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Subject: "NBA MVP check..." Previous topic | Next topic
ThaTruth
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93725 posts
Tue Apr-27-21 10:32 AM

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"Poll question: NBA MVP check..."


          

personally I think Steph's teams' record keeps him out of any serious MVP convo's despite his recent hot streak but some disagree...

I feel like with the games Embiid has missed the award is Jokic's to lose. Will he be the first MVP drafted in the 2nd round?

Giannis team's record is slightly down but he's basically putting if the same numbers he did the last 2 years when he won the award...

cases can be made for almost any of the Brooklyn big 3 but they can't stay on the court...

Poll result (17 votes)
Jokic (5 votes)Vote
Embiid (1 votes)Vote
Giannis (0 votes)Vote
Harden (0 votes)Vote
Steph(lol) (9 votes)Vote
somebody else? - post it below (2 votes)Vote

  

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
Should vs Will...
Apr 27th 2021
1
Actually, I don’t think white has anything
Apr 27th 2021
2
      RE: Actually, I don’t think white has anything
Apr 28th 2021
11
Would take something *very* weird for it not to be Jokic.
Apr 27th 2021
3
I'd love to see this.
Apr 27th 2021
4
      lol me too, I can't even lie.
Apr 27th 2021
5
Jokic pretty much the last man standing
Apr 27th 2021
6
Julius Randle right now
Apr 27th 2021
7
he'll get votes....but its Joker's to win.
Apr 28th 2021
10
It’s Jokic’s and I don’t see that changing in the next couple week...
Apr 28th 2021
8
I would love for CP3 to win it.
Apr 28th 2021
9
Steph
May 17th 2021
12
Nah CP3 is actually a better candidate
May 17th 2021
13
Chris Paul isnt even the MVP of his own team
May 17th 2021
17
      Lol the same team that hadn't made the playoff in 11 years
May 17th 2021
23
           Literally their entire starting five besides Booker?
May 17th 2021
27
           warriors increased their winning percentage more
May 17th 2021
32
dame in there too. and Russ is unbelievable. a LOT of dudes balled
May 17th 2021
35
is there still time to edit
May 17th 2021
14
Steph is not a serious MVP candidate
May 17th 2021
15
      Oh I think Jokic should get it
May 17th 2021
16
      RE: Oh I think Jokic should get it
May 17th 2021
18
      So this was basically a Steph hate post for you?
May 17th 2021
19
           no, a lot of people felt like he was MVP, I didn't, its an opinion poll
May 17th 2021
20
                You called the NBA leading scorer not a serious candidate
May 17th 2021
21
                     his team is in 8th place
May 17th 2021
26
                          His team is in eight place, after having the leagues worst record.
May 17th 2021
28
                               its the league MVP, not a team MVP, historically it has almost always......
May 17th 2021
29
I have a hard time considering Embiid bc of games played
May 17th 2021
22
Gotta be Joker. Steph #2
May 17th 2021
24
I gotta think awards go:
May 17th 2021
25
Oh and COTY is obviously Monty Williams
May 17th 2021
30
my awards...:
May 17th 2021
31
steph made the playoffs with his smush/kwame team but
May 17th 2021
33
This is where I'm at
May 18th 2021
36
steph. no lol. he been doing unreasonable things all season.
May 17th 2021
34
To the Jokic skeptics, let's contextualize:
May 19th 2021
37
Jokic will win but its Steph to me.
May 19th 2021
38
Joker got it
Jun 08th 2021
39
Of course he did.
Jun 08th 2021
40
Are Jokic and Nash the only MVP's that weren't top 5 players?
Jun 09th 2021
41
Kobe & Karl Malone went 13th. Nash & Giannis went 15th. n/m
Jun 09th 2021
42
I’m not talking about where they were drafted.
Jun 09th 2021
43
Nah. There have been a good number.
Jun 09th 2021
44
Sometimes an MVP is the thing that vaults people into that discussion
Jun 09th 2021
45
      For sure. Guys like Steph and Giannis are great examples of this.
Jun 09th 2021
46
      when Steph was unanimous MVP he wasn't considered a top 5 player?
Jun 09th 2021
48
           ... re-read what I said.
Jun 09th 2021
49
           so do you think this MVP puts Jokic in the top 5? do you ever see him...
Jun 09th 2021
50
                A couple of things:
Jun 09th 2021
60
                     RE: A couple of things:
Jun 10th 2021
65
           Steph won his unanimous MVP as his 2nd one.
Jun 09th 2021
51
                who were the top 5 NBA players in 2016?
Jun 09th 2021
52
                     Bron, KD, AD, Harden, Steph, IMO
Jun 09th 2021
53
                          so I was right? FYI these were the All-NBA teams in 2016:
Jun 09th 2021
54
                               I guess Marc Gasol was top 5 the year before then.
Jun 09th 2021
55
                                    We're not talking about Marc Gasol, we're talking about Steph in 2016...
Jun 09th 2021
56
                                         Why 2016 is my question
Jun 09th 2021
57
                                              The whole thing is baffling.
Jun 09th 2021
58
                                              I know you're trying to save your boy Ryan but he's gotta walk this shit...
Jun 09th 2021
61
                                              Dude.
Jun 09th 2021
63
                                              I just can’t tell what you don’t understand.
Jun 10th 2021
64
                                                   RE: I just can’t tell what you don’t understand.
Jun 10th 2021
73
                                                        So you replied to my post with a follow-up about a different season.
Jun 10th 2021
78
                                              IKR? the debate then was if Steph was better than Bron at that point
Jun 10th 2021
71
                                                   I specifically asked about the 2015-2016 season.
Jun 10th 2021
74
                                              posts #48 & #51. n.m
Jun 09th 2021
59
                                              So…you bring up a guy who won an MVP already
Jun 09th 2021
62
                                              Explain your response in post #51.
Jun 10th 2021
66
                                                   So, I feel like it’s just phrasing, here…
Jun 10th 2021
67
                                                   why is everyone COPPING PLEAS for this man?
Jun 10th 2021
68
                                                        I got no reason to cop pleas for anyone…
Jun 10th 2021
69
                                                   Dst got it.
Jun 10th 2021
70
                                                        If you just could've said you "misspoke" or you LIED you would've saved....
Jun 10th 2021
72
                                                             Ok. Feel better?
Jun 10th 2021
75
                                                                  did I miss the post where you actually said you LIED?
Jun 10th 2021
76
                                                                       You must have. Because I didn’t, you weirdo.
Jun 10th 2021
77
                                                                            Unless you're claiming you were hacked there's no way around it.
Jun 10th 2021
79
                                                                                 Let me break it down for you.
Jun 10th 2021
83
                                                                                      I asked you a specific question. You said “no”. End of story.
Jun 10th 2021
84
      RE: Sometimes an MVP is the thing that vaults people into that discussio...
Jun 09th 2021
47
Same suspects.
Jun 10th 2021
80
Meanwhile actual Bulls’ teammates capping on each other lol
Jun 10th 2021
81
      Lol
Jun 10th 2021
82
maybe CP3 should've finished higher that 5th in the voting
Jun 14th 2021
85

