Let's get something out the way, for the folks who might want to claim that the song is not a flop. Beyonce's competition is pop star females. The lead singles from the most recent albums from Ke$ha, Britney Spears, and Lady GaGa all debuted at #1 on the pop charts based on massive sales and airplay in their first weeks of release.

"Run the World (Girls)" debuted at #33. Then it fell out the iTunes top-100 sellers 2 weeks later. Last week the song was #76 in its fourth week of release. Of course, now she's released a video and is making a HEAVY promotional push, and the song is back up to #50. From what I can tell, it's been hanging out in the top-20 sellers on iTunes this week, so now it may go even higher. Perhaps even surpass its debut peak.

If it does -- or if it manages to go even higher -- why did it take all that? Yes, we can boil it down to "the song is wack" -- it is -- but obviously in the current music landscape that's a woefully inadequate explanation. So let me offer a pair of explanations:

(1) The leak of the song actually WAS unintentional, and it ruined the set-up for the single. The song's accompanying video was meant to be an event along the lines of what we used to get in the 1990's. If she had been able to debut the song and video simultaneously, the hype machine that kicked it presumably would've been able to push a lackluster single into the stratosphere. BIG VIDEO! STUNNING SONG! WHO RUNS THE WORLD? BEYONCE! Absent that pre-meditated push, people heard the new single and were like "...eh."

(2) Tastemakers' expectations were not met AT ALL. One of the things I'll always remember about the set-up for "Crazy in Love" and the Dangerously in Love album was reading her saying, "The new single is gonna have a hard beat, harder than most rappers." Or something to that effect. I was incredulous. Then I heard the single and it matched expectations.

This single was preceded by the buzz that it was produced by Diplo. Oh, he of M.I.A. and Santigold? The guy who just gave Chris Brown "Look At Me Now"? Oh that's gonna be HEAT, right? And then it turns out that, nope, it's the other half of Major Lazer who got a production credit. Oh, and it's not an original beat, it's a sample of Major Lazer's, um, major hit. Tastemakers already knew "Pon De River" and were annoyed. So the radio stations, the clubs, etc., were quite cold to the song. They might talk it up....but they weren't gonna play it.

So yea....um....I made this post cuz it would've gotten buried in the similarly named post in GD. Plus I'm curious about you guys' pushback against these notions.

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Average blacks weren't impressed
Boho's weren't impressed
And Tween's weren't impressed

Personally I blame using the Major Lazer beat. That shit was run to def when it dropped, so that even the audience that had never 'heard' it probably heard it and didn't like it then.
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i felt like it was extremely lazy

>Personally I blame using the Major Lazer beat. That shit was
>run to def when it dropped, so that even the audience that had
>never 'heard' it probably heard it and didn't like it then.

i mean you can at least bring out something new for a Beyonce single

her name is BEYONCE, and she's BLACK. stereogum posted her song today. check it out, it's wicked rad! *slams a pabst blue ribbon ironically while twirling ironic handlebar mustache*

lol

>(1) The leak of the song actually WAS unintentional, and it
>ruined the set-up for the single. The song's accompanying
>video was meant to be an event along the lines of what we used
>to get in the 1990's. If she had been able to debut the song
>and video simultaneously, the hype machine that kicked it
>presumably would've been able to push a lackluster single into
>the stratosphere. BIG VIDEO! STUNNING SONG! WHO RUNS THE
>WORLD? BEYONCE! Absent that pre-meditated push, people heard
>the new single and were like "...eh."

That song had to stand on it's own merit... well other than the fact B had her name on it. Just think if it were a track by a lesser name... this whole thing is an interesting case study on what actually makes a song a hit.

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That will double as my response to the question, and an underlining of the aspect of this that interests me most.

Seriously, I know it's called the music business, but aren't we here mostly to talk about the music rather than the business? Outside of the song's obvious wackness, I don't really care that much whether or why it flopped.

--

>Seriously, I know it's called the music business, but aren't
>we here mostly to talk about the music rather than the
>business?

i think i've been one of the more egregious chart-watching posters in the lesson, and once even put a self-imposed moratorium on making any billboard-related posts. but the simple fact is: people want to discuss the music AND the business.

and this post is as much about taste-making as it is about business per se. moreso, even.

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I think I'm just having an allergic reaction to it lately. I don't mind the biz talk on its own, I just kinda hate the way the two cross-pollinate, and people will act like sales figures are a trump card in a music talk: "Oh, you like so-and-so? You realize that album of his only went wood, right? GUFFAW!" It's very grating.

