This is silly... MJ wrote and continues to attempt to write middle of the road pop songs. He doesn't have a sound - he has a vision. He isn't artistic... there's nothing that intriguing about his music. His musical palette is limited and his visions are pretty basic.

Beat It is not a rock song - There Will Be Rock by AC/DC is. The latter is sincere while the former aims to try to please and while it does for many, it doesn't sound real and soulful.


>http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=5&topic_id=1919039&mesg_id=1919039&listing_type=search#1922678
>
>>you said he achieved all his Artistic goals. I asked you to
>>point 'em out.
>
>while we all might be sick of hearing it and while it may not
>be as heavy as a What's Going On or Innervisions...the fact is
>many records we regard as "art" dont have the sociological or
>spiritual depth of those records...
>
>it would be easy to say that the work of Leroy Burgess or even
>James Brown is fluff based on the subject matter and dismiss
>it as not being artistic..which is in fact what mainstream
>music press does to Black music as a whole...and I have a
>problem with that...
>
>it would be easy to say that I Want You is just a record abt
>being horny just the same as a Jodeci record is....
>
>now as far as Thriller is concerned, it is an artistic as well
>as a commercial landmark for these reasons:
>
>A) you said in another post that you do not regard MJ as a
>songwriter or producer...which is unfair because he CLEARLY
>does both...as far as his first 2 albums w/Q.....people tend
>to overestimate Q's role...they tend to think that without a
>producer at the helm, Mike is helpless...it was Mike(w/the
>help of Randy Jackson) who created the the Jackson sound....it
>wasnt Jackie, Tito, or Marlon....and you see how well Jermaine
>faired on his own....
>
>the the biggest issue that led J5 to leave Motown was lack of
>creative control....Mike was tired of being a singing
>puppet...he wanted his freedom in the studio...
>
>CBS was unsure and made the group do two albums w/Philly
>Intl...after that it was time to put up or shut up...
>
>so Mike and the boys got in the studio....CBS sent some studio
>pros in to make sure the shit didnt go wrong....the result was
>the Destiny album...the album that put them back on top....
>
>with the exception of Blame It On The Boogie, ya boy wrote
>every song on that record...
>
>he wanted to distance himself from his family and create a new
>sound for himself....since he'd already lent his sound to the
>family brand he brought in Q....
>
>NOBODY else wanted Q...the word was that he was too old, that
>his track record in pop was unproven...look at the
>facts....before OTW and Thriller, Q was known as a bandleader
>and film composer, NOT a pop hitmaker....he'd had success
>w/the Brojays but that's it...the last pop hit that he was
>responsible for before that was It's My Party by Leslie
>Gore....
>
>if you hit you tube and listen to the demos that Mike brought
>Q, you will see that very little is different from the album
>versions...
>
>matter of fact, here ya go:
>Dont Stop demo:
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCWJfzH6FDY
>
>Working Day and Night demo:
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t51jUmABMlc
>
>let's go to the Thriller demos....
>
>The Girl Is Mine demo 1:
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztXxORezhpg
>
>Girl Is Mine studio demo 2:
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWUgNAAfcfU
>
>Billie Jean demo:
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9E_1eYWx4fM
>
>so...my point...is that Mike created these albums from his own
>vision....he hired Quincy for a)legitimacy and 2)to run the
>studio 3) for his connections 4)quality control
>
>so what you hear is his vision not Quincy's...so from an
>artistic standpoint, he didnt just sit around and sing what
>Quincy put in front of him....he knew what he wanted and hired
>Q to translate....
>
>after OTW, Mike went and cranked out another Jacksons album,
>Triumph...where he wrote every song except two...
>
>so w.out Master Quincy, Mike was responsible for:
>Shake Your Body
>Heartbreak Hotel
>Lovely One
>Can You Feel It
>Walk Right Now
>Things I Do For You
>...and the remaining songs on both Jacksons albums of that
>period...