ShawndmeSlanted
Member since Oct 30th 2004
42893 posts
Tue Apr-27-21 10:41 AM

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1. "Should vs Will..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Will is Jokic.

I posted this somewhere else, but if you have a close race for most any award in sports that is voted on by people (fans 0r media), the white athlete or white ppls favorite will often win because of bias and racism.

Jokic has had a hell of a season and deserves it
- Stats check
- Fewest missed games check
- Den record check (slow start hurt him early but even though their 4th seed now he has the same amount of wins basically as our Eastern favorites)

-- AND he will get a being white boost when it comes tie to vote. If I had money to put on who will win, it goes to Jokic.

---
"though time has passed, im still the future" (c) black thought

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
5532 posts
Tue Apr-27-21 10:54 AM

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2. "Actually, I don’t think white has anything "
In response to Reply # 1
Tue Apr-27-21 10:55 AM by allStah

          

to do with it in this situation.

He legitimately deserves it because he has been the most consistent.
He has not missed any games. He has not had any load management,
and he has continued to produce while missing Murray and Barton.

Plus a center hasn’t won it in quite some time, so he will have that
going for him.

He hands down the MVP.

HIS NAME IS MASON MOUNT
Bulls | Bears | White Sox | Yankees | Notre Dame | Illinois | Chelsea | Real Madrid

  

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ShawndmeSlanted
Member since Oct 30th 2004
42893 posts
Wed Apr-28-21 12:52 PM

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11. "RE: Actually, I don’t think white has anything "
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

Thats not what Im saying. I wrote that he deserves it this year.
But in all these cases. lets assume Embiid was not injured --it'd be a much closer race and if I had money to place on the race, Id almost always take the white guy in a close race where I have to correctly guess the winner whether he deserves it or not.

>to do with it in this situation.
>
>He legitimately deserves it because he has been the most
>consistent.
>He has not missed any games. He has not had any load
>management,
>and he has continued to produce while missing Murray and
>Barton.
>
>Plus a center hasn’t won it in quite some time, so he will
>have that
>going for him.
>
>He hands down the MVP.

---
"though time has passed, im still the future" (c) black thought

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
84389 posts
Tue Apr-27-21 12:34 PM

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3. "Would take something *very* weird for it not to be Jokic."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Like, it'd take someone like Giannis going on an undefeated streak to end the season while dropping 30-10-8. Or Steph going on an undefeated streak to end the season while dropping 45 PPG.

Or, if we wanted the ultimate Make Em Mad situation, if Denver goes on a losing streak, Dallas goes undefeated to end the season and gets a Top 4 seed? Then Luka could get it and the whole fucking internet would absolutely explode.

But literally all of those situations are insanely unlikely. It's Jokic. 98% confidence.

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

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Cenario
Member since Aug 24th 2005
57340 posts
Tue Apr-27-21 12:55 PM

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4. "I'd love to see this."
In response to Reply # 3


  

          


>
>Or, if we wanted the ultimate Make Em Mad situation, if Denver
>goes on a losing streak, Dallas goes undefeated to end the
>season and gets a Top 4 seed? Then Luka could get it and the
>whole fucking internet would absolutely explode.
>

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
84389 posts
Tue Apr-27-21 12:55 PM

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5. "lol me too, I can't even lie."
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

We'd achieve Peak Discourse.

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
81597 posts
Tue Apr-27-21 01:08 PM

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6. "Jokic pretty much the last man standing"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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blackfoot_female
Member since Jul 15th 2002
915 posts
Tue Apr-27-21 07:24 PM

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7. "Julius Randle right now"
In response to Reply # 0


          

.

