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Subject: "Unpopular music opinions you got revisited." Previous topic | Next topic
normal35762
Member since Oct 20th 2004
12983 posts
Thu Dec-10-20 03:43 AM

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"Unpopular music opinions you got revisited."


  

          

I remember this post from a few years ago.

Wanted to start it up again.

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
Efil4zaggin is better than Str8 Outta Compton
Dec 10th 2020
1
Yea it is, production-wise no question.
Dec 10th 2020
7
That's what it is.
Dec 12th 2020
39
definitely better
Jan 15th 2021
182
In God We Trust is better than One For All.
Dec 10th 2020
2
while we’re at it... Foundation is their best album
Dec 10th 2020
5
^^^ This is absolutely true.
Dec 10th 2020
6
Been re-listening to One For All a lot and... nah.
Dec 10th 2020
17
"in god we trust" gets my vote
Dec 26th 2020
92
"De La Soul is dead" - that title had an effect on the music within the ...
Dec 10th 2020
3
Explain plz.
Dec 10th 2020
8
      Making a record with the mentality (title) of calling yourself "dead"...
Dec 10th 2020
9
           Hm OK. Is there confirmation that they decided on the title first ?
Dec 10th 2020
11
                The confirmation they had that mentality (thrust/title/theme) in mind is
Dec 10th 2020
13
                     OK OK. But wouldn't what you just said torpedo your original point ? Hah...
Dec 10th 2020
18
                          New album > new chance to refresh
Dec 10th 2020
19
Justin Bieber is a great Pop Artist
Dec 10th 2020
4
I beg to differ
Jan 09th 2021
166
      Hardcore fans? Bieber is like the #2 most streamed artist. LOL.
Jan 15th 2021
180
           He’s like #2 with Twitter follows lol
Jan 15th 2021
181
Neo-Soul killing itself was fucking stupid.
Dec 10th 2020
10
Agree !!
Dec 10th 2020
12
I'm interested in this... what are the defining characteristics of NeoSo...
Dec 10th 2020
15
and then errybody wanted to capture the sound of 60s motown
Dec 11th 2020
24
So sad and true
Jan 09th 2021
167
Songs In The Key Of Life is too long.
Dec 10th 2020
14
This Hotter than July
Dec 11th 2020
21
RE: This Hotter than July
Dec 12th 2020
43
I Think It's Good Considering How Many Songs He Recorded For It
Dec 11th 2020
22
Nigculela is uncuttable fam
Dec 11th 2020
25
this blasphemy is intolerable!
Jan 15th 2021
179
      I actually LOVE those songs.
Jan 16th 2021
184
the cult of some acts often outgrows the talent and catalog
Dec 10th 2020
16
I think in the cases of those bands...
Dec 10th 2020
20
RE: the cult of some acts often outgrows the talent and catalog
Dec 14th 2020
54
The Beatles are over rated.
Dec 11th 2020
23
FIXED: The Beatles ALBUMS are over rated.
Dec 11th 2020
28
Yep agreed.
Dec 11th 2020
31
      Their strength was their weakness IMO
Dec 12th 2020
34
No...but I'll say this
Dec 12th 2020
35
You like Ob-La-Di???
Dec 12th 2020
36
Lol yeah
Dec 12th 2020
38
People rain on Sgt. Pepper's nowadays
Dec 12th 2020
37
The Beatles are the white canon
Dec 15th 2020
63
Not to dismiss the obvious racism...but I think my issue is more in line
Dec 15th 2020
65
Interesting take but it wasn't that deep
Dec 27th 2020
94
      I agree but I think the point is that the lionization is overboard.
Dec 27th 2020
103
      Yeah I see what you're saying
Dec 28th 2020
110
           LOL - I'm a fan too, just for the record.
Dec 28th 2020
112
      It absolutely is that "deep."
Dec 29th 2020
117
RE: The Beatles are over rated.
Dec 29th 2020
133
yeah, I don't get it
Jan 15th 2021
183
all outkast albums have filler and a couple of eh songs
Dec 11th 2020
26
Most.....ATLiens is the exception
Dec 14th 2020
60
There's none.
Dec 15th 2020
66
not sure if filler is the right word
Dec 15th 2020
68
      Yoooooooo...this man is INSANE!
Dec 15th 2020
72
      Yeah.....I really don’t agree
Dec 27th 2020
98
I wouldn't say 'filler' but they never really mastered the art of sequen...
Dec 22nd 2020
90
      But you just defined 'filler'
Jan 09th 2021
170
      that's not what 'filler' is though
Jan 14th 2021
177
      Can you give examples of when this happens?
Jan 14th 2021
178
           that's pretty much what I'm talking about
Jan 18th 2021
185
DJ Quik's production/rhyming does nothing for me
Dec 11th 2020
27
it isn't mediocre at all
Dec 11th 2020
30
Haha exactly.
Dec 11th 2020
32
I don't think he actually IS mediocre.
Dec 11th 2020
33
      this is what you should have said initially
Dec 12th 2020
42
He doesn't razzle and dazzle
Dec 27th 2020
95
Scarface’s The Diary is overrated
Dec 11th 2020
29
To me that's his best album.
Dec 12th 2020
40
Took my reply.
Dec 12th 2020
41
I wish he had stayed in Mr Scarface Is Back mode forever
Dec 13th 2020
44
never got into Dilla beats like that
Dec 13th 2020
45
Your thoughts on Dilla explain your D'Angelo thoughts
Dec 13th 2020
46
RE: Your thoughts on Dilla explain your D'Angelo thoughts
Dec 13th 2020
47
      I feel you on that Dilla.
Dec 13th 2020
52
Same here with Dilla
Dec 14th 2020
56
I find this part interesting.
Dec 18th 2020
74
Great breakdown - I agree.
Dec 18th 2020
80
this is a really thoughtful take
Dec 29th 2020
125
on D'Angelo
Dec 29th 2020
126
      Agreed on all of this.
Dec 29th 2020
128
jay dee had the potential to be one of the best R&B producers eva
Dec 22nd 2020
91
      Voodoo and Black Messiah are both....just okay
Dec 28th 2020
113
           like a theme of this post - Quik, Dilla - a person has to be "open" to....
Dec 28th 2020
114
                I can get with this....but I'm also pretty yay or nay and don't change l...
Dec 28th 2020
116
                     I love that Brown Sugar and Voodoo get this response
Dec 29th 2020
119
                          THE WHOLE DECADE? lmao from 2000-2010?! Jesus Cristo
Dec 29th 2020
121
                               LOL yea that's one hell of a statement.
Dec 29th 2020
122
                               Absolutely.
Dec 29th 2020
124
                                    That’s the list you came up with?
Dec 29th 2020
127
                                         Anytime I get to listing albums on here..
Dec 29th 2020
129
                                              this really comes down to personal preference
Jan 04th 2021
160
                                                   Ha!
Jan 04th 2021
161
                                                        just saw this reply. absolutely facinating
Jan 11th 2021
172
Aliyah barely had any talent...
Dec 13th 2020
48
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Dec 13th 2020
49
Nah...she rip songs from her first album all the way to her last
Dec 13th 2020
50
She definitely had talent.
Dec 14th 2020
53
      Not mad at that...
Dec 14th 2020
55
      She could sing in the way that Janet could sing
Dec 14th 2020
57
I have to listen to reggae in small doses.
Dec 13th 2020
51
I don't see the appeal of reggaeton
Dec 14th 2020
58
Not sure I've read or heard the word "reggaeton" in 6+ years.
Dec 14th 2020
59
Boot Camp >>>> Wu-Tang
Dec 14th 2020
61
Curious as to how?
Dec 15th 2020
64
RE: Curious as to how?
Dec 15th 2020
67
      RE: Curious as to how?
Dec 15th 2020
69
           Forgot about that Pete/Smif N Wessun album!
Dec 15th 2020
70
                Say what say what say what...I said My Timbz Do Work!
Dec 15th 2020
71
P!
Jan 04th 2021
163
THOSE 3 songs should have been cut from streams of thought vol 3
Dec 15th 2020
62
Rza is the best MC from Wu Tang
Dec 18th 2020
73
^^^And the winner of the “I want to be different” award goes to...
Dec 18th 2020
75
I laughed.
Dec 18th 2020
79
      RE: I laughed.
Dec 19th 2020
82
           RZA sounds the same on every single verse LOL
Dec 19th 2020
83
Inspectah Deck is the best MC from Wu-Tang
Dec 19th 2020
85
Obviously Raekwon
Dec 27th 2020
96
The main 5 MCs all have their own strength
Dec 27th 2020
101
I love the Bobby Digital Albums probably more than the
Dec 29th 2020
118
The concept of the Black Album was a lot better than the execution
Dec 18th 2020
76
Absolutely agree
Dec 18th 2020
77
Wait what was the concept ?
Dec 18th 2020
81
Yeah that’s what I meant - 12 tracks, 12 producers
Dec 19th 2020
84
Oh word yea - I agree.
Dec 21st 2020
87
I never thought Jay would go through with that.
Dec 21st 2020
86
      RE: I never thought Jay would go through with that.
Dec 21st 2020
88
           RE: I never thought Jay would go through with that.
Dec 22nd 2020
89
It's the beats
Dec 27th 2020
97
      That’s because he ALWAYS followed trends
Dec 27th 2020
99
           Don't forget 4:44 - emo beats
Dec 27th 2020
102
           RE: That’s because he ALWAYS followed trends
Dec 29th 2020
123
                Yea I had a few beefs w/that analysis.
Dec 29th 2020
130
                RE: Yea I had a few beefs w/that analysis.
Dec 29th 2020
131
                     Yea Doe or Die I wasn't really gonna argue haha.
Dec 29th 2020
134
                          I guess but...Shawn Carter to Jay-Z damn you on Jaz...
Dec 29th 2020
135
                               Oh yea - you won't get much argument from me that Jay has a history.
Dec 29th 2020
136
                                    The main trend be set was...
Dec 29th 2020
138
                                         He killed jerseys
Dec 29th 2020
139
                                              RE: He killed autotune as well
Dec 29th 2020
140
                What was the single?
Dec 29th 2020
132
RE: Unpopular music opinions you got revisited.
Dec 18th 2020
78
give me janet over michael
Dec 26th 2020
93
I’m with you
Dec 29th 2020
137
Ready To Die is not a Top 5 album of 1994
Dec 27th 2020
100
* opens iTunes *
Dec 27th 2020
104
Damn...and you didn’t even name Kast or Common
Dec 27th 2020
105
Forgot both.
Dec 29th 2020
120
I came in Ready To D....isagree
Dec 27th 2020
106
Blowout Comb doesn’t get the credit it deserves
Dec 27th 2020
107
      For me the only definite is 1.Main Ingredient 2. Illmatic
Dec 27th 2020
108
Damn what a list
Dec 28th 2020
109
      I need to check that out again
Dec 28th 2020
111
           Black Sheep Non Fiction
Dec 28th 2020
115
                I still cannot get into Non Fiction
Dec 30th 2020
142
                     I love that shit
Jan 03rd 2021
156
                          Non-Fiction gets hate cause it wasn't Wolf.
Jan 03rd 2021
157
not even close to it, either
Dec 31st 2020
143
reading all these posts, GAH DAMN y'all niggas have some wild takes LOL
Dec 30th 2020
141
Prince is CORNY
Dec 31st 2020
144
NY State Of Mind Pt 2 > NY State Of Mind
Dec 31st 2020
145
I hate sequels but yea - that song goes hard.
Jan 01st 2021
148
Yep
Jan 11th 2021
174
Apparently some people think SD50 production was good?
Dec 31st 2020
146
Fetch the Bolt Cutters was...meh
Jan 01st 2021
147
Gift of Gab is one of the GOATs
Jan 01st 2021
149
I agree with this. I love Gab so much.
Jan 01st 2021
150
i love gab too
Jan 04th 2021
159
Cuban Linx album artwork is complete garbage
Jan 02nd 2021
151
You fuckin crazy
Jan 02nd 2021
152
I won't say it's garbage but it's not good.
Jan 03rd 2021
154
You guys have got to be fucking joking
Jan 03rd 2021
155
      Think he means it’s not as garbage as chronic or ready to die
Jan 03rd 2021
158
Its fucking iconic man
Jan 04th 2021
164
Soul On Ice is not a good album
Jan 03rd 2021
153
RE: Soul On Ice is not a good album
Jan 09th 2021
168
      RE: Soul On Ice is not a good album
Jan 09th 2021
169
JC was the real star of N'Sync
Jan 04th 2021
162
Big L's debut was trash
Jan 04th 2021
165
He was talented and it was horribly sad that he passed
Jan 09th 2021
171
I definitely wouldn’t say trash
Jan 11th 2021
173
Jadakiss and Styles P are overrated
Jan 13th 2021
175
Agreed
Jan 13th 2021
176

normal35762
Member since Oct 20th 2004
12983 posts
Thu Dec-10-20 03:45 AM

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1. "Efil4zaggin is better than Str8 Outta Compton"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

But both are FLAMES and classics to me.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
20966 posts
Thu Dec-10-20 11:11 AM

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7. "Yea it is, production-wise no question."
In response to Reply # 1


          

I prefer the more toned down, socially aware, yet still hardcore lyricism of Straight Outta Compton to the intentionally-grotesque nonsense on Efil4zaggin.

