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Subject: "How do you teach children about capitalism? " Previous topic | Next topic
imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
42117 posts
Tue Sep-15-20 02:05 PM

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"How do you teach children about capitalism? "


  

          

I'm on my third round of this and still don't think I got it right.

█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
How old are they? What do you want to get across?
Sep 15th 2020
1
Objectively?
Sep 15th 2020
3
      This touches everything - so talk about something you know
Sep 16th 2020
14
What do you want to teach them? to succeed in it or why it is bad?
Sep 15th 2020
2
By discussing the limits and blind spots of capitalism
Sep 15th 2020
4
Introduce the Degrowth Movement and Concepts
Sep 15th 2020
5
rewind the clock to a time before
Sep 15th 2020
6
I don't understand this question. Is this something that's difficult??
Sep 16th 2020
7
That's not capitalism.
Sep 16th 2020
8
who said anything about working hard? I didn't. all that other stuff = n...
Sep 16th 2020
10
      They are trying to raise some future Portland protestors
Sep 16th 2020
15
      Do you spend a lot of time around students?
Sep 16th 2020
22
           I don’t spend any time around students right now
Sep 16th 2020
25
                Yeah, I zero'd in on children...because that's 10 years and under to me....
Sep 16th 2020
29
      daddy whats capitalism? "shh go to bed dear. daddy's watching football"
Sep 16th 2020
21
Your description isn’t dark enough
Sep 16th 2020
11
^^^^ pretty simple really
Sep 16th 2020
12
notice you have no real perspective on things.
Sep 16th 2020
18
      RE: notice you have no real perspective on things.
Sep 16th 2020
27
           This is a message board, where we discuss things. I believe in you.
Sep 16th 2020
28
You're not describing capitalism
Sep 16th 2020
16
Oxford
Sep 16th 2020
30
short answer: no, that is not the gist
Sep 16th 2020
17
      This part has more legs than you let on
Sep 16th 2020
20
      Right on.
Sep 16th 2020
24
      money. makes. the. world. go. around.
Sep 16th 2020
31
           i hear you.
Sep 16th 2020
33
Some good suggestions already.
Sep 16th 2020
9
You said you failed a few times.. what’s failure?
Sep 16th 2020
13
Re: Failure
Sep 16th 2020
34
Identity plays a big role in someones understanding of capitalism
Sep 16th 2020
19
play Monopoly, do kids still play board games?
Sep 16th 2020
23
You could try this activity
Sep 16th 2020
26
Slavery, drug, colonization, greedy Europeans
Sep 16th 2020
32

Walleye
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Tue Sep-15-20 02:17 PM

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1. "How old are they? What do you want to get across?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I'm not trying to sidetrack this, but I've had to try this for a new demographic recently (highschoolers) and have found some structural complications that I didn't expect.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
42117 posts
Tue Sep-15-20 02:24 PM

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3. "Objectively? "
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

Not in the American Capitalist Democracy version of objective either. I don't think we teach children enough about it, and definitely not in a way that is critical. We are already so entrenched, but theoretically if we teach the kids to be critical thinkers about it they might have the tools to do better.

>I'm not trying to sidetrack this, but I've had to try this
>for a new demographic recently (highschoolers) and have found
>some structural complications that I didn't expect.


█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

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Walleye
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Wed Sep-16-20 08:21 AM

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14. "This touches everything - so talk about something you know"
In response to Reply # 3


          

Capitalism takes up a lot of air because of its pervasiveness in our lives, but that means you have a lot of ways to talk about it.

For me, that way is history. It's easier to explain historical action based on material circumstance than it sometimes is in our own lives but I actually think that's because it's the easiest way for me to relate to it and so the easiest way to discuss it.

But if you have an economic system that impacts so much of the ways we relate to each other, it means you've got your own way to talk about it. Which means you should do that.

If you've got a job that a kid can get their brain around easily, you can talk about the relationship between you, your labor, and profit.

Maybe you live in a city/town environment where the specific tensions between making decisions for our collective benefit and making decisions for individual profit can be clear? Sometimes, I have a hard time imagining what it would be like if somebody in 2020 came up with the idea of a bus or a library or public school for the first time.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
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Tue Sep-15-20 02:18 PM

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2. "What do you want to teach them? to succeed in it or why it is bad?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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mind_grapes
Member since Nov 13th 2007
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Tue Sep-15-20 03:10 PM

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4. "By discussing the limits and blind spots of capitalism"
In response to Reply # 0


          

its inability to address catastrophic climate change, in which ongoing environmental destruction is viewed as an "externality"

that modern liberalism and democratic governance is predicated on maintaining the interest of those who own property vs. those who are treated like property

by challenging the notion of human rights, which "civilized" nations believe extend to everyone inside their borders; when in reality, they are systematically deprived across the poorest countries, which brutally exploit labor to produce our consumer goods

by comparing traditional agrarian-based societies with the horrors of factory farming and concentrated animal feedlots

by challenging the idea that the Holocaust was rooted in hatred, as opposed to indifference; or by demonstrating that concentration camps universally start as labor camps, before governments move towards genocide

by discussing the rise of surveillance capitalism and the financial incentives of private prisons; some of which may have even produced the furniture in their public schools (at a fraction of its market value)

How you chose to illustrate the above depends on their age, but there are plenty of movies you can show: like Charlotte's Web, Judgement at Nuremberg, Schindler's List, and Koyaanisqatsi (to name a few).

