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Subject: "the analogy stands, and you are confusing the issues..." This topic is locked.
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zewari
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7113 posts
Sun Nov-21-04 10:09 AM

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15. "the analogy stands, and you are confusing the issues..."
In response to In response to 13


  

          

I believe you are mixing the issues and making an illogical argument. Here's why...

1. The analogy stands because nazi policies AND objectives are echoed in principle and deed by the Israeli state. You claimed the analogy failed because the Israelis have not committed attrocities at the scale that the nazis have, and thus the analogy failed... yet go on to argue that the above article's author is MORE comparable to the nazi party because of his mention of the Protocols of Zion. The irony of your willingness to extend every benefit of the doubt to the Israeli state in saying that they are not comparable to the nazis while willing to jump at labeling the Aztlan and the article's auther as being more "nazi like" is astounding. Furthermore, your comparison of the zionists with apartheid S. Africa as if apartheid S. Africa was incomparable to the nazis is even more mind numbing... and I think they relate your lack of understanding of apartheid S. Africa's brutality.

2. The context in which the Protocols were mentioned was such that its AUTHENTICITY was not argued. The author wrote that the behavior and actions of zionists in Spain and Mexico falls in-line with the Protocols. While I don't doubt the protocols were used to PERPETUATE the demonization of Jews collectively, its significance with respect to actually INCITING hatred against the Jews is highly debatable.

3. Your charge of anti-semitism remains to be unfounded. A Semite, by definition, describes only 5% of the Jews, 100% of the Arabs and Yemenis, and roughly 30% of the Ethiopians. For someone to be anti-semite, they would have to hate all these people. The author made references to zionist domination of the global economy and international politics. You can refute these arguments, but you cannot LOGICALLY cite them as evidence of anti-semitism. With regards to zionist domination, check the thread "BBC Exposes zionist control of the U.S." for more in-depth discussion. As for economic control... just look at who runs the privately owned Federal Reserve. At any rate, these belong in a separate discussion, but the addition of value judgment on zionist control of politics and economics as being evil or sinister could be looked at as being the "hateful" part... but then it becomes a matter of whether its a legitimate hate or not (i.e. if such domination was proven to be valid and that domination was proven to be used for evil). It therefore becomes subject to the validity of the purported Jewish domination. The mere fact that white supremecists use some of the same arguments does not invalidate the argument or make everyone else who poses the same arguments an anti-semite or a white supremecist. I mean, if you really believe it does, then you support the train of logic that would argue that because person A likes Oreos and is a Republican, person B must also be a republican because person B likes oreos also. That is fallacious reasoning.

4. With regards to nationalism, I would agree with you if you posed the argument that the name has been historically coopted to legitimize racially, ethnically and/or religiously exclusive movements- but the word itself strictly defines movements that revolve around a national identity, although its not uncommon to find nationalistic ferver coupled with ethnic, racial, and/or religious qualifiers. The moment this occurs, the movement stops being a true nationalist movement. Examples of nationalist movements would be the drive for Palestinian nationhood, the war for the unification of the Korean peninsula (both sides wanted it), the Eritrean liberation movement, etc. The immediate reaction of Americans after 9-11 could arguably be considered nationalist as well. The point is that nationalism revolves around an assumed national identity, not ethnic/religious/racial ones. The issue of nationalism isn't about how supporters of a movement identify themselves, its about how that movement compares with the actual definition. Nazis and KKK members didn't consider themselves as hateful bigots, but we all know they were. If you were to look at everything through the eyes of someone who believes in whatever you are examining, you will never get an objective interpretation.

>Blaming American global imperialism: economic, militarily
>and culturally, on the Zionists (read Jews) is a fucking
>unfortunate lie and is repeating a pattern of scapegoating
>that goes back centuries.

Even the Ha'aretz, which is an Israeli paper, reported that the Iraq war was orchestrated by a group of 25 neo-conservatives, most of whom are Jewish. Would you concede that zionist influences played a key role in the Iraqi genocide?