  

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Castro
Charter member
49583 posts
Wed Apr-28-21 10:02 AM

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10. "he'll get votes....but its Joker's to win."
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

------------------
One Hundred.

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
11629 posts
Wed Apr-28-21 12:24 AM

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8. "It’s Jokic’s and I don’t see that changing in the next couple week..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

The other candidates all have something working against them.

Steph is playing out of his mind, but that team’s record sinks his chances. It ain’t like baseball where you can win MVP even if you’re on a shitty team.

Embiid was closest, but injuries have come back and the Sixers aren’t looking as strong as they were a few weeks ago.

Giannis was already at a disadvantage. He won 2 in a row so there’s a feeling of “we’ve sent it all before” with him, whether that’s fair or not.

Harden has been amazing but he’s missed games and was traded onto a team that had a good shot at making the finals without him. Given a full season he would have a strong case, but it’s tough to care about this dude’s regular season stats at this point. Maybe that’s unfair, but that has to be in the back of voters’ minds.

  

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Hitokiri
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Wed Apr-28-21 08:49 AM

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9. "I would love for CP3 to win it."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

He won't. But it would be amazing if he did.

--
"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

"There is only one god and his name is death. And there is only one thing we say to death: not today."

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
15613 posts
Mon May-17-21 06:38 AM

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12. "Steph"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Said before the season started...if GSW make the playoffs, Steph is the MVP
Can’t believe he did it w/o Wiseman and then Oubre

I don’t have a problem with whoever wins it
Widest field I can remember
Donovan
CP3
Joker
Steph
Embiid
Harden
Randle
Russy...all had MVP caliber seasons
Salute to whoever wins

I’d vote for Steph.

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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ThaTruth
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93725 posts
Mon May-17-21 06:41 AM

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13. "Nah CP3 is actually a better candidate"
In response to Reply # 12


          

________________________________________
"Stay out the dark, cause if I catch you when the sun is down..."
https://youtu.be/eaaTxVRG06c?t=89

  

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Sofian_Hadi
Member since Jan 03rd 2003
3455 posts
Mon May-17-21 09:33 AM

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17. "Chris Paul isnt even the MVP of his own team"
In response to Reply # 13
Mon May-17-21 09:57 AM by Sofian_Hadi

          

.

---------------------------------------

"The world is before you and you need not take it or leave it as it was when you came in." - James Baldwin

  

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Hitokiri
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Mon May-17-21 10:57 AM

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23. "Lol the same team that hadn't made the playoff in 11 years"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

prior to his arrival?
What changed between last year's 10th place finish and this years 2nd?
I wonder.

--
"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

"There is only one god and his name is death. And there is only one thing we say to death: not today."

  

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Sofian_Hadi
Member since Jan 03rd 2003
3455 posts
Mon May-17-21 12:14 PM

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27. "Literally their entire starting five besides Booker?"
In response to Reply # 23
Mon May-17-21 12:18 PM by Sofian_Hadi

          

Devin Booker is still the most important player on that team. Adding Chris Paul didnt change that fact. Take Devin Booker away and that team doesnt make the playoffs with just Chris Pauls 16 pts and 8 assists.

---------------------------------------

"The world is before you and you need not take it or leave it as it was when you came in." - James Baldwin

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
12057 posts
Mon May-17-21 04:16 PM

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32. "warriors increased their winning percentage more"
In response to Reply # 23
Mon May-17-21 04:20 PM by Reeq

  

          

with a worse roster than the suns.

obviously steph also had a much bigger load to lift.

------

  

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poetx
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Mon May-17-21 08:25 PM

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35. "dame in there too. and Russ is unbelievable. a LOT of dudes balled"
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

out this year.

i'm saying steph, although that's unlikely. jokic balled tf out all year. i got no problem at all w/ him getting it.


peace & blessings,

x.

www.twitter.com/poetx

=========================================
I'm an advocate for working smarter, not harder. If you just
focus on working hard you end up making someone else rich and
not having much to show for it. (c) mad

  

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Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
30731 posts
Mon May-17-21 08:02 AM

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14. "is there still time to edit"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

_______________________________________________
"Mindless populism embodied by Trump and Sanders are like a malignant wart on our body politic"

  

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ThaTruth
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93725 posts
Mon May-17-21 08:31 AM

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15. "Steph is not a serious MVP candidate"
In response to Reply # 14


          

________________________________________
"Stay out the dark, cause if I catch you when the sun is down..."
https://youtu.be/eaaTxVRG06c?t=89

  

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Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
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Mon May-17-21 08:53 AM

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16. "Oh I think Jokic should get it "
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

Steph in the convo isn’t laughable is all I’m saying

_______________________________________________
"Mindless populism embodied by Trump and Sanders are like a malignant wart on our body politic"

  

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ThaTruth
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Mon May-17-21 09:35 AM

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18. "RE: Oh I think Jokic should get it "
In response to Reply # 16


          

>Steph in the convo isn’t laughable is all I’m saying

on a 8th place team it is, its not a stats award, CP3 is more deserving than Steph

________________________________________
"Stay out the dark, cause if I catch you when the sun is down..."
https://youtu.be/eaaTxVRG06c?t=89

  

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Sofian_Hadi
Member since Jan 03rd 2003
3455 posts
Mon May-17-21 09:36 AM

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19. "So this was basically a Steph hate post for you?"
In response to Reply # 15


          