--

it strengthens the argument she's no fucking MJ other than marlon(c) maxxx
that song isn't swallowing radio
talked about by everyone, even if michelle obama is promoing
its not even on 'bad' or 'black or white' level
sony is trying, but she's at her strength talking like she's from houston (single ladies, bills bills, etc)

two bullets: Single Ladies and Crazy in Love

a few generic songs that are beneath her potential: Halo, Irreplaceable, Ring the Alarm

straight up trash that leaves me puzzled: Get Me Bodied and Run the World


I mean I've never picked up a Beyonce album, but if that's the singles then I can't imagine the full body of work is any more consistent and original. Nonetheless, she's easily the best performer in modern popular music today.

as simple as it may sound, i think the public was not fooled this time. kudos to the lemmings.

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103,000 likes and 52,000 dislikes. For an artist as big and generally well-liked as Beyonce, that says it all. People just don't like the song. "Single Ladies" is like 55,000 likes to 3,000 dislikes.

--

Absolutely no tune there...maybe that's why people don't like it. Nothing to hum along to. The message is pretty half-baked too....unimaginative and uninspired.

Personally, I think the production is pretty cool. It's all bells and whistles and flourishes....but there's some cool technique there....the drumming is pretty dope too. The mix is absolutely POUNDING too.

Who produced this again? There's some explanation above but I'm confused....

just don't like it. For some reason I like it, and I'm a straight guy lol...

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Which is weird, b/c the buzz going into this album was that she was working with Diplo, who just produced "Look At Me Now" for Chris Brown.

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Diplo+Switch= Major Lazer. That beat is almost 2 years old off the first Major Lazer album.

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the beyonce song was produced by switch, as opposed to chris brown's song, which was produced by diplo. it's the difference between having chad hugo & pharrell (individuallly) produce your song, i guess. one got the spark & the other don't.

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'Judas' didn't flop like 'Girls', but it did kinda flop. and it seems Gagz/Interscope is backing off its promotion to push 'Edge of Glory'. and that's a great idea b/c 'Edge of Glory' is much better song and i expect it will be much better received. even the few hardcore Gagz fans i know were a bit 'meh' about 'Judas'. they'd gone nuts for 'Born This Way' and are going nuts for 'Glory'.

anyway, if Yonce has a hot one in the chamber she needs to pull it. soon. she should cut her 'losses' on 'Girls'.

fuck you.

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=5&topic_id=2539372&mesg_id=2539372&listing_type=search

And I'm kinda proud of the public at large for not falling for this shit

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And by that I mean, cat's are feelin' the euro-esque dance beats right now. Bey took a gamble in trying to change the stat quo. I give her mad dap for that. But she did it with a busted track. I don't see chicks wantin' to hear it when I spin it. And I gotta say the same thing with Gage though. Those songs might chart higher. But when I play, "Born This Way" came out lifeless, and "Judas" requests were non-existent. Shit bitches are vibin' to? That JLo/Pitbull track, the Britney "World Ends" remix, and anything Ke$hia.

I also think there might be a sociological aspect to it. Where chicks don't give a fuck about "uplifting anthems" and are more looking to dance mindlessly in their stockings ripped up the side, rockin' their Jesus neck-le-ss...

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i mean, this is beyonce, one of the the biggest popstars around, and the best she can do is a pointless vocal of a beat thats been around for about 2 years???? bad move.

Personally that's really the only that really matters in today's pop market, why she (or her handlers) decided to take that beat is beyond me. If they did this song a year or so ago they could have gotten away with it but now it justs seems like her trying too hard to chase cool. But I'm sure everyone will question whether she's fallen off until a single or 2 down the road and she'll be back on top.

Beyonce's uptempo hits are extremely energetic and fun. They're Bar Mitzvah Bangers. "Run The World" sounds overwhelms anyone in earshot with its abrasiveness and nervous energy. It's not warm or inviting. It's the anti-Beyonce.

Clearly, she needs to stop listening to Solange.

>Clearly, she needs to stop listening to Solange.

1. Beyonce vocals x many
2. Major Lazer sample
3. some other sonic squiggles and farts
4. military-style beat

There isn't much of a "tune" there, so Beyonce (or her producers) have to create a vocal melody out of seemingly nothing. Try crafting a great melody to go over some half-assed dissonance.

If you want to talk about the lyrics, well it's just a carbon copy of ideas from other songs that were more successful. The continued theme of female empowerment. "Independent Woman", "Survivor" off the top of my head. How many times can she go there without it seeming gimmicky to the casual listener?

