*SMH* @ Usher releasing a song about signing divorce papers as his first single. Who the fuck wants to sing along with that shit. LOL @ the fact I can't hear it without thinking about his vocal coach. Pre-emptive *SMH* @ anyone comparing it to Here My Dear.

It amazes me to think the chick who debuted with this horrible performance http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JS2R88vT04o is selling out shows these days. To her credit her 'performance' has approved a lot, but people talking about her pop genius being the key to her success are just wrong. Not to get Vex ID with it but some artist are not meant to fail. Gaga is one. I've said it before, but if any other artist had performed like that, and then did the sorry numbers her album started out with they would have been dropped within a month.

Last one is for maxxx - Luther pretty much owns the quiet storm across the nation, and yet I wonder if his catalog sales reflect that. Part of me thinks not, and I can't help but wonder why.
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I talked a lot of shit in the 00's
Watch me back it up in the 10's
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let lady gaga grow a bit...

lol@her banner being right under this post.

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not even.

fuck you.

she met with the queen of england and shit.

I mean yeah she'll need a follow up, but considering how they jumped behind this one I can't imagine it not doing fine.

*I'm assuming you get the madonna kiss reference*
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Watch me back it up in the 10's
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you guys always talking about how artists dont know their musical history should be loving her.

which i do. the og post wasn't hate though i can see how it may be interpreted that way. i genuinely respect that she's gotten this far from grind hard work and distinguishing her self. the point of the og post was that she got more of an industry chance than any artist imaginable and that's not by accident. i mean peeop the opening of the video clip i posted, she reps everything the industry wants in that opening phrase about pop not being about the low brow. she is the success model for major label dependence that the industry needs the public to believe is necessary to save its own ass. none of that is really about her as an artist though.

as i said below i respect her because i think she is genuine and she grinds hard for hers. that doesn't mean i have to love her music though.
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I talked a lot of shit in the 00's
Watch me back it up in the 10's
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i really hope that in the 10s we can stop talking so much about the industry (no dis to you). not that it isnt important to be aware of all the behind the scenes machinations, but while i wish gagas own music didnt sound quite so 'unavoidable' (its still got that loud blaring quality the production), she does seem to be much more about artistry to say shes just another industry puppet. the industry might be getting what it wants, but it doesnt mean shes not getting what she wants too. nor that pop isnt getting what it needs via someone like her either. gaga is someone that seems to have a pretty distinct idea of what shes about, what she wants to offer, and where she wants to go. there needs to be more artists like that in modern pop music. plus shes a proper popSTAR, who acts, talks and walks (and performs, most importantly) like one. we need more of her sort.

she had a less than stellar debut performance and her album took months to catch on, all the while she was getting constant label support in an era where people are dropped after their first week numbers. you may not want to talk about the industry but directly or indirectly that is what I'm talking about here.
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she is still getting full backing, but is that such a bad thing? the label seems to believe in her and thinks she has potential, which is pretty rare these days, so its good to see.

im not sure what your problem with her label support is, other than that you think shes being backed cos you think shes giving the industry what it wants? (which i would disagree with, as it would be much easier for her to be a lot less interesting than she is)

yes shes a pop artist, which is what the industry wants, but shes doing something a lot more interesting with her platform than most other pop artists, and more than a lot of left field or underground artists too, for my money.

The single went gold like a year later. The album took 9 months to go gold. A whole grip of money went into promoting it when it just wasn't moving like that. It was decided she would succeed. If I were Vex ID I'd be getting mad conspiratorial with it, but you don't even have to go that far to realize she had a helping hand on the inside.