---------------------------------------

"The world is before you and you need not take it or leave it as it was when you came in." - James Baldwin

  

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ThaTruth
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Mon May-17-21 09:59 AM

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20. "no, a lot of people felt like he was MVP, I didn't, its an opinion poll"
In response to Reply # 19


          

________________________________________
"Stay out the dark, cause if I catch you when the sun is down..."
https://youtu.be/eaaTxVRG06c?t=89

  

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Sofian_Hadi
Member since Jan 03rd 2003
3455 posts
Mon May-17-21 10:13 AM

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21. "You called the NBA leading scorer not a serious candidate"
In response to Reply # 20


          

That makes your entire post obsolete

---------------------------------------

"The world is before you and you need not take it or leave it as it was when you came in." - James Baldwin

  

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ThaTruth
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Mon May-17-21 12:12 PM

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26. "his team is in 8th place"
In response to Reply # 21


          

________________________________________
"Stay out the dark, cause if I catch you when the sun is down..."
https://youtu.be/eaaTxVRG06c?t=89

  

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Sofian_Hadi
Member since Jan 03rd 2003
3455 posts
Mon May-17-21 12:15 PM

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28. "His team is in eight place, after having the leagues worst record. "
In response to Reply # 26


          

And still minus Klay Thompson. Youre a Steph Curry hater, its obvious.

---------------------------------------

"The world is before you and you need not take it or leave it as it was when you came in." - James Baldwin

  

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ThaTruth
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Mon May-17-21 12:41 PM

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29. "its the league MVP, not a team MVP, historically it has almost always......"
In response to Reply # 28


          

went to the best player on the best or one of the best teams in the league. And yes Russ got it on a 6th seed for a statistical accomplishment that hadn't happened in 50 years but that was an exception. Jokic and Embiid are the main competitors this season.

>And still minus Klay Thompson. Youre a Steph Curry hater, its
>obvious.

________________________________________
"Stay out the dark, cause if I catch you when the sun is down..."
https://youtu.be/eaaTxVRG06c?t=89

  

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Cenario
Member since Aug 24th 2005
57340 posts
Mon May-17-21 10:49 AM

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22. "I have a hard time considering Embiid bc of games played"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Harden was a thought if it wasn't for this injury stretch.

Jokic, Giannis 1 and 2 are no brainers...if i had to vote for 5 i'd go

Jokic
Giannis
Luka
Lillard
Embiid

Hon Mention: Curry had an amazing year but so did the other guys i listed with better team records.

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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Castro
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Mon May-17-21 11:04 AM

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24. "Gotta be Joker. Steph #2"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

------------------
One Hundred.

  

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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
41355 posts
Mon May-17-21 11:16 AM

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25. "I gotta think awards go:"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

MVP - Jokic
6MOY - Joe Ingles or Jordan Clarkson (early returns are for Jingles)
MIP - Randle
DPOY - Probably Gobert, right?
ROY - Could see this being a co-ROY but it should be Ant's.

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
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30. "Oh and COTY is obviously Monty Williams"
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

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ThaTruth
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31. "my awards...:"
In response to Reply # 25
Mon May-17-21 02:59 PM by ThaTruth

          

MVP - Jokic, I love what Embiid did this year but Jokic played in all 72 games, I think Embiid is the better overall player but Jokic had the better season
6MOY - Jordan Clarkson - what he did for that team this year was impressive
MIP - Michael Porter Jr. - dude more than doubled his ppg average
DPOY - Simmons - he's a monster and in this era of switching everything on defense a guy that can legitimately guard 1 through 5
ROY - Anthony Edwards - he played more and low-key the Hornets got worse when he came back
COTY - Monty Williams

________________________________________
"Stay out the dark, cause if I catch you when the sun is down..."
https://youtu.be/eaaTxVRG06c?t=89

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Mon May-17-21 04:18 PM

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33. "steph made the playoffs with his smush/kwame team but"
In response to Reply # 0
Mon May-17-21 04:20 PM by Reeq

  

          

its hard to argue with jokic consistently being at the top of the pile from the beginning of the year to the end.

basically it was his to lose for a while and nobody really dethroned him. his case actually got strengthened when murray went down and they didnt really miss a beat.

------

  

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obsidianchrysalis
Member since Jan 29th 2003
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Tue May-18-21 01:27 AM

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36. "This is where I'm at"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

DEN had every excuse to fall back and they remained steady throughout, mostly because Jokic's play didn't fall off.

Based on his stats, Jokic is the best candidate but his game is so unsexy. I was watching a highlights video package on him on YouTube.

The narrator would praise his playmaking ability despite having a Time of Possession rating much lower than players with his assists numbers.

He made a lot of nice passes, but to be honest the video was kind of boring relative to watching Steph or Dame rain threes from underneath their own basket. Or viewing Embiid clown fools in the post.

According to the advanced numbers he's having one of the best offensive seasons in league HISTORY. But I can't say that he has a series of games like Steph did last month or even the narrative of Embiid finally breaking through and realizing his potential.

He's just not an MVP in the sense of physical or athletic dominance like we've seen, maybe ever.