>
>but the music snobs like to think that Maestro Quincy sat
>Green Mike down and told him what to do....we can also add the
>folks that think Rod Temperton wrote every song on those two
>albums...and that's the reason why those records came out the
>way they did...
>
>Mike created those albums from his own creative muse, so
>artistically for him, that's a W....
>
>B) as far as Thriller specifically...Mike did something that
>no one else had done....he created the musical bridge for
>mainstream music from the 70's to the 80's...he was the cat
>who survived the 70's and led the way to he 80's, where most
>other 70's cats were tryna figure out what to do next...most
>of them were doing disco knock-offs and praying for their
>survival...
>
>people glaze over it now...but what soul/R&B figure could
>create a hit rock record that was embraced across the
>board...AND considered authentic by the rock audience?(the
>snobs may have been pissed off, but they werent the ones
>buying the records)...what soul/R&B cat was collaborating with
>Van Halen....and have it WORK?
>
>it wasnt Prince....w/out Beat It, could you have a Let's Go
>Crazy?
>
>what other soul/R&B cat could get one of the Beatles on Black
>radio in the 80's?
>
>what soul/R&B cat would get Vincent Price to drop spoken word
>in the middle a funk/R&B cut cum horror movie?
>
>who was else at the time was incorporating African chants and
>percussion at a time when everyone was whitening it up
>sonically(including MJ)...and who would reference Soul Makossa
>in the 80's?
>
>listen to the fact that a Black artist who was considered
>strictly soul/R&B decided to do a stylistic tour de force in
>one album when it hadnt been done before...
>
>Thriller had:
>Funk
>straight R&B
>Quiet Storm
>MOR Pop
>Rock
>
>...all in one album by a Black aritst when such a thing was
>not only unheard of but frowned upon.....
>
>futhermore, on Thriller he spoke abt teen preganancy, gang
>violence, challenging the social constructs of manhood, the
>culture of gossip, emotional blackmail, obsession, false
>accusations of paternity, and belief in one's self...
>
>fluff?
>
>these are ARTISTIC RISKS....they could have gone horribly
>awry, but they didnt....he did the record HIS way....and in a
>rare occurence that we will only see once in a lifetime, hit
>the bulls-eye and pleased EVERYBODY...the effects of that had
>both deep positive and negative effects on his work and the
>entire music industry after that....
>
>let's remember...when Thriller was being conceived and
>recorded, MJ was still thought of as strictly an R&B act
>(Rolling Stone refused to do a cover story on him at the
>time), a boy band singer made good and the success or failure
>of the record was of little consequence to anyone BUT MJ...so
>pulling those strings wasnt as easy as we'd think it to
>be....
>
>but WHY did he want to make a record like Thriller?....was it
>just to win the awards and make copious amounts of dough?
>
>partially, yeah...but beyond that...why would MJ risk his
>entire career (which he'd done a few times before at that
>point) on a record that everybody, even QUINCY, thought would
>only be a mild follow up to OTW?
>
>because he wanted out of the box...he wanted the limitations
>placed on Black musical artistry lifted...to end the
>segregation, so to speak...to send a message that you can
>follow your muse no matter what people say or think...you can
>do the kind of music you want to do and nobody should get in
>your way or try to stop you....
>
>and he DID that...he achieved that goal of ARTISTIC freedom
>that reaps commercial success where it is unusual that the two
>paths EVER cross...
>
>and whether you believe it or not is beside the point....MJ
>kicked down a huge barrier with Thriller...and many artists,
>regardless of culture or genre have reaped the benefits...
>
>so at a superficial glance, it could appear that Thriller is
>nothing but the hottest chick in school for a couple
>years...but what happens when you talk to that chick and find
>out that there's more there than just eye candy...
>
>so like I said....people can feel how they wanna feel abt the
>artist and the record, we're all entitled to our
>opinions...but give credit where credit is due is all Im
>saying....
>
>
>
>*******
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