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Subject: "I know I'll get hate, but Dreamgirls was painful." This topic is locked.
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biscuit
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Sun Jun-03-07 12:38 AM

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"I know I'll get hate, but Dreamgirls was painful."


  

          

Best Actor/Actress Nominations? For what? Melodramatic oversinging? The halfway decent plot was buried so deep below the never-ending sappiness and routines that it was almost completely lost. It felt more like a bloated music video than a movie.

The music sounded like Disney on Ice. There were no peaks and valleys in the singing. It was all peaks. No room for air or subtlety, which is so often and sadly the case in today's popular music. Who wrote it, anyway? Andrew Lloyd Weber? It was so very, very wrong. Give me Holland-Dozier-Holland any day over that rubbish. it's just a direct slap in the face to Motown and it's incredible legacy.

The one notable is that the cast was loaded with talent and what a waste of perfectly good talent it was. Jennifer Hudson is extraordinary and it's a shame her golden pipes were used for such thin, corny compositions. It was fun, however, to see Beyonce take the Kelly Rowlands role for a spell.

Ah well, maybe I'm not being entirely fair because I basically hate musicals anyway.

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*Effasig*

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
Now go away.
Jun 03rd 2007
1
DTS
Jun 03rd 2007
2
THX
Jun 03rd 2007
5
      *thumbs up*
Jun 03rd 2007
6
it wasn't a good movie
Jun 03rd 2007
3
cosign
Jun 03rd 2007
4
And here's why you thought these things:
Jun 03rd 2007
7
And you liked it because?
Jun 03rd 2007
8
      Like any good musical, it sweeps you up into its world.
Jun 04th 2007
19
           I respect your opinion, Frank, but let's agree to disagree...
Jun 04th 2007
22
                "Chicago" had a complicated plot?
Jun 04th 2007
31
Beyonce in 60's era get-ups = Money well spent.
Jun 03rd 2007
9
It wasn't painful..
Jun 03rd 2007
10
yeah, shit was wack
Jun 03rd 2007
11
this negated your entire post:
Jun 03rd 2007
12
I loved "The Sound of Music"
Jun 03rd 2007
13
      I've only seen part of "The Sound of Music"
Jun 03rd 2007
14
           RE: I've only seen part of "The Sound of Music"
Jun 04th 2007
16
           First: _what_ Smokey Robinson songs?
Jun 04th 2007
18
           RE: First: _what_ Smokey Robinson songs?
Jun 04th 2007
37
                "A Breathtaking Guy" wasn't a hit.
Jun 05th 2007
40
           what he said ^
Jun 04th 2007
23
           Well then you need to UP your "musicals" watching....
Jun 04th 2007
24
                I tend towards musicals...how can I say this politely...
Jun 04th 2007
28
                     that's pretty limiting...
Jun 04th 2007
30
                          I said "tend towards", not "I only watch."
Jun 04th 2007
33
This isn't GD; you're safe, brother.
Jun 03rd 2007
15
ITA
Jun 04th 2007
17
You know?
Jun 04th 2007
25
I agree. Worst movie I've seen in years.
Jun 04th 2007
20
You haven't seen many movies.
Jun 04th 2007
21
      I have.
Jun 04th 2007
26
      But did you really think it was the WORST movie in years?
Jun 04th 2007
27
           Not the worst, but definitely not deserving of the Oscar nods
Jun 04th 2007
29
                not even the technical awards?
Jun 04th 2007
32
      lol...how do you know how many movies I've seen?
Jun 04th 2007
34
           Because Dreamgirls is not THAT bad, even if you hate it.
Jun 04th 2007
38
                it wasn't that bad to *YOU*, Frank
Jun 05th 2007
39
(checks watch) The official Dreamgirls backlash is only 4 months behind
Jun 04th 2007
35
some of these folks are just late. And mean.
Jun 04th 2007
36

bignick
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Sun Jun-03-07 01:18 AM

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1. "Now go away."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


>Ah well, maybe I'm not being entirely fair because I basically
>hate musicals anyway.

