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Abdul Malik Muhammad
Member since Sep 25th 2002
132 posts
Wed Mar-05-03 01:58 PM

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"My Experience with some Jewish Holocaust Survivors"


          

Today I was invited to a speech based on the Holocaust, I never really thought of it till today. I had the oppertunity to see clips of what it was like, how the city's were before the Nazi's destroyed them and how they were after. Its really sad. Best of all I had to oppertunity to talk with survivors. This is the last generation we will probaly ever see them. And I want to share this experience with yall.

The Holocaust came about in the 1930's. The jewish could live with the Germans with nothing but Peace there was never any problems. The people were working they had nice jobs. They were proud. Until this man named Adolf Hitler was elected, the Germans were threatning the livee of people in order to get him into office, litterely. Adolt Hitler did alot for the German economy which was low before his arrivel I mean very low. Adolt Hitler bought the economy up but he blamed the reason for it being so low on the jews. You allways need someone to blame something on. There was about 1% jews in Germany period and he blamed them. First it was minor on how the Jewish were treated. They had to wear these white things on they arms with the Star of David on it to identify they were Jewish to the Germen Soildiers. Because of these things they were harrassed, whipped, and sometimes even killed. These Germans felt the Jews were a major threat and they wanted to punish them to make them feel bad and leave. But the Jews refused they felt that the surrounding they have raised they familys in was their home as well. And would not leave. So the Germans came up with a new plan. A plan that would finish the Jewish "threat" period. Through out Germany and other places in the USSR they had what you would call concentration camps. Where they would make the ones able to work work, and the ones un able to work were killed. In the cities A Germans Calores a day was a little over 400, the Polish were only allowed 550 and the Jews were only allowd to consume 180 calores a day. When the human need to have atleast 2000 to be healthy and to live. I met 3 survivors and I would like to tell they stories to all that is interested. There are 2 males and 1 woman. I will list them in the order they spoke.

Marga Randall
This was a woman who was from Germany I cant grasp what part, I missed this but anyway she was sleep one day in her house with her favorite doll somewhere in Germany and she heard the most terrible noises I mean terrible Noises, these Noises were the Germans taking them out of they house to burn they house down. This woman ran downstiars to get confort from her family, and her and her family fleed out of this house, and ran to the closest thing open which was a christian owned hospital. After a couple of hours they retured to the home to see nothing standing but a chair which still had all four legs. This chair was used to confort her aching grandmother. The people swept the broken glass and lived in this burned house. For 3 weeks after these 3 weeks then they lived on the streets for a while, while living about 30 people signed up to get accepted into the USA months later the paper work came and this woman and her mother and her sister were accepted to become citizens of the USA. Her brothers and other family members were sent to concentration camps. And were killed and she never heard from them again ever. They didnt make it out of this terrible situation. But during this whole scence she had 1 possesion which was a doll, this was her thing to talk to, to express herself to. A way to ease her from this terrible situation. When her and her family were accepted to the USA the only thing they thought of was the statue of liberty, to them this meant freedom at last and would have been the greatest feeling of they lives to see this. They got the oppertunity and it amazed her, and gave her a sign of relief. She returned to her country later on to teach about what happened but she said she would never move back there its just to hurtful. She still has this doll to the day, its not the original the original broke due to the material and the change of weather. She also said before they hit america they were giving meat and an orange, all the people at the meat and never ate the orange and when they hit USA they all ate the oranges and celebrated they freedom. She says everytime she smells an orange it makes her realize that special day.

Jack Sittsmer
This was a man from Poland he lived a happy life and loved to be with his friend and family. At the age of 14 the Germans came in and invaded his home in Poland. The population of this village was about 1500 people and out of the 1500, about 500 were Jewish. He went to a Catholic school and at this school he was being taught to hate the Jews, by the teachers. Him and his family were forced to wear a white band on they arms with a star of David on it to signifie they were Jews so that they may be indentified. During this age of his which was 14 when the Nazi invaded Poland for the first time the first thing they did was burned down the 3 Synogodes in his village. His father was no longer allowed to work because he was born Jewish, they ate because of the mother which had to sell all of her Jewelry to keep the family fed. All of the Jewish were forced out of they homes during the night, and the Nazi's made these people march all the way to the Airport during this march his father slacked and was shot in the head right in front of this childs face. When they went to the Airport people there was 2 ways to go left and right. His mother and grandparent were told to go right while him and his brothers were told to go left. He never seen his family members again it was just him and his brother. The Nazis made him forget his name and gave him a new name which was a number, this number happened to be 60,080 this was his new name. These reason they were told to go left is because the Germans thought it would be good to make them work. The people who went to the right were killed. The people who went to the left were forced to fix airplanes with no training and if there were errors on the planes they were killed for trying to kill Germans. But remember they had no training. These people slept between shelves on hay some were fortunate to have blankets but not many. The most important possesion to these people was the 1 dish they had. If you lost this dish you starve and you die. These people had to wear uniforms that were stripped. They were filthy and filled with lice. Many of his friends were put to death and they were forced to work with no breaks. The Germans would say if you dont feel good to the people raise your hands. If you raised you hand you were exucuted because the Nazi's felt that you were no use to them if you were sick. He went to about 7 concentration camps all together. Until 1945 when they were liberated by the USA, he weighed only 72 pounds he lost over 45 pounds during this time frame. They were free and didnt even know it the gates were not gaurded by the Germans anymore, and American liberators came to them and said you were free. Some of the Jews believed them and left, and others were scared it was a trick from the Germans so they dug tunnels out of there. But in actuality they were really free. The American souilders gave these people rations and sent them on they ways. The boy ran and went on the journey to his way home. On his way he met a retired nurse who took him into her home, and fed him burned his uniform and provided him with new clothes, gave him a hot bath and a bed to sleep in. He slept on the floor because he forget what it was like to sleep in a bed. He went to Italy in search of his brother and was told shocking news that he didnt survive, and was told that he was the only survivor in his entire family.... He didnt believe this and he went searching on the internet and he actually found there was one survivor a cousin of his who lives in Isreal at the time.

