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Subject: "on bein' objective in hip hop...for the fuck what?" Previous topic | Next topic
Bblock
Member since Feb 20th 2012
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Wed Apr-18-12 12:52 PM

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"on bein' objective in hip hop...for the fuck what?"


  

          

i'm not a critic
i can understand if you were a paid critic
and had to write an article
reviewin' an lp
and you want to give the public an "unbiased" opinion
which i don't believe is possible

you have to have some bias
otherwise, everything made would be dope
but

there are standards to which you compare what you listen to
even if not made in the same vein

because, how can you say
that this was quality, or this is good, but not for me

and that not come across as biased or objective?

sounds like a plea cop, that you just don't
want to hurt any feelings or burn any bridges,
professional or personal

let's discuss

please show me if i'm wrong
i'm open
this is a discussion
not my opinion is better than yours

life always offers you a 2nd chance...it's called tomorrow. use it wisely

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
RE: on bein' objective in hip hop...for the fuck what?
Apr 18th 2012
1
this was a jumbled read. why don't you just say what you really mean?
Apr 18th 2012
2
i think i did. reread the title
Apr 18th 2012
3
RE: i think i did. reread the title
Apr 18th 2012
4
      i'm just callin' bullshit as i see it
Apr 18th 2012
5
Midnight Marauders is wack!
Apr 18th 2012
6
I actually agree... or rather
Apr 18th 2012
7
i mean, people act like i listen to stuff with an i'm gonna hate it ment...
Apr 18th 2012
8
      i could see that if you're into more...
Apr 18th 2012
9
           but back to the point of your post
Apr 18th 2012
10
                you know, since it became easier to get the product for less, i
Apr 18th 2012
11
LOL
Apr 18th 2012
12
is there a single *song* on MM that u like?
Apr 18th 2012
13
oh my god, lyrics to go, electric relaxation, god lives through
Apr 18th 2012
16
      see, cant be mad at that
Apr 18th 2012
17
      NIGGA FOH!!!!
Apr 18th 2012
18
           lmfao
Apr 18th 2012
19
           RE: NIGGA FOH!!!!
Apr 18th 2012
20
           4 out of 14 songs? that's means it's wack
Apr 18th 2012
21
                NIGGA STOP!!! It's impossible to like Oh My God and hate God Lives Throu...
Apr 18th 2012
22
                     ^^Christian posting
Apr 18th 2012
23
I see what you mean but don't agree 100%
Apr 18th 2012
14
because *attempting* to be objective is how you broaden your context
Apr 18th 2012
15
RE: I see what you did there.
Apr 18th 2012
24
this too.
Apr 18th 2012
26
you can objectively say whether something meets a certain aesthetic.
Apr 18th 2012
25
man, i don't fuck with bob dylan. that shit is wack to me
Apr 19th 2012
27
      RE: I see where both of you are coming from.
Apr 19th 2012
28
I hope you find what you're looking for. peace.
Apr 19th 2012
29

The3rdOne
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Wed Apr-18-12 12:53 PM

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1. "RE: on bein' objective in hip hop...for the fuck what?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://retroflix.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/pdvd_352.jpg?w=640

  

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david bammer
Member since Jun 20th 2010
4467 posts
Wed Apr-18-12 12:57 PM

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2. "this was a jumbled read. why don't you just say what you really mean?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

>i'm not a critic
>i can understand if you were a paid critic
>and had to write an article
>reviewin' an lp
>and you want to give the public an "unbiased" opinion
>which i don't believe is possible
>
>you have to have some bias
>otherwise, everything made would be dope
>but
>
>there are standards to which you compare what you listen to
>even if not made in the same vein
>
>because, how can you say
>that this was quality, or this is good, but not for me
>
>and that not come across as biased or objective?
>
>sounds like a plea cop, that you just don't
>want to hurt any feelings or burn any bridges,
>professional or personal
>
>let's discuss
>
>please show me if i'm wrong
>i'm open
>this is a discussion
>not my opinion is better than yours

  

