My record speaks for itself. Nobody hated on Jordan like me. I was a teen posting on Rec.sport.basketball.pro with Judden and SKF tryna destroy that man's legacy as he was making history night after night. I've never worn the man's shoes. Hell, I legit think I've never TOUCHED a pair. I flat out didn't like the guy. He tried to ruin Isiah and Stern and Falk helped him. I wished terrible things on that man.

All that said, agendas change. I don't like what I see happening in basketball media. The STANDARD was SIX. Nevermind that Kareem had SIX and ALL THEM STATS! I accepted the charade and sat my ass here and rooted for Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, ANYONE who could come close to matching the STANDARD that MJ set. Let's be clear, I only accepted it because my legit criticism about the era in which MJ played, the bum teams he faced in the finals, how he only shined when Bird, Isiah and Magic got old...all that got shot down and laughed off.

Cool.

But, now, I see people tryna throw SIX out the window and highlight LONGEVITY (KAREEEEEEM!!!!!), triple doubles (the most overrated stat in sports, as Euro-influenced positionless basketball has put the ball on the hands of big ass skill players 70% of the time...I will not be one of y'all cysing Jokic like his big soft ass is a legend......these guys are like the Kirk Cousins and Alex Smiths of basketball...all numbers...no thank you) and FINALS APPEARANCES (somehow, same people laugh at Brady whenever he loses a SB, despite having FIVE), I'm gonna make it a priority to restore some damn order. We can't just be changing rules so our faves can get credit.

Bron is top 5 ever. But, he ain't better than no damn Jordan. I saw Jordan and I see this bamma. We not doing this. Before that whole bum ass THREE IS ENOUGH campaign that's going around twitter and the blogs infects this board, I'm drawing the line. Win 3 more and we can talk. It's that's simple.

They really tryna throw Mike in the bushes NOW? After all that hate I put into knocking him down? FOR THIS 3-6 bamma? No way.

I ain't gonna hate LeBron, because he's a far better person than Jordan. But, nobody gonna say he better than Mike without me responding. Unlike unclaimed bags and inappropriate comments from white women at work, if I see it, I'MMA SAY SOMETHING!

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

I think the Lebron-Jordan debate from Lebrononon is
really about highlighting how much closer THEY are
than Lebron is to Kobe.

It's true.

Kobe-Lebron wasn't really even a debate when Kobe was
in his PRIME and Lebron was a KID. Lebron been better
since he was barely in his 20s.

I think that's the real breakthrough here.

As is the understanding that Mr "82 points" can't score like
Lebron can. Lebron is better than Kobe at the only thing we
care about Kobe for. That's true hilarity.

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

But nah he ain't better than Jilla, Wilt or Cap and he is getting kind of old to pass them.

Being likely the fourth greatest player of all time is not a slight.

Maybe he can jump on this process train and get three more rings though. Basa's threads have pretty much provided an instant boost to anyone they malign so it's possible.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

>


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

How did I miss that part? LMAO, nah, cmon man.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

If Lebron wasn't a team-oriented basketball player,
but was a primary chucker, he would have averaged
35 a game in his sleep.

And Kobe's biggest scoring season came one of
his most mediocre teams, dead in his prime.

Lebron had zero mediocre teams in his prime.

that's what's so astounding: that he's pass-first, and still as elite of a scorer as the game has ever seen. The efficiency in his scoring is crazy. He's above 50% for his career from the field - whereas so many volume scorers are in the 45-47% range. He's been scoring with Kareem like efficiency the past few years - and has become a better scorer with age. So many volume scorers just primarily focus on scoring - while Bron is out here working a second full-time job every night.


-->

Jordan simply didn't have Lebron's court vision.
Not even close.

Lebron's scoring is closer to Jordan's than Jordan's
passing is to Lebron's. Lebron the better rebounder.
And Jordan the better defender.

I am NOT saying Lebron > Jordan.

But when you start looking at Lebron's game it
gets weirdly closer than any sensitive thug wants
to admit.


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otCpCn0l4Wo

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

__________
YARDS

>
http://www.calisportsnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/CFoPk4QXIAE1c0u.png

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

just a suggestion, saying Kobe is not top 10 would be more interesting and better at mad-making

Particularly Kobe advocates. They were holding on for dear life like 10 years ago to the debate - and since then Bron has not just sped past Kobe on the all-time pantheon list - but has surpassed the greats (Magic, Duncan, Bird, Wilt etc..) to where the only rational argument that can be entertained is Jordan & Kareem.

But really - only Jordan is >. 2011-2018 Bron has been the most dynamic stretch of basketball in a 7 year stint that's arguably ever been seen (I'd love to hear an argument for a 7 year stint that has been more fruitful -- it would've been Jordan had he not retired in the midst of his 3-title book ends).
-->

Despite him “eclipsing Kobe” in his second year or whatever bullshit y’all type. He stays on your brain and it’s weird. Most of us accepted this long ago - it’s not a big deal and zero Laker/Kobe fans said a word about him in this Bron-MJ thread.

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

Discuss.

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

Help is available.

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

That's not a diss.

But it's true.


