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Subject: "Alot of producers died when sampling looping became obsolete" Previous topic | Next topic
ABROCK33
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Mon Apr-16-12 11:11 AM

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"Alot of producers died when sampling looping became obsolete"


  

          

When the sampling laws became so restrictive and cost prohibitive that it became near impossible to continue hh producers either had to A)learn to chop and disguise their stuff
or
B)Start messin w/ synths
or
C)go to live instruments

if not they just died off like dinosaurs

who are those producers that never turned the corner and mastered any or all of the above?

--------------------
"Good hair"-Uzi

1619 the 1st slaves are brought to American shores
thus begins the phrase “mine is better than yours?” (huh?)
forced to serve-too broke to by freedom
the systematic rape of African culture has begun
little time

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
Diamond D
Apr 16th 2012
1
I feel sorry for him...
Apr 16th 2012
18
      Diamond SPECIFICALY was really the impetus behind this post
Apr 16th 2012
19
           His second album lacked the energy IMO...
Apr 16th 2012
21
           its cuz HE/HIS SKILLS didnt get any better
Apr 16th 2012
22
                DEFLATE CHA
Apr 17th 2012
43
                Hiatus (Remix) might be my favorite Diamond D song...
Apr 17th 2012
58
           Fuck "The market" and it's treads and taste.
Apr 17th 2012
114
Just Blaze DID. Pete Rock kinda didn't
Apr 16th 2012
2
the last post about the death of sampling caused some
Apr 16th 2012
3
im not celebrating sampling as an arts demise
Apr 16th 2012
4
The Bomb Squad
Apr 16th 2012
5
yup, Hank Shocklee talked about it in his Red Bull lecture
Apr 16th 2012
9
i dont think the laws had as big an effect as changing tastes
Apr 16th 2012
6
i disagree their is still and will always be a "boom/bap" market
Apr 16th 2012
7
true, but as the default sound of hip hop
Apr 16th 2012
12
      wait..what..???
Apr 18th 2012
115
           i never said it had 'grown'
Apr 18th 2012
129
The law didn't change. Folks just started cracking down and
Apr 16th 2012
8
it'd be nice if you could use everything and just pay something
Apr 16th 2012
13
boom bap is newer than 808
Apr 16th 2012
34
      this beat KICKS
Apr 16th 2012
36
           ?
Apr 16th 2012
39
such restriction limited RZA to mere mortal
Apr 16th 2012
10
he came after the period AB is talking about
Apr 16th 2012
29
i for one will NEVER get tired of boom bap..
Apr 16th 2012
11
^
Apr 16th 2012
28
When it comes to Hip Hop production...
Apr 16th 2012
14
what year is this??? *cue twilight zone theme*
Apr 16th 2012
15
93 til infinity, bitch
Apr 16th 2012
32
I agree, but some people have a hard time understanding this.
Apr 16th 2012
16
      RE: I agree, but some people have a hard time understanding this.
Apr 16th 2012
17
      RE: I agree, but some people have a hard time understanding this.
Apr 16th 2012
20
      they like anything though
Apr 16th 2012
35
      ehhhh, the playing on non-sampled beats has gotten much better
Apr 17th 2012
50
           RE: ehhhh, the playing on non-sampled beats has gotten much better
Apr 17th 2012
52
           i wouldn't call sampling crap, though
Apr 17th 2012
55
           you're listening to the wrong type of music
Apr 17th 2012
57
                sampling can be done well, etc. but it is not the way
Apr 17th 2012
62
           Do you mind posting up a few examples?
Apr 17th 2012
90
                will post some later
Apr 18th 2012
117
Most of the east coast producers
Apr 16th 2012
23
I take exception to Large Pro being dead
Apr 16th 2012
24
I feel it's a combination of alot of things
Apr 16th 2012
25
RE: I feel it's a combination of alot of things
Apr 16th 2012
38
      yeah i'll never get this mindset at all
Apr 17th 2012
54
      thats sad
Apr 17th 2012
106
      Someone may not look at it as difficult though
Apr 17th 2012
112
Did ya'll see the doc Copyright Criminals? about sampling
Apr 16th 2012
26
Thanks!
Apr 16th 2012
27
Just reminded me why I don't like Steve Albini
Apr 16th 2012
37
      every interview ive ever read of him
Apr 16th 2012
40
      dude's a cockcuddler w/r/t this topic
Apr 17th 2012
69
RE: Alot of producers died when sampling looping became obsolete
Apr 16th 2012
30
hmmm you right, BUT missing the point of the post
Apr 16th 2012
31
madlib is the rose that grew from the copyright law concrete
Apr 16th 2012
41
lol
Apr 16th 2012
42
RE: madlib is the rose that grew from the copyright law concrete
Apr 17th 2012
44
      what i meant is
Apr 17th 2012
47
exactly
Apr 17th 2012
49
Madlib lies under the cloak of relative obscurity
Apr 17th 2012
76
RE: the beatminerz
Apr 16th 2012
33
RE: the beatminerz
Apr 17th 2012
45
the essence
Apr 17th 2012
56
this is why dnb/electronic producers are more talented
Apr 17th 2012
46
thats not fair
Apr 17th 2012
48
      RE: thats not fair
Apr 17th 2012
51
      LOL. stop it. please
Apr 17th 2012
59
           RE: LOL. stop it. please
Apr 17th 2012
63
                nigga did you misread where i said im exaggerating
Apr 17th 2012
68
                they some hoe ass hip hop republicans treating sampling...
Apr 17th 2012
80
                thats the same thing i was saying...
Apr 17th 2012
107
                none of these dudes have ever done anything with a rapper
Apr 17th 2012
109
RE: Alot of producers died when sampling looping became obsolete
Apr 17th 2012
53
^^^^^^^^^^^^
Apr 17th 2012
60
RE: Alot of producers died when sampling looping became obsolete
Apr 17th 2012
65
      get the fuck over it dude
Apr 17th 2012
78
           RE: get the fuck over it dude
Apr 17th 2012
83
                i hate posting on phones
Apr 17th 2012
86
                proper response here:
Apr 17th 2012
93
                     RE: proper response here:
Apr 17th 2012
98
                          im NOT talkin about records, im talkin abt HIPHOP MUSIC
Apr 17th 2012
99
I've always felt that way about Pete Rock
Apr 17th 2012
61
Marley Marl
Apr 17th 2012
64
all the way @ #64, he was the first that came to mind
Apr 18th 2012
118
this thread makes me throw up in my mouth
Apr 17th 2012
66
crawl before you walk type thing....
Apr 17th 2012
67
I pretty much disagree with everything you just wrote
Apr 17th 2012
70
me too man...
Apr 17th 2012
71
      well I'm a unique high standards for progress man, yup
Apr 17th 2012
72
           LOL
Apr 17th 2012
73
                Using other people's stuff is crawling, to walk, it is time for the
Apr 17th 2012
74
youre a hot mess
Apr 17th 2012
110
      lol
Apr 18th 2012
119
way over generalzing to call of them tools..
Apr 17th 2012
77
these turkeys were already dead because
Apr 17th 2012
75
RE: these turkeys were already dead because
Apr 17th 2012
104
as a sample-based beat maker
Apr 17th 2012
79
to the people in this thread bemoaning hip hop producers, beat makers
Apr 17th 2012
81
exactly
Apr 17th 2012
88
I dont know how this thread turned into a sampling vs non sampling
Apr 17th 2012
82
the lesson is where music snobs and oldhead hiphoppers collide
Apr 17th 2012
84
i got the premise of your original post, I have no issue with it at all
Apr 17th 2012
85
I agree and its frustrating
Apr 17th 2012
92
it's because these nigaaz DONT KNOW HOW TO READ
Apr 17th 2012
102
      u feel my pain
Apr 17th 2012
103
      RE: it's because these nigaaz DONT KNOW HOW TO READ
Apr 17th 2012
105
RE: Alot of producers died when sampling looping became obsolete
Apr 17th 2012
87
?
Apr 17th 2012
91
RE: ?
Apr 17th 2012
95
      rappers delight was a replayed loop
Apr 17th 2012
96
      RE: rappers delight was a replayed loop
Apr 17th 2012
101
      nah
Apr 17th 2012
97
TWO TURNTABLES AND A MIC
Apr 17th 2012
94
      its all comes from the dj and the break...
Apr 18th 2012
120
RE: Alot of producers died when sampling looping became obsolete
Apr 17th 2012
89
RE: Alot of producers died when sampling looping became obsolete
Apr 17th 2012
100
sounds like ur saying it wasnt fully formed until the sampler
Apr 17th 2012
111
      RE: sounds like ur saying it wasnt fully formed until the sampler
Apr 17th 2012
113
RE: Alot of producers died when sampling looping became obsolete
Apr 17th 2012
108
Jesus you people REALLY need to put down the Kool Aide.
Apr 18th 2012
116
JESUS FUCN CHRIST
Apr 18th 2012
128
the BEATNUTS
Apr 18th 2012
121
Shawn J Period fell on his own sword.
Apr 18th 2012
122
they did get through the early '00s... but yeah MILK ME was the end
Apr 18th 2012
123
      LES IS DOING AN ALBUM WITH
Apr 18th 2012
125
           Les seems real ambitious right now...
Apr 18th 2012
127
DJ Premier
Apr 18th 2012
124
no way... he distinguished himself when LOOPING became obsolete
Apr 18th 2012
126

ABROCK33
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Mon Apr-16-12 11:11 AM

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1. "Diamond D"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

.

