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Subject: "Just a few more thoughts" This topic is locked.
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murph25
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733 posts
Fri Sep-01-00 11:06 PM

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106. "Just a few more thoughts"
In response to In response to 97


  

          

>I don't agree with that...
>Black folks can still "crossover"
>to white audiences. On
>the indy scene, I think
>Local H gets some love,
>as does P.O.D. Both
>of whom have black members
>but play for a largely
>white fan base.

But seeing how "crossing over" is often a necessity to survival in the white-corporate-controlled music world, it does deserve some attention. I'd say those you list are exceptions to the rule (there are others - Lenny Kravitz comes to mind). My biggest problem is with the concept of "alternative rock" radio. Seems like at its core the term really means "music for whites" - it's a genre without any clear musical definition. And these white bands often use hip hop to get over. This is really what I'm refering to, and I think it does hurt black hip hop artists who CANNOT get played on the same station that plays Eminem, Everlast, the Beasties, etc. all the time. I'll leave it at that.

>My concern is how come a
>black punk/rock/jazz/blues/experimental noise group can't
>get love in their own
>community.

I can see how this is a bigger issue to you. Ultimately, the walls that divide these genres, whether they are created by the listeners (as you have argued) or the "system" (as I put forth), are causing harm to the artistry and integrity of modern music. That won't be an easy problem to tackle as we look to the future.

>Every city west of the Hudson
>has 2 undergrounds. One,
>the "true" heads, the 4
>element folks, and the second,
>the "real" heads, as in
>what the community really listens to.

This is a good point. I've never thought of it in these terms. It makes me question some of the underlying reasons behind why I listen to the music I do. I tend to support "true" hip hop, though I would never put that label on it myself. This is actually a good way of understanding the racial divisions that exist within "underground" hip hop. Kind of hard to swallow on a personal level, but ultimately, I think you're right. Helps me understand a little better what you were saying over on the lesson about your disappointment with "underground" heads.

>White corporate control will push whatever
>sells. Remember all the
>popular conscious music from back
>in the day was on
>white record labels.

Popular in a relative sense. Those guys were lucky to go gold. When gangsta rap took over the sales figures tripled, didn't they? The big labels didn't keep the conscious artists around too long once G-funk hit. I think the labels seemed more interested in taking chances in the late 80's - early 90s. There was a lot more diversity in what they were promoting.

But I think their business practices were shady to say the least. A lot of times, they didn't give these artists time or space to grow, and this helped killed that era of hip hop just as much as the changing tastes of the audiences. Show me a conscious rapper from that era, and I'll show you someone who's bitter towards a record label. Maybe that's all sour grapes, but I suspect there's something to it.

>Cash money represents a solution.
>black businessmen.

Granted, that's true. And, I think with my background I tend to take for granted the importance of business in this context. I tend to have an immediate negative reaction to materialism, largely because it was so rampant in MY community growing up. I can actually see how valuable their example would be to black folks who are used to seeing whites in a position of financial power.

But, are Cash Money laying out a GOOD framework for other black businessmen to follow? For instance, what does buying platinum jewelry and having diamonds set in your teeth tell young people about money management? What does buying (ok, renting) expensive European sports cars say to their audience about putting money back into their own community? I can see that they have a value, but it seems like a limited one (no offense to master p).

I appreciate being able to have an open discussion about race here on okayplayer with people who know more than I do about these issues. I freely admit my limitations and my ignorance on some of these matters. I want to learn. That's pretty much the point of being here (not just on okayactivist, but on planet earth). Thanks again for the conversation

Oh, and that's funny that I heard your show in Austin. You know what they say, six degrees or whatever.

peace,
murph


peace,
murph

  

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White people place in Hip-Hop Culture!! [View all] , jbortolotti, Wed Aug-23-00 04:43 AM
 
