I'm on my third round of this and still don't think I got it right.

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Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

I'm not trying to sidetrack this, but I've had to try this for a new demographic recently (highschoolers) and have found some structural complications that I didn't expect.

Not in the American Capitalist Democracy version of objective either. I don't think we teach children enough about it, and definitely not in a way that is critical. We are already so entrenched, but theoretically if we teach the kids to be critical thinkers about it they might have the tools to do better.

>I'm not trying to sidetrack this, but I've had to try this
>for a new demographic recently (highschoolers) and have found
>some structural complications that I didn't expect.


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Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

Capitalism takes up a lot of air because of its pervasiveness in our lives, but that means you have a lot of ways to talk about it.

For me, that way is history. It's easier to explain historical action based on material circumstance than it sometimes is in our own lives but I actually think that's because it's the easiest way for me to relate to it and so the easiest way to discuss it.

But if you have an economic system that impacts so much of the ways we relate to each other, it means you've got your own way to talk about it. Which means you should do that.

If you've got a job that a kid can get their brain around easily, you can talk about the relationship between you, your labor, and profit.

Maybe you live in a city/town environment where the specific tensions between making decisions for our collective benefit and making decisions for individual profit can be clear? Sometimes, I have a hard time imagining what it would be like if somebody in 2020 came up with the idea of a bus or a library or public school for the first time.

its inability to address catastrophic climate change, in which ongoing environmental destruction is viewed as an "externality"

that modern liberalism and democratic governance is predicated on maintaining the interest of those who own property vs. those who are treated like property

by challenging the notion of human rights, which "civilized" nations believe extend to everyone inside their borders; when in reality, they are systematically deprived across the poorest countries, which brutally exploit labor to produce our consumer goods

by comparing traditional agrarian-based societies with the horrors of factory farming and concentrated animal feedlots

by challenging the idea that the Holocaust was rooted in hatred, as opposed to indifference; or by demonstrating that concentration camps universally start as labor camps, before governments move towards genocide

by discussing the rise of surveillance capitalism and the financial incentives of private prisons; some of which may have even produced the furniture in their public schools (at a fraction of its market value)

How you chose to illustrate the above depends on their age, but there are plenty of movies you can show: like Charlotte's Web, Judgement at Nuremberg, Schindler's List, and Koyaanisqatsi (to name a few).

Degrowth is an idea that critiques the global capitalist system which pursues growth at all costs, causing human exploitation and environmental destruction.

I have been able to better understand capitalism when there is another system to examine as an alternative.

I hate when people criticize capitalism because we all benefit unless we live in a remote, indigenous village and hunt for our food. Depending on a govenrment system is not the answer and there are so few systems that exist that have not benefitted from the abuse of land, animals or humans.

https://www.degrowth.info/en/what-is-degrowth/
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/degrowth-case-for-constructing-new-economic-paradigm/

I guess...when I think about it all it kind of only makes sense to go back to a pre industrialized world to contextualize capitalism

* there was a time when we did not control the land, the land controlled us. we ate what we hunted and we found/foraged for edible vegetation

* then we learned how to control the land and make it produce goods consistently. consistent or semi consistent good production creates stability.

* then we traded goods among each other - but then it may have become difficult at points to find agreeable universal trade terms. enter gold, currency, some universal representation of value to be exchanged for goods

* more stability, less self reliance, more outward sourcing for goods. Farming instead went from an individual essential function needed for survival to a society with specialization

etc.

//
so then,

Time = Base Unit = Money

Money = Stored Value (that is to say, unlike goods that that can rot or depreciate, money is value in essence)

&

Goods = Stored Value / Stored Value = Goods
//


*society is stabilized - the elements are not trying to fucking kill you at every turn. Man has controlled his world. The value of things can be expressed and exchanged between people. RIGHT?

*some history stuff happens. we got kings and shit and then....

at the barber shop David and Adam are chilling waiting to get edged up.
Giovanni Girolamo Kapsperger's new fire ass lute music is playing.

Adam: aight, fuck this king shit my nig. what if instead of me giving you some coin for this corn and you giving some of that coin to the king, we say fuck that. what if we could all be kings?

David: I'm heated. King own my land, my home, everything. What if we could own our own property? I'm like...I'm like barely making it dude.

Adam: Look look, I got this idea right? It's just you selling that corn right? I'm thinking, I got my cousin and his friends, we grow more corn than you

David: Adam...

Adam: I got the seed nigga on deck. I'm thinking I get my peoples to grow more corn, and since we'll have more corn, we can sell that shit by the boatload at a cheaper price.

David: Right but, your cousin and his people...after all that work we're still gonna be making the same amount of mo..

Adam: HOW MUCH IT COST TO GET CORN FROM THE GROUND DUDE?

David: Wha...

Adam: HOW. MUCH. IT. COS..

David: I don't know! I don't know!

Adam: Exactly, and they don't know either. Like I said, 👏🏾straight 👏🏾cash 👏🏾homie. I'm about to be the crispiest corn selling dude on the strip.

Money makes the world go round.
If you want to go round with it, you gotta make money.
If you want to make money, you gotta have a job.
If you want to keep money, you gotta learn to save & spend wisely.
There are millions of nuances...of course...but is that not the gist?

At best it's a description of reality/daily life under capitalism, and even then only part of it, since plenty of people work hard and remain poor.

the nuances....
I dunno...
there are just sooooooooooooooooooooooooo many more important things that children need to be learning about...
capitalism is far far down on the list IMO.

If so, maybe your experience is different, and I'd be happy to hear it. But I've had around 100 per semester (about 150 this semester) and they're radicalized already, in substantial numbers. Just done with all of this bullshit and looking for authentic ways to relate to one another.

I try to put words and context to what they're experiencing, and give them ways to step outside that and look at their place in the world and in history. That means telling them, truthfully, what capitalism has done and continues to do in their lives. All of this is in service of preparing them for a world they're going to take for themselves one day.

Given their urgency, I hope that happens sooner rather than later. Mass social action is one way that can occur. But so are small acts of solidarity that show other people that until all of us are free, none of us are. If somebody takes one of my classes and decides this is important enough to act on, then that means I've done my job.

my wife teaches HS students and she used to teach college so I had more interactions before covid.

but the OP said children.

I’m curious of the ages and what the convo is like if the kid is 9 or 11.

High Schoolers?....ok....it's possibly a conversation and lesson worth having and teaching....possibly....

"Get ready....for your blessing....."
"Bury me by my Grand-Grand and when you can come follow me"

You gotta go all in and scare the shit out of these kids.

this post will be hijacked by cosplay socialists though just wait

Can you even articulate your disdain for leftists outside of smug half-baked posts?

if you care enough to have such a strong opinion you should care enough to do a single ounce of research.

Lol and you want me to take time to explain all this to you?

*Reads your other replies in here*

>Money makes the world go round.

Additionally, this isn't true by necessity. And it's not true everywhere, so "the world" isn't correct here. It hasn't always been the case, at least not in the same way as it is now, or 100 years ago, or 200 years before that, and it may not always be the case.

That's why it's important to talk about these ways of relating to each other, how they impact our lives, and why. Because capitalism is something that we've chosen, not a natural force like gravity. It can be un-chosen, not easily - but there was something before it and there will be something after it.

An economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state

....

like I said...Money makes the world go around...
Economic = Money
Political = Money
Trade = Money
Industry = Money
Private Owners = Money
Profit = Money
The State = Wants money.

Explain to me where i'm wrong....while not taking into account that i clearly stated "there are nuances...of course"

"Get ready....for your blessing....."
"Bury me by my Grand-Grand and when you can come follow me"

currency and labor existed long before capitalism. Capitalism is moreso a system that is constantly searching for expansion, and labor at the lowest price. Hiring a team of bodyguards to protect the wealthy and forcibly remove the people who can't afford to rent a home (Police).

capitalism unchecked (or free market, as the bootlickers call it) is buying politicians so the working class can't demand better compensation for their labor, or starting meaningless wars for oil and arms deals, literally drilling into the earth for money and ignoring the consequences. When you bled all you could from the domestic work force, you outsource and pay people even lower wages overseas.




or even simpler: racism/slavery is the foundation of the country and capitalism is the mcmansion they built on top of it.

>or even simpler: racism/slavery is the foundation of the
>country and capitalism is the mcmansion they built on top of
>it.

I mean, it's funny and clear and doesn't need more than that to work. But it's also really congruent with the rest of your post that kind of positions capitalism's relentless activity and aggression as dedicated to an end purpose of obscuring what it's done with a tacky, useless isolation from genuine human love.

That's all. I enjoyed your post. Thanks.

you've covered the nuances immensely...
but a child (10 and under) needs to learn SOOooooo many other things before they can grasp the nuances....

So...
yeah...
I'm keeping any discussion on capitalism breezy until early teens.....


"Get ready....for your blessing....."
"Bury me by my Grand-Grand and when you can come follow me"

It also might be useful to address the driving psychological assumption behind capitalism, i.e. the idea of the "homo economicus". And why it's bullshit :)

edit: obviously in a way that makes sense to children, lol. Kinda forgot about that part. Might be tough depending on how old they are.

They didn’t understand the impact of capitalism on our daily lives?
Not scared about climate change?
Didn’t think it was an important topic?

Shrug and kept it moving?

It's funny everyone distinguishing between children and teens and implying you do it more in the teen years.

From my experience kids with some awareness will get punched in the face with how insidious capitalism can and will be. So teaching them is in preparation for that and yes that needs to happen before teens.

Failure here is just meaning they still got punched in the face and it hurt.

I'm not sure it's avoidable honestly. But I do think we can do more to prepare them.




█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

Religion, sexuality, race, class.

From my experience its easier to explain to POC how we live in a broken system because they've been hit the most by it, even the ones who grew up middle/upper class saw how it affected their family.

Find an issue in the world that resonates with them, and theres a very good chance capitalism directly affects it. Start there.

even a random tv show they like can be converted into a lesson

This visualization of wealth inequality would work great as a presentation where kids can guess where each slice of pie goes. https://twitter.com/CBSThisMorning/status/1223224310413905921?s=20 That could be a good way to start the conversation about how unfair unchecked capitalism is and how much worse it has gotten in the last few decades.

This is also my go to article that really illuminates the rigged system, might work for older kids https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/06/the-birth-of-a-new-american-aristocracy/559130/

.