But the listening experience musically is FAR superior on Efil. Dre and Yella really found their sound on that one. And Dre took it outta this world for the next few years.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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normal35762
Member since Oct 20th 2004
12983 posts
Sat Dec-12-20 04:59 PM

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39. "That's what it is."
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

Imagine Efil era NWA sonics with Death Certificate Cube working with them.

  

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will_5198
Charter member
61242 posts
Fri Jan-15-21 06:51 PM

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182. "definitely better"
In response to Reply # 1


          

and holds up better

although I'm not sure this is such an unpopular opinion

--------

  

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normal35762
Member since Oct 20th 2004
12983 posts
Thu Dec-10-20 03:46 AM

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2. "In God We Trust is better than One For All."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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Anonymous
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22697 posts
Thu Dec-10-20 08:34 AM

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5. "while we’re at it... Foundation is their best album"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

And underrated in the crop of 98 classics

  

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Marbles
Member since Oct 19th 2004
21760 posts
Thu Dec-10-20 11:01 AM

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6. "^^^ This is absolutely true."
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

"In God We Trust" is Brand Nubians best album by miles, IMO.

  

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
43261 posts
Thu Dec-10-20 03:11 PM

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17. "Been re-listening to One For All a lot and... nah."
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

It's definitely a weird for a group album, because the second half ostensibly becomes a Puba solo project. However, the only clear miss is "Try To Do Me" (Feels So Good and Brand Nubian were added as bonus cuts after the fact). The rest of that album is flames, from the beats to the lyrics.

Sadat and Jamar definitely improved on In God We Trust (especially Jamar), but One For All is better overall.

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

  

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FunkyBoss
Member since Aug 31st 2002
1163 posts
Sat Dec-26-20 08:16 PM

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92. ""in god we trust" gets my vote"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

  

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c71
Member since Jan 15th 2008
11514 posts
Thu Dec-10-20 06:04 AM

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3. ""De La Soul is dead" - that title had an effect on the music within the ..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Yep

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
20966 posts
Thu Dec-10-20 11:11 AM

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8. "Explain plz."
In response to Reply # 3


          

>RE: "De La Soul is dead" - that title had an effect on the music within the record

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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c71
Member since Jan 15th 2008
11514 posts
Thu Dec-10-20 11:51 AM

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9. "Making a record with the mentality (title) of calling yourself "dead"..."
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

....leads to songs like "Millie pulled a pistol ..", "ring,ring .."


But....

If they supposedly "neutrally" made some songs and just evaluated the results afterwards as deserving a title like "De La Soul is dead", then I guess the music spoke for itself.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
20966 posts
Thu Dec-10-20 12:41 PM

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11. "Hm OK. Is there confirmation that they decided on the title first ?"
In response to Reply # 9


          

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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c71
Member since Jan 15th 2008
11514 posts
Thu Dec-10-20 01:19 PM

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13. "The confirmation they had that mentality (thrust/title/theme) in mind is"
In response to Reply # 11
Thu Dec-10-20 01:19 PM by c71

  

          

"Ain't hip to be labeled a hippie" and those "you say Plug 1 and 2 are hippies..."lyrics from "Me myself and I"


They was sour-ing early

Sour thrust

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
20966 posts
Thu Dec-10-20 03:46 PM

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18. "OK OK. But wouldn't what you just said torpedo your original point ? Hah..."
In response to Reply # 13


          

If the mentality was what it was anyway, then it doesn't really matter which came first does it ? The title or the music ?

In other words the album would've had that same tone and direction no matter which they came up with first.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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c71
Member since Jan 15th 2008
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Thu Dec-10-20 07:00 PM

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19. "New album > new chance to refresh"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

They obviously kept going in that sour "ain't hip to be labeled..." direction so...I believe choosing that title/being "settled on that title early (in my view) "exacerbated" the sour "thing"

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Thu Dec-10-20 08:27 AM

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4. "Justin Bieber is a great Pop Artist"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

And consistently makes good to great Pop R&B albums (though he should not be eligible for an R&B grammy).

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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3CardMolly
Member since Jun 08th 2007
13166 posts
Sat Jan-09-21 05:48 AM

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166. "I beg to differ"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

Aside from maybe two songs in the last 5-10years, no others are known except to hardcore fans. However as other pop artist, the money machine is put behind them to remain a constant visually.

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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180. "Hardcore fans? Bieber is like the #2 most streamed artist. LOL. "
In response to Reply # 166


  

          


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Anonymous
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Fri Jan-15-21 01:00 PM

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181. "He’s like #2 with Twitter follows lol"
In response to Reply # 180


  

          

  

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phemom
Member since Oct 22nd 2004
5042 posts
Thu Dec-10-20 11:54 AM

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10. "Neo-Soul killing itself was fucking stupid."
In response to Reply # 0


          

You build a new sub-genre that everyone seemingly liked, but since it isn't considered the same as 70s soul everyone ran from the name....while also making worse music or no more music at all.

It was so silly in hindsight.....and that music is still so good. Almost no one even attempts it anymore....while everyone is saying "R&B is dead" in the same breath.

phemom's the name, all-star writer/
searching 4 journalistic fame, mindframe igniter....www.twitter.com/hayabusaage

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
20966 posts
Thu Dec-10-20 12:41 PM

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12. "Agree !!"
In response to Reply # 10
Thu Dec-10-20 12:53 PM by Brew

          

>RE: Neo-Soul killing itself was fucking stupid.
>You build a new sub-genre that everyone seemingly liked, but
>since it isn't considered the same as 70s soul everyone ran
>from the name....while also making worse music or no more
>music at all.
>
>It was so silly in hindsight.....and that music is still so
>good. Almost no one even attempts it anymore....while everyone
>is saying "R&B is dead" in the same breath.

I think some "conscious rappers" did the same thing on some levels. Not wanting to be boxed in with the "conscious" label, they stepped outside that lane that they themselves created with varying results.

I don't like to tell artists to "stay in their lanes" because they're artists and can experiment as much as they like. But I *do* think that the deliberate attempts to distance themselves from that conscious "box" resulted in some subpar music. I think that they likely could've expanded their sounds without trying to ditch the label altogether, and ended up with better results.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Hitokiri
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Thu Dec-10-20 01:53 PM

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15. "I'm interested in this... what are the defining characteristics of NeoSo..."
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

Are people really not doing it, or are they just not calling it that?

--
"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

"There is only one god and his name is death. And there is only one thing we say to death: not today."

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
15394 posts
Fri Dec-11-20 07:21 AM

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24. "and then errybody wanted to capture the sound of 60s motown"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

Totally agree

Been spending some time recently with Erykah's catalog

Sincerely miss that sound.

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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3CardMolly
Member since Jun 08th 2007
13166 posts
Sat Jan-09-21 05:58 AM

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167. "So sad and true"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

I think as soon as the industry started tapering white artist to the neo-soul title, black artist ran away. I.e. Dude that made 'take a message for my love'. However when it comes to 90's R&b (similar to 70's 80's funk/r&b) theres never really been a blowback due to a white artist joining the party. Ie. AWB, Hall&Oates, Jon B.
Cant help but think most artist ran from the title in an effort to not be formulated and boxed in. But when you think about the name 'neo's it doesn't give a feeling of longevity and eventually would outlive its name.

  

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LeroyBumpkin
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Thu Dec-10-20 01:22 PM

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14. "Songs In The Key Of Life is too long."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I'd cut these:

Saturn
Ebony Eyes
Black Man (this joint is almost 9 minutes)
Ngiculela - Es Una Historia - I Am Singing
Easy Goin' Evening (My Mama's Call)

Stevie's filler is better than a lot of people's careers.
And these are good songs, I just don't think they should have been included on 'Songs'. Out of everything in his classic period, it's the album I listen to the least because it's just a chore to get through it.

Also, a continued conversation the Music Snobs had on twitter, Hotter Than July had a chance to be better than 'Songs' had Stevie included all the songs he was working on during that time.

Revised Hotter Than July tracklist:

A
Did I Hear You Say You Love Me
All I Do
Rocket Love
Ribbon In The Sky

B
Master Blaster (Jammin')
I Can't Help It
That Girl
Lately
Do I Do

It may not be better than 'Songs', but MAN it's really close.


@dseals | @digife
https://digife.com

  

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jimaveli
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21. "This Hotter than July"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

You’ve curated? Shiiiiiiiiiid, that’s some straight up jammin right there.

I remember when I ran through Stevie’s core catalog in the early 2000s. I remember being AMPED to hear HTJ. Then I felt like hella songs were ‘missing’. That girl especially. It was a letdown for those songs to be on the greatest hits. That girl might still be my favorite 80s Stevie song.

And since we’re here, I’m not sure Stevie shoulda let Jermaine have Let’s Get Serious either!

>I'd cut these:
>
>Saturn
>Ebony Eyes
>Black Man (this joint is almost 9 minutes)
>Ngiculela - Es Una Historia - I Am Singing
>Easy Goin' Evening (My Mama's Call)
>
>Stevie's filler is better than a lot of people's careers.
>And these are good songs, I just don't think they should have
>been included on 'Songs'. Out of everything in his classic
>period, it's the album I listen to the least because it's just
>a chore to get through it.
>
>Also, a continued conversation the Music Snobs had on twitter,
>Hotter Than July had a chance to be better than 'Songs' had
>Stevie included all the songs he was working on during that
>time.
>
>Revised Hotter Than July tracklist:
>
>A
>Did I Hear You Say You Love Me
>All I Do
>Rocket Love
>Ribbon In The Sky
>
>B
>Master Blaster (Jammin')
>I Can't Help It
>That Girl
>Lately
>Do I Do
>
>It may not be better than 'Songs', but MAN it's really close.
>
>
>

  

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LeroyBumpkin
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Sat Dec-12-20 08:49 PM

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43. "RE: This Hotter than July"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

>You’ve curated? Shiiiiiiiiiid, that’s some straight up
>jammin right there.

Man! Until that discussion popped off on Twitter I never realized
all those songs came from the same era. If he had just kept them...

@dseals | @digife
https://digife.com

  

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Dj Joey Joe
Member since Sep 01st 2007
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Fri Dec-11-20 02:54 AM

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22. "I Think It's Good Considering How Many Songs He Recorded For It"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

Wasn't there a interview going around last year where Stevie said he recorded over 200 songs while recording "Songs In The Key Of Life" and even though Barry Gordy wanted Stevie to put out only a regular album, it was in Stevie's contract to let him do what he wanted so it ended up being a double LP plus 4 bonus songs (that were on a 7" record); just think about that for a minute, he had chose 21 songs out of 200.

I will agree some of Stevie's music sometimes did go a little long but you got to remember during the late 70's to mid 80's long songs were normal especially the uptempo ones for the clubs & people to dance to; I wouldn't be surprised almost half of the songs on the album were longer than what was presented and were edited.


https://tinyurl.com/y4ba6hog

---------
"We in here talking about later career Prince records
& your fool ass is cruising around in a time machine
trying to collect props for a couple of sociopathic degenerates" - s.blak

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
13325 posts
Fri Dec-11-20 12:51 PM

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25. "Nigculela is uncuttable fam"
In response to Reply # 14


          

NOT HAVING IT!

~
~
~
~
~
"Until you get outta my way, I don't wanna hear what you say aye aye"

  

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naame
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179. "this blasphemy is intolerable! "
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

"cash in your face" and "do like you" are classics!

America has imported more warlord theocracy from Afghanistan than it has exported democracy.

  

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LeroyBumpkin
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184. "I actually LOVE those songs."
In response to Reply # 179


  

          

But in thinking of a revised Hotter Than July, I'm not sure they'd have made the cut.

@dseals | @digife
https://digife.com

  

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Tiger Woods
Member since Feb 15th 2004
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Thu Dec-10-20 02:29 PM

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16. "the cult of some acts often outgrows the talent and catalog"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


there's a few acts that come to mind who this is the case for...in other words " X is good, but they're not THAT good to be so big "

Bjork
Radiohead
Arcade Fire

I get the appeal...I don't get the superstar status

  

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obsidianchrysalis
Member since Jan 29th 2003
7750 posts
Thu Dec-10-20 08:26 PM

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20. "I think in the cases of those bands..."
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

The critics adore them and because they make or break careers, the bands benefit from the glowing reviews/press.

