My record speaks for itself. Nobody hated on Jordan like me. I was a teen posting on Rec.sport.basketball.pro with Judden and SKF tryna destroy that man's legacy as he was making history night after night. I've never worn the man's shoes. Hell, I legit think I've never TOUCHED a pair. I flat out didn't like the guy. He tried to ruin Isiah and Stern and Falk helped him. I wished terrible things on that man.

All that said, agendas change. I don't like what I see happening in basketball media. The STANDARD was SIX. Nevermind that Kareem had SIX and ALL THEM STATS! I accepted the charade and sat my ass here and rooted for Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, ANYONE who could come close to matching the STANDARD that MJ set. Let's be clear, I only accepted it because my legit criticism about the era in which MJ played, the bum teams he faced in the finals, how he only shined when Bird, Isiah and Magic got old...all that got shot down and laughed off.

Cool.

But, now, I see people tryna throw SIX out the window and highlight LONGEVITY (KAREEEEEEM!!!!!), triple doubles (the most overrated stat in sports, as Euro-influenced positionless basketball has put the ball on the hands of big ass skill players 70% of the time...I will not be one of y'all cysing Jokic like his big soft ass is a legend......these guys are like the Kirk Cousins and Alex Smiths of basketball...all numbers...no thank you) and FINALS APPEARANCES (somehow, same people laugh at Brady whenever he loses a SB, despite having FIVE), I'm gonna make it a priority to restore some damn order. We can't just be changing rules so our faves can get credit.

Bron is top 5 ever. But, he ain't better than no damn Jordan. I saw Jordan and I see this bamma. We not doing this. Before that whole bum ass THREE IS ENOUGH campaign that's going around twitter and the blogs infects this board, I'm drawing the line. Win 3 more and we can talk. It's that's simple.

They really tryna throw Mike in the bushes NOW? After all that hate I put into knocking him down? FOR THIS 3-6 bamma? No way.

I ain't gonna hate LeBron, because he's a far better person than Jordan. But, nobody gonna say he better than Mike without me responding. Unlike unclaimed bags and inappropriate comments from white women at work, if I see it, I'MMA SAY SOMETHING!

I think the Lebron-Jordan debate from Lebrononon is
really about highlighting how much closer THEY are
than Lebron is to Kobe.

It's true.

Kobe-Lebron wasn't really even a debate when Kobe was
in his PRIME and Lebron was a KID. Lebron been better
since he was barely in his 20s.

I think that's the real breakthrough here.

As is the understanding that Mr "82 points" can't score like
Lebron can. Lebron is better than Kobe at the only thing we
care about Kobe for. That's true hilarity.

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

But nah he ain't better than Jilla, Wilt or Cap and he is getting kind of old to pass them.

Being likely the fourth greatest player of all time is not a slight.

Maybe he can jump on this process train and get three more rings though. Basa's threads have pretty much provided an instant boost to anyone they malign so it's possible.

>


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

How did I miss that part? LMAO, nah, cmon man.

If Lebron wasn't a team-oriented basketball player,
but was a primary chucker, he would have averaged
35 a game in his sleep.

And Kobe's biggest scoring season came one of
his most mediocre teams, dead in his prime.

Lebron had zero mediocre teams in his prime.

that's what's so astounding: that he's pass-first, and still as elite of a scorer as the game has ever seen. The efficiency in his scoring is crazy. He's above 50% for his career from the field - whereas so many volume scorers are in the 45-47% range. He's been scoring with Kareem like efficiency the past few years - and has become a better scorer with age. So many volume scorers just primarily focus on scoring - while Bron is out here working a second full-time job every night.


-->

Jordan simply didn't have Lebron's court vision.
Not even close.

Lebron's scoring is closer to Jordan's than Jordan's
passing is to Lebron's. Lebron the better rebounder.
And Jordan the better defender.

I am NOT saying Lebron > Jordan.

But when you start looking at Lebron's game it
gets weirdly closer than any sensitive thug wants
to admit.