--------------------
"Good hair"-Uzi

1619 the 1st slaves are brought to American shores
thus begins the phrase “mine is better than yours?” (huh?)
forced to serve-too broke to by freedom
the systematic rape of African culture has begun
little time

  

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Jakob Hellberg
Member since Apr 18th 2005
9765 posts
Mon Apr-16-12 05:40 PM

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18. "I feel sorry for him..."
In response to Reply # 1


          

He was never one of those guys who chopped-up or manipulated the samples too much (well, he did the low-pass filtered basslines pretty damn well). Instead, he was pretty much the textbook definition of the rare groove Dj as a producer:A guy who knew all the cool breaks, loops and basslines and had the *ear* to put them together nice. I heard many times that he could ask for a shitload of money for a beat despite never really making mainstream hits. All of a sudden, his knowledge is not just played out but downright irrelevant... Maybe he can still live off that song he produced on ''the Score''.

  

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ABROCK33
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Mon Apr-16-12 05:51 PM

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19. "Diamond SPECIFICALY was really the impetus behind this post"
In response to Reply # 18
Mon Apr-16-12 05:53 PM by ABROCK33

  

          

I didnt want to just come out and say his name in the subject tho as people would think I was crapping on him

when SBHH dropped he was all the rage. it was being touted as an instant classic (which it is) and he was immediatly put into the same catagory as Primo,RZA, QTip, PR etc...

as time went on tho all of his peers have adjusted their sounds to reflect not only the tastes and trends of the market but also have leared to work with samples less exstensivly or learned how to chop and disguise their samples. Thus they have stayed viable.

Unfortunatly he hasnt updated his skill set or atleast he waited too long to. Ive heard some of his non sampled beats and they arent good enough to distinguish themselves from any other new jack prod beats.

I wonder how and why did this happen?

cats were choppin rare french records and he was stil loopin David Axelrod

Its hard to feel sorry for him. its as if he rested on his laurals and ignored what was going on in hip hop outside of his own studio. Even his 2nd record didnt pack as much punch because he tried the SAME formula as the first but hip hop had changed.

that being said scenarios like this are why IMO he isn't a top tier prod; takeing nothing away from SBHH but beyond that and a few singles he is just average when compared to his peers

--------------------
"Good hair"-Uzi

1619 the 1st slaves are brought to American shores
thus begins the phrase “mine is better than yours?” (huh?)
forced to serve-too broke to by freedom
the systematic rape of African culture has begun
little time

  

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Jakob Hellberg
Member since Apr 18th 2005
9765 posts
Mon Apr-16-12 06:04 PM

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21. "His second album lacked the energy IMO..."
In response to Reply # 19


          

He was trying to fit in by using lower BPM's and a more "serious"/moody delivery but my favourite song off there was probably "Gather round" which sounded like an outtake from the debut and pretty "dated" in the context of the late 90's.

Also, he tried the Puffy-thing on a few songs (that "Can't keep my grands to myself"-song? YUCK!). I still dug the record as a whole but it was not close to the debut...

  

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ABROCK33
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Mon Apr-16-12 06:09 PM

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22. "its cuz HE/HIS SKILLS didnt get any better"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

their wasnt that progresion PR made from Mecca to MI

he didnt master synths like RZA did from 36 to Forever

its like he used all his ace in the hole records the first time out

but now when he was left on his own the covers were pulled off him

HIS skills on their own tho were suspect

have u heard any of his solo stuff?

the Hugh Hefner Chronicles? LOL really Diamond, really?

--------------------
"Good hair"-Uzi

1619 the 1st slaves are brought to American shores
thus begins the phrase “mine is better than yours?” (huh?)
forced to serve-too broke to by freedom
the systematic rape of African culture has begun
little time

  

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WARGOD357
Member since Jan 21st 2006
1403 posts
Tue Apr-17-12 12:24 AM

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43. "DEFLATE CHA"
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkqBfTJqYqA

P.MONCH SHINE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCFxldvqNKM

You slap the nigga(DRAKE) five n he gon moisturize ya palms nahmean!-BIG GHOST NAHMEAN!

  

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My_SP1200_Broken_Again
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Tue Apr-17-12 11:25 AM

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58. "Hiatus (Remix) might be my favorite Diamond D song..."
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

....maybe not favorite all time, but that shit is incredible

  

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I. Motion
Member since Jun 17th 2009
836 posts
Tue Apr-17-12 11:55 PM

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114. "Fuck "The market" and it's treads and taste."
In response to Reply # 19


          

  

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T Reynolds
Member since Apr 16th 2007
42595 posts
Mon Apr-16-12 11:15 AM

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2. "Just Blaze DID. Pete Rock kinda didn't"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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c71
Member since Jan 15th 2008
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Mon Apr-16-12 11:25 AM

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3. "the last post about the death of sampling caused some "
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Apr-16-12 11:25 AM by c71

  

          

replies stating that someone would have to be ignorant to not recognize that sampling culture is thriving....so, I don't want to celebrate sampling dying just yet....though I hope sampling does die a quick death.

  

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ABROCK33
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Mon Apr-16-12 11:27 AM

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4. "im not celebrating sampling as an arts demise"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

more so I am remembering some of the producers who relied exclusivly on sampling but who couldn't find a way to "adjust" and still be creative working w/o strait loops

--------------------
"Good hair"-Uzi

1619 the 1st slaves are brought to American shores
thus begins the phrase “mine is better than yours?” (huh?)
forced to serve-too broke to by freedom
the systematic rape of African culture has begun
little time

  

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ABROCK33
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Mon Apr-16-12 11:28 AM

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5. "The Bomb Squad"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

.

--------------------
"Good hair"-Uzi

1619 the 1st slaves are brought to American shores
thus begins the phrase “mine is better than yours?” (huh?)
forced to serve-too broke to by freedom
the systematic rape of African culture has begun
little time

  

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DolphinTeef
Member since Oct 25th 2009
7027 posts
Mon Apr-16-12 03:13 PM

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9. "yup, Hank Shocklee talked about it in his Red Bull lecture"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

  

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GumDrops
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Mon Apr-16-12 11:29 AM

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6. "i dont think the laws had as big an effect as changing tastes"
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Apr-16-12 11:34 AM by GumDrops

  

          

and that it was just time for something new. people just got tired of boom bap.

  

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ABROCK33
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Mon Apr-16-12 11:42 AM

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7. "i disagree their is still and will always be a "boom/bap" market"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          


some people may never grow tired of it

then their are always the younger generation who gets introduced to it and likes

theirs also the foreign market
etc...

--------------------
"Good hair"-Uzi

1619 the 1st slaves are brought to American shores
thus begins the phrase “mine is better than yours?” (huh?)
forced to serve-too broke to by freedom
the systematic rape of African culture has begun
little time

  

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GumDrops
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Mon Apr-16-12 04:16 PM

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12. "true, but as the default sound of hip hop"
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

boom baps reign basically ended quite a while ago

not much boom bap on the new nicki minaj album for instance.

and i would even go so far as to say that using a sample loop (like on that jeezy/drake/jay-z song) doesnt necessarily = boom bap

just cos its got a loop, dont make it boom bap troop, as guru sort of said

  

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I. Motion
Member since Jun 17th 2009
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Wed Apr-18-12 12:06 AM

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115. "wait..what..???"
In response to Reply # 12


          

you actually using Nicki Minaj as a representative of how hip hop music has "grown" because it lack boom bap???





