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Subject: "why don't rich people go prison?" Previous topic | Next topic
Joe Corn Mo
Member since Aug 29th 2010
15139 posts
Sat Feb-21-15 06:06 PM

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"why don't rich people go prison?"
Sat Feb-21-15 06:08 PM by Joe Corn Mo

  

          

if people that are poor were to stop committing crime forever,
would cops stop arresting poor people?

I am wondering if a narrative about the criminal justice system
being used to monitor, marginalize, and incarcerate poor people
would go over better than a narrative
about mass incarnation based on race.



also...

I am wondering if people actually think that rich people commit less crimes
than poor people.




  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
more $$ gets you a better legal defense
Feb 21st 2015
1
yes/no
Feb 23rd 2015
21
does it also buy the right to not have cops patrol your neighborhood?
Feb 23rd 2015
31
glad Bob McDonnell is going… but quotas
Feb 21st 2015
2
bad for business
Feb 21st 2015
3
Because being poor is the biggest crime in the US
Feb 21st 2015
4
^ right?
Feb 22nd 2015
5
Lapses in judgement aren't punishable. Plus white.
Feb 22nd 2015
6
Because their personal and professional networks incl influential ppl
Feb 23rd 2015
7
could you elaborate on this?
Feb 23rd 2015
8
YEP
Feb 23rd 2015
9
so how is it being quantified?
Feb 23rd 2015
10
it isnt
Feb 23rd 2015
11
I gotta agree with SPM here
Feb 23rd 2015
12
      so you think the affluenza case is an anomally
Feb 23rd 2015
13
           Probably far less common than nothing-to-lose syndrome
Feb 23rd 2015
14
                so...
Feb 23rd 2015
20
all crime.
Feb 23rd 2015
15
      so you discount desparation as a motivator?
Feb 23rd 2015
16
           thats rarely a real motivator.
Feb 23rd 2015
18
           So the "poor kids sell drugs because they have to" narrative is false?
Feb 23rd 2015
22
                those too.
Feb 23rd 2015
23
           are people that take office supplis home desperate for paper?
Feb 23rd 2015
19
They can get lighter sentences
Feb 23rd 2015
17
nypd "work stoppage" showed patrolling = poor ppl tax
Feb 23rd 2015
24
yo the wizard of oz curtain got yanked!
Feb 23rd 2015
25
I agree.
Feb 23rd 2015
26
The police are the largest regulatory and fining governmental organizati...
Feb 23rd 2015
27
say it again.
Feb 23rd 2015
28
the head of the organization got years
Feb 23rd 2015
29
      yet, most ppl in prison are broke ppl in jail for using.
Feb 23rd 2015
30
           probably more petty crime == more police presence
Feb 23rd 2015
32
           Just saw this in Slate
Feb 23rd 2015
33
                interesting.
Feb 23rd 2015
34
Their criminal histories.
Feb 23rd 2015
35
ahh.
Feb 23rd 2015
36

SooperEgo
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Sat Feb-21-15 06:12 PM

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1. "more $$ gets you a better legal defense"
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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SoWhat
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Mon Feb-23-15 12:03 PM

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21. "yes/no"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

I haven't seen a case where more $$ for the defense would've made a big difference. Also, I haven't seen it true that attorneys who work in public defender offices are less competent or less willing to go to trial than private attorneys. In fact I've seen privates try fewer cases bc defendants don't want to or cannot afford to pay for a trial.

fuck you.

  

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Joe Corn Mo
Member since Aug 29th 2010
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Mon Feb-23-15 04:27 PM

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31. "does it also buy the right to not have cops patrol your neighborhood?"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

because that seems kinda fucked up.

if we, as a society, think drug use is a problem,
we should want ALL people to feel the threat of arrest for recreational drug use.

Rich fratboys at white colleges.
Wall street executives.
Folks in the projects.

Why aren't rich ppl in our jails?

  

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sosumi
Member since May 30th 2012
801 posts
Sat Feb-21-15 07:15 PM

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2. "glad Bob McDonnell is going… but quotas"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

and policies keep stories like most recently told on ThisAmericanLife going…

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/548/cops-see-it-differently-part-two?act=1

before prison level, jail and a ridiculous record

also watching that Nas doc reveal the kids in his 90s photos are currently in prison or deceased...
so sadly felt

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Sat Feb-21-15 07:45 PM

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3. "bad for business"
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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Selassie I God
Member since Feb 21st 2006
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Sat Feb-21-15 07:46 PM

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4. "Because being poor is the biggest crime in the US"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

____
Some will tell you that they love you but they've got an ulterior motive - Oh what a shame
They will tell you that they need you but they've got an ulterior motive - Personal gain

(c) Luciano


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fg0-qndkemo

  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
13825 posts
Sun Feb-22-15 12:45 PM

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5. "^ right?"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

Pretty much from the start.

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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KingMonte
Member since Feb 13th 2006
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Sun Feb-22-15 03:13 PM

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6. "Lapses in judgement aren't punishable. Plus white."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I have a 400 year old chip on my shoulder.