Subject Author Message Date ID
RE: White people place in Hip-Hop Culture!!
Aug 23rd 2000
1
RE: White people place in Hip-Hop Culture!!
jbortolotti
Aug 23rd 2000
2
Racism is believing hip hop needs white people
Aug 23rd 2000
4
RE: It's called Blaxploitation!!!!!
Sep 01st 2000
99
is this in the right place?
Aug 23rd 2000
3
OKPlayer is hip-hop culture,
Aug 24th 2000
5
Okayplayer is probably 75% white
Aug 24th 2000
6
      RE: Okayplayer is probably 75% white
Aug 24th 2000
7
           Aren't you
Aug 24th 2000
9
           RE: Aren't you
Aug 24th 2000
12
                now now
Aug 24th 2000
14
                RE: now now
Aug 24th 2000
15
                     Yes
Aug 24th 2000
16
                          why am I only now beginning to see how smart you are...
black_engineer
Aug 29th 2000
51
                               how smart you are.
black_engineer
Aug 29th 2000
52
                I'm far
Aug 24th 2000
17
                RE: I'm far
Aug 24th 2000
18
                     Seriously
Aug 24th 2000
19
                     I don't think
Aug 24th 2000
22
                     RE: Seriously
Aug 24th 2000
24
                          Seriously?
velodragon
Aug 30th 2000
84
                               Chill
Aug 30th 2000
85
                                    oh
velodragon
Aug 30th 2000
91
                     RE: I'm far
Aug 24th 2000
21
                          Blowin hot air
Aug 24th 2000
23
                               That's the spirit!
Aug 24th 2000
25
                               RE: That's the spirit!
Aug 24th 2000
26
                               Damn enter key!
Aug 24th 2000
29
                                    Glad you enjoyed yourself
Aug 24th 2000
30
                                         It's better
Aug 24th 2000
32
                               RE: does saying 'ish' and 'jawn' make folks 'urban'?
Sep 01st 2000
100
                RE: Aren't you
NINJAETTE
Aug 29th 2000
49
                     Ninjaette
Aug 29th 2000
50
           Fear?
Aug 24th 2000
20
                RE: Fear?
iluvmaxy
Aug 24th 2000
33
                an interesting idea....
Aug 24th 2000
34
                RE: an interesting idea....
Aug 25th 2000
37
                RE: an interesting idea....
Aug 25th 2000
39
                     definetly agree...
Aug 25th 2000
42
                RE: an interesting idea....
Sep 01st 2000
101
                Speaking of which
OneThousand
Aug 25th 2000
38
                     Modern day country
Aug 25th 2000
43
                     I know the banjo is an african instrument
Aug 28th 2000
48
                     RE: Speaking of which
Sep 01st 2000
102
Come one come all
KoalaLove
Aug 24th 2000
8
Men?
Aug 24th 2000
10
      arrrrgh
KoalaLove
Aug 24th 2000
11
           I know
Aug 24th 2000
13
                I Started this post to...
jbortolotti
Aug 24th 2000
27
                     RE: I Started this post to...
Aug 24th 2000
28
                     That European model
Aug 24th 2000
31
Upski
Aug 24th 2000
35
RE: Bomb the Suburbs
sponge
Aug 25th 2000
36
      Get it online...
Aug 25th 2000
40
           I find it funny how........
kamikazee
Aug 25th 2000
41
                Is this post responding to mine?
Aug 25th 2000
44
                RE: Is this post responding to mine?
kamikazee
Aug 25th 2000
45
                     again...
Aug 27th 2000
46
                this is pure ignorance...
Aug 28th 2000
47
                     RE: this is pure ignorance...
kamikazee
Aug 30th 2000
76
                          RE: this is pure ignorance...
Sep 01st 2000
103
RE: White people place in Hip-Hop Culture!!
starberry
Aug 29th 2000
53
RE: White people place in Hip-Hop Culture!!
Aug 29th 2000
54
      RE: White people place in Hip-Hop Culture!!
starberry
Aug 29th 2000
55
      Why not?
Aug 29th 2000
56
           RE: Why not?
starberry
Aug 29th 2000
57
           You have some issues
Aug 30th 2000
59
           Sorry one more thing
Aug 30th 2000
60
           No!!!!!!
Aug 30th 2000
61
                What do you mean?
Aug 30th 2000
62
           RE: You have some issues
starberry
Aug 30th 2000
63
           What?
Aug 30th 2000
65
                RE: What?
starberry
Aug 30th 2000
66
                     Both of you
Aug 30th 2000
67
                     Another intelligent comment
Aug 30th 2000
68
                     BOTH OF YOU
Aug 30th 2000
69
                     RE: Another intelligent comment
starberry
Aug 30th 2000
70
                          Ok
Aug 30th 2000
71
                               Stop it now, both of you
Aug 30th 2000
73
                     RE: What?
Aug 30th 2000
81
                          Chill darlin'
Aug 30th 2000
82
                               RE: Chill darlin'
Aug 30th 2000
83
           Deconstruction
Aug 30th 2000
64
                AMEN
Aug 30th 2000
72
                damn, janey..
AfricanHerbsman
Aug 30th 2000
74
                exactly...
blue
Aug 30th 2000
75
                Good Point
Aug 30th 2000
86
                     Everyone here is my teacher
Aug 30th 2000
87
                     RE: Good Point
starberry
Aug 30th 2000
89
                          Hey Star, here's the flipside
Aug 30th 2000
90
                          here's my take on it
Aug 30th 2000
92
                               sorry.
Aug 30th 2000
93
                               RE: here's my take on it
Aug 31st 2000
94
           They buy both
Aug 30th 2000
80
           RE: Why not?
Aug 30th 2000
79
                RE: Why not?
Aug 30th 2000
88
                     RE: Why not?
Aug 31st 2000
95
                          Great post!
Aug 31st 2000
96
                               RE: Great post!
Sep 01st 2000
97
                                   
                                         RE: Just a few more thoughts
Sep 02nd 2000
107
      Gospel, Cash Money, No Limit
Aug 30th 2000
78
Opinions, assholes, and... everybody just chill, please.
Aug 29th 2000
58
Lemme say somethin........
kamikazee
Aug 30th 2000
77
      RE: Lemme say somethin........
Sep 01st 2000
105
B/c they buy the music it don't mean it's theirs.....
Sep 01st 2000
98
RE: B/c they buy the music it don't mean it's theirs.....
Sep 01st 2000
104

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