  

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The_Orange_Ninja_Turtle
Member since Jan 14th 2005
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Sun Jun-03-07 03:09 AM

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2. "DTS"
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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biscuit
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Sun Jun-03-07 11:06 AM

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5. "THX"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

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*Effasig*

  

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The_Orange_Ninja_Turtle
Member since Jan 14th 2005
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Sun Jun-03-07 11:42 AM

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6. "*thumbs up*"
In response to Reply # 5


          

  

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theprofessional
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Sun Jun-03-07 03:10 AM

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3. "it wasn't a good movie"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

"i smack clowns with nouns, punch herbs with verbs..."

  

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temps2020
Member since Oct 21st 2003
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Sun Jun-03-07 09:27 AM

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4. "cosign"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
84817 posts
Sun Jun-03-07 12:41 PM

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7. "And here's why you thought these things:"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


>Ah well, maybe I'm not being entirely fair because I basically
>hate musicals anyway.

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

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biscuit
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Sun Jun-03-07 12:44 PM

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8. "And you liked it because?"
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

*Effasig*

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Mon Jun-04-07 08:24 AM

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19. "Like any good musical, it sweeps you up into its world."
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

I do think the songs build, even if they start very emotional and go to an even higher plane.

Yes, musicals are melodramatic-- almost all of them, by nature. It's funny you mentioned Chicago below, one of the dryest least-emotional musicals of all-time (but therein lies its appeal, in its sexy cool detachment).

But it's really a pretty good show. By no means is it one of my favorite "shows", but it was done surprisingly well as a film. It's not a show I imagine lends itself to conversion to film easily, as you can tell by a few clunky transitions in the movie (there's so much "performance" of songs within the show that when they sing away from performance, it's awkward at first). But I thought it was filmed beautifully, Condon really created a nice world for those characters, and the performances were all pretty damn good. It's hard to sing those melodramatic songs with an earnestness that sucks you in the way that Hudson and Murphy and the others do.

There are parts I don't dig, sure. But overall I really enjoyed it-- one of the better movie musicals I've seen since Chicago, probably the best since Chicago. And the nature of the beast is its melodramatic delivery... but that's what most musicals are.

After all, these characters have to feel SO emotional that words no longer cut it, they need to SING. There's something intrisically corny about that, but if you give yourself over to it, it can make for a pretty terrific experience.

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

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biscuit
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Mon Jun-04-07 10:42 AM

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22. "I respect your opinion, Frank, but let's agree to disagree..."
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

>I do think the songs build, even if they start very emotional
>and go to an even higher plane.

Which ones? I didn't catch it.

>Yes, musicals are melodramatic-- almost all of them, by
>nature. It's funny you mentioned Chicago below, one of the
>dryest least-emotional musicals of all-time (but therein lies
>its appeal, in its sexy cool detachment).

Chicago was stunning visually, but gave me a headache. The plot was so convoluated and ridiculous, it was impossible to follow. And no, Richard Gere CAN"T act OR sing. But damn if Latifa was the shizzle! She MADE that movie, what there was to be made.

>But it's really a pretty good show. By no means is it one of
>my favorite "shows", but it was done surprisingly well as a
>film. It's not a show I imagine lends itself to conversion to
>film easily, as you can tell by a few clunky transitions in
>the movie (there's so much "performance" of songs within the
>show that when they sing away from performance, it's awkward
>at first). But I thought it was filmed beautifully, Condon
>really created a nice world for those characters, and the
>performances were all pretty damn good. It's hard to sing
>those melodramatic songs with an earnestness that sucks you in
>the way that Hudson and Murphy and the others do.

No. I've seen more moving performances on Knight Rider.

>There are parts I don't dig, sure. But overall I really
>enjoyed it-- one of the better movie musicals I've seen since
>Chicago, probably the best since Chicago. And the nature of
>the beast is its melodramatic delivery... but that's what most
>musicals are.

Well, I did dig my own hole by saying I hate musicals, but is it a lesser evil? Stacked up against classic musicals? No. I'll take Busby Berkeley any day over this.

>After all, these characters have to feel SO emotional that
>words no longer cut it, they need to SING. There's something
>intrisically corny about that, but if you give yourself over
>to it, it can make for a pretty terrific experience.

Sort of like "Trapped in the Closet"? That's not entirely fair though. It was better than that.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

*Effasig*

  

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Nukkapedia
Member since Apr 16th 2006
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Mon Jun-04-07 12:36 PM

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31. ""Chicago" had a complicated plot?"
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

What was so complicated about it that made it difficult to follow?

  

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JRennolds
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Sun Jun-03-07 02:00 PM

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9. "Beyonce in 60's era get-ups = Money well spent."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

It doesn't take much. I could've done without the singing arguments though...

GOMD

  

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Coatesvillain
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10. "It wasn't painful.."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

And while I did enjoy the music, I didn't feel the movie was that good. I mean, it's okay.. but I was really let down by it.

-------
"Andy justifies my hate."
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http://coates.tumblr.com

  

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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
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Sun Jun-03-07 07:34 PM

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11. "yeah, shit was wack"
In response to Reply # 0


          

it was bland as hell, imo

  

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Nukkapedia
Member since Apr 16th 2006
35461 posts
Sun Jun-03-07 07:57 PM

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12. "this negated your entire post:"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

>Ah well, maybe I'm not being entirely fair because I basically
>hate musicals anyway.

  

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biscuit
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Sun Jun-03-07 09:31 PM

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13. "I loved "The Sound of Music""
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

How's that?

All That Jazz was interesting.

Chicago was well-done, but not my speed.

Negate this!

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*Effasig*

  

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Nukkapedia
Member since Apr 16th 2006
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Sun Jun-03-07 10:18 PM

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14. "I've only seen part of "The Sound of Music""
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

I've never seen "All That Jazz".

I love "Chicago".

I also loved "Dreamgirls", "Disney on Ice" music and all. It's a Broadway musical. What did you expect it to sound like, real Supremes songs? "Chicago" sounds next-to-nothing like authentic 1928 jazz music. At least "Dreamgirls" makes a halfway decent attempt at charting R&B music from doo-wop to disco (I don't think I'll ever again see a film with a song done in the style of Motown producer Jeffery Bowen ever again)

Incidentally, real Supremes songs had a tendency to sound even more like "Disney on Ice" than anything in "Dreamgirls". Anyone who is actually familiar with the Supremes' catalog outside of what gets played over the Muzak speakers in Red Lobster can tell you that.

  

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Andre Leon
Member since May 05th 2007
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Mon Jun-04-07 12:38 AM

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16. "RE: I've only seen part of "The Sound of Music""
In response to Reply # 14


          

Holland-Dozier-Holland = Disney On Ice? Those Smokey Robinson tunes = Disney On Ice? Don't go too far in defending that shitty movie. Even when the Supremes sang Rodgers & Hart, country & western or other standards, they didn't sound Disney on Ice. The original music from the stage version of Dreamgirls was fine when transferred to the big-screen. That new shit for the movie? Wackness. Especially that god-awful "Listen" crap.

  

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Nukkapedia
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Mon Jun-04-07 08:02 AM

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18. "First: _what_ Smokey Robinson songs?"
In response to Reply # 16
Mon Jun-04-07 08:09 AM by Nukkapedia

  

          

Smokey only wrote and produced one (1) top 40 single for the Diana Ross-led Supremes: "The Composer", which is not considered among the Supremes' (or Smokey's) best works.

Second, yes, I'm specifically talking about the Supremes' (numerous) Broadway recordings, namely "Diana Ross & the Supremes Sing and Perform 'Funny Girl'", their Copacabana live recordings, and most of the showtunes they sung on network television in addition to their hits. Some of those are pretty out there as far as a Broadway sound goes (I don't mean that in a bad way at all; they're all actually very good recordings). And I never said the recordings _equaled_ "Disney on Ice". I said "sounds more like". Don't put words in my mouth.

And as far as the new songs, I understand your point with two of the four. "Listen" was...well, "Listen". "Patience" only works within the context of the film; I'm prone to skip it when listening to the soundtrack. And "Perfect World" is too inconsequential to critique.

On the other hand, "Love You I Do" is one my favorite songs in the "Dreamgirls" canon. You can't front on Siedah Garrett.

