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Melanism
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20452 posts
Sat Mar-17-01 06:43 PM

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"Memento"


          

the best movie of the year (thus far)

a great idea with perfect execution that needs to be seen twice.

if it is playing near you, GO

NOW.

I sitll haven't pieced everything together.

m e l a n i s m

http://www.melanism.com

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WARNING: if you are reading this then this warning is for you. every word you read off this useless fine print is another second off your life. don't you have other things to do? is your life so empty that you honestly can't think of a better way to spend these moments? or are you so impressed with authority that you give respect and credence to all who claim it? do you read everything you're supposed to read? do you think everything you're supposed to think? buy what you're told to want? get out of your apartment. meet a member of the opposite sex. stop the excessive shopping and masturbation. quit your job. start a fight. prove you're alive. if you don't claim your humanity, you will become a statistic. you have been warned.--tyler durden

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
im jealous, mel...
Mar 18th 2001
1
otnemem (and other film noir flicks)
May 22nd 2001
120
      Following was just here
May 22nd 2001
121
      RE: Following was just here
Jun 20th 2001
150
      RE: otnemem (and other film noir flicks)
May 28th 2001
122
      RE: Whoops!
May 28th 2001
123
      film noir flicks)
Jun 14th 2001
138
           RE: film noir flicks)
Jun 14th 2001
139
                Webster's sucks
Jun 14th 2001
140
lucky ass
Mar 18th 2001
2
RE: lucky ass
Brass_Tacts
Apr 02nd 2001
28
(you can reach me at bboombap@hotmail.com, or aim: shockdiggy)
Mar 18th 2001
3
check out the website
Mar 23rd 2001
4
memory is unreliable
Mar 23rd 2001
8
      classic
May 11th 2001
70
           correction
May 11th 2001
71
                WHOA
May 15th 2001
90
                     RE: WHOA
May 16th 2001
108
RE: Memento
Mar 23rd 2001
5
i heard mixed reviews
Mar 23rd 2001
6
fuck mixed reviews
Mar 23rd 2001
7
RE: Memento
Mar 26th 2001
9
RE: Memento
Mar 29th 2001
10
RE: Memento
Mar 29th 2001
11
here's my question:
Mar 31st 2001
12
RE: here's my question:
May 11th 2001
72
      Explanations/Revelations
Jun 18th 2001
145
Interesting, not great!
Apr 01st 2001
13
RE: Interesting, not great!
Apr 01st 2001
14
please
May 11th 2001
73
      RE: please pt II
May 11th 2001
74
      i'm still not reading red eye yet (he's too good)
May 15th 2001
92
           wtf?
May 16th 2001
107
                defensive much??
May 22nd 2001
118
      the jag (spoilers ahead!)
May 28th 2001
126
           RE: the jag (spoilers ahead!)
May 29th 2001
128
                RE: the jag (spoilers ahead!)
Jun 03rd 2001
132
Once again...
Apr 01st 2001
15
Good post
Apr 02nd 2001
16
Like I said
Apr 02nd 2001
18
Fair enough
Apr 02nd 2001
20
Absolutely right
Apr 02nd 2001
19
RE: Once again...
Apr 02nd 2001
21
Yep (bigtime spoilers!)
Apr 02nd 2001
22
RE: Yep (bigtime spoilers!)
Apr 02nd 2001
23
RE: Agree yet disaree
Apr 10th 2001
34
Yeah, I'd like to know too
Apr 10th 2001
37
No one did
Apr 23rd 2001
64
      Sammy Hagar?
Apr 23rd 2001
65
      RE: No one did
Jun 28th 2001
158
good shit...
Apr 21st 2001
63
shit
May 15th 2001
95
and that reason is what?
Jun 17th 2001
142
      RE: and that reason is what?
Jun 18th 2001
147
FLAGRANT FOUL!!! *whistle blowing*
Apr 03rd 2001
30
      RE: FLAGRANT FOUL!!! *whistle blowing*
Apr 03rd 2001
31
           that's what i meant to say but i'm an idiot
Apr 03rd 2001
32
RE: Once again...
Brass_Tacts
May 06th 2001
67
2 gimmicks?
May 11th 2001
75
welcome to the party pal!
May 11th 2001
79
      it makes me jealous
May 15th 2001
87
           RE: it makes me jealous
May 15th 2001
88
                yup
May 15th 2001
96
                     knock yourself out
May 16th 2001
101
                     nah
May 16th 2001
109
                          All the flashbacks
May 18th 2001
113
                          you are extremely difficult...
May 22nd 2001
119
honestly
May 15th 2001
94
I'm a psych major
May 18th 2001
112
okay
May 29th 2001
127
damn
AfricanHerbsman
Apr 02nd 2001
17
beg to differ my brother
Apr 02nd 2001
24
RE: beg to differ my brother
Apr 02nd 2001
25
RE: beg to differ my brother
Apr 02nd 2001
26
RE: beg to differ my brother
Apr 02nd 2001
27
RE: beg to differ my brother
Apr 02nd 2001
29
      great point
May 15th 2001
97
RE: beg to differ my brother
May 11th 2001
76
RE: Memento
Apr 10th 2001
33
Broadway Market
Apr 10th 2001
36
      RE: Mmmkay
Apr 10th 2001
38
The Facts *spoilers, do not read*
Apr 10th 2001
35
RE: The Facts *spoilers, do not read*
Apr 10th 2001
39
RE: The Facts *spoilers, do not read*
Apr 17th 2001
54
minor spoiler-- sammy jenkins & leonard
Apr 13th 2001
40
yea .. I noticed that
Apr 15th 2001
41
      i think...
Apr 16th 2001
43
      i need help
Apr 19th 2001
61
      RE: i need help
Apr 20th 2001
62
      i think 'teddy' was fucking with him
May 15th 2001
98
RE: Memento
Apr 16th 2001
42
RE: Memento
Apr 16th 2001
44
RE: Memento
Apr 16th 2001
46
RE: Memento
Apr 16th 2001
47
      Do they?
Apr 16th 2001
48
           RE: Do they?
Apr 16th 2001
49
                RE: Do they? *spoilers*
Apr 16th 2001
50
                     RE: Do they? *spoilers*
Apr 17th 2001
56
                          RE: Do they? *spoilers*
Jun 17th 2001
141
                               RE: Do they? *spoilers*
Jun 17th 2001
143
                                    No
Jun 18th 2001
144
                                         RE: No
Jun 18th 2001
146
                                              I didnot know that
Jun 20th 2001
149
RE:Jekyll, do not underestimate the capitalist angle
Apr 17th 2001
57
      RE:Jekyll, do not underestimate the capitalist angle
Apr 17th 2001
58
Memento
May 16th 2001
103
      RE: Memento
May 16th 2001
106
Favourite Line:
Apr 16th 2001
45
Guy Pearce interview swipe
Apr 16th 2001
51
this
Apr 16th 2001
52
yay! saw it
Apr 17th 2001
53
Interesting goof...
Apr 17th 2001
55
not a goof
Apr 18th 2001
59
      RE: not a goof
Apr 18th 2001
60
           RE: not a goof
May 06th 2001
66
           you are so wrong, man
May 20th 2001
115
Don't call me lenny....
May 06th 2001
68
one more question
May 08th 2001
69
million dollar question!
May 11th 2001
77
i think...(spoil)
May 11th 2001
78
      so you are saying..
May 11th 2001
80
           arrgh!
May 11th 2001
81
                Exactly
May 11th 2001
82
                man, i will never hate
May 11th 2001
83
                     RE: My take on the Sammy thing
May 14th 2001
84
i wanna overthink
May 15th 2001
99
very OK....but still just ok
isisbabyboy
May 14th 2001
85
You don't have to like it
May 14th 2001
86
BEFORE I READ ALL THESE
May 15th 2001
89
..
May 15th 2001
91
      see now
May 15th 2001
93
damnit Where's ?uest
May 15th 2001
100
RE: DVD PLEASE!!!
May 16th 2001
102
read the short story
May 16th 2001
105
flasback with his wife laying on him...
May 16th 2001
104
      EXACTLY
Jun 04th 2001
134
can't believe it's been a month n/m
May 17th 2001
110
Just saw the movie
May 18th 2001
111
RE: Memento
May 19th 2001
114
The Name Schtick
May 20th 2001
116
makes em hard to remember
May 20th 2001
117
whoa
May 28th 2001
124
whewww
bassmonk
May 28th 2001
125
RE: Memento
Dave
May 29th 2001
129
THIS MOVIE....
AdSmock
Jun 02nd 2001
130
      RE: THIS MOVIE....
Jun 04th 2001
135
      RE: Horror Flick?
Jun 05th 2001
136
Memento's director
Jun 03rd 2001
131
RE: Memento's director
Jun 20th 2001
151
RE: Memento's director
Jun 20th 2001
152
      RE: Memento's director
Jun 20th 2001
153
RE: Memento
Jun 03rd 2001
133
a small goof
Jun 09th 2001
137
RE: HERE IT IS FOLKS!!!
Jun 19th 2001
148
I finally saw it!!!!!!!!
Wise_7
Jun 25th 2001
154
RE: Kill me phucko!
Jun 25th 2001
155
      See, that's what's wrong.
Wise_7
Jun 27th 2001
156
           RE: See, that's what's wrong.
Jun 28th 2001
157

SankofaII
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30751 posts
Sun Mar-18-01 03:08 AM

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1. "im jealous, mel..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

memento has a LIMITED distribution deal, so it MAY NOT be coming out here to pittshell..though i AM optimistic that it (and caveman's valentine) will be here the 23rd since IN THE MOOD FOR LOVE is playing in area theaters right now as i type this to you (if you can, check it out if it's still in NYC..i posted a review of sorts on it...good shit, War Kong-Wai (director), Maggie (Man-yuk) Cheung-Assayas, and Tony Leung are OUTSTANDING HERE).
i hope it comes..ive been hearing about this movie for a year now and i want to see it...

Ryan


"'One must return to the past in order to move foward with his or her future'".


"'Conformity and Individuality are two varying and difficult extremes...Baby, strive to be an individual. Ill respect you more and KNOW that my raising you is not in vain'".
--Mama Canty


Get Out the Room
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misteranonymity
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1111 posts
Tue May-22-01 11:40 AM

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120. "otnemem (and other film noir flicks)"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

It's been in Milwaukee for a month or so, but I finally got a chance to see it. This has by far got to be one of the best movies I've seen this year that actually came out this year (I would count "George Washington", but that was released last year). Ever since the mid-'90s, there has been a connection that some films have had with fractured memory, non-linear narrative, and unreliable P.O.V. & narration (i.e. Fight Club, The Sixth Sense, The Usual Suspects, etc.). I would add "Memento" to that list. Thinking of using these conventions in a genre such as film noir is already ambitious in itself. This actually working in film noir is just genius. You can also place this film along with "Blade Runner", "Chinatown", "L.A. Confidential" and "Devil in a Blue Dress" as one of the best film noir films made in the past 30 years (if anyone else can think of any, please let me know).

What I found striking about this film is the succession of the events throughout the narrative. Not only were the scenes going in the opposite direction, but what's supposed to be the beginning of the film becomes the transitional point for each scene. Not to mention great performances by Guy Pearce (Ed Exley from "L.A. Confidential"---fave actor of yours, Shockzilla?), Joe Pantoliano, and Carrie-Anne Moss (Cypher & Trinity from "The Matrix").

In some ways, Leonard Shelby (Pearce) reminded me of Tyler Durden (Edward Norton) from "Fight Club", because each character appeared to be a victim throughout the entire movie, but the viewer becomes confused to whether the person is responsible for their own problems. Being that this was a film of the film noir genre, it was also very interesting to see how the femme fatale (the part where she faked getting beat by her boyfriend was genius--handled like a true femme fatale) and the crooked(?) cop played into a film that operated in this fashion.

This is probably the only movie I see released this year for a while. I'll be at the crib watching art-house flicks that I was supposed to see last year (I was never into the summer blockbuster thing anyway--none of them never live up to their expectations). Actually, the director of this film, Christopher Nolan, made a film before this called "Following". It'll be in Milwaukee in June, so I'll be sure to post the review once I see it.

ma
meudontno@hotmail.com

"Just because we're well-spoken and intelligent doesn't mean we're not human."
--?uestlove, justifying why the Roots have a stripper pole in their studio

  

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REDeye
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6598 posts
Tue May-22-01 12:30 PM

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121. "Following was just here"
In response to Reply # 120


          

in Seattle.

Missed it.

I'm pissed.

But oh well.

RED
I'm like that guy who used a pointed stick instead of a rock.

RED
http://arrena.blogspot.com

  

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misteranonymity
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1111 posts
Wed Jun-20-01 07:05 AM

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150. "RE: Following was just here"
In response to Reply # 121


  

          

Check out my review somewhere in this section. You'll hate that you missed that flick! It complemented _Memento_ in many ways.

ma
meudontno@hotmail.com

"Just because we're well-spoken and intelligent doesn't mean we're not human."
--?uestlove, justifying why the Roots have a stripper pole in their studio

  

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jigga
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31583 posts
Mon May-28-01 09:55 AM

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122. "RE: otnemem (and other film noir flicks)"
In response to Reply # 120


  

          

I also noticed the similarities between Leonard and Tyler Durden while watching Memento. Ed Norton did an amazing acting job in that movie and Guy Pearce performance as Leo was just as good. @ bad the Academy probaly wont recognize this

Screw you guys...I'm goin home -Cartman

The mother of civilization, wants 2 know my occupation, home location and means of transportation. The correct combination unlocks her placenta. Ive got a cellular phone w/ a rubba antenna, own a 3 story house, drive a 4 door Ac, favorite song of all time, Mobb Deeps hit it from the back...then jet. -Ras Kass

...she said, "Do you have a car? Is your shit up 2 par?" Damn! a nigga need a resume just sittin at tha bar! -Ras Kass

Cuz bitches are like flies(why)they attract 2 the best shit. -Ras Kass

Cowards make a little cheese, then enlarge artificially, like Pamela Anderson Lee's double D's, please! I'm bangin from Belize 2 Tel Aviv in tha Red Sea racin Saddam Hussien on Kawasaki jet skies. -Ras Kass

18 willin rednecks, sendin me death threats, cuz their niece fantasize about wet sex, when I'm in her headsets. -Opio from Souls of Mischief

Tryin 2 do all I can do in this car...her mom's Jaguar -A-plus from Souls of Mischief

You think you're able 2 label the Hiero sound? You still havent found a comparable variable -Del

You live on the edge? I live on the San Andreas. -Evidence

I AINT GOT TIME 4 NO JIBBA JABBA!!!-Mr.T





  

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jigga
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31583 posts
Mon May-28-01 10:00 AM

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123. "RE: Whoops!"
In response to Reply # 122


  

          

Was supposed 2 B "2 bad the Academy..."

Screw you guys...I'm goin home -Cartman

The mother of civilization, wants 2 know my occupation, home location and means of transportation. The correct combination unlocks her placenta. Ive got a cellular phone w/ a rubba antenna, own a 3 story house, drive a 4 door Ac, favorite song of all time, Mobb Deeps hit it from the back...then jet. -Ras Kass

...she said, "Do you have a car? Is your shit up 2 par?" Damn! a nigga need a resume just sittin at tha bar! -Ras Kass

Cuz bitches are like flies(why)they attract 2 the best shit. -Ras Kass

Cowards make a little cheese, then enlarge artificially, like Pamela Anderson Lee's double D's, please! I'm bangin from Belize 2 Tel Aviv in tha Red Sea racin Saddam Hussien on Kawasaki jet skies. -Ras Kass

18 willin rednecks, sendin me death threats, cuz their niece fantasize about wet sex, when I'm in her headsets. -Opio from Souls of Mischief

Tryin 2 do all I can do in this car...her mom's Jaguar -A-plus from Souls of Mischief

You think you're able 2 label the Hiero sound? You still havent found a comparable variable -Del

You live on the edge? I live on the San Andreas. -Evidence

I AINT GOT TIME 4 NO JIBBA JABBA!!!-Mr.T





  

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ya Setshego
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4259 posts
Thu Jun-14-01 09:52 AM

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138. "film noir flicks)"
In response to Reply # 120


  

          

What is a "film Noire" exactly? I know what Noire means in French, but I thought it was a term to identify indy films. Is this incorrect?


"Don't Hate the PLAYA Boy...hate the GAME," Granddad Freeman of the Boondocks(7-11-99)

*Twenty-three percent of women are "autoerotic singles" — they prefer to achieve sexual satisfaction alone(source-bet.com)

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2. U are white
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Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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jigga
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31583 posts
Thu Jun-14-01 10:40 AM

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139. "RE: film noir flicks)"
In response to Reply # 138


  

          

Here's websters.com definition "a type of crime film featuring cynical malevolent characters in a sleazy setting and an ominous atmosphere that is conveyed by shadowy photography and foreboding background music; also : a film of this type"

Screw you guys...I'm goin home -Cartman

The mother of civilization, wants 2 know my occupation, home location and means of transportation. The correct combination unlocks her placenta. Ive got a cellular phone w/ a rubba antenna, own a 3 story house, drive a 4 door Ac, favorite song of all time, Mobb Deeps hit it from the back...then jet. -Ras Kass

...she said, "Do you have a car? Is your shit up 2 par?" Damn! a nigga need a resume just sittin at tha bar! -Ras Kass

Cuz bitches are like flies(why)they attract 2 the best shit. -Ras Kass

Cowards make a little cheese, then enlarge artificially, like Pamela Anderson Lee's double D's, please! I'm bangin from Belize 2 Tel Aviv in tha Red Sea racin Saddam Hussien on Kawasaki jet skies. -Ras Kass

18 willin rednecks, sendin me death threats, cuz their niece fantasize about wet sex, when I'm in her headsets. -Opio from Souls of Mischief

Tryin 2 do all I can do in this car...her mom's Jaguar -A-plus from Souls of Mischief

You think you're able 2 label the Hiero sound? You still havent found a comparable variable -Del

You live on the edge? I live on the San Andreas. -Evidence

I AINT GOT TIME 4 NO JIBBA JABBA!!!-Mr.T





  

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REDeye
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6598 posts
Thu Jun-14-01 11:21 AM

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140. "Webster's sucks"
In response to Reply # 139


          

While that definition is 100% accurate, it is quite inadequate in covering the range of film noir work. (But you know this.)

A full definition would take a mighty long post, and many complete books have been written on the subject. But out of all distinctive genres, true film noir probably has the most rigid and well-defined sets of rules of all.

Film noir that stuck to the original rules sort of faded out in the 60's. But since then, several generations have tried to redefine film noir for a new audience. The first movie credited with "reinventing" or "reinvigorating" film noir was CHINATOWN in 1974. Of the rules it broke, most striking was the one about it being dark -- one of the elements that gave the genre it's name. Setting a film noir in sunny Los Angeles was a stroke of genius. But "noir" also refers to the hearts of many of the characters, and in that way Chinatown is more than faithful to the genre.

Since then, filmmakers working in film noir have found many ways to update, transform and expand the range of the genre while still remaining faithful to main tenets: BODY HEAT (which was extremely faithful), BLADERUNNER, DEVIL IN A BLUE DRESS, THE LAST SEDUCTION and too many more to count.

While there are full lists of the "rules" of film noir, every one, regardless of where or when you set it, must have these two elements to be called film noir: the protagonist (usually male) who always seems to know less than the people around him, and the femme fatale who is not be trusted.

Usually the guy gets sucked into a crime plot by the femme fatale, and it usually turns out bad for him. But this isn't always the case, especially in Hollywood where they love the happy ending.

I love the genre and have dabbled in it myself. The trick is to come up with new ways to use the genre while keeping faithful to the rules. MEMENTO manages to completely flip the genre on its head, but is more faithful to the genre than most recent attempts. Yet another reason why this film is so remarkable.

RED
I'm like that guy who used a pointed stick instead of a rock.

RED
http://arrena.blogspot.com

  

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zero
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8108 posts
Sun Mar-18-01 10:07 AM

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2. "lucky ass"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I'm out in the wonderful world of northern California. The closest we get is San Francisco on the 30th. and I dont drive {San Fran is 2 hours away}, and Im not about to walk that far. Is it going to be like CTHD (in that if it does well in the limited release, they might consider distributing widely)?

I hope so. Guy Pearce is the shit

-zero¹

  

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Brass_Tacts

Mon Apr-02-01 12:22 PM

  
28. "RE: lucky ass"
In response to Reply # 2


          

where you at in norcal?

tact

  

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shockzilla
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Sun Mar-18-01 07:54 PM

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3. "(you can reach me at bboombap@hotmail.com, or aim: shockdiggy)"
In response to Reply # 0


          

(questions about okayplayer.com should be directed to help@okayplayer.com)
(please read the guidelines before posting http://www.okayplayer.com/guidelines.html)
reviews moderator
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(Crowe Russell go --Oscars the hopefully and) .Hollywood over taking are really Aussies us --well doing Pierce Guy see to good .it see wanna really i but ,either here opens it when sure not


  

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Hot_Damali
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8959 posts
Fri Mar-23-01 04:48 AM

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4. "check out the website"
In response to Reply # 0


          

that shit is ill ... www.otnemom.com

Sean...I saw it last night and i was blown away...I WILL be going to see it again very soon...hit me up on IM cuz i wanna discuss it with you. But i have one question for the masses:

Do you think it would have been as effective if the story played out forwards instead of backwards?

Damali, The Analog Girl in a Digital World


  

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Melanism
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20452 posts
Fri Mar-23-01 05:58 PM

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8. "memory is unreliable"
In response to Reply # 4


          

the director/writer said that he did it backwards so that the audience was limtied just like leonard

and weren't you?

didn't you forget shit and it was soooo frustrating...

holla at me, veronica...we need to talk.

we need to make everybody see this movie so we can figure it out

m e l a n i s m

http://www.melanism.com

What??? I deleted your post? Did you read the guidelines?
(http://www.okayplayer.com/guidelines.html)
***even if you did, get a grip***

Deadly Venom Spitterz-we like acid, we burn yuh!!! uncafukka!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WARNING: if you are reading this then this warning is for you. every word you read off this useless fine print is another second off your life. don't you have other things to do? is your life so empty that you honestly can't think of a better way to spend these moments? or are you so impressed with authority that you give respect and credence to all who claim it? do you read everything you're supposed to read? do you think everything you're supposed to think? buy what you're told to want? get out of your apartment. meet a member of the opposite sex. stop the excessive shopping and masturbation. quit your job. start a fight. prove you're alive. if you don't claim your humanity, you will become a statistic. you have been warned.--tyler durden

-------------------
http://twitter.com/Melanism

  

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spirit
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21434 posts
Fri May-11-01 01:23 AM

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70. "classic"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

just saw it last night...

reading the short story it was derived from now...

and BOY does the short story hold a major curve explaining everything...it's just what i suspected...

if you want to know who John G. was, click the link below...John is just who I thought he was...

http://www.esquire.com/features/articles/001323_mfr_memento_6.html

Thoughtfully yours,

Spirit Equality

MAY IS "J.U.I.C.E. IS ILL AS HELL" MONTH. GET THIS MAN'S MATERIAL BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY.

"Sincerely"
When I design rhyme in daylight
Or primetime I stay tight
I walk the fine line
between an emcee and a playwright
I represent the underground world, it's a unique scene
There's no record deals, no videos and street teams
I do shows to keep green
I know I'm not a star man,
I'm signed to myself
And my mic's my A&R man
In double nine I guess it's just a sign of the times
The spotlight that I've been looking for is finally mine
I never thought about the dough when I'm designing my rhyme
As long as I can reach my peoples over vinyl I'm fine
It ain't about that
I opened up for cats who ain't as dope as me
While I ripped the flow, they lip synched the show hopelessly
From Heaven I was sent to the game to entertain
I may never pimp that '75 ta cop that blue Range Rover
But even if I don't remain sober
I'ma score double digits
till the fuckin' games over

- J.U.I.C.E. (from '99), "Sincerely"

ps: COMICS ARTIST NEEDED!!!!!!!! INBOX ME!!!!!

http://www.mp3.com/miscellaneousflux -
Just listen, you will believe...

"In the first forty years of the twentieth century, about half of all
blacks who were killed, were killed by law enforcement." - Tim Wise, shocking statistic of the moment

"Smack it up, Flip It, Rub It Down.. OH NOOOO!! - This always intrigued me. What horrible catastrophe was caused by rubbing it down? If he just stopped after flipping it could this tragedy have been avoided?" - jsmooth995, LOL of the month


Peace,

Spirit (Alan)
http://wutangbook.com

  

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spirit
Charter member
21434 posts
Fri May-11-01 01:33 AM

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71. "correction"
In response to Reply # 70


  

          

not sure if the short story was saying what I thought it was now that I've finished it...

spoilers...










I think the guy raped and killed his own wife. And the cop somehow helped him escape to use him as a hired assassin who would forget every hit. Maybe.

Or maybe John G. the cop did it and was playing with the main character, Lenny, letting him chase him while he was right under Lenny's nose. Hmmm.

Interesting that the femme fatale never got hers in the end. Very unlike the typical noir in that respect.

Thoughtfully yours,

Spirit Equality

MAY IS "J.U.I.C.E. IS ILL AS HELL" MONTH. GET THIS MAN'S MATERIAL BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY.

"Sincerely"
When I design rhyme in daylight
Or primetime I stay tight
I walk the fine line
between an emcee and a playwright
I represent the underground world, it's a unique scene
There's no record deals, no videos and street teams
I do shows to keep green
I know I'm not a star man,
I'm signed to myself
And my mic's my A&R man
In double nine I guess it's just a sign of the times
The spotlight that I've been looking for is finally mine
I never thought about the dough when I'm designing my rhyme
As long as I can reach my peoples over vinyl I'm fine
It ain't about that
I opened up for cats who ain't as dope as me
While I ripped the flow, they lip synched the show hopelessly
From Heaven I was sent to the game to entertain
I may never pimp that '75 ta cop that blue Range Rover
But even if I don't remain sober
I'ma score double digits
till the fuckin' games over

- J.U.I.C.E. (from '99), "Sincerely"

ps: COMICS ARTIST NEEDED!!!!!!!! INBOX ME!!!!!

http://www.mp3.com/miscellaneousflux -
Just listen, you will believe...

"In the first forty years of the twentieth century, about half of all
blacks who were killed, were killed by law enforcement." - Tim Wise, shocking statistic of the moment

"Smack it up, Flip It, Rub It Down.. OH NOOOO!! - This always intrigued me. What horrible catastrophe was caused by rubbing it down? If he just stopped after flipping it could this tragedy have been avoided?" - jsmooth995, LOL of the month


Peace,

Spirit (Alan)
http://wutangbook.com

  

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UrbanCowgRRL
Charter member
8764 posts
Tue May-15-01 08:51 PM

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90. "WHOA"
In response to Reply # 71


  

          

that's an interesting twist that crossed my mind too, i was like, damn he's just working the law, taking out the bad guys for the cops..

but if you read my post (yeah it was long)..i think the second scenario..but damn i gotta keep reading through these..i'm sure it's somewhere here, damn smart okps..