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otCpCn0l4Wo

>
http://www.calisportsnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/CFoPk4QXIAE1c0u.png

just a suggestion, saying Kobe is not top 10 would be more interesting and better at mad-making

Particularly Kobe advocates. They were holding on for dear life like 10 years ago to the debate - and since then Bron has not just sped past Kobe on the all-time pantheon list - but has surpassed the greats (Magic, Duncan, Bird, Wilt etc..) to where the only rational argument that can be entertained is Jordan & Kareem.

But really - only Jordan is >. 2011-2018 Bron has been the most dynamic stretch of basketball in a 7 year stint that's arguably ever been seen (I'd love to hear an argument for a 7 year stint that has been more fruitful -- it would've been Jordan had he not retired in the midst of his 3-title book ends).
-->

Despite him “eclipsing Kobe” in his second year or whatever bullshit y’all type. He stays on your brain and it’s weird. Most of us accepted this long ago - it’s not a big deal and zero Laker/Kobe fans said a word about him in this Bron-MJ thread.

Discuss.

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

Help is available.

That's not a diss.

But it's true.


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

Cause Kobe is, at worst, a top 15 NBA player of all time. Probably top 10. Cry.

And Captain America: Winningest international US player ever

Oh yeah you mad

Kobe v. LeBron was a hot topic 10 years ago - and some swore to the bone that Bron would never surpass Kobe. But since he did that so long ago, it's really not something to bring up - except for the Hurt Locker Kobe stans who just can't let it go. So if you're wondering why it's still brought up - just look in the mirror.
-->

The rest of the shit you typed is just weird.

So people weren't on board with you a goddamn decade ago.

Get over it.

so that kinda makes it extra weird

>so that kinda makes it extra weird

not as weird as you auditing my posts to ascertain when i was and wasn't on the boards. Must've made quite the impression.

As Kobe would say: #Obsessed


-->

saying someone is better than Bron is a trauma that must be "endured". not only that, even 10 years later, there must be retribution paid for it. there's also the projection of accusing others of doing what he himself is actually doing (bringing up Kobe-Bron comparisons).

i think this is best categorized as 'Lebron Fascism'

All depends on who logs in this afternoon.

This board ain't what it used to be.

It'll go plat, but...36 hours or so.

This shit would've gone so quick three or four years ago.

How time flies.

Jordan or the fact you feel the need to take that stance?

but as much as i want someone to surpass him in my lifetime...not like this.

The bitterness is heavy.

Ky is set. Kang is set. They're friends; basketball brothers. Let it go.

-->

Jordan?
Kareem?
Lafayette Lever?

Nobody out there is really advocating for the position that Bron > Jordan, right today. What many argue is that the totality of Bron's work over the past 15 years is on-par with GOAT activity - only reached by the likes of Jordan/Kareem - and if anybody is going to dethrone MJ, it's LeBron.

The titles thing is funny. 3 titles is an elite mile-marker, and always has been (people used to always tout that Bird had 3 titles as to why he was better than LeBron) - particularly when you were the Finals MVP for all 3 of those titles (second only to Jordan). 3 titles in today's NBA is *a lot*. The way that Bron has won his titles have been prolific - against the top of the very top in all-time competition.

But it's not simply a calculus of titles. It's comprehensive achievement - both as an individual and as a member of a team. The argument for LeBron is that he is the most accomplished individual talent the game has ever seen. To fathom that he could finish as the game's all-time leading scorer (when he's a pass-first playmaker) and top 3 in assists is absurd. That it's even possible is the evidence for his anomalous greatness.

He's #2 All-time. Jordan is his peer.


-->

Like I said, he's top 5 for sure.

Not really mad at your opinion.


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

***shrugs***

And Kareem over everybody then MJ.

And I like Lebron a lot. Even as recently road with Zeke when punk ass Pippen went at his neck.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dOgwQ5pmSiQ

Just stop.

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

Stop it

I'm not taking Lebron over those guys. Simple as that.

It's not a slight. We're talking in the history of basketball, I'm taking those guys and maybe some others.

