Printer-friendly copy Email this topic to a friend
Lobby General Discussion topic #12666691

Subject: ""I worked hard" - The Elitist Delusion" Previous topic | Next topic
Paradeofegos
Member since Apr 06th 2014
106 posts
Thu Dec-04-14 06:23 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
""I worked hard" - The Elitist Delusion"
Thu Dec-04-14 06:52 AM by Paradeofegos

          

"I worked hard" - Elitist delusion.

Ok, so I keep hearing elitist repeat the phrase, "I worked hard for this"
Is it that they believe it is physically possible for one human to be able to work 1000x - 100,000,000 times hard than another?! lol
It's not even possible, it doesn't make sense.
They need to admit that the only reason they have so much more wealth is that what their job or service they provide either helps or promotes the current status-quo in some way.
Or worse they are part of the exploitative investor class (Earning money off the back of workers you own shares in is not hard work)
If you do work hard it can be no more than any other person and even if you did work harder it wouldn't be more than 2 or 3 x times- if that! (still dont think that's physically possible either)
so keep lying to yourself that your hard work justify's gluttony.

.
Don't take so much of the pie in the first place and then you wont have to go play the good samaritan and hand out crumbs when your done eating.
People shouldn't have to rely on charity. The nerve of people to feel good about giving back to the community what should of already been theirs in the first place.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top


Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
Agree 100%. There is no amount of hard work that can earn you 1B.
Dec 04th 2014
1
she did work hard. but that's something most people can do.
Dec 04th 2014
3
      RE: she did work hard. but that's something most people can do.
Dec 04th 2014
4
           Well another aspect is that alot of well paying jobs are abotu relations...
Dec 04th 2014
5
           I was once offered a job
Dec 04th 2014
7
           also
Dec 04th 2014
21
           Pretty big oversimplification imo
Dec 04th 2014
8
                RE: Pretty big oversimplification imo
Dec 04th 2014
9
                There's such a thing as a PHD and an Associate's degree
Dec 04th 2014
10
                This will be ignored.
Dec 04th 2014
57
                RE: Pretty big oversimplification imo
Dec 04th 2014
11
                Yeah that's bullshit.
Dec 04th 2014
13
                     RE: Yeah that's bullshit.
Dec 04th 2014
14
                          I did it. It wasn't that hard.
Dec 04th 2014
18
                               and you can honestly say a cashier, construction worker,
Dec 04th 2014
22
                                    I didn't say they should be paid as much....
Dec 04th 2014
24
                                    Stages.........do you know how she did in school?
Dec 04th 2014
27
                                         please stop.
Dec 04th 2014
28
                                         It's not about life being fair or not. If a person wants to make it,
Dec 04th 2014
29
                                              fine.
Dec 04th 2014
30
                                              Let's say you're right, and all you have to do is bust your ass early
Dec 04th 2014
31
                                                   this is not about "meritocracy" or "all you have to do is"
Dec 04th 2014
32
                                                        See how these replies started on the left, and now they're over here
Dec 04th 2014
33
                                         Not to be condescending but I find that incredibly naive.
Dec 04th 2014
34
                                              You did the work. Some folks are dropping out.
Dec 04th 2014
35
                                              we got lucky.
Dec 04th 2014
37
                                              The bottom line: All responsible parents are going to tell their
Dec 04th 2014
40
                                                   did i click on another post?
Dec 04th 2014
42
                                                        RE: did i click on another post?
Dec 04th 2014
43
                                                             k
Dec 04th 2014
44
                                              You didn't quite take the same impression from my telling the story...
Dec 05th 2014
61
                                              man, EMT's make damn near fast food money
Dec 04th 2014
51
                                    Probably did work hard or harder
Dec 04th 2014
55
                                         RE: Probably did work hard or harder
Dec 04th 2014
56
                                              Being afforded the opportunity to go to an Ivy League school...
Dec 04th 2014
58
                                                   RE: Being afforded the opportunity to go to an Ivy League school...
Dec 04th 2014
59
                                                        There are plenty of people who get into ivies based on connections.
Dec 05th 2014
66
                                                        The Big story is actually how Ivies are being racist towards Asians.
Dec 05th 2014
69
                                                             they don't hear you though.
Dec 05th 2014
73
oh so you on that socialism steez huh....
Dec 04th 2014
2
Are you talking real elitists or 'elitists' on this board?
Dec 04th 2014
6
in some cases, it's true...
Dec 04th 2014
12
I love that people act like they know what it takes to make 1B lol
Dec 04th 2014
15
No but we do know people who work impossibly hard and
Dec 04th 2014
16
So what.
Dec 04th 2014
17
      You're not getting the spirit of this post
Dec 04th 2014
19
      Jesus Christ nobody said rich ppl don't work hard.
Dec 04th 2014
20
           Thats not the impilcation. Thats YOUR reaction.
Dec 04th 2014
23
           cool.
Dec 04th 2014
26
           For me it's about the amount of room at the top
Dec 04th 2014
25
                What a rare, refreshing moment of sanity and nuance! Bravo!
Dec 04th 2014
38
                national living wage. australia's is at like $18-$20 an hour
Dec 05th 2014
74
                RE: For me it's about the amount of room at the top
Dec 05th 2014
76
Some people learn stuff by doing things other than watching movies.
Dec 04th 2014
36
This whole post is hot air
Dec 04th 2014
39
i absolutely have.
Dec 04th 2014
41
      RE: i absolutely have.
Dec 04th 2014
45
           here's what i know.
Dec 04th 2014
46
                Sure
Dec 04th 2014
49
                RE: here's what i know.
Dec 06th 2014
80
                     i've been around the block enough times to know how it is.
Dec 06th 2014
82
                          Did you have a response for what Concrete said in reply # 79?
Dec 06th 2014
83
                               i've accomplished shit.
Dec 06th 2014
84
                                    RE: i've accomplished shit.
Dec 06th 2014
85
You're going to have to work hard to make a lot of money...
Dec 04th 2014
47
HOW CAN YOU TOLERATE SUCH INJUSTICE
Dec 04th 2014
48
reply #46
Dec 04th 2014
50
Nope. When it comes to MAKING a lot of money...
Dec 04th 2014
54
      You can, however do so with an average work ethic
Dec 05th 2014
68
You are wrong. Do you deny that some ppl who don't work hard make a lot....
Dec 05th 2014
63
loving what you do >>>>>> working hard
Dec 04th 2014
52
POSTJACK: Have we talked about all of the hurt "people" on Bomani's time...
Dec 04th 2014
53
oh he makes people mad on a daily basis.
Dec 05th 2014
62
      Oh go back to jizzing over yt women and keep your mouth shut
Dec 05th 2014
64
This year, my opinon has shifted on the supposed virtue of hard work
Dec 04th 2014
60
good stuff.
Dec 05th 2014
65
but all that goes with working hard.
Dec 05th 2014
67
Poverty also goes with working hard.
Dec 05th 2014
72
      *claps for children with immigrant parents*
Jan 16th 2015
90
The thing is psych 101 teaches us that we attribute our success to our
Dec 05th 2014
70
memba when Charles Barkley said "working is overrated"?
Dec 05th 2014
71
The decades of war on unions is why half the US is at/near poverty
Dec 05th 2014
75
*standing ovation*
Jan 16th 2015
87
      thank man. lots of research to take over anecdotes too
Jan 16th 2015
89
hard work doesnt necessarily equate to money
Dec 05th 2014
77
this, and hard ≠ smart.
Dec 06th 2014
78
Do you think that is what they mean? LOL
Dec 06th 2014
79
RE: Do you think that is what they mean? LOL
Dec 06th 2014
81
      time for you and them alike to forsake wealth as meritocracy
Jan 16th 2015
93
American Issue.
Jan 16th 2015
86
I disagree. I have worked with several high profile people.
Jan 16th 2015
88
my mom worked 80 hour work weeks
Jan 16th 2015
91
at the end of the day more effort >>>> less effort
Jan 16th 2015
92
RE: "I worked hard" - The Elitist Delusion
Jan 16th 2015
94

Buddy_Gilapagos
Charter member
44386 posts
Thu Dec-04-14 07:59 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
1. "Agree 100%. There is no amount of hard work that can earn you 1B."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

You earn 1B by being lucky, connected and smart even, but not by hard work.