OH shit, i just remembered how the pic of the bloody lenny was old and teddy had it ( he had to have killed one dude w/ teddy) cause he had the tats in that photo (could it have been his wife??..not in that photo, already had tats) ..it really seemed like he loved her too much...maybe a breakdown and he couldn't bare it, but didn't fully kill himself



Much love,
Kyle

go vote for me, cause i'm extreme and deserve to be on TV..oh yeah, and i'll buy tara something too

http://bluetorch.tv/host/voteforme.asp?id=41472

****************************************
let ang be a rock star! no more moderating for her!

Need Posting help...Go here----->http://www.okayplayer.com/guidelines.html

Want that incredible deep post of yours or your friends archived, email me through the boards...Or use the handy private message button
****************************************

much love,
Kyle

Detroit..Let's GO!!! May 12th Dilla Walk for Lupus...Belle Isle...

http://walk.lupusresearch.org/goto/blackeyedskeez

Even a Dollar can HELP..


http://www.myspace.com/jedikyle
http://www.detroitderbygirls.com/

  

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spirit
Charter member
21434 posts
Wed May-16-01 08:01 PM

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108. "RE: WHOA"
In response to Reply # 90


  

          

my theories were wrong. realized it after the second time i saw the flick.

i'll put some more thought in it later, it's almost 2am.

Thoughtfully yours,

Spirit Equality

MAY IS "J.U.I.C.E. IS ILL AS HELL" MONTH. GET THIS MAN'S MATERIAL BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY.

"Sincerely"
When I design rhyme in daylight
Or primetime I stay tight
I walk the fine line
between an emcee and a playwright
I represent the underground world, it's a unique scene
There's no record deals, no videos and street teams
I do shows to keep green
I know I'm not a star man,
I'm signed to myself
And my mic's my A&R man
In double nine I guess it's just a sign of the times
The spotlight that I've been looking for is finally mine
I never thought about the dough when I'm designing my rhyme
As long as I can reach my peoples over vinyl I'm fine
It ain't about that
I opened up for cats who ain't as dope as me
While I ripped the flow, they lip synched the show hopelessly
From Heaven I was sent to the game to entertain
I may never pimp that '75 ta cop that blue Range Rover
But even if I don't remain sober
I'ma score double digits
till the fuckin' games over

- J.U.I.C.E. (from '99), "Sincerely"

ps: COMICS ARTIST NEEDED!!!!!!!! INBOX ME!!!!!

http://www.mp3.com/miscellaneousflux -
Just listen, you will believe...

"In the first forty years of the twentieth century, about half of all
blacks who were killed, were killed by law enforcement." - Tim Wise, shocking statistic of the moment

"Smack it up, Flip It, Rub It Down.. OH NOOOO!! - This always intrigued me. What horrible catastrophe was caused by rubbing it down? If he just stopped after flipping it could this tragedy have been avoided?" - jsmooth995, LOL of the month


Peace,

Spirit (Alan)
http://wutangbook.com

  

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Re_Alief
Charter member
1314 posts
Fri Mar-23-01 10:25 AM

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5. "RE: Memento"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Y'all got me...gonna see it in about 2 hours (hope it's all y'all saying it is! )

Peace2U,
Ré Alief ~~~> part-time poster

"it feels good to feel good" - Sugah
http://www.BlackPlanet.com/Members/MyPage/viewpage.html?MEMBER=SukiSuli


http://hiphopmusic.com/index2.html
http:/www.TankGreen.com
http://cubiclegirl.diaryland.com/010121_71.html
http://hiphop.thatbitch.com/
http://www.blackbutterfly.net/everclear
http://www.recordkingdom.com

Peace2U

  

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epluribusunum
Charter member
1770 posts
Fri Mar-23-01 10:39 AM

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6. "i heard mixed reviews"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

the momento website is clever & intriguing. if i had one movie to see this weekend...is this the one? more info please / no spoilers...thx!

  

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Hot_Damali
Charter member
8959 posts
Fri Mar-23-01 10:53 AM

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7. "fuck mixed reviews"
In response to Reply # 6


          

people who only go see big budget hollywood fluff like The Mexican don't know what to do when they see a truly original, engaging, thought provoking movie such as this...fuck them and the expense accounts they flew in on

>the momento website is clever &
>intriguing. if i had
>one movie to see this
>weekend...is this the one?

IF you see anything else other than this this weekend, I will petition to have you screen name and password esponged from the okayserver. Is that affirmative enuff for you?

>more info please / no
>spoilers...thx!

The main character has lost his short term memory as a result of an 'incident' that happened in his home involving him and his wife being attacked by an intruder. He cannot remember anything that happened after the incident and he cannot retain any information or events for longer than 15 minutes. This is his life forever. In the meantime, he's trying to find his wife's murderer and to top it all off, the movie happens in reverse order...meaning each in scene, you see what happened before instead of after. Dope as fucking hell. The plot twists are endless...everything you think you know, you don't.

Damali, The Analog Girl in a Digital World


  

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jigga
Charter member
31583 posts
Mon Mar-26-01 06:21 AM

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9. "RE: Memento"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Ive been reading about this flick in Entertainment Weekly and I'm intrigued as hell already. I certainly do hope its playing somewhere close. Hows Joe Pantoliano in this flick? I think hes one of the more underated actors out there 2day (probably cuz he only does supporting roles) He's real tight in The Sopranos right now but I'm not sure if hes gonna make it past next weeks episode.

Screw you guys...I'm goin home -Cartman

The mother of civilization, wants 2 know my occupation, home location and means of transportation. The correct combination unlocks her placenta. Ive got a cellular phone w/ a rubba antenna, own a 3 story house, drive a 4 door Ac, favorite song of all time, Mobb Deeps hit it from the back...then jet. -Ras Kass

...she said, "Do you have a car? Is your shit up 2 par?" Damn! a nigga need a resume just sittin at tha bar! -Ras Kass

Cuz bitches are like flies(why)they attract 2 the best shit. -Ras Kass

Cowards make a little cheese, then enlarge artificially, like Pamela Anderson Lee's double D's, please! I'm bangin from Belize 2 Tel Aviv in tha Red Sea racin Saddam Hussien on Kawasaki jet skies. -Ras Kass

18 willin rednecks, sendin me death threats, cuz their niece fantasize about wet sex, when I'm in her headsets. -Opio from Souls of Mischief

Tryin 2 do all I can do in this car...her mom's Jaguar -A-plus from Souls of Mischief

You think you're able 2 label the Hiero sound? You still havent found a comparable variable -Del

You live on the edge? I live on the San Andreas. -Evidence

I AINT GOT TIME 4 NO JIBBA JABBA!!!-Mr.T





  

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native_son
Charter member
776 posts
Thu Mar-29-01 08:01 AM

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10. "RE: Memento"
In response to Reply # 0


          

saw it last night, it was great, left me confused about who i was and why i dont take notes all over my body. the disjointed way the narrative unfolded penetrated my pysche making the viewing experience pleasurably uncomfortable.

i have a few questions while the film is still fresh and my memory relatively sharp...
spoilers follow:

1. did he kill his wife and was sammy a real character or an invention?

2. did he ever kill the actual killer in the bathroom or were there two people in the house?

3. carrie ann moss' character was magnificiently manipulative, did she indeed play leonard against 'teddy', as 'teddy" said she would?

4. who was 'teddy'?


native son

  

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Re_Alief
Charter member
1314 posts
Thu Mar-29-01 11:35 AM

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11. "RE: Memento"
In response to Reply # 10


          

>i have a few questions while the film is still fresh and my memory relatively sharp...
just got in, trying to respond with a clear head...

>spoilers follow:
>
>1. did he kill his wife and was sammy a real character or an invention?
He participated in his wife's death (she actualy committed suicide) and no, sammy wasn't real.

>2. did he ever kill the actual killer in the bathroom or were there two people in the house?
I'm a lil confused, cuz "teddy" told him that it was 2 junkies in the house and you see him cap 1 of the dudes, hmmmm!?

>3. carrie ann moss' character was magnificiently manipulative, did she indeed play leonard
>against 'teddy', as 'teddy" said she would?
WORD! She played him like a motha! "teddy" wasn't no angel either, they both used him!! (he took care of that dude for her and he kilt the dealer for "teddy", who almost got away with $200,000)

>4. who was 'teddy'?
Teddy was John G's cover. He was really a cop. He actually used the truth against dude quite well! He had him bugging the fuck out!

Peace2U,
Ré Alief ~~~> part-time poster

"it feels good to feel good" - Sugah
http://www.BlackPlanet.com/Members/MyPage/viewpage.html?MEMBER=SukiSuli


http://hiphopmusic.com/index2.html
http:/www.TankGreen.com
http://www.nerve.com/Photography/Essien/Perfection/
http://cubiclegirl.diaryland.com/010121_71.html
http://hiphop.thatbitch.com/
http://www.blackbutterfly.net/everclear
http://www.recordkingdom.com

Peace2U

  

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thebigfunk
Charter member
10469 posts
Sat Mar-31-01 10:48 AM

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12. "here's my question:"
In response to Reply # 0


          

*spoiler(?)*

WTF was in the basement?

You know how at the beginning (end?) of the movie, 'teddy' tells Leonard (as he's about to kill him) to go to the basement to see who he really is? What's in the basement...?

Wait a second. Is it that drug dealer's body, Jimmy whatever?

Damn that movie was confusing... that shit was a trip.

-thebigfunk
"And you may ask yourself... what is that beautiful house?
And you may ask yourself... where does that highway go?
And you may ask yourself... Am I right? Am I wrong?
And you may ask yourself... MY GOD! WHAT HAVE I DONE!?!" - "Once In A Lifetime" - Talking Heads

"Trouble in transit/got through the roadblock/we blended with the crowd
We got computer/we're tapping phone lines/I know that ain't allowed
We dress like students/we dress like housewives/or in a suit and a tie
I changed my hairstyle/so many times now/I don't know what I look like!
You make me shiver/I feel so tender/we make a pretty good team
Don't get exhausted/I'll do some driving/you ought to get some sleep
Get you instructions/follow directions/then you should change your address
Maybe tomorrow/Maybe the next day/Whatever you think is best
Burned all my notebooks/What good are notebooks?/They won't help me survive...
My chest is aching/Burns like a furnace/The burning keeps me alive..." - "Life During Wartime" - Talking Heads

-thebigfunk

~ i could still snort you under the table ~

  

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spirit
Charter member
21434 posts
Fri May-11-01 01:39 AM

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72. "RE: here's my question:"
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

>*spoiler(?)*
>
>WTF was in the basement?

the dead body of the drug dealer he killed for Teddy, who he was led to believe was John G.

The way the movie is structured though, you're never sure if the rapist ever got killed. In fact, i started to think that Lenny himself did the rape/killing, but he lacked a motive.

>You know how at the beginning
>(end?) of the movie, 'teddy'
>tells Leonard (as he's about
>to kill him) to go
>to the basement to see
>who he really is?
>What's in the basement...?
>
>Wait a second. Is it
>that drug dealer's body, Jimmy
>whatever?

yeah. what, your memory was failing? LOL.

jimmy was in the basement. teddy figured if lenny saw jimmy, he could explain that jimmy was john g and get out of being capped. by the end, we see that lenny has convinced himself that teddy is the killer.

by the end, it's all lies and deceit and I'm still not sure if he ever got the real killer like Teddy/John G. (cop) said at the end.

Thoughtfully yours,

Spirit Equality

MAY IS "J.U.I.C.E. IS ILL AS HELL" MONTH. GET THIS MAN'S MATERIAL BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY.

"Sincerely"
When I design rhyme in daylight
Or primetime I stay tight
I walk the fine line
between an emcee and a playwright
I represent the underground world, it's a unique scene
There's no record deals, no videos and street teams
I do shows to keep green
I know I'm not a star man,
I'm signed to myself
And my mic's my A&R man
In double nine I guess it's just a sign of the times
The spotlight that I've been looking for is finally mine
I never thought about the dough when I'm designing my rhyme
As long as I can reach my peoples over vinyl I'm fine
It ain't about that
I opened up for cats who ain't as dope as me
While I ripped the flow, they lip synched the show hopelessly
From Heaven I was sent to the game to entertain
I may never pimp that '75 ta cop that blue Range Rover
But even if I don't remain sober
I'ma score double digits
till the fuckin' games over

- J.U.I.C.E. (from '99), "Sincerely"

ps: COMICS ARTIST NEEDED!!!!!!!! INBOX ME!!!!!

http://www.mp3.com/miscellaneousflux -
Just listen, you will believe...

"In the first forty years of the twentieth century, about half of all
blacks who were killed, were killed by law enforcement." - Tim Wise, shocking statistic of the moment

"Smack it up, Flip It, Rub It Down.. OH NOOOO!! - This always intrigued me. What horrible catastrophe was caused by rubbing it down? If he just stopped after flipping it could this tragedy have been avoided?" - jsmooth995, LOL of the month


Peace,

Spirit (Alan)
http://wutangbook.com

  

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ya Setshego
Charter member
4259 posts
Mon Jun-18-01 04:49 AM

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145. "Explanations/Revelations"
In response to Reply # 72


  

          

But we ARE sure that he got the rapist. Teddy recanted the instance in which Leonard killed the second rapist, and Teddy took Leonard's picture after the murder. Teddy goes on further to say that the murder never satisfied Leonard, which is why Teddy helped him concoct MORE John G.'s to kill to satiate his need to avenge his wife. I love the scene where in Leonard's mind his wife is laying w/ her eyes open on his chest, and on the left side of his chest is the tattoo: I DID IT. Then the scene switches away really fast. That was pretty spooky, and revealing, at the same time.


>>by the end, it's all lies
>and deceit and I'm still
>not sure if he ever
>got the real killer like
>Teddy/John G. (cop) said at
>the end.
>
>Thoughtfully yours,
>
>Spirit Equality
>
>MAY IS "J.U.I.C.E. IS ILL AS
>HELL" MONTH. GET THIS MAN'S
>MATERIAL BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY.
>
>
>"Sincerely"
>When I design rhyme in daylight
>
>Or primetime I stay tight
>I walk the fine line
>between an emcee and a playwright
>
>I represent the underground world, it's
>a unique scene
>There's no record deals, no videos
>and street teams
>I do shows to keep green
>
>I know I'm not a star
>man,
>I'm signed to myself
>And my mic's my A&R man
>
>In double nine I guess it's
>just a sign of the
>times
>The spotlight that I've been looking
>for is finally mine
>I never thought about the dough
>when I'm designing my rhyme
>
>As long as I can reach
>my peoples over vinyl I'm
>fine
>It ain't about that
>I opened up for cats who
>ain't as dope as me
>
>While I ripped the flow, they
>lip synched the show hopelessly
>
>From Heaven I was sent to
>the game to entertain
>I may never pimp that '75
>ta cop that blue Range
>Rover
>But even if I don't remain
>sober
>I'ma score double digits
>till the fuckin' games over
>
>- J.U.I.C.E. (from '99), "Sincerely"
>
>ps: COMICS ARTIST NEEDED!!!!!!!! INBOX ME!!!!!
>
>
>http://www.mp3.com/miscellaneousflux -
>Just listen, you will believe...
>
>"In the first forty years of
>the twentieth century, about half
>of all
>blacks who were killed, were killed
>by law enforcement." - Tim
>Wise, shocking statistic of the
>moment
>
>"Smack it up, Flip It, Rub
>It Down.. OH NOOOO!! -
>This always intrigued me. What
>horrible catastrophe was caused by
>rubbing it down? If he
>just stopped after flipping it
>could this tragedy have been
>avoided?" - jsmooth995, LOL of
>the month


"Don't Hate the PLAYA Boy...hate the GAME," Granddad Freeman of the Boondocks(7-11-99)

*Twenty-three percent of women are "autoerotic singles" — they prefer to achieve sexual satisfaction alone(source-bet.com)

*If U have won a Grammy, one of two things are at play: 1. Your shit is TIGHT
2. U are white
-(Me)

"'Cuz U answer the phone 'peace' that means U not a freak?"-The Questions(c) Common


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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Nesta
Charter member
7130 posts
Sun Apr-01-01 01:18 PM

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13. "Interesting, not great!"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I enjoyed this flick even though it was frustrating. I agree that it was a great plot device that was executed very well. However, is the story really intriguing without the plot device? I don't think so. You really gonna tell me that a guy who kills a major drug dealer and wears his clothes and drives his Jag around and nobody but three folks notice or do something?

I mean it kept my interest and whenever it comes out on cable I'll watch it a few times to pick up things I missed. But the device overwhelmed the story to me.


"it is now the mission of myself and a million others to not just stop at downloading music. we will continue to download en masse, but we will physically steal cds if we have to. anything to make sure the record companies go out of business. burn and sell, give away free stuff in front of record stores. anything. they've pissed millions of americans off by spitting in their face. not only will i stop contributing any money i will make sure i steal it in different ways. down with corrupt businessmen." - some genius who goes by the name of mission


"Give it up Biggie is dead, Eminem is what you have" - Paraphrasing Sarah Jones in Surface Transit

***
"I think Brett Favre basically is a selfish guy, Brett Favre goes out there with his gray hair, his Wranglers and gets up when he gets hit. I understand why people like that. But there's another side. He's a selfish guy." - Teddy Atlas

  

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Jekyll_Hyde
Charter member
1670 posts
Sun Apr-01-01 02:31 PM

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14. "RE: Interesting, not great!"
In response to Reply # 13


          

I think you oversimplify the story. I see at as revenge story full of doublecrosses that makes you wonder what's real and what isn't, who's friend and who's foe, etc. In that sense, it's kind of like "The Usual Suspects", but both are definitely different.

I really liked this movie. I agree, it didn't make me jump for joy, but it's definitely a really good movie that I enjoyed on many levels and would recommend to everyone. I think that Nolan deserves a lot of credit for exploring a real physical disability that not many people know about, and turning it into an interesting story. Not only that, but Nolan uses a story structure that could really hinder the story and makes it intriguing while not getting too confused. I was fully expecting to get lost in this movie, but I was surprised at how easy the film was to follow.

This is definitely the best film to come out in 2001 so far. It's a very good piece of filmamkeing.

Peace

  

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spirit
Charter member
21434 posts
Fri May-11-01 01:42 AM

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73. "please"
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

who would notice a particular jag or a particular suit as only belonging to one drug dealer?

no one would report his death to the cops.

so, his man Dodds was out for revenge, but maybe Dodds was his only associate. You think Jimmy's customers care? Nope. The only people who would care are his associates. Jimmy was going to buy drugs, apparently with his own money, when he got capped. No one has an interest in avenging him but his friends. And major drug dealers don't necessarily have a load of friends. Apparently, Dodd was the only friend Jimmy had.

Thoughtfully yours,

Spirit Equality

MAY IS "J.U.I.C.E. IS ILL AS HELL" MONTH. GET THIS MAN'S MATERIAL BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY.

"Sincerely"
When I design rhyme in daylight
Or primetime I stay tight
I walk the fine line
between an emcee and a playwright
I represent the underground world, it's a unique scene
There's no record deals, no videos and street teams
I do shows to keep green
I know I'm not a star man,
I'm signed to myself
And my mic's my A&R man
In double nine I guess it's just a sign of the times
The spotlight that I've been looking for is finally mine
I never thought about the dough when I'm designing my rhyme
As long as I can reach my peoples over vinyl I'm fine
It ain't about that
I opened up for cats who ain't as dope as me
While I ripped the flow, they lip synched the show hopelessly
From Heaven I was sent to the game to entertain
I may never pimp that '75 ta cop that blue Range Rover
But even if I don't remain sober
I'ma score double digits
till the fuckin' games over

- J.U.I.C.E. (from '99), "Sincerely"

ps: COMICS ARTIST NEEDED!!!!!!!! INBOX ME!!!!!

http://www.mp3.com/miscellaneousflux -
Just listen, you will believe...

"In the first forty years of the twentieth century, about half of all
blacks who were killed, were killed by law enforcement." - Tim Wise, shocking statistic of the moment

"Smack it up, Flip It, Rub It Down.. OH NOOOO!! - This always intrigued me. What horrible catastrophe was caused by rubbing it down? If he just stopped after flipping it could this tragedy have been avoided?" - jsmooth995, LOL of the month


Peace,

Spirit (Alan)
http://wutangbook.com

  

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spirit
Charter member
21434 posts
Fri May-11-01 02:02 AM

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74. "RE: please pt II"
In response to Reply # 73


  

          

also, we don't know the timeline.

it could have all taken place in two days (from Jimmy's murder to Lenny leaving town)

DAY ONE

- Jimmy is lured to the factory thinking he will do a drug deal with Teddy
- instead, Lenny is there (who he knows somehow, I haven't figured out why)
- Lenny wacks Jimmy
- Teddy shows up, Lenny and Teddy argue, as Lenny does not believe Jimmy was the rapist because Jimmy knew about Andy
- Lenny throws Teddy's keys away and peels off after buring the picture of a dead Jimmy and writing on the back of teddy's picture "don't believe his lies"
- Lenny goes to the tattoo parlor to get a new tattoo of Teddy's license plate number to fool himself into thinking that Teddy/John G. killed his wife.
- Teddy shows up to the tattoo parlor and tells Lenny that Natalie is tricking him to kill someone who isn't the rapist
- Lenny leaves Teddy, about to write down what teddy said, till he looks on the back of Teddy's picture and sees 'don't believe his lies"
- Lenny jumps out the back window of the tattoo parlor
- Lenny gets back in Jimmy's stolen jag and finds the card (with natalie's bar/work address) in Jimmy's suit pocket saying "Meet me After, Natalie" not realizing that the note was for Jimmy, because it was in Jimmy's suit.
- Lenny goes to the bar to meet Natalie
- he parks out back, Natalie sees the car and the suit he is wearing and initially mistakes Lenny for Jimmy...when she looks in the car, she realizes her mistake

here I get a little confused...because I think you have to assume this next scene...

- I think after this initial meeting, it is unspoken that Lenny goes into the bar to talk to her after he realizes she was natalie
- he presumably tells her about his memory condition

Now I'm back on what actually happened in the movie

- she serves him the drink with the spit in it
- she realizes his condition is real because he drinks it
- Natalie takes him back to her house
- She goads him into beating her up, then leaves (hiding all the pens beforehand). She tells him she will trick him, but he won't remember before she leaves
- Lenny can't find the pens she just hid due to his memory condition. She comes back in and convinces him that Dodd beat her up (to get him to kill Dodd, for some unknown reason)
- Natalie gives Lenny info to find Dodd
- Lenny leaves to kill Dodd, incense because he thinks Dodd beat up Natalie
- As Lenny leaves her house, Teddy is in his car
- Teddy tells him to leave Natalie and move into the Discount Inn

at this point, I am confused again...

- I think Lenny finds the instructions about Dodd on the way to the Discount Inn and heads there
- beats up Dodd, locks him in closet
- finds note about Dodd and notes that it includes something about calling teddy. Calls Teddy
- teddy comes to Dodd's hotel
- Teddy instructs them to get rid of Dodd without killing him (why, I still don't understand)

WE ARE STILL ON THE SAME DAY!

- Lenny then checks into the Discount Inn
- For some reason he convinces himself to get "don't answer the phone" tatted on his arm?
- He won't answer Teddy's calls while in the Discount Inn

At this point, I'm not sure what's going on time-wise, but note that Lenny is wearing the same suit throughout the movie after he kills Jimmy...he has no change of clothes....we are led by this to believe that very little time lapses between killing Jimmy and killing Teddy...

Lenny does note that the tracks from his pick-up are "a few days old" when he returns to the abandoned factory where he killed Jimmy to kill Teddy in the "final scene".

I say all this to say that VERY LITTLE time passed between Lenny killing Jimmy and Lenny killing Teddy, giving Lenny plenty of time to duck any potential vengeance seekers....really, word of Jimmy's death had probably barely gotten out by the time Lenny killed Teddy.

lastpoint: we know that Dodd is still chasing Lenny by the time the movie "ends" if it were told in a linear fashion...and Natalie is still out there....can you say sequel?

Thoughtfully yours,

Spirit Equality

MAY IS "J.U.I.C.E. IS ILL AS HELL" MONTH. GET THIS MAN'S MATERIAL BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY.

"Sincerely"
When I design rhyme in daylight
Or primetime I stay tight
I walk the fine line
between an emcee and a playwright
I represent the underground world, it's a unique scene
There's no record deals, no videos and street teams
I do shows to keep green
I know I'm not a star man,
I'm signed to myself
And my mic's my A&R man
In double nine I guess it's just a sign of the times
The spotlight that I've been looking for is finally mine
I never thought about the dough when I'm designing my rhyme
As long as I can reach my peoples over vinyl I'm fine
It ain't about that
I opened up for cats who ain't as dope as me
While I ripped the flow, they lip synched the show hopelessly
From Heaven I was sent to the game to entertain
I may never pimp that '75 ta cop that blue Range Rover
But even if I don't remain sober
I'ma score double digits
till the fuckin' games over

- J.U.I.C.E. (from '99), "Sincerely"

ps: COMICS ARTIST NEEDED!!!!!!!! INBOX ME!!!!!

http://www.mp3.com/miscellaneousflux -
Just listen, you will believe...

"In the first forty years of the twentieth century, about half of all
blacks who were killed, were killed by law enforcement." - Tim Wise, shocking statistic of the moment

"Smack it up, Flip It, Rub It Down.. OH NOOOO!! - This always intrigued me. What horrible catastrophe was caused by rubbing it down? If he just stopped after flipping it could this tragedy have been avoided?" - jsmooth995, LOL of the month


Peace,

Spirit (Alan)
http://wutangbook.com

  

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UrbanCowgRRL
Charter member
8764 posts
Tue May-15-01 09:32 PM

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92. "i'm still not reading red eye yet (he's too good)"
In response to Reply # 74


  

          

see we DO lose our memories too..ha..cause i remembered a lot of shit you didn't



>
>- instead, Lenny is there (who
>he knows somehow, I haven't
>figured out why)

okay, here i'm assuming it's cause they both did murder his wife or that he had helped w/ that earlier murder (it can't be that simple though..ugh)

>- Teddy shows up, Lenny and
>Teddy argue, as Lenny does
>not believe Jimmy was the
>rapist because Jimmy knew about
>Andy

was andy the dude that lenny helped murder at an unknown earlier time (where the picture was from??)