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

Cause Kobe is, at worst, a top 15 NBA player of all time. Probably top 10. Cry.

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

And Captain America: Winningest international US player ever

Oh yeah you mad

Kobe v. LeBron was a hot topic 10 years ago - and some swore to the bone that Bron would never surpass Kobe. But since he did that so long ago, it's really not something to bring up - except for the Hurt Locker Kobe stans who just can't let it go. So if you're wondering why it's still brought up - just look in the mirror.
-->

The rest of the shit you typed is just weird.

So people weren't on board with you a goddamn decade ago.

Get over it.

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

so that kinda makes it extra weird

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

>so that kinda makes it extra weird

not as weird as you auditing my posts to ascertain when i was and wasn't on the boards. Must've made quite the impression.

As Kobe would say: #Obsessed


-->

saying someone is better than Bron is a trauma that must be "endured". not only that, even 10 years later, there must be retribution paid for it. there's also the projection of accusing others of doing what he himself is actually doing (bringing up Kobe-Bron comparisons).

i think this is best categorized as 'Lebron Fascism'

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

All depends on who logs in this afternoon.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

This board ain't what it used to be.

It'll go plat, but...36 hours or so.

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

This shit would've gone so quick three or four years ago.

How time flies.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

Jordan or the fact you feel the need to take that stance?

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

but as much as i want someone to surpass him in my lifetime...not like this.

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

The bitterness is heavy.

Ky is set. Kang is set. They're friends; basketball brothers. Let it go.

-->

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

Jordan?
Kareem?
Lafayette Lever?

Nobody out there is really advocating for the position that Bron > Jordan, right today. What many argue is that the totality of Bron's work over the past 15 years is on-par with GOAT activity - only reached by the likes of Jordan/Kareem - and if anybody is going to dethrone MJ, it's LeBron.

The titles thing is funny. 3 titles is an elite mile-marker, and always has been (people used to always tout that Bird had 3 titles as to why he was better than LeBron) - particularly when you were the Finals MVP for all 3 of those titles (second only to Jordan). 3 titles in today's NBA is *a lot*. The way that Bron has won his titles have been prolific - against the top of the very top in all-time competition.

But it's not simply a calculus of titles. It's comprehensive achievement - both as an individual and as a member of a team. The argument for LeBron is that he is the most accomplished individual talent the game has ever seen. To fathom that he could finish as the game's all-time leading scorer (when he's a pass-first playmaker) and top 3 in assists is absurd. That it's even possible is the evidence for his anomalous greatness.

He's #2 All-time. Jordan is his peer.


-->

Like I said, he's top 5 for sure.

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

Not really mad at your opinion.


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

***shrugs***

And Kareem over everybody then MJ.

And I like Lebron a lot. Even as recently road with Zeke when punk ass Pippen went at his neck.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dOgwQ5pmSiQ

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

Just stop.

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

Stop it

I'm not taking Lebron over those guys. Simple as that.

It's not a slight. We're talking in the history of basketball, I'm taking those guys and maybe some others.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

>I'm not taking Lebron over those guys. Simple as that.

You a good nigga

But you lyi


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

-->

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

n/m


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

Lebron is better at basketball, by 47 miles, than
Kobe Bryant.

It's beyond debate at this point.

If I gotta win a series, I'm going with Kobe over Lebron. ***shrugs***

And those other guys I mentioned.

I hope they beat the Pacers though.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

You lying breh

great math, bad argument.

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

or just one of the two when you tally up those rankings?

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

I'm going with those guys over Lebron.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

>I'm going with those guys over Lebron.


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

I mean, if you wanna do things that ain't hypothetical,
let's do it.

Kobe been a great sidekick for the majority of his
finals success.

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

EVERYBODY ON THE WINNING TEAM get a ring.

Only the BEST get the MVP.

Lebron been the best more than Kobe has.

Cry about it.


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

Oh.

Why?

Because Kobe was a sidekick for 3 of them shits.

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

Your argument is wasting away pretty quickly bro.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

LMAO: I mean, if we rocking with sidekicks, Horry
got both Kobe and Bron, right?

Difference is: Being the MVP mean you wasn't no
sidekick to another nigga.

Kobe a sidekick.

Lebron wasn't.


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

Lebron James was the best player on the floor
for the winning team more times than Kobe was.

So Lebron James was a better player in bigger games
in the NBA Finals than Kobe has been.

It's really not very difficult to understand.

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

I hated Jordan. I hated how he took glee in working Starks over. I hated the 'Jordan Rules'. But I still have to say he's the best player I've seen. Two 3-peats isn't something anybody can overlook, regardless of how much you may hate Jordan or love Lebron.

<-- Dave Thomas knows what's up...
__________________________

Jay: Look here homie, any nigga can get a hit record. This here is about respect.
Game: Like Gladys Knight.
Jay: Aretha Franklin.
Game: Word, I like her too.
Jay: Nigga...

..this is rich.

never change.


*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

but i cant pretend there is no difference between winning and losing

some ppl might be built like that...but nah.

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

Even if I was willing to cast aside my petty Kobestan agenda (I'm not)...