You know what would have made the song more fun, if only for me and others of a similar bent, is if the "Pon De Floor" thing had been replaced by the sounds at the beginning of Devo's "Jocko Homo" video. Listen to what I mean, the first 25 seconds...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCpxSzacbyc

That might be stupid but would it make "Run The World" any worse?

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>There isn't much of a "tune" there, so Beyonce (or her
>producers) have to create a vocal melody out of seemingly
>nothing.

nothing new there

i kinda like the song btw, but i agree with most of what you said... still, for her to do something "anti-beyonce" other than treading those tired lyrical tropes is pretty cool to me, even if it was unintentional

>You know what would have made the song more fun, if only for
>me and others of a similar bent, is if the "Pon De Floor"
>thing had been replaced by the sounds at the beginning of
>Devo's "Jocko Homo" video. Listen to what I mean, the first 25
>seconds...
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCpxSzacbyc

and at 00:51

A remix is in order.

are the a cappella and a better quality video out there?

--------------

I don't care if it was a new beat.... it doesn't fit.

One thing I know about the industry is you don't get married!!!

Christina, Usher, JLo, Mariah, Britney, Madonna... when did they fall off? Right after they got the ring.

chasing the edgy hip producers and not making producers famous. Reminds of 90's MJ in that sense.

I also think she is trying to get hipster cred. It's clearly important to her camel faced husband.

IMO things changed when she did the video with Gaga. Her usual tactic of doing a song and video with a potential rival to make herself look like she's putting them on, didn't work that time.

That video was more Gaga-esque than anything and Gaga only got bigger after. Beyonce let Gaga dictate the image and I think it was a shift from how she's historically portrayed herself.

now she's trying to capture the attention of the pop world (and get hipster cred) from Gaga, Ke$ha, Britney and Rihanna. She lowered herself to their level and now has to compensate.

This reminds me of when Janet went full sex kitten, total shift from Control and RN1814 Janet. I still don't know why she did it because the competition didn't demand itr and neither did her fanbase. I've always believed that led to her pop demise.

>This reminds me of when Janet went full sex kitten, total
>shift from Control and RN1814 Janet. I still don't know why
>she did it because the competition didn't demand itr and
>neither did her fanbase. I've always believed that led to her
>pop demise.

um, you just skipped completely over the critically & commercially successful janet. album.

Go Smack yourself and then apologize to your hand for looking stupid - Case_One

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>>This reminds me of when Janet went full sex kitten, total
>>shift from Control and RN1814 Janet. I still don't know why
>>she did it because the competition didn't demand itr and
>>neither did her fanbase. I've always believed that led to
>her
>>pop demise.
>
>um, you just skipped completely over the critically &
>commercially successful janet. album.


I think the Janet album was the compromise between the two versions of her.

Relatively speaking of course...I don't know the exact figures, but generally I thought her singles never really were as huge as some of her female pop vocalist peers/competition...Rihanna I know has more #1 hits than Bey, despite not really being on her level as a force or icon or what have you..At her core Beyonce is still essentially an urban act whose appeal reaches over into the top 40 market, which kind of puts her at a disadvantage in the context of Top 100 Billboard hits against the Britneys and Kesha's of the world

that style of music isn't the type you can keep doing the same thing with and not expect people to eventually reject.

same song style...same video style....same performance sytle.... When you do that with that Plastic-Pop-so-called-R&B type of music that is her forte....eventually it gets to the point where people aren't excited about you or that music anymore...

Besides the song being “Meh”, I think people really are starting to tire of her. It’s been said numerous times in the past, and she’s disproved it, but I think we may be truly coming to that point.

Even with the two new singles (End of Time, 1+1) getting much better praise than RTW(G), I’m still detecting an underlying feeling of growing nonchalance. There are a lot of “She needs a break” and “Go have some babies”, floating around.

She’s had such a constant media presence, major forcefeeding with little let up. At times she's like a tsunami, submerging and drowning everything in her path.

So even if she’d released a better quality song, there’d still be some type of backlash. Perhaps not to this current level, but eventually someone would be giving her the tap on the shoulder and a soft “Okay, That’s Enough, Bey...Let’s get you a cab.”

been around nearly two decades and she still doing broke Target meets Sesame street jingles passing them off as Anthems and no Turkey over 16 is trying to hear that mess over and over and over again from her.

whenever she does a real song watch out, but i've been saying that for how many years now? she is going to be 80 still starting out her shows with crazy in love and then some wack song that is passed off as her new song is next.