>- Lenny throws Teddy's keys away
>and peels off after buring
>the picture of a dead
>Jimmy and writing on the
>back of teddy's picture "don't
>believe his lies"

here he also burned the photo that was slipped under the door ( "Answer the Call") of him, with tattoos and blood


>- Teddy shows up to the
>tattoo parlor and tells Lenny
>that Natalie is tricking him
>to kill someone who isn't
>the rapist

Did he really say natalie (she hasn't met him yet , unless she's just THAT good)

>- Lenny leaves Teddy, about to
>write down what teddy said,
>till he looks on the
>back of Teddy's picture and
>sees 'don't believe his lies"


>- Lenny jumps out the back
>window of the tattoo parlor
>
>- Lenny gets back in Jimmy's
>stolen jag and finds the
>card (with natalie's bar/work address)
>in Jimmy's suit pocket saying
>"Meet me After, Natalie" not
>realizing that the note was
>for Jimmy, because it was
>in Jimmy's suit.

nope nope, he pulls the card out in the parlor (not that that really matters, but he's really puzzled)


>- he parks out back, Natalie
>sees the car and the
>suit he is wearing and
>initially mistakes Lenny for Jimmy...when
>she looks in the car,
>she realizes her mistake
>
>here I get a little confused...because
>I think you have to
>assume this next scene...
>
>- I think after this initial
>meeting, it is unspoken that
>Lenny goes into the bar
>to talk to her after
>he realizes she was natalie

there is NO way in the intial meeting he would know or realize that, especially w/ his condition...SHE on the other hand, would immediately know he must have killed her boyfriend (the jag/ the clothes)...and then she puts together that he's the memory loss dude (which we haven't exactly figured out why Jimmy knew Lenny)
>
>- he presumably tells her about
>his memory condition

which she already knows about

*snip*

>- Lenny can't find the pens
>she just hid due to
>his memory condition. She comes
>back in and convinces him
>that Dodd beat her up
>(to get him to kill
>Dodd, for some unknown reason)

Dodd had just said he was going to kill her if she couldn't find the drugs or the money that Jimmy had (presuming SHE had it and knew about his death)..if that was the real reason, she definately thought of a quick solution...evil one too

*snip(

>- As Lenny leaves her house,
>Teddy is in his car

>- Teddy tells him to leave
>Natalie and move into the
>Discount Inn


again, teddy pops up EVERYwhere..he's sneaky and creepy man..BUT, Lenny was already staying in the discount inn...he was in the flannels when he was getting the phone calls talking about sammie...that was in the hotel ..you forgot ALL that scenes at the beginning...I'm pretty sure the phone call flashbacks was the closest to the murder scene we see...then he got the note under the door with the bloody pic w/ tats (still can't place that one), then he goes to the lobby and meets up w/ Teddy (the FIRST picture he gets of him in front of his truck, kinda odd if they HAD known each other) seems like he's good with the pics


>- I think Lenny finds the
>instructions about Dodd on the
>way to the Discount Inn
>and heads there

naw man, Dodd is chasing Lenny, remember that expedition he has no idea why it's following him (Dodd MUST have thought it was Jimmy and they *jimmy and natalie* lied about him not comming back from the deal), so Lenny more or less 'ran' into him

~parks the jag by the dumpster, Dodd walks up, fires into the window

~ the chase scene through the trailer park

~ lenny gets away, looks at note..realizes it's Dodd, has the hotel room number 6, figures he'll beat him there

~knocks on number 9, eventually gets in 6..the bottle, the shower, beats him up, calls teddy

*snip

>- Teddy instructs them to get
>rid of Dodd without killing
>him (why, I still don't
>understand)

me neither

>WE ARE STILL ON THE SAME
>DAY!
>
>- Lenny then checks into the
>Discount Inn

naw, he was ALREADY there..i'm sure of this now..read further

>- For some reason he convinces
>himself to get "don't answer
>the phone" tatted on his
>arm?

that was b4 the scene..we don't know why

BUT..this whole sequence happened before the killing of Jimmy...the tats are the key...

while he's on the phone the B/W scenes are him shaving his leg in his new room (he probably checked in forgetting he already had one)...he's tattoing FACT 5: Drug Dealer...

FACT 6: license plate #, which is after the Jimmy death

while doing the Fact 5 tat, he removes the bandage...won't answer calls,

~tells the desk help coming up and holding calls and keeping it to his face
>- He won't answer Teddy's calls
>while in the Discount Inn

was it for sure teddy? and not Jimmy, remember the calls were leading to teddy right?..teddy was intersecting them (?)

>
>At this point, I'm not sure
>what's going on time-wise, but
>note that Lenny is wearing
>the same suit throughout the
>movie after he kills Jimmy...he
>has no change of clothes....we
>are led by this to
>believe that very little time
>lapses between killing Jimmy and
>killing Teddy...


WRONG,. he's in his flannel in the B/W scenes, same as when he GOES to kill Jimmy

>Lenny does note that the tracks
>from his pick-up are "a
>few days old" when he
>returns to the abandoned factory
>where he killed Jimmy to
>kill Teddy in the "final
>scene".

again, Teddy is trying to convince him that it's been there forever, and shit, Lenny would have no idea it was done earlier that day

>I say all this to say
>that VERY LITTLE time passed
>between Lenny killing Jimmy and
>Lenny killing Teddy, giving Lenny
>plenty of time to duck
>any potential vengeance seekers....really, word
>of Jimmy's death had probably
>barely gotten out by the
>time Lenny killed Teddy.


true..and like I said, second time around..check the tats for time frame, cause in some pics there's more than others,, and the FACT 5: DRUB DEALER is really red in the first scene we are seeing all the tats in, which mean he had just done it, (after shaving his thigh first) so those injected scenes really through you around

>lastpoint: we know that Dodd is
>still chasing Lenny by the
>time the movie "ends" if
>it were told in a
>linear fashion...and Natalie is still
>out there....can you say sequel?

I think Dodd would be pretty scared of Lenny at this point...he did realize he killed Jimmy and found out where he stayed...and shit, natalie..she was the champ of the film...
no sequel..memory check, yes

Much love,
Kyle


much love,
Kyle

Detroit..Let's GO!!! May 12th Dilla Walk for Lupus...Belle Isle...

http://walk.lupusresearch.org/goto/blackeyedskeez

Even a Dollar can HELP..


http://www.myspace.com/jedikyle
http://www.detroitderbygirls.com/

  

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spirit
Charter member
21434 posts
Wed May-16-01 07:57 PM

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107. "wtf?"
In response to Reply # 92


  

          

>see we DO lose our memories
>too..ha..cause i remembered a lot
>of shit you didn't

no you didn't. you didn't remember anything I didn't through the whole post...you just included stuff I didn't bother to mention and got other things wrong...

>
>
>>
>>- instead, Lenny is there (who
>>he knows somehow, I haven't
>>figured out why)
>
>okay, here i'm assuming it's cause
>they both did murder his
>wife or that he had
>helped w/ that earlier murder
>(it can't be that simple
>though..ugh)

here, I didn't forget anything, you just assume something that wasn't shown (and which doesn't make sense...why would Lenny and Jimmy conspire to kill Lenny's wife?)

>>- Teddy shows up, Lenny and
>>Teddy argue, as Lenny does
>>not believe Jimmy was the
>>rapist because Jimmy knew about
>>Andy
>
>was andy the dude that lenny
>helped murder at an unknown
>earlier time (where the picture
>was from??)

now I see who has a horrible memory here...YOU...LOL...Andy was the guy who shared Lenny's condition...who supposedly killed his wife with insulin injections...

>>- Lenny throws Teddy's keys away
>>and peels off after buring
>>the picture of a dead
>>Jimmy and writing on the
>>back of teddy's picture "don't
>>believe his lies"
>
>here he also burned the photo
>that was slipped under the
>door ( "Answer the Call")
>of him, with tattoos and
>blood

I didn't mention this because it wasn't particularly important to the sequence of events.

>>- Teddy shows up to the
>>tattoo parlor and tells Lenny
>>that Natalie is tricking him
>>to kill someone who isn't
>>the rapist
>
>Did he really say natalie (she
>hasn't met him yet ,
>unless she's just THAT good)

You are correct. Teddy did not say Natalie. He just said "someone". One point for you.

>>- Lenny leaves Teddy, about to
>>write down what teddy said,
>>till he looks on the
>>back of Teddy's picture and
>>sees 'don't believe his lies"
>
>
>>- Lenny jumps out the back
>>window of the tattoo parlor
>>
>>- Lenny gets back in Jimmy's
>>stolen jag and finds the
>>card (with natalie's bar/work address)
>>in Jimmy's suit pocket saying
>>"Meet me After, Natalie" not
>>realizing that the note was
>>for Jimmy, because it was
>>in Jimmy's suit.
>
>nope nope, he pulls the card
>out in the parlor (not
>that that really matters, but
>he's really puzzled)

You may have me here, but I am almost certain he pulled it out while driving the car. Again, not that it matters when he pulled the card/coaster out.

>>- he parks out back, Natalie
>>sees the car and the
>>suit he is wearing and
>>initially mistakes Lenny for Jimmy...when
>>she looks in the car,
>>she realizes her mistake
>>
>>here I get a little confused...because
>>I think you have to
>>assume this next scene...
>>
>>- I think after this initial
>>meeting, it is unspoken that
>>Lenny goes into the bar
>>to talk to her after
>>he realizes she was natalie
>
>there is NO way in the
>intial meeting he would know
>or realize that, especially w/
>his condition...

his condition has nothing to do with his ability to recognize gender...he goes somewhere thinking he's supposed to meet a woman, a woman (Natalie) looks in his car like she recognizes him, then suddenly walks off, he assumes the woman was Natalie...he walks in the bar, she's the only woman in there, his suspicion is confirmed. Easy.

SHE on the other
>hand, would immediately know he
>must have killed her boyfriend
>(the jag/ the clothes)...and then
>she puts together that he's
>the memory loss dude (which
>we haven't exactly figured out
>why Jimmy knew Lenny)

Right.

>>- he presumably tells her about
>>his memory condition
>
>which she already knows about
>
>*snip*
>
>>- Lenny can't find the pens
>>she just hid due to
>>his memory condition. She comes
>>back in and convinces him
>>that Dodd beat her up
>>(to get him to kill
>>Dodd, for some unknown reason)
>
>Dodd had just said he was
>going to kill her if
>she couldn't find the
>drugs or the money that
>Jimmy had (presuming SHE had
>it and knew about his
>death)..if that was the real
>reason, she definately thought of
>a quick solution...evil one too

Right. One point for you.

>
>*snip(
>
>>- As Lenny leaves her house,
>>Teddy is in his car
>
>>- Teddy tells him to leave
>>Natalie and move into the
>>Discount Inn
>
>
>again, teddy pops up EVERYwhere..he's sneaky
>and creepy man..BUT, Lenny was
>already staying in the discount
>inn...he was in the flannels
>when he was getting the
>phone calls talking about sammie...
>that
>was in the hotel ..you
>forgot ALL that scenes at
>the beginning...

I didn't forget that, I've seen the movie twice...the black and white scenes are 1/3 of the movie...the reason why I thought it was a different hotel was because Teddy suggests that Lenny stay in the Discount Inn like it was a new place...it is completely probable, however, that Teddy suggested that Lenny go back to a motel he was already staying in pre-Natalie.

I'm pretty sure the
>phone call flashbacks was the
>closest to the murder scene
>we see...then he got the
>note under the door with
>the bloody pic w/ tats
>(still can't place that one),
>then he goes to the
>lobby and meets up w/
>Teddy (the FIRST picture he
>gets of him in front
>of his truck, kinda odd
>if they HAD known each
>other) seems like he's good
>with the pics

Hmm. Well, if Lenny really did kill the rapist as Teddy says, he apparently burned all pictures of that incident...maybe his older Teddy pictures were burned with those.

>>- I think Lenny finds the
>>instructions about Dodd on the
>>way to the Discount Inn
>>and heads there
>
>naw man, Dodd is chasing Lenny,
>remember that expedition he has
>no idea why it's following
>him (Dodd MUST have thought
>it was Jimmy and they
>*jimmy and natalie* lied about
>him not comming back from
>the deal), so Lenny more
>or less 'ran' into him

you clipped what I said out of context, so I forgot (Memento) what I was trying to say above...I think I was referring to when Lenny was in the car AFTER being chased by Dodd and headed to Dodd's hotel room to get the jump on him. I may have gotten confused. It's easy to pick at the timeline ater I go through the trouble of building it, sucker! LOL.

>~parks the jag by the dumpster,
>Dodd walks up, fires into
>the window
>
>~ the chase scene through the
>trailer park

I remember all this shit. It wasn't really worth mentioning. Come on. I'd have to be an amnesiac to forget all of this.

>>- Teddy instructs them to get
>>rid of Dodd without killing
>>him (why, I still don't
>>understand)
>
>me neither
>
>>WE ARE STILL ON THE SAME
>>DAY!
>>
>>- Lenny then checks into the
>>Discount Inn
>
>naw, he was ALREADY there..i'm sure
>of this now..read further

Not sure whether b&w scenes were at Discount Inn or if Teddy sent him to a new motel. I'm inclined to think that given his explanation that Jimmy was dealing out of the motel that Lenny was there the whole time.

Maybe that explains how Jimmy knew him....Teddy said something about the hotel clerk calling him (Teddy?) when he saw Lenny photgraphing the sign out front...if Jimmy was dealing out of that motel, maybe the motel clerk told Jimmy too about the weird guy with no memory (?).

>>- For some reason he convinces
>>himself to get "don't answer
>>the phone" tatted on his
>>arm?
>
>that was b4 the scene..we don't
>know why
>
>BUT..this whole sequence happened before the
>killing of Jimmy...the tats are
>the key...
>
>while he's on the phone the
>B/W scenes are him shaving
>his leg in his new
>room (he probably checked in
>forgetting he already had one)...he's
>tattoing FACT 5: Drug Dealer...
>
>
>FACT 6: license plate #,
> which is after the
>Jimmy death
>
>while doing the Fact 5 tat,
>he removes the bandage...won't answer
>calls,
>
>~tells the desk help coming up
>and holding calls and keeping
>it to his face
>>- He won't answer Teddy's calls
>>while in the Discount Inn
>
>was it for sure teddy? and
>not Jimmy, remember the calls
>were leading to teddy right?..teddy
>was intersecting them (?)

Jimmy? Why would Jimmy be calling Lenny impersonating a cop?

>>At this point, I'm not sure
>>what's going on time-wise, but
>>note that Lenny is wearing
>>the same suit throughout the
>>movie after he kills Jimmy...he
>>has no change of clothes....we
>>are led by this to
>>believe that very little time
>>lapses between killing Jimmy and
>>killing Teddy...
>
>
>WRONG,. he's in his flannel in
>the B/W scenes, same as
>when he GOES to kill
>Jimmy

DUH. Reading is fundamental. I said he wears the same suit for every scene AFTER he kills Jimmy. You're so eager to prove me wrong that you stopped reading properly.

>>Lenny does note that the tracks
>>from his pick-up are "a
>>few days old" when he
>>returns to the abandoned factory
>>where he killed Jimmy to
>>kill Teddy in the "final
>>scene".
>
>again, Teddy is trying to convince
>him that it's been there
>forever, and shit, Lenny would
>have no idea it was
>done earlier that day

He would know by the tracks, silly. Maybe not exactly, but we're assuming that Lenny knows his shit and tracks a few days old look different from tracks a few hours old.

>>I say all this to say
>>that VERY LITTLE time passed
>>between Lenny killing Jimmy and
>>Lenny killing Teddy, giving Lenny
>>plenty of time to duck
>>any potential vengeance seekers....really, word
>>of Jimmy's death had probably
>>barely gotten out by the
>>time Lenny killed Teddy.
>
>
>true..and like I said, second time
>around..

second time around? already seen the flick twice.

check the tats for time
>frame, cause in some pics
>there's more than others,, and
>the FACT 5: DRUB DEALER
>is really red in the
>first scene we are seeing
>all the tats in, which
>mean he had just done
>it, (after shaving his thigh
>first) so those injected scenes
>really through you around

so?

why is the sequence of the tats important?

>>lastpoint: we know that Dodd is
>>still chasing Lenny by the
>>time the movie "ends" if
>>it were told in a
>>linear fashion...and Natalie is still
>>out there....can you say sequel?
>
>I think Dodd would be pretty
>scared of Lenny at this
>point...

PLEASE.

Dodd is a professional killer (dude carries around a bag with duct tape in it, for pete's sake). he ain't scared of shit.

he did realize he killed
>Jimmy and found out where
>he stayed...and shit, natalie..she was
>the champ of the film...
>
>no sequel..memory check, yes

the reasons you gave aren't the reasons why there won't be a sequel. you just enjoy disagreeing with people, eh?

Thoughtfully yours,

Spirit Equality

MAY IS "J.U.I.C.E. IS ILL AS HELL" MONTH. GET THIS MAN'S MATERIAL BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY.

"Sincerely"
When I design rhyme in daylight
Or primetime I stay tight
I walk the fine line
between an emcee and a playwright
I represent the underground world, it's a unique scene
There's no record deals, no videos and street teams
I do shows to keep green
I know I'm not a star man,
I'm signed to myself
And my mic's my A&R man
In double nine I guess it's just a sign of the times
The spotlight that I've been looking for is finally mine
I never thought about the dough when I'm designing my rhyme
As long as I can reach my peoples over vinyl I'm fine
It ain't about that
I opened up for cats who ain't as dope as me
While I ripped the flow, they lip synched the show hopelessly
From Heaven I was sent to the game to entertain
I may never pimp that '75 ta cop that blue Range Rover
But even if I don't remain sober
I'ma score double digits
till the fuckin' games over

- J.U.I.C.E. (from '99), "Sincerely"

ps: COMICS ARTIST NEEDED!!!!!!!! INBOX ME!!!!!

http://www.mp3.com/miscellaneousflux -
Just listen, you will believe...

"In the first forty years of the twentieth century, about half of all
blacks who were killed, were killed by law enforcement." - Tim Wise, shocking statistic of the moment

"Smack it up, Flip It, Rub It Down.. OH NOOOO!! - This always intrigued me. What horrible catastrophe was caused by rubbing it down? If he just stopped after flipping it could this tragedy have been avoided?" - jsmooth995, LOL of the month


Peace,

Spirit (Alan)
http://wutangbook.com

  

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UrbanCowgRRL
Charter member
8764 posts
Tue May-22-01 10:34 AM

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118. "defensive much??"
In response to Reply # 107


  

          

>>see we DO lose our memories
>>too..ha..cause i remembered a lot
>>of shit you didn't
>
>no you didn't. you didn't remember
>anything I didn't through the
>whole post...you just included stuff
>I didn't bother to mention
>and got other things wrong...

now you made it a game of points..but i didn't know anything..how'd i score points where you questioned things then o genius...


>
>>>- Teddy shows up, Lenny and
>>>Teddy argue, as Lenny does
>>>not believe Jimmy was the
>>>rapist because Jimmy knew about
>>>Andy
>>
>>was andy the dude that lenny
>>helped murder at an unknown
>>earlier time (where the picture
>>was from??)
>
>now I see who has a
>horrible memory here...YOU...LOL...Andy was the
>guy who shared Lenny's condition...who
>supposedly killed his wife with
>insulin injections...


HAHAHA...forget it man...if you didn't remember that his name was SAMMIE JENKIS after seeing the movie twice..through all the shots of the tattoo and him saying his name through the whole movie, i'm through with you and your lame memory!
important to the


>You may have me here, but
>I am almost certain he
>pulled it out while driving
>the car. Again, not that
>it matters when he pulled
>the card/coaster out.

no it doesn't..but he does it in the parlor





>
>I didn't forget that, I've seen
>the movie twice...the black and
>white scenes are 1/3 of
>the movie...the reason why I
>thought it was a different
>hotel was because Teddy suggests
>that Lenny stay in the
>Discount Inn like it was
>a new place...it is completely
>probable, however, that Teddy suggested
>that Lenny go back to
>a motel he was already
>staying in pre-Natalie.

right, and the desk man said he had been there for a 'few' weeks



>
>you clipped what I said out
>of context, so I forgot
>(Memento) what I was trying
>to say above...I think I
>was referring to when Lenny
>was in the car AFTER
>being chased by Dodd and
>headed to Dodd's hotel room
>to get the jump on
>him. I may have gotten
>confused. It's easy to pick
>at the timeline ater I
>go through the trouble of
>building it, sucker! LOL.


i wasn't pickin' you apart or trying to point out mistakes..i was just having fun trying to figure it out..(but it was funny how wrong you were alot of the time, and now you're getting mad )
>
>Not sure whether b&w scenes were
>at Discount Inn or if
>Teddy sent him to a
>new motel. I'm inclined to
>think that given his explanation
>that Jimmy was dealing out
>of the motel that Lenny
>was there the whole time.

yes, it was his 'second' room..the one he got the calls in and did the shaving..(remember the line "so i got two rooms in this shit hole, when the desk guy opened the wrong door cause he forgot his key)

>
>Maybe that explains how Jimmy knew
>him....Teddy said something about the
>hotel clerk calling him (Teddy?)
>when he saw Lenny photgraphing
>the sign out front...if Jimmy
>was dealing out of that
>motel, maybe the motel clerk
>told Jimmy too about the
>weird guy with no memory
>(?).


>
>Jimmy? Why would Jimmy be calling
>Lenny impersonating a cop?

why not?...to get teddy killed and out of the loop...


. You're so eager
>to prove me wrong that
>you stopped reading properly.

no, it's just easy

>
>second time around? already seen the
>flick twice.

maybe you should see it a third time
>
>
>why is the sequence of the
>tats important?

in a movie in an ill-logical order..it places order on things...that's all...



>
>the reasons you gave aren't the
>reasons why there won't be
>a sequel. you just enjoy
>disagreeing with people, eh?

no i'm just a smart ass...and you're the lawyer?


Much love,
Kyle

go vote for me, cause i'm extreme and deserve to be on TV..oh yeah, and i'll buy tara something too

http://bluetorch.tv/host/voteforme.asp?id=41472

****************************************
let ang be a rock star! no more moderating for her!

Need Posting help...Go here----->http://www.okayplayer.com/guidelines.html

Want that incredible deep post of yours or your friends archived, email me through the boards...Or use the handy private message button
****************************************

much love,
Kyle

Detroit..Let's GO!!! May 12th Dilla Walk for Lupus...Belle Isle...

http://walk.lupusresearch.org/goto/blackeyedskeez

Even a Dollar can HELP..


http://www.myspace.com/jedikyle
http://www.detroitderbygirls.com/

  

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illnes
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6363 posts
Mon May-28-01 01:51 PM

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126. "the jag (spoilers ahead!)"
In response to Reply # 73


  

          

did you notice that how clean the car was didn't depend on time? One scene it'd be dirty, then he'd go back to an earlier point, and it'd be clean, but then he'd go back to an even earlier point and it was dirty again?

and here's something that my friend noticed but i didn't: In the scene where sammy jenkins is sitting in the hospital, his view follows people. One of those people walks in front of the camera for a moment, and when he moves away, Sammy becomes Lenny for a moment. This was before we realized that much of sammy's story wasn't only his, but Lenny's as well.

Peace,
Illnes

Shuggie Otis "Inspiration Information" CD reissue....in stores NOW.
(Go buy a copy)

"No rest, homicidal dreams/ my cell mate, all he do is scream/ out loud how he wants to go home/ that's funny, I'm here all alone/ locked, in a single cell/ his back's bleeding, he's cold as hell/ and I'm hoping, they turn on some heat/ I call the c.o. to bring some extra sheets/ where'd he go he walk through walls/ run halls I pray teach me/ they don't see him/ as a health try to reach me/ I say 'please see, how he feels'/ they say 'he's all right, but he's not real.'"
-MF Grimm

  

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jigga
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31583 posts
Tue May-29-01 06:32 AM

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128. "RE: the jag (spoilers ahead!)"
In response to Reply # 126


  

          

The Jag looked dirty 2 me @ all times

Screw you guys...I'm goin home -Cartman

The mother of civilization, wants 2 know my occupation, home location and means of transportation. The correct combination unlocks her placenta. Ive got a cellular phone w/ a rubba antenna, own a 3 story house, drive a 4 door Ac, favorite song of all time, Mobb Deeps hit it from the back...then jet. -Ras Kass

...she said, "Do you have a car? Is your shit up 2 par?" Damn! a nigga need a resume just sittin at tha bar! -Ras Kass

Cuz bitches are like flies(why)they attract 2 the best shit. -Ras Kass

Cowards make a little cheese, then enlarge artificially, like Pamela Anderson Lee's double D's, please! I'm bangin from Belize 2 Tel Aviv in tha Red Sea racin Saddam Hussien on Kawasaki jet skies. -Ras Kass

18 willin rednecks, sendin me death threats, cuz their niece fantasize about wet sex, when I'm in her headsets. -Opio from Souls of Mischief

Tryin 2 do all I can do in this car...her mom's Jaguar -A-plus from Souls of Mischief

You think you're able 2 label the Hiero sound? You still havent found a comparable variable -Del

You live on the edge? I live on the San Andreas. -Evidence

I AINT GOT TIME 4 NO JIBBA JABBA!!!-Mr.T





  

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illnes
Charter member
6363 posts
Sun Jun-03-01 12:38 PM

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132. "RE: the jag (spoilers ahead!)"
In response to Reply # 128


  

          

It was pretty dirty all the time, but sometimes much moreso than other times.

Peace,
Illnes

Shuggie Otis "Inspiration Information" CD reissue....in stores NOW.
(Go buy a copy)

"No rest, homicidal dreams/ my cell mate, all he do is scream/ out loud how he wants to go home/ that's funny, I'm here all alone/ locked, in a single cell/ his back's bleeding, he's cold as hell/ and I'm hoping, they turn on some heat/ I call the c.o. to bring some extra sheets/ where'd he go he walk through walls/ run halls I pray teach me/ they don't see him/ as a health try to reach me/ I say 'please see, how he feels'/ they say 'he's all right, but he's not real.'"
-MF Grimm

  

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REDeye
Charter member
6598 posts
Sun Apr-01-01 07:22 PM

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15. "Once again..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

(yes, there are spoilers here.)

I think most (if not all) of you are missing the point. Just like that long ass Magnolia thread a while back.

Yes it's a gimmick (2 gimmick, actually) movie. Yes, the plot is about solving a murder mystery. Yes, it's a cool, mind-bending puzzle to try to figure out.

But...

The movie is NOT about who killed his wife or whether or not he finds the killer or gets revenge. That's all stuff to keep you occupied.

This is a deft and thorough meditation on memory and perception. This an exploration into what it means to remember something, and how those memories create and shape who we are.

On that level, this film is miles ahead of much of what passes for filmmaking in this country. It's not perfect. Basing a film on gimmicks is questionable. It drags for just a bit in the middle. As one review I read (after I saw it, mind you) pointed out, the filmmaker plays fast and loose with just how long this guy's memory lasts. But as an existential forum, it is nothing short of brilliant.

Don't believe me? Ask yourself, why didn't the film go all the way back to the murder? Ask yourself why you don't even find out how he got to LA from SF? Or how he even found out about "John G" in the first place? Or, just ask yourself, why show the end of a murder investigation without even showing the murder? They hint at it, but all from his flawed perspective - which is exactly the point.

Read the interview with the director that I put up before.
http://www.okayplayer.com/dcforum/concert/2891.html

Please. Don't get sidetracked, like many did with Magnolia. That movie wasn't about what was in the kid's rap or what all the 8's and 2's stood for. And Memento isn't about who Teddy really was or was his wife really diabetic.

Yes, all those things had me intrigued too. It all made for a supremely entertaining puzzle. I plan to see it again, to understand all that stuff better.

But who wants to talk what it means to remember? Who wants to have a discussion about conditioning and false memory?

It's a very entertaining movie, and I guess you want to enjoy it just on that level, that's fine. But there is so much more there if you want to dig just a little deeper.

Geez. People ask for intelligent movies, movies about ideas as well as entertainment. (Okay, not everyone, but I ask for them!) Well, here one is. Don't miss it.

RED

"Instead of just sitting around, why
don't you kids go out and co-opt
some black culture?"
© a New Yorker cartoon

RED
http://arrena.blogspot.com

  

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thebigfunk
Charter member
10469 posts
Mon Apr-02-01 02:39 AM

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16. "Good post"
In response to Reply # 15


          

I think gimmicks are great.

Actually, I saw it twice now - I saw it two nights in a row it was so damn good

The first time, the gimmick got me. I was fascinated with trying to keep up, trying not to lose my head - trying not become frustrated like Leonard.

And it's a great feeling in a way. I don't think I've ever seen a movie where, when the lights come up, EVERYONE in the audience is talking about the movie, giving their take on what they think happened: "Is there a Sammy Jenkins at all? Was his wife diabetic? Did he really kill his wife, or is that cop just screwing him? etc." I think it's a very interactive movie.

