Yo.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/24126943/san-antonio-spurs-toronto-raptors-finalizing-deal-involving-kawhi-leonard-demar-derozan

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jesus Christ, being a black coach is so fucking
laughable.

This is a potentially minor upgrade for one year and then they go hurling toward a rebuild. He has an OK situation in Detroit.

>This is a potentially minor upgrade for one year and then
>they go hurling toward a rebuild. He has an OK situation in
>Detroit.

It's the difference between a "third best guy on a chip
team" and an alpha, supremo alpha top 3 MVP candidate.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Spurs gonna be WEIRD next season. the 4th Migo gonna be featured more, I'd bet.

.

if (when) kawhi bolts, they can start the tank. derozen's contract was the biggest obstacle to a full rebuild.

Demar is in his prime and was their best asset to flip for a rebuild. They gave him away for nothing.

Plus a 1st! Smh

they coulda got more for derozan if the plan was a rebuild.

and how they stay employed.

Ujiri, Grunfeld, whatever idiot is in Memphis...

Some of it I figure is ownership not wanting a rebuild and being content with playoff contention, but even within those parameters it can be mind boggling.

even if it's one year it should be a good one..

unless dude refuses to play

In a story posted on his Instagram page on Wednesday morning, Derozan wrote, "Be told one thing & outcome another. Can't trust em. Ain't no loyalty in this game. Sell you out quit for a little bit of nothing...soon you'll understand... Don't disturb..."

Ujiri, do you love me? are you riding?

Remember he posted about depression and mental health issues this year. Tread lightly

to his face he wasn't going to be traded.

But then again, so was Aldridge lol

Methinks that the Raptors really want to blow this team up as Lowry/DeRozan have proven they just don't have enough to come out of the East.

Even with the LeBronkers making the East a kindler, gentler playoffs, you ain't making it past the Celtics the way they are looking.

So...you sell the world that you are making a run at Kwahi...then you can play that you are all butt-hurt when he doesn't take the goo-gobs of money you toss at him but don't REALLY want to part with....BOO-YAH!!! Instant rebuild.

D

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1019567705521655809

.

they might have the inside track on the two seed in the east and they'll be a matchup problem for the sixers. being able to rotate kawhi and green on simmons is tough. i think ben will learn from the celtics series and be ready for good playoff wing defense, but playoff kawhi is another beast altogether.

so the raptors will send them a crap pick next year and still have all their picks when/if the losing starts.

Everyone wins except the Clippers.

If the Raptors don't get through the east, Kawhi leaves and you are way under the cap. If the Raptors don't get through the East with Derozan, you are stuck with Derozan.

Ujiri is definitely a chess player. Interested to see how this plays out.

They gonna showcase Kawhi for half a season and try to trade him for a haul at the deadline.

Wouldn't be surprised to see Lowry head out the door with him (in a separate deal).

Then they gonna hand the keys to OG, Wright and...Jonas? (And whomever they bring back in a trade).

Pop wanna prove he can make a champ out of ANYBODY lol

TOR trades him by season's end

how much longer Popovich is going to coach. He just lost one of the better two way players in the league and he's coaching out in the West with so many killer teams. This upcoming Spurs team is going to be so wildly different; should be a nice challenge to see if the Spurs will make the playoffs next year.

On Kawhi:
That the Celtics didn’t pursue Kawhi more aggressively tells me they’re all but certain he’s LA-bound no matter what. Unlike the Lakers, the Celtics have a war chest of assets...they must have just decided it wasn’t worth it - if there were an opportunity to secure him long term I think this would’ve played out differently and he’d be in Boston. Kyrie fell into their lap, but it’s seemed for about three years now that Ainge is idling in order to haul in a mega talent. Kawhi is that mega talent...

This def makes the East more interesting this year - assuming Kawhi actually plays.

-->

post. I was told the Spurs didn't have the leverage because Kawhi made it known that's where he wanted to go.

I don't think anybody in their right mind would just give away an asset like DeRozan for a 1-year rental. The Spurs probably felt like this was as good of a gift as they were going to get from a proven, ready-made star (though I still think the Lakers offering BI & Lonzo would have much more upside in the long-run).

I just think that the Spurs did this (1) to spite Kawhi and (2) to not appease the Lakers.


-->

At minimum, he's up there.

Not only did he cap his team's potential by paying Jonas and Serge, instead of being patient and spending wisely, he gives away his best asset for nothing.

There is an infinitesimal chance Kawhi stays. So even if you want to rebuild, you're better off trading your All NBA, in his prime, 3 year contract having star for some rebuilding pieces.

It's hard enough to build a team in a city stars don't want to play in, but trading the one guy that did want to stay for nothing is really doubling down on stupid.

If I was a Raps fan I'd be sick

>It's hard enough to build a team in a city stars don't want to play in, but trading the one guy that did want to stay for nothing is really doubling down on stupid.

that's a skill in and of itself

>Not only did he cap his team's potential by paying Jonas and
>Serge

Jonas, the guy I couldn't stop hearing about the Cavs having drafted Tristan Thompson over. ended up getting a TT-style contract and still eating da poo poo. still think that's a wash.

How could he possible be the worst GM in the league!?!?

There are NO stars on that team. None.

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

That isn't a "star."

Love has multiple All-NBA selections too.

He is also no better than the 3rd best player on
a championship team.

I get what you're saying about Ibaka and JV contracts but with the backcourt priced as it is, he couldn't let those guys walk and then go shopping for other big men. Classic hemmed-in situation for management based on the NBA's "overpay for your guys or else!" mentality.

This trade I don't like--basically a cap dump that also cost them two more assets--but I get the sense like the ownership was the one pushing it. This is a drastic move, the type that usually comes from the top-down, especially considering the implications of a total rebuild should Kawhi, predictably, not re-sign

If they lucky

And one of the teams that was trying to get him now will pay up (Bos, Philly, Lakers).

If they wanted him gone so bad?

meanwhile a year later...

It's not his fault he ran into prime Bron repeatedly in the playoffs. He's got one of the toughest jobs in the league: convince people to play in Canada. He's done a damn fine job with the resources available. It just sucks that team turned their back on Demar during these tough times. I want him in Cleveland if Koby gets fired. Grab coach Lieberman or coach Becky or Ettore Messina.