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

>and no Turkey over 16 is trying to hear that mess over and
>over and over again from her.

I was looking forward to a NEW high-profile collaboration with Diplo/Switch, and got a Major Lazer track from 2 years ago.

They simply were too lazy in creating a song. I think they were trying to make a nod to the kind of people who liked "Pon De Floor" but those people already heard the song. It wasn't even like "oh shit, hear how she flipped that?" IMO, the Major Lazer track had limited appeal to begin with.

Unlike "On The Floor" by J.Lo - whether you think this song's production is cheesy or not, that hook is huge. That's why the "Euro" sound is popular.. melody.

I'm glad Beyonce tried to throw a curveball with production style but the beat was not original and no tune was really added.

And the video was late.

imagine if a dude made 1000 songs praising dudes/hating on females lol

people would be saying all type of shit

its not the same at all.

thats like some bill o'reilly shit when Fox news tried to attack a boxer who had Brown Pride tatted on his chest saying if a white guy had a tat that said White Pride it'd be a problem.

no shit sherlock! its called social context!

IMO Beyonce is not making music for the black audience anymore.

or because Black people don't like electronic music?

or because she, as a Black woman, shouldn't make music that speaks to females without a strong melodic core and R&B aesthetics?

gtfohwtbs

Let's get something straight I don't subscribe to political correctness. Beyonce can make music for whoever she wants and if you are trying to make a lot of money you can't depend on one segment of the population to buy records.

My comment about Beyonce can apply to Kanye, Rihanna and a host of others. All of the major acts are making records for the gay crowd and those under 25. It is just a fact ain't no hate going on here.

audience groups?

keep talkin'

by the way my initial comment was half snark & not meant to be taken 100% super literal. Sigh

nm

I WAS TALKING ABOUT THE SONG BRAINIAC

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I don't think the song is an ACTUAL, REAL lesbian anthem. That was what you would call a deliberate exaggeration, or sarcasm.

Example: "It's so hot I feel like I'm burning up."

THE PERSON ISN'T ACTUALLY GOING TO "BURN UP". HE/SHE knows that would be impossible. Unless they are a dumbfuck and actually are fearing being burnt to ashes.

2. A person who is a lesbian CAN marry a man if she wishes. It's possible.

EXTRA: A person who is not a lesbian could in fact make a lesbian anthem if he/she wishes. It's possible.

Being that as far as we know Beyonce is not a lesbian...someone saying a song of hers is a lesbian anthem would have to be a JOKE or SARCASM. Or if I were to say "Peabody is the fucking biggest idiot in the world" I'd have no way to prove that to be a fact because I haven't met everyone in the world. That would just be my OPINION. Idiot.

>I don't think the song is an ACTUAL, REAL lesbian anthem.
>That was what you would call a deliberate exaggeration, or
>sarcasm.
There is commentary all over the internet about lesbian propaganda in Beyonce's music.

The whole thing is hilarious.

It is ridiculous to me that women(straight or gay) can find inspiration in her music. Beyonce is a grown up Cheetah girl,

Girl Power!
Folks never get tired of this flavor of koolaid.

Damn....y'all nigs going in....lol

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

She don't know if she wanna be MJ or Diana..two totally different lanes and she don't know how to navigate it.

She's not authentic when it comes to music and it's starting to show. Also she needs to axe Dream and Sean Garrett from her producer roster..they are just 2 dudes who can't successfully navigate their own careers so they make half ass tracks for other artists.

She's an empty vessel that doesn't have a diverse background in music and I would even look past that at least if she tried to get people around her who know different genres and sounds and teach her and help her music to grow. Her sister TRIES but even she comes off as a poser but she lacks Beyonce's stage prescence, voice and appeal. She's basically Whitney Houston without great songs, the machine caters to her only difference is she swears up and down she's hands on in her music and incorporates "different" sounds and elements when all she does is cut the checks to fund someone else's out of touch and wack ass vision.

But at the end of the day her drive outweighs her shortcomings and that's why she's where she's at today.

I want to talk to Jesus, my mama, and Marvin Gaye when I get to heaven.