The second time around, though, I started thinking more about what you're talking about - memory and its role in our lives. How it makes us the individual we are. When we talk about memory, we normally talk about experience, don't we? But in Leonard's case, we can't talk about experience. Because experience doesn't shape shit for him - at this point, nothing can shape him.

Leonard is the end result of becoming numb to influence, in a way. Because he's to easily manipulated, he has no defenses. Memory as a defense - that's a pretty intense idea.

The movie definitely examines memory in many, many ways. Very cool.

-thebigfunk
"And you may ask yourself... what is that beautiful house?
And you may ask yourself... where does that highway go?
And you may ask yourself... Am I right? Am I wrong?
And you may ask yourself... MY GOD! WHAT HAVE I DONE!?!" - "Once In A Lifetime" - Talking Heads

"Trouble in transit/got through the roadblock/we blended with the crowd
We got computer/we're tapping phone lines/I know that ain't allowed
We dress like students/we dress like housewives/or in a suit and a tie
I changed my hairstyle/so many times now/I don't know what I look like!
You make me shiver/I feel so tender/we make a pretty good team
Don't get exhausted/I'll do some driving/you ought to get some sleep
Get you instructions/follow directions/then you should change your address
Maybe tomorrow/Maybe the next day/Whatever you think is best
Burned all my notebooks/What good are notebooks?/They won't help me survive...
My chest is aching/Burns like a furnace/The burning keeps me alive..." - "Life During Wartime" - Talking Heads

-thebigfunk

~ i could still snort you under the table ~

  

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Nesta
Charter member
7130 posts
Mon Apr-02-01 04:43 AM

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18. "Like I said"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

Very intersting movie. And the perception of how his memory shaped his behavior is what i found to be the most interesting thing as the movie played out. But I just have a problem with a movie revovled around two gimmicks, albeit it very clever gimmicks.

It's like special efects. A good story is a good story. This is a good story not a great story. It could be argued that without the gimmicks the point wouldn't have been made as effectively. Perhaps, but I like think that it could be. But this is a very intellignet movie that at least engages the audience above a 3rd grade level.


Frank: Many Christmases ago, I went to buy a doll for my son. I reached for the last one they had -- but so did another man. As I rained blows upon him, I realized there had to be another way.
Kramer: What happened to the doll?
Frank: It was destroyed. But out of that, a new holiday was born -- a Festivus for the rest of us!
Frank: "I got a lot of problems with you people! And now you're gonna hear about it!"


"it is now the mission of myself and a million others to not just stop at downloading music. we will continue to download en masse, but we will physically steal cds if we have to. anything to make sure the record companies go out of business. burn and sell, give away free stuff in front of record stores. anything. they've pissed millions of americans off by spitting in their face. not only will i stop contributing any money i will make sure i steal it in different ways. down with corrupt businessmen." - some genius who goes by the name of mission


"Give it up Biggie is dead, Eminem is what you have" - Paraphrasing Sarah Jones in Surface Transit

***
"I think Brett Favre basically is a selfish guy, Brett Favre goes out there with his gray hair, his Wranglers and gets up when he gets hit. I understand why people like that. But there's another side. He's a selfish guy." - Teddy Atlas

  

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REDeye
Charter member
6598 posts
Mon Apr-02-01 05:44 AM

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20. "Fair enough"
In response to Reply # 18


          

I wondered about those things as well. Specifically, why did he need to change his clothes?

But to me, the fact that so many details are left out points to the fact that those details are beside point.

For Lenny, and for the audience, all that matters is the here and now.

Existentialism at its best.

You want to have the story without the gimmicks? Read "Crime and Punishment."

RED

"Instead of just sitting around, why
don't you kids go out and co-opt
some black culture?"
© a New Yorker cartoon

RED
http://arrena.blogspot.com

  

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Jekyll_Hyde
Charter member
1670 posts
Mon Apr-02-01 05:01 AM

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19. "Absolutely right"
In response to Reply # 15


          

The two gimmicks are an intersting way of exploring the limits of memory. There were many serious questions asked in this movie. It's not just a story. It makes you think about yourself. Not too many movies do that these days. The last one I saw that did was "Requiem for a Dream".

I especially love when Leonard talks about how memory is flawed and how it can change your perception, and about how facts are what counts. Everything he says at the end of the movie was cool too. I don't want to spoil anything. Those who saw it know what I'm talking about.

Peace

  

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native_son
Charter member
776 posts
Mon Apr-02-01 05:47 AM

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21. "RE: Once again..."
In response to Reply # 15


          

i think the film overcame its gimmicks and plot devices by ending on an open note. Many folks i have talked to were disappointed because they felt let down by the ending, they felt the film had a great creschendo but no climax.

i enjoyed the ending for its kafka-esque circularity and lack of resolution, it left the film as a madhouse we are all trapped in. i actually enjoyed how he embraced his condition and the lies as a necessary evil. i felt by leaving the ending open the story became less a tale about a guy with a memory problem, and more about how we all are complicit in these type of lies and selective memory, how we to a lesser degree compose ourselves through the same processes. i found the experience vertiginous and indicting because of this lack of closure.

or maybe i just have a guilty conscience.


native son

  

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REDeye
Charter member
6598 posts
Mon Apr-02-01 06:05 AM

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22. "Yep (bigtime spoilers!)"
In response to Reply # 21


          

exactly.

But think about it. It had a huge climax, just not the type of climax people are used to.

The climax, and what the whole movie comes down to, is when he gets in the truck and "decides" to make Teddy his "John G." His planting the license plate info in his mind is a deliberate act of shaping his own memory. That simple act right there is what, more than anything, casts doubt on the everything he did. Yes, there are questionable things all along. But right there, it goes from your questioning your own perception to your questioning HIS perception.

That moment more than anything turns the movie from a simple gimmick to an indictment of the veracity of memory. He kills this guy based solely on a "fact" he himself planted in a moment of anger.

That doesn't mean Teddy wasn't the right guy. And it sure doesn't mean Teddy didn't deserve to die, the weasel bastard.

But whether or not Teddy was the guy he was looking for isn't the point.

In fact, the plot isn't about trying to find out who his wife's murderer was. It's about finding out why he killed Teddy. And in that one moment, you find out.

Climax.

End of movie.

RED

"Instead of just sitting around, why
don't you kids go out and co-opt
some black culture?"
© a New Yorker cartoon

RED
http://arrena.blogspot.com

  

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native_son
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776 posts
Mon Apr-02-01 06:43 AM

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23. "RE: Yep (bigtime spoilers!)"
In response to Reply # 22


          

word.

the film concocted a masterful disconnect between the machinations of leonards mind(finding the murderer of his wife) and what he was really doing(hunting down one in a line of imaginary John G.). The viewer can not discern which side is true, till, of course, the climax you mentioned above. After which one realizes that he was a pawn between teddy and carrie ann moss. Carrie ann moss' manipulations were great, particularly the scene when she goades leonard into hittin her. Even still one is not entirely sure if his murdering of teddy was a necessary drive to give him memory and grounding or if he was being taken advantage of by opportunists, probably both.

the film briefly alluded to this question:
what does his lack of memory say about fear?


native son

  

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jigga
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31583 posts
Tue Apr-10-01 08:41 AM

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34. "RE: Agree yet disaree"
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

But whether or not Teddy was
>the guy he was looking
>for isn't the point.
>
>In fact, the plot isn't about
>trying to find out who
>his wife's murderer was. It's
>about finding out why he
>killed Teddy. And in that
>one moment, you find out.

I think the majority of people who saw the flick did want 2 find out who really murdered his wife and why? And maybe if I see it a couple more times I can figure it out. Then again you never really know when and if Teddy and Trinity are telling him the truth and what "really" happened from Lennys point of view becuz hes forgotton everything up 2 that point. I'm seriously praying 4 the directors commentary on DVD when it gets released so I can understand the flick 2 its fullest.

Screw you guys...I'm goin home -Cartman

The mother of civilization, wants 2 know my occupation, home location and means of transportation. The correct combination unlocks her placenta. Ive got a cellular phone w/ a rubba antenna, own a 3 story house, drive a 4 door Ac, favorite song of all time, Mobb Deeps hit it from the back...then jet. -Ras Kass

...she said, "Do you have a car? Is your shit up 2 par?" Damn! a nigga need a resume just sittin at tha bar! -Ras Kass

Cuz bitches are like flies(why)they attract 2 the best shit. -Ras Kass

Cowards make a little cheese, then enlarge artificially, like Pamela Anderson Lee's double D's, please! I'm bangin from Belize 2 Tel Aviv in tha Red Sea racin Saddam Hussien on Kawasaki jet skies. -Ras Kass

18 willin rednecks, sendin me death threats, cuz their niece fantasize about wet sex, when I'm in her headsets. -Opio from Souls of Mischief

Tryin 2 do all I can do in this car...her mom's Jaguar -A-plus from Souls of Mischief

You think you're able 2 label the Hiero sound? You still havent found a comparable variable -Del

You live on the edge? I live on the San Andreas. -Evidence

I AINT GOT TIME 4 NO JIBBA JABBA!!!-Mr.T





  

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REDeye
Charter member
6598 posts
Tue Apr-10-01 09:43 AM

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37. "Yeah, I'd like to know too"
In response to Reply # 34


          

>I think the majority of people
>who saw the flick did
>want 2 find out who
>really murdered his wife and
>why?

But that's not what the movie is about.


RED

"Instead of just sitting around, why
don't you kids go out and co-opt
some black culture?"
© a New Yorker cartoon

RED
http://arrena.blogspot.com

  

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Whanoon
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2431 posts
Mon Apr-23-01 04:44 AM

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64. "No one did"
In response to Reply # 34


          

She survived, which is what sent the spiral of confusion over what to believe in Lenny's selected patches of memory.

The relevance of the Sammy Hagar (sp) story? Did that mirror his own relationship?

But like RED said, that's not really the point of the movie, although it is excellent entertainment.



"It's terrible sometimes, inside, that's what's the trouble. You walk these streets, black and funky and cold, and there's not really a living ass to talk to, and there's nothing shaking, and there's no way of getting it out-that storm inside. You can't talk it and you can't make love with it, and when you finally try to get with it and play it, you realize nobody's listening. So you've got to listen. You got to find a way to listen."- James Baldwin "Sonny's Blues"

"I wish to defecate"-Company man

"Power concedes nothing without demand. It never has and it never will."- Frederick Douglass

  

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Jekyll_Hyde
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1670 posts
Mon Apr-23-01 05:51 AM

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65. "Sammy Hagar?"
In response to Reply # 64


          

Isn't he in an old rock band or something?

LOL.

Peace

  

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illnes
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6363 posts
Thu Jun-28-01 07:04 AM

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158. "RE: No one did"
In response to Reply # 64


  

          

>She survived, which is what sent
>the spiral of confusion over
>what to believe in Lenny's
>selected patches of memory.

She survived until he gave her a triple dose of insulin.

>The relevance of the Sammy Hagar
>(sp) story? Did that
>mirror his own relationship?

He is Sammy Jenkins, I'm not sure that Jenkins ever really existed. Those Jenkins stories were mainly him. Check the memento website, it says that Leonard escaped from a mental hospital a few months ago, and then the movie occurred. The scene with Jenkins in the hospital, in the last second, Jenkins turns into Leonard. (yea, Sammy Hagar is a rock singer.)


>"It's terrible sometimes, inside, that's what's
>the trouble. You walk
>these streets, black and funky

Gorillaz calls, and I'm off.

Shuggie Otis "Inspiration Information" CD reissue....in stores NOW.
(Go buy a copy)

"Does many change rappers?" - Liferowboys

  

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SankofaII
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30751 posts
Sat Apr-21-01 03:46 PM

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63. "good shit..."
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

>exactly.
>
>But think about it. It had
>a huge climax, just not
>the type of climax people
>are used to.
this is QUITE true..i saw it today and folk were VERRRY PISSED about the ending....

>The climax, and what the whole
>movie comes down to, is
>when he gets in the
>truck and "decides" to make
>Teddy his "John G." His
>planting the license plate info
>in his mind is a
>deliberate act of shaping his
>own memory. That simple act
>right there is what, more
>than anything, casts doubt on
>the everything he did. Yes,
>there are questionable things all
>along. But right there, it
>goes from your questioning your
>own perception to your questioning
>HIS perception.
THIS is what i loved most about MEMENTO...this one final act by leonard brought the ENTIRE film into perspective and focus for me...i wasn't confused by the film being told in reverse...it was the simple fact that not only was leonard's perception being questioned, MINE was being question vis a vis did i believe leonard? did i believe what my instincts were telling me about leonard? did i believe what my instincts were telling me about leonard's perception of himself? the beauty of the film was realizing what those perceptions were...or IF they even existed..

>That moment more than anything turns
>the movie from a simple
>gimmick to an indictment of
>the veracity of memory. He
>kills this guy based solely
>on a "fact" he himself
>planted in a moment of
>anger.
agreed...

>That doesn't mean Teddy wasn't the
>right guy. And it sure
>doesn't mean Teddy didn't deserve
>to die, the weasel bastard.
joe pantaliano is the SHIT! this role proved it!
>
>But whether or not Teddy was
>the guy he was looking
>for isn't the point.

>In fact, the plot isn't about
>trying to find out who
>his wife's murderer was. It's
>about finding out why he
>killed Teddy. And in that
>one moment, you find out.
eg-zack-lee! check your inbox, Red!
RC

"Sex posts are dumb unless they are funny. Otherwise, you are just trying to be cool."
--Steve

"Fuck a love connection! Can I get a dick connection..Im in need"
--My best friend

"J-Lo/Jennie Lo-Lo..Who cares? the only thing acting on her is her average sized breasts and SUPPOSEDLY big ass."
--Papa Canty

"Will somebody please tell Hollywood that N'bushe Wright needs more work! Damn, she talented as hell"
--Me

Get Out the Room
https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/get-out-the-room/id525657893

Some of y'all need this in your life: http://www.psychology.com

  

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UrbanCowgRRL
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8764 posts
Tue May-15-01 09:54 PM

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95. "shit"
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

i love reading okayplayers..i came home from this movie with NOBODY to discuss it with (yes, i *do* see around the gimmicks but i still like them), and damn, y'all are breaking down every question/ thought that ran through my head...

that part KILLED me, he was so good and disproving all the other tats where indeed fact and that it's all fact, and how memory can change the color of a room, and eyewitness ain't shit..than BAM, Fact 6: liscense plate # = john G

(god, how DID he find out john G in the first place)

then you're like damn, that's insane, well no shit natalie had his info, she was probably LOVING it (the cafe scene)

Much love,
Kyle

go vote for me, cause i'm extreme and deserve to be on TV..oh yeah, and i'll buy tara something too

http://bluetorch.tv/host/voteforme.asp?id=41472

****************************************
let ang be a rock star! no more moderating for her!

Need Posting help...Go here----->http://www.okayplayer.com/guidelines.html

Want that incredible deep post of yours or your friends archived, email me through the boards...Or use the handy private message button
****************************************

much love,
Kyle

Detroit..Let's GO!!! May 12th Dilla Walk for Lupus...Belle Isle...

http://walk.lupusresearch.org/goto/blackeyedskeez

Even a Dollar can HELP..


http://www.myspace.com/jedikyle
http://www.detroitderbygirls.com/

  

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ya Setshego
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4259 posts
Sun Jun-17-01 12:23 PM

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142. "and that reason is what?"
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

>>It's
>about finding out why he
>killed Teddy. And in that
>one moment, you find out.
>
>
>Climax.
>
>End of movie.
>



"Don't Hate the PLAYA Boy...hate the GAME," Granddad Freeman of the Boondocks(7-11-99)

*Twenty-three percent of women are "autoerotic singles" — they prefer to achieve sexual satisfaction alone(source-bet.com)

*If U have won a Grammy, one of two things are at play: 1. Your shit is TIGHT
2. U are white
-(Me)

"'Cuz U answer the phone 'peace' that means U not a freak?"-The Questions(c) Common


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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REDeye
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6598 posts
Mon Jun-18-01 06:14 AM

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147. "RE: and that reason is what?"
In response to Reply # 142


          

He was pissed. He did it in a moment of anger. He felt Teddy was manipulating him. So he planted a false memory for himself.

There is nothing definitive in the movie that says this was or wasn't the guy who killed in wife. You can't be 100% sure that his wife was even murdered.

That's not what the movie was about.

RED
I'm like that guy who used a pointed stick instead of a rock.

RED
http://arrena.blogspot.com

  

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Hot_Damali
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8959 posts
Tue Apr-03-01 12:46 AM

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30. "FLAGRANT FOUL!!! *whistle blowing*"
In response to Reply # 21


          

they felt the
>film had a great --->creschendo<---
>but no climax.
>
>i enjoyed the ending for its
--->kafka-esque circularity<--- and lack of
>resolution,

>i felt by leaving the
>ending open the story became
>less a tale about a
>guy with a memory problem,
>and more about how we
>all are --->complicit<--- in these
>type of lies and selective
>memory,

i
>found the experience --->vertiginous<--- and
-->indicting<--- because of this lack
>of closure.

GRATUITIOUS USE OF TEN DOLLAR VOCABULARY WORDS!!!

PENALTY: IMMEDIATE CONFISCATION OF ALL DICTIONARIES

Damali, The Analog Girl in a Digital World


  

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Jekyll_Hyde
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1670 posts
Tue Apr-03-01 02:09 AM

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31. "RE: FLAGRANT FOUL!!! *whistle blowing*"
In response to Reply # 30


          

LOL. You should also confiscate his thesaurus.

Peace

  

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Hot_Damali
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8959 posts
Tue Apr-03-01 02:13 AM

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32. "that's what i meant to say but i'm an idiot"
In response to Reply # 31


          

Damali, The Analog Girl in a Digital World


  

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Brass_Tacts

Sun May-06-01 03:46 PM

  
67. "RE: Once again..."
In response to Reply # 15


          

word

  

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spirit
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21434 posts
Fri May-11-01 02:09 AM

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75. "2 gimmicks?"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

which two? telling the story in reverse and...?

the short term memory problem of the main character?

and the difference b/t a gimmick and a plot device is...?

hmmm. cynicism is so 90's. ha.

Thoughtfully yours,

Spirit Equality

MAY IS "J.U.I.C.E. IS ILL AS HELL" MONTH. GET THIS MAN'S MATERIAL BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY.

"Sincerely"
When I design rhyme in daylight
Or primetime I stay tight
I walk the fine line
between an emcee and a playwright
I represent the underground world, it's a unique scene
There's no record deals, no videos and street teams
I do shows to keep green
I know I'm not a star man,
I'm signed to myself
And my mic's my A&R man
In double nine I guess it's just a sign of the times
The spotlight that I've been looking for is finally mine
I never thought about the dough when I'm designing my rhyme
As long as I can reach my peoples over vinyl I'm fine
It ain't about that
I opened up for cats who ain't as dope as me
While I ripped the flow, they lip synched the show hopelessly
From Heaven I was sent to the game to entertain
I may never pimp that '75 ta cop that blue Range Rover
But even if I don't remain sober
I'ma score double digits
till the fuckin' games over

- J.U.I.C.E. (from '99), "Sincerely"

ps: COMICS ARTIST NEEDED!!!!!!!! INBOX ME!!!!!

http://www.mp3.com/miscellaneousflux -
Just listen, you will believe...

"In the first forty years of the twentieth century, about half of all
blacks who were killed, were killed by law enforcement." - Tim Wise, shocking statistic of the moment

"Smack it up, Flip It, Rub It Down.. OH NOOOO!! - This always intrigued me. What horrible catastrophe was caused by rubbing it down? If he just stopped after flipping it could this tragedy have been avoided?" - jsmooth995, LOL of the month


Peace,

Spirit (Alan)
http://wutangbook.com

  

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REDeye
Charter member
6598 posts
Fri May-11-01 05:13 AM

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79. "welcome to the party pal!"
In response to Reply # 75


          

© Bruce Willis, Die Hard

Dude, there is no substantial difference between gimmick and plot device, therefore there is no inherent cynicism in the statement.

The two gimmicks/plot devices were telling the story in reverse and the whole memory-loss illness. Those are two "devices" on which the movie hangs; take them both out and you have no movie. That's all I meant.

I'm glad you read the short story AFTER you saw the movie (I linked in a post last week some time). It puts a lot of the mystery of the movie into perspective.

But I must reiterate: the movie is NOT about who killed his wife or whether Sammy Jankis was real. The movie is about WHY Leonard killed the guy at the beginning (end) of the movie. Through the exploration, you come to examine how memory plays into the formation of our indentity, and how the memories upon which we build our selves is ultimately a faulty and unreliable construct. (This is a concept that isn't delved into in the short story, and that's why it's misleading to examine the connections, however clear, between the two stories.)

We get the answer to the stories main question when we see Leonard scribble that license plate number down in a fit of anger. The rest of the movie is cool and interesting and makes for a great puzzle, but it's only a gimmick (or plot device, if you prefer) to get you think about the main story and ideas.

"It's like a finger pointing away at the moon... don't watch the finger or you miss all that heavenly glory." © Bruce Lee, Enter the Dragon.

RED

"Sounds like Zen," I said. "Interesting
enough in itself as a system of
thought, but not much
good for explaining anything."
© Haruki Murakami, The Wind-Up
Bird Chronicle.

RED
http://arrena.blogspot.com

  

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spirit
Charter member
21434 posts
Tue May-15-01 10:12 AM

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87. "it makes me jealous"
In response to Reply # 79


  

          

THIS POST IS FILLED WITH SPOILERS. IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN "MEMENTO" YET, BUG OFF AND DON'T READ THIS POST!

that movie makes me wanna "go back to the lab" even tougher. i love it when movies make me want to write better.

and, yeah, the bruce lee quote is on point.

but, honestly, you know i'm gonna want to put the puzzle together too!

took a girl to see it a second time and caught a few more things.

PROBLEM: even on the second viewing, I never did catch Jimmy saying ANYTHING about Sammy. Was that a mistake or did I just miss it TWICE? Lenny says the reason why he knew Jimmy wasn't the rapist was because Jimmy mentioned the Sammy story.

WHAT I HEARD: I heard Jimmy call Lenny "the memory guy".

PROBLEM 2: at what point did Lenny meet Jimmy? I re-constructed the entire order of events earlier in this thread and that part just is NOT implied or shown anywhere. In fact, near as I can tell, it looks like Natalie never even met Teddy face to face. It seems like when she sees Lenny by the dumpster in the back of the bar that it's her first time seeing him. Why wouldn't see say "Oh, you aren't Jimmy...hi Lenny".

Also, is everyone in agreement that Natalie was in on the set-up of Jimmy because she doesn't IMMEDIATELY rat out Lenny when she sees him in Jimmy's car AND clothes?!!

Thoughtfully yours,

Spirit Equality

MAY IS "J.U.I.C.E. IS ILL AS HELL" MONTH. GET THIS MAN'S MATERIAL BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY.

"Sincerely"
When I design rhyme in daylight
Or primetime I stay tight
I walk the fine line
between an emcee and a playwright
I represent the underground world, it's a unique scene
There's no record deals, no videos and street teams
I do shows to keep green
I know I'm not a star man,
I'm signed to myself
And my mic's my A&R man
In double nine I guess it's just a sign of the times
The spotlight that I've been looking for is finally mine
I never thought about the dough when I'm designing my rhyme
As long as I can reach my peoples over vinyl I'm fine
It ain't about that
I opened up for cats who ain't as dope as me
While I ripped the flow, they lip synched the show hopelessly
From Heaven I was sent to the game to entertain
I may never pimp that '75 ta cop that blue Range Rover
But even if I don't remain sober
I'ma score double digits
till the fuckin' games over

- J.U.I.C.E. (from '99), "Sincerely"

ps: COMICS ARTIST NEEDED!!!!!!!! INBOX ME!!!!!

http://www.mp3.com/miscellaneousflux -
Just listen, you will believe...

"In the first forty years of the twentieth century, about half of all
blacks who were killed, were killed by law enforcement." - Tim Wise, shocking statistic of the moment

"Smack it up, Flip It, Rub It Down.. OH NOOOO!! - This always intrigued me. What horrible catastrophe was caused by rubbing it down? If he just stopped after flipping it could this tragedy have been avoided?" - jsmooth995, LOL of the month


Peace,

Spirit (Alan)
http://wutangbook.com

  

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REDeye
Charter member
6598 posts
Tue May-15-01 11:00 AM

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88. "RE: it makes me jealous"
In response to Reply # 87


          

>i love it when
>movies make me want to
>write better.

Exactly.

>PROBLEM: even on the second viewing,
>I never did catch Jimmy
>saying ANYTHING about Sammy. Was
>that a mistake or did
>I just miss it TWICE?
>Lenny says the reason why
>he knew Jimmy wasn't the
>rapist was because Jimmy mentioned
>the Sammy story.
>
>WHAT I HEARD: I heard Jimmy
>call Lenny "the memory guy".
>
>
>PROBLEM 2: at what point did
>Lenny meet Jimmy? I re-constructed
>the entire order of events
>earlier in this thread and
>that part just is NOT
>implied or shown anywhere. In
>fact, near as I can
>tell, it looks like Natalie
>never even met Teddy face
>to face. It seems like
>when she sees Lenny by
>the dumpster in the back
>of the bar that it's
>her first time seeing him.
>Why wouldn't see say "Oh,
>you aren't Jimmy...hi Lenny".


The two problems are related. You never get to see how these three people met or why they know each other. And, sort of like the point I was getting at in a different post somewhere here, I think that's the biggest clue that none of these issue matter. The deal is, we can speculate and try to puzzle it all together (and that can be fun) but the answers to those questions are not in the movie. Of course, some guesses may sound better than others, but in the end, they are all guesses.

Supposedly, Lenny lived in Northern California, but the movie takes place in Southern Cali. You never see him get there. You have no idea how he got there or why. You don't know how long he's been there, or how long ago Lenny's wife died.

We are like Lenny. In absence of backstory, the movie's version of memory, we become desperate to piece together some meaning, latching onto clues, fabricating some others, until we come up with a story that makes sense to us, something that allows us to move forward with th rest of the story. But we have no way of knowing if any of that story is real.

We can figure that Lenny and Jimmy's initial meeting isn't shown, because when we see Jimmy he knows about that Sammy story. In fact, Lenny tells everyone the Sammy story, so it's safe to assume that if a person met Lenny before, then he's heard the Sammy story. The rapist, on the other hand, wouldn't know the story, because Lenny didn't start telling it until after the rape -- assuming, of course, that there was actually a rape and a rapist.

Also, Natalie most certainly never met Lenny before that time behind the dumpster, where she thought he was Jimmy. But she later says Jimmy told her about the memory dude, which means Jimmy must have met Lenny before and that just isn't shown.

And to your last point, I don't think Natalie was in on the Jimmy hit. When she see Lenny in Jimmy's clothes and car, she surely figures that Lenny did something to Jimmy. She at that point is probably being cautious -- she doesn't know who this is, but he's probably dangerous, she has to be thinking. Maybe realizing that this guy doesn't knw who she is, she might be biding her time until she can plot revenge.

Then she finds out that he's the memory guy Jimmy told her about. She tests him, makes sure he's for real. Then she probably realizes that, even if he did kill Jimmy, he doesn't remember. Her twisted form of revenge is then to use him to kill someone the same way she probably figured someone else used him to kill Jimmy.

That's my take on it.

>Also, is everyone in agreement that
>Natalie was in on the
>set-up of Jimmy because she
>doesn't IMMEDIATELY rat out Lenny
>when she sees him in
>Jimmy's car AND clothes?!!

