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JtothaI
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17134 posts
Wed Aug-06-08 05:34 PM

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"Poll question: Iron Man V Dark Knight"


  

          

Personally, while I enjoyed them both....I will probobly watch Iron More on DVD than DK.

There wasn't anything I didn't like about RDJ's Iron Man but I cover my ears everytime I hear Bale talk as Batman.

Still...two great movies, what a great summer its been so far and theres still a boat load of shit on the horizon!

Poll result (102 votes)
Iron Man (38 votes)Vote
Dark Knight (61 votes)Vote
Too Different, Can't Compare (3 votes)Vote

  

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
Iron Man
Aug 06th 2008
1
Purple
Aug 06th 2008
2
ARE YOU SERIOUSE?????
Aug 06th 2008
3
      What didn't blow Spiderman 3 out of the water?
Aug 06th 2008
5
      Spider Man 3
Aug 06th 2008
6
           better than 1 or 2? are you fucking crazy?
Aug 06th 2008
7
           X3 >> Spidey 3
Aug 06th 2008
9
           RE: X3 >> Spidey 3
Aug 08th 2008
88
                WOW!
Aug 08th 2008
89
                For both the X-Men and Spider-Man franchises: 2 > 1 > 3
Aug 08th 2008
94
           Spiderman 2 sucked
Aug 06th 2008
12
           you can't be seriouse.
Aug 06th 2008
8
      Seriouse about this being discussed already? Yes I am.
Aug 06th 2008
11
Tony for mayooorrrrrrrrrr
Aug 06th 2008
4
Cosign on all this. n/m
Aug 06th 2008
10
i find it hard to think ironman is more rewatchable
Aug 06th 2008
14
summer fun >>> 6 hour brooding treatise on morality and dog punching
Aug 06th 2008
22
RE: i find it hard to think ironman is more rewatchable
Aug 07th 2008
30
and the suit is fucking awesome!
Aug 07th 2008
70
The final battle isn't so great
Aug 07th 2008
69
^^^ it's murdaaaaaah
Aug 07th 2008
26
I agree with most of this. Iron Man is by far the more fun, rewatchable ...
Aug 07th 2008
28
I DEFINITELY wanted to See "Iron Man" again. like 5 minutes later.
Aug 07th 2008
29
^^^MOLTEN LAVA
Aug 07th 2008
34
i cosign a lot of this. n/m
Aug 07th 2008
38
we must not have saw the same movie
Aug 07th 2008
46
No, he just saw the films for what they were.
Aug 08th 2008
81
nail on the head.
Aug 12th 2008
194
i'll pick the movie that going for the OSCAR > just a dope superhero joi...
Aug 06th 2008
13
Post like yours will cause backlash for many years to come
Aug 06th 2008
15
      lets look at the other movies for examples
Aug 06th 2008
20
           TDK will surpass Star Wars in what way?
Aug 07th 2008
36
                bearing in mind that the film was rereleased a decade ago
Aug 07th 2008
39
                     C'mon tickets cost $10 or higher some places
Aug 07th 2008
41
Ironman has little replay value.
Aug 06th 2008
16
'Dark Knight' has no replay value
Aug 07th 2008
33
      WORD????
Aug 07th 2008
40
      O_E doesn't like TDK. I don't bother w/ O_E on this.
Aug 07th 2008
45
           I don't like TDK because its not very good.
Aug 07th 2008
58
      ^^^ Real Talk
Aug 07th 2008
62
I wanted it to be Iron Man, but I gotta admit it's Dark Knight
Aug 06th 2008
17
Dark Knight is over rated as fuck
Aug 06th 2008
18
RE: Dark Knight is over rated as fuck
Aug 06th 2008
19
      stop. nobody wanted to see the Matrix revisited.
Aug 06th 2008
21
      this i disagree w/
Aug 07th 2008
23
           I wrote "edited for inane length" but it disappeared
Aug 07th 2008
24
                And that first punch was hardly anger
Aug 07th 2008
25
                     RE: And that first punch was hardly anger
Aug 07th 2008
42
                          the guy had a GUN. what would you have done, yell "Objection!"?
Aug 07th 2008
48
                          LOL.
Aug 07th 2008
52
                          please explain how
Aug 07th 2008
49
                               also, please explain how a coin can have anything other than 2 sides
Aug 07th 2008
50
                                    lol
Aug 07th 2008
54
                                    LMAO!
Aug 07th 2008
55
      RE: Dark Knight is over rated as fuck
Aug 07th 2008
43
           RE: Dark Knight is over rated as fuck
Aug 07th 2008
51
It should not even be this close
Aug 07th 2008
27
Exactly. Ironman is far better.
Aug 07th 2008
32
      No, I'm just saying that even someone that is as near unanimously
Aug 07th 2008
59
           it's all even.
Aug 07th 2008
60
'Iron Man' didn't have any dead people in it
Aug 07th 2008
31
RE: 'Iron Man' didn't have any dead people in it
Aug 07th 2008
35
      Check the other Dark Knight posts
Aug 07th 2008
57
           You said it was a B-. You is mad.
Aug 07th 2008
65
                Its actually a B-/C+. Its really not very good.
Aug 08th 2008
80
RE: Iron Man V Dark Knight
Aug 07th 2008
37
i think it's nolan's belief on american ideology
Aug 07th 2008
44
No you didn't just write a political essay on Batman
Aug 07th 2008
53
This dude sees images of Christian Bale in tortillas
Aug 07th 2008
67
hey, maybe he could write for the Wall Street Journal (swipe)
Aug 08th 2008
97
::Terrorist fist bumps you::
Aug 07th 2008
56
it's the opposite actually
Aug 07th 2008
61
      i'd say it's just the paradox of american politics as a whole
Aug 07th 2008
71
      it was definitely a critique
Aug 08th 2008
87
      That's still a cop out
Aug 07th 2008
72
           well he always had faith in bruce in doing the right thing
Aug 08th 2008
77
           not really
Aug 08th 2008
90
                What if Bats and Fox decide that there will always be a threat?
Aug 08th 2008
115
                i think bruce knew ahead of time that fox would hate it
Aug 09th 2008
123
                you people are being ridiculous with this neocon argument
Aug 09th 2008
125
                     alot of people right down to even glenn beck
Aug 09th 2008
130
                          I never said the movie has no political aspects
Aug 09th 2008
131
                          i'm not saying (me, personally) it's pro-neocon
Aug 09th 2008
134
                               it doesn't back neocon ideas though, it directly criticizes them
Aug 09th 2008
137
                                    RE: it doesn't back neocon ideas though, it directly criticizes them
Aug 09th 2008
150
                                         RE: it doesn't back neocon ideas though, it directly criticizes them
Aug 11th 2008
186
                          or read this if you think that's reaching:
Aug 09th 2008
132
                               sounds alot like the WSJ article I swiped in post 97
Aug 09th 2008
133
                                    i personally don't agree with the article, but...
Aug 09th 2008
135
                                         again, point is not seeing that there is a neocon connection
Aug 09th 2008
139
                                              RE: again, point is not seeing that there is a neocon connection
Aug 09th 2008
149
                                                   you apparently haven't read a word I've written. n/m
Aug 11th 2008
187
                did you watch the movie?
Aug 09th 2008
124
                that's correct
Aug 09th 2008
136
Nolan>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Favreau
Aug 07th 2008
47
All the reason why its odd that Ironman >>>>>>> TDK
Aug 08th 2008
82
      They're both good. I just got a lot more out of TDK
Aug 08th 2008
91
           ^^^ What he said
Aug 08th 2008
112
RE: Iron Man V Dark Knight
Aug 07th 2008
63
good post!
Aug 07th 2008
64
PTP at its finest!
Aug 07th 2008
66
This reply made the whole post finally worth reading.
Aug 07th 2008
68
Also, since people seem to forget: Ironman is just as political as DK
Aug 07th 2008
73
TALK ABOUT IT!
Aug 07th 2008
74
the only thing politically related is aghanistan replacing 'nam
Aug 08th 2008
76
What are you trying to say?
Aug 08th 2008
109
Yes, I remember the "nuance" of the scene where Ironman's
Aug 08th 2008
83
lol
Aug 08th 2008
86
I know, they aren't as nuanced as the
Aug 08th 2008
110
      Right, because it's only accurate if all the criminals are white.
Aug 08th 2008
111
           So, you're saying that turban wearing villains are taboo?
Aug 08th 2008
114
                as opposed to the ethnic and social sterotypes in Iron Man?
Aug 09th 2008
126
                     I'm not sure there really is a difference
Aug 09th 2008
143
                          All I know is that you claimed that Iron Man was more "nuanced"
Aug 10th 2008
153
you've got that backwards actually
Aug 08th 2008
92
TDK, easily.
Aug 07th 2008
75
incredible hulk >>>> ironman
Aug 08th 2008
78
      translation: Ironman had fewer dumbass gimmicks.
Aug 08th 2008
79
      whut gimmick you're talking about?
Aug 08th 2008
95
           TDK is for the ADHD generation who can't sit still.
Aug 08th 2008
98
                Why can't we just like the movie because we thought it was good?
Aug 08th 2008
99
                And why is that long ass speech Bridges gives to Stark gettin a pass?
Aug 08th 2008
100
                bridges was a HORRIBLE villian
Aug 08th 2008
104
                     But not nearly as shitty as Two Face.
Aug 08th 2008
106
                If you have ADHD, that's all good, but you still have ADHD.
Aug 08th 2008
101
                so you enjoy your movies to be unintelligent
Aug 08th 2008
103
                     FYI: Only idiots think bullshit twists = intelligent
Aug 08th 2008
105
                          I liked the movie and I agree with this statement
Aug 09th 2008
119
      wow.
Aug 08th 2008
93
      I agree TDK & >>>>>HULK & >>>>>>Ironman
Aug 11th 2008
191
Dark Knight
Aug 08th 2008
84
I enjoyed TDK quite a bit
Aug 08th 2008
85
DK over the one saturated with offensive sexist and racist
Aug 08th 2008
96
I get the racists part...
Aug 08th 2008
102
      aside from the strippers on the private jet???
Aug 08th 2008
107
           that doesn't make the movie sexist, tho.
Aug 08th 2008
108
           yea..in defense..stark's character SUPPOSE to be sexist
Aug 08th 2008
116
                Tony Starks >>>> Bruce Wayne
Aug 08th 2008
117
                     now you're stating the obvious
Aug 09th 2008
118
                     Yup. Its obvious that Ironman >>>> TDK
Aug 09th 2008
120
                          NOPE! getting ppl coming back for multiple viewings = doing them 'bers!
Aug 09th 2008
127
                               Same thing happened with 'Transformers'
Aug 10th 2008
157
                                    LOL @ bernie mac (RIP) pushing numbers for transformers 2
Aug 10th 2008
172
                                         LOL. NOBODY expected Titanic's success either.
Aug 10th 2008
175
                     RE: Tony Starks >>>> Bruce Wayne
Aug 12th 2008
197
           Oh yeah, from the first 5 minutes!
Aug 08th 2008
113
                and *you're* criticizing TDK for its supposed neocon stance?
Aug 09th 2008
128
iron man
Aug 09th 2008
121
that's one of the reasons i love the movie
Aug 09th 2008
122
RE: that's one of the reasons i love the movie
Aug 09th 2008
142
      RE: that's one of the reasons i love the movie
Aug 09th 2008
145
a smart one?
Aug 09th 2008
129
      LOL
Aug 09th 2008
138
           I'm saying, Supes can float in orbit & listen in on every convo on earth
Aug 09th 2008
140
                While we are at, what type of hero drives a car?
Aug 09th 2008
141
                good point, LOL
Aug 09th 2008
147
                People were too mad at the movie being so shitty to notice
Aug 09th 2008
148
cmon, Stark better. but really....
Aug 09th 2008
144
i disagree, but i like your post none the less
Aug 09th 2008
146
oh god, just give it a fucking rest...
Aug 09th 2008
151
On behalf of Batman fans everywhere I want to aplogize for him
Aug 10th 2008
159
RE: i disagree, but i like your post none the less
Aug 09th 2008
152
LOL at you still saying TDK will surpass Star Wars
Aug 10th 2008
160
      if that's the arguement you're making....
Aug 10th 2008
168
RE: cmon, Stark better. but really....
Aug 10th 2008
155
^^^Molten Lava
Aug 10th 2008
156
look...
Aug 10th 2008
154
One thing that NO ONE CAN DENY ABOUT THIS POST:
Aug 10th 2008
158
WRONG! The 1 thing no one can deny is dem 'bers.
Aug 10th 2008
161
      LMMFAO!!!!^^^EXHIBIT A^^^^HOLY SHIT
Aug 10th 2008
162
      O.E. sounds like mccain bitchin' over obama's celebrity
Aug 10th 2008
164
      Haha....You sound like McCain talking about policy
Aug 10th 2008
166
      ^^^So mad he typed all this shit thinkin I'd even bother to read it
Aug 11th 2008
185
      just reported: top box office draw 4th weekend in a row
Aug 10th 2008
163
           Goddamn. Titanic made more than Two Towers and ROTK COMBINED
Aug 10th 2008
167
                props to titanic-
Aug 10th 2008
169
                     So Titanic >>>>> The Dark Knight?
Aug 10th 2008
170
                          two completely different genres (why even make this arguement)??
Aug 10th 2008
171
                               Okay, so is The Dark Knight >>>> Titanic?
Aug 10th 2008
173
                                    RE: Okay, so is The Dark Knight >>>>> Titanic?
Aug 10th 2008
174
                                         Okay, so is The Dark Knight >>>> Titanic?
Aug 10th 2008
176
                                              sigh...it's like talking to a brick wall
Aug 10th 2008
177
                                                   Okay, so is The Dark Knight >>>> Titanic?
Aug 10th 2008
179
                                                        whut part of this did you not understand?
Aug 10th 2008
181
                                                             Okay, so is The Dark Knight >>>> Titanic?
Aug 10th 2008
182
O_E's Powerful Analogy: The Dark Knight = A Superhero Titanic
Aug 10th 2008
165
^^^saw TDK 3 times
Aug 10th 2008
178
      Mad?
Aug 10th 2008
180
           How can you pull the "u mad?" shit...
Aug 11th 2008
183
                Yowzers. You really are mad, though.
Aug 11th 2008
184
                     yo man, curious, why do you care so much though?
Aug 11th 2008
188
                     n/m
Aug 11th 2008
189
                     ORBIT ESTABLISHED!
Aug 11th 2008
190
its impossible for IronMan be as bad as the Dark Knight....
Aug 11th 2008
192
in regards of doing the "action" comparison
Aug 11th 2008
193
      Batman never got his ass kicked by dogs
Aug 12th 2008
195
           batman is still human with no superpowers
Aug 12th 2008
196
           also, in regards of batman's character as a whole"
Aug 12th 2008
198
                RE: also, in regards of batman's character as a whole"
Aug 12th 2008
204
                And here's the problem right here...
Aug 13th 2008
211
                     it's not a problem..you just want No Country For Old Men
Aug 14th 2008
219
                          That makes no sense (and spare me the ridiculous strawman)
Aug 14th 2008
220
iron man's a much better comic book movie, TDK's a better
Aug 12th 2008
199
I'm disappointed in you, bruh
Aug 12th 2008
200
      yeah, i know, kinda surprised me too
Aug 12th 2008
201
Damn, gluvnast's TDK stannery makes my love of X2 look icy and calm.
Aug 12th 2008
202
i'm very opinionated on anything
Aug 12th 2008
203
yours is 'love' and his is stannery?
Aug 12th 2008
205
      unlike frank with X2- at least i never said TDK is flawless
Aug 13th 2008
206
           Nope, you're a bonafide stan
Aug 13th 2008
208
           and you're a bonafide fuckwit.
Aug 13th 2008
209
                No, I'm just not to be fucked wit.
Aug 13th 2008
210
                     http://tinyurl.com/6kt3pj
Aug 13th 2008
212
                     that's likely true
Aug 13th 2008
216
           I have waited for someone to point out the flaws in X2.
Aug 14th 2008
222
Well I will say this Ironman 2 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Batman TDK
Aug 13th 2008
207
RE: Well I will say this Ironman 2 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Batman TDK
Aug 13th 2008
213
he's saying marvel as a whole...not marvel studios
Aug 13th 2008
215
*slap*
Aug 14th 2008
218
possible, but definitely ironman 2 >>>> ironman
Aug 13th 2008
214
      food for thought? more like a smorgasbord of verbal diarrhea
Aug 13th 2008
217
           Yup. That's why Americans suck at morality and foreign policy
Aug 14th 2008
223
i loved both, but iron man wasn't close IMO
Aug 14th 2008
221

las raises
Member since Aug 31st 2002
14982 posts
Wed Aug-06-08 05:41 PM

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1. "Iron Man"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

for me

-----------------------------------------------------------------

  

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Okayplayer Search Engine
Member since Dec 14th 2007
72 posts
Wed Aug-06-08 05:48 PM

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2. "Purple"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=6&topic_id=387283&mesg_id=387283&listing_type=search

Search and Ye Shall Find:
http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=search&select_forum=

  

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Lyterall
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1106 posts
Wed Aug-06-08 06:05 PM

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3. "ARE YOU SERIOUSE?????"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

I aint even a Batman fan. But the Dark Knight blows Iron Man right out the water. Hell, it blew Spider Man 3 out of the water. It wasnt even like watching a comic book movie. It was like watching Silence of The Lambs or some thriller like that. The Dark Knight is the dopest movie of the year. F#cking crazy.

Lyterall appears courtesy of
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The new album "Stop Looking At Me" coming Winter 2009.... just waite and listen!

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
25919 posts
Wed Aug-06-08 06:09 PM

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5. "What didn't blow Spiderman 3 out of the water?"
In response to Reply # 3


          

Watching an actual spider in water would be more entertaining than that piece of crap.

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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Lyterall
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Wed Aug-06-08 06:13 PM

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6. "Spider Man 3"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

I actually liked Spider Man 3. Was way better than 1 and 2. Now Batman Begins on the other half. That was some trash. Straight up. If it wasnt for the Joker, i wouldnt even went to watch The Dark Knight. Hell, really, it should of been called The Joker.

Lyterall appears courtesy of
Midnight Heat Ent./Planet Ill

The new album "Stop Looking At Me" coming Winter 2009.... just waite and listen!

  

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THRILLHOUSE
Member since Oct 26th 2007
3655 posts
Wed Aug-06-08 06:19 PM

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7. "better than 1 or 2? are you fucking crazy?"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

I didn't even hate SP3 like most on here, but they completely botched the Venom story and crammed way too much into one movie. SP2>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>SP3

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
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Wed Aug-06-08 06:22 PM

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9. "X3 >> Spidey 3"
In response to Reply # 7


          

And that's saying something. Spidey 3 was something terrible. This is the first I've ever heard someone say it was even close to Spidey 2.

----
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Beamer6178
Member since Jan 09th 2006
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Fri Aug-08-08 12:21 PM

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88. "RE: X3 >> Spidey 3"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

i'm a bit of a fanboy, but i think, despite its ambition, spiderman 3 was the best of the 3.

now, x2 was probably my least favorite of the three, definitely below X1

just goes to show, everyone got a diff opinion

btw, dark knight takes this shit. it took action flick and moved it to cinema...

  

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will_5198
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Fri Aug-08-08 12:40 PM

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89. "WOW!"
In response to Reply # 88


          

>now, x2 was probably my least favorite of the three,
>definitely below X1

--------

  

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McDeezNuts
Member since Jun 03rd 2002
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Fri Aug-08-08 01:30 PM

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94. "For both the X-Men and Spider-Man franchises: 2 > 1 > 3"
In response to Reply # 88


  

          

With Spider-Man - I thought 2 was the best, 1 was very good (the Goblin sucked but I loved PP becoming Spider-Man), and 3 tried to do too much.

Same with X-Men, 2 is clearly the best and 3 is clearly the worst.

That said, I love all six of them.

  

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will_5198
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Wed Aug-06-08 07:40 PM

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12. "Spiderman 2 sucked"
In response to Reply # 7


          

at least 3 had some funny parts. plus Sandman's CGI was 10x cooler than any Dr. Octo shit.

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buckshot defunct
Member since May 02nd 2003
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Wed Aug-06-08 06:20 PM

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8. "you can't be seriouse."
In response to Reply # 6


  

          



-----------------------------
http://talestosuffice.com/
@kennykeil

  

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Okayplayer Search Engine
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Wed Aug-06-08 07:27 PM

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11. "Seriouse about this being discussed already? Yes I am."
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

Search and Ye Shall Find:
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buckshot defunct
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4. "Tony for mayooorrrrrrrrrr"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

DK was a lot more ambitious I think. And there was one performance in particular that put it over the top (I am of course referring to Tiny "Zeus" Lister as Ferryboat Inmate #3)... And as PTP has indicated, it gave us a lot of ponderings to ponder and moral quandaries to discuss... But I uphold that Iron Man is the stronger film. It's almost without question the most re-watchable one.

Downey inhabited his role every bit as masterfully as Ledger did The Joker. It might not have been the kind of dark, brooding role that gets Oscar nods or people discussing human nature, but it felt every bit as lived in and natural.

DK has a significant advantage in the "villain" category, to me that may have been the weak link in Iron Man's chain, but DK suffers greatly in an even more important category, namely that of "SUPERHERO AND TITLE CHARACTER." A big problem I have with Nolan's Batman adaptations is that Batman feels a bit like an afterthought in them. Joker chewin' up all the scenery, Batman off in a parking garage punching rottweilers. L.

Iron Man had better effects and action sequences.

Batman had speeches.

Iron Man had the stripper plane.

Batman had more speeches.

Both were good, but I walked out of DK somewhat relieved it was finally over, whereas I walked out of Iron Man wanting to sneak right back in, wondering to myself what kinds of cool extra features the DVD would have. For my money, it was the best action/superhero/nerd flick of the summer.

-----------------------------
http://talestosuffice.com/
@kennykeil

  

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bski
Member since Jun 09th 2002
12115 posts
Wed Aug-06-08 06:35 PM

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10. "Cosign on all this. n/m"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          


http://www.myspace.com/bski
http://www.myspace.com/livesociety

  

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gluvnast
Member since Nov 19th 2006
2367 posts
Wed Aug-06-08 09:58 PM

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14. "i find it hard to think ironman is more rewatchable"
In response to Reply # 4


          

there's only three subpar actions scene, especially the rather disappointing final battle with ironmonger...it was MORE fun watching RDJ be stark without the suit

TDK, you pretty much HAVE to watch it again to catch alot of things that you may have missed or overlooked from the 1st time you watched it...there's alot of things you might of missed that you'll catch the next go around...something you won't have in ironman

actually, i prefer incredible hulk over ironman...better action, better story, and more closer towards the marvel universe..it's another movie you have to watch multiple times to catch alot of homages, nuanced marvel universe clues, and ect...

basically ironman's dope because of RDJ and it was pretty damn accurate to the actual origin...that's pretty much it

  

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buckshot defunct
Member since May 02nd 2003
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Wed Aug-06-08 11:56 PM

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22. "summer fun >>> 6 hour brooding treatise on morality and dog punching"
In response to Reply # 14
Wed Aug-06-08 11:57 PM by buckshot defunct

  

          

>there's only three subpar actions scene

Um... Iron Man outshined TDK in a lot of categories, perhaps none moreso than action.

>especially the
>rather disappointing final battle with ironmonger

Well this I won't argue about. In fact, the dude abides.

>...it was
>MORE fun watching RDJ be stark without the suit

Both of which were more fun than watching Bale be anything.

>TDK, you pretty much HAVE to watch it again to catch alot of
>things that you may have missed or overlooked from the 1st
>time you watched it...

Or because you dozed off during Harvey Dent's 12th speech on heroism

>there's alot of things you might of
>missed that you'll catch the next go around...something you
>won't have in ironman

I don't rewatch movies because I want to catch stuff I missed. I rewatch movies because I liked them, and want to see them again. Catching stuff I missed the first time is just the gravy for me.

>actually, i prefer incredible hulk over ironman...

I think Hulk might have an edge over Iron Man in certain categories.

>better
>action,

Perhaps.

>better story,

Nah.

> and more closer towards the marvel
>universe..it's another movie you have to watch multiple times
>to catch alot of homages, nuanced marvel universe clues, and
>ect...

I don't really put that much of a value on in-jokes and easter eggs that they would make one movie better than another... If anything I think that sort of stuff can hurt a flick in the long run.


>basically ironman's dope because of RDJ and it was pretty damn
>accurate to the actual origin...that's pretty much it

In other words, all it had going for it was great acting and a good story. I dunno, sounds like one of those good kind of problems to me.