...and a podcast
white nationalists vs EVERYBODY
https://wnve.podbean.com

  

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Cocobrotha2
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Mon Feb-23-15 10:31 AM

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7. "Because their personal and professional networks incl influential ppl"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Having powerful people vouch for you can help reduce or eliminate alot of legal bs.

<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->
<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->

  

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southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Mon Feb-23-15 11:12 AM

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8. "could you elaborate on this?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


>I am wondering if people actually think that rich people
>commit less crimes
>than poor people.

you think poor and rich people commit crimes at the same rate?
are we including traffic violations and private drug use?

~~~~~~

  

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lfresh
Member since Jun 18th 2002
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Mon Feb-23-15 11:19 AM

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9. "YEP"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          


>>I am wondering if people actually think that rich people
>>commit less crimes
>>than poor people.
>
>you think poor and rich people commit crimes at the same
>rate?
>are we including traffic violations and private drug use?

white collar crime
sheeeit murder, assault


that privilege?
just means they get out of it easier, or dont get looked at at all
connections means they dont go to court or go to jail
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

  

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southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
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Mon Feb-23-15 11:23 AM

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10. "so how is it being quantified?"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          


>just means they get out of it easier, or dont get looked at at
>all
>connections means they dont go to court or go to jail

~~~~~~

  

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lfresh
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Mon Feb-23-15 11:34 AM

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11. "it isnt"
In response to Reply # 10
Mon Feb-23-15 11:36 AM by lfresh

  

          

people are too busy studying the poor and working class

http://www.discoversociety.org/2014/12/01/viewpoint-the-rich-the-elephant-in-the-sociology-room/

http://thesocietypages.org/eye/2008/06/13/the-%E2%80%9Clucky-rich%E2%80%9D-emergence-of-a-new-social-class/


~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

  

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John Forte
Member since Feb 22nd 2013
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Mon Feb-23-15 11:35 AM

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12. "I gotta agree with SPM here"
In response to Reply # 9


          

if we exclude personal drug use and traffic offenses, there's no way rich people commit as many crimes per capita than poor people. Most criminals are criminals because of lack of opportunity, not character.

  

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lfresh
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Mon Feb-23-15 11:37 AM

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13. "so you think the affluenza case is an anomally"
In response to Reply # 12


  

          


~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

  

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John Forte
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Mon Feb-23-15 11:43 AM

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14. "Probably far less common than nothing-to-lose syndrome"
In response to Reply # 13


          

  

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lfresh
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20. "so..."
In response to Reply # 14
Mon Feb-23-15 12:04 PM by lfresh

  

          

"the threat of legal consequences will appear empty since the person hadn’t experienced consequences before."


that privilege is not something more rich folks are inclined to be privy to
and the combination of money, power and privilege routinely and historical combines to allow a vacuum of absolute power

and as you know the very old saying goes
absolute power corrupts...
say it with me

with that i'm not sure why you would think that people who CAN get away with things...dont

human psychology just doesn't work that way, sorry


btw that kids dad?
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/20/us-usa-texas-affluenza-idUSKBN0GK1GO20140820

Father of Texas 'affluenza' teen arrested for impersonating police officer
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

  

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Joe Corn Mo
Member since Aug 29th 2010
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Mon Feb-23-15 11:52 AM

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15. "all crime. "
In response to Reply # 8
Mon Feb-23-15 11:55 AM by Joe Corn Mo

  

          

drug use.
theft.

(Yes, the shit that gets embezzled from the office is crime
just like the shit that gets shoplifted from convenience stores)

insider trading is also counts as crime.
as does fraud, etc.

you know, shit rich ppl obviously do.


it is my contention that rich and poor peole commit an equal amount of crime.

but the police do not monitor rich people.
which essentially means they can (and do) commit crime beyond the reach of the
criminal justice system.



>>I am wondering if people actually think that rich people
>>commit less crimes
>>than poor people.
>
>you think poor and rich people commit crimes at the same
>rate?
>are we including traffic violations and private drug use?
>

  

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John Forte
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Mon Feb-23-15 11:53 AM

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16. "so you discount desparation as a motivator?"
In response to Reply # 15


          

  

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SoWhat
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18. "thats rarely a real motivator."
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

I see desperation as motivation for crimes like retail theft (stealing toiletries or food for personal use) but rarely for the crimes that give ppl fits.

fuck you.

  

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John Forte
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22. "So the "poor kids sell drugs because they have to" narrative is false?"
In response to Reply # 18


          

that opens a whole other can of worms.

  

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SoWhat
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23. "those too."
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

not all of them though.

fuck you.

  

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Joe Corn Mo
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19. "are people that take office supplis home desperate for paper?"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

are wealthy ppl that do illegal trades desperate for more money?


sure some crime occurs because of desperation,
but some crime occurs because ppl just felt like doing it.

I am sure if rich ppl were monitored like poor ppl,
we'd find just as much crime.

but we don't even think of white collar crime as being crime.
which is kinda my point.

the justice system is here to incarcerate poor ppl,
not to stop crime.

if we were focused on stopping crime,
maybe somebody in the criminal justice system would
have been working on stopping illegal shit that led
to the great recession.

but now I am reaching.

You see my point though.

  

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SoWhat
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17. "They can get lighter sentences"
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Feb-23-15 12:24 PM by SoWhat

  

          

in part bc sentencing judges tend to believe rich ppl will comply with the terms of probation b/c they have "so much" to lose. Also they are more likely to be able to pay heavy fines in lieu of jail or prison time. So they get probation sentences more often. Plus, judges are more likely to give the rich sentences that won't destroy their futures perhaps b/c the potential destruction is more easily understood.

fuck you.

  

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Riot
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24. "nypd "work stoppage" showed patrolling = poor ppl tax"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

level of crime being unchanged with or without the current form of patrolling, lifestyle arrests, citations etc shows that the only reason behind it and benefit from it is rob from the poor to give to the rich


kinda amazing how that whole 'hamsterdam' experiment happened and was immediately forgotten/ignored with everybody afraid to speak on what the larger implications are



also rich ppl connections and white privilege allow for ridiculous shtt like

-the last 2 affluenza cases
-case out west where dude actually did get indicted, and judge just decided he didnt agree with the jury and refused to send the guy to jail
-just watched wolf of wall st. bruh got 3 yrs for robbing hundreds of millions and ingesting more coke than avg cornerboy ever seen
-white boy in philly suburbs had a distro org, sellin to a ring of highschools (nevermind just being x feet away from a school zone), got the textbook "character witnesses"/he was depressed/gonna enroll in drug rehab -rich ppl defense and got 3months+work release up to 2 yrs max. and judge told him hes got a bright future.



)))--####---###--(((

bunda
<-.-> ^_^ \^0^/
get busy living, or get busy dying.

  

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lfresh
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25. "yo the wizard of oz curtain got yanked!"
In response to Reply # 24


  

          


~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

  

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SoWhat
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26. "I agree."
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

fuck you.

  

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calij81
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27. "The police are the largest regulatory and fining governmental organizati..."
In response to Reply # 24


          

That currently exist in the U.S.

  

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Joe Corn Mo
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28. "say it again. "
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

  

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southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
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29. "the head of the organization got years"
In response to Reply # 24


  

          


>-white boy in philly suburbs had a distro org, sellin to a
>ring of highschools (nevermind just being x feet away from a
>school zone), got the textbook "character witnesses"/he was
>depressed/gonna enroll in drug rehab -rich ppl defense and got
> 3months+work release up to 2 yrs max. and judge told him hes
>got a bright future.
>


the guy you are talking about was the connect to the high schools , probably because he was 17/18
and it's likely that he flipped and got a deal

~~~~~~

  

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Joe Corn Mo
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30. "yet, most ppl in prison are broke ppl in jail for using. "
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

rich ppl use drugs, too.
but they ain't in jail.

why aren't rich ppl monitored, prosecuted, and sentenced the same way?

let's leave race out of it.
why are only poor people in jail?

Certainly it's not because the do drugs less.

>
>>-white boy in philly suburbs had a distro org, sellin to a
>>ring of highschools (nevermind just being x feet away from a
>>school zone), got the textbook "character witnesses"/he was
>>depressed/gonna enroll in drug rehab -rich ppl defense and
>got
>> 3months+work release up to 2 yrs max. and judge told him
>hes
>>got a bright future.
>>
>
>
>the guy you are talking about was the connect to the high
>schools , probably because he was 17/18
>and it's likely that he flipped and got a deal
>

  

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southphillyman
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32. "probably more petty crime == more police presence "
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

have you lived in the hood then lived in an affluent area (or vice versa)
just look at the local crime reports
my friend drunkenly left $400 on the seat of his bmw friday night
and didn't realize and get it until 1pm saturday
if he lived in the hood that shit would have been GONE before the sun came up
it's just a different environment where more petty shit comes up and so the police are more active

~~~~~~

  

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Teknontheou
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33. "Just saw this in Slate"
In response to Reply # 30
Mon Feb-23-15 05:55 PM by Teknontheou

  

          

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/crime/2015/02/mass_incarceration_a_provocative_new_theory_for_why_so_many_americans_are.html

It's kind of counterintuitive by stating that a relatively small amount of the prison population is there for drugs. It's mostly non-drug violent crime.

  

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Joe Corn Mo
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34. "interesting. "
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

I need to look into that for sure.

  

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SoWhat
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35. "Their criminal histories."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Most ppl sentenced to prison have prior convictions in their criminal histories. They often start with misdemeanors and progress to felonies. Once they stack up enough of those - even if probation or court supervision - it becomes nearly impossible to resolve cases without prison or jail time or to get a probation sentence after trial.

fuck you.

  

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Joe Corn Mo
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Mon Feb-23-15 11:32 PM

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36. "ahh. "
In response to Reply # 35


  

          

Yeah.

  

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