RED
I'm like that guy who used a pointed stick instead of a rock.

RED
http://arrena.blogspot.com

  

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UrbanCowgRRL
Charter member
8764 posts
Tue May-15-01 10:11 PM

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96. "yup"
In response to Reply # 88


  

          

that's how i see natalie as well..

i *think* jimmie and teddy did the rape, and are using his memory loss to further their crime (teddy is likely a cop,so people trust him), hence the bloody picture with the tats....teddy tells him shit to keep him occupied
and busy so he doesn't focus on that ...i think at some point Jimmy is trying to get Teddy out of the picture, (we don't know why or how come, probably the drug dealing part , cause damn teddy is in a beater!)..Jimmy starts calling Lenny to convince him that's it's a cop, name John G...there the other guy on the phone (THAT's why he mumbles sammy..i heard it)... he's the one on the other end of the phone, trying to convince him b4 Teddy gets to him..which is pointless cause teddy is too quick and slimy

and spirit, there at least two days minus flashbacks, (I gotta watch it again)..cause he sits out in the dark and burns the belongings from his wife (are they really hers? where'd he get them?) till the sun comes up (still in the suit)..after calling the escort

also, gotta remember the tat sequence and the phone call flashbacks...that was before every scene (with the exception of the murder)

natalie must have known stories bout him helping with dirty work, and picked up on it quick and used it too her advantage,smart broad i say

and damnit redeye..i wanna piece it!


Much love,
Kyle

go vote for me, cause i'm extreme and deserve to be on TV..oh yeah, and i'll buy tara something too

http://bluetorch.tv/host/voteforme.asp?id=41472

****************************************
let ang be a rock star! no more moderating for her!

Need Posting help...Go here----->http://www.okayplayer.com/guidelines.html

Want that incredible deep post of yours or your friends archived, email me through the boards...Or use the handy private message button
****************************************

much love,
Kyle

Detroit..Let's GO!!! May 12th Dilla Walk for Lupus...Belle Isle...

http://walk.lupusresearch.org/goto/blackeyedskeez

Even a Dollar can HELP..


http://www.myspace.com/jedikyle
http://www.detroitderbygirls.com/

  

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REDeye
Charter member
6598 posts
Wed May-16-01 05:31 AM

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101. "knock yourself out"
In response to Reply # 96


          

>and damnit redeye..i wanna piece it!

It's great fun. But the problem is, all the pieces to the puzzle are not there, so you can never come up with the "answer."

People are talking about how they got it figured out when it's impossible to know for sure what really happened. Which is the brilliant point of the movie. A lot of people have figured that out, but still want to make up their own minds what they think happened, and that's cool. I'm just saying, don't forget the point of that exercise, which is that what you're doing -- trying to make up your mind about what you believe happened -- is what we all do everyday of our lives. We decide who we are and what we believe based on incomplete and unreliable information.

But as you piece it together, remember that Lenny was from northern california, not southern california. It's unlikely that Jimmy knew him then.

I enjoyed this movie on many levels.

RED
I'm like that guy who used a pointed stick instead of a rock.

RED
http://arrena.blogspot.com

  

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spirit
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21434 posts
Wed May-16-01 08:14 PM

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109. "nah"
In response to Reply # 96


  

          

>i *think* jimmie and teddy did
>the rape, and are using
>his memory loss to further
>their crime (teddy is likely
>a cop,so people trust him),

that would mean there would have had to have been THREE attackers, because Lenny shot one in the head (part of his permanent memory).

>hence the bloody picture with
>the tats....

???

you're saying that jimmy and teddy did the rapes because of a picture with lenny smiling in it? either you're mixing up names or you're not making sense. or both. LOL.

teddy tells him shit
>to keep him occupied
>and busy so he doesn't focus
>on that ...i think at
>some point Jimmy is trying
>to get Teddy out of
>the picture, (we don't know
>why or how come, probably
>the drug dealing part ,
>cause damn teddy is in
>a beater!)..Jimmy starts calling Lenny
>to convince him that's it's
>a cop, name John G...

the person on the phone never tries to convince Lenny that the rapist was a cop. In fact, the phoner convinces Lenny that the rapist was a DRUG DEALER (a la Jimmy).

>there
>the other guy on the
>phone (THAT's why he mumbles
>sammy..i heard it)...

why who mumbles Sammy? use names.

> he's the
>one on the other end
>of the phone, trying to
>convince him b4 Teddy gets
>to him..which is pointless cause
>teddy is too quick and
>slimy

This makes no sense and isn't based on anything that occurred on-screen.

>and spirit, there at least two
>days minus flashbacks, (I gotta
>watch it again)..cause he sits
>out in the dark and
>burns the belongings from his
>wife (are they really hers?
>where'd he get them?)
>till the sun comes up
>(still in the suit)..after calling
>the escort

I said that there are several days in the story timeline...read my ENTIRE Please II post again. It's in there, near the end. When I said "we're still on the same day!" my point was that the majority of the movie takes place in the same day. Obviously the flashbacks and such require some time...and I believe Lenny when he said the tracks were "a few days old".

>also, gotta remember the tat sequence
>and the phone call flashbacks...that
>was before every scene (with
>the exception of the murder)

?

The phone call flashbacks, in black and white, pre-date the entire color portion of the movie (except the color portions of the wife rape scene and the pre-incident scenes).

>natalie must have known stories bout
>him helping with dirty work,
>and picked up on it
>quick and used it too
>her advantage,smart broad i say

"known stories"? She says explicitly that Jimmy told her about Lenny. No need to speculate there.

Thoughtfully yours,

Spirit Equality

MAY IS "J.U.I.C.E. IS ILL AS HELL" MONTH. GET THIS MAN'S MATERIAL BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY.

"Sincerely"
When I design rhyme in daylight
Or primetime I stay tight
I walk the fine line
between an emcee and a playwright
I represent the underground world, it's a unique scene
There's no record deals, no videos and street teams
I do shows to keep green
I know I'm not a star man,
I'm signed to myself
And my mic's my A&R man
In double nine I guess it's just a sign of the times
The spotlight that I've been looking for is finally mine
I never thought about the dough when I'm designing my rhyme
As long as I can reach my peoples over vinyl I'm fine
It ain't about that
I opened up for cats who ain't as dope as me
While I ripped the flow, they lip synched the show hopelessly
From Heaven I was sent to the game to entertain
I may never pimp that '75 ta cop that blue Range Rover
But even if I don't remain sober
I'ma score double digits
till the fuckin' games over

- J.U.I.C.E. (from '99), "Sincerely"

ps: COMICS ARTIST NEEDED!!!!!!!! INBOX ME!!!!!

http://www.mp3.com/miscellaneousflux -
Just listen, you will believe...

"In the first forty years of the twentieth century, about half of all
blacks who were killed, were killed by law enforcement." - Tim Wise, shocking statistic of the moment

"Smack it up, Flip It, Rub It Down.. OH NOOOO!! - This always intrigued me. What horrible catastrophe was caused by rubbing it down? If he just stopped after flipping it could this tragedy have been avoided?" - jsmooth995, LOL of the month


Peace,

Spirit (Alan)
http://wutangbook.com

  

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Solarus
Charter member
3604 posts
Fri May-18-01 04:13 PM

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113. "All the flashbacks"
In response to Reply # 109


  

          

occurred during the same day that Lenny killed Jimmy. In the movie their were two different night-to-day scenes (e.g.Lenny burning wife's things and Lenny sleeping in bed with Natalie).


PEace
Solarus

***Words of Wisdom***

"If it's not about NATIONBUILDING, it's not about ANYTHING."- Dr. John Henrik Clarke

"We are not the victims! We are just fighting forces that we cannot see!"-2001 Sankofa Conference

"You don't have the RIGHT to have free time from your children."-Kwame Agyei Akoto

"It is the worst feeling to hear the call of the drum and not be able to respond."-Solarus

On understanding Afrakan thought:
"it's like explaining astrophysics to a whino, the explanation can't be done like that. when people try to simplify it, they ask the other person to tailor the answers their cultural context. and trying to cater afrikan ideals to european understanding is a REAL sin."-utamaroho

____________________________
"the real pyramids were built with such precision that you can't slide a piece of paper between two 4,000 lb stones, and have shafts perfectly aligned so that you can see a tiny aperture through dozens of these mammoth blocks

  

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UrbanCowgRRL
Charter member
8764 posts
Tue May-22-01 11:06 AM

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119. "you are extremely difficult..."
In response to Reply # 109


  

          

and i saw it again, and i was just speculating the first time...

>>i *think* jimmie and teddy did
>>the rape, and are using
>>his memory loss to further
>>their crime (teddy is likely
>>a cop,so people trust him),
>
>that would mean there would have
>had to have been THREE
>attackers, because Lenny shot one
>in the head (part of
>his permanent memory).
>
>>hence the bloody picture with
>>the tats....
>
>???

see, playing the cut game...i wrote that saying he (lenny) was helping them (teddy and jimmie) with drug deal shit...and that coulda been a photo from one of those killing
>
>you're saying that jimmy and teddy
>did the rapes because of
>a picture with lenny smiling
>in it? either you're mixing
>up names or you're not
>making sense. or both. LOL.

did you read what i wrote? i said that picture was from Lenny helping them with killing of drug dealer shit...who knows sheesh,



>
>>there
>>the other guy on the
>>phone (THAT's why he mumbles
>>sammy..i heard it)...
>
>why who mumbles Sammy? use names.

jimmie..if i said jimmie was the guy on the phone (i'm not so sure second time around) then i meant when JIMMIE mumbled sammy (at the beginning/ 'end'...when he's dragging him in the basement..why would he want lenny to know he knew sammie (Lenny questions things then)


>
>This makes no sense and isn't
>based on anything that occurred
>on-screen.

sure it can..if you say they (teddy and jimmie) didn't know lenny personally till the intial photo of teddy and three days of the film it could..


>
>I said that there are several
>days in the story timeline...read
>my ENTIRE Please II post
>again. It's in there, near
>the end. When I said
>"we're still on the same
>day!" my point was that
>the majority of the movie
>takes place in the same
>day.

umm, the escort in the bedroom, one night
the night he stays at natalies, one night

still in same clothes..not the same day

Obviously the flashbacks and
>such require some time...and I
>believe Lenny when he said
>the tracks were "a few
>days old".
>
>>also, gotta remember the tat sequence
>>and the phone call flashbacks...that
>>was before every scene (with
>>the exception of the murder)
>
>?
>
>The phone call flashbacks, in black
>and white, pre-date the entire
>color portion of the movie
>(except the color portions of
>the wife rape scene and
>the pre-incident scenes).

you just said exactly what i did

>
>"known stories"? She says explicitly that
>Jimmy told her about Lenny.
>No need to speculate there.

hey point for you!! lol
>
>Thoughtfully yours,
>
>Spirit Equality
>
>MAY IS "J.U.I.C.E. IS ILL AS
>HELL" MONTH. GET THIS MAN'S
>MATERIAL BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY.
>
>
>"Sincerely"
>When I design rhyme in daylight
>
>Or primetime I stay tight
>I walk the fine line
>between an emcee and a playwright
>
>I represent the underground world, it's
>a unique scene
>There's no record deals, no videos
>and street teams
>I do shows to keep green
>
>I know I'm not a star
>man,
>I'm signed to myself
>And my mic's my A&R man
>
>In double nine I guess it's
>just a sign of the
>times
>The spotlight that I've been looking
>for is finally mine
>I never thought about the dough
>when I'm designing my rhyme
>
>As long as I can reach
>my peoples over vinyl I'm
>fine
>It ain't about that
>I opened up for cats who
>ain't as dope as me
>
>While I ripped the flow, they
>lip synched the show hopelessly
>
>From Heaven I was sent to
>the game to entertain
>I may never pimp that '75
>ta cop that blue Range
>Rover
>But even if I don't remain
>sober
>I'ma score double digits
>till the fuckin' games over
>
>- J.U.I.C.E. (from '99), "Sincerely"
>
>ps: COMICS ARTIST NEEDED!!!!!!!! INBOX ME!!!!!
>
>
>http://www.mp3.com/miscellaneousflux -
>Just listen, you will believe...
>
>"In the first forty years of
>the twentieth century, about half
>of all
>blacks who were killed, were killed
>by law enforcement." - Tim
>Wise, shocking statistic of the
>moment
>
>"Smack it up, Flip It, Rub
>It Down.. OH NOOOO!! -
>This always intrigued me. What
>horrible catastrophe was caused by
>rubbing it down? If he
>just stopped after flipping it
>could this tragedy have been
>avoided?" - jsmooth995, LOL of
>the month


Much love,
Kyle

go vote for me, cause i'm extreme and deserve to be on TV..oh yeah, and i'll buy tara something too

http://bluetorch.tv/host/voteforme.asp?id=41472

****************************************
let ang be a rock star! no more moderating for her!

Need Posting help...Go here----->http://www.okayplayer.com/guidelines.html

Want that incredible deep post of yours or your friends archived, email me through the boards...Or use the handy private message button
****************************************

much love,
Kyle

Detroit..Let's GO!!! May 12th Dilla Walk for Lupus...Belle Isle...

http://walk.lupusresearch.org/goto/blackeyedskeez

Even a Dollar can HELP..


http://www.myspace.com/jedikyle
http://www.detroitderbygirls.com/

  

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UrbanCowgRRL
Charter member
8764 posts
Tue May-15-01 09:46 PM

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94. "honestly"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

i go to movies to be entertained...

i really don't want to think that deep about conditioning after a movie (sue me) that's what school and books and round table discussions are for...

the whole - is it mental or physical, sammie couldn't be trained...where does Lenny fit into it - is like going back into psych classes...

it's cool, there were depths, but i'd rather play detective than phD student

good flick either way you take it, my opinion of course

Much love,
Kyle

go vote for me, cause i'm extreme and deserve to be on TV..oh yeah, and i'll buy tara something too

http://bluetorch.tv/host/voteforme.asp?id=41472

****************************************
let ang be a rock star! no more moderating for her!

Need Posting help...Go here----->http://www.okayplayer.com/guidelines.html

Want that incredible deep post of yours or your friends archived, email me through the boards...Or use the handy private message button
****************************************

much love,
Kyle

Detroit..Let's GO!!! May 12th Dilla Walk for Lupus...Belle Isle...

http://walk.lupusresearch.org/goto/blackeyedskeez

Even a Dollar can HELP..


http://www.myspace.com/jedikyle
http://www.detroitderbygirls.com/

  

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Solarus
Charter member
3604 posts
Fri May-18-01 03:39 PM

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112. "I'm a psych major"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

so the whole anteretrograde amnesia angle is WHY I saw the movie. That alone made the movie good to me. THe way the story was told also got me because it somewhat gave us the feel of what it means to possess this condition. Also it had me thinking about how it must be have that condition.

But the theme was on point. Memory is what you make of it. PERIOD. Every post that I do I try to stress how EVERYTHING is CULTURAL and amidst that cultural context, it is personal. We all create our own realities with the mind which is a TOOL, nothing more, nothing less. Memory is just a wrench within the mental toolbox.

PEace
Solarus

***Words of Wisdom***

"If it's not about NATIONBUILDING, it's not about ANYTHING."- Dr. John Henrik Clarke

"We are not the victims! We are just fighting forces that we cannot see!"-2001 Sankofa Conference

"You don't have the RIGHT to have free time from your children."-Kwame Agyei Akoto

"It is the worst feeling to hear the call of the drum and not be able to respond."-Solarus

On understanding Afrakan thought:
"it's like explaining astrophysics to a whino, the explanation can't be done like that. when people try to simplify it, they ask the other person to tailor the answers their cultural context. and trying to cater afrikan ideals to european understanding is a REAL sin."-utamaroho

____________________________
"the real pyramids were built with such precision that you can't slide a piece of paper between two 4,000 lb stones, and have shafts perfectly aligned so that you can see a tiny aperture through dozens of these mammoth blocks

  

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arkitek
Charter member
573 posts
Tue May-29-01 04:23 AM

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127. "okay"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

now i understand...thanks

just a thought...

http://www.geocities.com/arkitek_1999

shallow-deepness.....it is what it is

  

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AfricanHerbsman

Mon Apr-02-01 03:39 AM

  
17. "damn"
In response to Reply # 0


          


seems I shouldn't have skipped this one.

now I'm in for a long wait.

dunno why I kind of assumed it was style over substance.

oh well.
_______________________________

seize your time! - marley/wailers

lifting weights
with his tits
doing pushups with
his clit, disgusting - funkadelic

  

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Dreadmedia
Charter member
34785 posts
Mon Apr-02-01 08:59 AM

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24. "beg to differ my brother"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

great film
beautifull concept

as far as execution I found the lead actors performance o be a bit flat some times especially his voice overs they were kind of contrived and since the whole film counted on him it kinda took away from it

plus I thought the whole slick L.A style kind of took away from it

I think the crux of the film as in the story telling which is pretty hard to fuck up but Ihad issue swith the other stuff

btw did you get what the happy picture where he was covered with blood ment>

  

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REDeye
Charter member
6598 posts
Mon Apr-02-01 09:38 AM

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25. "RE: beg to differ my brother"
In response to Reply # 24


          

What slick L.A. style? The look of the film? I didn't find anything slick about the look. Quite the opposite, in fact. Please clarify.

RED

"Instead of just sitting around, why
don't you kids go out and co-opt
some black culture?"
© a New Yorker cartoon

RED
http://arrena.blogspot.com

  

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native_son
Charter member
776 posts
Mon Apr-02-01 09:50 AM

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26. "RE: beg to differ my brother"
In response to Reply # 24


          

i dont know if i would call guy pierces performance flat but i wonder if he was purposely comical, like,

while holding a bottle of alcohol - "hmmmm... i dont feel drunk"
or
while running - "what i am i doing here? oh i must be chasing him"

some of the shit he said was so absurd i could not hold in my laughter. Leonards character was more lost than tragic. i think his lack of fear played a big part in his "flatness"


native son

  

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Jekyll_Hyde
Charter member
1670 posts
Mon Apr-02-01 11:26 AM

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27. "RE: beg to differ my brother"
In response to Reply # 26


          

The funniest part was when he goes back to Dodd's hotel room, but goes to room 9 instead of 6. "Oh, sorry"...that shit had me and my friend laughing like crazy!

Peace

  

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thebigfunk
Charter member
10469 posts
Mon Apr-02-01 03:18 PM

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29. "RE: beg to differ my brother"
In response to Reply # 26


          


>some of the shit he said
>was so absurd i could
>not hold in my laughter.
>Leonards character was more lost
>than tragic.

I don't think you're supposed to be holding it in - I think there's A LOT of humor in this movie. I mean, the script is written for it: a hotel clerk trying to rent two rooms to the guy, Teddy trying to get him to get into a different car - Teddy's character as a whole, with the millions of bad jokes? There's a lot in the movie that's humorous.

On the point of being more lost than tragic, I think how lost he is IS the tragedy. Because, in many ways, he's so lost that he's not a person anymore - he's a piece of fiction, written by both himself and others, intentionally or not. His goal - finding the person who raped and murdered his wife - is essentially fake, empty. He's convinced himself he has something to live for, but he does he really? He has no clue who the hell he is. Who his friends and enemies are. Who's around him.

That's the tragedy. Once again, some profound stuff going on - how much does memory shape one's personality, how does memory mold a person into being A PERSON?




-thebigfunk
"And you may ask yourself... what is that beautiful house?
And you may ask yourself... where does that highway go?
And you may ask yourself... Am I right? Am I wrong?
And you may ask yourself... MY GOD! WHAT HAVE I DONE!?!" - "Once In A Lifetime" - Talking Heads

"Trouble in transit/got through the roadblock/we blended with the crowd
We got computer/we're tapping phone lines/I know that ain't allowed
We dress like students/we dress like housewives/or in a suit and a tie
I changed my hairstyle/so many times now/I don't know what I look like!
You make me shiver/I feel so tender/we make a pretty good team
Don't get exhausted/I'll do some driving/you ought to get some sleep
Get you instructions/follow directions/then you should change your address
Maybe tomorrow/Maybe the next day/Whatever you think is best
Burned all my notebooks/What good are notebooks?/They won't help me survive...
My chest is aching/Burns like a furnace/The burning keeps me alive..." - "Life During Wartime" - Talking Heads

-thebigfunk

~ i could still snort you under the table ~

  

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UrbanCowgRRL
Charter member
8764 posts
Tue May-15-01 10:23 PM

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97. "great point"
In response to Reply # 29


  

          


>I don't think you're supposed to
>be holding it in -
>I think there's A LOT
>of humor in this movie.
> I mean, the script
>is written for it: a
>hotel clerk trying to rent
>two rooms to the guy,

"so wait, i'm paying for two rooms in this shit hole"
"business was slow"

i was cracking up throughout this whole film...

*BEST point yet!! is below**

>On the point of being more
>lost than tragic, I think
>how lost he is IS
>the tragedy. Because, in
>many ways, he's so lost
>that he's not a person
>anymore - he's a piece
>of fiction, written by both
>himself and others, intentionally or
>not. His goal -
>finding the person who raped
>and murdered his wife -
>is essentially fake, empty.
>He's convinced himself he has
>something to live for, but
>he does he really?
>He has no clue who
>the hell he is.
>Who his friends and enemies
>are. Who's around him.
>
>
>That's the tragedy. Once again,
>some profound stuff going on
>- how much does memory
>shape one's personality, how does
>memory mold a person into
>being A PERSON?
>

that's the best shit i read on the whole perception thing.i totally agree it he was so lost it made you feel real sad for him (the escort scene :'()...

i know i'm adding nothing to this thread but this is interesting and fun for me! whoo hoo



Much love,
Kyle

go vote for me, cause i'm extreme and deserve to be on TV..oh yeah, and i'll buy tara something too

http://bluetorch.tv/host/voteforme.asp?id=41472

****************************************
let ang be a rock star! no more moderating for her!

Need Posting help...Go here----->http://www.okayplayer.com/guidelines.html

Want that incredible deep post of yours or your friends archived, email me through the boards...Or use the handy private message button
****************************************

much love,
Kyle

Detroit..Let's GO!!! May 12th Dilla Walk for Lupus...Belle Isle...

http://walk.lupusresearch.org/goto/blackeyedskeez

Even a Dollar can HELP..


http://www.myspace.com/jedikyle
http://www.detroitderbygirls.com/

  

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spirit
Charter member
21434 posts
Fri May-11-01 02:15 AM

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76. "RE: beg to differ my brother"
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

>btw did you get what the happy picture where he was covered with blood ment>

they explained that in the film, bucko. you must not have been paying attention. or you have a poor memory.

teddy said the picture was taken by him, of lenny, after lenny killed the rapist he was seeking. the idea, according to teddy, was that lenny had forgotten and been on a wild goose chase ever since.

that movie is SICK.

and I thought the acting was just fine. Dug the voice-overs too. And i hate voice-overs as a general rule.

Thoughtfully yours,

Spirit Equality

MAY IS "J.U.I.C.E. IS ILL AS HELL" MONTH. GET THIS MAN'S MATERIAL BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY.

"Sincerely"
When I design rhyme in daylight
Or primetime I stay tight
I walk the fine line
between an emcee and a playwright
I represent the underground world, it's a unique scene
There's no record deals, no videos and street teams
I do shows to keep green
I know I'm not a star man,
I'm signed to myself
And my mic's my A&R man
In double nine I guess it's just a sign of the times
The spotlight that I've been looking for is finally mine
I never thought about the dough when I'm designing my rhyme
As long as I can reach my peoples over vinyl I'm fine
It ain't about that
I opened up for cats who ain't as dope as me
While I ripped the flow, they lip synched the show hopelessly
From Heaven I was sent to the game to entertain
I may never pimp that '75 ta cop that blue Range Rover
But even if I don't remain sober
I'ma score double digits
till the fuckin' games over

- J.U.I.C.E. (from '99), "Sincerely"

ps: COMICS ARTIST NEEDED!!!!!!!! INBOX ME!!!!!

http://www.mp3.com/miscellaneousflux -
Just listen, you will believe...

"In the first forty years of the twentieth century, about half of all
blacks who were killed, were killed by law enforcement." - Tim Wise, shocking statistic of the moment

"Smack it up, Flip It, Rub It Down.. OH NOOOO!! - This always intrigued me. What horrible catastrophe was caused by rubbing it down? If he just stopped after flipping it could this tragedy have been avoided?" - jsmooth995, LOL of the month


Peace,

Spirit (Alan)
http://wutangbook.com

  

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jigga
Charter member
31583 posts
Tue Apr-10-01 08:26 AM

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33. "RE: Memento"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

This movie was absolutly incredible. The most originality Ive ever seen in a movie since Being John Malkovich. I read alot about it before finally getting 2 see it and I was still "lost" but intrigued. The begining scene where hes looking at the picture and starts shaking it and it becomes less clear bezuz its backwards was a trip. As well as the shooting with the bullet going back into the gun.

The only rant I have about this flick is that I live in a major city (Seatlle) yet its only playin @ one theatre here and although it was just released a few weeks ago the theatre will be showing some other shit after this Thursday. Ive got 2 see it again and I'm really hoping that the DVD will have directors commentary cuz there are plenty of questions I have about this flick that many of you have already stated.

Where were some of you getting the idea that his wife committed suicide cuz I completely missed that.

Screw you guys...I'm goin home -Cartman

The mother of civilization, wants 2 know my occupation, home location and means of transportation. The correct combination unlocks her placenta. Ive got a cellular phone w/ a rubba antenna, own a 3 story house, drive a 4 door Ac, favorite song of all time, Mobb Deeps hit it from the back...then jet. -Ras Kass

...she said, "Do you have a car? Is your shit up 2 par?" Damn! a nigga need a resume just sittin at tha bar! -Ras Kass

Cuz bitches are like flies(why)they attract 2 the best shit. -Ras Kass

Cowards make a little cheese, then enlarge artificially, like Pamela Anderson Lee's double D's, please! I'm bangin from Belize 2 Tel Aviv in tha Red Sea racin Saddam Hussien on Kawasaki jet skies. -Ras Kass

18 willin rednecks, sendin me death threats, cuz their niece fantasize about wet sex, when I'm in her headsets. -Opio from Souls of Mischief

Tryin 2 do all I can do in this car...her mom's Jaguar -A-plus from Souls of Mischief

You think you're able 2 label the Hiero sound? You still havent found a comparable variable -Del

You live on the edge? I live on the San Andreas. -Evidence

I AINT GOT TIME 4 NO JIBBA JABBA!!!-Mr.T





  

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REDeye
Charter member
6598 posts
Tue Apr-10-01 09:40 AM

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36. "Broadway Market"
In response to Reply # 33


          

Don't worry. Things always play at the Egyptian for two weeks, then go to either the Market or Harvard Exit.

Look for Amores Perros at the Egyptian. That's the next must-see film for me.

And some people think Leonard is Sammy, and Sammy's wife committed suicide (sort of) by getting Sammy to give her an OD of insulin -- that was really what Leonard's wife did.