-----------------------------
http://talestosuffice.com/
@kennykeil

  

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Brother_Afron
Member since Jul 06th 2003
3812 posts
Thu Aug-07-08 07:36 AM

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30. "RE: i find it hard to think ironman is more rewatchable"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

>there's only three subpar actions scene, especially the
>rather disappointing final battle with ironmonger...>>>>>>

You can't possibly think that TDK had better action scenes than Iron Man. I've said it before but I think the most impressive thing about the Nolan movies is that they manage to be such well regarded superhero flicks despite not having one good fight scene.


it was
>MORE fun watching RDJ be stark without the suit
>>>>>>

Is that supposed to be a negative? The main weakness of superhero movies is that when they're out of costume you just tune out until they suit up again. However, in Iron Man you could really care less if Tony Stark ever puts on the suit. That's good shit, right there.


>
>basically ironman's dope because of RDJ and it was pretty damn
>accurate to the actual origin...that's pretty much it
>

That's pretty much all it needs to be.

Fun is the new gritty

  

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DrNO
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Thu Aug-07-08 06:42 PM

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70. "and the suit is fucking awesome!"
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

_
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4TztqYaemt0
http://preptimeposse.blogspot.com/

  

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DrNO
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Thu Aug-07-08 06:39 PM

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69. "The final battle isn't so great"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

but it's better than anything in DKR and the other action scenes are superb.

_
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4TztqYaemt0
http://preptimeposse.blogspot.com/

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86672 posts
Thu Aug-07-08 12:35 AM

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26. "^^^ it's murdaaaaaah"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
43744 posts
Thu Aug-07-08 01:13 AM

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28. "I agree with most of this. Iron Man is by far the more fun, rewatchable ..."
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

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disco dj
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Thu Aug-07-08 07:24 AM

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29. "I DEFINITELY wanted to See "Iron Man" again. like 5 minutes later."
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

.

______________



http://www.windimoto.com


http://ten2one.wordpress.com/ <-FEB

http://wallpapershi.net/wallpapers/2012/01/boba-fett-star-wars-star-wars-boba-fett-movie-anime-1080x1920.jpg

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Thu Aug-07-08 09:04 AM

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34. "^^^MOLTEN LAVA"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          


yep

----------------------------


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.



"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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DawgEatah
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49225 posts
Thu Aug-07-08 10:18 AM

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38. "i cosign a lot of this. n/m"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          


http://fuck-your.blogspot.com (MUSIC)
http://eatmybigfat.blogspot.com (FOOD)
http://www.myspace.com/insightclopediabrown
http://www.myspace.com/dumhi
http://www.youtube.com/group/okayplayer
http://www.last.fm/user/Dawgeatah

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
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Thu Aug-07-08 11:59 AM

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46. "we must not have saw the same movie"
In response to Reply # 4
Thu Aug-07-08 12:00 PM by BrooklynWHAT

  

          

because while i liked Ironman, i thought the action sucked donkey balls. especially the final fight. hell, just for that, I'll put the Hulk over Ironman.

RDJ wholly carried that movie, but going to see it again, I wasn't as entertained. The Hulk and TDK held my attention the whole time i went to see it again.

And those of yall saying that Rachel wasn't that hot, Liv Tyler (DSLs aside) and the chick in Ironman ain't world beaters either.

Granted after the Shitastic 4 and Supershitman, I'm not really complaining because the movies are finally starting to be consistent in quality.

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Fri Aug-08-08 01:35 AM

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81. "No, he just saw the films for what they were."
In response to Reply # 46


  

          


And was able to subtract the dead actors and hype.

>because while i liked Ironman, i thought the action sucked
>donkey balls. especially the final fight. hell, just for that,
>I'll put the Hulk over Ironman.

Umm.


I TDK coolest thing Batman did the entire movie was kindap
an accountant, and that scene was sorta gratuitous and
unnecessary.

So TDK's action scenes were actually quite bad.

The best things about TDK were the scenes we found out
the Joker was doing some interesting shit, or the scenes
when the Joker was talking and being funny, and scary,
and shit. None of the best scenes in the film had anything
to do with action. None of them.

>RDJ wholly carried that movie, but going to see it again, I
>wasn't as entertained. The Hulk and TDK held my attention the
>whole time i went to see it again.

Ledger carried TDK more than RDJ carried Ironman.

And seriously -- at least the actual protagonist in
Ironman was good and interesting. Batman was boring,
uncool, and an afterthought in TDK. I understand it
was supposed to showcase the Joker, but in a movie
that fucking long, you've got to give the protagonist
more shine, make me realize why Batman is supposed to
be cool.

Instead I get greeted to a fucked up voice and him
kidnapping accountants. Unbelievably wack and corny.

>And those of yall saying that Rachel wasn't that hot, Liv
>Tyler (DSLs aside) and the chick in Ironman ain't world
>beaters either.

It isn't Rachel's lack of hotness(she is quite ugly, tho),
its how terribly her character was written, so terrible,
that we didn't care one bit when she died.

>Granted after the Shitastic 4 and Supershitman, I'm not really
>complaining because the movies are finally starting to be
>consistent in quality.




----------------------------


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.



"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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JtothaI
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Tue Aug-12-08 03:57 PM

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194. "nail on the head."
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

well said

  

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gluvnast
Member since Nov 19th 2006
2367 posts
Wed Aug-06-08 09:50 PM

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13. "i'll pick the movie that going for the OSCAR > just a dope superhero joi..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

RDJ as stark OWNED ironman, but the lack of action, no impressive performances aside from RDJ, average screenplay, and lacking substance albeit a FUN movie...it makes this choice real easy


the majority of the critics, fans, and non-fans agree on how epic TDK is. ledger obviously outshined everybody, but eckhart as well as oldman's performances is just as worthy for a oscar noms....the script was very intelligent as well being able to captivate the most basic summertime audience...it's a movie that will be debated on years on in regards of whut IS the definition of being a HERO as well as whut is considered morally right in defending the safety and hope of the american people...TDK was MORE than a comic book movie

and i NEED NOT TO EXPLAIN ABOUT THE FUCKIN' SCORE....or the IMAX cimenatography

  

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Gemini_Two_One
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Wed Aug-06-08 10:05 PM

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15. "Post like yours will cause backlash for many years to come"
In response to Reply # 13
Wed Aug-06-08 10:13 PM by Gemini_Two_One

  

          

Epic...really? This movie was epic to you? You think people will debate what a hero is because of this movie? Star Wars was epic! Outside of comic shops and geek message boards (both which I frequent)TDK will be a forgotten memory in the minds of most people in month or so when the media tells them what the next big entertainment story is they should follow.


!sig!

"I used to rock and roll all night and party ev-er-ry day. Then it was every other day. Now I'm lucky if I can find half an hour a week in which to get funky." - Homer Simpson

  

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gluvnast
Member since Nov 19th 2006
2367 posts
Wed Aug-06-08 11:33 PM

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20. "lets look at the other movies for examples"
In response to Reply # 15
Wed Aug-06-08 11:35 PM by gluvnast

          

star wars
rocky
raiders of the lost ark
E.T.
jaws


all of them were EPIC critical & commericially successful films that all were nominated for best picture (with rocky actually winning)..these were films that moviegoers just couldn't get enough, that talk about years or decades later on where they were when that movie came out and so forth

they way this movie is being treated...it's falling into that category...i mean it's on the verge of surpassing star wars come next WEEK

it has a 94% rating on rottentomatoes and is STILL currently #1 on IMDB

it's the most critically acclaimed movie of the year, it matched or surpassed its hype by still being the top box office movie of the weekend for the 3rd time and possibly for a 4th....

and there's a realistic possibility of it even beating titanic....


you put those factors in...you'd be crazy to think this movie WON'T be remembered years to come

the problem is that nolan has no way to topping it

  

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Gemini_Two_One
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Thu Aug-07-08 09:51 AM

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36. "TDK will surpass Star Wars in what way?"
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

In ticket sales?
Star Wars: 178,119,600
The Empire Strikes Back: 98,180,600
Return of The Jedi: 94,059,400
Star Wars: Episode I - The Phantom Menace: 84,825,800
Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith: 59,324,600
The Dark Knight: 57,302,200
Star Wars: Episode II - Attack of the Clones: 53,468,500

Hey TDK beat out Clones...good job. Face it TDK will never have the finical success, cultural impact, or influence a religion like Star Wars.

TDK was a good film, but in no way was it a epic movie. It did not explore any new territory in film or in superhero lore. As a long time Batman head some of you are killing me! Watching that movie was like eating a eating a really good hamburger from a premium restaurant. It was tasty,fulfilling, and even the presentation was nice...but it still was hamburger....why some of you keep trying to convince me I ate expensive fillet mignon is beyond me.



!sig!

"I used to rock and roll all night and party ev-er-ry day. Then it was every other day. Now I'm lucky if I can find half an hour a week in which to get funky." - Homer Simpson

  

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gluvnast
Member since Nov 19th 2006
2367 posts
Thu Aug-07-08 10:59 AM

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39. "bearing in mind that the film was rereleased a decade ago"
In response to Reply # 36


          

and VHS wasn't in effect when it was 1st released....the idea of ticket sales as well as inflated sales is pretty much irrelevent


the fact is that TDK by next week WILL surpass star wars for the number 2 spot...

TDK is an instant classic...live with that fact

  

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Gemini_Two_One
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Thu Aug-07-08 11:12 AM

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41. "C'mon tickets cost $10 or higher some places"
In response to Reply # 39
Thu Aug-07-08 11:21 AM by Gemini_Two_One

  

          

You do know with the adjusted gross numbers TDK is 61? TDK is about as classic as the Burton's Batman and that is not a bad thing. Also would I love for you to address the epic impact TDK will have.

You made a case for this being a great comic book movie, but that is all it is.



!sig!

"I used to rock and roll all night and party ev-er-ry day. Then it was every other day. Now I'm lucky if I can find half an hour a week in which to get funky." - Homer Simpson

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
85076 posts
Wed Aug-06-08 10:06 PM

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16. "Ironman has little replay value."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Thu Aug-07-08 09:02 AM

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33. "'Dark Knight' has no replay value"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          


I mean, people are seeing TDK 3 and 4 times off
of hype, but its not a film that stands the test
of time very well

I mean, its too fuckin long, for one

Story sucks

The Joker one liners get tiresome quick

Just overall mediocre movie


----------------------------


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.



"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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gluvnast
Member since Nov 19th 2006
2367 posts
Thu Aug-07-08 11:01 AM

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40. "WORD????"
In response to Reply # 33


          

>
>I mean, people are seeing TDK 3 and 4 times off
>of hype


i'm sorry, but if people are SEEING IT 3 or 4 times in a theater!!! that sounds like replay value to me....overhyped or not


  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
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Thu Aug-07-08 11:52 AM

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45. "O_E doesn't like TDK. I don't bother w/ O_E on this."
In response to Reply # 40


  

          

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Thu Aug-07-08 03:36 PM

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58. "I don't like TDK because its not very good."
In response to Reply # 45


  

          


I didn't just pull my disdain for it out of
thin air.

I watched it, didn't enjoy it, and then came
to some conclusions

No reason to be furious

Your favorite movie just ain't that good

----------------------------


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.



"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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Coatesvillain
Member since Aug 24th 2005
7290 posts
Thu Aug-07-08 05:23 PM

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62. "^^^ Real Talk"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

You saw it twice so you should know better than me on how it stands up in second viewings. All I know is after seeing it once I knew I didn't want to watch that damned thing again.

During the boring spots I spent my time checking my watch and I was furious to see that there was so much time left.


>
>I mean, people are seeing TDK 3 and 4 times off
>of hype, but its not a film that stands the test
>of time very well
>
>I mean, its too fuckin long, for one
>
>Story sucks
>
>The Joker one liners get tiresome quick
>
>Just overall mediocre movie
>
>
>----------------------------
>
>
>O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.
>
>
>
>"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."
>
>(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

-------
"Andy justifies my hate."
http://www.twitter.com/coatesvillain
http://coates.tumblr.com

  

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McDeezNuts
Member since Jun 03rd 2002
5663 posts
Wed Aug-06-08 10:21 PM

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17. "I wanted it to be Iron Man, but I gotta admit it's Dark Knight"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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Fisticuffs
Member since Apr 10th 2003
4028 posts
Wed Aug-06-08 10:21 PM

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18. "Dark Knight is over rated as fuck"
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Aug-06-08 10:23 PM by Fisticuffs

          

bale did nothing. NOTHING. he couldn't carry a single scene. even deebo outshined him.

bruce wayne = boring
batman = boring

the action scenes in batman were weak. punch, elbow, punch, elbow...rinse, repeat. those were some terrible, poorly choreographed fight scenes. dude getting owned by dogs was laughable. don't get pretentious and say it's more than action. dark or not it's a comic book movie. you gotta execute the action. the final confrontation w/the joker was rather tame.

two face was pointless. he turned too fast. your girl gets killed and now you're a madman?

the joker was good but oscar worthy...FOH. i didn't find the joker scary or disturbing. he was no chigurh.

they could've trimmed 20 minutes of fat off.

that bomb/boat shit was lame. it's a dark movie have someone detonate a ship. i knew they'd wuss out and no one push the button.

wtf:
http://img2.timeinc.net/people/i/2007/stylewatch/bestlook/071126/maggie_gyllenhaal400.jpg

downey was every bit as good as ledger. whether he was starks or in the suit he shined in every scene.

the action was great in iron man. the effects were top notch.

i enjoyed iron man a lot. batman didn't move me that much.

  

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gluvnast
Member since Nov 19th 2006
2367 posts
Wed Aug-06-08 11:23 PM

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19. "RE: Dark Knight is over rated as fuck"
In response to Reply # 18


          

>bale did nothing. NOTHING. he couldn't carry a single scene.
>even deebo outshined him.

to say bale did NOTHING is completely disagreeable, the ONLY legitimate complaint that's universally accepted is his "growl" while in batman form was grating...other than that, his performance was very good, his chemistry with practically everyone was on point, whether if it's with dent, oldman, freeman, ledger (especially), caine and so on...


>the action scenes in batman were weak. punch, elbow, punch,
>elbow...rinse, repeat. those were some terrible, poorly
>choreographed fight scenes. dude getting owned by dogs was
>laughable. don't get pretentious and say it's more than
>action. dark or not it's a comic book movie. you gotta execute
>the action. the final confrontation w/the joker was rather
>tame.

i see you're one of those few that are conditioned to "the matrix", "300", "transporter" type flicks in where the action is stylistic/ slo-mo rather that a realistic, unstylistic way of fighting...batman in the comics OR the animated series NEVER fight in a stylistic, mouth-dropping way...he's always direct and to the point...if you're tripping about getting attacked by dogs, lets be realistic here, you REALLY think any mortal man, regardless of his strength, quickness or agility can seamlessly fight off 5 rocs at ONE TIME??? those are nit-picky complaints...besides, the truck vs. batpod action sequence will be remembered as one of the most MEMORABLE action sequences of this year

>
>two face was pointless. he turned too fast. your girl gets
>killed and now you're a madman?
>

apparently you missed the entire moral to this movie...the movie isn't about two-face, but about harvey dent's evolution to becoming two-face which was implied that he had it hidden in him all this time (hence him getting the nickname YEARS before even becoming DA) and joker's ideology that anyone can fall from grace, anyone can be emotionally and/or mentally turned which happened to dent...keep in mind he always had a side of him that was more angry or violent which was why he kept a double-sided coin, and that side surfaced slightly twice when he punched sal's fall guy at the courtroom, and when he kidnapped and interoggated one of joker's henchmen before batman stopped him and warned him about maintaing his positive character...he flipped because he LOVED rachel and heard her blow up right after she professed how much she wanted to be his wife, i mean DAMN, why you think batman became who HE is? because he he was a witness to the murder of the people he loved...same with dent, and he OFFICIALLY flipped fully once he saw the coin he gave to her, one side clear making his hopes slightly up and then turning the otherside and realized she was gone and KNOWS the people who were responsible...and finally the joker fuckin' with his head..i say again, it wasn't ABOUT two-face, but harvey dent's arc into becoming two-face...if you didn't like that, then i'm SURE you'll hate "a long halloween"


>the joker was good but oscar worthy...FOH. i didn't find the
>joker scary or disturbing. he was no chigurh.


even though the role of anton chigurh deserved an oscar, it earned it because of it's simplicity of that role...ledger's joker deserves it because of the complexity to pull off that role..and ot pull it off to the point in where you don't SEE ledger in bad make up, but the actual character alive right in front of you...portraying the joker is one of the MOST complexed roles to seriously play...and ledger went beyond almost EVERYONE'S expectations, which is saying alot because everybody's expectations were already high

chigurh, on the other hand, was a very emotionaless, almost non-conversationalist, type of role...but it was so effective and disturbing that it deserved that win...ledger's joker was AS disturbing but basically apples & oranges...his joker PUSHED the boundries of making this a R-rated film

>
>they could've trimmed 20 minutes of fat off.
>

possible, but trim it WHERE? practically every part of this movie has an important link to something else later

>that bomb/boat shit was lame. it's a dark movie have someone
>detonate a ship. i knew they'd wuss out and no one push the
>button.

if you're only watching it for summertime action, then you'll never appreciate the point this was making which was clearly ideological and something that will always been the debate between batman and the joker

joker believes there's no good in man, all men are born corrupted and rules or laws were made to put man in check...he's also an anarchist and wants to see the world in anarchy, hence the ferry ploy to make a double-sided point which is to build on the people's chaotic fear as well as prove that his ideology about man in general is correct...batman, obviously, believes the opposite which is there are people that are good, period...

that was an ideological battle, which was why batman didn't go to the ferry to stop the detonation, but went after the joker instead trusting the people would do the right thing...which wasn't even the explaination point to joker's ideology, because of the dent factor...hence why at the end of the movie, both gordon & batman conceded part of joker's ideology on if people known the truth about dent



>downey was every bit as good as ledger. whether he was starks
>or in the suit he shined in every scene.
>


RDJ was the ONLY reason ironman was a fun and great summer joint...and that's the only thing you can say that is great about ironman which is the RDJ's performance...other than that, the script as well as the story was predictable, the supporting cast was basic in their performances...there's no alternative outstanding performaces in comparison to eckhart or oldman, for example..the action scenes (the mere three of them) were okay at best, there's no TRUE epic memorable scene that i can recall, with the exception of the bonus after credit clip...nothing in comparison to TDK's interrogation sequence or the semi-truck flip, or the bank heist, or the pencil trick, or batman 9/11 imagery, or the joker leaving the hospital and ect....




>the action was great in iron man. the effects were top notch.
>


the CGI in ironman was great, i'll give you that...however, there was barely any CGI in TDK aside from two-face and a extremely few background touch-ups...hospital explosion-REAL, truck flip-REAL, batpod-REAL, even batman hang-gliding was real

  

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will_5198
Charter member
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Wed Aug-06-08 11:51 PM

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21. "stop. nobody wanted to see the Matrix revisited."
In response to Reply # 19


          

>i see you're one of those few that are conditioned to "the
>matrix", "300", "transporter" type flicks in where the action
>is stylistic/ slo-mo rather that a realistic, unstylistic way
>of fighting

we wanted to see interesting close combat. you can make realistic fighting exciting...other directors do it all the time.

enough with the "you just wanted bullet-time and backflips".

>direct and to the point...if you're tripping about getting
>attacked by dogs, lets be realistic here, you REALLY think any
>mortal man, regardless of his strength, quickness or agility
>can seamlessly fight off 5 rocs at ONE TIME??? those are
>nit-picky complaints

combat sucked, man. it's the truth. fucking dogs? he has a bulletproof suit on, flying around and shit with C4 grenades...

>apparently you missed the entire moral to this movie...the
>movie isn't about two-face, but about harvey dent's evolution
>to becoming two-face which was implied that he had it hidden
>in him all this time (hence him getting the nickname YEARS
>before even becoming DA)

you just threw A TON of comic book background into a story that wasn't presented at all in the ACTUAL MOVIE. Dent's transformation was not that believable and definitely rushed.

>possible, but trim it WHERE? practically every part of this
>movie has an important link to something else later

I thought so at first, but on second viewing there is definitely some unnecessary buildup. all that stuff with the guy who knew Batman's identity could have easily been axed.

really, Two-Face's entire storyline pushed things over the edge...he should have been built up and saved for the third film.

...

I didn't like Ironman better than Dark Knight tho.

--------

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
85076 posts
Thu Aug-07-08 12:03 AM

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23. "this i disagree w/"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          


>
>>apparently you missed the entire moral to this movie...the
>>movie isn't about two-face, but about harvey dent's
>evolution
>>to becoming two-face which was implied that he had it hidden
>>in him all this time (hence him getting the nickname YEARS
>>before even becoming DA)
>
>you just threw A TON of comic book background into a story
>that wasn't presented at all in the ACTUAL MOVIE. Dent's
>transformation was not that believable and definitely rushed.

Dent asks Gordon to call him what they used to call him back when he was in school or some shit.

everything gluvnast said in that paragraph was correct and if you don't believe it, maybe you need to see TDK again.

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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will_5198
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Thu Aug-07-08 12:17 AM

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24. "I wrote "edited for inane length" but it disappeared"
In response to Reply # 23
Thu Aug-07-08 12:21 AM by will_5198

          

>everything gluvnast said in that paragraph was correct and if
>you don't believe it, maybe you need to see TDK again.

no, I caught that the first time.

gluvnast's insinuation that Dent had an angry side to him "the entire time" -- "years", even -- was not well shown throughout the movie. his threatening of a gang member who seemingly shot Gordon was really the only tie-in.

having Rachel die and a pep talk from Joker didn't really convey a transformation to the point where he's killing kids.

the fact Rachel was neither hot or interesting also damages the lengths he'd be willing to go to avenge her death.

edit: also, this?

"keep in mind he always had a side of him that was more angry or violent which was why he kept a double-sided coin"

that's exactly what I'm talking about. him flipping a double-sided coin to Rachel one time hardly shows a history of angry and violent repression.

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
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Thu Aug-07-08 12:33 AM

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25. "And that first punch was hardly anger"
In response to Reply # 24
Thu Aug-07-08 12:34 AM by SoulHonky

          

Dude pulled a gun on him. If he had just recanted his testimony and THEN Dent punched him it would have shown his anger but that simply wasn't there. There's also no way having the coin showed he was angry. That's just revisionist. And people called him Two-Face because he was IAD and wouldn't overlook any misdeeds. It wasn't because he was mad.

Dent went from the supposed man of the people (even though we never really saw any people clamoring for him or him even really with the people at all) to renegade in no time flat.

I liked The Dark Knight but I don't think there's any way to argue that it shouldn't have been two movies. The Two-Face story line was horribly rushed and the ending didn't really make sense. After two boatloads people stood up to The Joker and showed they would risk their lives for what was right, they suddenly would up and lose their shit if the D.A. went crazy. Mind you, these people were already literally fleeing Gotham at the time so it's not like Dent was acting as much of a soothing presence. I really don't think Harvey Dent was anyone's white knight besides Bruce Wayne.

The film was almost all tell and no show. Better than Iron Man and very good, the film was still flawed and to fail to recognize those flaws is disingenuous IMO. You can argue that those things didn't bother you but they were definitely there.

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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gluvnast
Member since Nov 19th 2006
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Thu Aug-07-08 11:15 AM

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42. "RE: And that first punch was hardly anger"
In response to Reply # 25


          

clues to his supression...punching a dude in the courtroom, even though is WAS deserving and gave applause, it was still unprofessional for any attorney

the two-sided coin...

the kidnap and interrogation of one of joker's men, and getting pissed at batman when he said he was going to turn himself in...

how he got his nickname in the 1st place


the apex event is the death of rachel and batman saving him instead of her and hearing her blow up in combination of getting half his face burned off...

along with whut the doctor said of him refusing to take pain medication, and the joker's manipulation instill his ideology towards dent....

i think people were expecting MORE of two-face instead of understanding it's more about dent HIMSELF and how he became two-face (i don't think he's dead, but that's for another debate)

in "a long halloween" it was somewhut similar to how they done in the movie...in fact it's one of the graphic novels it was inspired from...

  

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buckshot defunct
Member since May 02nd 2003
26345 posts
Thu Aug-07-08 12:27 PM

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48. "the guy had a GUN. what would you have done, yell "Objection!"?"
In response to Reply # 42


  

          


-----------------------------
http://talestosuffice.com/
@kennykeil

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
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Thu Aug-07-08 12:35 PM

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52. "LOL."
In response to Reply # 48


          

Trying to rationalize that scene as showing anger is just silly.

Ditto for the two-headed coin which was his dad's lucky coin. Are you saying every person with a trick coin in the world has some deep repressed anger?

And again, he got the nickname because we worked in IAD and put cops in jail, not because he had some deep anger issues.

Furthermore, if all of those things were actually tell-tale signs of deeper problems, why the fuck would anyone think he's the white knight?

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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will_5198
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Thu Aug-07-08 12:28 PM

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49. "please explain how"
In response to Reply # 42


          

>the two-sided coin...

owning a double-sided coin shows an angry duality to one's mental state.