<--- Me when my head hits the pillow

  

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poetx
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34. "steph. no lol. he been doing unreasonable things all season. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

no disrespect to the other dudes.

ain't nobody out there getting double and triple teamed at halfcourt, getting box and 1'd and all kindsa shit. whose team's next best player don't average double figure points per game.


peace & blessings,

x.

www.twitter.com/poetx

=========================================
I'm an advocate for working smarter, not harder. If you just
focus on working hard you end up making someone else rich and
not having much to show for it. (c) mad

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Wed May-19-21 11:27 AM

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37. "To the Jokic skeptics, let's contextualize: "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Jokic just had a better true shooting percentage than Dirk ever did. Think about that for a second. And it wasn't that close either.

Dirk's MVP season, he put up a true shooting percentage of 60.5%, an offensive win share of 11.8 (led the NBA), and an offensive BPM of 7.2 (led the NBA). Jokic had a true shooting percentage of 64.7% (!) while shooting over an additional 3 per game (!!), he had offensive win share of 12.2 (led the NBA), and an offensive BPM of 9.2 (led the NBA). And just to be clear, I'm not saying Jokic is better than Dirk or can do everything Dirk did... but this regular season, he shot at a superior efficiency to the best shooting big man in NBA history.

Then add to that that Jokic is the best passing pure big man... maybe ever? Most of the best passing bigs of all time did their damage nearly entirely from the paint. Jokic has elite passing from the paint, from the high post, from outside the key, on fast breaks... dude is a top ten passer in the NBA today, which is *bonkers* for a center.

So this season, Jokic basically answered the question "what if prime Dirk Nowitzki also had Lebron's passing?" Which sounds like hyperbole... unless you checked the stats or watched him play.

They also went 18-7 without Murray at the end. They won 65.2% of their games total... and they won 72% of their games down the stretch without their best wing scorer and playmaker. THEY LOST JAMAL MURRAY AND SOMEHOW THEIR RECORD GOT BETTER.

Steph would 100% be my second place vote. What he did this year was incredible. I get that it's weird that a guy who's been MVP had maybe his best individual season to date this year but then doesn't win MVP again. He also has great narrative appeal, and he has the flashier, sexier moments. Jokic is only sexy to the efficiency crowd, his highlights so rarely get retweeted. Curry is sexy to everyone, because he's one of the most fun, appealing, and fucking delightful players to ever step on the basketball court.

... but the numbers don't lie. The stats don't lie. The eyes don't lie. Jokic played the entire season at an elite level, put up prime Dirk level shooting and elite passing for an entire season, lost his primary wing weapon for a third of the season, but still continued running the offense masterfully and carrying his team to the 3 seed in the fucking West.

I just don't know how you argue against that with anything other than "yeah, but I like Steph more and the story is sexy." Which is fair, I reckon, since MVP doesn't have a clear set of requirements... but yeah, it's gonna be Jokic. And probably in a landslide.

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For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
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38. "Jokic will win but its Steph to me."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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ThaTruth
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39. "Joker got it"
In response to Reply # 0


          

________________________________________
"Stay out the dark, cause if I catch you when the sun is down..."
https://youtu.be/eaaTxVRG06c?t=89

  

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allStah
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40. "Of course he did. "
In response to Reply # 39


          

From beginning to end, he dominated.

HIS NAME IS MASON MOUNT
Bulls | Bears | White Sox | Yankees | Notre Dame | Illinois | Chelsea | Real Madrid

  

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ThaTruth
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41. "Are Jokic and Nash the only MVP's that weren't top 5 players?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

________________________________________
"Stay out the dark, cause if I catch you when the sun is down..."
https://youtu.be/eaaTxVRG06c?t=89

  

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Marbles
Member since Oct 19th 2004
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42. "Kobe & Karl Malone went 13th. Nash & Giannis went 15th. n/m"
In response to Reply # 41


  

          

  

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ThaTruth
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43. " I’m not talking about where they were drafted."
In response to Reply # 42


          

________________________________________
"Stay out the dark, cause if I catch you when the sun is down..."
https://youtu.be/eaaTxVRG06c?t=89

  

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Frank Longo
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44. "Nah. There have been a good number."
In response to Reply # 41


  

          

After all, it rewards the best season, not the best overall player.

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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
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45. "Sometimes an MVP is the thing that vaults people into that discussion"
In response to Reply # 41


  

          

Don't think Nash was ever top 5. Jokic is debatable. Was Dirk top 5 getting his MVP? Westbrook definitely was not. Hell, was Rose?

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

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Frank Longo
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46. "For sure. Guys like Steph and Giannis are great examples of this."
In response to Reply # 45


  

          

I don't think, going into their first MVP years, anyone would've said they're a Top 5 lock-- more hovering around Top 10. But once you have an MVP type season, and you make a conference finals (or go further), you get a pretty serious bump in your status.

Like, if Jokic is a Top 3 candidate for MVP again next season too, or if he carries this team to the Finals this year on his back somehow? It's gonna be really goddamn hard to keep him out of the Top 5 going forward.

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

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ThaTruth
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48. "when Steph was unanimous MVP he wasn't considered a top 5 player?"
In response to Reply # 46


          

when Giannis was back to back MVP and DPOY he wasn't top 5?

>I don't think, going into their first MVP years, anyone
>would've said they're a Top 5 lock-- more hovering around Top
>10. But once you have an MVP type season, and you make a
>conference finals (or go further), you get a pretty serious
>bump in your status.
>
>Like, if Jokic is a Top 3 candidate for MVP again next season
>too, or if he carries this team to the Finals this year on his
>back somehow? It's gonna be really goddamn hard to keep him
>out of the Top 5 going forward.