RED

"Instead of just sitting around, why
don't you kids go out and co-opt
some black culture?"
© a New Yorker cartoon

RED
http://arrena.blogspot.com

  

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jigga
Charter member
31583 posts
Tue Apr-10-01 11:10 AM

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38. "RE: Mmmkay"
In response to Reply # 36


  

          

Now its starting 2 make a little more sense. The preview for that Amores Perros movie did look pretty good. Definitly gotta see Memento again...soon....while its still somewhat fresh in my mind

Screw you guys...I'm goin home -Cartman

The mother of civilization, wants 2 know my occupation, home location and means of transportation. The correct combination unlocks her placenta. Ive got a cellular phone w/ a rubba antenna, own a 3 story house, drive a 4 door Ac, favorite song of all time, Mobb Deeps hit it from the back...then jet. -Ras Kass

...she said, "Do you have a car? Is your shit up 2 par?" Damn! a nigga need a resume just sittin at tha bar! -Ras Kass

Cuz bitches are like flies(why)they attract 2 the best shit. -Ras Kass

Cowards make a little cheese, then enlarge artificially, like Pamela Anderson Lee's double D's, please! I'm bangin from Belize 2 Tel Aviv in tha Red Sea racin Saddam Hussien on Kawasaki jet skies. -Ras Kass

18 willin rednecks, sendin me death threats, cuz their niece fantasize about wet sex, when I'm in her headsets. -Opio from Souls of Mischief

Tryin 2 do all I can do in this car...her mom's Jaguar -A-plus from Souls of Mischief

You think you're able 2 label the Hiero sound? You still havent found a comparable variable -Del

You live on the edge? I live on the San Andreas. -Evidence

I AINT GOT TIME 4 NO JIBBA JABBA!!!-Mr.T





  

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epluribusunum
Charter member
1770 posts
Tue Apr-10-01 09:07 AM

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35. "The Facts *spoilers, do not read*"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I dont agree w/all this info, but it clarified some things I overlooked (from aintitcool.com)

VIEW THE MOVIE BEFORE READING THIS! I saw memento 2 days ago - 1 screening so far but I want to get this on DVD. This movie makes 100% sense (everything is answered) but you have to work a little. Ask yourself who is Sammy Jenkins (there in lies the key). There are two tattoos that stand out as being different. "Sammy G. raped and murdered your wife" - It's backwards on his chest and "Remember Sammy Jenkins". All of the tattoos are in public concealed by clothing except the Sammy tattoo. Note that it is cursive not printed on his body. All of the other tattoos are printed (facts). The Sammy tattoo is always visible. Recall that Leonard tries to wash this off his had at the beginning of the movie (before any of the other tattoos are revealed). What does this mean? Sammy G. Tattoo is bull (backwards) like the movie. We are trying to discover who killed his wife but it is significant that Leonard sees this tattoo clearly whenever he looks in the mirror (why??? cause he killed her). This is a case of Igo / Ego. Sammy Jenkins is Leonard. Leonard is suffering from a mental condition (short-term memory loss) not a physical condition. Although he makes a point of saying over and over again it's physical (it's not). Whenever he closes his eyes to "remember" he adjusts the truth. Recall the scene with Natalie - "remember your wife" (the pinch - later revealed to be after the insulin shot). The phone conversations are in black and white (like printed facts). Leonard says (he must look into a persons eyes) and can't talk over the phone why??? Because Sammy pretended recognition by looking in to peoples eyes (thus the rejected insurance, which leads to the insulin OD). Why is the movie called Memento? Because Leonard wakes up to see his wife’s things (book, clock, book) - he recalls those perfectly and burns them to cover up his guilt. The prostitute is instructed to slam the door and wake him up. As if he is trying to wake up to reality. The story had to be told back to forward (otherwise we would have known right away that Sammy = Leonard). It's like 6th Sense revealing that he's dead. This is what really happened. 1. Leonard wakes up. He hears his wife call out for help (Lenny). That's why he doesn't like being called Lenny (his wife called him that). 2. She is raped and survives. He gets the "mental" short-term memory problem. 3. His claim is rejected because he had a "mental" not physical problem - His wife dies (insulin). He deals with her death by becoming the insurance guy whose wife was raped and murdered. 4. Enter Teddy. Assuming Teddy was a cop on the case. He feels guilty (wife's death) and tracks down the surviving rapist. Leonard kills him but isn't cured - because the rapist didn't kill his wife (he did). 5. Teddy decides to use Leonard and tricks him into believing "John G" killed his wife. Teddy really is John the G is a joke (200 G's). 6. Leonard kills Jimmy but realized (as we see in the film) that Teddy lied. He is able to readjust reality and writes down Teddy's plates (knowing he will kill John G. John G is a killer or has made Leonard into a killer. John G is Teddy. 7. The pages missing from the police report would reveal that Lenny's wife was raped but didn't die. 8. The caller has to be Teddy. He's giving Lenny notes for the case because there is no John G. Also, Teddy keeps trying to get Lenny out of town. Since Lenny has tattooed himself...Teddy is screwed and has to play out the latest detective case until John G. is caught. PS...Do a little research on Igo and Ego and you'll see that this movie fits the bill

  

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Jekyll_Hyde
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39. "RE: The Facts *spoilers, do not read*"
In response to Reply # 35


          

Wow, lots of stuff that I didn't think of, but I'm proud to say that I figured out the ending right after I left the cinema with my friend. Indeed, his wife was raped, which led to his condition. She couldn't live with his condition anymore, so she gets him to give her too much insulin. Teddy helps him find the rapist so that he can kill him, and then the rest happens. I'm so glad I figured this out the first time around. I'm probably going to go see it again this weekend so I can enjoy it on all its levels. Truly a great film that needs to be seen more than once to be truly appreciated.

Peace

  

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Ornery
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Tue Apr-17-01 03:12 AM

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54. "RE: The Facts *spoilers, do not read*"
In response to Reply # 35


          

The backwards tattoo read "John G. raped and murdered your wife". While it was true that "Sammy" killed his wife, the tattoo didn't say it...that would have made things too easy.


ornery

  

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shockzilla
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Fri Apr-13-01 08:19 PM

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40. "minor spoiler-- sammy jenkins & leonard"
In response to Reply # 0


          

anyone notice when 'Teddy' was explaining to Leonard that his wife was NOT murdered, that SHE was the diabetic wife who was killed by her husband..etc, Leonard pictures Sammy in the institution (again- for the audience, anyways) and

there is an almost subliminal image of Leonard sitting in Sammy's place in the institution-- i.e. Lenny IS Sammy

or is he?

is this whole speech merely Teddy manipulating Leonard?

or is he?

haven't seen such a thought-provoking movie in a while. i enjoyed this immensely-- definitely gotta see it again


shock
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zero
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41. "yea .. I noticed that"
In response to Reply # 40


          

That was something Fincher used in Fight Club, to foreshadow the one-in-the-same nature of Tyler Durden/Jack. Overall, very well made movie. Quite the mindfuck. Just one question...

what the fuck happened at the end? There was a shot of Leonard with his wife (I think), but he had his tattoo's already. and apparently, he had a tattoo on his heart, the spot he was saving for when he killed 'John G.' My friend said he saw a tattoo there, but I wasnt so sure about that...

and to the person that asked about the picture of him being happy, that was cause he had killed 'John G.' and he could fill up the spot he left on his chest for when he fulfilled his life mission...

-zero¹
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Melanism
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43. "i think..."
In response to Reply # 41


          

...that scene was dream...he was saying to himself if he would allow himself to enjoy killing john g.

m e l a n i s m

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albinomexican
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Thu Apr-19-01 06:57 PM

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61. "i need help"
In response to Reply # 41


          

i understand everything except this scene. the one where lenny and his wife are lying down and he already has the tattoos. the one on his heart wasn't there before. zero, what do you think it is all about?

"...while the other white meat squeals it's secret..." - el dash producto of company flow

  

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Blaise
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62. "RE: i need help"
In response to Reply # 61


  

          

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing

"You know a nigga got gifts" - Quentin(The Best Man)

Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence.
Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent.
Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb.
Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts.
Per

  

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UrbanCowgRRL
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98. " i think 'teddy' was fucking with him"
In response to Reply # 41


  

          

there is NO way he'd have the damn "john G. murdered and raped my wife" on his chest with her laying on it!..it just wouldn't work like that...if sammy = leonard, then he woulda OD'd her on the couch, not on the bed while she was brushing he hair...

i don't buy that whole twist...i still think he really did remember sammie b4 the shit happened, and used what sammie didn't have to his advantage...

Much love,
Kyle

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TDS
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Mon Apr-16-01 01:16 AM

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42. "RE: Memento"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Leonard isn't being manipulated, he's manipulating. Other characters also try to manipulate him, but he ends up with the loot despite his disease. Leonard has got the asset to be succesful over the other players, his disease. The memory disease is a handy device to fulfill his capitalist or yuppie aspirations, like an American Psycho, becoming a killer/thief without having any remorse, cancelling his conscience. In the end the audience figures this out, unconsciously thinking they are priviliged enough to have a full access to his mind. I even think that we're possibly being tricked when we reach that point of thinking. I'm wondering whether he isn't just faking a memory disease. Are there any doctors in the house who have medical evidence for the existence of this disease? A murderer often claims/fakes he is insane to trick the jury of the trial and escape a death sentence. Isn't Lenny faking? Why should we believe him when he tells people he's memory sick, the same people who are eventually being played by him. I think he is too perfect a player, to be sick. I think that the robbery was the point at which he consciously decided unchain his capitalist ego and made up a powerful condition to execute this.

Ciao, TDS

  

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Jekyll_Hyde
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Mon Apr-16-01 05:18 AM

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44. "RE: Memento"
In response to Reply # 42


          

WTF??

Man, I think you're way off, and I doubt that I'll be the only one to tell you.

First of all, Leonard's condition is real. When the hippocampus is damaged, you can suffer anterograde memory loss, because the hippocampus is responsible for converting short-term memory to long-term memory. You learn this in Intro to Psychology or Psychology 101. Leonard is definitely not faking.

To think that Leonard is using this condition to fulfill his capitalist desires (or whatever) is just totally missing the point of the movie. Leonard isn't playing anyone in the movie but himself (he manipulates his memory, so that he still has a life purpose). Everyone in the movie uses him. The only person that gets it in the end is Teddy, but he isn't being played by Leonard.

Go watch the movie again, because I really think you missed the point. This is a movie about what memory is, and how we shape it to satisfy ourselves. It makes us wonder how reliable memory is, and why we remember only certain things instead of others. This is in no way about capitalist yuppies. You read too much into it.

Peace

  

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jigga
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Mon Apr-16-01 07:17 AM

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46. "RE: Memento"
In response to Reply # 44


  

          

I repsect eveyones interpretations of the movie cuz its definitly a tough one 2 figure out. I didnt really see it the way TDS did but his post further justifies the need for a directors commentary DVD. I understood movies like Ronin and Fight Club alot better after watching their DVD versions with the directors commentary.

Another thing interesting pointed out 2 me that I didnt really catch/realize/recognize is that the scenes in black and white where Lennys talking on the phone are going forward while the rest of the movie is going in reverse. Now that I know this, I definitly need 2 see it again 2 understand the significance of the scene 2wards the end of the movie (really the begining) when he puts on the guys clothes and it changes from black and white 2 color.

Screw you guys...I'm goin home -Cartman

The mother of civilization, wants 2 know my occupation, home location and means of transportation. The correct combination unlocks her placenta. Ive got a cellular phone w/ a rubba antenna, own a 3 story house, drive a 4 door Ac, favorite song of all time, Mobb Deeps hit it from the back...then jet. -Ras Kass

...she said, "Do you have a car? Is your shit up 2 par?" Damn! a nigga need a resume just sittin at tha bar! -Ras Kass

Cuz bitches are like flies(why)they attract 2 the best shit. -Ras Kass

Cowards make a little cheese, then enlarge artificially, like Pamela Anderson Lee's double D's, please! I'm bangin from Belize 2 Tel Aviv in tha Red Sea racin Saddam Hussien on Kawasaki jet skies. -Ras Kass

18 willin rednecks, sendin me death threats, cuz their niece fantasize about wet sex, when I'm in her headsets. -Opio from Souls of Mischief

Tryin 2 do all I can do in this car...her mom's Jaguar -A-plus from Souls of Mischief

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I AINT GOT TIME 4 NO JIBBA JABBA!!!-Mr.T





  

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Jekyll_Hyde
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Mon Apr-16-01 07:45 AM

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47. "RE: Memento"
In response to Reply # 46


          

Sure, I'll respect everyone's interpretations of the movie, because it is complex, but I think that the "capitalist yuppie" angle doesn't make much sense, and seems to cheapen the whole movie.

This movie isn't about the loot in the trunk of the Jaguar. That is like a minor detail, and it has more to do with Teddy than anything else. The loot in the Jag is what Teddy wants, and it's the reason for him using Leonard.

I think TDS read to much into that, which is a shame, because he seems to have missed the best points of the movie. I don't think this movie compares in any way with "American Psycho".

Anyways, about the black and white scenes, yeah they move forward. It seemed kind of obvious, because he progressively tells you about Sammy Jankis through the telephone call, and then he gets paranoid about answering the phone. Then, of course, the black and white storyline meets the color at the end. The black and white storyline is kind of like back story, but it's done in such a cool way. The black and white interludes give you information while allowing you to understand what you're seeing in color.

Anyways, this is a great movie that everyone should see at least twice. I think that if you concentrate enough the first time, you should be able to understand the main ideas regarding plot and theme. Sure, the DVD will probably clear some things up, but this movie isn't written in code. You just have to think a little.

Peace

  

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REDeye
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Mon Apr-16-01 08:13 AM

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48. "Do they?"
In response to Reply # 47


          

Do the B/W phone scenes move forward? Or are they simply several phone calls?

They aren't all one phone call. He talks later (earlier) about how someone keeps calling the room. Only after he feels tricked deos he tattoo himself to remember not to talk on the phone. But he's had several calls before then.

I'd love to see this again, but I don't think I will. Too little time.

RED

"Instead of just sitting around, why
don't you kids go out and co-opt
some black culture?"
© a New Yorker cartoon

RED
http://arrena.blogspot.com

  

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zero
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Mon Apr-16-01 08:26 AM

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49. "RE: Do they?"
In response to Reply # 48


          

I'm pretty sure it was a series of two or three phone calls. The first phone call was him going on about Sammy Jankis, and the person says he has to call him back, and later on he does, which is a continuation of the first phone call. That was leading up to Leonard going to the abandoned place .. I think

Dang, I gotta see it again. Freaked me the fuck out...I was afraid of seeing some Australian dude in a suit taking polaroids of me and scrawling notes on it ("likes cereal") n shit

-zero¹
aim name / monkeybars j5
http://www.7moonz.com

  

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Jekyll_Hyde
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Mon Apr-16-01 08:34 AM

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50. "RE: Do they? *spoilers*"
In response to Reply # 49


          

Yeha, it's a couple of phone calls, but they're always with Teddy. Teddy is giving him information about Jimmy Gates, so that he'll go to the abandoned building and kill him.

The black and white scenes are moving forward. Leonard uncovers his tattoo that says not to answer the phone, then he receives the photo of him after he killed John G. under the door (Teddy gives it to him). He answers the phone again, and it's Teddy telling him to meet him in the lobby. Then, Leonard goes to the abandoned building, which is when it turns to color (after he kills Jimmy Gates). The movie ends with him screeching to a halt at the tatoo parlor, which is how the last color scene begins, so it stays true to the structure. Well done, that's all I have to say.

Peace

  

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SPADE
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Tue Apr-17-01 12:32 PM

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56. "RE: Do they? *spoilers*"
In response to Reply # 50


  

          

You also have to realize that "Teddy" is really a undercover cop. He uses Leonard to murder the drug dealers he suppose to be working cases on and Tedyy steals the money if there is any to take. They go from town to town together and find Jimmy G's or Johnny G's.

I gathered that guy at the front desk was working for Dodd or Jimmy Gates. That's why Teddy didn't want his name said outloud.

  

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ya Setshego
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Sun Jun-17-01 12:21 PM

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141. "RE: Do they? *spoilers*"
In response to Reply # 56


  

          

Teddy did not want his name said outloud because he did not want Leonard to realize that HE was John G., which Leonard ended up figuring out anyway after Natalie gave him John G.'s license that she obtained a copy of from a friend.



"Don't Hate the PLAYA Boy...hate the GAME," Granddad Freeman of the Boondocks(7-11-99)

*Twenty-three percent of women are "autoerotic singles" — they prefer to achieve sexual satisfaction alone(source-bet.com)

*If U have won a Grammy, one of two things are at play: 1. Your shit is TIGHT
2. U are white
-(Me)

"'Cuz U answer the phone 'peace' that means U not a freak?"-The Questions(c) Common


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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SPADE
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Sun Jun-17-01 05:19 PM

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143. "RE: Do they? *spoilers*"
In response to Reply # 141


  

          

I still don't think he was the JOHN G just rather another John G. There's no way to tell.

  

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ya Setshego
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Mon Jun-18-01 04:45 AM

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144. "No"
In response to Reply # 143


  

          

Teddy is THE John G. He is the one that Leonard is looking for after he decides to convince himself that J.G. stands for John G. At first we see Leonard look for J.G.s Ultimately, he ends up looking for a John G., who is Teddy, but Teddy did not commit the crime of killing his wife. Leonard did. Leonard just DECIDES that John G. is the one who killed his wife, and sets out to find and murder him. Meanwhile, Teddy is playing Leonard for a fool, and ends up getting played in the end himself(which is what we see as the beginning).


"Don't Hate the PLAYA Boy...hate the GAME," Granddad Freeman of the Boondocks(7-11-99)

*Twenty-three percent of women are "autoerotic singles" — they prefer to achieve sexual satisfaction alone(source-bet.com)

*If U have won a Grammy, one of two things are at play: 1. Your shit is TIGHT
2. U are white
-(Me)

"'Cuz U answer the phone 'peace' that means U not a freak?"-The Questions(c) Common


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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ASTRO
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Mon Jun-18-01 05:47 AM

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146. "RE: No"
In response to Reply # 144


  

          

I disagree. It's my opinion against yours. So chill partner.

  

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ya Setshego
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Wed Jun-20-01 06:18 AM

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149. "I didnot know that"
In response to Reply # 146


  

          

I was "hot".


"Don't Hate the PLAYA Boy...hate the GAME," Granddad Freeman of the Boondocks(7-11-99)

*Twenty-three percent of women are "autoerotic singles" — they prefer to achieve sexual satisfaction alone(source-bet.com)

*If U have won a Grammy, one of two things are at play: 1. Your shit is TIGHT
2. U are white
-(Me)

"'Cuz U answer the phone 'peace' that means U not a freak?"-The Questions(c) Common


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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TDS
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Tue Apr-17-01 12:37 PM

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57. "RE:Jekyll, do not underestimate the capitalist angle"
In response to Reply # 44


          

You're right. I got to watch the movie again. I got doubts about the faking interpretation. But why does he take the trouble to put on the designer clothes of the dealer he killed and to steal his Jag, whatever there is in the trunk? At a certain moment in the movie Teddy tells him Lenny isn't the one he's pretending to be: he was a husband before, working for an insurance company and unable to afford himself designer clothes and a Jag. And so at the end Teddy turns out to have told the truth. Leonard apparently exchanges one role for another role.
If his memory about this period of his husbandlife is still relatively intact, why then does he reject the man he used to be and still remembers. You could say that it's all because of what they have done to his wife: he wants revenge and becomes capable of acting out violence, murder even. But does this revenge/love motif still stand strong, when it's highly possible that he killed his wife? I don't think so. Aren't the designer clothes and the jag also telling you more than he wants us and the other chraracters to believe, corrupting his avenging husband image. This change tells us that his character has gone way beyond the revenge motif/goal. You're right - I've put it too simplistically - this movie isn't about yuppies: a yup's too clean and scared to steal and murder with his own hands, too business-minded and impersonal to love to the extend of revenge. Nevertheless, the signs of a capitalist interest in Lenny's character are clearly there, and he wears them without any notion that this is unnatural for him to do so. This forces us to reconsider the interpretation that he is a mere romantic avenger. He's always been an ambitious man, looking out for an opportunity to make money and gain wealth: as an emloyee in a insurance company, he obviously wants to make a career and as an avenger he found a way to directly get his hands on wealth. Why do you think he writes down Teddy as a bad guy after he killed the dealer, within the five minutes his short-term memory allows him? What do you think his smile signifies when he writes Teddy down as the bad guy?: "I compete against Teddy for the dealer's wealth, and therefore Teddy needs to be eliminated with the help of my disease, cancelling any remorse, becoming more efficient as a player.
This capitalist angle isn't a misinterpretation. It's one of the keys to your interpretation, Jekyll. It explains why memory is unreliable, isn't as true as the one who remembers it wants us to believe. This unreliability or degree of fakeness doesn't stop where his brain disease begins. It is already way into his long-term memory: he isn't the avengeful husband we intially thought he was, becomes more ambibalent, complex or richer (figuratively and literally) when we discover this cheap change of clothing, ... . Besides other angles, the capitalist angle adds up to the complexity of his character, of memory. By the way, are there any other motives besides the capitalist and love/revenge motives? If there aren't, I think that his capitalist intersets corrupt the revenge motif to the extend that he is more of an untstereotypical gangster than he is an avenging husband.

Let me know, while I'm out to watch the movie again.

Ciao, TDS


  

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Jekyll_Hyde
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Tue Apr-17-01 01:55 PM

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58. "RE:Jekyll, do not underestimate the capitalist angle"
In response to Reply # 57


          

While you can argue that Leonard switches clothes and takes the Jag to fulfill his capitalist instincts, I doubt that you can argue that this is his main (or one of his primary) motivations throughout the film.

First of all, it is unclear whether Leonard even knows what is inside the trunk of the Jaguar, because we never see Leonard look straight into the trunk. If you think back (and I remember vividly, because I saw it again on Sunday, and your post made me think about this), you'll remember that he opens the trunk and says "I think I'll hold onto this for awhile" in reference to the gun, and then he throws the gun in the trunk without looking. Even if he does know about the money, he won't remember it, just like he doesn't remember how come he has a Jaguar. This is why Teddy keeps trying to trick him into switching cars.

In the film, Leonard's surface motivation, which is what we witness until the end, is that he wants to avenge his wife. However, the end reveals to us that Leonard manipulates his memory to give himself a reason to live. He took out pages from the police report to create a mystery he couldn't solve. The search for John G. gives his life some kind of meaning. He says it himself: "I have to believe that my actions have meaning. The world just doesn't disappear when you close your eyes.". Through repetition and conditioning, Leonard has learned to make his life somewhat worth living. It provides him with some kind of drive to live.

I don't think that Leonard makes Teddy his John G. because Teddy is competing with him for the money. I think it lies more in the fact that Teddy represents the only person who can remind Leonard that he is lying to himself. Teddy is the only person who can tell him the truth that he's worked so hard to cover up. That is why he writes "Don't believe his lies", because that way, no matter what Teddy says, Leonard can easily dismiss it.

Again, you could make an argument that Leonard switched his clothes to fulfill some kind of capitalistic instinct, I don't think that he refuses to remember his former self because of that. He manipulated his memory way before he switched his clothes. The reason he wants to forget his former self, is that he doesn't want to remember that he helped kill his wife. We don't even know how long he's been on these phony John G. searches. So, you see, the capitalist angle may be true to a certain extent, but it can hardly be argued that it represents one of his primary motivations.

The whole point that is made at the end of the movie, is that everyone modifies their memory in some form or another in order to make their lives more liveable. We remember what we want to remember and omit the things that are truly painful. Leonard is no different, he is only an exaggeration of that.

Oh, just a side note. In future, when you write a long post, could you divide it into paragraphs please? This isn't a criticism of your post, it's just that paragraphs make it easier to read and follow. It's also less discouraging than when you see a huge mass of text. Thanks.

Peace

  

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urbgriot
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Wed May-16-01 05:59 AM

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103. "Memento"
In response to Reply # 42


          

He does manipulate his memory to kill Teddy for revenge and so he will not be manipulated by him again. He also acknowledged that the female was manipulating him but he used her to get at Teddy. They all used each other.

He used Teddy to keep a purpose for his existance.
She used him to seek revenge on Teddy.
Teddy used him to capatilize off of Drug dealers and make money.
He used her to seek revenge on Teddy.

peace...

https://twitter.com/onnextlevel

  

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jigga
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Wed May-16-01 10:21 AM

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106. "RE: Memento"
In response to Reply # 103


  

          

>He does manipulate his memory to
>kill Teddy for revenge and
>so he will not be
>manipulated by him again. He
>also acknowledged that the female
>was manipulating him but he
>used her to get at
>Teddy. They all used each
>other.
>
>He used Teddy to keep a
>purpose for his existance.
>She used him to seek revenge
>on Teddy.
>Teddy used him to capatilize off
>of Drug dealers and make
>money.
>He used her to seek revenge
>on Teddy.

You got it buddy. Thats exactly how I saw it as well

Screw you guys...I'm goin home -Cartman

The mother of civilization, wants 2 know my occupation, home location and means of transportation. The correct combination unlocks her placenta. Ive got a cellular phone w/ a rubba antenna, own a 3 story house, drive a 4 door Ac, favorite song of all time, Mobb Deeps hit it from the back...then jet. -Ras Kass

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Tank
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45. "Favourite Line:"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

"I can't even remember to forget her..."

I saw it yesterday and definitely need to see it again to sort out the questions in my head.

Guy Pearce is amazing...

Peace,

TankdotcomGreen

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---
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REDeye
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Mon Apr-16-01 09:46 AM

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51. "Guy Pearce interview swipe"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Cool interview. I like Pearce better having read this. Don't know that I understand the movie any better, but he points out some of the same things that I thought were the main points of the movie. Read on.



From Independent Feature Project web site:

http://www.ifp.org/docs.cfm/features/current

Guy Pearce speaks about the experience of living backwards through “Memento”
Interview by Lisa Y. Garibay


Guy Pearce appears as relaxed as can be for someone who is the star of a film as complicated and mind-blowing as “Memento.” In the middle of shooting the special effects-heavy remake of “The Time Machine” (directed by H.G. Wells’ great-grandson Simon), Pearce is sporting two-day stubble, greasy-looking longish hair and bright blue eyes that could stop traffic. Aside from this project and another big-budget picture on the approach (this summer’s “Count of Monte Christo”), it may well be the speedily filmed and tightly budgeted “Memento” that brings Pearce the greatest attention this year.

Pearce is compelling from start to finish as Leonard, the survivor of a violent act that ended in the death of his wife. Leonard’s own permanent brain injury resulted in the destruction of his short-term memory, meaning he can remember everything up to the attack but has been unable to make any new lasting memories since then. Leonard’s will to live comes from his quest to track down his wife’s murderer and avenge her death – something not even Leonard is sure he can do if he can’t rely upon his own mind to keep track of what’s right and wrong.


IFP/West: How much research did you feel compelled to do for your character in terms of medical knowledge about memory loss?


I didn’t feel the need really to be quite honest to do much research at all on this job – it’s all there on the page, and my imagination felt wonderfully inspired, and so I went with that.

IFP/West: What was the primary reason you decided to take this role?


Just that – Chris’ observation of this character, this guy in this very extreme situation who’s resorted to very extreme behavior. And the way in which it’s an extreme version of what we all kind of go through on and off at times – the manipulation of memory, the question of our own identity and what we present to other people. I found that quite fascinating.

IFP/West: You’re Australian, Chris is British, and the film is set in the States. Was there ever any thought to setting it in England, or was it always in America?.


Chris has talked about his reasoning for doing this, and America being such a large landscape allows you to have vast areas that you can’t really determine where they are. Whereas England for example, I think it would be…you would fall into that trap of finding something sort of specific, geographically specific, and he didn’t want that – he wanted this sort of vast, desolate sort of landscape, where it kind of could be anywhere in America. He saw it as an American story, I guess in the tradition of film noir in that typical sort of American sense. He wanted to really take the noir that we think we all know and flip it on its head and give it some sort of new twist. So part of that was maintaining that geographical landscape.

