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Lobby Okay Activist Archives topic #21727

Subject: "RE: Great post!" This topic is locked.
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k_orr
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80197 posts
Fri Sep-01-00 06:26 AM

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97. "RE: Great post!"
In response to In response to 96


  

          


>My argument would be to
>a large extent, it's the
>record labels, radio, and MTV
>that define an audience's tastes
>strictly on racial boundaries.

I don't disagree with what you're saying. I'm just addressing the uncomfortable aspects of the hip hop nation.

>The problem
>is, a black group doing
>the same music would
>not be given the same
>platform from which to market
>their music.

I don't agree with that. Hootie and The Blowfish(well the vocalist is black), Macy Gray, and the Urge(the vocalist is also black) are just some of the african american artists that get love on stations with mostly white listenership. Black folks can still "crossover" to white audiences. On the indy scene, I think Local H gets some love, as does P.O.D. Both of whom have black members but play for a largely white fan base.

My concern is how come a black punk/rock/jazz/blues/experimental noise group can't get love in their own community.

>I would argue that if college
>DJ's are giving a platform
>to artists who cannot get
>played on mainstream radio,

As a former college radio DJ, I can tell you that the community of college radio dj's has the same type of control that the commercial dj's have. The college radio hip hop environment is just a farm team for major label hip hop. But outside of the "play for adds" scheme that goes on in college radio hip hop, college radio still thinks the same. At least in the South, college/community radio is where east coast heads went to when the West took over. So in many college radio stations all over, local heads who have a more southern/western style of hip hop do not get any airtime, especially when compared to their east coast brethren.

Yungstar, who was on last summers hit "Wanna be a Baller", is the kind of artist that most commercial radio stations wouldn't touch initially. But college radio wouldn't even think of playing anything "gangsta-ish", which is being more defined as not following the 4 elements and thinking that De La soul is the dopest hip hop group ever.

Every city west of the Hudson has 2 undergrounds. One, the "true" heads, the 4 element folks, and the second, the "real" heads, as in what the community really listens to. In Austin, the "arctechtonics" represent the true heads. They freestyle, they sample, they listen to east coast and fresh coast records (acey, hiero, lix). Then there is the the "flo mob", who also freestyle, sample and play their own instruments, and listen to DJ Screw, Cash Money and No Limit.

I think i'll leave it at that for now. But in essence, the "real" heads embody more of what hip hop has always been about, and the "true" heads represent a fantastic ideal about what hip hop is.

In most places around the country, the "true" heads and that sub-genre of hip hop is what college radio supports.

Personally the reason I think college radio supports the "true" hip hop, as opposed to the "real" hip hop stems from their race. Unfortunately, most white folks don't have the privilege of growing up in neighborhoods where the "real" mc's and music comes from. If they get that music, it's often been filtered via commercial radio and commercial video. As a result when you look at the trend of what gets reported to trade magazines from college radio, you see a huge devotion of love to "true" hip hop.

There are some other institutional things about college radio and djing in general that also push folks to "true" hip hop, but that's better discussed on the Lesson.

>they
>are performing a valuable service
>to hip hop regardless of
>their race.

I think because of their race hip hop becomes very limited.

And I
>see how their playlist may
>affect the course of the
>hip hop underground, but I
>am not convinced it is
>necessarily detrimental.

Since you buy records you have a different opinion of the underground. When you get free records you start to realize how hip hop underground hegemony controls what is being said on underground records. For every El-P or Mf Doom, there are hundreds of Mike Zoot's and other second and third string mc's. It is just like the majors.

I mean,
>for every El-P record they
>play, they are playing multiple
>Aceyalone or Blackalicious tracks too.

But what I'm getting at is that the aceyalone and el-p styles of hip hop do not necessarily appeal to a large segment of black folks. Often most of the underground mc's in hip hop were outsiders to the core of black folks to begin with. (I think the same thing applies to underground heads in general, but we won't go into that).

> And, if the college
>DJ knows anything about the
>history of hip hop, they
>CAN have a positive impact
>by playing music that audiences
>wouldn't hear otherwise.

Like old records, no doubt.

>I absolutely agree. The proliferation
>of white MCs could be
>problematic for hip hop's future.
> But I also don't
>particularly like the redefinition of
>"hip hop" along color lines
>which the media has begun
>doing.

I honestly think that Kid Rock is doing something different than Run DMC did. I don't think that is the media, but a different perspective on the music. M&M is a different case. He's Chino Xl + the gravediggaz(or Esham or Bushwick bill) with better marketing. I think Em is still appealing to a more Afrikan idea of what hip hop is than Kid Rock/POD/Rage/Stereo Mc's.


>Interesting perspective you give here.
>I can see how an
>audience that places more emphasis
>on beats than rhymes might
>tend to overlook the underground
>cats.

I think that extends to both the over and underground audience. Gangstarr would be nowhere without Primo.

Incidentally, I heard
>Aceyalone's solo material for the
>first time on a college
>radio station in Austin (I
>was visiting a friend).
>They played "Headaches and Woes"
>well before his album dropped,
>and it had me open.