I agree if Jokic carries his team to the Finals he will force his way into the top 5 but I don't know if he get's past Ayton and Gobert.

________________________________________
"Stay out the dark, cause if I catch you when the sun is down..."
https://youtu.be/eaaTxVRG06c?t=89

  

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Frank Longo
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49. "... re-read what I said. "
In response to Reply # 48
Wed Jun-09-21 12:56 PM by Frank Longo

  

          

>>I don't think, going into their first MVP years, anyone
>>would've said they're a Top 5 lock-- more hovering around
>Top
>>10. But once you have an MVP type season, and you make a
>>conference finals (or go further), you get a pretty serious
>>bump in your status.

When you said, "when Steph was unanimous MVP he wasn't considered a top 5 player? when Giannis was back to back MVP and DPOY he wasn't top 5?"... do you not see how that's absolutely not what I said above? They weren't top 5 going into their *first* MVP seasons. Then, winning an MVP and having a strong playoff season helped secure them into the Top 5.

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

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ThaTruth
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50. "so do you think this MVP puts Jokic in the top 5? do you ever see him..."
In response to Reply # 49


          

getting there?

For a lot of people he's only MVP because he stayed healthy all year but Embiid is considered a better all-around player.

________________________________________
"Stay out the dark, cause if I catch you when the sun is down..."
https://youtu.be/eaaTxVRG06c?t=89

  

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Frank Longo
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Wed Jun-09-21 10:53 PM

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60. "A couple of things:"
In response to Reply # 50


  

          

1. I don’t know if he’s Top 5 just due to the MVP, because, like Nash, of his defensive deficiencies and because of how hard the league leans on guys who create from the perimeter for both themselves and others. I think he’s fairly indisputable Top 5 offensive players in the league, so he’s almost certainly Top 10. But like I said elsewhere, if he can be a Top 3 MVP candidate again next year— or if he can somehow will this short handed Nuggets team to the WCF? Then I think it’s gonna be increasingly hard to leave him out— especially considering how a couple of the consensus Top 5 guys are getting up there in age.

2. Even if Embiid had played a full season, Jokic had a historically good offensive season for a big man. I think it’d have easily been Jokic regardless. That said, I agree that Embiid’s two way impact means I’d theoretically start a team with him over Jokic… that said again, it’s hard to ignore Embiid’s health history compared to Jokic’s. While Jokic’s lack of athleticism certainly caps his upside to some extent (a funny thing to say, given that he just won NBA MVP), it also means his game is less reliant on movement, so he’s less likely to get hurt and he’s less likely to be ineffective the older he gets. He could genuinely play like this for damn near another decade. It’s hard to ignore the impact on the floor an elite passing and elite shooting big like Jokic has. So I don’t know. That’s a tough call, and I think they’re way closer overall than people like to admit.

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ThaTruth
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65. "RE: A couple of things:"
In response to Reply # 60


          

>1. I don’t know if he’s Top 5 just due to the MVP,
>because, like Nash, of his defensive deficiencies and because
>of how hard the league leans on guys who create from the
>perimeter for both themselves and others. I think he’s
>fairly indisputable Top 5 offensive players in the league, so
>he’s almost certainly Top 10. But like I said elsewhere, if
>he can be a Top 3 MVP candidate again next year— or if he
>can somehow will this short handed Nuggets team to the WCF?
>Then I think it’s gonna be increasingly hard to leave him
>out— especially considering how a couple of the consensus
>Top 5 guys are getting up there in age.
>
>2. Even if Embiid had played a full season, Jokic had a
>historically good offensive season for a big man. I think
>it’d have easily been Jokic regardless. That said, I agree
>that Embiid’s two way impact means I’d theoretically start
>a team with him over Jokic… that said again, it’s hard to
>ignore Embiid’s health history compared to Jokic’s. While
>Jokic’s lack of athleticism certainly caps his upside to
>some extent (a funny thing to say, given that he just won NBA
>MVP), it also means his game is less reliant on movement, so
>he’s less likely to get hurt and he’s less likely to be
>ineffective the older he gets. He could genuinely play like
>this for damn near another decade. It’s hard to ignore the
>impact on the floor an elite passing and elite shooting big
>like Jokic has. So I don’t know. That’s a tough call, and
>I think they’re way closer overall than people like to
>admit.

Nobody ever said it wasn't close. It was close all year. Embiid missed too many games.

________________________________________
"Stay out the dark, cause if I catch you when the sun is down..."
https://youtu.be/eaaTxVRG06c?t=89

  

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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
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51. "Steph won his unanimous MVP as his 2nd one."
In response to Reply # 48


  

          

So...no.

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

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ThaTruth
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52. "who were the top 5 NBA players in 2016?"
In response to Reply # 51


          

________________________________________
"Stay out the dark, cause if I catch you when the sun is down..."
https://youtu.be/eaaTxVRG06c?t=89

  

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Dstl1
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53. "Bron, KD, AD, Harden, Steph, IMO"
In response to Reply # 52


          

.

when I threw the rifle in the river,
it looked like Bol Bol was diving in the river - Action Bronson

  

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ThaTruth
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54. "so I was right? FYI these were the All-NBA teams in 2016:"
In response to Reply # 53


          

2015-16 NBA 1st DeAndre Jordan C LeBron James F Kawhi Leonard F Stephen Curry G Russell Westbrook G
2015-16 NBA 2nd DeMarcus Cousins C Kevin Durant F Draymond Green F Chris Paul G Damian Lillard G
2015-16 NBA 3rd Andre Drummond C Paul George F LaMarcus Aldridge F Klay Thompson G Kyle Lowry G

________________________________________
"Stay out the dark, cause if I catch you when the sun is down..."
https://youtu.be/eaaTxVRG06c?t=89

  

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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
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Wed Jun-09-21 06:23 PM

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55. "I guess Marc Gasol was top 5 the year before then."
In response to Reply # 54


  

          

Top 4 in 2015, again - Steph's first MVP - was probably some form of Bron, KD, Harden, AD and then it's a toss up from there. I don't think Steph was widely considered top 5 until the end of that season, if at all.

