http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2076555-mark-jackson-says-lebron-james-is-greatest-small-forward-in-nba-history


what about Bird?

>http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2076555-mark-jackson-says-lebron-james-is-greatest-small-forward-in-nba-history
>
>
>what about Bird?

Also, LONGEVITY and durability.

But Bird and Lebron's peaks were waaaaay closer than their
careers.

And offensively, Bird mops the floor with Lebron.


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

speed
speed
speed
physical ability (jumping, vision)
speed
health (durability)

all better than bird ever had..stats aren't the end all when determining one's value, and the 80's while rougher (debatable what that even means other than trying to merge pro wrestling with b-ball) the talent was nowhere near what it is today..the greats were the greats, they always will be, no matter the era, but the REST of the league was shit...

lebron is a point guard, with a power forwards body, that shoots like a two guard, and shuts down 1-5...

NO ONE IS ON HIS LEVEL, SORRY

***************************************

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Not sure why you're doing this, I already said Lebron
better

Lebron's defensive ability and ability to change
into a role playing banger if he needs to put him
over the top

>speed
>speed
>speed
>physical ability (jumping, vision)
>speed

LOL

So Lebron is faster and quicker? So was Dominique. So
was Rodman and thousands of other negroids that Bird
used to make extremely mad

And Bird was a better passer, and 50,000 times better
shooter, and better rebounder.

>health (durability)

LOL. I already mentioned this.

>all better than bird ever had..stats aren't the end all when
>determining one's value, and the 80's while rougher (debatable
>what that even means other than trying to merge pro wrestling
>with b-ball) the talent was nowhere near what it is today..the
>greats were the greats, they always will be, no matter the
>era, but the REST of the league was shit...

Lebron would get punched in the jaw with all that crab
dribbling random drives to the basket shit. He'd HAVE to
shoot jumpers more, and more would clang off the rim.
Defense in the 80s was way, way, way more stifling.

>lebron is a point guard, with a power forwards body, that
>shoots like a two guard, and shuts down 1-5...

Bird was a forward, who passed like a point guard, was one
of the 3-5 shooters to ever live, one of the best rebounding
3s ever (again, better than Lebron). Offensively he was without
a flaw.

>Defense in the 80s was way, way, way more stifling.
>

Also in the 80s; the average players range was a lot closer than today, so it was less about "great defense" than bad offense.

___________________________
He has the confidence of Vernon Maxwell on a yayo binge.

http://www.2amDonuts.bandcamp.com

"and the 80's while rougher (debatable what that even means other than trying to merge pro wrestling with b-ball) the talent was nowhere near what it is today..the greats were the greats, they always will be, no matter the era, but the REST of the league was shit..."

What's that based on? Youtube clips and ESPN Classic? FOH.

is anyone even arguing against this at this point?
discussion already done moved on to whether or not he can surpass jordan as the all time great

People like me said that he's so great, 32-10 is pretty
normal

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

Made Rodman so mad, Rodman pulled the race card

But apparently Lebron going off on flabby Paul Pierce
and putting up 32-10 on a man he's four inches and
50 lbs heavier than is domination

I'm crying


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

only Rodman's *2nd* season in the league...

he hadn't become the defensive stopper at that point in his career. It was by his *3rd* season that he started to become the defensive player he was and when he became a starter...and that's when Rodman (even according to Bill Simmons) gave Bird all kinds of fits. He was only playing 15 minutes per game in his 2nd season and then went to 32 minutes per by his *3rd* season.


>Made Rodman so mad, Rodman pulled the race card
>
>But apparently Lebron going off on flabby Paul Pierce
>and putting up 32-10 on a man he's four inches and
>50 lbs heavier than is domination
>
>I'm crying

Uh George guarded Lebron more than Lance did last night and PG is actually abt 6-9 and a better defensive player than "Born Ready."

grassrootsphilosopher

>Uh George guarded Lebron more than Lance did last night and PG
>is actually abt 6-9 and a better defensive player than "Born
>Ready."

Bwaahahahahahahahahaahahah

So it was PG and not Born Ready?

How the fuck do y'all let me set y'all up for this
shit so easily?!??

Y'all ain't learned NOTHING?!?!?


