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Subject: "Chill with the #BronCurve, if he's good enough he'll get 6, #RingsMatter..." This topic is locked.
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ThaTruth
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91248 posts
Wed May-27-15 03:14 PM

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"Chill with the #BronCurve, if he's good enough he'll get 6, #RingsMatter..."
Wed May-27-15 03:19 PM by ThaTruth

          

Ok I see I need to have a little come to Jesus talk with some folks around here.

Let's start off with a little history lesson...

Let's go for a ride OKS. Come with good ol' Uncle Truth as we take a trip down to West Monroe, Louisiana. There in 1934 Charles and Katie Russell had a son and named him William Felton Russell. The younger Russell, who would later be known as Bill, grew up to become a great basketball player winning 11 NBA championships and a was awarded a Presidential Medal of Freedom, the only NBA player to ever receive that award.

A couple of years later in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, William Chamberlain and Olivia Ruth Johnson had a son and named him Wilton Norman Chamberlain. "Wilt", as he was called, grew up to become an outstanding basketball player as well and set statistical records that had never been achieved before and haven't been matched since.

However, as great as Chamberlain was individually, he only won 2 NBA titles in 5 trips to the Finals and Russell was considered to be the better winner and better player by most accounts. #RingsMatter

Then there would be another great player to come along by the name of Julius Winfield Erving II from Long Island, New York. His high-flying, slam-dunking style would take the game to a new level. Additionally Erving was also an oustanding defender, rebounder, passer and ballhandler at the forward position.

Erving went to the NBA Finals 4 times in 7 years but only won title. In 4 of those seasons in the Eastern Conference Finals Erving faced the Boston Celtics led by Larry Joe Bird from French Lick, Indiana and they split those series 2-2. During that same time-frame Bird went on to win 3 championships and is almost universally considered to be the superior player even though for anyone that actually watched them play it was nowhere near that clear cut. #RingsMatter

Once Bird got past Erving in the Eastern conference he had another nemesis usually waiting for him, a fella named Ervin Johnson Jr. from Lansing, Michigan. They called him Magic. Bird and Magic played each other in the Finals 3 times in 4 years and Magic's Lakers won 2 of the 3. Overall Magic won 5 titles in 9 trips to the Finals and despite Larry Bird's greatness winning league MVP for 3 consecutive seasons(the last player to do so) Larry only won 3 titles in 5 Finals appearances so in the NBA hierarchy most people have Magic ranked higher. #RingsMatter
(sidenote: I've never heard anyone discount Magic or Larry's titles when they didn't win Finals MVP)

And then He came. To James Jordan Sr. and his wife Deloris and child was born in Brroklyn, New York. They named him Michael Jeffrey Jordan and wrapped him in swaddling clothes and laid him in a manger. Michael would grow up to be a great basketball player as well. Michael's dominance in the NBA was evident from day one but some said while he was a great individual player he would never win a title. Jordan would eventually silence those critics and win 6 titles in six trips to the Finals and be considered as the Greatest of All-Time. #RingsMatter

And I could go on...

Why is Olajuwon considered head and shoulders over contemporaries like Robinson and Ewing? #RingsMatter

Why is Duncan universally considered the greatest power forward of all time over people like 2nd all-time leading scorer Karl Malone and Charles Barkley? #RingsMatter

Why is Isiah Thomas considered better than all-time assists and steals leader John Stockton? #RingsMatter

Why is 2-time league MVP Steve Nash considered inferior to those two who never won MVP? #RingsMatter

Now we have our current hero. On December 30, 1984 in Akron, Ohio a 16-year-old Gloria Marie James gave birth to a bouncing baby boy and named him Lebron Raymone James.

"King James" as he is know IS the greatest basketball player in the world RIGHT TODAY(c)wc.

But that's not good enough for some people. They want to push him higher. They want to elevate him and push him past certain folks. Some event want to put him on the same level as the GOAT himself, Michael Jeffery Jordan.

They want to totally dismiss that other guy. You know who. Joe and Pam's son Kobe Bean Bryant.

He came in and snatched 3 rings almost right out the gate. But that didn't count. He was a "sidekick". He just rode Shaq's coattails. It's not like he wasn't out there at 21 years-old averaging 21ppg and leading the team in assists and steals en route to the Lakers first title in over a decade. It wasn't like they didn't run it back the next year with Kobe scoring the same about of points as Shaq and still leading the team in assists sweeping the first 3 rounds of the playoffs with Kobe dropping ALL of his nuts in the Spurs mouths culminating with them dominated the Sixers who had the league's best record. I mean that was Shaq chasing MVP Allen Iverson around on the perimeter and forcing him to shoot only 40%. Its not like they didn't 3-peat, the only team to do so since Jordan's Bulls. Something no other "great teams" have been able to accomplish in recent times like San Antonio or Miami.

But then Shaq left, folks said Kobe would never win another title. But he sneaked back in and snatched two more rings out of the cookie jar and all of a sudden motherfuckers got scared. They wanted to change the rules. All of sudden #Rings don't matter as much.

Now they wanna hype "finals appearances", it doesn't matter if you won or not as long as you participated, lol.

Is that where we really are now?

The reality is Lebron SHOULD BE going for at least his sixth title now.

He should have won at least one in Cleveland before. That 08-09 team good enough to win 66 regular season games, sweep the Pistons and the Hawks in the first 2 rounds, but couldn't get past an Orlando team lead by Dwight Howard and Hedo Turkoglu? How silly does that even sound? lol. Was that Cleveland team THAT much worse than the guys Lebron is playing with now?

And then he took his talents to South Beach. What did he say? "Not 2, not 3, not 4, not 5, not 6, not 7". That first year after and few early struggles but then they got on a roll. They finished the season strong and rolled through the first 3 rounds of the playoffs dropping only one game in each series.

Then it happened. I know Lebron fans like to Cuban B(c) the shit but the 2011 NBA Finals actually happened. Yes, it did. Your boy nutted up in a major and almost inexplicable way. I don't know if he was really that intimidated by Shawn Marion and DeShawn Stevenson or if Gloria was in big to the mob for gambling debts and he was forced to throw the series to save her life but he had probably one of the worst and most bizarre performances by a star player in NBA Finals history that no one can really explain to this day.

The next year he finally got over the hump. It took Wade breaking Rondo's arm in the conference finals and they were able to dominate a super young OKC team but Lebron FINALLY got that first ring.

He got another the next year. The Pacers stretched Miami to the max and they were basically a lucky bounce from losing to the Spurs in the finals but in the end it doesn't matter and Lebron is a two-time champion.

The next season they rolled through the first 3 rounds but the Spurs had their number and wiped the floor with them pretty easily.

Then all of a sudden Lebron didn't have enough "help" again and ran back to Cleveland.

Now he's back in the Finals again for the 5th straight year and people are trumpeting that like its a significant accomplishment even though he only has 2 titles to show for including his 2007 finals appearance giving him 6 overall.

But if he can manage to beat Steph and the Warriors in the finals he'll be halfway to basketball immortality. Jordan won 3 of his titles after age 30.

Lebron can do it too but lets not anoint him just yet, let him EARN his place in history like everybody else did. Don't discount it, don't grade him on a curve. He can still do this. The NBA is wide open right now. Durant and OKC was supposed to be "next" team but its not looking like that now. The Warriors are looking strong but its going to take a salary cap genius to keep that team together. Lebron and the Cavs look like they could easily run off a few titles the way they are playing right now.

But for now let's officially dead the #BronCurve and cease the blaspheming of the one true GOAT MJ and let the "King" EARN his crown.

THE DOORS OF THE CHURCH ARE OPEN!!

________________________________________
Watch For The Hook
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy9Fun9CuZ4