My grandma who cleaned toilets and wiped old people's ass worked hard.

Funny, I was thinking of doing a similar post about the obnoxiousness of successful people but couldn't think of the right way to frame it.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

http://blackpeopleonlocalnews.tumblr.com/

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
78325 posts
Thu Dec-04-14 08:44 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
3. "she did work hard. but that's something most people can do."
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Paradeofegos
Member since Apr 06th 2014
106 posts
Thu Dec-04-14 09:07 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
4. "RE: she did work hard. but that's something most people can do."
In response to Reply # 3
Thu Dec-04-14 09:23 AM by Paradeofegos

          

You watch too many superhero movies, no-one is that special.
Truth is that there are many people who can do these high paid jobs.
so many in fact they are constantly scared of being caught out as frauds or even replaced that they become uber-competitive and malicious to others who threaten their place- why be that way if you are so exceptionally talented?- because they know deep down that's not why they are where they are.

Alot of the times they were able to get these positions due to privilege or simply access others do not.
It's ok to be lucky, Perhaps that reality is just not enough for our ego's?
It must be because we are part of the top 10% of the human race, some kind of superior people or that God gifted you with special talents over everyone else and made you exceptional.
It's B.S and those who believe it know it- which is why they are constantly scared of being caught out or replaced.

Not only did that persons grandmother work hard, she truly did a job not many could do.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Buddy_Gilapagos
Charter member
44386 posts
Thu Dec-04-14 09:48 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
5. "Well another aspect is that alot of well paying jobs are abotu relations..."
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

It's a cliche to say it's all about who you know but I am discovering that there are alot of jobs were people are hired mainly because of their social and professional networks. The job is being able to call such and such a person.

I was thinking about doing another post about how people really don't want a meritocracy, they just access to certain networks but couldn't figure out how to frame that one as well.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

http://blackpeopleonlocalnews.tumblr.com/

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
John Forte
Member since Feb 22nd 2013
15295 posts
Thu Dec-04-14 10:01 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
7. "I was once offered a job "
In response to Reply # 5


          

Specifically because of a demographic to which I had access.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
lfresh
Member since Jun 18th 2002
92693 posts
Thu Dec-04-14 03:25 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
21. "also"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          


>I was thinking about doing another post about how people
>really don't want a meritocracy, they just access to certain
>networks but couldn't figure out how to frame that one as
>well.


what that person is willing to do
i can be alot further
but frankly its some bullshit
and i'm not the stand on someone else heads type for this shit
maybe some other shit
but not this shit
and this shit pays decently so fuck it

i agree though my mom was pretty much your grandmother and worked her ass off
if she has less of an accent and more connections
shes said it and she see it
she could have gone far
its a particular type of ambition and willingness combined with connections to do particular type of work
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Wonderl33t
Member since Jul 11th 2002
21405 posts
Thu Dec-04-14 10:49 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
8. "Pretty big oversimplification imo"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

Getting to those highly paid executive positions takes a lifetime of learning an industry and building networks. Certainly more attainable to some than others, but it's not like anyone can waltz in and do the job of an exec like you say.

Sure, some execs are bad at their jobs, just like many athletes are overpaid. But in general, your argument is faulty.

The "hard work" is years of diligence, focus, ladder-climbing, likely ass-kissing, and also likely a sociopathic dedication to the bottom line. It's delusional to think that anyone could step in and handle that.

I am in my 3rd year working in an office where you're basically a noob if you aren't making 6 figures...I'm still in that pool personally, but not for long. I see firsthand every day the stuff it takes to get to those positions. Do I want to take that path? Not really. Fortunately for me, I can stay a rogue and make bank without selling my soul or kissing too much ass, but I won't be seeing the millions like those guys, either.

> You watch too many superhero movies, no-one is that
>special.
> Truth is that there are many people who can do these high
>paid jobs.
>so many in fact they are constantly scared of being caught out
>as frauds or even replaced that they become uber-competitive
>and malicious to others who threaten their place- why be that
>way if you are so exceptionally talented?- because they know
>deep down that's not why they are where they are.
>
> Alot of the times they were able to get these positions due
>to privilege or simply access others do not.
>It's ok to be lucky, Perhaps that reality is just not enough
>for our ego's?
> It must be because we are part of the top 10% of the human
>race, some kind of superior people or that God gifted you with
>special talents over everyone else and made you exceptional.
>It's B.S and those who believe it know it- which is why they
>are constantly scared of being caught out or replaced.
>
>Not only did that persons grandmother work hard, she truly did
>a job not many could do.


______________________________
http://i.imgur.com/81XSukd.jpg

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
Paradeofegos
Member since Apr 06th 2014
106 posts
Thu Dec-04-14 02:07 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
9. "RE: Pretty big oversimplification imo"
In response to Reply # 8


          

I think you kinda agree.
Not saying anyone isn't working hard- just that no-one is working that much harder than another person.
They realize this and use defensive arguments like "They worked hard" as if to imply that their pay is a reflection of how much "harder" they worked. just not the case. not humanly possible.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
c71
Member since Jan 15th 2008
10694 posts
Thu Dec-04-14 02:12 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
10. "There's such a thing as a PHD and an Associate's degree"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

There's such a thing as an Ivy League College and a community college.


Some folks got a PHD at an Ivy league college.

They worked WAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYY more harder than uh, me.


They definitely deserve more money than me.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                        
PoppaGeorge
Member since Nov 07th 2004
10384 posts
Thu Dec-04-14 08:53 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
57. "This will be ignored."
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

Because of how much -fact- is in it.


---------------------------

forcing myself to actually respond to you is like bathing in ebola virus. - Binlahab

Like there is stupid, and then there is you, and then there is dead. - VAsBestBBW

R.I.P. Disco D

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
Wonderl33t
Member since Jul 11th 2002
21405 posts
Thu Dec-04-14 02:18 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
11. "RE: Pretty big oversimplification imo"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

I think you need to give your definition of "work" before any sense can be made of this. My definition of work is all of those things I listed. It sounds like you equate work with physical things like swinging a hammer or moving a pen across a page.

> I think you kinda agree.
> Not saying anyone isn't working hard- just that no-one is
>working that much harder than another person.
>They realize this and use defensive arguments like "They
>worked hard" as if to imply that their pay is a reflection of
>how much "harder" they worked. just not the case. not humanly
>possible.


______________________________
http://i.imgur.com/81XSukd.jpg

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
Buddy_Gilapagos
Charter member
44386 posts
Thu Dec-04-14 02:38 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
13. "Yeah that's bullshit. "
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

>Getting to those highly paid executive positions takes a
>lifetime of learning an industry and building networks.


A first year associate at a Big Law law firm starts off making 160k. For many it's their first real job.

Investment bankers it's even worst because they make a similar salary but can earn huge bonuses.

Sure alot of them studied hard in school and work long hours while at that job but the work work is not that hard. And by saying it's not that hard I mean that there are alot of people who would be capable to do the work if the industries were accessible. But the industries are not accessible and it's only open to a select few people who went to certain schools or come from certain families.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

http://blackpeopleonlocalnews.tumblr.com/

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
c71
Member since Jan 15th 2008
10694 posts
Thu Dec-04-14 02:48 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
14. "RE: Yeah that's bullshit. "
In response to Reply # 13
Thu Dec-04-14 02:49 PM by c71

  

          

>A first year associate at a Big Law law firm starts off making
>160k. For many it's their first real job.


>
>Sure alot of them studied hard in school and work long hours


Nah, whatever preparation it takes from Undergrad to Law School to get hired by "a Big Law law firm" is work that is wayyyyyyyyyy "harder" than what the average worker does.