__________________________

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Germans force French city to take down anti-Nazi sign [View all] , zewari, Fri Nov-19-04 04:02 PM
 
Subject Author Message Date ID
RE: Germans force French city to take down anti-Nazi sign
Nov 20th 2004
1
lol
Nov 20th 2004
2
Ha!
Nov 20th 2004
3
seriously
Nov 22nd 2004
47
It's irony...a flip-side to the coin
Nov 20th 2004
4
Man, I think you're going about this the wrong way.
Nov 20th 2004
5
Zionists policies heavily mirror Nazi tactics
Nov 20th 2004
6
      You can do better than this.
Nov 20th 2004
7
           the Nazi comparison is completely valid
Nov 20th 2004
10
                no its not
Nov 21st 2004
13
               
                     RE: the analogy stands, and you are confusing the issues...
Nov 21st 2004
17
                          was that supposed to be a serious response?
Nov 21st 2004
18
                          No it wasn't, it was a gut reaction to your ignorance.
Nov 21st 2004
29
                               I'll respond after finals cause this is bullshit...
Nov 21st 2004
30
                                    Did you even go to the other sites?
Nov 21st 2004
31
                                         answer the question
Nov 21st 2004
32
                                              RE: answer the question
Nov 21st 2004
34
                                                   do better.
Nov 21st 2004
35
                                                        Do better?
Nov 21st 2004
38
                                                             you said that specific article was HATEFUL...
Nov 21st 2004
39
                          Co sign this guy
Nov 21st 2004
27
                RE: the Nazi comparison is completely valid
Mar 08th 2005
124
                     look @ this tough guy here.
Mar 08th 2005
126
How can I take you seriously
Nov 20th 2004
8
read response #10
Nov 20th 2004
11
      How does that make it any less offensive?
Nov 21st 2004
14
      you are reacting emotionally and illogically
Nov 21st 2004
16
           Read Mein Kampf
Nov 21st 2004
19
                incomparable.
Nov 21st 2004
20
                     How so?
Nov 21st 2004
21
                          read again.
Nov 21st 2004
23
                               RE: read again.
Nov 21st 2004
25
      what does anti-semtic mean?
Nov 21st 2004
41
           even more so...
Nov 22nd 2004
65
                Co-freakin'-sign
Nov 22nd 2004
66
                     yup i agree
Nov 26th 2004
82
this IS a legitimate comparison....
Nov 20th 2004
9
Picture and article about the anti-Sharon sign
Nov 20th 2004
12
Blacks force klan to take down burning cross.
Nov 21st 2004
22
read posts #10 and #15
Nov 21st 2004
24
      Im making a fair analogy
Nov 21st 2004
26
           Actually that analogy was gross
Nov 21st 2004
28
                I agree
Nov 22nd 2004
42
                     while i won't comment
Nov 22nd 2004
43
                          Neither does his
Nov 22nd 2004
44
                               point taken, however
Nov 22nd 2004
45
                                    I can make an analogy for anything
Nov 22nd 2004
46
                                         RE: I can make an analogy for anything
Nov 22nd 2004
48
                                         RE: I can make an analogy for anything
Nov 22nd 2004
59
                                              Yes it is
Nov 22nd 2004
67
                                                   That's it right there
Nov 29th 2004
91
                                         you are LYING
Nov 22nd 2004
50
Jewish professor accused of "anti-semitism" by Canadian Jewish Congress
Nov 21st 2004
33
RE: Jewish professor accused of "anti-semitism" by Canadian Jewish Congr
Nov 21st 2004
36
      triple major
Nov 21st 2004
37
           Respect, thats alot of work.
Nov 21st 2004
40
Ha'aretz: Israel-Nazi comparison is VALID
Nov 22nd 2004
49
you still put a misleading title on this post
Nov 22nd 2004
56
      is that supposed to be a serious comment??
Nov 22nd 2004
57
           the title was
Nov 22nd 2004
58
                its called symbollism.
Nov 22nd 2004
60
                     that's a bullshit defense
Nov 22nd 2004
61
                          I'm not defending anything cause there's nothing to defend
Nov 22nd 2004
62
                               because you didn't post it as an analogy