Sam Wienrab
This man was from Checnoslovachia (error) He lived with 2 bros a sister and his parents. He was at a Barmitzfah one night ( this is a ceromony when a young Jew becomes a man) and when he came home he noticed his parents werent there and his home locked. A naighbor told him the news. That the Nazi's took his family away, and the Naighbor said i can help you get away, i know people who will help you get to Hungry, him and the non Jewish naighbor headed out that night and the naighbor led him to someone else and the naighbor said follow the instructions of this man. The man he met up with told him like do all as i say and you will be okay. The man led him to a point and said this is how you do so and so this is how you avoid being caught sneaking into Hungry. He walked and crawled for hours six hours so he would not be seen by the gaurds. When he made it there he met another person, and this person asked him did he have family he said i have grandparents and a uncle, he said i cannot take you to your grandparent because you will be caught and they will be killed so he sent him to the uncles. His uncle knew something was terribly wrong, and let him stay with him. Until someone snitched on the uncle and the uncle persuaded a friend to let the child stay with him. He was only at this man house for 2 weeks. Before the man came to him nervous and said you cant stay anymore they know im smuggling an immagrint. The child left without asking for money or anything, and slept in a park during this night. Next morning he looked for work, he didnt want to work for money he wanted to worked for food, no one hired him but some people were kind enough to provide him with food. He lived behind a closed factory, and spent his days searching for food in trash cans behind resturaunts at 13. He went to the police thinking it was the safe thing to do and they will help. And he asked them could he go to his grandparent house to live. Before he finished the sentenced he was slapped in the face by a cop. And the cop said the only place you are going is to prison, he went to prison for 2 years and was doing slave laighbor while there cleaning and alot more. After the 2 years he was finally allowed to live with his grandparent but 2 days out of the week he had to report to the station. At this police station during these 2 days he was whoped. Every week this happened. They called him names like Dirty jew and so on and so forth. They told him if he tells hes going to prison. So he never told. He remained with his grandparent for a short time until the Germans came and took him and his family. They were all put on trains and sent to consentration camps. On this trains there was no bathroom no water, no lights no nothing. People were crying, some were so shocked and werent talking, some were praying the whole train ride. When they got off the trains the Germans seperated the people, the ones sent to the right were givin a towel and a bar of soup and the people sent to the left were forced into work. The people with the towel and the soup went into these showers and were locked in, this showers were really gas chambers and they were all killed. His family all went to the right and were not as fortunate as him. His name was tooken away from him and he was now known as A4659 and was forced to work for the Germans. When on the left a German souldier came to them and said, you are here to work I want you to remember all the words out of my mouth, if you dont work you will be sent to the chambers remember all that im saying. 2 men said I dont believe you can give me a good days of work, and they man shot them both in the head, and said I know yall will remember that. He was sent to work in a coal mine. He was very weak and the stronger people often helped him, he was so weak he couldnt lift a shovel of coal, and never did because his companions who were stronger allways helped him, and he never got caught. The had a hospital on this camp and the Germans on the camp said if you get sick go to this hospital and you will be helped. It didnt take them long to figure out that when they went to this hospital they would never ever return at all. 7 days a week these people had a peice of bread and black cofee during the morning and evening this is what they lived off of. The Germans made the Jews go on a 3 day march non stop, and when this MArch started hit was 5000 to 6000 men, when it ended it was only 400 still alive. Whosoever couldnt do this march was killed. While walking he said to the boy next to him named David, im going to make a run for it are you coming David said you are a damn fool. Dont do it, the boy said I will and ran, he says he doesnt remember how long he ran, but he said he woke up in a Russian hospital 2 weeks later he was sent somewhere else to a camp, and shortly later he was sent to America. He was a free man and he was the only one in his whole family to survive and I got to oppertunity to hear this story.

It took the man years to tell his own children about this story, and its a painful thing.

Before these people they were asked what do they have to say.

All of them replied America is the best place in the world. And dont take your freedom for granted. And love everyone and never hate anyone.

These people are doing a Calab on a book. This book is called "Flairs to Freedom" I was told its a great book and it was recommended to read.

All of these event happened over 60 years ago, and im happy I got a chance to hear about them from the people who lived these events. This is the last generations of these people living, and it was a nice thing to gain knowledge on. And I undestand the Holocaust alot more

--------------------


Dr York

Oww Touch me baby, cmon baby, Ill give you a ride in my UFO.


A Question Asked to Dr. Malachi Z. York taken from "The Man From Planet Risq" book


QUESTION: You Have Been Teaching Undisputable Facts For Over 25 Years How Did You Manage To Learn And Teach So Much lnformation For The Amount Of Years You Have?


ANSWER: I Am A Being From The 19th Galaxy Called lLLYUWN. We Have Been Coming To This Planet Before It Had Your Life Form On It. I Manifest Into This Body To Speak Through This Body. I Am A Entity An Etheric Being. We Watched The 3 Other Cycles Of 18,000 Years, Two Moons And One Sun Which Is Part Of Your 24,000 Year Cycle, The Equinox; The Removal Of The Dust Cloud From Light To Darkness Then To Light Again. I Incarnated Into This Realm From Time To Time. My Incarnation As An Ilah Mutajassid Or Avatara Was Originally In The Year 1945 A.D. In Order To Get Here I Travelled By One Of The Smaller Passenger Crafts Called SHAM Out Of A Motherplane Called MERKABAH Or NIBIRU.