IFP/West: Have you ever had a moment where you forgot something inexplicably?


Yeah! I constantly feel paranoid that I’m forgetting something, you know? That’s why I don’t drink coffee anymore, because if I drink a cup of coffee I sit there all day going, “I know I forgot something but I don’t know what the hell it is!” I always feel like I’m aware of memory or that I have a bad memory; my wife will tell me that I don’t have a bad memory, but I feel that I do at times.

IFP/West: Do you think “Memento” is about memory or memory loss – or both?


Well, I think it’s about our perception of memory, and that we do take memory for granted. And that I think we often lose our memory and yet we’ll pretend that we haven’t and in order to maintain some sort of identity, we’ll say our memory is this: a, b, and c. When, in actual fact, if someone really questioned you on it or showed you a photo of that thing that you’re talking about, you might realize that you’ve actually manipulated it and changed it a little bit. And that falsehood that goes on in everyone’s lives at some point or another I think is definitely one of the sort of large elements of what the film is about. It relates to identity as well, you know. I mean, if you lose your memory, then you lose your identity.

IFP/West: But Leonard could recall when he did have memory.


Well, that’s the thing he’s hanging on to. But even then there’s the question of whether or not those memories were true.

IFP/West: Something is driving him, even though he doesn’t know what it is – something keeps pushing him forward. What would you say that is for Leonard?


An inability to say, “I don’t know who I am anymore.” It’s an emotional drive that he can’t…I mean, he says that at the end: “One of the worst things about this condition is that you feel angry, you don’t know why; you feel guilty, you have no idea why.” And so in a sense, he’s just operating on a completely emotional level, but not wanting to admit that it’s just an emotional level and is trying to be quite technical about it all.

IFP/West: What is it about you that makes you like acting?


(Long pause) I don’t know how much I do like acting. I feel that I’ve always used acting in my life as a survival technique; that’s why I don’t feel at times that I’m a real actor who does his homework and all that stuff. I got into acting when I was pretty young. It is a survival technique sometimes in the way that it is for Leonard. It’s a fear of being boring, fear of being uninteresting, fear of looking scared. A response to perhaps when I was younger and I’d be thinking about something and my mother would say to me, “Get that miserable look off your face,” and I would say , “Oh, I’m not miserable! I’m happy! Ha ha ha ha!” Now someone pays me to do it, so I constantly question it and I constantly question the value of it and I see that it sort of perpetuates those insecurities, so if I could actually find something a bit more valuable to do for myself...

IFP/West: What about your music? I hear you’re a pretty prolific musician – would you ever give that more attention or bring it into the limelight?


Well…I’m always playing music at home, and because of the position that I’ve got myself into now…. I don’t know. I use music for the reasons that I think one should, which is to play and express one’s self. But I don’t necessarily feel the need to take it into the public arena. My ego would love me to, but my ego is feeling quite satisfied with all the attention that I get anyway from this, so I would only be transferring one to the other.

IFP/West: Would that explain why after “LA Confidential”, Russell Crowe has gone into big commercial films and you haven’t? Is it something you’ve been withdrawing from? You want the big pictures, surely?


Why do you say that? Why do you think I want the big pictures?

IFP/West: Well, that’s part of the acting – you’re acting, you’re performing, you want as many people as possible to see you.


I don’t know that I want as many people as possible to see me. I think that’s an assumption that seems to be made and that assumption obviously gets fueled by the fact that more and more actors become more and more famous. And for those who aren’t famous, there is definitely that little quality in everybody that and some point or another says, “I want to be famous, and that person over there’s famous and they’re so lucky and I’m not!” And so I think that makes one think – an outsider – think, “Well, if you’re an actor, you surely just want to become more and more and more and more famous.” But I find as an actor the more recognition I get, the more anxious I become at times because…I don’t know that I see the value of it. I don’t see that it’s valuable for me personally—it certainly doesn’t make me any more calm. It actually just heightens insecurities and paranoia. So, I’m constantly battling with it, I'm in a quandary about it, I don’t quite know what to do about it.

IFP/West: How is Chris Nolan different from other directors you’ve worked with?


Chris is a highly intelligent guy, very respectful of what I do as an actor and what actors do, and when you have someone that respects that so much, it gives you the freedom to experiment and go with it. You don’t feel stifled by somebody’s opinion. I’ve worked with directors before with whom you suddenly realize that you’re just a piece of meat. And I crumble under that, you know what I mean? I go, “I don’t have the technical ability to cope with this very well.” And because Chris wrote this script, he’s an obvious example of what a bright and perceptive person he is.

IFP/West: Were you and Chris always on the same page with the characterization of Leonard?


Yeah! I mean it was almost like Chris – to put it in a really crude way – went, “Here’s the script,” and I read it and went, “Oh, wow!” and he said, “Have you got it? Good, okay… Well, I’ll go and shoot it now, and you just do what it is that you do, and I’ll tell you if you’ve gone off on the wrong direction or not.” And so we then cruised along together – well, we didn’t cruise, we sort of rapidly sprinted along together in our twenty-six day shoot. (Laughs) But we worked side-by-side, he beautifully capturing what I was doing, and I gave him what he felt the character was supposed to give. So it was incredibly positive and exciting. I reckon I would love if every movie was like this—and I don’t just mean the finished product, I mean the process of making it — then I wouldn’t struggle with it so much.

IFP/West: Was the role of Leonard as hard as it looked?


I thought it was going to be not hard but a really wonderful challenge. I bashed and sort of boggled my way through the process of just making sure that Chris and I were on the same page with each other. And then when I came out the other side of that just after we started shooting, it felt really quite…buoyant, and it just flowed really beautifully.

IFP/West: You were in almost every scene of this movie – probably more so than any other film you’ve ever been in. Did that coupled with the short shooting schedule make it more challenging for you to nail the character?


It made it better in a way. I find it difficult sometimes if you’re doing a four-month shoot, and if you work for a day and you’ve got five days off then work for a day and get five days off…. I always say I’m not very good at working and being a tourist at the same time. I’d rather go to work all day every day with the crew and just carry on, which is what I’m doing at the moment; it’s great. And it was the same thing with “Memento” – you just kind of live and breathe this whole experience, and then as soon as it’s finished you go, “Great! That’s over; I can drop that and forget about that!” That energy really suits me, I think.

END






RED

"Instead of just sitting around, why
don't you kids go out and co-opt
some black culture?"
© a New Yorker cartoon

RED
http://arrena.blogspot.com

  

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janey
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Mon Apr-16-01 09:52 AM

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52. "this"
In response to Reply # 51


  

          

"And the way in which it’s an extreme version of what we all kind of go through on and off at times – the manipulation of memory, the question of our own identity and what we present to other people. I found that quite fascinating."

Why I loved that film. The whole question of identity.

I don't know whether I'll see it a second time. If I do, I think I'll give it plenty of time between viewings. I have a feeling that the impact of the film will be more effective and in fact more lasting if I leave it with some open questions. Then I'll keep thinking about it longer than if I thought I had it all figured out.

Peace.


~ ~ ~
All meetings end in separation
All acquisition ends in dispersion
All life ends in death
- The Buddha

|\_/|
='_'=

Every hundred years, all new people

  

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Ornery
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53. "yay! saw it"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Saw it Satuday...with a bunch of nukkas who didn't pay attention. Whispering through the whole thing..."did that happen before or after ___?"..."did he really ______?"..."who'd that ____?". See it with your smart friends if you go, I love my peoples but someone was going to catch it in their grill.

ornery

  

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Ornery
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55. "Interesting goof..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

Brought to you by the nitpickers at Internet Movie Database: If Lenny couldn't make any new memories after the accident, how did he remember that he couldn't make any new memories after the accident?

ornery

  

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Jason_A
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Wed Apr-18-01 08:09 AM

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59. "not a goof"
In response to Reply # 55


  

          

I think his tatoo of "remember sammy jenkins" is supposed to be the reminder of his condition...

------------

75% of men masturbate. The other 25% are lying

"You will lose." - Ivan Drago aka He-Man aka Dolph Lundgren

---------------------
AIM: jdawgtheaggie



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Melanism
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Wed Apr-18-01 09:35 AM

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60. "RE: not a goof"
In response to Reply # 59


          

>I think his tatoo of "remember
>sammy jenkins" is supposed to
>be the reminder of his
>condition...

in reality, a reminder of what he'd done...


m e l a n i s m

http://www.melanism.com

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Quote of the Year:
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(on why he is not going to watch the Academy Awards ceremony)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WARNING: if you are reading this then this warning is for you. every word you read off this useless fine print is another second off your life. don't you have other things to do? is your life so empty that you honestly can't think of a better way to spend these moments? or are you so impressed with authority that you give respect and credence to all who claim it? do you read everything you're supposed to read? do you think everything you're supposed to think? buy what you're told to want? get out of your apartment. meet a member of the opposite sex. stop the excessive shopping and masturbation. quit your job. start a fight. prove you're alive. if you don't claim your humanity, you will become a statistic. you have been warned.--tyler durden

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nuszik
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Sun May-06-01 07:43 AM

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66. "RE: not a goof"
In response to Reply # 60


  

          

Me and some friends watched it last night on a DVD rental(UK), we missed it when it came out on cinema and so took the opportunity to view it. DAMN!!!

We've come up with pretty much the same questions y'all have come up with and some similar conclusions. However something we picked up on which may be true or not is that Leonard (we're still thinking about the whole thing) actually knows what he's doing but he's lied to himself so much about a so called condition that he now believes that he has a 'condition' (speculative). Also, killing John G. is the only time that he is truly HAPPY and is the only thing that he has to live for.

However all of these were questions/conclusions that came up during the movie, but the main discussion point was the last thing he says in the movie which casts an amazing doubt over everything, especially his condition.

"Now, where was I?" - why the FUCK would he say that?

  

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HotSpittable
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115. "you are so wrong, man"
In response to Reply # 60


          

he was not sammy jenkis.

  

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HotSpittable
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68. "Don't call me lenny...."
In response to Reply # 0


          

oh man. i posted this like a week ago and it sank like a rock. ahh well, what you gonna do. that lil OK symbol must grant some special powers. yeah, it was amazing, 'specially how you felt like you had his injury cos it was all backwards. i saw it twice, i think i have the story together totally now. but there's no way i'm gonna bother to type the whole complex-ass thing here.

  

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stoves
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Tue May-08-01 09:40 AM

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69. "one more question"
In response to Reply # 0


          

okay, so leonard was the one that tried to get the insurance claim but failed because it was a mental , not physical problem.

-then how does he remember the story about sammy jenkins if it wasnt a memory, but a lie. how does he remember the same lie over and over?


  

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spirit
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Fri May-11-01 02:27 AM

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77. "million dollar question!"
In response to Reply # 69


  

          

hot damn!

then sammy must be real!

because even if the sammy story was part true (as alleged by teddy when he says sammy was a con man), then lenny would never be able to remmeber the parts that were lies. not without consulting his notes every 10 minutes anyway.

hmmm.

Thoughtfully yours,

Spirit Equality

MAY IS "J.U.I.C.E. IS ILL AS HELL" MONTH. GET THIS MAN'S MATERIAL BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY.

"Sincerely"
When I design rhyme in daylight
Or primetime I stay tight
I walk the fine line
between an emcee and a playwright
I represent the underground world, it's a unique scene
There's no record deals, no videos and street teams
I do shows to keep green
I know I'm not a star man,
I'm signed to myself
And my mic's my A&R man
In double nine I guess it's just a sign of the times
The spotlight that I've been looking for is finally mine
I never thought about the dough when I'm designing my rhyme
As long as I can reach my peoples over vinyl I'm fine
It ain't about that
I opened up for cats who ain't as dope as me
While I ripped the flow, they lip synched the show hopelessly
From Heaven I was sent to the game to entertain
I may never pimp that '75 ta cop that blue Range Rover
But even if I don't remain sober
I'ma score double digits
till the fuckin' games over

- J.U.I.C.E. (from '99), "Sincerely"

ps: COMICS ARTIST NEEDED!!!!!!!! INBOX ME!!!!!

http://www.mp3.com/miscellaneousflux -
Just listen, you will believe...

"In the first forty years of the twentieth century, about half of all
blacks who were killed, were killed by law enforcement." - Tim Wise, shocking statistic of the moment

"Smack it up, Flip It, Rub It Down.. OH NOOOO!! - This always intrigued me. What horrible catastrophe was caused by rubbing it down? If he just stopped after flipping it could this tragedy have been avoided?" - jsmooth995, LOL of the month


Peace,

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Melanism
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78. "i think...(spoil)"
In response to Reply # 77


          

-sammy jenkins was definately a real but sammie's story and what actually happened to leonard's wife were blurred in his mind...

like he told teddy,

"memory is unreliable"

m e l a n i s m

http://www.melanism.com
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"it is a fool's perogative to utter truths that no one else will speak."
--dream
'The Sandman' by Neil Gaiman

"i keep thinking that being a baby must be like being abducted by aliens in a crap sci-fi film. there are creatures endlessy peering at you, making incomprehensible noises, playing with your arse a lot while you protest loudly. you can't tell anybody what's wrong or explain yourself. you have no points of reference as to where you are, no language in which to form thoughts, and when you go back to sleep you return to the milky heaven whence you came..."
--thom yorke
'blender' magazine: june/july 2001

-------------------
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stoves
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Fri May-11-01 06:40 AM

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80. "so you are saying.."
In response to Reply # 78


          

so youre saying you think sammy jenkins is a real guy that had a memory problem, and lenny was the insurance claim guy on his case. and after some horrendous act of karma leonard got the same memory problem but mixed the story of sammy jenkins with his story. so he remembers what he did to his wife but just as another person. ughgh once you think you understand this movie everything falls apart.

  

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REDeye
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Fri May-11-01 06:57 AM

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81. "arrgh!"
In response to Reply # 80


          

You guys are OVERTHINKING IT!

The MOVIE doesn't fall apart. The plot tricks and gimmicks are what fall apart. When they do, what you are left with is a brilliant film.

RED

"Sounds like Zen," I said. "Interesting
enough in itself as a system of
thought, but not much
good for explaining anything."
© Haruki Murakami, The Wind-Up
Bird Chronicle.

RED
http://arrena.blogspot.com

  

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Jekyll_Hyde
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Fri May-11-01 07:34 AM

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82. "Exactly"
In response to Reply # 81


          

The movie is great and it works. Instead of trying to find faults in the plot (and you people are trying WAY too hard), you should be asking yourself deeper questions that the movie brings up about memory and identity.

Stop trying to find a way to bring the movie down and just enjoy it.

Peace

  

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Melanism
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Fri May-11-01 07:53 AM

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83. "man, i will never hate"
In response to Reply # 81


          

this film defines a moviegoing experience...

m e l a n i s m

http://www.melanism.com
home of mel's ego, id, and superego & the sith pimp

The Offshul 5 Deadly Venoms Spitters Webpage
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--read DVS bios, read venom, sign the guestbook and spit your own venom--

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***even if you did, get a grip***

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"it is a fool's perogative to utter truths that no one else will speak."
--dream
'The Sandman' by Neil Gaiman

"i keep thinking that being a baby must be like being abducted by aliens in a crap sci-fi film. there are creatures endlessy peering at you, making incomprehensible noises, playing with your arse a lot while you protest loudly. you can't tell anybody what's wrong or explain yourself. you have no points of reference as to where you are, no language in which to form thoughts, and when you go back to sleep you return to the milky heaven whence you came..."
--thom yorke
'blender' magazine: june/july 2001

-------------------
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jigga
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Mon May-14-01 05:59 AM

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84. "RE: My take on the Sammy thing"
In response to Reply # 83


  

          

Leonard is Sammy or vice versa however you wanna look @ it. I just saw the movie 4 the 2nd time this wknd and it becomes clear 2 me that after Leonard and his wife are attacked Leonard suffers the condition and his wife can no longer live w/ him living his life w/ this particualr condition especially if she doesnt believe he really has the condition.

They also show flashbacks which suggest that this is true becuz they show Leornard giving his wife the shots 2wards the end of the film. He ends up killing her but cant remember that it was him that did it so Teddy actually finds the other guy in the room, they kill him, Leonard still doesnt recall this so Teddy begins 2 lead him on a chase 4 a mysterious "nobody" and along the waty uses him 4 his own benefits i.e 2 kill James G (Natalie's boyfreind) who was invlolced w/ drugs w/ Teddy and later on Natalie uses Leornard 2 get revenge on Teddy as Leornard kills Teddy.

Incredible flim, and honestly right now its the best movie Ive ever seen and currently my favorite of all time. Great acting and completely original.

Screw you guys...I'm goin home -Cartman

The mother of civilization, wants 2 know my occupation, home location and means of transportation. The correct combination unlocks her placenta. Ive got a cellular phone w/ a rubba antenna, own a 3 story house, drive a 4 door Ac, favorite song of all time, Mobb Deeps hit it from the back...then jet. -Ras Kass

...she said, "Do you have a car? Is your shit up 2 par?" Damn! a nigga need a resume just sittin at tha bar! -Ras Kass

Cuz bitches are like flies(why)they attract 2 the best shit. -Ras Kass

Cowards make a little cheese, then enlarge artificially, like Pamela Anderson Lee's double D's, please! I'm bangin from Belize 2 Tel Aviv in tha Red Sea racin Saddam Hussien on Kawasaki jet skies. -Ras Kass

18 willin rednecks, sendin me death threats, cuz their niece fantasize about wet sex, when I'm in her headsets. -Opio from Souls of Mischief

Tryin 2 do all I can do in this car...her mom's Jaguar -A-plus from Souls of Mischief

You think you're able 2 label the Hiero sound? You still havent found a comparable variable -Del

You live on the edge? I live on the San Andreas. -Evidence

I AINT GOT TIME 4 NO JIBBA JABBA!!!-Mr.T





  

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UrbanCowgRRL
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Tue May-15-01 11:01 PM

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99. "i wanna overthink"
In response to Reply # 69


  

          

exactly ...sammy would have to be REALLY blurred with lenny's life to go through the shock therapy sessions..the insurance claims ..the tattoos where already there in the flashback, which would be too odd.....i still ain't buyin' it...period. sammy does not equal lenny.


I think it added a touch of the good old Karma to the story, and threw you off..because he did screw the couple over..and bam..look who got memory loss down the road....

can i get a hundred up here?


Much love,
Kyle

go vote for me, cause i'm extreme and deserve to be on TV..oh yeah, and i'll buy tara something too

http://bluetorch.tv/host/voteforme.asp?id=41472

****************************************
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much love,
Kyle

Detroit..Let's GO!!! May 12th Dilla Walk for Lupus...Belle Isle...

http://walk.lupusresearch.org/goto/blackeyedskeez

Even a Dollar can HELP..


http://www.myspace.com/jedikyle
http://www.detroitderbygirls.com/

  

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isisbabyboy

Mon May-14-01 09:47 AM

  
85. "very OK....but still just ok"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I'm probably going to get blasted but this movie was not at all what it was cracked up to be....I went to Rotten Tomatoes and it got a high rating from the majority of the reviewers, so I thought I was in for a treat. Unfortunaely I have not learned how to not trust everyones opinion. Will someone please give me a reason to truly like this movie, I mean it wasn't bad at all, but for the cleverness of the theme, the story could have been alot better, especially the plot. At the end I'm like, so I've been sitting here intrigued as hell for two hours for this? I don't know, I think the movie was thoughtful,visionary, and artsy is an understatement, but to me that doesn't always equate to good. I guess I'm still waiting for something in 2001 to blow my mind. Something better than Requiem For A Dream, which I feel is one of the best films in recent years.

  

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REDeye
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Mon May-14-01 10:16 AM

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86. "You don't have to like it"
In response to Reply # 85


          

The thing about trusting others' opinions is that you really need to understand WHY they liked or didn't like it. For example, if you everyone is telling you the Matrix is great, they might get you hyped on it. But if they are telling you it's great because it's got flying kicks and great action -- and you don't go for that sort of thing, chances are you'll be disappointed in the movie.

The twists and gimmicks in Memento are cool but, as some have realized here, if you think about them too much you start to find holes in them. Or you start to think that the movie was nothing but gimmicks, which is cool, but doesn't make for a memorable (no pun intended) movie.

Read some of my posts on this thread. There's a lot more to this movie that what most people discussing. Long after I stopped caring about the twists, I'm still considering the themes played out in the movie. The climax, which a lot of people completely missed, is one of the most impactful revelations I've ever seen on film. Then again, this sort of thing may not appeal to you.

If, after you've read through the varying opinions and thoughts in this thread, you still don't think the movie was great, that's alright. As long as you understand it all before you dismiss it.

You are not required to like it though.

RED
I'm like that guy who used a pointed stick instead of a rock.

RED
http://arrena.blogspot.com

  

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UrbanCowgRRL
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Tue May-15-01 08:43 PM

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89. "BEFORE I READ ALL THESE"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

holy shit..this is why independent films are the shit..no hype over said actor/ess..no flashy shit, just a damn fine film..

first off...you just start piecing together the scenes to try to find a rhythm or a sense of time...just as you start to get it...YOU forget the details, on some lenny shit..so i go back to the beginning...bloody wall picture, shoots teddy/john G , glasses/gun go back into his hand...we're now in rewind mode, BUT..damnit i forgot why they went to that building again?!?!?...i know Teddy comes to the Inn and the desk dude points him out..and he then has the kill him note on the picture...but why do the go to the building where he killed the drug dude?

damn natalie FUCKED with him..shit, that one scene was scarry (the Dodd hit me shit)..yikes!

(i really hope someone reads this)...but yo, piecing it together..all that shit John says is just to fuck w/ him right? cause the ONLY time you see a flash back w/ needles and her laying on him w/ tattoos already was when John was saying those things...i choose to believe John and the dealer (Jamie (sp/name?)..natalies boyfriend..SEE it's fucking with MY shorterm memory) killed the wife (why else would he have been unconscious on the floor, she died..he would NOT have remember the insulin shots and shit that was after the accident)..he got the tattoo early on, to remember...it DID say "raped and murdered my wife"...i'm set on the fact she didn't stay alive and sammie was true...sammie was also b4 the accident so he remembers it..

okay, with that said...this teddy dude was actually kinda smart to just completely fuck w/ him to get him out of town..but why would he call him and tell him all the facts? ..wait,that was Jamie calling him to lead him to John, and John was doing the same shit??...and OF course natalie wants to see John dead..she was damn smart..she could piece together that teddy set the memory loss dude up with the car and clothes...but they ALL knew bout the memory loss guy (even natalie) so there were two at the scene...

in the end, good old lenny beat the odds...he did it..with his freak tattoos and all!!

i LOVED it...gotta see it again..

why was I DYING at some parts..hysterically laughing..

"so i got two rooms in this shit hole now"


Much love,
Kyle

go vote for me, cause i'm extreme and deserve to be on TV..oh yeah, and i'll buy tara something too

http://bluetorch.tv/host/voteforme.asp?id=41472

****************************************
let ang be a rock star! no more moderating for her!

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****************************************

much love,
Kyle

Detroit..Let's GO!!! May 12th Dilla Walk for Lupus...Belle Isle...

http://walk.lupusresearch.org/goto/blackeyedskeez

Even a Dollar can HELP..


http://www.myspace.com/jedikyle
http://www.detroitderbygirls.com/

  

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Whanoon
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Tue May-15-01 09:31 PM

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91. ".."
In response to Reply # 89


          

You understood the relevance of the insurance salesman story right?

Lenny used pieces of his memory combined with his own past to help him remember (to some extent) his pain.

His wife lived through the rape. Her eyes opened. Teddy was a dirty cop, but not as evil as we were believing throughout the movie. Lenny needed a reason to live, all his actions are influenced by the little notes he writes himself.

The best line--
"You're not a killer, that's why you're so good at it"

Teddy to Lenny

Teddy was using Lenny as a killing machine steal money from drug dealers.

At least this is what I believe, or what I want to believe. And that's the point. That's why the movie is so damn good.

"It's terrible sometimes, inside, that's what's the trouble. You walk these streets, black and funky and cold, and there's not really a living ass to talk to, and there's nothing shaking, and there's no way of getting it out-that storm inside. You can't talk it and you can't make love with it, and when you finally try to get with it and play it, you realize nobody's listening. So you've got to listen. You got to find a way to listen."- James Baldwin "Sonny's Blues"

"I wish to defecate"-Company man

"Power concedes nothing without demand. It never has and it never will."- Frederick Douglass

  

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UrbanCowgRRL
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Tue May-15-01 09:40 PM

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93. "see now"
In response to Reply # 91


  

          

shit i forget now, either i think my post 90, i saw that side too..i could see how that *could* possibly work...

but i really don't think he would have made the whole sammie story up, if it were b4, it'd be something he could remember...and yes, her eyes opened, but we NEVER see what happened after blood comes out his head...he fires a shot and BAM hits the window...WHY oh WHY would he have 'raped and murdered' on his chest with his wife laying on it!! (that was the flash back when Teddy was explaining it to him)

again, only great movies make you think and think and think


Much love,
Kyle

go vote for me, cause i'm extreme and deserve to be on TV..oh yeah, and i'll buy tara something too

http://bluetorch.tv/host/voteforme.asp?id=41472

****************************************
let ang be a rock star! no more moderating for her!

Need Posting help...Go here----->http://www.okayplayer.com/guidelines.html

Want that incredible deep post of yours or your friends archived, email me through the boards...Or use the handy private message button
****************************************

much love,
Kyle

Detroit..Let's GO!!! May 12th Dilla Walk for Lupus...Belle Isle...

http://walk.lupusresearch.org/goto/blackeyedskeez

Even a Dollar can HELP..


http://www.myspace.com/jedikyle
http://www.detroitderbygirls.com/

  

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UrbanCowgRRL
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Tue May-15-01 11:08 PM

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100. "damnit Where's ?uest"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

aka I just wanted to be one hundred

this is his kinda thread/ his kinda flick

shit i didn't hear bout it till his friend (so he claims) told me about it (fine job he did acting out some scenes too!)..