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
You could have just wrote "I'm mad" and saved yourself 1500 words
May 27th 2015
1
RE: You could have just wrote "I'm mad" and saved yourself 1500 words
May 27th 2015
Rings and Finals MVPs is all that matters
May 27th 2015
2
write as much as you want - the inevitable truth is smacking you in the ...
May 27th 2015
3
#RingsMatter
May 27th 2015
5
I always wonder what if Lebron played with an all time great center
May 27th 2015
4
If your aunt had a dick she'd be your uncle.
May 27th 2015
7
CLOSE: Bron played with prime Bosh and Wade
May 27th 2015
10
      RE: CLOSE: Bron carried injured Bosh and Wade to 4 straight finals
May 27th 2015
13
TLDR, he's 30 Y.O. and MFers already plea coppin' against GOAT status
May 27th 2015
6
I'm just saying let him EARN his place in NBA history like everybody...
May 27th 2015
8
He's not GOAT to me. Just better than Kobe and top 7 at the moment
May 27th 2015
9
who's in your "top 7"?
May 27th 2015
15
RE: who's in your "top 7"?
May 27th 2015
19
      lol your Celtic fanaticism is showing
May 27th 2015
20
           #3 all-time scorer with 5 rings is at 15? You really think its 15 people...
May 27th 2015
26
           Yes I do
May 27th 2015
33
                "Based on sheer talent & upside alone"? Where's T-Mac? Where's Penny?
May 27th 2015
36
                     You still didnt answer my question
May 27th 2015
39
                          which era? because a lot of those all-time greats wouldn't be so great.....
May 27th 2015
42
                               yeah, Larry played against some terrible wing players in the 80s lol
May 27th 2015
46
                                    the league and defensive rules are a lot different today that's why...
May 27th 2015
50
           lol I'd give him #13 ahead of Doc and Baylor
May 27th 2015
41
^^^^^
May 27th 2015
16
I'm pretty sure you watch basketball
May 27th 2015
11
      #RingsMatter...they HAVE TO, because if you tell me rings don't matter.....
May 27th 2015
24
           RE: #RingsMatter...he has 2 and a chance for 3 at 30 Y.O.
May 27th 2015
29
           for one, no one's ever said rings DON'T matter
May 27th 2015
32
^^^^ The first Cuban B from LeBrony Nation
May 28th 2015
143
Agree on letting things play out but agenda land doesn't work like that
May 27th 2015
12
RE: agenda land
May 27th 2015
14
Fair enough, and it's quite pervasive here obviously
May 27th 2015
18
This post is a Kobe agenda post.
May 27th 2015
30
      RE: This post is a Kobe agenda post.
May 27th 2015
34
I agree with every single thing you said except your use of 'nut up'
May 27th 2015
17
COTDAMN we gotta a non-Bro fan who is so flummoxed that he wrote
May 27th 2015
21
Not flummoxed enough to flee the country and Internet
May 27th 2015
27
      Lol
May 27th 2015
31
      lol at fleeing country? That was almost funny, Ernest
May 27th 2015
57
      lol
May 29th 2015
161
Very entertaining storyline LOL. I will say: Goalposts will ALWAYS move
May 27th 2015
22
you're right, that's why sports are great.
May 27th 2015
28
      or horrible, depending on how you look at it
May 27th 2015
35
           Sports debates are as old as sports.
May 27th 2015
37
           RE: or horrible, depending on how you look at it
May 27th 2015
38
                Russell won ELEVEN times. Admit he is the GOAT and this can end
May 27th 2015
59
                     Do you think he is?
May 27th 2015
105
                          No, but I am not the guy positing this ridiculous argument
May 27th 2015
130
Tha_Truth kinda spit Tha_Truth y'all, and I got no horse in this
May 27th 2015
23
This definitely needed its own post.
May 27th 2015
25
lol
May 29th 2015
162
Thank you for writing all of that!
May 27th 2015
40
I don't think anyone read it all
May 27th 2015
45
      Nope. I'm going through our IT demand log. Aint got the energy lol
May 27th 2015
48
      RE: I swear to you I didn't lmao
May 27th 2015
60
Ring counting is for....
May 27th 2015
43
RE: Ring counting is for....
May 27th 2015
44
      RE: Ring counting is for....
May 27th 2015
49
           RE: Ring counting is for....
May 27th 2015
51
                RE: Ring counting is for....
May 27th 2015
54
                     Magic averaged double figures in assists 9 years straight, how many year...
May 27th 2015
83
Unless you think Russell is GOAT, you automatically use a curve
May 27th 2015
47
RE: Unless you think Russell is GOAT, you automatically use a curve
May 27th 2015
52
So where do you have Russell? top 5? top 10?
May 27th 2015
53
      Top 10, cemented, I could hear a top 5 argument
May 27th 2015
61
      "cemented"? I need to know who else is in your top 10
May 27th 2015
62
           Russelll should be *cemented* in everyone's top 10 - really top 5
May 27th 2015
70
           RE: Russelll should be *cemented* in everyone's top 10 - really top 5
May 27th 2015
79
                Ok now I know you just foolin' - the only players who measure up
May 27th 2015
92
           RE: "cemented"? I need to know who else is in your top 10
May 27th 2015
87
                RE: "cemented"? I need to know who else is in your top 10
May 27th 2015
89
                     Not Russell, and not for LeBron either.
May 27th 2015
90
                     Close to my list but I gotta put Duncan in over DR.J who was my *1st*
May 27th 2015
96
                          I admit Doc's place is increasingly fragile
May 29th 2015
158
      top 10, but you're missing the point
May 27th 2015
71
           RE: I'mma need you to stop being reasonable in this post
May 27th 2015
73
http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/533/710/7ac.jpg
May 27th 2015
55
Only Kobe fans make this argument
May 27th 2015
56
and Russell fans. and Bird fans. I'm trying to figure out who's on which...
May 27th 2015
58
      I don't hear those fans making that argument
May 27th 2015
63
      well then you have to drop Bird below Doc and drop Russell below Moses
May 27th 2015
64
      For what reason? There thing wasn't just rings
May 27th 2015
66
      Oh old school Celtics fans ALLLLLWAYS bring this up for Russ
May 28th 2015
140
      lol - his whole post was funny because all of this trying to downplay
May 27th 2015
65
      #TalkAboutIt
May 27th 2015
68
      It started with Kobe fans
May 28th 2015
141
           idc about agendas, but that didn't start with kobe fans
May 28th 2015
142
                literally the 1st time I ever heard all that side kick shit
May 28th 2015
150
      When was the last time you heard a person in recent years make the
May 27th 2015
67
           Russell won all those rings in an 8 team league...
May 28th 2015
155
a lot of this is on point.
May 27th 2015
69
*daps*
May 27th 2015
72
Ya'll act like this is an individual sport vs a team sport
May 27th 2015
74
RE: Ya'll act like this is an individual sport vs a team sport
May 27th 2015
76
      Obviously it is seeing how everyone is showing you how you've
May 27th 2015
77
But who argued otherwise?
May 27th 2015
75
But there ARE people making that argument not just here, in the media...
May 27th 2015
80
Who are these media types?
May 27th 2015
119
on here, Kira and bentagain
May 30th 2015
174
      ^^^ You a LIE! see reply 78
May 31st 2015
185
           You said he will have the numbers to be GOAT regardless of rings
Jun 01st 2015
196
                No, I never said that. DAYUM, I can't be away from the boards for a
Jun 02nd 2015
198
                     #RingsMatter
Jun 02nd 2015
203
                     He's got 2 and playing for a 3rd, how may do you need to STFU?
Jun 02nd 2015
209
                          4 to get in the room, 5 to sit at the table
Jun 02nd 2015
212
                               cool, so 10 years from now we can come back and have that discussion
Jun 02nd 2015
213
                                    Bron will be lucky to get 5 more years out of his body
Jun 02nd 2015
217
                     U said he WILL have the #s to make the case for GOAT regardless of rings
Jun 03rd 2015
218
it's just hilarisad to see posters claim CPPlea is...something...
May 27th 2015
78
exactly, people are very selective with the argument depending on who...
May 27th 2015
81
Who said CPPlea is equal to Magic and Zeke?
May 27th 2015
82
except no one here or the media ever said that
May 27th 2015
93
      here's your link
May 27th 2015
114
           Never said he was as good as Isiah, stinky liar
May 27th 2015
131
Hey look, a Jordan guy and a Kobe guy fetishizing rings together
May 27th 2015
84
i rate this reply a 2 out of 6.
May 27th 2015
86
daps
May 27th 2015
120
#RingsMatter
May 27th 2015
88
Both Kobe and Jorn played with a top 25 all time playwr
May 27th 2015
111
      Pippen is not a top 25 all time player & is not better than healthy Wade
May 30th 2015
175
says the Iverson guy fighting a proxy war
May 31st 2015
187
but did ONE person say he was the GOAT?
May 27th 2015
91
At least 15 people have him top 5, that's blasphemous IMO
May 27th 2015
94
That is too high right today. He could get there though, not hard to see
May 27th 2015
97
      i look at it in terms of tiers.
May 27th 2015
101
           so people like Oscar, Magic, and Bird ain't shit now huh? not to mention...
May 27th 2015
103
                you named all the guys in that 'tier of 5' that i mentioned.
May 27th 2015
107
                Lebron is already better than Shaq, Dream & Duncan?
May 27th 2015
109
                     that could be argued, sure.
May 27th 2015
118
                     yes
May 27th 2015
121
                     by a good margin even
May 27th 2015
122
                     you're gonna argue Dream over Bron?
May 27th 2015
124
                     2 = 2
May 27th 2015
125
                          ...and pretty much everything else is in Bron's favor.
May 27th 2015
126
                               c'mon, you really gonna make me stump for Dream? 2-time champion...
May 27th 2015
127
                               where do you rank lebron all time right today?
May 27th 2015
128
                               maybe 10th, its tough because his career is still being written
May 27th 2015
129
                                    word.
May 27th 2015
132
                               You list these two like Bron hasn't acheived them:
May 28th 2015
138
                               Except winning without another star player
May 30th 2015
178
                                    Who did in recent memory besides Dream?
May 30th 2015
179
                                    Duncan in '03 and Dirk
May 31st 2015
190
                                         I guess we can say Duncan but Parker & Manu were emerging
May 31st 2015
191
                                    Yeah, I'd say 6 finals eclipses that
May 30th 2015
180
                                         not if you only won 2 of them #RingsMatter
May 30th 2015
181
                                         Uhhhh, yeah... even then
May 31st 2015
183
                                         3 Finals, beasted in all 3, 2 rings including winning 1 w/no other stars
May 31st 2015
189
                                              okay, how about 4 MVPs to 1
May 31st 2015
192
                                                   Moses Malone has 3 MVPs to Shaq's 1
Jun 01st 2015
193
                                                        no.
Jun 01st 2015
194
                                                             oh.
Jun 01st 2015
195
                     Cry.
May 31st 2015
186
                Oscar never even made it to the Finals without Kareem carrying him there
May 30th 2015
176
not at all, i've got him even higher than that.
May 27th 2015
95
      right but so i dont get who your response is aimed at
May 27th 2015
98
+1
May 27th 2015
116
*thunderous ovation* nm
May 27th 2015
85
#FieldGoalsMatter
May 27th 2015
99
RE: #FieldGoalPercentagesMatter
May 27th 2015
100
6-for-24
May 27th 2015
106
      2 for 5, potentially 2 for 6, how many all-time greats have a losing...
May 27th 2015
108
      #FieldGoalPercentagesMatter #KobestansJustGrowMadder
May 27th 2015
110
      The 2011 NBA Finals. It happened...
May 27th 2015
113
           Kobe blowing a 2-0 lead vs Phoenix also happened
May 27th 2015
115
                5 #RingsMatter
May 27th 2015
123
                Bron just went 14-37 & you mofos didn't say one word..
May 27th 2015
135
                     dogg, several times I've hit the 'If That Was Kobe' button
May 28th 2015
146
                          Bron is not 25 any more.. I keep telling people that..
May 30th 2015
173
      how many all time greats have even gotten that far?
May 27th 2015
112
      LeBron went 10/30 in Bulls Game 4, and has had other poo-poo performance...
May 28th 2015
145
           tell it to the guy above me who wrote FG%Matters, I simply said 6-for-24
May 28th 2015
147
^^^^^sees it
May 27th 2015
102
http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2818239/bronduncan.gif
May 27th 2015
104
I read all of that and enjoyed it
May 27th 2015
117
see!
May 27th 2015
133
So what does this thread prove?....
May 27th 2015
134
http://i.imgur.com/7Ukb8kq.gif
May 27th 2015
136
Wilt pretty much deads this whole dissertation
May 27th 2015
137
I don't think he wins this year
May 28th 2015
139
I agree with this entire post. Don't crown their asses, let them earn it...
May 28th 2015
144
#BronCurve
May 28th 2015
148
lol JORDAN FACED WEAKER COMP THAN MAGIC AND BIRD DID lol
May 28th 2015
149
lolz
Jun 01st 2015
197
Won't change the fact that at 30 yrs of age w/still time to accomplish
May 28th 2015
151
FOH, Kobe was trashing the Spurs when Timmy, Tony & Manu...
May 29th 2015
157
This is a bit of a stat juke
May 28th 2015
152
RE: the age-30-season thing
May 28th 2015
153
It's the same data, filtered a different way
May 28th 2015
156
^^^PLEAS COPPED
May 29th 2015
159
^^^^^nah he shat on your agenda
May 29th 2015
160
      nah, he tried to juke the stats, part of the greatness of Kobe(and Tim)....
May 29th 2015
165
           whereas Bron IS the Eastern Conference
May 29th 2015
168
Not even saying it means much, BUT...still, Kobe is #1 on there
Jun 02nd 2015
200
      right, lol
Jun 02nd 2015
202
goddamn, you're pressed
May 29th 2015
163
ok if you say so. n/m
May 29th 2015
166
yeah, this is actually an interesting stat to me
May 29th 2015
164
Really this is a knock on the East more than anything.
May 30th 2015
177
      When people are hyping "5 straight finals" as if its the equvalent...
May 30th 2015
182
           who did that exactly?
May 31st 2015
184
Teams matter
May 28th 2015
154
Lebron is the GOAT
May 29th 2015
167
yep, lol...
May 29th 2015
169
The only all-time great wing to shoot less than 20% from 3 in playoffs?
May 29th 2015
170
If the East is so weak, why don't more players come play in it?
May 29th 2015
171
what "stars" have changed teams and went west?
May 29th 2015
172
LOL! Maybe because the teams are weak, so it's no point?
Jun 02nd 2015
204
you'd have to be either joining a strong team or bringing some friends.
Jun 02nd 2015
206
this post just reinforces that Dula D is the best hoops poster here
May 31st 2015
188
Its always funny to me that he's supposed to be the best but there are
Jun 02nd 2015
199
RE: post MJ perspective
Jun 02nd 2015
201
      is it as silly to claim a 30 year old is the GOAT?
Jun 02nd 2015
205
      lol, you keep acting like 30 is young for an NBA player, Jordan and Kobe...
Jun 02nd 2015
207
           SAY SOMETHING...you and Cen
Jun 02nd 2015
208
                #RingsMatter
Jun 02nd 2015
210
                see reply 209
Jun 02nd 2015
211
                i really don't do those arguments fam.
Jun 02nd 2015
214
                     stans are irrational (c) Cen
Jun 02nd 2015
215
                          nope that about it.
Jun 02nd 2015
216
Lebron is a great player and what he's doing is awesome right now but...
Jun 08th 2015
219
^said he couldn't see the Cavs as contenders w/ a *healthy* lineup
Jun 08th 2015
220
      did I say something in post #219 that was untrue?
Jun 08th 2015
221
           Yes, numerous things, actually
Jun 08th 2015
225
11>>>>>6 #NoRingsDontMatter...
Jun 08th 2015
222
6 rings as the leading scorer >>>> as the 5th or 6th best scorer on your...
Jun 08th 2015
223
      LOL, he was their best player so cut the bullshit
Jun 08th 2015
224
      He was their best defensive player but far from the best scorer and its....
Jun 08th 2015
226
           Lol, he didn't get 4 MVPs for no reason.
Jun 08th 2015
228
           Russell shot 43% in the playoffs in the post
Jun 08th 2015
229
                you can't peddle #RingsMatter as the be all end all
Jun 09th 2015
230
                     of course there's context involved or else Robert Horry would be in the....
Jun 09th 2015
231
                          so then, by extension
Jun 09th 2015
232
                               lol, let him get THREE first...
Jun 09th 2015
233
                                    YOU made the post saying he HAD to get to 6
Jun 09th 2015
234
           he was their best all-around player and their leader, period
Jun 10th 2015
238
      I can't hear you over all these rings...
Jun 08th 2015
227
Lebron is finally doing what he should have done in Cleveland the first....
Jun 10th 2015
235
So hurt. Everybody in the world now agrees. Consensus: Bron is top 5
Jun 10th 2015
236
so you're conceding after game 3? noted
Jun 10th 2015
237
he was younger and less of a leader back then. just stop.
Jun 10th 2015
239
Man if this is what he's SUPPOSED to do then he is already the damn GOAT
Jun 10th 2015
240
lol
Jun 10th 2015
241
Lock Post, Archive.
Jun 10th 2015
242
      ^^^only sensible person here and the only real Cleveland fan
Jun 10th 2015
243
^
Jun 16th 2015
244

Oak27
Member since Apr 17th 2005
12401 posts
Wed May-27-15 03:24 PM

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1. "You could have just wrote "I'm mad" and saved yourself 1500 words"
In response to Reply # 0
Wed May-27-15 03:31 PM by Oak27

          

I got two questions though. I was born in 1988, didn't become an avid basketball fan until 97ish, so maybe an older, wiser gentleman can answer them.

First... why has it taken all this time, up until LeBron James came into the league, for players to have 4 teammates on the court at the same time? I Keep hearing all about how LeBron needed Wade to win his first title, how he needed Ray to win the second, how he needed help to keep getting to Finals after Finals. I'm assuming he's the first person to play with teammates? Why did nobody ever think of this before? Perhaps Jordan could have won 10+ if he had help, perhaps a guy who could shoot the three or someone who could rebound.

And second... why is 2nd place considered worse than 3rd-30th for LeBron but not for anybody else? Perhaps LeBron would be better off if he only went to the Finals the two years he won and then failed to reach them all the other years? Perhaps he'd be better off not making the playoffs at all. Like lets say the best player on his team, lets say a guy who helped him win consecutive titles and won the Finals MVP all those years, lets say he leaves. It must be better for his legacy to miss the playoffs the following year and not make it out of the first round the next two, right? Again, that's a completely hypothetical situation, because that would never happen to someone who is in consideration for Top 5 all time, we know that for sure.

  

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bshelly
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"RE: You could have just wrote "I'm mad" and saved yourself 1500 words"


  

          

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand SCENE

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

  

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imo
Member since Aug 09th 2007
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2. "Rings and Finals MVPs is all that matters"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

The Bron fanboys have surpassed the Kobe fanboys.

Jordan fanboys pissed me off but 6 rings have to be respected. Only 7 rings in the modern era will make Jordan take a back seat(w/ Finals MVPs to match).

"hey, make this right mayne
stop at the light mayne,
my yester night thang got me hung off the night train "

  

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Vex_id
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3. "write as much as you want - the inevitable truth is smacking you in the ..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

Bron already easily top 5 and when it's all said & done - he'll be top 2, period.

Don't matter if he has 3 rings or 5 - it's inevitable.

Be upset.

-->

  

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ThaTruth
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5. "#RingsMatter"
In response to Reply # 3


          

________________________________________
Watch For The Hook
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy9Fun9CuZ4

  

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Lach
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4. "I always wonder what if Lebron played with an all time great center"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

and genuinely fed him the ball to his desire.

  

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ThaTruth
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7. "If your aunt had a dick she'd be your uncle."
In response to Reply # 4


          

________________________________________
Watch For The Hook
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy9Fun9CuZ4

  

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Kira
Member since Nov 14th 2004
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10. "CLOSE: Bron played with prime Bosh and Wade"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

There's not a superstar in NBA history that wouldn't win at least two titles playing with the best players from their draft class. Jordan would have 12 rings playing with the best players from his draft class plus Pippen.

  

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bentagain
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Wed May-27-15 03:39 PM

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13. "RE: CLOSE: Bron carried injured Bosh and Wade to 4 straight finals"
In response to Reply # 10
Wed May-27-15 03:41 PM by bentagain

  

          

and 2 rings.

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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bentagain
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6. "TLDR, he's 30 Y.O. and MFers already plea coppin' against GOAT status"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

why?

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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ThaTruth
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8. "I'm just saying let him EARN his place in NBA history like everybody..."
In response to Reply # 6


          

else did.

In this microwave, internet society nobody wants to wait for shit.

________________________________________
Watch For The Hook
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy9Fun9CuZ4

  

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Lach
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9. "He's not GOAT to me. Just better than Kobe and top 7 at the moment"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

with an inside track on top 5 or 3 if he wins more rings.

  

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ThaTruth
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15. "who's in your "top 7"?"
In response to Reply # 9


          

________________________________________
Watch For The Hook
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy9Fun9CuZ4

  

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Lach
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19. "RE: who's in your "top 7"?"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Russell
4. Bird
5. Magic
6. Wilt
7. Lebron


8. Oscar
9. Duncan
10 Shaq


  

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melmag
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20. "lol your Celtic fanaticism is showing"
In response to Reply # 19
Wed May-27-15 03:52 PM by melmag

  

          

tho I have the same exact players in my top 10, just a different order: its MJ, Wilt, Cap, Russell, Magic, Bron, Bird, Oscar Ducan & Shaq for me.

Kobe is at #15 behind Dream, Moses, Baylor & Doc

>1. Jordan
>2. Kareem
>3. Russell
>4. Bird
>5. Magic
>6. Wilt
>7. Lebron
>
>
>8. Oscar
>9. Duncan
>10 Shaq
>
>
>

  

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ThaTruth
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26. "#3 all-time scorer with 5 rings is at 15? You really think its 15 people..."
In response to Reply # 20


          

better than him?

________________________________________
Watch For The Hook
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy9Fun9CuZ4

  

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melmag
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33. "Yes I do"
In response to Reply # 26


  

          


wipe everybody slate clean.

Based on sheer talent & upside alone, name one player on my list Kobe gets drafted over in an expansion draft. I'll wait

  

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ThaTruth
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36. ""Based on sheer talent & upside alone"? Where's T-Mac? Where's Penny?"
In response to Reply # 33


          

Bill Walton? Sam Bowie? Greg Oden? Ralph Sampson? Len Bias? Dajaun Wagner?

c'mon?!

________________________________________
Watch For The Hook
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy9Fun9CuZ4

  

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melmag
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39. "You still didnt answer my question"
In response to Reply # 36


  

          


nice diversion tho

  

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ThaTruth
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42. "which era? because a lot of those all-time greats wouldn't be so great....."
In response to Reply # 39


          

today?

Russell play center at 6-10, 215 and barely shoot 40% against 6'7" white dudes, lol

And can you imagine Larry Bird defending wing players today? I couldn't

________________________________________
Watch For The Hook
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy9Fun9CuZ4

  

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Lach
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46. "yeah, Larry played against some terrible wing players in the 80s lol"
In response to Reply # 42


  

          

  

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ThaTruth
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50. "the league and defensive rules are a lot different today that's why..."
In response to Reply # 46


          

I ask which era

________________________________________
Watch For The Hook
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy9Fun9CuZ4

  

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Lach
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41. "lol I'd give him #13 ahead of Doc and Baylor"
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

but yeah, same guys in that 11-15.

  

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melmag
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16. "^^^^^"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          


exactly where I'm at

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
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11. "I'm pretty sure you watch basketball"
In response to Reply # 8
Wed May-27-15 03:37 PM by bentagain

  

          

passed MJ for #1 all-time +30 +5 and +5 games in the offs

passed Karl Malone on all-time off scoring list (6th I think?)

first player EVER not on the 60s BOS teams to reach 5 straight finals

^^^ this year.

Bron doing historic things is the reason folks are trying to place him in a historical context

he's earned the comparison.

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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ThaTruth
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24. "#RingsMatter...they HAVE TO, because if you tell me rings don't matter....."
In response to Reply # 11


          

you're telling me the great Bill Russell was a fraud and a sidekick and an overhyped Ben Wallace that rode the coattails of his multiple HOF teammates as the to those 11 titles.

If you tell me rings don't matter you have to tell me how Wilt isn't the clear undisputed GOAT.

If you tell me rings don't matter you have to tell me why Oscar Robinson, the only dude to EVER average a triple double for a season doesn't get more love.

If you tell me rings don't matter then you're telling me the only reason people say Bird is better than Doc is because Bird was white.

If you tell me rings don't matter then you have to explain to me how the #2 scorer in NBA history isn't in anybody's top 10.

If you tell me rings don't matter you have to explain to me why Duncan is held in much higher regard than Garnett despite very similar stats and individual awards.

So what are you all telling me?

________________________________________
Watch For The Hook
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy9Fun9CuZ4

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
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29. "RE: #RingsMatter...he has 2 and a chance for 3 at 30 Y.O."
In response to Reply # 24
Wed May-27-15 04:11 PM by bentagain

  

          

of course rings matter

and Bron has rings

it's just NOT the end all be all.

this is all viewed through a post MJ perspective

nobody tried to plea cop Magic's greatness

because he lost in the finals

or Bird's

or Dr J's

etc...

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
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32. "for one, no one's ever said rings DON'T matter"
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

and i'm not arguing Bron's position here, just saying you always have to look at things in context. otherwise there's no reason to have anyone behind Russell.

  

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Dr Claw
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143. "^^^^ The first Cuban B from LeBrony Nation"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

  

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LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
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12. "Agree on letting things play out but agenda land doesn't work like that"
In response to Reply # 0
Wed May-27-15 03:41 PM by LA2Philly

  

          

Cats want to beat their chest over Internet W's and comparisons..it is what it is. There's so much selective attention and disingenuous banter on every side that it's all pretty much nonsense regardless.

That being said, it's pretty clear Lebron is approaching rarefied air. Along with TD, he's the best overall player and leader that I've seen in my adult years.

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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bentagain
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14. "RE: agenda land "
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

IDK fam

a whole lotta 'experts' were highly critical of this young man

outside of these boards

there's plenty of Ls to go around.

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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LA2Philly
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18. "Fair enough, and it's quite pervasive here obviously "
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

I find it all pretty nonsensical lol

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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30. "This post is a Kobe agenda post. "
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

He just disguised it with 9786208297496392 words.

He should've just said "rings matter" and more people would've agreed, myself included. Instead, he included foolishness like "Lebron SHOULD have six rings by now!", a surefire signifier that it's one of those classic posts that decries the insanity of agenda flag-planting while also hammering agenda flags endlessly into the soil.

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

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ThaTruth
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34. "RE: This post is a Kobe agenda post. "
In response to Reply # 30
Wed May-27-15 04:14 PM by ThaTruth

          

>He just disguised it with 9786208297496392 words.
>
>He should've just said "rings matter" and more people would've
>agreed, myself included. Instead, he included foolishness like
>"Lebron SHOULD have six rings by now!", a surefire signifier
>that it's one of those classic posts that decries the insanity
>of agenda flag-planting while also hammering agenda flags
>endlessly into the soil.

He should have more than two if he's the new messiah that folks proclaim him to be.

________________________________________
Watch For The Hook
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy9Fun9CuZ4

  

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T Reynolds
Member since Apr 16th 2007
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17. "I agree with every single thing you said except your use of 'nut up'"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Cats on here say that shit in a totally different context than what I'm used to

if someone went crazy and put up 45 like Harden did and put the team on his back, then he nutted up

Horford nutted up on Didgeridoova for the dirty shit.

etc.

etc.

  

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vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
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21. "COTDAMN we gotta a non-Bro fan who is so flummoxed that he wrote "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

a dissertation in hopes of rallying the rest of the flummoxed contingent lol

Ya'll better hope he doesn't pull this off

grassrootsphilosopher

  

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LA2Philly
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27. "Not flummoxed enough to flee the country and Internet "
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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josephmurf2384
Member since Nov 21st 2005
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Wed May-27-15 04:10 PM

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31. "Lol"
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

  

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vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
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57. "lol at fleeing country? That was almost funny, Ernest"
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

>

grassrootsphilosopher

  

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Cenario
Member since Aug 24th 2005
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161. "lol"
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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-DJ R-Tistic-
Member since Nov 06th 2008
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22. "Very entertaining storyline LOL. I will say: Goalposts will ALWAYS move"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

If Lebron wins six, or even seven...."yeah, but it took him ten tries in the Finals."

Or, "he only won those last two because he was able to team up with Westbrook/Durant/John Wall" or whoever the next Superstar ends up being that he teams up with.

Hell, he can win 10-12, breaking Russell's record, and some folks will argue..."but he didn't face the same competition as Russell, the NBA is much softer now!" "He won them ALL on the East, so he had less competition, and the West teams were always tired by the time he got there!"

Basically, the great thing about Sports debates is that NOTHING can easily quantify who's the best. There's always someone ready to make an argument against whatever case you submit, regardless how stupid it sounds.

------------------------------

50+ FREE Mixes on www.DJR-Tistic.com!

Twitter and Instagram - @DJ_RTistic

  

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ThaTruth
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28. "you're right, that's why sports are great."
In response to Reply # 22


          

________________________________________
Watch For The Hook
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy9Fun9CuZ4

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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35. "or horrible, depending on how you look at it"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

i aint reading that dissertation but i did catch a sentence about most people thinking russell was better than wilt. seems like unsubstantiated conjecture regarding one of the most polarizing, heated and complex debates in sports history. i really don't care about the rest of this shit. your boy(s) lost. deal with it. bron better than kobe and he's coming for shaq in an instant.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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ThaTruth
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37. "Sports debates are as old as sports."
In response to Reply # 35


          

________________________________________
Watch For The Hook
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy9Fun9CuZ4

  

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ThaTruth
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38. "RE: or horrible, depending on how you look at it"
In response to Reply # 35
Wed May-27-15 04:21 PM by ThaTruth

          

>your boy(s)
>lost. deal with it.

And my boy WON. 5 times.

#RingsMatter

________________________________________
Watch For The Hook
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy9Fun9CuZ4

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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59. "Russell won ELEVEN times. Admit he is the GOAT and this can end"
In response to Reply # 38


  

          

If not then #RingsArentEverything

Let's also not ignore that LeBron is 30 and Kobe is dead.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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ThaTruth
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105. "Do you think he is?"
In response to Reply # 59


          

________________________________________
Watch For The Hook
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy9Fun9CuZ4

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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Wed May-27-15 10:00 PM

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130. "No, but I am not the guy positing this ridiculous argument"
In response to Reply # 105


  

          

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Wed May-27-15 03:58 PM

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23. "Tha_Truth kinda spit Tha_Truth y'all, and I got no horse in this"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


Niggas grading Lebron on that grade inflation

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Wed May-27-15 04:00 PM

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25. "This definitely needed its own post."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

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Cenario
Member since Aug 24th 2005
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162. "lol"
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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Rjcc
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40. "Thank you for writing all of that!"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I didn't read any of it, but I'm sure others did and gained valuable insight about your relationship with LeBron James from it.

Clearly these feelings are important to you, and I am thrilled that you expressed them.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
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Wed May-27-15 04:30 PM

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45. "I don't think anyone read it all"
In response to Reply # 40


  

          

>I didn't read any of it, but I'm sure others did and gained
>valuable insight about your relationship with LeBron James
>from it.


I mean really, credit to him for summing up his point in the subject line very well. He just didn't realize it.

  

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Lach
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48. "Nope. I'm going through our IT demand log. Aint got the energy lol"
In response to Reply # 45


  

          

  

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vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
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60. "RE: I swear to you I didn't lmao"
In response to Reply # 45


  

          

>>I didn't read any of it, but I'm sure others did and gained
>>valuable insight about your relationship with LeBron James
>>from it.
>
>
>I mean really, credit to him for summing up his point in the
>subject line very well. He just didn't realize it.

grassrootsphilosopher

  

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murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
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Wed May-27-15 04:27 PM

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43. "Ring counting is for...."
In response to Reply # 0
Wed May-27-15 04:30 PM by murph71

          


...folks who have no room for nuance and sports radio.....

It's one thing to say that player A) is not in the class of Magic, Bird, Russell, Cap and MJ because he never won a championship. I agree with that....

It's quite another to start a ring pissing contest.....

Jordan has less rings than Russell and yet people universally pick him over Mr. Bill....And that's because of context.....

It's all about context. Who were you playing with during your Chip run? What odds did you have to beat? Were you an important part of the team? Were u dominant during your Chip runs?

So even as a Bulls fan who has no use for the Cavs I begrudgingly can say that I view James better than Bird and Magic...

Context...Nuance....

Now as a crazy ass sports fan this back and forth is fun as shit...

But in the real world.....

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

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ThaTruth
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44. "RE: Ring counting is for...."
In response to Reply # 43


          


>So even as a Bulls fan who has no use for the Cavs I
>begrudgingly can say that I view James better than Bird and
>Magic...

Why?

________________________________________
Watch For The Hook
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy9Fun9CuZ4

  

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murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
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49. "RE: Ring counting is for...."
In response to Reply # 44


          

>
>>So even as a Bulls fan who has no use for the Cavs I
>>begrudgingly can say that I view James better than Bird and
>>Magic...
>
>Why?


Better all around game.....Immensely better on D and just a small level below Magic as a passer...

Remember when Magic took a team with Worthy hurt on the bench, Cap retired and Vlade in the middle to the Finals to meet the Bulls?

James did that 3 times in his career....

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

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ThaTruth
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51. "RE: Ring counting is for...."
In response to Reply # 49


          

>>
>>>So even as a Bulls fan who has no use for the Cavs I
>>>begrudgingly can say that I view James better than Bird and
>>>Magic...
>>
>>Why?
>
>
>Better all around game.....Immensely better on D and just a
>small level below Magic as a passer...

"small"? I guess he's also a "small" level below Bird as a shooter too, lol

>
>Remember when Magic took a team with Worthy hurt on the bench,
>Cap retired and Vlade in the middle to the Finals to meet the
>Bulls?
>
>James did that 3 times in his career....

________________________________________
Watch For The Hook
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy9Fun9CuZ4

  

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murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
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Wed May-27-15 04:43 PM

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54. "RE: Ring counting is for...."
In response to Reply # 51


          

>>>
>>>>So even as a Bulls fan who has no use for the Cavs I
>>>>begrudgingly can say that I view James better than Bird
>and
>>>>Magic...
>>>
>>>Why?
>>
>>
>>Better all around game.....Immensely better on D and just a
>>small level below Magic as a passer...
>
>"small"? I guess he's also a "small" level below Bird as a
>shooter too, lol

Magic is the better passer....But not by as much as u think....I've seen about enough of Mr. Jughead's passing skills against my Bulls alone to come to the realization that dude is a passing savant....

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

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ThaTruth
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83. "Magic averaged double figures in assists 9 years straight, how many year..."
In response to Reply # 54


          

did Lebron average double figures in assists?

________________________________________
Watch For The Hook
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy9Fun9CuZ4

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
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Wed May-27-15 04:32 PM

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47. "Unless you think Russell is GOAT, you automatically use a curve"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

there's always a curve, that's not even debatable. what's debatable is how far the curve bends and for whom.

  

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murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
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52. "RE: Unless you think Russell is GOAT, you automatically use a curve"
In response to Reply # 47


          

>there's always a curve, that's not even debatable. what's
>debatable is how far the curve bends and for whom.



Basically......

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

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ThaTruth
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53. "So where do you have Russell? top 5? top 10?"
In response to Reply # 47


          

________________________________________
Watch For The Hook
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy9Fun9CuZ4

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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Wed May-27-15 04:53 PM

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61. "Top 10, cemented, I could hear a top 5 argument"
In response to Reply # 53


  

          

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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ThaTruth
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62. ""cemented"? I need to know who else is in your top 10"
In response to Reply # 61


          

________________________________________
Watch For The Hook
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy9Fun9CuZ4

  

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vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
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Wed May-27-15 05:16 PM

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70. "Russelll should be *cemented* in everyone's top 10 - really top 5 "
In response to Reply # 62


  

          

If there was a real Mt. Rushmore are you telling me there's someone other than Magic/Bird (because of what they did for the game in the modern era) who is more deserving to be on it than Mr. Russell?!?!?

grassrootsphilosopher

  

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ThaTruth
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79. "RE: Russelll should be *cemented* in everyone's top 10 - really top 5 "
In response to Reply # 70
Wed May-27-15 06:15 PM by ThaTruth

          

>If there was a real Mt. Rushmore are you telling me there's
>someone other than Magic/Bird (because of what they did for
>the game in the modern era) who is more deserving to be on it
>than Mr. Russell?!?!?

Jorn? Wilt? Oscar? West? Elgin?

________________________________________
Watch For The Hook
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy9Fun9CuZ4

  

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vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
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92. "Ok now I know you just foolin' - the only players who measure up"
In response to Reply # 79


  

          

to Russell when it comes to team accomplishments/individual accolades/overall importance to the history of the game is Magic/Bird only because of what they meant to the game besides what they did on the court...

Russell is the 1st and only coach/player to win a chip
In many ways he's almost (not quite tho) as important to the game as Jackie Robinson was to Baseball

And lastly, let me say it again: HE IS THE MOST ACCOMPLISHED ATHLETE IN TEAM SPORT HISTORY

West/Elgin/Oscar's legacies combined don't come close to Mr. Russell's legacy...

I could agree on Jordan but it's really abt a push


>>If there was a real Mt. Rushmore are you telling me there's
>>someone other than Magic/Bird (because of what they did for
>>the game in the modern era) who is more deserving to be on
>it
>>than Mr. Russell?!?!?
>
>Jorn? Wilt? Oscar? West? Elgin?

grassrootsphilosopher

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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Wed May-27-15 06:39 PM

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87. "RE: &quot;cemented&quot;? I need to know who else is in your top 10"
In response to Reply # 62
Wed May-27-15 06:42 PM by ConcreteCharlie

  

          

Top 10 not including active players:

Wilt
Russ
Cap
Jorn
Bird
Magic
Oscar
Doc
Dream
Shaq

Baylor, Moses and West seem very deserving of spots, I could see moving them in somewhere there.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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ThaTruth
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89. "RE: "cemented"? I need to know who else is in your top 10"
In response to Reply # 87


          

>Top 10 not including active players:
>
>Wilt
>Russ
>Cap
>Jorn
>Bird
>Magic
>Oscar
>Doc
>Dream
>Shaq

Nice cop out, if Timmy retires tomorrow who are you kicking out?

________________________________________
Watch For The Hook
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy9Fun9CuZ4

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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Wed May-27-15 06:44 PM

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90. "Not Russell, and not for LeBron either."
In response to Reply # 89


  

          

I would say Hakeem is my No. 10 right now. In terms of one season, he might be one of the five best to ever do it, but over the course of a career he's already borderline. Toss up between him and Moses Malone as it is.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
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96. "Close to my list but I gotta put Duncan in over DR.J who was my *1st*"
In response to Reply # 89
Wed May-27-15 06:55 PM by vee-lover

  

          

childhood idol...but I can't make a case for Doc being ahead of Timmay...

In NO particular order...

-Russell
-Wilt
-Oscar
-Kareem
-Magic
-Bird
-Jordan
-Duncan
-Bron
-Shaq (Tied w/Hakeem)


>>Top 10 not including active players:
>>
>>Wilt
>>Russ
>>Cap
>>Jorn
>>Bird
>>Magic
>>Oscar
>>Doc
>>Dream
>>Shaq
>
>Nice cop out, if Timmy retires tomorrow who are you kicking
>out?

grassrootsphilosopher

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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Fri May-29-15 02:07 AM

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158. "I admit Doc's place is increasingly fragile"
In response to Reply # 96


  

          

But I have to say that where I once championed the fuck out of Tim, I am starting to feel like I gotta go the other way and pump the brakes a little. And where before him, Shaq, LeBron and I guess Kobe if you're one of the people that had him the top 10 was easier to have. You had room for like Jerry West and Moses, both of whom I guess could be argued still. Moses did have a better career overall than Hakeem and I could hear an argument for him being better. Jerry West was hoops royalty. Elgin Baylor, too.

It makes me feel good in a way though because the game and its history have grown. I mean talking top ten baseball or football or hockey players has been more contentious for many years.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
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71. "top 10, but you're missing the point"
In response to Reply # 53


  

          

You can argue we have to wait for Bron to accomplish more before we put him in the top 5 or whatever, but you can't argue there's no curve. Otherwise why do the majority of us have Jordan (among others) above Russell? Oh, because there's more to the argument than just rings? Well that's the point people are making who put Bron in the top 5 already. I'm not there yet, but you can't just say "he's gotta get to 6" and not realize the irony in that.

  

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vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
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Wed May-27-15 05:22 PM

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73. "RE: I'mma need you to stop being reasonable in this post"
In response to Reply # 71


  

          

>You can argue we have to wait for Bron to accomplish more
>before we put him in the top 5 or whatever, but you can't
>argue there's no curve. Otherwise why do the majority of us
>have Jordan (among others) above Russell? Oh, because there's
>more to the argument than just rings? Well that's the point
>people are making who put Bron in the top 5 already. I'm not
>there yet, but you can't just say "he's gotta get to 6" and
>not realize the irony in that.
>

grassrootsphilosopher

  

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LegacyNS
Member since Jan 16th 2004
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55. "http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/533/710/7ac.jpg"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/533/710/7ac.jpg
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- 5....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlgiritpmfo

=======================================

  

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rzaroch36
Member since Jan 26th 2005
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Wed May-27-15 04:45 PM

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56. "Only Kobe fans make this argument"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Which also attracts attention away from the Tim>>>>Kobe argument

In a vacuum it's already Jordan/Bron best all time as far as basketball players go.


The last bastion of hope for Kobe fans as they cling to his nuthairs is that the number of rings are absolute. That they matter above all.

They don't. Context does.

Lebron was better coming out of high school, better in his prime, and will be better in his twilight years regardless of how many rings he has or doesn't have.

That's why Horry is not cracking anybody's top 50 even though he has 7 rings.


.
*****
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5P6zdlPJ34&feature=related
^^^ever walked the streets of...

  

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ThaTruth
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58. "and Russell fans. and Bird fans. I'm trying to figure out who's on which..."
In response to Reply # 56


          

side because people keep switching.

________________________________________
Watch For The Hook
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy9Fun9CuZ4

  

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Lach
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63. "I don't hear those fans making that argument"
In response to Reply # 58


  

          

  

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ThaTruth
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64. "well then you have to drop Bird below Doc and drop Russell below Moses"
In response to Reply # 63


          

________________________________________
Watch For The Hook
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy9Fun9CuZ4

  

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Lach
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Wed May-27-15 05:06 PM

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66. "For what reason? There thing wasn't just rings"
In response to Reply # 64


  

          

  

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-DJ R-Tistic-
Member since Nov 06th 2008
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Thu May-28-15 11:41 AM

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140. "Oh old school Celtics fans ALLLLLWAYS bring this up for Russ"
In response to Reply # 63


  

          

------------------------------

50+ FREE Mixes on www.DJR-Tistic.com!

Twitter and Instagram - @DJ_RTistic

  

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LegacyNS
Member since Jan 16th 2004
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Wed May-27-15 05:01 PM

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65. "lol - his whole post was funny because all of this trying to downplay"
In response to Reply # 58
Wed May-27-15 05:06 PM by LegacyNS

  

          

rings is because of Kobe. It's arguably the biggest L in sports history. Mafuckas were so certain he would never win without Shaq. 2009 was the biggest mad making year ever and cemented one of the biggest Ls in barbershops all over the nation. Then he had the nerve to comeback the next year and repeat. Ngaz ain't been the same sense. They been foaming at the mouf for the past 6 years.. lol. All logic flew out the window.. Now the same mafuckas saying Kobe won't win 6 are talking about Bron being the greatest eva with 2.. lol

I give up... lol... All I know is Kobe will retire with a hand full of sparklers and boy are they mad about it... lol

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- 5....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlgiritpmfo

=======================================

  

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ThaTruth
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68. "#TalkAboutIt"
In response to Reply # 65


          

________________________________________
Watch For The Hook
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy9Fun9CuZ4

  

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rzaroch36
Member since Jan 26th 2005
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Thu May-28-15 12:01 PM

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141. "It started with Kobe fans"
In response to Reply # 65


          

They want rings to count more because that would put him closer to #1 Jordan.

But it doesn't and it makes them so mad that LeBron is better than Kobe with fewer rings.

So thus, perpetuate the #ringsmattertome

It's a good argument though. Boils it all down to a simple number. That's easier for most of these knuckle dragging Kobe stans to comprehend.

.
*****
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5P6zdlPJ34&feature=related
^^^ever walked the streets of...

  

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LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
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Thu May-28-15 12:22 PM

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142. "idc about agendas, but that didn't start with kobe fans"
In response to Reply # 141


  

          

It was a response to a lot of angry people trying to qualify rings and down-play them after they had talked a whole lot of shit about Kobe never being able to win one on his own, let alone two.. Rather than just tip their cap, the bitter loser mentality came out and subsequent rationalization such as "sidekick rings" and "non finals MVP" rings. The natural response from the Kobe side was to focus on the rings.

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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LegacyNS
Member since Jan 16th 2004
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150. "literally the 1st time I ever heard all that side kick shit"
In response to Reply # 142


  

          

was Kobe haters.. 6 years of foaming at the mouf - lol
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- 5....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlgiritpmfo

=======================================

  

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vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
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Wed May-27-15 05:11 PM

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67. "When was the last time you heard a person in recent years make the"
In response to Reply # 58
Wed May-27-15 05:18 PM by vee-lover

  

          

case for Russell as the GOAT, ppl have made a special category for him and said he was the "greatest winner" in team sports because (I think) his dominance wasn't contingent upon his ability to score is which is why I feel like he doesn't get the proper credit he so deserves...he dominated in a very unsexy manner, by defending...and it was because of his ability think to control the game from a defensive standpoint is how he revolutionized the game...something that should also weigh in his favor if we're talking GOAT...

He's got the same amount of MVPs as Jordan and he almost doubles him in rings yet he ain't in some you alls top 5?!?!?!?!?!? And none of you mofos saw him play...at all

And how can anyone use the "ring argument" in regards to Bird when he only won 3 chips - plenty of (great) players got 3





>side because people keep switching.

grassrootsphilosopher

  

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ODotSoHot
Member since Apr 02nd 2013
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Thu May-28-15 10:32 PM

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155. "Russell won all those rings in an 8 team league..."
In response to Reply # 67


  

          

It ain't that much of a stretch for me to believe that 1 team could be dominant in an 8 team league for a decade.

Throw the 3-peat Lakers in an 8 team league for a decade, Shaq and Kob have 10 rings too.

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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Wed May-27-15 05:13 PM

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69. "a lot of this is on point."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

lebron is great -- top 5 ever -- but you have to earn GoAT.

lemme repeat that: YOU HAVE TO EARN GOAT

if he's as good as his biggest backers claim he is, he'll have
no problem eventually winning the chips to justify the status
that people are so pressed to preordain upon him.

are you that worried that he won't do it, that you feel the need
to set up all these failsafes and contingencies and even-ifs?

cats are already laying out "even if he loses to the warriors"
escape hatches. th'fuck part of the game is that?

i've never seen elgin baylor, jerry west, wilt, karl malone,
elway, peyton manning etc get 'credit' for finals losses, when
ppl discuss their legacies they generally list those in the minus column.

just have some balls and some confidence in your guy. and say
"yeah, he needs to get to 5 or 6 or whatever to be in the GoAT
convo, AND I'M SURE HE WILL"

because all this other shit is just scared pussy talk imo.

bottom line: if dude finishes his career 2-for-6 in the finals,
no one is going to consider him the consensus greatest basketball
player of all time, regardless of what else he accomplishes.

that's not how this works, never has. rings do matter.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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ThaTruth
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72. "*daps*"
In response to Reply # 69


          

________________________________________
Watch For The Hook
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy9Fun9CuZ4

  

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vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
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Wed May-27-15 05:30 PM

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74. "Ya'll act like this is an individual sport vs a team sport "
In response to Reply # 69
Wed May-27-15 05:32 PM by vee-lover

  

          

A lot of things have to break in Lebron's favor to win 6 (or more) titles...

Mainly like him and teammates staying healthy and quality of competition

Lebron could ball out in the postseason as we've seen him do during his first stint w/the Cavs and still not win the title...

This ring argument is fairly new because there was a time when ppl said that Oscar Robertson or Jerry West was the GOAT despite their lack of titles (Dr.J said he's got them both in his all-time backcourt "bar none")



>lebron is great -- top 5 ever -- but you have to earn GoAT.
>
>lemme repeat that: YOU HAVE TO EARN GOAT
>
>if he's as good as his biggest backers claim he is, he'll have
>
>no problem eventually winning the chips to justify the status
>
>that people are so pressed to preordain upon him.
>
>are you that worried that he won't do it, that you feel the
>need
>to set up all these failsafes and contingencies and even-ifs?
>
>cats are already laying out "even if he loses to the warriors"
>
>escape hatches. th'fuck part of the game is that?
>
>i've never seen elgin baylor, jerry west, wilt, karl malone,
>elway, peyton manning etc get 'credit' for finals losses, when
>
>ppl discuss their legacies they generally list those in the
>minus column.
>
>just have some balls and some confidence in your guy. and say
>
>"yeah, he needs to get to 5 or 6 or whatever to be in the GoAT
>
>convo, AND I'M SURE HE WILL"
>
>because all this other shit is just scared pussy talk imo.
>
>bottom line: if dude finishes his career 2-for-6 in the
>finals,
>no one is going to consider him the consensus greatest
>basketball
>player of all time, regardless of what else he accomplishes.
>
>that's not how this works, never has. rings do matter.

grassrootsphilosopher

  

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ThaTruth
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76. "RE: Ya'll act like this is an individual sport vs a team sport "
In response to Reply # 74


          

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/87/878d2a6c2441a7e6da37db1b5ad5eab27beac9579dd6867cb4fb2d2415ff98ce.jpg

________________________________________
Watch For The Hook
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy9Fun9CuZ4

  

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vee-lover
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77. "Obviously it is seeing how everyone is showing you how you've"
In response to Reply # 76


  

          

contradicted yourself on this topic at damn near every turn lol


>http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/87/878d2a6c2441a7e6da37db1b5ad5eab27beac9579dd6867cb4fb2d2415ff98ce.jpg

grassrootsphilosopher

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Wed May-27-15 05:37 PM

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75. "But who argued otherwise?"
In response to Reply # 69
Wed May-27-15 05:37 PM by Frank Longo

  

          

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=8&topic_id=2450011&mesg_id=2450011&page=

Literally NO ONE has him as the GOAT. Most people have him Top 5, which is a fairly consensus opinion... but plenty don't even have him there.

This is a post without a home. Or a post aimed exclusively at Vex or something. If someone can point me to someone sane saying that Bron is presently better than Jordan, cool. Because the only people who float the idea out there are saying he will be in the future and are staking the precise claims you mention in your reply.

Besides, Truth is full of shit here, because he thinks Bill Russell is overrated because of rings. So which POV does Truth actually hold? Whichever POV makes for the timeliest post, I suppose.

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

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ThaTruth
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80. "But there ARE people making that argument not just here, in the media..."
In response to Reply # 75
Wed May-27-15 06:17 PM by ThaTruth

          

too people are suggesting that he's already second to only Jordan, some are bold enough to suggest that he's somehow Jordan's equal or has surpassed because he's been to 5 straight Finals.

________________________________________
Watch For The Hook
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy9Fun9CuZ4

  

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bleekgilliam_420
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119. "Who are these media types?"
In response to Reply # 80


  

          

Please point them out so we can laugh at them. Doing a quick search all I saw was his teammates saying, which doesn't mean shit

  

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40thStreetBlack
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174. "on here, Kira and bentagain"
In response to Reply # 75


  

          

Also bomb says bron is better than Jordan was, and basa has concocted a formula by which if bron gets 3 more MVPs and 2 more rings he will surpass MJ as GOAT.


<----- Long Live The King

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
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185. "^^^ You a LIE! see reply 78"
In response to Reply # 174
Sun May-31-15 09:33 AM by bentagain

  

          

never said Bron IS the GOAT

we are playing a game of hypotheticals

projecting the rest of his career

based on what he's already accomplished at 30 Y.O.

YES, he has a chance* at GOAT

but needs to continue on an upward trajectory for at least a handful of years

AND add some hardware

you ain't gotta lie (c)

*I think you missed the point of my efficiency statement

weird, because you linked to it another post

maybe you should read it again.

---------------------------------------------------------------

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you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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40thStreetBlack
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196. "You said he will have the numbers to be GOAT regardless of rings"
In response to Reply # 185


  

          

>YES, he has a chance* at GOAT
>
>but needs to continue on an upward trajectory for at least a
>handful of years
>
>AND add some hardware

"Rings may not be his legacy"

Liar.


<----- Long Live The King

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
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Tue Jun-02-15 11:02 AM

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198. "No, I never said that. DAYUM, I can't be away from the boards for a "
In response to Reply # 196
Tue Jun-02-15 11:22 AM by bentagain

  

          

couple of days without you smearing my name

c'mon fam, you better than that (I hope)

what I said, and follow me here, I'm going to type it out

read slowly, I'm tired of re-explaining it

EFFICIENCY will be his legacy

if you PROJECT his career

he has A CHANCE at being

#1 in points, all-time
top 10 in assists, all-time
and top 20 in rebounds, all-time

add those up, and it equates to the most efficient player of all time.

in the era of analytics and stat geeks

that will be their case for Bron and GOAT (+ all the hardware, you are aware he's won about every award possible at this point in his career, including rings)

in case you aren't, here's what he's done at 30 Y.O.:

2× NBA Champion (2012–2013)
2× NBA Finals MVP (2012–2013)
4× NBA Most Valuable Player (2009–2010, 2012–2013)
11× NBA All-Star (2005–2015)
2× NBA All-Star Game MVP (2006, 2008)
9× All-NBA First Team (2006, 2008–2015)
2× All-NBA Second Team (2005, 2007)
5× NBA All-Defensive First Team (2009–2013)
NBA Rookie of the Year (2004)
NBA scoring champion (2008)

yes, rings may not be his legacy*

rings are Bill Russell's legacy, for NBA history

rings are MJ's legacy, in the modern era, based on his incredible runs

given that Bron will probably not execute 2 3-peats in his career

or win 11 chips

and I'll go out on a limb here and say NO ONE WILL

that will always give MJ the edge based on JUST rings <--- that's HIS legacy

now if we consider a player in his 11th season, playing in his 6th finals

I think it's safe to say he gets some more chips

how many...IDK

*but there is a possibility that he does end up with 6

an outside chance, but still a chance

so if he does retire ranked all-time in those stats I listed

the question is

not how many does he win

but how many does he need + the stats to be GOAT?

BYE!

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you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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ThaTruth
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203. "#RingsMatter "
In response to Reply # 198


          

________________________________________
Watch For The Hook
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy9Fun9CuZ4

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
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209. "He's got 2 and playing for a 3rd, how may do you need to STFU?"
In response to Reply # 203


  

          

---------------------------------------------------------------

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you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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ThaTruth
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212. "4 to get in the room, 5 to sit at the table"
In response to Reply # 209


          

________________________________________
Watch For The Hook
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy9Fun9CuZ4

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
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Tue Jun-02-15 03:23 PM

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213. "cool, so 10 years from now we can come back and have that discussion"
In response to Reply # 212


  

          

for now

stay mad!

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ThaTruth
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217. "Bron will be lucky to get 5 more years out of his body"
In response to Reply # 213


          

________________________________________
Watch For The Hook
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy9Fun9CuZ4

  

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40thStreetBlack
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218. "U said he WILL have the #s to make the case for GOAT regardless of rings"
In response to Reply # 198


  

          

>couple of days without you smearing my name
>
>c'mon fam, you better than that (I hope)
>
>what I said, and follow me here, I'm going to type it out
>
>read slowly, I'm tired of re-explaining it
>
>EFFICIENCY will be his legacy
>
>if you PROJECT his career
>
>he has A CHANCE at being
>
>#1 in points, all-time
>top 10 in assists, all-time
>and top 20 in rebounds, all-time
>
>add those up, and it equates to the most efficient player of
>all time.
>
>in the era of analytics and stat geeks

No, it equates to the biggest stat stuffer of all time. Jordan's efficiency stats are actually better with a higher PER and WS/48 than lebron. And bron's efficiency #'s will only continue to decline going forward.


>
>that will be their case for Bron and GOAT (+ all the hardware,
>you are aware he's won about every award possible at this
>point in his career, including rings)
>
>in case you aren't, here's what he's done at 30 Y.O.:
>
>2× NBA Champion (2012–2013)
>2× NBA Finals MVP (2012–2013)
>4× NBA Most Valuable Player (2009–2010, 2012–2013)
>11× NBA All-Star (2005–2015)
>2× NBA All-Star Game MVP (2006, 2008)
>9× All-NBA First Team (2006, 2008–2015)
>2× All-NBA Second Team (2005, 2007)
>5× NBA All-Defensive First Team (2009–2013)
>NBA Rookie of the Year (2004)
>NBA scoring champion (2008)
>
>yes, rings may not be his legacy*
>
>rings are Bill Russell's legacy, for NBA history
>
>rings are MJ's legacy, in the modern era, based on his
>incredible runs

Rings AND numbers + hardware are MJ's legacy. Or are you forgetting that he won a record 10 scoring titles, 5 MVPs, DPOY, and has the highest career scoring average in NBA history?

>
>given that Bron will probably not execute 2 3-peats in his
>career
>
>or win 11 chips
>
>and I'll go out on a limb here and say NO ONE WILL
>
>that will always give MJ the edge based on JUST rings <---
>that's HIS legacy

No. His legacy is the totality of all his accomplishments (some briefly mentioned above.) the rings are his trump card.

>
>now if we consider a player in his 11th season, playing in his
>6th finals
>
>I think it's safe to say he gets some more chips
>
>how many...IDK
>
>*but there is a possibility that he does end up with 6
>
>an outside chance, but still a chance
>
>so if he does retire ranked all-time in those stats I listed
>
>the question is
>
>not how many does he win
>
>but how many does he need + the stats to be GOAT?

Yeah, that's not what you said.


>BYE!

Bye, liar.


<----- Long Live The King

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
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78. "it's just hilarisad to see posters claim CPPlea is...something..."
In response to Reply # 69


  

          

best PG in the game

equal to Magic and Zeke

but refuse to give Bron his propers

and continue to move the goal posts

cool, he may not win 6

and if that is indeed a valid argument against him being in the GOAT conversation*

how does that reflect on others like CP65 and counting?

*Bron's accomplishments to date, at 30 Y.O., warrants the discussion

of course he's not the GOAT...yet.

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you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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ThaTruth
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81. "exactly, people are very selective with the argument depending on who..."
In response to Reply # 78


          

they like better

________________________________________
Watch For The Hook
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy9Fun9CuZ4

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
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Wed May-27-15 06:19 PM

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82. "Who said CPPlea is equal to Magic and Zeke?"
In response to Reply # 78


  

          

****************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

"Dude just seems like he's been chosen for some reason. Maybe he did a backspin for Oprah or something." micMajestic

http://www.discogs.com/user/buhloone

  

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melmag
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93. "except no one here or the media ever said that"
In response to Reply # 78


  

          

I'll wait for dat link tbo

>best PG in the game
>
>equal to Magic and Zeke
>

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
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Wed May-27-15 07:44 PM

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114. "here's your link"
In response to Reply # 93
Wed May-27-15 07:47 PM by bentagain

  

          

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=8&topic_id=2436578&mesg_id=2436578&listing_type=search

"Paul absolutely deserves to be in that clump of
guards at the top"

and that's just the OP

obviously if nobody was co-signing it

there wouldn't have been 250+ replies

yes, I am familiar with the authors work

still

that post got run on this board.

you can scroll and pick out the Ls at your convenience

and if you watch basketball

the sentiment travels outside the board

I've seen more than a couple of commentators praise CP65 and counting

he's the best this

he's the best that

so yeah

at some point, all of these agenda are going to need calibration

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you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Wed May-27-15 10:07 PM

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131. "Never said he was as good as Isiah, stinky liar"
In response to Reply # 114


  

          


You stank shells?

Why?

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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bshelly
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84. "Hey look, a Jordan guy and a Kobe guy fetishizing rings together"
In response to Reply # 69


  

          

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

  

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dula dibiasi
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86. "i rate this reply a 2 out of 6."
In response to Reply # 84


  

          

maybe a 3, check back in a few weeks.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
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Wed May-27-15 07:53 PM

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120. "daps"
In response to Reply # 86


  

          

.

  

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ThaTruth
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88. "#RingsMatter"
In response to Reply # 84


          

________________________________________
Watch For The Hook
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy9Fun9CuZ4

  

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bshelly
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111. "Both Kobe and Jorn played with a top 25 all time playwr"
In response to Reply # 88


  

          

Something Bron has never done.

But, yeah, it's will to win that got Cheesy and No Means No all their rings.

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

  

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40thStreetBlack
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175. "Pippen is not a top 25 all time player & is not better than healthy Wade"
In response to Reply # 111


  

          

>Something Bron has never done.
>
>But, yeah, it's will to win that got Cheesy and No Means No
>all their rings.

Yeah, I really wish we could see what Lebron could do if he had some help.


<----- Long Live The King

  

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LegacyNS
Member since Jan 16th 2004
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Sun May-31-15 12:07 PM

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187. "says the Iverson guy fighting a proxy war "
In response to Reply # 84
Sun May-31-15 12:09 PM by LegacyNS

  

          

You know Bron could win 10 rings and guess what?

Iverson is still ringless.
Bron didn't play in Philly
Kobe still got 5
You still mad...

lol

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- 5....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlgiritpmfo

=======================================

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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Wed May-27-15 06:45 PM

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91. "but did ONE person say he was the GOAT?"
In response to Reply # 69
Wed May-27-15 06:50 PM by ConcreteCharlie

  

          

the highest i saw him ranked was third and that was just one very dedicated fan, who even conceded he could be fourth.

most people had him in the back half of their top 10. is that unreasonable RIGHT TODAY? your own assertion that he is top 5 all time is actually among the most controversial made here or in any respectable place.

don't join in on this gangbang of a strawman.

as far as contingencies, i didnt do that but i understand (c) chris rock. the way people move the goalposts on lebron and actually count his accomplishments *against him* makes that sort of effort to obviate almost necessary, unfortunately.

i agree that if he goes 2 for 6 he won't be the best ever but i mean water is also moist. getting to the finals *should* be regarded differently overall though. it is so baffling to me that people can laugh their ass off at the 90s bills, and then turn around to reveal they are fans of the jets or bengals or some other dead ass team that spent the 90s in the seventh circle of football hell.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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ThaTruth
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94. "At least 15 people have him top 5, that's blasphemous IMO"
In response to Reply # 91


          

________________________________________
Watch For The Hook
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy9Fun9CuZ4

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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97. "That is too high right today. He could get there though, not hard to see"
In response to Reply # 94


  

          

It's tough though, to me, Shaq, Kobe and Duncan all had the opportunity to ascend that high and did not quite make it.

You know who I think is criminally underrated? Elvin Hayes. I haven't seen him on one top 10. I could see a strong case for him against the Duncans, McHales, Barkleys, Malones and Dirks.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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dula dibiasi
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101. "i look at it in terms of tiers."
In response to Reply # 97


  

          

top 3 for me are jorn, wilt, cap. they imo are untouchable. he won't
catch them. nothing to do with rings, they were just better players imo.

after that there's a group of 4 or 5 guys that you could split hairs
about ordering. lebron for me is already in that group if he doesn't
play another minute. that's why i say top 5. ie as high as 4th.

like i said in the other post, i'm not big on cross-era comps, i
prefer to judge guys against their peers. but if i was doing an all
time rushmore or whatever, those would prolly be my 4. as
transcendent players of their respective eras.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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ThaTruth
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103. "so people like Oscar, Magic, and Bird ain't shit now huh? not to mention..."
In response to Reply # 101


          

Mr. 11 Rangs himself. To hell with Shaq and Timmy too. Dream, Moses? fuck them too. I guess Dr. J was a hype...

>top 3 for me are jorn, wilt, cap. they imo are untouchable.
>he won't
>catch them. nothing to do with rings, they were just better
>players imo.
>
>after that there's a group of 4 or 5 guys that you could split
>hairs
>about ordering. lebron for me is already in that group if he
>doesn't
>play another minute. that's why i say top 5. ie as high as
>4th.
>
>like i said in the other post, i'm not big on cross-era comps,
>i
>prefer to judge guys against their peers. but if i was doing
>an all
>time rushmore or whatever, those would prolly be my 4. as
>transcendent players of their respective eras.

________________________________________
Watch For The Hook
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy9Fun9CuZ4

  

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dula dibiasi
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107. "you named all the guys in that 'tier of 5' that i mentioned."
In response to Reply # 103


  

          

which is probably more like a tier of 6, on second thought.

the others you named? yes, lebron is a better player imo.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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ThaTruth
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109. "Lebron is already better than Shaq, Dream & Duncan? "
In response to Reply # 107


          

________________________________________
Watch For The Hook
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dula dibiasi
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118. "that could be argued, sure."
In response to Reply # 109


  

          

as i previously said, for me there's a tier after those top 3
untouchables, basically a 5 or 6 way tie for 4th. so i wouldn't fight
anyone putting him as high as 4th or as low as 8th or 9th. so sure,
as a basketball player, you can make the argument for him vs any of those guys.

lebron's really fucking good, dogg.

where do you rank him all time right today, out of curiosity?

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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astralblak
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121. "yes"
In response to Reply # 109


  

          

but Duncan and Shaq should be placed above him right today

  

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melmag
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122. "by a good margin even"
In response to Reply # 109


  

          


Again, put the ring argument aside and compare their bodies of work. It aint hard to tell

  

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pretentious username
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124. "you're gonna argue Dream over Bron?"
In response to Reply # 109


  

          

cmon man, that's just hate. pure and simple.

  

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ThaTruth
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125. "2 = 2"
In response to Reply # 124


          

________________________________________
Watch For The Hook
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy9Fun9CuZ4

  

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pretentious username
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126. "...and pretty much everything else is in Bron's favor."
In response to Reply # 125


  

          

  

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ThaTruth
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127. "c'mon, you really gonna make me stump for Dream? 2-time champion..."
In response to Reply # 126


          

2-time Finals MVP, League MVP, 2-time DPOY, #1 all-time in blocks(and yeah I know it wasn't an official stat until 73-74 but still)

________________________________________
Watch For The Hook
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy9Fun9CuZ4

  

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dula dibiasi
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128. "where do you rank lebron all time right today?"
In response to Reply # 127


  

          

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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ThaTruth
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129. "maybe 10th, its tough because his career is still being written"
In response to Reply # 128


          

________________________________________
Watch For The Hook
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy9Fun9CuZ4

  

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dula dibiasi
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132. "word."
In response to Reply # 129


  

          

i think we should make sure that we don't lose sight of the most
important lesson here: at the end of the day we're quibbling over
whether a guy is the 5th best or 15th best of the 3000+ players in
nba history. which pretty much makes us all idiots and bad at life.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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pretentious username
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138. "You list these two like Bron hasn't acheived them:"
In response to Reply # 127


  

          

>2-time Finals MVP, League MVP

I could also list more things that Bron has done that Dream never did. Not gonna bother though. Cause you're stubborn and just hating.

  

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40thStreetBlack
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178. "Except winning without another star player"
In response to Reply # 126


  

          

Among other things.


<----- Long Live The King

  

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Lach
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179. "Who did in recent memory besides Dream?"
In response to Reply # 178


  

          

  

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40thStreetBlack
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190. "Duncan in '03 and Dirk"
In response to Reply # 179


  

          


<----- Long Live The King

  

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Lach
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191. "I guess we can say Duncan but Parker & Manu were emerging"
In response to Reply # 190


  

          

Definitely forgot about Dirkster. But one thing is in common for what we're talking about - 6'10-7 footers able to win titles without a second star. Don't really see it at all when it comes to wings.

  

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pretentious username
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180. "Yeah, I'd say 6 finals eclipses that"
In response to Reply # 178


  

          

Among other things.

  

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ThaTruth
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181. "not if you only won 2 of them #RingsMatter"
In response to Reply # 180
Sat May-30-15 09:29 PM by ThaTruth

          

.

________________________________________
Watch For The Hook
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy9Fun9CuZ4

  

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pretentious username
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183. "Uhhhh, yeah... even then"
In response to Reply # 181


  

          

Leading your team to the finals 6 times is more impressive than leading them there twice and bowing out early the other 4. That's not even a question. Would you consider Tracy McGrady to have a better legacy than similar players who made it to the finals and lost? No, that would be idiotic.

Not to mention the numerous other accomplishments Bron has over Dream. You listed MVP as a plus for Dream as if Bron had never won one, let alone 4.

  

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40thStreetBlack
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189. "3 Finals, beasted in all 3, 2 rings including winning 1 w/no other stars"
In response to Reply # 180
Sun May-31-15 05:14 PM by 40thStreetBlack

  

          

Yeah, I'd say that stands up fairly well against 6 finals that include being overwhelmed in 1, choking like a dog in another, needing two hall of fame teammates for the 2 he did win, and getting steamrolled in another. Especially since ppl want to give bron bonus points for getting to the finals without the help of other star players. Olajuwon did that AND won a ring.


Among other things.


<----- Long Live The King

  

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pretentious username
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192. "okay, how about 4 MVPs to 1"
In response to Reply # 189


  

          

Jesus christ guys, this isn't even a debate.

  

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40thStreetBlack
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193. "Moses Malone has 3 MVPs to Shaq's 1"
In response to Reply # 192


  

          

So then Moses must be better than Shaq, right?


<----- Long Live The King

  

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pretentious username
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194. "no."
In response to Reply # 193


  

          

  

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40thStreetBlack
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195. "oh."
In response to Reply # 194


  

          


<----- Long Live The King

  

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Vex_id
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186. "Cry. "
In response to Reply # 109


          


-->

  

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40thStreetBlack
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176. "Oscar never even made it to the Finals without Kareem carrying him there"
In response to Reply # 103


  

          

So, yeah.


<----- Long Live The King

  

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dula dibiasi
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95. "not at all, i've got him even higher than that."
In response to Reply # 91


  

          

>most people had him in the back half of their top 10. is that
>unreasonable RIGHT TODAY?

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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98. "right but so i dont get who your response is aimed at"
In response to Reply # 95


  

          

i understand thatruth's perspective and from a strict ranking standpoint i kind of agree with him. i'd have bron a little lower than you right now. but who is this bron-as-goat contingent? where do they rest at?

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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astralblak
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116. "+1"
In response to Reply # 69


  

          

.

  

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Binlahab
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85. "*thunderous ovation* nm"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


does it really matter?

wonder what bin's doing?
http://i.imgur.com/phECCMp.jpg

  

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melmag
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99. "#FieldGoalsMatter"
In response to Reply # 0
Wed May-27-15 07:11 PM by melmag

  

          

like how do you justify Kobe as top5 when he's missed more shots
than ANYONE in NBA history? thats mind boggling when u think about it.

I fully expect you to come out your neck and scream "5" as thats what
you've always desperately clung on to pertaining to Kobe, but thats a big ass eye sore one cant overlook imo

  

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ThaTruth
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100. "RE: #FieldGoalPercentagesMatter"
In response to Reply # 99


          

>like how so you justify Kobe as top5 when he's missed more
>shots
>than ANYONE in NBA history? thats mind boggling when u think
>about it

Well he's attempted more shots than everyone but Cap and Mailman and they're post players that had the top 3 point guards in NBA history getting them the ball so theres that.

________________________________________
Watch For The Hook
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy9Fun9CuZ4

  

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Bombastic
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106. "6-for-24"
In response to Reply # 100


  

          

www.somethinginthewudder.com

https://twitter.com/nostrabombus

https://www.facebook.com/matt.koelling.96

https://www.instagram.com/something_in_the_wudder/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-koelling-438a803?trk=hp-identity-name

  

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ThaTruth
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108. "2 for 5, potentially 2 for 6, how many all-time greats have a losing..."
In response to Reply # 106


          

record in the Finals?

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Bombastic
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110. "#FieldGoalPercentagesMatter #KobestansJustGrowMadder"
In response to Reply # 108


  

          

www.somethinginthewudder.com

https://twitter.com/nostrabombus

https://www.facebook.com/matt.koelling.96

https://www.instagram.com/something_in_the_wudder/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-koelling-438a803?trk=hp-identity-name

  

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ThaTruth
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113. "The 2011 NBA Finals. It happened..."
In response to Reply # 110


          

http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_2011_finals.html

No matter how much y'all try to hide from it, deny it, bury it, it happened.

Your boy crawled into a hole and died.

________________________________________
Watch For The Hook
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melmag
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115. "Kobe blowing a 2-0 lead vs Phoenix also happened"
In response to Reply # 113
Wed May-27-15 07:48 PM by melmag

  

          

Also 6 for 24 happened

never dominating a Finals series happened

Oh,and Eagle Colorado happened as well

  

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ThaTruth
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123. "5 #RingsMatter"
In response to Reply # 115


          

________________________________________
Watch For The Hook
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy9Fun9CuZ4

  

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LegacyNS
Member since Jan 16th 2004
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135. "Bron just went 14-37 & you mofos didn't say one word.."
In response to Reply # 115


  

          

GTEFOH.. lol


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- 5....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlgiritpmfo

=======================================

  

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Dr Claw
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146. "dogg, several times I've hit the 'If That Was Kobe' button "
In response to Reply # 135


  

          

LeBron has been a master of masking the poo poo shooting this playoffs.

but I cringe when he goes for 3 now.

Funny thing, if he hits a better percentage of those shots, the level of GUILE would surpass cowbell levels

shit would be ANVIL

  

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LegacyNS
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173. "Bron is not 25 any more.. I keep telling people that.."
In response to Reply # 146
Sat May-30-15 08:39 AM by LegacyNS

  

          

However, even with that LeBron has struggled shooting but he hit a key game winner vs Chicago. He had a great overall game vs Atlanta regardless of going 14-37.

People talking about Kobe going 6-24 ignore his 15 rebounds. With Bron, they simply highlight the positives..

Either way... I can care less becuz at the end of the day we're sitting in the clubhouse with a hand full of sparklers. Agendamaniacs can talk about Bron all they want. Kobe will still have 5 and they'll still be mad about. lol



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- 5....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlgiritpmfo

=======================================

  

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melmag
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112. "how many all time greats have even gotten that far?"
In response to Reply # 108


  

          


not to mention with 3 entirely different teams. 2 of the 3 are essentially lottery teams without him there. chew on that for a sec

  

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Dr Claw
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145. "LeBron went 10/30 in Bulls Game 4, and has had other poo-poo performance..."
In response to Reply # 106


  

          

that ended up great in the end... FG% don't matter as long as you bring home a win and contribute

Yes, I'm mad. Let's move on.

Jays | Cavs | Eagles | Sabres | Tarheels

PSN: Dr_Claw_77 | XBL: Dr Claw 077 | FB: drclaw077 | T: @drclaw77 | http://thepeoplesvault.wordpress.com

  

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Bombastic
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147. "tell it to the guy above me who wrote FG%Matters, I simply said 6-for-24"
In response to Reply # 145


  

          

though I'd stop short of pretending that Kobe performance was anywhere near the realm of these recently inefficient Lebron games in terms of impact on his team.

But I can barely think of more than 2 or 3 all-time canonical Kobe playoff games ever and he's played in more of them than anyone.

www.somethinginthewudder.com

https://twitter.com/nostrabombus

https://www.facebook.com/matt.koelling.96

https://www.instagram.com/something_in_the_wudder/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-koelling-438a803?trk=hp-identity-name

  

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vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
20388 posts
Wed May-27-15 07:13 PM

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102. "^^^^^sees it"
In response to Reply # 99


  

          

>like how do you justify Kobe as top5 when he's missed more
>shots
>than ANYONE in NBA history? thats mind boggling when u think
>about it.
>
>I fully expect you to come out your neck and scream "5" as
>thats what
>you've always desperately clung on to pertaining to Kobe, but
>thats a big ass eye sore one cant overlook imo

grassrootsphilosopher

  

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Bombastic
Charter member
88861 posts
Wed May-27-15 07:17 PM

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104. "http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2818239/bronduncan.gif"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2818239/bronduncan.gif

www.somethinginthewudder.com

https://twitter.com/nostrabombus

https://www.facebook.com/matt.koelling.96

https://www.instagram.com/something_in_the_wudder/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-koelling-438a803?trk=hp-identity-name

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
20029 posts
Wed May-27-15 07:50 PM

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117. "I read all of that and enjoyed it"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

.

  

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Rjcc
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133. "see!"
In response to Reply # 117


          


www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
23113 posts
Wed May-27-15 10:36 PM

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134. "So what does this thread prove?...."
In response to Reply # 0
Wed May-27-15 10:43 PM by murph71

          


1. People who measure the greatness of a player in a team sport strictly on ring count never heard of the word nuanced.....

2. People (even some Bulls fans in this thread) continue to misunderstand the greatness of Jordan. He's not the GOAT because he has 6 championships. He's the GOAT because he went 6 for 6 in the FINALS and completely dominated in those games racking up a gang of Finals MVP's....

3. The homie Truth just tried some brilliant 30 foot Strawman shit in an attempt to covertly CAPE for Bean Bryant....

I only see one person saying James is top 3 RIGHT NOW....And u can't really take that person seriously at this point....

The rest r saying that James is at 4-5-6 or at the very least is low top 10....It's not a shocker to say that James is better than Magic or Bird....There are a lot of media types and historians who feel that way....I don't have James in my top 3 yet. Gonna take a few more years of dominance for that to happen....

But saying that dude is top 5? Hell, if a Bulls fans can come around to this reality, I think everyone should be able to keep it real...



GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

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ErnestLee
Member since Mar 03rd 2003
28528 posts
Wed May-27-15 10:42 PM

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136. "http://i.imgur.com/7Ukb8kq.gif"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://i.imgur.com/7Ukb8kq.gif

---------------------------------------------------------

  

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ErnestLee
Member since Mar 03rd 2003
28528 posts
Wed May-27-15 10:42 PM

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137. "Wilt pretty much deads this whole dissertation"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

---------------------------------------------------------

  

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go mack
Member since May 02nd 2008
3807 posts
Thu May-28-15 08:45 AM

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139. "I don't think he wins this year"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Im sure he realizes its importance tho. Winning this year with this team would be huge for his legacy.

The way the East is tho, with a healthier team I can see the Cavs in the Finals often, 8 straight finals appearances? It could happen. Winning a couple of those will obviously help the legacy.

I like your post overall tho, will be interesting to see how his career ends up. Them West teams tho, that's where it will be interesting to see if he can conquer. Golden State, healthy OKC, healthy Spurs with possibly Gasol or Aldridge. He's gonna have some competition for sure, just not likely in the East.

  

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Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
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Thu May-28-15 02:15 PM

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144. "I agree with this entire post. Don't crown their asses, let them earn it..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I think if LeBron can hold up a few seasons more he will make it even more of a conversation than it already is.

and if he does it when he's old on some Tim Duncan shit?

Well... that's gonna put him in the top 3, if not GOAT category

Yes, I'm mad. Let's move on.

Jays | Cavs | Eagles | Sabres | Tarheels

PSN: Dr_Claw_77 | XBL: Dr Claw 077 | FB: drclaw077 | T: @drclaw77 | http://thepeoplesvault.wordpress.com

  

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ThaTruth
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148. " #BronCurve"
In response to Reply # 0


          

https://www.facebook.com/NOTSportsCenter/posts/1084727988221594:0

________________________________________
Watch For The Hook
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy9Fun9CuZ4

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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Thu May-28-15 09:00 PM

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149. "lol JORDAN FACED WEAKER COMP THAN MAGIC AND BIRD DID lol"
In response to Reply # 148


  

          

http://i.imgur.com/8L3J3AP.jpg

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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LegacyNS
Member since Jan 16th 2004
37956 posts
Mon Jun-01-15 02:37 PM

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197. "lolz"
In response to Reply # 149


  

          


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- 5....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlgiritpmfo

=======================================

  

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vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
20388 posts
Thu May-28-15 09:31 PM

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151. "Won't change the fact that at 30 yrs of age w/still time to accomplish"
In response to Reply # 148
Thu May-28-15 09:31 PM by vee-lover

  

          

a lot more that he has already surpassed ya boy in most ppl's mind

Bron coming for Jorn now

Pull up all the links you want lol

Oh and the Spurs (and I'd say OKC too) were better teams than any team Bean/LA faced in all his 5 final

grassrootsphilosopher

  

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ThaTruth
Charter member
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157. "FOH, Kobe was trashing the Spurs when Timmy, Tony & Manu..."
In response to Reply # 151


          

>a lot more that he has already surpassed ya boy in most ppl's
>mind
>
>Bron coming for Jorn now
>
>Pull up all the links you want lol
>
>Oh and the Spurs (and I'd say OKC too) were better teams than
>any team Bean/LA faced in all his 5 final

were in their primes, that OKC was one of the youngest to make the finals ever

________________________________________
Watch For The Hook
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy9Fun9CuZ4

  

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Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10944 posts
Thu May-28-15 09:33 PM

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152. "This is a bit of a stat juke"
In response to Reply # 148
Thu May-28-15 09:51 PM by Call It Anything

  

          

Cumulative totals for players whose careers are done/further along v. a guy who is still playing his age 30 season. It under counts the year he won a title in stoppage-shortened year, OKC would have been a 58 win team instead of 47-19. It over counts some of Kobe's early series because he didn't start in any of those games. The 50/49 cut-off helps Bird, who beat 3 50-32 teams in the playoffs. In an effort to take out some of the noise, I'm re-calibrating that list:

Series wins through Age 30 season against opponents with >.585 regular season winning percentage, in series which the player started every game:

Kobe Bryant - 18
Tim Duncan - 16
Magic Johnson - 11
Michael Jordan - 11
Larry Bird - 10
LeBron James - 10* (Pending 2015 Finals)

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
21925 posts
Thu May-28-15 10:05 PM

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153. "RE: the age-30-season thing"
In response to Reply # 152
Thu May-28-15 10:34 PM by dula dibiasi

  

          

all these guys started their careers at different ages. so
the 'age 30 season' stipulation is just as much of a stat juke.
it's just a juke in the opposite direction, that makes lebron's
totals look more favorable.

what are the totals through each player's season 12?

edit: never mind, i looked it up.

going through 'season 12' rather than 'age 30 season' adds
6 series wins to jordan's total (CHA 95, ORL/SEA 96, ATL/MIA/UTA 97),
2 to duncan's (PHO/NOH 08) and magic's (HOU/POR 91), 1 to bird's (ATL 88)
and subtracts 4 from kobe's total (UTA/HOU/DEN/ORL 09).

duncan - 18
jordan - 17
bryant - 14
johnson - 13
bird - 11
james - 10 pending 2015 finals






>Series wins through Age 30 season against opponents with >.585
>regular season winning percentage, in series which the player
>started every game:
>
>Kobe Bryant - 18
>Tim Duncan - 16
>Magic Johnson - 11
>Michael Jordan - 11
>Larry Bird - 10
>LeBron James - 10* (Pending 2015 Finals)
>

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
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Thu May-28-15 10:33 PM

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156. "It's the same data, filtered a different way"
In response to Reply # 153


  

          

>all these guys started their careers at different ages. so
>the 'age 30 season' stipulation is just as much of a stat
>juke.
>it's just a juke in the opposite direction, that makes
>lebron's
>totals look more favorable.
>
>what are the totals through each player's season 12?

I'm not particularly interested in that list. I think age is a more significant baseline as opposed to seasons because it matters most in the end. Anyway, everybody had different situations coming into the league too. Jordan didn't beat a 50 wins team until his 5th season at age 25. Magic beat 3 in his first season at age 20. Kobe beat two in his teenage years scoring single digits coming off the bench.

But if you compare the ESPN list with the list that I made, you can see that Jordan was awesome in his 30s, while Bird and Magic were basically done shortly after turning 30. Kobe won a title at 31 and hasn't won a 50+ win series since.

Duncan is really the one who gets screwed by that ESPN list because he had deep runs in 2 work stoppage years. Using my parameters but removing the Age 30 cap, he'd have 25, which would put him #1 on that list ahead of Kobe's 22 and Jordan's 20.

  

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ThaTruth
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Fri May-29-15 03:20 AM

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159. "^^^PLEAS COPPED"
In response to Reply # 152


          

________________________________________
Watch For The Hook
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy9Fun9CuZ4

  

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vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
20388 posts
Fri May-29-15 07:28 AM

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160. "^^^^^nah he shat on your agenda"
In response to Reply # 159


  

          

>

grassrootsphilosopher

  

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ThaTruth
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Fri May-29-15 12:59 PM

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165. "nah, he tried to juke the stats, part of the greatness of Kobe(and Tim)...."
In response to Reply # 160


          

is their longevity in much more competitive conference.

________________________________________
Watch For The Hook
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy9Fun9CuZ4

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
11338 posts
Fri May-29-15 01:23 PM

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168. "whereas Bron IS the Eastern Conference"
In response to Reply # 165


  

          

  

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-DJ R-Tistic-
Member since Nov 06th 2008
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200. "Not even saying it means much, BUT...still, Kobe is #1 on there"
In response to Reply # 152


  

          

and Bron is last, LOL.

------------------------------

50+ FREE Mixes on www.DJR-Tistic.com!

Twitter and Instagram - @DJ_RTistic

  

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ThaTruth
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Tue Jun-02-15 11:49 AM

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202. "right, lol"
In response to Reply # 200


          

________________________________________
Watch For The Hook
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy9Fun9CuZ4

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
11338 posts
Fri May-29-15 07:52 AM

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163. "goddamn, you're pressed"
In response to Reply # 148


  

          

if you had just done the original post, kept it to a paragraph or two, you would've had a strong agenda here. nearly bulletproof even. instead you're going too hard, talking circles around yourself, and getting exposed with your own logic.

  

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ThaTruth
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166. "ok if you say so. n/m"
In response to Reply # 163


          

________________________________________
Watch For The Hook
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy9Fun9CuZ4

  

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Kungset
Member since Mar 29th 2004
6364 posts
Fri May-29-15 11:11 AM

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164. "yeah, this is actually an interesting stat to me"
In response to Reply # 148


  

          

IMO it takes a lot of the luster out of his finals appearances without wins

  

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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
40707 posts
Sat May-30-15 04:01 PM

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177. "Really this is a knock on the East more than anything."
In response to Reply # 148


  

          

I've avoided this post, and that stat, but this really isnt much of a knock on Lebron, to be honest.

------------------------------
'19-'20 Bubble Lakers

X.X.X.X.X.X.X.X.X.X.X.X.X.X.X.X

2020 NBA Champions

  

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ThaTruth
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182. "When people are hyping "5 straight finals" as if its the equvalent..."
In response to Reply # 177


          

of 5 titles certain things need to be clarified.

________________________________________
Watch For The Hook
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy9Fun9CuZ4

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
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Sun May-31-15 02:48 AM

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184. "who did that exactly?"
In response to Reply # 182


  

          

>of 5 titles certain things need to be clarified.

  

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Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
15507 posts
Thu May-28-15 10:10 PM

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154. "Teams matter"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

You can't name a team that had one solo star and no co-star that was not an allstar or all pro potentially all time great.

Bron is not he most polished offensive player but the way he dominates a game is so understated yet clearly understood.

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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BlackLex
Charter member
549 posts
Fri May-29-15 01:12 PM

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167. "Lebron is the GOAT"
In response to Reply # 0


          

He only loses when his teammates aren't good enough.

#BronCurve

https://youtu.be/Z3eaTBtJur8

  

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ThaTruth
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91248 posts
Fri May-29-15 01:39 PM

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169. "yep, lol..."
In response to Reply # 167


          

>He only loses when his teammates aren't good enough.
>
>#BronCurve
>
>https://youtu.be/Z3eaTBtJur8

________________________________________
Watch For The Hook
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy9Fun9CuZ4

  

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Lach
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170. "The only all-time great wing to shoot less than 20% from 3 in playoffs?"
In response to Reply # 167


  

          

Yall stay attacking this dude but I don't know why.

  

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Oak27
Member since Apr 17th 2005
12401 posts
Fri May-29-15 02:52 PM

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171. "If the East is so weak, why don't more players come play in it?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Are they scared of LeBron?

  

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ThaTruth
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Fri May-29-15 02:58 PM

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172. "what "stars" have changed teams and went west?"
In response to Reply # 171


          

________________________________________
Watch For The Hook
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy9Fun9CuZ4

  

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-DJ R-Tistic-
Member since Nov 06th 2008
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204. "LOL! Maybe because the teams are weak, so it's no point?"
In response to Reply # 171


  

          

"Let me join the East so my path is clearer...wait...what team can I join since they're all probably too weak to make it to the Finals?" Guess they'd only be choosing 2-3 teams to go to?

------------------------------

50+ FREE Mixes on www.DJR-Tistic.com!

Twitter and Instagram - @DJ_RTistic

  

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Cenario
Member since Aug 24th 2005
56980 posts
Tue Jun-02-15 11:56 AM

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206. "you'd have to be either joining a strong team or bringing some friends."
In response to Reply # 171


  

          

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
32447 posts
Sun May-31-15 12:21 PM

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188. "this post just reinforces that Dula D is the best hoops poster here"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I hope his days of sipping rum out of Lord Stanley's hardware dont return, but other than that...

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

  

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Cenario
Member since Aug 24th 2005
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199. "Its always funny to me that he's supposed to be the best but there are"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

always these excuses or qualifiers for him from his stans. If you believe he's as great as you say, then you should be fine with him being under the biggest microscope instead of crying anytime anyone has a criticism.

Its mind boggling.

I don't remember Jordan or Kobe stans doing this much whining. They just laughed at the haters as their fav player continued to amass jewelry and accolades.

Bron stans be crying about what Bron doesn't have to do(equal Jordan/Kobe in rings) unprovoked lol

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
15097 posts
Tue Jun-02-15 11:43 AM

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201. "RE: post MJ perspective"
In response to Reply # 199


  

          

nobody said MJ had to win 6

but he set that bar

and Kobe grafted off of MJ

so that translated

win 6, or you ain't it

and folks still hold that over Kobe's head

IRT Bron

if that is the 1 remaining critique

he ain't got 6

which is a silly argument to make against a 30 Y.O. anyway

I think it says alot about what he's already achieved

with a chance at 3, this year

even if he were to win 6

folks would still have a, yeah but...

^^^ speaking for myself, that is the issue

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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Cenario
Member since Aug 24th 2005
56980 posts
Tue Jun-02-15 11:56 AM

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205. "is it as silly to claim a 30 year old is the GOAT?"
In response to Reply # 201


  

          

>which is a silly argument to make against a 30 Y.O. anyway

bc that's where that comes from.

And there was a lot of 'yeah, but' when kobe was winning his chips. Each and every one. Kobe fans laughed partly bc kobe haters unwittingly set the bar higher for anyone who they were going to try to push as being all-time better than Kobe.....ie Tmac, Vince, AI and now Bron.

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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ThaTruth
Charter member
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207. "lol, you keep acting like 30 is young for an NBA player, Jordan and Kobe..."
In response to Reply # 201


          

were exceptions, the list of people that won multiple titles past age 30 is short. Magic won all 5 of his titles in his 20's. Duncan won 4 of his 5 in his 20's.

So acting like Lebron can easily roll off 3 or 4 more titles past age 30 is kinda unrealistic.

________________________________________
Watch For The Hook
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy9Fun9CuZ4

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
15097 posts
Tue Jun-02-15 02:40 PM

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208. "SAY SOMETHING...you and Cen"
In response to Reply # 207


  

          

look up and down this post

and read the names

repeatedly typing Jordan, Kobe, etc...

is that really an argument AGAINST being one of the greats?

when you consider the players that he's being compared to

it shoudl be clear, no?

IDK who said he IS the GOAT

I don't doubt somewhere in the internets you can find somebody to say it

but I'd also suspect that person didn't SEE Jordan play

the reason we're having the conversation

is because of what he's accomplished

put parameters on it

what does he have to do for you to consider him GOAT?

I suspect you have already made up your mind despite Bron having years left to his career

but it's easier to be a naysayer

in your opinion

what would his final resume have to be for the #1 spot?

say something

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you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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ThaTruth
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210. "#RingsMatter "
In response to Reply # 208


          

________________________________________
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bentagain
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211. "see reply 209 "
In response to Reply # 210


  

          

say something

how many?

put a # on it

any parameter really

running around here championing some ideal that can't be validated for years anyway

so in the end

how many #rings does it take for you to stfu?

got 2

playing for 3

according to you he needs: ___________

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Cenario
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214. "i really don't do those arguments fam. "
In response to Reply # 208


  

          

nowhere in my post did i say he can't reach being the best or anything like that. so i can quantify that bc it doesn't matter to me.

I just made an observation about the stans.

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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bentagain
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215. "stans are irrational (c) Cen "
In response to Reply # 214


  

          

that summarizes your Bron stance

got it

any other pearls of wisdom you want to share?

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Cenario
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216. "nope that about it."
In response to Reply # 215


  

          

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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ThaTruth
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219. "Lebron is a great player and what he's doing is awesome right now but..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

I think people are really starting to overhype this "without his 2nd or 3rd option" thing, lol.

It was obvious right around the all-star break that they were a better team without Love on the court.

The loss of Kyrie's scoring and ballhandling is big but at the same time Delly is a better defender than Kyrie and overall the Cavs probably have better ball movement offensively when Kyrie is out.

The Warriors were the highest scoring team in the league this year at 110ppg. The Cavs held them to 93 points yesterday through regulation AND overtime.

Do they do that with Love and Kyrie in the lineup?

I doubt it.

________________________________________
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy9Fun9CuZ4

  

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Vex_id
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220. "^said he couldn't see the Cavs as contenders w/ a *healthy* lineup"
In response to Reply # 219


          

Can you see them as contenders now with Delly and Mozgawd as their next best two players?

Or is it still a "myth"?

That you've resorted to exquisitely copping MIGHTY pleas on some "but they are better w/ Delly anyway!!" and fumbling all over the place w/ your argument is GOLD.

I love it.

TheFallacy gonna fallacy.

-->

  

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ThaTruth
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221. "did I say something in post #219 that was untrue?"
In response to Reply # 220


          

________________________________________
Watch For The Hook
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ConcreteCharlie
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225. "Yes, numerous things, actually"
In response to Reply # 221


  

          

Even if they are better with Thompson on the floor than Love (I agree with that), they are not better without Love in general. As part of their rotation of bigs, he is an asset. He rebounds as well as Thompson while scoring and facing the floor more effectively, his defense just sucks. His absence magnifies the need for Kyrie and vice verse. Irving being out is big, natural scorer and playmaker that's been replaced with a guy who is neither. And that guy would be contributing in a more comfortable role while Irving, who is a better defender than give him credit for, would be slotting everyone into more comfortable roles, including LeBron.

I mean your efforts to discredit LeBron are almost as ridiculous as Vex's dickriding.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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Kira
Member since Nov 14th 2004
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Mon Jun-08-15 07:25 PM

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222. "11>>>>>6 #NoRingsDontMatter..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

The fact that y'all Cuban B B. Russell tells us unequivocally, rings don't matter. 11>>>6 6 is one more than 5 so they about equal when you factor in the west Feel coached in fart outshines the East back then. Someone on another forum went in and used analytics to rank the degree of difficulty of title runs and Kobe's far surpassed Jorn's from what I can remember. Since they don't matter let's talk about it:

Jorn couldn't make five consecutive NBA finals in a row.

Don't talk shit about the east being week during Lebron's run and Cuban B that shit Jorn went through. Going into a season we don't know who'll make the finals out of the east whereas Jorn was a conistent (after the bad boys and Celts fell off) basic lock to leave the east.

In the interest of full disclosure Bron would be heading for five right now if his past teams performed up to the bar they set during the regular season but ignore this section cause we on some agenda shit.

Name another player with less than stellar teammates during asked to shoulder this much of the load during their run. If Bron gets one ring here he's better than Jorn off the strength of this accomplishment. It's not the #BronCurve, it's the #properperspective.

  

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ThaTruth
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223. "6 rings as the leading scorer >>>> as the 5th or 6th best scorer on your..."
In response to Reply # 222


          

own damn team

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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Mon Jun-08-15 09:22 PM

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224. "LOL, he was their best player so cut the bullshit"
In response to Reply # 223


  

          

Ask anyone on those teams or their staffs or the opposing teams or anyone with any damn sense. Russ was their leader and their top player.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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ThaTruth
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226. "He was their best defensive player but far from the best scorer and its...."
In response to Reply # 224


          

not like those teams were defensive juggernauts in those days, lol

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pretentious username
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Mon Jun-08-15 10:18 PM

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228. "Lol, he didn't get 4 MVPs for no reason."
In response to Reply # 226


  

          

  

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ThaTruth
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229. "Russell shot 43% in the playoffs in the post"
In response to Reply # 228


          

________________________________________
Watch For The Hook
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy9Fun9CuZ4

  

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pretentious username
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230. "you can't peddle #RingsMatter as the be all end all"
In response to Reply # 229


  

          

and then when it doesn't fit your narrative you make up every reason to discredit that guy. either rings are the be all end all or there's more to the discussion than that. can't have it both ways.

  

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ThaTruth
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231. "of course there's context involved or else Robert Horry would be in the...."
In response to Reply # 230


          

GOAT convo.

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pretentious username
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232. "so then, by extension"
In response to Reply # 231


  

          

there could be a situation in which a player, whether its Bron or someone else, gets 4-5 rings but surpasses MJ because of other accomplishments. Likely? maybe not, but possible.

  

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ThaTruth
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233. "lol, let him get THREE first..."
In response to Reply # 232


          

>there could be a situation in which a player, whether its
>Bron or someone else, gets 4-5 rings but surpasses MJ because
>of other accomplishments. Likely? maybe not, but possible.

________________________________________
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pretentious username
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234. "YOU made the post saying he HAD to get to 6"
In response to Reply # 233


  

          

that's what I was addressing. notice I didn't predict anything, and I also said Bron or another player. It was a hypothetical situation. A pretty clear one at that.

  

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ConcreteCharlie
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238. "he was their best all-around player and their leader, period"
In response to Reply # 226


  

          

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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Kira
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227. "I can't hear you over all these rings..."
In response to Reply # 223


  

          

...

Russell has to fists full of rings and will hit you with the one hitter quitter using his the two rings on his middle finger.

Only someone on some agenda shit downplays 11 rings.

11>>6

5 is closer to 6 than 6 is to 11. Jordan should've dominated more but we saw what happened when he ran up agains the OGs...

  

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ThaTruth
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Wed Jun-10-15 01:33 PM

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235. "Lebron is finally doing what he should have done in Cleveland the first...."
In response to Reply # 0


          

time around. This current team is no better than he had then.

The Lebron stans want to have it both ways, now they screaming "he's doing all this without is 2nd, 3rd, 4th, or 5th option" then they switch and try to say how much better they are than the teams Lebron won 66 and 61 games with.

The problem with Lebron is people wanted to crown him before he was ready.

People like Magic, Bird, Kobe and Duncan were lucky enough to land on a team that was ready to win right away.

Jordan wasn't that fortunate, people doubted him and said he'd never win a title because he scored too much. Jordan kept grinding, his team drafted him some help, Jordan waited on that help to develop and helped with their development.

Bron wasn't ready so he took the easy route and bounced to Miami and got a couple of cheap rings.

Now that he's finally becoming the player he should've been all along people are trying to elevate him to GOAT status.

Jordan had his first 3 titles by age 30 and Lebron has a chance do the same. Even though Lebron has a lot more NBA mileage on his he's still on the right trajectory.

But this continuous #BronCurve logic foolish where Lebron's rings somehow could double is ridiculous.

________________________________________
Watch For The Hook
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy9Fun9CuZ4

  

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Vex_id
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Wed Jun-10-15 01:42 PM

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236. "So hurt. Everybody in the world now agrees. Consensus: Bron is top 5"
In response to Reply # 235


          

and will be top 3 within a year.

Top 2 within 2-3 years.

Knocking on MJ's door within 5 years.

Well hey, at least Kobe is considered top 15/10.

-->

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
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Wed Jun-10-15 01:48 PM

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237. "so you're conceding after game 3? noted"
In response to Reply # 235


  

          

just as foolish as surrending with games to play

stand your ground fam.

#fg%matters

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pretentious username
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239. "he was younger and less of a leader back then. just stop."
In response to Reply # 235


  

          

actually continue. watching you descend into madness is very entertaining.

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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240. "Man if this is what he's SUPPOSED to do then he is already the damn GOAT"
In response to Reply # 235
Wed Jun-10-15 01:57 PM by ConcreteCharlie

  

          

No player besides Wilt carried that kind of expectation.

Personally I don't agree that this is what he was supposed to do then or now, or that he's the best ever yet. But if those are the expectations then at a minimum he is the most talented player ever, if not the best ever, because carrying this kind of weight is unprecedented.

Also I think people continue to sleep on just how rotten that 07 roster was. They had better teams later that lost in the second round.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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Oak27
Member since Apr 17th 2005
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Wed Jun-10-15 02:00 PM

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241. "lol"
In response to Reply # 235


          

  

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Dr Claw
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Wed Jun-10-15 02:11 PM

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242. "Lock Post, Archive."
In response to Reply # 235
Wed Jun-10-15 02:12 PM by Dr Claw

  

          

>The problem with Lebron is people wanted to crown him before
>he was ready.
>
>People like Magic, Bird, Kobe and Duncan were lucky enough to
>land on a team that was ready to win right away.


and note, this is coming from a Laker fan.

But this is exactly it. They crowned LeBron before he actually ascended to the throne.

I do think all the celebration and agenda concessions are a little premature, as there are at most 4 more games to play left in the series, and the Cavs have to win 2 of them.

But even from an OKS perspective, a Cavs win these Finals isn't just one of the greatest stories of all time, but LeBron might actually hold off Agendageddon with one move.

Yes, I'm mad. Let's move on.

Jays | Cavs | Eagles | Sabres | Tarheels

PSN: Dr_Claw_77 | XBL: Dr Claw 077 | FB: drclaw077 | T: @drclaw77 | http://thepeoplesvault.wordpress.com

  

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ThaTruth
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243. "^^^only sensible person here and the only real Cleveland fan"
In response to Reply # 242


          

________________________________________
Watch For The Hook
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy9Fun9CuZ4

  

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RexLongfellow
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Tue Jun-16-15 11:15 PM

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244. "^"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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