I hate the super team BS but moments like these happen and it goes to show how ruthless this league is. Deals need to max out at four years moving forward since players and teams aren't loyal. Baby dinosaurs should've stuck by Demar and brought him back instead of trading him for a one year rental.

Kwahi barely speaks so his press conference is awkward AF.

I mean, we all assumed Paul George was a rental too, and here we are.

EDIT: well, if he never reports to play, that answers that, LMAO.

.

to go to team in a similar market that had the same record as the Pacers did last year and the Pacers have a brighter future and a better chance at getting to the Finals than OKC.

he went to them and told them he wasn't staying, they traded him. No fuss. As far as all that other speculation...words, words, words.

Uncle Dennis is trending, lmao. Some good memeage being dropped.

If so, who is the one that mentioned his actual name? I ask because I'm certain it wasn't Kawhi.

I know it's a minor point in this whole scenario, but I am curious because everything have been so hush-hush about this.

and his closest adviser. His name has been out there for a while...in all types of stories. He's in the mix when Kawhi's business is getting done.

From all accounts, he's been the other voice in Kawhi's ear telling him that he should leave and trying to push him to L.A.

if and when all sides involved with share any of the reasons why Kawhi didn't work out in San Antonio long term. Dude walked away from what on paper appears to be a favorable team, not to mentions millions of dollars as well.

Given the folks involved, zero chance of that happening, right?

>if and when all sides involved with share any of the reasons
>why Kawhi didn't work out in San Antonio long term. Dude
>walked away from what on paper appears to be a favorable team,
>not to mentions millions of dollars as well.
>
>Given the folks involved, zero chance of that happening,
>right?


He's already had individual success (DPOY, Finals MVP, arguably top 5), team success and earned $60M+.

That's already a pretty good career, even by NBA standards. A low-key guy like him that may not care about record books, "legacy" or being extremely wealthy could easily ride off into the sunset right now.

He really could just sit out for the fuck of it, play at the Y in LA somewhere and wait for the Lakers to call him in a year.

The league and everybody else that makes money off of him won't let that happen though.

..it all reads petty.


*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

BUT

If this dude Kawhi does NOT play for the Raptors, or Vince Carter's it from Day One...

Look, I'm also in the line that says it makes no sense for a team like the Celtics to empty the war chest for Kawhi until he shows he can play basketball, the same reason I wouldn't agree to including Fultz in any trade of significance despite him showing he can dribble a basketball and set a screen during his short return to the court. He still couldn't shoot!

Kawhi is still talking A) moody as fuck and B) hasn't shown anyone publicly that he's the same basketball player. There aren't any "reports" that he's killing it on a street court somewhere, just that BS report that he's "interested" in playing for Team USA. He should be "interested" in playing for the Raptors to prove he's still this guy everyone says is worth half the damn Celtics!

Again, I love this player empowerment era we're in, probably because I've never rooted for a team over a player in my life, but at some point this guy needs to cash a paycheck and prove himself again, IMO. He asked for a trade and got it, now he needs to stop pouting, recognize he didn't get sent to a WORSE situation (Toronto might be Canada, but it's a significantly cooler city than San Antonio by any metric) and just play some damn basketball.

~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

to Demarr will be glossed over. It's pathetic

he wasn't gonna be traded.

That’s why, while I question Kawhi’s decision-making, you can’t question his right to do what he feels is best for his career. Lord knows the GMs ain’t gonna be loyal to him, so do what’s in your best interest and fuck the rest.

until he’s actually traded lol.

Except for maybe 5 or 6 dudes anybody in the league can be on the trade block at any time.

with an owner he didn't trust (and rightfully so).

I always defend the player's right to self-determination. Owners and franchises look out for their bottom-line - they don't deserve loyalty.

-->

with Kawhi first to see if he even wanted to play there or didn’t they just want to get rid of Derozan that bad?

It ain't that hard to gauge the excitement of a player on a trade, even on some phone sh**. Either they're excited or not excited to come. Even in this day of "do as thy must" for the benefit of the team, organizations generally take that into consideration with superstars. This is just some ol PlayStation front office nonsense right here. I don't feel bad for em at all.

Just get Kawhi. That's what led to my post above; I'm exhausted over this narrative that Kawhi is just automatically going to be a Top 5 guy whenever he decides to get back on a basketball court.

If that's how it works out, that's amazing, but this guy sat out an entire year because of a combination of handlers whispering in his ear, a seriously confounding injury, and homesickness or depression or some lighter manifestation of those things.

It seems pretty obvious the Raptors just want to blow it up after giving it one more shot while the Celtics and 76ers are still growing up together. So I think this trade makes sense for them; if Kawhi refuses to play for them, they're working under the assumption he's leaving anyway and that jump starts it.

That said, if they were being smart about it in the short term, they'd have found a trade for Lowry instead. The long con with trading DeRozan for Kawhi, if he doesn't play for them or proves he's healthy but undermines the team from the locker room, is hoping they can fleece Los Angeles with a Melo-level gutting later this year.

Ujiri already did it to the Knicks.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

>The long
>con with trading DeRozan for Kawhi, if he doesn't play for
>them or proves he's healthy but undermines the team from the
>locker room, is hoping they can fleece Los Angeles with a
>Melo-level gutting later this year.

if the Lakers didn't go for that now why would they later in the year when they can sign him outright after the season?

That's just what's getting tossed around. Me personally, after that Melo trade, I'd never be trading for a superstar I'm looking to sign in the off season (and have the money to do it) ever again. But I'm sure Ujiri thinks he can convince Magic it's a good idea.


I lean more on the side that thinks he's just looking at Kawhi as a one-year rental in a last chance grasp for an appearance in the Finals. That's a resumé golden ticket and this is gonna be his last chance in Toronto to take it, and he's really not mortgaging his future to do this 'cause the Raptors have really, really good young players.


I'll bet he won't be all that disappointed if/when nobody bites on Kawhi at the trade deadline even if this season blows up in his face; the best and worst case scenarios both work out pretty well for him.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

Knicks got the two best players in the trade.

But sure they were fleeced...lol

Gallo and Chandler got hurt, Lawson found the bottom of the bottle and the game passed Faried by, but name a trade involving a superstar where the future looked any brighter for a team than those Nuggets. This year's Pacers?


Denver bottomed out two years after the trade due to bad luck; New York bottomed out because their depth was shit, a direct result of the Melo trade. I think fleecing is an accurate depiction of that trade because everyone that made Denver good in 2012 was a guy that could've been playing with Melo if NYK had just waited.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

So both teams got what they wanted, it seems.