"قل هو الله احد"

Say he Allah is 1 - this doesn't include 5%ers

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
RE: My Experience with some Jewish Holocaust Survivors
Mar 05th 2003
1
RE: My Experience with some Jewish Holocaust Survivors
Mar 05th 2003
2
RE: My Experience with some Jewish Holocaust Survivors
Mar 05th 2003
3
      Thank you for the post...
Mar 05th 2003
4
Great post.
Mar 05th 2003
5
RE: Great post.
Mar 05th 2003
6
RE: My Experience with some Jewish Holocaust Survivors
Mar 05th 2003
7
RE: My Experience with some Jewish Holocaust Survivors
Mar 05th 2003
8
I've been to the Montreal one as well
Mar 05th 2003
9
      RE: I've been to the Montreal one as well
Mar 05th 2003
10
The Holocaust
Mar 05th 2003
11
RE: The Holocaust
Mar 05th 2003
12
RE: The Holocaust
Mar 05th 2003
16
      Amen to that
Mar 06th 2003
23
           RE: Amen to that
Mar 06th 2003
24
                RE: Amen to that
Mar 06th 2003
26
                RE: Amen to that
Mar 06th 2003
27
                     RE: Amen to that
Mar 07th 2003
29
                          RE: Amen to that
Mar 07th 2003
32
                go see the movie Max
Mar 07th 2003
43
RE: The Holocaust
Mar 05th 2003
14
RE: The Holocaust
Mar 06th 2003
20
      "misleading"?
Mar 07th 2003
48
RE: The Holocaust
Mar 06th 2003
17
      maybe so, but no one's listening
Mar 07th 2003
31
Thanks for sharing
Mar 05th 2003
13
RE: Thanks for sharing
Mar 05th 2003
15
RE: Thanks for sharing
Mar 06th 2003
18
      true.
Mar 07th 2003
35
RE: Thanks for sharing
Mar 07th 2003
36
RE: My Experience with some Jewish Holocaust Survivors
Mar 06th 2003
19
RE: My Experience with some Jewish Holocaust Survivors
Mar 06th 2003
21
      RE: My Experience with some Jewish Holocaust Survivors
Mar 06th 2003
22
           RE: My Experience with some Jewish Holocaust Survivors
Mar 06th 2003
25
                Up!!
Mar 06th 2003
28
                WORD UP!
Mar 07th 2003
40
they are important people
Mar 07th 2003
30
RE: they are important people
Mar 07th 2003
33
      i know that. but still
Mar 07th 2003
34
      RE: i know that. but still
Mar 07th 2003
37
      RE: they are important people
Mar 07th 2003
44
it hits close to home with me
Mar 07th 2003
38
very sad
Mar 07th 2003
39
well said
Mar 07th 2003
41
ditto n/m
Mar 07th 2003
42
RE: very sad
Mar 07th 2003
45
RE: very sad
Mar 07th 2003
47
thanks for sharing this with us..
Mar 07th 2003
46
.
Mar 13th 2003
49

KaySun
Member since Feb 25th 2003
8 posts
Wed Mar-05-03 02:01 PM

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1. "RE: My Experience with some Jewish Holocaust Survivors"
In response to Reply # 0


          

the black holocaust,why does everyone shut up when it comes to that??!HMMM..,MAYBE CUS ITS STILL GOING ON,WAKE UP YALL

Essence~

  

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Surazal
Member since Oct 11th 2002
677 posts
Wed Mar-05-03 02:11 PM

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2. "RE: My Experience with some Jewish Holocaust Survivors"
In response to Reply # 1


          

ROFL

;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

"There is nothing more painful to me at this stage in my life than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery. Then look around and see someone white and feel relieved."
-Jesse Jackso

  

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Abdul Malik Muhammad
Member since Sep 25th 2002
132 posts
Wed Mar-05-03 02:18 PM

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3. "RE: My Experience with some Jewish Holocaust Survivors"
In response to Reply # 1


          

>the black holocaust,why does everyone shut up when it comes
>to that??!HMMM..,MAYBE CUS ITS STILL GOING ON,WAKE UP YALL

You need to look both ways Dude I mean really. Im a Muslim and I know what the Jews did to Palestine. But you cant say it doesnt matter at all. Black, white anything its still wrong

"قل هو الله احد"

Say he Allah is 1 - this doesn't include 5%ers

  

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dhalgren718
Member since Jun 20th 2002
16992 posts
Wed Mar-05-03 02:27 PM

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4. "Thank you for the post..."
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

... it's informative. And appreciated.

http://50yearsfromnow.blogspot.com
MONGO IS A RACIST PIECE OF SHIT.

  

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takinthecoltrane
Member since Oct 27th 2002
1958 posts
Wed Mar-05-03 02:32 PM

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5. "Great post."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Undoubtedly one of the worst tragedies in the history of the world...

"There's a lot you can do with a giant four foot dried, curling, boomerang seed pod from the Botang Tree that grows only in Indonesia."
-Tom Waits

"It's not about a salary it's all about reality."
-KRS-One

"Me being wack is like naps on Kojack."
-RZA

"The revolution will not be apologized for."
-Aesop Rock

"Came to save the game like a memory card."
-MF Doom

  

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Abdul Malik Muhammad
Member since Sep 25th 2002
132 posts
Wed Mar-05-03 02:55 PM

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6. "RE: Great post."
In response to Reply # 5
Wed Mar-05-03 02:56 PM

          

>Undoubtedly one of the worst tragedies in the history of the
>world...
>
It sure is, very sad. Im glad I got to meet these people. This is the last Generation of them. Remember these events happened over 60 years ago

"قل هو الله احد"

Say he Allah is 1 - this doesn't include 5%ers

  

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jumanji3000
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3837 posts
Wed Mar-05-03 04:08 PM

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7. "RE: My Experience with some Jewish Holocaust Survivors"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I've read a lot about the Holocaust, been to the DC Holocaust museum and the Montreal one, as well as Yad Vashem (the big museum in Israel), but no matter how much you read you just can't understand the Holocaust if you don't hear the stories of the survivors. I just feel bad that my kids won't have that same opportunity and all they'll have will be the books and museums.

=====================================
c.i.a.
catalysts in action
Amen, hunuh, jumanji3000

"George W. Bush is the Diet Sprite of Evil: transparent, bubbly, with a weird sour aftertaste."
-OKP dhalgren718

The latest and greatest in underground hip-hop from the States and Canada:
www.hiphopcanada.com


משה גידון בן יעקב עיסר

  

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Abdul Malik Muhammad
Member since Sep 25th 2002
132 posts
Wed Mar-05-03 04:17 PM

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8. "RE: My Experience with some Jewish Holocaust Survivors"
In response to Reply # 7


          

>I've read a lot about the Holocaust, been to the DC
>Holocaust museum and the Montreal one, as well as Yad Vashem
>(the big museum in Israel), but no matter how much you read
>you just can't understand the Holocaust if you don't hear
>the stories of the survivors. I just feel bad that my kids
>won't have that same opportunity and all they'll have will
>be the books and museums.
>
Exactly im glad I got the oppertunity to see it now I can tell my kids of this. God willing at the end of this month im going to DC to the Museum to check it out. And the 3 survivors will be there with me.

"قل هو الله احد"

Say he Allah is 1 - this doesn't include 5%ers

  

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raool
Member since Jul 10th 2002
12355 posts
Wed Mar-05-03 05:56 PM

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9. "I've been to the Montreal one as well"
In response to Reply # 7


          

I was lucky to meet a survivor as well there.
It's not about who suffered more.
The Holocaust is just an example of everything is what is horrible in mankind.
It's mind-gobbling to see that this happenned less than 70 years ago in supposedly a "modern"" country.














I smoke, I snort, I've killed and I've robbed, I'm a man - 10 yr-old Steak-n-Fries in City of God

  

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jumanji3000
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Wed Mar-05-03 06:11 PM

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10. "RE: I've been to the Montreal one as well"
In response to Reply # 9


          

First off, the Montreal one, while very informative, is nothing compared to Yad Vashem or the DC one. Hours after leaving Yad Vashem I was still digesting all that information trying to fathom how so much horrible stuff could have happened.

>It's mind-gobbling to see that this happenned less than 70
>years ago in supposedly a "modern"" country.

Exactly. Germany was supposed to be one of the most cultured countries at that time. As a sidenote, it's funny how Hitler blamed the economic problems on Jews, when in reality the Jews were contributing a great deal to the economy, as well as the German culture.

=====================================
c.i.a.
catalysts in action
Amen, hunuh, jumanji3000

"George W. Bush is the Diet Sprite of Evil: transparent, bubbly, with a weird sour aftertaste."
-OKP dhalgren718

The latest and greatest in underground hip-hop from the States and Canada:
www.hiphopcanada.com


משה גידון בן יעקב עיסר

  

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Eli_B
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2440 posts
Wed Mar-05-03 09:17 PM

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11. "The Holocaust"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

The Holocaust was a terrible, terrible tragedy committed by a deranged man. However, maybe when all the Holocaust survivors are no longer living, people will stop their evil exploitation of the Holocaust for political purposes and to hold people hostage to guilt in a way to unconditionally support the sins of the descendants of Holocaust survivors.

"The devil crept into
heaven/God overslept on
the seventh/the New World
Order was born on
September 11th" - Immortal
Technique

  

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Horla
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Wed Mar-05-03 09:49 PM

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12. "RE: The Holocaust"
In response to Reply # 11


          

Evil explpoitation? u talking about Zionism? Ariel Sharon?
Share the knowlegde, I haven't got a clue what u talking about.

"What u think of me is none of my business" -D.N.A

  

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Eli_B
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Wed Mar-05-03 11:08 PM

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16. "RE: The Holocaust"
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

>Evil explpoitation? u talking about Zionism? Ariel Sharon?
>Share the knowlegde, I haven't got a clue what u talking
>about.

Pro-Israelis, Zionist Jews or non-Jews who unquestionably support Israel and try to blind anyone from the atrocities committed against the Palestinians by saying, "Never again!" while it is being committed again and again, not just to the Palestinians, but to Iraqis, Chechnyans, in Bosnia/the former Yugoslavia, it happened in Rwanda, and even before the Jewish holocaust, there was the Armenian holocaust, and the African holocaust (slave trade), the Native (North and South) American holocaust, but we only mean, "Never Again" for Jews. How about "Never Again" for everybody?

"The devil crept into
heaven/God overslept on
the seventh/the New World
Order was born on
September 11th" - Immortal
Technique

  

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Cre8
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Thu Mar-06-03 12:52 PM

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23. "Amen to that"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

It's sad no matter how you look at it, but I can't help but to question how the rich Jews and those in politics(there had to at least been a handful) weren't able to see the potential danger of Hitler, especially considering he was threatening folks for votes. Definately Bush is a clone of that thug, but even Americans are protesting against this dude, how is it that the higher up of the Jewish community where not able to do the same and had they at all before the whitearm bands w/ the star of David?
I wish I could have talked with one of those people, cause a lot of times it seems like the whole story isn't told, its too Black and White.

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raool
Member since Jul 10th 2002
12355 posts
Thu Mar-06-03 01:02 PM

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24. "RE: Amen to that"
In response to Reply # 23


          

well, the elite couldn't believe it because Germany was so cultured at that time and they thought they they were an integral part of the society. They thought it wouldn't happen to them since they had businesses, friends in high circles, they were German!
I don't recall the details but when they were persecuted in Russia and Poland earlier, many moved to Germany who protected them.

There's no need to look for some conspiracy of any sort











I smoke, I snort, I've killed and I've robbed, I'm a man - 10 yr-old Steak-n-Fries in City of God

  

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Cre8
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Thu Mar-06-03 01:22 PM

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26. "RE: Amen to that"
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

not looking for any conspiracy, but to think that they TRUSTED these people simply based on them being 'cultured'? Its SAD.
Honestly I believe in some sense the Jews admired the Germans way too damn much, and in some sense desired to be 'like' them.
Along the lines of slavery, the holocaust could be nick-named one of THE BIGGEST BACK STABBINGS IN HISTORY.

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raool
Member since Jul 10th 2002
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Thu Mar-06-03 01:28 PM

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27. "RE: Amen to that"
In response to Reply # 26


          


You got a point there because soome of them were very assimilated and considered themselves German since they were there for genereations. Some were converted and had married gentiles.


It's kinda what happened between the Tutsis and the Hutus. All of a sudden, neighbours, friends, and even wives and husbands turn agaisnt each other.











I smoke, I snort, I've killed and I've robbed, I'm a man - 10 yr-old Steak-n-Fries in City of God

  

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azev315
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Fri Mar-07-03 03:37 AM

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29. "RE: Amen to that"
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

Some of the Jews were so assimilated into European culture that they didn't even know they were Jewish until an SS officer knocked on their door and dragged them to a concentration camp.

---------------------------
www.myspace.com/azev315

  

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Cre8
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32. "RE: Amen to that"
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

now thats sad. I think part of that 'Never Again' slogan should also go for Never Forgetting Who You Are, Never Forgetting Your People, Never Forgetting to Love Yourself.
It always has seemed to me that WesternCulture strives on having others adapt and adopt their way of life in hopes that others will shed their original culture. Does give easy mind control.

Food/Drink PlayersCookbook Info:
To help: L9 Health Clinic http://www.commongroundrelief.org/node/242
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Please submit your recipes to playerscookbook@yahoo.com or inbox and don't forget PHOTOS.

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Vette
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43. "go see the movie Max"
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

i have to say the film drags in certain parts, but it does take an interesting look at the German-Jew elite after World War I through the interaction between Jewish art dealer/World War I vet Max (John Cusack) and a young World War I vet/aspiring artist/politician Hitler (Noah Taylor). Taylor was amazing as the young Hitler - sickly, pitiful, and ultimately deranged.

__________________________________________

<--- Still reppin' the Bay
Life. Love. Music:
http://vettievette.wordpress.com
http://sistamatikdjs.wordpress.com

  

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dancnf00l
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Wed Mar-05-03 10:08 PM

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14. "RE: The Holocaust"
In response to Reply # 11


          

"The Holocaust was a terrible, terrible tragedy committed by a deranged man."

It wasn't just one man. Hitler did not create anti-semitism--he took advantage of it.


  

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Quest4Knowledge
Member since Jun 20th 2002
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Thu Mar-06-03 08:34 AM

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20. "RE: The Holocaust"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

>It wasn't just one man. Hitler did not create
>anti-semitism--he took advantage of it.

I'd just like to note the exploitative and misleading use of the phrase "anti-semitic" so (hopefully) you could refrain from using it any further.





Peace and Love
-Ren



---
In memory of my sig..

  

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Stopheles
Member since Sep 04th 2002
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Fri Mar-07-03 03:35 PM

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48. ""misleading"?"
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

Um, I think it's perfectly fair to mention anti-Semitism when you're talking about the fucking murder of six million Jews over the course of a seven-year operation. That was the manifestation of hundreds of years' worth of anti-Semitism, the same way that a lynching is the product of hundreds of years' worth of racism in the Americas.

------
"Saying rap is not work is ludicrous...whoever said it must be new to this..."

www.soundclick.com/oldscratch

  

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Ulysses S Grant
Member since Nov 19th 2002
520 posts
Thu Mar-06-03 04:58 AM

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17. "RE: The Holocaust"
In response to Reply # 11


          

>However, maybe when all the Holocaust
>survivors are no longer living, people will stop their evil
>exploitation of the Holocaust for political purposes and to
>hold people hostage to guilt

Why would you think that would happen? There are no survivors of the Slave Trade left, but still people purpotrate their evil exploitation of it for political purposes and to hold people hostage to guilt.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


I am General Ulysses S Grant and you are a fucking phony

  

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LexM
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Fri Mar-07-03 04:19 AM

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31. "maybe so, but no one's listening"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

everyone listened to them.

possibly because it was so recent, relatively speaking.

but....

well. never mind.

it's just more complex than that.

_____________________________
...if you want me, just ask...

here's your alternatives....
1. reevaluate ALL existing wmd treaties and force compliance across the board. make us re-sign the treaty dubya backed out of. be held liable by the world court. etc. act like we share the planet w/ others
2. let the inspectors work.
3. insure that, in exchange for continued disarmament, the sanctions are lifted from the iraqi people. create infrastructure.
4. with a delegation of iraqi & other mideast factions, discuss alternatives to current governmental structures IN KEEPING WITH their cultural integrity and sovreignty
5. disarm israel. what's good for the goose...
6. finish what we started in afghanistan (not like i agree w/ that either, really, but...) and truly work to restabilize the country
7. give more attention to alternative energy sources.
(c) me

www.poetsagainstthewar.org



"i think you're a witch" ~utamaroho

~~~~
http://omidele.blogspot.com/
http://rahareiki.tumblr.com/
http://seatofbliss.blogspot.com/

  

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dancnf00l
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Wed Mar-05-03 10:03 PM

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13. "Thanks for sharing"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I must admit I was a little worried at the end you were going to take the opportunity to say something anti-zionist. (I guess that's what Eli-B is for). I was pleased to see you didn't, and I appreciate your sincere retelling of their stories. I've been blessed to meet holocaust survivors too, and I'm sad my kids won't have that chance. Never Forget.

  

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Eli_B
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Wed Mar-05-03 11:04 PM

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15. "RE: Thanks for sharing"
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

>I must admit I was a little worried at the end you were
>going to take the opportunity to say something anti-zionist.
>(I guess that's what Eli-B is for).

"And you know this, maaan!" -Me (and Chris Tucker)

"The devil crept into
heaven/God overslept on
the seventh/the New World
Order was born on
September 11th" - Immortal
Technique

  

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nyc_rootsfan
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Thu Mar-06-03 06:22 AM

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18. "RE: Thanks for sharing"
In response to Reply # 15


          

it was a diabolical opening to this modern era we live in , there was a huge industrial infrasructure supporting it.

anyway it wasnt just jews as we all know, poles, turks, homosexuals, any one who resisted, clearly the jews were scapegoated though..this was nothing new in europe though, since the middle ages weve seen this.
but you know some zionists also worked with the nazis.

and the moral impact of this event is tarnished every day by the descendants of the holocaust survivors creating a holocaust of their own.

and yes it is certainly spun for political and sympathy reasons, the founders of israel in the 50s knew this and even spoke about it.


stalin killed 20 million ukranians
mao killed up to 50 million chinese
the us..who knows between africans and natives..im guess upwards of 100 million..

yet no one can even use the word holocaust without the ADL jumping up, guess they dont want anyone to steal the limelight.

history is a slaughter bench. makes you realize how nice we have it..



  

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Federisco
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Fri Mar-07-03 08:13 AM

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35. "true."
In response to Reply # 18
Fri Mar-07-03 08:15 AM

  

          

And concerning the non-jews in concentration camps, that is also true. Those who opposed the war (at least in certain countries, such as mine, norway) would also often be sent to the concentration camps. The grandfather of some friends in my neighbourhood, a norwegian, was one of the survivors of auswitch(sp). The norwegian government during the war was taken over by a nazi puppet, Quizling, who both then and now was/is the most hated character in norwegian political history.. (actually today, "quizling" is officially synonymous with "betrayor"). The government, run by that man, made sure also gipsys (rom) and tater people (romani) were sent to the concentration camps in germany.

░▒▓█▌Ļ♥▐█▓▒░

proud okayphotographer: http://www.okayplayer.com/okayphotographers/

"Most of our assumptions have outlived their uselessness." ó Marshall McLuhan

  

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Abdul Malik Muhammad
Member since Sep 25th 2002
132 posts
Fri Mar-07-03 09:07 AM

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36. "RE: Thanks for sharing"
In response to Reply # 13


          

Your welcome man. It was nice to do it.

"قل هو الله احد"

Say he Allah is 1 - this doesn't include 5%ers

  

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synonomous
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Thu Mar-06-03 08:26 AM

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19. "RE: My Experience with some Jewish Holocaust Survivors"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

i had the opportunity to hear elie weisel speak, as well as 2 other survivorst, it was insane. also, i visited dachau when i was in germany, and the experience was one of the most sobering experiences of my life.

you could dream a little dream or you could live a little dream i'd rather live it, cuz dreamers always chase but never get it.

http://www.phishhook.com/lists/okplayer who wants to trade?
aim: okplayer greg
email: wtc41@yahoo.com

fill up your mind with all it can know
don't forget that your body will let it all go



aim: okplayer greg

  

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Abdul Malik Muhammad
Member since Sep 25th 2002
132 posts
Thu Mar-06-03 12:12 PM

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21. "RE: My Experience with some Jewish Holocaust Survivors"
In response to Reply # 19


          

Well I see this went back into race. Damn cant yall just say its pretty sad?

"قل هو الله احد"

Say he Allah is 1 - this doesn't include 5%ers

  

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synonomous
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Thu Mar-06-03 12:23 PM

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22. "RE: My Experience with some Jewish Holocaust Survivors"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

> Well I see this went back into race. Damn cant yall just
>say its pretty sad?

huh? i didn't say anything related to races. i agree, it was a damn terrible thing that happened.

you could dream a little dream or you could live a little dream i'd rather live it, cuz dreamers always chase but never get it.

http://www.phishhook.com/lists/okplayer who wants to trade?
aim: okplayer greg
email: wtc41@yahoo.com

fill up your mind with all it can know
don't forget that your body will let it all go



aim: okplayer greg

  

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jumanji3000
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Thu Mar-06-03 01:08 PM

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25. "RE: My Experience with some Jewish Holocaust Survivors"
In response to Reply # 22


          

I think he was talking about the thread in general.

Also if anybody wants a very interesting survivor story, pick up the book The Avengers by Rich Cohen. Very, very interesrting. It's not your typical survivor story because it's about those Jews that fought back when the Germans came to take the Jews away or to liquidate the ghetto. The author is related to one of the main characters, so it's pretty much all first-hand information. Highly recommended book. It shows the other side of the Holocaust that we rarely ever get to see.

=====================================
c.i.a.
catalysts in action
Amen, hunuh, jumanji3000

"George W. Bush is the Diet Sprite of Evil: transparent, bubbly, with a weird sour aftertaste."
-OKP dhalgren718

The latest and greatest in underground hip-hop from the States and Canada:
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משה גידון בן יעקב עיסר

  

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jumanji3000
Charter member
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Thu Mar-06-03 06:25 PM

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28. "Up!!"
In response to Reply # 25


          

>Also if anybody wants a very interesting survivor story,
>pick up the book The Avengers by Rich Cohen. Very, very
>interesrting. It's not your typical survivor story because
>it's about those Jews that fought back when the Germans came
>to take the Jews away or to liquidate the ghetto. The
>author is related to one of the main characters, so it's
>pretty much all first-hand information. Highly recommended
>book. It shows the other side of the Holocaust that we
>rarely ever get to see.

=====================================
c.i.a.
catalysts in action
Amen, hunuh, jumanji3000

"George W. Bush is the Diet Sprite of Evil: transparent, bubbly, with a weird sour aftertaste."
-OKP dhalgren718

The latest and greatest in underground hip-hop from the States and Canada:
www.hiphopcanada.com


משה גידון בן יעקב עיסר

  

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dhalgren718
Member since Jun 20th 2002
16992 posts
Fri Mar-07-03 11:59 AM

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40. "WORD UP!"
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

EXCELLENT and weird book... Cohen's a pretty good author... also wrote a book on Murder Inc, which was a largely Jewish organization... sometimes a little rhetorical, but overall, good author.

http://50yearsfromnow.blogspot.com
MONGO IS A RACIST PIECE OF SHIT.

  

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LexM
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28342 posts
Fri Mar-07-03 04:14 AM

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30. "they are important people"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

it's good that they are around and still telling their stories.

they need to be heard.


_____________________________
...if you want me, just ask...

here's your alternatives....
1. reevaluate ALL existing wmd treaties and force compliance across the board. make us re-sign the treaty dubya backed out of. be held liable by the world court. etc. act like we share the planet w/ others
2. let the inspectors work.
3. insure that, in exchange for continued disarmament, the sanctions are lifted from the iraqi people. create infrastructure.
4. with a delegation of iraqi & other mideast factions, discuss alternatives to current governmental structures IN KEEPING WITH their cultural integrity and sovreignty
5. disarm israel. what's good for the goose...
6. finish what we started in afghanistan (not like i agree w/ that either, really, but...) and truly work to restabilize the country
7. give more attention to alternative energy sources.
(c) me

www.poetsagainstthewar.org



"i think you're a witch" ~utamaroho

~~~~
http://omidele.blogspot.com/
http://rahareiki.tumblr.com/
http://seatofbliss.blogspot.com/

  

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Sopdet
Charter member
741 posts
Fri Mar-07-03 06:10 AM

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33. "RE: they are important people"
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

Read a book by a jew called the Holocaust industry. You will see how the jews milk the holocaust for what it is worth. There asre many ethnic groups that went through holocausts. Look at the belgium Congo for instance,king leopold killed over 6.5 million Congolese,and this is well documented.

They also killed gypsies,communist,jehova's witness,and even people in oposition to the holocaust. Many rich jews likew the rothchilds and others helped out Hitler and the SS,kill their own breadren.

One of my favoriet Yiddish proverbs

With money in your pocket, you are wise and you are handsome and you sing well too


  

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LexM
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28342 posts
Fri Mar-07-03 06:32 AM

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34. "i know that. but still"
In response to Reply # 33
Fri Mar-07-03 06:33 AM

  

          

it's important that this kind of suffering is recognized, discussed, and prevented in the future.

now, if we could only do the same when we speak for the african diaspora....

but i didn't want to turn this post/my reply into that.

and yes, people will milk anything. but they have a right to discuss and heal from their collective suffering, just as we do.

at least they've been able to create a safe space in which to do it. i admire them for keeping their language/cultures/traditions alive.

_____________________________
...if you want me, just ask...

here's your alternatives....
1. reevaluate ALL existing wmd treaties and force compliance across the board. make us re-sign the treaty dubya backed out of. be held liable by the world court. etc. act like we share the planet w/ others
2. let the inspectors work.
3. insure that, in exchange for continued disarmament, the sanctions are lifted from the iraqi people. create infrastructure.
4. with a delegation of iraqi & other mideast factions, discuss alternatives to current governmental structures IN KEEPING WITH their cultural integrity and sovreignty
5. disarm israel. what's good for the goose...
6. finish what we started in afghanistan (not like i agree w/ that either, really, but...) and truly work to restabilize the country
7. give more attention to alternative energy sources.
(c) me

www.poetsagainstthewar.org



"i think you're a witch" ~utamaroho

~~~~
http://omidele.blogspot.com/
http://rahareiki.tumblr.com/
http://seatofbliss.blogspot.com/

  

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sean2
Member since Dec 13th 2002
165 posts
Fri Mar-07-03 09:42 AM

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37. "RE: i know that. but still"
In response to Reply # 34


          

i used to be a tour guide at the museum of tolerance here in los angeles (which despite the title is pretty much a hollocaust museum) and i talked to survivors on a regular basis, phenomenal people! I would just sit and think what it would be like to live through that inhumanity, just the fact that they could function normally was amazing, especially when you consider how many veterans have such a hard time readjusting to society after witnessing the dark side of humanity!

when you start to study the hollocaust its really hard to get a grasp on it enormity! i mean the systematic slaughter of human beings is so disturbing.....i mean just the fact that people sat around and had discussions on the most efficient methods to kill millions of people is disturbing!

now i agree there definately is a hollocaust industry, and i don't think jews neccesarily have the market covered! i think a lot of people of various backgrounds use the hollocaust as a way to make money, which is truely sad! at the museum of tolerance for instance it always disturbed me that the museum used its high moral standing in the community to make political statements condeming palestineans, its not that they had a opinion i disagreed with it was the fact that they were capitalizing on peoples revrence for the positive work they were doing to make a political point. The dark side of the "hollocaust industry" (and this industry should be seperated from the 1000's of quality institutions and individuals that study the hollocaust without profit as a motivation!) is that they spend a lot of energy discounting the suffering of other peoples (weather it be native americans, african slaves, victims of stalins oppression, rwanda, bosnia etc etc), while at the same time ignoring the millions of "other" victims of the hollocaust. its really sad that there are people out there that use the suffering of human beings to make a buck.

my view of the hollocaust (or any example of genocide)is that we should learn the lessons to stop it happening again! and again there are many organizations that make the connections between the hollocaust and other examples of suffering, and this is the way it should be, no one group has a monopoly on suffering!

  

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Pinko_Panther
Member since Dec 11th 2002
11808 posts
Fri Mar-07-03 01:43 PM

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44. "RE: they are important people"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

The Holocaust Industry is written by a wonderful anti-zionist Jew by the name of Norman Finkelstein. Great writer, he has also recently written a book called Image and Reality of the Israel Palestine Conflict. Check it out.

********************************************
"If you think you're too small to make a difference, try sleeping in a closed room with a mosquito."

  

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dgonsh
Member since Aug 14th 2002
10681 posts
Fri Mar-07-03 11:05 AM

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38. "it hits close to home with me"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

this is a topic very close to me, as my grandfather lost eight brothers and sisters in the holocaust. he met my grandmother in the beginning of the war and they got married quickly and ran off to siberia in russia by the early forties. he was the only one of his family to survive. they had my uncle a year later or so, and then moved to montreal to start fresh. my granparents are jewish but have always had some questions about the almighty after the holocaust. this is because they could not understand how all bad things happen for a reason when it came to this. they questioned how god could allow such a tragedy to occur. unfortunately, my grandfather passed away in june at the age of ninety-four, amazingly just to old age, not cancer, as most people you hear are dying from these days.

it is important, rather, its is imparitive that we never froget what happened in europe and all over the world at that time. it proves once again how deeply ignorance is a factor still in this day in age. it happened with slavery, and with the holocaust, and both were caused by human ignorance, not by outbreaks of diseases. its also important to remember thatnot only did 6 million jews die, but another five million sivillians of other races and colours died, and another twenty million souldiers died. simply disgusting.

peace, dgonsh

"anytime i state an opinion i state it's my opinion, and i back up why i stated the statement (time willing). so please folks you got to understand that it's not a good feeling to read a i'm not on his nuts comment. if i need some attention for my nuts i'll call a jawn." -Quest



********************************************************************




"I *always* quote myself. I'm the only reliable source on *most* subjects" - OKP's First Lady of Knowledge, Janey

  

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sevencents
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1710 posts
Fri Mar-07-03 11:32 AM

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39. "very sad"
In response to Reply # 0


          

First off, I want to thank Abdul Malik Muhammad for sharing his experiences on the boards.

But I must say that I am deeply saddened by what I've been reading in these posts. For starters, hearing about the holocaust is especially emmotional and moving when it's told through personal stories. But what saddend me more than hearing these people's accounts of the holocaust was how people decided to transform the theme of this post for their own agenda..

I love these boards here because it allows anyone to have a voice to express their beliefs/opinions, but to use someone else's post to change the tone and turn it into something negative is straight up disrespectfull. The person who wrote this post wanted to share his feelings of meeting and hearing the stories of hollocaust survivors, and in return people turned this into a jewish bashing post. I wonder if people actually read his post and read these people's stories. If they did and still felt that it was okay to make statements that jews have used the hollocaust to benefit themselves or discredit the hollocaust because of countless other mass murders and injsutices of the world, then I am deeply saddend at the level of hate in people's hearts on these boards.


  

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dgonsh
Member since Aug 14th 2002
10681 posts
Fri Mar-07-03 12:16 PM

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41. "well said"
In response to Reply # 39


  

          



peace, dgonsh

"anytime i state an opinion i state it's my opinion, and i back up why i stated the statement (time willing). so please folks you got to understand that it's not a good feeling to read a i'm not on his nuts comment. if i need some attention for my nuts i'll call a jawn." -Quest



********************************************************************




"I *always* quote myself. I'm the only reliable source on *most* subjects" - OKP's First Lady of Knowledge, Janey

  

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Vette
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9685 posts
Fri Mar-07-03 12:46 PM

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42. "ditto n/m"
In response to Reply # 39


  

          

.

__________________________________________

<--- Still reppin' the Bay
Life. Love. Music:
http://vettievette.wordpress.com
http://sistamatikdjs.wordpress.com

  

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Pinko_Panther
Member since Dec 11th 2002
11808 posts
Fri Mar-07-03 01:49 PM

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45. "RE: very sad"
In response to Reply # 39


  

          

Read The Holocaust Industry it is a great book written by a wonderful anti-zionist Jew by the name of Norman Finkelstein. Great writer, he has also recently written a book called Image and Reality of the Israel Palestine Conflict. Check it out.

********************************************
"If you think you're too small to make a difference, try sleeping in a closed room with a mosquito."

  

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dancnf00l
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Fri Mar-07-03 03:30 PM

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47. "RE: very sad"
In response to Reply # 39


          

I agree. Even if everything that's been said is true--there's a different time and place for that. Even if the "jew-bashing" is true, that doesn't make it appropriate. It's like saying something bad about someone at their own funeral. He may have been a jerk, but you can talk about it later.

  

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Mynoriti
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Fri Mar-07-03 03:20 PM

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46. "thanks for sharing this with us.."
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Mar-07-03 03:43 PM

  

          

My great grandparents and grandmother were living in Austria at the time of the Holocaust when Hitler marched into Vienna. My grandmother (who was 11 at the time) told me she came out of school one day and the entire street was filled with Nazi flags. Through a series of events they wound up in Italy. I suppose you can consider them very fortunate because my great grandfather was placed in an Italian camp. The Italian camps were nothing like German and Polish camps in their treatment of prisoners. He was given a small amount of allowance, daily meals and was permitted to leave everyday provided he return at a determined time. My great grandmother was raised Catholic and converted when she married my great grandfather and didnít "appear" Jewish so she was basically free to go about her business. I cant remember the exact sequence of events that followed (my grandmother and I haven't discussed this lately and its still somewhat painful for her to talk about) but my great grandfather was very close to being sent to Auschwitz but through a sequence of events (and some good fortune) were able to flee to America.

With the exception of his brothers, my great grandfather's family all died as a result of concentration camps (and some to suicide)

I still have both my great grandparentís passports (1939-1941) complete with Third Reich symbols on the covers and stamped inside. It starts with Poland and Germany, other stamps inside include Italy, Portugal, Spain, and Panama (all before coming to America)

Again thank you for sharing your experience and having an open mind. I hope some of the negativity that surfaced in this post does not discourage you from posting your experiences in the future. There's a time and a place for everything and I hope the people who could have easily started a new thread to discuss Israel's unfair and inexcusable treatment of Palestine have or will at least take the time to read the experiences of those 3 human beings which were no doubt painful to share

Peace


  

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poetx
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Thu Mar-13-03 07:51 PM

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49. "."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

peace & blessings,

x.

"I'm on the Zoloft to keep from killing y'all." - Iron Mike

peace & blessings,

x.

www.twitter.com/poetx

=========================================
I'm an advocate for working smarter, not harder. If you just
focus on working hard you end up making someone else rich and
not having much to show for it. (c) mad

  

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