>She's not authentic when it comes to music and it's starting
>to show.
>
>She's an empty vessel that doesn't have a diverse background
>in music and I would even look past that at least if she tried
>to get people around her who know different genres and sounds
>and teach her and help her music to grow. Her sister TRIES but
>even she comes off as a poser but she lacks Beyonce's stage
>prescence, voice and appeal. She's basically Whitney Houston
>without great songs, the machine caters to her only difference
>is she swears up and down she's hands on in her music and
>incorporates "different" sounds and elements when all she does
>is cut the checks to fund someone else's out of touch and wack
>ass vision.
>
>But at the end of the day her drive outweighs her shortcomings
>and that's why she's where she's at today.

all i can say is daamn...daaamn...daaaamn...jaames

Dream has a successful solo career, and an incredibly successful production career...and is half the reason expectations for the 'yonce were so high for this album...considering he produced Single Ladies...

>
>
>Damn....y'all nigs going in....lol


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He was cultivating a fine nigga farm (c)Goldmind.

I think people are overlooking one important thing....Whether or not "Run The World" sucks (yes, it does...No doubt about it) is moot...Whether or not folks here think the Yonce makes vapid music or is devoid of innovation means very little at this point in her career...

The underlining appeal to Beyonce is she fills the void of the "hardworking entertainer"....She's a throwback to a time when artists actually left it all out on the stage....And the kicker? She happens to be in the right era where putting on a "performance" means singing/lipsynching to guide tracks and doing the two step/or busting out a few choreographed steps but let your back-up dancers do the heavy lifting/or having a weak ass voice devoid of soul because pop music TODAY is not sold with church girl swag.....In this regard, Beyonce is killing her "peers"

Who are her rivals? The likes of Rihanna? A has-been like Ciara? There's simply no comp.....And yeah, that has helped Yonce's career immensely...She's on some Larry Holmes shit...

And still, Beyonce is bullet proof in terms of criticism because she is on that Judy Garland "show must go on" steez...The public eats that shit up...She's more Tina Turner than Diana Ross or Janet....It's tough to totally dismiss someone when they give off the energy that they would/could die performing onstage just to please their fans...

I have never brought a Beyonce album in my life...I have a few songs here and there....And I think she is overrated in terms of her followers constantly boosting her up to MJ levels...

But that chick can put on a show...And in this day in age of microwave showmanship, Beyonce comes off looking like a revelation to kids who didn't grow up with JB, Tina, MJ, or Prince...

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

>Who are her rivals?

gaga is shitting on her right now as far as "innovation" "hip factor" "artistic integrity"...and ultimately "popularity"...B recognizes this and is trying to chase...when instead she should be zigging when everyone else is zagging since shes a market leader...if everyone is gonna do the euro/techno/world music trend...she should come back home and solidify her r&b base/roots...lord knows the genre could use some help right now...since every female wants to be weird and "unique" in their style/presentation choices in this post-gaga world...then beyonce should bring it back home and be that straight up traditional straight forward pretty girl/sex symbol with a dash of ethnicity thrown up in there

i think beyonces people saw usher struggling and gasping for air when he dropped his last album until OMG hit...and i think they got scared and wanted to avoid being too r&b and too black so they came up with pon de floor part two...but they need to forget chasing hipster cred because shes too popular to ever get that now...and they need to try again if they wanna get a piece of the fist pump oontz oontz crowd

having said all this i have a feeling that beyonce is sitting on some heat on this album...i only like 1 out of the 3 songs ive heard so far...but i have this weird feeling that shes really gonna be taking some genre-blending risks on this album that might work out

(Since you brought up Gaga) All these chicks see the outcome of Madonna but DON'T grasp that Madonna kept people around her who were tastemakers and she built on that.

Gaga gets away with it because whoever just runs tapes of Madonna's career and calls it a day. This is where Beyonce fails, she's had the same inner circle of creative people for the last 15 yrs.

I just find it very strange that Gaga is the standard when the blueprint aka Madonna has been there for 25 yrs and no one saw anything to rise to or above until this 25 yr old chick came along. This convo needs to ascend past Beyonce at this point because she really is just a pawn when it comes to the music industry. She doesn't truly produce her own music and rarely writes the singles released to the public so with that being said this generation doesn't have the Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis' sitting behind the boards actually crafting songs and an understanding of composing beyond copy & paste into software.

At least in the 80s in all pop's glory (or gradual downfall depending on who you talk to) the machine had its shit TOGETHER from the artist to the producers chosen to work the project, today ain't fucking with yesterday in this climate.

I want to talk to Jesus, my mama, and Marvin Gaye when I get to heaven.