I guess I don't mean that the trade itself was bad, immediately. But look at that 2012 roster, that lost in the semis to the Pacers in 6, and tell me it wouldn't look mean as hell if Chandler and Gallo weren't there. If somebody wants to do the salary math and debunk all of the following because if they'd waited to sign Melo they couldn't have brought in Tyson or Kidd, I'm willing to accept the argument is moot. But my memory of that time is that wasn't the case, and it was pretty clear the Knicks could have just waited to sign Melo because he wasn't going anywhere. Both Melo and the Knicks just got impatient.

I also don't remember if he already had the NTC on his Denver contract or that came with the Knicks re-up.


But remember I'm a Melo fan, and at this time was rooting for him as hard as I've rooted for any player in my life including Pippen in his year without Jordan and Iverson in his series against the Lakers. I always loved the underdog, so part of the trade spoke to me in that it was still in some ways Melo against the world.

I just don't recall it being a thing where if the Knicks didn't trade for him in the winter, they wouldn't have got him in the summer. I guess an easy counter to that is this Paul George thing, where he was hellbent on going to Los Angeles until he wasn't, but Melo didn't have that year to think about nor was his relationship with George Karl good at all.


Their Top 8 by total minutes was J.R., Melo, Felton, Tyson Chandler, (an admittedly pretty dope remix of) J-Kidd, Steve Novak (this dude, in THIS NBA? shit. a half-decade too soon), already 35 years old Prigioni and a young Shumpert.

I'd love to have relied less heavily on Novak to spark the offense with spot up shots and have someone like Gallo creating for himself, and love to not play Prigioni and Chris Copeland 100+ games combined 'cause I can get at least 60 out of Wilson Chandler.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

No one got fleeced.

Knicks got the 2 best players in the trade and one of the best scorers in the league at the cost of their depth.

Denver had a lot of depth and no elite scorer.

Both got what they wanted, but in the end the knicks got the 2 best players in the deal.

and then they make his contract the last bit of business next summer

Realistically, they weren't trading Kawhi to the West. Boston had some assets of course but probably didn't really want to deal any of them. Philly - well, a cost controlled rookie contract like Fultz is great to have (Ingram too!) but he forgot how to shoot, so that was that.

Getting an all star, a prospect, and a pick for a guy who played 9 games is about as good as it's gonna get.

But damn, I feel for Demar. Not THAT much as he's going to play for one of the best coaches ever but he really wanted to be a Raptor, and that means something.

.

Philly wouldn’t even include Fultz, Boston wouldn’t even include Jaylen Brown...that tells you strongly Kawhi’s camp is about coming here. SA knew they would get peanuts the longer they waited and they still want to compete right now (Pop is in his final arch) so they moved for a proven all-star player.

Wouldn’t surprise me at all if Kawhi gets dealt for peanuts at the trade deadline and Toronto starts rebuilding with Demar’s contract off the books.

Man it's disturbing. I'm all for not being down on him, but I would have gambled the house on him and sent his ass packing if I was GM. He showed little enough to me last year, that I wouldn't even be mad if he turned into a nice player after the trade. That being said, now that he's sure to be here next year, he MUST ball out. I'm talking all star consideration ball out.

even if the sixers were willing to move fultz and the lakers were willing to move ball or kuzma, this is a better deal. once toronto got involved it was a wrap. i just don't get what they are doing here. this seems like an ownership decision more than a management decision. they have a sharp GM who likely understands that this is a bad deal long term.

As soon as the Raptors rumors started I figured this would happened and two days ago a friend who is pretty plugged confirmed it.

Makes sense for the Spurs for sure. I don't get it for Toronto. At first glance I thought maybe a cap dump and some outlets are running with that angle. I guess they do set up nicely to be commitment-free pretty soon here but so what? Do they think they will out-woo franchises with more talent in place, better markets or both? LAL, PHI, IND, NYK, LAC, etc all set up pretty going forward, you know Miami is due to make moves also. Also how fucked up is it that they finally had a star that didn't wait to bail on them and they traded his ass for a risky asset/potential rental?

Spurs get bailed out here. They had to move Leonard between now and the deadline, realistically before the start of the season. They get an all-star back and one under contract for three seasons. Poetl is a nice throw-in, hasn't done much but was still a lotto pick two years ago. The pick sounds like it's fairly likely to confer as two seconds in 2020 or at best be a low first this coming year. But that's just gravy anyway. Buford got himself a nice deal. Unless something unexpected happens, I gotta SMFH at Toronto here.

Firing the COTY
shipping your franchise leader in damn near errything

would point toward a rebuild

except for Lowry's contract

Hard to move on when 1 player is eating up 1/3 of the payroll

Lowry I wouldn't worry about, I bet his deal is dumpable if it comes to that. Basically they had a high payroll and average expectations. Much like the Clippers, the first move will only trigger a series of moves to blow the team up. Anyone thinking they got rid of a top 20-30 guy for a top 5-10 guy is fooling themselves.

If he sits out this year too, holds the Raptors hostage or what have you, hard pass.

I get not wanting to play for SA any longer, and having a desired destination. If anything, he got one major part of his request fulfilled, and as a fan, I'd like to see him showcase himself and show that he's still the same guy.

I can't see any scenario where it's reasonable to trade for him or sign him to a max deal, or anything close, if he doesn't show the goods. I don't care what Chris Carter says.

If he doesn't show up and play for TDot, he's going to kill his value next summer IMO.

Granted, they showed themselves to be an untrustworthy, disloyal organization, and it's not like I expect him to give them anything more than the rental they traded for, but as a fan of the team he supposedly wants to play for... gotta see the goods.

>If he sits out this year too, holds the Raptors hostage or
>what have you, hard pass.
>
>I get not wanting to play for SA any longer, and having a
>desired destination. If anything, he got one major part of his
>request fulfilled, and as a fan, I'd like to see him showcase
>himself and show that he's still the same guy.
>
>I can't see any scenario where it's reasonable to trade for
>him or sign him to a max deal, or anything close, if he
>doesn't show the goods. I don't care what Chris Carter says.
>
>If he doesn't show up and play for TDot, he's going to kill
>his value next summer IMO.
>
>Granted, they showed themselves to be an untrustworthy,
>disloyal organization, and it's not like I expect him to give
>them anything more than the rental they traded for, but as a
>fan of the team he supposedly wants to play for... gotta see
>the goods.

all bc of the word lebronto,

like, Ingram & Hart and that's basically it

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

They could have traded Derozan for futures and expiring contracts without any issue.