>I'm not taking Lebron over those guys. Simple as that.

You a good nigga

But you lyi


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

-->

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

n/m


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

Lebron is better at basketball, by 47 miles, than
Kobe Bryant.

It's beyond debate at this point.

If I gotta win a series, I'm going with Kobe over Lebron. ***shrugs***

And those other guys I mentioned.

I hope they beat the Pacers though.

You lying breh

great math, bad argument.

or just one of the two when you tally up those rankings?

I'm going with those guys over Lebron.

>I'm going with those guys over Lebron.


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

I mean, if you wanna do things that ain't hypothetical,
let's do it.

Kobe been a great sidekick for the majority of his
finals success.

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

EVERYBODY ON THE WINNING TEAM get a ring.

Only the BEST get the MVP.

Lebron been the best more than Kobe has.

Cry about it.


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

Oh.

Why?

Because Kobe was a sidekick for 3 of them shits.

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

Your argument is wasting away pretty quickly bro.

LMAO: I mean, if we rocking with sidekicks, Horry
got both Kobe and Bron, right?

Difference is: Being the MVP mean you wasn't no
sidekick to another nigga.

Kobe a sidekick.

Lebron wasn't.


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

Lebron James was the best player on the floor
for the winning team more times than Kobe was.

So Lebron James was a better player in bigger games
in the NBA Finals than Kobe has been.

It's really not very difficult to understand.

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

I hated Jordan. I hated how he took glee in working Starks over. I hated the 'Jordan Rules'. But I still have to say he's the best player I've seen. Two 3-peats isn't something anybody can overlook, regardless of how much you may hate Jordan or love Lebron.

..this is rich.

never change.


*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

but i cant pretend there is no difference between winning and losing

some ppl might be built like that...but nah.

Even if I was willing to cast aside my petty Kobestan agenda (I'm not)...

Even if I could concede that Bron has faced some historically ridiculous Finals teams (I will not)...

I can't look past Dallas.

Jorn simply wouldna let that happen.

Particularly not the WAY it happened.

With that roster and those odds? No way.

I really got in my feelings after the "bum" comment. Was willing to spot my man a chip just because.

But I can't lower the bar, watch you crash into that bar for NO REASON, and then act like it ain't never happened.

It happened. 6 or shut up.

is the inconsistent comparison of era and help.

-Jordan gets dinged for winning in 'watered down' NBA post expansion but Russell, Magic and Bird don't get dinged for playing on virtual allstar teams (that's like crowning Durant or Curry over LeBron). Wilt doesn't get dinged for being the only 7 footer in a bigoted league that was reluctant to go 'Black' in the 50's/60's. He nor Russell get flack for playing in the league's formative years where there were 8-10 teams and neither gets flack for winning in a 'watered down' league as it began to expand. For Christ's sake, they got a first round bye then had to play two 7 game series to win a title!

The competition was light years behind the late 70's, 80's, 90's, 00's and today. The offensive and defensive schemes changed, the training improved, the caliber of player improved.

-Jordan gets no credit for beating Zeke and Magic eventually because they were 'old' yet Zeke was 29 and Magic 31 when they lost to Jordan (look at these rosters: https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/DET/1991.html, https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/1991.html ... ages hit like this roster: https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/GSW/2018.html). If there are no Jordan Bulls, the Pistons probably win 3 in a row and face the Lakers for the 2nd time in 3 yrs. The Lakers had a prime Worthy, Perkins, Magic and Scott ALL TOP 5 F*CKIN DRAFT PICKS!. Bulls beat the last two NBA champions back to back to win their first title but detractors give them no credit for it.

*Side note, no one ever discounts the Pistons titles but the Celtics core were all over 30 when the Pistons finally beat them: https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/1988.html

-Jordan going 6-0 in the finals as the lead guy and a guard at that (which wasn't the norm, the NBA was dominated by bigs before Zeke and to a lesser extent Magic, pushed teams to titles). Winning all 6 finals MVP's.

