All dope/classic material but which one do you rock with the most? Which album has the best sequencing, production, songwriting, etc?

Poll result (29 votes) Things Fall Apart (9 votes) Vote Black On Both Sides (4 votes) Vote Like Water For Chocolate (7 votes) Vote Fantastic, Vol. 2 (4 votes) Vote Train Of Thought (5 votes) Vote

Train of Thought was just a perfect storm album, IMO. Had you put Resurrection or One Day...in place of LWFC my answer may be different. Maybe not though.

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"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

werd.

Just the embody of nagchampa in the air when I heard this album and felt the music is more about culture. Its like the brown sugar for me. Also Train of Thought, I didnt even know what album that was because I never knew it was called that. We just called it Reflection Eternal

we keep it moving,

.....although BOBS is great too, TFA just has more great songs ..plus I like Black Thought more than Mos

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For me, it's hands down Black on Both Sides. Mos put together my idea of a perfect hip hop album: elite lyricism, diverse production that fits the artist, and a willingness to make unconventional music. It plays front to back for me and sounds just as good today as it did when I first heard it.



They're all classic albums that have gotten plenty of play and will forever, but I'd rank it like this:

BOBS
LWFC
TFA
FV2
TOT

>
>
>
>
>They're all classic albums that have gotten plenty of play and
>will forever, but I'd rank it like this:
>
>BOBS
>LWFC
>TFA
>FV2
>TOT


agreed

we keep it moving,

To my ears, that stretch of Forth and Back, Untitled/Fantastic, Fall in Love, Get Dis Money is more rewarding than any portion of those other albums. I would probably say the same about the first six songs (Intro, Conant Gardens, I Don't Know, Jealousy, Climax, Hold Tight) and the last three (2U4U, Go Ladies, Thelonius) as well. And Players is...Players. It still gives me the same feeling whenever I hear it.

I'd say Mos' probably has the best songwriting. Best production would be a toss up between Vol. 2 and LWFC. And best sequencing, I'd say Vol. 2 or TFA. These albums, aside from Vol. 2, mostly feature one prominent vocalist. With Mos arguably being the most dynamic, stylistically. But I ultimately prefer the group interplay of Slum, the looseness/playfulness of their approaches and lyrics, and the way they dance with the incredible production. Those other albums have better technical and conceptual rhyming on them, for sure. But listening to Vol. 2 feel like less of a chore, comparatively.

If I had to give my personal ranking, it would go:

Vol. 2
LWFC
BOBS
TFA
TOT (I'm just not that big a fan of Kweli solo)



>All dope/classic material but which one do you rock with the
>most? Which album has the best sequencing, production,
>songwriting, etc?

Things fall apart would be 3rd for me.

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LWFC ... why? Nag Champa.

*
*
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I honor the place in you in which the entire Universe dwells.

When I first looked at the list, I thought --- that's tough.

But then I sat with it a second and knew right away. If we're talking about the record I am mostly likely to play top to bottom, the one that regularly returns to my rotation, it's TFA. Every other record has at least three to four tracks that I skip and rambles in areas. My reaction to them is more dependent on my mood. TFA doesn't need any skipping (save the last track) and can work in pretty much any setting for me. Lyrically it is packed with high points, and from a musical perspective, everything clicks on TFA. It is innovative in all the right spots, familiar when it should be.

Full order would be:
TFA
BOBS
Fantastic
LWFC
TOT

Two caveats:
#1 It pains me to put LWFC at #4 -- of the whole bunch, I think I appreciate its total vision the most. But large chunks are skippable for me these days.

#2 BOBS is a very close second, mainly because of Mos's nearly flawless rhymes. All in all, I probably play tracks from BOBS more often than TFA - but I rarely listen to the whole thing from top to bottom, and the end especially wanders.



-thebigfunk

~ i could still snort you under the table ~

this feels almost impossible

I'm gonna go
TOT
TFA
LWFC
FV2
BOBS

Black on Both Sides is the only one I could immediately look at and say, "that won't be number one"...I think it's the least consistent by far.
The top four are extremely close though.

The sequencing is perfect. And that album has at least three of my fav Jay Dee beats of all time.

Fantastic Vol. 2 is probably like #2 on this list for me.

Heat
Thelonius
Nag Champa

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BOBS and LWFC are both so goid. i skip a lot of LWFC though

>RE: Aquemini



*Edited for idiocy*

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"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

They don't all sound like Aquemini but they all benefited from its innovation and followed its lead relevant to each MC(s).

That's why I always like Kast the best because they always seemed to be one step ahead.

>They don't all sound like Aquemini but they all benefited
>from its innovation and followed its lead relevant to each
>MC(s).

I think that the Soulquarian/Okayplayer artists were already sort of left-field artists well prior to 1998 which is why they were all drawn to eachother. That said, I guess I can see the argument that OutKast opened a door for that type of "alternative" hip-hop to be acceptable in the mainstream. So again, I do see where you're coming from to a certain extent.


>That's why I always like Kast the best because they always
>seemed to be one step ahead.

They certainly did. I miss them so much.

Furthermore their music hasn't aged a fucking day. Seriously I listen to so many of their tracks regularly (I can't remember the last time two straight days passed without my playing a 'Kast track) and they still resonate and sound fresh every single time they come on. They were truly a once-in-a-lifetime act.

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"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

I honestly used to feel like ?uest always had a secret competition with Kast.

The Roots came out as the live band which was a first and they were great but then there was Kast and ONP utilizing live instruments and making it translate better on record. Illadelph was essentially The Roots sounding like they were producing beats as opposed to playing as a band.

And then Kast comes with songs like SpottieOttie and Liberation and I have to imagine ?uest feeling like he was getting beat at his own game. Because while they were trying to sound more like the east coast production, Kast was pushing the boundaries and I believe after Aquemini, The Roots and Common started going in that direction.

I do agree they were left of center already, but I just don't think they had the foresight that Kast did and were trying to find their way to be different yet still fit in while Kast was just doing whatever the fuck they wanted.

>I honestly used to feel like ?uest always had a secret
>competition with Kast.

^^speculation, as you recognized. So while I don't necessarily agree with this theory I can certainly understand how you came up with it, if that makes sense.


>The Roots came out as the live band which was a first and they
>were great but then there was Kast and ONP utilizing live
>instruments and making it translate better on record.
>Illadelph was essentially The Roots sounding like they were
>producing beats as opposed to playing as a band.

Dr. Dre out West was also utilizing live instruments to replay samples, so it could be said that he was doing it better as well.

That said your last point is a good one, Illadelph was certainly the first Roots album that sounded like an actual ALBUM rather than just a jam band having fun in the studio (and translating that fun into good music, for the record....but the point remains)


>And then Kast comes with songs like SpottieOttie and
>Liberation and I have to imagine ?uest feeling like he was
>getting beat at his own game. Because while they were trying
>to sound more like the east coast production, Kast was pushing
>the boundaries and I believe after Aquemini, The Roots and
>Common started going in that direction.

Yea I guess I just never thought about ?uest caring all that much about being experimental up through that point, in other words I don't know that it was "his/their own game" but this is the point where I totally understand where you would've come up with this theory. I don't think the Roots or the Soulquarians/Okayplayer crew were alone in doing so but I do think OutKast kinda set the bar for experimental hip-hop so I do get where you're coming from.


>I do agree they were left of center already, but I just don't
>think they had the foresight that Kast did and were trying to
>find their way to be different yet still fit in while Kast was
>just doing whatever the fuck they wanted.

Yep. Totally agreed.

I guess my main disconnect with your theory is your belief that OutKast had *that* much of a direct influence on The Roots/The Soulquarians/Okayplayer. Your larger point about OutKast being a step ahead of everyone in hip-hop as far as pushing hip-hop's boundaries I agree with and have always agreed with/thought independently myself forever, so we're on the same page there. I just don't know that I buy the "?uest had OutKast in mind specifically while making Illadelph/TFA/etc" theory. Especially since, like you originally said, none of the Souquarian-era records sound at all like OutKast records (besides Electric Circus, but Common has admitted to being influenced by Dre3k at that time so that's been covered). If there was really that kind of direct influence, I would think that a lot of the music would have some similar elements to OutKast's stuff. Not in a "biting" way but in a "respectful emulation" way; something we see all the time in hip-hop when someone's music heavily influences another artist's. (i.e. Eminem's early flow so closely resembling Masta Ace's)

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"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

>Yep. Totally agreed.
>
>I guess my main disconnect with your theory is your belief
>that OutKast had *that* much of a direct influence on The
>Roots/The Soulquarians/Okayplayer. Your larger point about
>OutKast being a step ahead of everyone in hip-hop as far as
>pushing hip-hop's boundaries I agree with and have always
>agreed with/thought independently myself forever, so we're on
>the same page there. I just don't know that I buy the "?uest
>had OutKast in mind specifically while making
>Illadelph/TFA/etc" theory. Especially since, like you
>originally said, none of the Souquarian-era records sound at
>all like OutKast records (besides Electric Circus, but Common
>has admitted to being influenced by Dre3k at that time so
>that's been covered). If there was really that kind of direct
>influence, I would think that a lot of the music would have
>some similar elements to OutKast's stuff. Not in a "biting"
>way but in a "respectful emulation" way; something we see all
>the time in hip-hop when someone's music heavily influences
>another artist's. (i.e. Eminem's early flow so closely
>resembling Masta Ace's)

Obviously this is all speculation. Like I said, Kast and The Roots were always my two favorite so I was always seeing how their albums compared to each other based on that. It just seemed to me that The Roots were always one step behind. And that could simply be to how their record deals panned out and how they grew.

And I know that they were working on albums at the same time so it's not like The Roots heard ATLiens in August and rushed Illadelph to be out in October...just isn't possible.

But ?uest has made comments about how Kast always had that one song that got him and I believe he named Mainstream, Liberation, and Toilet Tisha if I remember correctly.

So I don't think The Roots were attempting to do anything Kast was but I do believe they were pushed artistically out of the respect. You could definitely say Phrenology and Electric Circus were influenced by Stankonia.

>So I don't think The Roots were attempting to do anything Kast
>was but I do believe they were pushed artistically out of the
>respect. You could definitely say Phrenology and Electric
>Circus were influenced by Stankonia.

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"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

Truly sorry. I'm so used to the typical 100% male presence in here I didn't even give it a second thought.

Hope it's not too late to edit haha. Meant no offense.

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"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

Give that Vol. 2 a spin sis. It's a good album

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just fucking with you...

I have to go with TFA.

It's the most consistent. Thought and Malik killing shit. Straight ahead hip-hop. Great guest spots from Mos, Common, and Beans. The only thing that I can fault this album for is lack of content. And I would be cool with that if that's how it was sold to me. Kind of like Artifacts' "That's Them"...I know it's a straight up hip-hop record with 2 MCs just ripping shit about how nice they are. But TFA had the 5 different covers all with a political theme. Then you tack on the AWFUL spoken word bullshit (I can't express how much I hate those additions to the early albums) at the end in an attempt to bring in a deeper aspect and it does result in a flaw to me. Keep that spoken word shit and give me the I'm Out There bonus cut and I'm good. And while I like the covers and get the connection to "things fall apart" in a hip-hop context and having all track be straight up hip-hop shit with no concepts, I just don't feel the dark images with overly political themes fit the actual sound of the music. The album is much brighter which was a good change from Illadelph to me.

BOBS and LWFC are both classics but both have flaws in my opinion.

BOBS is a bit disjointed to me and as much as I want to give Mos the credit for touching so many bases, it just isn't a smooth listen to me every time. Cut Rock N Roll and Climb and it becomes much more cohesive instantly and creates a tighter product. And I actually like both of those songs but the flow of the album at that point just doesn't work for me when I play it through.

LWFC suffers from a few songs that could've been cut. The Questions, A Film Called Pimp, Payback's A Grandmother...3 songs which I do play and don't hate, but they are definitely flaws to an otherwise amazing album. And honestly Com, is it too much to ask for Thought to get a verse on Cold Blooded? This album does have some of my favorite Common moments ever and really does bring me back to that time and I think is the best representation of that Soulaquarians sound even more so than Voodoo. Time Travelin', Heat, Dooinit, The Light, the end of Funky For You, The 6th Sense, Nag Champa, Thelonius, Ghetto Heaven...man, great, great album.

TOT...this may sound harsh but I think is the best album per artist out of these. I think this is the best possible album Kweli could've made. And it's a favorite of mine. Only issue is, Kweli's ceiling isn't as high as the other artists and even with a few flaws, I like the other albums above better.

Vol 2...great album. Production is amazing. Fun album. Songs are all cool. Great listen. But for me...I will always favor production + lyrics and as good as the production is on Vol 2, the production is also great on the other albums.

So over all...

TFA
LWFC
BOB
TOT
VOL2

>just fucking with you...
>
>I have to go with TFA.
>
>It's the most consistent. Thought and Malik killing shit.
>Straight ahead hip-hop. Great guest spots from Mos, Common,
>and Beans. The only thing that I can fault this album for is
>lack of content. And I would be cool with that if that's how
>it was sold to me. Kind of like Artifacts' "That's Them"...I
>know it's a straight up hip-hop record with 2 MCs just ripping
>shit about how nice they are. But TFA had the 5 different
>covers all with a political theme. Then you tack on the AWFUL
>spoken word bullshit (I can't express how much I hate those
>additions to the early albums) at the end in an attempt to
>bring in a deeper aspect and it does result in a flaw to me.
>Keep that spoken word shit and give me the I'm Out There bonus
>cut and I'm good. And while I like the covers and get the
>connection to "things fall apart" in a hip-hop context and
>having all track be straight up hip-hop shit with no concepts,
>I just don't feel the dark images with overly political themes
>fit the actual sound of the music. The album is much brighter
>which was a good change from Illadelph to me.
>

Dude, The Roots were at their best when Malik and Thought were sharing mic duties. I loved that duo. I agree on the content. Their albums seemed to lack content until later. Mainly on the Def Jam albums. lmao no love for Ursula huh?

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Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

Geto Boys, Poison Clan, UGK, Eightball & MJG, OutKast, Goodie Mob

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