  

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Mori
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Tue Sep-15-20 03:59 PM

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5. "Introduce the Degrowth Movement and Concepts"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Degrowth is an idea that critiques the global capitalist system which pursues growth at all costs, causing human exploitation and environmental destruction.

I have been able to better understand capitalism when there is another system to examine as an alternative.

I hate when people criticize capitalism because we all benefit unless we live in a remote, indigenous village and hunt for our food. Depending on a govenrment system is not the answer and there are so few systems that exist that have not benefitted from the abuse of land, animals or humans.

https://www.degrowth.info/en/what-is-degrowth/
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/degrowth-case-for-constructing-new-economic-paradigm/

Rise & Shine
Thrive & Grind
Heart & Mind

  

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double negative
Member since Dec 14th 2007
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Tue Sep-15-20 06:52 PM

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6. "rewind the clock to a time before "
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Sep-15-20 06:57 PM by double negative

  

          

I guess...when I think about it all it kind of only makes sense to go back to a pre industrialized world to contextualize capitalism

* there was a time when we did not control the land, the land controlled us. we ate what we hunted and we found/foraged for edible vegetation

* then we learned how to control the land and make it produce goods consistently. consistent or semi consistent good production creates stability.

* then we traded goods among each other - but then it may have become difficult at points to find agreeable universal trade terms. enter gold, currency, some universal representation of value to be exchanged for goods

* more stability, less self reliance, more outward sourcing for goods. Farming instead went from an individual essential function needed for survival to a society with specialization

etc.

//
so then,

Time = Base Unit = Money

Money = Stored Value (that is to say, unlike goods that that can rot or depreciate, money is value in essence)

&

Goods = Stored Value / Stored Value = Goods
//


*society is stabilized - the elements are not trying to fucking kill you at every turn. Man has controlled his world. The value of things can be expressed and exchanged between people. RIGHT?

*some history stuff happens. we got kings and shit and then....

at the barber shop David and Adam are chilling waiting to get edged up.
Giovanni Girolamo Kapsperger's new fire ass lute music is playing.

Adam: aight, fuck this king shit my nig. what if instead of me giving you some coin for this corn and you giving some of that coin to the king, we say fuck that. what if we could all be kings?

David: I'm heated. King own my land, my home, everything. What if we could own our own property? I'm like...I'm like barely making it dude.

Adam: Look look, I got this idea right? It's just you selling that corn right? I'm thinking, I got my cousin and his friends, we grow more corn than you

David: Adam...

Adam: I got the seed nigga on deck. I'm thinking I get my peoples to grow more corn, and since we'll have more corn, we can sell that shit by the boatload at a cheaper price.

David: Right but, your cousin and his people...after all that work we're still gonna be making the same amount of mo..

Adam: HOW MUCH IT COST TO GET CORN FROM THE GROUND DUDE?

David: Wha...

Adam: HOW. MUCH. IT. COS..

David: I don't know! I don't know!

Adam: Exactly, and they don't know either. Like I said, 👏🏾straight 👏🏾cash 👏🏾homie. I'm about to be the crispiest corn selling dude on the strip.





***********************************************************
https://soundcloud.com/swageyph/yph-die-with-me

  

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FLUIDJ
Member since Sep 18th 2002
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Wed Sep-16-20 05:42 AM

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7. "I don't understand this question. Is this something that's difficult??"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Money makes the world go round.
If you want to go round with it, you gotta make money.
If you want to make money, you gotta have a job.
If you want to keep money, you gotta learn to save & spend wisely.
There are millions of nuances...of course...but is that not the gist?

  

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Backbone
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Wed Sep-16-20 06:47 AM

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8. "That's not capitalism."
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

At best it's a description of reality/daily life under capitalism, and even then only part of it, since plenty of people work hard and remain poor.

___________________
"So this is what everybody's always talking about! Diablo! If only I'd known. The beauty! The beauty!"

  

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FLUIDJ
Member since Sep 18th 2002
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Wed Sep-16-20 07:34 AM

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10. "who said anything about working hard? I didn't. all that other stuff = n..."
In response to Reply # 8
Wed Sep-16-20 07:35 AM by FLUIDJ

  

          

the nuances....
I dunno...
there are just sooooooooooooooooooooooooo many more important things that children need to be learning about...
capitalism is far far down on the list IMO.