>how he got his nickname in the 1st place

that didn't show anger. like Soulhonky said, it sprung from Dent turning in dirty cops.

>in "a long halloween" it was somewhut similar to how they done
>in the movie...in fact it's one of the graphic novels it was
>inspired from...

like I said, comic book interjections that were never divulged on in the actual movie.

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buckshot defunct
Member since May 02nd 2003
26345 posts
Thu Aug-07-08 12:31 PM

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50. "also, please explain how a coin can have anything other than 2 sides"
In response to Reply # 49


  

          

>>the two-sided coin...

-----------------------------
http://talestosuffice.com/
@kennykeil

  

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Fisticuffs
Member since Apr 10th 2003
4028 posts
Thu Aug-07-08 12:58 PM

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54. "lol"
In response to Reply # 50


          

.

  

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Gemini_Two_One
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55. "LMAO!"
In response to Reply # 50


  

          


!sig!

"I used to rock and roll all night and party ev-er-ry day. Then it was every other day. Now I'm lucky if I can find half an hour a week in which to get funky." - Homer Simpson

  

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Fisticuffs
Member since Apr 10th 2003
4028 posts
Thu Aug-07-08 11:28 AM

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43. "RE: Dark Knight is over rated as fuck"
In response to Reply # 19


          

>to say bale did NOTHING is completely disagreeable, the ONLY
>legitimate complaint that's universally accepted is his
>"growl" while in batman form was grating...other than that,
>his performance was very good, his chemistry with practically
>everyone was on point, whether if it's with dent, oldman,
>freeman, ledger (especially), caine and so on...
>

bale basically plays off the other characters. he wasn't bad or good he was just there. he didn't do much that was memorable. morgan, ledger, and pretty much everyone outshined him. i can't remember a single line from him as bruce. the growl negated any line he delivered as batman.

>i see you're one of those few that are conditioned to "the
>matrix", "300", "transporter" type flicks in where the action
>is stylistic/ slo-mo rather that a realistic, unstylistic way
>of fighting...batman in the comics OR the animated series
>NEVER fight in a stylistic, mouth-dropping way...he's always
>direct and to the point...if you're tripping about getting
>attacked by dogs, lets be realistic here, you REALLY think any
>mortal man, regardless of his strength, quickness or agility
>can seamlessly fight off 5 rocs at ONE TIME??? those are
>nit-picky complaints...besides, the truck vs. batpod action
>sequence will be remembered as one of the most MEMORABLE
>action sequences of this year
>

way to make assumptions. i never said add slo-mo did i? he did the same punch/elbow combo IN EVERY FIGHT. how about a back hand or roundhouse? diversify please.

as for the dogs, isn't batman the master of prep time? after getting attacked by a dog in the opening fight i assumed he'd prepare for it when he got his new suit. where's the utility belt anti dog gas? no way should he have not adapted.

>
>apparently you missed the entire moral to this movie...the
>movie isn't about two-face, but about harvey dent's evolution
>to becoming two-face which was implied that he had it hidden
>in him all this time (hence him getting the nickname YEARS
>before even becoming DA) and joker's ideology that anyone can
>fall from grace, anyone can be emotionally and/or mentally
>turned which happened to dent...keep in mind he always had a
>side of him that was more angry or violent which was why he
>kept a double-sided coin, and that side surfaced slightly
>twice when he punched sal's fall guy at the courtroom, and
>when he kidnapped and interoggated one of joker's henchmen
>before batman stopped him and warned him about maintaing his
>positive character...he flipped because he LOVED rachel and
>heard her blow up right after she professed how much she
>wanted to be his wife, i mean DAMN, why you think batman
>became who HE is? because he he was a witness to the murder of
>the people he loved...same with dent, and he OFFICIALLY
>flipped fully once he saw the coin he gave to her, one side
>clear making his hopes slightly up and then turning the
>otherside and realized she was gone and KNOWS the people who
>were responsible...and finally the joker fuckin' with his
>head..i say again, it wasn't ABOUT two-face, but harvey dent's
>arc into becoming two-face...if you didn't like that, then i'm
>SURE you'll hate "a long halloween"
>
>

the movie didn't need two villains to begin with. dent/two face got a lot of screen time. as for his turn, nothing we had seen showed him to be a murderer. not to mention that bs he pulled shooting the driver in a moving car. he went to stuntman school after he left the hospital?

>
>even though the role of anton chigurh deserved an oscar, it
>earned it because of it's simplicity of that role...ledger's
>joker deserves it because of the complexity to pull off that
>role..and ot pull it off to the point in where you don't SEE
>ledger in bad make up, but the actual character alive right in
>front of you...portraying the joker is one of the MOST
>complexed roles to seriously play...and ledger went beyond
>almost EVERYONE'S expectations, which is saying alot because
>everybody's expectations were already high
>

chigurh better.

>chigurh, on the other hand, was a very emotionaless, almost
>non-conversationalist, type of role...but it was so effective
>and disturbing that it deserved that win...ledger's joker was
>AS disturbing but basically apples & oranges...his joker
>PUSHED the boundries of making this a R-rated film
>

i didn't find the joker that disturbing but ledger was good but not oscar good. you can't crown him with an oscar when the real oscar movies haven't even come out yet.

>
>possible, but trim it WHERE? practically every part of this
>movie has an important link to something else later
>

too much dent. save two face for part 3. the joker should've been the only villain. two face took up at least 10-15 minutes. the "i know bruce is batman" kid was useless. that was dvd/deleted scene shit. that's another 5-10 minutes trimmed off.

>
>if you're only watching it for summertime action, then you'll
>never appreciate the point this was making which was clearly
>ideological and something that will always been the debate
>between batman and the joker
>

don't get pretentious and don't plea cop.

i wasn't watching it just for action. i expected more story not the transporter (which i never saw). the story was flawed as was the action. let's not act like the action is irrelevant. as much as the fanboys want to sell this as some grand piece of cinema it's still batman. it's still a fucking guy a bat suit fighting crime. it's still a fucking comic book movie. it's not heat or any other crime drama.

if you're going to have action scenes they should be done well. they weren't. you have to judge the totality of the movie. it had action did it not? you can't tell me those fights were exciting. saying "batman is a direct fighter" is flat out plea copping. that's nolan not knowing how to do a good fight scene. i'm not looking for jackie chan moves. dude literally did the same combo over and over. you can do basic, direct fighting and be creative.


>joker believes there's no good in man, all men are born
>corrupted and rules or laws were made to put man in
>check...he's also an anarchist and wants to see the world in
>anarchy, hence the ferry ploy to make a double-sided point
>which is to build on the people's chaotic fear as well as
>prove that his ideology about man in general is
>correct...batman, obviously, believes the opposite which is
>there are people that are good, period...
>

i already the joker's motives vs batman's. that's fairly obvious. this is not a movie that deserves deep character analysis. that said, for a "dark" movie it would've had more impact for someone to push the button. that would've proved that the joker's "corruption" theory is valid. it would've fucked batman's head up and even though the joker got caught he still won. i knew no one would push the button which was a cop out to me. go all the way. joker corrupting two face was weak compared to the impact of the a ship explosion. the only death that had anything to it was the joker killing the fake batman kid.

>that was an ideological battle, which was why batman didn't go
>to the ferry to stop the detonation, but went after the joker
>instead trusting the people would do the right thing...which
>wasn't even the explaination point to joker's ideology,
>because of the dent factor...hence why at the end of the
>movie, both gordon & batman conceded part of joker's ideology
>on if people known the truth about dent
>

fuck dent, blow the people up. they didn't have the guts to show that. after deebo threw the detonator out the civilians should've blown up the criminals. i knew 100% that button wasn't getting pushed. not because of some philosophical reason but because i new it's a batman movie and they can't go all the way dark. in a comic they could blow those people up but not a movie.

>
>RDJ was the ONLY reason ironman was a fun and great summer
>joint...and that's the only thing you can say that is great
>about ironman which is the RDJ's performance...other than
>that, the script as well as the story was predictable, the
>supporting cast was basic in their performances...there's no
>alternative outstanding performaces in comparison to eckhart
>or oldman, for example..the action scenes (the mere three of
>them) were okay at best, there's no TRUE epic memorable scene
>that i can recall, with the exception of the bonus after
>credit clip...nothing in comparison to TDK's interrogation
>sequence or the semi-truck flip, or the bank heist, or the
>pencil trick, or batman 9/11 imagery, or the joker leaving the
>hospital and ect....
>


rdj was on screen 90% of the time. it was an origin story. iron man isn't a ensemble piece. it's all about tony even more so than his hero persona.

iron man's action > then batman's

the 1st iron man suit and the cave fight was better than any action scene in batman.

>
>the CGI in ironman was great, i'll give you that...however,
>there was barely any CGI in TDK aside from two-face and a
>extremely few background touch-ups...hospital explosion-REAL,
>truck flip-REAL, batpod-REAL, even batman hang-gliding was
>real
>

i never said batman had cgi i'm just pointing out a huge poisitive in iron man. it's wasn't a movie based on cinematography but an fx movie. iron man's cgi was as pretty as batman's scenery.

  

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Brother_Afron
Member since Jul 06th 2003
3812 posts
Thu Aug-07-08 12:34 PM

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51. "RE: Dark Knight is over rated as fuck"
In response to Reply # 43


  

          

>>to say bale did NOTHING is completely disagreeable, the
>ONLY

>bale basically plays off the other characters. he wasn't bad
>or good he was just there. he didn't do much that was
>memorable. morgan, ledger, and pretty much everyone outshined
>him. i can't remember a single line from him as bruce. the
>growl negated any line he delivered as batman.
>>>>>>>>

The only Bruce line I can recall at the moment is, "accomplice? I'm telling them it was your idea", which was playing off Alfred so your point stands.


>
>way to make assumptions. i never said add slo-mo did i? he did
>the same punch/elbow combo IN EVERY FIGHT. how about a back
>hand or roundhouse? diversify please.>>>

Those fight scenes looked like a fighting game character being controlled by a button masher.


>
>the movie didn't need two villains to begin with.>>>>

Dent wasn't one of the villains anymore than Uncle Ben's mugger was in
the first Spider-Man.

>
>i didn't find the joker that disturbing but ledger was good
>but not oscar good. you can't crown him with an oscar when the
>real oscar movies haven't even come out yet.
>>>>>

That's some elitist shit right there. Not that it's unexpected.

>
>too much dent. save two face for part 3. the joker should've
>been the only villain. two face took up at least 10-15
>minutes. the "i know bruce is batman" kid was useless. that
>was dvd/deleted scene shit. that's another 5-10 minutes
>trimmed off.
>

That's like saying you should take Bruce out of Batman Begins. The Dark Knight was about the tragic fall of Harvey Dent. Take Harvey out of the picture and there is no story.



>
>i already the joker's motives vs batman's. that's fairly
>obvious. this is not a movie that deserves deep character
>analysis. that said, for a "dark" movie it would've had more
>impact for someone to push the button.>>>>>

It was a dark movie without anyone pushes the button so I don't see how it would've been needed.

that would've proved
>that the joker's "corruption" theory is valid.>>>>>

The point was that Joker's theory wasn't valid. Look at Deebo's character. They made sure they picked the biggest, meanest negro they could find in order to show that this convicted murderer, wasn't about to blow up a boat full of people just to save his own life.


>
>in a comic they could blow those people up
>but not a movie.>>

They wouldn't have put that in the comic.


Fun is the new gritty

  

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icecold21
Member since Jan 18th 2008
8433 posts
Thu Aug-07-08 01:11 AM

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27. "It should not even be this close"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

TDK by far

I don't get why people are so mad at TDK's success. I don't know how it can be called overrated, especially in light of all the bullshit that people usually trip all over and want to give awards to and shit. But whatever, there are always haters, even Jordan got em.

_________________________________________

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Thu Aug-07-08 09:01 AM

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32. "Exactly. Ironman is far better."
In response to Reply # 27


  

          


>I don't get why people are so mad at TDK's success.

Because its not a very good movie.

Way too many dumbass gimmicks

Boring, underdeveloped characters

Unimpressive superhero protagonist

Tons of plotholes

All it has is the dead guy in it, really

and one liners from the Joker

'Ironman' got it in every way

Shit was just fire

>I don't
>know how it can be called overrated, especially in light of
>all the bullshit that people usually trip all over and want to
>give awards to and shit. But whatever, there are always
>haters, even Jordan got em.

Jordan? Are you comparing TDK to Jordan?

Jesus





----------------------------


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.



"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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icecold21
Member since Jan 18th 2008
8433 posts
Thu Aug-07-08 03:48 PM

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59. "No, I'm just saying that even someone that is as near unanimously"
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

accepted as GOAT as Jordan has haters, so it figures that everything, including TDK, would have haters as well.

It was not boring, characters were not underdeveloped, it was not gimmicky or unimpressive. It was very true to the characters ( a lot more than Iron Man (Tony Stark was never that funny)), and never had a any dull moments despite its two and a half hour run time.

I was suggesting that people hate it because of how hyped and praised it is, because it's breaking all the records, and because everyone loves it, so they're all like, I didn't enjoy it as much as everyone else, people are just buying into the hype, people love it because Heath is dead, the praise is undeserved, and because it just wasn't for me but so many other people liked it, I'm going to not be one of the fools to get sucked into the bullshit that's it's the greatest thing ever and I'm going to hate on it.

Or maybe they're just bitter contrarians that enjoy drinking Haterade.

I don't know, but either way it doesn't make much of sense to me.

_________________________________________

  

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will_5198
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Thu Aug-07-08 03:53 PM

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60. "it's all even."
In response to Reply # 59


          

there are anti-hype haters, just like there are delusional fanboys.

just b/c you bring up flaws in a movie discussion doesn't mean you have some ulterior motive.

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Thu Aug-07-08 08:58 AM

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31. "'Iron Man' didn't have any dead people in it"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


But other than that, this is a laugher

Ironman was faaaaaar better.

Not even close, really

Less dumbass holes in it

Far fewer gimmicks

All Dark Knight had was cutesy one liners
from the dead man


----------------------------


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.



"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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Brother_Afron
Member since Jul 06th 2003
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Thu Aug-07-08 09:36 AM

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35. "RE: 'Iron Man' didn't have any dead people in it"
In response to Reply # 31


  

          

>
>But other than that, this is a laugher
>
>Ironman was faaaaaar better.
>
>Not even close, really
>>>>>

I think they're very close.

>
>Less dumbass holes in it
>>>>

Such as?

>Far fewer gimmicks
>>>

Such as?

>All Dark Knight had was cutesy one liners
>from the dead man
>>>>

We gonna pretend that Tony Stark's one liners aren't what put it over the top?

Fun is the new gritty

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Thu Aug-07-08 03:35 PM

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57. "Check the other Dark Knight posts"
In response to Reply # 35


  

          


I've effectively exposed that waste of
time for what it is

Not a very good movie

  

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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
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Thu Aug-07-08 06:10 PM

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65. "You said it was a B-. You is mad."
In response to Reply # 57


  

          

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

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Orbit_Established
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80. "Its actually a B-/C+. Its really not very good."
In response to Reply # 65


  

          


Above average, but an overall painful film to watch,
one that I'll surely never, ever, ever, see again.

Ironman was pure unadulterated heat

----------------------------


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.



"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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kaytomah
Member since Oct 22nd 2004
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Thu Aug-07-08 10:13 AM

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37. "RE: Iron Man V Dark Knight"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

TDK was ambitious while IM was fun. But I give the edge to TDK for its political message which was really Republican in nature. Wayne used technology to spied on everyone which eventually led to the Joker coming to the final party. This sound so much like G. W. Bush.

The D. A./Two-face becomes C. Powell in a sense since he is the moral face of the city just like Powell out the UN.


Damn, TDK was long and I snoozed a few times.


I love Africans, but HATE the N-gger in YOU!!!

  

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gluvnast
Member since Nov 19th 2006
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Thu Aug-07-08 11:30 AM

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44. "i think it's nolan's belief on american ideology"
In response to Reply # 37


          

at 1st, i thought it was pro-bush, but when i think about it more, it's a balance and conflict of both working..with batman trying to keep everything stable vs. the joker keeping everything chaotic

batman, as well as gordon, had to do alot of things that maybe either illegal or immoral, or down right unconstitutional to eradicate the existing terrorism that the joker had created, but at whut cost? by the end of the movie, technically the joker WON...even by covering up the truth about dent, they accepted the ideology the joker had about mankind in general....gordon & batman could of released the truth about dent to the people and trusted their goodwill that they'll still have faith & hope, but deep down they know they're pessimistic and have no love for the police department or batman by the end of this film and that would only make it reach their breaking point like the joker predicted it would...

like you see alfred having a neoconservative POV in "burning the entire forest down" in order to catch the bandit, which we pretty much tried to do in both afghanistan in trying to catch bin laden and iraq in getting rid of saddam...and you can tell fox have a liberal POV in his total dismay of the sonar-telecom survellience system, because he feels that one person should not have that much power, yet the circumstances pressure it to make it not a choice

even the mob & wayne enterprises with the chinese is an implied parallel to our relationship with china, especially with the gun malfunction, and how lao took all of the mob's money in a "safe place"...interesting metaphors throughout this movie


  

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Fisticuffs
Member since Apr 10th 2003
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Thu Aug-07-08 12:36 PM

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53. "No you didn't just write a political essay on Batman"
In response to Reply # 44


          

.

  

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Gemini_Two_One
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67. "This dude sees images of Christian Bale in tortillas"
In response to Reply # 53


  

          


!sig!

"I used to rock and roll all night and party ev-er-ry day. Then it was every other day. Now I'm lucky if I can find half an hour a week in which to get funky." - Homer Simpson

  

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40thStreetBlack
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97. "hey, maybe he could write for the Wall Street Journal (swipe)"
In response to Reply # 53


          

was it this bad before Rupert bought it?

http://online.wsj.com/article_print/SB121694247343482821.html

What Bush and Batman Have in Common
By ANDREW KLAVAN
July 25, 2008; Page A15

A cry for help goes out from a city beleaguered by violence and fear: A beam of light flashed into the night sky, the dark symbol of a bat projected onto the surface of the racing clouds . . .

Oh, wait a minute. That's not a bat, actually. In fact, when you trace the outline with your finger, it looks kind of like . . . a "W."

There seems to me no question that the Batman film "The Dark Knight," currently breaking every box office record in history, is at some level a paean of praise to the fortitude and moral courage that has been shown by George W. Bush in this time of terror and war. Like W, Batman is vilified and despised for confronting terrorists in the only terms they understand. Like W, Batman sometimes has to push the boundaries of civil rights to deal with an emergency, certain that he will re-establish those boundaries when the emergency is past.

And like W, Batman understands that there is no moral equivalence between a free society -- in which people sometimes make the wrong choices -- and a criminal sect bent on destruction. The former must be cherished even in its moments of folly; the latter must be hounded to the gates of Hell.

"The Dark Knight," then, is a conservative movie about the war on terror. And like another such film, last year's "300," "The Dark Knight" is making a fortune depicting the values and necessities that the Bush administration cannot seem to articulate for beans.

Conversely, time after time, left-wing films about the war on terror -- films like "In The Valley of Elah," "Rendition" and "Redacted" -- which preach moral equivalence and advocate surrender, that disrespect the military and their mission, that seem unable to distinguish the difference between America and Islamo-fascism, have bombed more spectacularly than Operation Shock and Awe.

Why is it then that left-wingers feel free to make their films direct and realistic, whereas Hollywood conservatives have to put on a mask in order to speak what they know to be the truth? Why is it, indeed, that the conservative values that power our defense -- values like morality, faith, self-sacrifice and the nobility of fighting for the right -- only appear in fantasy or comic-inspired films like "300," "Lord of the Rings," "Narnia," "Spiderman 3" and now "The Dark Knight"?

The moment filmmakers take on the problem of Islamic terrorism in realistic films, suddenly those values vanish. The good guys become indistinguishable from the bad guys, and we end up denigrating the very heroes who defend us. Why should this be?

The answers to these questions seem to me to be embedded in the story of "The Dark Knight" itself: Doing what's right is hard, and speaking the truth is dangerous. Many have been abhorred for it, some killed, one crucified.

Leftists frequently complain that right-wing morality is simplistic. Morality is relative, they say; nuanced, complex. They're wrong, of course, even on their own terms.

Left and right, all Americans know that freedom is better than slavery, that love is better than hate, kindness better than cruelty, tolerance better than bigotry. We don't always know how we know these things, and yet mysteriously we know them nonetheless.

The true complexity arises when we must defend these values in a world that does not universally embrace them -- when we reach the place where we must be intolerant in order to defend tolerance, or unkind in order to defend kindness, or hateful in order to defend what we love.

When heroes arise who take those difficult duties on themselves, it is tempting for the rest of us to turn our backs on them, to vilify them in order to protect our own appearance of righteousness. We prosecute and execrate the violent soldier or the cruel interrogator in order to parade ourselves as paragons of the peaceful values they preserve. As Gary Oldman's Commissioner Gordon says of the hated and hunted Batman, "He has to run away -- because we have to chase him."

That's real moral complexity. And when our artistic community is ready to show that sometimes men must kill in order to preserve life; that sometimes they must violate their values in order to maintain those values; and that while movie stars may strut in the bright light of our adulation for pretending to be heroes, true heroes often must slink in the shadows, slump-shouldered and despised -- then and only then will we be able to pay President Bush his due and make good and true films about the war on terror.

Perhaps that's when Hollywood conservatives will be able to take off their masks and speak plainly in the light of day.

Mr. Klavan has won two Edgar Awards from the Mystery Writers of America. His new novel, "Empire of Lies" (An Otto Penzler Book, Harcourt), is about an ordinary man confronting the war on terror.

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

  

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Brother_Afron
Member since Jul 06th 2003
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Thu Aug-07-08 02:15 PM

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56. "::Terrorist fist bumps you::"
In response to Reply # 44


  

          

>at 1st, i thought it was pro-bush, but when i think about it
>more, it's a balance and conflict of both working..with batman
>trying to keep everything stable vs. the joker keeping
>everything chaotic
>
>batman, as well as gordon, had to do alot of things that maybe
>either illegal or immoral, or down right unconstitutional to
>eradicate the existing terrorism that the joker had created,
>but at whut cost? by the end of the movie, technically the
>joker WON...even by covering up the truth about dent, they
>accepted the ideology the joker had about mankind in
>general....gordon & batman could of released the truth about
>dent to the people and trusted their goodwill that they'll
>still have faith & hope, but deep down they know they're
>pessimistic and have no love for the police department or
>batman by the end of this film and that would only make it
>reach their breaking point like the joker predicted it
>would...
>
>like you see alfred having a neoconservative POV in "burning
>the entire forest down" in order to catch the bandit, which we
>pretty much tried to do in both afghanistan in trying to catch
>bin laden and iraq in getting rid of saddam...and you can tell
>fox have a liberal POV in his total dismay of the
>sonar-telecom survellience system, because he feels that one
>person should not have that much power, yet the circumstances
>pressure it to make it not a choice
>
>even the mob & wayne enterprises with the chinese is an
>implied parallel to our relationship with china, especially
>with the gun malfunction, and how lao took all of the mob's
>money in a "safe place"...interesting metaphors throughout
>this movie
>
>
>

Fun is the new gritty

  

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40thStreetBlack
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Thu Aug-07-08 04:59 PM

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61. "it's the opposite actually"
In response to Reply # 37


          

>TDK for its political message which was really Republican in
>nature. Wayne used technology to spied on everyone which
>eventually led to the Joker coming to the final party. This
>sound so much like G. W. Bush.

Bats used it once under extenuating circumstances and destroyed it after. Bush tried to make that shit permanent. it was a critique of Bush actually.


>The D. A./Two-face becomes C. Powell in a sense since he is
>the moral face of the city just like Powell out the UN.

that's kindof a reach.

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

  

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gluvnast
Member since Nov 19th 2006
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Thu Aug-07-08 06:43 PM

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71. "i'd say it's just the paradox of american politics as a whole"
In response to Reply # 61


          

i mean even obama eventually had to relent to the FISA bill...

like i said, i don't see it as "pro-bush" but the reality of how those type of decisions are difficult, especially when they go against your moral beliefs...either way, this movie's DEFINITELY a metaphor on america's war on terror and our actions behind it...

those 9/11 images of batman & the firemen after rachel's death were hauntingly blatant

  

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40thStreetBlack
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Fri Aug-08-08 12:02 PM

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87. "it was definitely a critique"
In response to Reply # 71


          

>i mean even obama eventually had to relent to the FISA
>bill...

well that's politics, not ideology. but yeah.

>like i said, i don't see it as "pro-bush" but the reality of
>how those type of decisions are difficult, especially when
>they go against your moral beliefs...either way, this movie's
>DEFINITELY a metaphor on america's war on terror and our
>actions behind it...

yeah pretty much.

