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Subject: "WOW!!! Raptors/Spurs finalizing deal for Kawhi...Derozan going back" Search result list | First match | Last match
Dstl1
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Wed Jul-18-18 05:02 AM

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"WOW!!! Raptors/Spurs finalizing deal for Kawhi...Derozan going back"
Wed Jul-18-18 05:15 AM by Dstl1

          

Yo.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/24126943/san-antonio-spurs-toronto-raptors-finalizing-deal-involving-kawhi-leonard-demar-derozan

...cleaned up my act, made a few violent songs...but, they wack like Glen Rice with New Balance on - Sean Price

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
You know Casey is pissed AF
Jul 18th 2018
1
Pissed that he couldn't lose derozan for a rental?
Jul 18th 2018
6
      Pissed that he couldn't coach an ACTUAL star swingman.
Jul 18th 2018
11
      Yeah I don't get what he would be so mad about
Jul 18th 2018
86
           LMAO. A Healthy Kawhi is not a "Minor" upgrade over Derozan.
Jul 24th 2018
168
                That minor upgrade worked out well
May 27th 2019
193
OKC 2.0?
Jul 18th 2018
2
Raptors playing themselves
Jul 18th 2018
3
Lol word
Jul 18th 2018
5
how?
Jul 18th 2018
7
not really. lowry/derozen core wasn't winning shit.
Jul 18th 2018
9
pretty sure they aren't doing this trade to tank.
Jul 18th 2018
23
Lol at an All NBA players contract being an obstacle
Jul 18th 2018
29
      right, the 1st blew that theory out of the water
Jul 18th 2018
33
           I really don't understand the logic of some of these GMs
Jul 18th 2018
38
huh?
Jul 18th 2018
10
played themselves right into a championship
Jun 14th 2019
199
DeMar Derozen In His Feelings Challenge
Jul 18th 2018
4
RE: DeMar Derozen In His Feelings Challenge
Jul 18th 2018
13
      right...they said he met with the team recently and they told him...
Jul 18th 2018
18
Derozan is the least spurs way star in the league
Jul 18th 2018
8
Who in the hell does this?
Jul 18th 2018
12
Leonard/Green for DeRozan/Poetl + protected 2019 pick
Jul 18th 2018
14
but, DANNY!!!!! (c)Mike Golic
Jul 18th 2018
16
they got Green too? shit.
Jul 18th 2018
21
lol @ rebuild....toronto trading away a 1st rounder
Jul 18th 2018
25
protected 1-20
Jul 18th 2018
40
Danny Green?! Shit. Bandwagon candidate now.
Jul 18th 2018
45
Kawhi gets to the Finals and stays. Derozan gets a better situation.
Jul 18th 2018
15
raps still not making the finals.
Jul 18th 2018
31
T.Dot rebuilding lol
Jul 18th 2018
17
^^^ standing in this line
Jul 18th 2018
55
Gotta wonder
Jul 18th 2018
19
RE: WOW!!! Raptors/Spurs finalizing deal for Kawhi...Derozan going back
Jul 18th 2018
20
It seems like a lot to give up for a one year rental
Jul 18th 2018
22
What’s funny is, a DeRozan/Aldridge Spurs team could win the East
Jul 18th 2018
24
you knew Pop wasn't going to appease an inter-conference rival
Jul 18th 2018
26
yep...I said that in that very first "Kawhi wants to go to the Lakers" t...
Jul 18th 2018
27
      well I don't think the Spurs really did have leverage
Jul 18th 2018
37
Ujiri might be the worst GM in the league
Jul 18th 2018
28
lol yup
Jul 18th 2018
34
guy WANTED to play and live in Canada
Jul 18th 2018
39
RE: Ujiri might be the worst GM in the league
Jul 18th 2018
82
What!?! He built a 1 seed with NO stars in TORONTO. The fuck!?!?
Jul 19th 2018
96
DeRozan has multiple All NBA honors. hes a star, period.
Jul 19th 2018
100
      LMAOOO. Just like Kevin Love. 3RD BEST PLAYER on chip team.
Jul 19th 2018
102
I don't agree with that
Jul 20th 2018
104
both sides have ballsed this up in a mega way.
Jul 18th 2018
30
they will flip him by the break
Jul 18th 2018
32
only way to turn this into a W for raps
Jul 18th 2018
35
Definitely. But it will be for peanuts. MAYBE they get their 1st back
Jul 18th 2018
36
>< Said the same thing in 17
Jul 18th 2018
51
Couldnt they have just not re-signed Derozan?
Jul 18th 2018
41
they could've but they wanted him to be their Kobe
Jul 18th 2018
43
Not thinking like a GM
Jul 18th 2018
71
      Guess I am not as big of an asshole as I thought then.
Jul 18th 2018
74
i'm happy with this, kinda shocked philly couldn't do better
Jul 18th 2018
42
Masai is one of the better GMs in the league.
Jul 18th 2018
44
... is there *zero* chance Kawhi stays, though?
Jul 18th 2018
46
zero. PG a bozo.
Jul 18th 2018
47
lol...oh, NOW he's a bozo
Jul 18th 2018
50
      It IS kind of ironic, he put up all that fuss to get out of Indiana...
Jul 18th 2018
54
      lol he didn't even put up any fuss...
Jul 18th 2018
56
           Bottom line, is he in a better situation?
Jul 18th 2018
63
      yep. you do bozo things then youre a bozo.
Jul 18th 2018
68
zero? of course not, but it's close IMO
Jul 18th 2018
53
Spurs Twitter going hard at Uncle Dennis.
Jul 18th 2018
48
Is Dennis his actual name?
Jul 18th 2018
59
Dennis is his name...he's the brother of Kawhi's mom...
Jul 18th 2018
61
Don't know how his lawyer turned agent is escaping "blame"
Jul 18th 2018
81
Also have to wonder
Jul 18th 2018
49
Sounds like he's transitioning into the "lifestyle" portion of his caree...
Jul 18th 2018
80
this entire scenario is hilarisad...
Jul 18th 2018
52
I'm all for moving past the era of blaming athletes for making money
Jul 18th 2018
57
Kawhi will get most of the hate while Raps org lying....
Jul 18th 2018
58
thank you. I mentioned that above...they told dude to his grill
Jul 18th 2018
60
That shit is BRUTAL. No loyalty in this game.
Jul 18th 2018
62
yes
Jul 18th 2018
64
The game is the game, nobody ever tells a player he’s being traded...
Jul 18th 2018
66
this is exactly why Lebron signed 1 years w/ no trade clauses
Jul 18th 2018
67
How could the Raps make this deal without communicating...
Jul 18th 2018
65
I said the same thing.
Jul 18th 2018
69
The going logic with this Kawhi thing has always been don't ask ?s
Jul 18th 2018
73
      what?! lol...
Jul 18th 2018
76
           ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Jul 18th 2018
78
           For all tat fleecing he did to the Knicks, Denver got no stars
Jul 21st 2018
114
                Denver went 57-25 the following year with the #1 offense
Jul 21st 2018
117
                     Knicks won their first division title in a decade + with Melo.
Jul 21st 2018
127
                     They would have done that with Amare insurance the following year
Jul 24th 2018
167
                     so denver got better and so did the knicks.
Jul 23rd 2018
140
           for his Bird rights
Jul 19th 2018
101
This is the best deal for the Spurs.
Jul 18th 2018
70
plus he and Lowry were legit best friends..
Jul 18th 2018
72
Good sources are reporting no one was offering anything of substance
Jul 18th 2018
75
this Fultz love.....
Jul 19th 2018
94
they had limited leverage this was the best deal they were going to get
Jul 18th 2018
77
no question, once toronto got involved, it was a wrap
Jul 18th 2018
90
Expected, once Toronto was in the mix LAL and PHI were out
Jul 18th 2018
79
How do they get out from under Lowry's contract?
Jul 18th 2018
84
      In two years they will have about 10M in committed salary
Jul 18th 2018
88
I need to see him play this year, and embrace his time there
Jul 18th 2018
83
^^^^
Jul 19th 2018
91
RE: WOW!!! Raptors/Spurs finalizing deal for Kawhi...Derozan going back
Jul 18th 2018
85
it seems to me like Toronto would accept a price the spurs might not
Jul 18th 2018
87
I thought about that but if they were gonna flip him, why bother w/this?
Jul 18th 2018
89
only reason to bother w/ this is if they wanted to part ways anyway
Jul 19th 2018
92
Why are y'all acting like Derozon is a blue chip? He's NOT.
Jul 19th 2018
98
idk who takes derozan
Jul 19th 2018
99
naw.....
Jul 20th 2018
108
      This could be a win-win for both guys....
Jul 20th 2018
109
lol..
Jul 19th 2018
93
That's awesome. Stealing this.
Jul 19th 2018
95
      the way he pushed dude to the floor while...
Jul 19th 2018
97
Ujiri apologizes to Derozan...sorry...you misunderstood me.
Jul 20th 2018
103
LMAO!!! Black GM has to apologize, OF COURSE.
Jul 20th 2018
105
I'd like to agree with your premise... BUT
Jul 20th 2018
107
      Are you on drugs?
Jul 20th 2018
111
           No doubt. But I also believe he's been wanting to get rid of...
Jul 21st 2018
119
                Right, and even fewer apologizing for making a GOOD trade.
Jul 21st 2018
121
                     I’m sticking up for Dwane Casey. Keep up.
Jul 21st 2018
128
LMAO. man....
Jul 21st 2018
125
yeesh. grand slam for toronto. masai is a gawd.
Jul 20th 2018
106
A++ by Masai, one of best GMs in the league
Jul 20th 2018
110
^^LAWWWD. I'm in this WHOLE POST THINKING I'M ON MARS
Jul 20th 2018
112
#15
Jul 20th 2018
113
Cool. Kinda buried between mountains of nonsense posts, but thanks
Jul 21st 2018
115
NOT ON MARS. Those who know (in toronto), know.
Jul 21st 2018
126
      ^This guy once wrote a great review of the arly iPOD.
Jul 21st 2018
129
      Hahaha wow, thats hilarious. i forgot about that
Jul 22nd 2018
130
      I agree with all of this.
Jul 22nd 2018
131
east favorite after upgrading their best player but not adding to him?
Jul 21st 2018
116
Right if they looking to a rebuild, this not how to do it.
Jul 21st 2018
118
LMAO. Kawhi is an all-world, Finals MVP, you imbecile.
Jul 21st 2018
120
      too bad they dont have a #2 or #3 for a title team
Jul 21st 2018
122
      yup.
Jul 21st 2018
123
           Yup, Knicks been doing it for the last decade
Jul 21st 2018
124
           DD would be the same age at the end of his deal as Lowry today
Jul 22nd 2018
132
                sorry fam. we just disagree.
Jul 22nd 2018
133
                     ^Lock and Archive.
Jul 22nd 2018
134
                     so hold on, they don't make the finals and pivot to a rebuild
Jul 23rd 2018
135
                          Kawhi is a generational, franchise-talent.
Jul 23rd 2018
136
                               The 'they are gonna rebuild anyway' copout is dumb
Jul 23rd 2018
141
                                    That's the thing: the Kawhi play *also* gets you to rebuild faster.
Jul 23rd 2018
142
                                         a faster rebuild woulda been trading derozan for young players, cap
Jul 23rd 2018
146
                                              You're not even getting Kyle Kuzma for Demar Derozan
Jul 23rd 2018
152
                                                   I thought the spurs just gave up a generational talent for him
Jul 23rd 2018
153
                                                        LMAO
Jul 23rd 2018
155
                                                        EXACTLY why it's a Titanic victory for Toronto, Einstein.
Jul 23rd 2018
156
                                                        Uh huh
Jul 24th 2018
160
                                                        You fumbled into the correct point you didn't realize you were making
Jul 23rd 2018
157
                                                             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Jul 23rd 2018
158
RE: improved *dramatically*
Jul 23rd 2018
137
of course. we're all making assumptions.
Jul 23rd 2018
138
Even if he isn't, they are closer to rebuilding. It's a genius move.
Jul 23rd 2018
143
      ...or you could trade Derozan for pieces to rebuild...
Jul 23rd 2018
144
           LMAO. Why do y'all think you're getting blue chip for Derozan?
Jul 23rd 2018
145
                RE: LMAO. Why do YOU think they aren't in rebuild mode right now?
Jul 23rd 2018
149
                     NO trade for Derozon BETTER than the CHANCE to have Kawhi
Jul 23rd 2018
151
                          So when Ujiri gets fired, you'll spare us the plea cops...right?
Jul 24th 2018
164
                               Uh. He's black, bro. He's gonna get fired anyway.
Jul 24th 2018
166
smfh.
Jun 13th 2019
196
      man, you totally nailed it
Jun 14th 2019
198
           I'm saying tho, doc. shit wasn't even rocket science.
Jun 14th 2019
200
best case scenario for kawhi and the raptors:
Jul 23rd 2018
139
c'mon
Jul 23rd 2018
147
      kawhi leonard is very good at basketball.
Jul 23rd 2018
148
           if IF was a 5th
Jul 23rd 2018
150
           They don't beat golden state bruh
Jul 23rd 2018
154
           They may not, but a team that loses under 20 games is a threat.
Jul 24th 2018
159
           Are we underestimating the Spurs system here? And how much it had...
Jul 24th 2018
161
                Did you see Kawhi pre-injury offensively? He was lights out.
Jul 24th 2018
162
                RE: Did you see Kawhi pre-injury offensively? He was lights out.
Jul 24th 2018
163
                     Takes my L lol
May 25th 2019
175
                Yes.
Jul 24th 2018
165
                This post is the gift that keeps on giving.
Jul 25th 2018
170
                um, kawhi is very good at basketball.
Jul 24th 2018
169
                     wow. that analysis. the truth telling. the foresight my god.
Jun 13th 2019
197
Spurs are ass. Raptors are not. Popovich gets no blame?
Dec 01st 2018
171
Pop did his usual and it backfired...
Dec 01st 2018
172
Pop blaming himself...so there's that.
Dec 01st 2018
173
lolz!!!
May 25th 2019
174
So was Pop and the Spurs system actually holding Kawhi back?
May 25th 2019
176
wat.
May 26th 2019
180
      No doubt the Spurs developed him, but maybe it got to a point...
May 26th 2019
182
      Bwahaha. Kawhi is not a random nigga from Congo
May 26th 2019
185
           lmao. not sure who "we" is, but ok.
May 26th 2019
186
                Cool! So did Mark Jackson "Develop" Steph, Klay, Draymond??
May 26th 2019
188
                     of course he did.
May 26th 2019
189
                          lol...so simple. he tried to trick you into a place you already were at
May 27th 2019
194
most will be redeemed if kawhi bounces on them
May 25th 2019
177
      nah regardless of what happens going forward it''s already a massive win...
May 26th 2019
178
           it paid off, obviously, but that's known now
May 26th 2019
179
Can someone check on Skip Bayless?
May 26th 2019
181
RE: Can someone check on Skip Bayless?
May 26th 2019
184
or what if Zaza didn't take out Kawhi in '17?
May 26th 2019
183
i almost threw up when that happened. spurs absolutely had a shot
May 26th 2019
187
what if?
May 26th 2019
190
Eliminating the best player in a series is a major "what if".
May 27th 2019
191
we sure do a lot of What If scenarios with this Dubs squad
May 27th 2019
192
      get your panties out of a bunch, people do that with a almost every...
May 28th 2019
195