There are a whole lot of talented artists that could do just as good if not better if they were ever in a situation where a label was behind them that much.
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Watch me back it up in the 10's
http://avanturb.com

>The single went gold like a year later. The album took 9
>months to go gold. A whole grip of money went into promoting
>it when it just wasn't moving like that. It was decided she
>would succeed. If I were Vex ID I'd be getting mad
>conspiratorial with it, but you don't even have to go that far
>to realize she had a helping hand on the inside.
>
>There are a whole lot of talented artists that could do just
>as good if not better if they were ever in a situation where a
>label was behind them that much.

sure.
it sucks.
i sympathise.
but thats just the industry for you.
they back an artist or a record when they believe it has the potential to be a hit, and they always have done.
and in gagas case theyre right.
cos we all know that labels have backed other artists similarly and not gotten the same result.
and i know ive said it before, but i can think of worse mass market pop artists to back.
way worse.
i dont really have a problem with labels like interscope backing le gaga. im more concerned that they only go for the big draws now, and theres less room for smaller niche market artists to get a chance.
but thats the industry in the 00s/10s for you.

>but thats just the industry for you.
>they back an artist or a record when they believe it has the
>potential to be a hit, and they always have done.
>and in gagas case theyre right.

While it may have had the potential to be a hit, it wasn't. It failed. But then they made it a hit. Big difference.

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>While it may have had the potential to be a hit, it wasn't.
>It failed. But then they made it a hit. Big difference.


Her label was not responsible for Gaga blowing up....They were not even putting money into that album...But when they saw the following she was getting on the gay club circuit and the fact that influential folks like Perez Hilton were bigging her up on a daily, they smartly re-worked the album...

From what I gather, it was Ga Ga's persistence and her own willingness to cultivate a cult following through endless club dates that made Interscope take notice....


murph71

>Her label was not responsible for Gaga blowing up....They were
>not even putting money into that album...

Uh yes they were. There was a serious promotional campaign to get her out there.

>But when they saw the
>following she was getting on the gay club circuit and the fact
>that influential folks like Perez Hilton were bigging her up
>on a daily, they smartly re-worked the album...

This is still two months after the first promo wave which failed. And would it surprise you to know that Perez was 'encouraged' to keep bigging her up.

>From what I gather, it was Ga Ga's persistence and her own
>willingness to cultivate a cult following through endless club
>dates that made Interscope take notice....

I'll give you every thing but the Interscope take notice. Interscope was paying to keep her on the road and take her show to the next level and the next level and the level after that. Wasn't coming out of her pocket. It's actually a rare case where there was artist development, even if it was of her own design, that simply is a rarity for this market.

Also you have to know Gaga wasn't a random act picked up off the street. She was well connected by the time her album came about, and what I'm alluding to is that those connects were the reason why she was going to be a star.

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>>Her label was not responsible for Gaga blowing up....They
>were
>>not even putting money into that album...
>
>Uh yes they were. There was a serious promotional campaign to
>get her out there.
>
>>But when they saw the
>>following she was getting on the gay club circuit and the
>fact
>>that influential folks like Perez Hilton were bigging her
>up
>>on a daily, they smartly re-worked the album...
>
>This is still two months after the first promo wave which
>failed. And would it surprise you to know that Perez was
>'encouraged' to keep bigging her up.
>
>>From what I gather, it was Ga Ga's persistence and her own
>>willingness to cultivate a cult following through endless
>club
>>dates that made Interscope take notice....
>
>I'll give you every thing but the Interscope take notice.
>Interscope was paying to keep her on the road and take her
>show to the next level and the next level and the level after
>that. Wasn't coming out of her pocket. It's actually a rare
>case where there was artist development, even if it was of her
>own design, that simply is a rarity for this market.
>
>Also you have to know Gaga wasn't a random act picked up off
>the street. She was well connected by the time her album came
>about, and what I'm alluding to is that those connects were
>the reason why she was going to be a star.


The problem with your thesis is you act like the support Interscope gave GaGa was an aberration....As u know, this is something the music biz used to do all the time...Today they will only do such a thing for either two reasons:

1) If the artist has a nitch or can't miss gimmick that needs to be exploited...

or...

2) If the artist has talent, their own vision and more importantly a built-in audience that can be cultivated....(As for Perez, it was well known that Interscope started paying him to promote Gaga...But that was way after he started to post about the girl's shows in the gay club circuit.....Interscope caught on after that....)

To me Gaga fits under the latter ^^^....all of GaGa's connects came from her own grind...Interscope only gave up the dough because they saw that that chick had already did the work...In other words, dropping money for her to perform at a small club that seats 300 people is not at all grandiose...