-Jordan's team did xyz without him after his first retirement. They lost in the 2nd round. I mean, he did leave behind prime Pip and Grant (both 28) who were allstars so they should have won games in the regular season still. Post season ended at the 2nd round though.

-People marvel at what LeBron can do post 30 but Jordan won 3 titles post 30, lead the league in scoring from 32-34, played 38-39mpg each season, DID NOT MISS ONE FRIGGIN' GAME, at age 34 carried the team while Pip missed almost half the year (38 games) during their last title run (finished the year tied with Utah for the best record at 62-20). And though you can see from his numbers (and his game) he was physically declining, he was still the most potent force in the league. Wizards Jordan put up a combo of numbers (21/5.9/4.4/43%FG) that only 6 players in today's NBA equal or surpass (meaning all had this level or better of stats in all of these areas). If you add steals to that list (1.5) only 3 did it.

-Jordan had 2 major injuries his entire career: Broken foot in his second season and torn cartilage in his knee his first year with the Wizards. Outside of those two seasons, Jordan had a possibility to play in 984 games...he played in all but 7. His career minutes avg is above 38 a game.

-Jordan's rookie season was 28/6.5/5.9 and he shot 51% from the field. If RJ Barrett came in and did that today, the whole world would put him on GOAT trajectory.

-At age 25 he put up 32.5/8r/8a/2.9stls while shooting 53%fg and 85% from the line. In 88-89 when the league was still Bird/Magic/Zeke's. *shrug*

-Bron is great and the greatest all around player we've ever seen and he's continuing his legacy in the 2nd golden age of the NBA. Right now, I have him as 2B next to Kareem's 2A (the Cleveland Ring elevated him IMO). But his legacy is not without flaw. It's funny how Bron wasn't supposed to beat the Spurs with his team but Jordan was supposed to beat the C's/Lakers/Pistons with Dave Corzine, Artis Gilmore, Brad Sellers, Rory Sparrow, Gene Banks, Earl Cureton and Charles Oakley.

Those Bulls rosters were as bad or worse than anything Bron had to carry. Look at this sh*t man: https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CHI/1988.html

And yes, pippen and grant were on this team but they were rookies and wouldn't come into their own for another 2 seasons.

Bron came in the league when it was literally open season. The Lakers dynasty had died, 5 different teams won a ring the first 6 seasons of LeBron's career, 8 different teams (including his) made the finals. His team was a top 4 seed from his 3rd year on and by his 6th yr in the league had netted a finals appearance, 2 number 1 seeds and two league MVP's. Yet HE wasn't expected to win a title...but Jordan was supposed to. He lost to Dwight Howard in the conference finals (played amazing, still lost...Jordan put up 63 on the celtics...still lost), he choked away the 2011 finals to a beatable Dallas team...they let JJ Barea guard him fam. And his finals record is 3-5. Not to mention, he's ruled a garbage eastern conference for 8yrs (after the Celtics and Pistons aged out) whereas when Jordan won, the better teams were all out east (outside of the Lakers).

No consistency.

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

This is the kind of stuff that makes the board fun to debate on (and not just entertaining to syce) - to see really cogent arguments laid out. I've always had MJ as #1. I grew up in Illinois and watched his first 3-peat title run as a kid and he remains the most legendary player in the league as far as i'm concerned - and the most accomplished. The unblemished finals record is mayweather-like perfection that will be tough for anyone to topple.

LeBron is the next evolution of the GOAT prototype type player - and he's clearly #2 (or 2b alongside Kareem) already when you objectively look at his mix of team and individual accomplishments. But he's not done and can close the gap. After all - Jordan still won 3 titles after age 32/33 - so there is some time, but it would have to be an epic finish.

-->

http://airjudden2.tripod.com/ejf/indexf.html

so offbrand.

didn't realize it at the time, but judden was a pioneer in this shit. definitely started that whole "extreme nba troll" wave.

them joints shaped my trolling. SKF and Judden were so committed to mad-making, i was in awe.

How in the world is that website still up? Who is sporting the bills for the server hosting that website?