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

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ThaTruth
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56. "We're not talking about Marc Gasol, we're talking about Steph in 2016..."
In response to Reply # 55


          

when he was unanimous MVP if he was top 5 player and you say no I'm asking you to name your top 5.

Stop trying to spin in into something else. Answer the question or STFU.

________________________________________
"Stay out the dark, cause if I catch you when the sun is down..."
https://youtu.be/eaaTxVRG06c?t=89

  

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Ryan M
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57. "Why 2016 is my question"
In response to Reply # 56
Wed Jun-09-21 10:22 PM by Ryan M

  

          

His first MVP was what vaulted him to top 5 (if not before). That wasn’t 2016.

2016? Unanimous MVP year? Yeah obvious top 5.

What are we talking about here?

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

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Frank Longo
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Wed Jun-09-21 10:47 PM

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58. "The whole thing is baffling."
In response to Reply # 57


  

          

No one has argued he wasn’t top 5 by his consensus MVP season— only that he wasn’t top 5 by the start of his first MVP season. I think that point is super clear and pretty transparently factual.

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

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ThaTruth
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61. "I know you're trying to save your boy Ryan but he's gotta walk this shit..."
In response to Reply # 58


          

down live a grown ass man.

________________________________________
"Stay out the dark, cause if I catch you when the sun is down..."
https://youtu.be/eaaTxVRG06c?t=89

  

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Ryan M
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Wed Jun-09-21 11:28 PM

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63. "Dude. "
In response to Reply # 61


  

          

Steph was an arguable Top 5 player when he won his first MVP. It wasn’t at all arguable on the 2nd (unanimous) one. I legitimately do not understand your argument.

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

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Frank Longo
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Thu Jun-10-21 12:19 AM

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64. "I just can’t tell what you don’t understand."
In response to Reply # 61
Thu Jun-10-21 12:19 AM by Frank Longo

  

          

Are you arguing that Steph was a Top 5 player before his first MVP? Giannis before his? Because you only brought up in reply #48 Steph and Giannis after they already won an MVP— and Ryan and I both agree that Steph and Giannis were Top 5 after their first MVP seasons.

So… I just don’t know why you countered me like you did, or why there’s any debate taking place, lol. I’m genuinely confused.

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For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

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ThaTruth
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73. "RE: I just can’t tell what you don’t understand."
In response to Reply # 64


          

www.rif.org

________________________________________
"Stay out the dark, cause if I catch you when the sun is down..."
https://youtu.be/eaaTxVRG06c?t=89

  

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Frank Longo
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Thu Jun-10-21 10:21 AM

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78. "So you replied to my post with a follow-up about a different season."
In response to Reply # 73


  

          

I’d hope you can see why everyone in this post is wondering what you meant. I posted about Steph and Giannis’s first season. You replied about their second MVP seasons—

you know what? never mind, lol. Not worth it. Yes, they were top 5 by their second MVP seasons. And I never said differently. Any semantics you wanna debate endlessly with Ryan, you go for it. *pulls chute, is jettisoned away from post*

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BrooklynWHAT
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Thu Jun-10-21 09:24 AM

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71. "IKR? the debate then was if Steph was better than Bron at that point"
In response to Reply # 58


  

          

not if he was top 5. obviously we got the answer in the finals but idk what Truth is on here

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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ThaTruth
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74. "I specifically asked about the 2015-2016 season."
In response to Reply # 71


          

________________________________________
"Stay out the dark, cause if I catch you when the sun is down..."
https://youtu.be/eaaTxVRG06c?t=89

  

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ThaTruth
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59. "posts #48 & #51. n.m"
In response to Reply # 57


          

________________________________________
"Stay out the dark, cause if I catch you when the sun is down..."
https://youtu.be/eaaTxVRG06c?t=89

  

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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
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Wed Jun-09-21 11:16 PM

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62. "So…you bring up a guy who won an MVP already"
In response to Reply # 59


  

          

And compared him to a guy who just won one?

Like what IS your argument here? Explain it. Because you’re waffling.

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

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ThaTruth
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66. "Explain your response in post #51."
In response to Reply # 57


          

>His first MVP was what vaulted him to top 5 (if not before).
>That wasn’t 2016.
>
>2016? Unanimous MVP year? Yeah obvious top 5.
>
>What are we talking about here?

________________________________________
"Stay out the dark, cause if I catch you when the sun is down..."
https://youtu.be/eaaTxVRG06c?t=89

  

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Dstl1
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Thu Jun-10-21 08:10 AM

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67. "So, I feel like it’s just phrasing, here…"
In response to Reply # 66


          

you asked was Steph not top 5 in his unanimous mvp season. Ryan’s response ended with…so, no. That may have given the feel that his answer to your question, was no… I think we ALL agree, though…
2015 Steph was probably top 10
2016 Steph was clearly top 5

when I threw the rifle in the river,
it looked like Bol Bol was diving in the river - Action Bronson

  

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ThaTruth
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68. "why is everyone COPPING PLEAS for this man?"
In response to Reply # 67


          


>Ryan’s response ended with…so, no. That may have given
>the feel that his answer to your question, was no…

"so, no" does not mean "no" in English?

________________________________________
"Stay out the dark, cause if I catch you when the sun is down..."
https://youtu.be/eaaTxVRG06c?t=89

  

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Dstl1
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69. "I got no reason to cop pleas for anyone…"
In response to Reply # 68


          

I see why you see his response that way. I honestly do. I just don’t think that’s what he meant to say.

when I threw the rifle in the river,
it looked like Bol Bol was diving in the river - Action Bronson

  

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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
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Thu Jun-10-21 09:04 AM

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70. "Dst got it. "
In response to Reply # 66


  

          

It’s phrasing.

I’m saying “so, no” to indicate that you were wrong in bringing up 2016. He was a reigning MVP who won a 2nd one after a 73 win year. Obviously he was top 5 at that point. I said “so no” because it’s a disingenuous argument to bring up his 2nd MVP when the point was sometimes an MVP vaults you into that discussion. At that point Steph had an MVP. Same with Giannis last year.

Anyway, get caught up in 2 words if you want. I can’t be any more clear.

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

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ThaTruth
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72. "If you just could've said you "misspoke" or you LIED you would've saved...."
In response to Reply # 70


          

a lot of folks a lot of typing.

I thought in 2021 it was understood that "no" means "no".

________________________________________
"Stay out the dark, cause if I catch you when the sun is down..."
https://youtu.be/eaaTxVRG06c?t=89

  

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Ryan M
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Thu Jun-10-21 09:51 AM

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75. "Ok. Feel better?"
In response to Reply # 72


  

          

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

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ThaTruth
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76. "did I miss the post where you actually said you LIED?"
In response to Reply # 75


          

________________________________________
"Stay out the dark, cause if I catch you when the sun is down..."
https://youtu.be/eaaTxVRG06c?t=89

  

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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
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Thu Jun-10-21 10:08 AM

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77. "You must have. Because I didn’t, you weirdo. "
In response to Reply # 76


  

          

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

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ThaTruth
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79. "Unless you're claiming you were hacked there's no way around it."
In response to Reply # 77


          

________________________________________
"Stay out the dark, cause if I catch you when the sun is down..."
https://youtu.be/eaaTxVRG06c?t=89

  

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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
41355 posts
Thu Jun-10-21 11:33 AM

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83. "Let me break it down for you."
In response to Reply # 79


  

          

You said: Other than Nash and Jokic has there ever been someone named MVP who wasn't top 5

Longo said: Steph and Giannis made the leap to top 5 after their first MVP.

You said: Steph wasn't top 5 in the year he won a unanimous MVP?

I said: That's his 2nd MVP so...no. (And now editorial from me: That "no" is to say that this is not the argument we were having)

Get it?

If you don't, I don't care at this point. You're being dense and you changed the argument. Oh well.

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

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ThaTruth
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Thu Jun-10-21 11:39 AM

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84. "I asked you a specific question. You said “no”. End of story."
In response to Reply # 83


          

________________________________________
"Stay out the dark, cause if I catch you when the sun is down..."
https://youtu.be/eaaTxVRG06c?t=89

  

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ThaTruth
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Wed Jun-09-21 12:36 PM

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47. "RE: Sometimes an MVP is the thing that vaults people into that discussio..."
In response to Reply # 45


          

>Don't think Nash was ever top 5. Jokic is debatable. Was Dirk
>top 5 getting his MVP? Westbrook definitely was not. Hell, was
>Rose?

I think Dirk was definitely in the conversation. I think Russ and Rose were for a hot minute.

________________________________________
"Stay out the dark, cause if I catch you when the sun is down..."
https://youtu.be/eaaTxVRG06c?t=89

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
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Thu Jun-10-21 11:11 AM

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80. "Same suspects."
In response to Reply # 0
Thu Jun-10-21 11:29 AM by allStah

          

At least I get along with other Bulls posters while disagreeing

Lakers fans cussing and capping on each other....

I guess Ls do that to a fanbase.



HIS NAME IS MASON MOUNT
Bulls | Bears | White Sox | Yankees | Notre Dame | Illinois | Chelsea | Real Madrid

  

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ThaTruth
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81. "Meanwhile actual Bulls’ teammates capping on each other lol"
In response to Reply # 80


          

________________________________________
"Stay out the dark, cause if I catch you when the sun is down..."
https://youtu.be/eaaTxVRG06c?t=89

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
5532 posts
Thu Jun-10-21 11:28 AM

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82. "Lol"
In response to Reply # 81


          

HIS NAME IS MASON MOUNT
Bulls | Bears | White Sox | Yankees | Notre Dame | Illinois | Chelsea | Real Madrid

  

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ThaTruth
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Mon Jun-14-21 10:41 AM

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85. "maybe CP3 should've finished higher that 5th in the voting"
In response to Reply # 0


          

________________________________________
"Stay out the dark, cause if I catch you when the sun is down..."
https://youtu.be/eaaTxVRG06c?t=89

  

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