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Bblock
Member since Feb 20th 2012
6243 posts
Wed Apr-18-12 12:59 PM

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3. "i think i did. reread the title"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

life always offers you a 2nd chance...it's called tomorrow. use it wisely

  

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david bammer
Member since Jun 20th 2010
4467 posts
Wed Apr-18-12 01:05 PM

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4. "RE: i think i did. reread the title"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

i get the impression there's something you want to skewer but are holding back and trying to look at the bigger picture because you figure it will evoke a more fervent response.
but ok, so you are just weighing the merits of "critics" and "objectivity" in "criticism" pro vs. amateur?
doesn't this seem sort of simplistic and passe to you?
i mean people have been asking similar things about "critics" for decades - this is hardly a revolutionary conversation.

  

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Bblock
Member since Feb 20th 2012
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Wed Apr-18-12 01:15 PM

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5. "i'm just callin' bullshit as i see it"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

people are sayin' be objective
what does that mean?
try to like it?
if it don't fit with your palette, why fuck with it?
cuz you might be missin' out?
well, what if you try it
and you don't like it?
what was gained?
you already knew, suspected you wouldn't
it was a waste
thats why i say, fuck "objectivity"
it don't exist

life always offers you a 2nd chance...it's called tomorrow. use it wisely

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
16541 posts
Wed Apr-18-12 01:18 PM

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6. "Midnight Marauders is wack!"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

OutKast, Gang Starr, UGK, Mobb Deep and Eightball & MJG

  

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Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
131957 posts
Wed Apr-18-12 01:53 PM

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7. "I actually agree... or rather"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I feel we don't recognize our own listening biases ENOUGH -- things like how our ears were "shaped". I realized that there is a bit of a common thread in the things I enjoy, and it's because of my "listening bias".

I had a post that I backspaced in this regard that was more in a "Fun Post" vein.

  

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Bblock
Member since Feb 20th 2012
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Wed Apr-18-12 02:42 PM

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8. "i mean, people act like i listen to stuff with an i'm gonna hate it ment..."
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

or with an i'ma like it mentality
i HOPE to like everything i hear
after listenin', i make my decision
do i want to play this again right away?
or do i want to discard it

when i first heard mm...i wasn't wowed
steven biko was boring to me
oh my god should have set it off
i couldn't stand award tour
i only really like electric relaxation
and oh my god and lyrics to go
nothin' made me want to dance or bump in the whip
or felt aggressive or hype enough for me
and keep it rollin' was so much of a disappointment
it sounded so muzak

so it got played that once, and i went on to what i was
feelin' more of
snoop, black moon, and wu

they had those hype beats

i just listened to it starting at 10:43 pst today
and it ain't movin' me
it's only on the itunes so as not to break up the discography
but the shit ain't the biz to me

life always offers you a 2nd chance...it's called tomorrow. use it wisely

  

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forgivenphoenix
Member since Dec 08th 2007
2514 posts
Wed Apr-18-12 06:10 PM

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9. "i could see that if you're into more..."
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

for lack of a better word, 'intense' beats, Midnight Marauders wouldn't work for you.

i just liked (and still listen to it) because the choices of the samples and the sound quality is just 'on the nose'. i can't remember anyone else using African, afro-beat horns like on Steve Biko or that Minnie Ripperton tone on Lyrics to Go. and the drums...don't get me started..

__________________________________________

http://www.twitter.com/chriscjamison/

People who don't take risks generally make about two big mistakes a year. People who do take risks generally make about two big mistakes a year.

Peter Drucker

  

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forgivenphoenix
Member since Dec 08th 2007
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Wed Apr-18-12 06:17 PM

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10. "but back to the point of your post"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

... i think a person can objectively judge things like production quality or the originality of a sample, or the level of skill used by a musician, but as far as emotion received from a song or 'quality', yeah that is subjective.

i think critics try to come (or at least used to. i haven't read any review in a while) from an objective place is that the job of the critic is to serve as a voice or warning of when values within the culture get changed or distorted and can make comments on developing or dying trends.

i guess to a degree the critic is self-serving. they're trying to use their knowledge of an artform or writing style to keep the reading coming back to read more.

i do think that the days of critics being truly objective and looking out for the health of the art is on its last legs if not dead already.