The Real
Charter member
13546 posts
Wed Jul-18-18 05:26 AM

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1. "You know Casey is pissed AF"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  

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Cenario
Member since Aug 24th 2005
56791 posts
Wed Jul-18-18 06:25 AM

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6. "Pissed that he couldn't lose derozan for a rental?"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52532 posts
Wed Jul-18-18 07:20 AM

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11. "Pissed that he couldn't coach an ACTUAL star swingman. "
In response to Reply # 6


  

          


Jesus Christ, being a black coach is so fucking
laughable.

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71083 posts
Wed Jul-18-18 07:05 PM

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86. "Yeah I don't get what he would be so mad about"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

This is a potentially minor upgrade for one year and then they go hurling toward a rebuild. He has an OK situation in Detroit.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52532 posts
Tue Jul-24-18 09:47 PM

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168. "LMAO. A Healthy Kawhi is not a "Minor" upgrade over Derozan. "
In response to Reply # 86


  

          

>This is a potentially minor upgrade for one year and then
>they go hurling toward a rebuild. He has an OK situation in
>Detroit.

It's the difference between a "third best guy on a chip
team" and an alpha, supremo alpha top 3 MVP candidate.

  

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The Real
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193. "That minor upgrade worked out well "
In response to Reply # 168


  

          


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  

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Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
130071 posts
Wed Jul-18-18 05:53 AM

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2. "OKC 2.0?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Spurs gonna be WEIRD next season. the 4th Migo gonna be featured more, I'd bet.

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
78220 posts
Wed Jul-18-18 06:14 AM

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3. "Raptors playing themselves "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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Cenario
Member since Aug 24th 2005
56791 posts
Wed Jul-18-18 06:25 AM

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5. "Lol word"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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Dstl1
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7. "how?"
In response to Reply # 3


          

.

...cleaned up my act, made a few violent songs...but, they wack like Glen Rice with New Balance on - Sean Price

  

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bshelly
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Wed Jul-18-18 06:27 AM

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9. "not really. lowry/derozen core wasn't winning shit."
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

if (when) kawhi bolts, they can start the tank. derozen's contract was the biggest obstacle to a full rebuild.

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

  

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Cenario
Member since Aug 24th 2005
56791 posts
Wed Jul-18-18 08:46 AM

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23. "pretty sure they aren't doing this trade to tank."
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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icecold21
Member since Jan 18th 2008
8431 posts
Wed Jul-18-18 09:12 AM

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29. "Lol at an All NBA players contract being an obstacle "
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

Demar is in his prime and was their best asset to flip for a rebuild. They gave him away for nothing.

Plus a 1st! Smh

_________________________________________

  

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Cenario
Member since Aug 24th 2005
56791 posts
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33. "right, the 1st blew that theory out of the water"
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

they coulda got more for derozan if the plan was a rebuild.

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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icecold21
Member since Jan 18th 2008
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Wed Jul-18-18 09:28 AM

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38. "I really don't understand the logic of some of these GMs"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

and how they stay employed.

Ujiri, Grunfeld, whatever idiot is in Memphis...

Some of it I figure is ownership not wanting a rebuild and being content with playoff contention, but even within those parameters it can be mind boggling.

_________________________________________

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
62645 posts
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10. "huh?"
In response to Reply # 3


          

even if it's one year it should be a good one..

unless dude refuses to play

shut up already, damn

  

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Oak27
Member since Apr 17th 2005
11924 posts
Fri Jun-14-19 08:49 AM

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199. "played themselves right into a championship"
In response to Reply # 3


          

  

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bshelly
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4. "DeMar Derozen In His Feelings Challenge"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

In a story posted on his Instagram page on Wednesday morning, Derozan wrote, "Be told one thing & outcome another. Can't trust em. Ain't no loyalty in this game. Sell you out quit for a little bit of nothing...soon you'll understand... Don't disturb..."

Ujiri, do you love me? are you riding?

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

  

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ShawndmeSlanted
Member since Oct 30th 2004
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13. "RE: DeMar Derozen In His Feelings Challenge"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

Remember he posted about depression and mental health issues this year. Tread lightly

---
"though time has passed, im still the future" (c) black thought

  

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Dstl1
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18. "right...they said he met with the team recently and they told him..."
In response to Reply # 13


          

to his face he wasn't going to be traded.

...cleaned up my act, made a few violent songs...but, they wack like Glen Rice with New Balance on - Sean Price

  

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Cenario
Member since Aug 24th 2005
56791 posts
Wed Jul-18-18 06:27 AM

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8. "Derozan is the least spurs way star in the league"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

But then again, so was Aldridge lol

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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DVS
Member since Sep 13th 2002
19712 posts
Wed Jul-18-18 07:35 AM

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12. "Who in the hell does this?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Methinks that the Raptors really want to blow this team up as Lowry/DeRozan have proven they just don't have enough to come out of the East.

Even with the LeBronkers making the East a kindler, gentler playoffs, you ain't making it past the Celtics the way they are looking.

So...you sell the world that you are making a run at Kwahi...then you can play that you are all butt-hurt when he doesn't take the goo-gobs of money you toss at him but don't REALLY want to part with....BOO-YAH!!! Instant rebuild.

D

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

Waldorf and Statler Vol 4:CONAN IS OUT NOW!!!: http://waldorfandstatler.bandcamp.com

and don't forget to check "DVS 4 ALDERMAN"

http://windimoto.bandcamp.com/album/dvs-4-alderman-bandcamp-exclusive-expanded-editio

  

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wrecknoble
Member since Mar 15th 2005
1994 posts
Wed Jul-18-18 08:02 AM

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14. "Leonard/Green for DeRozan/Poetl + protected 2019 pick"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1019567705521655809

Instagram (Digital):
http://www.instagram.com/npervaizphotography

Instagram (Film):
http://www.instagram.com/npervaizfilmphoto

  

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Dstl1
Charter member
47828 posts
Wed Jul-18-18 08:07 AM

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16. "but, DANNY!!!!! (c)Mike Golic"
In response to Reply # 14


          

.

...cleaned up my act, made a few violent songs...but, they wack like Glen Rice with New Balance on - Sean Price

  

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bshelly
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Wed Jul-18-18 08:36 AM

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21. "they got Green too? shit."
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

they might have the inside track on the two seed in the east and they'll be a matchup problem for the sixers. being able to rotate kawhi and green on simmons is tough. i think ben will learn from the celtics series and be ready for good playoff wing defense, but playoff kawhi is another beast altogether.

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

  

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Cenario
Member since Aug 24th 2005
56791 posts
Wed Jul-18-18 08:48 AM

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25. "lol @ rebuild....toronto trading away a 1st rounder"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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bshelly
Charter member
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Wed Jul-18-18 09:38 AM

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40. "protected 1-20"
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

so the raptors will send them a crap pick next year and still have all their picks when/if the losing starts.

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

  

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Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
130071 posts
Wed Jul-18-18 10:00 AM

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45. "Danny Green?! Shit. Bandwagon candidate now."
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

  

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Castro
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48679 posts
Wed Jul-18-18 08:04 AM

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15. "Kawhi gets to the Finals and stays. Derozan gets a better situation."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Everyone wins except the Clippers.

If the Raptors don't get through the east, Kawhi leaves and you are way under the cap. If the Raptors don't get through the East with Derozan, you are stuck with Derozan.

Ujiri is definitely a chess player. Interested to see how this plays out.

------------------
One Hundred.

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
78220 posts
Wed Jul-18-18 09:15 AM

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31. "raps still not making the finals."
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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auragin_boi
Member since Aug 01st 2003
20626 posts
Wed Jul-18-18 08:07 AM

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17. "T.Dot rebuilding lol"
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Jul-18-18 08:08 AM by auragin_boi

  

          

They gonna showcase Kawhi for half a season and try to trade him for a haul at the deadline.

Wouldn't be surprised to see Lowry head out the door with him (in a separate deal).

Then they gonna hand the keys to OG, Wright and...Jonas? (And whomever they bring back in a trade).

Pop wanna prove he can make a champ out of ANYBODY lol

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
14413 posts
Wed Jul-18-18 11:50 AM

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55. "^^^ standing in this line"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

TOR trades him by season's end

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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Numba_33
Charter member
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Wed Jul-18-18 08:20 AM

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19. "Gotta wonder"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

how much longer Popovich is going to coach. He just lost one of the better two way players in the league and he's coaching out in the West with so many killer teams. This upcoming Spurs team is going to be so wildly different; should be a nice challenge to see if the Spurs will make the playoffs next year.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

  

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Boogiedwn
Member since Sep 25th 2003
8643 posts
Wed Jul-18-18 08:24 AM

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20. "RE: WOW!!! Raptors/Spurs finalizing deal for Kawhi...Derozan going back"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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Marauder21
Charter member
49515 posts
Wed Jul-18-18 08:44 AM

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22. "It seems like a lot to give up for a one year rental"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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Tiger Woods
Member since Feb 15th 2004
16664 posts
Wed Jul-18-18 08:47 AM

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24. "What’s funny is, a DeRozan/Aldridge Spurs team could win the East"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


On Kawhi:
That the Celtics didn’t pursue Kawhi more aggressively tells me they’re all but certain he’s LA-bound no matter what. Unlike the Lakers, the Celtics have a war chest of assets...they must have just decided it wasn’t worth it - if there were an opportunity to secure him long term I think this would’ve played out differently and he’d be in Boston. Kyrie fell into their lap, but it’s seemed for about three years now that Ainge is idling in order to haul in a mega talent. Kawhi is that mega talent...