>>Who are her rivals?
>
>gaga is shitting on her right now as far as "innovation" "hip
>factor" "artistic integrity"...and ultimately "popularity"...B
>recognizes this and is trying to chase...when instead she
>should be zigging when everyone else is zagging since shes a
>market leader...if everyone is gonna do the euro/techno/world
>music trend...she should come back home and solidify her r&b
>base/roots...lord knows the genre could use some help right
>now...since every female wants to be weird and "unique" in
>their style/presentation choices in this post-gaga
>world...then beyonce should bring it back home and be that
>straight up traditional straight forward pretty girl/sex
>symbol with a dash of ethnicity thrown up in there
>
>i think beyonces people saw usher struggling and gasping for
>air when he dropped his last album until OMG hit...and i think
>they got scared and wanted to avoid being too r&b and too
>black so they came up with pon de floor part two...but they
>need to forget chasing hipster cred because shes too popular
>to ever get that now...and they need to try again if they
>wanna get a piece of the fist pump oontz oontz crowd

The flawed thinking is that Beyonce was ever a "leader" in terms of setting trends...She's a ride til I die "entertainer"...That will never become played out....Hipsters come and go...Beyonce will be getting her Tina Turner on...I see Gaga slowing down after this album because her whole thing is playing the shock factor...And it's tough having to out-shock your last effort...

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

Which is working for her now but for how long can it last? She's already repeating herself (Judas/Bad Romance) and there's only so many Madonna songs to borrow from. Don't know if she'll become smart and drop that aspect or beat a dead horse into the ground like Marilyn Manson.

...i think gaga will tone down the weirdness as her career goes on because she actually has talent behind all that...plus as she gets older she can play the "i'm maturing" card...beyonce doesn't really have any cult of personality cards to play because she took the michael jordan route...so her longevity will always be based strictly on ability to produce hits + industry machine backing...she doesnt have many wildcards to play without it coming off as being contrived

She's reached where Madonna was in the 90's, so now whenever she tries something ppl will attack her but really she'll keep going b/c she can't be replaced. Gaga is competition but could never replace Beyonce, maybe outsell her or have a bigger single but Beyonce has become an icon so unless she develops a drug addiction (Hardly think that will happen) or goes crazy (Maybe but hopefully not) she'll never be replaced just fade into adult music market (Where Streisand, Turner and many others stand now).

both of them, even if their songs catalogue isnt the strongest ever, they have killer stage shows and perform like its their last show each time. you cant really fault them as live performers.

>both of them, even if their songs catalogue isnt the
>strongest ever, they have killer stage shows and perform like
>its their last show each time. you cant really fault them as
>live performers.


This is what people don't seem to understand....And it's even more so with Beyonce...She's at heart a old fashion "razzle-dazzle" entertainer...That will always be bigger than the music....

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

sorry, someone had to say it...

_____________________________________________________________
Everyone here hates pop music, but loves Michael Jackson... Okay Player...

When I think of B, I always think of close friend that swears she is B when any of her songs would come on IN THE CLUB...imitating every move in the videos, hair whip, etc...

That was a few years ago. And we've grown up, graduated from college, married, children, etc...

I think she would have more success if her music matured as her original audience does as well...

Independent Women had its moment, because at that time, a certain demographic was coming into their own independence by leaving home, entering the workplace, etc...

That same demographic is now 10 years older, and probably aren't listening to what's banging in the club or on the radio anymore...

Leave that ish to Rihanna and Gaga and all the other artists you named...

This feels like a regression artistically...and the song is terrible

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

there is effective and non effective.

i mean kesha's single won't be in my top 10 all time or top 50 of all time but i see why its effective and it works. kesha works because the age of the privileged white chick is upon us. so the imagining works.

that voice are 20 voices you hear at work office karaoke every office party event ("wake up in the mornin feelin like p diddy") so it resonated with all the other interns and assistants and supervisors at your gig.

kinda weird but i dont think its the diplo beat.


i mean i could see and hear this pitch meeting from the gate

"imma make an anthem you watch!"


thing is...i think the song woulda rung stronger if it were implied that "the age of the strong woman is here"

thing is beyonce has ALWAYS made "women anthems" without really making them.

"irreplaceable" is a woman's anthem w/o saying it. actually it woulda flopped if it were a self described song as opposed to a narrative of a woman packing her man's bags saying i want you out the door.

truth be told you dont even have to man bash to make a woman's anthem (single ladies and placeable have same common theme "fuck em girl and move on cause he wasn't worth it") "crazy in love" was a declaration of love but felt empowering because its accompanying video had that power to make you wanna join in on the fun.

but isnt this a pattern with most B projects?




come out the gate strong one album

backlash and controversy next record

which sets standards low and expectation high next go round and its met again

and then the honeymoon is over

then she fights her way back again.....



most of yall forget that b was riding BIG on being the diana of DC (dad as berry) solange in the audience ready to fuck girls up for talking shit about her sister.

then she came with a jawn harder than most rappers and her shield is the most loved rapper since 2pac.

add a video that made dudes wanna do her and chicks (and um....dudes) wanna be her.

rinse repeat.

i mean i knew she was gonna come out swinging for dangerously in love....but damn i didn't know she was going for the juggler....


so that said our expectations were low cause we REALLY didn't expect that move in 2003.

and sure enough.....here comes bday's first two singles and what do you know....


everyone hated it

"too much like teena marie"
"we heard this before"

---whatever the case....


then team umbrella comes out the gate winning and right out the gate "ring the alarm" makes her look even crazier.

i didn't think she was gonna recover.


thank god for swiss and neyo on the cleanup.


which THEN brought the pendulum back to excitement with "single ladies" same formula

empowered woman anthem without spelling it out, and crucial video to boot.

not that sasha was my favorite b album but she made it work in her favor.

i got high expectations cause i know she spent a week or two with the antiballas working on some afrobeat ish.

i just think b fans are wishy washy every other album.

i got a focus group of about 4 people at nbc that i call my "common denominator" factor.


so i had to remind em that the very song you hate is the same song you were getting your jersey shore onto at my dj gig all last year (i like the major lazer album fyi) so i played beyonce single for the 2ce and they were like "eh dont like it"


but i noticed something on the 2nd go round.


ADD was kicking in. they were on iphones texting like 20 secs in...

asked em to sing any part of the song NOT "who run the world? GIRLS!"

and they were like "we dont remember anything"

did the same for single ladies and they knew the verse and everything.

they even knew hov's part on "Crazy" and these chicks are as OC/the hills as they come.

so my assessment after my LONGEST post on okayplayer since twitter came along is

the song is TOO DAMN AMBITIOUS in the A.D.D. age

its habitat (the club----where the drunk fist pump and pay 0 attention to music) cant embrace this because this song is a PRIME example of too much of a good thing can ruin the song.


the frustrating thing for most of us is trying to figure out WHY this song isnt working. i almost wanna declare this song the Wu Tang "Triumph" of pop songs. a song so damn linear only mc's and lyricists can grasp to it while casual fans fake like "they down" but really resent it (people resent when music goes over their heads because EVERYBODY wants to feel like they are in on the joke. this works the other way too....people grasp on to perceived "smarter" music to show others that "yes im smarter than you idiots]

like everything is perfect.

she sings great.

the drum patches are fine.

harmonies weaving in and out

but after 5 listens (while im typing this) i can't for the life of me grasp on to one part of this song.


(which also proves why george clinton was a genius, see "knee deep" and "atomic dog" for song structure that is linear and never repeats but sticks like glue.----if you are gonna go this route then you basically need to write 8 different chorus.

see atomic dog

clinton writes chorus as verse and vice "verse" (get it?) sa

chorus one: "atomic doooooooooooooo U oooog" (repeats)

chorus two: "bow wow wow yippee yo yippee yay"

chorus three: "rooof! roooof! "roooof!"

chorus four: "why must i feel like that why must i chase the cat....nothin but the dog in me"

chorus 5: "do the dog catcher dog catcher.....do the dog catcher...."

yall get the point----

as much as we scoff at idiot music, some of our favorite classic are indeed as easy as ABC

i for the record do NOT think this song is wack.


but i also think that a 6 year old wont like bbq eel sashimi.

and that isnt even a how brow "i get something you dont" statement about her audience or even the people reading this essay.

but again....good music from beyonce is neither "hear" (get it? im on a roll son!) nor there.

like what is good music in an american society 2011? we can even agree on health care, let alone great taste in art.

so i feel like with the platform getting crowded (ga ga, perry, spears is gonna stay right there) not to mention history shows that mainstream society can only embrace one black queen at a time and pretty much nik min is about 4 iconic (easy for her in her stride) singles away from being the new queen to beat (her image is MORE cartoony (cartoon blacks ALWAYS win in american society) she can sing and rap. is mired in controversy and has comedic acting chops (higgins from my show (he runs SNL) is "this" close to letting her host once her celebrity rises a lil more) not to mention her personality disposition reads more white girl than ghetto chick--so there is the appeal.

---so that is what b is competing with.

add turning 30.


and america's record for longevity disloyalty.

and a.d.d.

---ghead marinate on that one.

NO! LIST
Tom Petty
M J
Zeppelin
Springsteen
Neil Young
Eagles
Ray Charles
Madonna
Chuck Berry
South Park TV Songs
Justin Timberlake
"Food Glorious Food"
"Twilight Zone" theme
"A Boy Named Sue"
"Night Moves"
"The Situation"
"Superbowl Shuffle"

What the blood claaat ???

.

_
Yo! That’s My Jawn: The Podcast - Available Now!
http://linktr.ee/yothatsmyjawn

does this make me a made man? lol

i disagree about the song's being wack. i think it's very much a "ring the alarm"-type situation, only worse. often, when beyonce goes left-field, she does it in a very uninspired way. using a big sample, instead of an original production, came off as uninspired in the marketplace. the video is somewhat more inspired, and if one had, from the beginning, had the audio and visual presented together, she could have pushed an uninspired song with an impressive spectacle. as it is, since the audio leaked early, ppl heard something they weren't either impressed by or that was catchy enough.

especially after "look at me now," "run the world (girls)" came off as weak. basically, she got done to her what she did to joe buddens in summer 2003. they both were using the same gimmick (in that case, big horns), and in that case, SHE came out way harder than HIM. chris brown returned the favor.

however, fascinating point about george clinton and multiple choruses. so essentially, beyonce should've gone more in the direction of "get me bodied," which imo is an r&b dance classic. if she had dived more deeply into that type of fun, dance focus, instead of of the simple women's anthem that she delivered, she would've seen more success, i agree. that goes back to what you said about her previous anthems that were more implicit in message. someone above brought up "on the floor" by j.lo, which is even less inspired than "run the world," but has been wildly successful b/c it's just about the fun of dancing.

Go Smack yourself and then apologize to your hand for looking stupid - Case_One

http://i54.tinypic.com/nxros2.jpg

fuck you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPYqR1cj2Vg

NO! LIST
Tom Petty
M J
Zeppelin
Springsteen
Neil Young
Eagles
Ray Charles
Madonna
Chuck Berry
South Park TV Songs
Justin Timberlake
"Food Glorious Food"
"Twilight Zone" theme
"A Boy Named Sue"
"Night Moves"
"The Situation"
"Superbowl Shuffle"

no passion in that term.

NO! LIST
Tom Petty
M J
Zeppelin
Springsteen
Neil Young
Eagles
Ray Charles
Madonna
Chuck Berry
South Park TV Songs
Justin Timberlake
"Food Glorious Food"
"Twilight Zone" theme
"A Boy Named Sue"
"Night Moves"
"The Situation"
"Superbowl Shuffle"

admittedly this is a sidebar, but I can't wrap my head around this effective/non-effective way of seeing music. to me that sounds like a perspective that has completely given into the thinking of music as a product first and foremost.


I obviously know you know music more than 99.99% of us here on the board, so I'm not doubting your expertise or merits, but this way of seeing shit is very disheartening for me as a fan to see in an idol.

done for what I consider to be good music, but damn, can you sound more appeased/complacent?

lemme look at top 100 real quick:

damn with the exception of "Rolling In The Deep" i really don't fuck with anything in the top 100.


now will i rock Kesha at an Atlantic City party?

of course? why? 1) to justify the big ass check they wrote me so i can make a living and come back next time. and for some reason? there is a crowd of people that wanna feel good and who am i to deny them that luxury.


so im not rocking that jawn cause its my shiznit......but im rocking it because i can put my tastes aside and give them what they want sometimes.

something i dont like that i control + something they want?= effectiveness (its the bipartisan spirt)

i mean i COULD pull a dangelo and just say this industry is garbage and i want nothing to do with it....


but we can all pretty much say that an active in a creative hostile environment questlove vs an out of commission dangelo makes me an instant winner right?


im not even bitter about it.


i met my new bosses at def jam. so far they are maintaining their "you guys are our new dylan" stance. i wont have to give in to the pressure of making a katy perry song to survive and you guys can save all the flop snark for lupe or odd future.

as long as it means that the record i put out are uninspired or phoned in from home im cool.


i still love music

i love creating.

but damn a mofo miss 1994.

NO! LIST
Tom Petty
M J
Zeppelin
Springsteen
Neil Young
Eagles
Ray Charles
Madonna
Chuck Berry
South Park TV Songs
Justin Timberlake
"Food Glorious Food"
"Twilight Zone" theme
"A Boy Named Sue"
"Night Moves"
"The Situation"
"Superbowl Shuffle"