Nov 22nd 2004
63
                                    the analogy was freakin' OBVIOUS
Nov 22nd 2004
64
                                         I have 3 more
Nov 23rd 2004
68
                                              yeah... ok
Nov 23rd 2004
69
                                                   well it read kinda like bitterness
Nov 23rd 2004
70
Einstein & 27 prominent Jews compared zionists to Nazis
Nov 22nd 2004
51
Rabbi Rabbi Michael Dov Weissmandl asks 10 questions to zionists
Nov 22nd 2004
52
Collection of statements from Rabbis AGAINST zionism
Nov 22nd 2004
53
      Rabbi Mordechai Gifter: ZIONISTS ARE MURDERERS
Nov 22nd 2004
54
British Jewish MPs liken Gaza to Nazi Ghettos
Nov 22nd 2004
55
^up for the zionist appologists^
Nov 26th 2004
71
You gonna cry cos people disagree with you?
Nov 26th 2004
73
all you do is 'object' cause you can't validate your argument.
Nov 26th 2004
76
      I posted some sources for you to ignore
Nov 26th 2004
77
           on what planet?
Nov 26th 2004
78
                On planet bullshit
Nov 26th 2004
80
                     that's a stupid objective.
Nov 29th 2004
86
                          Sure it was
Nov 29th 2004
89
                               FACT is NOT OBJECTIVE
Nov 29th 2004
90
                                    So you believe in universal truth?
Nov 29th 2004
92
                                         FACTS are not subject to interpretation
Dec 08th 2004
104
                                              Its not indisputable though
Dec 14th 2004
108
                                                   1+1=2
Dec 14th 2004
110
                                                        Numbers are symbols
Dec 15th 2004
112
RE: ^up for the zionist appologists^
Nov 26th 2004
74
      the charge of anti-semiticism makes NO sense
Nov 26th 2004
75
           RE: the charge of anti-semiticism makes NO sense
Nov 26th 2004
79
                RE: the charge of anti-semiticism makes NO sense
Nov 29th 2004
87
up
Nov 26th 2004
72
so, you're anti semetic?
Nov 26th 2004
81
nope, i AM semitic
Nov 27th 2004
85
you sound like a damn nazi
Nov 27th 2004
83
you're anti-semitic
Nov 27th 2004
84
Israeli TV EXPOSED Zionists' EUGENICS Campaign
Nov 29th 2004
88
Jerusalem Post: Over 50% of Germans equate IDF w/ Nazi army
Dec 08th 2004
93
Who are they to talk?
Dec 08th 2004
95
      people w/ first hand experience of Nazi tactics
Dec 08th 2004
97
           Clearly not
Dec 08th 2004
98
                so only people who've been to israel can understand...
Dec 08th 2004
100
                     Nope
Dec 08th 2004
102
Israeli soldiers expose maniacal belligerence towards defenseless Palest
Dec 08th 2004
94
Soldiers are belligerent?
Dec 08th 2004
96
      you represent rejectionism @ its worst
Dec 08th 2004
99
           What am I rejecting
Dec 08th 2004
101
                you're rejecting the criminality of zionism
Dec 08th 2004
103
                     RE: you're rejecting the criminality of zionism
Dec 09th 2004
105
                          you seriously place Palestinian terrorism on par with Israeli terrorism?
Dec 14th 2004
106
                               Sigh
Dec 14th 2004
107
                                    this is exactly why you're a pathetic rejectionist.
Dec 14th 2004
109
                                         BOO
Dec 15th 2004
111
                                              you're either delusional, in denial, or willingly rejecting FACTS.
Dec 21st 2004
113
                                                   I question your "sources"
Dec 28th 2004
115
                                                        you are thoroughly disgusting
Dec 28th 2004
116
                                                             Yup, that solved it
Dec 29th 2004
117
UN Resolution 3379 identified zionism as a form of racism
Dec 21st 2004
114
request to archive
Jan 20th 2005
118
anti-NAZI is NAZI
Jan 22nd 2005
119
hhhwaaaaaaaatt??? (c) Lil' John
Jan 22nd 2005
120
      it was creative license
Mar 08th 2005
123
Israeli measures to silence the voices of truth
Feb 11th 2005
121
London's Mayor speaks out
Mar 08th 2005
122
RE: London's Mayor speaks out
Mar 08th 2005
125
crack really is a helluva drug
Mar 08th 2005
127
Wonderful, a corrupt turncoat hypocrite speaks out.
Mar 15th 2005
128

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