>those 9/11 images of batman & the firemen after rachel's death
>were hauntingly blatant

I was engrossed enough in the movie to not even think about that at the time, but yeah it was.


___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

  

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DrNO
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72. "That's still a cop out"
In response to Reply # 61


  

          

It would have been great if Fox had just unplugged the thing and left Batman on his own. Making a point that stripping away civil liberties in the face of a crisis is a very pro neo-con stand.

_
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4TztqYaemt0
http://preptimeposse.blogspot.com/

  

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gluvnast
Member since Nov 19th 2006
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Fri Aug-08-08 12:48 AM

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77. "well he always had faith in bruce in doing the right thing"
In response to Reply # 72


          

and if you listened to that last monologue, his faith was rewarded....

  

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40thStreetBlack
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Fri Aug-08-08 12:48 PM

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90. "not really"
In response to Reply # 72


          

>It would have been great if Fox had just unplugged the thing
>and left Batman on his own.

that would've been dumb though.

Making a point that stripping away
>civil liberties in the face of a crisis is a very pro neo-con
>stand.

they still made the point though. point is Bats knew it was a dangerous thing & made sure to A) not wield the power directly by himself (checks & balances) and B) destroy it immediately after. whereas the neo-con stand is no checks and balances & to make it permanent. it was a direct critique of the neo-con stand.

___________________

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DrNO
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Fri Aug-08-08 07:46 PM

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115. "What if Bats and Fox decide that there will always be a threat?"
In response to Reply # 90


  

          

(which was the theme of the film and the Neo-con argument).

The righteous move would be to not venture down that path at all.

I guess this just puts them on Obama's level for now.

_
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4TztqYaemt0
http://preptimeposse.blogspot.com/

  

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gluvnast
Member since Nov 19th 2006
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Sat Aug-09-08 04:28 PM

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123. "i think bruce knew ahead of time that fox would hate it"
In response to Reply # 115


          

hence why he told him to type his name which detonates the system.

it's MORE interesting that gordon & batman agreeing to withhold the truth about dent to the people of gotham

that's one of the CORE of neoconservatism, which exploits idealism instead of realism

  

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40thStreetBlack
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Sat Aug-09-08 04:42 PM

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125. "you people are being ridiculous with this neocon argument"
In response to Reply # 123


          

>it's MORE interesting that gordon & batman agreeing to
>withhold the truth about dent to the people of gotham
>
>that's one of the CORE of neoconservatism, which exploits
>idealism instead of realism

cmon. y'all are really reaching with alladat.

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

  

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gluvnast
Member since Nov 19th 2006
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Sat Aug-09-08 05:32 PM

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130. "alot of people right down to even glenn beck"
In response to Reply # 125


          

discussed the political aspects of this movie

in fact, read this:

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/910009/the_politics_of_the_dark_knight.html


Are You Sure it's Not Fascist?
There are those who will argue that not all movies have a political point of view, especially not fun summer romps, and ask the mocking question that the movie poses itself, "Why so serious?" But "The Dark Knight" makes no secret of its ambitions. From the crumbling building behind Batman in the publication posters to the overt reference to warrantless wiretapping, this movie is an explicit commentary on the times we live in.

"The Dark Knight" approaches its topic from all angles, widely spattering moral conflicts on the screen like buckshot. I would have sworn it had an obvious point of view. I came away sure that this movie is anti-torture, anti-vigilanti, anti-totalitarianism, but it makes its points so obliquely that reviewers are arguing about it all over the internet. The Wall Street Journal actually asserts that Batman represents George Bush who must ride off into that good night while leaving us with the shiny but secretly empty Obamican Hope. Matt Yglesias even thought the movie had fascist overtones.

Meanwhile, conservative writers whine,

"The film champions the antiwar coalition's claim that, in having a war on terror, you create the conditions for more terror. We are shown that innocent people died because of Batman - and he falls for it. Here is a Batman consumed with liberal guilt and self-loathing. I wanted to scream: 'No, you Guardian-reading freak, don't you see? It's the Joker's fault, not yours.' But I knew I would never reach him, for today's heroes want to be zeroes."

I left the movie quite moved by "The Dark Knight's" demonstration of how terrorism seeks to undermine law, stability, and essential goodness. That terrorism works only when we let it make monsters of us. So I was shocked to find that my husband thought the movie was saying that evil was justified and necessary. Brilliant as my husband is, he is agreeing with the Wall Street Journal, and therefore assuredly wrong.

The constant refrain of the movie is "Die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become a villain." And I think the writers mean that literally. If you won't risk your life for your values, then you're not a hero. And if you resort to evil to fight villainy, then you're a villain. Maybe you do have to commit evil to survive, but it's still evil, it's still illegal, and it needs to be. Even Batman knows this.

I think a deep reading of the movie demonstrates a pattern: Every time torture is employed it fails miserably and the Joker wins. Every time corruption is condoned, every time the rules are compromised, it creates an escalation in the violence. When Batman makes a selfish choice, it ultimately costs him badly because evil is one step ahead. The vigilantism exhibited by the citizens in Gotham, whether impersonating batman or trying to take matters into their own hands, goes badly awry and is roundly condemned by Batman himself. Moreover, some of the audience in our theater actually cheered when a hardened criminal shows himself to be more noble than the "security moms" in the other boat. In fact, if the movie had wanted to prove the Wall Street Journal's point, then the entire boat sequence would have ended quite differently than it did.


Fight villainy on its own terms, and you'll become a villain. You may find 'safety' but you'll lose everything that matters to you, as Batman does. That's the moral of this story; and I think no accident that Alfred tells Bruce Wayne "Some men just like to watch the world burn" then recalls that the way the English dealt with bandits in Burma was to burn it.

The Artistry
I admit that the messages in this film may be a Rorschach test because the writers show rather than tell. This movie doesn't lecture you, it presents moral quandaries that make you draw your own conclusion. I think this is why it succeeds where other movies that have taken on our contemporary political issues have failed.

Best of all, the movie pulls this off not by upping the sensationalism, but by bringing the problems back to the real world. In comparison to other superhero films, "The Dark Knight" is CGI minimalist--and the Joker does most of his villainy with simple things like gasoline, bullets, and psychological games. Gotham no longer looks like a cartoon city; it looks like Chicago. And the real hero of this film is neither Harvey Dent nor Bruce Wayne, but an everyman, unsung and unassuming: Commissioner Gordon, whose basic decency derives from small flaws and ordinary courage.

Ultimately, it's a brave film that nearly undermines the entire foundation of superhero legends in the process of making what is ultimately a grown up tale about the human condition and a haunting tragedy.

  

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40thStreetBlack
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Sat Aug-09-08 05:50 PM

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131. "I never said the movie has no political aspects"
In response to Reply # 130


          

I actually agreed that is does. what I said is that it's not promoting a neocon argument; in fact, it's a direct criticism of neocon arguments. to wit:


>I think a deep reading of the movie demonstrates a pattern:
>Every time torture is employed it fails miserably and the
>Joker wins. Every time corruption is condoned, every time the
>rules are compromised, it creates an escalation in the
>violence. When Batman makes a selfish choice, it ultimately
>costs him badly because evil is one step ahead. The
>vigilantism exhibited by the citizens in Gotham, whether
>impersonating batman or trying to take matters into their own
>hands, goes badly awry and is roundly condemned by Batman
>himself. Moreover, some of the audience in our theater
>actually cheered when a hardened criminal shows himself to be
>more noble than the "security moms" in the other boat. In
>fact, if the movie had wanted to prove the Wall Street
>Journal's point, then the entire boat sequence would have
>ended quite differently than it did.
>
>
>Fight villainy on its own terms, and you'll become a villain.
>You may find 'safety' but you'll lose everything that matters
>to you, as Batman does. That's the moral of this story;



___________________

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gluvnast
Member since Nov 19th 2006
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Sat Aug-09-08 06:03 PM

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134. "i'm not saying (me, personally) it's pro-neocon"
In response to Reply # 131


          

just stating that there's several themes in this film that backs the ideas of neoconservatism...

i personally think this movie is nolan's idea of whut america had become post 9/11...and there's liberal & conservative viewpoints throughout the movie...

at one hand you have alfred's belief in you have to burn the entire forest to catch the bandit, dent's ideas which rachel discreet implied it promotes fascism which dent brushes of with one of the most important quotes in the movie "either you die a hero or live long enough to become the villian"

of course we got fox's obvious liberal stance, and gordon's acceptence of covering the truth from public and replace the truth with idealism

finally you have the joker's absolute anarchist ideology...in which he believes mankind should live without any rules


it's not reaching, it's a smart political take about america during this post 9/11 age...i think some people have trouble accepting it since it based upon an iconic comic book character

  

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40thStreetBlack
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Sat Aug-09-08 06:18 PM

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137. "it doesn't back neocon ideas though, it directly criticizes them"
In response to Reply # 134


          

>at one hand you have alfred's belief in you have to burn the
>entire forest to catch the bandit,

that wasn't necessarily alfred's belief, he just said that's what they did.

>and gordon's
>acceptence of covering the truth from public and replace the
>truth with idealism

that part had nothing to do with neoconservatism.

>finally you have the joker's absolute anarchist ideology...in
>which he believes mankind should live without any rules

neither does that.


>it's not reaching, it's a smart political take about america
>during this post 9/11 age...i think some people have trouble
>accepting it since it based upon an iconic comic book
>character

again, I agree that it's a political take on post 9/11 america. It's a reach that it backs neoconservative ideas though, because it is in fact actually a pointed criticism of them.

___________________

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gluvnast
Member since Nov 19th 2006
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Sat Aug-09-08 10:57 PM

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150. "RE: it doesn't back neocon ideas though, it directly criticizes them"
In response to Reply # 137


          


>
>that wasn't necessarily alfred's belief, he just said that's
>what they did.
>
samething, alfred went along with it, which is why he was the 1st ones that understood the joker as being more than a common criminal


>
>that part had nothing to do with neoconservatism.
>

that's whut neoconservatism is all about! they believe that american idealism should be the driving force. it's the reason why patriotism is an exploited ideal right down to wearing flag pin...it's why FOX NEWS tell their version of "the truth"...


>
>again, I agree that it's a political take on post 9/11
>america. It's a reach that it backs neoconservative ideas
>though, because it is in fact actually a pointed criticism of
>them.


chris nolan wasn't trying to promote OR criticize the actions made within this movie...he's just showing that there are certain decisions that aren't going to be easy or fair....neoconservatism is one of them...i dunno how this movie is criticizing neoconservatism when people like batman and gordon making conscious decision to do things that maybe unethical, but serve to protect the people...

  

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40thStreetBlack
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Mon Aug-11-08 01:59 PM

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186. "RE: it doesn't back neocon ideas though, it directly criticizes them"
In response to Reply # 150
Mon Aug-11-08 02:02 PM by 40thStreetBlack

          

>samething, alfred went along with it, which is why he was the
>1st ones that understood the joker as being more than a common
>criminal

no it's not the same thing. if alfred had told bruce that he had to burn down gotham to catch the joker, then it would be the same thing.



>>that part had nothing to do with neoconservatism.
>>
>
>that's whut neoconservatism is all about! they believe that
>american idealism should be the driving force. it's the reason
>why patriotism is an exploited ideal right down to wearing
>flag pin...it's why FOX NEWS tell their version of "the
>truth"...

uh, same could be said for communism (Stalinist version). does that mean that it's a comment on Stalinist Russia?


>chris nolan wasn't trying to promote OR criticize the actions
>made within this movie...he's just showing that there are
>certain decisions that aren't going to be easy or
>fair....neoconservatism is one of them...

yes he was showing that certain decisions aren't easy or fair. he was also directly criticizing how far the neocons have gone with some of those decisions.


i dunno how this
>movie is criticizing neoconservatism when people like batman
>and gordon making conscious decision to do things that maybe
>unethical, but serve to protect the people...

I already explained how.

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gluvnast
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132. "or read this if you think that's reaching:"
In response to Reply # 130


          

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,24099007-5000117,00.html

FINALLY Hollywood makes a film that says President George W Bush was right.

But director Christopher Nolan had to disguise it a little, so journalists wouldn't freak and the film's more fashionable stars wouldn't walk.

So he hides Bush in a cape. He even sticks a mask on him, with pointy ears for some reason.

Sure, when the terrified citizens of Gotham City scream for Bush to come save them, Nolan has them shine a great W in the night sky, but he blurs it so it looks more like a bird.

Or a bat, perhaps.

And he has them call their hero not Mr Bush, of course, or even "Mr President", but . . . Batman.

And what do you know.

Bush may be one of the most despised presidents in American history, but this movie of his struggle is now smashing all box-office records.

Critics weep, audiences swoon - and suddenly the world sees Bush's agonising dilemma and sympathises with what it had been taught so long to despise.

Well, "taught" isn't actually the exact word.

As this superb Batman retelling, The Dark Knight, makes clear, its subject is a weakness that runs instinctively through us - to hate a hero who, in saving us, exposes our fears, prods our weaknesses, calls from us more than we want to give, or can.

And how we resent a hero who must shake our world in order to save it, or brings alive that maxim of George Orwell that so implicates us in our preening piety: "Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

(Alert! Alert! Spoilers ahead. Do not read on if you plan to see the film.)

This is The Dark Knight's theme. See how Bush - oops, I mean Batman - must time and again compromise his values, and ours, to save his city from far greater evils.

And see how Nolan, who wrote the script with his younger brother Jonathan, empathises with him every time - as does the audience in the wide-eyed dark.

How many examples do you want?

There's the scene at the police station in which Batman tortures Heath Ledger's sensationally vivid Joker - trying to cave in his face rather than simply, say, waterboarding him, as the CIA did to three of al-Qaida's most senior commanders.

The audience understands.

Batman has resorted to the last hope to make this terrorist squeal, because only the Joker has the information the police need to save two goodies who have just minutes left to live.

Of course, Batman is considerate enough to first jam shut the cell door with a chair, which means Commissioner Gordon and the police - who were watching through a one-way window - can rush to stop this terrible infringement of a prisoner's human rights yet still conveniently fail to break in.

This helps them to preserve their purity while still getting from Batman the addresses they so gratefully grab with their clean hands.

Note well this detail. We can pose as pure because harder men do what we need to keep safe - so safe, that we can afford to later despise them for it.

See it again when Bush - damn, I did it again - Batman, I mean, bugs every phone in the city to identify the whereabouts of the Joker, hoping to stop him before he blows up a shipload of civilians.

His techno-whiz, Lucius Fox (Morgan Freeman), is almost as horrified as a New York Times reporter told that Bush wants to wiretap the international calls of terror suspects.

"This is wrong," he editorialises. "Spying on 30 million people isn't part of my job description."

What a wonderful conscience. How brightly that man's halo will shine when the fighting is done, and the human rights seminars begin in the campuses of cities made secure.

But, of course, even Lucius, thrust not into a newspaper office but into a position of responsibility where he must choose urgently between moralising or saving lives on a ticking time-bomb of a ship, chooses to help Batman bug just seconds after declaring it "wrong". For the record.

It's the choice the audience always knew he'd make, and would have despised him for dodging.

But the residents of Gotham? They soon end up hating Batman.

If he hadn't gone after the Joker so hard, they cry, maybe the Joker wouldn't have blown up their hospital, or planted bombs on ships, or killed so many soldiers, or flown aeroplanes into office towers, or blown up a Bali bar, or . . . sorry, have I confused fact with fiction, again?

Anyway, the citizens hate Batman, especially once they are safe, for disturbing their sense of order, and violating their nice rules for defining their goodness - rules that are less useful for defying the evil of men

who, Batman's philosopher-butler Alfred says, "just want to watch the world burn".

And they hate him also as many Europeans hate Bush, for showing that what protects their world are not ultimately the laws they pass, but a violence that intimidates them, because they cannot match it.

They hate him as many once hated Ronald Reagan for defying a Soviet Union they feared would fight back.

They hate him as Melbourne University's hand-washing Professor Tony Coady, for one, can now afford to hate the men who dropped an atomic bomb on Hiroshima, deploring this war-ending attack as "an act of terrorism far greater than any single act of terrorism since by non-state actors".

This hatred is the burden that Batman accepts - and which The Dark Knight explains better than the comics did.

When Batman doubts the good he had done, Alfred urges strength: "Endure, Master, endure. Take it. They'll hate you for it, but that is the point of Batman. He can make the choice that no one else can make - the right choice."

Batman does not need, and cannot get, the soaring opinion polls and flattering media coverage of a hero.

He must instead be not only the citizens' saviour, but its scapegoat for its anxiety over what it took to save them.

As Commissioner Gordon says, in reluctantly branding Batman an outlaw: "We'll hunt him because he can take it. Because he's not a hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector . . . a dark knight."

Mind you, the same excuses for violence, and for defying the public's will, is used by vigilantes and tyrants. And Nolan is so careful to sugar his pill that some critics, and not only of the Left, have taken his film as an attack on Bush instead.

Take Variety.com's deputy editor, Anne Thompson, who seizes on the scene in which the Joker taunts Batman: "What would I do without you? You complete me . . . To them (the public) you're just a freak. Like me."

Concludes Thompson: "The film-making suggests the Joker has, like a Shakespearean fool on PCP, hit on a harsh truth: Batman has more in common with his killer-clown foe than with the normal people he means to protect. So should we conclude The Dark Knight argues that Bush and bin Laden are two sides of the same coin?"

Answer: are you kidding? In fact, the Joker is saying that without Batman's great good to oppose, his great evil would never be realised in its horrific glory.

It would be like Hitler being allowed to exterminate nothing more than mosquitoes. Who'd care?

What's more, Batman clearly has more in common with the people he tries to protect than does the Joker with people he tries to destroy, or the audience wouldn't be cheering him, and the next film in the series wouldn't be Batman III but The Joker II.

No, the cinema audience understands what the Gotham citizens do not - Batman's dilemma and the awesome imperatives of responsibility. And they are with him, not his critics.

So why don't Americans in particular leave the movie cheering Bush as they cheered Batman?

Because in leaving the cinema they stopped being that audience and re-entered their own real Gotham City - with a real Batman they once more feel driven to hate for all the hard things he's had to do to protect them.

They have become the citizens of Gotham they were watching just minutes before with contempt.

But Bush would understand. As Alfred says: "He's not being a hero. He's being something more."

  

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40thStreetBlack
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133. "sounds alot like the WSJ article I swiped in post 97"
In response to Reply # 132
Sat Aug-09-08 06:00 PM by 40thStreetBlack

          

which is utterly ridiculous. in fact, the previous article you posted referenced it as being ridiculous, and shoots down its general argument in the passage I highlighted above.

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gluvnast
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135. "i personally don't agree with the article, but..."
In response to Reply # 133


          

i'm only stating, it's not like nobody else sees the neocon connection...which the bush doctrine basically is

all i'm saying there IS some parts in this movie that supports neoconservatism...but the movie itself is not "pro-bush" or "anti-bush", but an unbiased POV of america after 9/11

  

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40thStreetBlack
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139. "again, point is not seeing that there is a neocon connection"
In response to Reply # 135


          

that's pretty obvious, and I already agreed with that. point is what is the movie's stance on it?


>i'm only stating, it's not like nobody else sees the neocon
>connection...which the bush doctrine basically is
>
>all i'm saying there IS some parts in this movie that supports
>neoconservatism.

and I'm saying that there isn't. it broaches the issues of what would lead there, but ultimately it's a direct criticism of it.


>..but the movie itself is not "pro-bush" or
>"anti-bush", but an unbiased POV of america after 9/11

it's pretty clearly anti-bush if you think about it, for reasons I've already stated.

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gluvnast
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149. "RE: again, point is not seeing that there is a neocon connection"
In response to Reply # 139


          

again, it's NOT based entirely on neoconservatism...just there's parts of neoconservative ideas in this movie

the coverup on dent is a neocon type of move...in where you push idealism in place of the truth.

the burning of the forest to catch a bandit is a neocon belief, and is exactly how we tackled both afghanistan and iraq

not saying, or anybody else for that matter that the ENTIRE movie is based on it, nor do i believe it's pro-bush which i repeatedly said before, but THERE IS some themes in this movie that supports a neoconservative POV...those two, as well as the sonar thing are examples of this.

  

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40thStreetBlack
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187. "you apparently haven't read a word I've written. n/m"
In response to Reply # 149
Mon Aug-11-08 02:05 PM by 40thStreetBlack

          

.

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40thStreetBlack
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124. "did you watch the movie?"
In response to Reply # 115
Sat Aug-09-08 04:39 PM by 40thStreetBlack

          

Fox was opposed to it from jump, and when he agreed to help Bats said he'd do it this once & then after that if Bats kept it he was out the door. and Bats recognized the danger from jump & had it programmed to self-destruct after it's once & only use.

>(which was the theme of the film and the Neo-con argument).

that was not the theme of the film. you are seriously reaching with this neo-con argument.


>The righteous move would be to not venture down that path at
>all

not really.


>I guess this just puts them on Obama's level for now.

oh god, you're one of those.

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gluvnast
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136. "that's correct"
In response to Reply # 90


          

  

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jigga
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47. "Nolan>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Favreau"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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82. "All the reason why its odd that Ironman >>>>>>> TDK"
In response to Reply # 47


  

          


Nolan almost dropped the ball on this one

Still a solid movie, but very amateurish storytelling
and writing in TDK and waaay too many gimmicks

I guess that's what makes Nolan go, though

Memento was one big ass gimmick

Well written though

but a huge gimmick



----------------------------


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.



"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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jigga
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91. "They're both good. I just got a lot more out of TDK"
In response to Reply # 82


  

          

Iron Man had a great performance by RDJ & some nice effects but that about it (c)other jigga

TDK trumps it in terms of cinematography, acting, score, & a lot more

>Nolan almost dropped the ball on this one

Yet it still has legs

>Still a solid movie, but very amateurish storytelling
>and writing in TDK and waaay too many gimmicks

Such as?

>I guess that's what makes Nolan go, though
>
>Memento was one big ass gimmick
>
>Well written though
>
>but a huge gimmick

Call it whatcha want (c)ATL

For me it was a very clever way to tell Lenny/Sammy's story. Put's the viewer in his shoes. It works for me time & time again.

  

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ZooTown74
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112. "^^^ What he said"
In response to Reply # 91


  

          

I mean, FUCK, I know that these "vs." posts are usually ground zero for a bunch of bullshit, but some of the counter-arguments posted in here are especially ridiculous
________________________________________________________________________
<---- 2008 Best Picture (so far). Be fucking mad.

  

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kevatlmusic
Member since Aug 07th 2008
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Thu Aug-07-08 05:49 PM

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63. "RE: Iron Man V Dark Knight"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Dark Knight hands down man. I ain't even seen Iron Man but basing it on the trailers...Dark Knights dominates

  

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will_5198
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64. "good post!"
In response to Reply # 63


          

>Dark Knight hands down man. I ain't even seen Iron Man

--------

  

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SoulHonky
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66. "PTP at its finest!"
In response to Reply # 64
Thu Aug-07-08 06:19 PM by SoulHonky

          

nm

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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Gemini_Two_One
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68. "This reply made the whole post finally worth reading."
In response to Reply # 63
Thu Aug-07-08 06:26 PM by Gemini_Two_One

  

          

!sig!

"I used to rock and roll all night and party ev-er-ry day. Then it was every other day. Now I'm lucky if I can find half an hour a week in which to get funky." - Homer Simpson

  

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DrNO
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73. "Also, since people seem to forget: Ironman is just as political as DK"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

It just doesn't beat you over the head with its politics at the expense of plot and character. It also delves more into morality and personal responsibility with greater nuance.

_
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4TztqYaemt0
http://preptimeposse.blogspot.com/

  

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Fisticuffs
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74. "TALK ABOUT IT!"
In response to Reply # 73


          

iron man isn't pretentious so it went unnoticed.

  

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gluvnast
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76. "the only thing politically related is aghanistan replacing 'nam"
In response to Reply # 73


          

just because stark has a contracting agreement with the military DOES NOT excuse it for being political...that's how the comic book AND the origin is based on

now, y'all making excuses....

  

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DrNO
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109. "What are you trying to say?"
In response to Reply # 76


  

          

_
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4TztqYaemt0
http://preptimeposse.blogspot.com/

  

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ZooTown74
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83. "Yes, I remember the "nuance" of the scene where Ironman's"
In response to Reply # 73


  

          

technology allows him to pick out the "good turbans" from the "bad turbans," then shoot accordingly. Oh so subtle, that scene was.
________________________________________________________________________
<---- 2008 Best Picture (so far). Be fucking mad.

  

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will_5198
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86. "lol"
In response to Reply # 83


          

--------

  

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DrNO
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110. "I know, they aren't as nuanced as the"
In response to Reply # 83
Fri Aug-08-08 07:12 PM by DrNO

  

          

black, Irish, middle eastern, mentally ill and Italian thugs polluting Harvey Dent's streets in Batman.