  

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Vex_id
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Wed Jul-18-18 08:50 AM

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26. "you knew Pop wasn't going to appease an inter-conference rival"
In response to Reply # 0


          

This def makes the East more interesting this year - assuming Kawhi actually plays.

-->

  

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Dstl1
Charter member
47828 posts
Wed Jul-18-18 09:03 AM

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27. "yep...I said that in that very first "Kawhi wants to go to the Lakers" t..."
In response to Reply # 26


          

post. I was told the Spurs didn't have the leverage because Kawhi made it known that's where he wanted to go.

...cleaned up my act, made a few violent songs...but, they wack like Glen Rice with New Balance on - Sean Price

  

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Vex_id
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Wed Jul-18-18 09:23 AM

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37. "well I don't think the Spurs really did have leverage"
In response to Reply # 27


          

I don't think anybody in their right mind would just give away an asset like DeRozan for a 1-year rental. The Spurs probably felt like this was as good of a gift as they were going to get from a proven, ready-made star (though I still think the Lakers offering BI & Lonzo would have much more upside in the long-run).

I just think that the Spurs did this (1) to spite Kawhi and (2) to not appease the Lakers.


-->

  

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icecold21
Member since Jan 18th 2008
8431 posts
Wed Jul-18-18 09:09 AM

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28. "Ujiri might be the worst GM in the league "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

At minimum, he's up there.

Not only did he cap his team's potential by paying Jonas and Serge, instead of being patient and spending wisely, he gives away his best asset for nothing.

There is an infinitesimal chance Kawhi stays. So even if you want to rebuild, you're better off trading your All NBA, in his prime, 3 year contract having star for some rebuilding pieces.

It's hard enough to build a team in a city stars don't want to play in, but trading the one guy that did want to stay for nothing is really doubling down on stupid.

If I was a Raps fan I'd be sick

_________________________________________

  

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Cenario
Member since Aug 24th 2005
56791 posts
Wed Jul-18-18 09:20 AM

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34. "lol yup"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

>It's hard enough to build a team in a city stars don't want to play in, but trading the one guy that did want to stay for nothing is really doubling down on stupid.

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
29128 posts
Wed Jul-18-18 09:30 AM

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39. "guy WANTED to play and live in Canada"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

that's a skill in and of itself

_______________________________________________
"Ran through enough dope for Castro to build schools in Cuba. Teach ya kids how to read and write. And use the Ruger."

  

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Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
130071 posts
Wed Jul-18-18 03:45 PM

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82. "RE: Ujiri might be the worst GM in the league "
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

>Not only did he cap his team's potential by paying Jonas and
>Serge

Jonas, the guy I couldn't stop hearing about the Cavs having drafted Tristan Thompson over. ended up getting a TT-style contract and still eating da poo poo. still think that's a wash.

Yes, I'm mad. Let's move on.

Jays | Cavs | Eagles | Sabres | Tarheels

PSN: Dr_Claw_77 | XBL: Dr Claw 077 | FB: drclaw077 | T: @drclaw77 | http://thepeoplesvault.wordpress.com
Does he ACCEPT? http://i.imgur.com/TBMrAkD.jpg

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52532 posts
Thu Jul-19-18 11:35 AM

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96. "What!?! He built a 1 seed with NO stars in TORONTO. The fuck!?!? "
In response to Reply # 28


  

          


How could he possible be the worst GM in the league!?!?

There are NO stars on that team. None.

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
32199 posts
Thu Jul-19-18 03:04 PM

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100. "DeRozan has multiple All NBA honors. hes a star, period."
In response to Reply # 96


  

          

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52532 posts
Thu Jul-19-18 04:21 PM

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102. "LMAOOO. Just like Kevin Love. 3RD BEST PLAYER on chip team. "
In response to Reply # 100


  

          


That isn't a "star."

Love has multiple All-NBA selections too.

He is also no better than the 3rd best player on
a championship team.

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71083 posts
Fri Jul-20-18 04:11 PM

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104. "I don't agree with that"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

I get what you're saying about Ibaka and JV contracts but with the backcourt priced as it is, he couldn't let those guys walk and then go shopping for other big men. Classic hemmed-in situation for management based on the NBA's "overpay for your guys or else!" mentality.

This trade I don't like--basically a cap dump that also cost them two more assets--but I get the sense like the ownership was the one pushing it. This is a drastic move, the type that usually comes from the top-down, especially considering the implications of a total rebuild should Kawhi, predictably, not re-sign

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
78220 posts
Wed Jul-18-18 09:15 AM

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30. "both sides have ballsed this up in a mega way."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
49348 posts
Wed Jul-18-18 09:16 AM

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32. "they will flip him by the break"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

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Cenario
Member since Aug 24th 2005
56791 posts
Wed Jul-18-18 09:20 AM

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35. "only way to turn this into a W for raps"
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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icecold21
Member since Jan 18th 2008
8431 posts
Wed Jul-18-18 09:22 AM

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36. "Definitely. But it will be for peanuts. MAYBE they get their 1st back "
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

If they lucky

_________________________________________

  

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auragin_boi
Member since Aug 01st 2003
20626 posts
Wed Jul-18-18 10:34 AM

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51. ">< Said the same thing in 17"
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

And one of the teams that was trying to get him now will pay up (Bos, Philly, Lakers).

  

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Ceej
Member since Feb 16th 2006
65585 posts
Wed Jul-18-18 09:43 AM

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41. "Couldnt they have just not re-signed Derozan?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

If they wanted him gone so bad?

http://i.imgur.com/vPqCzVU.jpg

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
78220 posts
Wed Jul-18-18 09:51 AM

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43. "they could've but they wanted him to be their Kobe"
In response to Reply # 41


  

          

meanwhile a year later...

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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Cenario
Member since Aug 24th 2005
56791 posts
Wed Jul-18-18 01:21 PM

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71. "Not thinking like a GM"
In response to Reply # 41


  

          

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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Ceej
Member since Feb 16th 2006
65585 posts
Wed Jul-18-18 02:15 PM

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74. "Guess I am not as big of an asshole as I thought then. "
In response to Reply # 71


  

          

http://i.imgur.com/vPqCzVU.jpg

  

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rob
Charter member
23153 posts
Wed Jul-18-18 09:44 AM

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42. "i'm happy with this, kinda shocked philly couldn't do better"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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Kira
Member since Nov 14th 2004
28121 posts
Wed Jul-18-18 09:59 AM

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44. "Masai is one of the better GMs in the league."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

It's not his fault he ran into prime Bron repeatedly in the playoffs. He's got one of the toughest jobs in the league: convince people to play in Canada. He's done a damn fine job with the resources available. It just sucks that team turned their back on Demar during these tough times. I want him in Cleveland if Koby gets fired. Grab coach Lieberman or coach Becky or Ettore Messina.

I hate the super team BS but moments like these happen and it goes to show how ruthless this league is. Deals need to max out at four years moving forward since players and teams aren't loyal. Baby dinosaurs should've stuck by Demar and brought him back instead of trading him for a one year rental.

Kwahi barely speaks so his press conference is awkward AF.

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
82950 posts
Wed Jul-18-18 10:06 AM

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46. "... is there *zero* chance Kawhi stays, though?"
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Jul-18-18 10:11 AM by Frank Longo

  

          

I mean, we all assumed Paul George was a rental too, and here we are.

EDIT: well, if he never reports to play, that answers that, LMAO.

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
78220 posts
Wed Jul-18-18 10:07 AM

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47. "zero. PG a bozo."
In response to Reply # 46


  

          

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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Dstl1
Charter member
47828 posts
Wed Jul-18-18 10:18 AM

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50. "lol...oh, NOW he's a bozo"
In response to Reply # 47


          

.

...cleaned up my act, made a few violent songs...but, they wack like Glen Rice with New Balance on - Sean Price

  

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ThaTruth
Charter member
88816 posts
Wed Jul-18-18 11:46 AM

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54. "It IS kind of ironic, he put up all that fuss to get out of Indiana..."
In response to Reply # 50


  

          

to go to team in a similar market that had the same record as the Pacers did last year and the Pacers have a brighter future and a better chance at getting to the Finals than OKC.

  

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Dstl1
Charter member
47828 posts
Wed Jul-18-18 11:50 AM

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56. "lol he didn't even put up any fuss..."
In response to Reply # 54


          

he went to them and told them he wasn't staying, they traded him. No fuss. As far as all that other speculation...words, words, words.

...cleaned up my act, made a few violent songs...but, they wack like Glen Rice with New Balance on - Sean Price

  

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ThaTruth
Charter member
88816 posts
Wed Jul-18-18 12:38 PM

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63. "Bottom line, is he in a better situation?"
In response to Reply # 56


  

          

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
78220 posts
Wed Jul-18-18 01:09 PM

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68. "yep. you do bozo things then youre a bozo."
In response to Reply # 50


  

          

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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Kungset
Member since Mar 29th 2004
6310 posts
Wed Jul-18-18 11:13 AM

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53. "zero? of course not, but it's close IMO"
In response to Reply # 46


  

          

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
82950 posts
Wed Jul-18-18 10:11 AM

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48. "Spurs Twitter going hard at Uncle Dennis."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Uncle Dennis is trending, lmao. Some good memeage being dropped.

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

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Numba_33
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17162 posts
Wed Jul-18-18 12:11 PM

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59. "Is Dennis his actual name?"
In response to Reply # 48


  

          

If so, who is the one that mentioned his actual name? I ask because I'm certain it wasn't Kawhi.

I know it's a minor point in this whole scenario, but I am curious because everything have been so hush-hush about this.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

  

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Dstl1
Charter member
47828 posts
Wed Jul-18-18 12:16 PM

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61. "Dennis is his name...he's the brother of Kawhi's mom..."
In response to Reply # 59


          

and his closest adviser. His name has been out there for a while...in all types of stories. He's in the mix when Kawhi's business is getting done.

...cleaned up my act, made a few violent songs...but, they wack like Glen Rice with New Balance on - Sean Price

  

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
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81. "Don't know how his lawyer turned agent is escaping "blame""
In response to Reply # 48


  

          

From all accounts, he's been the other voice in Kawhi's ear telling him that he should leave and trying to push him to L.A.

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

  

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Numba_33
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49. "Also have to wonder"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

if and when all sides involved with share any of the reasons why Kawhi didn't work out in San Antonio long term. Dude walked away from what on paper appears to be a favorable team, not to mentions millions of dollars as well.

Given the folks involved, zero chance of that happening, right?

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

  

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Cocobrotha2
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80. "Sounds like he's transitioning into the "lifestyle" portion of his caree..."
In response to Reply # 49


          

>if and when all sides involved with share any of the reasons
>why Kawhi didn't work out in San Antonio long term. Dude
>walked away from what on paper appears to be a favorable team,
>not to mentions millions of dollars as well.
>
>Given the folks involved, zero chance of that happening,
>right?


He's already had individual success (DPOY, Finals MVP, arguably top 5), team success and earned $60M+.

That's already a pretty good career, even by NBA standards. A low-key guy like him that may not care about record books, "legacy" or being extremely wealthy could easily ride off into the sunset right now.

He really could just sit out for the fuck of it, play at the Y in LA somewhere and wait for the Lakers to call him in a year.

The league and everybody else that makes money off of him won't let that happen though.

<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->
<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->

  

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CyrenYoung
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Wed Jul-18-18 10:51 AM

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52. "this entire scenario is hilarisad..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

..it all reads petty.


*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

  

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Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
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Wed Jul-18-18 12:00 PM

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57. "I'm all for moving past the era of blaming athletes for making money"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

BUT

If this dude Kawhi does NOT play for the Raptors, or Vince Carter's it from Day One...

Look, I'm also in the line that says it makes no sense for a team like the Celtics to empty the war chest for Kawhi until he shows he can play basketball, the same reason I wouldn't agree to including Fultz in any trade of significance despite him showing he can dribble a basketball and set a screen during his short return to the court. He still couldn't shoot!