"Studying Hard" doesn't begin to approach what those type of law students did.

And the workload undertaken to excel at "a Big Law law firm" after being hired is also WAAAAAYYYYYYYYY more demanding "work" than what MOST could do.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                        
Buddy_Gilapagos
Charter member
44386 posts
Thu Dec-04-14 03:13 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
18. "I did it. It wasn't that hard. "
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

>>A first year associate at a Big Law law firm starts off
>making
>>160k. For many it's their first real job.
>
>
>>
>>Sure alot of them studied hard in school and work long hours
>
>
>Nah, whatever preparation it takes from Undergrad to Law
>School to get hired by "a Big Law law firm" is work that is
>wayyyyyyyyyy "harder" than what the average worker does.
>
>"Studying Hard" doesn't begin to approach what those type of
>law students did.
>
>And the workload undertaken to excel at "a Big Law law firm"
>after being hired is also WAAAAAYYYYYYYYY more demanding
>"work" than what MOST could do.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

http://blackpeopleonlocalnews.tumblr.com/

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                            
c71
Member since Jan 15th 2008
10694 posts
Thu Dec-04-14 04:23 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
22. "and you can honestly say a cashier, construction worker,"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

cab driver, security guard could also do what you did OR should be paid as much as you get paid?


Or they worked as hard as you did?

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                
Buddy_Gilapagos
Charter member
44386 posts
Thu Dec-04-14 04:35 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
24. "I didn't say they should be paid as much...."
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

this woman definitely worked harder than me.

http://www.businessinsider.com/its-hard-to-live-on-minimum-wage-2014-10

I don't think I deserved to be paid 8 times what she was making.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

http://blackpeopleonlocalnews.tumblr.com/

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                    
c71
Member since Jan 15th 2008
10694 posts
Thu Dec-04-14 04:49 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
27. "Stages.........do you know how she did in school?"
In response to Reply # 24


  

          


Because you said "I did it" when it came to Undergrad, Law School and getting hired by a Law firm (and presumably not getting fired in a few months at that Law firm).


If a person doesn't do the work at the High School to Undergrad stage, you can't say they WORKED Hard WHEN IT COUNTED THE MOST.


If a person messes up the High School and Undergrad stage, that puts them in a zone to "work hard" without a decent financial result/pay check.


Do I wish jobs for people who didn't excel in school got paid a living wage? Yes I do. It's clear however people who do the work IN THE EARLY STAGES USUALLY REAP REAL BENEFITS THAT THEY DESERVE.

Early stages (eduacation) = preparation

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                        
Joe Corn Mo
Member since Aug 29th 2010
15139 posts
Thu Dec-04-14 05:05 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
28. "please stop. "
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

you can do well (exceptionally well) in school
and get assed out.

because life is not fair.
as you know.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                            
c71
Member since Jan 15th 2008
10694 posts
Thu Dec-04-14 05:12 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
29. "It's not about life being fair or not. If a person wants to make it,"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

stepping up at the STAGES is the key.


I'm all for taxing billionaires and millionaires EXTREMELY high and having very generous social programs and living wage laws WAY higher than "minimum wage" requirements.

However

We all know, if people don't want to struggle, they have to take care of stuff AS EARLY IN THE EARLY STAGES AS POSSIBLE.


There is no getting around that.

You don't do that, that's usually a guarantee that you are going to hit tough times.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                                
Joe Corn Mo
Member since Aug 29th 2010
15139 posts
Thu Dec-04-14 05:13 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
30. "fine. "
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                                
John Forte
Member since Feb 22nd 2013
15295 posts
Thu Dec-04-14 05:16 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
31. "Let's say you're right, and all you have to do is bust your ass early"
In response to Reply # 29


          

Harvard rejects 80% of applicants who were HS valedictorians and 25% of applicants with PERFECT SAT scores. Do you know who they accept? A lot of exceptional people and a lot more connected people. This country is not a true meritocracy at any STAGE

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                                    
c71
Member since Jan 15th 2008
10694 posts
Thu Dec-04-14 05:22 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
32. "this is not about "meritocracy" or "all you have to do is""
In response to Reply # 31


  

          

It's about COMMON SENSE.


For all of you who are parents (or who are going to be parents).....


you all know you will (or already are) teaching your kids.....


"Do your best as early as possible"


You are not going to tell your kids "life isn't fair so....just do what you feel like doing without thinking of your future"


You are going to (or already are) teach your kids about stepping up as early as possible.


You can't get around that. It has to be taught no matter how unfair the world (or Yale or Harvard) is.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                                        
John Forte
Member since Feb 22nd 2013
15295 posts
Thu Dec-04-14 05:24 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
33. "See how these replies started on the left, and now they're over here"
In response to Reply # 32


          

That's how your goalpoasts have shifted.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                        
Buddy_Gilapagos
Charter member
44386 posts
Thu Dec-04-14 05:36 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
34. "Not to be condescending but I find that incredibly naive. "
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

I went to a regular public school in rural virginia. Wasn't terrible but wasn't the greatest. I took Calculus by watching a television show broadcast from a better school.

As smart as I thought I was I ended up being 4th in my class.

The white girl who was number 2 ended up going to Uva and becoming a doctor. She was straight.

The black kid who I went to church with who was number 3, he wanted to be a doctor went to UVa got his butt but graduated and ended up becoming an EMT. Not bad (not the greatest outcome).

My Val, who I was in the same class for 12 years who always scored higher than men on everything? She flunked out after one semester at VCU. She is the manager of a local restaurant.

How do we explain the differences of outcome?

All 3 who graduated ahead of me worked harder.

I think two of them (the Val and Sal) were actually smarter than me.

Me and the Sal who ended up being the doctor were the only ones from two parent household and I who ended up going to the highest ranked school was the only one who had two parents who both had advance degrees.

I hit the genetic/home lotto. There are a lot of kids you can put in my household and they would do well. my parents fostered a kid. He is graduating from college next year, first in his family. His oldest brother who my parents did not raise is in jail for a double homicide.


It ain't a meritocracy.



>
>Because you said "I did it" when it came to Undergrad, Law
>School and getting hired by a Law firm (and presumably not
>getting fired in a few months at that Law firm).
>
>
>If a person doesn't do the work at the High School to
>Undergrad stage, you can't say they WORKED Hard WHEN IT
>COUNTED THE MOST.
>
>
>If a person messes up the High School and Undergrad stage,
>that puts them in a zone to "work hard" without a decent
>financial result/pay check.
>
>
>Do I wish jobs for people who didn't excel in school got paid
>a living wage? Yes I do. It's clear however people who do the
>work IN THE EARLY STAGES USUALLY REAP REAL BENEFITS THAT THEY
>DESERVE.
>
>Early stages (eduacation) = preparation


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

http://blackpeopleonlocalnews.tumblr.com/

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                            
c71
Member since Jan 15th 2008
10694 posts
Thu Dec-04-14 05:41 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
35. "You did the work. Some folks are dropping out."
In response to Reply # 34


  

          

I'm not reading any examples in your reply about people not doing the work.

So, what am I to make of a reply of kids who did the work and ended up with careers?


  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                                
Joe Corn Mo
Member since Aug 29th 2010
15139 posts
Thu Dec-04-14 05:53 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
37. "we got lucky. "
In response to Reply # 35


  

          

honestly, that's it.

how many kids tried pot?
how many got arrest records and now can't become JAG attorneys?
what's the difference between me and the folks that didn't.

in some cases, it's just luck.
and the fact that ppl won't acknowledge it is baffling.



but what if i didn't do anything illegal as a kid.
never shoplifted. never tresspassed an abandoned house.
never drank underage. got all A's.
Did everything right.

what happens if i go off to school, get a good job,
but nobody every schooled me on how to network.
nobody even showed me how to meet the right ppl or even know who the right ppl are to know.

are you going to sit at your keyboard
and tell me that the ppl moving in front of me are "working harder?"

what if the next step in my career is to take an unpaid internship in DC for a year?


are the ppl that have a nest egg to be able to do that "working harder?"
i mean seriously.