He wins in 2004 (with Shaq; Kobe single handedly lost
the Lakers that series....if Kobe doesn't play, Lakers
might win)

He wins in 2008

And he wins in 2014



----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

And Lebron wins a Finals MVP or two, even with
Shaq, unlike SideKick-obe Bryant


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

for a Miami team that couldn't get out of the first round and was perennially mediocre.

Then he left a dynasty team in Miami that he had built from the ground-up to join a 20-something win team in Cleveland.

But I know - facts are pesky.

-->

>for a Miami team that couldn't get out of the first round and
>was perennially mediocre.
>
>Then he left a dynasty team in Miami that he had built from
>the ground-up to join a 20-something win team in Cleveland.
>
>But I know - facts are pesky.
>
>-->


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

yeah a real risky proposition going to miami.

>yeah a real risky proposition going to miami.

Bwahahahha

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

To prop him up it actually hurts him. You don’t need to lie
to prove Brons greatness.

Bron was obviously not the only change Miami made,
and to say he built that team is a straight up lie.

Hell there were debates if it was his team or wades
at least that first year.

I pegged you as starting watching basketball in like
‘08 or something but is it really like 2015?

Even in Cleveland Bron has been able to hit the reset-
hell he did twice just this season.

And him going back to the Cavs was cool as shit. But let’s
not pretend that him leaving Miami had nothing to do
with the beat down the spurs gave him.

5 6 7 rings turned into 2 real quick.

>But I know - facts are pesky.
>

^^^ Irony.

>Bron was obviously not the only change Miami made,
>and to say he built that team is a straight up lie.

Oh.

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

chris bosh had to retire after a half season with a vascular disease and nobody but Chalmers and Deng played more than 62 games

12 different players had double digit starts

partying on injuries, eh?

He won a 'chip.

Just go home.

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

Hi

Cry sissy


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

sans Kyrie and Love -- and pushed the Warriors to 6 games.

It's funny who we have excuses for - versus who we make excuses for.

-->

he (and kyrie) led them to the finals (which were played) sans love and kyrie

>he (and kyrie) led them to the finals (which were played)
>sans love and kyrie

Bwahahahhahahahahahjhhahhahahahahahahahha

So now we counting sidekicks??!?

So JORDAN ain't win them rings, Jordan AND PIPPEN
won them?!?!

Bwahahahhaahhahahahahahhahahahahahahahhahahahahahah

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

Injuries happen to every team. Why wasn't Wade able to lead them out of mediocrity after Bron left? The team was one-year removed from a Finals appearance and fell off the face of the earth after Bron left.

Again - these facts shouldn't upset you.

-->

and won a division

and led them in scoring

and did it with Bosh missing half the season again

but youre playing stupid to keep asking me what he did in a season he missed 20+ games.

LMAOOOOOOOO

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

I'll be sure to check for you noting that as a significant accomplishment.

Thanks.


-->

They out here lying

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O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

Entertaining tho.

-->

oh thats right, you still pretend kevin love doesnt exist

my bad lmao

>oh thats right, you still pretend kevin love doesnt exist
>
>my bad lmao

Kevin Love? Who misses as many playoff games as he appears in due to injury? Who is averaging 12 ppg on 33% from the field thus far this year? Yea - huge difference-maker right now for the Cavs.

Wade picked his spots and had a standout half every now and then for that team. LeBron does it every single night.


-->

(1) Bron left an elite 60+win team in Cleveland to join a Miami team that was in the midst of mediocrity. He was the MVP player that led that team from mediocrity to dynamism.

(2) He then left that dynasty team to join a lottery-bound, 20-something win team in Cleveland - and led that team to the most historic comeback title in NBA history and 3 straight Finals appearances.

That these facts make you so upset is indicative where your bias is. A fervent bias that only has you surface on the boards when it's about LeBron James.

It's gonna be ok, though.

-->

but "lies!" and "fake news!" is a thing now - so I get it how you might think you're entitled to your own facts.