  

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Andre Leon
Member since May 05th 2007
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Mon Jun-04-07 06:30 PM

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37. "RE: First: _what_ Smokey Robinson songs?"
In response to Reply # 18


          

hey...

first, i wanna say it was never my intention to put words in your mouth, so if that's what came across then i apologize. i also think that sometimes we type things with a certain tenor in our heads but shit comes off more biting than intended when read...

but a correction i would make in your info is that smokey wrote one of my favorite early supremes songs "breathtaking guy" and produced one of my supremes guilty pleasures, "long gone lover," so his input on the trio goes beyond "the composer," which i loathe.

also, my big problem with just the music of "dreamgirls" ('cause i got lots beyond that) is that if they were gonna broaden the musical palette and go beyond the more traditional b'way feel of the original show tunes (which i'm actually a big fan of), then they could have at least tried to be more era-accurate with what they came up with. "listen" is just contemporary dreck, a horrible fit for the movie's time-frame, while "love you i do" is -- to me -- a weak approximation of the era they were going for. but then, i ain't a big fan of the cockroach of the music industry, siedah garrett. respect her hustle and homegirl is always on the grind, going on 40 or 50 years now. but i mean, drag nick ashford's ass from the chair of his weaveologist and have him and val write some shit. ain't at least 2/3 of holland-dozier-holland still alive? they ain't doing shit... hell, if amy winehouse can do it, i know those old pros still got it in them.

and beyonce cannot act. end of story. gorgeous and insanely fuckable, but otherwise useless.



  

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Nukkapedia
Member since Apr 16th 2006
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Tue Jun-05-07 06:41 AM

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40. ""A Breathtaking Guy" wasn't a hit."
In response to Reply # 37


  

          

What I said (that Smokey wrote and produced one hit single for the Diana Ross led Supremes) is correct. I, of all people, know the extent of Smokey Robinson's input on the Supremes: he got them their first audition, he stole their guitarist (Marv Taplin) away and made him the sixth Miracle, he produced a lot of their filler, etc. Smoke wrote a good bit of those early Supremes singles that didn't go anywhere. He did later write the "Floy Joy" album for the '70s Ross-less Supremes,

But Smokey Robinson's contributions to the Supremes may go a bit beyond the scope of a post about the music in "Dreamgirls" (*unless we're talking about the character of C.C. White, whose role and relation to the Dreams is not entirely analogous to Smokey's real-life role). I was trying to keep a focus on the Supremes sound in general, meaning: the hits (by Holland-Dozier-Holland and, during the later years, the revolving door of producers) and their pop standards/Broadway stuff. (and upon their most famous/popular and frequently performed recordings from those years).

>
>also, my big problem with just the music of "dreamgirls"
>('cause i got lots beyond that) is that if they were gonna
>broaden the musical palette and go beyond the more traditional
>b'way feel of the original show tunes (which i'm actually a
>big fan of), then they could have at least tried to be more
>era-accurate with what they came up with. "listen" is just
>contemporary dreck, a horrible fit for the movie's time-frame,
>while "love you i do" is -- to me -- a weak approximation of
>the era they were going for. but then, i ain't a big fan of
>the cockroach of the music industry, siedah garrett. respect
>her hustle and homegirl is always on the grind, going on 40 or
>50 years now. but i mean, drag nick ashford's ass from the
>chair of his weaveologist and have him and val write some
>shit. ain't at least 2/3 of holland-dozier-holland still
>alive? they ain't doing shit... hell, if amy winehouse can do
>it, i know those old pros still got it in them.
>
>and beyonce cannot act. end of story. gorgeous and insanely
>fuckable, but otherwise useless.
>
*shrugs* Your opinion.

and all of HDH is alive and well.

  

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biscuit
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Mon Jun-04-07 10:43 AM

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23. "what he said ^"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

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*Effasig*

  

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biscuit
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Mon Jun-04-07 10:45 AM

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24. "Well then you need to UP your "musicals" watching...."
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

Your level of quality may be low.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

*Effasig*

  

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Nukkapedia
Member since Apr 16th 2006
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Mon Jun-04-07 12:31 PM

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28. "I tend towards musicals...how can I say this politely..."
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

...with ethnic casts.

"Carmen Jones", "Cabin in the Sky", and "West Side Story" are three of my favorite films of all time.

I also like a lot of drama films about black music and musicians. "Dreamgirls" is like the best of both worlds in a sense.

  

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biscuit
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Mon Jun-04-07 12:36 PM

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30. "that's pretty limiting..."
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

how can you make an informed judgement then?

but hey, whatever works.

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*Effasig*

  

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Nukkapedia
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Mon Jun-04-07 12:47 PM

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33. "I said "tend towards", not "I only watch.""
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

I was explaining why I haven't seen "The Sound of Music" or "All That Jazz", and why neither is very high on my must-watch list.

I guarantee that I've seen - and that I own - far more musical films than you. With black casts, white casts, and whatever. I don't need you to tell me I need to up my 'musicals' watching".

  

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Rick Fox Jr
Member since Feb 28th 2003
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Sun Jun-03-07 10:58 PM

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15. "This isn't GD; you're safe, brother."
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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Smetana
Member since May 16th 2007
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Mon Jun-04-07 02:37 AM

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17. "ITA"
In response to Reply # 0


          

NM

  

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biscuit
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Mon Jun-04-07 10:46 AM

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25. "You know?"
In response to Reply # 17
Mon Jun-04-07 10:47 AM by biscuit

  

          

...

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*Effasig*

  

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Sad Puppy Eyes
Member since Mar 26th 2003
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Mon Jun-04-07 09:52 AM

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20. "I agree. Worst movie I've seen in years."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Really really bad.

I thought Jennifer Hudson's rendition of 'and I am telling you' was incredible tho.

  

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Frank Longo
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Mon Jun-04-07 10:22 AM

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21. "You haven't seen many movies."
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

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biscuit
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Mon Jun-04-07 10:48 AM

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26. "I have."
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

*Effasig*

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Mon Jun-04-07 10:55 AM

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27. "But did you really think it was the WORST movie in years?"
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

Really?

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biscuit
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Mon Jun-04-07 12:33 PM

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29. "Not the worst, but definitely not deserving of the Oscar nods"
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

*Effasig*

  

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Nukkapedia
Member since Apr 16th 2006
35461 posts
Mon Jun-04-07 12:40 PM

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32. "not even the technical awards?"
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

  

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Sad Puppy Eyes
Member since Mar 26th 2003
11038 posts
Mon Jun-04-07 01:52 PM

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34. "lol...how do you know how many movies I've seen?"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
84817 posts
Mon Jun-04-07 06:34 PM

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38. "Because Dreamgirls is not THAT bad, even if you hate it."
In response to Reply # 34


  

          

The technical savvy alone should save it from "worst movie ever".

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

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Sad Puppy Eyes
Member since Mar 26th 2003
11038 posts
Tue Jun-05-07 03:40 AM

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39. "it wasn't that bad to *YOU*, Frank"
In response to Reply # 38


  

          

thats YOUR opinion. fair enough.

to *ME*, it was garbage and the technical savvy didn't redeem it at all. Horrible, horrible film. I wanted the 2 hours of my life back and I was glad I didn't pay money to see it.

In any event, I hope Pass the Popcorn doesn't become the lesson. Y'know, people are so strange...they take on the significance of texts (which really mean nothing and have nothing to do with them *personally*) as if its part of them and then if someone doesn't share their opinion, they make all kinds of presumptions about the poster who disagrees with them....when infact they don't know that person at all and have never even interacted with them lol. Suddenly they have the power of telepathy and shit, just because someone didn't like a musical *they* like.

Unless the makers of Dreamgirls are paying you, you got nothin to worry about.

You think its awesome....fine. I thought it sucked.

However, as I said, I was impressed with Hudson's performance of the song and I hope her career goes from strength to strength.


  

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
43582 posts
Mon Jun-04-07 02:06 PM

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35. "(checks watch) The official Dreamgirls backlash is only 4 months behind"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

schedule

Y'all are slippin'
______________________________________________________________________
(I REPEAT)
... and all that could have been...

  

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Nukkapedia
Member since Apr 16th 2006
35461 posts
Mon Jun-04-07 02:51 PM

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36. "some of these folks are just late. And mean."
In response to Reply # 35
Mon Jun-04-07 03:01 PM by Nukkapedia

  

          

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