You were probably listening to my show. If this was between 1993-1999 you were probably listening to my radio show.

> Austin's a cool town,
>and it's probably more
>receptive to the underground than
>your average city.

It's the skaters. Despite only having one shop, the skate influence is huge.

>
>This is a good point.
>People are afraid to go
>outside their own neighborhoods for
>all kinds of reasons.
>But, the deeper problem is
>"why do white and black
>people live on opposite sides
>of town".

actually that is the real issue in and of itself.

>
>Well, I can see the value
>of addressing these stereotypes, but
>I would suggest that when
>music glorifies only certain images,

I don't think it ever does. I hear a lot more in Bling Bling than just a transcription of the Robb Report. But I've also been listening to Southern hip hop for most of my life. To those unfamiliar with the nuances coming from a Rawkus/Native Tongues/Okay player background, that is all they hear.

>But
>I think that conscious MC's
>do address the very issues
>brought up by the images
>in mainstream music, and usually
>more effectively.

I think most conscious mc's are preaching to the choir. The difference btw a blackstar of 2K and a brand nubian of 91 is that all of black america heard "Slow Down", whereas only black folks who watch Rap City heard mos and kweli.

> I don't think gangstas
>are corrupting hip hop per
>se, but I think as
>long as white corporate control
>of hip hop persists, their
>message is going to dominate
>the public debate.

White corporate control will push whatever sells. Remember all the popular conscious music from back in the day was on white record labels.

And
>who would you rather have
>articulating the concerns of the
>black community on a
>national level: Cash Money or
>Dead Prez?

Cash Money. They have people's ears. They aren't judgemental.

Would you rather
>have artists who represent a
>social problem,

Cash money represents a solution. black businessmen.

>True. But my point was
>this: white fans of rap
>who have a hard time
>accepting complex, intellectual black artists
>like Com are a bigger
>problem than those few who
>DO listen to him.

no doubt.

>I understand how
>his lack of acceptance among
> black folks could be
>troubling.

It doesn't seem to trouble him or anyone else in the conscious set.

I'm not black,
>so I have a hard
>time understanding the various motivations
>for why they might not
>be supporting him in his
>neighborhood.

It's not that conscious doesn't appeal to black folks, it's just that most of the conscious artists do not make music that the majority of black folks enjoy. If com, or mos, or any of those other cats were real about spreading a message, they would hook up with Swizz beats or Mani Fresh or Timbaland. but they aren't that interested.

Even
>if their self-reliance comes more
>from necessity than some desire
>for control, the result still
>seems like a positive one.

true dat.

> And perhaps it could
>serve as a viable model
>for hip hop artists who
>want to take some control
>of their music away from
>white-owned labels. Certainly it
>isn't far from some of
>the ideals I hear Black
>Star or Dead Prez talking
>about in their music...

But black star and Dp's could easily be on their own labels. They are in that hard place. They don't have the machinery to promote them like a Will Smith, but they would be just as popular as Mf Doom if they want independent.

>Anyway thanks for sharing your thoughts.
> Sorry if I went
>on too long, but I
>wanted to do justice to
>the complexity of the issues.

don't sweat it. The folks who punch out a 1 or 2 sentence reply often don't add to the conversation.



peace
k. orr

http://breddanansi.tumblr.com/

  

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White people place in Hip-Hop Culture!! [View all] , jbortolotti, Wed Aug-23-00 04:43 AM
 