Kawhi is still talking A) moody as fuck and B) hasn't shown anyone publicly that he's the same basketball player. There aren't any "reports" that he's killing it on a street court somewhere, just that BS report that he's "interested" in playing for Team USA. He should be "interested" in playing for the Raptors to prove he's still this guy everyone says is worth half the damn Celtics!

Again, I love this player empowerment era we're in, probably because I've never rooted for a team over a player in my life, but at some point this guy needs to cash a paycheck and prove himself again, IMO. He asked for a trade and got it, now he needs to stop pouting, recognize he didn't get sent to a WORSE situation (Toronto might be Canada, but it's a significantly cooler city than San Antonio by any metric) and just play some damn basketball.

~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
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Wed Jul-18-18 12:02 PM

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58. "Kawhi will get most of the hate while Raps org lying...."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

to Demarr will be glossed over. It's pathetic

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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Dstl1
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60. "thank you. I mentioned that above...they told dude to his grill"
In response to Reply # 58


          

he wasn't gonna be traded.

...cleaned up my act, made a few violent songs...but, they wack like Glen Rice with New Balance on - Sean Price

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Wed Jul-18-18 12:18 PM

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62. "That shit is BRUTAL. No loyalty in this game."
In response to Reply # 58


  

          

That’s why, while I question Kawhi’s decision-making, you can’t question his right to do what he feels is best for his career. Lord knows the GMs ain’t gonna be loyal to him, so do what’s in your best interest and fuck the rest.

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

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rob
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Wed Jul-18-18 12:40 PM

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64. "yes"
In response to Reply # 62


  

          

  

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ThaTruth
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66. "The game is the game, nobody ever tells a player he’s being traded..."
In response to Reply # 58


  

          

until he’s actually traded lol.

Except for maybe 5 or 6 dudes anybody in the league can be on the trade block at any time.

  

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Vex_id
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67. "this is exactly why Lebron signed 1 years w/ no trade clauses"
In response to Reply # 58


          

with an owner he didn't trust (and rightfully so).

I always defend the player's right to self-determination. Owners and franchises look out for their bottom-line - they don't deserve loyalty.

-->

  

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ThaTruth
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65. "How could the Raps make this deal without communicating..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

with Kawhi first to see if he even wanted to play there or didn’t they just want to get rid of Derozan that bad?

  

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adg87
Member since Jun 22nd 2003
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Wed Jul-18-18 01:14 PM

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69. "I said the same thing. "
In response to Reply # 65


  

          

It ain't that hard to gauge the excitement of a player on a trade, even on some phone sh**. Either they're excited or not excited to come. Even in this day of "do as thy must" for the benefit of the team, organizations generally take that into consideration with superstars. This is just some ol PlayStation front office nonsense right here. I don't feel bad for em at all.

************************************************************

Nigga, if the shoe fits, then buy the matching purse!" Rass Kass

  

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Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
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Wed Jul-18-18 02:09 PM

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73. "The going logic with this Kawhi thing has always been don't ask ?s"
In response to Reply # 65
Wed Jul-18-18 02:10 PM by Nodima

  

          

Just get Kawhi. That's what led to my post above; I'm exhausted over this narrative that Kawhi is just automatically going to be a Top 5 guy whenever he decides to get back on a basketball court.

If that's how it works out, that's amazing, but this guy sat out an entire year because of a combination of handlers whispering in his ear, a seriously confounding injury, and homesickness or depression or some lighter manifestation of those things.

It seems pretty obvious the Raptors just want to blow it up after giving it one more shot while the Celtics and 76ers are still growing up together. So I think this trade makes sense for them; if Kawhi refuses to play for them, they're working under the assumption he's leaving anyway and that jump starts it.

That said, if they were being smart about it in the short term, they'd have found a trade for Lowry instead. The long con with trading DeRozan for Kawhi, if he doesn't play for them or proves he's healthy but undermines the team from the locker room, is hoping they can fleece Los Angeles with a Melo-level gutting later this year.

Ujiri already did it to the Knicks.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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ThaTruth
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76. "what?! lol..."
In response to Reply # 73


  

          


>The long
>con with trading DeRozan for Kawhi, if he doesn't play for
>them or proves he's healthy but undermines the team from the
>locker room, is hoping they can fleece Los Angeles with a
>Melo-level gutting later this year.

if the Lakers didn't go for that now why would they later in the year when they can sign him outright after the season?

  

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Nodima
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Wed Jul-18-18 02:57 PM

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78. "¯\_(ツ)_/¯"
In response to Reply # 76


  

          

That's just what's getting tossed around. Me personally, after that Melo trade, I'd never be trading for a superstar I'm looking to sign in the off season (and have the money to do it) ever again. But I'm sure Ujiri thinks he can convince Magic it's a good idea.


I lean more on the side that thinks he's just looking at Kawhi as a one-year rental in a last chance grasp for an appearance in the Finals. That's a resumé golden ticket and this is gonna be his last chance in Toronto to take it, and he's really not mortgaging his future to do this 'cause the Raptors have really, really good young players.


I'll bet he won't be all that disappointed if/when nobody bites on Kawhi at the trade deadline even if this season blows up in his face; the best and worst case scenarios both work out pretty well for him.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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Cenario
Member since Aug 24th 2005
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Sat Jul-21-18 07:42 AM

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114. "For all tat fleecing he did to the Knicks, Denver got no stars"
In response to Reply # 78


  

          

Knicks got the two best players in the trade.

But sure they were fleeced...lol

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
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Sat Jul-21-18 12:44 PM

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117. "Denver went 57-25 the following year with the #1 offense"
In response to Reply # 114


  

          

Gallo and Chandler got hurt, Lawson found the bottom of the bottle and the game passed Faried by, but name a trade involving a superstar where the future looked any brighter for a team than those Nuggets. This year's Pacers?


Denver bottomed out two years after the trade due to bad luck; New York bottomed out because their depth was shit, a direct result of the Melo trade. I think fleecing is an accurate depiction of that trade because everyone that made Denver good in 2012 was a guy that could've been playing with Melo if NYK had just waited.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52532 posts
Sat Jul-21-18 07:09 PM

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127. "Knicks won their first division title in a decade + with Melo. "
In response to Reply # 117


  

          


So both teams got what they wanted, it seems.

  

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Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
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Tue Jul-24-18 08:21 PM

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167. "They would have done that with Amare insurance the following year"
In response to Reply # 127


  

          

I guess I don't mean that the trade itself was bad, immediately. But look at that 2012 roster, that lost in the semis to the Pacers in 6, and tell me it wouldn't look mean as hell if Chandler and Gallo weren't there. If somebody wants to do the salary math and debunk all of the following because if they'd waited to sign Melo they couldn't have brought in Tyson or Kidd, I'm willing to accept the argument is moot. But my memory of that time is that wasn't the case, and it was pretty clear the Knicks could have just waited to sign Melo because he wasn't going anywhere. Both Melo and the Knicks just got impatient.

I also don't remember if he already had the NTC on his Denver contract or that came with the Knicks re-up.


But remember I'm a Melo fan, and at this time was rooting for him as hard as I've rooted for any player in my life including Pippen in his year without Jordan and Iverson in his series against the Lakers. I always loved the underdog, so part of the trade spoke to me in that it was still in some ways Melo against the world.

I just don't recall it being a thing where if the Knicks didn't trade for him in the winter, they wouldn't have got him in the summer. I guess an easy counter to that is this Paul George thing, where he was hellbent on going to Los Angeles until he wasn't, but Melo didn't have that year to think about nor was his relationship with George Karl good at all.


Their Top 8 by total minutes was J.R., Melo, Felton, Tyson Chandler, (an admittedly pretty dope remix of) J-Kidd, Steve Novak (this dude, in THIS NBA? shit. a half-decade too soon), already 35 years old Prigioni and a young Shumpert.

I'd love to have relied less heavily on Novak to spark the offense with spot up shots and have someone like Gallo creating for himself, and love to not play Prigioni and Chris Copeland 100+ games combined 'cause I can get at least 60 out of Wilson Chandler.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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Cenario
Member since Aug 24th 2005
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140. "so denver got better and so did the knicks."
In response to Reply # 117


  

          

No one got fleeced.

Knicks got the 2 best players in the trade and one of the best scorers in the league at the cost of their depth.

Denver had a lot of depth and no elite scorer.

Both got what they wanted, but in the end the knicks got the 2 best players in the deal.

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
32199 posts
Thu Jul-19-18 03:06 PM

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101. "for his Bird rights"
In response to Reply # 76
Thu Jul-19-18 03:07 PM by cgonz00cc

  

          

and then they make his contract the last bit of business next summer

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

  

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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
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Wed Jul-18-18 01:15 PM

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70. "This is the best deal for the Spurs."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Realistically, they weren't trading Kawhi to the West. Boston had some assets of course but probably didn't really want to deal any of them. Philly - well, a cost controlled rookie contract like Fultz is great to have (Ingram too!) but he forgot how to shoot, so that was that.

Getting an all star, a prospect, and a pick for a guy who played 9 games is about as good as it's gonna get.

But damn, I feel for Demar. Not THAT much as he's going to play for one of the best coaches ever but he really wanted to be a Raptor, and that means something.

------------------------------
'19-'20 LA Lakers

James. Davis. Kuzma. Howard. Rondo. Caldwell-Pope. Green. Cook. Bradley. McGee. Dudley. Caruso...

  

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Dstl1
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Wed Jul-18-18 01:24 PM

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72. "plus he and Lowry were legit best friends.."
In response to Reply # 70


          

.

...cleaned up my act, made a few violent songs...but, they wack like Glen Rice with New Balance on - Sean Price

  

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LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
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Wed Jul-18-18 02:21 PM

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75. "Good sources are reporting no one was offering anything of substance"
In response to Reply # 70


  

          

Philly wouldn’t even include Fultz, Boston wouldn’t even include Jaylen Brown...that tells you strongly Kawhi’s camp is about coming here. SA knew they would get peanuts the longer they waited and they still want to compete right now (Pop is in his final arch) so they moved for a proven all-star player.

Wouldn’t surprise me at all if Kawhi gets dealt for peanuts at the trade deadline and Toronto starts rebuilding with Demar’s contract off the books.

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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adg87
Member since Jun 22nd 2003
5289 posts
Thu Jul-19-18 11:24 AM

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94. "this Fultz love....."
In response to Reply # 75
Thu Jul-19-18 11:25 AM by adg87

  

          

Man it's disturbing. I'm all for not being down on him, but I would have gambled the house on him and sent his ass packing if I was GM. He showed little enough to me last year, that I wouldn't even be mad if he turned into a nice player after the trade. That being said, now that he's sure to be here next year, he MUST ball out. I'm talking all star consideration ball out.

************************************************************

Nigga, if the shoe fits, then buy the matching purse!" Rass Kass

  

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ThaTruth
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77. "they had limited leverage this was the best deal they were going to get"
In response to Reply # 70


  

          

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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Wed Jul-18-18 08:10 PM

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90. "no question, once toronto got involved, it was a wrap"
In response to Reply # 70


  

          

even if the sixers were willing to move fultz and the lakers were willing to move ball or kuzma, this is a better deal. once toronto got involved it was a wrap. i just don't get what they are doing here. this seems like an ownership decision more than a management decision. they have a sharp GM who likely understands that this is a bad deal long term.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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Wed Jul-18-18 03:07 PM

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79. "Expected, once Toronto was in the mix LAL and PHI were out"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

As soon as the Raptors rumors started I figured this would happened and two days ago a friend who is pretty plugged confirmed it.

Makes sense for the Spurs for sure. I don't get it for Toronto. At first glance I thought maybe a cap dump and some outlets are running with that angle. I guess they do set up nicely to be commitment-free pretty soon here but so what? Do they think they will out-woo franchises with more talent in place, better markets or both? LAL, PHI, IND, NYK, LAC, etc all set up pretty going forward, you know Miami is due to make moves also. Also how fucked up is it that they finally had a star that didn't wait to bail on them and they traded his ass for a risky asset/potential rental?