>I'm not reading any examples in your reply about people not
>doing the work.
>
>So, what am I to make of a reply of kids who did the work and
>ended up with careers?
>
>
>

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                                    
c71
Member since Jan 15th 2008
10694 posts
Thu Dec-04-14 06:41 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
40. "The bottom line: All responsible parents are going to tell their"
In response to Reply # 37


  

          

kids to do their best as early as possible.

That will always be the case and that is what should be done.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                                        
Joe Corn Mo
Member since Aug 29th 2010
15139 posts
Thu Dec-04-14 06:44 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
42. "did i click on another post?"
In response to Reply # 40
Thu Dec-04-14 06:46 PM by Joe Corn Mo

  

          


do you want to have a new argument now?
because this...

>kids to do their best as early as possible.
>
>That will always be the case and that is what should be done.



has absolutely nothing to do with the OP.

i don't even know what you think we are talking about.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                                            
c71
Member since Jan 15th 2008
10694 posts
Thu Dec-04-14 06:49 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
43. "RE: did i click on another post?"
In response to Reply # 42


  

          

>
>do you want to have a new argument now?
>because this...
>


Reply #32 didn't seem to confuse you, or it slipped by you...Hmmmmmm....



>>kids to do their best as early as possible.
>>
>>That will always be the case and that is what should be
>done.
>
>
>
>has absolutely nothing to do with the OP.
>
>i don't even know what you think we are talking about.
>


Do their best = working hard



  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                                                
Joe Corn Mo
Member since Aug 29th 2010
15139 posts
Thu Dec-04-14 06:53 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
44. "k"
In response to Reply # 43


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                                
Buddy_Gilapagos
Charter member
44386 posts
Fri Dec-05-14 12:26 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
61. "You didn't quite take the same impression from my telling the story..."
In response to Reply # 35


  

          

that I did from living the story. that's my storytelling bad.

Cut to the chase the story I am trying to convey is that it had nothing to do with brains or hardworking. it had a lot to do with things you don't control like who you parents were.

This is helpful though because i have been wanting to write about it but clearly I am not ready to .


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

http://blackpeopleonlocalnews.tumblr.com/

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                            
Mynoriti
Charter member
34395 posts
Thu Dec-04-14 07:56 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
51. "man, EMT's make damn near fast food money"
In response to Reply # 34


  

          

or is he a paramedic? they get paid ok, but probably still underpaid considering what they do.

>The black kid who I went to church with who was number 3, he
>wanted to be a doctor went to UVa got his butt but graduated
>and ended up becoming an EMT. Not bad (not the greatest
>outcome).

--------
http://ambitiondeficitdisorder.tumblr.com/

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                
ndibs
Member since Aug 06th 2012
12715 posts
Thu Dec-04-14 08:32 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
55. "Probably did work hard or harder "
In response to Reply # 22
Thu Dec-04-14 08:34 PM by ndibs

          

Ppl get ahead in America in large part because they don't have to work. They're afforded the opportunity to study and get degrees and make the right connections. Even the person who has to work part time through college has way less opportunity to make connections necessary for advancement. Then there's unpaid internships which are another privilege. But a lot of people don't have the opportunity to go to college period.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                    
c71
Member since Jan 15th 2008
10694 posts
Thu Dec-04-14 08:53 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
56. "RE: Probably did work hard or harder "
In response to Reply # 55


  

          

>Ppl get ahead in America in large part because they don't
>have to work. They're afforded the opportunity to study and
>get degrees and make the right connections.


Sorry, I'm a 42 year old man and I've seen people put in work to get somewhere.


Don't know why you think "afforded the opportunity to study and get degrees" isn't work - esp. at Ivy League Colleges - and especially if they get PHD degrees - but since you think that, me and you will never agree about what "work" is.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                        
ndibs
Member since Aug 06th 2012
12715 posts
Thu Dec-04-14 09:04 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
58. "Being afforded the opportunity to go to an Ivy League school... "
In response to Reply # 56


          

Is work? Your parents can either afford to send you or they can't.

It is a lot of work. So much so that good luck being competitive if you need to have a part time job.

Dif ppl have dif opportunities.

Some have the opportunity to do work that will get them ahead and some don't.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                            
c71
Member since Jan 15th 2008
10694 posts
Thu Dec-04-14 09:10 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
59. "RE: Being afforded the opportunity to go to an Ivy League school... "
In response to Reply # 58


  

          

>Is work? Your parents can either afford to send you or they
>can't.


No, they accept EXTREMELY high achievers at Ivy League schools.


I know people go on and on about Alumni relatives getting into Ivy League schools, but it has been in the media very often how Asians are becoming extremely prominent in Ivy League schools (without any family connections) because Asians are high achievers.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                                
Goldmind
Member since Oct 28th 2004
27522 posts
Fri Dec-05-14 12:52 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
66. "There are plenty of people who get into ivies based on connections."
In response to Reply # 59


          

People who work hard are often rejected in favor of people who didn't work as hard but have more money and familial legacy.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                                
Buddy_Gilapagos
Charter member
44386 posts
Fri Dec-05-14 01:05 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
69. "The Big story is actually how Ivies are being racist towards Asians. "
In response to Reply # 59


  

          

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/12/is-the-ivy-league-fair-to-asian-americans/266538/


Listen there are alot of people at Ivy league schools because they work hard. I think there are also alot of people there because of connections and being born into the right family.





>>Is work? Your parents can either afford to send you or
>they
>>can't.
>
>
>No, they accept EXTREMELY high achievers at Ivy League
>schools.
>
>
>I know people go on and on about Alumni relatives getting into
>Ivy League schools, but it has been in the media very often
>how Asians are becoming extremely prominent in Ivy League
>schools (without any family connections) because Asians are
>high achievers.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

http://blackpeopleonlocalnews.tumblr.com/

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                                    
Joe Corn Mo
Member since Aug 29th 2010
15139 posts
Fri Dec-05-14 02:48 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
73. "they don't hear you though. "
In response to Reply # 69


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

FLUIDJ
Member since Sep 18th 2002
41598 posts
Thu Dec-04-14 08:12 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
2. "oh so you on that socialism steez huh...."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
42073 posts
Thu Dec-04-14 09:51 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
6. "Are you talking real elitists or 'elitists' on this board?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

BigJazz
Charter member
24443 posts
Thu Dec-04-14 02:24 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
12. "in some cases, it's true..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

do you know any lazy ass people who do as little as possible?

if you do, there's a good chance that unless they were born wealthy, you make more money and have more things than they do.

so if in that instance, if they were to mention what you have, you could say you have it cuz you worked hard for it.

that'd be a true statement...



***
I'm tryna be better off, not better than...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Heinz
Member since Dec 26th 2003
19951 posts
Thu Dec-04-14 03:04 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
15. "I love that people act like they know what it takes to make 1B lol"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

oh word?.

Generalizing every situation based on a movies u seen where Daddy gives his kids a company is idiotic.

____

TWITTER : Heinz21st

IG : H_N_Z

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
John Forte
Member since Feb 22nd 2013
15295 posts
Thu Dec-04-14 03:06 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
16. "No but we do know people who work impossibly hard and "
In response to Reply # 15


          

don't make close to a billion. We know their failure wasn't for lack of hard work.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Heinz
Member since Dec 26th 2003
19951 posts
Thu Dec-04-14 03:09 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
17. "So what."
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

Why do u look at what they do as a failure? My father worked super hard and was never a boss. I never look at my father as a failure. But working hard doesnt always equate to you being the boss of a company. Because u see the guy at the top not doing the same job as the people he hires doesnt mean he doesnt work hard. That is ridiculous.