__________________________________________

http://www.twitter.com/chriscjamison/

People who don't take risks generally make about two big mistakes a year. People who do take risks generally make about two big mistakes a year.

Peter Drucker

  

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Bblock
Member since Feb 20th 2012
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Wed Apr-18-12 08:33 PM

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11. "you know, since it became easier to get the product for less, i "
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

stopped readin' reviews
because i could download and listen for myself
but when you had to buy everything
and wasn't sure
you had to trust somebody else's ears and their taste
now, when the product is easily available
you can trust your own ears and tastes now
fand if you don't like it, you're not really
out any money, so it's not a crapshoot anymore
when lookin' for a dope lp to listen to
now you can download and if it's wack, delete
no money lost!

life always offers you a 2nd chance...it's called tomorrow. use it wisely

  

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Anonymous
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Wed Apr-18-12 08:45 PM

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12. "LOL"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

this shit is getting sad.

  

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
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Wed Apr-18-12 09:08 PM

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13. "is there a single *song* on MM that u like?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

i mean u gotta at least f w/ oh my god or somethin

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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Bblock
Member since Feb 20th 2012
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Wed Apr-18-12 09:38 PM

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16. "oh my god, lyrics to go, electric relaxation, god lives through"
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

that's it

life always offers you a 2nd chance...it's called tomorrow. use it wisely

  

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
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Wed Apr-18-12 09:42 PM

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17. "see, cant be mad at that"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
42225 posts
Wed Apr-18-12 09:46 PM

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18. "NIGGA FOH!!!!"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

The level of hate you've put out over the years for that album, you *HAVE* to say none. I'm so fucking disappointed in you. You had me going for all this time. You don't even hate the album, you just hate the people that love it. To think I used to look up to you and now you've turned me into this bitter monster nobody likes anymore. You see what you created block. FUCK YOU!!!!!






________
Big PEMFin H & z's
█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am one thing, a musician." Miles Davis

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
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Wed Apr-18-12 09:50 PM

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19. "lmfao"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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Bombastic
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Wed Apr-18-12 09:58 PM

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20. "RE: NIGGA FOH!!!!"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfj3dPkeaqI

  

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Bblock
Member since Feb 20th 2012
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Wed Apr-18-12 10:02 PM

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21. "4 out of 14 songs? that's means it's wack"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

and i only like those after years
the only two songs i like initially when the lp dropped
were electric relaxation and oh my god

life always offers you a 2nd chance...it's called tomorrow. use it wisely

  

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imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
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22. "NIGGA STOP!!! It's impossible to like Oh My God and hate God Lives Throu..."
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

IMPOSSIBLE!!!!
________
Big PEMFin H & z's
█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am one thing, a musician." Miles Davis

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

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-DJ R-Tistic-
Member since Nov 06th 2008
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Wed Apr-18-12 10:28 PM

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23. "^^Christian posting"
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

------------------------------

50+ FREE Mixes on www.DJR-Tistic.com!

Twitter and Instagram - @DJ_RTistic

  

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-DJ R-Tistic-
Member since Nov 06th 2008
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Wed Apr-18-12 09:13 PM

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14. "I see what you mean but don't agree 100%"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Like Immortal Technique...I see that he has focused content and isn't just talking about bullshit, but it isn't for me. It's not like when I listen to "Bennie Biggle Wiggle" and really say "wait.....what the FUCK do you see good in this????"

Same with a lot of music, really. I can say that something is polished, focused, and recognize that the elements are on point...even if it doesn't move me. On the flipside, it's music that I personally enjoy that I know some folks would hate and even think is garbage...whether it's YG "I like money" or Kstylis "Booty me down."

------------------------------

50+ FREE Mixes on www.DJR-Tistic.com!

