Ok I see I need to have a little come to Jesus talk with some folks around here.

Let's start off with a little history lesson...

Let's go for a ride OKS. Come with good ol' Uncle Truth as we take a trip down to West Monroe, Louisiana. There in 1934 Charles and Katie Russell had a son and named him William Felton Russell. The younger Russell, who would later be known as Bill, grew up to become a great basketball player winning 11 NBA championships and a was awarded a Presidential Medal of Freedom, the only NBA player to ever receive that award.

A couple of years later in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, William Chamberlain and Olivia Ruth Johnson had a son and named him Wilton Norman Chamberlain. "Wilt", as he was called, grew up to become an outstanding basketball player as well and set statistical records that had never been achieved before and haven't been matched since.

However, as great as Chamberlain was individually, he only won 2 NBA titles in 5 trips to the Finals and Russell was considered to be the better winner and better player by most accounts. #RingsMatter

Then there would be another great player to come along by the name of Julius Winfield Erving II from Long Island, New York. His high-flying, slam-dunking style would take the game to a new level. Additionally Erving was also an oustanding defender, rebounder, passer and ballhandler at the forward position.

Erving went to the NBA Finals 4 times in 7 years but only won title. In 4 of those seasons in the Eastern Conference Finals Erving faced the Boston Celtics led by Larry Joe Bird from French Lick, Indiana and they split those series 2-2. During that same time-frame Bird went on to win 3 championships and is almost universally considered to be the superior player even though for anyone that actually watched them play it was nowhere near that clear cut. #RingsMatter

Once Bird got past Erving in the Eastern conference he had another nemesis usually waiting for him, a fella named Ervin Johnson Jr. from Lansing, Michigan. They called him Magic. Bird and Magic played each other in the Finals 3 times in 4 years and Magic's Lakers won 2 of the 3. Overall Magic won 5 titles in 9 trips to the Finals and despite Larry Bird's greatness winning league MVP for 3 consecutive seasons(the last player to do so) Larry only won 3 titles in 5 Finals appearances so in the NBA hierarchy most people have Magic ranked higher. #RingsMatter
(sidenote: I've never heard anyone discount Magic or Larry's titles when they didn't win Finals MVP)

And then He came. To James Jordan Sr. and his wife Deloris and child was born in Brroklyn, New York. They named him Michael Jeffrey Jordan and wrapped him in swaddling clothes and laid him in a manger. Michael would grow up to be a great basketball player as well. Michael's dominance in the NBA was evident from day one but some said while he was a great individual player he would never win a title. Jordan would eventually silence those critics and win 6 titles in six trips to the Finals and be considered as the Greatest of All-Time. #RingsMatter

And I could go on...

Why is Olajuwon considered head and shoulders over contemporaries like Robinson and Ewing? #RingsMatter

Why is Duncan universally considered the greatest power forward of all time over people like 2nd all-time leading scorer Karl Malone and Charles Barkley? #RingsMatter

Why is Isiah Thomas considered better than all-time assists and steals leader John Stockton? #RingsMatter

Why is 2-time league MVP Steve Nash considered inferior to those two who never won MVP? #RingsMatter

Now we have our current hero. On December 30, 1984 in Akron, Ohio a 16-year-old Gloria Marie James gave birth to a bouncing baby boy and named him Lebron Raymone James.

"King James" as he is know IS the greatest basketball player in the world RIGHT TODAY(c)wc.

But that's not good enough for some people. They want to push him higher. They want to elevate him and push him past certain folks. Some event want to put him on the same level as the GOAT himself, Michael Jeffery Jordan.

They want to totally dismiss that other guy. You know who. Joe and Pam's son Kobe Bean Bryant.

He came in and snatched 3 rings almost right out the gate. But that didn't count. He was a "sidekick". He just rode Shaq's coattails. It's not like he wasn't out there at 21 years-old averaging 21ppg and leading the team in assists and steals en route to the Lakers first title in over a decade. It wasn't like they didn't run it back the next year with Kobe scoring the same about of points as Shaq and still leading the team in assists sweeping the first 3 rounds of the playoffs with Kobe dropping ALL of his nuts in the Spurs mouths culminating with them dominated the Sixers who had the league's best record. I mean that was Shaq chasing MVP Allen Iverson around on the perimeter and forcing him to shoot only 40%. Its not like they didn't 3-peat, the only team to do so since Jordan's Bulls. Something no other "great teams" have been able to accomplish in recent times like San Antonio or Miami.

