:
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWUgNAAfcfU
>
>Billie Jean demo:
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9E_1eYWx4fM
>
>so...my point...is that Mike created these albums from his own
>vision....he hired Quincy for a)legitimacy and 2)to run the
>studio 3) for his connections 4)quality control
>
>so what you hear is his vision not Quincy's...so from an
>artistic standpoint, he didnt just sit around and sing what
>Quincy put in front of him....he knew what he wanted and hired
>Q to translate....
>
>after OTW, Mike went and cranked out another Jacksons album,
>Triumph...where he wrote every song except two...
>
>so w.out Master Quincy, Mike was responsible for:
>Shake Your Body
>Heartbreak Hotel
>Lovely One
>Can You Feel It
>Walk Right Now
>Things I Do For You
>...and the remaining songs on both Jacksons albums of that
>period...
>
>but the music snobs like to think that Maestro Quincy sat
>Green Mike down and told him what to do....we can also add the
>folks that think Rod Temperton wrote every song on those two
>albums...and that's the reason why those records came out the
>way they did...
>
>Mike created those albums from his own creative muse, so
>artistically for him, that's a W....
>
>B) as far as Thriller specifically...Mike did something that
>no one else had done....he created the musical bridge for
>mainstream music from the 70's to the 80's...he was the cat
>who survived the 70's and led the way to he 80's, where most
>other 70's cats were tryna figure out what to do next...most
>of them were doing disco knock-offs and praying for their
>survival...
>
>people glaze over it now...but what soul/R&B figure could
>create a hit rock record that was embraced across the
>board...AND considered authentic by the rock audience?(the
>snobs may have been pissed off, but they werent the ones
>buying the records)...what soul/R&B cat was collaborating with
>Van Halen....and have it WORK?
>
>it wasnt Prince....w/out Beat It, could you have a Let's Go
>Crazy?
>
>what other soul/R&B cat could get one of the Beatles on Black
>radio in the 80's?
>
>what soul/R&B cat would get Vincent Price to drop spoken word
>in the middle a funk/R&B cut cum horror movie?
>
>who was else at the time was incorporating African chants and
>percussion at a time when everyone was whitening it up
>sonically(including MJ)...and who would reference Soul Makossa
>in the 80's?
>
>listen to the fact that a Black artist who was considered
>strictly soul/R&B decided to do a stylistic tour de force in
>one album when it hadnt been done before...
>
>Thriller had:
>Funk
>straight R&B
>Quiet Storm
>MOR Pop
>Rock
>
>...all in one album by a Black aritst when such a thing was
>not only unheard of but frowned upon.....
>
>futhermore, on Thriller he spoke abt teen preganancy, gang
>violence, challenging the social constructs of manhood, the
>culture of gossip, emotional blackmail, obsession, false
>accusations of paternity, and belief in one's self...
>
>fluff?
>
>these are ARTISTIC RISKS....they could have gone horribly
>awry, but they didnt....he did the record HIS way....and in a
>rare occurence that we will only see once in a lifetime, hit
>the bulls-eye and pleased EVERYBODY...the effects of that had
>both deep positive and negative effects on his work and the
>entire music industry after that....
>
>let's remember...when Thriller was being conceived and
>recorded, MJ was still thought of as strictly an R&B act
>(Rolling Stone refused to do a cover story on him at the
>time), a boy band singer made good and the success or failure
>of the record was of little consequence to anyone BUT MJ...so
>pulling those strings wasnt as easy as we'd think it to
>be....
>
>but WHY did he want to make a record like Thriller?....was it
>just to win the awards and make copious amounts of dough?
>
>partially, yeah...but beyond that...why would MJ risk his
>entire career (which he'd done a few times before at that
>point) on a record that everybody, even QUINCY, thought would
>only be a mild follow up to OTW?
>
>because he wanted out of the box...he wanted the limitations
>placed on Black musical artistry lifted...to end the
>segregation, so to speak...to send a message that you can
>follow your muse no matter what people say or think...you can
>do the kind of music you want to do and nobody should get in
>your way or try to stop you....
>
>and he DID that...he achieved that goal of ARTISTIC freedom
>that reaps commercial success where it is unusual that the two
>paths EVER cross...
>
>and whether you believe it or not is beside the point....MJ
>kicked down a huge barrier with Thriller...and many artists,
>regardless of culture or genre have reaped the benefits...
>
>so at a superficial glance, it could appear that Thriller is
>nothing but the hottest chick in school for a couple
>years...but what happens when you talk to that chick and find
>out that there's more there than just eye candy...
>
>so like I said....people can feel how they wanna feel abt the
>artist and the record, we're all entitled to our
>opinions...but give credit where credit is due is all Im
>saying....
>
>
>
>*******
>The Travels of Windimoto
>iTunes, Napster, eMusic, Amazon, & 7digital
>
>www.myspace.com/windimotomusic
>
>www.windimoto.com - soon come

http://www.soundcloud.com/jaydeep-bhadra

how do you define artistic?

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http://i34.tinypic.com/2cpduvq.jpg


http://searchwithkanyewest.prodege.com/?cmd=sb-register&rb=236854

that one important ingredient i posess is called SOUL..,

-Grouch & Eligh
SoulMan

it was with Michael Jackson! that shlunk.
(in my l.a. chicano accent)
that one important ingredient i posess is called SOUL..,

-Grouch & Eligh
SoulMan

I feel in the 80s, he's one of the few artists who's albums that still sounds fresh to an extent (I don't like to use "dated" because if it's good music, it really shouldn't matter when it was made. From The Jacksons album in '76 to even 2001's Invincible, he experimented with different sounds. He has an album of classical compositions that he did in 1979 that remains unreleased.

In terms of artistry, he may not be a "musician's musician", but the man is capable and there's no denying his talent. He may not be as "deep" as Stevie or Prince, but those 3 are on diffent planes and levels of "genius" IMO

I gained more appreciation for the production of Destiny, Off The Wall, Thriller, and Triumph when I was helping out on a book about Michael's work about a year or two ago

Good music is good music

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http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s278/jay8wonder/prince-4.jpg

MJ did it all and prince never made a better album than thriller or off the wall.

_________________________________________

_

shakin your block with a 6 million dollar bop

_

www.davidevanmcdowell.com

thanks for this read. Substantial post with no filler, time for me to break out the albumn.

See ya, JAK
http://www.staugustinepics.com/

Winner of OKP Second Photo Kontest
Pic #6 http://www.tha-renaissance.com/effstop/kontest2

...

……………….,,
http://gravalicious.tumblr.com/archive

"If you're not loving someone, you're wasting your time." - Dennis Brown

I have a 400 year old chip on my shoulder.

>The Girl Is Mine demo 1:
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztXxORezhpg

in the weeks since you posted this, the user removed it i liked that version a lot. it was interesting to hear him work out the melody. the other one's still up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BjwGPvwZNU

that second "demo" is a fake.
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http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s278/jay8wonder/prince-4.jpg

>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BjwGPvwZNU

not that one...


>that second "demo" is a fake.

what? the really lo-fi one with him talking and writing the melody? it sounded so real. so an impersonator went through all that trouble of talking and singing like MJ to create a fake recording of him writing "the girl is mine"? o_O