Had they been the ones receiving a pick and a prospect rather than giving it, OK, I'd be with you. Acquire assets in one deal, flip the major one in another to get even more. But that isn't what happened.

w/ Derozan. His trade value was good - but not on par with Kawhi. They also know that they can perhaps set up a bidding war of future assets w/ Clips/Lakers - and they have no qualms about trading to the West (like Pop did).

I think Toronto is initially going to try to sell Kawhi on Toronto and see how the first quarter or two of the season play out. If it's clear his exit is imminent - they may push for a deal in Dec./Jan. to being their rebuilding and resetting of identity.

-->

He's a FINE, joyous player and is having an excellent
career. But he's a wild overachiever who played with
the best coach in basketball. He's the 3rd best player on a championship-caliber team, probably. You might not even get a
lottery pick for Derozan in a trade.

Toronto needed to try and take a RISK. I feel sorry for
Derozan, think being lied to is shitty, but definitely
get why they made the move. Raptors needed to make a splash,
to shake things up.

SA was in a bind

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

they probably would take that trade..

but the Lakers honestly shouldn't do that..


You can keep both Ingram and Hart and add a couple of other star players over the next couple of years without trading anyone...

You have a solid group of 22 and under players in Ball, Hart, Ingram, Kuzma, Svi, Wagner, Zubac…


Lebron James has literally never played on a team with this many talented guys this young...

The potential of this working......even in the short term of 2 years if you add another all star in this next offseason...

but the best cast scenario for this working is way to good not to at least try for a season..... then adjust as needed without losing any young talent

Kawhi has options, but he gets a season with a team that has some talent....it's definitely an upgrade for Toronto...

if he likes it he can stay..if not he can leave...



DeRozan goes to a team that really doen't need him to be a volume chunker….. This may really put him in a spot where he's playing to his strengths.....

https://twitter.com/AthleteTweetsO/status/1019949948891287552

he was scurrying to pick up the money...lol

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/24150340/toronto-raptors-president-masai-ujiri-apologizes-miscommunication-demar-derozan

>http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/24150340/toronto-raptors-president-masai-ujiri-apologizes-miscommunication-demar-derozan

I just can't.

White front offices been manipulating and lying since
the beginning of time

But Njiri has to fucking apologize

Masai also fired Dwane Casey.

So needless to say I'm looking at him skeptically.

>Masai also fired Dwane Casey.
>
>So needless to say I'm looking at him skeptically.

Do you think Masai has zero pressure from above?

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

Casey for a minute now. And there are reports backing up as such. Also that shit about him screaming on Casey after Game 3..... Nah B. I don't like that.

There aren't many GM's coming down screaming on coaches like that.

I'm lukewarm on Masai at best.

>There aren't many GM's coming down screaming on coaches like
>that.
>
>I'm lukewarm on Masai at best.

GMs been screaming on people since the beginning
of time, not even a debate

How many apologizing publically?

Stick up for black people, please, thanks


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

in any other sitch I'd be optimistic about a GOAT coming to the team, even on rental

but this is just a mess. Toronto really gotta put up a lot to get out of this, fuck the business reasons

got out from under derozan's money (turns 29 next month, is owed a ton a bread, and evaporates into thanos dust in critical postseason moments, perfect time to move on from him) without sacrificing any of their key youngsters (van vleet, OG, siakam, wright) in the process

improved *dramatically* in the short term on a team that had clearly run aground and hit its ceiling (this part's being underemphasized, they're prolly the east favorite right now)

got a decent amount of time to sell kawhi on their city and culture

and gave themselves the flexibility to pivot to rebuild mode a year early if things don't work out.

and can still flip kawhi in february if desired.

stellar work. A+. all the smart bloggers/analysts out there seem to grasp this.

He has set things up so his team has a legit shot at winning the East, BUT if they're not true contenders they can easily blow things up and go full tank, don't have a bunch of shitty contracts going forward. Very very hard to give your team that kind of optionality.

LIke "Is ANYONE in here not a Trump/Klan Member or a total
imbecile?"

This was a GREAT move.



----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

I was shocked to read most of the posts in this thread. I couldn't believe all the people who think this was a bad BASKETBALL move from Masai for the raps. Toronto/Canada is BITTER about this trade for 3 reasons:

1. DeMar repped for the city for 9 years. Up for a max deal, never even took a meeting with any other teams. In Canada, it is so rare for homegrown talent to WANT to stay. He famously tweeted "don't worry, i got this" when bosh left for Miami.

2. Masai clearly mislead DeMar barely a week ago (and as stated above, apologized to DeMar for the miscommunication in his first statement at the presser, which is crazy(!) given they should be celebrating KAWHI coming to fucking Canada, with or without his blessing. But it was a sobfest for hurting DeMar's feelings.

3. Toronto/Canada fairweather do NOT know Kawhi and have like never even seen Kawhi play. I'm serious. We don't get a lot of Spurs games out east unless they're playing the raptors. Couple that with the bandwagon fans only watching the Raps in the last year or two, most recently while Kawhi was not even playing, they honestly do not know who Kawhi Leonard is. I've heard it from countless people IRL and on social media since the deal went down. "I dont know much about Kawhi, but fuck masai for how he did DeMar". and that's really all there is to it. They don't know.

When Alex Anthopoulous traded Brett Lawrie and some prospects for an MVP candidate controllable Josh Donaldson, toronto fairweathers literally were pissed! they had no idea who josh donaldson was. It was shocking to me as a baseball fan that people had no idea. Then he plays 2 weeks in toronto in 2014 and the fans are all buying jerseys and he wins mvp.

This deal is a STEAL for Masai. I love DeMar. I am mad that he was mislead. I empathize with his family situation and his open struggle with depression. This CANNOT be easy for him. BUT, K.I.M. Go play for the greatest Head Coach of all time and be a beast in the West. We will love and honour you in Canada forever. Kawhi is a once in a generation talent that now plays for Canada's only team. Danny fucking Green is the player Toronto needed all of last year and he gets thrown the fuck in!

This is a win/win either way for the Raps. If this fails and Kawhi never reclaims his glory (in Toronto at least), then you move him for assets. You have a Bench Mob young core that are coming into their own and you build on that. Alternatively, IF the raps had gone status quo with the same team, their tv ratings for the regular season would have sucked, cause again, everyone would be saying "thats nice. make it to ECF or Finals, then ill be interested". Then if they fail again in the playoffs, Masai has to offload Kyle & DeMar next offseason. SO WHY WASTE THIS SEASON. Now we might be an east favourite, maybe Kawhi ends up carrying us to an ECF/Finals , loves the city and fans and decides he's happy here.

Win/win.

I bought one because of it.

Sorry, just reminding you that I think of that
whenever I see your username.

But that's a GREAT post re: Raptors, good sir.



----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

i mostly lurk sports and PTP nowadays. I certainly miss High Tech being a reasonable, somewhat-fast-moving place for tech discussion. So glad Apple made a sale off of my 2nd gen iPod review :D

I kinda went off on a tangent in this Kawhi post. Misspelled "misled" twice in the process. I just find it so shocking that OKP-Sports of all places is coming for Masai's head. I get casual fans in canada not understanding why this deal is win/win for the raps and spurs, but OKP of all places is ripping Masai?! Dude has built a #1 EC team IN CANADA...THE PLACE I LIVE...THE PLACE NO ATHLETE WANTS TO COME TO (until they get traded here, fall in love with a local, have kids, dont want the kids to leave the canadian system, and end up retiring here...

Toronto is a hockey city (something for which I care this___much about), but our actual ball fans are rabid. We have one of the most rabid, engaged, knowledgeable fan bases. Players love it here. DeMar and Kawhi are actually kinda analogous players. Both are notoriously quiet, go-to-work competitors. Toronto is the perfect place for a player who wants to be loved but not bothered. I hope this works out for everyone involved.

>This is a win/win either way for the Raps. If this fails and
>Kawhi never reclaims his glory (in Toronto at least), then you
>move him for assets. You have a Bench Mob young core that are
>coming into their own and you build on that. Alternatively, IF
>the raps had gone status quo with the same team, their tv
>ratings for the regular season would have sucked, cause again,
>everyone would be saying "thats nice. make it to ECF or
>Finals, then ill be interested". Then if they fail again in
>the playoffs, Masai has to offload Kyle & DeMar next
>offseason. SO WHY WASTE THIS SEASON. Now we might be an east
>favourite, maybe Kawhi ends up carrying us to an ECF/Finals ,
>loves the city and fans and decides he's happy here.
>
>Win/win.

It's obviously less than ideal for the top three reasons if Kawhi never settles in/never works for Toronto/never plays, but even if that happens, (a) the rebuild was coming, and (b) you could say you tried *something.* Best case scenario, you convince a Finals MVP to stay and help run the East.

add kawhi TO derozan and i would agree

but who guards Hayward or Horford? The Celtics have the 4 next best players after Kawhi (Kyrie, Horford, Hayward, Tatum) and all of those guys can create for others. They will be better than they were, but i dont think thats enough.

Serge, Jonas, and Norman Powell are still making 50 million for the next two years, so they are out of ways to get better. Even at pushing 29, he could still be there in 2-3 years and they could keep selling their arena out during a rolling re-tool. If (when) Kawhi leaves, its full on rebuild time, and I dont think Toronto fans are gonna pay to watch Processing.

Would they get more for derozoan or a kahwi rental? My guess is derozan.

You take that risk, because Kawhi can be the
best player on a title team.

Derozan can be the 3rd best player on a title team.

So ridding yourself of a really great guy, good
player (Derozon) for an OPPORTUNITY at Kawhi?
Do it.

And if not, you have the big contract off the book,
are close to having other bigger contracts off the
book.

It's giving it another good run before rebuilding.

It's genius.

good on Kyle Lowry for overclocking beyond his theoretical ceiling, but to me Toronto still doesn't have even a EC championship roster with Kawhi, Derozan, Bron or anyone as long as Lowry and Ibaka round out the "big" 3.

Also, the whole you:casey:derozan:::vex:bron:wade thing is so bland and transparent

demar's fine, but he is about to be 30, is an inefficient midrange scorer and a weak defender, and this team had clearly maxed its potential and gone as far as it were going to go with him as their best and highest paid player.

he's an all star, but he's an east all star. there's a difference. i doubt he makes it out west. george didn't even make it last year and he's a better player.

i think the disconnect is that people are looking at demar and his contract as an asset. ie "they could/should have gotten more". imo it was a burden to shed. he's going to begin to decline soon, given his recent playoff performances he's prolly already being paid more than he's worth, and it's not like he's going to be looking to give any discounts on his next deal. his production vs salary are going to be completely out of whack sooner than later. great time to move on.

i figured they'd try to move him. only surprise for me was they didn't have to attach OG or siakam to do it. that honestly shocked me. that alone is a coup.

the 1st will convey next year. so mid or late 20s. big whoop. that and poeltl were low on their asset totem pole, keeping those other guys was key.

smart GMs know when to cut bait. they also know that there are shades of grey between full rebuild and full win-now, and that it's possible to transition between the two over the course of several offseasons.

sure they still have other contracts to move if they do decide to pivot to a full rebuild. but so what. that's like saying you shouldn't quit smoking because you also have other bad habits. so? smoking is the worst habit, why not start there.

that team as constructed really had one more run left in it. now they can do it with a better roster, and they increased their long term flexibility. and who knows, if they make the finals maybe he stays. and they're still in a good space even if he doesn't.

A+ from me.

>smart GMs know when to cut bait. they also know that there are shades of grey between full rebuild and full win-now, and that it's possible to transition between the two over the course of several offseasons.

and Lowry himself has $90M coming still. Derozan was the best value of all their big contracts, and they have a bunch.

i understand what youre saying but why would Kawhi buy into Jonas/Lowry/Ibaka/Powell/Miles hamstringing them for like 90M(!) in 19-20, and then hoping you get lucky to make a "Blake to the Pistons" type trade for a star in his 20s with team control?

I honestly think the Raps un-sold a lot of future tickets with this trade. They were selling out their arena being "good, not great" and for a time at least displaced the Leafs as Toronto's favorite sports team. I dont see the logic on why they couldnt just continue to make money and be good until their contracts that are *actually* terrible come off naturally? Two years from now Derozan would only be 30 with an injury history that thus far is excellent, the bench that you like so much would be maturing, and they would drop like $90M off the payroll just by flipping days on the calendar.

this was a great move for toronto, short and long term.

basically, if they don't make the finals this year then they need to pivot to a rebuild. this move increases their finals odds *and* makes the pivot easier.

home run.