That GaGa broad had already been signed to a deal that didn't work out before Interscope...She was gaining a name in the industry for writing songs for other artists...Again, she had already laid the groundwork....

To me, you would be making a stronger case if this post was about Rihanna, who def would have been left for dead if it wasn't for Def Jam....GaGa on the other hand would have stayed on her underground grind until some label would have picked her up...Because labels are lazy as hell...lol...In 2010 they covet self-contained acts....And that was the selling point of that chick in the first place...




murph71

.

>To me, you would be making a stronger case if this post was
>about Rihanna, who def would have been left for dead if it
>wasn't for Def Jam.

While this is true for the breadth of her career, she did have a Top 10 single out the gate.

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Anyone acting like Gaga just came out of nowhere and didn't work hard and grind to get to where she is just doesn't know her story. Also, her internal battles with Interscope to remain in control of her sound and image have been pretty intense.

AYANA SOYINI
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New single "A Dancing Mood" available now on iTunes & Amazon. Written and produced by Ayana Soyini.

>Anyone acting like Gaga just came out of nowhere and didn't
>work hard and grind to get to where she is just doesn't know
>her story.

You know very well I didn't say this. The only point I stressed from jump was that for her album to receive over a year of promotion when the initial response saw sub par response is rare, and that there are other factors involved which allowed her window of opportunity to stay open that long. Yes part of it was her grind, but there was another part of it which was in the "it's not what you know but who you know" scheme of things. When you speak on her internal struggles with Interscope, it wasn't her voice alone that kept them on board. Every artist on a label is going to tell the higher ups to keep giving them a chance, but the higher artist aren't going to listen to every artist.

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I talked a lot of shit in the 00's
Watch me back it up in the 10's
http://avanturb.com

>You know very well I didn't say this. The only point I
>stressed from jump was that for her album to receive over a
>year of promotion when the initial response saw sub par
>response is rare, and that there are other factors involved
>which allowed her window of opportunity to stay open that
>long.

That's how the industry is suppossed to operate. That's what these major labels need to get back to doing on a regular basis. They are too quick to throw the baby out with the bathwater!


>Yes part of it was her grind, but there was another
>part of it which was in the "it's not what you know but who
>you know" scheme of things. When you speak on her internal
>struggles with Interscope, it wasn't her voice alone that kept
>them on board. Every artist on a label is going to tell the
>higher ups to keep giving them a chance, but the higher artist
>aren't going to listen to every artist.

You don't know her story...she got those connects from working her ass off by performing in every liitle hole in the wall club she could get booked at. She was also previously signed to two Universal affiliated labels (Akon's being the most notable). She did alot of songwriting for other artists and this is where she began to hone her Pop music sensibilities. The money used from her songwriting royalties helped her finance her own situation and kept her afloat. They gave her a chance because they saw how relentless she worked PLUS she had a proven track record of being a decent songwriter and she has an INCREDIBLY loyal fanbase who promoted the hell out of her and helped to push her to her current success. She earned her opportunity!

If you don't like her music that is one thing but you seem intent on trying to discredit her and that makes me question your motivations.

AYANA SOYINI
Artist/DJ/Producer
Khamouflage Productions
www.facebook.com/djayanasoyini
www.soundcloud.com/khamouflage
www.youtube.com/khamouflage

New single "A Dancing Mood" available now on iTunes & Amazon. Written and produced by Ayana Soyini.

I just don't like the implication that I'm not reasonable.

>>You know very well I didn't say this. The only point I
>>stressed from jump was that for her album to receive over a
>>year of promotion when the initial response saw sub par
>>response is rare, and that there are other factors involved
>>which allowed her window of opportunity to stay open that
>>long.
>
>That's how the industry is suppossed to operate. That's what
>these major labels need to get back to doing on a regular
>basis. They are too quick to throw the baby out with the
>bathwater!

I agree. That's the point I'm trying to exemplify with Gaga.

>You don't know her story...she got those connects

So you agree she got the connects right?