>boom baps reign basically ended quite a while ago
>
>not much boom bap on the new nicki minaj album for instance.
>
>and i would even go so far as to say that using a sample loop
>(like on that jeezy/drake/jay-z song) doesnt necessarily =
>boom bap
>
>just cos its got a loop, dont make it boom bap troop, as guru
>sort of said
>
>

  

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GumDrops
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129. "i never said it had 'grown'"
In response to Reply # 115


  

          

i said it had CHANGED

and it has

the guys that think boom bap will never die, sure, it will always be around, people will always like it, and big name artists will return to it on occasion, do a few token old school sounding tracks on each album, but as the main form of hip hop, as the dominant sound of hip hop, as its default mode, boom baps time was quite a long time ago now.

as for minaj, she was just the example i used to explain how if even one of the biggest rap artists today doesnt even do the token boom bap song on her album, it just shows that it doesnt mean what it used to.

not sure how this is even arguable tbh.

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Mon Apr-16-12 02:46 PM

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8. "The law didn't change. Folks just started cracking down and "
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

charging more.

**********
"Hey, man, salute to all the beautiful doctors, everybody that�s researching and helping find cures. Salute to everyone who�s finding cures to diseaaaases. Everybody that�s aiding the people. -Lil B

  

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k_orr
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Mon Apr-16-12 04:33 PM

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13. "it'd be nice if you could use everything and just pay something"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

reasonable after the fact.

Like if you straight jack the Rolling Stone's I can't get no, with all the trademark licks and what not, you pay out 95% of whatever biz

  

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AlBundy
Member since May 27th 2002
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Mon Apr-16-12 09:59 PM

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34. "boom bap is newer than 808"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

-------------------------
“The other dude after me didn’t help my case. It was just like…crazy nigga factory going on.”
Dre makes no apologies for his own eccentricities. “I was young, and searching, trying to find myself,” he says. “Never did.”-- Andre B

  

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Nodima
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Mon Apr-16-12 10:12 PM

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36. "this beat KICKS"
In response to Reply # 34


  

          


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." © Jay Bilas

http://www.last.fm/user/NodimaChee
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
http://rateyourmusic.com/list/Nodima/run_that_shit__nodimas_hip_hop_handbook

  

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AlBundy
Member since May 27th 2002
9621 posts
Mon Apr-16-12 10:46 PM

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39. "?"
In response to Reply # 36


  

          

-------------------------
“The other dude after me didn’t help my case. It was just like…crazy nigga factory going on.”
Dre makes no apologies for his own eccentricities. “I was young, and searching, trying to find myself,” he says. “Never did.”-- Andre B

  

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DolphinTeef
Member since Oct 25th 2009
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Mon Apr-16-12 03:16 PM

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10. "such restriction limited RZA to mere mortal"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
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Mon Apr-16-12 09:33 PM

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29. "he came after the period AB is talking about"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

AND Wu was so big 93-97 he could afford his samples/chops. he was actually one of the first sample based producers to attempt to move towards chords/synths and incorporation of live instrumentation to great and really bad results.

  

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CB_010
Member since Mar 01st 2006
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Mon Apr-16-12 03:47 PM

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11. "i for one will NEVER get tired of boom bap.."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

i just dont like those light ass TR 909 drums
that seem to be the THING nowadays..
i can appreciate a dope chord change but a sample flip will ALWAYS be
f*ckin amazing to me..

but yeah thats just me..

hiphop is a sampling sport

___________________________
http://www.soundcloud.com/cb010
https://soundcloud.com/kofitheunkn0wn

  

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Ishwip
Member since Jun 10th 2005
19930 posts
Mon Apr-16-12 08:55 PM

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28. "^"
In response to Reply # 11


          

>i just dont like those light ass TR 909 drums
>that seem to be the THING nowadays..
>i can appreciate a dope chord change but a sample flip will
>ALWAYS be
>f*ckin amazing to me..
>
>but yeah thats just me..
>
>hiphop is a sampling sport
>
>


__
I don't like the beat anymore because its just a loop. ALC didn't FLIP IT ENOUGH!

Flip it enough? Flip these. Flip off. Go flip some f*cking burgers.(c)Kno

Allied State of the National Electric Beat Treaty Organization (NEBTO)

  

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PCProductions
Member since Oct 31st 2009
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14. "When it comes to Hip Hop production..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

Sampling is better than not sampling

  

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DolphinTeef
Member since Oct 25th 2009
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15. "what year is this??? *cue twilight zone theme*"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

  

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AlBundy
Member since May 27th 2002
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32. "93 til infinity, bitch"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mt3vZHDiM8&feature=player_detailpage

  

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third_i_vision
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16. "I agree, but some people have a hard time understanding this."
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

If you don't know how to play an instrument, you can either:

A) Take lessons

B) Sample/record someone who can

Three-note keyboard patterns over stiff drum sounds and an 808 bass hit?

LOL that shit should've been dead years ago.

To each his own, however. I can talk about the merits of sampling all day, break down techniques, give examples, whatever.

But at the end of the day.....some people just like simple ass shit. They liked "Laffy Taffy." They defend Swizz Beatz. They listen to the radio. They always think "newer" = "better."

*shrug*

Bowls
http://twitter.com/Bowls615

  

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PCProductions
Member since Oct 31st 2009
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17. "RE: I agree, but some people have a hard time understanding this."
In response to Reply # 16


          

>But at the end of the day.....some people just like simple ass
>shit. They liked "Laffy Taffy." They defend Swizz Beatz.
>They listen to the radio. They always think "newer" =
>"better."
>
>*shrug*

It's funny though, because you'll notice that most peoples' favorite beats are the ones that use samples. Now obviously this is completely subjective, but you can't help but notice that a lot of people find a quality in hip hop that uses samples. This is a BIG reason that kids and teenagers that just got into hip hop fucking love 90's East Coast rap. There's a good reason as to why people love The Blueprint or College Dropout and see them as stand out records, they were released at a time when sampling became rare and expensive for the main stream.

Some people don't like sampling and feel it is morally irresponsible and reprehensible, others aren't total idiots and actually see the artistic merits of it. I'm fine with disagreeing with the former without a need to argue my points, they're a waste of my time anyway. But hip hop is an art that uses sampling, and sounds much better when it does than when it doesnt (exceptions include the Neptunes and Timbaland, of course)

  

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Thanes1975
Member since Aug 03rd 2011
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20. "RE: I agree, but some people have a hard time understanding this."
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

you took words out of my mouth...agree 100%

"Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds."-Albert Einstein

http://twitter.com/#!/TonyHanesPoetry

  

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AlBundy
Member since May 27th 2002
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35. "they like anything though"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

theyre not clamoring to hear laffy taffy now. the record doesnt stand up.
they want the next thing radio is cramming down their throat every 7 minutes

-------------------------
“The other dude after me didn’t help my case. It was just like…crazy nigga factory going on.”
Dre makes no apologies for his own eccentricities. “I was young, and searching, trying to find myself,” he says. “Never did.”-- Andre B

  

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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
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Tue Apr-17-12 07:52 AM

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50. "ehhhh, the playing on non-sampled beats has gotten much better"
In response to Reply # 16


          

laffy taffy type beats were hot for a split second, then cats got better.

I loooove samples, but some of the original music today is pretty damn good

  

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c71
Member since Jan 15th 2008
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52. "RE: ehhhh, the playing on non-sampled beats has gotten much better"
In response to Reply # 50


  

          

>laffy taffy type beats were hot for a split second, then
>cats got better.
>

CATS GOT BETTER

yes that is possible, so let go of the crap (sampling) and get better.

k?

  

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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
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55. "i wouldn't call sampling crap, though"
In response to Reply # 52


          

I mean, sample interpolation is still a form of sampling, and some str8 up loops are still interesting, when done well...chopping is relatively infinite as a production technique (Gotta have it on watch the throne is ill as shit, for example).

I just laugh when cats characterize music as sampled or laffy-taffy bullshit. That ain't the case at all

  

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PCProductions
Member since Oct 31st 2009
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57. "you're listening to the wrong type of music"
In response to Reply # 52


          

If you don't like sampling.