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
67184 posts
Wed Sep-16-20 08:21 AM

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15. "They are trying to raise some future Portland protestors"
In response to Reply # 10


          

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Walleye
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Wed Sep-16-20 09:13 AM

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22. "Do you spend a lot of time around students?"
In response to Reply # 15


          

If so, maybe your experience is different, and I'd be happy to hear it. But I've had around 100 per semester (about 150 this semester) and they're radicalized already, in substantial numbers. Just done with all of this bullshit and looking for authentic ways to relate to one another.

I try to put words and context to what they're experiencing, and give them ways to step outside that and look at their place in the world and in history. That means telling them, truthfully, what capitalism has done and continues to do in their lives. All of this is in service of preparing them for a world they're going to take for themselves one day.

Given their urgency, I hope that happens sooner rather than later. Mass social action is one way that can occur. But so are small acts of solidarity that show other people that until all of us are free, none of us are. If somebody takes one of my classes and decides this is important enough to act on, then that means I've done my job.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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legsdiamond
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Wed Sep-16-20 09:40 AM

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25. "I don’t spend any time around students right now"
In response to Reply # 22


          

my wife teaches HS students and she used to teach college so I had more interactions before covid.

but the OP said children.

I’m curious of the ages and what the convo is like if the kid is 9 or 11.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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FLUIDJ
Member since Sep 18th 2002
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Wed Sep-16-20 11:06 AM

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29. "Yeah, I zero'd in on children...because that's 10 years and under to me...."
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

High Schoolers?....ok....it's possibly a conversation and lesson worth having and teaching....possibly....

"Get ready....for your blessing....."
"Bury me by my Grand-Grand and when you can come follow me"

  

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Brotha Sun
Member since Dec 31st 2009
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Wed Sep-16-20 09:05 AM

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21. "daddy whats capitalism? "shh go to bed dear. daddy's watching football""
In response to Reply # 10


          

"They used to call me Baby Luke....but now? The whole damn 2 Liiiive Crew."

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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11. "Your description isn’t dark enough"
In response to Reply # 7
Wed Sep-16-20 08:04 AM by legsdiamond

          

You gotta go all in and scare the shit out of these kids.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Amritsar
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Wed Sep-16-20 08:01 AM

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12. "^^^^ pretty simple really "
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

this post will be hijacked by cosplay socialists though just wait

_______________________________________________
"Ran through enough dope for Castro to build schools in Cuba. Teach ya kids how to read and write. And use the Ruger."

  

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Brotha Sun
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Wed Sep-16-20 08:54 AM

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18. "notice you have no real perspective on things."
In response to Reply # 12


          

Can you even articulate your disdain for leftists outside of smug half-baked posts?

if you care enough to have such a strong opinion you should care enough to do a single ounce of research.

"They used to call me Baby Luke....but now? The whole damn 2 Liiiive Crew."

  

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Amritsar
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Wed Sep-16-20 10:34 AM

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27. "RE: notice you have no real perspective on things."
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

Lol and you want me to take time to explain all this to you?

*Reads your other replies in here*


_______________________________________________
"Ran through enough dope for Castro to build schools in Cuba. Teach ya kids how to read and write. And use the Ruger."

  

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Brotha Sun
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28. "This is a message board, where we discuss things. I believe in you."
In response to Reply # 27


          

"They used to call me Baby Luke....but now? The whole damn 2 Liiiive Crew."

  

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Walleye
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Wed Sep-16-20 08:25 AM

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16. "You're not describing capitalism"
In response to Reply # 7


          

>Money makes the world go round.

Additionally, this isn't true by necessity. And it's not true everywhere, so "the world" isn't correct here. It hasn't always been the case, at least not in the same way as it is now, or 100 years ago, or 200 years before that, and it may not always be the case.

That's why it's important to talk about these ways of relating to each other, how they impact our lives, and why. Because capitalism is something that we've chosen, not a natural force like gravity. It can be un-chosen, not easily - but there was something before it and there will be something after it.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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FLUIDJ
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Wed Sep-16-20 11:11 AM

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30. "Oxford"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

An economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state

....

like I said...Money makes the world go around...
Economic = Money
Political = Money
Trade = Money
Industry = Money
Private Owners = Money
Profit = Money
The State = Wants money.