>They gave her a
>chance because they saw how relentless she worked PLUS she had
>a proven track record of being a decent songwriter and she has
>an INCREDIBLY loyal fanbase. She earned her opportunity!

Here's all I'm saying - in the market as it is (not as it should be) that opportunity would equal her deal and first wave of promotion. That first wave of promotion got the loyal fanbase to buy in but as loyal as they may have been they weren't MAJOR numbers. She didn't get the major numbers until she crossed outside of her loyal fanbase and it took months of the label staying behind her for that to happen. THAT is a rarity in this market. No more no less.

>If you don't like her music that is one thing but you seem
>intent on trying to discredit her and that makes me question
>your motivations.

Where did I discredit her. Throughout this post I've stated that despite my thoughts on her music I respect her grind and hard work. This is the only thing I'm taking issue with. It's somehow unreasonable to mention the fact that her success was aided by the consistent marketing (WARFARE) not just because of her talent.

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>I just don't like the implication that I'm not reasonable.

Okay.

>>You don't know her story...she got those connects
>
>So you agree she got the connects right?

It's coming across like you think that having connects is a bad thing. Once you are actively pursuing your career, eventually through networking, you will gain connects. You already know this as you have connects yourself. However, connects in and of itself are still not enough to guarantee success. The public has to take an interest in what you are presenting to them.

>Here's all I'm saying - in the market as it is (not as it
>should be) that opportunity would equal her deal and first
>wave of promotion. That first wave of promotion got the loyal
>fanbase to buy in but as loyal as they may have been they
>weren't MAJOR numbers.

During the first wave of promotion, she may not have gotten major numbers BUT it was enough for them to say hmmmm, we just may have something here.


>She didn't get the major numbers until
>she crossed outside of her loyal fanbase and it took months of
>the label staying behind her for that to happen. THAT is a
>rarity in this market. No more no less.

The only reason to sign to a major label is for the exact thing you just said. They have the resources to propel an artist into a realm of fame, popularity and success that is almost impossible to achieve on one's own or even with an indie. Some artists/bands sign to a major and nothing happens for them while some artists sign to the same label and blow up. In that sense, what happened with Gaga is par for the course. Either it will work or it won't. What's rare is to be able to achieve her current success *without* any major backing or connections.

>Where did I discredit her. Throughout this post I've stated
>that despite my thoughts on her music I respect her grind and
>hard work. This is the only thing I'm taking issue with.
>It's somehow unreasonable to mention the fact that her success
>was aided by the consistent marketing (WARFARE) not just
>because of her talent.

What's unreasonable is to think that without a sound business and marketing plan that you can somehow still achieve major success. That's not grounded in reality on any level! It looks to me like she has her shit together and that's what people who are looking to invest in musical acts are attracted to. They want a return on their investment in a reasonable amount of time and as an artist you either deliver that return or get discarded.

AYANA SOYINI
Artist/DJ/Producer
Khamouflage Productions
www.facebook.com/djayanasoyini
www.soundcloud.com/khamouflage
www.youtube.com/khamouflage

New single "A Dancing Mood" available now on iTunes & Amazon. Written and produced by Ayana Soyini.

>>So you agree she got the connects right?
>
>It's coming across like you think that having connects is a
>bad thing.

It's always something "coming across" when I post. Yeah I like eccentric left field shit and I post about it frequently hopefully adding some balance to The Lesson. But I like other shit too. A lot of it. And I can talk about it with objectivity. Yet when I try folk are quick to think I'm hating.

I've had my share of industry experiences and make no qualms about my opinion on those. But it lends itself to have some insight in these type of discussions, and that insight IMO allows me to make objective statements. If I'm talking out of my ass I usually say it. If I'm hating I'm saying it pretty clear. This is not one of those cases though. Just random thoughts I had while listening to commercial radio for the first time in almost three years.

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Watch me back it up in the 10's
http://avanturb.com

>It's always something "coming across" when I post. Yeah I
>like eccentric left field shit and I post about it frequently
>hopefully adding some balance to The Lesson. But I like other
>shit too. A lot of it. And I can talk about it with
>objectivity. Yet when I try folk are quick to think I'm
>hating.

