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Subject: "I'm glad this convo is being had, but still disagree with nixing it..." Previous topic | Next topic
aScribe
Member since Jul 13th 2005
815 posts
Thu Mar-19-15 11:12 AM

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27. "I'm glad this convo is being had, but still disagree with nixing it..."
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I'm glad that people are taking violence against women seriously, that folks from all sides of the industry (e.g., creators/fans, men/women, etc.) are weighing in, and that folks are giving serious thought about how women are traditionally portrayed in comicdom. It's an important conversation to have and always will be. I do still think the cover is fine as is and should not have been pulled.

I realize folks have strong opinions on this, but I'll still give my reasoning for being okay with the cover.

I think context is extremely key here.

The themed variant covers are celebrating The Joker, a character that has a range of interpretation from a simple prankster to a sadistic killer, and, oftentimes, a combination of those two extremes. That means the variant cover should be open to any canonical interpretation of The Joker.

In this particular instance, it was for the cover of Batgirl, a hero he's had an iconic, albeit violent, interaction with (The Killing Joke). In that context, it makes sense to reference that. Not that it had to be referenced, nor should it be the exclusive reference point for these two characters, but it is fair game. And it's clear that the variant cover is indeed SPECIFICALLY referencing that interaction (e.g., Joker's clothing in the piece, the use of the gun). The variant cover isn't a random pairing of Joker and Batgirl with threatening connotations just for the sake of it, it's a callback to a specific interaction between those two characters.

I also think it's important to note that in the variant, unlike in "The Killing Joke" story, Barbara is fully in costume as Batgirl and, while certainly depicted as afraid/terrified, she isn't physically bound nor is the gun pointed at her directly. The implication is that she is terrified/traumatized, which again speaks to a past interaction that would trigger such emotions, not a random reaction to The Joker.

Let me also say, I don't think that "The Killing Joke" or Barbara-as-a-victim should be the ONLY artistic depiction whenever these two characters interact (e.g., on a cover, interior story), but I don't think it should be excluded. It WOULD be a problem if this were the "umpteenth" time Barbara was artistically framed as the terrified victim. It would certainly disservice her as a heroine and as a human being unwilling to conquer her fears. But she's faced The Joker after "The Killing Joke" and defeated him, and would most certainly do so again.

I wouldn't expect the same piece using Wonder Woman or Starfire, and not just because those characters could superhumanly defeat The Joker, but because they haven't had this particular interaction with him. Conversely, I wouldn't be surprised if a Joker-themed cover with Jason Todd/Red Hood referenced "A Death in the Family" – which has happened. Or if a themed variant cover featuring Bane referenced him breaking Batman's back. Or one featuring Doomsday referenced him killing Superman.

As for being tonally different than the current run of the book, most variant covers are. The purpose of a variant has been to feature the book's character within the context of the variant's theme or setting typically without regard for the book's tone. Variants serve the variant's theme with the title character positioned in context to that. And that's what's being done here, with the added historical reference to the title character and variant subject.

And to be clear, I'm generally against variant covers as a consumer (though I've loved the art it generates), I haven't been reading this run of Batgirl, and I wasn't planning to cop this variant cover at all. I'm just against pulling the variant on principle.

  

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The Batgirl #41 (The Joker variant cover) Controversy [View all] , aScribe, Wed Mar-18-15 12:13 PM
 
Subject Author Message Date ID
For the record, I'm fine with it...
Mar 18th 2015
1
Goddamn it I hate the internet.
Mar 18th 2015
2
I get it.
Mar 18th 2015
3
I both get it and feel like it was overblown at the same time.
Mar 18th 2015
5
Precisely. Let's say Spider-Man was sodomized by Venom.
Mar 18th 2015
7
question for you:
Mar 18th 2015
9
      No, you misread what I'm saying.
Mar 18th 2015
11
few things
Mar 18th 2015
8
a few more things.
Mar 18th 2015
12
Yeah, it does look like he's about to sexually assault her
Mar 18th 2015
13
      boom
Mar 18th 2015
14
           Without the History of the Killing Joke that cover isn't as bad
Mar 19th 2015
24
                ..but that cover IS referencing The Killing Joke.
Mar 20th 2015
42
                     Exactly
Mar 21st 2015
47
maybe I'm the wrong person to ask, but I think that's a dope cover.
Mar 18th 2015
4
props to the artist for the sensitivity to pull in once death threats ha...
Mar 18th 2015
6
remember how much folks hated the comics code authority?
Mar 18th 2015
10
yyyyyyyyyep
Mar 21st 2015
48
      I think outrage fatigue is going to set in soon
Mar 21st 2015
54
           No one in here is blindly outraged, though.
Mar 21st 2015
55
                Wasn't referring to PTP speciffically
Mar 21st 2015
56
this seems like the anti-gamergate
Mar 18th 2015
15
As per the writer of this version of Batgirl and the artist...
Mar 18th 2015
16
      thx
Mar 18th 2015
17
      tone of the book indeed
Mar 18th 2015
18
So people are mad at a Comic Supervillian doing some evil shit
Mar 19th 2015
19
No, people are mad at a super heroine being depicted as a victim.
Mar 19th 2015
26
      Once again, he's a SUPERVILLIAN, their whole modus operandi
Mar 19th 2015
30
           Heros don't cry and therefore neither should Heroines
Mar 19th 2015
33
                Batgirl isn't Batman's equal
Mar 21st 2015
49
                     Not only that, but to my understanding Batgirl is supposed to
Mar 21st 2015
52
This is so stupid
Mar 19th 2015
20
It's stupid when the creative team and the artist agree...?
Mar 19th 2015
21
^^^
Mar 19th 2015
28
Isn't that another character together? EDIT: You're right
Mar 19th 2015
23
Except they don't show Batman pissing his pants when he fights Bane...
Mar 19th 2015
31
      THANK YOU!
Mar 19th 2015
32
      ^^^
Mar 19th 2015
35
      Agree. You don't see this. (fan art of Superman + Doomsday)
Mar 19th 2015
37
      LMAO!!!!
Mar 20th 2015
44
      that would be a fantastic cover, though
Mar 21st 2015
51
      I dunno. Sexist just b/c she's crying?
Mar 19th 2015
38
           Sexist because it's a female character crying in fear re: a villain who....
Mar 20th 2015
41
Good cover for a Vertigo comic. Bad cover for a regular ass issue
Mar 19th 2015
22
Maybe I need to re-read Killing Joke, but I don't remember sexual
Mar 19th 2015
25
Well, I mean....
Mar 19th 2015
29
      it always seemed fairly apparent to me.
Mar 20th 2015
43
           Alan Moore says that she wasn't
Mar 21st 2015
50
The artist wanted it removed. What principle is being violated?
Mar 19th 2015
34
^^^
Mar 19th 2015
36
Well, in my opinion, that's a slippery slope...
Mar 20th 2015
39
      Yeah...this happens all the time in comics and publishing...
Mar 20th 2015
40
           basically.
Mar 20th 2015
46
if you were actually reading the book, you'd get why the creators reject...
Mar 20th 2015
45
I don't see an issue with them changing the cover if t doesn't fit
Mar 21st 2015
53

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