>basically, if they don't make the finals this year then they
>need to pivot to a rebuild. this move increases their finals
>odds *and* makes the pivot easier.
>
>home run.

There is no way to dispute this.

It gets them an actual superstar RIGHT TODAY.

It gets the rebuilding for the future sooner.


There's nothing else to discuss.

by losing derozan/kahwi for nothing?

They got a guy who has *already* been the center of
a championship team. (this before his prime)

And they had to give up a guy they *know* they cannot
build anything with AND got Danny Green.

If it doesn't work? Fine. They were going to rebuild
soon anyway.

It's a genius move.

one thing this league proves is whatever you doing you gotta go all-in.

If the plan is to rebuild, go all in. If the plan is to be as competitive as possible...do that.

What seems very likely is that kahwi will make toronto very competitive this season 50+ wins 2nd seed in the east. Bc they are playing well he won't get traded at the deadline. They lose to boston in ECF. He bounces in the offseason...as far as the rebuild is concerned the above likely scenario is an L.

This trade pulls of the remarkable double coup of
making the dumb far better immediately and far easier
to hit a complete reset.

I'm not sure what's so difficult for you all to understand.


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

space and/or draft picks.

Not sure why you guys think Derozan is going to
command some future All-Star

LOL

He's a fine player, but no one would give up
anything of value for him


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

Make up your mind lol

Masai found SA in a position that no one they were interested in shipping Kawhi to was willing to give up what SA wanted. So the Raps became the only game in town. Masai knew DeMar was on a time limit and they weren't going to get anything of significant future value for him given his contract. SA was about to get stuck with a generational player with no interest in playing for them. They got an All Star workhorse. The Raptors got Kawhi the fresh start/re-start he was craving. He may not be happy about it, but he knows he needs to ball to reclaim his status.

Brilliant move by Masai.

A healthy Kawhi is probably the best player to ever
play for Toronto.

Yes, even better than Vince in his prime,
which is saying A LOT.

(Carter has really had a glorious career, far
better than people realize)

based on...what?

we still don't know if Kawhi is the same player pre-injury

haven't seen him play

have you?

did Ujiri?

You're making the assumption that TOR got the MVP final Kawhi in this trade

that has yet to be seen

we also don't know if Kawhi is even going to play in TOR

If Pop couldn't reel Kawhi back into the team...that's a YUGE ask for a rookie HC IMO

to make a definitive statement like...improved dramatically makes alot of assumptions and overlooks alot of issues

you're spinning this to the absolute positive

it could go the other way...like all the way.

everyone here is assuming there's little / no chance he'll resign in toronto next summer. no one knows for sure. no one here has talked to him.

i think it's a reasonable assumption that if he's healthy he'll be the same player he was in 16-17, or a reasonable facsimile.

is it a sure thing? of course not. masai's taking a gamble. a worthy one imo. they'd maxed out. just running it back would've been silly.

You take the risk for a generational talent

AND

If he's not quite right, you're closer to being
able to hit reset on the whole thing

With Derozan you're in no man's land for the next
x seasons

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

Trading Derozan and being left with nothing after the season =/= genius.

Trading Derozan for Kawhi conflicts with the idea of rebuilding

Congrats on pushing off the inevitable for a year

and being left with less bullets in the clip when you do rebuild

GENIUS!!!

He's not even Kevin Love good, and Love is quintessential
"third best player on a championship team" good.

Hell, most competitive teams would rather have Iggy
right today than Derozan.

Derozan is a FINE player and is having an excellent career,
and good for him.

But the idea that you can trade him and get all kinds
of high picks? LMAO! From who?


>Trading Derozan and being left with nothing after the season
>=/= genius.
>
>Trading Derozan for Kawhi conflicts with the idea of
>rebuilding
>
>Congrats on pushing off the inevitable for a year
>
>and being left with less bullets in the clip when you do
>rebuild
>
>GENIUS!!!


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

Franchise's winningest coach, coming off of a season high in Ws and #1 seed

FYAHED!!!

Franchise's career leader in dayum near every category

DEUCES!!!

They are in rebuild mode, today

being so, trading away an asset and putting yourself in position to have absolutely nothing to show for it after 1 year

= doing it wrong.

I don't expect Bron or Giannis back for DD, so I don't understand where you jump all the way to blue chip

BUT

There are more than a couple franchises that have stockpiled assets for this offseason and next

as exhibited in all of the trade rumors and packages we withstood for the last month or so

You acquire those assets where you can

Whatever they might be

and then continue to improve your war chest for when it is time to make a move

the trade for Kawhi just delays the inevitable, which you seem to agree with

AND puts you in a situation where you didn't get anything back for DD at season's end

it's really not hard to understand...but I'm sure you will try your hardest.

They are all risks

Raptors took the smartest one

That's kinda what being black means

You get the blame, and almost none of the credit.

>got out from under derozan's money (turns 29 next month, is
>owed a ton a bread, and evaporates into thanos dust in
>critical postseason moments, perfect time to move on from him)
>without sacrificing any of their key youngsters (van vleet,
>OG, siakam, wright) in the process
>
>improved *dramatically* in the short term on a team that had
>clearly run aground and hit its ceiling (this part's being
>underemphasized, they're prolly the east favorite right now)
>
>got a decent amount of time to sell kawhi on their city and
>culture
>
>and gave themselves the flexibility to pivot to rebuild mode a
>year early if things don't work out.
>
>and can still flip kawhi in february if desired.
>
>stellar work. A+. all the smart bloggers/analysts out there
>seem to grasp this.

blind man could see it.

some of these cats _really_ like demar fkn derozan, i guess. lolz.

The best-case scenario for Kawhi Leonard and the Raptors
Jul 22, 2018
Andre Snellings
ESPN

Just how good will the Toronto Raptors be with Kawhi Leonard? That question is loaded with uncertainty given Leonard's still unknown health status and motivation level in Toronto. He reportedly has a desire to play in Los Angeles, and the Boston Celtics will be a powerful force in the Eastern Conference next season.