Spurs get bailed out here. They had to move Leonard between now and the deadline, realistically before the start of the season. They get an all-star back and one under contract for three seasons. Poetl is a nice throw-in, hasn't done much but was still a lotto pick two years ago. The pick sounds like it's fairly likely to confer as two seconds in 2020 or at best be a low first this coming year. But that's just gravy anyway. Buford got himself a nice deal. Unless something unexpected happens, I gotta SMFH at Toronto here.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
14413 posts
Wed Jul-18-18 05:39 PM

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84. "How do they get out from under Lowry's contract?"
In response to Reply # 79


  

          

Firing the COTY
shipping your franchise leader in damn near errything

would point toward a rebuild

except for Lowry's contract

Hard to move on when 1 player is eating up 1/3 of the payroll

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71083 posts
Wed Jul-18-18 07:07 PM

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88. "In two years they will have about 10M in committed salary"
In response to Reply # 84


  

          

Lowry I wouldn't worry about, I bet his deal is dumpable if it comes to that. Basically they had a high payroll and average expectations. Much like the Clippers, the first move will only trigger a series of moves to blow the team up. Anyone thinking they got rid of a top 20-30 guy for a top 5-10 guy is fooling themselves.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
40760 posts
Wed Jul-18-18 05:36 PM

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83. "I need to see him play this year, and embrace his time there"
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Jul-18-18 05:38 PM by Cold Truth

  

          

If he sits out this year too, holds the Raptors hostage or what have you, hard pass.

I get not wanting to play for SA any longer, and having a desired destination. If anything, he got one major part of his request fulfilled, and as a fan, I'd like to see him showcase himself and show that he's still the same guy.

I can't see any scenario where it's reasonable to trade for him or sign him to a max deal, or anything close, if he doesn't show the goods. I don't care what Chris Carter says.

If he doesn't show up and play for TDot, he's going to kill his value next summer IMO.

Granted, they showed themselves to be an untrustworthy, disloyal organization, and it's not like I expect him to give them anything more than the rental they traded for, but as a fan of the team he supposedly wants to play for... gotta see the goods.

  

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Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
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Thu Jul-19-18 06:09 AM

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91. "^^^^"
In response to Reply # 83


  

          

>If he sits out this year too, holds the Raptors hostage or
>what have you, hard pass.
>
>I get not wanting to play for SA any longer, and having a
>desired destination. If anything, he got one major part of his
>request fulfilled, and as a fan, I'd like to see him showcase
>himself and show that he's still the same guy.
>
>I can't see any scenario where it's reasonable to trade for
>him or sign him to a max deal, or anything close, if he
>doesn't show the goods. I don't care what Chris Carter says.
>
>If he doesn't show up and play for TDot, he's going to kill
>his value next summer IMO.
>
>Granted, they showed themselves to be an untrustworthy,
>disloyal organization, and it's not like I expect him to give
>them anything more than the rental they traded for, but as a
>fan of the team he supposedly wants to play for... gotta see
>the goods.

  

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electricflower
Member since Sep 18th 2003
1720 posts
Wed Jul-18-18 06:40 PM

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85. "RE: WOW!!! Raptors/Spurs finalizing deal for Kawhi...Derozan going back"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

all bc of the word lebronto,

numbers look crooked like king kong shook it - jdilla

  

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Rjcc
Charter member
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87. "it seems to me like Toronto would accept a price the spurs might not"
In response to Reply # 0


          

like, Ingram & Hart and that's basically it

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71083 posts
Wed Jul-18-18 07:08 PM

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89. "I thought about that but if they were gonna flip him, why bother w/this?"
In response to Reply # 87


  

          

They could have traded Derozan for futures and expiring contracts without any issue.

Had they been the ones receiving a pick and a prospect rather than giving it, OK, I'd be with you. Acquire assets in one deal, flip the major one in another to get even more. But that isn't what happened.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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Vex_id
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Thu Jul-19-18 08:51 AM

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92. "only reason to bother w/ this is if they wanted to part ways anyway"
In response to Reply # 89


          

w/ Derozan. His trade value was good - but not on par with Kawhi. They also know that they can perhaps set up a bidding war of future assets w/ Clips/Lakers - and they have no qualms about trading to the West (like Pop did).

I think Toronto is initially going to try to sell Kawhi on Toronto and see how the first quarter or two of the season play out. If it's clear his exit is imminent - they may push for a deal in Dec./Jan. to being their rebuilding and resetting of identity.

-->

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52532 posts
Thu Jul-19-18 12:52 PM

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98. "Why are y'all acting like Derozon is a blue chip? He's NOT. "
In response to Reply # 89


  

          


He's a FINE, joyous player and is having an excellent
career. But he's a wild overachiever who played with
the best coach in basketball. He's the 3rd best player on a championship-caliber team, probably. You might not even get a
lottery pick for Derozan in a trade.

Toronto needed to try and take a RISK. I feel sorry for
Derozan, think being lied to is shitty, but definitely
get why they made the move. Raptors needed to make a splash,
to shake things up.

  

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Rjcc
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99. "idk who takes derozan"
In response to Reply # 89


          

SA was in a bind

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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Warren Coolidge
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Fri Jul-20-18 07:50 PM

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108. "naw....."
In response to Reply # 87


  

          

they probably would take that trade..

but the Lakers honestly shouldn't do that..


You can keep both Ingram and Hart and add a couple of other star players over the next couple of years without trading anyone...

You have a solid group of 22 and under players in Ball, Hart, Ingram, Kuzma, Svi, Wagner, Zubac…


Lebron James has literally never played on a team with this many talented guys this young...

The potential of this working......even in the short term of 2 years if you add another all star in this next offseason...

but the best cast scenario for this working is way to good not to at least try for a season..... then adjust as needed without losing any young talent

  

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Warren Coolidge
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Fri Jul-20-18 07:53 PM

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109. "This could be a win-win for both guys...."
In response to Reply # 108


  

          

Kawhi has options, but he gets a season with a team that has some talent....it's definitely an upgrade for Toronto...

if he likes it he can stay..if not he can leave...



DeRozan goes to a team that really doen't need him to be a volume chunker….. This may really put him in a spot where he's playing to his strengths.....

  

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Dstl1
Charter member
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Thu Jul-19-18 09:32 AM

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93. "lol.."
In response to Reply # 0


          

https://twitter.com/AthleteTweetsO/status/1019949948891287552

...cleaned up my act, made a few violent songs...but, they wack like Glen Rice with New Balance on - Sean Price

  

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
42253 posts
Thu Jul-19-18 11:32 AM

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95. "That's awesome. Stealing this."
In response to Reply # 93


  

          

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

  

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Dstl1
Charter member
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Thu Jul-19-18 12:35 PM

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97. "the way he pushed dude to the floor while..."
In response to Reply # 95


          

he was scurrying to pick up the money...lol

...cleaned up my act, made a few violent songs...but, they wack like Glen Rice with New Balance on - Sean Price

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
14413 posts
Fri Jul-20-18 03:53 PM

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103. "Ujiri apologizes to Derozan...sorry...you misunderstood me."
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Jul-20-18 03:54 PM by bentagain

  

          

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/24150340/toronto-raptors-president-masai-ujiri-apologizes-miscommunication-demar-derozan

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52532 posts
Fri Jul-20-18 05:36 PM

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105. "LMAO!!! Black GM has to apologize, OF COURSE. "
In response to Reply # 103


  

          

>http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/24150340/toronto-raptors-president-masai-ujiri-apologizes-miscommunication-demar-derozan

I just can't.

White front offices been manipulating and lying since
the beginning of time

But Njiri has to fucking apologize

  

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TheRealBillyOcean
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107. "I'd like to agree with your premise... BUT"
In response to Reply # 105


  

          

Masai also fired Dwane Casey.

So needless to say I'm looking at him skeptically.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52532 posts
Fri Jul-20-18 09:54 PM

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111. "Are you on drugs? "
In response to Reply # 107


  

          

>Masai also fired Dwane Casey.
>
>So needless to say I'm looking at him skeptically.

Do you think Masai has zero pressure from above?

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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TheRealBillyOcean
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119. "No doubt. But I also believe he's been wanting to get rid of..."
In response to Reply # 111


  

          

Casey for a minute now. And there are reports backing up as such. Also that shit about him screaming on Casey after Game 3..... Nah B. I don't like that.

There aren't many GM's coming down screaming on coaches like that.

I'm lukewarm on Masai at best.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52532 posts
Sat Jul-21-18 03:44 PM

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121. "Right, and even fewer apologizing for making a GOOD trade. "
In response to Reply # 119


  

          


>There aren't many GM's coming down screaming on coaches like
>that.
>
>I'm lukewarm on Masai at best.

GMs been screaming on people since the beginning
of time, not even a debate

How many apologizing publically?

Stick up for black people, please, thanks


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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TheRealBillyOcean
Charter member
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Sat Jul-21-18 07:36 PM

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128. "I’m sticking up for Dwane Casey. Keep up."
In response to Reply # 121


  

          

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

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Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
130071 posts
Sat Jul-21-18 06:29 PM

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125. "LMAO. man.... "
In response to Reply # 103


  

          

in any other sitch I'd be optimistic about a GOAT coming to the team, even on rental

but this is just a mess. Toronto really gotta put up a lot to get out of this, fuck the business reasons

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
21925 posts
Fri Jul-20-18 05:42 PM

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106. "yeesh. grand slam for toronto. masai is a gawd."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

got out from under derozan's money (turns 29 next month, is owed a ton a bread, and evaporates into thanos dust in critical postseason moments, perfect time to move on from him) without sacrificing any of their key youngsters (van vleet, OG, siakam, wright) in the process

improved *dramatically* in the short term on a team that had clearly run aground and hit its ceiling (this part's being underemphasized, they're prolly the east favorite right now)

got a decent amount of time to sell kawhi on their city and culture

and gave themselves the flexibility to pivot to rebuild mode a year early if things don't work out.

and can still flip kawhi in february if desired.

stellar work. A+. all the smart bloggers/analysts out there seem to grasp this.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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theeraser
Member since Feb 11th 2007
7197 posts
Fri Jul-20-18 09:40 PM

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110. "A++ by Masai, one of best GMs in the league"
In response to Reply # 106


          

He has set things up so his team has a legit shot at winning the East, BUT if they're not true contenders they can easily blow things up and go full tank, don't have a bunch of shitty contracts going forward. Very very hard to give your team that kind of optionality.

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52532 posts
Fri Jul-20-18 09:55 PM

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112. "^^LAWWWD. I'm in this WHOLE POST THINKING I'M ON MARS"
In response to Reply # 106


  

          


LIke "Is ANYONE in here not a Trump/Klan Member or a total
imbecile?"

This was a GREAT move.



----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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Castro
Charter member
48679 posts
Fri Jul-20-18 11:19 PM

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113. "#15"
In response to Reply # 112


  

          

------------------
One Hundred.

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52532 posts
Sat Jul-21-18 09:44 AM

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115. "Cool. Kinda buried between mountains of nonsense posts, but thanks"
In response to Reply # 113


  

          

  

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dgonsh
Member since Aug 14th 2002
10632 posts
Sat Jul-21-18 06:42 PM

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126. "NOT ON MARS. Those who know (in toronto), know. "
In response to Reply # 112


  

          

I was shocked to read most of the posts in this thread. I couldn't believe all the people who think this was a bad BASKETBALL move from Masai for the raps. Toronto/Canada is BITTER about this trade for 3 reasons:

1. DeMar repped for the city for 9 years. Up for a max deal, never even took a meeting with any other teams. In Canada, it is so rare for homegrown talent to WANT to stay. He famously tweeted "don't worry, i got this" when bosh left for Miami.

2. Masai clearly mislead DeMar barely a week ago (and as stated above, apologized to DeMar for the miscommunication in his first statement at the presser, which is crazy(!) given they should be celebrating KAWHI coming to fucking Canada, with or without his blessing. But it was a sobfest for hurting DeMar's feelings.

3. Toronto/Canada fairweather do NOT know Kawhi and have like never even seen Kawhi play. I'm serious. We don't get a lot of Spurs games out east unless they're playing the raptors. Couple that with the bandwagon fans only watching the Raps in the last year or two, most recently while Kawhi was not even playing, they honestly do not know who Kawhi Leonard is. I've heard it from countless people IRL and on social media since the deal went down. "I dont know much about Kawhi, but fuck masai for how he did DeMar". and that's really all there is to it. They don't know.

When Alex Anthopoulous traded Brett Lawrie and some prospects for an MVP candidate controllable Josh Donaldson, toronto fairweathers literally were pissed! they had no idea who josh donaldson was. It was shocking to me as a baseball fan that people had no idea. Then he plays 2 weeks in toronto in 2014 and the fans are all buying jerseys and he wins mvp.

This deal is a STEAL for Masai. I love DeMar. I am mad that he was mislead. I empathize with his family situation and his open struggle with depression. This CANNOT be easy for him. BUT, K.I.M. Go play for the greatest Head Coach of all time and be a beast in the West. We will love and honour you in Canada forever. Kawhi is a once in a generation talent that now plays for Canada's only team. Danny fucking Green is the player Toronto needed all of last year and he gets thrown the fuck in!

This is a win/win either way for the Raps. If this fails and Kawhi never reclaims his glory (in Toronto at least), then you move him for assets. You have a Bench Mob young core that are coming into their own and you build on that. Alternatively, IF the raps had gone status quo with the same team, their tv ratings for the regular season would have sucked, cause again, everyone would be saying "thats nice. make it to ECF or Finals, then ill be interested". Then if they fail again in the playoffs, Masai has to offload Kyle & DeMar next offseason. SO WHY WASTE THIS SEASON. Now we might be an east favourite, maybe Kawhi ends up carrying us to an ECF/Finals , loves the city and fans and decides he's happy here.

Win/win.

********************************************************************




"I *always* quote myself. I'm the only reliable source on *most* subjects" - OKP's First Lady of Knowledge, Janey

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52532 posts
Sat Jul-21-18 07:41 PM

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129. "^This guy once wrote a great review of the arly iPOD. "
In response to Reply # 126


  

          


I bought one because of it.

Sorry, just reminding you that I think of that
whenever I see your username.

But that's a GREAT post re: Raptors, good sir.



----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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dgonsh
Member since Aug 14th 2002
10632 posts
Sun Jul-22-18 12:19 AM

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130. "Hahaha wow, thats hilarious. i forgot about that"
In response to Reply # 129


  

          

i mostly lurk sports and PTP nowadays. I certainly miss High Tech being a reasonable, somewhat-fast-moving place for tech discussion. So glad Apple made a sale off of my 2nd gen iPod review

I kinda went off on a tangent in this Kawhi post. Misspelled "misled" twice in the process. I just find it so shocking that OKP-Sports of all places is coming for Masai's head. I get casual fans in canada not understanding why this deal is win/win for the raps and spurs, but OKP of all places is ripping Masai?! Dude has built a #1 EC team IN CANADA...THE PLACE I LIVE...THE PLACE NO ATHLETE WANTS TO COME TO (until they get traded here, fall in love with a local, have kids, dont want the kids to leave the canadian system, and end up retiring here...

Toronto is a hockey city (something for which I care this___much about), but our actual ball fans are rabid. We have one of the most rabid, engaged, knowledgeable fan bases. Players love it here. DeMar and Kawhi are actually kinda analogous players. Both are notoriously quiet, go-to-work competitors. Toronto is the perfect place for a player who wants to be loved but not bothered. I hope this works out for everyone involved.

********************************************************************




"I *always* quote myself. I'm the only reliable source on *most* subjects" - OKP's First Lady of Knowledge, Janey

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
82950 posts
Sun Jul-22-18 12:39 AM

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131. "I agree with all of this."
In response to Reply # 126


  

          


>This is a win/win either way for the Raps. If this fails and
>Kawhi never reclaims his glory (in Toronto at least), then you
>move him for assets. You have a Bench Mob young core that are
>coming into their own and you build on that. Alternatively, IF
>the raps had gone status quo with the same team, their tv
>ratings for the regular season would have sucked, cause again,
>everyone would be saying "thats nice. make it to ECF or
>Finals, then ill be interested". Then if they fail again in
>the playoffs, Masai has to offload Kyle & DeMar next
>offseason. SO WHY WASTE THIS SEASON. Now we might be an east
>favourite, maybe Kawhi ends up carrying us to an ECF/Finals ,
>loves the city and fans and decides he's happy here.
>
>Win/win.

It's obviously less than ideal for the top three reasons if Kawhi never settles in/never works for Toronto/never plays, but even if that happens, (a) the rebuild was coming, and (b) you could say you tried *something.* Best case scenario, you convince a Finals MVP to stay and help run the East.

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

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cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
32199 posts
Sat Jul-21-18 12:30 PM

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116. "east favorite after upgrading their best player but not adding to him?"
In response to Reply # 106


  

          

add kawhi TO derozan and i would agree

but who guards Hayward or Horford? The Celtics have the 4 next best players after Kawhi (Kyrie, Horford, Hayward, Tatum) and all of those guys can create for others. They will be better than they were, but i dont think thats enough.

Serge, Jonas, and Norman Powell are still making 50 million for the next two years, so they are out of ways to get better. Even at pushing 29, he could still be there in 2-3 years and they could keep selling their arena out during a rolling re-tool. If (when) Kawhi leaves, its full on rebuild time, and I dont think Toronto fans are gonna pay to watch Processing.

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

  

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Cenario
Member since Aug 24th 2005
56791 posts
Sat Jul-21-18 01:37 PM

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118. "Right if they looking to a rebuild, this not how to do it."
In response to Reply # 116


  

          

Would they get more for derozoan or a kahwi rental? My guess is derozan.

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52532 posts
Sat Jul-21-18 03:08 PM

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120. "LMAO. Kawhi is an all-world, Finals MVP, you imbecile. "
In response to Reply # 116


  

          


You take that risk, because Kawhi can be the
best player on a title team.

Derozan can be the 3rd best player on a title team.

So ridding yourself of a really great guy, good
player (Derozon) for an OPPORTUNITY at Kawhi?
Do it.

And if not, you have the big contract off the book,
are close to having other bigger contracts off the
book.

It's giving it another good run before rebuilding.

It's genius.

  

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cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
32199 posts
Sat Jul-21-18 04:35 PM

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122. "too bad they dont have a #2 or #3 for a title team"
In response to Reply # 120


  

          

good on Kyle Lowry for overclocking beyond his theoretical ceiling, but to me Toronto still doesn't have even a EC championship roster with Kawhi, Derozan, Bron or anyone as long as Lowry and Ibaka round out the "big" 3.

Also, the whole you:casey:derozan:::vex:bron:wade thing is so bland and transparent

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
21925 posts
Sat Jul-21-18 04:51 PM

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123. "yup."
In response to Reply # 120


  

          

demar's fine, but he is about to be 30, is an inefficient midrange scorer and a weak defender, and this team had clearly maxed its potential and gone as far as it were going to go with him as their best and highest paid player.

he's an all star, but he's an east all star. there's a difference. i doubt he makes it out west. george didn't even make it last year and he's a better player.

i think the disconnect is that people are looking at demar and his contract as an asset. ie "they could/should have gotten more". imo it was a burden to shed. he's going to begin to decline soon, given his recent playoff performances he's prolly already being paid more than he's worth, and it's not like he's going to be looking to give any discounts on his next deal. his production vs salary are going to be completely out of whack sooner than later. great time to move on.

i figured they'd try to move him. only surprise for me was they didn't have to attach OG or siakam to do it. that honestly shocked me. that alone is a coup.

the 1st will convey next year. so mid or late 20s. big whoop. that and poeltl were low on their asset totem pole, keeping those other guys was key.

smart GMs know when to cut bait. they also know that there are shades of grey between full rebuild and full win-now, and that it's possible to transition between the two over the course of several offseasons.

sure they still have other contracts to move if they do decide to pivot to a full rebuild. but so what. that's like saying you shouldn't quit smoking because you also have other bad habits. so? smoking is the worst habit, why not start there.

that team as constructed really had one more run left in it. now they can do it with a better roster, and they increased their long term flexibility. and who knows, if they make the finals maybe he stays. and they're still in a good space even if he doesn't.

A+ from me.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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Cenario
Member since Aug 24th 2005
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Sat Jul-21-18 05:07 PM

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124. "Yup, Knicks been doing it for the last decade"
In response to Reply # 123


  

          

>smart GMs know when to cut bait. they also know that there are shades of grey between full rebuild and full win-now, and that it's possible to transition between the two over the course of several offseasons.

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
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Sun Jul-22-18 11:02 AM

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132. "DD would be the same age at the end of his deal as Lowry today"
In response to Reply # 123


  

          

and Lowry himself has $90M coming still. Derozan was the best value of all their big contracts, and they have a bunch.

i understand what youre saying but why would Kawhi buy into Jonas/Lowry/Ibaka/Powell/Miles hamstringing them for like 90M(!) in 19-20, and then hoping you get lucky to make a "Blake to the Pistons" type trade for a star in his 20s with team control?

I honestly think the Raps un-sold a lot of future tickets with this trade. They were selling out their arena being "good, not great" and for a time at least displaced the Leafs as Toronto's favorite sports team. I dont see the logic on why they couldnt just continue to make money and be good until their contracts that are *actually* terrible come off naturally? Two years from now Derozan would only be 30 with an injury history that thus far is excellent, the bench that you like so much would be maturing, and they would drop like $90M off the payroll just by flipping days on the calendar.



WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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Sun Jul-22-18 04:49 PM

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133. "sorry fam. we just disagree. "
In response to Reply # 132


  

          

this was a great move for toronto, short and long term.

basically, if they don't make the finals this year then they need to pivot to a rebuild. this move increases their finals odds *and* makes the pivot easier.

home run.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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134. "^Lock and Archive."
In response to Reply # 133


  

          


>basically, if they don't make the finals this year then they
>need to pivot to a rebuild. this move increases their finals
>odds *and* makes the pivot easier.
>
>home run.

There is no way to dispute this.

It gets them an actual superstar RIGHT TODAY.

It gets the rebuilding for the future sooner.


There's nothing else to discuss.

  

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Cenario
Member since Aug 24th 2005
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Mon Jul-23-18 09:19 AM

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135. "so hold on, they don't make the finals and pivot to a rebuild "
In response to Reply # 133


  

          

by losing derozan/kahwi for nothing?

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Mon Jul-23-18 11:04 AM

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136. "Kawhi is a generational, franchise-talent. "
In response to Reply # 135


  

          


They got a guy who has *already* been the center of
a championship team. (this before his prime)

And they had to give up a guy they *know* they cannot
build anything with AND got Danny Green.

If it doesn't work? Fine. They were going to rebuild
soon anyway.

It's a genius move.

  

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Cenario
Member since Aug 24th 2005
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Mon Jul-23-18 02:03 PM

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141. "The 'they are gonna rebuild anyway' copout is dumb"
In response to Reply # 136


  

          

one thing this league proves is whatever you doing you gotta go all-in.

If the plan is to rebuild, go all in. If the plan is to be as competitive as possible...do that.

What seems very likely is that kahwi will make toronto very competitive this season 50+ wins 2nd seed in the east. Bc they are playing well he won't get traded at the deadline. They lose to boston in ECF. He bounces in the offseason...as far as the rebuild is concerned the above likely scenario is an L.

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Mon Jul-23-18 02:46 PM

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142. "That's the thing: the Kawhi play *also* gets you to rebuild faster. "
In response to Reply # 141


  

          



This trade pulls of the remarkable double coup of
making the dumb far better immediately and far easier
to hit a complete reset.

I'm not sure what's so difficult for you all to understand.


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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Cenario
Member since Aug 24th 2005
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Mon Jul-23-18 03:26 PM

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146. "a faster rebuild woulda been trading derozan for young players, cap "
In response to Reply # 142


  

          

space and/or draft picks.

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Mon Jul-23-18 07:22 PM

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152. "You're not even getting Kyle Kuzma for Demar Derozan"
In response to Reply # 146


  

          


Not sure why you guys think Derozan is going to
command some future All-Star

LOL

He's a fine player, but no one would give up
anything of value for him


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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Cenario
Member since Aug 24th 2005
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Mon Jul-23-18 10:22 PM

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153. "I thought the spurs just gave up a generational talent for him"
In response to Reply # 152


  

          

Make up your mind lol

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
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Mon Jul-23-18 10:27 PM

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155. "LMAO"
In response to Reply # 153


  

          

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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156. "EXACTLY why it's a Titanic victory for Toronto, Einstein. "
In response to Reply # 153


  

          

  

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Cenario
Member since Aug 24th 2005
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160. "Uh huh"
In response to Reply # 156


  

          

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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dgonsh
Member since Aug 14th 2002
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Mon Jul-23-18 10:47 PM

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157. "You fumbled into the correct point you didn't realize you were making"
In response to Reply # 153


  

          

Masai found SA in a position that no one they were interested in shipping Kawhi to was willing to give up what SA wanted. So the Raps became the only game in town. Masai knew DeMar was on a time limit and they weren't going to get anything of significant future value for him given his contract. SA was about to get stuck with a generational player with no interest in playing for them. They got an All Star workhorse. The Raptors got Kawhi the fresh start/re-start he was craving. He may not be happy about it, but he knows he needs to ball to reclaim his status.

Brilliant move by Masai.

********************************************************************




"I *always* quote myself. I'm the only reliable source on *most* subjects" - OKP's First Lady of Knowledge, Janey

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Mon Jul-23-18 11:39 PM

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158. "^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^"
In response to Reply # 157
Mon Jul-23-18 11:42 PM by Orbit_Established

  

          


A healthy Kawhi is probably the best player to ever
play for Toronto.

Yes, even better than Vince in his prime,
which is saying A LOT.

(Carter has really had a glorious career, far
better than people realize)

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
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Mon Jul-23-18 11:35 AM

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137. "RE: improved *dramatically*"
In response to Reply # 106
Mon Jul-23-18 11:36 AM by bentagain

  

          

based on...what?

we still don't know if Kawhi is the same player pre-injury

haven't seen him play

have you?

did Ujiri?

You're making the assumption that TOR got the MVP final Kawhi in this trade

that has yet to be seen

we also don't know if Kawhi is even going to play in TOR

If Pop couldn't reel Kawhi back into the team...that's a YUGE ask for a rookie HC IMO

to make a definitive statement like...improved dramatically makes alot of assumptions and overlooks alot of issues

you're spinning this to the absolute positive

it could go the other way...like all the way.

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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Mon Jul-23-18 12:35 PM

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138. "of course. we're all making assumptions."
In response to Reply # 137


  

          

everyone here is assuming there's little / no chance he'll resign in toronto next summer. no one knows for sure. no one here has talked to him.

i think it's a reasonable assumption that if he's healthy he'll be the same player he was in 16-17, or a reasonable facsimile.

is it a sure thing? of course not. masai's taking a gamble. a worthy one imo. they'd maxed out. just running it back would've been silly.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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143. "Even if he isn't, they are closer to rebuilding. It's a genius move. "
In response to Reply # 137


  

          


You take the risk for a generational talent

AND

If he's not quite right, you're closer to being
able to hit reset on the whole thing

With Derozan you're in no man's land for the next
x seasons

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
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Mon Jul-23-18 02:56 PM

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144. "...or you could trade Derozan for pieces to rebuild..."
In response to Reply # 143


  

          

Trading Derozan and being left with nothing after the season =/= genius.

Trading Derozan for Kawhi conflicts with the idea of rebuilding

Congrats on pushing off the inevitable for a year

and being left with less bullets in the clip when you do rebuild

GENIUS!!!

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Mon Jul-23-18 03:05 PM

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145. "LMAO. Why do y'all think you're getting blue chip for Derozan?"
In response to Reply # 144


  

          


He's not even Kevin Love good, and Love is quintessential
"third best player on a championship team" good.

Hell, most competitive teams would rather have Iggy
right today than Derozan.

Derozan is a FINE player and is having an excellent career,
and good for him.

But the idea that you can trade him and get all kinds
of high picks? LMAO! From who?


>Trading Derozan and being left with nothing after the season
>=/= genius.
>
>Trading Derozan for Kawhi conflicts with the idea of
>rebuilding
>
>Congrats on pushing off the inevitable for a year
>
>and being left with less bullets in the clip when you do
>rebuild
>
>GENIUS!!!


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
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Mon Jul-23-18 04:56 PM

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149. "RE: LMAO. Why do YOU think they aren't in rebuild mode right now?"
In response to Reply # 145


  

          

Franchise's winningest coach, coming off of a season high in Ws and #1 seed

FYAHED!!!

Franchise's career leader in dayum near every category

DEUCES!!!

They are in rebuild mode, today

being so, trading away an asset and putting yourself in position to have absolutely nothing to show for it after 1 year

= doing it wrong.

I don't expect Bron or Giannis back for DD, so I don't understand where you jump all the way to blue chip

BUT

There are more than a couple franchises that have stockpiled assets for this offseason and next

as exhibited in all of the trade rumors and packages we withstood for the last month or so

You acquire those assets where you can

Whatever they might be

and then continue to improve your war chest for when it is time to make a move

the trade for Kawhi just delays the inevitable, which you seem to agree with

AND puts you in a situation where you didn't get anything back for DD at season's end

it's really not hard to understand...but I'm sure you will try your hardest.

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Mon Jul-23-18 07:21 PM

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151. "NO trade for Derozon BETTER than the CHANCE to have Kawhi"
In response to Reply # 149


  

          


They are all risks

Raptors took the smartest one

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
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Tue Jul-24-18 11:12 AM

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164. "So when Ujiri gets fired, you'll spare us the plea cops...right?"
In response to Reply # 151


  

          

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Tue Jul-24-18 06:41 PM

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166. "Uh. He's black, bro. He's gonna get fired anyway. "
In response to Reply # 164


  

          


That's kinda what being black means

You get the blame, and almost none of the credit.

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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Thu Jun-13-19 10:46 PM

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196. "smfh."
In response to Reply # 106


  

          

>got out from under derozan's money (turns 29 next month, is
>owed a ton a bread, and evaporates into thanos dust in
>critical postseason moments, perfect time to move on from him)
>without sacrificing any of their key youngsters (van vleet,
>OG, siakam, wright) in the process
>
>improved *dramatically* in the short term on a team that had
>clearly run aground and hit its ceiling (this part's being
>underemphasized, they're prolly the east favorite right now)
>
>got a decent amount of time to sell kawhi on their city and
>culture
>
>and gave themselves the flexibility to pivot to rebuild mode a
>year early if things don't work out.
>
>and can still flip kawhi in february if desired.
>
>stellar work. A+. all the smart bloggers/analysts out there
>seem to grasp this.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
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Fri Jun-14-19 08:28 AM

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198. "man, you totally nailed it"
In response to Reply # 196


  

          

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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200. "I'm saying tho, doc. shit wasn't even rocket science. "
In response to Reply # 198


  

          

blind man could see it.

some of these cats _really_ like demar fkn derozan, i guess. lolz.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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Mon Jul-23-18 01:24 PM

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139. "best case scenario for kawhi and the raptors:"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

The best-case scenario for Kawhi Leonard and the Raptors
Jul 22, 2018
Andre Snellings
ESPN

Just how good will the Toronto Raptors be with Kawhi Leonard? That question is loaded with uncertainty given Leonard's still unknown health status and motivation level in Toronto. He reportedly has a desire to play in Los Angeles, and the Boston Celtics will be a powerful force in the Eastern Conference next season.

But make no mistake: If Leonard is locked in and returns to his 2016-17 form, the Raptors should project as favorites to make the Finals and be a legitimate threat to challenge the Golden State Warriors.

Let's look at the best-case scenario for this team.

Swapping out DeRozan for Leonard

The Raptors brought in Leonard in exchange for a package that included leading scorer and franchise player DeMar DeRozan. DeRozan has been chosen to the All-NBA team in each of the past two seasons, including a second-team nod last year that corresponded with his eighth-place finish in MVP voting. However, there are reasons to believe that DeRozan's accolades actually outpace his on-court impact.

While DeRozan has been Toronto's leading scorer in each of the past five seasons, the Raptors have actually outscored their opponents by a larger margin with him on the bench.

DeRozan's On/Off Net Rating
SEASON | NET RATING ON | NET RATING OFF | DIFFERENCE
2013-14 | 3.4 | 3.6 | 0.2
2014-15 | 2.6 | 3.9 | 1.3
2015-16 | 3.0 | 7.6 | 4.6
2016-17 | 3.3 | 8.3 | 5.0
2017-18 | 6.9 | 9.2 | 2.3
Source: NBA.com/Stats

This doesn't necessarily mean that the Raptors are better without DeRozan, but it does suggest that he isn't the one driving team success the way his accolades suggest. If we look closer at the performance of the Raptors' offense and defense with and without DeRozan over the past three years, we get a clearer view of his impact:

DeRozan's Offensive And Defensive Impact
SEASON | ORTG ON | DRTG ON | ORTG OFF | DRTG OFF
2013-14 | 105.9 | 102.4 | 105.8 | 102.1
2014-15 | 106.5 | 103.9 | 109.8 | 105.9
2015-16 | 107.1 | 104.1 | 106.7 | 99.2
2016-17 | 110.2 | 107.0 | 108.9 | 100.7
2017-18 | 112.2 | 105.4 | 108.1 | 98.9
Average | 108.4 | 104.6 | 107.9 | 101.4
Source: NBA.com/Stats

While Toronto's offense performed slightly better with DeRozan on the court, the defense has been significantly more effective with DeRozan on the bench over that span. And there's reason to believe that difference is more attributable to DeRozan's defensive abilities than just the strength of the Raptors' bench and quality of lineups faced.

ESPN's real plus-minus (RPM) -- which estimates on-court impact by adjusting for the quality of teammates and opponents -- shows that Raptors point guard Kyle Lowry has actually been noticeably more impactful over the past three years, while DeRozan largely gives up his positive offensive contributions on the defensive end.

Lowry And DeRozan RPM (And Rank)
SEASON | LOWRY | DEROZAN
2015-16 | 6.82 (7) | -0.14 (157)
2016-17 | 5.88 (10) | 0.17 (137)
2017-18 | 5.18 (9) | 1.66 (67)

DeRozan improved last season on both ends of the court but was still far behind Lowry in terms of on-court impact. So while the Raptors' offense could miss some of DeRozan's contributions, their defense should be significantly better without him, especially with Lowry still on the team.

The Kawhi boost

Leonard was named All-NBA first team in 2015-16 and 2016-17 while finishing top-3 in MVP voting in both seasons. He also won NBA Defensive Player of the Year in 2014-15 and 2015-16.

RPM backs up those accolades:

Leonard's On-Court Impact
SEASON | RPM | ORPM | DRPM | RPM RANK
2014-15 | 7.57 | 2.98 | 4.59 | 5
2015-16 | 8.07 | 4.19 | 3.88 | 5
2017-18 | 7.08 | 5.83 | 1.25 | 5

Leonard has consistently produced strong offensive and defensive impact -- among the very best in the league. If Leonard returns to form with his unparalleled defense and mostly efficient offensive attack, he and Lowry could give the Raptors two players ranking in the top 10 in RPM league-wide. Over the past three seasons, only the Warriors (Stephen Curry and Draymond Green, twice), Houston Rockets (James Harden and Chris Paul in 2017-18) and Oklahoma City Thunder (Russell Westbrook and Kevin Durant in 2015-16) have had teammates rank among the top 10 in RPM in the same season.

How will that look on the court? We know Leonard can shut down opponents. A lineup featuring Lowry, Danny Green, OG Anunoby, Pascal Siakam and a healthy Leonard is probably the favorite for the most terrifying defensive unit in the NBA. So let's compare DeRozan and Leonard offensively.

On average, Leonard in 2016-17 and DeRozan in 2017-18 took the same number of shots per game (17.7) with almost the same number of free throw attempts (7.0 for DeRozan, 7.2 for Leonard) in similar minutes (33.9 MPG for DeRozan, 33.4 MPG for Leonard). Leonard scored more efficiently from every distance, making 52.9 percent of his 2s (vs. DeRozan's 49.3 percent), 38 percent of his 3s (vs. DeRozan's 31.2 percent) and 88.0 percent of his free throws (vs. DeRozan's 82.5 percent).

Leonard has more reliable shooting range, and his physicality also makes him more of a threat at the rim. He draws more defensive attention than DeRozan even without the ball in his hands, which should allow Lowry and the other Raptors creators more space and opportunity to produce.

The Raptors were 59-23 with a scoring margin of plus-7.8 points last season, both marks right behind the Rockets and ahead of the Warriors at the top of the NBA. If all goes well following this trade, they should significantly upgrade their on-court production on both ends of the floor. With Leonard, their best player is now proven in the playoffs and a legitimate MVP-level performer, which should help the Raptors avoid their typical postseason malaise.