-->

Not what the roster looked like before or after him - those weren't the rosters he played with.

how'd they do in Miami after he left?

When he went to Cleveland - they already had Kyrie and the core intact. Then you add Kevin Love (who I guess you think is such a huge difference maker?) and LeBron James - and they win 30 more games and compete in the Finals, winning a title a year later.

It's very easy to ascertain as to what the predominate factor is in all of these various equations.



-->

>for a Miami team that couldn't get out of the first round and
>was perennially mediocre.

you always try to make it seem like he signed on with the Little Sisters of the Poor church league squad in 2010.

he joined a 47-win team with the reigning 1st team all nba shooting guard, one year removed from a scoring title and 4 yrs removed from a finals mvp, that had also just added a 5x all star power forward. both in their athletic primes.

lebron's legacy is secure. you don't have to artificially boost it up by pretending that miami was this collection of boxcar hobos that he dragged into relevancy from the depths of basketball hell. the '10 heat + bosh alone still win mid-50's in 2011.

it was a good team, which lebron made great. not the ragtag underachieving mutts that your narrative and agenda necessitate it be portrayed as.




>Then he left a dynasty team in Miami that he had built from
>the ground-up to join a 20-something win team in Cleveland.
>
>But I know - facts are pesky.
>
>-->

since when are All-NBA shooting guards and Finals MVPs not judged by their post-season performance? Wade has never gotten out of the 2nd round w/out Shaq or LeBron on his team. He had one of the most commanding singular performances in Finals history in 2006 - and then after that his post-season performance (when he was *the* man) has been abysmal - Carmelo-esque.

>he joined a 47-win team with the reigning 1st team all nba
>shooting guard, one year removed from a scoring title and 4
>yrs removed from a finals mvp

And what did that team do after 2006? Let's see:
2007: *swept* in first round (the year after winning a title)
2008: missed playoffs *entirely*
2009: bounced in 1st round
2010: destroyed in 1st round, barely winning a game

That was a team on the brink of utter collapse and implosion after years of unmet expectations. Cute that you note they won "47 games" though lol. Wade is an all-time great shooting guard - so why are your standards for him so low? You act like this was a perfectly competitive team that was challenging the east every year before Bron came. They weren't. They were bottom-feeders in the low playoff bracket with no hope for a title-run until Kang came to South Beach.

You're right about one thing though: LeBron's legacy is secure. Some of y'all egos ain't, tho.


-->

>That was a team on the brink of utter collapse and implosion after years of unmet expectations.

christ.

yeah, lebron chose miami in 2010 not because he saw a promising foundation there w/ all stars bosh and wade, but because it was a sinking ship taking on water. he was looking for the highest possible degree of difficulty. final choice was btwn them and the 12 win nets.

I mean, can we admit that's absurd?

Lebron's Miami move was closer to what happened
in Boston than what Durant did.

Somehow Durant got criticized less for what he did.

Why?

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

you stay replying to shit niggas ain't even say. lolz!

if you're just going to have both sides of the convo... why even bother involving me?

just create a burner username and reply to yourself.

you've been super complimentary of Durant and oddly critical of LeBron throughout the years - particularly last year. The double standard re: Le Decision is real.

Durant joined an all-time great team that just won a title and gutted him in 7 in the WCF.

Bron joined a team that got bounced 4-1 in the 1st round of the Eastern Conference Playoffs.

Verrrrry different - yet the criticism was burdened disproportionately by LeBron.

It's more than a fair point. You just don't like it.

-->

you and O are the only real lebron fans here. or anywhere. the rest of us despise him.

keep fighting the good fight.

I got Bron finishing about 9th in MVP voting next year. how bout you?

-->

Nah nobody is claiming that Miami was a lottery team - but they were bottom of the food chain among Eastern Conference playoff teams. You keep bringing up Bosh but he likely would've never made the move to Miami had Bron not been involved - so we don't know how good that team would've been sans Bron.