____

TWITTER : Heinz21st

IG : H_N_Z

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
John Forte
Member since Feb 22nd 2013
15295 posts
Thu Dec-04-14 03:19 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
19. "You're not getting the spirit of this post"
In response to Reply # 17


          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Joe Corn Mo
Member since Aug 29th 2010
15139 posts
Thu Dec-04-14 03:21 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
20. "Jesus Christ nobody said rich ppl don't work hard. "
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

> Because u see the guy at the top not
>doing the same job as the people he hires doesnt mean he
>doesnt work hard. That is ridiculous.
>


that's not the point here at all.
the point is, lots of ppl work hard.

a lot of janitors work hard.
a lot of doctors work hard.
a lot of drug dealers work hard.
hell-- a lot of unemployed ppl work hard trying to get a job.

working hard is not THAT unusual of a trait.



which is why it gets old when filthy rich ppl say they got their riches
because THEY worked hard.

the implication is that ppl without riches must not be working hard.
and yes, that is the implication. it's said by filthy rich people over and over again.

the point is, ppl that are extremely rich
are extremely rich because they got an advantage that they did not earn.
sometimes it's having money handed to them.
sometimes it's having your parents know other ppl that are good ppl to know.
sometimes it's having a cushion to go out on a limb and knowing you can call ppl of things go bust.

i could go on and on and on.


hard work, in and of itself, will not make you filthy rich.
it might not even get you to the point where you are more than three paychecks away from being homeless.

it is completely possible for ppl to inherit advantages they didn't earn,
and then leverage those advantages into new opportunities by working hard.




let me give you an example.
my parents had a piano in the house.
i didn't earn that piano.
it was just sitting there.

did i have to work hard to learn to play the motherfucker?
yes.
did i have an advantage over ppl that didn't have a piano?
yes.

now what if in addition to having a piano in the house,
my dad also knew ppl in the music business?

if i get a record contract, does that mean i didn't "work hard" for it?
no.


but there are plenty of hardworking musicians that will never get to where i got,
maybe with the same amount of effort.

possibly less.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
Heinz
Member since Dec 26th 2003
19951 posts
Thu Dec-04-14 04:30 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
23. "Thats not the impilcation. Thats YOUR reaction. "
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

Thats what YOU aren't getting. It comes off bitter. Its hard to take it serious when u turn around and dismiss their hard work because u thought they were implying something that offended u. U realize u are doing the same thing back? Circle of generalizations all stemmed from an implication lol foh.


____

TWITTER : Heinz21st

IG : H_N_Z

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
Joe Corn Mo
Member since Aug 29th 2010
15139 posts
Thu Dec-04-14 04:41 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
26. "cool. "
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
Ted Gee Seal
Member since Apr 18th 2007
10084 posts
Thu Dec-04-14 04:38 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
25. "For me it's about the amount of room at the top"
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

People talk as if we could all lift ourselves up by our bootstraps and be filthy rich as we want to be.

That's just not true. Even if everyone suddenly got their Steve Jobs on tomorrow (forgetting how much that would probably screw the world in general) we can't all sit at the top. Even if we're all educated and talented, someone still has to clean the toilet.

Given that we've created a society where someone's got to clean the toilet and pick up the rubbish, maybe let's think about what we can do to see that these people and their lives are valued at something higher than where the market sets the bar.

Just IMO though.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
40771 posts
Thu Dec-04-14 06:09 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
38. "What a rare, refreshing moment of sanity and nuance! Bravo! "
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

>People talk as if we could all lift ourselves up by our
>bootstraps and be filthy rich as we want to be.

>That's just not true. Even if everyone suddenly got their
>Steve Jobs on tomorrow (forgetting how much that would
>probably screw the world in general) we can't all sit at the
>top. Even if we're all educated and talented, someone still
>has to clean the toilet.

>Given that we've created a society where someone's got to
>clean the toilet and pick up the rubbish, maybe let's think
>about what we can do to see that these people and their lives
>are valued at something higher than where the market sets the
>bar.

Agreed!

It seems to me the “I worked hard for this” comments are typically heard as a response by successful people to criticism for their success. That really shouldn’t be the target here, but that seems to be the case. There are plenty of awful articles and books written that detail all the habits rich people do with the implication that if you would just get your act together YOU would be rich too. These are right to be ridiculed for their ignorance.

I also think it’s absurd for this conversation to center on the notion of hard work, as it creates obvious, artificial barriers that stifle any truly thoughtful discourse. Obviously not everyone who works hard gets rich, not everyone who is rich is rich solely because they worked hard, and not everyone who is poor is poor because they’re lazy. People tend to use those arguments as intellectual crutches; they’re made in large part because they’re easy to make, but the truth is most people readily admit the truth of all three factors.

I’d argue that most people would have a better lot in life if they did work harder. That doesn’t mean work harder at their given job, but work harder at home, going to school, brainstorming ideas, putting those ideas into play, etc. I’m sure many are eager to jump all over that statement, but I’m not saying it’s easy and I’m not discounting some of the lose-lose scenarios faced by many.

Still, I look around at people in my profession. I look at friends, relatives, etc, even myself and my wife. Damn near everyone I know would be better off in life if only for a little extra effort beyond subsistence level. Some of that work is character work, some of that work is schooling, and some of that work is sacrificing, say, nights playing their XBOX or zoning out in front of the tv for hours on end and trying to build some sort of side business to get ahead.

That said, not everyone even has the same abilities. Not everyone has the economic or social advantages, and the valid argument to make here is that the system so heavily favors those with some sort of advantage that the degree of difficulty for those without said advantages is exponentially greater, thereby ensuring only a few actually break through. This discrepancy yields a net loss for everyone up to and including the elite. The gross hoarding of wealth, the rising cost of higher education, the increasingly high qualifications for lower level positions, etc all conspire toward maintaining the status quo at a minimum with an eye toward widening the gap if at all possible. While I’m in the camp that doesn’t think flipping burgers necessarily warrants $15 an hour, I’m also in the camp that says better wages for more people equals a net gain for everyone, so why not?

An economy may be a system of checks and balances, but it’s all theoretical. A dollar is made up. The gold standard exists because people decided it exists. Nothing has any value apart from that which is mutually decided upon, and even that value is weighted against the perceptions of others in relation to their own perceived values. The unfortunate truth is that the solution to bridging these gaps really lies in a collective shifting of values, and until/unless we all decide a greater quality of life for everyone is more important than how much you and I can individually hoard for ourselves, we won’t see much of a difference for the little guys. The saddest part of all is that’s a mentality that would undoubtedly yield untold riches for everyone.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
rawsouthpaw
Charter member
15323 posts
Fri Dec-05-14 05:43 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
74. "national living wage. australia's is at like $18-$20 an hour"
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
Paradeofegos
Member since Apr 06th 2014
106 posts
Fri Dec-05-14 11:23 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
76. "RE: For me it's about the amount of room at the top"
In response to Reply # 25
Fri Dec-05-14 11:53 PM by Paradeofegos

          

Thank you!
No-one is a failure, no-one doesn't work hard.
I don't see why a janitor cant have their home paid for in 2 - 3 years like their bosses.
Why should they spend their whole life paying off a home or paying rent when the CEO and other high paid execs get enough money to set themselves up for life in just 1 - 2 years. (earning more in a year than most workers will earn in a lifetime!)

standard of living is the bare minimum, we are talking about true economic justice.

Fuck Atlas Shrugged. I really want that scenario to play out where all the high paid execs go into woods on strike- it wont ever happen because society will still function without them.
i mean it may even take quite a while for people to even realize they are gone.
as labor strikes have proven the same is not true in reverse somethings are just more important to the function and mechanics of society.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Buddy_Gilapagos
Charter member
44386 posts
Thu Dec-04-14 05:51 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
36. "Some people learn stuff by doing things other than watching movies. "
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

Maybe that's the basis for what you know but yeah.



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

http://blackpeopleonlocalnews.tumblr.com/

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Wonderl33t
Member since Jul 11th 2002
21405 posts
Thu Dec-04-14 06:15 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
39. "This whole post is hot air"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Besides the fact that it's based on a strawman fallacy, the whole thing is oversimplified.

Education matters. Industry matters (working in, for example, energy industry vs print journalism or food service). Networking matters. Luck matters, too. I include opportunity as luck, which I assume you equate with privilege. You can't insist that luck is a factor but also deny that these other things matter, which is what you're doing by oversimplifying and creating this strawman argument.

I have a feeling you've never actually heard anyone try to quantify the hardness of their work and compare it to someone else's... aka this post is useless hot air

>"I worked hard" - Elitist delusion.
>
> Ok, so I keep hearing elitist repeat the phrase, "I worked
>hard for this"
>Is it that they believe it is physically possible for one
>human to be able to work 1000x - 100,000,000 times hard than
>another?! lol
>It's not even possible, it doesn't make sense.
>They need to admit that the only reason they have so much more
>wealth is that what their job or service they provide either
>helps or promotes the current status-quo in some way.
>Or worse they are part of the exploitative investor class
>(Earning money off the back of workers you own shares in is
>not hard work)
>If you do work hard it can be no more than any other person
>and even if you did work harder it wouldn't be more than 2 or
>3 x times- if that! (still dont think that's physically
>possible either)
>so keep lying to yourself that your hard work justify's
>gluttony.
>
>.
>Don't take so much of the pie in the first place and then you
>wont have to go play the good samaritan and hand out crumbs
>when your done eating.
>People shouldn't have to rely on charity. The nerve of people
>to feel good about giving back to the community what should of
>already been theirs in the first place.


______________________________
http://i.imgur.com/81XSukd.jpg

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Joe Corn Mo
Member since Aug 29th 2010
15139 posts
Thu Dec-04-14 06:42 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
41. "i absolutely have. "
In response to Reply # 39


  

          


>I have a feeling you've never actually heard anyone try to
>quantify the hardness of their work and compare it to someone
>else's... aka this post is useless hot air
>

there is actually somebody in this very post that is not in Big Law
telling a guy that is currently making money in Big Law
that he works harder than a hypothetical blue collar person.

and is continuing to do it even when the guy in Big Law is saying
that it's not the case.

the conservative platform is based around telling poor ppl
that they are poor because they aren't working hard enough,
and that the institutional hurdles that poor ppl face don't exist.

i am not making that up.
that's a thing that happened.



  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Wonderl33t
Member since Jul 11th 2002
21405 posts
Thu Dec-04-14 06:54 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
45. "RE: i absolutely have. "
In response to Reply # 41


  

          

Asserting that he works harder than a blue collar person is not the same as denying that opportunity (luck, etc synonym) had anything to do with it. This is a false dichotomy

>
>>I have a feeling you've never actually heard anyone try to
>>quantify the hardness of their work and compare it to
>someone
>>else's... aka this post is useless hot air
>>
>
>there is actually somebody in this very post that is not in
>Big Law
>telling a guy that is currently making money in Big Law
>that he works harder than a hypothetical blue collar person.
>
>and is continuing to do it even when the guy in Big Law is
>saying
>that it's not the case.
>
>the conservative platform is based around telling poor ppl
>that they are poor because they aren't working hard enough,
>and that the institutional hurdles that poor ppl face don't
>exist.
>
>i am not making that up.
>that's a thing that happened.
>
>
>
>


______________________________
http://i.imgur.com/81XSukd.jpg

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Joe Corn Mo
Member since Aug 29th 2010
15139 posts
Thu Dec-04-14 07:00 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
46. "here's what i know. "
In response to Reply # 45


  

          

the average person is, well... average.
average work ethic.
average intelligence.
average everything.


you look at any group of ppl, in any demographic,
it works out the same way.

the difference is, some ppl can be average and get extraordinary results.
some ppl can be superb and get crushed.

i don't think there are more hardworking ppl
when you get to a higher socio-economic status.

take a hundred ppl from any group, it works out the same.
a few geniuses.
a few ppl dumb as dirt.
the rest are average.


among rich ppl, when evaluating work ethic,
it works the same way.

a few work horses,
a few lazy fucks,
the rest are average.

rich ppl are not magic.
they are just as dumb, lazy, and average as everybody else.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
Wonderl33t
Member since Jul 11th 2002
21405 posts
Thu Dec-04-14 07:19 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
49. "Sure"
In response to Reply # 46


  

          

I guess my overall point is that the OP's outrage comes from an equal or greater amount of delusion than he is accusing others of.

>the average person is, well... average.
>average work ethic.
>average intelligence.
>average everything.
>
>
>you look at any group of ppl, in any demographic,
>it works out the same way.
>
>the difference is, some ppl can be average and get
>extraordinary results.
>some ppl can be superb and get crushed.
>
>i don't think there are more hardworking ppl
>when you get to a higher socio-economic status.
>
>take a hundred ppl from any group, it works out the same.
>a few geniuses.
>a few ppl dumb as dirt.
>the rest are average.
>
>
>among rich ppl, when evaluating work ethic,
>it works the same way.
>
>a few work horses,
>a few lazy fucks,
>the rest are average.
>
>rich ppl are not magic.
>they are just as dumb, lazy, and average as everybody else.
>
>


______________________________
http://i.imgur.com/81XSukd.jpg

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71166 posts
Sat Dec-06-14 01:32 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
80. "RE: here's what i know. "
In response to Reply # 46


  

          

I feel you on the myth of poor needing to work harder (good way to hide the by-design inequities and the by-chance advantages alike) but this followup post I am less certain about.

I think the same way people falsely equate hard work with success, you're looking at a correlation between a concept of intelligence and success that just isn't that strong.

Being smart and being compassionate and being both can be very big disadvantages or obstacles. Who is sadder, more emotionally confused and more fearful of failure, Homer or Lisa?

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
Joe Corn Mo
Member since Aug 29th 2010
15139 posts
Sat Dec-06-14 09:01 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
82. "i've been around the block enough times to know how it is. "
In response to Reply # 80


  

          


>Being smart and being compassionate and being both can be very
>big disadvantages or obstacles. Who is sadder, more
>emotionally confused and more fearful of failure, Homer or
>Lisa?


which is why i am side-eying a few ppl in this post
who keep talking non-sense.

(not that your reply was nonsense. i feel you on that.)

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                        
c71
Member since Jan 15th 2008
10694 posts
Sat Dec-06-14 09:07 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
83. "Did you have a response for what Concrete said in reply # 79?"
In response to Reply # 82


  

          

He said:

"It took me a while to unpack just how weak-minded the OP was here. It is basically telling people without privilege to pack it in or be resentful or hope to get lucky, or some combination of the three."


Surprise me with a response to that

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                            
Joe Corn Mo
Member since Aug 29th 2010
15139 posts
Sat Dec-06-14 01:26 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
84. "i've accomplished shit. "
In response to Reply # 83


  

          

i am not the most "successful" person you'll meet but
i made it do what it do. (army officer, veteran, attorney, non-profit work, amateur musician, made it through an abusive childhood without being a total basket case,
still have a sense of humor and i still find ways to enjoy life)


if you wanna call me bitter i'll be that.
i'm just stating the facts.

there are ppl in this world that have been my peers,
and when we swap stories about what it took to get to where we were,
the stories are different.

they had different breaks.

yeah they had to "work hard" just like i did
but they would all acknowledge i had to work HARDER.

so when the conversation is about getting next level, 1% wealth,
i side eye when ppl say "they worked harder."

you cannot earn a billion dollars.
you can acquire a billion dollars.
you can do work that gets you a billion dollars.

but you can't "earn" it.

if you include the benefits, i made more money in the army
than i do now. especially when i was deployed.

i got the money and that's fine, but let's be clear--
i didn't EARN that money. the value i provided to society by deploying to Iraq
did not match how much money i got by going. same goes for the rest of my unit
because we didn't need to be there to begin with.

and truth be told, anybody that was smart enough to get a 3.0 or probably even a 2.5 GPA could have done our jobs.
we were not these special little snowflakes that managed to
get to this "elite" army officer status by hard work and grit alone.

we were ppl that had opportunities that a lot of folks don't
that did average or above average work and wound up as army officers.



One of my closets friends left Big Law to joing the army
after feeling like his work, while well paying, was not valuable.
i never worked in Big Law but I have heard enough about it from him and other ppl
i have met to know that success is not necessarily based on
being the smartest or the most hardworking.

it's also about meeting the right ppl and have the right ppl know you
and some ppl know ppl that you will probably never have the opportunity to meet
because they were born into an entirely different social network than you.



to answer your original question,
do i think ppl w/o privilege need to pack it up and not try?

no.

keep fighting as long as you've got fight left in you.

but don't listen to ppl saying you just have to "work hard."
it's a lie.

If anybody tells me that wealthy, influential ppl
became wealthy and influential because they worked hard,
i give them an extreme side eye, and maybe i'll even tell them to stfu.
because even with the success I'VE had, i can't chalk it up to "hard work"
and nothing else.

i caught a few breaks when i needed them.
i avoided some L's i could have taken.

if a few cards would have played slightly different, i'd be fucking homeless.
anybody that tells me this game ain't rigged
is either protecting their own interest (financially or psychologically)
or has never actually done shit so they base everything they know about the
world on movies and what rich politicians tell then about
how wealthy, influential ppl become wealthy and influential.

you can rise from the bottom to the top
just like you can get rich in Vegas.

but the deck is stacked, the odds are not in your favor,
and i get pissed off because the notion that things are fine the way it is
makes ppl less likely to get angry and start challenging the system
that kicks most of our asses day and night.

bootstraps rhetoric is bullshit.
like, completely.






>"It took
me a while to unpack just how weak-minded the OP was
>here. It is basically telling people without privilege to pack
>it in or be resentful or hope to get lucky, or some
>combination of the three."
>
>
>Surprise me with a response to that

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                
c71
Member since Jan 15th 2008
10694 posts
Sat Dec-06-14 05:44 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
85. "RE: i've accomplished shit. "
In response to Reply # 84


  

          


>to answer your original question,
>do i think ppl w/o privilege need to pack it up and not try?
>
>no.
>
>keep fighting as long as you've got fight left in you.
>
>but



>you can rise from the bottom to the top
>just like you can get rich in Vegas.
>
>but



.............

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

ndibs
Member since Aug 06th 2012
12715 posts
Thu Dec-04-14 07:11 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
47. "You're going to have to work hard to make a lot of money..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

That doesn't mean that EVERYONE who works hard is going to make a lot of money...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Wonderl33t
Member since Jul 11th 2002
21405 posts
Thu Dec-04-14 07:16 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
48. "HOW CAN YOU TOLERATE SUCH INJUSTICE"
In response to Reply # 47


  

          

>That doesn't mean that EVERYONE who works hard is going to
>make a lot of money...


______________________________
http://i.imgur.com/81XSukd.jpg

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Joe Corn Mo
Member since Aug 29th 2010
15139 posts
Thu Dec-04-14 07:24 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
50. "reply #46"
In response to Reply # 47


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
ndibs
Member since Aug 06th 2012
12715 posts
Thu Dec-04-14 08:24 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
54. "Nope. When it comes to MAKING a lot of money..."
In response to Reply # 50


          

You don't do that being lazy.

A lot of rich people are lazy I'm sure but they probably were born rich.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
John Forte
Member since Feb 22nd 2013
15295 posts
Fri Dec-05-14 01:04 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
68. "You can, however do so with an average work ethic"
In response to Reply # 54


          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Buddy_Gilapagos
Charter member
44386 posts
Fri Dec-05-14 12:28 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
63. "You are wrong. Do you deny that some ppl who don't work hard make a lot...."
In response to Reply # 47


  

          

of money?



>That doesn't mean that EVERYONE who works hard is going to
>make a lot of money...


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

http://blackpeopleonlocalnews.tumblr.com/

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Peabody
Member since Jan 18th 2011
10296 posts
Thu Dec-04-14 08:03 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
52. "loving what you do >>>>>> working hard"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

if you love what you do you'll gain momentum, lots of it, and from the outside looking in that looks like working hard to people. late nights, long hours, etc...but to the person doing it, they're just having fun, even if it is somewhat strenous

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Kira
Member since Nov 14th 2004
28147 posts
Thu Dec-04-14 08:14 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
53. "POSTJACK: Have we talked about all of the hurt "people" on Bomani's time..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

https://twitter.com/bomani_jones

THEY ARE UPSET AND MAD.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
78325 posts
Fri Dec-05-14 12:27 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
62. "oh he makes people mad on a daily basis."
In response to Reply # 53


  

          

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Valium
Member since Oct 26th 2009
4993 posts
Fri Dec-05-14 01:09 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
64. "Oh go back to jizzing over yt women and keep your mouth shut"
In response to Reply # 62


  

          

say 'YEAH'!!!!!

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Goldmind
Member since Oct 28th 2004
27522 posts
Thu Dec-04-14 10:55 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
60. "This year, my opinon has shifted on the supposed virtue of hard work"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Nothing makes you question the value of hard work like landing a dream job in a cut-throat industry. For a couple of years after coming on board, I was prone to periodically pinching myself, and when I was confident that I was indeed awake, and no longer in front of a laptop researching the requirements for food stamps, I attributed my improved fortune to my impenetrable work ethic.

Of course, that wasn't even close to the complete story. Sure, I worked hard, impossibly hard. But more importantly, I worked strategically. In fact, getting ahead requires learning how to do LESS work -- how to cut corners, how to delegate, how to cheat the system.

It also requires access to resources. If I weren't able to score Adderall and enroll in therapy when I had, there's no way that I could have summoned the energy and clarity of mind necessary to make smart choices. I know, because in the previous few years before I secured Adderall, I was floundering, working hard but making fuzzy-headed decisions that left me financially unstable.

I also benefited from access to capital. After college, I was only able to participate in several resume-boosting unpaid internships by taking out a loan. In those instances, my ability to pay rent (and go into debt) was more important than my willingness to work hard.

Now that I've exceeded my own expectations, I question whether hard work deserves the pedestal I've put it on. I'm disillusioned about hard work not only because it is overrated -- newspaper journalists work just as hard as advertising copywriters but end up with less pay -- but also because it is poisonous. I don't think there is anything noble about a lack of work-life balance or a company that works its employees into the ground. The game is rigged. And the road to the victory is paved with death.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Ms. Pele
Member since Apr 03rd 2009
8791 posts
Fri Dec-05-14 12:30 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
65. "good stuff."
In response to Reply # 60


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
BigJazz
Charter member
24443 posts
Fri Dec-05-14 12:56 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
67. "but all that goes with working hard. "
In response to Reply # 60


  

          

working smarter, being strategic, all that's working hard.


***
I'm tryna be better off, not better than...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Goldmind
Member since Oct 28th 2004
27522 posts
Fri Dec-05-14 02:13 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
72. "Poverty also goes with working hard. "
In response to Reply # 67
Fri Dec-05-14 02:14 PM by Goldmind

          

I consider myself lucky.



  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
lfresh
Member since Jun 18th 2002
92693 posts
Fri Jan-16-15 12:57 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
90. "*claps for children with immigrant parents*"
In response to Reply # 72


  

          

>I consider myself lucky.


same
and am grateful my mother retired alive and can enjoy the money she saved with her hard work


~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Buddy_Gilapagos
Charter member
44386 posts
Fri Dec-05-14 01:09 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
70. "The thing is psych 101 teaches us that we attribute our success to our"
In response to Reply # 60


  

          

own hard work and our failures to the system holding us down.

I don't think you will find a success person who will declare there success isn't largely due to their hard work.

Also you sound like a hater or unsuccessful person if we say that successful people "didn't build that".


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

http://blackpeopleonlocalnews.tumblr.com/

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Fructose Soda
Member since Feb 19th 2012
2150 posts
Fri Dec-05-14 01:11 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
71. "memba when Charles Barkley said "working is overrated"?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

He's rich tho.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

rawsouthpaw
Charter member
15323 posts
Fri Dec-05-14 05:47 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
75. "The decades of war on unions is why half the US is at/near poverty"
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Dec-05-14 05:51 PM by rawsouthpaw

  

          

shocking stat now and when it dropped after occupy wall street got society analyzing the facts about class versus the predominant messaging from the oligarchy that the US domestic budget needs austerity to clean up its robbery. what we're partly discussing the mythology around capitalism that people tell themselves, and that many buy into, the myth of the triumphant individual devoid of socio-economic context.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
130146 posts
Fri Jan-16-15 11:58 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
87. "*standing ovation*"
In response to Reply # 75


  

          

>shocking stat now and when it dropped after occupy wall
>street got society analyzing the facts about class versus the
>predominant messaging from the oligarchy that the US domestic
>budget needs austerity to clean up its robbery. what we're
>partly discussing the mythology around capitalism that people
>tell themselves, and that many buy into, the myth of the
>triumphant individual devoid of socio-economic context.

not because of the state of things... we are in for a lifetime of HORSESHIT. I lightweight hope I'm outta here @ 60

but because you address the bullshit in terms that I've repeatedly tried to impart on others

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
rawsouthpaw
Charter member
15323 posts
Fri Jan-16-15 12:38 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
89. "thank man. lots of research to take over anecdotes too"
In response to Reply # 87
Fri Jan-16-15 12:53 PM by rawsouthpaw

  

          

personal stories are interesting and all but what are studies showing? for one union membership has been seen to be like , 15% of the (probably private) workforce.
while inequality has increased, at least this research out of the Ivy League - Harvard - has found social mobility didn't (yet) have a drop too though who your parents are is more important now apparently -

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/business-jan-june14-mobility-01-24/


JEFFREY BROWN: Well, in thinking about that, about possible policy prescriptions, how much do we know about why this has happened, why it has stayed the same or stagnated?

RAJ CHETTY: Yes, that’s a challenging question.

One of the trends that we have seen, as I just mentioned, is that inequality has increased. And conventional wisdom is that greater inequality might make upward mobility more difficult. One way to picture that is think of the income distribution as a ladder, and the rungs of the ladder or the percentiles of the income distribution, while inequality has been increasing, that means the rungs of the ladder have grown further apart.

And so you might have thought, intuitively, that’s going to make it harder for kids to climb up that ladder if they are starting from a low position. That turns out not to have happened. And so perhaps one hypothesis that other things have changed at the same time. Over the past several decades, we have had significant improvements in civil rights, expanded access to higher education, and a number of other anti-poverty efforts that might have offset that detrimental effects of other forces in the economy.

JEFFREY BROWN: But, as you said, inequality certainly has increased. So, what — make the connection here for us. I saw a quote where you said, “Now it matters more who your parents are today than it did in the past.”

So you’re saying that the consequences of inequality have increased, somehow impacting mobility, upward mobility?

RAJ CHETTY: That’s exactly right, Jeff.

So, the way to think about that is because the rungs of the ladder are further apart, to go back to the analogy I was just using, who your parents are, if you happen to be by chance born to parents at the bottom of that ladder vs. the top of the ladder, that is more consequential today than it was in the past, precisely because the ladder is now expanded.

So if you are born to parents who happen to be at the 20th percentile, instead of the 80th percentile, that is a much bigger gap today than it was 30 or 40 years ago. And so the consequences of the fact that we have relatively low levels of mobility in the U.S. are much more serious today than they were in the past. And so we should be more concerned about the fact that mobility is quite low today.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

atruhead
Charter member
84449 posts
Fri Dec-05-14 11:57 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
77. "hard work doesnt necessarily equate to money"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

but it equates to success at whatever your goal might be, along with other factors like talent, applied knowledge, good timing and luck

My goals are way greater than where I am now, but you better believe I worked hard to get this far

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Triptych
Charter member
29666 posts
Sat Dec-06-14 12:24 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IMClick to send message via ICQ
78. "this, and hard ≠ smart."
In response to Reply # 77


  

          

____________________________

http://twitter.com/irefox
http://stackoverflow.com/users/43089/triptych
http://github.com/djtriptych

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71166 posts
Sat Dec-06-14 01:28 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
79. "Do you think that is what they mean? LOL"
In response to Reply # 0
Sat Dec-06-14 01:33 AM by ConcreteCharlie

  

          

Yes, Warren Buffet clearly earned his fortune by working harder than some day laborers or the world's strongest man. Obviously he believes he PHYSICALLY worked HARDER, no one could ever imagine that he had more insight and worked smarter.

It took me a while to unpack just how weak-minded the OP was here. It is basically telling people without privilege to pack it in or be resentful or hope to get lucky, or some combination of the three.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Paradeofegos
Member since Apr 06th 2014
106 posts
Sat Dec-06-14 01:59 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
81. "RE: Do you think that is what they mean? LOL"
In response to Reply # 79
Sat Dec-06-14 02:11 AM by Paradeofegos

          

That is the implication.
When you say things like "I worked hard" as a rebuttal to people upset about your wealth- it sure seems like this is what they believe.
Sounds like they feel the 8 - 12 hr day they put in was just 'harder' than what other people did, a billion times over...not physically, mentally, intellectually or humanly possible.

There is also the other delusion that what they bring to the table is more valuable- again I would push back on this.
nothing you provide society is a "billion times" more valuable than another person.

Warren Buffet is a capital investor. I cant think of a worse example of a superfluous contribution to society than that.

"Phoroahs on Wall Street" they live for that pyramid life.
"Takes a million slaves to build a pyramid"

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71166 posts
Fri Jan-16-15 01:11 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
93. "time for you and them alike to forsake wealth as meritocracy"
In response to Reply # 81


  

          

it doesn't work that way.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

deejboram
Member since Sep 27th 2002
25755 posts
Fri Jan-16-15 11:52 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
86. "American Issue."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

.

****
pink toes: http://i.imgur.com/WN7DPL1

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
2420 posts
Fri Jan-16-15 12:03 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
88. "I disagree. I have worked with several high profile people."
In response to Reply # 0


          

They work harder than anyone else I know. Minimum 15 hours a day, 7 days a week, all year round. Never go out, never do anything for themselves. Try doing it if you think its easy.

~Experience is the currency of the soul.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
lfresh
Member since Jun 18th 2002
92693 posts
Fri Jan-16-15 01:01 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
91. "my mom worked 80 hour work weeks"
In response to Reply # 88
Fri Jan-16-15 01:02 PM by lfresh

  

          

doubling and tripling up on shifts
so yes i KNOW people that work(ed) harder
and PHYSICALLY harder

there rewards are there only if you are smart are bare minimum and you escape the traps
and trust there are ALOT of traps

yes that working hard is an elitist delusion
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Fri Jan-16-15 01:06 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
92. "at the end of the day more effort >>>> less effort "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

it's no guarantee things will turn out the way you want
but it's almost always a net positive

~~~~~~

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Amenace
Member since Jun 22nd 2003
50 posts
Fri Jan-16-15 01:47 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
94. "RE: "I worked hard" - The Elitist Delusion"
In response to Reply # 0


          

An ER doctor working 60 hours a week is absolutely 1000-10000x harder than the guy watching the conveyor belt of Mountain Dew bottles waiting for one to fall down for 60 hours a week (a job I actually had at one time). There should be, and is a massive gap in compensation for those positions.

I dont even see how this is debatable. I certainly don't disagree that their are privileges and opportunities that are unequal for everyone - but I don't see it as being a factor that absolutely prohibits success.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Lobby General Discussion topic #12666691 Previous topic | Next topic
Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.25
Copyright © DCScripts.com