Much love,
Kyle

go vote for me, cause i'm extreme and deserve to be on TV..oh yeah, and i'll buy tara something too

http://bluetorch.tv/host/voteforme.asp?id=41472

****************************************
let ang be a rock star! no more moderating for her!

Need Posting help...Go here----->http://www.okayplayer.com/guidelines.html

Want that incredible deep post of yours or your friends archived, email me through the boards...Or use the handy private message button
****************************************

much love,
Kyle

Detroit..Let's GO!!! May 12th Dilla Walk for Lupus...Belle Isle...

http://walk.lupusresearch.org/goto/blackeyedskeez

Even a Dollar can HELP..


http://www.myspace.com/jedikyle
http://www.detroitderbygirls.com/

  

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jigga
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31583 posts
Wed May-16-01 05:54 AM

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102. "RE: DVD PLEASE!!!"
In response to Reply # 100


  

          

Everyones got great opinions on how they preceive this movie but I'm tellin you right now, I'm gonna go crazy if theres no directors commentary on this DVD (whenever it comes out) or if Nolan chooses 2 let us think we know whats really goin on when all the while the actual intentions will go untold. The person we really need on this post is the directors brother cuz he's the one that deserves a lot of credit since he wrote the story. My mind hasnt unravled this much since watching Fight Club. Any other flick I see w/n the next several months just wont be able 2 live up now that Ive seen Memento (twice)

Screw you guys...I'm goin home -Cartman

The mother of civilization, wants 2 know my occupation, home location and means of transportation. The correct combination unlocks her placenta. Ive got a cellular phone w/ a rubba antenna, own a 3 story house, drive a 4 door Ac, favorite song of all time, Mobb Deeps hit it from the back...then jet. -Ras Kass

...she said, "Do you have a car? Is your shit up 2 par?" Damn! a nigga need a resume just sittin at tha bar! -Ras Kass

Cuz bitches are like flies(why)they attract 2 the best shit. -Ras Kass

Cowards make a little cheese, then enlarge artificially, like Pamela Anderson Lee's double D's, please! I'm bangin from Belize 2 Tel Aviv in tha Red Sea racin Saddam Hussien on Kawasaki jet skies. -Ras Kass

18 willin rednecks, sendin me death threats, cuz their niece fantasize about wet sex, when I'm in her headsets. -Opio from Souls of Mischief

Tryin 2 do all I can do in this car...her mom's Jaguar -A-plus from Souls of Mischief

You think you're able 2 label the Hiero sound? You still havent found a comparable variable -Del

You live on the edge? I live on the San Andreas. -Evidence

I AINT GOT TIME 4 NO JIBBA JABBA!!!-Mr.T





  

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REDeye
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6598 posts
Wed May-16-01 06:33 AM

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105. "read the short story"
In response to Reply # 102


          

http://www.esquire.com/features/articles/001323_mfr_memento_1.html

The director's brother came up wih the idea, but the script and the short story were written separately. And while it may serve as justification for some of the ideas people believe about the movie, they really are completely different. It's not like the director read the story and then based his script off of it.

And here's one of many interviews with the director. It sheds some light on the process, but still doesn't answer all the questions people have. It's a cool interview though.

http://www.indiewire.com/film/interviews/int_Nolan_Christoph_010316.html

RED
I'm like that guy who used a pointed stick instead of a rock.

RED
http://arrena.blogspot.com

  

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nuszik
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587 posts
Wed May-16-01 06:12 AM

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104. "flasback with his wife laying on him..."
In response to Reply # 100


  

          

i dont think this was an actual flashback or just a visualisation of his - FUCK IT!! - I dont know, but what i do know is that during this visualisation/flashback, the tattoo that he has near his heart says "I DID IT". If u remember earlier in the film, Natalie asks him why he hasn't got a tattoo on that spot and he says sumthin like "I'm keeping it for when I kill John G, so that i can remember" or sum shit like that.

  

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fatlip
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1954 posts
Mon Jun-04-01 09:20 AM

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134. "EXACTLY"
In response to Reply # 104


          

That and the aforementioned quick edit of Sammy (or whatever that guy's name was) being replaced by Lenny as he sits in the mental ward....it's like a two second shot.

all this implies what it implies.....




I'm the offspring of spring,
reborn pledged and sworn,
the risen edge of a flag burned and torn.
I'm the blood of the womb,
the risen tide of the moon,
the darkside that the light cannot hide.
I'm the pages of history
read between the lines,
the living truth behind your symbols and signs.
I'm the son of a minister,
love of a teacher,
my mother taught me well, so I rebel.
-Saul Williams "Om Nia Merican"


  

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Melanism
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Thu May-17-01 04:16 AM

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110. "can't believe it's been a month n/m"
In response to Reply # 0


          

m e l a n i s m

http://www.melanism.com
home of mel's ego, id, and superego & the sith pimp

The Offshul 5 Deadly Venoms Spitters Webpage
http://melanism.com/dvs
--read DVS bios, read venom, sign the guestbook and spit your own venom--

What??? I deleted your post? Did you read the guidelines?
(http://www.okayplayer.com/guidelines.html)
***even if you did, get a grip***

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"it is a fool's perogative to utter truths that no one else will speak."
--dream
'The Sandman' by Neil Gaiman

"they butcher my work. they reproduce themselves without asking. they're never warm or friendly. the keys are in the wrong place. they don't go fast enough. they're heavy. they go out of date too fast. they're not loud enough. they're made by cheap labor. they keep changing the date to 1942 and then labeling all files accordingly. they never actually find the virus. they talk to each other but you can't hear. they are not logical."
--thom yorke on computers
'blender' magazine: june/july 2001

-------------------
http://twitter.com/Melanism

  

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Solarus
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3604 posts
Fri May-18-01 03:31 PM

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111. "Just saw the movie"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

on May 16.

I saw this post and went to the website and was intrigued. I thought I came out on May 16 when I went to the website. (I don't watch TV and never heard of it.) I assumed this post was new and did not realize that it just came up to the front. I saw "March 16" and was thinking "May 16." Anyway movie was good.

The ONLY SEVERE PROBLEM with the movie was when Lenny went to take a shower in Dodd's place and Dodd came in and took a piss.

HOW CAN YOU NOT TELL THAT SOMEONE IS IN YOUR SHOWER!!!!?????

Steam? Noise?

Dodd was a bod man with a gun. He would have bust a cap in the showerer w/o asking questions. Geez,

THAT WAS TERRIBLE!!!!!

They could have fixed that up better.

How come GREAT movies usually have at least ONE overly terrible mistake??? Come on now...

PEace
Solarus

PEace
Solarus

***Words of Wisdom***

"If it's not about NATIONBUILDING, it's not about ANYTHING."- Dr. John Henrik Clarke

"We are not the victims! We are just fighting forces that we cannot see!"-2001 Sankofa Conference

"You don't have the RIGHT to have free time from your children."-Kwame Agyei Akoto

"It is the worst feeling to hear the call of the drum and not be able to respond."-Solarus

On understanding Afrakan thought:
"it's like explaining astrophysics to a whino, the explanation can't be done like that. when people try to simplify it, they ask the other person to tailor the answers their cultural context. and trying to cater afrikan ideals to european understanding is a REAL sin."-utamaroho

____________________________
"the real pyramids were built with such precision that you can't slide a piece of paper between two 4,000 lb stones, and have shafts perfectly aligned so that you can see a tiny aperture through dozens of these mammoth blocks

  

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altruist
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190 posts
Sat May-19-01 08:32 PM

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114. "RE: Memento"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I saw memento again tonite ,,,,,,,did anyone notice that towards the end when they should sammy jankiss in the nuthouse for a split second he became leonard shelby,,,just noticed the second time round,,,




"Snootch to the muthafuckin nootch"-Jay

"How much can you know about yourself if you've never been in a fight"-Tyler durden


"Just because you're style is booty doesn't mean you the shit"--Talib Kweli

"Ya'll niggas tickle me like elmo"--Talib Kweli


  

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HotSpittable
Charter member
456 posts
Sun May-20-01 03:29 PM

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116. "The Name Schtick"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Sammy

Lenny

Natalie

Teddy

Jimmy

all the main characters' names end with an "ee"

weird, huh?

haha

  

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spirit
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Sun May-20-01 09:08 PM

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117. "makes em hard to remember"
In response to Reply # 116


  

          

when you're talking about each one.

clever, eh?

Thoughtfully yours,

Spirit Equality

The Rebels are coming...be aware...

http://www.mp3.com/miscellaneousflux - God is hiding between the notes


Peace,

Spirit (Alan)
http://wutangbook.com

  

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BigWorm
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10385 posts
Mon May-28-01 10:18 AM

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124. "whoa"
In response to Reply # 0


          

great flick.

had to see it twice.

So well done. Good acting. Great script, brilliant directing. I was so impressed with this movie. Best thriller I've seen in years.

This movie stands next to the Usual Suspects as two of the only great REAL film noirs made in maybe the last twenty years.

1Love,
BigPerm

LATER FOR YOU.

IN THE DECK:

Jeff Buckley - Grace @@@@1/2
Joni Mitchell - Both Sides now @@@@1/2
Camp Lo - Uptown Saturday Night @@@@
Blues Traveler - Straight on Til Mornin' @@@@
Johnny Guitar Watson - Bob Wow @@@@
Ruby - Salt Peter @@@
Tool - Lateralus @@@1/2
Pixies - Come on Pilgrim @@@@@
The Breeders - POD @@@1/2
Joni Mitchell - Dog Eat Dog (???)
Sons of Soul - @@1/2 but I haven't given it it's due yet...

can someone please tell me when all the great hip-hop albums are going to be released???

  

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bassmonk

Mon May-28-01 01:36 PM

  
125. "whewww"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Man what a movie! I just peeped it last night and it's all I heard it to be and more. I loved the opening scene.. how the director (who is he?) uses his cameras throughout... its just a thoroughly well done movie. All I need to do now is see it again so I can figure out what the %&$#% went on.

  

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Dave

Tue May-29-01 07:15 AM

  
129. "RE: Memento"
In response to Reply # 0


          


Word Up. I left the movie dazed and confused 'n all f*cked up in the head. But you're right, gotta see it twice, it's bugged how they did the plot line so you actually feel like the guy with the "condition."

"That's strange, I don't Feel drunk..." --Memento

"He liked commercials. They're short." also memento.

  

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AdSmock

Sat Jun-02-01 05:50 PM

  
130. "THIS MOVIE...."
In response to Reply # 129


          

I have to say that after seeing it (tonite) I am quite perplexed. At first I tried to focus on what was actually happening, but that became cloudy because of the way the plot was set up to actually discourage that kind of thinking. After the movie, I almost felt like I had seen an incomplete movie. NOt to say it wasn't amazing, just that it seemed like there was so much more to be explained. In fact, I felt like the ending made the movie seem less like a murder-mystery, and more like a horror flick (Later I realized that it was a play on the concept of the human memory complex). Leonard had created those illusions, trying to feel some need to seek out a killer, yet there were multiple possibilities, and even if there was a killer, it wouldn't matter.

My questions are:
1) What the hell was Dodd's significance in the movie?
2) Why was Natalie acting so sneaky?
3) Why did Leonard have the tatoos while his wife was alive?

If anyone can answer these questions, that would be cool.

  

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Cool Cork Kneivel
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Mon Jun-04-01 10:20 AM

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135. "RE: THIS MOVIE...."
In response to Reply # 130


  

          

Dodd was the guy sent to kill Natalie and/or whoever killed Jimmy. Sent by jimmy's bosses. Natalie says this to Lenny when she's trippin' on him in the house. She gives him the info to "talk" to Dodd to set him up to take the fall. He ends up beating his ass and letting him go, comes back with the photo and she says, "guess I don't have to worry about him anymore".

I think that explains #2 as well.

The third is questionable. He may have had the tats because remember when Teddy is telling him that his wife survived and that he had slready gotten the guys who did it? Well, he may have done all that to help himself, but his wife was still getting despondent over not having her Lenny (Sammy Jenkis), so she killed herself. But he couldn't remember that. But in the flashback, his wife is caressing a tatoo he doesn't have, so it may be proving his point that we can manufacture memories, like he had done with Sammy Jenkis and ultimately with Teddy.

Clear as mud, huh?

  

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jigga
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31583 posts
Tue Jun-05-01 08:54 AM

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136. "RE: Horror Flick?"
In response to Reply # 130


  

          

How did the ending make it seem like a horror flick 2 you?

Screw you guys...I'm goin home -Cartman

The mother of civilization, wants 2 know my occupation, home location and means of transportation. The correct combination unlocks her placenta. Ive got a cellular phone w/ a rubba antenna, own a 3 story house, drive a 4 door Ac, favorite song of all time, Mobb Deeps hit it from the back...then jet. -Ras Kass

...she said, "Do you have a car? Is your shit up 2 par?" Damn! a nigga need a resume just sittin at tha bar! -Ras Kass

Cuz bitches are like flies(why)they attract 2 the best shit. -Ras Kass

Cowards make a little cheese, then enlarge artificially, like Pamela Anderson Lee's double D's, please! I'm bangin from Belize 2 Tel Aviv in tha Red Sea racin Saddam Hussien on Kawasaki jet skies. -Ras Kass

18 willin rednecks, sendin me death threats, cuz their niece fantasize about wet sex, when I'm in her headsets. -Opio from Souls of Mischief

Tryin 2 do all I can do in this car...her mom's Jaguar -A-plus from Souls of Mischief

You think you're able 2 label the Hiero sound? You still havent found a comparable variable -Del

You live on the edge? I live on the San Andreas. -Evidence

I AINT GOT TIME 4 NO JIBBA JABBA!!!-Mr.T





  

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spirit
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21434 posts
Sun Jun-03-01 09:44 AM

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131. "Memento's director"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I peeped the first feature from the director of "memento" called "following". very ill. about a guy whose hobby is following strangers and the consequences thereof...mad dope and stylistically kind of a prequel to "memento" (strictly in a stylistic sense).

Thoughtfully yours,

Spirit Equality

The Rebels are coming...be aware...

http://www.mp3.com/miscellaneousflux - God is hiding between the notes

I make art as a humble attempt to communicate with God and make sense of the millions of random actions that form our universe.

Shockwave intro of the moment - http://www.onebadsista.com

Peace,

Spirit (Alan)
http://wutangbook.com

  

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misteranonymity
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1111 posts
Wed Jun-20-01 07:08 AM

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151. "RE: Memento's director"
In response to Reply # 131


  

          

I found a review of "Following" on the Boston Herald website. It's on a post about the film in the Reviews section.

ma
meudontno@hotmail.com

"Just because we're well-spoken and intelligent doesn't mean we're not human."
--?uestlove, justifying why the Roots have a stripper pole in their studio

  

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misteranonymity
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1111 posts
Wed Jun-20-01 07:10 AM

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152. "RE: Memento's director"
In response to Reply # 131


  

          

Here it is:

"_Following_(debut film from _Memento_director)"
I have to admit, at first this was slow to catch on to, but once I understood what was going on, I realized how genius of a film this was. Like his most recent film, _Memento_ (check out the new "Entertainment Weekly" to find out secrets regarding the film, don't check it out if you haven't seen it yet.), Christopher Nolan's _Following_ is also a film noir flick with a fractured narrative. This film is told in three different parts, the beginning, the middle, and the end. It is about a wannabe writer who follows people around London at random in order to gain some inspiration. The first part shows the writer (with a long hair and goatee) following around a clean-cut man who happens to be a burglar. The second part shows him following a woman around who he later becomes attracted to. The third part finds him clean-shaven, preparing to perform a burglary. As the film unfolds, the writer becomes the one being followed,leading to one of the best endings since _The Usual Suspects_ (in my opinion, this film's ending surpasses that flick easily...and that's saying a lot!).
It's been making its way through various art-house and classic film venues with exclusive one-week-only runs, so make sure you run and see this movie before it gets away!!! This flick and _Memento_ definitely solidifies Christopher Nolan as the Hitchcock of the new millennium (sure it sounds corny, but it's true!).

ma
meudontno@hotmail.com


"Just because we're well-spoken and intelligent doesn't mean we're not human."
--?uestlove, justifying why the Roots have a stripper pole in their studio

  

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misteranonymity
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1111 posts
Wed Jun-20-01 07:13 AM

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153. "RE: Memento's director"
In response to Reply # 152


  

          

Oops, that was my review. Here's the one from the Boston Herald!

"Review from The Boston Herald"

Film should gain a 'Following'
Movie Review/by James Verniere
Friday, February 11, 2000

``Following.'' Not rated. At the Brattle Theatre.


Christopher Nolan's ``Following'' at times seems like a sketch for a longer, more complex film. But what there is of this award-winning, black-and-white mini-noir is intriguing.

Bill (Jeremy Theobald), Nolan's marginalized Everyman protagonist, is a blocked London writer on the skids who takes to following strangers, in part because he's probably losing his mind, in part because he thinks he might find inspiration in the secret lives of others.

What he finds instead is the Mephistophelean Cobb (Alex Haw), a suavely dressed, well-mannered burglar who catches Bill in the act and offers him a chance to tag along.

Like Steven Soderbergh's ``The Limey,'' ``Following'' unfolds achronologically, shattering time into slivers. In some scenes

cw2

Bill sports a goatee and unkempt hair. In others, he's dressed and coiffed in emulation of his mentor and evil twin Cobb. He's obviously been beaten badly in yet others. The broken pieces of time eventually knit themselves together.

One of the pieces involves that staple of film noir, the mysterious blonde (Lucy Russell, who bears a film-noir-perfect resemblance to the young Shelly Winters). The blonde, whom Bill has followed before and with whom he is obsessed, is the girlfriend of a very bad man, a gangster who in one scene smashes someone's fingers and skull with a hammer.

Often shot with a handheld camera, ``Following'' is not quite the Dramamine nightmare of ``The Blair Witch Project.'' But the camerawork gives the film a floating quality that is slightly disorienting and helps us get caught up along with Bill in the thrill of breaking and entering and trespassing upon other people's secret lives. In one scene, Bill and Cobb are discovered inside a flat in the afternoon by a woman who lives there, but Cobb is confident she won't report it to the police because the man with her is not her live-in lover. ``Following'' has some of the same frissons as Hitchcock's ``Strangers on a Train,'' the same sense of unease at the idea of an innocent, weak-willed person lured into crime, the sense that everyone revels in some secret sin.

Newcomer Haw, who is about to pursue a master's degree in architecture at Princeton on a Fulbright scholarship, is surprisingly compelling as is this film's menacingly seductive cat burglar. If he decides to pursue his acting career in America, Haw might find himself competing for roles with countryman Jude Law (``The Talented Mr. Ripley'').

Theobald, who recently left a career in medical publishing to act full time, also is excellent as the innocent fool who doesn't feel the noose that is slowly tightening around his neck. (Theobald also co-produced the film.)

For writer-director Nolan, who studied English literature while making 16mm films for his college film club, this moody exercise in urban unease could mark the start of a brilliant career.

ma
meudontno@hotmail.com


"Just because we're well-spoken and intelligent doesn't mean we're not human."
--?uestlove, justifying why the Roots have a stripper pole in their studio

  

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WaxLablTabler
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16329 posts
Sun Jun-03-01 03:22 PM

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133. "RE: Memento"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

HEY GUYS! SEE IT TWICE B4 ASKING QUESTIONS THE 2ND TIME 'ROUND DIFFERENT THINGS WILL BECOME MORE APPARENT DEVELOP THEORIES THIS IS A TRUE CULT FLICK IF THE WRITER/DIRECTOR NEVER TELLS........ THE THEORIES CAN GO ON 4 EVER.

THE PART WHEN MELANIE MANIPS LENNY INTO THINKING DODD BEAT HER ASS WAS FUCKIN DISTURBING. IT SHOWS HOW MANIPULATIVE PEEPS ARE AND HOW MUCH THEY TAKE ADVANTAGE OF U IF THEY KNOW UR WEAKNESS. IT SHOWS HOW BARBARIC WE ARE NO MATTER HOW CIVILIZED WE SEEM BUT THATS A DIFFERENT COMBO.

I TYPED IN CAPS TO GET UR ATTN. IM NOT YELLING.

THE LABLR

____________________

be Good.

http://i45.tinypic.com/2n8vg29.png
(by a guy named Wes Whaley http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/culturepicturegalleries/8779317/Light-paintings-by-Wes-Whaley.html )

  

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DonKnutts
Charter member
27064 posts
Sat Jun-09-01 09:44 PM

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137. "a small goof"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

not dealing with the film's sequence/plot devices, but one of those directorial/editing goofs i noticed.

when lenny's putting ice to natalie's face, they're sitting on the couch, they cut to a tight shot of natalie's face and her lip and nose are bleeding. the camera moves to lenny. goes back to natalie, her face is clean (which makes sense, he was cleaning her up). he gets up to leave, camera back to natalie and -- mistake -- her face is all bloody again. these types of mistakes pop up in just about every movie ... in fact i think there's a web site dedicated to catching editing errors.

anyway, i purposely avoided this post before i got a chance to check out the flick, saw the movie earlier tonight, and after reading 100+ posts here at this late hour, i'm steadily getting the creeps... this movie is f'ckin creepy and eerie as hell!

also, some of the dialogue was definitely stilted, but i believe that is a film noir style.

re: the voiceovers, it reminded me of one of those role-playing computer games where you control a character and they're always voicing their thoughts out loud for you. "that's interesting." "i can't go here." "where did this come from?"

i also would like to see the movie again, but i can wait for the video release. as was said before in an earlier post, i think it will be valuable for me to see it with a fresh perspective.

  

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jigga
Charter member
31583 posts
Tue Jun-19-01 11:50 AM

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148. "RE: HERE IT IS FOLKS!!!"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

In this weeks issue of Entertainment Weekly director Chris Nolan actually gives some insight on the "burning ?'s" surrounding the film. Anyone interested should read the article. It gives insight but still doesnt really give away any defining answers. He does however clarify some of the ?'s about Lenny and Sammy, the actual condition, and whether or not the DVD will be in linear fashion.

Screw you guys...I'm goin home -Cartman

The mother of civilization, wants 2 know my occupation, home location and means of transportation. The correct combination unlocks her placenta. Ive got a cellular phone w/ a rubba antenna, own a 3 story house, drive a 4 door Ac, favorite song of all time, Mobb Deeps hit it from the back...then jet. -Ras Kass

...she said, "Do you have a car? Is your shit up 2 par?" Damn! a nigga need a resume just sittin at tha bar! -Ras Kass

Cuz bitches are like flies(why)they attract 2 the best shit. -Ras Kass

Cowards make a little cheese, then enlarge artificially, like Pamela Anderson Lee's double D's, please! I'm bangin from Belize 2 Tel Aviv in tha Red Sea racin Saddam Hussien on Kawasaki jet skies. -Ras Kass

18 willin rednecks, sendin me death threats, cuz their niece fantasize about wet sex, when I'm in her headsets. -Opio from Souls of Mischief

Tryin 2 do all I can do in this car...her mom's Jaguar -A-plus from Souls of Mischief

You think you're able 2 label the Hiero sound? You still havent found a comparable variable -Del

You live on the edge? I live on the San Andreas. -Evidence

I AINT GOT TIME 4 NO JIBBA JABBA!!!-Mr.T





  

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Wise_7

Mon Jun-25-01 08:54 AM

  
154. "I finally saw it!!!!!!!!"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Now, THAT is a phUCKIN MOVIE!!!!!!!!!!
That's exactly how a movie should be.
And if anybody says that there should be a sequel, I'll kill them.
This movie had me and my friend's mind all phucked up.
Every character manipulated Leonard, and the movie manipulated US.
That just goes to show you,... memory can be distorted, and YOUR own reality is only based on perception. Who do you think you ARE now? Not who you were.
I have one question, though..... did John G. (Teddy) kill Leonard's wife?
Was Teddy really the John G. Leonard was looking for?
ANd how the hell did he meet Natalie? What was his relationship with her?



"People think they make music, still/ when music is there without you or me, we just manipulate/ for better or worse, so let it situate"- Deltron

  

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jigga
Charter member
31583 posts
Mon Jun-25-01 10:14 AM

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155. "RE: Kill me phucko!"
In response to Reply # 154


  

          

Why shouldnt there be a sequel if they can figure out a clever way 2 flip it? I'd love 2 see this type of movie continued where maybe they show what led up 2 the attack on his wife, what then led 2 Leo's (possibly make up his) condition, and showing what actually occured in the past instead of just having 2 go on Teddy's words and what he tells him that happened @ the end of the movie. A clever sequel like that isnt a bad idea @ all. And I'm sure yall would rush 2 see it as well. Am I right or am I right?

Screw you guys...I'm goin home -Cartman

The mother of civilization, wants 2 know my occupation, home location and means of transportation. The correct combination unlocks her placenta. Ive got a cellular phone w/ a rubba antenna, own a 3 story house, drive a 4 door Ac, favorite song of all time, Mobb Deeps hit it from the back...then jet. -Ras Kass

...she said, "Do you have a car? Is your shit up 2 par?" Damn! a nigga need a resume just sittin at tha bar! -Ras Kass

Cuz bitches are like flies(why)they attract 2 the best shit. -Ras Kass

Cowards make a little cheese, then enlarge artificially, like Pamela Anderson Lee's double D's, please! I'm bangin from Belize 2 Tel Aviv in tha Red Sea racin Saddam Hussien on Kawasaki jet skies. -Ras Kass

18 willin rednecks, sendin me death threats, cuz their niece fantasize about wet sex, when I'm in her headsets. -Opio from Souls of Mischief

Tryin 2 do all I can do in this car...her mom's Jaguar -A-plus from Souls of Mischief

You think you're able 2 label the Hiero sound? You still havent found a comparable variable -Del

You live on the edge? I live on the San Andreas. -Evidence

I AINT GOT TIME 4 NO JIBBA JABBA!!!-Mr.T





  

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Wise_7

Wed Jun-27-01 10:55 AM

  
156. "See, that's what's wrong."
In response to Reply # 155


          

That's the problem with most people now-a-days.
YOU ALL want the answers spoon-fed to you.
Sure, why don't they pacify us and give us the anserws?
Instead of that, let's just be happy with this movie, MOVE ON, and make ANOTHER movie that might be better than this one.
That's the problem with Hollywood and the naive audience,... they think SEQUELS are the answer.
NOPE!
Making more good movies are the answer.
Besides,... people don't use their minds much.



"People think they make music, still/ when music is there without you or me, we just manipulate/ for better or worse, so let it situate"- Deltron

  

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jigga
Charter member
31583 posts
Thu Jun-28-01 05:52 AM

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157. "RE: See, that's what's wrong."
In response to Reply # 156


  

          

No thats not it at all. I like having 2 think thru a movie and figure shit out afterwards like in Fight Club. Upon multiple viewings of that movie (and directors commentary on DVD) the movie makes alot more sense than you could've gathered by watching it only once.

I dont want answers spoon-fed 2 me but I'm always interested in what the directors intent was 4 certain things that happened in the movie.

For example if you've seen Ronin, they constantly talk about some mysterious man in a wheelchair whose only mentioned but never seen in the movie. On the DVD the director explains that he just threw that in there 4 the hell of it. I was like cool, now I dont need 2 speculate anymore.

Now I'm only speculating here but I think you dont like many sequels cuz they're hardly ever as good as the original and maybe that somehow takes away from how the good the original movie was? Well I dont see it that way. If a sequel sucks then oh well it sucked but I can still enjoy the originality and brillance of the 1st movie (Memento). And if there is a sequel I know you'll be seeing it.

btw Have we topped the # of responses on the Magnolia post yet?

Screw you guys...I'm goin home -Cartman

The mother of civilization, wants 2 know my occupation, home location and means of transportation. The correct combination unlocks her placenta. Ive got a cellular phone w/ a rubba antenna, own a 3 story house, drive a 4 door Ac, favorite song of all time, Mobb Deeps hit it from the back...then jet. -Ras Kass

...she said, "Do you have a car? Is your shit up 2 par?" Damn! a nigga need a resume just sittin at tha bar! -Ras Kass

Cuz bitches are like flies(why)they attract 2 the best shit. -Ras Kass

Cowards make a little cheese, then enlarge artificially, like Pamela Anderson Lee's double D's, please! I'm bangin from Belize 2 Tel Aviv in tha Red Sea racin Saddam Hussien on Kawasaki jet skies. -Ras Kass

18 willin rednecks, sendin me death threats, cuz their niece fantasize about wet sex, when I'm in her headsets. -Opio from Souls of Mischief

Tryin 2 do all I can do in this car...her mom's Jaguar -A-plus from Souls of Mischief

You think you're able 2 label the Hiero sound? You still havent found a comparable variable -Del

You live on the edge? I live on the San Andreas. -Evidence

I AINT GOT TIME 4 NO JIBBA JABBA!!!-Mr.T





  

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