Twitter and Instagram - @DJ_RTistic

  

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imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
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Wed Apr-18-12 09:20 PM

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15. "because *attempting* to be objective is how you broaden your context"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

but whatever nigga, my opinions better than yours anyway.
LOL!!

________
Big PEMFin H & z's
█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am one thing, a musician." Miles Davis

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

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Austin
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Wed Apr-18-12 10:56 PM

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24. "RE: I see what you did there."
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

~Austin

"Where in the world is your inspiration to say the things you're aching to say?"

http://austintayeshus.blogspot.com

http://www.last.fm/user/Austintayeshus

http://twitter.com/Austintayeshus

  

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Joe Corn Mo
Member since Aug 29th 2010
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Wed Apr-18-12 11:27 PM

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26. "this too."
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

  

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Joe Corn Mo
Member since Aug 29th 2010
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Wed Apr-18-12 11:23 PM

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25. "you can objectively say whether something meets a certain aesthetic."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

meaning that as long as two people agree on a standard,
we can each prove make our arguments as to whether or not
a piece of art fits the bill for being top notch material.



i mean, let's say i dig stevie wonder.
now ultimately, i don't know WHY i love stevie wonder.
but i can talk about things that stevie wonder does that i like.

vocal range.
ability to emote.
sing-song, catchy melodies,
dense vocal harmonies,

things like that.



and once we agree on our definitions
of what qualifies as quality,
we can argue about whether other similar artists (like donny hathaway, or marvin gaye) do those things better them him.







it's not copping pleas to say that bob dylan is dope,
but i don't fuck with him like that.

because i can recognize that bob dylan makes music
that fits a certain aesthetic, and he's really good at doing what he's trying to do.



but i don't dig that type of music,
so i give a nod to dylan for doing what he does,
but i keep it moving and i don't listen to it in my free time.




your aesthetic is subjective.
it has a lot to do with how your ears were "formed," like dr. claw was saying above.


but once we agree on what the criteria is for quality,
we can be pretty objective about whether or not something fits the bill.





well, some of us can.

there are plenty of folks in the lesson that try to argue
that one aesthetic is "better" than the other.

but that's pretty retarded.




you can't really be objective about what aesthetic you value,
but you can be fairly objective about whether or not an artist is good
at fitting a certain aesthetic.








>i'm not a critic
>i can understand if you were a paid critic
>and had to write an article
>reviewin' an lp
>and you want to give the public an "unbiased" opinion
>which i don't believe is possible
>
>you have to have some bias
>otherwise, everything made would be dope
>but
>
>there are standards to which you compare what you listen to
>even if not made in the same vein
>
>because, how can you say
>that this was quality, or this is good, but not for me
>
>and that not come across as biased or objective?
>
>sounds like a plea cop, that you just don't
>want to hurt any feelings or burn any bridges,
>professional or personal
>
>let's discuss
>
>please show me if i'm wrong
>i'm open
>this is a discussion
>not my opinion is better than yours

  

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Bblock
Member since Feb 20th 2012
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Thu Apr-19-12 12:06 AM

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27. "man, i don't fuck with bob dylan. that shit is wack to me"
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

i don't know what standards he got
or whatever this quality is
the shit don't interest me
therefore it is wack to me
that's the rule i listen to music by
i have no problem with it
you shouldn't either
and my horizons are broad when it comes to music

life always offers you a 2nd chance...it's called tomorrow. use it wisely

  

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Austin
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Thu Apr-19-12 12:16 AM

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28. "RE: I see where both of you are coming from."
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

I love Stevie Wonder and Bob Dylan equally.

I go through periods where Bob just makes me break down like nobody else and I look at my Stevie albums and think "enh."

Two months later, it's the opposite.

Perceived "genres" suck sometimes.

~Austin

"Where in the world is your inspiration to say the things you're aching to say?"

http://austintayeshus.blogspot.com

http://www.last.fm/user/Austintayeshus

http://twitter.com/Austintayeshus

  

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mathmagic
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Thu Apr-19-12 02:53 PM

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29. "I hope you find what you're looking for. peace."
In response to Reply # 0


          

Jordan!

  

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