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

guarded Lebron more throughout the game...but make no mistake abt it, both of em got it took to them


>>Uh George guarded Lebron more than Lance did last night and
>PG
>>is actually abt 6-9 and a better defensive player than "Born
>>Ready."
>
>Bwaahahahahahahahahaahahah
>
>So it was PG and not Born Ready?
>
>How the fuck do y'all let me set y'all up for this
>shit so easily?!??
>
>Y'all ain't learned NOTHING?!?!?
>
>
>----------------------------
>
>
>
>O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"
>
>
>
>
>"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."
>
>(C)Keith Murray, "

grassrootsphilosopher

>only Rodman's *2nd* season in the league...
>
>he hadn't become the defensive stopper at that point in his
>career. It was by his *3rd* season that he started to become
>the defensive player he was and when he became a starter...and
>that's when Rodman (even according to Bill Simmons) gave Bird
>all kinds of fits. He was only playing 15 minutes per game in
>his 2nd season and then went to 32 minutes per by his *3rd*
>season.
>
>
>>Made Rodman so mad, Rodman pulled the race card
>>
>>But apparently Lebron going off on flabby Paul Pierce
>>and putting up 32-10 on a man he's four inches and
>>50 lbs heavier than is domination
>>
>>I'm crying
>
>Uh George guarded Lebron more than Lance did last night and PG
>is actually abt 6-9 and a better defensive player than "Born
>Ready."
>


There you go again with your "facts" and "reasoned assertions", we will see how far this gets you.

I'm from the lost black tribe of Israel, the Yos

http://coolehmag.com/frontEnd/

don't hate on the messenger

Rodman was only in his 2nd season and was only playing 15 minutes per...behind Adrian Dantley.

His 3rd season when he began getting starter minutes and when he was emerging into the defensive player he became.

So Bird scoring 37/9/9 on a 2nd year player doesn't really say anything

grassrootsphilosopher

OE reaching so bad with this shit it's sad

Bron shot 10-11 at the rim and took 19 free throws, mostly on drives to the rim.

He still would have beasted but it wouldn't have gotten stupid like that

Well neither did bron-bron

-->

he's pretty fucking good. But, I dunno what you're going for with this addendum. Chill, fam...fall back and enjoy your victory. This part ain't workin.

>he's pretty fucking good. But, I dunno what you're going for
>with this addendum. Chill, fam...fall back and enjoy your
>victory. This part ain't workin.

That they are doing that at all is affirmation of the
agenda: if Born Ready wasn't good, nobody would care

Just gotta stay focused

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

Great, legendary player.

But he ain't Kang - no shame in that.

-->

because there was definitely a strong argument for both Dr. J and Elgin Baylor for that spot...

but I'd agree to putting Lebron there now..

I think the only real question now would be who would be the starting PF.... if we keep it strictly to guys who actually played the position..I'm guessing the argument comes down to Karl Malone vs. Tim Duncan..... but in reality I'd make the exception for that position and put Bill Russell there since Kareem (or Wilt) would be the starting Center...

the spots that I think are for sure now would be

Pg- Magic
SG- Jordan
SF- Bron
C- Kareem

I forgot, not only how athletic he was in his early days

but also, that every single move he relies on now

he had from day 1

it's really not close.

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

There isn't a single offense/defense in any era that
he doesn't fit into

Like you mentioned, Timmay was actually VERY athletic
for his position in his youth and is more athletic than
he seems now

He's easily the best 4 of all time

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

I mean if he wasn't drafted onto a team that already had David Robinson...he would have come in playing Center..and would have stayed there..

he was a center in college....and the only reason he moved to PF was because his team already had a future hall of fame center..

so as much as I'm not the biggest fan of the Mailman.... he is really more of a true PF than Timmay.

kinda how KG was a PF in Minny and then a C in BOS, and now BKN

the league went to small ball

which allowed Timmay to move from PF to C, as well as KG

I don't think either pop into my head as GOAT Cs

but they do for PFs

$.02

if you're alluding to him playing out of position, see my reply above

he was athletic enough, with size, to guard PFs

I don't remember PFs getting by him with speed, etc...

now if you had The Admiral guarding somebody like Karl or CWeb

that's probably a mismatch

you follow

C in NCAA doesn't mean a whole lot

Duke had Parker playing C this year and he's a SF in the league

just sayin

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

that that's a player's natural position

6-7 Dejuan Blair played center at Pitt

>kinda how KG was a PF in Minny and then a C in BOS, and now
>BKN
>
>the league went to small ball
>
>which allowed Timmay to move from PF to C, as well as KG
>
>I don't think either pop into my head as GOAT Cs
>
>but they do for PFs
>
>$.02
>
>if you're alluding to him playing out of position, see my
>reply above
>
>he was athletic enough, with size, to guard PFs
>
>I don't remember PFs getting by him with speed, etc...
>
>now if you had The Admiral guarding somebody like Karl or
>CWeb
>
>that's probably a mismatch
>
>you follow
>
>C in NCAA doesn't mean a whole lot
>
>Duke had Parker playing C this year and he's a SF in the
>league
>
>just sayin

grassrootsphilosopher

>kinda how KG was a PF in Minny and then a C in BOS, and now
>BKN

He played PF next to Perkins when they won the title..

it wasn't until he was older and slowed that he moved to Center..

I remember guys like KG getting some criticism because they were 7 footers who didn't play center and had expressed a desire NOT to play Center....

KG in fact played a lot SF for the Wolves too back when they had like Joe Smith


>the league went to small ball
>
>which allowed Timmay to move from PF to C, as well as KG
>
>I don't think either pop into my head as GOAT Cs
>
>but they do for PFs
>
>$.02
>
>if you're alluding to him playing out of position, see my
>reply above
>
>he was athletic enough, with size, to guard PFs
>
>I don't remember PFs getting by him with speed, etc...
>
>now if you had The Admiral guarding somebody like Karl or
>CWeb
>
>that's probably a mismatch
>
>you follow
>
>C in NCAA doesn't mean a whole lot
>
>Duke had Parker playing C this year and he's a SF in the
>league
>
>just sayin


but here's the thing too though...

Post David Robinson

can you name a Spurs STARTING Center who was consistently on the court during crunch time during ANY of the Spurs runs??

I can't...

at those times...when the games count...Tim Duncan may not have been starting as the Spurs Center..but since the Admiral the position of starting Center for the Spurs has been insignificant...and during that times that really count...Tim Duncan has been playing Center for the Spurs...

starting Tim at PF allows the Spurs to have someone else guard the teams best Big man thus saving Timmmay's energy and fouls if the other teams Center is an offensive threat...

but again.... being 7 foot...basically a center because your entire game is post and facing the basket below the free throw line... to be in that position yet not take the responsibility of guarding the best big man on the other team and being your teams Center is something that's a big questionable to me.... I think it was Bill Russell who talked about that some years ago...like saying KG and Duncan could help their teams more if they played Center ...and they should step up...

in this playoffs right today...Splitter is cool...but when it matters...Diaw is going to be at PF and Timmay is going to be at Center

>KG in fact played a lot SF for the Wolves too back when they
>had like Joe Smith
KG was basically Bron before Bron.....I remember him playing back-up point in the 2004 post-season after Troy Hudson got hurt. He was more of a PF/SF in Minny than a PF/C. (Dirk is also a SF masquerading as the PF)

>can you name a Spurs STARTING Center who was consistently on
>the court during crunch time during ANY of the Spurs runs??

The Spurs signed Robert Horry to strictly play crunch time minutes thus Tim was a center by default. Nazr Mohammed might have been the best starting Center Tim played alongside with since Admiral just based on his 2005 post-season performance. Even in 2003, Malik Rose used to finish games depending on how well he's playing.


>in this playoffs right today...Splitter is cool...but when it
>matters...Diaw is going to be at PF and Timmay is going to be
>at Center
Basically......but if you take into account the entire game, Tim in his PRIME played more minutes as a PF than as a C. He even appears on All-NBA Teams as a "Forward". With that said it is to his credit that he was able to play TWO position at an elite level.

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

there might be a handful of true Cs even in the league

like, AT ALL

and off the top, the only teams I can think of that feature a true C

would be CHA and Al Jeff, maybe MEM with Marc Gasol?

outside of that

literally every NBA team is running a PF at C today

which we might just have to attribute to Timmay and nem's success

see Filf's reply

KG running with Perk sounds alot like Nazr

and I wouldn't even call Perk a C

he's just slower and less athletic than most PFs

like the bizzaro Timmay.

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

locked down. But there's nowhere near any consensus on the top center, and if so, it would probably be Wilt and not Kareem.

Damn I just got caught in an agenda trap. Before posting I wouldn't have even given Kareem a chance at the top spot. But since you stated something outlandish but in a matter-of-fact way (that Cap is the top C and it's not even in question like the PF position) I had to meet you halfway with my response.

and if so, it would probably be Wilt and not
>Kareem.

grassrootsphilosopher

>locked down. But there's nowhere near any consensus on the
>top center, and if so, it would probably be Wilt and not
>Kareem.
>
>Damn I just got caught in an agenda trap. Before posting I
>wouldn't have even given Kareem a chance at the top spot. But
>since you stated something outlandish but in a matter-of-fact
>way (that Cap is the top C and it's not even in question like
>the PF position) I had to meet you halfway with my response.

I think offensively they'd be pretty even....Kareem being a much better free throw shooter does count for a lot...he ended up scoring more points...people say that was because he played longer, but the fact that he had a level of effectiveness past 40 is another reason why I'd give him the nod...
they're also about even as passers, but I'd give a slight edge to Kareem...

defensively again about even...may give Kareem the advantage as a shot blocker...and Wilt an advantage as a rebounder..

Kareem played against stiffer competition throughout his career too..

but the other thing that to me is the deal breaker..

Kareem is the best and most dominant High School player ever...
He's the best and most dominant College player ever...
and he ended his pro career as the all time leading scorer with multiple titles with different teams and MVPs..

So I mean if we go from Power Memorial High School in 1961 until 1989 with the Lakers.... Nobody has a career like that in terms of dominance ..individual success ....team success...and changing the game...nobody.

near consensus like you mentioned in your post...if you were gonna have a vote I'm guessing Kareem would come in second or third, with a few people putting him fourth.

Center has got to be the toughest position to evaluate across eras.

>because there was definitely a strong argument for both Dr. J
>and Elgin Baylor for that spot...

love Julius but no. and you might make an argument for Elgin in comparison to their respective eras, but at 6-5 if you take him out of his era he's not matching up with Bird so no.


>I think the only real question now would be who would be the
>starting PF.... if we keep it strictly to guys who actually
>played the position..I'm guessing the argument comes down to
>Karl Malone vs. Tim Duncan.....

If you're calling Duncan a 4 there is no argument, but he's really a 5.


>the spots that I think are for sure now would be
>
>Pg- Magic
>SG- Jordan
>SF- Bron
>C- Kareem

can't argue with that.

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

.

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

I want you to read that sentence and let it sink in.

Or...can you read? Is this being dictated to you from text-to-voice? Because I can't believe you have vision if this is truly the case.

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

You DO know these things are pretty subjective, right?

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

Comparison across eras especially

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
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Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

Man...I'm Chi til I die and have no use for Miami if they not playing the Spurs...

But I'm looking at u kinda funny, dog....lol

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
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Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

this subject got me lookin at some numbers....

You can't sleep on Pippen either because his assists were high particularly for a SF..

but damn...

Dominique Wilkins numbers are friggin incredible.....of course the 30...28...27 PPG.....

but had some solid rebounding seasons too.... his 90-91 season he averaged 9 boards a game...shot 34% from three..and averaged what was for him a lower 25.9 PPG... but it's some pretty good SFs who didn't average 9 boards a game..

sure his assists were low but why should he have passed...he was a unstoppable as a scorer most of the time..

He should be high on the SF list..

Granted that 3ptrs weren't a big part of the game in the 80s/early 90s.

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

>this subject got me lookin at some numbers....
>
>You can't sleep on Pippen either because his assists were high
>particularly for a SF..
>
>but damn...
>
>Dominique Wilkins numbers are friggin incredible.....of course
>the 30...28...27 PPG.....
>
>but had some solid rebounding seasons too.... his 90-91 season
>he averaged 9 boards a game...shot 34% from three..and
>averaged what was for him a lower 25.9 PPG... but it's some
>pretty good SFs who didn't average 9 boards a game..
>
>sure his assists were low but why should he have passed...he
>was a unstoppable as a scorer most of the time..
>
>He should be high on the SF list..

does it really matter?