Explain to me where i'm wrong....while not taking into account that i clearly stated "there are nuances...of course"

"Get ready....for your blessing....."
"Bury me by my Grand-Grand and when you can come follow me"

  

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Brotha Sun
Member since Dec 31st 2009
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Wed Sep-16-20 08:50 AM

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17. "short answer: no, that is not the gist "
In response to Reply # 7


          

currency and labor existed long before capitalism. Capitalism is moreso a system that is constantly searching for expansion, and labor at the lowest price. Hiring a team of bodyguards to protect the wealthy and forcibly remove the people who can't afford to rent a home (Police).

capitalism unchecked (or free market, as the bootlickers call it) is buying politicians so the working class can't demand better compensation for their labor, or starting meaningless wars for oil and arms deals, literally drilling into the earth for money and ignoring the consequences. When you bled all you could from the domestic work force, you outsource and pay people even lower wages overseas.




or even simpler: racism/slavery is the foundation of the country and capitalism is the mcmansion they built on top of it.

"They used to call me Baby Luke....but now? The whole damn 2 Liiiive Crew."

  

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Walleye
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20. "This part has more legs than you let on"
In response to Reply # 17


          

>or even simpler: racism/slavery is the foundation of the
>country and capitalism is the mcmansion they built on top of
>it.

I mean, it's funny and clear and doesn't need more than that to work. But it's also really congruent with the rest of your post that kind of positions capitalism's relentless activity and aggression as dedicated to an end purpose of obscuring what it's done with a tacky, useless isolation from genuine human love.

That's all. I enjoyed your post. Thanks.


______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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Brotha Sun
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Wed Sep-16-20 09:24 AM

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24. "Right on."
In response to Reply # 20


          

"They used to call me Baby Luke....but now? The whole damn 2 Liiiive Crew."

  

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FLUIDJ
Member since Sep 18th 2002
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Wed Sep-16-20 11:16 AM

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31. "money. makes. the. world. go. around. "
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

you've covered the nuances immensely...
but a child (10 and under) needs to learn SOOooooo many other things before they can grasp the nuances....

So...
yeah...
I'm keeping any discussion on capitalism breezy until early teens.....


"Get ready....for your blessing....."
"Bury me by my Grand-Grand and when you can come follow me"

  

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Brotha Sun
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Wed Sep-16-20 12:34 PM

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33. "i hear you. "
In response to Reply # 31


          

"They used to call me Baby Luke....but now? The whole damn 2 Liiiive Crew."

  

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Backbone
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9. "Some good suggestions already."
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Sep-16-20 07:21 AM by Backbone

  

          

It also might be useful to address the driving psychological assumption behind capitalism, i.e. the idea of the "homo economicus". And why it's bullshit

edit: obviously in a way that makes sense to children, lol. Kinda forgot about that part. Might be tough depending on how old they are.

___________________
"So this is what everybody's always talking about! Diablo! If only I'd known. The beauty! The beauty!"

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Wed Sep-16-20 08:16 AM

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13. "You said you failed a few times.. what’s failure? "
In response to Reply # 0


          

They didn’t understand the impact of capitalism on our daily lives?
Not scared about climate change?
Didn’t think it was an important topic?

Shrug and kept it moving?

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
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Wed Sep-16-20 12:54 PM

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34. "Re: Failure "
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

It's funny everyone distinguishing between children and teens and implying you do it more in the teen years.

From my experience kids with some awareness will get punched in the face with how insidious capitalism can and will be. So teaching them is in preparation for that and yes that needs to happen before teens.

Failure here is just meaning they still got punched in the face and it hurt.

I'm not sure it's avoidable honestly. But I do think we can do more to prepare them.




█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

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Brotha Sun
Member since Dec 31st 2009
6031 posts
Wed Sep-16-20 09:01 AM

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19. "Identity plays a big role in someones understanding of capitalism"
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Religion, sexuality, race, class.

From my experience its easier to explain to POC how we live in a broken system because they've been hit the most by it, even the ones who grew up middle/upper class saw how it affected their family.

Find an issue in the world that resonates with them, and theres a very good chance capitalism directly affects it. Start there.

even a random tv show they like can be converted into a lesson

"They used to call me Baby Luke....but now? The whole damn 2 Liiiive Crew."

  

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ThaTruth
Charter member
90709 posts
Wed Sep-16-20 09:13 AM

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23. "play Monopoly, do kids still play board games? "
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________________________________________
Watch For The Hook
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy9Fun9CuZ4

  

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reaction
Member since Aug 09th 2019
213 posts
Wed Sep-16-20 10:06 AM

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26. "You could try this activity"
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This visualization of wealth inequality would work great as a presentation where kids can guess where each slice of pie goes. https://twitter.com/CBSThisMorning/status/1223224310413905921?s=20 That could be a good way to start the conversation about how unfair unchecked capitalism is and how much worse it has gotten in the last few decades.

This is also my go to article that really illuminates the rigged system, might work for older kids https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/06/the-birth-of-a-new-american-aristocracy/559130/

  

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Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
15495 posts
Wed Sep-16-20 12:17 PM

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32. "Slavery, drug, colonization, greedy Europeans"
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.

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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