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>>assassination. > >Check this out: >http://www.ink19.com/issues/april2003/printReviews/evolutionOfNationOf.html > >"Elijah Muhammad was only the figurehead of the Nation of >Islam. His ability to shape the evolution of the Nation was >quite limited, and his ideology quickly became stagnant. Thus, >it is no wonder that when Malcolm X disavowed Muhammad's >ideological tunnel vision, many left the Nation with him." >
Says who? Who is this guy? From what I can tell, this is only the opinion of a guy who is doing a book review.
>>Also, if E.M. was a figurehead, who was the actual leader >>during this time? > >Not leader but leaders. There were plenty of >spokesmen/leaders speaking on behalf of Elijah Muhammad at the >time of Shabazz' death. >
That is nothing new. The NOI has always had numerous individuals serving in varying capacities of leadership. But Elijah was one the one who issued the top level orders that superceded all others and were to be followed by all in the NOI. This was up until his time of death. These "leaders" took orders from Elijah just like everybody else in the NOI.
>>Mentioning an organization and telling on them is 2 >different >>things. > >I provided a link...people can read. >
Provided a link to what; to show what; to prove what?
>>>>So yes, Black people were the puppets that were seen >>pulling >>>>the trigger, but who was the puppeteer? >>> >>>So are you denying that some of the assassins were not from >>>No. 25? >> >>This is also misleading because you typed the question in >the >>form of a double negative. So I will re-type the question >the >>way that I think you meant to ask it, and you can let me >know >>whether my re-phrasing is accurate or inaccurate. > >There was no need to re-type anything. You knew what I >meant. > >>Some of the >>assassins may've been from Mosque # 25, some of them may not >>have been. Talmadge Hayer I believe was from mosque # 25, >so >>at least he was one that I would have to say yes to. > >No. 25 was involved. NOI do not do anything without a >directive. Even if they had been working for the FBI they >could not have just acted on their own. My point is that the >assassins were getting directives from the FBI and NOI. It >was the same directive.
This part extracted from the above makes me wonder if you're just saying some shit to be saying some shit, if you have any idea of what you are talking about or if just having fun at my expense:
"My point is that the assassins were getting directives from the FBI and NOI."
So do you believe that EM was deliberately and conscioulsly working with the FBI? Is that what are saying? If so, I guess that's cool. Everybody's gotta believe in something. Next thing I know you'll be telling me that you believe in Santa Claus, the tooth fairy, the Easter Bunny, and the Great Pumpkin.
>This reminds me of a time some "spies" from a local newspaper >signed up for classes at a new center where I was director. >The newspaper had previous published some damaging articles >about the org and I told my supervisors that I thought they >were plants. Sure enough the paper published another negative >article but praised the new center. The plants disappeared. >I learned a lot from that experience...about politics and the >b.s. people will do to maintain a status quo. > >>>Like a witness protection program it was part of the deal. >>> >> >>No, it wasn't part of the deal; IT WAS PART OF THE JOB. No >>need for them to hang around there anymore, their work was >>done (i.e., MX was dead and confusion, fingerpointing, and >>misblaming was abound concerning who was responsible for his >>death) so time to move on to the next assignment. > >There was plenty of chaos before he died and it continued >afterwards. > >>Fishy, huh? What I got out of those links is that Farrakhan >>gave a leadership position in the NOI to a man who was >wrongly >>convicted for the death of MX. Abdul Aziz (then Norman >>Butler) stood trial for the murder of MX and was convicted >but >>he wasn't even at the Audobon that day. That day, he had >gone >>to the hospital for a doctor's appt. for treatment for his >>injured leg, which was confirmed by witnesses and hospital >>records. But yet, he was still convicted of MX's >>assassination. > >And that's not fishy? >
To hire someone; to give somone a job who hadn't done anything wrong, is that fishy to me??? Nahhhh. I guess you don't believe in hiring the innocent, huh?
>>You can disagree all you want. Malcolm couldn't prove it; >>Betty couldn't prove it; and you can't prove. The only >thing >>anyone can do is have suspicions and make accusations, but >no >>one can prove anything so no one really knows. > >After talking with my colleague whose family was at the >Audobon when Shabazz was murdered it was clear that any voices >that could prove anything were silenced out of fear. My "boy" >jambone just posted an excellent video that just touches on >that fear. You should check it out. > >>What documents did he show you? What was the source of >these >>documents? > >Some publications within the NOI at the time and right after >Shabazz' death. >
Internallly generated document or old Muhammad Speaks newspapers? What?? What documents did he show you "to prove his case"?
>>First of all, E.M. identified these women as his wives and >he >>took care of them and their children as such (one of these >>women, Tynetta Muhammad and her son, Ishmael (also, E.M.'s >>son), hold leadership positions in the Nation to this very >>day). MX knew about this so-called immorality when he was >on >>silent probation and was trying to get back into an active >>position in the NOI. So for him to claim to be leaving >>because of some "sexual immorality" sounds suspect to me. > >Well, in this country what Muhammad did is immoral AND >illegal. Ask the Mormons. >
Honestly, I don't have to ask the Mormons anything. Wait a minute...why would you want me to ask the Mormons? As far as I know, the Mormons practice polygamy. So they practice, in this country, the very same thing that E.M. was practicing. So what's your point in referencing the Mormons?
>>Okay, I know the pilgrimage to Mecca is a requirement of >>Muslims in the NOI if it is within their means. > >Man, it is more than just the haijj (that was an example). >There are plenty of requirements for folks who truly follow >Islam that is not a requirement in the NOI. >
You really don't know what the hell you're talking about, do you?
Below is an excerpt from Elijah Muhammad's publication, Message to the Blackman in America, in the chapter, "Islam for so-called Negroes (p. 82):
"...The main principles of action in Islam: keeping up prayer, spending in the cause of truth, fasting especially during the month of Ramadan, pilgrimage to Mecca..."
>>Secondly, this wasn't Malcolm's first time seeing white >>Muslims. He made a trip to the so-called Middle East years >>before the 1964 trip and unless all the white Muslims had >left >>town that day, it is likely he saw white Muslims and knew >that >>there white Muslims existed. > >I think what Shabazz was saying was that it all came together >for him during the haijj. >
What all came together for him during Hajj??
>>Thirdly, I refuse to believe that MX was naive enough to >>believe in this ritual meaning much of anything. > >WTF??? What b.s. is this? Plenty of Muslims around the world >take haijj very seriously. >
Hajj, like many other ceremonial practices of various religions is just a ritual. It has nothing to do with how you live and practice what you preach on a daily basis. And the most common person knows that religion is not what you preach, but what you put into practice. A ritual that you may participate in, once in a lifetime (if you're lucky or financially blessed, maybe more than once), is not daily practice, needless to say.
>>And lastly, I assume that you believe the NOI should >practice >>a non-race prejudiced based Islam like the Islamic Arabs >>enslaving and committing all kinds of abuses and atrocities >>against Black Afrikans in the Sudan. > >But you cannot generalize Islam or any religion. Corruption >was everywhere. You should check out The Power of Nightmares: >
I guess you missed my point. Many try to accuse EM of not teaching "True Islam" because he based it in Blackness, and took a nationalistic approach with it. They will point out how Islamic Arabs claim that this type of teaching is not Islam. I was pointing out that many who try to take this stance against EM and the NOI need to look at how the Arabs have used Islam in a non-race based, non-nationalistic way in the Sudan with their treatment of Black people (strong sarcasm here).
I respect all religions, in theory; too bad most of 'em are not truly, properly carried out in practice.
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