Although we do have a small sample size: the year Bron left and Bosh/Wade were together with a team that just appeared in the Finals. That team struggled all year long (even before Bosh had to sit out). They weren't very good. In fact, they got better after Bosh sat. Scraped their way through the 1st round, and got bounced in the 2nd round. So sure - they were an average playoff team.

But Bron turned them into a dynasty.



-->

Dula, admit it:

It's easily the most risky and most successful free agent
move of all time.

He went to work for a boss he HATED (Dan Gilbert) to
a team that was ass cheeks all because of home sentimental
shit.

And he BROUGHT them a chip.

It is NOT hyperbole to say that it is one of the 5 best
championship stories of all time, any sport.

Why y'all fighting it is silly to me.

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O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

And the latter is the riskiest, most triumphant
free agent move in sports history. I'm sorry, it's
true.

You be on some bullshit tho, D, dunno why

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O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

i mean... if you want to talk about something else, go do that.

He took two gigantic risks, one out of *sheer*
sentimentality (as in, NOT EVEN CLOSE to the best chance
for him to win chips, and won chips in both places)

It's legendary.

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O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

Scared he wouldn't get to six rings, he tried to redefine one ring with a Cleveland team that with him was the most talent in the conference as his GOAT argument.

>Scared he wouldn't get to six rings, he tried to redefine one
>ring with a Cleveland team that with him was the most talent
>in the conference as his GOAT argument.

EXACTLY, he DID NOT CHOOSE THE SITUATION that was MOST
CONVENIENT or would GIVE HIM THE BEST CHANCE TO WIN.

He chose are NEW AND DIFFICULT SITUATION, WON THE FUCKING
TITLE ANYWAY and Y'ALL STILL SAD!!!

BWAHAHHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHA he pulled off the GREATEST FINALS
UPSET EVER AND YALL STILL SAD!!!

BWHAHHAHHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH
AHHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHAAHHAHA
AHHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHAAHHAHA
AHHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHAAHHAHA
AHHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHAAHHAHA
AHHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHAAHHAHA
AHHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHAAHHAHA
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AHHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHAAHHAHA
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AHHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHAAHHAHA
AHHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHAAHHAHA
AHHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHAAHHAHA
AHHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHAAHHAHA
AHHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHAAHHAHA
AHHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHAAHHAHA
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AHHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHAAHHAHA
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AHHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHAAHHAHA
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AHHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHAAHHAHA
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AHHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHAAHHAHA
AHHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHAAHHAHA
AHHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHAAHHAHA
AHHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHAAHHAHA
AHHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHAAHHAHA
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AHHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHAAHHAHA
AHHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHAAHHAHA
AHHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHAAHHAHA


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O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

no my intent. jordan just better than bron and bari bout to get paid, regardless.

giannis should be able to carry teams out the first, since he's that good and all. but, if not, he can just pad and get to the HOF anyway like grant hill did.

mad?

>no my intent. jordan just better than bron and bari bout to
>get paid, regardless.

Never said anything about Jordan in light of Bron

I DEFENDED Jabari in that post.

>giannis should be able to carry teams out the first, since
>he's that good and all. but, if not, he can just pad and get
>to the HOF anyway like grant hill did.

Giannis lost the coach who made him a star, all because
of racism.


>mad?

The opposite, actually

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O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

other than pointing out the obvious: it's salty with bron disdain since he parted ways w/ Ky the Gawd.

And that's ok - it's sports. The people who are mad are the ones who *maybe* have Bron in their top 5 and are patently offended when he's mentioned in the same breath as MJ.

-->

-->

.
.

"I cannot see how nature could have created itself. Only a supernatural force that is outside of space and time could have done that. ~ Francis Collins

Hate aside, guys, this really is a dead heat.


http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/21318089/where-michael-jordan-lebron-james-stack-1072nd-career-game


(LOL @ "time shared with #1 overall picks" as a proxy
for talent played with. The stat has Greg Oden and Joe
Smith in there....ESPN hires really dumb people)

And you have to consider that Lebron came into the
league out of high school, and not after his junior
year of college.


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "