not always been willing to give the benefit of the doubt to opposing views. I've been unfair many times regarding my unwillingness to listen to alternative thinking, perspectives, and views. I've taken hard-line positions on issues based on my faith and have left little room for the opportunity for discourse. And I've been DEAD WRONG for failing to be a good listener even when the conversation for the other side of a subject, topic, of view does not line up with mine.

Yes, I'm an Apologist for the Christian faith. Yes, I'm a member of the clergy. Yes, I care for people, love people, comfort people, and my heart breaks for people (the sick, marginalized, suffering, hurting) and this world. But I confess that I have not always been loving. I have not always been patient and I have even been stubborn and rude. And for that, I apologize to anyone that I have offended.

I have made efforts to be civil and have good quality dialog, but I have not maintained that level of discourse when faced with rudeness, SANRK, name calling, etc. In response, I have turned to use the same tactics as a way to combat what may have been happening to me. And for that, I apologize - even to the offender.

Why am I apologizing? I'm doing this because our worlds are broken. As humans, we SUCK right now and we really don't have to be this way or treat each other so badly. Our conversations around subjects that may cause opposing views often lead to nothing more than shouting and name calling. And in the midst of the uncivil dialog, we try to mask our BS with clever responses knowing full we that we have no intention of changing our views or opinions. There is little room for fresh eyes on a subject or changing opinions. We hate to evolve because we don't want to be wrong. But guess what? It's ok to be wrong and it's ok to change or at least consider the possibility of changing. We have to escape the comfort of group think just so we don't get left out. It's ok to stand for your cause too, but that doesn't mean the conversation has to end with devaluing the person at the other end.

Man, I'm not the best about listening, but I'm willing to do better. I hope that some of you will join me. We can disagree with civility and love, and still treat each other as valuable human beings.

A thousand apologies for all the folks that I let down who expected me to be a better preacher and servant. I'll try to do better. we can try together and still be different at the same time.

Love, Case




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“It was the evidence from science and history that prompted me to abandon my atheism and become a Christian.” — Lee Strobel, The Case for Christ

>I have made efforts to be civil and have good quality dialog,
>but I have not maintained that level of discourse when faced
>with rudeness, SANRK, name calling, etc.

No. You're stating that you deviate from quality dialog *when faced with rudeness snark and name calling*.

This is blatantly false. Often, you get those things as a direct result of your unwillingness to engage honestly , directly, and in good faith. And this has been pointed out in real time.

So you're off to a very bad start if you stand by that statement, because you're actively poisoning the well. Something you've been called on countless times.

>In response, I have
>turned to use the same tactics as a way to combat what may
>have been happening to me.

Worse, you doubled down with this claim that you're merely retaliating.

You're doing this dance of feigning responsibility, while hedging and making excuses. It's the exact opposite of taking ownership.

The rest of what you wrote sounds good and well, but the fact that you couldn't resist the above hedge dance, and placed it right smack in the middle of an essay that otherwise sounds heartfelt, if not downright contrite, presents the same old, disingenuous, insincere Case.

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“It was the evidence from science and history that prompted me to abandon my atheism and become a Christian.” — Lee Strobel, The Case for Christ

Because if you actually meant that shit, you'd have had a reflective, genuine reply that was consistent with the tone of the OP.

But no. You did something you literally ALWAYS DO, and it got pointed out.

And "I'll pray for you" was your response.

You threw a big ol fly in the ointment. It was noticed, and noted. You took that opportunity to..... do the exact sort of thing I was talking about.

Creator of Heaven and Earth. God of compassion, love, grace, and mercy. I appeal to your loving transformative power on this night on the behalf of the person named ColdTruth. Father, please pour out your joy and renew his faith. Touch every broken place in his life with your healing power. Lord, please heal is heart, mind, soul. Renew his spirit. Rescue him from the pain and suffering. Rescue him from his bitterness. Lord, touch his mind and let your peace be a recovering balm and oil that can mend every shattered place in his life. Turn his mind towards you so that he can know how much you long to repair the relationship that he walked away from years ago. Adoni, I don't know his story, but you do. Let him know that you wast nothing that is put into your hands. So, Father, please help him put all of his troubles, issues, worries, and needs into your hands. And then, God, please bless him with a strong encounter with your presence so that he'll know that it was by your love will and heart, that he will be made whole. I submit this prayer and petition to you in the name of my Savior Jesus Christ, Amen.



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“It was the evidence from science and history that prompted me to abandon my atheism and become a Christian.” — Lee Strobel, The Case for Christ

Yep. Rather than ACTUALLY make good on the things you literally JUST SAID...

You do shit like this.

Wow.

That's why I put up with you. I believe what I pray and I believe God can change your life.
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“It was the evidence from science and history that prompted me to abandon my atheism and become a Christian.” — Lee Strobel, The Case for Christ

You know, like a human being, and not ChristoBot.

How To Win Friends and Influence People
https://www.amazon.com/How-Win-Friends-Influence-People-ebook/dp/B003WEAI4E


Get a Kindle version or Paperback, but please order this book ASAP. I think it will help you a lot when it comes to how you engage people so that you can get the dialog that you're looking for without off of the undeeded contention.



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“It was the evidence from science and history that prompted me to abandon my atheism and become a Christian.” — Lee Strobel, The Case for Christ

You're conflating the way I engage YOU and people like you with how I engage *people*.

And all you've done here is exemplify exactly what I said.

You'd rather do this bullshit here, and get this thing locked- which it clearly will be- rather than start engaging without that insidious, dishonest tact that always seems to find it's way with you.

You said a lot of things on the OP.

And then immediately demonstrated that the first critique of the OP was incredibly accurate.

>You're conflating the way I engage YOU and people like you
>with how I engage *people*.


What's different about Case and people like him from *people?

How do you engage Case and the like differently from the way you engage *people?

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Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

I always prayed for this guy as we had different theological views yet as children we both believed at least in eternal life.

As I grew in my faith he became more of a non believer. He'd ask if I saw God when at church and this is when were 10 or so

I never let up in praying for him and in fact once as kids we had a paper route and he lost his flashlight. He was really vexed about it (as we can be as kids) and I prayed that he'd be find it while he kept searching. He found that flashlight the moment I said amen. True story.

Anyway flash forward to today and he has paranoid schizophrenia and can't work at all. None of us in his friend group hear from him anymore. It's as if he's dead to us. Our birthdays were back to back and we were friends since elementary school.

All of that is to say. Praying is one thing, but maybe like they say "live so that people see you as a blessing" to paraphrase.

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

Prayers can deliver healing and one's presence can bring comfort.
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“It was the evidence from science and history that prompted me to abandon my atheism and become a Christian.” — Lee Strobel, The Case for Christ

meaning that no one really knows what the nature of the relationship between saviour and saved looks like in action.

We may get glimpses through bible stories or a few special folks in our lives, but I wonder how often those who believe tend to unintentionally think their relationship with the messiah should be the same as someone elses?

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

And it all happened in less than an hour.

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"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

>Creator of Heaven and Earth. God of compassion, love, grace,
>and mercy. I appeal to your loving transformative power on
>this night on the behalf of the person named ColdTruth.
>Father, please pour out your joy and renew his faith. Touch
>every broken place in his life with your healing power. Lord,
>please heal is heart, mind, soul. Renew his spirit. Rescue him
>from the pain and suffering. Rescue him from his bitterness.
>Lord, touch his mind and let your peace be a recovering balm
>and oil that can mend every shattered place in his life. Turn
>his mind towards you so that he can know how much you long to
>repair the relationship that he walked away from years ago.
>Adoni, I don't know his story, but you do. Let him know that
>you wast nothing that is put into your hands. So, Father,
>please help him put all of his troubles, issues, worries, and
>needs into your hands. And then, God, please bless him with a
>strong encounter with your presence so that he'll know that it
>was by your love will and heart, that he will be made whole. I
>submit this prayer and petition to you in the name of my
>Savior Jesus Christ, Amen.
>
>
>
>.
>.
>
>“It was the evidence from science and history that prompted
>me to abandon my atheism and become a Christian.” — Lee
>Strobel, The Case for Christ

rather than engaging in a logical discussion, you pull out the mystery god shield. you don't answer questions directly, you'll change subjects, or just pull out the shield as if there's no discussion to be had cuz god.

we get your belief system and I'd say most don't have issue with how you believe. but do have issue because that becomes your main rational with no other reasoning.

and when you throw out "I'll pray for you" type stuff, you're getting out of the argument. its insulting and dismissive to those that are trying to have a conversation. like you're saying god exist whether we believe it or not and its the be all end all. its not.

Y'all buy those labels, I was born supreme

It's not about getting out of an argument. It's not about getting out of a debate or escaping a conflict.

I pray for a lot of people regularly about many issues, concerns and subjects. You think it's easy to pray for people that pursue you in conflict or that mean you harm, or are disrespectful. It's actually not an easy task. One has to be sincere and intentional. I actually mean every word in my prayer concerning Cold Truth. I even prayed for him when i got up this morning before i left my bedroom. I'm actually concerned for him, but since this place is so used to people being mean spirited and the debate focused many folks can't believe genuine concern.

So, again, my prayer wasn't about avoiding dialogue. It was about praying for someone that is hurting.


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“It was the evidence from science and history that prompted me to abandon my atheism and become a Christian.” — Lee Strobel, The Case for Christ

which does make it easy. its not for him at all. you're choosing to do that prayer. you may think it is, but its more about you thinking you're doing the right thing because you see him as hurting.

people aren't 'hurting' because they have diff thoughts or beliefs than yours. that's an unfair judgement. there's more than one way to live.

Y'all buy those labels, I was born supreme

so why would anyone be offended or not expect him to use prayer when being attacked..

Especially in a post like this?

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

that's part of who he is. my point was that those prayers are for his sake. they make him feel better. CT likely doesn't care about and won't get any benefits from it.

Y'all buy those labels, I was born supreme

>that's part of who he is. my point was that those prayers are
>for his sake. they make him feel better. CT likely doesn't
>care about and won't get any benefits from it.
>

First, you're assuming and your assumptions are incorrect. You could have easily had asked me a question, but you have chosen to pull your answers out of the sky. And they are wrong.

The prayer was not for me, nor was it about boosting my feel good needs. That's not how prayer works. When Jesus prayed it was never for his need to feel good. When Jesus taught the apostles how to model prayer it was not to help them feel good. My prayer was for the Lord to hear and to take action for the benefit go Cold Truth.

Nothin more.






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“It was the evidence from science and history that prompted me to abandon my atheism and become a Christian.” — Lee Strobel, The Case for Christ

I usually just lurk in these posts, but you are coming off arrogant and honestly in need of attention.

This wasn't an apology thread. You tried to sell it like that, but it isn't. Re-read it. Re-read it in a humble and open-minded way. Put yourself in others shoes. This thread was some bullshit.

You're praying for CT? Cool. Why not keep that to yourself?

You really can't see that "I pray for him everyday" is weird at best, not to mention condescending and arrogant? Even at that, why publicly declare it?

You aren't using the "I pray for you" to get out of an argument/debate?...okay.

But you don't engage in those debates in good faith otherwise...so why do engage at all?


Maybe you don't mean it this way, but you really come off like you think you are better than CT (or whoever) because of your religion.

Bragging that you pray for him doesn't help that.


Honestly? You should probably just pump the breaks on trying to bring your religion in here. If you were truly humble and secure about your religion, you wouldn't have a problem doing that.


You often come off like you wear your religion like a badge of honor...and are also too arrogant to realize not everyone is impressed. Check it at the door. Pray for people in private. Truly be humble. Etc.


That being said, I think others around here should ignore you and stop giving you this kind of attention. Maybe that will help you to back off on bringing it up so much.

how I manage my conversations or prayer life. You don't get the righ to determine my motives. You don't get the right to determine how I practice my faith and when. You can speculate all you want, but you can't tell me when to pray or how to pray.

You haven't been on this board long enough to remember that I use to write my prayers out on this board for people all the time. If you have then you wouldn't have made such a Judgmental statement.

I'm not going to defend anything to you and if you don't like my post then you can simply pass by or ask a simple honest questiosn and we can go from there.

In fact, I promote the practice of public prayers in my book.

https://www.amazon.com/Prayvolution-Start-Prayer-Revolution-Today/dp/0692801324




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“It was the evidence from science and history that prompted me to abandon my atheism and become a Christian.” — Lee Strobel, The Case for Christ

See how long before I break, but I'll give that a go.

Post is free game though.

Everything you said was surgically accurate.

https://chriswind.bandcamp.com/track/massage

"You can take an African out of Africa, but you can't take Africa out of the African"
Afro-Americana/Afro-Caribbana/Afro-Latino unite. We are ALL Black!

He's being challenged.

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"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

He just so happened to create a room filled with rakes, and then turned out the goddamned lights.

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"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

https://giphy.com/gifs/whats-rake-barnes-8JbMnRHcDVH3O

--- praying for peace, love, and power

>He's being challenged.


He's being challenged via attack or vice versa.
Very first reply accuses his apology of being contrite and "presenting the same old, disingenuous, insincere Case." These are statements of opinion because no one knows what the man is feeling. Presenting them as fact is an accusatory attack and exactly what he's talking about in the OP. Anybody using their whole brain can see that what the man said is telling us he doesn't wanna do this hostile back-n-forth shit anymore. **And even if all CT wanted to do was challenge him, you're kidding yourself if you think there wasn't a way to do it that was more conducive to a civil dialog that wouldn't immediately turn hostile.** I know CT's response already "AT WHAT SECTION OF MY RESPONSE DID I INTRODUCE NAMECALLING OR SNARK? TECHNICALLY THIS IS FACTUALLY INACCURATE AND NOT SUPPORTED BY SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE!!!" If you're only using your left brain, you're an idiot... or perhaps autistic. Seek help tho either way.

When Case attempted to dead it, Cold Truth antagonized him (same old, antagonistic, can't-let-it-go Cold Truth) as he always does, because if you don't type an essay in response to him, you didn't really mean anything you said! Ignore him and it's "oh we all know why you didn't address me!!" Do that to him and it's "Oh u salty I didn't respond!" lol. The guy is impossible, and folks cosign him going at Case simply because most of us aren't religious or outright think Christianity is hogwash. It ain't no reason to act like CT tho.

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Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

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“It was the evidence from science and history that prompted me to abandon my atheism and become a Christian.” — Lee Strobel, The Case for Christ

I actually was gonna leave a comment on this post but got sidetracked by some of the BS I saw scrolling past the other comments.
Anyway, I was gonna say that nobody on here is perfect, and some of the main ppl antagonizing you exhibit as many, if not more issues than you do. Most of us are just trying to do and be the best we can with whatever life we have. Of course I'm not telling you anything new, but I just wanted to say that.
I just don't think you had a reason to type and hit 'send' on the OP unless you felt wrong or humbled and apologetic. I also don't see anything wrong with your apology... even the part where you said you don't respond well to certain behaviors. The line before that, you admitted to being rude and stubborn yourself. I actually read responses on here, so I've seen evidence of what you said in the OP. People do often approach you with unnecessary hostility, and you have indeed often responded in kind. That's not always what happens, but that's why it was preceded with the line that it was. That's the way I read it anyway. I also don't think it's just for you to have to take ALL the responsibility for the way interactions play out on here, so what you said was 100% fine with me, and I didn't come away from it feeling like you were being anything but sincere. Just one man's opinion.

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Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

>He's being challenged via attack or vice versa.
>Very first reply accuses his apology of being contrite and
>"presenting the same old, disingenuous, insincere Case."

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Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

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"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

If you don't think Cold Truth did that, not only in the very first reply here, but also many other times with Case, then I'll just agree to disagree with you on this point.

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Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

>then
>I'll just agree to disagree with you on this point.

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"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

>people aren't 'hurting' because they have diff thoughts or
>beliefs than yours. that's an unfair judgement. there's more
>than one way to live.

This is the part that he doesn't see as problematic.

>
>>people aren't 'hurting' because they have diff thoughts or
>>beliefs than yours.


Case didn't say this though. At least not that I've seen. If yall have proof that he did, I'll fall back off this point.
Otherwise, as I've said elsewhere in this post, CT could've approached him way differently if he was trying to have a civil dialogue. He wasn't though... and that kind of behavior more often than not does signal a person in pain or dealing with some kind of insecurity. At the very least, the person ain't in a good head space.

That said, if CT can accuse him of being disingenuous and insincere without yall's criticism, it's unjust of yall to criticize Case for saying he's hurting.

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Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

first you say he didn't say it. then you say its not fair that he did.

he did, in #27, say that he's prayed because CT is hurt. my stance remains the same.

CT can be heavy handed and LOQUACIOUS lol, but does have valid points. he's antagonistic at times. however, I appreciate that he counters Case and asks for more than just faith for Case's reasoning.

Y'all buy those labels, I was born supreme

>however, I appreciate that
>he counters Case and asks for more than just faith for Case's
>reasoning.

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"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

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“It was the evidence from science and history that prompted me to abandon my atheism and become a Christian.” — Lee Strobel, The Case for Christ

I'm saying that I appreciate the counter points as much as I appreciate how others, including you, approach things.

you see no issue with bringing your faith into most of your dialogue here. I have no issue with someone bringing a different point of view. with that said, you've made posts without faith matters and someone will usually throw some jabs at you. that's unnecessary.

Y'all buy those labels, I was born supreme

to make sure that I understood your point better.
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“It was the evidence from science and history that prompted me to abandon my atheism and become a Christian.” — Lee Strobel, The Case for Christ

>first you say he didn't say it. then you say its not fair
>that he did.


No, I'm saying Case said he was hurting but he didn't give a reason why he said that. I'm asking if you've seen him say or imply that CT is "'hurting' because he has diff thoughts or beliefs than his own." That was your accusation, and that's what I'm saying Case *didn't* say... at least not that I've seen.



>CT can be heavy handed and LOQUACIOUS lol, but does have valid
>points. he's antagonistic at times. however, I appreciate that
>he counters Case and asks for more than just faith for Case's
>reasoning.


This reeks of "Yeah! Get the religious guy!" but that's just my view of it, knowing it's bound to be a circular argument since Case's very holy book calls for him to "walk by faith and not by sight." Anyway, Case is addressing you above. I'll let you speak to him about your comments.

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>Case didn't say this though. At least not that I've seen. If
>yall have proof that he did, I'll fall back off this point

Except he did. He decided that CT needs prayer and is hurting. Mostly, it seems, b/c he doesn't have the capacity to have a meaningfully substantive exchange with him. This is Case's default setting. There are 2 posts on the 1st page right now -- this one and the one on abortion -- where that behavior is on full display.

>Otherwise, as I've said elsewhere in this post, CT could've
>approached him way differently if he was trying to have a
>civil dialogue.

:-/. I mean... I guess. But maybe that wasn't his intent? Or, even if it were, Case's exchanges on any number of topics where he evokes God/the bible are very rarely intellectually sound so I understand, I guess, the frustration, when he decides to pray for you instead of answering question.

He wasn't though... and that kind of behavior
>more often than not does signal a person in pain or dealing
>with some kind of insecurity. At the very least, the person
>ain't in a good head space.
>
>That said, if CT can accuse him of being disingenuous and
>insincere without yall's criticism, it's unjust of yall to
>criticize Case for saying he's hurting.

No. Here's the thing. I think CT's approach can sometimes be a bit heavy-handed, but there's precious little I fundamentally disagree with that he has said or countered Case with. Case *is* being disingenuous and so I agree with CT's overall message. But this isn't just about this post. This is Case's M.O. He doesn't even see the hypocrisy in what he says because he doesn't understand what that means. You can disagree. He certainly will, but Case makes it hard to ride for him, even if his POV is different, b/c he won't ever acknowledge that oftentimes, he's simply out of his depth.

... he *himself* used to be super religious. And that only when he started asking critical questions about his faith did he start to chip away at all the hypocrisy and contradictions w/in said faith.

So for what seems like years now he's challenged Case w/those questions he presumably asked himself over the course of however long it took for him to drop religion altogether. And he's never suggested that Case should drop his faith. He's only challenged his thinking, and in every single instance I've seen he's run into the same dismissive, condescending roadblocks from Case each time. It always devolves to "I'll pray for you" or some similar patronizing platitude, like we saw here.

In other words, CT challenged himself before he challenged Case, and from what I've ever seen of their exchanges he's only ever asked Case to do the same self-reflection before it devolves.


>No. Here's the thing. I think CT's approach can sometimes be a
>bit heavy-handed, but there's precious little I fundamentally
>disagree with that he has said or countered Case with. Case
>*is* being disingenuous and so I agree with CT's overall
>message. But this isn't just about this post. This is Case's
>M.O. He doesn't even see the hypocrisy in what he says because
>he doesn't understand what that means. You can disagree. He
>certainly will, but Case makes it hard to ride for him, even
>if his POV is different, b/c he won't ever acknowledge that
>oftentimes, he's simply out of his depth.

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"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

Other people have to do the same.

Funny thing is I used to be super religious too... was raised in it and adopted it as my own until I ultimately questioned it and left it behind in my adulthood. As someone who's been there and done that, you'd think CT would know by now that trying to force people out of their religion is one of the best ways to kill dialogue or even offend them. I used to think it was my duty to free the world from religion too. I was an immature 23 yr old tho. How old is CT again?

You say he asks Case to challenge his own beliefs before the convo devolves. The reality is that asking Case to do that without him wanting to do it is the devolution itself. Of all people, someone who's been super religious before (especially Christian) should know that.

The undercurrent of this discussion is that you really dislike Case's views, so any level of disrespect or attack on him or his character isn't even viewed as an attack by you.


>... he *himself* used to be super religious. And that only
>when he started asking critical questions about his faith did
>he start to chip away at all the hypocrisy and contradictions
>w/in said faith.
>
>So for what seems like years now he's challenged Case w/those
>questions he presumably asked himself over the course of
>however long it took for him to drop religion altogether. And
>he's never suggested that Case should drop his faith. He's
>only challenged his thinking, and in every single instance
>I've seen he's run into the same dismissive, condescending
>roadblocks from Case each time. It always devolves to "I'll
>pray for you" or some similar patronizing platitude, like we
>saw here.
>
>In other words, CT challenged himself before he challenged
>Case, and from what I've ever seen of their exchanges he's
>only ever asked Case to do the same self-reflection before it
>devolves.
>

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Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

Your point about giving others room to challenge themselves when they're ready is well-taken. Problem is that Case, more often than not, initiates these conversations himself. This is a public message board. He knows damn well by now the type of reaction he will get posting his religious messages here. Any devolution can be avoided by, you know, not posting that type of stuff here. Soon as he posts it here he should know by now that he is opening himself up to the types of challenges and responses he gets. If he doesn't want to be challenged he should keep these messages away from this board, clearly.


>Other people have to do the same.
>
>Funny thing is I used to be super religious too... was raised
>in it and adopted it as my own until I ultimately questioned
>it and left it behind in my adulthood. As someone who's been
>there and done that, you'd think CT would know by now that
>trying to force people out of their religion is one of the
>best ways to kill dialogue or even offend them. I used to
>think it was my duty to free the world from religion too. I
>was an immature 23 yr old tho. How old is CT again?
>
>You say he asks Case to challenge his own beliefs before the
>convo devolves. The reality is that asking Case to do that
>without him wanting to do it is the devolution itself. Of all
>people, someone who's been super religious before (especially
>Christian) should know that.
>
>The undercurrent of this discussion is that yall really
>dislike Case, so any level of disrespect or attack on him or
>his character isn't even seen as an attack by yall.

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"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

>Your point about giving others room to challenge themselves
>when they're ready is well-taken. Problem is that Case, more
>often than not, initiates these conversations himself. This is
>a public message board. He knows damn well by now the type of
>reaction he will get posting his religious messages here. Any
>devolution can be avoided by, you know, not posting that type
>of stuff here. Soon as he posts it here he should know by now
>that he is opening himself up to the types of challenges and
>responses he gets. If he doesn't want to be challenged he
>should keep these messages away from this board, clearly.



I mean, to some degree I get that, but there are alotta posts on here that tank or don't get many replies at all, b/c ppl don't care about those topics. No lie, I always wonder why people care so much about Case's religious posts... they always do mad numbers. Ppl can easily ignore Case's religious posts if they're not into that kind of thing. I'm assuming that him making posts like the teens saved at sea is what you mean by him initiating conversation.

Put it this way: I made a post about a boxing match in OK Sports. Some dude came in saying boxing sucks. I found that odd and told him he was in the wrong post since we were there to talk about something he only wanted to trash. It's odd to be there if you flat out abhor the topic... most people understand that and agree. You don't see ppl popping up in Raptors vs Warriors posts simply to go on about why and how basketball sucks. Maybe it happens with religion because presenting logical arguments to religious ppl is an easy way to feel superior, since religious ppl operate on faith. Big fish in a small pond Syndrome. Alotta people need to look down on the next person to feel like somebody. Or maybe people feel like Christian thinking is a threat to societal progress, so challenging Case One will save the world. Either way, he could easily be ignored and allowed to congregate with those who believe as he does. Everything will be fine if that happens.

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... naturally a lot more polarizing than posts about boxing or basketball matchups. So of course they're gonna do numbers. Especially since most, if not all, of us have or have had a personal stake in these subjects and social issues. So of course those posts aren't gonna go wood. People don't abhor the *topic* they abhor certain positions on the topic and are passionate about them.

So again, if Case is gonna initiate posts about religion being taught in schools, and being anti-choice, I feel comfortable speaking for everyone in saying that we support his right to do so ... but he should expect to then be challenged on these unpopular positions early and often. You call these instances "attacks" on Case. I consider them just keeping religious folks intellectually honest when it comes to a subject (faith) that, if *we're* being honest (and to put it mildly), has caused mankind a hell of a lot of fucking trouble throughout history.


>I mean, to some degree I get that, but there are alotta posts
>on here that tank or don't get many replies at all, b/c ppl
>don't care about those topics. No lie, I always wonder why
>people care so much about Case's religious posts... they
>always do mad numbers. Ppl can easily ignore Case's religious
>posts if they're not into that kind of thing. I'm assuming
>that him making posts like the teens saved at sea is what you
>mean by him initiating conversation.
>
>Put it this way: I made a post about a boxing match in OK
>Sports. Some dude came in saying boxing sucks. I found that
>odd and told him he was in the wrong post since we were there
>to talk about something he only wanted to trash. It's odd to
>be there if you flat out abhor the topic... most people
>understand that and agree. You don't see ppl popping up in
>Raptors vs Warriors posts simply to go on about why and how
>basketball sucks. Maybe it happens with religion because
>presenting logical arguments to religious ppl is an easy way
>to feel superior, since religious ppl operate on faith. Big
>fish in a small pond Syndrome. Alotta people need to look down
>on the next person to feel like somebody. Or maybe people
>feel like Christian thinking is a threat to societal progress,
>so challenging Case One will save the world. Either way, he
>could easily be ignored and allowed to congregate with those
>who believe as he does. Everything will be fine if that
>happens.

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"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

What stake do people have in that topic? Is the rest of OKP posting from the middle of the Mediterranean? Fill me in lol.
Abortion and Bible study in schools, sure... polarizing, and the discussion there is of course expected. I wouldn't expect such posts not to be huge. But it's not just polarizing topics where people show up to attack/ keep Case intellectually honest or whichever we call it. I realize some of those posts only do numbers b/c the same person consistently shows up to for lengthy arguments, but still... that person is kinda why we're even having this discussion. Ignoring alotta Case's posts is an option. I get it, anyone can comment on anything and all, so I guess if ppl decide that religious posts won't exist without challenge and ridicule, then others will decide that the ridicule should be ridiculed, which will also be ridiculed, ad infinitum. I'd just like for people to get honest about why religion causes them to act this way even if dude is just on posting about a testimony from a couple of 19 yr olds.

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He has to...

Folks could simply ignore his post on religion but they don’t for obvious reasons.

and I will admit Case has built up a huge following of haters. It’s pretty impressive and sad at the same time.

No one man should have all that power.

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TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

>He has to...
>
>Folks could simply ignore his post on religion but they
>don’t for obvious reasons.
>
>and I will admit Case has built up a huge following of haters.
>It’s pretty impressive and sad at the same time.
>
>No one man should have all that power.
>
>

Most of the hate stems from people that claim to love diversity, inclusion, and dislike groupthink, seem to hate the fact that I don't think like them. All of this is rooted in my faithbased world view regarding Sin, Marrige, Homosexuality, and now Abortion. But Suprise! Christianity is my theological make-up and life base. ALL of my Friends know that I'm in ministry and they are cool with disagreeing with me on a myriad of subjects but not one of them attack me. We argue ideas and moral positions, but we don't ever get personal. We keep it 100% without being nasty and hateful.





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“It was the evidence from science and history that prompted me to abandon my atheism and become a Christian.” — Lee Strobel, The Case for Christ

>Most of the hate stems from people that claim to love diversity,
>inclusion, and dislike groupthink, seem to hate the fact that I
>don't think like them.

They always say shit like that. May want to rethink that statement haha.

Anyway Christianity is, like, the definition of groupthink. You're one of over 2 billion, the largest cult in the world.

And the "hate" stems from people who find the theological worldview to be largely contradictory and hateful. You said in a post below that you never pushed your worldview on anyone, but the problem is that if these archaic views aren't challenged, religious folks get in positions to make decisions for the masses and the "theological worldview" takes precedent over the well-being of women, gay people, etc. So it may be relatively "harmless" in the context of the OKP message board but if you were ever in a position to make decisions for the country it would no longer be so harmless.

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"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

>He has to...
>
>Folks could simply ignore his post on religion but they
>don’t for obvious reasons.

Case could simply choose not to post his religious propaganda here, knowing exactly the kind of reactions those posts prompt ... but he does for obvious reasons. He either craves the attention or he's a troll. Maybe both. Both of which are perfectly fine, for the record. He can do what he wants. But the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. It's pretty disingenuous for him to keep doing the same thing, then crying about getting the reactions he gets every single time.


>and I will admit Case has built up a huge following of haters.
>It’s pretty impressive and sad at the same time.
>
>No one man should have all that power.

He spends a lot of time needling people, whether it's the articles/posts themselves or the way he subsequently responds to folks in those posts. Case in point is his dialogue below w/atruhead. Case basically played e-psychologist for the dude. I thought he was a preacher not a therapist.

Point being he knows damn well what he's doing.

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"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

Kids lost at sea ? 19 year olds ? You lost me bro.


>What stake do people have in that topic? Is the rest of OKP
>posting from the middle of the Mediterranean? Fill me in
>lol.
>Abortion and Bible study in schools, sure... polarizing, and
>the discussion there is of course expected. I wouldn't expect
>such posts not to be huge. But it's not just polarizing
>topics where people show up to attack/ keep Case
>intellectually honest or whichever we call it. I realize some
>of those posts only do numbers b/c the same person
>consistently shows up to for lengthy arguments, but still...
>that person is kinda why we're even having this discussion.
>Ignoring alotta Case's posts is an option. I get it, anyone
>can comment on anything and all, so I guess if ppl decide that
>religious posts won't exist without challenge and ridicule,
>then others will decide that the ridicule should be ridiculed,
>which will also be ridiculed, ad infinitum. I'd just like for
>people to get honest about why religion causes them to act
>this way even if dude is just on posting about a testimony
>from a couple of 19 yr olds.

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"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=13330312&mesg_id=13330312&page=5

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Case and CT have a history. Case posted that with the header "...realize that 'god is real'" knowing exactly who'd show up in response.

And then he fed into it. That proves both our points in equal parts haha.

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"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

>
>>Case didn't say this though. At least not that I've seen.
>If
>>yall have proof that he did, I'll fall back off this point
>
>Except he did. He decided that CT needs prayer and is hurting.
>Mostly, it seems, b/c he doesn't have the capacity to have a
>meaningfully substantive exchange with him. This is Case's
>default setting. There are 2 posts on the 1st page right now
>-- this one and the one on abortion -- where that behavior is
>on full display.



I already addressed this in 109.



>>Otherwise, as I've said elsewhere in this post, CT could've
>>approached him way differently if he was trying to have a
>>civil dialogue.
>
>:-/. I mean... I guess. But maybe that wasn't his intent? Or,
>even if it were, Case's exchanges on any number of topics
>where he evokes God/the bible are very rarely intellectually
>sound so I understand, I guess, the frustration, when he
>decides to pray for you instead of answering question.


Well first, CT didn't ask any question in replies 1 or 3. He made accusations and attacked Case's character.
Furthermore, you said ..."Maybe that (civility) wasn't his intent" <- THANK YOU
This is actually a level of honesty I wish the other Case dissenters had in here. When everyone can read a clear attack on Case's character yet deny that it's indeed an attack, it's pretty clear that yall just have alotta disdain for the guy. At least what you're saying amounts to "Yeah I guess CT was harsh and possibly not even attempting to be civil, but Case deserves it for the way he's interacted with people on here!" And that seems to be where a few others are coming from while pretending not to be.




>He wasn't though... and that kind of behavior
>>more often than not does signal a person in pain or dealing
>>with some kind of insecurity. At the very least, the person
>>ain't in a good head space.
>>
>>That said, if CT can accuse him of being disingenuous and
>>insincere without yall's criticism, it's unjust of yall to
>>criticize Case for saying he's hurting.
>
>No. Here's the thing. I think CT's approach can sometimes be a
>bit heavy-handed, but there's precious little I fundamentally
>disagree with that he has said or countered Case with. Case
>*is* being disingenuous and so I agree with CT's overall
>message. But this isn't just about this post. This is Case's
>M.O. He doesn't even see the hypocrisy in what he says because
>he doesn't understand what that means. You can disagree. He
>certainly will, but Case makes it hard to ride for him, even
>if his POV is different, b/c he won't ever acknowledge that
>oftentimes, he's simply out of his depth.



And here's why I said what I said initially and clarified in reply 109.
You agree with CT, ok fine. But neither of you can determine that Case's apology is insincere. You can only speculate. Yall saying that because he prayed in response to an attack on his character? AND saying he's not making good on what he said in the OP. He actually was making good on the OP by responding with "civility and love" as best he knew how, considering CT was never gonna let up until Case agreed with him, which Case should NOT, because CT's critique of his apology wasn't even legit imo, as I said in reply 96.

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I don't care about what CT did or didn't do. My original position stands. His apology was disingenuous and that has nothing to do with anyone but Case. And considering almost everyone else took the same thing from it that I did, I hardly think it's *us*. Bottom line? I think most people's fundamental issue with Case has very little to do with his beliefs, and has everything to do with his posture around discussions that are very clearly out of his depth.

I think most would approach him with a much defter hand if he simply said, 'I don't know, I just believe' because that, I think, most of us can understand/relate to.

>I don't care about what CT did or didn't do. My original
>position stands. His apology was disingenuous and that has
>nothing to do with anyone but Case. And considering almost
>everyone else took the same thing from it that I did, I hardly
>think it's *us*. Bottom line? I think most people's
>fundamental issue with Case has very little to do with his
>beliefs, and has everything to do with his posture around
>discussions that are very clearly out of his depth.



Aite fam. Folks' fundamental issue with Case probably varies, but I haven't interviewed all his haters. All I'll say is that the majority of OKP has been wrong about many things on many occasions, so this is a shaky place to find comfort in numbers.



>I think most would approach him with a much defter hand if he
>simply said, 'I don't know, I just believe' because that, I
>think, most of us can understand/relate to.


I hear ya.

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There's a head-patting, 'you poor sheep' tone to it that is incredibly dismissive and offensive. And then he 'apologizes' and does the very same thing in. the. apology.

It's super disingenuous.

>rather than engaging in a logical discussion, you pull out
>the mystery god shield. you don't answer questions directly,
>you'll change subjects, or just pull out the shield as if
>there's no discussion to be had cuz god.
>
>we get your belief system and I'd say most don't have issue
>with how you believe. but do have issue because that becomes
>your main rational with no other reasoning.
>
>and when you throw out "I'll pray for you" type stuff, you're
>getting out of the argument. its insulting and dismissive to
>those that are trying to have a conversation. like you're
>saying god exist whether we believe it or not and its the be
>all end all. its not.

You don't get the right to determine my motives, heart, or decisions. Save the gaslighting as a means of trying to manipulate my character and save the passive ad-Hominem as a means to justify your goal.

Ask a direct question if you want to learn something about me, but save the nonsense.


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“It was the evidence from science and history that prompted me to abandon my atheism and become a Christian.” — Lee Strobel, The Case for Christ

Exhibit A:
http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=13323081&mesg_id=13323081&listing_type=search#13323377
There's this gem where you beg a Christian to "witness" to you just so you spread your own gospel of non-belief.

Exhibit B:
http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=13330312&mesg_id=13330312&page=5
The man just posted an article and you and a host of others came in with snark.

Exhibit C:
http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=13331553&mesg_id=13331553&page=2
Case made that post for people on a "walk of faith" (which you have very LOUDLY admitted that you aren't) but you're there in the 2nd reply with snark.

Exhibit D:
http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=13331687&mesg_id=13331687&listing_type=search#13331843
You get off on this kind of shit

What I've seen lately is Case having online church and you showing up to church to say you don't believe when you can just walk by the church like all the other sensible people who don't wanna attend. We get it. You don't believe... a lot of us don't, but you go about it in the most immature way of any of us.

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>Exhibit A:
>http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=13323081&mesg_id=13323081&listing_type=search#13323377
>There's this gem where you beg a Christian to "witness" to you
>just so you spread your own gospel of non-belief.

The real gem here is your clear mischaracterization of what actually happened. But hey, it's much easier to make a point when you remove all the nuances

>Exhibit B:
>http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=13330312&mesg_id=13330312&page=5
>The man just posted an article and you and a host of others
>came in with snark.

He "just posted" a ridiculous article, using a header that made a definitive claim.

People responded with all the reasons why the claim, from premise to conclusion, was riddled with problems.

Your problem is what, exactly?

>Exhibit C:
>http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=13331553&mesg_id=13331553&page=2
>Case made that post for people on a "walk of faith" (which you
>have very LOUDLY admitted that you aren't) but you're there in
>the 2nd reply with snark.

Snark?

I asked very direct, very specific questions that were absolutely in line with the premise of the topic, based on things within the bible that directly contradict the premise.

That you refer to clear, direct, questions using the book upon which that entire religion is based as "snark" is asinine.


>Exhibit D:
>http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=13331687&mesg_id=13331687&listing_type=search#13331843

>You get off on this kind of shit

LMAO are you serious? I "get off" on.... a completely unrealistic hypothetical that amounts to the rough outline of a comedy sketch?

You were reaching before. This is just you flailing at this point.

It's sad, actually.

You posted 4 exhibits that were all pretty poor, and closed with something that doesn't even qualify as bottom of the barrel.

In other words: you got nothing.

>What I've seen lately is Case having online church and you
>showing up to church to say you don't believe when you can
>just walk by the church like all the other sensible people who
>don't wanna attend.

But this isn't church, it's a message board.

He wants private church where he can preach to the converted, he can have private church in a private group on FB or a group text or any number of other options.

But he doesn't. He chooses this forum for it. Which means we're all free to show up.

>We get it. You don't believe... a lot of
>us don't, but you go about it in the most immature way of any
>of us.

Right... by... asking very clear and direct questions regarding the premises, conclusions, and statements he posts.

Your caping is all good. You just don't do a good job of it.

Since you go above and beyond in calling Case out, I just wondered how you'd respond to the same.

Carry on.

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