And their fans REALLY like them. I've heard of fans loving those groups and I've heard of bands hating them because of their bulletproof critical appeal. But I've never heard someone being a casual Bjork or Radiohead fan. Because their fans are so noisy, it gives off a false impression of how big they really are.

*** Sidenote ***

I just looked at Radiohead's record sales and they've apparently sold 30M albums!!?? I was a Thom Yorke stan for a while but I had no idea they sold records like that. I figured they were like a notch above The Roots -- a band that could sell around 1M albums for a release and tour but no one really knew about them.

Yeah, there's no reason why Radiohead should be that big.

<--- Me when my head hits the pillow

  

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thebigfunk
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Mon Dec-14-20 06:11 PM

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54. "RE: the cult of some acts often outgrows the talent and catalog"
In response to Reply # 16


          

>
>there's a few acts that come to mind who this is the case
>for...in other words " X is good, but they're not THAT good to
>be so big "
>
>Bjork
>Radiohead
>Arcade Fire
>
>I get the appeal...I don't get the superstar status

Arcade Fire's darling status has been controversial from the jump. I think at this point most would agree with you.

Radiohead earned their status imo. They have multiple *huge* records that both sold very well and they've proven, time and again, that artistically they're on a whole other level. I think it's easy to forget now how unique their approach to the music business has been over the full arc of their career, too, pioneering ways of thinking about music and the industry that we now take for granted (effectively giving away an album, and dropping an album out of the blue, for starters). I guess you could question how much musical influence they've had - who are their musical children? - although I think that's there, too, even if it's a bit more subtle. Their catalog is pretty rock solid ... hard for me to come up with good reasons why they shouldn't have the status they do.

Bjork is super complicated in this regard. Her early records were groundbreaking, especially at the popular level, and she continued to surprise really through her fourth and fifth albums, minimum. No one sounded like her, no one could imitate her, and for as outlandish/un-pop as she could be she also managed to be surprisingly accessible at times. Her later projects have suffered from their scope and sort of conceptual/extra-musical baggage; the popular caricature of her as some flighty fairy avant garde princess has also done her no favors. But I think you could argue that she helped usher in a more performance-art approach to popular music and even popular culture more generally.

In both cases, you have exceptional musicians making exceptional music and also making a name for themselves through something that is, at least from a certain perspective, extra-musical. (Both have outstanding live shows, too, it should be said.) I'd struggle to make the case that they're overrated in some way but I'd like to hear more.

-thebigfunk

~ i could still snort you under the table ~

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
15394 posts
Fri Dec-11-20 06:33 AM

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23. "The Beatles are over rated."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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Anonymous
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Fri Dec-11-20 07:40 PM

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28. "FIXED: The Beatles ALBUMS are over rated."
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Fri Dec-11-20 11:18 PM

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31. "Yep agreed."
In response to Reply # 28


          

For years I'd see Rolling Stone and pretty much every other music publication rank 3 or 4 Beatles albums in the top 10-20 of all time and I'd always be thinking, man, these dudes were uber talented and made some great music but it ain't like *that*.

Glad I'm not alone.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Anonymous
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Sat Dec-12-20 01:25 AM

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34. "Their strength was their weakness IMO"
In response to Reply # 31
Sat Dec-12-20 01:29 AM by Anonymous

  

          

They all needed each other and were a GREAT band with two of the GREATEST songwriters leading them.

But that caused their albums to always be uneven and to me seemed to lack focus:

Paul always had the song were he got a bit too corny.

John sometimes got too “I don’t give a fuck”

George had to sit in the background for too long.

They always gave Ringo some weird shit.

Their albums are praised for the impact and the technical advances and yes they had GREAT songs but the albums always lacked cohesion and direction for me.

You can clearly tell who wrote which song and it always came off like John and Paul wrote independent from one another conceptually and lyrically and they produced it as a group which is why you have shit like Maxwell’s Silver Hammer and I Want You on the same album.

But I’m sure that’s what a lot of people like about their albums too *shrugs*

But they never put out an albums as focused as something like, What’s Goin On because of how they operated.

  

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OKdamn
Member since Dec 04th 2010
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Sat Dec-12-20 11:47 AM

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35. "No...but I'll say this"
In response to Reply # 23
Sat Dec-12-20 11:55 AM by OKdamn

          

They're not unmatchable.
As in there were plenty of artists making music that was just as good or better that didn't get worshipped the way they did.

But you can't be overrated when 95% of your output was quality..
Out of their entire catalog I only dislike 2 songs.
Maxwell's Silver Hammer & All Together Now.
I even like Honey Pie lol.

  

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Anonymous
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36. "You like Ob-La-Di???"
In response to Reply # 35


  

          

Son, you can’t be serious.

  

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OKdamn
Member since Dec 04th 2010
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38. "Lol yeah "
In response to Reply # 36


          

I know 3 of the damn band didn't mess with that one ..but imo it isn't BAD. Maxwell's Silver Hammer is BAD. I don't really like Lady Madonna but I can't say is *dislike* it.

  

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c71
Member since Jan 15th 2008
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Sat Dec-12-20 01:08 PM

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37. "People rain on Sgt. Pepper's nowadays"
In response to Reply # 35


  

          

One article on a recently anniversary brought up how many critics hate Sgt. Peppers nowadays. Particularly influential Jim DeRogatis:

https://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/03/weekinreview/03basicB.html

No, Not Everyone Enjoyed the Show

By Chris Conway

June 3, 2007

It was 40 years ago last Friday that the Beatles released “Sgt. Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band,” widely, though not universally, considered the greatest rock album of all time.

In 2003, Rolling Stone magazine ranked it No. 1 on its list of the 500 greatest rock albums, calling it “the most important rock & roll album ever made, an unsurpassed adventure in concept, sound, songwriting, cover art and studio technology by the greatest rock & roll group of all time.”

Jim DeRogatis, pop music critic for The Chicago Sun-Times, who says he was born the year the Beatles invaded America, 1964, offers a revisionist assessment in an essay on his Web site, adapted from his 2003 book, “Kill Your Idols: A New Generation of Rock Writers Reconsiders the Classics.”


His most concise appraisal, offered in four words, can’t be reprinted here because it would violate the newspaper’s standards on vulgarity.




His more expansive view? “The Beatles have just given us 39 minutes and 52 seconds of rather unremarkable, uninspired music with a central theme that’s conservative, reactionary and retrogressive.”


Critics at the time were also divided.

Writing in The New York Times on June 18, 1967, Richard Goldstein found one of the album’s songs, “A Day in the Life,” to be “one of the most important Lennon-McCartney compositions, and it is a historic Pop event.” But overall, he was unimpressed, calling the album “an undistinguished collection of work.”

Not so Carl Bernstein (yes, that Carl Bernstein), who reviewed the album for The Washington Post on the same day. “In their latest album,” he wrote, “the Beatles have managed to create a musical infinity through a miraculous metamorphosis of dozens of Eastern and Western musical ideas, some centuries old, others from our own era and more than a few from the future ... It is a bit fantastic — and certainly unprecedented.”

Whatever its merits, the album still commands interest. It ranks No. 55 on Gracenote’s all-time list of albums accessed by users of the firm’s digital music database. Gracenote processes more than 1.2 billion searches a month.

  

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Hitokiri
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63. "The Beatles are the white canon"
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

white people decided, without ever considering people of color, or artists of color (who were making better music) that the beatles were the greatest, most important musicians ever. And now, if you voice any dissent toward that wack ass opinion, you're crazy.
The Beatles are musical white supremacy.

--
"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

"There is only one god and his name is death. And there is only one thing we say to death: not today."

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
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Tue Dec-15-20 03:15 PM

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65. "Not to dismiss the obvious racism...but I think my issue is more in line"
In response to Reply # 63


  

          

with the previous replies about their albums being shite

I think it was Rubber Soul...put the album in...preparing to be dazzled by the consensus GOAT rock group...and...well...I just wasn't

If I remember correctly, listening to the 2nd half of that album was a chore

But yeah...yt pee poe...

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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OKdamn
Member since Dec 04th 2010
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Sun Dec-27-20 09:01 AM

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94. "Interesting take but it wasn't that deep"
In response to Reply # 63
Sun Dec-27-20 09:02 AM by OKdamn

          

They were good looking, entertaining and their music was better than the stupid shit Rolling Stones and Herman's Hermits were making. I think it was that simple. Nobody could make a front to back LP quite like they could.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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103. "I agree but I think the point is that the lionization is overboard."
In response to Reply # 94


          

Maybe it wasn't that deep in the moment but like a few folks have mentioned, every top 100 album list you see has like 4 Beatles albums in the top 10.


>They were good looking, entertaining and their music was
>better than the stupid shit Rolling Stones and Herman's
>Hermits were making. I think it was that simple. Nobody could
>make a front to back LP quite like they could.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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OKdamn
Member since Dec 04th 2010
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Mon Dec-28-20 12:16 AM

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110. "Yeah I see what you're saying"
In response to Reply # 103


          

It's really hard for me to pick which album deserves to be above all the others because to me they're all good so I guess I can't be objective about this question because I'm a superfan lol

  

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Brew
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112. "LOL - I'm a fan too, just for the record."
In response to Reply # 110


          

But I do also agree that perhaps the critical praise has become a bit much as the years have gone on.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Hitokiri
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117. "It absolutely is that "deep.""
In response to Reply # 94


  

          

it's fascinating that you can't see it for what it is.

--
"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

"There is only one god and his name is death. And there is only one thing we say to death: not today."

  

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go mack
Member since May 02nd 2008
3835 posts
Tue Dec-29-20 05:34 PM

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133. "RE: The Beatles are over rated."
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

not as much as Elvis tho. I dig a lot of Beatles songs, the melodies, lyrics etc especially from Lennon. Elvis nah, I could never even sit thru an album.

  

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will_5198
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Fri Jan-15-21 06:52 PM

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183. "yeah, I don't get it"
In response to Reply # 23


          

--------

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
13889 posts
Fri Dec-11-20 03:59 PM

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26. "all outkast albums have filler and a couple of eh songs"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

with the exception of their debut....maybe.

part of why my ranking is:

de la soul

tribe





kast

  

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DJR
Member since Jan 01st 2005
15970 posts
Mon Dec-14-20 11:21 PM

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60. "Most.....ATLiens is the exception"
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

That album is pretty much perfect. Where’s the filler?

  

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LeroyBumpkin
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66. "There's none."
In response to Reply # 60


  

          

@dseals | @digife
https://digife.com

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
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68. "not sure if filler is the right word"
In response to Reply # 60


  

          

i wanted to use flawed but that has its own issues. ill say songs that i dont love. for atliens i pretty much lose interest after elevators. all the songs through elevators are perfect. the beats are awesome, verses great and dope hooks.

the exception of those is jazzy belle, the hook is kind off to me and i dont love the song as a whole as much most people seem to. the beat and verses arent the problems. id say the lyrics are definitely the highlight of the song. i would still say its a great song and worthy of being in a best of list.

for the rest its basically the same theme, the beats and verses stay great but some songs are brought down by the hooks.

i think the hook for ova da wudz is straight up bad. the babylon one is awkward if not straight forgettable. decatur psalm hook is also pretty eh.

the millennium hook is basically filler lol. its not too bad, it works fine but its not a great hook.

e.t. hook is also pretty eh.

so songs i dont love from atliens
ova da wudz
babylon
decatur psalm
millenium
e.t.

i could understand people saying they love the beat of any of those or that the lyrics are their favorite but the hooks bring those songs down for me. only one of those id consider putting on an outkast mix would be millenium.

my "illmatic" of atliens would be the full album minus those tracks and the elevators remix (its not bad but doesnt beat the original)

  

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Anonymous
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Tue Dec-15-20 08:28 PM

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72. "Yoooooooo...this man is INSANE!"
In response to Reply # 68


  

          

  

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DJR
Member since Jan 01st 2005
15970 posts
Sun Dec-27-20 10:55 AM

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98. "Yeah.....I really don’t agree"
In response to Reply # 68


  

          

I like all the songs you named, don’t see the issue with the hooks you named, and think that album is consistently great throughout.

I can see the issues with Aquemini a little bit, and definitely Stankonia.(after that I don’t count anything else as an Outkast album). But not ATLiens.

  

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Garhart Poppwell
Member since Nov 28th 2008
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Tue Dec-22-20 08:30 AM

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90. "I wouldn't say 'filler' but they never really mastered the art of sequen..."
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

it's frustrating sometimes because they'll have a string back to back songs that's absolutely mindblowing, then a dud will come out of nowhere and the song in question doesn't really add value or serve purpose, or it's just not executed well. Then you'll get another load of fantastic songs. It just really interrupts the flow of the albums for me. I think they did a better job of that on their first few albums though, in the back part of their catalogue this is damn near a plague in my opinion.

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

  

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Oak27
Member since Apr 17th 2005
12612 posts
Sat Jan-09-21 07:53 PM

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170. "But you just defined 'filler'"
In response to Reply # 90


  

          


>then a dud will
>come out of nowhere and the song in question doesn't really
>add value or serve purpose, or it's just not executed well.

That's not an issue with sequencing, it's an issue of a bad song being a bad song regardless of where on the album it's placed.

  

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Garhart Poppwell
Member since Nov 28th 2008
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Thu Jan-14-21 08:27 PM

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177. "that's not what 'filler' is though"
In response to Reply # 170


  

          

>
>>then a dud will
>>come out of nowhere and the song in question doesn't really
>>add value or serve purpose, or it's just not executed well.
>
>That's not an issue with sequencing, it's an issue of a bad
>song being a bad song regardless of where on the album it's
>placed.
>
a bad song is just a bad song but bad song /= filler. filler material is stuff that's put there for no real reason, or to make the album longer than it really needs to be. filler always screws up the sequencing on an album, hence my point. now you seem to equate any bad song as being filler, if that's the case then I can agree with what you're saying.

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

  

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Anonymous
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Thu Jan-14-21 08:48 PM

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178. "Can you give examples of when this happens?"
In response to Reply # 90


  

          

I assuming by back end of their catalogue you mean Stankonia forward.

If so then I can agree with you to a degree.

Those first 3 albums really don’t have any bad songs. I’ll give you Mamacita but even that has an ill Andre verse, Witchdoctor cooking stouffers and Big Boi chillin at the La Quinta laying hoes down on the freestyle tip.

So I’m not sure where these batches of bad songs are on the first 3 albums.

After that, they really only have Stankonia as an album because the last two were pretty much solo albums combined as OutKast. One purposefully as a double and the other with them just sequencing individual solo songs back to back.

So if we look at Stankonia, I can agree because I would’ve cut the following songs:
Snappin & Tappin
I’ll Call Before I Come
We Luv Deez Hoez
And then many of the interludes could go

And as far as sequencing...yeah that shit is also a mess on that album.

  

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Garhart Poppwell
Member since Nov 28th 2008
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Mon Jan-18-21 04:24 PM

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185. "that's pretty much what I'm talking about"
In response to Reply # 178


  

          

>I assuming by back end of their catalogue you mean Stankonia
>forward.
>
>If so then I can agree with you to a degree.
>
>Those first 3 albums really don’t have any bad songs. I’ll
>give you Mamacita but even that has an ill Andre verse,
>Witchdoctor cooking stouffers and Big Boi chillin at the La
>Quinta laying hoes down on the freestyle tip.
>
>So I’m not sure where these batches of bad songs are on the
>first 3 albums.
>
>After that, they really only have Stankonia as an album
>because the last two were pretty much solo albums combined as
>OutKast. One purposefully as a double and the other with them
>just sequencing individual solo songs back to back.
>
>So if we look at Stankonia, I can agree because I would’ve
>cut the following songs:
>Snappin & Tappin
>I’ll Call Before I Come
>We Luv Deez Hoez
>And then many of the interludes could go
>
>And as far as sequencing...yeah that shit is also a mess on
>that album.


but I will say in the spirit of fairness that Stank got bootlegged early and because of that they added a bunch of stuff to the album that probably wouldn't have been there otherwise.

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

  

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stylez dainty
Member since Nov 22nd 2004
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Fri Dec-11-20 04:39 PM

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27. "DJ Quik's production/rhyming does nothing for me"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I don't really like any g-funk/west coast gangsta rap, but Quik gets listed on so many people's greatest producer lists and it sounds like mediocre jamming to me.

----
I check for: Serengeti, Zeroh, Open Mike Eagle, Jeremiah Jae, Moka Only.

  

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blackfoot_female
Member since Jul 15th 2002
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Fri Dec-11-20 08:39 PM

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30. "it isn't mediocre at all"
In response to Reply # 27


          

just say his music doesn't move you. scarface doesn't really hit me like he does for other people, but I don't need to disrespect his legacy, i'm just not a big fan.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Fri Dec-11-20 11:20 PM

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32. "Haha exactly."
In response to Reply # 30


          

This said it all:

"I don't really like any g-funk/west coast gangsta rap"

Doesn't make Quik or any g-funk/west coast "mediocre," just isn't everyone's cup of tea. Which is fine.

Guess that's what this post is for. But, I agree - that's disrespectful. Quik is heralded by *all* of his peers for a reason.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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stylez dainty
Member since Nov 22nd 2004
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Fri Dec-11-20 11:54 PM

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33. "I don't think he actually IS mediocre. "
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

I guess I wouldn't even call it an opinion. More like a defect in my ears. Clearly people with great taste in hip hop love his music. So I'm surprised I can't find something to latch onto with it. I enjoy most hip hop legends on some level.

----
I check for: Serengeti, Zeroh, Open Mike Eagle, Jeremiah Jae, Moka Only.

  

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blackfoot_female
Member since Jul 15th 2002
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Sat Dec-12-20 07:37 PM

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42. "this is what you should have said initially "
In response to Reply # 33


          

this I can rock with even if I don't agree.

  

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OKdamn
Member since Dec 04th 2010
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Sun Dec-27-20 09:06 AM

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95. "He doesn't razzle and dazzle"
In response to Reply # 27


          

There's no oooohs and ahhhhhs in his production. It's funky and sounds crisp.. but it's not INTERESTING (imo).

  

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Anonymous
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Fri Dec-11-20 07:40 PM

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29. "Scarface’s The Diary is overrated"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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normal35762
Member since Oct 20th 2004
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Sat Dec-12-20 05:04 PM

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40. "To me that's his best album."
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

  

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LeroyBumpkin
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41. "Took my reply."
In response to Reply # 40


  

          

@dseals | @digife
https://digife.com

  

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OKdamn
Member since Dec 04th 2010
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44. "I wish he had stayed in Mr Scarface Is Back mode forever"
In response to Reply # 29


          

..wasnt in love with the low key slow shit

  

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Ray_Snill
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Sun Dec-13-20 01:08 PM

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45. "never got into Dilla beats like that"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

in fact I don't understand the appeal. same with D'angelo. dude is one of the most boring artists I've ever heard.

It Was Written is Nas best album.




<=========================================
https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/PYzh4v9cSf4FDnq3yMQyqNqh79o=/800x0/filters:no_upscale%28%29/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/4079674/jlio.0.gif

  

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LeroyBumpkin
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46. "Your thoughts on Dilla explain your D'Angelo thoughts"
In response to Reply # 45


  

          

Especially if you didn't like VooDoo.
Not sure what that album would sound like if Dilla hadn't come before
and just changed how people made R&B/Soul music between 98-02.

Curious, what are your thoughts on Tribe's Midnight Marauders album?
The whole fender rhodes style Q-Tip used on that album
is kinda like the grandfather to Dilla.

Lryics To Go basically set up almost half of Slum Village Vol. 1.

@dseals | @digife
https://digife.com

  

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Ray_Snill
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47. "RE: Your thoughts on Dilla explain your D'Angelo thoughts"
In response to Reply # 46


  

          

>Curious, what are your thoughts on Tribe's Midnight Marauders
>album?
>The whole fender rhodes style Q-Tip used on that album
>is kinda like the grandfather to Dilla.
>
>Lryics To Go basically set up almost half of Slum Village Vol.
>1.


MM is one of my favorite Tribe joints and Electric Relaxation is my favorite Tribe song, actually one of my favorite hip-hop songs period. funny thing is Dilla produced 2 of my other favorite joints in Dangerous Ground by Keith Murray and Players by Slum Vill but I don't like more joints by him than I like.


<=========================================
https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/PYzh4v9cSf4FDnq3yMQyqNqh79o=/800x0/filters:no_upscale%28%29/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/4079674/jlio.0.gif

  

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normal35762
Member since Oct 20th 2004
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Sun Dec-13-20 11:37 PM

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52. "I feel you on that Dilla."
In response to Reply # 47


  

          

The Labcabin stuff he did was top notch and a few tracks here and there.

  

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obsidianchrysalis
Member since Jan 29th 2003
7750 posts
Mon Dec-14-20 09:21 PM

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56. "Same here with Dilla "
In response to Reply # 45


  

          

And while I like D'Angelo I never really took to his stuff, although I liked Black Messiah more than I thought I would.

To me both artists are genius in their craftsmanship more than their ability to break 'new' ground with their music or subject matter.

I consider a genius to create a *new* way to organize music or a new way to contextualize music. I don't get the sense that either artist is like Dre or RZA or Q-Tip or Bomb Squad in that they created something so new and iconoclastic that I can't unhear it and I don't look at music the same way again.

Like I can't think of a musician in modern times with a better voice than D'Angelo. But I also can't think of many songs of his I'd go out of my way to listen to. To be fair I don't listen to vocalists often so my ear may not be developed enough to fully contextualize how great he is.

And I respect Dilla's ability to make music out of seemingly anything recorded. But its rare that I heard a Dilla song and felt OMG in the same way I did with Q-Tip or Premier or Dre or RZA.

It probably doesn't help that my memory for older music -- the genres both artists pulled from -- is lacking. And so I don't have the background knowledge to fully appreciate their wizardry.

If I were a musician (producer or vocalist) I'd probably think they were geniuses in their own right.

But it's been an interesting experience being on these boards for twenty years and reading post after post about both artists and simply not 'getting' what everyone else felt.

<--- Me when my head hits the pillow

  

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LeroyBumpkin
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Fri Dec-18-20 03:36 PM

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74. "I find this part interesting."
In response to Reply # 56


  

          

>I consider a genius to create a *new* way to organize music or
>a new way to contextualize music. I don't get the sense that
>either artist is like Dre or RZA or Q-Tip or Bomb Squad in
>that they created something so new and iconoclastic that I
>can't unhear it and I don't look at music the same way again.

Let's look at "Neo Soul" in movements:

1ST MOVEMENT / Late 80s, Early 90s
- Soul II Soul
- Omar
- Loose Ends
- Me'Shell Ndegéocello

2ND MOVEMENT / Mid 90s
- D'Angelo
- Erykah Badu
- Maxwell

Now JAY DEE comes in being heavily influenced by Pete Rock & CL Smooth's
The Main Ingredient and Tribe's Midnight Marauders and then makes beats for
The Pharcyde, De La Soul, Brand New Heavies, and Tribe's new album Beats Rhymes & Life.
And although they haven't been released yet, has already made Slum Village Vol. 1 and parts of Vol. 2.

All of this ^^^ changed what's below.

3RD MOVEMENT / 2000
- D'Angelo's Voodoo
- Erykah Badu's Mama's Gun
- Commong LWFC
- Hi-Tek's entire style (see: The Blast)

I say all that to say that Jay Dee WAS the 3rd movement to Neo Soul all by himself.
He alone changed how R&B/Soul and Hip Hop were made. Those albums above don't sound like they do without Jay Dee.
Specifically the drumming, HOW samples are used and flipped, the type of samples used.
Giving everything a feel of a live drummer.

So I read these comments about how Jay Dee wasn't a genius or all that influential,
or that he's not up there with Dre or RZA and I'm confused because LIKE them, his sound influenced an entire era and had people trying to copy him.
There was a time where most of the music coming out underground and on the radio was either BY him or a producer trying their best to BE him.

What's that interlude on Pete Rock's Soul Survivor album?
"This cat was literally changing groups."

And if I may continue, Jay Dee's early sound has a ton of children:

- Nicolay (FE's Connected is a love letter to Jay Dee)
- Tall Black Guy
- Georgia Anne Muldrow
- Waajeed
- Dwele
- A Touch Of Jazz
- Stuart Zender
- Potatohead People
- Owusu & Hannibal
- Early Zo!
- Electric Wire Hustle
- Gwen Bunn

I TOTALLY understand not LIKING the music.
But I feel like there's a lack of understanding of where Jay Dee fits
and the larger concept of the music he made.

@dseals | @digife
https://digife.com

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
20966 posts
Fri Dec-18-20 11:32 PM

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80. "Great breakdown - I agree."
In response to Reply # 74


          

I also think it's worth mentioning that even if his work isn't your cup of tea, the fact that his musical peers praise him up and down and up and down again (and did so before he died) should give some weight to the argument that he's one of the greats and/or a musical genius. Even if I don't like a particular artist's music, if another artist whose opinion (and music) I respect says someone is great, I defer to them even if the end product doesn't move me.

Also re: "I consider a genius to create a *new* way to organize music or a new way to contextualize music," Dre took it to another level obviously (and I'm a Dre stan so this is *not* a knock on him) but it's pretty well documented that Cold 187um/Above the Law "invented" g-funk before Dre took it and ran w/it. Doesn't make him any less of a genius IMO.