Subject Author Message Date ID
RE: White people place in Hip-Hop Culture!!
Aug 23rd 2000
1
RE: White people place in Hip-Hop Culture!!
jbortolotti
Aug 23rd 2000
2
Racism is believing hip hop needs white people
Aug 23rd 2000
4
RE: It's called Blaxploitation!!!!!
Sep 01st 2000
99
is this in the right place?
Aug 23rd 2000
3
OKPlayer is hip-hop culture,
Aug 24th 2000
5
Okayplayer is probably 75% white
Aug 24th 2000
6
      RE: Okayplayer is probably 75% white
Aug 24th 2000
7
           Aren't you
Aug 24th 2000
9
           RE: Aren't you
Aug 24th 2000
12
                now now
Aug 24th 2000
14
                RE: now now
Aug 24th 2000
15
                     Yes
Aug 24th 2000
16
                          why am I only now beginning to see how smart you are...
black_engineer
Aug 29th 2000
51
                               how smart you are.
black_engineer
Aug 29th 2000
52
                I'm far
Aug 24th 2000
17
                RE: I'm far
Aug 24th 2000
18
                     Seriously
Aug 24th 2000
19
                     I don't think
Aug 24th 2000
22
                     RE: Seriously
Aug 24th 2000
24
                          Seriously?
velodragon
Aug 30th 2000
84
                               Chill
Aug 30th 2000
85
                                    oh
velodragon
Aug 30th 2000
91
                     RE: I'm far
Aug 24th 2000
21
                          Blowin hot air
Aug 24th 2000
23
                               That's the spirit!
Aug 24th 2000
25
                               RE: That's the spirit!
Aug 24th 2000
26
                               Damn enter key!
Aug 24th 2000
29
                                    Glad you enjoyed yourself
Aug 24th 2000
30
                                         It's better
Aug 24th 2000
32
                               RE: does saying 'ish' and 'jawn' make folks 'urban'?
Sep 01st 2000
100
                RE: Aren't you
NINJAETTE
Aug 29th 2000
49
                     Ninjaette
Aug 29th 2000
50
           Fear?
Aug 24th 2000
20
                RE: Fear?
iluvmaxy
Aug 24th 2000
33
                an interesting idea....
Aug 24th 2000
34
                RE: an interesting idea....
Aug 25th 2000
37
                RE: an interesting idea....
Aug 25th 2000
39
                     definetly agree...
Aug 25th 2000
42
                RE: an interesting idea....
Sep 01st 2000
101
                Speaking of which
OneThousand
Aug 25th 2000
38
                     Modern day country
Aug 25th 2000
43
                     I know the banjo is an african instrument
Aug 28th 2000
48
                     RE: Speaking of which
Sep 01st 2000
102
Come one come all
KoalaLove
Aug 24th 2000
8
Men?
Aug 24th 2000
10
      arrrrgh
KoalaLove
Aug 24th 2000
11
           I know
Aug 24th 2000
13
                I Started this post to...
jbortolotti
Aug 24th 2000
27
                     RE: I Started this post to...
Aug 24th 2000
28
                     That European model
Aug 24th 2000
31
Upski
Aug 24th 2000
35
RE: Bomb the Suburbs
sponge
Aug 25th 2000
36
      Get it online...
Aug 25th 2000
40
           I find it funny how........
kamikazee
Aug 25th 2000
41
                Is this post responding to mine?
Aug 25th 2000
44
                RE: Is this post responding to mine?
kamikazee
Aug 25th 2000
45
                     again...
Aug 27th 2000
46
                this is pure ignorance...
Aug 28th 2000
47
                     RE: this is pure ignorance...
kamikazee
Aug 30th 2000
76
                          RE: this is pure ignorance...
Sep 01st 2000
103
RE: White people place in Hip-Hop Culture!!
starberry
Aug 29th 2000
53
RE: White people place in Hip-Hop Culture!!
Aug 29th 2000
54
      RE: White people place in Hip-Hop Culture!!
starberry
Aug 29th 2000
55
      Why not?
Aug 29th 2000
56
           RE: Why not?
starberry
Aug 29th 2000
57
           You have some issues
Aug 30th 2000
59
           Sorry one more thing
Aug 30th 2000
60
           No!!!!!!
Aug 30th 2000
61
                What do you mean?
Aug 30th 2000
62
           RE: You have some issues
starberry
Aug 30th 2000
63
           What?
Aug 30th 2000
65
                RE: What?
starberry
Aug 30th 2000
66
                     Both of you
Aug 30th 2000
67
                     Another intelligent comment
Aug 30th 2000
68
                     BOTH OF YOU
Aug 30th 2000
69
                     RE: Another intelligent comment
starberry
Aug 30th 2000
70
                          Ok
Aug 30th 2000
71
                               Stop it now, both of you
Aug 30th 2000
73
                     RE: What?
Aug 30th 2000
81
                          Chill darlin'
Aug 30th 2000
82
                               RE: Chill darlin'
Aug 30th 2000
83
           Deconstruction
Aug 30th 2000
64
                AMEN
Aug 30th 2000
72
                damn, janey..
AfricanHerbsman
Aug 30th 2000
74
                exactly...
blue
Aug 30th 2000
75
                Good Point
Aug 30th 2000
86
                     Everyone here is my teacher
Aug 30th 2000
87
                     RE: Good Point
starberry
Aug 30th 2000
89
                          Hey Star, here's the flipside
Aug 30th 2000
90
                          here's my take on it
Aug 30th 2000
92
                               sorry.
Aug 30th 2000
93
                               RE: here's my take on it
Aug 31st 2000
94
           They buy both
Aug 30th 2000
80
           RE: Why not?
Aug 30th 2000
79
                RE: Why not?
Aug 30th 2000
88
                     RE: Why not?
Aug 31st 2000
95
                          Great post!
Aug 31st 2000
96
                              
                                    Just a few more thoughts
Sep 01st 2000
106
                                         RE: Just a few more thoughts
Sep 02nd 2000
107
      Gospel, Cash Money, No Limit
Aug 30th 2000
78
Opinions, assholes, and... everybody just chill, please.
Aug 29th 2000
58
Lemme say somethin........
kamikazee
Aug 30th 2000
77
      RE: Lemme say somethin........
Sep 01st 2000
105
B/c they buy the music it don't mean it's theirs.....
Sep 01st 2000
98
RE: B/c they buy the music it don't mean it's theirs.....
Sep 01st 2000
104

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