But then Shaq left, folks said Kobe would never win another title. But he sneaked back in and snatched two more rings out of the cookie jar and all of a sudden motherfuckers got scared. They wanted to change the rules. All of sudden #Rings don't matter as much.

Now they wanna hype "finals appearances", it doesn't matter if you won or not as long as you participated, lol.

Is that where we really are now?

The reality is Lebron SHOULD BE going for at least his sixth title now.

He should have won at least one in Cleveland before. That 08-09 team good enough to win 66 regular season games, sweep the Pistons and the Hawks in the first 2 rounds, but couldn't get past an Orlando team lead by Dwight Howard and Hedo Turkoglu? How silly does that even sound? lol. Was that Cleveland team THAT much worse than the guys Lebron is playing with now?

And then he took his talents to South Beach. What did he say? "Not 2, not 3, not 4, not 5, not 6, not 7". That first year after and few early struggles but then they got on a roll. They finished the season strong and rolled through the first 3 rounds of the playoffs dropping only one game in each series.

Then it happened. I know Lebron fans like to Cuban B(c) the shit but the 2011 NBA Finals actually happened. Yes, it did. Your boy nutted up in a major and almost inexplicable way. I don't know if he was really that intimidated by Shawn Marion and DeShawn Stevenson or if Gloria was in big to the mob for gambling debts and he was forced to throw the series to save her life but he had probably one of the worst and most bizarre performances by a star player in NBA Finals history that no one can really explain to this day.

The next year he finally got over the hump. It took Wade breaking Rondo's arm in the conference finals and they were able to dominate a super young OKC team but Lebron FINALLY got that first ring.

He got another the next year. The Pacers stretched Miami to the max and they were basically a lucky bounce from losing to the Spurs in the finals but in the end it doesn't matter and Lebron is a two-time champion.

The next season they rolled through the first 3 rounds but the Spurs had their number and wiped the floor with them pretty easily.

Then all of a sudden Lebron didn't have enough "help" again and ran back to Cleveland.

Now he's back in the Finals again for the 5th straight year and people are trumpeting that like its a significant accomplishment even though he only has 2 titles to show for including his 2007 finals appearance giving him 6 overall.

But if he can manage to beat Steph and the Warriors in the finals he'll be halfway to basketball immortality. Jordan won 3 of his titles after age 30.

Lebron can do it too but lets not anoint him just yet, let him EARN his place in history like everybody else did. Don't discount it, don't grade him on a curve. He can still do this. The NBA is wide open right now. Durant and OKC was supposed to be "next" team but its not looking like that now. The Warriors are looking strong but its going to take a salary cap genius to keep that team together. Lebron and the Cavs look like they could easily run off a few titles the way they are playing right now.

But for now let's officially dead the #BronCurve and cease the blaspheming of the one true GOAT MJ and let the "King" EARN his crown.

THE DOORS OF THE CHURCH ARE OPEN!!

________________________________________
"Stay out the dark, cause if I catch you when the sun is down..."
https://youtu.be/eaaTxVRG06c?t=89

I got two questions though. I was born in 1988, didn't become an avid basketball fan until 97ish, so maybe an older, wiser gentleman can answer them.

First... why has it taken all this time, up until LeBron James came into the league, for players to have 4 teammates on the court at the same time? I Keep hearing all about how LeBron needed Wade to win his first title, how he needed Ray to win the second, how he needed help to keep getting to Finals after Finals. I'm assuming he's the first person to play with teammates? Why did nobody ever think of this before? Perhaps Jordan could have won 10+ if he had help, perhaps a guy who could shoot the three or someone who could rebound.

And second... why is 2nd place considered worse than 3rd-30th for LeBron but not for anybody else? Perhaps LeBron would be better off if he only went to the Finals the two years he won and then failed to reach them all the other years? Perhaps he'd be better off not making the playoffs at all. Like lets say the best player on his team, lets say a guy who helped him win consecutive titles and won the Finals MVP all those years, lets say he leaves. It must be better for his legacy to miss the playoffs the following year and not make it out of the first round the next two, right? Again, that's a completely hypothetical situation, because that would never happen to someone who is in consideration for Top 5 all time, we know that for sure.

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand SCENE

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

The Bron fanboys have surpassed the Kobe fanboys.

Jordan fanboys pissed me off but 6 rings have to be respected. Only 7 rings in the modern era will make Jordan take a back seat(w/ Finals MVPs to match).

"hey, make this right mayne
stop at the light mayne,
my yester night thang got me hung off the night train "

Bron already easily top 5 and when it's all said & done - he'll be top 2, period.

Don't matter if he has 3 rings or 5 - it's inevitable.

Be upset.

-->

________________________________________
"Stay out the dark, cause if I catch you when the sun is down..."
https://youtu.be/eaaTxVRG06c?t=89

and genuinely fed him the ball to his desire.

________________________________________
"Stay out the dark, cause if I catch you when the sun is down..."
https://youtu.be/eaaTxVRG06c?t=89

There's not a superstar in NBA history that wouldn't win at least two titles playing with the best players from their draft class. Jordan would have 12 rings playing with the best players from his draft class plus Pippen.

and 2 rings.

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If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

why?

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

else did.

In this microwave, internet society nobody wants to wait for shit.

________________________________________
"Stay out the dark, cause if I catch you when the sun is down..."
https://youtu.be/eaaTxVRG06c?t=89

with an inside track on top 5 or 3 if he wins more rings.

________________________________________
"Stay out the dark, cause if I catch you when the sun is down..."
https://youtu.be/eaaTxVRG06c?t=89

1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Russell
4. Bird
5. Magic
6. Wilt
7. Lebron


8. Oscar
9. Duncan
10 Shaq

tho I have the same exact players in my top 10, just a different order: its MJ, Wilt, Cap, Russell, Magic, Bron, Bird, Oscar Ducan & Shaq for me.

Kobe is at #15 behind Dream, Moses, Baylor & Doc

>1. Jordan
>2. Kareem
>3. Russell
>4. Bird
>5. Magic
>6. Wilt
>7. Lebron
>
>
>8. Oscar
>9. Duncan
>10 Shaq
>
>
>

better than him?

________________________________________
"Stay out the dark, cause if I catch you when the sun is down..."
https://youtu.be/eaaTxVRG06c?t=89

wipe everybody slate clean.

Based on sheer talent & upside alone, name one player on my list Kobe gets drafted over in an expansion draft. I'll wait

Bill Walton? Sam Bowie? Greg Oden? Ralph Sampson? Len Bias? Dajaun Wagner?

c'mon?!

________________________________________
"Stay out the dark, cause if I catch you when the sun is down..."
https://youtu.be/eaaTxVRG06c?t=89

nice diversion tho

today?

Russell play center at 6-10, 215 and barely shoot 40% against 6'7" white dudes, lol

And can you imagine Larry Bird defending wing players today? I couldn't

________________________________________
"Stay out the dark, cause if I catch you when the sun is down..."
https://youtu.be/eaaTxVRG06c?t=89

I ask which era

________________________________________
"Stay out the dark, cause if I catch you when the sun is down..."
https://youtu.be/eaaTxVRG06c?t=89

but yeah, same guys in that 11-15.

exactly where I'm at

passed MJ for #1 all-time +30 +5 and +5 games in the offs

passed Karl Malone on all-time off scoring list (6th I think?)

first player EVER not on the 60s BOS teams to reach 5 straight finals

^^^ this year.

Bron doing historic things is the reason folks are trying to place him in a historical context

he's earned the comparison.

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

you're telling me the great Bill Russell was a fraud and a sidekick and an overhyped Ben Wallace that rode the coattails of his multiple HOF teammates as the to those 11 titles.

If you tell me rings don't matter you have to tell me how Wilt isn't the clear undisputed GOAT.

If you tell me rings don't matter you have to tell me why Oscar Robinson, the only dude to EVER average a triple double for a season doesn't get more love.

If you tell me rings don't matter then you're telling me the only reason people say Bird is better than Doc is because Bird was white.

If you tell me rings don't matter then you have to explain to me how the #2 scorer in NBA history isn't in anybody's top 10.

If you tell me rings don't matter you have to explain to me why Duncan is held in much higher regard than Garnett despite very similar stats and individual awards.

So what are you all telling me?

________________________________________
"Stay out the dark, cause if I catch you when the sun is down..."
https://youtu.be/eaaTxVRG06c?t=89

of course rings matter

and Bron has rings

it's just NOT the end all be all.

this is all viewed through a post MJ perspective

nobody tried to plea cop Magic's greatness

because he lost in the finals

or Bird's

or Dr J's

etc...

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

and i'm not arguing Bron's position here, just saying you always have to look at things in context. otherwise there's no reason to have anyone behind Russell.

Cats want to beat their chest over Internet W's and comparisons..it is what it is. There's so much selective attention and disingenuous banter on every side that it's all pretty much nonsense regardless.

That being said, it's pretty clear Lebron is approaching rarefied air. Along with TD, he's the best overall player and leader that I've seen in my adult years.

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

IDK fam

a whole lotta 'experts' were highly critical of this young man

outside of these boards

there's plenty of Ls to go around.

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

I find it all pretty nonsensical lol

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

He just disguised it with 9786208297496392 words.

He should've just said "rings matter" and more people would've agreed, myself included. Instead, he included foolishness like "Lebron SHOULD have six rings by now!", a surefire signifier that it's one of those classic posts that decries the insanity of agenda flag-planting while also hammering agenda flags endlessly into the soil.

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

>He just disguised it with 9786208297496392 words.
>
>He should've just said "rings matter" and more people would've
>agreed, myself included. Instead, he included foolishness like
>"Lebron SHOULD have six rings by now!", a surefire signifier
>that it's one of those classic posts that decries the insanity
>of agenda flag-planting while also hammering agenda flags
>endlessly into the soil.

He should have more than two if he's the new messiah that folks proclaim him to be.

________________________________________
"Stay out the dark, cause if I catch you when the sun is down..."
https://youtu.be/eaaTxVRG06c?t=89

Cats on here say that shit in a totally different context than what I'm used to

if someone went crazy and put up 45 like Harden did and put the team on his back, then he nutted up

Horford nutted up on Didgeridoova for the dirty shit.

etc.

etc.

a dissertation in hopes of rallying the rest of the flummoxed contingent lol

Ya'll better hope he doesn't pull this off

grassrootsphilosopher

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

>

grassrootsphilosopher

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

If Lebron wins six, or even seven...."yeah, but it took him ten tries in the Finals."

Or, "he only won those last two because he was able to team up with Westbrook/Durant/John Wall" or whoever the next Superstar ends up being that he teams up with.

Hell, he can win 10-12, breaking Russell's record, and some folks will argue..."but he didn't face the same competition as Russell, the NBA is much softer now!" "He won them ALL on the East, so he had less competition, and the West teams were always tired by the time he got there!"

Basically, the great thing about Sports debates is that NOTHING can easily quantify who's the best. There's always someone ready to make an argument against whatever case you submit, regardless how stupid it sounds.

------------------------------

50+ FREE Mixes on www.DJR-Tistic.com!

Twitter and Instagram - @DJ_RTistic

________________________________________
"Stay out the dark, cause if I catch you when the sun is down..."
https://youtu.be/eaaTxVRG06c?t=89

i aint reading that dissertation but i did catch a sentence about most people thinking russell was better than wilt. seems like unsubstantiated conjecture regarding one of the most polarizing, heated and complex debates in sports history. i really don't care about the rest of this shit. your boy(s) lost. deal with it. bron better than kobe and he's coming for shaq in an instant.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

________________________________________
"Stay out the dark, cause if I catch you when the sun is down..."
https://youtu.be/eaaTxVRG06c?t=89

>your boy(s)
>lost. deal with it.

And my boy WON. 5 times.

#RingsMatter

________________________________________
"Stay out the dark, cause if I catch you when the sun is down..."
https://youtu.be/eaaTxVRG06c?t=89

If not then #RingsArentEverything

Let's also not ignore that LeBron is 30 and Kobe is dead.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

________________________________________
"Stay out the dark, cause if I catch you when the sun is down..."
https://youtu.be/eaaTxVRG06c?t=89

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

Niggas grading Lebron on that grade inflation

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

I didn't read any of it, but I'm sure others did and gained valuable insight about your relationship with LeBron James from it.

Clearly these feelings are important to you, and I am thrilled that you expressed them.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

>I didn't read any of it, but I'm sure others did and gained
>valuable insight about your relationship with LeBron James
>from it.


I mean really, credit to him for summing up his point in the subject line very well. He just didn't realize it.