>>I consider a genius to create a *new* way to organize music
>or
>>a new way to contextualize music. I don't get the sense that
>>either artist is like Dre or RZA or Q-Tip or Bomb Squad in
>>that they created something so new and iconoclastic that I
>>can't unhear it and I don't look at music the same way
>again.
>
>Let's look at "Neo Soul" in movements:
>
>1ST MOVEMENT / Late 80s, Early 90s
>- Soul II Soul
>- Omar
>- Loose Ends
>- Me'Shell Ndegéocello
>
>2ND MOVEMENT / Mid 90s
>- D'Angelo
>- Erykah Badu
>- Maxwell
>
>Now JAY DEE comes in being heavily influenced by Pete Rock &
>CL Smooth's
> The Main Ingredient and Tribe's Midnight Marauders and then
>makes beats for
>The Pharcyde, De La Soul, Brand New Heavies, and Tribe's new
>album Beats Rhymes & Life.
>And although they haven't been released yet, has already made
>Slum Village Vol. 1 and parts of Vol. 2.
>
>All of this ^^^ changed what's below.
>
>3RD MOVEMENT / 2000
>- D'Angelo's Voodoo
>- Erykah Badu's Mama's Gun
>- Commong LWFC
>- Hi-Tek's entire style (see: The Blast)
>
>I say all that to say that Jay Dee WAS the 3rd movement to Neo
>Soul all by himself.
>He alone changed how R&B/Soul and Hip Hop were made. Those
>albums above don't sound like they do without Jay Dee.
>Specifically the drumming, HOW samples are used and flipped,
>the type of samples used.
>Giving everything a feel of a live drummer.
>
>So I read these comments about how Jay Dee wasn't a genius or
>all that influential,
>or that he's not up there with Dre or RZA and I'm confused
>because LIKE them, his sound influenced an entire era and had
>people trying to copy him.
>There was a time where most of the music coming out
>underground and on the radio was either BY him or a producer
>trying their best to BE him.
>
>What's that interlude on Pete Rock's Soul Survivor album?
>"This cat was literally changing groups."
>
>And if I may continue, Jay Dee's early sound has a ton of
>children:
>
>- Nicolay (FE's Connected is a love letter to Jay Dee)
>- Tall Black Guy
>- Georgia Anne Muldrow
>- Waajeed
>- Dwele
>- A Touch Of Jazz
>- Stuart Zender
>- Potatohead People
>- Owusu & Hannibal
>- Early Zo!
>- Electric Wire Hustle
>- Gwen Bunn
>
>I TOTALLY understand not LIKING the music.
>But I feel like there's a lack of understanding of where Jay
>Dee fits
>and the larger concept of the music he made.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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thebigfunk
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Tue Dec-29-20 01:36 PM

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125. "this is a really thoughtful take"
In response to Reply # 74


          

I need to spend some time with this but I think you're right on point. Dilla's in this weird space now where his ubiquity in terms of being name-dropped almost makes it easy to dismiss/overlook how truly influential and critical he truly was.

You can't listen to new jazz without hearing Dilla.

Insofar as Dilla shaped the soulquarian-ish sound in the early '00s, you trace *that* sound and feel even through folks like Janelle Monae or noname, you start to see that broader lineage where the influence might be less direct but is still very palpable and identifiable.

Thanks for this.

-thebigfunk

~ i could still snort you under the table ~

  

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thebigfunk
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Tue Dec-29-20 02:42 PM

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126. "on D'Angelo"
In response to Reply # 56
Tue Dec-29-20 02:42 PM by thebigfunk

          

>And while I like D'Angelo I never really took to his stuff,
>although I liked Black Messiah more than I thought I would.
>
>To me both artists are genius in their craftsmanship more than
>their ability to break 'new' ground with their music or
>subject matter.
>
>I consider a genius to create a *new* way to organize music or
>a new way to contextualize music.

This distinction is really murky though for at least two reasons. First, "new" is incredibly ambiguous when it comes to musical creation. It's of course subjective to the listener (what is new and radical to one may not seem new or radical to another) but more than that, "new and iconoclastic" exists in this strangely immeasurable space. Totally random but I am reminded of a quote from a religious historian, "... the shift from orthodoxy to heresy may be no more than a shift of emphasis." Which is to say that the new can be far more subtle than we expect even if its effects, in the short or long term, are extensive and unprecedented. We notice the new that is explosive, obvious but that does not describe all things new.

(And why our obsession with new-ness as some criteria for brilliance and greatness? That is another post.)

All that said... I've given my take on what makes D truly unique in my mind before but I'll give a quick version here. I am speaking here mainly of the innovations that come w/Voodoo and later expanded on by Black Messiah. D's uniqueness is about a total inversion of what we expect in vocals.

In music we normally expect a clear melody with harmonies playing a supportive role in the background, or at least a definable leading line. D has not wholly forsaken this - there's still often a leading melodic line - but even from an early point, with Brown Sugar, he's challenged and rethought the way vocals are traditionally structured. It's not even that he's simply inverted them, emphasizing harmony over melody (although this is part of it). He actually scrambles the entire melodic/harmonic project and makes the whole collection of layered vocals the thing, and those layered vocals are never a static thing -- they are very frequently themselves moving, rarely repeating themselves, shifting/swapping parts and emphases, etc.

This is why it's often hard to hum with a song on Voodoo or Black Messiah straight through... if there is a melody, it's at one point or another pushed back into the muddy waters of vocal harmonics that he's built layer by layer. One Mo Gin is a good example of this, where it actually has a pretty clear melodic line in the verses but the chorus is just this dense cluster of voices that sort of/kind of has a melody but on the other hand doesn't at all... instead it has layered moving vocals that *suggest* a melody but never fulfill it, never flesh it out or highlight it. The Root is another good example.

This is why the muddiness of D's lyrics actually make sense to me conceptually. That muddiness/mumbling actually tracks in some ways to how far D has pushed this aspect of his vocals... several tracks on Black Messiah are, to me, even more radical in this regard than Voodoo, and you can't make out half of what he's saying on that album at all lol.

This isn't without precedent. I think we think of Prince when we hear D's dense vocal layers and he does a bit of this vocal inversion but it was never a hallmark for him, almost more incidental (think of the vocals on the closing refrain of "Condition of the Heart"). Riot/Fresh-era Sly is closer imo (think the vocals on Just Like a Baby); a lot of p-funk vocals too. But again, D centers this approach to his entire aesthetic. It's arguably his music's most definable and defining characteristic and I think he pushes it much further than others have. (It might also be the most misunderstood, or at least underappreciated, for reasons that I won't go into here...)

I'll stop there even though I kind of want to talk about this all day... lol. I don't think it's mere craftsmanship though. I think there's a lot of vision behind it - conscious or unconscious - and is why his music in some ways is unlike anything else. It's extremely unorthodox and pushes his music into territory bordering on the avant-garde if you listen to it from a certain perspective.

-thebigfunk

~ i could still snort you under the table ~

  

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LeroyBumpkin
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Tue Dec-29-20 04:11 PM

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128. "Agreed on all of this."
In response to Reply # 126
Tue Dec-29-20 04:23 PM by LeroyBumpkin

  

          

>(And why our obsession with new-ness as some criteria for
>brilliance and greatness? That is another post.)

Yes!

>This isn't without precedent. I think we think of Prince when
>we hear D's dense vocal layers and he does a bit of this vocal
>inversion but it was never a hallmark for him, almost more
>incidental (think of the vocals on the closing refrain of
>"Condition of the Heart"). Riot/Fresh-era Sly is closer imo
>(think the vocals on Just Like a Baby); a lot of p-funk vocals
>too.

Agreed. Great great breakdown.
I honestly think of Marvin and how he harmonizes with himself.
But you're right, the dirty-ness of voodoo/black messiah reach back to
'Riot','Cosmic Slop' and 'Standing On The Verge'.
(I need to go back and re-listen to Condition Of The Heart with this new context).

BUT, I'm SO glad you brought this up because it leads to a point I was going to make in my reply above.
And before I say it, I want to acknowledge it was OKP HotThyng76/SoWhat that originally brought
this to my attention in a post in The Lesson YEARS ago.
And it really opened my eyes to the polarization with not just BS/Voodoo, but D'Angelo the artist.
So HT76 deserves the credit for this but:

Voodoo is one large inside joke.

I have an iTunes playlist that includes songs that were sampled by and influenced Voodoo. The first song is 'Four' by Madhouse/Prince.
If you've listened to almost ANY of the QLS podcast you've heard Quest tell the story of how he charmed D'Angelo at a Roots show playing
the drum part of this song (he tells the story like every other episode). These two dudes are huge liner note music nerds.
The Voodoo sessions are filled with them just messing around playing Sly, Funkadelic, Johnny Guitar Watson, Stevie, Prince, Ohio Players, etc.

They wanted you to listen to Voodoo and hear their favorites.
It's a love letter from D & Quest to fans that love those funk bands.
'Greatdayinthemornin'' is groove for groove sake.
In fact, outside of Left & Right, all the songs are over 5 minutes.
That's groove.

So your explanation of his vocal style above is EXACTLY what fits with this groove they were making.

Again, Voodoo is one large inside joke.

@dseals | @digife
https://digife.com

  

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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
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Tue Dec-22-20 08:51 AM

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91. "jay dee had the potential to be one of the best R&B producers eva"
In response to Reply # 45


          

Dilla was a niche hip-hop producer that was really good, but got stuck in a lane that made him more obscure than he should have been.

And I am right there with you with D'angelo & Voodoo. That album is the audio equivalent of taupe wallpaper. Dude squandered a lot of potential too

  

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CherNic
Member since Aug 18th 2005
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Mon Dec-28-20 10:42 AM

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113. "Voodoo and Black Messiah are both....just okay"
In response to Reply # 91


  

          

I honestly haven't listened to Black Messiah since it dropped. Voodoo I'll listen to a few songs here and there. I don't hear how THAT album *changed* music. Like that album was NOT all that

  

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c71
Member since Jan 15th 2008
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Mon Dec-28-20 06:27 PM

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114. "like a theme of this post - Quik, Dilla - a person has to be "open" to...."
In response to Reply # 113
Mon Dec-28-20 06:28 PM by c71

  

          

..."vibe" with certain things.


I think things get mixed up when certain things seem "undeniable" like "mama's gun" or p-funk in general.


For instance, I'm not open to Maxwell at all, but I can sort of tell what albums of his are "closer" to what seems "better" to me.


I wasn't open to D'angelo's 2nd album for a long time (except for "untitled") but now I can see why it is actually good. I always thought "Black Messiah was very good but messed up bad on the sound quality (like Sly's "riot"). I was always "iffy" on "Brown sugar" and Badu's "Baduism").


But I don't think I'll ever come around to Maxwell or probably Jill Scott or India.Ire, etc. - just not "open" to them - but they all got "somethin'"

  

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CherNic
Member since Aug 18th 2005
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Mon Dec-28-20 09:27 PM

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116. "I can get with this....but I'm also pretty yay or nay and don't change l..."
In response to Reply # 114


  

          

So for D...yay to most of Brown Sugar....yay to a few tracks from Voodoo. But not mindblowing or life changing

I wouldn't even say someone like Erykah is undeniable. I can totally understand why people wouldn't be open to some of her stuff

  

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LeroyBumpkin
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119. "I love that Brown Sugar and Voodoo get this response"
In response to Reply # 116


  

          

Voodoo to me is a groove album.
It's a jam session. There are bootleg recordings of them just
playing their favorite Roy Ayers, P-Funk and James Brown songs in the studio.
Then when a moment came, they merged it into some songs.
Toss in the Jay Dee effect, and boom.
Voodoo.

Brown Sugar wasn't made that way, hence why no song really sounds the same.
Plus, there are more distinct songs with structure.

So I get why people love one over the other.
I like Brown Sugar, but man, Voodoo is amazing.
Definitely the best album of the decade.

@dseals | @digife
https://digife.com

  

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CherNic
Member since Aug 18th 2005
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Tue Dec-29-20 11:52 AM

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121. "THE WHOLE DECADE? lmao from 2000-2010?! Jesus Cristo"
In response to Reply # 119


  

          

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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122. "LOL yea that's one hell of a statement."
In response to Reply # 121


          

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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LeroyBumpkin
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124. "Absolutely."
In response to Reply # 121


  

          

I can't think of anything that touched it.

Maaaaybe Madvillain.

I'm sure someone will bring up these:

Usher's Confessions
Kanye West "Late Registration" and "Graduation"
Amy Winehouse "Back To Black"
Erykah Badu "New Amerykah Part One"
Q-Tip "The Renaissance"

And again, I'm taking best of 2000-09.
I personally don't think any of them touch Voodoo.

@dseals | @digife
https://digife.com

  

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Anonymous
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127. "That’s the list you came up with?"
In response to Reply # 124


  

          

I think I may agree with Voodoo being the best because I do like it that much but other albums I have on that level are things like, Yankee Hotel Foxtrot, Sea Change, Is This It, Kid A, The Fix...off the top

I know I’m leaving out some big albums.