_
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4TztqYaemt0
http://preptimeposse.blogspot.com/

  

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ZooTown74
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111. "Right, because it's only accurate if all the criminals are white."
In response to Reply # 110


  

          

Get the entire fuck outta here
________________________________________________________________________
<---- 2008 Best Picture (so far). Be fucking mad.

  

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DrNO
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114. "So, you're saying that turban wearing villains are taboo?"
In response to Reply # 111
Fri Aug-08-08 08:02 PM by DrNO

  

          

Unrealistic cliches?

Just to clarify here.


If that's the case there are about 2.5 million Sudanese refugees who might disagree.


And, no, I'm not saying that all of the criminal characters needed to be white. But they are all ethnic and social stereotypes in Nolan's Batman movies. Meanwhile, with the exception of Freeman, the heroes are portrayed by the WASPiest actors alive.

_
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4TztqYaemt0
http://preptimeposse.blogspot.com/

  

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40thStreetBlack
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126. "as opposed to the ethnic and social sterotypes in Iron Man?"
In response to Reply # 114


          

>And, no, I'm not saying that all of the criminal characters
>needed to be white. But they are all ethnic and social
>stereotypes in Nolan's Batman movies.

aren't the main villains in Nolan's Batman movies white? Ducard, Scarecrow, Joker? even Two-Face (though he's more a sympathetic villian)

Meanwhile, with the
>exception of Freeman, the heroes are portrayed by the WASPiest
>actors alive.

again, this is different from Iron Man how?

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DrNO
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143. "I'm not sure there really is a difference"
In response to Reply # 126


  

          

but Zootown seems to be implying that it's insensitive or something in Ironman.

And, yes, the supervillains in Batman are white.

_
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4TztqYaemt0
http://preptimeposse.blogspot.com/

  

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ZooTown74
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153. "All I know is that you claimed that Iron Man was more "nuanced""
In response to Reply # 143
Sun Aug-10-08 04:29 AM by ZooTown74

  

          

and that example is as far from nuance as it gets

I didn't say or "imply" one word about it being insensitive or not

I simply presented a sarcasm-tinged example to counter your claim that the movie is more "nuanced" and doesn't beat you over the head with its politics like The Dark Knight allegedly does... you're the one going off on tangents about Sudanese refugees and all that other shit...
________________________________________________________________________
<---- 2008 Best Picture (so far). Be fucking mad.

  

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40thStreetBlack
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92. "you've got that backwards actually"
In response to Reply # 73


          

>It just doesn't beat you over the head with its politics at
>the expense of plot and character. It also delves more into
>morality and personal responsibility with greater nuance.


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chillinCHiEF
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75. "TDK, easily."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I'm surprised people thought Iron Man was even close.



/Stakes is high./

  

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gluvnast
Member since Nov 19th 2006
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Fri Aug-08-08 12:54 AM

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78. "incredible hulk >>>> ironman"
In response to Reply # 75


          

ironman was a good movie, but it's not even better than incredible hulk which thrusted forward into the marvel universe full speed, with better action, better plot, and stronger characters...RDJ was the only reason ironman is beloved, not the ironmonger battle, not paltrow's role, definitelty not bridges or howard's performances....

the only three things that you can give ironman props is RDJ, the CGI, and sam jackson after the credits...that's basically it...there's not TRUE memorable moments in this picture...nothing you can remember as iconic...

then again, transformers was a popular film that sold well over 300 mill...lets compaire it to that

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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79. "translation: Ironman had fewer dumbass gimmicks."
In response to Reply # 78
Fri Aug-08-08 01:39 AM by Orbit_Established

  

          

>...that's basically
>it...there's not TRUE memorable moments in this
>picture...nothing you can remember as iconic...

Right, and people with an actual attention span
don't need dumbass scenes with the superhero
kidnapping asian accountants to remember the film...
...when that is the coolest thing your protagonist does
the entire film, your film was some bullshit.

Not to mention other gimmicks like the entire Two
Face diversion, which was a huge waste of time and
done all fucked up and corny.

Ironman didn't rely on dumbshit like that.

And your argument that it was all Robert Downey
Jr doesn't hold weight, because TDK's entire appeal
weighed on Heath Ledger, even moreso than Ironman
relied on Robert Downey Jr.

Especially when you consider that Ironman's storyline
was way sleeker, with less bullshit holes and gimmicks


>then again, transformers was a popular film that sold well
>over 300 mill...lets compaire it to that

Right, let's compare TDK to that. That's proof a movie
doesn't have to be very good to sell like hotcakes.

TDK is doing half as good in the box office without
Ledger's death, which is still great(and good for them),
but still.

----------------------------


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.



"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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gluvnast
Member since Nov 19th 2006
2367 posts
Fri Aug-08-08 01:54 PM

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95. "whut gimmick you're talking about?"
In response to Reply # 79


          

TDK is untraditional in regards of superhero movies....the movie ends like a tradegy with the "hero" on the hunt and hated by everyone, the main villain, regardless of being caught, technically WON pushing his agenda of fear and chaotic ideology to the forefront, one of the major characters dies, everything gordon and batman worked for in improving crime and putting hope into gotham have been diminished...

whut gimmick are you talking about? there's no real cliche one-liners, there's twists and turns throughout the movie...the only two things you can truely say was "lame" was batman's growl & the wasted cameo of scarecrow....that's pretty much it


ironman, on the other hand, HAD GIMMICKS, but in its defense their gimmicks was rather good, like terrence howard looking at the other suit and saying, "maybe next time"...however, there's some lame qualities in this film, especially how it ended (not to include the after credit scene, which sorta makes up for the weak-as-hell ending)

i mean, the most BLATANT and sad gimmick was the BURGER KING placement for crying out loud...

it was a cartoonish type fun movie...no fault to that because it's one of the BEST...yet, how can you take a movie seriously with stark and a leiutenent colornel entertaining themselves with strippers in a jet plane with ghostplace placing in the background???? dope as fuck scene, but it reminds you that this is comic book fun...TDK FELT like a crime movie than a comic book movie...take away the costumes and the results are basically the same....

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Fri Aug-08-08 03:32 PM

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98. "TDK is for the ADHD generation who can't sit still."
In response to Reply # 95


  

          


TDK is for the ADHD generation that can't keep
still and isn't bothered by a sloppy, incoherent
storyline.

You all like things to go in unnecessary twists
and turns, because you require it to sit through
a movie

People who aren't like that can sit and focus and
don't require a dumbass SHOCK scene or some stupid,
unnecessary TWIST

>TDK is untraditional in regards of superhero movies....the
>movie ends like a tradegy with the "hero" on the hunt and
>hated by everyone, the main villain, regardless of being
>caught, technically WON pushing his agenda of fear and chaotic
>ideology to the forefront, one of the major characters dies,
>everything gordon and batman worked for in improving crime and
>putting hope into gotham have been diminished...

I saw the movie. And its not that untraditional, because
Spiderman had an element of "good guy is hated by everyone"
also.

Its really not very original at all.

And the bad guys winning at the end of part two of a
trilogy was mastered in Empire Strikes Back.

So please


>whut gimmick are you talking about? there's no real cliche
>one-liners,

No, but there are cliche speeches and cheeseball
soliloquies that almost put me to sleep, literally


>there's twists and turns throughout the
>movie...the only two things you can truely say was "lame" was
>batman's growl & the wasted cameo of scarecrow....that's
>pretty much it

No:

the girl was lame(not insignificant, as she's the
centerpiece of most of the personal conflict in the film

The entire two face character was a gimmick and was lame

The chinese accountant gimmick was lame

Lots of lame, boring, unnecessary shit

>ironman, on the other hand, HAD GIMMICKS, but in its defense
>their gimmicks was rather good, like terrence howard looking
>at the other suit and saying, "maybe next time"...however,
>there's some lame qualities in this film, especially how it
>ended (not to include the after credit scene, which sorta
>makes up for the weak-as-hell ending)

Ironman's gimmicks were good

TDK's gimmicks were lame

Ironman wins

>i mean, the most BLATANT and sad gimmick was the BURGER KING
>placement for crying out loud...

That's ad placement. That's not a cinematic gimmick.

I got no problem with people trying to make doe. I do
have a problem with bad, amateurish filmmaking.

>it was a cartoonish type fun movie...no fault to that because
>it's one of the BEST...yet, how can you take a movie seriously
>with stark and a leiutenent colornel entertaining themselves
>with strippers in a jet plane with ghostplace placing in the
>background???? dope as fuck scene, but it reminds you that
>this is comic book fun...TDK FELT like a crime movie than a
>comic book movie...take away the costumes and the results are
>basically the same....


  

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ChuckNeal
Member since Feb 03rd 2004
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Fri Aug-08-08 03:55 PM

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99. "Why can't we just like the movie because we thought it was good?"
In response to Reply # 98
Fri Aug-08-08 03:57 PM by ChuckNeal

          

>TDK is for the ADHD generation that can't keep
>still and isn't bothered by a sloppy, incoherent
>storyline.

The story was coherent to me. The two-face shit at the end was the only part that wasn't handled properly (you could argue that we didn't get enough of Bruce and Rachel to make that storyline compelling but that doesn't make an entire script incoherent). Everything besides those two things was fine to me. It just wasn't of your taste and that's cool.


>You all like things to go in unnecessary twists
>and turns, because you require it to sit through
>a movie

This is retarded. How about folks liked the movie because the acting was very good, the cinematography was excellent, they actually enjoyed the action sequences, etc. I know you may have disliked all of those things, but that's you.

>People who aren't like that can sit and focus and
>don't require a dumbass SHOCK scene or some stupid,
>unnecessary TWIST

You mean like the reveal of the villain in Ironman, or Stark deciding to let the world know he was Ironman?



>No, but there are cliche speeches and cheeseball
>soliloquies that almost put me to sleep, literally

I can agree with this. The hero speeches were kinda wack and shouldn't have been there imo. But they were about .005% of the flick, not nearly enough to ruin it for me.



>Ironman's gimmicks were good
>
>TDK's gimmicks were lame
>
>Ironman wins

This is what you call an opinion. Not a fact, but...wait for it...an opinion. No one is right or wrong. You argue like my 11 year old niece. It's amazing how your boxing convo is mature but everything else is silly. Makes me think we're all apart of a silly joke. I think I'ma stop playing.

Famousfarrah.com <--- a webseries I worked on

  

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jigga
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Fri Aug-08-08 04:18 PM

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100. "And why is that long ass speech Bridges gives to Stark gettin a pass?"
In response to Reply # 99


  

          

Yall know the one I'm talkin bout

After he uses that paralyzin doohicky on him & pulls the piece out his chest. He could've just started with that long ass boring speech & it would've had the same effect on Starks as it had on me.

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ's

  

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gluvnast
Member since Nov 19th 2006
2367 posts
Fri Aug-08-08 04:47 PM

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104. "bridges was a HORRIBLE villian"
In response to Reply # 100


          

especially when he became ironmonger

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Fri Aug-08-08 05:40 PM

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106. "But not nearly as shitty as Two Face."
In response to Reply # 104


  

          


Everything about Two-Face was horrifyingly
bad

From the "SAY MY NAME(I almost spit my goober
out at the corny bullshit)" scene to the way he
looked...just retarded

and the ambiguous death was stupid, and gimmicky

If you're going to kill him, KILL HIM

Stop being lazy with the filmmaking

The filmmakers have no balls, at all.



----------------------------


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.



"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Fri Aug-08-08 04:20 PM

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101. "If you have ADHD, that's all good, but you still have ADHD."
In response to Reply # 99


  

          


I mean, i'm glad we found a remedy that isn't the
bizarre ass drugs we prescribe for it, but it is
what it is.

>The story was coherent to me. The two-face shit at the end was
>the only part that wasn't handled properly (you could argue
>that we didn't get enough of Bruce and Rachel to make that
>storyline compelling but that doesn't make an entire script
>incoherent). Everything besides those two things was fine to
>me. It just wasn't of your taste and that's cool.

LOL.

Rachel was the centerpiece of all the PERSONAL(non joker)
conflicts.

To agree that she was done poorly is to agree that just
about everything non Joker was done poorly(which it was,
except Gordon and Alfred...those two were dope, everyone
else sucked).

>This is retarded. How about folks liked the movie because the
>acting was very good, the cinematography was excellent, they
>actually enjoyed the action sequences, etc. I know you may
>have disliked all of those things, but that's you.

Right. But the twists were clumsy and contorted.

They were there just for the sake of being there.

Again - you guys have ADHD. That's okay with you
because you need a twist to keep you awake.


>I can agree with this. The hero speeches were kinda wack and
>shouldn't have been there imo. But they were about .005% of
>the flick, not nearly enough to ruin it for me.

No, they weren't.

Gordon and Batman have no regular conversations, at all.

In fact, TDK had very little normal conversation between
people.

Almost none.

Everything was a huge-showdown-speech-about-justice-and
-identity-and-courage-oh-my-god-the-shit-was-so-fucking-
boring

I'm getting sleepy just thinking about every single
Bruce Wayne scene.

Jesus.




>This is what you call an opinion. Not a fact, but...wait for
>it...an opinion. No one is right or wrong. You argue like my
>11 year old niece. It's amazing how your boxing convo is
>mature but everything else is silly. Makes me think we're all
>apart of a silly joke. I think I'ma stop playing.

Sure its an opinion, but my opinion is right.



----------------------------


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.



"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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gluvnast
Member since Nov 19th 2006
2367 posts
Fri Aug-08-08 04:45 PM

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103. "so you enjoy your movies to be unintelligent"
In response to Reply # 98


          

>
>TDK is for the ADHD generation that can't keep
>still and isn't bothered by a sloppy, incoherent
>storyline.
>
>You all like things to go in unnecessary twists
>and turns, because you require it to sit through
>a movie
>
>People who aren't like that can sit and focus and
>don't require a dumbass SHOCK scene or some stupid,
>unnecessary TWIST
>

not speaking about others, but apparently YOU have a trouble understanding a well scripted story when one's right in front of you. i don't see anything incoherent with the story at all. it's an interesting message on whut defines heroism vs. whut is accepted as heroic. the movie is driven by the question of how can you beat someone that's purely evil? and every twist IS neccessary to drive in the fact that there's never a right or wrong decision that can be made in those types of situations. if you prefer movies that is all fun but no substance (like ironman), then i agree that TDK is not for you...way too much intellectual thinking for you to grasp it all...that's something you won't have to worry about with ironman


>
>I saw the movie. And its not that untraditional, because
>Spiderman had an element of "good guy is hated by everyone"
>also.

no, spiderman, if i recall, was LOVED by the people, only J.J. hated spidey...now the 3RD spiderman attempted to do whut the TDK achieved in doing, and we shouldn't EVEN go there when speaking on the 3rd spiderman...now the 2nd spiderman was the best, and i would put it at the 2nd spot of best of all time (never cared too much for batman begins, even though it was a great film...but disappointing towards the end)

>Its really not very original at all.
>
>And the bad guys winning at the end of part two of a
>trilogy was mastered in Empire Strikes Back.
>
>So please

nobody's comparing it to ESB, nor ESB a comic book feature, it's a science fiction fantasy epic...two completely different genres, with that said, like TDK, ESB broke traditons and became the BEST out of all of the star wars saga

>
>>whut gimmick are you talking about? there's no real cliche
>>one-liners,
>
>No, but there are cliche speeches and cheeseball
>soliloquies that almost put me to sleep, literally

aside from V for vendetta, sin city, or 300 (all great graphic novel films), whut OTHER comic book movie have so-called speeches to make it "cliche"???

the little debates bruces & alfred have, the ideological message the joker speaks about, dent's message on duality, and batman's & gordon's final monologues are whut gave this movie DEPTH over your usual comic book movie....

but then again, you're probably a fantastic four fan, or daredevil fan or something
>
>

>
>No:
>
>the girl was lame(not insignificant, as she's the
>centerpiece of most of the personal conflict in the film

yet she's still a HUGE improvement to katie holmes

>
>The entire two face character was a gimmick and was lame
>

obviously NEVER READ "a long halloween"...nor understood that DENT was actually the CENTRAL character of the movie!!! how is that even a gimmick???? the entire story arc is with harvey's rise and demise


>The chinese accountant gimmick was lame
>

how is that a "gimmick" when it drives the story along on how the mob befriended the joker in the 1st place? lao was a key important figure for the entire mob to be taken down and elevates dent's stature....without the chinese accountant, you don't HAVE a story..he's an essential piece




>
>Ironman's gimmicks were good
>
>TDK's gimmicks were lame
>
>Ironman wins
>

TDK has no gimmicks...no arguement with ironman's gimmicks being good..it's just the fact it reinforces the truth that this is merely a fun summer comic book movie, whereas TDK is nothing of the sort..it's a serious epic crime film



>That's ad placement. That's not a cinematic gimmick.
>
>I got no problem with people trying to make doe. I do
>have a problem with bad, amateurish filmmaking.
>


it'll be different if, like most GREAT filmmaking in which product placement is so nuanced that you hardly even notice it there...TDK had product placement, but they're also essential to the film...the nokia phones are a great example...whereas stark proclaiming I WANT A WHOOPER is NOT "great filmmaking"...it doesn't push the movie forward it's just product placement for the fuck of it




  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Fri Aug-08-08 05:34 PM

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105. "FYI: Only idiots think bullshit twists = intelligent"
In response to Reply # 103
Fri Aug-08-08 05:37 PM by Orbit_Established

  

          

Smart people tend to like straight forward, gimmick
free, storytelling just as much, or more, than they
do uber intricate, twisty, turny, shock filmmaking.

Hooks and twists are often around to mask storytelling
inadequacies, which explains TDK to a tee.

You're too busy focusing on the Joker and ooohing at his
clapping in the jail cell to realize that the movie you're
watching sort of sucks. I mean, those without ADHD understand
the bullshit, but everyone else is entranced(poor souls).

>not speaking about others, but apparently YOU have a trouble
>understanding a well scripted story when one's right in front
>of you. i don't see anything incoherent with the story at all.
>it's an interesting message on whut defines heroism vs. whut
>is accepted as heroic.

No, its not. Its about the Joker doing cool shit in
Gotham City.

Say TDK is cool. Don't gimme this "its deep" bullshit,
because its not deep, at all. There isn't a single
interesting or original theme in it.

>the movie is driven by the question of

Nightmare on Elm Street already explored this, in much,
much, better detail, in a more interesting context.

The original Nightmare on Elm Street was actually
a spectacular, serious, well written and acted
film, and I stand by contention that the Joker
in TDK as a lamer version of the original Freddy
Krueger.

> and every twist
>IS neccessary to drive in the fact that there's never a right
>or wrong decision that can be made in those types of
>situations. if you prefer movies that is all fun but no
>substance (like ironman), then i agree that TDK is not for
>you...way too much intellectual thinking for you to grasp it
>all...that's something you won't have to worry about with
>ironman

TDK is not intellectual at all, so please, stop.

It had nice camera shots, edgy gadgets, and Joker
mayhem.

Please.

>no, spiderman, if i recall, was LOVED by the people, only J.J.
>hated spidey...now the 3RD spiderman attempted to do whut the
>TDK achieved in doing, and we shouldn't EVEN go there when
>speaking on the 3rd spiderman...now the 2nd spiderman was the
>best, and i would put it at the 2nd spot of best of all time
>(never cared too much for batman begins, even though it was a
>great film...but disappointing towards the end)

Odd because 'Batman Begins' was faaaar deeper, far
better written than TDK was. Not even close.

>nobody's comparing it to ESB, nor ESB a comic book feature,
>it's a science fiction fantasy epic...two completely different
>genres, with that said, like TDK, ESB broke traditons and
>became the BEST out of all of the star wars saga

TDK broke traditions like a movie that came out 30 years
ago.

LOL

That's sort of a contradiction, and no, TDK didn't break any
tradition, at all.


>aside from V for vendetta, sin city, or 300 (all great graphic
>novel films), whut OTHER comic book movie have so-called
>speeches to make it "cliche"???

You nailed it. I put TDK up there with 300, which was
a horrible, silly film, btw.

Its that type of dumbass gimmicky gloss

Its cliche when there are no other genuine conversations
between characters. Only speeches and soliloquies.

That's all TDK had

Not regular conversation of any kind

Extremely lame

>the little debates bruces & alfred have, the ideological
>message the joker speaks about, dent's message on duality, and
>batman's & gordon's final monologues are whut gave this movie
>DEPTH over your usual comic book movie....

No, Einstein.

DEPTH is when a film's characters seem like REAL PEOPLE

As in they have REAL CONVERSATIONS

and do REAL THINGS

TDK had NO REAL INTERACTIONS. Everything was 1000%
contrived and fully of sappy, boring, "stand up
for justice and do the right thing" bullshit.

Really annoying, poorly written, poorly
acted, just bad and bland.


>yet she's still a HUGE improvement to katie holmes

The actress, yes. The character, no. Her character
might've been better in Batman Beings, probably
because the entire movie wasn't riding on me giving
a fuck about her.

I almost laughed in TDK when she died, because I really,
really, really, didn't give a fuck. Like, seriously.

Terribly done.

>obviously NEVER READ "a long halloween"...nor understood that
>DENT was actually the CENTRAL character of the movie!!! how is
>that even a gimmick???? the entire story arc is with harvey's
>rise and demise

Uh. No.

The Joker was the central character of the movie. The rise
of Two Face was tangential, and was terribly done, and wasted
a lot of screen time.


>TDK has no gimmicks...no arguement with ironman's gimmicks
>being good..it's just the fact it reinforces the truth that
>this is merely a fun summer comic book movie, whereas TDK is
>nothing of the sort..it's a serious epic crime film

LOL

"a serious epic crime film"

One with no regular conversation, at all?

What kind of epic crime films you been watching?

LOL

LOL

LOL

LOL



>it'll be different if, like most GREAT filmmaking in which
>product placement is so nuanced that you hardly even notice it
>there...TDK had product placement, but they're also essential
>to the film...the nokia phones are a great example...whereas
>stark proclaiming I WANT A WHOOPER is NOT "great
>filmmaking"...it doesn't push the movie forward it's just
>product placement for the fuck of it

Well, when the worst thing you can say about
Ironman is the product placement, that's more the reason
its a better film than TDK.



----------------------------


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.



"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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Gemini_Two_One
Charter member
11580 posts
Sat Aug-09-08 12:06 PM

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119. "I liked the movie and I agree with this statement"
In response to Reply # 105


  

          


>
>Say TDK is cool. Don't gimme this "its deep" bullshit,
>because its not deep, at all. There isn't a single
>interesting or original theme in it.
>

There is nothing explored in that movie that has not been explored in movies, comics, and Batman history.

!sig!

Yeah, keep the crack raps up
That shit is double plus...whatever the fuck
Everybody’s afraid to say it just sucks
To watch talented muthafuckers pretending they sell drugs
- EL-P

  

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40thStreetBlack
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27116 posts
Fri Aug-08-08 01:18 PM

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93. "wow."
In response to Reply # 78


          


___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

  

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urbgriot
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Mon Aug-11-08 02:27 PM

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191. "I agree TDK & >>>>>HULK & >>>>>>Ironman"
In response to Reply # 78
Mon Aug-11-08 02:30 PM by urbgriot

          

Ironman was good but the action was terrible and the script/storyline was predictable, unimaginative and thin..

https://twitter.com/onnextlevel

  

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ChuckNeal
Member since Feb 03rd 2004
5458 posts
Fri Aug-08-08 10:44 AM

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84. "Dark Knight"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I liked Ironman a lot. It's third on my list of top comicbook movies behind tdk and batman begins. It was fun, but the action scenes were underwhelming for me (especially for a character like Ironman who flies and shoots energy blasts). Final scene a little anti-climatic. Downey Jr. was great though. TDK was just more involving. I cared more about what was happening. But it's all subjective; I could see someone voting for Ironman.

Famousfarrah.com <--- a webseries I worked on

  

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bski
Member since Jun 09th 2002
12115 posts
Fri Aug-08-08 11:37 AM

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85. "I enjoyed TDK quite a bit"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

But I fuckin' LOVED Iron Man.

RDJ, Favreau & Co. knocked it out the park.




http://www.myspace.com/bski
http://www.myspace.com/livesociety

  

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dba_BAD
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14873 posts
Fri Aug-08-08 01:59 PM

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96. "DK over the one saturated with offensive sexist and racist"
In response to Reply # 0


          

cliches justified as authentic comicbookisms

__

fairweather

  

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El_Pistolero
Member since Dec 05th 2007
2664 posts
Fri Aug-08-08 04:41 PM

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102. "I get the racists part..."
In response to Reply # 96


  

          

but what's sexist about Iron Man.

---------------------------------------
So it goes.

  

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gluvnast
Member since Nov 19th 2006
2367 posts
Fri Aug-08-08 06:53 PM

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107. "aside from the strippers on the private jet???"
In response to Reply # 102


          

  

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will_5198
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Fri Aug-08-08 07:01 PM

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108. "that doesn't make the movie sexist, tho."
In response to Reply # 107


          

--------

  

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gluvnast
Member since Nov 19th 2006
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Fri Aug-08-08 07:50 PM

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116. "yea..in defense..stark's character SUPPOSE to be sexist"
In response to Reply # 108


          

so that's a mute point

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Fri Aug-08-08 08:38 PM

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117. "Tony Starks >>>> Bruce Wayne"
In response to Reply # 116


  

          


Way more charm and depth.

Could be because RDJ is 3000X better an actor
than Christian Bale(who is really not that good, y'all),
but either way, Bruce Wayne's scenes basically put you
to sleep in TDK. RDJ was killin shit as Tony Starks


----------------------------


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.



"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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gluvnast
Member since Nov 19th 2006
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Sat Aug-09-08 11:21 AM

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118. "now you're stating the obvious"
In response to Reply # 117


          

still doesn't mean TDK <<< ironman

RDJ is a better actor than bale, that's not even a debate...especially the only reason ironman was a good movie was because of RDJ's performance

but the movie as a whole isn't even touching TDK for a grand scale of reasons

more in depth and intricate storyline
better supporting actors
way better cinematography
WAY better score
and TDK kept you both in suspense and entertained thruout the movie whereas ironman just merely kept you entertained, no fault to the movie, but TDK gave you more of an experience...and there's so much within that movie that you may of not caught the 1st go around that you have to watch it again...like the explaination on how dent killed 5 people when we only seen 2

a movie like that makes you pay attention to detail, whereas ironman is mindless fun, entertainment escapism...not a fault, but one of the reasons it's not superior to TDK

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Sat Aug-09-08 12:19 PM

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120. "Yup. Its obvious that Ironman >>>> TDK"
In response to Reply # 118


  

          


>more in depth and intricate storyline

You mean, TDK had a more convulted and confused
storyline

>better supporting actors

No, Ledger was the main actor, and everyone
else except Gordon was insignificant or bad.

Everyone in Ironman was at least solid.

>way better cinematography

Dunno about that. Ironman's was perfectly
appropriate

>WAY better score

Seriously, who gives a shit

>and TDK kept you both in suspense and entertained thruout the
>movie whereas ironman just merely kept you entertained, no
>fault to the movie, but TDK gave you more of an
>experience...

Sure, TDK gave you a confused, convoluted, experience.

>and there's so much within that movie that you
>may of not caught the 1st go around that you have to watch it
>again...like the explaination on how dent killed 5 people when
>we only seen 2

That's called lazy, sloppy filmmaking.

>a movie like that makes you pay attention to detail, whereas
>ironman is mindless fun, entertainment escapism...not a fault,
>but one of the reasons it's not superior to TDK

No, TDK needs to be watched 3 times specifically because
it was poorly made: films should be easily understood
with ONE viewing. If I need multiple viewings to understand
the BASICS, than the filmmaker failed. Not to mention all the
other details you pick up in TDK are really not significant
and are rather underwhelming. Like seriously, explaining
how Dent killed 5 people doesn't fix the fact that Two
Face was a sucky character, and that his entrance was
Spiderman 3 caliber cheesy.


----------------------------


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.



"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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40thStreetBlack
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127. "NOPE! getting ppl coming back for multiple viewings = doing them 'bers!"
In response to Reply # 120


          

>No, TDK needs to be watched 3 times specifically because
>it was poorly made: films should be easily understood
>with ONE viewing. If I need multiple viewings to understand
>the BASICS, than the filmmaker failed.

them 'bers ain't failed.

Nolan won.

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Sun Aug-10-08 08:20 AM

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157. "Same thing happened with 'Transformers'"
In response to Reply # 127


  

          


And if Transformers 2 has a dead actor in it, it will do
numbers approaching TDK.

And Transformers was a grade C film

I know niggas who seent it 8 and 9 times(I just know
em, I don't hang with no niggas like that tho)

>Nolan won.

Good for Nolan. Never mad at the next man making bread.

He still made a shitty movie



----------------------------


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.



"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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gluvnast
Member since Nov 19th 2006
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Sun Aug-10-08 12:22 PM

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172. "LOL @ bernie mac (RIP) pushing numbers for transformers 2"
In response to Reply # 157


          

>
>And if Transformers 2 has a dead actor in it, it will do
>numbers approaching TDK.
>

ledger's impact is undeniable, of course, but NOBODY ever speculateed the historic run this movie is currently doing...and it's lame and actually unfair to suggest it's ONLY because of ledger's death that's the cause of this...IMO, oldman had the BEST performance out of the bunch, some people feel that eckhart's performance is noteworthy for discussion...alot of people are praising its score and the cinematography, alot of people praise nolan's realist direction and post 9/11 mood...and alot of people just are praising heath's performance regardless of being dead or alive...it's more than just because "he's dead"

>And Transformers was a grade C film

TDK been graded A by critics & viewers alike...go to rottentomatoes or yahoo! movies.....try again


>I know niggas who seent it 8 and 9 times(I just know
>em, I don't hang with no niggas like that tho)

LMAOOOO....riiiight

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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175. "LOL. NOBODY expected Titanic's success either."
In response to Reply # 172


  

          


>ledger's impact is undeniable, of course, but NOBODY ever
>speculateed the historic run this movie is currently
>doing...and it's lame and actually unfair to suggest it's ONLY

And Titanic's run >>>>>>>>>>>> TDK's run

I mean, this can be easily solved with you just
admitting that box office success is a poor proxy
for film quality

The minute you concede that, we can have a real
discussion, because right now you're wrong


>TDK been graded A by critics & viewers alike...go to
>rottentomatoes or yahoo! movies.....try again

The Latest Indiana Jones is a 76% on
rotten tomatoes, and it was hot flaming garbage.

Rotten tomatoes been lost respect


----------------------------


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.



"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
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Tue Aug-12-08 05:26 PM

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197. "RE: Tony Starks &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; Bruce Wayne"
In response to Reply # 117
Tue Aug-12-08 05:27 PM by kayru99

          

welll....yeah, cuz that's what the characters are. Starks is a drunk billionaire who likes fuckin.

Bruce Wayne would prolly rather punch a mufucka for snatching a purse instead of gettin some ass

Its the nature of the characters

  

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DrNO
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113. "Oh yeah, from the first 5 minutes!"
In response to Reply # 107
Fri Aug-08-08 07:42 PM by DrNO

  

          

I loved how the character did not change at all over the following 2 hours!

It is racist for not ignoring the fact that there are psychotic, abusive, opportunistic, genocidal warlords in lesser developed parts of the world that deserve some ass kicking.

_
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4TztqYaemt0
http://preptimeposse.blogspot.com/

  

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40thStreetBlack
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128. "and *you're* criticizing TDK for its supposed neocon stance?"
In response to Reply # 113


          

>It is racist for not ignoring the fact that there are
>psychotic, abusive, opportunistic, genocidal warlords in
>lesser developed parts of the world that deserve some ass
>kicking.

wow.

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

  

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jane eyre
Member since Jan 16th 2007
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Sat Aug-09-08 03:09 PM

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121. "iron man"
In response to Reply # 0


          

i thought the dark knight was so-so.

the hero we deserve vs. the hero we need aspect of it bugged me. the questions that the movie raised about good and bad were interesting but gosh, i decided that the movie was significantly flawed when batman used surveillance to find the joker. what kind of hero would do that?

iron man has heart.

  

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gluvnast
Member since Nov 19th 2006
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Sat Aug-09-08 04:11 PM

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122. "that's one of the reasons i love the movie"
In response to Reply # 121


          

>i thought the dark knight was so-so.
>
>the hero we deserve vs. the hero we need aspect of it bugged
>me. the questions that the movie raised about good and bad
>were interesting but gosh, i decided that the movie was
>significantly flawed when batman used surveillance to find the
>joker. what kind of hero would do that?
>
>iron man has heart.
>

BECAUSE of the immoral decisions that batman, as well as gordon, had to make. it's unlike your typical superhero movie and makes you question whut exactly defines "heroic".

your disgust with the usage of sonar is reflected to lucious fox disgust to the point he was WILLING TO QUIT because he really wanted no part of it.

that example as well as many throughout the movie is whut made this movie dope to me, because being a hero vs. whut a perception of heroism is walking that thin line. another example is with rachel getting upset with bruce because bruce allowed dent to take the fall that he's batman...and she questioned the very samething that you have questioned.

in fact, the BEST part of the movie for me was gordon's final monologue speaks on this nature and explains why "they have to chase him"...

like i said, i respect YOUR reasons, because at least it's reasonable...this movie is atypical of other comic book movies, but like i said, the reasons why you disliked the movie is the very reason i loved it...


with ironman, i'd still can't gravitate his transformation to someone suddenly having a conscious, nor was i expected i should...it was a fun movie without any emotional characterization. even with the hulk film, i can sympathsize with bruce banner, and moreso when he's the hulk, because he's a misunderstood character

TDK, though, is an emotional rollarcoaster...and it makes you understand with whut bruce was saying when he said, "i understand whut type of person i can to become to defeat guys like him"...

it's like how the godfather part II had ended, with michael trying to do EVERYTHING that he felt was RIGHT in protecting his family, and technically "won" the fight, but reflecting on how much he had lost from the war....similar to TDK, everything batman and gordon was trying to do to save the people of gotham, and look at whut they habve done and lost along the way....batman even broke his only "rule" by the end of the movie, by thrusting dent out the window and, thus, killing him (even though i personally think dent is still alive, but that's another debate)

there's so much in that movie you can talk about...from the political metaphors within this movie to the morality of humanity and heroism...

  

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jane eyre
Member since Jan 16th 2007
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Sat Aug-09-08 07:00 PM

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142. "RE: that's one of the reasons i love the movie"
In response to Reply # 122


          


>BECAUSE of the immoral decisions that batman, as well as
>gordon, had to make. it's unlike your typical superhero movie
>and makes you question whut exactly defines "heroic".

sometimes part of being a hero means not looking or acting like one. sometimes tricksters/mischievous types can be heroes. that kinda thing.

it's not the the exploration of what heroism is that bothered me-- i guess it's how the questions were resolved (or moved towards resolution)...and on what grounds.

also. it kind of annoyed me that there wasn't a stronger development that answered the joker's assertion that he and batman were the same.

>
>your disgust with the usage of sonar is reflected to lucious
>fox disgust to the point he was WILLING TO QUIT because he
>really wanted no part of it.

not disgusted enough to act. he was willing to quit, but didn't. i thought that was wishy-washy.

i would have liked a movie where morgan freeman turned around and lectured batman about the power of choice and the importance of community-- and what that means for people who have been given power. for starters, in theory, people in power have to observe the laws of the community. he could've thrown in a side comment about the nature of "madmen" (maybe making the point that they don't observe laws of community and society).

there's also a really unsatisfactory exploration about technology and ethics in that scene.


>
>that example as well as many throughout the movie is whut made
>this movie dope to me, because being a hero vs. whut a
>perception of heroism is walking that thin line. another
>example is with rachel getting upset with bruce because bruce
>allowed dent to take the fall that he's batman...and she
>questioned the very samething that you have questioned.

being misunderstood can come with the hero schtick. i was ok with that scene.

>with ironman, i'd still can't gravitate his transformation to
>someone suddenly having a conscious, nor was i expected i
>should...it was a fun movie without any emotional
>characterization. even with the hulk film, i can sympathsize
>with bruce banner, and moreso when he's the hulk, because he's
>a misunderstood character

that was kind of hard for me to buy, too.
the heart metaphor worked for me, though.

  

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gluvnast
Member since Nov 19th 2006
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Sat Aug-09-08 10:28 PM

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145. "RE: that's one of the reasons i love the movie"
In response to Reply # 142


          


>
>sometimes part of being a hero means not looking or acting
>like one. sometimes tricksters/mischievous types can be
>heroes. that kinda thing.


i maybe have this confused, but are you saying that's why you DON'T like this movie? or are you just stating that defines a hero, because if it's the latter, then the whole point as to why he's called the dark knight pretty much based on the that fact he's not the hero people WANT, but he's the hero that they NEED. gordon's final monologue basically was echoing whut alfred consoled to bruce right after rachel's death, just before he was about to give him that letter, but changed his mind (which foreshadowed another aspect to the finale)

>
>it's not the the exploration of what heroism is that bothered
>me-- i guess it's how the questions were resolved (or moved
>towards resolution)...and on what grounds.
>

like i said, i can't argue on the moral or immoral actions of batman & gordon, but it's one of those reasons why i enjoy this movie so much, because they were pretty much forced into making a decision in where EITHER WAY it's a difficult choice....

which reminds me about how interesting the two-face character is, albeit brief and as long as the movie already is, i hunger for more of this character....two-face broke the matter of "choice" down to the bare essentials and that's by flipping the coin. and i alot of way, that's basically whut batman or gordon and even the joker was doing...making a coin flip. the ferry situation was a PERFECT example of batman making a choice of trusting the people vs. the joker faith that the people would fold and do whut he predicted they would do. the truth of the matter is both of them were technically RIGHT and wrong at the sametime, because the people VOTED in favor of the joker, but noone had the heart to do it themselves.

basically there's NO simple answers, and batman made a BOLD, immoral decision to use the sonar-telecommunication system to the dismay of fox (which should of confort you, at least, that one of the very things that disturbed you they made it a POINT that this was an immoral act), but in a situation in which the entire city is in danger and because of the fact throughout the ENTIRE movie batman always been one step too short and the joker one step ahead...he knew he HAD to overstep his boundries...regardless of how unethical the decision maybe

>also. it kind of annoyed me that there wasn't a stronger
>development that answered the joker's assertion that he and
>batman were the same.
>

i doubt that...i think they should their yin to the yang connection very strongly. the truth is that batman was in denial and probably still was in denial by the end of the movie, however he eventually cosigned to the joker's belief on how mankind cannot be trusted, because had batman had REAL faith towards the people of gotham, then he would of allowed gordonto tell the truth about dent, instead of unknowingly siding with the joker on how much of a chaotic tragedy it could be if they ever FOUND out about dent. i think they handled this very well, because the more interested the joker was on batman, the more he doesn't want to kill him, doesn't want anybody to expose his identity, and the more he pushes his anarchist debate with him...that was basically whut the ferry incident was about...a theological debate with physical danger involved to make a point


>
>not disgusted enough to act. he was willing to quit, but
>didn't. i thought that was wishy-washy.
>
>i would have liked a movie where morgan freeman turned around
>and lectured batman about the power of choice and the
>importance of community-- and what that means for people who
>have been given power. for starters, in theory, people in
>power have to observe the laws of the community. he could've
>thrown in a side comment about the nature of "madmen" (maybe
>making the point that they don't observe laws of community and
>society).
>
>there's also a really unsatisfactory exploration about
>technology and ethics in that scene.
>
>

i understand where you are geting at because it's SO closely related to the PATRIOT ACT and the recent FISA bill that has pass. i can even agree that's one of the most controversial scenes in the movie, but at the sametime, even OBAMA pretty much done the samething for voting on the FISA because, not because he wholeheartedly SUPPORTS it, but because he believes that our national security STILL our top priority and there are things within the bill that helps secure our national security....the movie is heavily based on real life examples in a post 9/11 world that we live in....there's never a "right" or "wrong" choice.

the one thing that you need to acknowledge is the fact that batman, unlike our president's administration, did not ABUSE this illegal power that he had, and kept his promise of destroying this system once the joker shit got resolved...


like i said, i respect your opinion, at least you had a reasonable objection...

  

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40thStreetBlack
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Sat Aug-09-08 05:08 PM

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129. "a smart one?"
In response to Reply # 121


          

>significantly flawed when batman used surveillance to find the
>joker. what kind of hero would do that?

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

  

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Gemini_Two_One
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Sat Aug-09-08 06:22 PM

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138. "LOL"
In response to Reply # 129


  

          

How dare he!



!sig!

Yeah, keep the crack raps up
That shit is double plus...whatever the fuck
Everybody’s afraid to say it just sucks
To watch talented muthafuckers pretending they sell drugs
- EL-P

  

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40thStreetBlack
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Sat Aug-09-08 06:33 PM

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140. "I'm saying, Supes can float in orbit & listen in on every convo on earth"
In response to Reply # 138


          

but Bats gets singled out for crossing the line?

FOH

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

  

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Gemini_Two_One
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Sat Aug-09-08 06:35 PM

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141. "While we are at, what type of hero drives a car?"
In response to Reply # 140


  

          


!sig!

Yeah, keep the crack raps up
That shit is double plus...whatever the fuck
Everybody’s afraid to say it just sucks
To watch talented muthafuckers pretending they sell drugs
- EL-P

  

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gluvnast
Member since Nov 19th 2006
2367 posts
Sat Aug-09-08 10:41 PM

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147. "good point, LOL"
In response to Reply # 140


          

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
25919 posts
Sat Aug-09-08 10:43 PM

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148. "People were too mad at the movie being so shitty to notice"
In response to Reply # 140


          

but yeah that is a good point.

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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Tiger Woods
Member since Feb 15th 2004
18387 posts
Sat Aug-09-08 08:14 PM

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144. "cmon, Stark better. but really...."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


Nolan seems intent on purposely making a grand epic kind of film. Trouble is, in doing so, the film comes off as pretentious without ever actually taking the audience captive. With the exception of Ledger and maybe Michael Caine, it simply lacks a pulse, it lacks a heart. There's no personal attachment for the viewer to the protagonist, or to Dent, or to Rachel. You should want to pull for the good guy to beat this psycho, you should feel crushed when Harvey crumbles, you should feel for Bruce immensely when Rachel gets offed. Instead, these characters have no heart. As a result, the viewer is fed just enough to remain patient until the Joker comes back.

Harvey Dent is supposed to be the people's champ, except you never see him at any sort of rally, or really getting his hands dirty. Nolan just kind of says, "ok, here's the good guy DA, you're supposed to root for him."

For one, Rachel was miscast. Katie Holmes was perfect, light and airy and never seeming out of pocket. Gylenhaal is too good for this bubblegum part. On top of it, does it ever really seem that she's enamored with Eckhart OR Bale? No, instead you're just supposed to buy into it.

and eventually people will come to realize that the Batman character means nothing to the movie, and neither does Bruce Wayne. When Rachel dies he sulks for a second but he never sheds a tear or really considers tapping out to the point that the viewer's emotions are rattled. again, he says he's considering retiring, but there's never a point where he is confronted with the choice to the point that it really seems feasible. it's a flat character that never seems to go up or down.

and that's just with those main characters.

real talk:

- as visually appealing as it was you could have clipped the trip to asia. completely.

- the two-face character should have been left with the question mark of whether he was dead or alive after Joker blew up the hospital. instead the movie shifts to making him an integral part of the movie without any really substantial buildup to the character. oh they called you two face back in the day? ah, alright then that makes sense that you only have skin on half your head. nah fam.

- the fighting in Batman Begins was violent and fast and choreographed
at a breakneck speed. it felt like you were a fly on the wall watching Bats beat the piss out of these guys, like the idea was that he was so advanced of a fighter compared to these low level criminals that they stood no chance of keeping up, and in turn neither did you. now he has trouble with every kind of criminal and the pace is slowed down and clunky. and the dogs?

But Favreau and the writers got it right man. In simply trying to make an entertaining film, he made something great and special. The little things add up to making that movie so strong. The relationship with the guy in the cave helps explain why Tony is so adamant about dropping the weapons division and saving the world when he gets home. The stuff with Terrence Howard is fantastic, not even because of Howard or Downey, but because of the relationship between the characters. Rhodes has to babysit him at the casino and wait for him at the charter plan, so by the time he comes to rescue him out of the desert there really is an unusual sigh of relief that overcomes that audience. and the stuff with Pepper Potts is even better, she gets her own scene with the taking out the trash bit and when she asks Tony what his social security number is. That stuff shows that she's a real person who is bright AND opinionated, so when Tony comes home from the middle east with the bullet holes and she's frightened, the idea of Iron Man playing world policeman really does seem dangerous. simply put, the movie has heart man, a lot of it and it takes it a long way. even without the iron man suit and the fights it's engaging.

I had a great professor who loved to say "if you have to EXPLAIN your point then you didn't make your point well enough" well I guess that applies to Nolan's Dark Knight. It's a tough of explaining, explaining the role Harvey plays in Gotham, explaining the love triangle, while putting none of it on display. It's a four star movie, but when its stood up to Iron Man, a surprising five out of five, its flaws really stand out.

  

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gluvnast
Member since Nov 19th 2006
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Sat Aug-09-08 10:39 PM

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146. "i disagree, but i like your post none the less"
In response to Reply # 144


          

as well as the majority of the critics and the general public as well


like i said, ironman's great...but it's no dark knight

and people can say, it was overhyped and it's because of ledger's death and so forth, but NOBODY predicted that this movie would be THIS successful, especially at this quick pace as well

it's still on the verge to be the number one movie for the 4th weekend in a row and by next week will surpass star wars for the number two spot..i personally never recalled a movie that surpassed the extreme hype build up...spidey 3 didn't that's for sure

if you have reasonable reasons of liking ironman more than TDK, then that's cool with me, but you're part of the minority vs. the vast majority, critically and publically...


  

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will_5198
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Sat Aug-09-08 11:03 PM

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151. "oh god, just give it a fucking rest..."
In response to Reply # 146


          

>but you're part of the minority
>vs. the vast majority, critically and publically...

--------

  

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Gemini_Two_One
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Sun Aug-10-08 09:50 AM

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159. "On behalf of Batman fans everywhere I want to aplogize for him"
In response to Reply # 151
Sun Aug-10-08 10:09 AM by Gemini_Two_One

  

          

Most of us are level headed and can see this movie for what it it.


!sig!

Yeah, keep the crack raps up
That shit is double plus...whatever the fuck
Everybody’s afraid to say it just sucks
To watch talented muthafuckers pretending they sell drugs
- EL-P

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
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Sat Aug-09-08 11:58 PM

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152. "RE: i disagree, but i like your post none the less"
In response to Reply # 146


  

          

>
>if you have reasonable reasons of liking ironman more than
>TDK, then that's cool with me, but you're part of the minority
>vs. the vast majority, critically and publically...
>
>
>

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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Gemini_Two_One
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Sun Aug-10-08 09:55 AM

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160. "LOL at you still saying TDK will surpass Star Wars"
In response to Reply # 146


  

          

Despite the fact that Star Wars has sold 3 times as many tickets....oh, I forgot you don't take adjusted lists seriously (but you brag about TDK's IMDB ranking). I bet ten years from now when the Animal Man movie overtakes TDK with tickets costings $30 you will be the first person talking about the adjusted gross and ticket sales list.




!sig!

Yeah, keep the crack raps up
That shit is double plus...whatever the fuck
Everybody’s afraid to say it just sucks
To watch talented muthafuckers pretending they sell drugs
- EL-P

  

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gluvnast
Member since Nov 19th 2006
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Sun Aug-10-08 11:28 AM

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168. "if that's the arguement you're making...."
In response to Reply # 160


          

then GONE WITH THE WIND will forever be the BIGGEST movie ever

star wars & TDK are from two completely different eras in regarding of filmmaking & movie marketing....also, star wars was RERELEASED over a decade ago which help it push this movie to the #2 spot in the 1st place!

we have long passed the those days in where movies can stay in theaters for ever, we're in the DVD/blue ray era in which affects how long movie CAN stay in theaters...along with many other tangibles such as downloading, for instance...

so the inflation arguement is sorta mute to me...same as the ticket sale arguement, when you have one movie that during its original release STAYED in theaters forever, and was RERELEASED for another 4 or 5 months a decade ago vs. another month that isn't EVEN finished its 1st MONTH!!

star wars been in theaters, combined, maybe between 9 months to a year whereas TDK haven't even finished its 1st month...so trying to make this arguement about the ticket inflation or ticket sales is silly!

the TRUTH of the matter is that star wars is at 460 MILLION and TDK is on the verge of surpassing that by next week...NO OTHER except for titanic have surpassed that number...fuck this talk about inflation gross and ect., if you really want to go there, then GONE WITH THE WIND is G.O.A.T.

but we all know all those movies came from entirely different eras and shouldn't be counted as equals...that's why people go off the domestic gross of today over the adjusted gross.

  

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Voodoochilde
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Sun Aug-10-08 07:27 AM

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155. "RE: cmon, Stark better. but really...."
In response to Reply # 144
Sun Aug-10-08 07:41 AM by Voodoochilde

          

>
>Nolan seems intent on purposely making a grand epic kind of
>film. Trouble is, in doing so, the film comes off as
>pretentious without ever actually taking the audience captive.
>With the exception of Ledger and maybe Michael Caine, it
>simply lacks a pulse, it lacks a heart. There's no personal
>attachment for the viewer to the protagonist, or to Dent, or
>to Rachel. You should want to pull for the good guy to beat
>this psycho, you should feel crushed when Harvey crumbles, you
>should feel for Bruce immensely when Rachel gets offed.
>Instead, these characters have no heart. As a result, the
>viewer is fed just enough to remain patient until the Joker
>comes back.
>
>Harvey Dent is supposed to be the people's champ, except you
>never see him at any sort of rally, or really getting his
>hands dirty. Nolan just kind of says, "ok, here's the good guy
>DA, you're supposed to root for him."
>
>For one, Rachel was miscast. Katie Holmes was perfect, light
>and airy and never seeming out of pocket. Gylenhaal is too
>good for this bubblegum part. On top of it, does it ever
>really seem that she's enamored with Eckhart OR Bale? No,
>instead you're just supposed to buy into it.
>
>and eventually people will come to realize that the Batman
>character means nothing to the movie, and neither does Bruce
>Wayne. When Rachel dies he sulks for a second but he never
>sheds a tear or really considers tapping out to the point that
>the viewer's emotions are rattled. again, he says he's
>considering retiring, but there's never a point where he is
>confronted with the choice to the point that it really seems
>feasible. it's a flat character that never seems to go up or
>down.
>
>and that's just with those main characters.
>
>real talk:
>
>- as visually appealing as it was you could have clipped the
>trip to asia. completely.
>
>- the two-face character should have been left with the
>question mark of whether he was dead or alive after Joker blew
>up the hospital. instead the movie shifts to making him an
>integral part of the movie without any really substantial
>buildup to the character. oh they called you two face back in
>the day? ah, alright then that makes sense that you only have
>skin on half your head. nah fam.
>
>- the fighting in Batman Begins was violent and fast and
>choreographed
>at a breakneck speed. it felt like you were a fly on the wall
>watching Bats beat the piss out of these guys, like the idea
>was that he was so advanced of a fighter compared to these low
>level criminals that they stood no chance of keeping up, and
>in turn neither did you. now he has trouble with every kind of
>criminal and the pace is slowed down and clunky. and the dogs?
>
>
>But Favreau and the writers got it right man. In simply trying
>to make an entertaining film, he made something great and
>special. The little things add up to making that movie so
>strong. The relationship with the guy in the cave helps
>explain why Tony is so adamant about dropping the weapons
>division and saving the world when he gets home. The stuff
>with Terrence Howard is fantastic, not even because of Howard
>or Downey, but because of the relationship between the
>characters. Rhodes has to babysit him at the casino and wait
>for him at the charter plan, so by the time he comes to rescue
>him out of the desert there really is an unusual sigh of
>relief that overcomes that audience. and the stuff with Pepper
>Potts is even better, she gets her own scene with the taking
>out the trash bit and when she asks Tony what his social
>security number is. That stuff shows that she's a real person
>who is bright AND opinionated, so when Tony comes home from
>the middle east with the bullet holes and she's frightened,
>the idea of Iron Man playing world policeman really does seem
>dangerous. simply put, the movie has heart man, a lot of it
>and it takes it a long way. even without the iron man suit and
>the fights it's engaging.
>
>I had a great professor who loved to say "if you have to
>EXPLAIN your point then you didn't make your point well
>enough" well I guess that applies to Nolan's Dark Knight. It's
>a tough of explaining, explaining the role Harvey plays in
>Gotham, explaining the love triangle, while putting none of it
>on display. It's a four star movie, but when its stood up to
>Iron Man, a surprising five out of five, its flaws really
>stand out.
>
>

^
^
^
That post is so dead on perfect i wish i'd seen it before i posted down further below in the thread. I would have just cosigned yours and been done with it.
(other than your skins avatar your post hits the nail on the head ...

i had pretty much the exact conversations with my brother and others who said they liked the DK better and were shocked when i said that, while elements of DK were awesome, i still liked Iron Man better...amoung other things, i CARED about most or all of the characters in 'Iron Man' and how they related to each other.

In the DK For the most part i generally didn't care about most of em at all (except for Comish Gordon, and Lucious Fox & Alfred) ...

Favereau and company simply NAILED it in Iron Man. They gave me a perfect balance of character, story, realistic fantasy, action, humor, surprise, tension and yes even some social relevance too.

oh yeah...that did it... now i REALLY wanna see Iron Man again
(i think that would make it viewing #5 for me)


�
have you listened to
her stuff?
v

http://www.meshell.com/site/
https://www.facebook.com/officialmeshell?fref=ts
http://www.freemyheart.com


RIP David Williams:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Williams_(guitarist)

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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156. "^^^Molten Lava"
In response to Reply # 144


  

          


Goddamn

  

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Voodoochilde
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154. "look..."
In response to Reply # 0
Sun Aug-10-08 07:31 AM by Voodoochilde

          

well honestly, they ARE very different films obviously. Very different types of films with different approaches etc...so to try to compare '1 to 1' maybe isn't too fair, but hey they ARE both Comic Superhero films so with that in mind....

IRON MAN wins hands down for me...

look i loved em both, and 'The Dark Night' IS a good flick, not sayin it's not. (though i must say I think I actually liked 'Batman Begins' better that 'Dark Night'. But i'll need to rewatch BB just to make sure i'm remembering correctly)

but for me, with 'Iron Man' & 'Dark Knight' it really came down to one simple question...

'am i DYING to go back into the theater and see it again?'

for me, for the 'Dark Night', my answer was 'ehh. not really'.

when it came to 'Iron Man' i couldn't WAIT to get back into the Theater to see that again (and i did, i think i saw it 3 or 4 times on the big screen before it left)

they both did have EQUALLY impressive performances by the star character...Downey's 'Stark' was as perfectly executed as Heaths 'Joker' (i hope we're all in agreement that 'The joker' was the real star character of DK right') so on THAT element they are even if you ask me...

i suppose could go down and compare a list of each thing that impressed me differently between each film, but i think someone already did that up pretty effectively further in the thread (and i think they came out on Iron Man's side too).

But obviously we know there's no right or wrong answer.
And it's just personal preference.
And they are very different types of films.

But for me, in the end when i weigh it ALL out...fact is...
...simply put, i enjoyed the entire Iron Man experience more than i enjoyed the entire Dark Night experience, and I ABSOLUTELY wanted to re-live, re discover that Iron Man experience over and over again.

another telling thing....I have never Never NEVER been the type to do anything like 'get up at the end of a movie and yell and high-five complete strangers because a film experience was so satisfying'...but i'll be damned if i didn't do that in Iron Man...yes i was one of those folks after their first viewing of Iron Man who so enjoyed the entire ride that we all erupted at the end with seemingly unanimous exhilaration and .moviegoing satisfaction...that doesn't happen that often (hardly ever for me)...but Iron Man did it...

and damn...now i wanna see it AGAIN. So when is that DVD coming out?

�
have you listened to
her stuff?
v

http://www.meshell.com/site/
https://www.facebook.com/officialmeshell?fref=ts
http://www.freemyheart.com


RIP David Williams:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Williams_(guitarist)

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Sun Aug-10-08 08:27 AM

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158. "One thing that NO ONE CAN DENY ABOUT THIS POST:"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


The Pro Ironman arguments are on average
waaaaaay more thought out and intelligent than the
Pro TDK arguments.

Sort of my point

I think the TDK's popularity is a proxy for
ADHD prevalence in America, and on these
boards.

It's selling like hotcakes, just like a new ADHD
drug would

People have no attention span, at all

I mean, how anyone can call TDK "nuanced"
is beyond me

Haha

You got fanboys in here calling it an
"epic crime tale"

Haha

I mean, I'll take that it was cool, edgy fun

But "epic?"

Haha

FOH


----------------------------


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.



"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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jigga
Charter member
31583 posts
Sun Aug-10-08 10:36 AM

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161. "WRONG! The 1 thing no one can deny is dem 'bers."
In response to Reply # 158


  

          

Just like that sign on the truck in TDK that Heath was spittin fire outta

(S)laughter is the best medicine

Iron Man is gettin killed by TDK in this poll & the box office

Bat fans is laughin at your madness

But now you wanna cop pleas & think you didn't just catch another L because of the prep time arguments?

Cmon

The only reason why you think the arguments for Iron Man are more thought out is because yall are diggin deep for reasons to prove it was better. When a lot of the time the arguments you make for shttin on TDK can be used for shittin on Iron Man as well

Examples: The hero speeches in TDK were bad.

Well, so were the speeches by Bridges

Example #2: The action in TDK sucked

Well, I've seen many cats complain about the final battle in Iron Man & personally I prefer & respect the lack of CGI action in TDK compared to a lot of the CGI action in Iron Man which had it on some cartoon lookin Spidey shit 1/2 the time.

Just face the FACTS that you cant deny the 'bers. You can say anything you want to strengthen your OPINION. But like Stephen A say, at the end of the day, unless there's some miraculous comeback, TDK won.

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Sun Aug-10-08 11:03 AM

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162. "LMMFAO!!!!^^^EXHIBIT A^^^^HOLY SHIT"
In response to Reply # 161


  

          

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA

How you deliver on the exact point I was
trying to make?? I mean, goddamn

I make a post talking about how thoughtless
and retarded TDK fanboys are on average, and this
dumb nigga replies:

"Its winning at the box office and in this
poll!!"

Haha

What a dumb ass nigga. Why do dumb niggas like
you act like YOU ARE PERSONALLY MAKING MONEY
FROM TDK'S SUCCESS??? Nigga you still broke,
ugly, and have no social life, seriously. Hate
to say it, but its true.

More power to TDK's box office success

Smart niggas like me give love to the film
for that, but that got nothing to do with
y'all bein ADHD and ugly

Same way I never knocked Titanic's hustle
even though it was a bad film. I'm happy
it made its bread. Dicap seemed like a decent
dude, so I'd never knock that hustle

And Billy Zane was in Van Peep's Posse,
nigga. I stay rootin for the cast of that.

>Iron Man is gettin killed by TDK in this poll & the box
>office

Haha Goddamn you a dumb nigga

Exactly what I mean. TDK fanboys run for the box
office and rotten tomatoes

Motherfuckin' TITANIC HAS AN OSCAR FOR BEST PICTURE

HAHA

and it was HOT, LONG, GARBAGE

Again: Its all good, and I'm not ever going to
knock the hustle, but I wish a nigga would tell
me it was the best film of 1997

Or one of the top 100 films ever

Hell, top 500 even

>Bat fans is laughin at your madness

LOL This is what I mean

Haha

Bat Fans ain't made a DIME from TDK's success
typical dumb nigga
act like YOU makin paper from it


>The only reason why you think the arguments for Iron Man are
>more thought out is because yall are diggin deep for reasons
>to prove it was better. When a lot of the time the arguments
>you make for shttin on TDK can be used for shittin on Iron Man
>as well

That's not true

People who like Ironman actually saw the movie and liked
it

Mad people who saw TDK liked it before they entered the
theatre because of the dead guy

Hate to say it, but its true

Its like a superhero Titanic

Titanic capitalized off of a lonely, love starved
population, and passed off a very average to shitty
film that became a mega success...it was just
what the doctor ordered...sucked as a film, but
was mad successful


>Just face the FACTS that you cant deny the 'bers. You can say
>anything you want to strengthen your OPINION. But like Stephen
>A say, at the end of the day, unless there's some miraculous
>comeback, TDK won.

No, Titanic won, actually

I mean, if we're going to be retarded, let's be fair
about it.

LOL

  

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gluvnast
Member since Nov 19th 2006
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Sun Aug-10-08 11:11 AM

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164. "O.E. sounds like mccain bitchin' over obama's celebrity"
In response to Reply # 162


          

keep drinking that stuff that makes your soul burn slow....

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Sun Aug-10-08 11:16 AM

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166. "Haha....You sound like McCain talking about policy"
In response to Reply # 164


  

          


Seriously, you're not the sharpest tool in the shed

Haha

Even Dark Knight FANS think your arguments are dumb as shit

Haha

You said TDK is an "epic crime tale"

Seriously, FOH

----------------------------


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.



"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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jigga
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Mon Aug-11-08 11:53 AM

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185. "^^^So mad he typed all this shit thinkin I'd even bother to read it"
In response to Reply # 162


  

          

(S)laughter is the best medicine

Youse poppin mo piLLs than Heath

Slow down (c)Brand Nubian

  

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gluvnast
Member since Nov 19th 2006
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Sun Aug-10-08 11:08 AM

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163. "just reported: top box office draw 4th weekend in a row"
In response to Reply # 161


          

but, of course people like O.E. claims "no replay value"

also, this talk about ironman has a more intelligent arguement? on whut?

this thread ALONE spoke in depth about TDK's moral issues, political issues, whut defines heroism and ect.

intelligent DEBATES from a mere "comic book" movie...

whut intelligent discussion did we have on ironman? how it exploits sexism? is that's whut makes the movie popular?

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Sun Aug-10-08 11:18 AM

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167. "Goddamn. Titanic made more than Two Towers and ROTK COMBINED"
In response to Reply # 163


  

          


There goes y'all lazy, sloppy:

Box Office = a proper measure of the better movie
argument

Talk about ether



----------------------------


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.



"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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gluvnast
Member since Nov 19th 2006
2367 posts
Sun Aug-10-08 11:38 AM

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169. "props to titanic-"
In response to Reply # 167


          

you want to make the titanic arguement as if THAT'S going to change anything...

NO MOVIE, imo, is going to DO whut titanic did...nor should we even HATE on that movie, because regardless of the fact people went to see this movie REPEATEDLY

it remained at number one for 17 straight WEEKS, if i recall correctly...it won a gain of accolades included best picture and best director

whut this have to do with TDK....nothing, in me eyes...i'm just dumbfounded as to why you WANT to make the titanic comparison, especially when the DEBATE is on ironman vs. TDK?

if you're claiming that that movie isn't that "great"...it's the number one movie in the WORLD..PERIOD..and you can't take anything away from that...

i personally don't think it was all that great, but i will not knock it for whut it did and may not ever be repeated again

titanic has nothing to do with this arguement....

now back to the subject, TDK is PROVING to be a more poplar movie than ironman...and CANNOT make the excuse of "ticket sales" or "adjusted gross" as an EXCUSE....it's just IS a more popular movie

it's the BIGGEST movie of the year so far...with several critics even proclaiming "oscar" which is unusual for a summer movie, especially a comic book movie

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Sun Aug-10-08 11:47 AM

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170. "So Titanic >>>>> The Dark Knight?"
In response to Reply # 169
Sun Aug-10-08 11:48 AM by Orbit_Established

  

          

Its very, very relevant to this discussion, actually.

If you think TDK is better than Titanic(which you do),
than discussing box office success, or even
critical acclaim is rendered completely invalid in
the discussion of TDK vs Ironman.

You just said yourself that you didn't think 'Titanic'
was that great.

If TDK is better than Titanic than this conversation is
mostly over, since most of you have built your
TDK >>>>> Ironman case around box office success and
Oscar talk

LOL

Titanic wins in BOTH of those categories: It actually
grossed almost a billion, and won best picture

I mean, wow. That would be etherous








----------------------------


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.



"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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gluvnast
Member since Nov 19th 2006
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Sun Aug-10-08 12:08 PM

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171. "two completely different genres (why even make this arguement)??"
In response to Reply # 170


          

>Its very, very relevant to this discussion, actually.
>
>If you think TDK is better than Titanic(which you do),
>than discussing box office success, or even
>critical acclaim is rendered completely invalid in
>the discussion of TDK vs Ironman.
>
>You just said yourself that you didn't think 'Titanic'
>was that great.
>
>If TDK is better than Titanic than this conversation is
>mostly over, since most of you have built your
>TDK >>>>> Ironman case around box office success and
>Oscar talk
>
>LOL
>

obviously you know that your case for ironman isn't working so you want to divert the arguement to a COMPLETELY unrelatable film...

then put words in my mouth by claiming i said TDK >>>> titanic, which something i NEVER posted...

pretty sad, if i must say....i don't give a damn about titanic, but i DO know it's impact at the time it was released and something that may never be achieved again...TDK, on the otherhand is a completely different movie with completely different circumstances as well as coming from a completely different era

comparing TDK to titanic is like comparing citizen kane to lion king...great movies in their own right, but INCOMPARABLE


  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Sun Aug-10-08 01:13 PM

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173. "Okay, so is The Dark Knight >>>> Titanic?"
In response to Reply # 171


  

          


>obviously you know that your case for ironman isn't working so
>you want to divert the arguement to a COMPLETELY unrelatable
>film...

Oh no, my case for Ironman is based on the fact that it
was a superior film

Your case for Dark Knight is based on the fact that it
grossed more at the box office.

And Titanic shuts down your box office argument


>then put words in my mouth by claiming i said TDK >>>>
>titanic, which something i NEVER posted...

Okay, so answer the question


>pretty sad, if i must say....i don't give a damn about
>titanic, but i DO know it's impact at the time it was released
>and something that may never be achieved again...TDK, on the
>otherhand is a completely different movie with completely
>different circumstances as well as coming from a completely
>different era

Odd, because you have no problem saying that TDK will
surpass Star Wars, which came out thirty years ago,
than turn right around and say that you can't compare
TDK to Titanic, which came out 10 years ago

Sounds like you're copping pleas to me

>comparing TDK to titanic is like comparing citizen kane to
>lion king...great movies in their own right, but INCOMPARABLE

Right, incomparable because they ruin your box office
argument



----------------------------


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.



"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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gluvnast
Member since Nov 19th 2006
2367 posts
Sun Aug-10-08 01:28 PM

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174. "RE: Okay, so is The Dark Knight >>>>> Titanic?"
In response to Reply # 173
Sun Aug-10-08 01:31 PM by gluvnast

          


>
>Odd, because you have no problem saying that TDK will
>surpass Star Wars, which came out thirty years ago,
>than turn right around and say that you can't compare
>TDK to Titanic, which came out 10 years ago
>
>Sounds like you're copping pleas to me
>


again, where did i state titanic is better OR worst than TDK? or where did i say star wars is better or worst? i'm stating whut is factual and that's as of right now TDK is posted at the # 3 spot domestically with 441 million and star wars is at 460 million...but next week, TDK is going to surpass that mark.

the ONLY other movie that was capable of achieving that, regardless of adjusted income and ect. was titanic...you can hate all you want, but nobody would of EVER fathom a movie like this achieving that

the copping pleas is coming from you, because you're TRYING to divert the arguement. whut does this have to do with ironman? nothing! the FACT remains that TDK is still more popular than ironman...the numbers don't lie, TDK is making a historic run vs. ironman doing the usual numbers for a blockbuster movie

the 2008 summer movie of the year goes to TDK, not ironman...plain and simple

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Sun Aug-10-08 01:39 PM

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176. "Okay, so is The Dark Knight >>>> Titanic?"
In response to Reply # 174


  

          


Really, just answer the question

>again, where did i state titanic is better OR worst than TDK?
>or where did i say star wars is better or worst? i'm stating
>whut is factual and that's as of right now TDK is posted at
>the # 3 spot domestically with 441 million and star wars is at
>460 million...but next week, TDK is going to surpass that
>mark.

Right, and TDK will never, ever, ever, surpass Titanic.

And before you said Titanic and TDK aren't comparable
since they are different

Why then, is TDK comparable to Star Wars?

Hmmm


>the ONLY other movie that was capable of achieving that,
>regardless of adjusted income and ect. was titanic...you can
>hate all you want, but nobody would of EVER fathom a movie
>like this achieving that

No one fathomed Titanic achieving that either.

And Batman is an American Icon with a successful
franchise that predated it, several of which made
upwards of 300 million dollars each. I'm less surprised
by TDK being a mega success than I was by Titanic.

Dicap wasn't even a huge megastar when it came out.

Its rise to success was far more dramatic than
TDK

Add in the fact that there are no dead actors,
and its box office success is even more impressive
relative to TDK

>the copping pleas is coming from you, because you're TRYING to
>divert the arguement. whut does this have to do with ironman?
>nothing! the FACT remains that TDK is still more popular than
>ironman...the numbers don't lie, TDK is making a historic run
>vs. ironman doing the usual numbers for a blockbuster movie

Right, and Titanic was more popular than TDK is. Titanic
made more than any two films in the LOTR trilogy

The point is that box office success and popularity
have nothing to do with how good the film is relative
to another film that grossed much less

>the 2008 summer movie of the year goes to TDK, not
>ironman...plain and simple

In terms of box office? Absolutely.

In terms of quality? Nope.


----------------------------


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.



"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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gluvnast
Member since Nov 19th 2006
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Sun Aug-10-08 02:03 PM

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177. " sigh...it's like talking to a brick wall"
In response to Reply # 176


          

>
>Really, just answer the question
>

it's two completely different genres of film making. but i GUESS you think that IRONMAN is better than both, aren't you?? since you're the one trynig so hard to make some point, whutever the fuck that point is...



>
>Right, and TDK will never, ever, ever, surpass Titanic.
>
>And before you said Titanic and TDK aren't comparable
>since they are different
>
>Why then, is TDK comparable to Star Wars?


i never SAID it was...just stating a fact that it's going to surpass 460 million by next week which IS where star wars currently at. BUT if you REALLY want to go there in regarding of sales comparison with star wars, star wars ONLY made barely over 220 million in it's ORIGINAL THEATRICAL release...and that run was within a 43 WEEK span, which is completely unrealistic in today's theatrical runs...


if this was 1977, and TDK had been released, it would of been ALREADY at 139 MILLION within just 4 weeks!!!

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/adjusted.htm?adjust_yr=1977&p=.htm

star wars in ITS 4th week was ONLY BARELY close to 13 MILLION

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?page=weekend&id=starwars4.htm


this is why the whole adjustment gross shit is completely irrelevent to make an arguement, especially with star wars and the numerous times that movie was rereleased over the pass decades....

star wars is STILL one of the most important films in cinema history and it would be UNFAIR and disrespectful to even TRY to compare that to TDK, with that said....TDK is going to pass the 460 million mark in which star wars is currently at...to deny how BIG that is for ANY film passing that mark is insulting as well, because no other film aside from titanic have done that

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Sun Aug-10-08 04:05 PM

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179. "Okay, so is The Dark Knight >>>> Titanic?"
In response to Reply # 177


  

          


And its great how you've tried to divert this
conversation to a debate about Star Wars.

I'm talking about something very fundamental:

Is box office gross a proper measure of the
goodness of a film? And if it isn't, is it
fair to use in a comparison between TDK and Ironman?

We begin by asking you a simple question:

"Is TDK >>>> Titanic?"

The answer to that will end this conversation.

>it's two completely different genres of film making. but i
>GUESS you think that IRONMAN is better than both, aren't you??
>since you're the one trynig so hard to make some point,
>whutever the fuck that point is...

No, why can't you answer the question?

Because they are different films?

LOL.

I mean, there are profound differences between Ironman
and Batman as well:

TDK was a SEQUEL to an already successful movie, which
is the SECOND TAKE on a character who is, alongside
Superman, the most popular superhero in America.

Ironman was a part ONE with little
of the hype that accompanies a sequel.
When you throw in the fact that Ironman
is nowhere near as popular a superhero, overall, as
Batman, than I can make the same argument that their
box office grosses shouldn't be compared either.


So again:

"Is Dark Knight>>>>>Titanic?"

Answer the question


>
>i never SAID it was...just stating a fact that it's going to
>surpass 460 million by next week which IS where star wars
>currently at. BUT if you REALLY want to go there in regarding
>of sales comparison with star wars, star wars ONLY made barely
>over 220 million in it's ORIGINAL THEATRICAL release...and
>that run was within a 43 WEEK span, which is completely
>unrealistic in today's theatrical runs...

With matinee tickets coming in at less than $1.00 most
places.

Wrong.

>if this was 1977, and TDK had been released, it would of been
>ALREADY at 139 MILLION within just 4 weeks!!!
>
>http://www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/adjusted.htm?adjust_yr=1977&p=.htm
>
>star wars in ITS 4th week was ONLY BARELY close to 13 MILLION
>
>http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?page=weekend&id=starwars4.htm


>this is why the whole adjustment gross shit is completely
>irrelevent to make an arguement, especially with star wars and
>the numerous times that movie was rereleased over the pass
>decades....

Not sure how you can ignore the ticket prices argument
here.

>star wars is STILL one of the most important films in cinema
>history and it would be UNFAIR and disrespectful to even TRY
>to compare that to TDK, with that said....TDK is going to pass
>the 460 million mark in which star wars is currently at...to
>deny how BIG that is for ANY film passing that mark is
>insulting as well, because no other film aside from titanic
>have done that

Still not sure how you can ignore the ticket prices
argument here.

  

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gluvnast
Member since Nov 19th 2006
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Sun Aug-10-08 05:40 PM

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181. "whut part of this did you not understand?"
In response to Reply # 179


          


>
>>if this was 1977, and TDK had been released, it would of
>been
>>ALREADY at 139 MILLION within just 4 weeks!!!
>>
>>http://www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/adjusted.htm?adjust_yr=1977&p=.htm


>>
>>star wars in ITS 4th week was ONLY BARELY close to 13
>MILLION
>>
>>http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?page=weekend&id=starwars4.htm
>




>>this is why the whole adjustment gross shit is completely
>>irrelevent to make an arguement, especially with star wars
>and
>>the numerous times that movie was rereleased over the pass
>>decades....




>Not sure how you can ignore the ticket prices argument
>here.
>


i guess you are allergic to links....the ticket price arguement is pretty much MUTE. star wars original theatrical run lasted 43 weeks and made 220 million within that run. had TDK debuted that same year, it would of already reached more than HALF that mark within only 4 WEEKS (as shown in the links)....we're talking about same ticket price and everything...once again it's an ILLOGICAL premise to ever use because they're from TWO completely different eras with completely different ways movies were marketed and kept during their theatrical runtime....

but if you got a brain of a brick, then i guess you will never understand that

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Sun Aug-10-08 09:58 PM

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182. "Okay, so is The Dark Knight >>>> Titanic?"
In response to Reply # 181


  

          


????

Curious what you think.


>i guess you are allergic to links....the ticket price
>arguement is pretty much MUTE. star wars original theatrical
>run lasted 43 weeks and made 220 million within that run. had
>TDK debuted that same year, it would of already reached more
>than HALF that mark within only 4 WEEKS (as shown in the
>links)....we're talking about same ticket price and
>everything...once again it's an ILLOGICAL premise to ever use
>because they're from TWO completely different eras with
>completely different ways movies were marketed and kept during
>their theatrical runtime....

Well, that precludes their comparison in many ways,
and also means your dumbass use of box office totals
is also mute. Lots of shit was different about movies
then.


But seriously:


Okay, so is The Dark Knight >>>> Titanic?

----------------------------


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.



"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Sun Aug-10-08 11:13 AM

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165. "O_E's Powerful Analogy: The Dark Knight = A Superhero Titanic"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


Good for Titanic. It made that bread. Can
never be mad at that. Ever. Good for the cast,
for Cam, for Dicap, all them niggas.

(Same for Nolan, Bale, Oldman, and dead man)

Titanic benefited from a sad, lonely, love
starved population. Because the population was like that,
it was able to pass off a bad, bland, long, very average
film and turn it into a mega phenomenon.

The Dark Knight benefited from an ADHD-havin,
apathetic, uninspired generation of mostly young people,
who like to see exciting things happen to brighten up
they're bland lives

Just like lonely niggas needed to see true love in Titanic
ADHD niggas needed to see damn near 3 hours of story arcs
and gimmicks

Good for them both

Both films was about a C, though.

And mad films was better.

Ironman an A, and shit, nigga

Hell, Titanic made MORE THAN THE TWO TOWERS
and the RETURN OF THE KING COMBINED

LOL

Niggas tryna tell me it was better than those two?

Dumb niggas using box office for arguing caliber

Haha



----------------------------


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.



"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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rdhull
Charter member
33137 posts
Sun Aug-10-08 03:46 PM

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178. "^^^saw TDK 3 times"
In response to Reply # 165


  

          

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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180. "Mad?"
In response to Reply # 178


  

          


Why for?

----------------------------


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.



"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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ChuckNeal
Member since Feb 03rd 2004
5458 posts
Mon Aug-11-08 11:37 AM

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183. "How can you pull the "u mad?" shit..."
In response to Reply # 180


          

..when you're screaming all through this thread like a kid who got his bike stolen. You've spent all this time and energy on an argument between two comic book movies. Shit is hilarious. But keep up the waste of your life, it is funny. (waits for the u mad response that is sure to be entertaining).

Famousfarrah.com <--- a webseries I worked on

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Mon Aug-11-08 11:52 AM

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184. "Yowzers. You really are mad, though."
In response to Reply # 183
Mon Aug-11-08 11:53 AM by Orbit_Established

  

          

LOL

Wow.

>..when you're screaming all through this thread like a kid
>who got his bike stolen. You've spent all this time and energy
>on an argument between two comic book movies. Shit is
>hilarious. But keep up the waste of your life, it is funny.
>(waits for the u mad response that is sure to be
>entertaining).

^^^That didn't sound mad to you?

Read it again.

As for Orbit_Sexy, he's just introspective.

I can't help but shit on y'all favorite movie,
because its not very good. No anger involved.
I'm happy for Nolan and them. Make that paper.

If anything, its inspiring to me, since it
shows how far lazy, amateurish efforts can
go if you have enough hype, gimmicks, and
dead people.

Now I know I have to work half as hard to get
what I want out of life.

Go Dark Knight!

Dark Knight adding free time(pussy, liquor,
and sleep) to my life(already full of pussy,
but little liquor and sleep).



----------------------------


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.



"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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Tiger Woods
Member since Feb 15th 2004
18387 posts
Mon Aug-11-08 02:14 PM

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188. "yo man, curious, why do you care so much though?"
In response to Reply # 184


  

          


like I'm certain Iron Man is better. but I don't really care. Dark Knight was disappointing, but I'm not like vehemently bitter about it.

on the real you've probably dedicated over 100 posts to hating Dark Knight and I'm just interested to know why you want everyone to know you hate it so bad

  

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ChuckNeal
Member since Feb 03rd 2004
5458 posts
Mon Aug-11-08 02:21 PM

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189. "n/m"
In response to Reply # 184
Mon Aug-11-08 02:22 PM by ChuckNeal

          

n/m

Famousfarrah.com <--- a webseries I worked on

  

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ChuckNeal
Member since Feb 03rd 2004
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Mon Aug-11-08 02:21 PM

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190. "ORBIT ESTABLISHED!"
In response to Reply # 184


          

Keep it up, this is good stuff.

Famousfarrah.com <--- a webseries I worked on

  

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jambone
Member since Aug 08th 2005
24803 posts
Mon Aug-11-08 02:48 PM

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192. "its impossible for IronMan be as bad as the Dark Knight...."
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Aug-11-08 02:52 PM by jambone

  

          

yeah, Heath was a cool ass muthaf*cker in the movie. the makeup, his crazy ass laugh (his theme music), and the fact that he died (a tortured soul...thus, enhancing the impact of the character on the viewing public).

aside from that, Dark Knight sucked as bad as Batman's fight sequences. Aint Batman supposed to be some trained ninja or some sh*t in this series? n*gga had only like 3 types of punches and 1 elbow move.

the only thing they got right was the truck flip (and batman doing the subsequent reverse-pop-wheely with the motor bike), batman jumping off high story buildings, and The Joker opening sequence.


Here is why the Joker opening sequence worked, unlike the rest of the movie:

you got an idea of what type of man/villain/criminal mastermind/pscyhopath that you were dealing with, without tons of exposition shoved down your throat telling you WHY he is such. you saw it for yourself. from the opening shot when you first see the joker from behind with his clown mask off, until after it was over and they pulled out in the school bus. You said to yourself, "damn, thats one ill, slick muthaf*cker".


the rest of the movie failed to do this. instead of the director telling the story, the characters actually told it. i keep hearing how "real" this installment of the batman series is, but its anything but. just look at the last scene where the Joker and Batman are together. their conversation wasn't real at all. it was solely plot explanation. thats basically what 98% of the entire dialogue of the movie was.

the ideology is cool, but the director fails to bring it home. he takes the b*tch route by letting the characters explain everything. every cotdamn thing. the director told you what the movie was about, instead of showing you.

you don't believe Harvey is a white knight, because you aren't shown it nor has his character been developed enough in the story for you to believe it. but you are told this.

you don't sense the despair for a hero in Gotham, because the story is not well-developed enough for you to believe it, but you are told this.

everything is shoved down your throat, "hey this is what it is, believe it because we are telling it...and in the meantime...and look at these cool explosions...look how cool Heath is...is this Batmobile motorcycle tight!...look ma, we are in Hong Kong...".

Ironman is Mike Tyson. Dark Knight is Glass Joe. its not a fair fight

  

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gluvnast
Member since Nov 19th 2006
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Mon Aug-11-08 03:31 PM

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193. "in regards of doing the "action" comparison"
In response to Reply # 192


          

if you dislike the action in TDK...cool, your opinion, but i'm curious, whut "amazing" action sequences did ironman have? with an armor like his with unlimited capabilities...the action scenes, especially the final battle, was definitely lackluster...

if you ask me, i think the majority that liked TDK is not because of the action, but the suspense and drama....most people's favorite scene from whut i've been hearing is the interrogation scene or the hospital scene which are not action scenes at all....


either way, i think i posted this once before, i never read in the comic of batman being some "stylish" fighting superhero...he was always blunt and straight to the point with his fights...there's NEVER been a batman movie, cartoon, or graphic novel that shows off some sick fighting sequence...not one, so i can live with something like that

  

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Coatesvillain
Member since Aug 24th 2005
7290 posts
Tue Aug-12-08 04:29 PM

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195. "Batman never got his ass kicked by dogs"
In response to Reply # 193


  

          

Until this movie. No one's saying he needs to be like the Matrix (I think will touched on this) but Batman is skilled in hand to hand combat. I mean they spent time in the first movie showing him being trained at some type of martial art but there's no example of that here. He can bend gun barrels though.

Also you kinda glazed over jam's point about the dialogue telling the story instead of Nolan and co. showing us what's happening.

I have a ton of complaints about this movie but my main ones regard the Batman character itself. When I think Batman I think great detective, genius with gadgets, and skilled fighter. We didn't really get any of those things here. Maybe that's because the character itself was an after thought.

Another beef I have is the quest for realism. I mean, I know Batman has no special powers but that doesn't mean he's a realistic character. It actually made him look silly in this movie.

There was some interesting moments in this movie but it ultimately felt like a movie I would've turned off if I was at home.

-------
"Andy justifies my hate."
http://www.twitter.com/coatesvillain
http://coates.tumblr.com

  

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gluvnast
Member since Nov 19th 2006
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Tue Aug-12-08 05:00 PM

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196. "batman is still human with no superpowers"
In response to Reply # 195


          

you mean to tell me that anyone can fight off 5 ROCS effortlessly all at once???

in fact, the talk with lucious sorta foreshadowed this when he asked if the new flexible suit would protect him from dogs....

he STILL was able to overcome the dogs, both times, within a couple of minutes...but there's no way any HUMAN can evade 5 dogs all at once

  

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gluvnast
Member since Nov 19th 2006
2367 posts
Tue Aug-12-08 05:30 PM

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198. "also, in regards of batman's character as a whole""
In response to Reply # 195


          


>I have a ton of complaints about this movie but my main ones
>regard the Batman character itself. When I think Batman I
>think great detective, genius with gadgets, and skilled
>fighter. We didn't really get any of those things here.
>Maybe that's because the character itself was an after
>thought.
>

this is the ONLY batman film to my knowledge that batman USES his detective skills....i mean the whole fractured bullet thing just to find fingerprints alone pretty much destroys this arguement of not being a genuis with gadgets while using detective work at the sametime

or how they figured out about mr. reese's attacker which is PURELY detective work at play....or even his judgement on the ferry's and the twist about the hostages posing as joker's men....

and lets not even talk about gadgets...the difference is that nolan never tries to EXPLOIT these things over telling a story...but from the old suit having hydrolics to bend a gun barrel or stop a moving van to the gun that shoots out EMP devices to kill off the electricity in a building to the fuckin' SONAR shit at the end...the GADGETS were there...even how he escaped lao's building from hong kong was a neat trick...

if you want to nitpick, fine...but to say things that blatantly you were either not paying attention or just want to hate for the sake of hating then you need to find better arguements than this...


one more thing, had you not think this is part of batman's evolution? in the beginning, batman thought his purpose would be symbolic and he so-calls "has no limits"...he realizes that his followers don't exactly understand whut his true purpose suppose to be as well as them being a distraction....he also thought that all criminals have a purpose or a need to do crime, until he meets the joker who has no purpose or need..he just does it for the hell of it. and with that, the joker's character is whut brings out the true essence of whut batman is because they both fits a ying & yang...an on-going debate with real consequences involved which is something that the joker elaborated to batman towards the end of the movie...to paraphrase him, "we could go on like this forever"...

it's the LAST monologue by gordon is whut defines whut batman that we know in the comic will eventually be which is a "dark knight" or a protector or guardian of gotham, which is EXACTLY whut batman is today

i mean, i could go on and on with examples about charactization...but, basically, if you feel the fighting wasn't to your liking...that's your taste and preference in fight scenes..but i see no huge problem with it being that in the comics, batman was always quick and to the point, nothing flashy...and that's exactly how they are in this film...quick & to the point, nothing fancy...examples being the hong kong break-in, the club scene, and fighting the SWAT team using sonar...but if you can into this movie EXPECTING some eye-popping fight sequences, then hey...hate this movie

the movie's more psycological drama vs. physical action

  

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rdhull
Charter member
33137 posts
Tue Aug-12-08 10:52 PM

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204. "RE: also, in regards of batman's character as a whole""
In response to Reply # 198


  

          

>
>>I have a ton of complaints about this movie but my main ones
>>regard the Batman character itself. When I think Batman I
>>think great detective, genius with gadgets, and skilled
>>fighter. We didn't really get any of those things here.
>>Maybe that's because the character itself was an after
>>thought.
>>
>
>this is the ONLY batman film to my knowledge that batman USES
>his detective skills....i mean the whole fractured bullet
>thing just to find fingerprints alone pretty much destroys
>this arguement of not being a genuis with gadgets while using
>detective work at the sametime
>
>or how they figured out about mr. reese's attacker which is
>PURELY detective work at play....or even his judgement on the
>ferry's and the twist about the hostages posing as joker's
>men....
>
>and lets not even talk about gadgets...the difference is that
>nolan never tries to EXPLOIT these things over telling a
>story...but from the old suit having hydrolics to bend a gun
>barrel or stop a moving van to the gun that shoots out EMP
>devices to kill off the electricity in a building to the
>fuckin' SONAR shit at the end...the GADGETS were there...even
>how he escaped lao's building from hong kong was a neat
>trick...
>
>if you want to nitpick, fine...but to say things that
>blatantly you were either not paying attention or just want to
>hate for the sake of hating then you need to find better
>arguements than this...
>
>
>one more thing, had you not think this is part of batman's
>evolution? in the beginning, batman thought his purpose would
>be symbolic and he so-calls "has no limits"...he realizes that
>his followers don't exactly understand whut his true purpose
>suppose to be as well as them being a distraction....he also
>thought that all criminals have a purpose or a need to do
>crime, until he meets the joker who has no purpose or need..he
>just does it for the hell of it. and with that, the joker's
>character is whut brings out the true essence of whut batman
>is because they both fits a ying & yang...an on-going debate
>with real consequences involved which is something that the
>joker elaborated to batman towards the end of the movie...to
>paraphrase him, "we could go on like this forever"...
>
>it's the LAST monologue by gordon is whut defines whut batman
>that we know in the comic will eventually be which is a "dark
>knight" or a protector or guardian of gotham, which is EXACTLY
>whut batman is today
>
>i mean, i could go on and on with examples about
>charactization...but, basically, if you feel the fighting
>wasn't to your liking...that's your taste and preference in
>fight scenes..but i see no huge problem with it being that in
>the comics, batman was always quick and to the point, nothing
>flashy...and that's exactly how they are in this film...quick
>& to the point, nothing fancy...examples being the hong kong
>break-in, the club scene, and fighting the SWAT team using
>sonar...but if you can into this movie EXPECTING some
>eye-popping fight sequences, then hey...hate this movie
>
>the movie's more psycological drama vs. physical action

excellent break down...thank you

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
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Wed Aug-13-08 12:18 PM

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211. "And here's the problem right here..."
In response to Reply # 198
Wed Aug-13-08 12:18 PM by SoulHonky

          

"it's the LAST monologue by gordon is whut defines whut batman that we know in the comic will eventually be which is a "dark knight" or a protector or guardian of gotham, which is EXACTLY whut batman is today"

A) You have to specify which monologue you are talking about.

B) The fact that your action hero is defined by a monologue.

The psychological drama of the film is IMO the weakest part.

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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rdhull
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Thu Aug-14-08 08:30 PM

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219. "it's not a problem..you just want No Country For Old Men"
In response to Reply # 211


  

          

>"it's the LAST monologue by gordon is whut defines whut
>batman that we know in the comic will eventually be which is a
>"dark knight" or a protector or guardian of gotham, which is
>EXACTLY whut batman is today"
>
>A) You have to specify which monologue you are talking about.
>
>B) The fact that your action hero is defined by a monologue.
>
>The psychological drama of the film is IMO the weakest part.

Nah--nothing wrong with a dramatic ending monologue....

I think some of yall are stuck on that BAM!..WHAP! 60's Batman show or miss Schumacher lol



  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
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Thu Aug-14-08 08:43 PM

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220. "That makes no sense (and spare me the ridiculous strawman)"
In response to Reply # 219


          

If I wanted No Country For Old Men, why would I be upset about a closing monologue?

The problem is that almost the entire Two Face plot was told to you through monologues. The facts, who the characters were, how they felt about one another, their importance, etc. Everything was told to you and in many cases, what we saw didn't support what was being said.

It's completely different from No Country for Old Men in which we were shown everything and the Tommy Lee Jones character was almost like the chorus adding a layer onto the action.

And the last part of your post has nothing to do with the discussion (and is dead wrong).

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
16105 posts
Tue Aug-12-08 05:37 PM

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199. "iron man's a much better comic book movie, TDK's a better"
In response to Reply # 0


          

MOVIE.

They both did a great job of staying true to their source comics tho; but all in all, I enjoyed Batman way more.

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Tue Aug-12-08 06:52 PM

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200. "I'm disappointed in you, bruh"
In response to Reply # 199


  

          


LOL

J/K

Nah, but you stay on the same page with me

Not this time tho

*shrugs*


----------------------------


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.



"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
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Tue Aug-12-08 08:47 PM

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201. "yeah, i know, kinda surprised me too"
In response to Reply # 200


          

i don't think of tdk as an action flick, really. But most good batman stories ain't action stories.

They're crime stories/mindfucks, especially when the joker's involved, so i wa real happy with the movie

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86672 posts
Tue Aug-12-08 09:13 PM

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202. "Damn, gluvnast's TDK stannery makes my love of X2 look icy and calm."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

When was the last time a dude so passionately defended a summer flick like this? Dude's one step away from saying this film could unify Israel and Palestine.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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gluvnast
Member since Nov 19th 2006
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Tue Aug-12-08 10:38 PM

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203. "i'm very opinionated on anything"
In response to Reply # 202


          

it's not just this movie...speak any subject, especially one i'll disagree with and i'll stand strong towards...unless i'm proven factually wrong


with this case....the poll pretty much swings in my favor

one thing for sure, i will challenge any debate and back my opinions up with examples...

  

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rdhull
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Tue Aug-12-08 11:00 PM

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205. "yours is 'love' and his is stannery?"
In response to Reply # 202


  

          

lmao

  

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gluvnast
Member since Nov 19th 2006
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Wed Aug-13-08 06:56 AM

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206. "unlike frank with X2- at least i never said TDK is flawless"
In response to Reply # 205


          

i can get arguementive about certain things from the movie, but i DO acknowledge the universal flaws from batman's voice to the wasted use of scarecrow...

frank, on the other hand, kept claiming that X2 said no flaws at all....

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Wed Aug-13-08 08:43 AM

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208. "Nope, you're a bonafide stan"
In response to Reply # 206


  

          

>i can get arguementive about certain things from the movie,
>but i DO acknowledge the universal flaws from batman's voice
>to the wasted use of scarecrow...


>frank, on the other hand, kept claiming that X2 said no flaws
>at all....

X2 had far fewer flaws than The Dark Knight. The Dark Knight
is loaded with massive holes and dumbshitness.



----------------------------


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.



"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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shockzilla
Charter member
37800 posts
Wed Aug-13-08 09:26 AM

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209. "and you're a bonafide fuckwit."
In response to Reply # 208


          

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Wed Aug-13-08 11:31 AM

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210. "No, I'm just not to be fucked wit."
In response to Reply # 209


  

          


n/m

  

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buckshot defunct
Member since May 02nd 2003
26345 posts
Wed Aug-13-08 12:31 PM

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212. "http://tinyurl.com/6kt3pj"
In response to Reply # 210


  

          



-----------------------------
http://talestosuffice.com/
@kennykeil

  

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shockzilla
Charter member
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Wed Aug-13-08 12:59 PM

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216. "that's likely true"
In response to Reply # 210


          

hence all the attention-seeking on here

just as well for you, you're clearly an expert at sucking your own dick.

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Thu Aug-14-08 09:02 PM

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222. "I have waited for someone to point out the flaws in X2."
In response to Reply # 206


  

          

I'm still waiting.

Just because it "shoots for a lower target" (an elitist opinion, if one asks me) doesn't make it not flawless.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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ShinobiShaw
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Wed Aug-13-08 08:15 AM

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207. "Well I will say this Ironman 2 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Batman TDK"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

You guys are forgetting this is Ironman's first dip in the movie pool. They knocked it out the park on the first at bat. Part 2 is going to murder Spiderman 2/Xmen 2 and Batman:the dark knight and hulk 2 for that matter

Given marvel's track record their 2nd movie in the series tends to be the better movie of the trilogy

xmen 2/spiderman 2/hulk 2

blade 2 was the one exception I liked blade 1 better

Ironman 3 might be epically bad

<------ Boho Model Madness Presents: Dimepiece

http://www.rareformnyc.com
http://www.myspace.com/shinobishaw
http://www.myspace.com/djshinobishaw
http://www.last.fm/user/ShinoShaw

  

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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
43744 posts
Wed Aug-13-08 12:34 PM

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213. "RE: Well I will say this Ironman 2 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Batman TDK"
In response to Reply # 207


  

          


>Given marvel's track record their 2nd movie in the series
>tends to be the better movie of the trilogy

Marvel has only made 2 movies...and neither was a sequel.

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

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gluvnast
Member since Nov 19th 2006
2367 posts
Wed Aug-13-08 12:44 PM

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215. "he's saying marvel as a whole...not marvel studios"
In response to Reply # 213


          

as a whole the sequels, with the exception to fantastic 4, WERE superior

  

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ShinobiShaw
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Thu Aug-14-08 05:23 PM

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218. "*slap*"
In response to Reply # 213


  

          


<------ Boho Model Madness Presents: Dimepiece

http://www.rareformnyc.com
http://www.myspace.com/shinobishaw
http://www.myspace.com/djshinobishaw
http://www.last.fm/user/ShinoShaw

  

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gluvnast
Member since Nov 19th 2006
2367 posts
Wed Aug-13-08 12:41 PM

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214. "possible, but definitely ironman 2 >>>> ironman"
In response to Reply # 207


          

if the comic book trend continues...

if i'm not mistaken...the only comic book sequel that WASN'T superior to the the 1st was the 2nd fantastic 4 movie

other than that...consider the following

superman II
spider man II
batman returns
blade II
X2
even, technically, the incredible hulk


but for ironman II to be at least on the level of TDK, they have to have an oscar caliber villian at the bare miminum- if pacino & soon ledger can get nominated from playing a role based from the comics....then it's not something impossible to achieve

2nd, they can't keep it simple...keeping it simple is good and safe, but the movie HAVE to take risks the next go around

whut made spiderman 2 so great was because they had a dope ass villain with doc ock, and created incredible action battles with spidey almost throughout to at along to a great story

whut made X2 great was how DOPE the story was, how they expanded the x-men circle, and it never slowed down

TDK was all and the above, along with benefitting us some food for thought in regards of morality and terrorism

if ironman 2 can capture those things, all the above, while still staying true to it's original charm, then it would be a masterpiece

  

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jambone
Member since Aug 08th 2005
24803 posts
Wed Aug-13-08 01:11 PM

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217. "food for thought? more like a smorgasbord of verbal diarrhea"
In response to Reply # 214


  

          

>TDK was all and the above, along with benefitting us some food
>for thought in regards of morality and terrorism
>

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Thu Aug-14-08 09:35 PM

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223. "Yup. That's why Americans suck at morality and foreign policy"
In response to Reply # 217


  

          

>>TDK was all and the above, along with benefitting us some
>food
>>for thought in regards of morality and terrorism

Its safe to say that if TDK gave you anything to think about
in regards to morality or terrorism, than you're a fucking
imbecile. Hate to say it, but its true.

Hate to call people names, but you know what I'm saying.

People who LOVE TDK ain't even sayin THAT. Most are
just saying it was fun and cool. I can understand that
more than "food for thought."

----------------------------


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.



"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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justin_scott
Charter member
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Thu Aug-14-08 08:59 PM

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221. "i loved both, but iron man wasn't close IMO"
In response to Reply # 0


          

iron man 2, with an alcoholism story could be up to par with TDK tho.

************************************************************

  

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