But make no mistake: If Leonard is locked in and returns to his 2016-17 form, the Raptors should project as favorites to make the Finals and be a legitimate threat to challenge the Golden State Warriors.

Let's look at the best-case scenario for this team.

Swapping out DeRozan for Leonard

The Raptors brought in Leonard in exchange for a package that included leading scorer and franchise player DeMar DeRozan. DeRozan has been chosen to the All-NBA team in each of the past two seasons, including a second-team nod last year that corresponded with his eighth-place finish in MVP voting. However, there are reasons to believe that DeRozan's accolades actually outpace his on-court impact.

While DeRozan has been Toronto's leading scorer in each of the past five seasons, the Raptors have actually outscored their opponents by a larger margin with him on the bench.

DeRozan's On/Off Net Rating
SEASON | NET RATING ON | NET RATING OFF | DIFFERENCE
2013-14 | 3.4 | 3.6 | 0.2
2014-15 | 2.6 | 3.9 | 1.3
2015-16 | 3.0 | 7.6 | 4.6
2016-17 | 3.3 | 8.3 | 5.0
2017-18 | 6.9 | 9.2 | 2.3
Source: NBA.com/Stats

This doesn't necessarily mean that the Raptors are better without DeRozan, but it does suggest that he isn't the one driving team success the way his accolades suggest. If we look closer at the performance of the Raptors' offense and defense with and without DeRozan over the past three years, we get a clearer view of his impact:

DeRozan's Offensive And Defensive Impact
SEASON | ORTG ON | DRTG ON | ORTG OFF | DRTG OFF
2013-14 | 105.9 | 102.4 | 105.8 | 102.1
2014-15 | 106.5 | 103.9 | 109.8 | 105.9
2015-16 | 107.1 | 104.1 | 106.7 | 99.2
2016-17 | 110.2 | 107.0 | 108.9 | 100.7
2017-18 | 112.2 | 105.4 | 108.1 | 98.9
Average | 108.4 | 104.6 | 107.9 | 101.4
Source: NBA.com/Stats

While Toronto's offense performed slightly better with DeRozan on the court, the defense has been significantly more effective with DeRozan on the bench over that span. And there's reason to believe that difference is more attributable to DeRozan's defensive abilities than just the strength of the Raptors' bench and quality of lineups faced.

ESPN's real plus-minus (RPM) -- which estimates on-court impact by adjusting for the quality of teammates and opponents -- shows that Raptors point guard Kyle Lowry has actually been noticeably more impactful over the past three years, while DeRozan largely gives up his positive offensive contributions on the defensive end.

Lowry And DeRozan RPM (And Rank)
SEASON | LOWRY | DEROZAN
2015-16 | 6.82 (7) | -0.14 (157)
2016-17 | 5.88 (10) | 0.17 (137)
2017-18 | 5.18 (9) | 1.66 (67)

DeRozan improved last season on both ends of the court but was still far behind Lowry in terms of on-court impact. So while the Raptors' offense could miss some of DeRozan's contributions, their defense should be significantly better without him, especially with Lowry still on the team.

The Kawhi boost

Leonard was named All-NBA first team in 2015-16 and 2016-17 while finishing top-3 in MVP voting in both seasons. He also won NBA Defensive Player of the Year in 2014-15 and 2015-16.

RPM backs up those accolades:

Leonard's On-Court Impact
SEASON | RPM | ORPM | DRPM | RPM RANK
2014-15 | 7.57 | 2.98 | 4.59 | 5
2015-16 | 8.07 | 4.19 | 3.88 | 5
2017-18 | 7.08 | 5.83 | 1.25 | 5

Leonard has consistently produced strong offensive and defensive impact -- among the very best in the league. If Leonard returns to form with his unparalleled defense and mostly efficient offensive attack, he and Lowry could give the Raptors two players ranking in the top 10 in RPM league-wide. Over the past three seasons, only the Warriors (Stephen Curry and Draymond Green, twice), Houston Rockets (James Harden and Chris Paul in 2017-18) and Oklahoma City Thunder (Russell Westbrook and Kevin Durant in 2015-16) have had teammates rank among the top 10 in RPM in the same season.

How will that look on the court? We know Leonard can shut down opponents. A lineup featuring Lowry, Danny Green, OG Anunoby, Pascal Siakam and a healthy Leonard is probably the favorite for the most terrifying defensive unit in the NBA. So let's compare DeRozan and Leonard offensively.

On average, Leonard in 2016-17 and DeRozan in 2017-18 took the same number of shots per game (17.7) with almost the same number of free throw attempts (7.0 for DeRozan, 7.2 for Leonard) in similar minutes (33.9 MPG for DeRozan, 33.4 MPG for Leonard). Leonard scored more efficiently from every distance, making 52.9 percent of his 2s (vs. DeRozan's 49.3 percent), 38 percent of his 3s (vs. DeRozan's 31.2 percent) and 88.0 percent of his free throws (vs. DeRozan's 82.5 percent).

Leonard has more reliable shooting range, and his physicality also makes him more of a threat at the rim. He draws more defensive attention than DeRozan even without the ball in his hands, which should allow Lowry and the other Raptors creators more space and opportunity to produce.

The Raptors were 59-23 with a scoring margin of plus-7.8 points last season, both marks right behind the Rockets and ahead of the Warriors at the top of the NBA. If all goes well following this trade, they should significantly upgrade their on-court production on both ends of the floor. With Leonard, their best player is now proven in the playoffs and a legitimate MVP-level performer, which should help the Raptors avoid their typical postseason malaise.

The Warriors are still the front-runners. The Celtics are essentially adding Kyrie Irving and Gordon Hayward to a team that was one win away from the Finals. The Rockets remain loaded -- we just saw Houston put Golden State on the ropes with strong defense and efficient, methodical offense.

But if the Raptors get the full Kawhi experience, they are absolutely contenders to do the same and challenge all of those teams for the title.

>But make no mistake: If Leonard is locked in and returns to his 2016-17 form, the Raptors should project as favorites to make the Finals and be a legitimate threat to challenge the Golden State Warriors.

if (*IF*) he's 16-17 kawhi (top 3 mvp candidate) then toronto's a 60+ win team and prolly top 3 on both ends (last season: 59 wins, #2 offense, #5 defense)

i feel like ppl are completely forgetting
a) how fucking good kawhi leonard is at basketball
b) toronto's entire 17-18 season prior to the lebron sweep

again: BEST CASE SCENARIO, that team's going to be really really fucking good.

Bron on this raptor team doesn't beat golden state.

I don't see how they beat a healthy Boston either.

And we expecting them to gel perfectly year 1??? Smh

Even in the East. Assuming Kawhi can be what he was, that's genuinely doable for them-- they only lost 23 pre-playoffs last year with DeRozan, and peak Kawhi is loads better.

I don't think they can beat Golden State either (and I'm also high on Boston for obvious reasons)... but they'd be considered a competitor, and I also think a 60+ win season and a Finals appearance would give Kawhi a *lot* to think about before he packs his bags. And that's the risk Toronto is willing to take. I dig it.

Plus, all it takes is one key injury for Golden State to be *vulnerable.* Still the favorite, but by less of a margin. Teams are just jockeying for position to exploit that opening. Cuz if you're in the right place and the dominoes fall the right way, that could be a title. And Toronto has a much better chance of snagging that opportunity if it arises with Kawhi than with DeMar.

to do with Kawhi's "greatness"?

I agree that "peak Kawhi", if that indeed does still exist, is light years better defensively than Derozan, but offensively does he really do that much more?

>to do with Kawhi's "greatness"?
>
>I agree that "peak Kawhi", if that indeed does still exist, is
>light years better defensively than Derozan, but offensively
>does he really do that much more?

Yes, he does.

He was basically a more athletic, more efficient
Carmelo. And I'm the biggest Carmelo fan there is.

>Yes, he does.
>
>He was basically a more athletic, more efficient
>Carmelo. And I'm the biggest Carmelo fan there is.


yeah I did, he averaged 25ppg on 48% shooting, 38% from 3 which is pretty damn good. I expect those efficiency numbers to dip in Toronto.

In San Antonio Kawhi did the majority of his damage off of set plays within the Spurs offense. He's not really a guy that can regularly just take over a game offensively, definitely not like a prime Carmelo.

>light years better defensively than Derozan, but offensively
>does he really do that much more?

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

Casey was winning with Derozan.

Discuss.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25421927/san-antonio-spurs-roughed-again


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

..Leonard's getting his $$$ regardless.

Now he can do it for an org/coach that actually appreciates and values him in the manner that he's comfortable with.

end of story.



*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

so many Ls. a cavalcade of Ls. terrible takes abound.

san antonio's system turned him from a decent draft prospect to an all time great and future hall of famer. he won a title and finals MVP, and put up massive numbers in his last full season there.

why would anyone think their system was holding him back?

where Kawhi felt like he was starting to outgrow the system and wanted to do things differently and Pop wasn’t having.

We’ve seen in these playoffs how deadly Kawhi was in the iso, he would’ve never got that many plays like that in San Antonio.

Why do we selectively attribute excellence to
"systems" and "development??"


Kawhi a talented, smart, hard working nigga who
took the leap

He made a leap the same way many did

Jorn wasn't dominating like that at Carolina,
some niggas just sprout

>Why do we selectively attribute excellence to
>"systems" and "development??"


yes, the spurs coaching staff, particularly chip engelland and ime udoka, developed kawhi leonard. not sure why that's controversial.

>yes, the spurs coaching staff, particularly chip engelland and
>ime udoka, developed kawhi leonard. not sure why that's
>controversial.

I'm listening


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

.

of course they moved a top 20-30 guy for a top 5-10 guy, but what will they have to show for it? if it isn't 1) a title and/or 2) kawhi signed long term, then what?

had they stood pat, they don't get past philly or milwaukee. no chance. you go out in round 2, it's an entirely different narrative, you're some loser team that's plateaued, and you're still on the hook for another 2yrs56m more of 30 yr old DeMar.

as it stands their season's already a rousing success. they've already given their incredible devoted rabid fanbase its biggest thrill in franchise history, which is priceless. that basically was like winning a title for them. everyone who was in scotiabank or maple leaf square tonight is gonna remember this day forever. nobody's gonna feel bad about losing to golden state.

and as the incumbent, they still imo have a great shot at resigning kawhi. I'd go so far as to say they're the favorites. and if they were just chasing him in straight UFA, they prolly don't even get an initial meeting. it was 100000% worth the gamble. this move legitimately changed their franchise, in incalculable ways.

there's God, and there's Masai God. praise both.

at the time, for example, when i said it was a "minor upgrade for one year," we had no idea what kawhi we'd get. most guys coming off a lower-body injury don't come back 100% (and I guess he didn't either, but close enough). other people questioned how they treated derozan and if they enter a rebuild they'll think twice about that.

also let's face it if embiid isn't shitting himself and the rim doesn't cooperate, they have another second-round exit.

so great for their management (those were the shittiest takes, calling them weak management) and great for the team/fans, but let's not pretend like this wasn't hella bold with serious flop potential.

Make sure he's ok. Skip is somewhere crying mad as shit.

Lol looked at his twitter. There is no way he believes anything he is spouting concerning Kawhi, just ridiculous

i got nothing against Kawhi but i hope the Dubs WASH Toronto in these finals ONLY so y'all "what if" cats can eat a full bowl of shut up, especially since this Toronto team is a better roster than that Spurs team.

mofos acting like it was a foregone conclusion that the Spurs were gonna upset GS after the FIRST HALF of the FIRST GAME of the WCF.

like the Dubs can't score 20 unanswered in 3 minutes. like the Dubs haven't tricked off a game then came back and won the next four.

GSW had the better team BY FAR and the home court advantage. there was way too much shit to come to be speculating the way cats were in that...AGAIN...one half of one game.

I'm not sure how you get to "mofos acting like it was a foregone conclusion that the Spurs were gonna upset GS after the FIRST HALF of the FIRST GAME of the WCF."...

...based on the question "what if".

The question "what if" is pretty much the exact opposite of "forgone conclusion".

is it a coping mechanism?




Kawhi will get his chance. With a better squad


Let's see what happens


We're gonna dead this shit just like we did that Chris Paul talk yall were flapping your gums about

championship team.

What if Draymond doesn't get suspended?

What if Lebron doesn't block Igoudala?

What if the Spurs can get a rebound in 13?

What if Perkins doesn't miss game 7 in 2010?

What if Wade doesn't get all those free throws in 06?

What if "Big Shot" Bob Horry doesn't hit that big shot in 02 against the Kings?


Get over yourself, you can tell when motherfuckers ain't used to winning shit lol.