  

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LeroyBumpkin
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129. "Anytime I get to listing albums on here.."
In response to Reply # 127


  

          

...I always forget a ton of stuff.
I get to scrolling on my iTunes and just miss stuff.
Or because I don't see the album art, I miss it.
So don't take that list to heart really.

More so, I wanted to play devil's advocate and list some other albums
in an effort to hear from them why they DON'T think it's one of the best of the decade.
Like, name something that is?

@dseals | @digife
https://digife.com

  

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CherNic
Member since Aug 18th 2005
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Mon Jan-04-21 11:46 AM

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160. "this really comes down to personal preference"
In response to Reply # 129


  

          

Off the top of my head from 00-09 there's just a lot more songs/albums I'd listen to before I got to Voodoo.


Who Is Jill Scott? Vol 1
Emancipation of Mimi
Instant Vintage
Worldwide Underground (not even trolling....I think this is my favorite Badu album lol)
Change It All

and that's just a few r&b....let alone soundtracks or hip hop or whatever else

  

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LeroyBumpkin
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161. "Ha!"
In response to Reply # 160


  

          

>Who Is Jill Scott? Vol 1
>Emancipation of Mimi

OK. Gun to my head I MIGHT give you these two cause I agree they're great albums.
Best of the decade? Better than Voodoo? Eh.

>Instant Vintage

Naw. Yeah this must be a preference cause while I like Instant Vintage,
I think Saddiq is much more talented than his solo albums showcase.
To me, Instant Vintage is Voodoo-lite.
Where Voodoo is almost all groove, Vintage takes some groove elements and makes them into songs.
And I say that knowing that Saddiq is a better songwriter than D.
Also, there's some filler on Instant Vintage:

- Different Times
- Tick Tock
- What's Life Like

>Worldwide Underground (not even trolling....I think this is my
>favorite Badu album lol)

Worldwide is not my favorite from her but the sequence of "Bump It", "Back In The Day" and "I Want You" is just about perfect.
I love all three of those songs and if I play one, I at the least play the other two.

>Change It All

Hold up. You mean Goapele?
Best of the decade? Yeah we just have different preferences.
I find her music boring, calculated and completely unmemorable.

@dseals | @digife
https://digife.com

  

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CherNic
Member since Aug 18th 2005
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172. "just saw this reply. absolutely facinating"
In response to Reply # 161


  

          

>>Who Is Jill Scott? Vol 1
>>Emancipation of Mimi
>
>OK. Gun to my head I MIGHT give you these two cause I agree
>they're great albums.
>Best of the decade? Better than Voodoo? Eh. - agree to disagree
>
>>Instant Vintage
>
>Naw. Yeah this must be a preference cause while I like
>Instant Vintage,
>I think Saddiq is much more talented than his solo albums
>showcase.
>To me, Instant Vintage is Voodoo-lite.
>Where Voodoo is almost all groove, Vintage takes some groove
>elements and makes them into songs.
>And I say that knowing that Saddiq is a better songwriter than
>D.
>Also, there's some filler on Instant Vintage:
>
>- Different Times - THIS IS ONE OF MY FAVORITE SONGS
>- Tick Tock
>- What's Life Like
>
>>Worldwide Underground (not even trolling....I think this is
>my
>>favorite Badu album lol)
>
>Worldwide is not my favorite from her but the sequence of
>"Bump It", "Back In The Day" and "I Want You" is just about
>perfect.
>I love all three of those songs and if I play one, I at the
>least play the other two. - I think VERY highly of these 3 songs/this sequence, but I also like Danger
>
>>Change It All
>
>Hold up. You mean Goapele?
>Best of the decade? Yeah we just have different preferences.
>I find her music boring, calculated and completely
>unmemorable. - this is fucking blasphemous and you need better ears IDC IDC IDC
>

  

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KnowNaim_X
Member since May 14th 2005
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Sun Dec-13-20 06:01 PM

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48. "Aliyah barely had any talent..."
In response to Reply # 0
Sun Dec-13-20 06:03 PM by KnowNaim_X

  

          

She was cute...decent dancer...NOT a singer...that's it.

"When I'm on the mic, a nigga throw down his blunt just to hear what we say...up in this bitch..."-Baatin

  

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Ray_Snill
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49. "^^^^^^^^^^^^^^"
In response to Reply # 48


  

          

dude I crack up everytime someones says if she were alive Beyonce would have no career


>She was cute...decent dancer...NOT a singer...that's it.


<=========================================
https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/PYzh4v9cSf4FDnq3yMQyqNqh79o=/800x0/filters:no_upscale%28%29/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/4079674/jlio.0.gif

  

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c71
Member since Jan 15th 2008
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Sun Dec-13-20 06:58 PM

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50. "Nah...she rip songs from her first album all the way to her last"
In response to Reply # 48


  

          

At your best you are love


If your girl only knew


Those were the days (ESPECIALLY THIS ONE)

It's whatever



She was good for her lane

  

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LeroyBumpkin
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53. "She definitely had talent."
In response to Reply # 48


  

          

She was entertaining.
I don't think she had a strong voice,
but the fact that she knew her lane made her talented.
Plus, the music she made was really good.
She was a vessel for Missy's vocal arrangements and Tim's production.

Jimmy Jam even said that Janet Jackson wasn't the strongest singer,
but she had a voice you felt like you could sing with.
That's what made her popular.

I see Aaliyah in the same vein.

@dseals | @digife
https://digife.com

  

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KnowNaim_X
Member since May 14th 2005
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Mon Dec-14-20 06:16 PM

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55. "Not mad at that..."
In response to Reply # 53


  

          

I thought some of her stuff was ok...but I don't get it. Would she have made it past the early 2000s?

...I don't see it besides her getting more into acting.

I'm in the camp that she is WAY overhyped because of her death...TOO overhyped.

People tend to do that a lot tho...

*shrugs*

"When I'm on the mic, a nigga throw down his blunt just to hear what we say...up in this bitch..."-Baatin

  

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obsidianchrysalis
Member since Jan 29th 2003
7750 posts
Mon Dec-14-20 09:25 PM

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57. "She could sing in the way that Janet could sing"
In response to Reply # 53


  

          

She was like Madonna in the way that she had a tremendous ear for music and could craft songs that touched people.

I don't think she could have the career Beyonce had but Aaliyah seemed like the forerunner to Rihanna. Both artists weren't the best vocalists but they just knew how to make an amazing pop/R&B song.

And both artists just had *it*. They were stars without having the natural musicianship like Whitney or Beyonce or Michael.

<--- Me when my head hits the pillow

  

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normal35762
Member since Oct 20th 2004
12983 posts
Sun Dec-13-20 11:33 PM

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51. "I have to listen to reggae in small doses."
In response to Reply # 0
Sun Dec-13-20 11:34 PM by normal35762

  

          

20 minute intervals with 2 to 4 weeks in between. Im cappin but you know what I mean.

Long road trip with nothing but reggae in system? Not the kid.

  

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obsidianchrysalis
Member since Jan 29th 2003
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Mon Dec-14-20 09:33 PM

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58. "I don't see the appeal of reggaeton"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I feel like the old rock musicians who clowned on hip hop for lacking artistry.

I feel bad about thinking this but every reggaeton song has the exact same beat to my untrained ears.

I'm sure my appreciation would improve if I knew Spanish.

I don't feel this way now but for the longest, I thought Premier and Pete Rock were overrated.

It turned out I just hadn't heard enough of their music back in the late '90's. Spotify's been great for hipping me to their back catalog and I have to say that even though their golden age (back in the mid to late 90's) has passed, they have aged really well and have put out quality music over a long time.

I think Big Boi out-rapped Andre on Stankonia. Or at least I appreciate Big's performance on that album more than I did on the group's first three.

<--- Me when my head hits the pillow

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Mon Dec-14-20 09:46 PM

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59. "Not sure I've read or heard the word "reggaeton" in 6+ years."
In response to Reply # 58


          

But no more than 30 seconds after reading this post I was scrolling facebook and saw a friend who posted "Just thinking: reggaeton gospel music, would that be a good combination ?"

The answer is, of course, no. But the universe is weird.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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DJR
Member since Jan 01st 2005
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Mon Dec-14-20 11:25 PM

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61. "Boot Camp >>>> Wu-Tang"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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Anonymous
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64. "Curious as to how?"
In response to Reply # 61
Tue Dec-15-20 01:24 PM by Anonymous

  

          

Enta Da Stage
Dah Shinin’
Nocturnal
Da Storm (really was not up to par)

36 Chambers
Tical
Cuban Linx
Liquid Swords
Ironman
Forever
Supreme Clientele

And that’s just counting the universally recognized albums.

Even if you argue Enta Da Stage is better than 36, as much as I love Dah Shinin (clearly the best BCC album IMO), it can’t compare to Cuban Linx and Liquid Swords from that year.

Then you would have to be of the opinion that Nocturnal is better than Ironman.

Which I guess I could see the preference, but then Da Storm still has to compete with Forever.

And I didn’t even match up Tical or Supreme Clientele yet.

I can see liking the MCs better and maybe some of the albums, but surely the output is not in BCCs favor.

  

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DJR
Member since Jan 01st 2005
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Tue Dec-15-20 05:05 PM

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67. "RE: Curious as to how?"
In response to Reply # 64
Tue Dec-15-20 05:07 PM by DJR

  

          

Yeah, I just like them better. Just the MCs and the vibe. You’re clearly talking first run, which I agree - Wu-Tang’s output is deeper.

I still liked BCC music into the 2000s though. That Last Stand album, Buckshot’s first album with 9th Wonder, Sean P’s Monkey Barz album and Master P mixtape got more play from me than Wu’s post 2000 stuff. For them it was mainly OB4CL2 and Fishscale that I really got into.

Hell, I even really liked a lot of that Black Moon album from last year.

  

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Anonymous
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69. "RE: Curious as to how?"
In response to Reply # 67


  

          

Yeah I can see that.

I love the Beatminerz production. That vibe is damn near perfect hip-hop.

And as I remember more of the 2000+ releases, I can definitely agree to you to a degree.

I absolutely love Reloaded and think it’s criminally underrated.

Total Eclipse was really strong as well and has one of my favorite Nottz beats ever on there.

I actually really liked the Smif-N-Wessun/Pete Rock collaboration too.

Sean Price has some strong work.

And yes, Black Moon’s album last year is dope as is War Zone which never gets talked about.

I also gave Da Storm a spin on the way home today and I really liked that album too.

Again, overall they’re not reaching heights of early Wu but I see what you’re saying.

  

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DJR
Member since Jan 01st 2005
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70. "Forgot about that Pete/Smif N Wessun album!"
In response to Reply # 69


  

          

Gonna have to give that a listen now! I remember liking it, but it’s been years.

and yeah, Reloaded is another one! That 05-07ish “comeback” was a good time for Bootcamp.

  

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Anonymous
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71. "Say what say what say what...I said My Timbz Do Work!"
In response to Reply # 70


  

          


>and yeah, Reloaded is another one! That 05-07ish
>“comeback” was a good time for Bootcamp.

  

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melmag
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163. "P!"
In response to Reply # 61


  

          


"Wu-Tang Clan aint nothin to fuck with / Boot Camp Clik aint nothin to Wu-Tang."

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
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Tue Dec-15-20 11:34 AM

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62. "THOSE 3 songs should have been cut from streams of thought vol 3"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Yes, THOSE 3.

Sequence should go from the magnificent to steak em

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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javi222
Member since Jun 14th 2003
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Fri Dec-18-20 01:27 PM

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73. "Rza is the best MC from Wu Tang"
In response to Reply # 0


          

The others are only good within their own lane.

  

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Anonymous
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75. "^^^And the winner of the “I want to be different” award goes to..."
In response to Reply # 73


  

          

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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79. "I laughed."
In response to Reply # 75


          

I don't hate on that opinion too hard even tho it's wrong lol.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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javi222
Member since Jun 14th 2003
4135 posts
Sat Dec-19-20 01:11 AM

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82. "RE: I laughed."
In response to Reply # 79


          

Rza was always the most versatile MC of group. Otherwise, who? Gza with the repetitive flow? Raekwon/Ghost with the same ol drug raps?.

In his prime , he is lyrically as good or better than the others.

I would rate Meth 2nd

  

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Anonymous
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83. "RZA sounds the same on every single verse LOL"
In response to Reply # 82


  

          

>Rza was always the most versatile MC of group. Otherwise,
>who? Gza with the repetitive flow? Raekwon/Ghost with the same
>ol drug raps?.
>
>In his prime , he is lyrically as good or better than the
>others.
>
>I would rate Meth 2nd
>
>

And somehow works in mentioning pussy lips and his dick lol

  

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DJR
Member since Jan 01st 2005
15970 posts
Sat Dec-19-20 09:22 AM

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85. "Inspectah Deck is the best MC from Wu-Tang"
In response to Reply # 73


  

          

on their group albums, in their prime run. So, first two albums.

  

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OKdamn
Member since Dec 04th 2010
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Sun Dec-27-20 09:09 AM

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96. "Obviously Raekwon"
In response to Reply # 73


          

Lyrically. Far as rocking the mic? Ghost

  

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Anonymous
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101. "The main 5 MCs all have their own strength "
In response to Reply # 96


  

          

Method Man is the best MC - rocking a crowd and flow-wise
Deck is the best lyricist but GZA has an argument
Raekwon is the best as far as his style and his mystique
Ghost has the best discography

  

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Adwhizz
Member since Nov 12th 2003
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Tue Dec-29-20 09:32 AM

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118. "I love the Bobby Digital Albums probably more than the"
In response to Reply # 73


  

          

average Wu head

but ehhhhhh

R.I.P. Loud But Wrong Guy
Dec 29th 2009 - Dec 17th 2017

  

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DJR
Member since Jan 01st 2005
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Fri Dec-18-20 06:13 PM

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76. "The concept of the Black Album was a lot better than the execution "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Shit is mid.

  

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Anonymous
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77. "Absolutely agree"
In response to Reply # 76


  

          

I actually posted once how someone like Black Thought needs to actually execute that idea.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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81. "Wait what was the concept ?"
In response to Reply # 76


          

The concept I remembered was 12 tracks, 12 producers which he obviously ditched.

Thought that would've been dope.

I love the Black Album but it is flawed no question.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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DJR
Member since Jan 01st 2005
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Sat Dec-19-20 09:07 AM

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84. "Yeah that’s what I meant - 12 tracks, 12 producers"
In response to Reply # 81


  

          

He abandoned that. He got Quik, but...the execution wasn’t there. Major disappointment with that track.

It was amazing that he put 9th on the album. I can’t state that enough. And Threat was cool but.....every single rapper in the Justus League had better beats than that from 9th in ‘03. And I’m not blaming 9th there. I recall Jay told him he wanted him to do something with that R. Kelly record.

No Premo. No Pete. But an Eminem beat. Lmaosmh.

And that whisper flow thing he kept doing at that time - I wasn’t a fan of that.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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87. "Oh word yea - I agree."
In response to Reply # 84


          

>He abandoned that. He got Quik, but...the execution wasn’t
>there. Major disappointment with that track.
>
>It was amazing that he put 9th on the album. I can’t state
>that enough. And Threat was cool but.....every single rapper
>in the Justus League had better beats than that from 9th in
>‘03. And I’m not blaming 9th there. I recall Jay told him
>he wanted him to do something with that R. Kelly record.
>
>No Premo. No Pete. But an Eminem beat. Lmaosmh.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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phemom
Member since Oct 22nd 2004
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Mon Dec-21-20 07:19 PM

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86. "I never thought Jay would go through with that."
In response to Reply # 81


          

Not because of Hov tho....Just, Ye and Pharrell were too hot for Jay to just use 1 beat from them at that point.

Hov should've scrapped Justify My Thug once he couldn't get Madonna....I think if Jay would've actually gotten her vocals everyone would like that song more. It should've been switched out for Ignorant Shit.

I'm curious what the one normal Hov co-hort who didn't make the album sent tho: Swizz.



phemom's the name, all-star writer/
searching 4 journalistic fame, mindframe igniter....www.twitter.com/hayabusaage

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Mon Dec-21-20 09:33 PM

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88. "RE: I never thought Jay would go through with that."
In response to Reply # 86


          

>Not because of Hov tho....Just, Ye and Pharrell were too hot
>for Jay to just use 1 beat from them at that point.

True - although I didn't love "Change Clothes." It's fine but not at the standard of some of their previous collabs IMO. Allure is an all timer tho.


>Hov should've scrapped Justify My Thug once he couldn't get
>Madonna....I think if Jay would've actually gotten her vocals
>everyone would like that song more. It should've been switched
>out for Ignorant Shit.

I didn't even know Madonna was in line for that song. That'd have been .. interesting.


>I'm curious what the one normal Hov co-hort who didn't make
>the album sent tho: Swizz.

That's addition by subtraction IMO lol. Swizz sucks.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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phemom
Member since Oct 22nd 2004
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89. "RE: I never thought Jay would go through with that."
In response to Reply # 88


          

The Madonna thing was fucked because Hov finishing albums in 3 weeks is dumb and since she was out of the country they couldn't get her cleared.

phemom's the name, all-star writer/
searching 4 journalistic fame, mindframe igniter....www.twitter.com/hayabusaage

  

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OKdamn
Member since Dec 04th 2010
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Sun Dec-27-20 09:14 AM

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97. "It's the beats"
In response to Reply # 76


          

It's true. His songs are stuck in whatever year they were made in. He loved dated sounding production.

  

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Anonymous
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99. "That’s because he ALWAYS followed trends"
In response to Reply # 97


  

          

Reasonable Doubt - his version of Illmatic/Ready To Die/Doe Or Die
Vol 1 - his version of Life After Death with the Bad Boy shine
Vol 2 - hopped on the Swizz/Ruff Ryder train
Vol 3 - hopped on the Timbaland train
Dynasty - hopped on the Neptunes train
Blueprint - Kanye/Just said they were making beat for Ghost like Supreme Clientele
BP 2 - Everyone was still hot; Kanye/Neptunes/Just/Timbaland
Black Album - more of the same formula

That’s why all his albums so like that

  

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OKdamn
Member since Dec 04th 2010
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102. "Don't forget 4:44 - emo beats"
In response to Reply # 99
Sun Dec-27-20 02:24 PM by OKdamn

          

Lmao

  

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Oak27
Member since Apr 17th 2005
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Tue Dec-29-20 12:42 PM

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123. "RE: That’s because he ALWAYS followed trends"
In response to Reply # 99
Tue Dec-29-20 12:47 PM by Oak27

  

          

>Dynasty - hopped on the Neptunes train

There's literally ONE Neptunes beat on this album. If anything this album was more of a prequel to the Blueprint formula of Just/Bink/Kanye.

And The Blueprint is anything but following hip hop trends. The late 90s/early 2000s were full of bloated 20ish track albums with useless skits/interludes, guests on nearly every track, a hodgepodge of every popular producer, and songs for every occasion (club tracks, street tracks, girl tracks, etc). The Blueprint was 13 tracks, all songs (no skits/interludes) a handful of producers providing mostly a cohesive sound (there are def tracks that defy that sound ie "Jigga That N") and only one guest spot.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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130. "Yea I had a few beefs w/that analysis."
In response to Reply # 123
Tue Dec-29-20 05:23 PM by Brew

          

You hit on some good ones I share.

Another one is:

>Reasonable Doubt - his version of Illmatic/Ready To Die/Doe Or Die

Say what you want about Jay's career-long obsession w/Nas and Big but RD sounded absolutely NOTHING like Illmatic neither sonically nor lyrically. And while the mafiaso persona Jay took up throughout RD may have had some roots in what Big did lyrically on Ready to Die, RtD was Bad Boy's attempt to rival/mimic the dominant Death Row/West Coast sound of the time, while Jay stuck almost exclusively with the mafiaso theme, both lyrically and sonically, on RD. There's barely a comparison to be had.

I'll have to revisit the rest later but that one stuck out to me as particularly incorrect/disingenuous.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Anonymous
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131. "RE: Yea I had a few beefs w/that analysis."
In response to Reply # 130


  

          

RD is his version of those albums that dropped 2 years later.

But content-wise and style is it in the same lane.

3 Premier tracks on Illmatic, 3 Premier tracks on Reasonable Doubt.

Obviously they don’t sound exactly alike but it is his version of those albums.

Look at the back of Doe Or Die and Reasonable Doubt and honestly tell me those pictures ain’t damn near identical LOL.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Tue Dec-29-20 05:40 PM

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134. "Yea Doe or Die I wasn't really gonna argue haha."
In response to Reply # 131
Tue Dec-29-20 05:42 PM by Brew

          

>RD is his version of those albums that dropped 2 years
>later.
>
>But content-wise and style is it in the same lane.
>
>3 Premier tracks on Illmatic, 3 Premier tracks on Reasonable
>Doubt.
>
>Obviously they don’t sound exactly alike but it is his
>version of those albums.
>
>Look at the back of Doe Or Die and Reasonable Doubt and
>honestly tell me those pictures ain’t damn near identical
>LOL.

Cuz I think on *that* analogy you're definitely on to something.

But even though by literal definition, you could say that getting Preem to do tracks on his album - something that like 85% of NY MCs were doing at the time - is "trend hopping," I don't think that pursuing and getting Preem beats in and of itself fits the spirit of the argument that you were trying to make.

In other words, what NY MC *wouldn't* have wanted Preem beats at that time if they were able to get them ??

Now if the Preem songs came out sounding even *somewhat* like NY State of Mind, Memory Lane, and Represent, I'd say that you'd have a good basis for argument that Jay was trend hopping. But D'Evils, Friend or Foe, and Bring it On are quintessential RD tracks, and couldn't really possibly sound more different from the 3 Illmatic tracks. So I just think that particular argument falls flat.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Anonymous
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135. "I guess but...Shawn Carter to Jay-Z damn you on Jaz..."
In response to Reply # 134


  

          

When you look at how Jay came into the game rapping like Fu-Schnickens to rocking with Jaz etc and then flipping it to his version of mid-90s hustler/mafioso rap, it’s hard to deny he hasn’t been following trends from the start.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Tue Dec-29-20 08:17 PM

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136. "Oh yea - you won't get much argument from me that Jay has a history."
In response to Reply # 135
Tue Dec-29-20 08:20 PM by Brew

          

There are numerous examples of his trend hopping and/or dick riding, no question. I just took umbrage with a few of your specific examples is all. But overall I know what you're getting at.

But I would also argue that he set a few trends along the way as well. I think Oak's argument about The Blueprint is a good one and one I'd agree with.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Anonymous
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138. "The main trend be set was..."
In response to Reply # 136


  

          

Telling everyone you’re the greatest over and over again until they finally believe you.

  

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DJR
Member since Jan 01st 2005
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Tue Dec-29-20 10:49 PM

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139. "He killed jerseys"
In response to Reply # 138


  

          

and had everybody wearing poorly fitting untucked “button ups” when they went out, thinking they really looked classy. What an awful time, lmao.

  

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Anonymous
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140. "RE: He killed autotune as well"
In response to Reply # 139


  

          

  

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Anonymous
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132. "What was the single?"
In response to Reply # 123


  

          

You guys are taking this too literally.

I’m not saying the entire album is ALL Neptunes but the single was and that was for a reason.

The rest of that album sounded very much along the lines of what was coming out at that time.

Vol 3 had the terrible Mariah song which was popular at the time to have the big name R&B collabo like Busta and Janet, etc.

As far as Blueprint...Just and Kanye said themselves who they were modeling the production after and who they were making the beats for so it’s hard for you to argue that point I made.

I said nothing about the length of the album or the interludes.

  

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spidey
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78. "RE: Unpopular music opinions you got revisited."
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Dec-18-20 08:52 PM by spidey

  

          

Fuck it, I'm in the house on some covid shit, I'm in...Not feeling MOP, with the exception of a hand full of tracks. Just kinda redundant, and not near as creative on the Mic with that hard shit as their peers of that time like Wu, Bootcamp, Mobb, etc....And I'm a huge Gang Starr head, and should like this brothers. Peace...

Integrity is the Cornerstone of Artistry...

  

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FunkyBoss
Member since Aug 31st 2002
1163 posts
Sat Dec-26-20 08:24 PM

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93. "give me janet over michael"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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DJR
Member since Jan 01st 2005
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137. "I’m with you"
In response to Reply # 93


  

          

From Control to Velvet Rope was pretty much a flawless run.

  

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Anonymous
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100. "Ready To Die is not a Top 5 album of 1994"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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LeroyBumpkin
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104. "* opens iTunes *"
In response to Reply # 100


  

          

* opens 1994 smart folder *

1. Pete Rock & CL Smooth 'The Main Ingredient'
2. NaS 'Illmatic'
3. Gang Starr 'Hard To Earn'
4. Jeru Tha Damaja 'The Sun Rises In The East'
5. Redman 'Dare Iz A Darkside'
6. Digable Planets 'Blowout Comb'

7. The Notorious B.I.G.

8. O.C. 'Word...Life'
9. Beastie Boys 'Ill Communication'
10. Casual 'Fear Itself'
11. The Roots 'Do You Want More'
12. The Beatnuts 'Street Level'
13. Organized Konfusion 'Stress: The Extinction Agenda'
14. Artifacts 'Between A Rock And A Hard Place'
15. Scarface 'The Diary'

OK I agree. But I definitely had to actually check.
RTD's singles are so large, it's hard not to think of the album itself as top 5.

@dseals | @digife
https://digife.com

  

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Anonymous
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105. "Damn...and you didn’t even name Kast or Common"
In response to Reply # 104


  

          

>* opens 1994 smart folder *
>
>1. Pete Rock & CL Smooth 'The Main Ingredient'
>2. NaS 'Illmatic'
>3. Gang Starr 'Hard To Earn'
>4. Jeru Tha Damaja 'The Sun Rises In The East'
>5. Redman 'Dare Iz A Darkside'
>6. Digable Planets 'Blowout Comb'
>
>7. The Notorious B.I.G.
>
>8. O.C. 'Word...Life'
>9. Beastie Boys 'Ill Communication'
>10. Casual 'Fear Itself'
>11. The Roots 'Do You Want More' - this is 1995
>12. The Beatnuts 'Street Level'
>13. Organized Konfusion 'Stress: The Extinction Agenda'
>14. Artifacts 'Between A Rock And A Hard Place'
>15. Scarface 'The Diary'
>
>OK I agree. But I definitely had to actually check.
>RTD's singles are so large, it's hard not to think of the
>album itself as top 5.
>

  

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LeroyBumpkin
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120. "Forgot both."
In response to Reply # 105


  

          

Blame the old age.

@dseals | @digife
https://digife.com

  

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DJR
Member since Jan 01st 2005
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106. "I came in Ready To D....isagree "
In response to Reply # 104


  

          

but I can see it. I’d probably have it over Jeru. Hard to Earn, Dare Iz a Darkside, Blowout Comb, and Ready To Die - I’d probably end up with a different order every few months. And yeah, I’d have Common and Outkast in that mix too, as well as The Diary. And I’m a big Regulate...G Funk Era fan. What a year though.

Just played Blowout Comb while driving around running errands yesterday. Incredible album.

  

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Anonymous
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107. "Blowout Comb doesn’t get the credit it deserves"
In response to Reply # 106


  

          

I always put Blowout Comb and Ill Communication together...just dope albums showcasing hip-hop blended with others genres.

My top 3 are;
The Main Ingredient
Word...Life
Illmatic

After that, I could easily go;
Southernplayalisticadillacmuzik
Resurrection
The Sun Rises In The East
Hard To Earn

all over Ready To Die

Dare Iz A Darkside and Tical are both my shit even though they are flawed.

Stress and Street Level both have arguments for top 10 spots.

I agree that G Funk Era is dope as hell.

Between A Rock And A Hard Place is a slept on classic.

I’m also a big fan of Non-Fiction and Everything Is Everything

  

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DJR
Member since Jan 01st 2005
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Sun Dec-27-20 10:42 PM

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108. "For me the only definite is 1.Main Ingredient 2. Illmatic "
In response to Reply # 107


  

          

  

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OKdamn
Member since Dec 04th 2010
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Mon Dec-28-20 12:06 AM

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109. "Damn what a list"
In response to Reply # 104
Mon Dec-28-20 12:11 AM by OKdamn

          

I think Public Enemy Muse Ik In R Mess Age or however it was spelled deserves a mention

Also Arrested Development Zingalamaduni

  

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Anonymous
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111. "I need to check that out again"
In response to Reply # 109


  

          

I had it when it dropped but haven’t listened since 94.

The Most Beautifullest Thing In This World is also dope and the title track is one of my all-time favorites. That beat never gets old.

I always like the second LOTUG album.

Slick Rick’s Behind Bars had some joints!

MC Eiht’s We Come Strapped and Coolio’s It Takes A Thief got spins from me

  

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OKdamn
Member since Dec 04th 2010
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Mon Dec-28-20 06:33 PM

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115. "Black Sheep Non Fiction"
In response to Reply # 111
Mon Dec-28-20 06:39 PM by OKdamn

          

Brand Nubian Everything Is Everything
Pmd- Shade Business
What a year..

  

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spenzalii
Member since Jan 02nd 2004
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Wed Dec-30-20 05:38 PM

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142. "I still cannot get into Non Fiction"
In response to Reply # 115


  

          

Didn't like it when it dropped. Tried it again last year, same thing. 2, maybe 3 songs worked for me, and one was a remix (Salaam Remi's mix of Without a Doubt). Coming off A Wolf in Sheep's Clothing it was a massive disappointment for me.

<-- Dave Thomas knows what's up...
__________________________

Jay: Look here homie, any nigga can get a hit record. This here is about respect.
Game: Like Gladys Knight.
Jay: Aretha Franklin.
Game: Word, I like her too.
Jay: Nigga...

  

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Anonymous
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156. "I love that shit"
In response to Reply # 142


  

          

Granted I didn’t hear AWISC when it dropped because I wasn’t at the age of copping albums in 91.

So Non-Fiction was my first album by them and I honestly don’t even get the hate.

  

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LeroyBumpkin
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157. "Non-Fiction gets hate cause it wasn't Wolf."
In response to Reply # 156


  

          

Autobiographical
City Lights
Do Your Thing
EFFECT
Freak Y'all

It's a solid album.

@dseals | @digife
https://digife.com

  

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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
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Thu Dec-31-20 07:34 AM

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143. "not even close to it, either"
In response to Reply # 100


          

  

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hammam
Member since Nov 03rd 2011
394 posts
Wed Dec-30-20 02:59 AM

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141. "reading all these posts, GAH DAMN y'all niggas have some wild takes LOL"
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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ToeJam
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144. "Prince is CORNY"
In response to Reply # 0
Thu Dec-31-20 06:07 PM by ToeJam

          

Cornball aesthetic/gimmic, corny songs that don't hold up, with a few undeniable hits. I am never ever in the mood to listen to a Prince album or especially watch his CORNBALL ASS MOVIES.

Burn me alive.
I'm the only one really bringing it on this thread.

  

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Anonymous
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Thu Dec-31-20 06:39 PM

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145. "NY State Of Mind Pt 2 > NY State Of Mind"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I’m not saying it’s greater because I recognize the impact of the first track on Illmatic and how insanely dope that shit is.

But man...Pt 2 gets no credit. The atmosphere that beat creates for Nas to paint those pictures is something special.

The original is uncut raw but that second one is just a thing of beauty to me.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Fri Jan-01-21 07:02 PM

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148. "I hate sequels but yea - that song goes hard."
In response to Reply # 145


          

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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OKdamn
Member since Dec 04th 2010
1074 posts
Mon Jan-11-21 02:14 PM

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174. "Yep"
In response to Reply # 145


          

  

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FunkyBoss
Member since Aug 31st 2002
1163 posts
Thu Dec-31-20 09:14 PM

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146. "Apparently some people think SD50 production was good? "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

After a general hip hop convo yesterday, this dude had me convinced that people actually thought SD50 beats were something to write home about.

I’m not saying their beats were trash but they were just ordinary dime a dozen shit, middle of the pack type of music.... borderline trash

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
15394 posts
Fri Jan-01-21 06:23 PM

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147. "Fetch the Bolt Cutters was...meh "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I always take vacation the week between Xmas and nye

Spend a lot of that time listening to music, going through the best of lists and catching up on what I’ve missed

This album was the consensus AOTY

Remember there was some noise when it was first released, but I attributed that to her time gap in album releases

AOTY though...lemme check that out

...meh...

Similar to my Beatles post, I just wasn’t feeling the album...unimpressed...underwhelming

After a few songs...they started to sound very similar

Finished...nothing stood out to me

Sounded like something that could be made on a laptop with headphones

The YT gurl angst was really out of place in 2020

This album wouldn’t make my list of anything and I won’t be listening to it a 2nd time.

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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javi222
Member since Jun 14th 2003
4135 posts
Fri Jan-01-21 10:03 PM

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149. "Gift of Gab is one of the GOATs"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Breath control, lyrical, versatile, multiple flows etc. he has it all

I don’t think he gets the credit because he is from the west coast underground (similar to Madlib prior to working with Dilla) and content does not fall under the usual

Definitely in my top 10 along with Thought, Monch, Mikah 9, Andre 3000 etc

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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150. "I agree with this. I love Gab so much."
In response to Reply # 149
Fri Jan-01-21 11:36 PM by Brew

          

You're right about his technical skills but it's also worth mentioning that his content/subject matter is top notch, too. He's one of those guys who's hit on a ton of topics and done it all well.

Hearing his voice on a track just makes me smile. Not only because I just like his voice and his rhymes but he generally seems like a good dude. Easy to root for.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
13889 posts
Mon Jan-04-21 11:46 AM

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159. "i love gab too"
In response to Reply # 149


  

          

he is in my top 10, at times top 5.

  

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FunkyBoss
Member since Aug 31st 2002
1163 posts
Sat Jan-02-21 08:52 PM

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151. "Cuban Linx album artwork is complete garbage "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Too many people say it’s a dope cover, dope photo, dope layout. nah man that album’s music is perfection the artwork though is doodoo stains

  

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Anonymous
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Sat Jan-02-21 11:49 PM

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152. "You fuckin crazy "
In response to Reply # 151


  

          

  

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obsidianchrysalis
Member since Jan 29th 2003
7750 posts
Sun Jan-03-21 04:38 PM

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154. "I won't say it's garbage but it's not good. "
In response to Reply # 151


  

          

Not like The Chronic or Ready to Die

<--- Me when my head hits the pillow

  

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Anonymous
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155. "You guys have got to be fucking joking "
In response to Reply # 154
Sun Jan-03-21 05:48 PM by Anonymous

  

          

The Chronic?

Ready To Die which was completely copied?

  

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FunkyBoss
Member since Aug 31st 2002
1163 posts
Sun Jan-03-21 09:09 PM

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158. "Think he means it’s not as garbage as chronic or ready to die "
In response to Reply # 155


  

          

True but still garbage

  

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melmag
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164. "Its fucking iconic man"
In response to Reply # 151


  

          

Also has been reimagined so many times, how can it be wack??

https://factmag-images.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/hulk2_numwvr.jpg
https://cont.p-cdn.us/images/public/int/5/2/5/8/094922958525_1080W_1080H.jpg
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSt3a9rxmlvk92rxuzlU8PItFXoghwphvTa8A&usqp=CAU
https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/5d49fb85c612420001eaf2ae/1567648684623-6H9S8URR9MOXQ5VKD9DR/image1+%281%29.jpeg?content-type=image%2Fjpeg

I remember staring at it entranced for a good hour before even buying it lol

  

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Anonymous
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153. "Soul On Ice is not a good album"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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Birdzeye
Member since Feb 29th 2008
422 posts
Sat Jan-09-21 06:23 PM

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168. "RE: Soul On Ice is not a good album"
In response to Reply # 153


          

I’ve listened to it recently, and sure, there are some aspect I could criticize, like the questionable facts on Nature of the Threat, and that the production doesn’t compare to some of the classics from that period. But I think it does come across as a well rapped, cohesive album, with an impressive mc. I feel like Ras was good at sticking to a topic/theme for a song, and his own personality was evident on the album. I’m still a fan of it, and would recommend it (with a few caveats).

Lurk everyday.. Post once a month..

  

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Anonymous
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Sat Jan-09-21 07:10 PM

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169. "RE: Soul On Ice is not a good album"
In response to Reply # 168


  

          

I actually do like the album...maybe for nostalgia purposes.

But when I compare it to others from 96...*shrugs*

  

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Ray_Snill
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Mon Jan-04-21 09:03 PM

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162. "JC was the real star of N'Sync"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Justin just had a better personality



<=========================================
https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/PYzh4v9cSf4FDnq3yMQyqNqh79o=/800x0/filters:no_upscale%28%29/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/4079674/jlio.0.gif

  

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melmag
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Mon Jan-04-21 10:25 PM

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165. "Big L's debut was trash"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


the rapping was excellent, but the music experience was severely lacking

  

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DJR
Member since Jan 01st 2005
15970 posts
Sat Jan-09-21 08:05 PM

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171. "He was talented and it was horribly sad that he passed "
In response to Reply # 165


  

          

But there’s people who act like he’s one of the greatest rappers of all time, and it’s ridiculous.

  

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Anonymous
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Mon Jan-11-21 10:59 AM

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173. "I definitely wouldn’t say trash"
In response to Reply # 165


  

          

But I will say that back in 95 I was not one of the top albums at all.

It got 4 mics in the Source but it probably was more like a 3.5.

It has nostalgia working for it today and it does have some great songs.

It also has some real suspect horrorcore lyrics about “raping dead bitches” and I’ve never liked shit like that and it sounds even worse today and makes All Black and Danger Zone cringe worthy.

  

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javi222
Member since Jun 14th 2003
4135 posts
Wed Jan-13-21 01:28 AM

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175. "Jadakiss and Styles P are overrated"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Always sounded to me like a watered down version of Raekwon and Ghostface Killah

  

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Anonymous
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Wed Jan-13-21 09:44 AM

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176. "Agreed"
In response to Reply # 175


  

          

Although I never thought of them as Rae and Ghost lite and don’t agree with that.

  

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