The Warriors are still the front-runners. The Celtics are essentially adding Kyrie Irving and Gordon Hayward to a team that was one win away from the Finals. The Rockets remain loaded -- we just saw Houston put Golden State on the ropes with strong defense and efficient, methodical offense.

But if the Raptors get the full Kawhi experience, they are absolutely contenders to do the same and challenge all of those teams for the title.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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Cenario
Member since Aug 24th 2005
56791 posts
Mon Jul-23-18 04:38 PM

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147. "c'mon"
In response to Reply # 139


  

          

>But make no mistake: If Leonard is locked in and returns to his 2016-17 form, the Raptors should project as favorites to make the Finals and be a legitimate threat to challenge the Golden State Warriors.

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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Mon Jul-23-18 04:49 PM

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148. "kawhi leonard is very good at basketball."
In response to Reply # 147


  

          

if (*IF*) he's 16-17 kawhi (top 3 mvp candidate) then toronto's a 60+ win team and prolly top 3 on both ends (last season: 59 wins, #2 offense, #5 defense)

i feel like ppl are completely forgetting
a) how fucking good kawhi leonard is at basketball
b) toronto's entire 17-18 season prior to the lebron sweep

again: BEST CASE SCENARIO, that team's going to be really really fucking good.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
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Mon Jul-23-18 05:21 PM

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150. "if IF was a 5th"
In response to Reply # 148


  

          

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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Cenario
Member since Aug 24th 2005
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154. "They don't beat golden state bruh"
In response to Reply # 148


  

          

Bron on this raptor team doesn't beat golden state.

I don't see how they beat a healthy Boston either.

And we expecting them to gel perfectly year 1??? Smh

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Tue Jul-24-18 01:29 AM

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159. "They may not, but a team that loses under 20 games is a threat. "
In response to Reply # 154
Tue Jul-24-18 01:31 AM by Frank Longo

  

          

Even in the East. Assuming Kawhi can be what he was, that's genuinely doable for them-- they only lost 23 pre-playoffs last year with DeRozan, and peak Kawhi is loads better.

I don't think they can beat Golden State either (and I'm also high on Boston for obvious reasons)... but they'd be considered a competitor, and I also think a 60+ win season and a Finals appearance would give Kawhi a *lot* to think about before he packs his bags. And that's the risk Toronto is willing to take. I dig it.

Plus, all it takes is one key injury for Golden State to be *vulnerable.* Still the favorite, but by less of a margin. Teams are just jockeying for position to exploit that opening. Cuz if you're in the right place and the dominoes fall the right way, that could be a title. And Toronto has a much better chance of snagging that opportunity if it arises with Kawhi than with DeMar.

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

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ThaTruth
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161. "Are we underestimating the Spurs system here? And how much it had..."
In response to Reply # 148


  

          

to do with Kawhi's "greatness"?

I agree that "peak Kawhi", if that indeed does still exist, is light years better defensively than Derozan, but offensively does he really do that much more?

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Tue Jul-24-18 09:03 AM

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162. "Did you see Kawhi pre-injury offensively? He was lights out. "
In response to Reply # 161


  

          

>to do with Kawhi's "greatness"?
>
>I agree that "peak Kawhi", if that indeed does still exist, is
>light years better defensively than Derozan, but offensively
>does he really do that much more?

Yes, he does.

He was basically a more athletic, more efficient
Carmelo. And I'm the biggest Carmelo fan there is.

  

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ThaTruth
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163. "RE: Did you see Kawhi pre-injury offensively? He was lights out. "
In response to Reply # 162


  

          


>Yes, he does.
>
>He was basically a more athletic, more efficient
>Carmelo. And I'm the biggest Carmelo fan there is.


yeah I did, he averaged 25ppg on 48% shooting, 38% from 3 which is pretty damn good. I expect those efficiency numbers to dip in Toronto.

In San Antonio Kawhi did the majority of his damage off of set plays within the Spurs offense. He's not really a guy that can regularly just take over a game offensively, definitely not like a prime Carmelo.

  

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ThaTruth
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175. "Takes my L lol"
In response to Reply # 163


  

          

  

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40thStreetBlack
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165. "Yes."
In response to Reply # 161


  

          

>light years better defensively than Derozan, but offensively
>does he really do that much more?

<------- Ursus PeteAlonsimus

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Wed Jul-25-18 12:17 AM

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170. "This post is the gift that keeps on giving."
In response to Reply # 165


  

          

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

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Rjcc
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169. "um, kawhi is very good at basketball."
In response to Reply # 161


          


www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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Rjcc
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197. "wow. that analysis. the truth telling. the foresight my god."
In response to Reply # 169


          


www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Sat Dec-01-18 11:44 AM

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171. "Spurs are ass. Raptors are not. Popovich gets no blame? "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


Casey was winning with Derozan.

Discuss.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25421927/san-antonio-spurs-roughed-again


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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CyrenYoung
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172. "Pop did his usual and it backfired..."
In response to Reply # 171


  

          

..Leonard's getting his $$$ regardless.

Now he can do it for an org/coach that actually appreciates and values him in the manner that he's comfortable with.

end of story.



*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

  

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Cenario
Member since Aug 24th 2005
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173. "Pop blaming himself...so there's that."
In response to Reply # 171


  

          

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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Sat May-25-19 10:18 PM

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174. "lolz!!!"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

so many Ls. a cavalcade of Ls. terrible takes abound.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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ThaTruth
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Sat May-25-19 10:38 PM

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176. "So was Pop and the Spurs system actually holding Kawhi back?"
In response to Reply # 174


  

          

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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180. "wat."
In response to Reply # 176


  

          

san antonio's system turned him from a decent draft prospect to an all time great and future hall of famer. he won a title and finals MVP, and put up massive numbers in his last full season there.

why would anyone think their system was holding him back?

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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ThaTruth
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182. "No doubt the Spurs developed him, but maybe it got to a point..."
In response to Reply # 180


  

          

where Kawhi felt like he was starting to outgrow the system and wanted to do things differently and Pop wasn’t having.

We’ve seen in these playoffs how deadly Kawhi was in the iso, he would’ve never got that many plays like that in San Antonio.

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Sun May-26-19 08:36 AM

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185. "Bwahaha. Kawhi is not a random nigga from Congo"
In response to Reply # 180


  

          



Why do we selectively attribute excellence to
"systems" and "development??"


Kawhi a talented, smart, hard working nigga who
took the leap

He made a leap the same way many did

Jorn wasn't dominating like that at Carolina,
some niggas just sprout

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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186. "lmao. not sure who "we" is, but ok."
In response to Reply # 185


  

          

>Why do we selectively attribute excellence to
>"systems" and "development??"


yes, the spurs coaching staff, particularly chip engelland and ime udoka, developed kawhi leonard. not sure why that's controversial.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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188. "Cool! So did Mark Jackson "Develop" Steph, Klay, Draymond??"
In response to Reply # 186


  

          


>yes, the spurs coaching staff, particularly chip engelland and
>ime udoka, developed kawhi leonard. not sure why that's
>controversial.

I'm listening


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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189. "of course he did."
In response to Reply # 188


  

          

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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Dstl1
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194. "lol...so simple. he tried to trick you into a place you already were at"
In response to Reply # 189


          

.

...cleaned up my act, made a few violent songs...but, they wack like Glen Rice with New Balance on - Sean Price

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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Sat May-25-19 10:54 PM

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177. "most will be redeemed if kawhi bounces on them"
In response to Reply # 174


  

          

of course they moved a top 20-30 guy for a top 5-10 guy, but what will they have to show for it? if it isn't 1) a title and/or 2) kawhi signed long term, then what?

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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Sun May-26-19 12:05 AM

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178. "nah regardless of what happens going forward it''s already a massive win..."
In response to Reply # 177
Sun May-26-19 12:06 AM by dula dibiasi

  

          

had they stood pat, they don't get past philly or milwaukee. no chance. you go out in round 2, it's an entirely different narrative, you're some loser team that's plateaued, and you're still on the hook for another 2yrs56m more of 30 yr old DeMar.

as it stands their season's already a rousing success. they've already given their incredible devoted rabid fanbase its biggest thrill in franchise history, which is priceless. that basically was like winning a title for them. everyone who was in scotiabank or maple leaf square tonight is gonna remember this day forever. nobody's gonna feel bad about losing to golden state.

and as the incumbent, they still imo have a great shot at resigning kawhi. I'd go so far as to say they're the favorites. and if they were just chasing him in straight UFA, they prolly don't even get an initial meeting. it was 100000% worth the gamble. this move legitimately changed their franchise, in incalculable ways.

there's God, and there's Masai God. praise both.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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Sun May-26-19 12:23 AM

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179. "it paid off, obviously, but that's known now"
In response to Reply # 178


  

          

at the time, for example, when i said it was a "minor upgrade for one year," we had no idea what kawhi we'd get. most guys coming off a lower-body injury don't come back 100% (and I guess he didn't either, but close enough). other people questioned how they treated derozan and if they enter a rebuild they'll think twice about that.

also let's face it if embiid isn't shitting himself and the rim doesn't cooperate, they have another second-round exit.

so great for their management (those were the shittiest takes, calling them weak management) and great for the team/fans, but let's not pretend like this wasn't hella bold with serious flop potential.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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Kira
Member since Nov 14th 2004
28121 posts
Sun May-26-19 12:29 AM

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181. "Can someone check on Skip Bayless?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Make sure he's ok. Skip is somewhere crying mad as shit.

  

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go mack
Member since May 02nd 2008
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Sun May-26-19 08:08 AM

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184. "RE: Can someone check on Skip Bayless?"
In response to Reply # 181


  

          

Lol looked at his twitter. There is no way he believes anything he is spouting concerning Kawhi, just ridiculous

  

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ThaTruth
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183. "or what if Zaza didn't take out Kawhi in '17?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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187. "i almost threw up when that happened. spurs absolutely had a shot"
In response to Reply # 183


  

          

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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PROMO
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190. "what if?"
In response to Reply # 183
Sun May-26-19 07:47 PM by PROMO

  

          

i got nothing against Kawhi but i hope the Dubs WASH Toronto in these finals ONLY so y'all "what if" cats can eat a full bowl of shut up, especially since this Toronto team is a better roster than that Spurs team.

mofos acting like it was a foregone conclusion that the Spurs were gonna upset GS after the FIRST HALF of the FIRST GAME of the WCF.

like the Dubs can't score 20 unanswered in 3 minutes. like the Dubs haven't tricked off a game then came back and won the next four.

GSW had the better team BY FAR and the home court advantage. there was way too much shit to come to be speculating the way cats were in that...AGAIN...one half of one game.

STAND OUT HAND OUTS: http://basquiatwhenipaint.tumblr.com

TWEET ME: @PROMO206

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Mon May-27-19 02:16 AM

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191. "Eliminating the best player in a series is a major "what if"."
In response to Reply # 190


  

          

I'm not sure how you get to "mofos acting like it was a foregone conclusion that the Spurs were gonna upset GS after the FIRST HALF of the FIRST GAME of the WCF."...

...based on the question "what if".

The question "what if" is pretty much the exact opposite of "forgone conclusion".

  

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Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
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Mon May-27-19 09:53 AM

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192. "we sure do a lot of What If scenarios with this Dubs squad"
In response to Reply # 183


  

          

is it a coping mechanism?




Kawhi will get his chance. With a better squad


Let's see what happens


We're gonna dead this shit just like we did that Chris Paul talk yall were flapping your gums about

_______________________________________________
"Ran through enough dope for Castro to build schools in Cuba. Teach ya kids how to read and write. And use the Ruger."

  

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ThaTruth
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Tue May-28-19 09:19 AM

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195. "get your panties out of a bunch, people do that with a almost every..."
In response to Reply # 192
Tue May-28-19 09:20 AM by ThaTruth

  

          

championship team.

What if Draymond doesn't get suspended?

What if Lebron doesn't block Igoudala?

What if the Spurs can get a rebound in 13?

What if Perkins doesn't miss game 7 in 2010?

What if Wade doesn't get all those free throws in 06?

What if "Big Shot" Bob Horry doesn't hit that big shot in 02 against the Kings?


Get over yourself, you can tell when motherfuckers ain't used to winning shit lol.

  

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