I would chalk it up to the fact that the medium of communication we are using doesn't allow for one to see body language or hear vocal tone.

I have had a few cats on here accuse me of "coming at them" or "taking shots" simply because I dared to disagree with their strongly held opinions. Looking from a distance at this thread before I decided to reply, you are *seemingly* giving off a very intense energy toward those who share a different perspective. You even yelled at another boardie to "get the hell out of your thread" lol That was wild son!!! lol I can see how that person in the future may completely disregard your opinion...which will lead to an all out snarkfest that isn't conducive to productive music discussion.

>I've had my share of industry experiences and make no qualms
>about my opinion on those. But it lends itself to have some
>insight in these type of discussions, and that insight IMO
>allows me to make objective statements. If I'm talking out of
>my ass I usually say it. If I'm hating I'm saying it pretty
>clear. This is not one of those cases though. Just random
>thoughts I had while listening to commercial radio for the
>first time in almost three years.


I feel you. I personally just see you as someone who is passionate about what you believe in. *shrugs* Then again, we have had dealings off of OKP so that helps keep things in perspective. I am passionate in the same way and have been misunderstood at times...like I previously mentioned. Just know though that when I put someone into the "hater" category I don't even acknowledge their presence. So basically, as long as you see me replying to your threads then it's all good between us! lol

AYANA SOYINI
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Khamouflage Productions
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www.youtube.com/khamouflage

New single "A Dancing Mood" available now on iTunes & Amazon. Written and produced by Ayana Soyini.

is there someone on interscope they gave up on that you think they shouldnt have done?

well ok, bilal i know, and thats sad, but hey, its pop or nothing these days.

There was another post talking about her 'genius.' I made a post talking about her marketing. If I had put all of this in that thread I would have been called a hater, despite the fact I'm not trying to hate at all, just putting the imcvspl microscope to it all. Yet and still folk want to come in this post and hate me for it. Go figure.
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just wondering why you dont like the idea that shes being pushed (although yeah, its not unreasonable to dislike any artist being rammed in your face). cos i dont sense you dont like the content of her marketing, you just dont like the fact she IS (still) being marketed.

cos from the sounds of it they just did what majors have been doing since the beginning of time, influencing other people (or giving incentives to those that supported her to begin with) and trying to make sure their investment (or just someone they believed in, if were not being cynical, even though we probably should be) gave back some of what they put in.

but majors have been making stars out of artists since forever. its what theyre good at doing. without that system in place, even genius artists (not naming names) wouldnt have been as famous or succesful as they are. gagas just the latest beneficiary.

and like murph said, sure, they MADE her a star, but she did a lot of work herself. she actually came up the traditional way, working as a writer first, performing in smaller bands, underground clubs etc etc, that was the standard route for decades and decades.

yeah, id love to see someone way left of centre (musically as well as visually) really getting pushed like gaga, but this at least *seems* a step in the right direction. if you wanna make a post about how she *seems* to be different but actually isnt all thaaaat different underneath it all, then thats probably safer ground.

fuck you.

rip up a photo of the pope? shit in 2010 that would probably make her even bigger. LOL!!
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b/c to me it means 'washed up'.

anyway, my point is...Gags is here to stay. she's just getting started. if you're saying she's already over, i disagree. maybe that's not what you're saying.

fuck you.

I meant over the hump as in, she's surpassed the obstacles to the top, not over the hill like she's on her way down.
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>b/c to me it means 'washed up'.

over the hump != over the hill

By over the hump I believe he means that "hump" of stardom. She's gotten her early grind on, to the point where her material from now on will be accepted first, based on reputation. She is now an established pop artist.

http://www.goosepimp.net/ - Cosmic Funk

fuck you.

trying to multitask with work right now.

http://www.goosepimp.net/ - Cosmic Funk

>*SMH* @ Usher releasing a song about signing divorce papers
>as his first single. Who the fuck wants to sing along with
>that shit.

I can't yet explain why, but I like this song. I feel better now that I've admitted that.

http://www.goosepimp.net/ - Cosmic Funk

"If you're in love throw your hands up!!"

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A google search of the lyric turned up no exact matches. This is the closest shit i could find.

http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/Never-Ever-lyrics-Ciara/8E22625962AAE5624825756A0008EC8B

http://www.goosepimp.net/ - Cosmic Funk

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I talked a lot of shit in the 00's
Watch me back it up in the 10's
http://avanturb.com

.

I'm fucking clueless on this new music shit.
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I talked a lot of shit in the 00's
Watch me back it up in the 10's
http://avanturb.com

Just happen to like the particular song you mentioned. Now that I have satellite radio I'm listening to all sorts of bullshit i wouldn't ordinarily, it's actually kinda nice.

http://www.goosepimp.net/ - Cosmic Funk

It's going to really become annoying in a minute.
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I talked a lot of shit in the 00's
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they came second on the X-factor (UK) and i think they've been signed to def jam in the US

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuklSZVvpzc

@LDNHipHopmgp(we meetup, go to hip hop events)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSryWcRD_tw

Thanks so much.
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Heads Up:
http://comeclean.avanturb.com
http://protoheads.avanturb.com
http://vanguard.avanturb.com

>It amazes me to think the chick who debuted with this horrible
>performance http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JS2R88vT04o is
>selling out shows these days. To her credit her 'performance'
>has approved a lot, but people talking about her pop genius
>being the key to her success are just wrong. Not to get Vex
>ID with it but some artist are not meant to fail. Gaga is
>one. I've said it before, but if any other artist had
>performed like that, and then did the sorry numbers her album
>started out with they would have been dropped within a month.

The media always does this ... picks an artist and starts the genius talk. Of course the average music listener picks up the talking point and runs with it ... which in turn makes it commonly accepted they are what the media says they are. Problem is most are never close to as good as the hype surrounding them. A few years from now they'll be on to another average talent.

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Considering this is what goes into making one, can the public alone do it. I guess you're still open to media influence just not dictated by the labels, but I really wonder. It's all very inbred.
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if the industry wasnt behind those two they wouldnt be half of who they are today.

you think MJs 'aura' and general genius would have been as accepted if he never left steel town records? lol.

but you're right in that you can't go to the next level without the media recognizing that talent. If Gaga sounded like Van Hunt it would be game over.
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>but you're right in that you can't go to the next level
>without the media recognizing that talent. If Gaga sounded
>like Van Hunt it would be game over.


I hear u OP...but the truth is, GaGa does have talent, especially when you take in account that she's performing in a genre of music that is not usually given any serious respect--Pop...

All this genius talk is of course over the top....But to say she's not talented is not looking at the fact that she plays on and composes her music, which btw, are pretty good pop songs....



murph71

I never said Gaga doesn't have talent. Actually I'm saying the opposite ... you can't become a megastar without some talent. The Millie Vanillies of the world get exposed sooner or later.
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fuck you.

problem is acts like that are too few and far between ... the industry always needs a genius though ... so they create them when it fits their needs
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even if someone out there is doing so, it's possible Gags could live up to the billing. she's only released one album so far. she's got potential. so far i'm not convinced she does or doesn't deserve that kind of talk. i'll reserve judgment until i hear/see more from her.

i probably would've scoffed back in 78/79 about Prince being called a genius after only 1 album. (i would've if i'd known what 'genius' meant back then and if i knew who Prince was and what an album was, considering i was 2 yrs old back then.)

fuck you.

Because I don't want to turn this into a rip gaga down post... honestly I don't care much about her one way or another. She seems somewhat talented but her hype seems more artificial and image based truthfully. From the minute we heard Prince on the radio we knew it was some new next level shit ... I was older than 2 of course. I don't think even most Gaga fans would say her sound is radically different than what's already out there.
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IMO they're helping define what's out there right now.

fuck you.

cause I know you actually believe that

carry on
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she's the next thing. some will hate and some will get it. that's what always happens. it even happened w/Prince.

i get it and i love it and i hope there's more to come.

fuck you.

prince sounded as much LIKE what was out in 1978 as he didnt. same with gaga. the difference - i hope - will become more pronounced as she goes on.