  

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c71
Member since Jan 15th 2008
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62. "sampling can be done well, etc. but it is not the way"
In response to Reply # 57


  

          

of progress. Creating your own stuff is progress. I'm on the side of progress. Create your own stuff, record your own stuff and chop that if you must.

I just did a Henry Threadgill Zooid post, so that should tell anyone where my "listening to the right type of music" thing is.

  

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third_i_vision
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90. "Do you mind posting up a few examples?"
In response to Reply # 50


  

          

I honestly don't keep up with most new rap. The internet's endless sea of music drowned me a few years ago.

If it can't hold up to the standard that G-Funk and Organized Noize set in the mid-to-late 90's, I probably won't be able to fuck with it.

Ironically, I fuck with a lot of the simpler sample-based beats that sound like they could've been played live. The fact that the melody could've came from a 1981 electronic LP has always been dope to me. Shit like the "We Here" beat off the Illa J album, for example.

Kraftwerk drums
LA Express synth
A "simple" bassline

I don't know, that shit is just nuts. I guess it's all in the ear. Plus I'm a record nerd, so you already know I'm repping for the samples!

Bowls
http://twitter.com/Bowls615

  

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kayru99
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117. "will post some later"
In response to Reply # 90


          

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
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23. "Most of the east coast producers"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Out west and down south pretty much always had live instruments along with samples. I think that's why that music doesn't sound as dated. Large Pro, Pete Rock, diggin in the crates, etc all got dealt the death blow once sampling went out the window. Even Premier and that's my nigga. Primo got to the point where he'd chop a sample up so much that it didn't even sound like music.

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

OutKast, Gang Starr, UGK, Mobb Deep and Eightball & MJG

  

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ABROCK33
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24. "I take exception to Large Pro being dead"
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

peep his instrumental cds for proof

he's got some stuff that will blow your mind that doesnt have his 90's stamp all over it

I think he still makes quality beats useing samples but they are incorporated into the music

otherwise I agree with your premise about west coast and southern hip hop not sounding as dated

--------------------
"Good hair"-Uzi

1619 the 1st slaves are brought to American shores
thus begins the phrase “mine is better than yours?” (huh?)
forced to serve-too broke to by freedom
the systematic rape of African culture has begun
little time

  

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Alphabet
Member since Jun 28th 2003
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Mon Apr-16-12 06:55 PM

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25. "I feel it's a combination of alot of things"
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Apr-16-12 06:56 PM by Alphabet

  

          

Sampling laws played a part yes,

Also I think the stereotype and perception of rap/hip-hop's "We Get Money" culture hurt. Because alot of the old heads had this perception that if one of 'those rappers' sample any of their shit..they like "Shit Im about to go to the bank!", not realizing most of the hip-hop artist thats sampling them like that are underground artist..and NOT the Jay's, Snoop's and Em's of the world..

This maybe just my perspective, but the emergence and takeover in software based production has made it less 'fun' to sample. I know with me all these programs have the slicer and chopper tools in them...and you run a sample through that boy..chop it up..throw some drums on it and call it a day. It's definitely not as adventurous as creating from scratch with the software synths or bringing in live instruments..

So alot of the sampling vets prolly on some been/there done that tip and just wading the water hoping the tide will change back to a demand in sampling..

  

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AlBundy
Member since May 27th 2002
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Mon Apr-16-12 10:44 PM

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38. "RE: I feel it's a combination of alot of things"
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

>This maybe just my perspective, but the emergence and takeover
>in software based production has made it less 'fun' to sample.
>I know with me all these programs have the slicer and chopper
>tools in them...and you run a sample through that boy..chop it
>up..throw some drums on it and call it a day. It's definitely
>not as adventurous as creating from scratch with the software
>synths or bringing in live instruments..

all of that is completely subjective. hardware has most if not the same tools. something doesnt need to be difficult to be fun or fulfilling

-------------------------
“The other dude after me didn’t help my case. It was just like…crazy nigga factory going on.”
Dre makes no apologies for his own eccentricities. “I was young, and searching, trying to find myself,” he says. “Never did.”-- Andre B

  

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ChuckFoPrez
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54. "yeah i'll never get this mindset at all"
In response to Reply # 38


  

          

>something doesnt need to be difficult to be
>fun or fulfilling

https://twitter.com/chuck4prez

  

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AlBundy
Member since May 27th 2002
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106. "thats sad"
In response to Reply # 54


  

          

is it difficult when you sex your old lady?

-------------------------
“The other dude after me didn’t help my case. It was just like…crazy nigga factory going on.”
Dre makes no apologies for his own eccentricities. “I was young, and searching, trying to find myself,” he says. “Never did.”-- Andre B

  

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Alphabet
Member since Jun 28th 2003
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112. "Someone may not look at it as difficult though"
In response to Reply # 38


  

          

Yes, It is subjective. I also know Im not the only one that gets off on the pursuit, the chase or the process of production just as well as the finished creation.

I mean that was part of the joy of diggin, but now you got known crate diggin legends that have said they haven't been diggin in YEARS, on some "ohh it's not the same, I got all the records already"..ect

Not trying to sound like a Bruce Lee psychologist here, but I would think at a certain point in a person's craft they search and thirst for new challenges as to not stay stagnant.

So a producer like a Kanye or Just Blaze who built their career off sampling (and actually have the money to sample) doesn't do it NEARLY as much. Creatively they are onto other things.

With "Otis", NO ID said in a interview (I think XXL) he had to damn near twist Kanye's arm and MAKE him do that record, Ye made that shit is like 15 minutes on some "Okay here, are you happy? Now let me get back to my Niggas IN Paris shit.."

  

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Alphabet
Member since Jun 28th 2003
4402 posts
Mon Apr-16-12 07:00 PM

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26. "Did ya'll see the doc Copyright Criminals? about sampling "
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Apr-16-12 07:01 PM by Alphabet

  

          

and the changed in the laws over the years on how it affected the music. It came out a couple ears ago in '09. Got De La, Bomb Sqaud, Q-Bert alot of cats..

Here is go if you didn't see it
https://vimeo.com/9958864

#PicABeat Audio Photo series. Where the beat is inspired by the photo.
http://soundcloud.com/KingAkai

http://kingakai.com

“I love these bitches, man. I really do.”
- Andre 3000

  

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zuma1986
Member since Dec 18th 2006
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27. "Thanks!"
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
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37. "Just reminded me why I don't like Steve Albini"
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

OutKast, Gang Starr, UGK, Mobb Deep and Eightball & MJG

  

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AlBundy
Member since May 27th 2002
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40. "every interview ive ever read of him"
In response to Reply # 37


  

          

hes so full of himself.

-------------------------
“The other dude after me didn’t help my case. It was just like…crazy nigga factory going on.”
Dre makes no apologies for his own eccentricities. “I was young, and searching, trying to find myself,” he says. “Never did.”-- Andre B

  

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Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
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69. "dude's a cockcuddler w/r/t this topic"
In response to Reply # 37
Tue Apr-17-12 01:30 PM by Dr Claw

  

          

undeniably.

  

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all stah
Member since Sep 03rd 2005
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Mon Apr-16-12 09:39 PM

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30. "RE: Alot of producers died when sampling looping became obsolete"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Madlib laughs at this post

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
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Mon Apr-16-12 09:49 PM

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31. "hmmm you right, BUT missing the point of the post"
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

.

  

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AlBundy
Member since May 27th 2002
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41. "madlib is the rose that grew from the copyright law concrete"
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

-------------------------
“The other dude after me didn’t help my case. It was just like…crazy nigga factory going on.”
Dre makes no apologies for his own eccentricities. “I was young, and searching, trying to find myself,” he says. “Never did.”-- Andre B

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
20029 posts
Mon Apr-16-12 11:04 PM

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42. "lol"
In response to Reply # 41


  

          

.

  

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all stah
Member since Sep 03rd 2005
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44. "RE: madlib is the rose that grew from the copyright law concrete"
In response to Reply # 41
Tue Apr-17-12 01:02 AM by all stah

          

And Jake One?

He flipped the entire essence of sampling, by having the instruments played, or playing them himself, then sampling the sound. I thought his entire White Van Music was a album full of samples, until I read the story behind it.

Cats got lazy.

Dilla could play the drums and Keys. Lib can to, and I think Jake One can play as well.

There are ways around sampling laws to where you can still sample, but you have to be creative with it...

Knxwledge samples like crazy. Star Slinger samples like crazy. Dibia$e samples like crazy.Flying Lotus samples like crazy...

Don't get me wrong, sampling laws did injure the art and creativity of sampling to a certain extent, but it didn't eradicate sampling. However, those one trick pony producers got introduced to the door once they realized that they had to take their game to the next level.

I personally feel that Dilla came along and crushed the science of sampling, and created other doors by doing so, and the aforementioned artists came through those doors, while a lot of boom bap beat makers got left behind.





  

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AlBundy
Member since May 27th 2002
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47. "what i meant is"
In response to Reply # 44


  

          

i dont think madlib would have risen to the prominence he has if not for
the conditions sampling exist in.
it helped to create his niche

  

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OKdamn
Member since Dec 04th 2010
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Tue Apr-17-12 07:33 AM

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49. "exactly"
In response to Reply # 30


          

  

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DolphinTeef
Member since Oct 25th 2009
7027 posts
Tue Apr-17-12 03:21 PM

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76. "Madlib lies under the cloak of relative obscurity"
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

if he was making hits with Kanye i gaurentee you all the publishing companies will be BALLS DEEP © Hodgetwins

  

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rmcphedr
Member since Feb 11th 2006
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Mon Apr-16-12 09:56 PM

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33. "RE: the beatminerz"
In response to Reply # 0


          

i was just thinking the same thought this morning while listening to 'dah shinin'. dudes did not have a style conducive to change.

  

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all stah
Member since Sep 03rd 2005
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45. "RE: the beatminerz"
In response to Reply # 33


          

yep....there it is.

  

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ABROCK33
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56. "the essence"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

dudes did not have a style
>conducive to change.

--------------------
"Good hair"-Uzi

1619 the 1st slaves are brought to American shores
thus begins the phrase “mine is better than yours?” (huh?)
forced to serve-too broke to by freedom
the systematic rape of African culture has begun
little time

  

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organix
Member since Jul 10th 2002
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Tue Apr-17-12 03:15 AM

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46. "this is why dnb/electronic producers are more talented"
In response to Reply # 0


          

(with no disrespect to hip hop producers) other electronic artists are mostly doing original productions. part of that has to do with the lack of vocals, and needing to keep a track fresh for 6 minutes to entertain a dancefloor without an MC. hip hop beats were mostly just a backdrop for an emcee to spit over. id love to see the same amount of depth and complexity from a hip hop producer. kanye has come close in recent efforts, but i still dont feel his beats so much.

-----------------------------
http://www.shenzhenphotos.com

  

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AlBundy
Member since May 27th 2002
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48. "thats not fair"
In response to Reply # 46


  

          

conversely, most (not all) of those dudes cant make an authentic bangin hiphop beat

-------------------------
“The other dude after me didn’t help my case. It was just like…crazy nigga factory going on.”
Dre makes no apologies for his own eccentricities. “I was young, and searching, trying to find myself,” he says. “Never did.”-- Andre B

  

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all stah
Member since Sep 03rd 2005
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51. "RE: thats not fair"
In response to Reply # 48
Tue Apr-17-12 08:57 AM by all stah

          

lies

Daedelus can make one
SamIYam can flip one
Onra's chinoseries is bananas.....serious hip hop like beats
fly lo has flipped some original boom bap before
knxwledge....the list goes on and on

you are buggin hard toast style. Y'all niggas are trying to make excuses for cats who have fallen off.

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
20029 posts
Tue Apr-17-12 11:25 AM

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59. "LOL. stop it. please"
In response to Reply # 48
Tue Apr-17-12 11:28 AM by astralblak

  

          

distorted bleeps and bloops, that lack melody and harmony over phat drums DOES NOT make one better than a hip hop producer.

and yes im exaggerating, just like you where speaking in hyperbole

  

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all stah
Member since Sep 03rd 2005
23470 posts
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63. "RE: LOL. stop it. please"
In response to Reply # 59
Tue Apr-17-12 11:55 AM by all stah

          

The proverbial mr.negro please. : )

onra boom bap
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inpKcke4hQU&feature=relmfu

onra electric beat
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCS96cBgn3Q&feature=relmfu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2OkP4GXa-k&feature=related

Most electric beat artist started off making boom bap beats or breakbeats..

cmon


Boom bap is easier to make than the multiple layering, punching, and interpolation that is required in an electric beat track.



  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
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68. "nigga did you misread where i said im exaggerating"
In response to Reply # 63


  

          

point is i hate this bullshit about so and so better becuase he makes layered electronic compositions rather than just loops and chops. its dumb

  

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
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80. "they some hoe ass hip hop republicans treating sampling..."
In response to Reply # 68


  

          

like welfare

fuck em theyll never learn

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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AlBundy
Member since May 27th 2002
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Tue Apr-17-12 09:23 PM

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107. "thats the same thing i was saying..."
In response to Reply # 68


  

          

-------------------------
“The other dude after me didn’t help my case. It was just like…crazy nigga factory going on.”
Dre makes no apologies for his own eccentricities. “I was young, and searching, trying to find myself,” he says. “Never did.”-- Andre B

  

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AlBundy
Member since May 27th 2002
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109. "none of these dudes have ever done anything with a rapper"
In response to Reply # 63


  

          

that the streets feel. coincidence?

-------------------------
“The other dude after me didn’t help my case. It was just like…crazy nigga factory going on.”
Dre makes no apologies for his own eccentricities. “I was young, and searching, trying to find myself,” he says. “Never did.”-- Andre B

  

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YoungPandas
Member since Apr 17th 2012
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Tue Apr-17-12 09:32 AM

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53. "RE: Alot of producers died when sampling looping became obsolete"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I kinda feel like sampling will always be the true art form of hip hop and here's why:

So much of the feel of hip hop in its essence is created by the musical tension that samples and loops can create by their pitch or time being ever so slightly "off" from the beat, in the traditional musical sense. But this off-ness is something new and beautiful created by sampling something old that was once live instruments. And as much as we may try to recreate these feels and sounds through live instruments (like our boys in the Roots do) I think even the dude Ahmir would agree that we can never quite capture it perfectly the way an ill sample does.

So, I think that along with the producers who have mastered sampling, the true feel and essence of hip hop kind of either evolves or dies along with it. We've definitely seen some crazy shit come out of producers who are masters with the synths and live instruments... I'm not denying that. But to me, it will just never compare to the way that dilla chopped and mixed samples in a way that made you feel something cosmic was in that music.

  

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
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60. "^^^^^^^^^^^^"
In response to Reply # 53


  

          

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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all stah
Member since Sep 03rd 2005
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Tue Apr-17-12 12:05 PM

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65. "RE: Alot of producers died when sampling looping became obsolete"
In response to Reply # 53
Tue Apr-17-12 12:11 PM by all stah

          

Why do you guys insist on living in a box, a huge one at that?

Music evolves, and nothing stays the same. That is evolution. Sound will not remain the same and hold on to a constant state to appease a certain group of listeners or followers. As new ideas develop, so will the sounds that are born from them.

Dilla has come and gone, but his sounds are still with us, and people have evolved from that sound...

People have evolved from the golden era of hip hop.

Shit radiohead went from alternative rock to pure electric, and they sound better electric than they did when they were alternative( my take)


I'm a dilla head, but I hear shit in this era that gives me the same feeling that dilla's music gives me.

Fragmentation is a good thing, just ask Miles Davis....somewhere he is smiling











  

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
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78. "get the fuck over it dude"
In response to Reply # 65


  

          

u sound mad and frustrated

all ur whining abt boxes is hypocrisy bc ur tryna put hiphop in a box too, what u call evolution others view as diluting

"we" believe that sampling is the essential sound of hip hop musically

or its just our preference and we kno its essential and will last forever, get over it

for example, im not mad at jazz fusion but hard bop is still the jazz sound i love the most...it is wat it is

stop gettin upset bc ppl dont like wat u do and support wat they do like

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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all stah
Member since Sep 03rd 2005
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83. "RE: get the fuck over it dude"
In response to Reply # 78
Tue Apr-17-12 05:46 PM by all stah

          

Hey, we're debating here, no need to take it to a level of acrimony. Ease up on the name calling.


You realize I am not against sampling? I like samples. My point is music is not limited to that, which is why Madlib is still making incredible shit, because he does everything, and so does Jake One.


Also you do realize that Afrika Bambatta was making electric beat rap music before cats started making boom bap?

So electric beat music is closer to the roots of old school hip hop than
boom bap is.

The shit Mantronix was doing, and the shit that Man Parrish put out, that shit was all electric beat music, same thing goes for Herbie Hancock's rocket....


That's the reason why I love so much of the eletric beat stuff because it takes me back to the sounds of Arthur Russell, DNA, Glenn Branca, Liquid Liquid, ESG, Afrika B, Mantronix, etc .....

Hip Hop started off with keyboards and synthesizers, then came the MPC and SP1200

  

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
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86. "i hate posting on phones"
In response to Reply # 83
Tue Apr-17-12 06:00 PM by philpot

  

          

.

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
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93. "proper response here:"
In response to Reply # 83
Tue Apr-17-12 06:01 PM by philpot

  

          

>Hey, we're debating here, no need to take it to a level of
>acrimony. Ease up on the name calling.


"dude" is the only name i called u

>
>You realize I am not against sampling? I like samples. My
>point is music is not limited to that, which is why Madlib is
>still making incredible shit, because he does everything, and
>so does Jake One.
>

see i KNEW there was a reason white van music dropped out of my rotation after one day

i knew there was something off abtthose beats and now i kno y i wasnt feelin it


>Also you do realize that Afrika Bambatta was making electric
>beat rap music before cats started making boom bap?
>
>So electric beat music is closer to the roots of old school
>hip hop than
>boom bap is.

dj's extending loops...bambatta known as "the master of records"

>The shit Mantronix was doing, and the shit that Man Parrish
>put out, that shit was all electric beat music, same thing
>goes for Herbie Hancock's rocket....
>

it's rock IT...

and djs extending breaks still came b4 all of this, not to belittle the good music made by these artists


>That's the reason why I love so much of the eletric beat stuff
>because it takes me back to the sounds of Arthur Russell, DNA,
>Glenn Branca, Liquid Liquid, ESG, Afrika B, Mantronix, etc
>.....
>
>Hip Hop started off with keyboards and synthesizers, then came
>the MPC and SP1200
>
>

WRONG

hip hop started w/ a turntable and sound system manipulation

that is the essence


ill take herc and flash over all them

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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all stah
Member since Sep 03rd 2005
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Tue Apr-17-12 06:18 PM

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98. "RE: proper response here:"
In response to Reply # 93
Tue Apr-17-12 06:21 PM by all stah

          

I'm talking about records!...not rocking the parties and the park and the bedroom beginnings of hip hop....WE all know how hip hop STARTED out, but I'm talking about its trademark sound


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGqiBFqWCTU&feature=fvwrel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aa8hdzQ4aok&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3G_J6aMO-g&feature=related

street dance break machine??...shit ..that was my shit

All of this was way before boom bap, mpcs, and sp1200s...this was the original sound of hip hop....It was electric, new wavish, punk rockish, etc.....

THE FIRST TRADEMARK SOUND OF HIP HOP was an electric/drum beat sound

  

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
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Tue Apr-17-12 06:22 PM

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99. "im NOT talkin about records, im talkin abt HIPHOP MUSIC"
In response to Reply # 98


  

          

go try that record shit w/ a gogo fan claiming "da butt" and "bustin loose" are the true sound of gogo, see how far it gets you

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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Eric B Is Prez
Member since Nov 08th 2005
4981 posts
Tue Apr-17-12 11:47 AM

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61. "I've always felt that way about Pete Rock "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Although he obviously has talent and can produce great beats without samples.

But nowhere near the same level as in 1992.

_______________________________________________________________________________________

  

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Bombastic
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64. "Marley Marl"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

.

  

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Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
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Wed Apr-18-12 08:58 AM

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118. "all the way @ #64, he was the first that came to mind"
In response to Reply # 64


  

          

  

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apex
Member since Aug 19th 2002
702 posts
Tue Apr-17-12 12:40 PM

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66. "this thread makes me throw up in my mouth"
In response to Reply # 0


          

smh

ya'll don't get it

sampling is a tool

synths are tools

live instruments are tools

the mind of the creator IS the music you hear as a result of employing such tools

end of story

no actual working producers think the way this post is slanting towards

real producers wake up....turn the drum machine on....use their instincts to make a dope song (C) Count Bass D

period.

this a fucking lifestyle

you make beats that sound dope...with or without samples.

people in here saying sampling is crap....lol.... i guess you the herb holding up the wall when Award Tour drops....or Mass Appeal.... or Otis.... or countless other joints...

SAME applies for the great live instrument based hip hop CLASSICS...acting like you wasn't getting your boogie on to The Message....or Push It....or In Da Club

pro producers are laughing at this thread...cuz pros know that there are no rules, and you can create a modern song with samples OR a throwback song with synths.

  

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c71
Member since Jan 15th 2008
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Tue Apr-17-12 01:11 PM

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67. "crawl before you walk type thing...."
In response to Reply # 66
Tue Apr-17-12 01:31 PM by c71

  

          

sampling other people's stuff had it's time and place. Sure classics have been made using samples.

But time moves on. All that crawling (sampling) should give way to a new era of walking: people making their own music (sample and chop your own stuff). It's boring and sad to want to remain crawling.

It's embarassing to read every other month Kanye being sued from some uncleared sample used on WTT. It's the 21st century already, why be leaning on musicians you don't want to pay for their music?

It's embarassing to be in the 21st century and having to lean on other people's stuff. It's not so hard to make your own stuff or to pay people to create some new sounds for you.

I guess I have a more strict notion of progress. I want new creativity. The old was alright but time has come for new.

  

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apex
Member since Aug 19th 2002
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Tue Apr-17-12 02:01 PM

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70. "I pretty much disagree with everything you just wrote"
In response to Reply # 67


          

we'll just leave it at that.

  

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PCProductions
Member since Oct 31st 2009
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Tue Apr-17-12 02:04 PM

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71. "me too man..."
In response to Reply # 70


          

me too

  

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c71
Member since Jan 15th 2008
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72. "well I'm a unique high standards for progress man, yup"
In response to Reply # 71
Tue Apr-17-12 02:11 PM by c71

  

          

I'll gladly take criticism for KNOWING that a new era can go further than the past.

If y'all want to cling to "oh, no, since people freaked samples of other people's music in the 80's to 90's, we have to STAY THE COURSE!!!!!".....eh.....

Nah, not me. I'm on the side of the new generation being more than able to come up with some true new futuristic stuff w/o using old music.

that's me....yup

  

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apex
Member since Aug 19th 2002
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Tue Apr-17-12 02:33 PM

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73. "LOL"
In response to Reply # 72


          

yeah you're THAT dude....

i really don't want to get into this with you, but i'll ask you this question:

do you realize that artists mastered live instruments way before sampling existed?

assuming your answer is yes....then the next question is: why wouldn't sampling be considered futuristic, creative, next level, etc?

cuz my initial response to your opinion was that actually sampling could be considered the more advanced or futuristic approach depending on your perspective....

a sample is just a sound bro.... just like the sound generator in a synth...what you do with the sound depends on the creativity in your mind.

since you seem slow, i'll try to spell it out for you: it doesn't fucking matter if you sample or not...

  

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c71
Member since Jan 15th 2008
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74. "Using other people's stuff is crawling, to walk, it is time for the"
In response to Reply # 73


  

          

new: create your own to progress into the now/future. Sample/chop your newly created stuff or the newly created music of someone you are collaborating with.

That's just my high standards of true futuristic creativity. Doing the work yourself or someone you are working with doing the work adds the NECESSARY NOW-NESS of true present day modern creativity.

no getting around it.

  

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AlBundy
Member since May 27th 2002
9621 posts
Tue Apr-17-12 09:31 PM

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110. "youre a hot mess"
In response to Reply # 67


  

          

-------------------------
“The other dude after me didn’t help my case. It was just like…crazy nigga factory going on.”
Dre makes no apologies for his own eccentricities. “I was young, and searching, trying to find myself,” he says. “Never did.”-- Andre B

  

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Ishwip
Member since Jun 10th 2005
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Wed Apr-18-12 09:24 AM

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119. "lol"
In response to Reply # 110


          


__
I don't like the beat anymore because its just a loop. ALC didn't FLIP IT ENOUGH!

Flip it enough? Flip these. Flip off. Go flip some f*cking burgers.(c)Kno

Allied State of the National Electric Beat Treaty Organization (NEBTO)

  

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Warren Coolidge
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Tue Apr-17-12 04:38 PM

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77. "way over generalzing to call of them tools.."
In response to Reply # 66


  

          

>smh
>
>ya'll don't get it
>
>sampling is a tool
>
>synths are tools
>
>live instruments are tools
>
>the mind of the creator IS the music you hear as a result of
>employing such tools
>
>end of story

and it also requires more than a MIND to create something with live instruments or synths. It requires actual proficiency to play said "instrument"....

sampling something that already has instrements on kind of means that sampling and playing are not really the same things....

you don't need another tool to use a hammer...or a saw...it stands on it's own.... sampling requires the existance of other tools.





>
>

  

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mistermaxxx08
Member since Dec 31st 2010
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Tue Apr-17-12 02:56 PM

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75. "these turkeys were already dead because "
In response to Reply # 0


          

when you gotta sample and loop the same beat, groove,etc.. to put bread on the table and the said label head is pushing this or that on you well you aren't going to be ever seen as original anyway.

makes turkeys have to come up with there own thing and it should have always been the case instead of being a Karoke machine.

turkeys calling themselves producers basically playing name that tune? its truly sad.

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

  

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all stah
Member since Sep 03rd 2005
23470 posts
Tue Apr-17-12 07:26 PM

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104. "RE: these turkeys were already dead because "
In response to Reply # 75


          

Can you please start posting like this more often?

You make sense here, and I know you are not dumb.

Btw, I agree with everything you stated.

  

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no_alias
Member since Jan 12th 2004
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Tue Apr-17-12 05:04 PM

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79. "as a sample-based beat maker"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I just want to say that at the end of the day, if it sounds good, it doesn't matter if it is sampled, "original", contains live instruments, etc. I've heard wack ass sampled shit as well as brilliant original material. Make the music sound good and all this who samples/who plays what is irrelevant. I don't understand why one has to be exclusively better than the other (outside of copyright laws and financial considerations) because to me, what's more important than playing instruments is having AN EAR for music! You may find well trained musicians who can't make a composition to save their lives, and a sample based beat maker who doesn't play an instrument but has an impeccable ear for melodies and putting beats together. If one can play and has an ear, that's great too!

Also, I don't really care how "progressive" one is in making the music... I'll admit I'm somewhat of a music snob, but if I ever get to the point where I ain't feeling some shit because it's from a sample and not "original", it must mean I'm no longer a fan of music. Besides, no idea is original, everyone has influences that guide them in some capacity. Furthermore, a lot of this "next level" futuristic sounding stuff doesn't impress me because it sounds like noise with no melody. To each his own I suppose...but does it REALLY matter the means in which the music was made as long as it's enjoyable?

Now...to stay on topic with this post, "looping" may have become obsolete (there are exceptions no doubt, but unless it's something rare or under the radar to the masses, it's not very common) and sampling in the mainstream is for the privileged few who can afford the clearances, and since I don't generally care for mainstream music, I can't really speak on it. However, I don't believe that sample-based producers died when sampling became "obsolete", they just became less in demand. It hasn't stopped Premier, Showbiz, Pete Rock, Large Pro, No I.D. or other producers out of the era when sampling was more prevalent to keeping doing it. I will admit that besides Primo I haven't heard much of the producer's new stuff that I named, but if the music is good, there will still be an audience for it. As far as Diamond D goes, I haven't been blown away by the newer output simply because it hasn't been as good as the stuff he was more famous for, not because he's "limited" as a sample based producer. If that were the case, I wouldn't like any of the new sample based music out there, which is definitely not the case. Again, it all comes back to "the ear". *end rant*

--------------
N/A (No Alias)

http://noalias.bandcamp.com
https://www.youtube.com/user/noalias80/videos?view=1
http://twitter.com/noalias
http://soundcloud.com/noalias80

  

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Ally Al 2003
Member since Oct 02nd 2003
10529 posts
Tue Apr-17-12 05:27 PM

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81. "to the people in this thread bemoaning hip hop producers, beat makers"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

loop diggers, thieves.... whatever the fuck you want to call them

if it's so easy and lacks talent

then tell you what, I'll give you an hour, go and top Nas Is Like, or Rebel Without a Pause, C.R.E.A.M., or T.R.O.Y. or (add whichever Hip Hop classic you see fit here)

Can't wait to hear what you come up with

*grabs popcorn, six pack and a chair*

.....
NEW PRINCE MIX : SHUT UP, ALREADY, JAM !!

http://allyal3.podOmatic.com

Check Mixcloud Also >> http://www.mixcloud.com/AllyAl3000/

  

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apex
Member since Aug 19th 2002
702 posts
Tue Apr-17-12 05:56 PM

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88. "exactly"
In response to Reply # 81


          

i asked some of the engineers at my job if we erased all the hip hop songs that had samples from history, what classics do we have left?

crickets.....

they couldn't name anything... i helped them out with The Message and a few others....but by and large, hip hop would be boring as fuck if all we used was a synthesizer....and that ain't no knock on synths cuz i love them too

  

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ABROCK33
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10555 posts
Tue Apr-17-12 05:45 PM

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82. "I dont know how this thread turned into a sampling vs non sampling"
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Apr-17-12 05:55 PM by ABROCK33

  

          

argument

my premise was that a lot of producers *cough* Diamond D, Bomb Squad etc...couldnt effectivly make the transtion when hip hop was in its transitory phase thats why they are obsolete

thats a fact. It cant be refuted that some producers couldnt keep their skillset up with the times. that isn't anything groundbreaking but no one wants to acknowledge it. instead the convo has been deflected to 2 sides

sampleing vs non sampling


this it isn't a personal attack against Diamond D, Bomb Squad or Beatminerz. They made some of the best music of their respective eras but regretfully fell behind the curve

this doesnt dimonish It takes a nation, stunts blunts and hip hop or Da Shinen but it does disntinguish these works from the later works of these artists.

the fact remains that the sample based producers that are still relavant and viable had to learn how to step their game up


if that meant learning to chop they did that, if it meant working with live instruments they did that

the point is they realized that just takeing raw loops over drums like they did in the early era of hip hop wasnt feasible financially and limited them artistically

I never said either non sample based music was "better". the term "better" is highly subjective and in this context I don't want to go there

personally I prefer sample based hip ho but thats neither here nor there

only a few of you even dared to address my original premise instead some of you only read the post title it seems and came to a conclusion

I don't know how we can have discusions if you cant stick the point

Im done

--------------------
"Good hair"-Uzi

1619 the 1st slaves are brought to American shores
thus begins the phrase “mine is better than yours?” (huh?)
forced to serve-too broke to by freedom
the systematic rape of African culture has begun
little time

  

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
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84. "the lesson is where music snobs and oldhead hiphoppers collide"
In response to Reply # 82
Tue Apr-17-12 05:48 PM by philpot

  

          

of course it devolved into this

i resisted entering the discussion as long as i could and ultimately failed

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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Ally Al 2003
Member since Oct 02nd 2003
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Tue Apr-17-12 05:52 PM

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85. "i got the premise of your original post, I have no issue with it at all"
In response to Reply # 82


  

          

my issue was with specific posters usual nonsense (ruining these boards for me personally)

I won't even name names because they get more than enough undeserved shine as it is

.....
NEW PRINCE MIX : SHUT UP, ALREADY, JAM !!

http://allyal3.podOmatic.com

Check Mixcloud Also >> http://www.mixcloud.com/AllyAl3000/

  

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ABROCK33
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92. "I agree and its frustrating"
In response to Reply # 85


  

          

if this is the state of hip hop than where do we go from here?

everybody is yelling at the top of their lungs only listening to their own voice

--------------------
"Good hair"-Uzi

1619 the 1st slaves are brought to American shores
thus begins the phrase “mine is better than yours?” (huh?)
forced to serve-too broke to by freedom
the systematic rape of African culture has begun
little time

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
20029 posts
Tue Apr-17-12 06:56 PM

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102. "it's because these nigaaz DONT KNOW HOW TO READ"
In response to Reply # 82


  

          

i was excited for this post too and assholes came in here and fucked it all up missing the damn point

FUCK!!!

  

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ABROCK33
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103. "u feel my pain"
In response to Reply # 102


  

          

lol

--------------------
"Good hair"-Uzi

1619 the 1st slaves are brought to American shores
thus begins the phrase “mine is better than yours?” (huh?)
forced to serve-too broke to by freedom
the systematic rape of African culture has begun
little time

  

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all stah
Member since Sep 03rd 2005
23470 posts
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105. "RE: it's because these nigaaz DONT KNOW HOW TO READ"
In response to Reply # 102


          

Naw, son, understand your context.

Living Tribunal of hip hop sees all ... this post had to be brought to justice.

Stay black, astral ..stay black.

lol

  

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all stah
Member since Sep 03rd 2005
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Tue Apr-17-12 05:55 PM

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87. "RE: Alot of producers died when sampling looping became obsolete"
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Apr-17-12 05:59 PM by all stah

          

You guys really need to study....

Boom bap and sampling were born out of the golden era of hip hop. It wasn't the original sound of hip hop. The original sound of hip hop came through electric beat( drum machines) and synthesizers. Mantornix, Afrika Bamabatta, Man Parrish,etc

Digging in the crates, mpcs, sp1200s, and the evolution of sampling came after that.

These electric beat artists are just doing what old school hip hop artist were doing.......

Niggas in here talking like sampling and boom bap gave birth to hip hop.......

Mutherfuckers did play instruments back in the day......Dilla, Madlib, and kanye, etc took it back to the essence, and this new electric beat genre came out of that.

Hip hop started off with a live instrumentation sound!

  

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Ally Al 2003
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91. "?"
In response to Reply # 87


  

          

the birth of hip hop IS digging in the crates and DJ's trying to out do each other with rare breaks found on old records, sorry dude but that's the beginning of hip hop not synthesizers and drum machines

.....
NEW PRINCE MIX : SHUT UP, ALREADY, JAM !!

http://allyal3.podOmatic.com

Check Mixcloud Also >> http://www.mixcloud.com/AllyAl3000/

  

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all stah
Member since Sep 03rd 2005
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Tue Apr-17-12 06:06 PM

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95. "RE: ?"
In response to Reply # 91
Tue Apr-17-12 06:13 PM by all stah

          

i'm talking about on record!...When hip hop records dropped.

Of course djs sought out albums ,played in the park, and had battles, but I'm talking about songs.

There was no boom bap back then, and there were no SP1200s or MPCs. Cats were using drum machines and synths to make tracks, and house music artists were doing the same thing.


Hip hop's sound back then was disco,eletric,and slightly new wavish.The digging in the crate came along in mid 80s, when hip hop became less electric and bass influenced, and the old school sound went to a more groove, soulful sound.

mantronix 85:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgD4x_SfyD8

eletric/new wavish/ freestyle ..and far from boom bap...that was in 83

cybetron:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGqiBFqWCTU&feature=fvwrel


That was hip hop in the old school era

  

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
21673 posts
Tue Apr-17-12 06:11 PM

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96. "rappers delight was a replayed loop"
In response to Reply # 95


  

          

ur losing this argument

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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all stah
Member since Sep 03rd 2005
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Tue Apr-17-12 06:41 PM

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101. "RE: rappers delight was a replayed loop"
In response to Reply # 96


          

SMH

  

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Ally Al 2003
Member since Oct 02nd 2003
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97. "nah"
In response to Reply # 95


  

          

on those records for the most part they were trying to recreate the sounds the DJ's made by getting bands to replay the Chic records they were using, or kraftwerk or babe ruth etc

the sounds evolved from the records the dj's played, that's the birth of hip hop

.....
NEW PRINCE MIX : SHUT UP, ALREADY, JAM !!

http://allyal3.podOmatic.com

Check Mixcloud Also >> http://www.mixcloud.com/AllyAl3000/

  

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
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94. "TWO TURNTABLES AND A MIC"
In response to Reply # 87


  

          

sounds like yall forgot!

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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My_SP1200_Broken_Again
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120. "its all comes from the dj and the break..."
In response to Reply # 94


  

          

...hip hop was hip hop before it was recorded in a studio and packaged for people to buy

  

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Wonderl33t
Member since Jul 11th 2002
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Tue Apr-17-12 05:57 PM

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89. "RE: Alot of producers died when sampling looping became obsolete"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


<--- ...watch out Mountain West?

  

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all stah
Member since Sep 03rd 2005
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Tue Apr-17-12 06:33 PM

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100. "RE: Alot of producers died when sampling looping became obsolete"
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Apr-17-12 06:38 PM by all stah

          

To me the greatest hip hop song ever made was a house/drum beat/ electric
sound:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tsfJn8YdwQ

I think cats who grew up off of hiphop in the golden era, don't realize that before the boom bap sound,artists like blondie, man parrish, afrika bambatta, mantronix, dna, arthur russell, liquid liquid, larry levan, Larry Heard, Frankie Knuckles and so many other acts were experimenting and creating sounds in the same space and time : NYC and Chicago.....which is why during that time hip hop, disco punk, and house music(trax) all had similar sounds, and could be played off of one another.

white lines is an example of that, because that was a disco punk track created by liquid liquid that GMF and the furious five flpped on...It was basically mel over a live instrumentation, because white lines has that feel

Hip hop wasn't one sound. Hip hop was so many sounds at once, and did't DEPEND ON OR NEED SAMPLING.

  

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AlBundy
Member since May 27th 2002
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Tue Apr-17-12 09:36 PM

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111. "sounds like ur saying it wasnt fully formed until the sampler"
In response to Reply # 100


  

          

agreed

-------------------------
“The other dude after me didn’t help my case. It was just like…crazy nigga factory going on.”
Dre makes no apologies for his own eccentricities. “I was young, and searching, trying to find myself,” he says. “Never did.”-- Andre B

  

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all stah
Member since Sep 03rd 2005
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113. "RE: sounds like ur saying it wasnt fully formed until the sampler"
In response to Reply # 111


          

i'll roll with that

  

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all stah
Member since Sep 03rd 2005
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Tue Apr-17-12 09:24 PM

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108. "RE: Alot of producers died when sampling looping became obsolete"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Nigga, we fucked your post up!



  

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I. Motion
Member since Jun 17th 2009
836 posts
Wed Apr-18-12 12:07 AM

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116. "Jesus you people REALLY need to put down the Kool Aide."
In response to Reply # 0


          



Boom Bap nor sampling is dead and they are both here to stay.

You radio friendly drones sucking off Billboard just have to get over it.

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
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Wed Apr-18-12 12:24 PM

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128. "JESUS FUCN CHRIST"
In response to Reply # 116


  

          

that's NOT WHAT HES SAYING

  

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My_SP1200_Broken_Again
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121. "the BEATNUTS"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

....havent really heard much at all from them since that "milk Me" album ...all their big records have been samples ...why would you want these guys playing keys on a synth?

  

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SP1200
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122. "Shawn J Period fell on his own sword."
In response to Reply # 121
Wed Apr-18-12 10:11 AM by SP1200

  

          

Got churchy and stopped sampling, never heard from him again.

http://i54.tinypic.com/2j51hj4.jpg

  

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Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
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Wed Apr-18-12 09:55 AM

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123. "they did get through the early '00s... but yeah MILK ME was the end"
In response to Reply # 121


  

          

>...why would you want these guys playing keys on a synth?

I know Juju and Psycho Les been doin' some other shit but I haven't heard it.

  

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WARGOD357
Member since Jan 21st 2006
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Wed Apr-18-12 10:08 AM

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125. "LES IS DOING AN ALBUM WITH"
In response to Reply # 123
Wed Apr-18-12 10:48 AM by WARGOD357

  

          

SADAT X CALLED THC

SADAT X AND HOMEBOY SANDMAN(LEAK OF THE ALBUM)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=jOT5yDKpBb4



You slap the nigga(DRAKE) five n he gon moisturize ya palms nahmean!-BIG GHOST NAHMEAN!

  

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SP1200
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127. "Les seems real ambitious right now..."
In response to Reply # 125


  

          

lovin that. He moved to L.A., started a record label and errthang.

http://i54.tinypic.com/2j51hj4.jpg

  

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mathmagic
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124. "DJ Premier "
In response to Reply # 0


          

Jordan!

  

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Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
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126. "no way... he distinguished himself when LOOPING became obsolete"
In response to Reply # 124


  

          

even though he was still looping in some cases afterward, he damn near built a sub-genre of hip-hop off what he had to do when "Bomb Squad" type production was no longer allowed without paying out the ass.

  

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