Even if I could concede that Bron has faced some historically ridiculous Finals teams (I will not)...

I can't look past Dallas.

Jorn simply wouldna let that happen.

Particularly not the WAY it happened.

With that roster and those odds? No way.

I really got in my feelings after the "bum" comment. Was willing to spot my man a chip just because.

But I can't lower the bar, watch you crash into that bar for NO REASON, and then act like it ain't never happened.

It happened. 6 or shut up.

is the inconsistent comparison of era and help.

-Jordan gets dinged for winning in 'watered down' NBA post expansion but Russell, Magic and Bird don't get dinged for playing on virtual allstar teams (that's like crowning Durant or Curry over LeBron). Wilt doesn't get dinged for being the only 7 footer in a bigoted league that was reluctant to go 'Black' in the 50's/60's. He nor Russell get flack for playing in the league's formative years where there were 8-10 teams and neither gets flack for winning in a 'watered down' league as it began to expand. For Christ's sake, they got a first round bye then had to play two 7 game series to win a title!

The competition was light years behind the late 70's, 80's, 90's, 00's and today. The offensive and defensive schemes changed, the training improved, the caliber of player improved.

-Jordan gets no credit for beating Zeke and Magic eventually because they were 'old' yet Zeke was 29 and Magic 31 when they lost to Jordan (look at these rosters: https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/DET/1991.html, https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/1991.html ... ages hit like this roster: https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/GSW/2018.html). If there are no Jordan Bulls, the Pistons probably win 3 in a row and face the Lakers for the 2nd time in 3 yrs. The Lakers had a prime Worthy, Perkins, Magic and Scott ALL TOP 5 F*CKIN DRAFT PICKS!. Bulls beat the last two NBA champions back to back to win their first title but detractors give them no credit for it.

*Side note, no one ever discounts the Pistons titles but the Celtics core were all over 30 when the Pistons finally beat them: https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/1988.html

-Jordan going 6-0 in the finals as the lead guy and a guard at that (which wasn't the norm, the NBA was dominated by bigs before Zeke and to a lesser extent Magic, pushed teams to titles). Winning all 6 finals MVP's.

-Jordan's team did xyz without him after his first retirement. They lost in the 2nd round. I mean, he did leave behind prime Pip and Grant (both 28) who were allstars so they should have won games in the regular season still. Post season ended at the 2nd round though.

-People marvel at what LeBron can do post 30 but Jordan won 3 titles post 30, lead the league in scoring from 32-34, played 38-39mpg each season, DID NOT MISS ONE FRIGGIN' GAME, at age 34 carried the team while Pip missed almost half the year (38 games) during their last title run (finished the year tied with Utah for the best record at 62-20). And though you can see from his numbers (and his game) he was physically declining, he was still the most potent force in the league. Wizards Jordan put up a combo of numbers (21/5.9/4.4/43%FG) that only 6 players in today's NBA equal or surpass (meaning all had this level or better of stats in all of these areas). If you add steals to that list (1.5) only 3 did it.

-Jordan had 2 major injuries his entire career: Broken foot in his second season and torn cartilage in his knee his first year with the Wizards. Outside of those two seasons, Jordan had a possibility to play in 984 games...he played in all but 7. His career minutes avg is above 38 a game.

-Jordan's rookie season was 28/6.5/5.9 and he shot 51% from the field. If RJ Barrett came in and did that today, the whole world would put him on GOAT trajectory.

-At age 25 he put up 32.5/8r/8a/2.9stls while shooting 53%fg and 85% from the line. In 88-89 when the league was still Bird/Magic/Zeke's. *shrug*

-Bron is great and the greatest all around player we've ever seen and he's continuing his legacy in the 2nd golden age of the NBA. Right now, I have him as 2B next to Kareem's 2A (the Cleveland Ring elevated him IMO). But his legacy is not without flaw. It's funny how Bron wasn't supposed to beat the Spurs with his team but Jordan was supposed to beat the C's/Lakers/Pistons with Dave Corzine, Artis Gilmore, Brad Sellers, Rory Sparrow, Gene Banks, Earl Cureton and Charles Oakley.

Those Bulls rosters were as bad or worse than anything Bron had to carry. Look at this sh*t man: https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CHI/1988.html

And yes, pippen and grant were on this team but they were rookies and wouldn't come into their own for another 2 seasons.

Bron came in the league when it was literally open season. The Lakers dynasty had died, 5 different teams won a ring the first 6 seasons of LeBron's career, 8 different teams (including his) made the finals. His team was a top 4 seed from his 3rd year on and by his 6th yr in the league had netted a finals appearance, 2 number 1 seeds and two league MVP's. Yet HE wasn't expected to win a title...but Jordan was supposed to. He lost to Dwight Howard in the conference finals (played amazing, still lost...Jordan put up 63 on the celtics...still lost), he choked away the 2011 finals to a beatable Dallas team...they let JJ Barea guard him fam. And his finals record is 3-5. Not to mention, he's ruled a garbage eastern conference for 8yrs (after the Celtics and Pistons aged out) whereas when Jordan won, the better teams were all out east (outside of the Lakers).

No consistency.

____________

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE