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Subject: "Lets confirm/debunk the 'Kobe is a better SCORER than MJ" myth" This topic is locked.
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melmag
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18469 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 11:12 AM

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"Lets confirm/debunk the 'Kobe is a better SCORER than MJ" myth"


  

          

lol, Kobestanis wont let up!

i mean, we've already put the asinine "Kobe just as good/better than MJ" myth to pasture.. now Kobe fanboys are saying he's a better scorer

exactly what aspect of his scoring repetoire is better than MJ's?




  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
thinly veiled "i want a double platinum post" post
Jul 14th 2009
1
^^^ yeah
Jul 14th 2009
5
TRIPLE PLAT BITCH
Jul 20th 2009
300
      diamond!
Jul 28th 2009
500
           WE DID IT!
Jul 28th 2009
503
                all thanks to post 419
Jul 29th 2009
524
                     argurably one of the greatest displays of madness in OKS history
Jul 30th 2009
530
                          RE: argurably one of the greatest displays of madness in OKS history
Jul 30th 2009
533
                               iono, the steam from the post kept fogging up my screen
Jul 30th 2009
534
                                    RE: iono, the steam from the post kept fogging up my screen
Jul 30th 2009
536
i'm curious what the definition of 'scoring' is when ppl say this
Jul 14th 2009
2
Kobe is a far, far, far, better pure shooter.
Jul 14th 2009
3
RE: Kobe is a far, far, far, better pure shooter.
Jul 14th 2009
4
i don't even get this to be honest
Jul 14th 2009
7
from outside, yes, midrange, eh, mike better
Jul 14th 2009
12
yeah, Bean is a lil better from 3 but that's about it
Jul 14th 2009
16
      LOL @ "Kobe's better from 3" like its a throw in point
Jul 14th 2009
38
           you've seen better days
Jul 14th 2009
48
           LOL. Again - niggas don't know the facts.
Jul 14th 2009
53
                RE: LOL. Again - niggas don't know the facts.
Jul 14th 2009
73
           did you ignore my avi? - LOL
Jul 15th 2009
167
a pure shooter that can't shoot 50% from the field? nah...
Jul 16th 2009
212
I seen both at their best and I think Kobe is a better shooter
Jul 14th 2009
6
When done with this post, email the crew at NBA.TV
Jul 14th 2009
8
apparently, it's "purity"
Jul 14th 2009
9
lmao. this is one of the best "pure posts"
Jul 14th 2009
10
^^^^^^ I NEED TO HEAR AVERY JOHNSON READ THIS REPLY LMAO
Jul 14th 2009
15
excellent reply, would read again
Jul 18th 2009
266
      looking back, i really should have quit while ahead with this one
Jul 18th 2009
270
Kobe is a better shooter and has more range, but Jordan utilized his...
Jul 14th 2009
11
i can kinda get this, but one thing that bothers me
Jul 14th 2009
13
simply put: MJ just had bettter shot selection
Jul 14th 2009
17
Kobe routinely allows his man to recover when he catches off the ball
Jul 15th 2009
208
this is just flat out wrong....
Jul 14th 2009
21
      !!!!!!!!!!!
Jul 14th 2009
22
      re-read what i wrote homie. i said JORDAN has a better post up game.
Jul 14th 2009
23
           how so?
Jul 14th 2009
26
                really? i've always seen Kobe listed at 6'7"
Jul 14th 2009
29
LMAO....let's just keep it simple:
Jul 14th 2009
14
agree with most...but kobe is a better freethrow shooter.
Jul 14th 2009
34
not to nit pick but
Jul 14th 2009
37
Seriously. How do niggas say Jordan was better mid-range?
Jul 14th 2009
41
Yeah and when we talk about midrange
Jul 14th 2009
43
      yall love to complicate things
Jul 14th 2009
58
      I'm not complicating anything. I'm pretty clear actually
Jul 14th 2009
70
      "complicated" = more than 3rd grade reading level to these kids.
Jul 14th 2009
107
      and that's the bottom line (c) stone cold
Jul 16th 2009
211
      If you take away 3pt shots from the equation
Jul 14th 2009
65
           *record scratch*
Jul 14th 2009
67
                It's funny cuz Lebron has no trouble getting in the lane most nights
Jul 14th 2009
86
                     Uh. Dumbass. Not all "long range shots" are three pointers.
Jul 14th 2009
98
                     Pleas COPPED!!!!!!
Jul 14th 2009
101
                     *moonwalks*
Jul 14th 2009
106
                          I KNOW he's the best athlete the NBA has seen in ages...
Jul 14th 2009
111
                               Uh. I want you to re-read your arguments.
Jul 14th 2009
114
                                    So LeBron only scores cuz he big?
Jul 14th 2009
120
                                         Yes, that exactly what I said.
Jul 14th 2009
126
                                              Word.
Jul 14th 2009
130
                     Ok Dumbass...prove that long range shooting is all of a sudden
Jul 14th 2009
121
                          Amazing. Considering there were better shooters during the Jordan era.
Jul 14th 2009
146
                     AI or tony parker either for that matter. that lane shit was a L in wait...
Jul 14th 2009
143
                          ^^^was waiting for that trip up with 5 africans behind him
Jul 14th 2009
144
                          LOL...you talkin about 6foot point guards...LOL...LOL
Jul 14th 2009
158
                               ^adjusting his claim again
Jul 15th 2009
165
                                    LOL - I talked about Lebron James.
Jul 15th 2009
168
                                         so lying. at least be honest
Jul 15th 2009
169
                                              LOL - still mad from yesterday, eh? Do better.
Jul 15th 2009
174
                                                   for the sake of those who don't bother clicking links:
Jul 15th 2009
176
                                                        RE: for the sake of those who don't bother clicking links:
Jul 15th 2009
180
                                                        LOL. You so mad, you just proved my point
Jul 15th 2009
181
                                                             lol. this has become a parady of a satire of a mock-up of a joke
Jul 15th 2009
183
                                                                  Apology accepted.
Jul 15th 2009
186
RE: not to nit pick but
Jul 14th 2009
51
      RE: not to nit pick but
Jul 14th 2009
76
FOH
Jul 17th 2009
231
*looks into camera and frowns @ tie for FT shooting*
Jul 19th 2009
277
I'm completely anti-Jordan...
Jul 14th 2009
18
I thought i'd never, ever, ever, say this:
Jul 14th 2009
19
explain what you mean tho..
Jul 14th 2009
20
It;s not even possible to do that really
Jul 14th 2009
25
^^got damn, and this is coming from a pistons fan^^
Jul 14th 2009
27
LOL @ this ninja with the cosign sneaky hate combo..
Jul 14th 2009
30
See, this is how I know I'm 1000% correct.
Jul 14th 2009
35
yes, it is...you JUST DID IT
Jul 19th 2009
279
DING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...
Jul 14th 2009
31
i dont know why you're surprised
Jul 14th 2009
32
      You're Kobestanasian, but you're 1000% correct.
Jul 14th 2009
33
      Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa, you're 100% wrong here.
Jul 14th 2009
52
           *DEAD* *DEAD* *DEAD*
Jul 14th 2009
55
           ahahahahahahaha.
Jul 14th 2009
93
      Dead on LB.....DEAD ON
Jul 14th 2009
36
      this post isn't about who's a better 3/pt shooter, it says" who is the b...
Jul 14th 2009
42
      WRONG!!!! NIGGAS don't know the BASIC FACTS!! HAHAHAH
Jul 14th 2009
49
           you mad?
Jul 14th 2009
56
                LMAO!!!! WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?!?!?! LMAO LMAO
Jul 14th 2009
60
      I think every poster knows this , most just won't admit it lol
Jul 15th 2009
209
i like how you're fair by saying confirm/debunk, but then say "myth"
Jul 14th 2009
24
RE: Lets confirm/debunk the 'Kobe is a better SCORER than MJ" myth
Jul 14th 2009
28
Uh. Kobe gets *none* of Jordan's treatment from the Refs.
Jul 14th 2009
39
      lol.
Jul 14th 2009
109
      no where near the treatment...which helps mikes shooting %
Jul 15th 2009
197
Oh, and a message to the "Hand-Check Police":
Jul 14th 2009
40
And there isn't or hasn't been 1 team in Bean's era whose defense
Jul 14th 2009
44
      LOL. Did Jordan face the Bad Boys every night for his whole career?
Jul 14th 2009
46
           you're the one who mentioned the Pistons 1st. (zone defense? really
Jul 14th 2009
50
                LOL. So now we're supposed to BLAME Kobe for playing with Shaq?
Jul 14th 2009
54
                     foh...this ain't about "blame" this is just pointing out a fact that can...
Jul 14th 2009
62
                     El, i got these box score links on auto-reply at this point lol
Jul 14th 2009
75
                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^LOLOLOLOLOL^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Jul 14th 2009
80
                          RE: El, i got these box score links on auto-reply at this point lol
Jul 14th 2009
81
                          *record scratch* - when was AI NBA Finals MVP?
Jul 14th 2009
88
                          RE: El, i got these box score links on auto-reply at this point lol
Jul 14th 2009
90
                          lol *SMH*
Jul 14th 2009
102
                               i love these moments
Jul 14th 2009
161
                               it hurts when i'm agreeing with idiots
Jul 15th 2009
184
                               ok, now lets look at the numbers:
Jul 17th 2009
222
                                    ^^^3 DAYS LATER = L ^^^
Jul 17th 2009
223
                                    I'm sorry but don't I have time to sit on a message board all day
Jul 17th 2009
224
                                         The fact that it took you 3 days to respond with nothing but pleas
Jul 17th 2009
245
                                    lol
Jul 17th 2009
228
                                         I was wrong about whether Jordan shot less than 50% in a series or
Jul 18th 2009
264
                          lmao
Jul 14th 2009
115
                          great work gumshoe.. - LOL
Jul 15th 2009
182
                     LMAO...
Jul 14th 2009
72
after watching both of them play or many years, i can say that face-up,
Jul 14th 2009
45
THANK YOU...that's exactly what i've been saying since 03
Jul 14th 2009
47
Maybe from 20 feet out
Jul 14th 2009
57
to the people copping pleas about kobe being a better 3 point shooter..
Jul 14th 2009
59
And its okay to ignore that the 3ball is more important in the zone era
Jul 14th 2009
61
lmao, niggaz talking about the luxury of a shortened 3 pt line and yet
Jul 14th 2009
66
so you're going to use a few clips to make your argument that Kobe is
Jul 14th 2009
69
and to you...
Jul 14th 2009
74
i got a clean as pure as Ivory...nothing less...nothing more
Jul 14th 2009
63
fun game, btw:
Jul 14th 2009
64
Here we go:
Jul 14th 2009
82
      i meant to say guess without checking, but that was still fun, right?
Jul 14th 2009
89
      So Cheesy also shoots better from 3, basically?
Jul 14th 2009
95
by this logic both lebron and wade are now better scorers than kobe
Jul 14th 2009
68
      but you just used some YOUTUBE clips to make your case that
Jul 14th 2009
71
      This coming from the guy who doesn't know the 3pt line distance.
Jul 14th 2009
77
      RE: This coming from the guy who doesn't know the 3pt line distance.
Jul 14th 2009
84
      actually i used youtube clips for one aspect, 3 point shooting
Jul 14th 2009
78
           Fam, I can make myself look like Ray Allen on Youtube..
Jul 14th 2009
92
                lol, you can make 30 foot threes in an nba game on youtube?
Jul 14th 2009
108
                     I may have a few that I can compile in a highlight reel LOL
Jul 14th 2009
                          have you been this bad a poster since you started?
Jul 14th 2009
141
      so you don't want to?
Jul 14th 2009
85
           LOL. That's one of the stupidest things I've ever seen in my life.
Jul 14th 2009
96
           LMFAO at you calling anything i said in this thread stupid
Jul 14th 2009
113
                Hey - don't hate me because I'm beautiful.
Jul 14th 2009
125
                     wow, you really spent some time thinking up some hot bullshit
Jul 14th 2009
134
                          LOL You're the statistical equivalent of a bad gymnast.
Jul 15th 2009
177
           so wait...and im just trying to follow your fool-proof logic here
Jul 14th 2009
129
                Hahaha...ETHER
Jul 14th 2009
133
                well, actually, believe it or not
Jul 14th 2009
137
                     lol
Jul 14th 2009
139
                          ^mad i'm being rational
Jul 14th 2009
140
And LMMFAO @ y'all trying to paint Kobe as a Dell Curry-type shooter
Jul 14th 2009
79
we're comparing him to MJ, not to dell curry
Jul 14th 2009
87
No, niggas are dismissing the diversity in Kobe's offensive game.
Jul 14th 2009
91
      You're the biggest gay here nm
Jul 14th 2009
94
           ^^Tutti Fruity
Jul 14th 2009
97
                Not mad, mostly amused by your stupidity and cockiness....
Jul 14th 2009
100
                     Did you just make reference to my cock? Back off, son.
Jul 14th 2009
103
                          Precisely!
Jul 14th 2009
104
                          lol. Actually you do
Jul 14th 2009
132
                               LOL. Its the internet. Why you're so sensiive about it, I don't know.
Jul 15th 2009
173
Nope, If you're not as explosive as MJ, you're just not explosive period
Jul 14th 2009
105
Make up your mind
Jul 14th 2009
110
      Uh. I can do two things at once, sparky.
Jul 14th 2009
112
      ^adopting and changing his points
Jul 14th 2009
116
      Hahahah...prove this fam
Jul 14th 2009
135
      there are lies and then there are DAMNED LIES
Jul 14th 2009
117
           lol yeah, i must admit auragin, this shit sounded real spm'ish
Jul 14th 2009
131
                Well ya'll know what i meant...if teams wanted to double
Jul 14th 2009
136
                nope. i remember the finals bitch
Jul 14th 2009
145
                     i agree for the most part..but
Jul 14th 2009
155
                     didn't he also have his run of +30/+40 pt games in 04 when Shaq was out?
Jul 15th 2009
185
                     i also remember it was kobe leaving the offense
Jul 15th 2009
196
                          ^truth
Jul 15th 2009
202
cmon
Jul 14th 2009
83
*comes in with plenty of H8 for both *
Jul 14th 2009
99
^^^walked in with a coat made of Juanita's and Vanessa's pubic hairs^^^
Jul 14th 2009
124
damn, i get on a plane, get off and this is already a shitstorm
Jul 14th 2009
118
veelover = when making up shit goes wrong lol nm
Jul 14th 2009
119
i've never seen someone take so many Ls while on the side that's right
Jul 15th 2009
192
      that requires real effort doggy..
Jul 16th 2009
216
lol
Jul 14th 2009
122
this dumb shit again?
Jul 14th 2009
123
2000-2001 Ravens Defense >>>>> 1985-1986 Bears Defense.
Jul 14th 2009
127
jerking off >>>>> pussy
Jul 14th 2009
138
takeover >>>>> ether
Jul 14th 2009
147
coast >>>>> dr bronners magic soap
Jul 14th 2009
148
hi-c >>>>> purple stuff
Jul 14th 2009
150
jar jar >>>>> chewbaka
Jul 14th 2009
151
full house >>>>> step by step
Jul 14th 2009
152
RE: 2000-2001 Ravens Defense >>>>> 1985-1986 Bears Defense.
Jul 14th 2009
154
^^^my thoughts exactly
Jul 14th 2009
128
lol @ the zone argument
Jul 14th 2009
142
One of my favorite Knight quotes goes like this...
Jul 14th 2009
149
Dude, you hit it right on the nose. That's what I'm sayin
Jul 14th 2009
156
That's exactly how Jordan thought about scoring too.
Jul 14th 2009
162
this fact can't be stressed enuff
Sep 17th 2010
553
If you don't bring intelligent shot selection into the discussion
Jul 14th 2009
153
RE: If you don't bring intelligent shot selection into the discussion
Jul 14th 2009
157
^^D.O.A.
Jul 14th 2009
163
Ernest, you been dropping jewels, son
Jul 15th 2009
170
thank u
Jul 15th 2009
188
very sound argument....
Jul 15th 2009
198
^^^^^SEE HOW EASY THIS WAS, KIDS?
Jul 15th 2009
204
Lach, c'mon.....you're a 70's baby
Jul 16th 2009
215
RE: Lach, c'mon.....you're a 70's baby
Jul 16th 2009
218
yep that's what I'm sayin
Jul 16th 2009
220
nope
Jul 18th 2009
254
      if it works better than other people shooting? yes
Jul 18th 2009
257
      are you honestly saying Jordan took worse shots than Kobe?
Jul 18th 2009
271
      RE: nope
Jul 18th 2009
274
           yep
Jul 19th 2009
290
that's a side point tho
Jul 16th 2009
219
      lol. physical talent??
Jul 20th 2009
301
           I'll let them entertain that notion from them
Jul 20th 2009
309
                lol cmon...
Jul 20th 2009
312
                     Cry all you will, but prime AI was a better scorer too
Jul 20th 2009
314
                     LOL - Prime AI was better than Kobe at what? Tattoos?
Jul 20th 2009
316
                          melmag is pretty much worthless as a poster
Jul 20th 2009
320
                          FOH..96-01 AI was easily a better scorer & arguably a better player
Jul 20th 2009
321
                               four scoring titles to two and we are actually arguing this?
Jul 21st 2009
333
                                    AI was a mindless gunner, is a mindless gunner
Jul 22nd 2009
365
                                         because he shoots 3% better or because he never passes?
Jul 26th 2009
455
                     wilt and kareem are givens
Jul 29th 2009
520
                          LMAO, gramps please log the fuck off...for like a month.
Jul 29th 2009
523
                               foh kobe-fluffer...you couldn't even answer post # 480
Jul 29th 2009
526
BEST ANSWER YET
Jul 21st 2009
346
Jordan is gettin you 30+ night in night out.....
Jul 14th 2009
159
Kobe isn't a great 3pt shooter
Jul 14th 2009
160
In big games, do-or-die situations, and thru series, it's not even close
Jul 15th 2009
164
for the 4598 time......
Jul 15th 2009
166
^^^^^^GOOOODAAAAAAMNNNN^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jul 15th 2009
171
lol
Jul 15th 2009
172
      My man ended this post with that.
Jul 15th 2009
175
      nah money, O_E and Jae are right
Jul 15th 2009
178
NO, the problem is the post title says "SCORER"
Jul 15th 2009
203
      Your post needs more caps.
Jul 16th 2009
213
*Looks around* MJ had the better mid range jumper guys..........
Jul 15th 2009
179
I'll say this though - MJ = more efficient scorer: Kobe = More versatile
Jul 15th 2009
187
Kobe's midrange consistency making it isn't in question
Jul 15th 2009
195
      You're right. And this is what pisses me off about Kobe
Jul 15th 2009
200
      exactly, two things stand out to me
Jul 18th 2009
273
           RE: exactly, two things stand out to me
Jul 19th 2009
295
                sure but i dont see him squaring up as well
Jul 21st 2009
331
Probably the only time you and I disagree when it comes to kobe and mj
Jul 15th 2009
193
      Maybe it is just shot selection but if that's all I see then..
Jul 15th 2009
199
Jordan has achieved more but Kobe's the better player. nm
Jul 15th 2009
189
oh cmon
Jul 15th 2009
190
and this is why threads like this deserve the hate
Jul 15th 2009
191
      LMAO @ double standard
Jul 15th 2009
194
      LMAO @ your undercover kobe love
Jul 15th 2009
201
      Lebron will NEVER surpass MJ
Jul 15th 2009
205
      i like Wade, and he>Bron, but he really not in the picture right now.
Jul 16th 2009
221
           you do understand Wade was 2nd in MVP votes last year
Jul 20th 2009
310
      well
Jul 15th 2009
207
Lach really shut this shit down-RE READ HIS SHIT
Jul 15th 2009
206
why don't we all just admit that jordan was just better, period
Jul 15th 2009
210
FUCK KOBE
Jul 16th 2009
214
LMFAO @ the bullshit zone defense era defense
Jul 16th 2009
217
mike was better at er'thang nigga.
Jul 17th 2009
225
Kobe takes tough unnecessary shots and makes them
Jul 17th 2009
226
And Kobe seems better from the outside because he takes
Jul 17th 2009
227
      no einstein, he seems better from deep because he is
Jul 17th 2009
230
           Steve Kerr also has a higher 3pt % than jordan
Jul 17th 2009
235
                LOL - no, but Kerr is a better 3pt shooter, Einstein.
Jul 17th 2009
236
                     and that makes him a better scorer?
Jul 17th 2009
238
                          Are you seriously retarded?
Jul 17th 2009
239
                               please enlighten us all
Jul 17th 2009
240
                               Okay.
Jul 17th 2009
243
                                    i'm sorry.....like you said...i'm retarded....
Jul 17th 2009
246
                                         No, I can't dumb it down.
Jul 17th 2009
247
                               OE just stop...some of these cats in here are just low iq dumbass niggas
Jul 17th 2009
252
                                    yet ya'll so quick to proclaim him a better 3pt shooter...
Jul 18th 2009
258
Why did I expect a concentrated effort from all parties involved...
Jul 17th 2009
229
stats are too misleading, they're for people who dont watch games.
Jul 17th 2009
232
      Bullshit
Jul 17th 2009
233
      i.e. Stats are misleading.
Jul 17th 2009
234
           in other words, no stat supports the idea that kobe's a better scorer
Jul 17th 2009
237
           LOL. LOL. LOL. LOL.
Jul 17th 2009
241
                damn, you sound mad
Jul 17th 2009
242
                     Apology accepted.
Jul 17th 2009
244
                          here's what you've missed so far:
Jul 17th 2009
248
                               i smell long winded scientific answer coming
Jul 17th 2009
249
                               LOL - you just provided two answers.
Jul 17th 2009
250
                                    i swear to god, you don't read well sometimes
Jul 17th 2009
251
                                         lol wtf?
Jul 17th 2009
253
                                              FOH
Jul 18th 2009
256
                                              ^^^ truth
Jul 18th 2009
259
                                              LOL...LB we got these niggas just making shit up...LOL LOL LOL
Jul 18th 2009
261
                                                   damn, your reading comp got worse
Jul 18th 2009
263
                                                        i'd like to think you're a smart guy
Jul 19th 2009
281
                                                             ^^^F-A-T-A-L-I-T-Y
Jul 19th 2009
287
                                                             i like to think you aren't a stan...but...
Jul 20th 2009
306
                                                             you were doing OK until you went here
Jul 21st 2009
334
                                                                  i know it's speculation.
Jul 21st 2009
350
                                                                       RE: i know it's speculation.
Jul 23rd 2009
370
                                                                            RE: i know it's speculation.
Jul 24th 2009
376
                                                                                 RE: i know it's speculation.
Jul 24th 2009
381
           No, it's not simple and that's why no one takes the time
Jul 18th 2009
262
      LOL...I find that funny coming from a guy who didn't watch Jordan play
Jul 18th 2009
265
      Stop posting and go buy some Costra Rican weed or pussy.
Jul 18th 2009
267
           I do that after work but until then........
Jul 18th 2009
268
      RE: stats are too misleading, they're for people who dont watch games.
Jul 21st 2009
329
      you mean like the games before mike's 1st comeback you didn't watch?
Jul 28th 2009
496
Im sorry OE, but you need to stick to boxing
Jul 18th 2009
255
LOL. You didn't read a single post that I wrote, doggie.
Jul 18th 2009
260
      RE: LOL. You didn't read a single post that I wrote, doggie.
Jul 18th 2009
269
so to summarize:
Jul 18th 2009
272
1 and 2 are on, 3 is debateable
Jul 19th 2009
275
it's really not.
Jul 19th 2009
286
Fam - these niggas won't admit #1 or #2
Jul 19th 2009
276
if we were to agree on those 3 points..
Jul 19th 2009
282
that works
Jul 20th 2009
308
damn vee-lover took multiple L's in this bitch lmao
Jul 19th 2009
278
bwahahahahaha....
Jul 19th 2009
284
      RE: bwahahahahaha....
Jul 19th 2009
291
      ETHER!!
Jul 26th 2009
447
to the people saying MJ's the better scorer and it's not even close
Jul 19th 2009
280
to answer your question....yes.
Jul 19th 2009
283
nice
Jul 19th 2009
285
RE: to the people saying MJ's the better scorer and it's not even close
Jul 19th 2009
288
RE: to the people saying MJ's the better scorer and it's not even close
Sep 17th 2010
549
Its NOT as close as some of you try and make it out to be
Jul 19th 2009
289
Kobe had a better range of shots including the 3 pointer
Jul 19th 2009
292
And for the last time, "variety of shots" doesn't mean much when
Jul 19th 2009
293
lol i definitely say this coming...
Jul 25th 2009
427
i can't wait until kobe gets this 7th title
Jul 19th 2009
294
when he does im tracking melmag down & breakin that nigga jaw
Jul 20th 2009
303
interesting (imo) point re: mj vs kb in 3 point shooting
Jul 19th 2009
296
once you determine kobe is BETTER, the analysis should end
Jul 19th 2009
297
it should? says who? go pop-lock in traffic, nigga
Jul 19th 2009
298
      Dula, you serving yourself an uncharacteristic L up in here, god.
Jul 20th 2009
307
           *asshole smirk*
Jul 20th 2009
311
LMAO @ y'all niggas INVENTING shit for MU to be better at.
Jul 19th 2009
299
      this whole post = y'all niggas INVENTING shit for bean to be better at!
Jul 20th 2009
302
           dog what you just did was petty
Jul 20th 2009
304
                speak for yourself...kobe gets a 7th titles, i'm shittin on mike legacy
Jul 20th 2009
305
Phil Jackson confirms kobe is more skilled, better shooter than MJ
Jul 20th 2009
313
he also confirmed MJ better, more efficient scorer
Jul 20th 2009
315
jordan's the more efficient and better overall player? NO WAY!
Jul 20th 2009
317
LMAO @ you still taking Zen Master blowing smoke up Kobe ass serious
Jul 20th 2009
318
      oooh you mad! lmao
Jul 20th 2009
319
      Tex Winter confirms Kobe not a better shooter than MJ, overrated on D
Jul 21st 2009
322
           he didn't commit one way or the other
Jul 21st 2009
323
           hmmm
Jul 21st 2009
325
           oooh you mad! lmao
Jul 21st 2009
326
                tex is just playing favorites
Jul 21st 2009
348
                     feel is just stroking kobe ego
Jul 22nd 2009
352
           ETHER. and some of ya'll act like mike was a lucky shooter LOL
Jul 21st 2009
324
                LOL. Phil Jackson just said Kobe is the better shooter
Jul 21st 2009
328
                     yeah he said he perhaps is the better outside shooter
Jul 21st 2009
347
      Wait - did you just admit Kobe has the wider array of skills?
Jul 21st 2009
327
           u got three people that coached/played with both that say MJ was the bet...
Jul 21st 2009
349
           yeah... and?
Jul 22nd 2009
355
                No. But Kobe has a wider array of scoring skills than Jordan.
Jul 22nd 2009
357
                     so basically Kobe's skill level isn't higher + Mike's the better scorer
Jul 22nd 2009
363
                          Mad.
Jul 22nd 2009
366
                               cheezy-e better scorer than willie.
Jul 22nd 2009
368
remembering kb24overrated.com
Jul 21st 2009
330
If the Debate Rages On After This...
Jul 21st 2009
332
more "useless" observations...
Jul 21st 2009
335
      LMAO!!!!! AWFUL!!!!
Jul 21st 2009
337
      at least try to normalize these then
Jul 22nd 2009
358
           No, you're just shape shifting the numbers to fit your conclusion.
Jul 24th 2009
375
      ^^^ROMAN CANDLE CAUSTIC ACID METEOR SHOWER FIYA!!!!!
Jul 21st 2009
342
LOL. LOL LOL Pathetic
Jul 21st 2009
336
really man?
Jul 21st 2009
338
please please please please just shut the fuck up
Jul 21st 2009
339
was this bait for me? i can't tell
Jul 21st 2009
344
^^^^LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL HOT LAVA ETHER SUNSPOT FIYAH!!!!1!!!!1!!!!!!!!1
Jul 21st 2009
341
LOL - The Tex Winter comments were better than that site, doggie
Jul 21st 2009
343
      RE: LOL - The Tex Winter comments were better than that site, doggie
Jul 21st 2009
345
           LMAO, dog when i seen "Wilt Rules!"..i lost it lol
Jul 21st 2009
351
           That site is no worse than the Kobe is overrated site.
Jul 22nd 2009
353
                so take out kobe's three first years
Jul 22nd 2009
354
                     LMFBAO!!!!! ^FAILLLLLL
Jul 22nd 2009
356
                          read post 338
Jul 22nd 2009
359
                          this is such an epic fail by you, it's sad
Jul 22nd 2009
361
                               LMFAO!!! O_E got cats FLUSTERED and MAKING SHIT UP. LOL LOL
Jul 22nd 2009
364
                                    pleas copped and accepted
Jul 22nd 2009
367
                                    lol @ Orbit not responding to this post directly
Jul 26th 2009
434
                                    please put down the microphone and walk away
Jul 23rd 2009
369
                                         LOL. You post like a fat nigga at the club
Jul 24th 2009
373
                                              these dudes are probably steaming mad at phil jackson right now lol.
Jul 24th 2009
378
                                                   Phil Jackson's comments SHATTERED this entire debate.
Jul 24th 2009
384
                                                   because you niggas are buttfucking right now
Jul 24th 2009
408
                                                   See, you stay ruining your posts with bad points. LOL
Jul 24th 2009
415
                                                        since you're so quick to take Phil's comments literally....
Jul 25th 2009
419
                                                        LB!!! GET IN HERE!!!! NIGGAS ARE CONCEDING DEFEAT!!!!!
Jul 25th 2009
420
                                                        SURE, HOMER.
Jul 25th 2009
422
                                                        Fam, you TRANSCRIBED the whole clip. That's an L.
Jul 25th 2009
423
                                                        typical reaction when ur shit is smacked
Jul 26th 2009
450
                                                        this is getting really, really embarrasing for you. wow...
Jul 25th 2009
425
                                                        LMAO....i can't stop laughing at this...its so pathetic.
Jul 27th 2009
476
                                                        RE: See, you stay ruining your posts with bad points. LOL
Jul 26th 2009
449
                                                   u mean when Phil said Mike would score 45 ppg playing w/ today's rules?
Jul 25th 2009
429
                                                        that's a prediction
Jul 25th 2009
430
                                                             Yep. These niggas trying REAL REAL hard. REAL hard.
Jul 26th 2009
437
                                                             uh huh... and what was this post about again?
Jul 26th 2009
440
                                                                  *Yawn* You about 250 posts too late with that, dunny
Jul 26th 2009
441
                                                                       LOL - you still scared to address the issue of this whole post!
Jul 26th 2009
442
                                                                            LOL - I been clear from post number THREE, doggy dogg
Jul 26th 2009
443
                                                                            post 357 & subsequent posts obfuscate your point
Jul 27th 2009
467
                                                                            ??
Jul 26th 2009
445
                                                                            you sound as silly as some of the people you're bashing
Jul 26th 2009
456
                                                                            RE: you sound as silly as some of the people you're bashing
Jul 27th 2009
460
                                                                            RE: you sound as silly as some of the people you're bashing
Jul 27th 2009
463
                                                                            sorry, I was mostly referring to O_E with that
Jul 27th 2009
470
                                                             it's an assessment.
Jul 26th 2009
438
                                                             cmon, that's got to be the worst trickonomics type of plea evah
Jul 27th 2009
472
                                                                  im done arguing with you, its clear as day you dont actually watch bball
Jul 27th 2009
475
                                                                       the fuck did that shit have to do with any damn thing i wrote?
Jul 27th 2009
478
                                                                            well we know you're no english major lol
Jul 28th 2009
482
                                                                                 oh jesus, your analytic skills need sharpening
Jul 28th 2009
507
                                                                                 LOL @ your low self esteem. LOL.
Jul 28th 2009
512
                                                                                 so many Ls, so little time
Jul 29th 2009
525
                                                                                 LMMFAO!!!! ^^^Another O_E madmaking masterpiece, folks
Jul 30th 2009
528
                                                                                 epic fail, folks, get your epic fail here
Jul 30th 2009
529
                                                                                 LOL. Hey - so what's that about your resume?
Jul 30th 2009
532
                                                                                 this is the third time you've put something in quotes I didn't say
Jul 30th 2009
539
                                                                                 he was speculating.
Jul 29th 2009
522
                                                   cmon.
Jul 25th 2009
431
                                                        really?
Jul 25th 2009
433
                                                             so?
Jul 26th 2009
439
                                                             I remember that quote
Jul 27th 2009
477
                                                                  lol and you definitely took an L here
Jul 28th 2009
481
                                                                       yeah that's an L I'm happy to take though. he proved me wrong
Jul 28th 2009
505
                                                                       Jordan, Pierce, LeBron
Jul 28th 2009
508
                                                                            actually jordan never did that sorry...although you'd have to actually
Jul 28th 2009
513
                                                                            he did it in the 91 finals though
Jul 28th 2009
517
                                                                            lol ya'll be putting waaay too much on pierce's performance
Jul 29th 2009
518
                                                                                 wade too, btw
Jul 29th 2009
527
                                                                                 Wades a good one nm
Jul 30th 2009
531
                                                                       RE: lol and you definitely took an L here
Jul 28th 2009
506
we REALLY need to stop referencing PER like it's OPS or some shit
Jul 22nd 2009
360
      i agree. PER is an average working stat
Jul 22nd 2009
362
http://i41.tinypic.com/t9f85c.jpg
Jul 21st 2009
340
Question for O_E and Kobe Stans...
Jul 23rd 2009
371
add that as well as...
Jul 23rd 2009
372
Y'all are making this really, really, easy.
Jul 24th 2009
374
      further proof of your faux 'expert' posting
Jul 24th 2009
377
           you're wasting your time
Jul 24th 2009
379
                I think the overall point is Shaq was the focal point of the offense
Jul 24th 2009
382
                     ^^^INDEPENDENT THINKER
Jul 24th 2009
383
                     dawg, he;s got willie winguy in his avi
Jul 24th 2009
389
                     And you mad. So?
Jul 24th 2009
390
                     Does Phil Jackson have him in his avi too?
Jul 24th 2009
                     yeah but I still said I think Jordan's shot selection
Jul 24th 2009
394
                          oh, i'm not saying you're wrong, just pointing out that you aren't unbia...
Jul 24th 2009
414
                     couldn't bail u out. take your L. you're welcome.
Jul 24th 2009
395
                     RE: I think the overall point is Shaq was the focal point of the offense...
Jul 24th 2009
386
                     AND FURTHERMORE HOW CAN YOU BE #2...
Jul 24th 2009
391
                     but you gotta account for a lot of things..
Jul 24th 2009
399
                     w/o getting too deep into it
Jul 24th 2009
392
                          RE: w/o getting too deep into it
Jul 24th 2009
412
                     read again what he says
Jul 24th 2009
393
                          all I'm sayin is when you play w/ Shaq
Jul 24th 2009
396
                               RE: all I'm sayin is when you play w/ Shaq
Jul 24th 2009
398
                                    RE: all I'm sayin is when you play w/ Shaq
Jul 24th 2009
401
                                         RE: all I'm sayin is when you play w/ Shaq
Jul 24th 2009
404
i have a question for all you kobistans
Jul 24th 2009
380
Simple
Jul 24th 2009
385
*yawn*
Jul 24th 2009
387
LOL. Wrong. You ruined your whole post right here.
Jul 24th 2009
388
      Like Phil Jackson is gonna say Jordan is better when it will only
Jul 24th 2009
397
      I'm sure Phil would say Craig Hodges..
Jul 24th 2009
400
      Nigga...you carry and infectious L-puss in your posts.
Jul 24th 2009
402
           Mad??
Jul 24th 2009
403
                *Takes L Prophylaxis*
Jul 24th 2009
405
                     bwahahahahaha....damn, you mad fa real, huh?
Jul 24th 2009
406
                          LOL...you in Costa Rica on the internet taking Ls, doggie
Jul 24th 2009
407
                               RE: LOL...you in Costa Rica on the internet taking Ls, doggie
Jul 24th 2009
409
      RE: LOL. Wrong. You ruined your whole post right here.
Jul 24th 2009
410
           I'd be mad if I was you too.
Jul 24th 2009
411
                read post 408
Jul 24th 2009
413
                Post 408 was another "Its just Phil's Opinion" Plea cop
Jul 24th 2009
416
                RE: I'd be mad if I was you too.
Jul 26th 2009
448
RE: Simple
Jul 24th 2009
417
      RE: Simple
Jul 26th 2009
451
so comparing wing players, fg% determines the better scorer & shooter?
Jul 24th 2009
418
      We already destroyed that point like 200 posts ago
Jul 25th 2009
421
      it definately determines who's the more EFFICIENT scorer
Jul 25th 2009
424
           i'll take all that as a NO.
Jul 25th 2009
428
                and you'd be WRONG
Jul 26th 2009
436
                     so it does determine the better shooter?
Jul 26th 2009
446
                          clearly yes
Jul 26th 2009
457
                               wade and bron have both had higher FG% for 5 years straight.
Jul 27th 2009
459
                                    wade already is a better shooter than kobe
Jul 27th 2009
465
                                         lol no, he isn't.
Jul 27th 2009
468
                                              funny how you didn't answer the question
Jul 28th 2009
480
MJ = Rakim...Kobe = Nas
Jul 25th 2009
426
So who's Jay-Z?
Jul 25th 2009
432
Jordan = Ra-Z
Jul 26th 2009
435
Naw Rakim= Dr J Nas= Jordan Jay-Z = Magic Johnson
Jul 26th 2009
444
We about to break the OK Sports MAD-O-METER up in this post
Jul 26th 2009
452
well melmag's been enraged since june 14th
Jul 26th 2009
453
      Funny thing is - I don't even fuck with Kobe like that.
Jul 26th 2009
458
      you've been enraged since 2005
Jul 27th 2009
471
           that post put me on the map.
Jul 27th 2009
474
           it established you as the prime minister of kobestan
Jul 28th 2009
493
           LOL @ you been mad ever since
Jul 28th 2009
488
                go look up that post, it's pretty funny
Jul 28th 2009
494
                     LB looks like Mother Theresa compared to the niggas in this post
Jul 28th 2009
495
WTF man...I was out of the country for 10 days and this broke out?!
Jul 26th 2009
454
please DTS its an embarasment..niggas is too mad
Jul 27th 2009
461
MADNESS => http://www.filmdope.com/Gallery/ActorsM/44565-27476.gif
Jul 27th 2009
462
Sooo.......y'all know Jordan is the better scorer though, right?
Jul 27th 2009
464
RE: Sooo.......y'all know Jordan is the better scorer though, right?
Jul 27th 2009
466
      i've popped in to laugh at post 419 for 3 straight days now
Jul 27th 2009
469
           goodness...I think Legacy said it best
Jul 27th 2009
473
           Post 419 broke the needle off the madness scale
Jul 28th 2009
486
                I iz IN tearz
Jul 28th 2009
489
480 replies? What an embarrassment. SMH.
Jul 28th 2009
479
for future reference:
Jul 28th 2009
483
Steve Kerr, former teammate of MJ says Kobe is most complete scorer ever
Jul 28th 2009
484
^^^^REGISTERED 10000000000000000 on the MAD-MAKING SCALE
Jul 28th 2009
485
LOL
Jul 28th 2009
487
http://thestartingfive.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/kobeshhhh.jpg
Jul 28th 2009
490
why don't you post vanessa and the girls comments
Jul 28th 2009
491
actually i thought the fact that im only quoting people who had direct
Jul 28th 2009
516
      RE: actually i thought the fact that im only quoting people who had dire...
Jul 29th 2009
519
Jul 28th 2009
499
      scans for "better scorer" doesn't see it
Jul 28th 2009
509
      *scans post for anger*
Jul 28th 2009
510
      *scans post again*
Jul 28th 2009
511
      cmon now dog
Jul 28th 2009
515
lol, this post is hilarious
Jul 28th 2009
492
this is wonderful
Jul 28th 2009
497
absolutely wonderful
Jul 28th 2009
498
I didn't think there was ANY WAY for this post to go Daytona
Jul 28th 2009
501
RE: I didn't think there was ANY WAY for this post to go Daytona
Jul 28th 2009
502
sheiit this post might go gumball when it gets upped again nxt may
Jul 28th 2009
504
sooo... I see even though FG% + Triangle Offense was mentioned..
Jul 28th 2009
514
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b131/chooch1268/Kyle_Moar.jpg
Jul 29th 2009
521
90% of this post right now:
Jul 30th 2009
535
the best part is everyone prolly said
Jul 30th 2009
537
      RE: the best part is everyone prolly said
Jul 30th 2009
538
ARCHIVE!!!
Sep 16th 2010
540
KB vs. MJ: Career PPG, FG%, 3pt%, AND FT %
Sep 17th 2010
541
Damn...my latest post crushed O_E and EL's arguments to me
Sep 17th 2010
542
RE: Damn...my latest post crushed O_E and EL's arguments to me
Sep 17th 2010
543
RE: Damn...my latest post crushed O_E and EL's arguments to me
Sep 17th 2010
544
huh? what was my argument?
Sep 17th 2010
546
This post is filled with a lot of hatred...
Sep 17th 2010
545
gotdamn @ post 419 smh
Sep 17th 2010
547
haha..thank you thank you thank you
Sep 17th 2010
548
      "i hate kobe" would be my best guess
Sep 17th 2010
550
damn me and OE HELD IT DOWN IN THIS BITCH!
Sep 17th 2010
551
yet it was widely debunked kobe is a better scorer
Sep 17th 2010
552
^^^
Sep 18th 2010
554

BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
85076 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 11:14 AM

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1. "thinly veiled "i want a double platinum post" post"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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JAESCOTT777
Member since Feb 18th 2006
28487 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 11:38 AM

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5. "^^^ yeah"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

  

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melmag
Charter member
18469 posts
Mon Jul-20-09 12:04 AM

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300. "TRIPLE PLAT BITCH"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

  

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40thStreetBlack
Charter member
27116 posts
Tue Jul-28-09 11:20 AM

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500. "diamond!"
In response to Reply # 300


          

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

  

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Beamer6178
Member since Jan 09th 2006
6379 posts
Tue Jul-28-09 11:41 AM

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503. "WE DID IT!"
In response to Reply # 500


  

          

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
26425 posts
Wed Jul-29-09 07:15 PM

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524. "all thanks to post 419"
In response to Reply # 503


  

          


-----------
mas que un club

08-09 Survivor Champion.

"I mean, I can pigeonhole people because I'm close-minded. But I'm special and different." (c) Walleye

  

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LegacyNS
Member since Jan 16th 2004
38095 posts
Thu Jul-30-09 08:41 AM

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530. "argurably one of the greatest displays of madness in OKS history"
In response to Reply # 524


  

          

at the very least.. it had DAT 'TENSITY!..


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- NOPE!!! CAN'T WIN A RING WITHOUT D. FISH!!

  

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Beamer6178
Member since Jan 09th 2006
6379 posts
Thu Jul-30-09 09:29 AM

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533. "RE: argurably one of the greatest displays of madness in OKS history"
In response to Reply # 530


  

          

but was he wrong?

those bamas were clinging to phil's words like it was oxygen. best to drag it out

  

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LegacyNS
Member since Jan 16th 2004
38095 posts
Thu Jul-30-09 10:06 AM

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534. "iono, the steam from the post kept fogging up my screen"
In response to Reply # 533
Thu Jul-30-09 10:22 AM by LegacyNS

  

          

so I couldn't read it.. - LMAO
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- NOPE!!! CAN'T WIN A RING WITHOUT D. FISH!!

  

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Beamer6178
Member since Jan 09th 2006
6379 posts
Thu Jul-30-09 10:28 AM

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536. "RE: iono, the steam from the post kept fogging up my screen"
In response to Reply # 534


  

          

lol eryone's had their moments on here tho, especially with the bullshit that is spewed on the daily

  

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southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 11:18 AM

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2. "i'm curious what the definition of 'scoring' is when ppl say this"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

does it mean kobe could score more points
or has more ways to score points

like i'd say lebron is a better scorer then kobe cause he can put up the same numbers with out hogging the ball as much
basically he's more efficient so all things being the same he could theoretically score more

~~~~~~

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 11:28 AM

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3. "Kobe is a far, far, far, better pure shooter."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


Jordan was a bit more explosive.

I'd say Kobe is a bit better in the "all around
scorer" category.

----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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melmag
Charter member
18469 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 11:36 AM

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4. "RE: Kobe is a far, far, far, better pure shooter."
In response to Reply # 3


  

          


>
>I'd say Kobe is a bit better in the "all around
>scorer" category.

and what did you base this on...Kobe's allegedly better pure shooting?

  

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southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 11:42 AM

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7. "i don't even get this to be honest"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

MJ had the better pure jumper post age 30 imo
kobe has more range from 3 and beyond i guess
not sure if ppl are including that in the equation

~~~~~~

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 12:10 PM

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12. "from outside, yes, midrange, eh, mike better"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

jordan had a way of always squaring his shoulders to the basket and it seemed like he never missed badly. kobe is better from outside and using his left hand, that is it.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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LegacyNS
Member since Jan 16th 2004
38095 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 01:01 PM

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16. "yeah, Bean is a lil better from 3 but that's about it"
In response to Reply # 12


  

          


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- NOPE!!! CAN'T WIN A RING WITHOUT D. FISH!!

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 02:38 PM

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38. "LOL @ "Kobe's better from 3" like its a throw in point"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          


That's a major fucking point in a discussion about
who is the better scorer. Stop acting like its not
relevant.

Kobe's long range shooting is not only deadly, I'd dare
say that I haven't seen a player, EVER, who shoots LONG
RANGE SHOTS with people in his face like Kobe Bryant. He
isn't just a spot up Dell Curry 3 baller, he can shoot
the lights out from any angle, with his body contorted
in any way, with any defender draped over him. That skill
is completely unprecedented, and yes, he does it far
better than Jordan did.

Even worse for y'all, I think his ability to do that is
comparable to Jordan's fadeaway or Kareem's hook. As
a guy who generally thinks Kobe Bryant is a piece of
shit, I hate watching him do that. He fucking skewered
the Nuggets and the Magic late in games with that
bullshit, and it was completely gravity and sense defying.

Jordan's fade-away was GREAT.

But Jordan did it from 11-19.

Kobe does it from 15-24.

But according to y'all, I guess its not important.



----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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Maputeco
Member since May 06th 2005
1230 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 03:07 PM

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48. "you've seen better days"
In response to Reply # 38


  

          

>
>That's a major fucking point in a discussion about
>who is the better scorer. Stop acting like its not
>relevant.

it's not. mike shot more free throws, made his life closer to the basket = shot more efficiently. as good a shooter, he's never shot above 40% from 3.

>Kobe's long range shooting is not only deadly, I'd dare
>say that I haven't seen a player, EVER, who shoots LONG
>RANGE SHOTS with people in his face like Kobe Bryant. He
>isn't just a spot up Dell Curry 3 baller, he can shoot
>the lights out from any angle, with his body contorted
>in any way, with any defender draped over him. That skill
>is completely unprecedented, and yes, he does it far
>better than Jordan did.

true. if i need a 3 to tie/win, i'll take kobe. everything else mj.

>Even worse for y'all, I think his ability to do that is
>comparable to Jordan's fadeaway or Kareem's hook.

wow.

>As a guy who generally thinks Kobe Bryant is a piece of
>shit, I hate watching him do that. He fucking skewered
>the Nuggets and the Magic late in games with that
>bullshit, and it was completely gravity and sense defying.

just as he shot his teams chances to win other games with poor shot selection.

>Jordan's fade-away was GREAT.
>
>But Jordan did it from 11-19.
>
>Kobe does it from 15-24.
>
>But according to y'all, I guess its not important.

given that mj shoots at a higher % and at a higher volume from that distance than kobe does from 15-24, why should it?

kobe is great, but mike had a better low post game, better midrange, drew contact better, shot freethrows better, took better care of the ball, took better shots (timely and within the offense), rebounded better (offensive rebounds), stole better. he had more way of creating offense than kobe ever did or does.

kanimambo

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 03:15 PM

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53. "LOL. Again - niggas don't know the facts. "
In response to Reply # 48


  

          


>it's not. mike shot more free throws, made his life closer to
>the basket = shot more efficiently. as good a shooter, he's
>never shot above 40% from 3.

And Shaq shot more efficiently than Jordan. That doesn't
make Shaq a better "pure scorer" than Jordan.

I mean, jesus christ.

>true. if i need a 3 to tie/win, i'll take kobe. everything
>else mj.

Or, in an era with a zone defense, where its harder to
penetrate the lane, you'd take Kobe.

That's why Kobe's long range game is so special - it
cannot be guarded.



>just as he shot his teams chances to win other games with poor
>shot selection.

LOL - when did Kobe do that?



>given that mj shoots at a higher % and at a higher volume from
>that distance than kobe does from 15-24, why should it?

Because Kobe's 15-24 game is more necessary in the zone
defense era where its perfectly legal to collapse
the lane.

And Kobe's ability to kill opponents on the perimeter is
specifically what makes him so cold-blooded.

Not sure why you idiots are so mad.

>kobe is great, but mike had a better low post game, better
>midrange,

LOL. Wrong. Kobe's midrange is at least as good, if not
better.

drew contact better, shot freethrows better,

Wrong. They're equal at the line.

>took
>better care of the ball, took better shots (timely and within
>the offense),

LOL. I'm not even sure how you determine the latter.

>rebounded better (offensive rebounds), stole
>better.

Odd, because "stealing" is irrelevant for two reasons:

a) It has nothing to do with pure offense

b) It actually has nothing to do with pure defense, because
steal numbers are always misleading. Jordan was a superb
defender, but not because of his steals. He was superb because
of his balance, his focus, and his physicality.

Again - you'd have to know what you're talking about
in order to understand that, but you don't.

he had more way of creating offense than kobe ever did
>or does.

LOL. Wrong.



----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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Maputeco
Member since May 06th 2005
1230 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 03:54 PM

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73. "RE: LOL. Again - niggas don't know the facts. "
In response to Reply # 53


  

          

>
>>it's not. mike shot more free throws, made his life closer
>to
>>the basket = shot more efficiently. as good a shooter, he's
>>never shot above 40% from 3.
>
>And Shaq shot more efficiently than Jordan. That doesn't
>make Shaq a better "pure scorer" than Jordan.

>I mean, jesus christ.

the post says better scorer not pure. mj is still than shaq at scoring.

>>true. if i need a 3 to tie/win, i'll take kobe. everything
>>else mj.
>
>Or, in an era with a zone defense, where its harder to
>penetrate the lane, you'd take Kobe.

where do you c zone besides the celtics? zone should affect lebron, not mike. he was much more patient than kobe, moved better. kobe crosses mid court and rarely makes a play w/o the ball, he simply waits outside. no movement.

>That's why Kobe's long range game is so special - it
>cannot be guarded.

it can. let's not go overboard. after all he still has to select his shots.

>
>
>>just as he shot his teams chances to win other games with
>poor
>>shot selection.
>
>LOL - when did Kobe do that?
>

ask el, la2phylly. they will not lie about it.

>
>>given that mj shoots at a higher % and at a higher volume
>from
>>that distance than kobe does from 15-24, why should it?
>
>Because Kobe's 15-24 game is more necessary in the zone
>defense era where its perfectly legal to collapse
>the lane.

no team plays zone even longer than a quarter. not even lebron, nor shaq see them. that point is invalid. zone? teams last resort to get killed from outside with 3pt shooting, or inside with offensive rebounds. watch bball this season.

>And Kobe's ability to kill opponents on the perimeter is
>specifically what makes him so cold-blooded.

he is coldblooded. no doubt.

>Not sure why you idiots are so mad.

mad's your middle name not mine.

>>kobe is great, but mike had a better low post game, better
>>midrange,
>
>LOL. Wrong. Kobe's midrange is at least as good, if not
>better.

no. kobe has more variety in his midrange. but mj always played to his strengths which were 2 get position. kobe's strength is his skilled game.

>drew contact better, shot freethrows better,
>
>Wrong. They're equal at the line.

true

>
>>took
>>better care of the ball, took better shots (timely and
>within
>>the offense),
>
>LOL. I'm not even sure how you determine the latter.

tex winter.

>
>>rebounded better (offensive rebounds), stole
>>better.
>
>Odd, because "stealing" is irrelevant for two reasons:
>
>a) It has nothing to do with pure offense

pure? read the post again please. stealing creates scoring opportunities

>b) It actually has nothing to do with pure defense, because
>steal numbers are always misleading. Jordan was a superb
>defender, but not because of his steals. He was superb
>because
>of his balance, his focus, and his physicality.
>
>Again - you'd have to know what you're talking about
>in order to understand that, but you don't.

i can tell you are a "purist". steals are part of offense as they create direct scoring chances, like breakaways.

>
>he had more way of creating offense than kobe ever did
>>or does.
>
>LOL. Wrong.

kobe is a shooter. mj could shoot, dribble drive, play in the post, could crash the glass.

kanimambo

  

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LegacyNS
Member since Jan 16th 2004
38095 posts
Wed Jul-15-09 08:08 AM

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167. "did you ignore my avi? - LOL"
In response to Reply # 38


  

          

I'm a Lakers fan man... I ain't selling Kobe short.. - LOL
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- NOPE!!! CAN'T WIN A RING WITHOUT D. FISH!!

  

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jahlove7
Charter member
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Thu Jul-16-09 01:19 AM

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212. "a pure shooter that can't shoot 50% from the field? nah..."
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

o_e, you are that dude and all, but no way in three hells is kobe a better pure shooter than jordan was.

kobe's never even shot 48% in a season. that's about jordan's worst shooting year in his prime, where he often shot over 52%.

i think the difference between the two is that kobe's a more spectacular scorer than mj. i don't think that's up for debate. mj never practiced being spectacular; he practiced the fundamentals, and excelled at being spectacular when he had to be.

kobe's more of a streak shooter than anything. and that's something jordan never was, not even in college, or in truth, not even in high school. (and yeah, i saw him play from his sophomore year on...same conference)

inaugural member - okayplayer sports hall of fame.


what i'm digging right now:

chocolate butterfly - self-titled
laura jane - welcome to my planet boo
me & this japanese guy - waiting for the miracle
wade3 - dreams
tracey amos - who are we really?

  

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JAESCOTT777
Member since Feb 18th 2006
28487 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 11:42 AM

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6. "I seen both at their best and I think Kobe is a better shooter"
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Jul-14-09 11:47 AM by JAESCOTT777

  

          

and im a MJ stan

I only conceed that because MJ played attacked the rim much more for the 1st 6-7 years of his career so his shooting % will be higher off top

I am sure you can pull out %'s and argue otherwise
but its not all black and white like that

KB's jumper is amoung the greatest in history

and hardly anyone would say KB24 is all around better
I honestly think some of yall invent shit to debunk


  

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ne_atl
Charter member
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Tue Jul-14-09 11:43 AM

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8. "When done with this post, email the crew at NBA.TV"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

They feel and have stated the same but none agreed he was all around better.

___________________________________
http://instagram.com/mrellsberry

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
26425 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 11:44 AM

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9. "apparently, it's "purity""
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

when MJ scored, he had at least 6.3% impure toxins in each shot.

Bean only has 3.4% toxins in each shot, making his shots 96.6% pure and thus better.

because the fun thing is, even after adjusting for 3 pointers being more valuable, MJ still has a better shooting percentage than k.obe
-----------
mas que un club

08-09 Survivor Champion.

"I mean, I can pigeonhole people because I'm close-minded. But I'm special and different." (c) Walleye

  

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southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 11:50 AM

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10. "lmao. this is one of the best "pure posts""
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

~~~~~~

  

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Castro
Charter member
50751 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 01:01 PM

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15. "^^^^^^ I NEED TO HEAR AVERY JOHNSON READ THIS REPLY LMAO"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

------------------
One Hundred.

  

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bshelly
Charter member
71730 posts
Sat Jul-18-09 02:33 PM

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266. "excellent reply, would read again"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.†(c) The God

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
26425 posts
Sat Jul-18-09 04:46 PM

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270. "looking back, i really should have quit while ahead with this one"
In response to Reply # 266


  

          

goddam...lb + his MJ and willie winguy comparisons ALWAYS GET ME.

(note: I'm not conceding defeat, I'm just saying that nothing in this thread was nearly as fun. the purity of this post was lost with all the toxicity of long and unnecessary exchanges. This thread is at like 22.4% purity at this point)

-----------
mas que un club

08-09 Survivor Champion.

"I mean, I can pigeonhole people because I'm close-minded. But I'm special and different." (c) Walleye

  

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FortifiedLive
Member since Dec 26th 2006
9984 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 11:50 AM

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11. "Kobe is a better shooter and has more range, but Jordan utilized his..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

abilities better and has a better post up game.

so taking all that into account, Jordan is the better scorer while Kobe has all the ability to be a better scorer but chooses to pop incredibly difficult shots and 3's instead.

_______________________________________

<<progressions.

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
26425 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 12:20 PM

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13. "i can kinda get this, but one thing that bothers me"
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

is this assumption that willie winguy coulda gone the jordan route and taken easier shots, but didn't.

why do we assume that or imply it?

there's a reason LeBron (to try to make this go triple platinum) isn't fixing his outside shot as much as most of us want...because what he's doing works and it's a lot easier for him.

there's a reason Jordan didn't master his post up game first...he didn't need it in his repertoire as much then. when he got older and bulked up a bit more, he added it and it was deadly.

V is done with adding a new move to his repertoire. He's too old to do it. he'll add a specific move or whatever, but not something like "his post up game". So Bean figured that an outside shot was a better route to take than "use his athleticism".

was he wrong? does this mean bean fucked up and incorrectly focused his training on long-range instead of become a lethal post-up guards? Or was he right and he focused his energies on the long range jumper because that was where he'd be better...meaning that the whole mid-range/close shot approach that jordan used wasn't just using something better than bean, but actually just was fundamentally better than bean at that aspect of his game.

which means bean is not better than jordan in anything except long range shooting. it wasn't that V didn't decide to do it, its that Jordan could and Bean didn't. unless you want to admit that players can only do X number of things well and Bean subtracted post game and replaced it with 3 pointers and Jordan coulda done the same thing but went the other route. If you do that, then you realize not only is this "pure" thing hot bullshit, but also that Jordan was smarter than bean, as his statistics across the board are better for scoring.

(I'll save my "jordan actually was a pretty damn decent 3 point shooter" argument for later baiting. suffice to say that when he did decide to use it for a season, he was effective with it)

-----------
mas que un club

08-09 Survivor Champion.

"I mean, I can pigeonhole people because I'm close-minded. But I'm special and different." (c) Walleye

  

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LegacyNS
Member since Jan 16th 2004
38095 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 01:03 PM

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17. "simply put: MJ just had bettter shot selection"
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

It was incredible how many difficult shots Jordan made but at the same time how few bad shots he actually took.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- NOPE!!! CAN'T WIN A RING WITHOUT D. FISH!!

  

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LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
41249 posts
Wed Jul-15-09 09:20 PM

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208. "Kobe routinely allows his man to recover when he catches off the ball"
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

It's extremely frustrating....I have hated that shit for years. He will come off a down screen, his man is off-balance, and instead of attacking, this mugfucker decides to just chill. It happens all the damn time and I have no idea why he does it.

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
20388 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 01:18 PM

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21. "this is just flat out wrong...."
In response to Reply # 11
Tue Jul-14-09 01:26 PM by vee-lover

  

          

>abilities better and has a better post up game.

Jordan probably had more ability than any other player ever, especially 2-guards. And Kobe's post up game is NOT AS GOOD as MJs...no way. For one thing, MJ was stronger than Kobe and he posted up guards in the paint far more than Kobe does.
>
>so taking all that into account, Jordan is the better scorer
>while Kobe has all the ability to be a better scorer but
>chooses to pop incredibly difficult shots and 3's instead.

Dudes are saying Kobe is better from the outside but as you said, MJ didn't constantly chuck up long range difficult shots from three, particularly if he was off. And I guess some of you dudes forget or are too young to remember that MJ wanted to be in the 3-pt contest and did so by going on a tear in the 1990 season with 3-pt shots. It was his 3rd best performance from 3-pt range.( 3-ptfga/245-3-ptfgm/92) Demonstrating that if there was something he wanted to do he could've easily done it. (he did fail miserably though in the 3-pt contest that year)

And lets also remember, the 3-pt line was LONGER for most of MJ's career than it is in Kobe's era.

This argument makes no sense to me at all. All things considered, MJ is probably thee GREATEST SCORER TO EVER PLAY THE GAME. He was more efficient than Kobe by a mile and he averaged more points and he rarely went through shooting slumps the way Kobe often does in a game.

grassrootsphilosopher

  

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melmag
Charter member
18469 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 01:22 PM

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22. "!!!!!!!!!!!"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

cats completely overlook this crucial factor


>And lets also remember, the 3-pt line was LONGER for most of
>MJ's career than it is in Kobe's era.
>

  

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FortifiedLive
Member since Dec 26th 2006
9984 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 01:39 PM

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23. "re-read what i wrote homie. i said JORDAN has a better post up game."
In response to Reply # 21
Tue Jul-14-09 01:44 PM by FortifiedLive

  

          

>
>Jordan probably had more ability than any other player ever,
>especially 2-guards. And Kobe's post up game is NOT AS GOOD as
>MJs...no way. For one thing, MJ was stronger than Kobe and he
>posted up guards in the paint far more than Kobe does.
>>
>>so taking all that into account, Jordan is the better scorer
>>while Kobe has all the ability to be a better scorer but
>>chooses to pop incredibly difficult shots and 3's instead.

from what we've seen, we can only assume Kobe has better range because Jordan never relied on the trey - only in dire situations which, yes, would make his shots more difficult and account for his lower percentage. however, this is the only thing we can go off of. so the only thing I (emphasis on I) will credit Kobe in being better at is his 3 pt shooting. so maybe i should've left it at having better range instead of being the better shooter.

>Dudes are saying Kobe is better from the outside but as you
>said, MJ didn't constantly chuck up long range difficult shots
>from three, particularly if he was off. And I guess some of
>you dudes forget or are too young to remember that MJ wanted
>to be in the 3-pt contest and did so by going on a tear in the
>1990 season with 3-pt shots. It was his 3rd best performance
>from 3-pt range.( 3-ptfga/245-3-ptfgm/92) Demonstrating that
>if there was something he wanted to do he could've easily done
>it. (he did fail miserably though in the 3-pt contest that
>year)
>
>And lets also remember, the 3-pt line was LONGER for most of
>MJ's career than it is in Kobe's era.

Kobe chucks up his 3's well beyond the arc.

>This argument makes no sense to me at all. All things
>considered, MJ is probably thee GREATEST SCORER TO EVER PLAY
>THE GAME. He was more efficient than Kobe by a mile and he
>averaged more points and he rarely went through shooting
>slumps the way Kobe often does in a game.

and in terms of ability, i see Kobe having the slight advantage physically - i'm not sure if it's because he's an inch taller or what.

but don't get it twisted - we're on the same page. MJ is easily the better scorer. i'm just saying that Kobe had the potential to be better but didn't.

_______________________________________

<<progressions.

  

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melmag
Charter member
18469 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 01:57 PM

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26. "how so?"
In response to Reply # 23


  

          



>and in terms of ability, i see Kobe having the slight
>advantage physically

MJ was obviously stronger & the better athlete


i'm not sure if it's because he's an
>inch taller or what.

they've been both listed at 6'6" they entire career

  

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FortifiedLive
Member since Dec 26th 2006
9984 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 02:06 PM

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29. "really? i've always seen Kobe listed at 6'7""
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

to be honest, Kobe just looks a little lankier, and lanky always gives me the impression of having the height and reach advantage...

but now that i think about it (thinks of Jordan Flight Wingspan poster in my teenage room), Jordan probably had a 2+" reach advantage. damn, guess all Kobe had on him was height - IF THAT!

_______________________________________

<<progressions.

  

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auragin_boi
Member since Aug 01st 2003
20939 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 12:53 PM

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14. "LMAO....let's just keep it simple:"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

3pts = Kobe better
Range = Kobe better
Midrange = MJ better (a lot better than people think)
Low post = MJ better (though Kobe prolly could match with more time down low...he has all MJ's mechanics down here)
Drives/Explosiveness = MJ better
Trick shots/And 1's = MJ MUCH better
Scoring from various spots on the court = Kobe 'slightly' better (MJ chose to stick with his sweet spots more often than not, Kobe has sweet spots be he can score from sporatic areas at times)
Freethrow shooting = TIE

Overall scoring ability (Based on: weapons, effectiveness, efficiency, dominance) = MJ BETTER.

End post.

Have a great life.

____________

  

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bigpo
Member since Aug 08th 2003
4498 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 02:32 PM

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34. "agree with most...but kobe is a better freethrow shooter."
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

"MY FOOD FOR THOUGHT SO HOT IT GIVE YOU DUDES ULCERS."
JAY Z

  

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El_essence
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24899 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 02:38 PM

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37. "not to nit pick but"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

>Midrange = MJ better (a lot better than people think)

disagree. I think Kobe's on his level or slightly better midrange.

>Low post = MJ better (though Kobe prolly could match with more time down low...he has all MJ's mechanics down here)

No. MJ all day. Kobe's got great footwork. MJ's strength gives him the edge.

>Trick shots/And 1's = MJ MUCH better

Much better? Really? Sell me on this one please.


All the other shit I agree with you.

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 02:46 PM

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41. "Seriously. How do niggas say Jordan was better mid-range? "
In response to Reply # 37


  

          


That is patently false.

Kobe is *at least* as good mid-range.


----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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El_essence
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24899 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 02:56 PM

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43. "Yeah and when we talk about midrange"
In response to Reply # 41


  

          

we're not just talking about a simple jumpshot from 15 out. We're talking about

1. the hard dribble pull up
2. the dribble around a screen at the ft line quick pull up ala Cassell
3. the stop on the dime transition pull up
4. The multiple spin/step through floater.

All shots rarely hitting anything but bottom. Dude is filthy from midrange.

  

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Maputeco
Member since May 06th 2005
1230 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 03:27 PM

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58. "yall love to complicate things"
In response to Reply # 43


  

          

>we're not just talking about a simple jumpshot from 15 out.
>We're talking about
>
>1. the hard dribble pull up
>2. the dribble around a screen at the ft line quick pull up
>ala Cassell
>3. the stop on the dime transition pull up
>4. The multiple spin/step through floater.
>
>All shots rarely hitting anything but bottom. Dude is filthy
>from midrange.

all those shots are good, but not as efficient as mj's fadeaway. and mj had the body to impose his game, same way lb james barrels through the paint, same way shaq imposes himself.

at the end of the day, if mj can always get his hsot, he is the better scorer, no matter what kind of shot kobe pulls.

kanimambo

  

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El_essence
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Tue Jul-14-09 03:48 PM

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70. "I'm not complicating anything. I'm pretty clear actually"
In response to Reply # 58


  

          

I'm speaking specifically about one aspect of Kobe's game being severely underrated.

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Tue Jul-14-09 04:33 PM

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107. ""complicated" = more than 3rd grade reading level to these kids. "
In response to Reply # 70


  

          


These kids aren't exactly bending metal spoons
in here.


----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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melmag
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Thu Jul-16-09 12:23 AM

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211. "and that's the bottom line (c) stone cold"
In response to Reply # 58


  

          


>
>at the end of the day, if mj can always get his hsot, he is
>the better scorer, no matter what kind of shot kobe pulls.

  

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auragin_boi
Member since Aug 01st 2003
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Tue Jul-14-09 03:40 PM

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65. "If you take away 3pt shots from the equation"
In response to Reply # 43
Tue Jul-14-09 03:40 PM by auragin_boi

  

          

Kobe still loses this argument and anyone who watched MJ KNOWS he didn't dunk/get lay ups 10 times a game ESPECIALLY after 1990.

And Kobe's first 5-6 yrs in the league he wasn't a dead on 3pt shooter either.

So taking all that into account. MJ still shoots better.

I WISH someone kept jump shot stats (minus dunks/layups/3pts) and I'm SURE MJ would still win that comparison.

____________

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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67. "*record scratch* "
In response to Reply # 65


  

          

>Kobe still loses this argument and anyone who watched MJ
>KNOWS he didn't dunk/get lay ups 10 times a game ESPECIALLY
>after 1990.

>And Kobe's first 5-6 yrs in the league he wasn't a dead on 3pt
>shooter either.
>
>So taking all that into account. MJ still shoots better.
>
>I WISH someone kept jump shot stats (minus dunks/layups/3pts)
>and I'm SURE MJ would still win that comparison.

a) Wrong

b) I like how no one has addressed how long range
shooting is far more essential in the zone defense
era. That's WHY Kobe has to shoot more. In that
pussy ass one on one era he woulda pissin on
niggas in the lane. You CAN'T GET IN THE LANE
like you could in today's game. Not possible.

----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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auragin_boi
Member since Aug 01st 2003
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Tue Jul-14-09 04:09 PM

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86. "It's funny cuz Lebron has no trouble getting in the lane most nights"
In response to Reply # 67


  

          

What's also funny is bean took over 1300 shots that weren't 3pts this yr

____________

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Tue Jul-14-09 04:24 PM

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98. "Uh. Dumbass. Not all "long range shots" are three pointers. "
In response to Reply # 86


  

          

>What's also funny is bean took over 1300 shots that weren't
>3pts this yr

Long range is anything further than 18 feet. Those
are important in the zone era

And Lebron is 7'3 and 300lbs with the quickness of a guard.
He's bar none the most physically gifted player the league
has ever seen(at least since Wilt).



----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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The Mac
Member since Feb 11th 2008
1493 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 04:28 PM

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101. "Pleas COPPED!!!!!!"
In response to Reply # 98


          


>And Lebron is 7'3 and 300lbs with the quickness of a guard.
>He's bar none the most physically gifted player the league
>has ever seen(at least since Wilt).

Cause I'm doing better now, don't mean I never lost shit/ I was married to a state of mind and I divorced it -- Black Thought

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 04:32 PM

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106. "*moonwalks*"
In response to Reply # 101


  

          


http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/15420826/ns/sports-nba/

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/frank_deford/02/25/lebron/


Goddamn, I'm good.


Basically what I'm saying about Lebron is common knowledge.





----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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The Mac
Member since Feb 11th 2008
1493 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 04:41 PM

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111. "I KNOW he's the best athlete the NBA has seen in ages..."
In response to Reply # 106


          

Trust me, I don't need YOU to remember that.

It's just funny how you act like zones stop dudes from getting in the lane as an excuse for Kobe, while forever acting like LeBron is not as good/pure/whatever the fuck scorer as Kobe, and then use his body/athleticism as an excuse. FOH.

Cause I'm doing better now, don't mean I never lost shit/ I was married to a state of mind and I divorced it -- Black Thought

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 04:44 PM

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114. "Uh. I want you to re-read your arguments."
In response to Reply # 111
Tue Jul-14-09 04:45 PM by Orbit_Established

  

          


Then proof-think them, because you're not making
any sense.

>It's just funny how you act like zones stop dudes from getting
>in the lane as an excuse for Kobe, while forever acting like
>LeBron is not as good/pure/whatever the fuck scorer as Kobe,
>and then use his body/athleticism as an excuse. FOH.

Lebron is able to get into the lane in the zone era because
he can physically do what no player in league history can
do.

Thing is - Lebron still can't finish the way Kobe can, because
his touch isn't nearly as good, and he isn't as clever around
the rim(His hang time is better, but not his angles or his
timing).

And Lebron can be a clank machine when defenses sag on him.

You sag on Kobe and he'll pop 60 in your eye.

That simple.





----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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The Mac
Member since Feb 11th 2008
1493 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 04:52 PM

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120. "So LeBron only scores cuz he big?"
In response to Reply # 114


          

And not only does he score as much or more than Kobe, he scores at a higher clip...this has nothing to do w/ skills, but size? That's what you are trying to tell me?

Cause I'm doing better now, don't mean I never lost shit/ I was married to a state of mind and I divorced it -- Black Thought

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 05:07 PM

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126. "Yes, that exactly what I said. "
In response to Reply # 120


  

          

>And not only does he score as much or more than Kobe, he
>scores at a higher clip...this has nothing to do w/ skills,
>but size? That's what you are trying to tell me?

Yowzers.

----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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The Mac
Member since Feb 11th 2008
1493 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 05:17 PM

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130. "Word."
In response to Reply # 126


          

Cause I'm doing better now, don't mean I never lost shit/ I was married to a state of mind and I divorced it -- Black Thought

  

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auragin_boi
Member since Aug 01st 2003
20939 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 04:53 PM

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121. "Ok Dumbass...prove that long range shooting is all of a sudden"
In response to Reply # 98


  

          

more important since 2001 than it was prior to 2001.

Like PROVE this shit.

Prove that the league since 2001 has shot more 3 pointers in ANY 8 yr period since the 3 has been in place. And prove that this is BECAUSE of zone defenses (which most teams to play that often anyway...hell most teams can't even play positional/help zone D, like the C's do, very well at all).

Stop just pulling shit out your ass and prove it.

____________

  

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Imokuede
Charter member
5180 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 06:52 PM

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146. "Amazing. Considering there were better shooters during the Jordan era."
In response to Reply # 121


  

          

Especially at the beginning. I think that is the real reason why you saw people driving on cats. It's far easier to drive when people have to respect your J. Damn there are some revisionist motherfuckers in this post.
______________________________
PSN ID - muzuabo

R.I.P. - The Curse

Let's hug it out bitch
www.lhiob.com

1918-2004

<-----Then you can't tell me nothing right!

  

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southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 06:26 PM

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143. "AI or tony parker either for that matter. that lane shit was a L in wait..."
In response to Reply # 86
Tue Jul-14-09 06:26 PM by southphillyman

  

          

.

~~~~~~

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
26425 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 06:28 PM

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144. "^^^was waiting for that trip up with 5 africans behind him"
In response to Reply # 143


  

          

ready for anything.

-----------
mas que un club

08-09 Survivor Champion.

"I mean, I can pigeonhole people because I'm close-minded. But I'm special and different." (c) Walleye

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 08:28 PM

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158. "LOL...you talkin about 6foot point guards...LOL...LOL"
In response to Reply # 143


  

          

'
Nigga of course they can dribble around anyone


----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
26425 posts
Wed Jul-15-09 07:39 AM

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165. "^adjusting his claim again"
In response to Reply # 158


  

          


-----------
mas que un club

08-09 Survivor Champion.

"I mean, I can pigeonhole people because I'm close-minded. But I'm special and different." (c) Walleye

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Wed Jul-15-09 08:10 AM

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168. "LOL - I talked about Lebron James. "
In response to Reply # 165


  

          


I ain't say shit about no little 6ft guards

LOL

Y'all just desperate to the point of using any and
everything



----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
26425 posts
Wed Jul-15-09 08:14 AM

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169. "so lying. at least be honest"
In response to Reply # 168


  

          

you were talking about kobe:

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=8&topic_id=1257410&mesg_id=1257410&page=#1257679

he's like the anti-goldilocks...not big enough, but also not small enough either, ehh?

-----------
mas que un club

08-09 Survivor Champion.

"I mean, I can pigeonhole people because I'm close-minded. But I'm special and different." (c) Walleye

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Wed Jul-15-09 08:22 AM

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174. "LOL - still mad from yesterday, eh? Do better. "
In response to Reply # 169


  

          


LOL.

You're picking the wrong fight.

I'm saying that Lebron can do things physically that
Kobe cannot do in today's game. Its actually one of the
most basic things anyone has said in this entire debate.

Unlike you're statistical gymnastics(lol) and your boy's
mythical 39 foot 3 point line during the Jordan era

LOL

Seriously - don't carry anger from Tuesday into Wednesday.

Not a good lookee, wookie.

----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
26425 posts
Wed Jul-15-09 08:29 AM

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176. "for the sake of those who don't bother clicking links:"
In response to Reply # 174


  

          

"that's WHY Kobe has to shoot more. In that
pussy ass one on one era he woulda pissin on
niggas in the lane. You CAN'T GET IN THE LANE
like you could in today's game"

LMAO.

-----------
mas que un club

08-09 Survivor Champion.

"I mean, I can pigeonhole people because I'm close-minded. But I'm special and different." (c) Walleye

  

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The Mac
Member since Feb 11th 2008
1493 posts
Wed Jul-15-09 08:37 AM

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180. "RE: for the sake of those who don't bother clicking links:"
In response to Reply # 176


          

Unless you are taller and stronger than Kobe, or shorter and faster than him. But if you are Kobe, or built the same way, you can't get in the lane. Guess Mike would have no chance.

Cause I'm doing better now, don't mean I never lost shit/ I was married to a state of mind and I divorced it -- Black Thought

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Wed Jul-15-09 08:42 AM

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181. "LOL. You so mad, you just proved my point"
In response to Reply # 176
Wed Jul-15-09 08:45 AM by Orbit_Established

  

          


>"that's WHY Kobe has to shoot more. In that
>pussy ass one on one era he woulda pissin on
>niggas in the lane. You CAN'T GET IN THE LANE
>like you could in today's game"

LOL.

Kobe would have much easier time scoring in the lane
in the 80s than he does today. Jumpshooting and long
range shooting stretches defenses today in a way
that it didn't in the 80s

This is also why you have so many 7 foot jumpshooters
in today's game. Its not because people became magically
less skilled in the paint

For further ether, look at Larry Bird's 3 point stats:

In some of his best years, he was hitting only 50-60
a year

It wasn't because he *couldn't* shoot

Of course he fucking could.

It was because he could score in other, high percentage
ways

Today Larry would be wettin niggas from long range



----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
26425 posts
Wed Jul-15-09 08:49 AM

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183. "lol. this has become a parady of a satire of a mock-up of a joke"
In response to Reply # 181


  

          

of a mad-making attempt at a post at this point.

lol.

-----------
mas que un club

08-09 Survivor Champion.

"I mean, I can pigeonhole people because I'm close-minded. But I'm special and different." (c) Walleye

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Wed Jul-15-09 08:53 AM

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186. "Apology accepted. "
In response to Reply # 183


  

          


Just don't let it happen again.


----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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auragin_boi
Member since Aug 01st 2003
20939 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 03:10 PM

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51. "RE: not to nit pick but"
In response to Reply # 37


  

          

>disagree. I think Kobe's on his level or slightly better
>midrange.

cats really don't seem to remember but fam, MJ inside the 3 (Especially after 1990) was pretty much money. Kobe is too but MJ was more consistent in that aspect. I'm sure if we both dug deep enough we could find stats to support this but I don't feel like doing the research right now.

>>Low post = MJ better (though Kobe prolly could match with
>more time down low...he has all MJ's mechanics down here)
>
>No. MJ all day. Kobe's got great footwork. MJ's strength gives
>him the edge.

Kobe doesn't use this weapon as often though. If he did, I think he has the mechanics to at least match MJ here. MJ was 'that' much stronger than Kobe currently is.

>>Trick shots/And 1's = MJ MUCH better
>
>Much better? Really? Sell me on this one please.

MJ routinely hit the reverse, turn around scoop shot over the head, double/triple pump shots and a lot of those were after a foul. Kobe doesn't do this as often. MJ was a MUCH better finisher of these type of moves and he got waaaaaaaaaaaay more and 1's because of it.

And I'm sure there are stats to back this up.

____________

  

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El_essence
Charter member
24899 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 03:59 PM

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76. "RE: not to nit pick but"
In response to Reply # 51


  

          

>cats really don't seem to remember but fam, MJ inside the 3
>(Especially after 1990) was pretty much money. Kobe is too
>but MJ was more consistent in that aspect. I'm sure if we
>both dug deep enough we could find stats to support this but I
>don't feel like doing the research right now.

But to say much better deserves some research fam. Had you said slightly better, I'd probably still disagree and just K.I.M. But to say much better is completely short changing Kobe's biggest skillset.

>Kobe doesn't use this weapon as often though. If he did, I
>think he has the mechanics to at least match MJ here. MJ was
>'that' much stronger than Kobe currently is.

That's what I'm sayign though. Kobe's footwork is probably as good as MJ's. But MJ's strength makes his post game better.

>>>Trick shots/And 1's = MJ MUCH better
>>
>>Much better? Really? Sell me on this one please.
>
>MJ routinely hit the reverse, turn around scoop shot over the
>head, double/triple pump shots and a lot of those were after a
>foul. Kobe doesn't do this as often. MJ was a MUCH better
>finisher of these type of moves and he got waaaaaaaaaaaay more
>and 1's because of it.
>
>And I'm sure there are stats to back this up.

I'd like to see this fam. I think MJ gets trick shot brownie points here because he was the first to do them. But the reverse layup is damn near basketball 101 for any swing worth his weight nowadays. Garbage swings today do that shot routinely. As for the double triple pump. Really? That's damn near a standard shot for Kobe. double triple reverse pivot foot. All that shit is as much a part of his arsenal as it was MJ's. I don't think you watch enough Laker games to really make this assessment. And I say that with no disrespect. We pretty much agree on everything else involving this debate though.

  

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LBs Finest
Member since Sep 28th 2005
19846 posts
Fri Jul-17-09 07:46 PM

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231. "FOH"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

>3pts = Kobe better
>Range = Kobe better

agreed.

>Midrange = MJ better (a lot better than people think)

cmon man kobe's got arguably the best midrange game in the league! at worst he's MJ equal here.

>Low post = MJ better (though Kobe prolly could match with more
>time down low...he has all MJ's mechanics down here)

i'll give mike the slight edge here.

>Drives/Explosiveness = MJ better

agreed.

>Trick shots/And 1's = MJ MUCH better

lmao, NO.

>Scoring from various spots on the court = Kobe 'slightly'
>better (MJ chose to stick with his sweet spots more often than
>not, Kobe has sweet spots be he can score from sporatic areas
>at times)

fine.

>Freethrow shooting = TIE

kobe .5 better,

>
>Overall scoring ability (Based on: weapons, effectiveness,
>efficiency, dominance) = MJ BETTER.

based on those 4 things it's a tie.

_________________________

  

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Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
49463 posts
Sun Jul-19-09 02:28 AM

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277. "*looks into camera and frowns @ tie for FT shooting*"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

even if you have to qualify it by saying kobe slightly better...BE FAIR

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

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Edoggy
Charter member
11529 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 01:03 PM

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18. "I'm completely anti-Jordan..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

and I'm a Laker Fan. However, Kobe is not even close to doing what Jordan did scoring wise. Jordan made EVERYTHING look easy...

He did everything to win. He whipped ass (even his team mates) and his work ethic is what today's players model themselves after.

Lastly, 6 rings...


Kobe IS the better shooter, tho...

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 01:08 PM

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19. "I thought i'd never, ever, ever, say this:"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


Niggas have succeeded in overhyping Michael Jordan.

Wow.

----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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LegacyNS
Member since Jan 16th 2004
38095 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 01:14 PM

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20. "explain what you mean tho.. "
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

I mean, he was pretty fuckin good.. LOL
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- NOPE!!! CAN'T WIN A RING WITHOUT D. FISH!!

  

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ErnestLee
Member since Mar 03rd 2003
28533 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 01:54 PM

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25. "It;s not even possible to do that really"
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

He was *that* good. Even having these Kobe discussions is an insult to anyone who actually watched Mike play. Kobe is a great player, but he's just not on that level. Dude got so bored with dominating, he went and played another sport. Then came back and dominated again. He's the GOAT, and it aint close.

---------------------------------------------------------

  

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southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 02:01 PM

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27. "^^got damn, and this is coming from a pistons fan^^"
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

who had to watch MJ dominate as his team SUCKED

~~~~~~

  

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LegacyNS
Member since Jan 16th 2004
38095 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 02:07 PM

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30. "LOL @ this ninja with the cosign sneaky hate combo.."
In response to Reply # 27
Tue Jul-14-09 02:07 PM by LegacyNS

  

          

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- NOPE!!! CAN'T WIN A RING WITHOUT D. FISH!!

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 02:32 PM

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35. "See, this is how I know I'm 1000% correct. "
In response to Reply # 25


  

          


Not only are you talking in completely hyperbole,
you are plain making shit up about Michael Jordan
and it borders on wild hilarity.

>He was *that* good.

As an all around player, yes, he was lots better
than Kobe Bryant(though, amazingly, the public's
perceived gap here is larger than the actual
gap too)

As a scorer, no, Jordan was not *that* good.

Hell, before his ACL injury, Dominique Wilkins
was in the same league(not better, not as good,
but certainly in the same league) as Michael
Jordan in terms of overall unguardability.



>Even having these Kobe discussions is an
>insult to anyone who actually watched Mike play.

Kobe Bryant recently scored 81 in a game and
averaged 35 a game...the most ppg since Michael Jordan.

There's nothing "insulting" about the comparison
at all.

In terms of offensive skills, the comparison is
very valid.


>Kobe is a
>great player, but he's just not on that level. Dude got so
>bored with dominating, he went and played another sport.

Uh. Jordan didn't quit because he was "bored," dumbass.

This is proof you didn't even watch him play during that
time. Everyone who watched at that time knows why the
fuck he quite.

>Then
>came back and dominated again. He's the GOAT, and it aint
>close.

Great. Fortunately for you, this is has nothing to do with
whether or not he was a better pure scorer than Kobe Bryant.





----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
49463 posts
Sun Jul-19-09 02:30 AM

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279. "yes, it is...you JUST DID IT"
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

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ne_atl
Charter member
18873 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 02:12 PM

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31. "DING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!..."
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

>
>Niggas have succeeded in overhyping Michael Jordan.
>
>Wow.
>

You would think the man never missed or never took a ridiculous shot.

___________________________________
http://instagram.com/mrellsberry

  

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LBs Finest
Member since Sep 28th 2005
19846 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 02:18 PM

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32. "i dont know why you're surprised"
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

you have two players with similar skills. one is arguably the most beloved athlete of all time regardless of sport...the other is probably the most disliked and polarizing figure the nba has ever seen.

you have something as crystal clear to any unbiased observer who's watched enough of both of them play - kobe being a better pure shooter - something that numerous basketball heads, be it current/former coaches/players, a good amount who have coached/played against/with both mj and kobe have agreed with, something all these people had to put aside their undying love and admiration for jordan to even admit...including one phil jackson who's coached both guards almost a combined 20 years...and its being denied here. niggaz wanna give mj the edge in everything, from every skill and leadership to looks and likeability with his teammates. you even got niggaz in here coppin pleas on why kobe's a better 3 pt shooter lol.

you honestly think if kobe had lebron's image and likeability this specific debate would be going the same way?

_________________________

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 02:25 PM

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33. "You're Kobestanasian, but you're 1000% correct. "
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

>you have two players with similar skills. one is arguably the
>most beloved athlete of all time regardless of sport...the
>other is probably the most disliked and polarizing figure the
>nba has ever seen.

This is partly it.

People just refuse to even consider that their personal
disdain for Kobe influences how they view his game.

>you have something as crystal clear to any unbiased observer
>who's watched enough of both of them play - kobe being a
>better pure shooter - something that numerous basketball
>heads, be it current/former coaches/players, a good amount who
>have coached/played against/with both mj and kobe have agreed
>with, something all these people had to put aside their
>undying love and admiration for jordan to even
>admit...including one phil jackson who's coached both guards
>almost a combined 20 years...and its being denied here. niggaz
>wanna give mj the edge in everything, from every skill and
>leadership to looks and likeability with his teammates. you
>even got niggaz in here coppin pleas on why kobe's a better 3
>pt shooter lol.

Yep.

And when they DO admit that Kobe is a better 3pt shooter,
its a throw in:

"Eh, Kobe's a better 3pt shooter, but Jordan can dunk better,
post better, pass better, defend better, eat pussy better, cook
better, play Madden on PS3 better, rap better..."

I mean, goddamn.

Long range shooting is a MAJOR fucking part of being a
complete scorer. Kobe is a *far* better long range
shooter.

FAR better.

And niggas either DON'T ADMIT IT, or throw it in like
its random.


>you honestly think if kobe had lebron's image and likeability
>this specific debate would be going the same way?

No, you're 100% correct.


----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86672 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 03:13 PM

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52. "Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa, you're 100% wrong here."
In response to Reply # 33


  

          


>And when they DO admit that Kobe is a better 3pt shooter,
>its a throw in:
>
>"Eh, Kobe's a better 3pt shooter, but Jordan can dunk better,
>post better, pass better, defend better, eat pussy better,
>cook
>better, play Madden on PS3 better, rap better..."
>
>I mean, goddamn.

NO ONE SAID JORDAN EATS PUSSY BETTER THAN KOBE. Even Jordan's biggest fans would never in a million years claim that he munches rug like Kobe. Willie Winguy is Cunnie Linguy, and they know it from LA to Denver and beyond.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 03:18 PM

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55. "*DEAD* *DEAD* *DEAD*"
In response to Reply # 52


  

          

>
>>And when they DO admit that Kobe is a better 3pt shooter,
>>its a throw in:
>>
>>"Eh, Kobe's a better 3pt shooter, but Jordan can dunk
>better,
>>post better, pass better, defend better, eat pussy better,
>>cook
>>better, play Madden on PS3 better, rap better..."
>>
>>I mean, goddamn.
>
>NO ONE SAID JORDAN EATS PUSSY BETTER THAN KOBE. Even Jordan's
>biggest fans would never in a million years claim that he
>munches rug like Kobe. Willie Winguy is Cunnie Linguy, and
>they know it from LA to Denver and beyond.


GODDAMN



----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
85076 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 04:12 PM

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93. "ahahahahahahaha."
In response to Reply # 52


  

          

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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bigpo
Member since Aug 08th 2003
4498 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 02:36 PM

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36. "Dead on LB.....DEAD ON"
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

"MY FOOD FOR THOUGHT SO HOT IT GIVE YOU DUDES ULCERS."
JAY Z

  

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vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
20388 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 02:54 PM

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42. "this post isn't about who's a better 3/pt shooter, it says" who is the b..."
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

scorer. And just because Kobe shoots way more 3's than Jordan ever did doesn't mean he's a better "scorer."

If as I said, during most of MJ's career the 3/pt shot was from a farther distance. And you can't tell me that doesn't factor in when comparing their outside shots. (Bird once said the same thing when asked about Dennis Scott breaking the all time 3/pt shots made)

I seriously doubt that Kobe could have dominated MJ's era the way MJ did. No one can refute that MJ was more efficient; MJ was more explosive; MJ put up 30+ ppg and did so while shooting over 50% for his career. I don't think some of you all realize how impressive that is from someone that wasn't a center. Kobe has never even sniffed shooting 5o% FOR ONE SEASON but somehow mofos want to anoint him as being a greater scorer than MJ...to me, efficiency matters more than range. And lastly, can you imagine if MJ was playing in Kobe's era where the rules have been made to favor the offensive players?



>you have two players with similar skills. one is arguably the
>most beloved athlete of all time regardless of sport...the
>other is probably the most disliked and polarizing figure the
>nba has ever seen.

can't say that isn't factor in for some but I seen Jordan play from day 1 and I've seen Kobe play from day 1 and in all honesty, I can't see how you or anyone else is going to say that Kobe is a better scorer than MJ. I think if MJ was concerned about records he could have shattered a lot of scoring records but everything he did was for the purpose of winning.
>
>you have something as crystal clear to any unbiased observer
>who's watched enough of both of them play - kobe being a
>better pure shooter - something that numerous basketball
>heads, be it current/former coaches/players, a good amount who
>have coached/played against/with both mj and kobe have agreed
>with, something all these people had to put aside their
>undying love and admiration for jordan to even
>admit...including one phil jackson who's coached both guards
>almost a combined 20 years...and its being denied here. niggaz
>wanna give mj the edge in everything, from every skill and
>leadership to looks and likeability with his teammates. you
>even got niggaz in here coppin pleas on why kobe's a better 3
>pt shooter lol.

Like I said, Kobe shoots way more from the 3/pt area than MJ ever did...so from that standpoint, Kobe is better but Kobe is so much more streakier than Jordan ever was. Jordan hardly ever had shooting slumps the way Bean does...which is why his fg% was so high even though he was the league leading scorer. I'm sure all these player/coaches/GMs/sports writers you cite would take MJ over Kobe if this same question was put to them. And dudes be saying AI is a ballhog but that has also been Kobe's rep for a significant part of his career. In all honestly, NO ONE EVER called MJ a ballhog because he was making most of his shots and he was still the best passing 2-guard in the league.
>
>you honestly think if kobe had lebron's image and likeability
>this specific debate would be going the same way?

the result would be the same...and to be fair, fam, you're only in your early twenties which mean you didn't really get to see MJ in his prime. You had to watch the man night in and night out to fully grasp how dominant MJ was.(YOUTUBE clips don't count)...so I can completely understand why you're saying Kobe is the "best pure perimeter scorer." LOL





grassrootsphilosopher

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 03:09 PM

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49. "WRONG!!!! NIGGAS don't know the BASIC FACTS!! HAHAHAH"
In response to Reply # 42


  

          


Seriously - does anyone in here know anything about the
NBA?

At all?

>If as I said, during most of MJ's career the 3/pt shot was
>from a farther distance. And you can't tell me that doesn't
>factor in when comparing their outside shots. (Bird once said
>the same thing when asked about Dennis Scott breaking the all
>time 3/pt shots made)

Uh -

The NBA line shortened for 3 seasons:

94-95
95-96
96-97

Kobe played ONE SEASON(his rookie year) with the
shortened 3 point line. Jordan played in all 3.

This is the problem. You guys don't know the very basics.

You don't have the very fundamentals down.

You fuck those up, and are misfiring on them because you
are trying to CREATE a reason why this isn't a legitimate
debate.

It *is* a legit debate and REGARDLESS OF WHO YOU THINK IS
THE BETTER SCORER, it is a CLOSE FUCKING COMPARISON.

So please, faggots -- MISS ME with the "Jordan is better,
and it ain't close" bullshit.


>I seriously doubt that Kobe could have dominated MJ's era the
>way MJ did. No one can refute that MJ was more efficient; MJ
>was more explosive; MJ put up 30+ ppg and did so while
>shooting over 50% for his career. I don't think some of you
>all realize how impressive that is from someone that wasn't a
>center. Kobe has never even sniffed shooting 5o% FOR ONE
>SEASON but somehow mofos want to anoint him as being a greater
>scorer than MJ...to me, efficiency matters more than range.
>And lastly, can you imagine if MJ was playing in Kobe's era
>where the rules have been made to favor the offensive
>players?

Okay, if efficiency and FG% are the issues, than Shaq is a
better pure scorer than Jordan is.

You wanna know why that's wrong?

Because we're talking about PURITY. About ALL AROUND
ABILITY TO SCORE.

And EVERYTHING MUST BE TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT.

Kobe has at LEAST as good a mid-range game, and a FAR
BETTER long range game.

Not debatable.




----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
20388 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 03:20 PM

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56. "you mad?"
In response to Reply # 49


  

          









































































































































why?



















>
>Seriously - does anyone in here know anything about the
>NBA?

I ask myself everytime I read one of your post about AI/Lebron. lol
>
>At all?

>The NBA line shortened for 3 seasons:
>
>94-95
>95-96
>96-97
>
>Kobe played ONE SEASON(his rookie year) with the
>shortened 3 point line. Jordan played in all 3.

foh...this is such a *lame* argument. By the 1994-95 season, MJ had already logged in 10 seasons in the NBA...playing with the longer distance 3/pt shot. And Kobe played NEVER played when the 3/pt line was 5-6 inches more in the 80's.
>
>This is the problem. You guys don't know the very basics.

read above thread: seems that you're the one who doesn't have the basics in that lame argument you just tried to make.
>
>You don't have the very fundamentals down.

bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah
>
>You fuck those up, and are misfiring on them because you
>are trying to CREATE a reason why this isn't a legitimate
>debate.

read above thread:
>
>It *is* a legit debate and REGARDLESS OF WHO YOU THINK IS
>THE BETTER SCORER, it is a CLOSE FUCKING COMPARISON.

No, it's not as close as you and others are trying to make it out to be. A career 50% shooter vs. a guy never ever shot above 46%.
>
>So please, faggots -- MISS ME with the "Jordan is better,
>and it ain't close" bullshit.

Mad????








































why?
>
>
>>I seriously doubt that Kobe could have dominated MJ's era
>the
>>way MJ did. No one can refute that MJ was more efficient; MJ
>>was more explosive; MJ put up 30+ ppg and did so while
>>shooting over 50% for his career. I don't think some of you
>>all realize how impressive that is from someone that wasn't
>a
>>center. Kobe has never even sniffed shooting 5o% FOR ONE
>>SEASON but somehow mofos want to anoint him as being a
>greater
>>scorer than MJ...to me, efficiency matters more than range.
>>And lastly, can you imagine if MJ was playing in Kobe's era
>>where the rules have been made to favor the offensive
>>players?
>
>Okay, if efficiency and FG% are the issues, than Shaq is a
>better pure scorer than Jordan is.
>
>You wanna know why that's wrong?
>
>Because we're talking about PURITY. About ALL AROUND
>ABILITY TO SCORE.
>
>And EVERYTHING MUST BE TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT.
>
>Kobe has at LEAST as good a mid-range game, and a FAR
>BETTER long range game.
>
>Not debatable.
>
>
>
>
>----------------------------
>
>http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others
>
>
>O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.
>
>
>"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."
>
>(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

grassrootsphilosopher

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 03:30 PM

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60. "LMAO!!!! WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?!?!?! LMAO LMAO"
In response to Reply # 56
Tue Jul-14-09 03:32 PM by Orbit_Established

  

          

>foh...this is such a *lame* argument. By the 1994-95 season,
>MJ had already logged in 10 seasons in the NBA...playing with
>the longer distance 3/pt shot. And Kobe played NEVER played
>when the 3/pt line was 5-6 inches more in the 80's.

The ling is 23ft 9in NOW. It was 23ft 9in BEFORE 1994.

When was the line, during the Jordan years, longer
than 23 ft 9 in feet?





















































































































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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH




Niggas DON'T KNOW THE FUCKING BASICS UP IN THIS
PIECE, GOD



----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
41249 posts
Wed Jul-15-09 09:26 PM

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209. "I think every poster knows this , most just won't admit it lol"
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

>you have two players with similar skills. one is arguably the
>most beloved athlete of all time regardless of sport...the
>other is probably the most disliked and polarizing figure the
>nba has ever seen.

>you honestly think if kobe had lebron's image and likeability
>this specific debate would be going the same way?

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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thoughtprocess
Member since Nov 16th 2003
22223 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 01:50 PM

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24. "i like how you're fair by saying confirm/debunk, but then say "myth""
In response to Reply # 0


          

>lol, Kobestanis wont let up!
>
>i mean, we've already put the asinine "Kobe just as
>good/better than MJ" myth to pasture.. now Kobe fanboys are
>saying he's a better scorer
>
>exactly what aspect of his scoring repetoire is better than
>MJ's?
>
>
>
>
>

  

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SirLau
Charter member
5517 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 02:04 PM

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28. "RE: Lets confirm/debunk the 'Kobe is a better SCORER than MJ" myth"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Anyone gonna talk about the fact that Jordan played a good deal of his career in the hand check era? Now granted Jordan got alot of "star" calls but so does Kobe.

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 02:41 PM

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39. "Uh. Kobe gets *none* of Jordan's treatment from the Refs. "
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

>Anyone gonna talk about the fact that Jordan played a good
>deal of his career in the hand check era?

So I guess you're going to ignore that Kobe did his in the
zone defense era, eh?

I mean, wow.

>Now granted Jordan
>got alot of "star" calls but so does Kobe.

This is what I mean. You guys don't watch basketball. Kobe
Bryant's relationship with the refs is nothing like Jordan's.
Not even close.


----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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FortifiedLive
Member since Dec 26th 2006
9984 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 04:36 PM

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109. "lol."
In response to Reply # 39


  

          


>This is what I mean. You guys don't watch basketball. Kobe
>Bryant's relationship with the refs is nothing like Jordan's.
>Not even close.

_______________________________________

<<progressions.

  

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bigpo
Member since Aug 08th 2003
4498 posts
Wed Jul-15-09 10:08 AM

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197. "no where near the treatment...which helps mikes shooting %"
In response to Reply # 39


  

          

tremendously in comparison to kobe.

"MY FOOD FOR THOUGHT SO HOT IT GIVE YOU DUDES ULCERS."
JAY Z

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Tue Jul-14-09 02:44 PM

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40. "Oh, and a message to the "Hand-Check Police": "
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Jul-14-09 03:00 PM by Orbit_Established

  

          

I just wanted to let you know that you're free to
completely ignore the fact that Kobe is playing in
an era where zone defense is legal, while Jordan
played in an era where it was completely illegal.

Yeah, so Kobe faces actual defensive coaching,
and scheming, while such scheming in Jordan's
era was basically relegated to "out-right double
team" or "Put Joe Dumars on him."

But please - feel free to ignore the facts.




----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
20388 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 02:57 PM

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44. "And there isn't or hasn't been 1 team in Bean's era whose defense"
In response to Reply # 40


  

          

could even remotely compare with the "Bad Boys" defense...not ever close, including the Spurs/Celtics/or the 2004 Pistons.

grassrootsphilosopher

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Tue Jul-14-09 03:02 PM

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46. "LOL. Did Jordan face the Bad Boys every night for his whole career? "
In response to Reply # 44


  

          



There is no debate here. It is harder to put up great
individual numbers on zone defenses.

And Kobe has faced them every single night since
2001.

There is no debate. You're wrong, so please, be
quiet.


----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
20388 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 03:09 PM

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50. "you're the one who mentioned the Pistons 1st. (zone defense? really"
In response to Reply # 46


  

          

>
>
>There is no debate here. It is harder to put up great
>individual numbers on zone defenses.
>
>And Kobe has faced them every single night since
>2001.
>
>There is no debate. You're wrong, so please, be
>quiet.

I guess you forget that Kobe played with a guy by the name of Shaquille Oneal for more than HALF OF HIS CAREER...which means teams didn't focus their defenses on Kobe night in and night out like they did for MJ FROM DAY ONE.




So I'm right and you need to hush ya mouth with that lame argument. lol









































































































































grassrootsphilosopher

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 03:17 PM

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54. "LOL. So now we're supposed to BLAME Kobe for playing with Shaq? "
In response to Reply # 50


  

          



Awesome logic.

>I guess you forget that Kobe played with a guy by the name of
>Shaquille Oneal for more than HALF OF HIS CAREER...which means
>teams didn't focus their defenses on Kobe night in and night
>out like they did for MJ FROM DAY ONE.

Michael Jordan never played on a team like the 2009 Lakers
facing zone defenses every night.

End of discussion.

Jordan isn't putting up no 37,35, or 30 ppg against on a
WINNING TEAM that faces zone defenses that are designed
to stop him specifically.

Kobe just won a championship under those conditions.

You guys can kick and scream all you want.


----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
20388 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 03:35 PM

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62. "foh...this ain't about "blame" this is just pointing out a fact that can..."
In response to Reply # 54


  

          

be discounted when you compare two players who play in a team sport.

And to ignore it or dismiss it as not being relevant once again shows who knows about the game and who doesn't.
>Awesome logic.

>Michael Jordan never played on a team like the 2009 Lakers
>facing zone defenses every night.

And Jordan NEVER shot 43% from the field in a championship series either. Gm 4 Bean shot 11-31 from the field! I never seen MJ shot that horrid from the field in a championship game. None of these teams in this years playoffs can compare with the team defense that teams played in the 80's during Jordan's era....LOL...I'll take the 1997 and 1998 Jazz defense over *any* team that the Lakers faced in this year's playoffs. Zone defense? really?
>
>End of discussion.

yeah, you should stop....
>
>Jordan isn't putting up no 37,35, or 30 ppg against on a
>WINNING TEAM that faces zone defenses that are designed
>to stop him specifically.

what?? gtfohwtbs!....LOL at Orlando shutting down MJ with their "zone defense."
>
>Kobe just won a championship under those conditions.

And he managed to do so while shooting 43% from the field. Funny how you're always trying to make the argument that AI is a ballhog and takes too many shots but Bean fg% is just as bad...and he's the guy with this unmatched work ethic.

MJ/ 50% for his career

Kobe/45% for his career

I'm going with the 50% guy


grassrootsphilosopher

  

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LBs Finest
Member since Sep 28th 2005
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Tue Jul-14-09 03:58 PM

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75. "El, i got these box score links on auto-reply at this point lol"
In response to Reply # 62


  

          

>And Jordan NEVER shot 43% from the field in a championship
>series either. Gm 4 Bean shot 11-31 from the field! I never
>seen MJ shot that horrid from the field in a championship
>game.

unfortunately, i have. i watched him shoot 41% in 96,

http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_1996_finals.html

shooting as low as 26% in one game...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/199606160CHI.html

and watched him shoot less than 43% in 98:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_1998_finals.html

no one distinctly remembers any of this because, for the 95th time, NO ONE GIVES A FUCK ABOUT FG% IF YOU'RE THE FINALS MVP.

_________________________

  

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El_essence
Charter member
24899 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 04:03 PM

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80. "^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^LOLOLOLOLOL^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^"
In response to Reply # 75


  

          


-----------------

"Dawg, this is the greatest case of scorned vaginas in OKS history.."

LegacyNS on OKS AI nuthuggers who hate on Kobe and the Lakers.

  

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vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
20388 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 04:04 PM

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81. "RE: El, i got these box score links on auto-reply at this point lol"
In response to Reply # 75


  

          

>>And Jordan NEVER shot 43% from the field in a championship
>>series either. Gm 4 Bean shot 11-31 from the field! I never
>>seen MJ shot that horrid from the field in a championship
>>game.
>
>unfortunately, i have. i watched him shoot 41% in 96,

I saw that "game" but what did he shoot for the entire series?
>
>http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_1996_finals.html
>
>shooting as low as 26% in one game...

A game, yeah, but never for a season did he shoot below 45% for a season or in the finals.
>
>http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/199606160CHI.html
>
>and watched him shoot less than 43% in 98:
what series?
>
>http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_1998_finals.html
>
>no one distinctly remembers any of this because, for the 95th
>time, NO ONE GIVES A FUCK ABOUT FG% IF YOU'RE THE FINALS MVP.

yeah, except when its AI. Efficiency does matter, especially if the question is being asked who is the better scorer between the two.

grassrootsphilosopher

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 04:10 PM

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88. "*record scratch* - when was AI NBA Finals MVP? "
In response to Reply # 81


  

          


>>no one distinctly remembers any of this because, for the
>95th
>>time, NO ONE GIVES A FUCK ABOUT FG% IF YOU'RE THE FINALS
>MVP.
>
>yeah, except when its AI. Efficiency does matter, especially
>if the question is being asked who is the better scorer
>between the two.


Oh, and Ole boy is ethering the shit out of you
and demolishing your arguments.

Jordan didn't shoot that well in that finals.
Jordan was still a monster. End of discussion.


----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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El_essence
Charter member
24899 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 04:11 PM

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90. "RE: El, i got these box score links on auto-reply at this point lol"
In response to Reply # 81


  

          

>I saw that "game" but what did he shoot for the entire series?

41% was for the series fam.
He also shot 42% another finals.

L

  

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LBs Finest
Member since Sep 28th 2005
19846 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 04:28 PM

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102. "lol *SMH*"
In response to Reply # 81
Tue Jul-14-09 04:30 PM by LBs Finest

  

          

>>>And Jordan NEVER shot 43% from the field in a championship
>>>series either. Gm 4 Bean shot 11-31 from the field! I never
>>>seen MJ shot that horrid from the field in a championship
>>>game.

"Gm 4 Bean shot 11-31 from the field!"

^^^^GAME, singular.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/199606160CHI.html

^^26%. nba finals, game 6.

"I never seen MJ shot that horrid from the field in a championship game."

^^^^championship GAME, singular. 26%. nba finals. maybe you didn't watch the 96 finals?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/199606120SEA.html

31%, same series, game 4.

>I saw that "game" but what did he shoot for the entire series?

ummm, probably 41%, which is the percentage i just stated he shot in that series.

lol im guessing you didn't explore that link. if you did you might have noticed it shows he went 51 for 123 from the field, which..now this is just a guess...is his overall amount for the six games he played in that series. i mean i doubt he could manage that many shots in one game, even taking into account how much of a ballhog he was.

>
>>
>>http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_1996_finals.html
>>
>>shooting as low as 26% in one game...
>
>A game, yeah, but never for a season did he shoot below 45%
>for a season or in the finals.

LOL wrong again, 96 and 98 finals.

>>
>>http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/199606160CHI.html
>>
>>and watched him shoot less than 43% in 98:
>what series?
>>
>>http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_1998_finals.html
>>
>>no one distinctly remembers any of this because, for the
>95th
>>time, NO ONE GIVES A FUCK ABOUT FG% IF YOU'RE THE FINALS
>MVP.
>
>yeah, except when its AI.

lol what? he was never finals mvp.

Efficiency does matter, especially
>if the question is being asked who is the better scorer
>between the two.
>

well apparently only one has shot sub-par in the finals...or so i've heard.

_________________________

  

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justin_scott
Charter member
19864 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 10:39 PM

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161. "i love these moments"
In response to Reply # 102


          

someone says something completely wrong, then gets proven wrong, then changes the subject, then gets burned worse!

************************************************************

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
26425 posts
Wed Jul-15-09 08:51 AM

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184. "it hurts when i'm agreeing with idiots"
In response to Reply # 161


  

          

the correct response was:

"but did he ever lose a series when he did that?"

i mean, anyone could have seen that from a mile away. except that one cat. lol.

-----------
mas que un club

08-09 Survivor Champion.

"I mean, I can pigeonhole people because I'm close-minded. But I'm special and different." (c) Walleye

  

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vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
20388 posts
Fri Jul-17-09 01:23 PM

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222. "ok, now lets look at the numbers:"
In response to Reply # 102
Fri Jul-17-09 01:37 PM by vee-lover

  

          

>>>>And Jordan NEVER shot 43% from the field in a
>championship
>>>>series either. Gm 4 Bean shot 11-31 from the field! I
>never
>>>>seen MJ shot that horrid from the field in a championship
>>>>game.
>
>"Gm 4 Bean shot 11-31 from the field!"
>
>^^^^GAME, singular.

I was *wrong* about the percentage comment but if you notice...MJ was definitely off that game but he still only took 19 shots as compared to Kobe's 31...and if you notice the entire team shot only 39% from the field in a what was a very low scoring game. (87-75)

And lets not forget...THAT GAME WAS PLAYED ON FATHER'S DAY AND THIS WAS HIS 1ST SEASON BACK SINCE HIS FATHER WAS MURDERED AND WHO COULD FORGET THE SCENE OF JORDAN RUNNING TO THE LOCKER ROOM AFTER THE FINAL HORN SOUNDED AND LAYING ON THE GROUND CLUTCHING THE BALL AND CRYING UNCONTROLLABLY.(I know some of you will say this is copping pleas but I don't see how you could disregard that fact especially when you're singling this game out to show that MJ didn't shoot well)
>
>http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/199606160CHI.html
>
>^^26%. nba finals, game 6.

Read above thread: ^^^^^
>
>"I never seen MJ shot that horrid from the field in a
>championship game."
>
>^^^^championship GAME, singular. 26%. nba finals. maybe you
>didn't watch the 96 finals?

no, the real question is whether *you* actually watched the championship series? Like I said, MJ shot horrible in 2 of those games in the 96 finals...game 4 & 6....which skews the overall average because he shot pretty well in the rest of the 4 games.
>
>http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/199606120SEA.html
>
>31%, same series, game 4.

As I said, games 4 & 6 he shot really bad but the other 4 games in that series he shot right at .480%.

-gm 1: (9-18)
-gm 2: (9-22)
-gm 3: (11-23)
-gm 4: (*6-19*)
-gm 5: (11-22)
-gm 6: (*6-19*) father's day game
>
>>I saw that "game" but what did he shoot for the entire
>series?
>
>ummm, probably 41%, which is the percentage i just stated he
>shot in that series.
>
>lol im guessing you didn't explore that link. if you did you
>might have noticed it shows he went 51 for 123 from the field,
> which..now this is just a guess...is his overall amount for
>the six games he played in that series. i mean i doubt he
>could manage that many shots in one game, even taking into
>account how much of a ballhog he was.

>>A game, yeah, but never for a season did he shoot below 45%
>>for a season or in the finals.
>
>LOL wrong again, 96 and 98 finals.

I already talked about the 96 finals. The 98 finals he didn't shoot well either but if you notice...you're highlighting Jordan's *worst* shooting performances in a playoffs/finals game when he was 33 & 35 yrs. of age. Yes, he did have some series where he didn't shoot over 50% but in his prime he usually stayed above or very near 50%...and that's including the regular season and playoffs.

Kobe on the other hand, has NEVER shot 50% for ONE season in his career...playoffs or regular seasons.
>
>>>
>>>http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/199606160CHI.html
>>>
>>>and watched him shoot less than 43% in 98:
>>what series?
>>>
>>>http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_1998_finals.html
>>>
>>>no one distinctly remembers any of this because, for the
>>95th
>>>time, NO ONE GIVES A FUCK ABOUT FG% IF YOU'RE THE FINALS
>>MVP.

you may be right but if we're going to compare Jordan and Kobe as *scorers* then I think you have to look at fg% because they are similar in size and have similar skill sets. So you have to look at the areas of their games that separate them from one another and fg% is mos def a way to distinguish who is the better scorer.

Kobe shoots more 3's and he's more of a volume shooter than MJ even though MJ scored at a higher clip. Kobe tends to be streaky as a scorer but when he's *on* he ranks with the best shooters.

Kobe has taken twice as many 3's as MJ but he pct. from 3-pt land is about 32% and MJ's was about 32% as well. They both can post up and play with their backs to the basket but there again, MJ was just more effective, percentage wise, than Kobe has ever been.

But I still say that it's NOT enough to just compare parts of their game to determine who is the better scorer because MJ was GREATER THAN THE SUM OF HIS PARTS. There are some things that just can't be measured when it comes to MJ's greatness. I think he had more competitive fire in his belly than Kobe....MJ's 1st step was faster and more explosive than Kobe....MJ had greater stamina than Kobe which is partly the reason why I think Kobe has always shot a low pct. from the field because he can't sustain his attack for a full game the way MJ could on a night to night basis... I also think MJ had a much higher basketball IQ than Kobe does which is why I think he took much smarter shots than Kobe...And lastly, something that oftentimes gets overlooked is the fact that MJ had BIGGER HANDS which I think gave him a bit more creativity around the basket.

This is not hating on Kobe but it's pointing out, at least from my point of view, that MJ was most definitely the purer scorer of the two and it really isn't as close as some of you want it to be.

Or let me put it another way: Shaq is the only player, since Jordan, that I can remember that just completely dominated the game to the point there was nothing the opposing defender or any team defense could do to stop him to the point teams starting going to the "hack-a-Shaq."

And Shaq's dominance from his 4 yr.window from my count (2000-04) wasn't anywhere NEAR in my mind what MJ's dominance was from (1984-1993)...He was still dominant from (1996-1998) but he adjusted his game more at that stage than in his early years when he was pretty much a one man team.

grassrootsphilosopher

  

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El_essence
Charter member
24899 posts
Fri Jul-17-09 01:29 PM

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223. "^^^3 DAYS LATER = L ^^^"
In response to Reply # 222


  

          


-----------------

"Dawg, this is the greatest case of scorned vaginas in OKS history.."

LegacyNS on OKS AI nuthuggers who hate on Kobe and the Lakers.

  

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vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
20388 posts
Fri Jul-17-09 01:50 PM

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224. "I'm sorry but don't I have time to sit on a message board all day"
In response to Reply # 223


  

          

and respond to internet conversations that are really inconsequential to anything. lol

Didn't know there was a time limit on when you can respond to someone on here.

It ain't that serious homey....

grassrootsphilosopher

  

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El_essence
Charter member
24899 posts
Fri Jul-17-09 09:17 PM

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245. "The fact that it took you 3 days to respond with nothing but pleas"
In response to Reply # 224
Fri Jul-17-09 09:18 PM by El_essence

  

          

is the funniest part. You were flat our wrong. end of discussion. All the other shit you wrote is irrelevant. all you doing now is trying save face. For someone who is too busy to post on okp for 3 days after getting murked, you sure wasted a shitload of time writing that bullshit.

  

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LBs Finest
Member since Sep 28th 2005
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Fri Jul-17-09 07:17 PM

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228. "lol"
In response to Reply # 222


  

          

your whole post was plea cops left and right.

you were wrong, get over it. you've been wrong often

_________________________

  

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vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
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Sat Jul-18-09 01:11 PM

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264. "I was wrong about whether Jordan shot less than 50% in a series or"
In response to Reply # 228


  

          

a game...and you cited 3 series in which he had...ok, but that still wasn't the basis of the discussion. Was Kobe a better scorer than MJ? No. And the rest of my earlier points in the previous thread was laying that out.

I'm just trying to figure out on what grounds do you make that claim that he's a better scorer than MJ?

And as I said, it's difficult having a conversation with someone who *didn't* see Jordan play from day one but yet you have followed every move of Kobe's career. I've seen both play from day one and I can say w/o hesitation that Jordan is a better scorer than Kobe, period. Is Kobe amongst the all time great perimeter scorers? Of course...but he ain't seeing MJ and this ain't about "Kobe hate" either.

So while I WAS WRONG about Jordan's fg% in a game/series, I'm still right in the larger argument...and that is: JORDAN IS THE BETTER SCORER OF THE TWO AND IS THE GREATEST PERIMETER SCORER THE GAME HAS EVER HAD.

I lose the battle but I win the war.

grassrootsphilosopher

  

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JAESCOTT777
Member since Feb 18th 2006
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Tue Jul-14-09 04:44 PM

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115. "lmao"
In response to Reply # 75


  

          

  

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LegacyNS
Member since Jan 16th 2004
38095 posts
Wed Jul-15-09 08:48 AM

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182. "great work gumshoe.. - LOL"
In response to Reply # 75


  

          


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- NOPE!!! CAN'T WIN A RING WITHOUT D. FISH!!

  

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The Mac
Member since Feb 11th 2008
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Tue Jul-14-09 03:54 PM

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72. "LMAO..."
In response to Reply # 54


          

Cause I'm doing better now, don't mean I never lost shit/ I was married to a state of mind and I divorced it -- Black Thought

  

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Z
Member since Jun 01st 2006
122 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 02:58 PM

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45. "after watching both of them play or many years, i can say that face-up,"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

15 ft & out kobe is better without a doubt..at least in my opinion. as overall players however, taking
leadership, defense, basketball IQ, overall understanding of the game, etc into account..its MJ all day.

  

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LBs Finest
Member since Sep 28th 2005
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47. "THANK YOU...that's exactly what i've been saying since 03"
In response to Reply # 45


  

          

_________________________

  

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auragin_boi
Member since Aug 01st 2003
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Tue Jul-14-09 03:26 PM

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57. "Maybe from 20 feet out"
In response to Reply # 45


  

          

20 feet in (Basically the college 3 point area) MJ was more consistent.

____________

  

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LBs Finest
Member since Sep 28th 2005
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59. "to the people copping pleas about kobe being a better 3 point shooter.."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

please watch these 3 videos..they're not long:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7iN2gsm67M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsFCLBda7P0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCiLuE2twKk

lol forget MJ, have you ever seen anyone make 3's like that? ever? i mean, maaaybe bird?

_________________________

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Tue Jul-14-09 03:31 PM

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61. "And its okay to ignore that the 3ball is more important in the zone era"
In response to Reply # 59


  

          


Because its the only way to effectively and consistently
stretch a defense.

Jordan would have been plugged in the lane in today's
NBA. He's HAVE TO SHOOT more jumpshots.


----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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LBs Finest
Member since Sep 28th 2005
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Tue Jul-14-09 03:41 PM

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66. "lmao, niggaz talking about the luxury of a shortened 3 pt line and yet "
In response to Reply # 59


  

          

considering you got kobe over here with hands in his face knockin down 28 footers like they're free throws, you couldn't make a statement as irrelevant as that if you tried.

_________________________

  

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vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
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Tue Jul-14-09 03:47 PM

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69. "so you're going to use a few clips to make your argument that Kobe is"
In response to Reply # 66


  

          

a better scorer when I'm sure you've seen Kobe put up blanks from long distance as well. This is why I say he too streaky of a scorer to be considered a "better scorer" than MJ.


>considering you got kobe over here with hands in his face
>knockin down 28 footers like they're free throws, you couldn't
>make a statement as irrelevant as that if you tried.

Like I said for all this talk about Kobe's superior shooting he still shot 45% in the playoffs and 43% in the finals.

A few youtube clips notwithstanding, MJ is still a better more efficient scorer, plain and simple.

grassrootsphilosopher

  

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PIMPINCHICAGO
Member since Mar 11th 2003
7441 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 03:56 PM

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74. "and to you..."
In response to Reply # 59


  

          




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sY8uQfuvpMI


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVI2B9c1okA


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnCU185XYHc


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ye-0ghhY7uw
Jordan @38 years old showing a complete game and range





  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
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Tue Jul-14-09 03:38 PM

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63. "i got a clean as pure as Ivory...nothing less...nothing more"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

all this bean is a "purer" shooter is bullshit.

it reminds me of the ivory soap claim "99.44% pure". Pure what? why the fuck does that matter? My much nicer soap is not 99.44% pure...you know why? it smells better than Ivory. And I'd rather the soap that smells better than the "pure" floating crap that is Ivory.

jordan scored more, scored more efficiently, and that's even after factoring in differences in average scoring for the league, i believe*. until someone can explain how a better scorer does it less and less efficiently than another person, i'll refuse to believe it.

Well, no. I could believe that. Perhaps that pure scorer is a PG (oh, wait, bean's a ball hog), or perhaps not the #1 option due to there being a veteran or something (shit, that doesn't apply either), or maybe plays in a very different offense (oh shit, same damn offense), or does some moves the other guy couldn't compare to (oh, wait...no...jordan made those moves up that bean practices. and he has that fall-away for those other moves kobe created). well, fuck. in this case, willie's got no out.

*i only did back of envelope calculations for a couple random years. someone else can do more if they choose, but it ain't worth it.

-----------
mas que un club

08-09 Survivor Champion.

"I mean, I can pigeonhole people because I'm close-minded. But I'm special and different." (c) Walleye

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
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Tue Jul-14-09 03:39 PM

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64. "fun game, btw:"
In response to Reply # 63


  

          

how large is the difference in:

-jordan's best 3 point shooting year and kobe's
-jordan's 3 point % average and kobe's

just for fun.

-----------
mas que un club

08-09 Survivor Champion.

"I mean, I can pigeonhole people because I'm close-minded. But I'm special and different." (c) Walleye

  

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auragin_boi
Member since Aug 01st 2003
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Tue Jul-14-09 04:06 PM

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82. "Here we go:"
In response to Reply # 64
Tue Jul-14-09 04:24 PM by auragin_boi

  

          

Bean:
Career from 3: 1204 for 3528 = 34% from 3 for career
Best season from 3: 51 for 136 = 37.5% (his rookie yr)
Most prolific 3pt season = 180 for 518 = 34.7%

Career shooting avg minus 3pointers:

7052 for 14634 = 48%

Cheesy:
Career from 3: 581 for 1778 = 32.7%
(minus the 3 shortened line seasons: 343 for 1189 = 28.9%)
(Of note here, the line was 22 feet when shortened...from 23.9, during those 3 seasons, MJ was 238 for 589 = 40%)
Best Season from 3: 111 for 260 = 42.7 %* (Shortened line season) *with minimum 40 games
(best season with reg line: 92 for 245 = 37.6%)
Most prolific 3pt season = 111 for 297 = 37% (Shortened line season)
(most prolific with reg line: 92 for 245 = 37.6%)

Career shooting avg minus 3 pointers:

11611 for 22759 = 51%

____________

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
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89. "i meant to say guess without checking, but that was still fun, right?"
In response to Reply # 82


  

          


-----------
mas que un club

08-09 Survivor Champion.

"I mean, I can pigeonhole people because I'm close-minded. But I'm special and different." (c) Walleye

  

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The Mac
Member since Feb 11th 2008
1493 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 04:20 PM

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95. "So Cheesy also shoots better from 3, basically?"
In response to Reply # 82


          

LOL...I figured Kobe AT LEAST had him beat there, and figured the %'s would back it up, never taking the time to do the research.

Thanks though, now I know that Mike really did it ALL better LOL

Cause I'm doing better now, don't mean I never lost shit/ I was married to a state of mind and I divorced it -- Black Thought

  

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LBs Finest
Member since Sep 28th 2005
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Tue Jul-14-09 03:45 PM

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68. "by this logic both lebron and wade are now better scorers than kobe"
In response to Reply # 63


  

          

until someone can explain how a better
>scorer does it less and less efficiently than another person,
>i'll refuse to believe it.

i mean, im not surprised you're basing your arguments on statistical analysis, it's what you do. but this aint baseball.

_________________________

  

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vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
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Tue Jul-14-09 03:52 PM

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71. "but you just used some YOUTUBE clips to make your case that"
In response to Reply # 68


  

          

Kobe is a better shooter/scorer than MJ. lolololol....I'm sorry but I would rather rely on stats that a few youtube clips to vouch for whose better.

grassrootsphilosopher

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 04:00 PM

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77. "This coming from the guy who doesn't know the 3pt line distance. "
In response to Reply # 71


  

          


You've lost authority on the topic, chief.

----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
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Tue Jul-14-09 04:07 PM

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84. "RE: This coming from the guy who doesn't know the 3pt line distance. "
In response to Reply # 77


  

          

I'm off work now but we will continue this discussion later.




























































































































































































And by the way, you lost any authority you *attempted* to have when you brought up "zone defense." lol

PURA VIDA...PURE LIFE IN COSTA RICA

grassrootsphilosopher

  

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LBs Finest
Member since Sep 28th 2005
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Tue Jul-14-09 04:01 PM

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78. "actually i used youtube clips for one aspect, 3 point shooting"
In response to Reply # 71


  

          

you tried to bring that bs '3pt line was farther back then' argument like this nigga kobe's out here tip-toeing the 3 point line and shit.

_________________________

  

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The Mac
Member since Feb 11th 2008
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Tue Jul-14-09 04:11 PM

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92. "Fam, I can make myself look like Ray Allen on Youtube.."
In response to Reply # 78


          

You can show me as many 3's as you want, nobody gives a fuck about not Youtube videos

Cause I'm doing better now, don't mean I never lost shit/ I was married to a state of mind and I divorced it -- Black Thought

  

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LBs Finest
Member since Sep 28th 2005
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Tue Jul-14-09 04:35 PM

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108. "lol, you can make 30 foot threes in an nba game on youtube?"
In response to Reply # 92


  

          

_________________________

  

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The Mac
Member since Feb 11th 2008
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"I may have a few that I can compile in a highlight reel LOL"


          

Cause I'm doing better now, don't mean I never lost shit/ I was married to a state of mind and I divorced it -- Black Thought

  

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LBs Finest
Member since Sep 28th 2005
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141. "have you been this bad a poster since you started?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

_________________________

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
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85. "so you don't want to?"
In response to Reply # 68


  

          

ok. cool.

beyond that, MJ is clearly in a different league from those two. to wit (and using statistics):

-wade is a stupid comparison. he outscored bryant this year, but no other year. these things happen once in a while (it's a basic fact of statistics). talk to me when it happens more than once, mmkay? wade's method of scoring, also, is far too reckless and while he's a better corer at the moment, he's also more likely to get injured from it. that's not true of jordan, so let's move on to the harder target...lebron:

-lebron has outscored kobe 2 times now in a row. now, this would be a problem for me, except i believe lebron is a better scorer. remember which side of that debate i'm on? right.

so again, explain what "pure scoring" is and why it means "kobe's better", please let's not go on unnecessary tangents again. or, when making an empirical claim "kobe is better from X feet out" please provide actual evidence, and not just anecdotal youtubes. please.

-----------
mas que un club

08-09 Survivor Champion.

"I mean, I can pigeonhole people because I'm close-minded. But I'm special and different." (c) Walleye

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Tue Jul-14-09 04:21 PM

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96. "LOL. That's one of the stupidest things I've ever seen in my life. "
In response to Reply # 85


  

          


LOL -

You're arbitrarily setting up criteria and rules so that
the result fits your dumbass inclination and feeling.

Haha...fucking retarded, in fact.

>-wade is a stupid comparison. he outscored bryant this year,
>but no other year.

He's been comparable to Kobe Bryant for several years,
actually. Wade was hurt last year, but two years ago put
up 27 a game, and 30 a game this year. Two years ago Kobe
put up 31, and 27 this year. In their last two healthy
seasons, they've been the same.

This year was not an "outlier," Einstein. Wade's been
a terrific scorer, worthy of placement in this discussion,
for a long time.

>these things happen once in a while (it's a
>basic fact of statistics). talk to me when it happens more
>than once, mmkay? wade's method of scoring, also, is far too
>reckless and while he's a better corer at the moment, he's
>also more likely to get injured from it. that's not true of
>jordan, so let's move on to the harder target...lebron:

LOL - so you're using Wade's injuries as an argument
against him....how?

Remember the 2006 NBA Finals? You know, the one with the
most dominant scoring performance from a wing player since
Michael Jordan?

Not sure what statistical test allows for "plea copping,"
but that's exactly what you just did.

>-lebron has outscored kobe 2 times now in a row. now, this
>would be a problem for me, except i believe lebron is a better
>scorer. remember which side of that debate i'm on? right.

Than Kobe?

Wrong.

You just created a false criteria that the player you
are comparing to Kobe must have a higher scoring average
than Kobe in order for you to use their overall FG% as
instrumental in determining if he's a better pure scorer.

You then turn around and say that said player must pace
Kobe in points/game for more than one season in order
for you to take the comparison seriously.

That's arbitrary and stupid.

Dwayne Wade has been comparable to Kobe for several years.

If you're going to use the FG% argument, than use it, and don't
arbitrarily set up elimination criteria so that the result fits
your dumbass bias.

Jesus Christ you guys are idiots.


Sorry, I just don't like when people do stupid things while
trying to sound smart.


Its worse than just being stupid and sounding stupid.

----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
26425 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 04:44 PM

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113. "LMFAO at you calling anything i said in this thread stupid"
In response to Reply # 96


  

          

>You're arbitrarily setting up criteria and rules so that
>the result fits your dumbass inclination and feeling.

my dumbass inclinations? this is when you go in on me? at this point. i'm flattered it took you so long to finally decide to face someone who has been remarkably consistent here.

>He's been comparable to Kobe Bryant for several years,
>actually. Wade was hurt last year, but two years ago put
>up 27 a game, and 30 a game this year. Two years ago Kobe
>put up 31, and 27 this year. In their last two healthy
>seasons, they've been the same.

ok. so two seasons. the "wade scores in a way that makes him injury prone" explanation is still valid.
>
>This year was not an "outlier," Einstein. Wade's been
>a terrific scorer, worthy of placement in this discussion,
>for a long time.

find me where i say "outlier", chief, and i'll apologize for that. i'll wait.

>LOL - so you're using Wade's injuries as an argument
>against him....how?

dwayne wade scores by recklessly throwing his body into the lane. that reckless endangerment is good for his scoring, except when it leaves to inevitable injury. which is why he doesn't play full seasons, and, therefore, a worse scorer. good scorers don't get injured so often. don't bring up MJ's lost season, btw.

>Remember the 2006 NBA Finals? You know, the one with the
>most dominant scoring performance from a wing player since
>Michael Jordan?

^now that is what is commonly called "arguing from anecdote" and most of the time, we people with any intellect just KIM at that point.

>Not sure what statistical test allows for "plea copping,"
>but that's exactly what you just did.

^^^O_E fail right there.

>Than Kobe?
>
>Wrong.

dawg. dawg. this is where it gets comical.

>You just created a false criteria that the player you
>are comparing to Kobe must have a higher scoring average
>than Kobe in order for you to use their overall FG% as
>instrumental in determining if he's a better pure scorer.

umm...no i didn't. i've said that a better scorer will do two things:
-score more (if not as much)
-score more efficiently

>You then turn around and say that said player must pace
>Kobe in points/game for more than one season in order
>for you to take the comparison seriously.

well, yeah. because anyone can have one epic season. and you're still arguing about wade vs. kobe here which is dumb.

>That's arbitrary and stupid.

you're arbitrary and dumb! in other words, make a fucking case that jordan's stats aren't the end all and be all of proof that jordan is the better scorer. you can't. you can only say kobe has more range or is prettier or some other bullshit that isn't "kobe is a better scorer".

>Dwayne Wade has been comparable to Kobe for several years.

that's nice. he also can't play a full season.

^^^that's called an important component of being a better scorer. being able to be on the court the whole season.

>If you're going to use the FG% argument, than use it, and
>don't
>arbitrarily set up elimination criteria so that the result
>fits
>your dumbass bias.
>

you are so mad. my god. you're still comparing wade to kobe. really? you think that's the entirety of my point? my god.

>Jesus Christ you guys are idiots.

see, what you decided to do was try to score a point instead of engage the more nuanced understanding of better scorer (with thanks to LB for making me adjust the oversimplified formula) . perhaps there should be more critieria, but right now, the three valid criteria are:
-scores more
-scores more efficiently
-stays healthy.

disagree with any of those three? want to add one? want to prove kobe is better using them?

>Sorry, I just don't like when people do stupid things while
>trying to sound smart.

funny how ironic that sounds to me, right?

>Its worse than just being stupid and sounding stupid.

congrats. it's been a while since i actually laughed out loud at okaysports. thanks.

this reminds me of two things:
1. you argue out of bad faith a lot here. you look for the "gotcha" and run with it. it's not just annoying, it's arguably disrespectful of your fellow posters. but, we all know that won't change, so whatever.
2. the old adage...when you have the facts, pound the facts. when you have the law on your side, pound the law. when you have neither, pound the table." That table you're sitting out has got a whole bunch of dents, don't it?

*waits for you to call me mad*

-----------
mas que un club

08-09 Survivor Champion.

"I mean, I can pigeonhole people because I'm close-minded. But I'm special and different." (c) Walleye

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 05:07 PM

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125. "Hey - don't hate me because I'm beautiful. "
In response to Reply # 113


  

          


>my dumbass inclinations? this is when you go in on me? at this
>point. i'm flattered it took you so long to finally decide to
>face someone who has been remarkably consistent here.

No, but you're finagling statistical reasons that are
stupid and wrong and passing them off for real and
honest. They're not.

>ok. so two seasons. the "wade scores in a way that makes him
>injury prone" explanation is still valid.

Uh - Wade played 79 games this year the same way(Lebron
played 75 games last year, btw).

And besides, you're introducing an ADDITIONAL ARBITRARY
elimination criteria:

- That your offensive game doesn't lend to injury.

Guess what?

Any player who plays above the rim is *highly* subject to hurting
themselves.

>dwayne wade scores by recklessly throwing his body into the
>lane.

LOL -

Have you ever watched Wade play?

What in flying fuck are you talking about?

Wade is disgustingly skilled, smart, and savvy.

>that reckless endangerment is good for his scoring,
>except when it leaves to inevitable injury. which is why he
>doesn't play full seasons, and, therefore, a worse scorer.
>good scorers don't get injured so often. don't bring up MJ's
>lost season, btw.

LOL - INJURIES HAPPEN IN SPORTS, toughman.

And Lebron PLAYS THE SAME FUCKING WAY. The only difference
is that because Lebron is BIGGER, he often dishes out the
punishment.

In fact, Lebron is probably MORE "RECKLESS" than Wade is.

I mean, goddamn -

Let's look at your elimination criteria to be "in the
discussion" for better pure scorer:


a)You have to have a higher scoring average than Kobe
for two seasons

b) If you weigh less than 240 lbs, you can't be a
slasher who gets to the free throw line.


Is that a one-tailed or two-tailed bullshit plea cop?


^^^^^^^BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Those are stupid and completely fucking arbitrary.

Dwyane Wade deserves to be in this conversation. You are
eliminating him SOLELY BECAUSE HIS PLACEMENT ETHERS YOUR
DUMBASS FG% argument. By doing so, you CREATED an elimination
criteria to fit your bias.

Wow

>^now that is what is commonly called "arguing from anecdote"
>and most of the time, we people with any intellect just KIM at
>that point.

LOL - but yet its okay for you to conjure, out of thin air,
reasons why Wade doesn't deserve to be in the conversation.


*shrugs*


>well, yeah. because anyone can have one epic season. and
>you're still arguing about wade vs. kobe here which is dumb.


Uh - I ALREADY SHOWED YOU, and everyone who WATCHES BALL
KNOWS that Wade is not the author of "one epic season,"
einstein.


>^^^that's called an important component of being a better
>scorer. being able to be on the court the whole season.

Hey, watch this:

How many seasons did Lebron James play a full 82 games?





































































Oh.









>you are so mad. my god. you're still comparing wade to kobe.
>really? you think that's the entirety of my point? my god.

No, my point is to make you mad. The fact that I'm right
makes it easier, but I'm just using my mad-making muscles.

>see, what you decided to do was try to score a point instead
>of engage the more nuanced understanding of better scorer
>(with thanks to LB for making me adjust the oversimplified
>formula) . perhaps there should be more critieria, but right
>now, the three valid criteria are:

>-scores more

>-scores more efficiently

>-stays healthy.

Can score in the greatest number of ways, offensive
diversity

Can dominate in pressure situations(Dwyane Wade devours
this point, given his entire 2006 playoff performance)

Can dominate within the flow of an organized offense,
or better yet, can dominate even when they're not the
primary ball handler.

The last point is a critical one, because its why players
like Steve Francis fell apart when they left systems where
they handled the ball all of the time.

Jordan was great because he *still* dominated after the
triangle offense was introduced.

Kobe has played almost exclusively with the triangle.

Lebron? Handles the ball all the time, and jacks up shots
at his will. That system is similar to the one young Jordan
played in, where he put up video game numbers for losing
teams.


>disagree with any of those three? want to add one? want to
>prove kobe is better using them?

I don't care. I just want to make you mad, because what you
did was stupid.


>congrats. it's been a while since i actually laughed out loud
>at okaysports. thanks.

Mad.


>this reminds me of two things:
>1. you argue out of bad faith a lot here. you look for the
>"gotcha" and run with it. it's not just annoying, it's
>arguably disrespectful of your fellow posters. but, we all
>know that won't change, so whatever.

LOL - I see the steam coming through the screen, doggie.

>2. the old adage...when you have the facts, pound the facts.
>when you have the law on your side, pound the law. when you
>have neither, pound the table." That table you're sitting out
>has got a whole bunch of dents, don't it?


Fam - look at how you posted.

Trying to come up in here all smarty-pantsy, acting like
a dickhead.

Don't do that.

If you post some shit, its fair game. Don't get mad at me
AFTER the fact, doggie dogg.

----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
26425 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 05:30 PM

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134. "wow, you really spent some time thinking up some hot bullshit"
In response to Reply # 125


  

          

i'm flattered. i'll just take the highlights of this whine-fest for now.

>No, but you're finagling statistical reasons that are
>stupid and wrong and passing them off for real and
>honest. They're not.

lmao. your whole beef is because i created what i will now affectionately call the "wade test". This test precludes from discussion of "best scorer" those athletes who cannot stay healthy for a full season regularly. (more on "full season" in a bit).

>Uh - Wade played 79 games this year the same way(Lebron
>played 75 games last year, btw).

fun with numbers time!

average games played by lebro 9
average by wade: 66
wade's best year: 79
again, average year for lebron: 79.

>And besides, you're introducing an ADDITIONAL ARBITRARY
>elimination criteria:
>
>- That your offensive game doesn't lend to injury.

well, no...that's the entire point of the "wade test". now, when he can regularly play a full season and function as a better scorer than kobe, we can talk. but one year ain't enough. two years interrupted by two seasons with injury ain't enough.

>Wade is disgustingly skilled, smart, and savvy.

did i deny that? no. did you create another strawman? yep.

>And Lebron PLAYS THE SAME FUCKING WAY. The only difference
>is that because Lebron is BIGGER, he often dishes out the
>punishment.

so, in other words...lebron has the right body for that scoring type, and dwayne doesn't. so which is "better"? I'll go with the one who scores + dishes punishment, thanks.

>In fact, Lebron is probably MORE "RECKLESS" than Wade is.

except that he doesn't get himself injured because he's fucking bigger than the cats defending him.

>b) If you weigh less than 240 lbs, you can't be a
>slasher who gets to the free throw line.

no, that's not the wade test. you have to regularly play more than 90% of the games in a season, otherwise you're too injury prone to be better than a player who doesn't miss 10%+ of the season. damn that was easy. damn, wade doesn't pass. oh well.

>Those are stupid and completely fucking arbitrary.

so is anything in this entire post. mine, at least, is testable. your points are just angered.

>Dwyane Wade deserves to be in this conversation. You are
>eliminating him SOLELY BECAUSE HIS PLACEMENT ETHERS YOUR
>DUMBASS FG% argument. By doing so, you CREATED an elimination
>criteria to fit your bias.

ok, so include wade in the conversation. fine. He's worse because he can't stay healthy, and his style of scoring is directly connected to that problem. thus, his scoring is "worse" because it is more likely to lead to injury and missed time.

>LOL - but yet its okay for you to conjure, out of thin air,
>reasons why Wade doesn't deserve to be in the conversation.

out of thin air? I looked at the stats and one jumped out at me: Wade misses games. so i noted that.

>How many seasons did Lebron James play a full 82 games?

oh shit is this a stupid red herring. but you're damn proud. in fact it made me go create my own red herring. Name a single year (other than the year before lebron was in the NBA) in which Wade played more games than Lebron. he did beat kobe once, i'll give him that.

>No, my point is to make you mad. The fact that I'm right
>makes it easier, but I'm just using my mad-making muscles.

>Can score in the greatest number of ways, offensive
>diversity

why? why does that make one a better scorer? that's been my point from the start...diversity doesn't actually matter. but we've been through this countless times and neither side ever agrees, so we'll just move on after recognizing that this was your entire agenda when post about my wade test.

>Can dominate in pressure situations(Dwyane Wade devours
>this point, given his entire 2006 playoff performance)

lol. pressure situations...ok, well, clearly then MJ shits on Kobe on this criteria. so add it if you want. it only helps my original point. i still think it's overrated (like the concept of "clutch"), but whatever.

>Can dominate within the flow of an organized offense,
>or better yet, can dominate even when they're not the
>primary ball handler.

nope. and if so, then wade's in trouble here too. either way, MJ still doing fine. but i see and applaud the LBJ hate here.

>The last point is a critical one, because its why players
>like Steve Francis fell apart when they left systems where
>they handled the ball all of the time.

well thanks for another unnecessary tangent. i'll just avoid this one entirely.

>Kobe has played almost exclusively with the triangle.

>Lebron? Handles the ball all the time, and jacks up shots
>at his will. That system is similar to the one young Jordan
>played in, where he put up video game numbers for losing
>teams.

i'm still waiting for any of this to relate to kobe vs. MJ except to say MJ better.

>I don't care. I just want to make you mad, because what you
>did was stupid.

damn shame that it wasn't tho.

>Mad.

deflecting? no, wait...diverting.

>LOL - I see the steam coming through the screen, doggie.

you should shut your computer off then...something must be wrong with the fan.

>Fam - look at how you posted.
>
>Trying to come up in here all smarty-pantsy, acting like
>a dickhead.

no, actually, i've been having a ball. look at my first couple of posts. i was crackin jokes. then you came at me all smarty-pantsy claiming my point was all wrong because of what i said about wade getting injured a lot compared to lebron, kobe, or MJ and now look how much less fun this post is. my original post about toxins was hilarious, if i do say so myself.

>If you post some shit, its fair game. Don't get mad at me
>AFTER the fact, doggie dogg.

doggie dogg? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. *daps for the hilarity*


-----------
mas que un club

08-09 Survivor Champion.

"I mean, I can pigeonhole people because I'm close-minded. But I'm special and different." (c) Walleye

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Wed Jul-15-09 08:33 AM

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177. "LOL You're the statistical equivalent of a bad gymnast. "
In response to Reply # 134


  

          


You stay fucking up the landing. I mean, WOW.

You stay mad, too.

But for serious:
Your definition of "pure scorer," automatically eliminates
small players who score lots of points by driving to the basket
and creating contact.

So basically, your "who is the best scorer" question decomposes
into the bullshit, arbitrary:

"Who is the best scorer who does not drive the lane consistently
and draw contact regularly unless they are Lebron James' size"

LOL

LOL

LOL

Why else am I right? Because pure durability has nothing to
do with the question of "who is the best pure scorer."

Durability might play a role in "who is the best player" or
"which player would you build a team around."

It, however, has nothing to do with "Who is the best pure
scorer."

"Who is the best pure scorer" is a basic fucking question.

You've just invented criteria, again, to fit your bias.

Even further, if Dwyane Wade plays healthy next year and
puts up 30/game, you'll STILL try to eliminate him from the
discussion on the basis of the fact that "his style leads
directly to injury"

Haha

Haha

Just admit that you're wrong, doggie

Seriously

Fortunately, we've sniffed it out and pissed on it.





----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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LBs Finest
Member since Sep 28th 2005
19846 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 05:13 PM

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129. "so wait...and im just trying to follow your fool-proof logic here"
In response to Reply # 85
Tue Jul-14-09 05:18 PM by LBs Finest

  

          

>-lebron has outscored kobe 2 times now in a row. now, this
>would be a problem for me, except i believe lebron is a better
>scorer. remember which side of that debate i'm on? right.

so if dwyane wade maintains a higher shooting % next year while scoring more ppg, something he's certainly in a good position to do considering he's healthy and his cast is weaker than his top competitors' cast for the scoring title, thus meaning he's have to shoulder more of the scoring load than the other top guys, he will then have surpassed kobe as an offensive weapon? in fact, he'd then have to had also surpass your #1 scorer prince james as well, no? since he scored more points a game while also being more efficient despite taking more shots?

in fact wade has been more efficient overall from the field than both kobe and lebron from pretty much day 1.

>
>so again, explain what "pure scoring" is and why it means
>"kobe's better", please let's not go on unnecessary tangents
>again. or, when making an empirical claim "kobe is better from
>X feet out" please provide actual evidence, and not just
>anecdotal youtubes. please.

that clip of kobe was in response to the claim that the only reason kobe shot better from deep was because the 3 pt line was farther back in mj's days, which i now admit showing you guys in essence was a waste of time on my part, considering that statement was proven to be patently false

_________________________

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 05:24 PM

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133. "Hahaha...ETHER"
In response to Reply # 129


  

          

>>-lebron has outscored kobe 2 times now in a row. now, this
>>would be a problem for me, except i believe lebron is a
>better
>>scorer. remember which side of that debate i'm on? right.
>
>so if dwyane wade maintains a higher shooting % next year
>while scoring more ppg, something he's certainly in a good
>position to do considering he's healthy and his cast is weaker
>than his top competitors' cast for the scoring title, thus
>meaning he's have to shoulder more of the scoring load than
>the other top guys, he will then have surpassed kobe as an
>offensive weapon? in fact, he'd then have to had also surpass
>your #1 scorer prince james as well, no? since he scored more
>points a game while also being more efficient despite taking
>more shots?

Haha

Well done



----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
26425 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 05:36 PM

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137. "well, actually, believe it or not"
In response to Reply # 129


  

          

but yes. if wade can do it again, i might claim wade's a better scorer. now, the advanced statistics claim that lebron was more efficient than wade (wade is a much worse 3 point shooter), but they were certainly close this season. i'd say the two were equal scorers this season, but that because lebron hasn't gotten significantly injured and had weak seasons from it, i'd give the crown to lebron currently.

>that clip of kobe was in response to the claim that the only
>reason kobe shot better from deep was because the 3 pt line
>was farther back in mj's days, which i now admit showing you
>guys in essence was a waste of time on my part, considering
>that statement was proven to be patently false

that was a funny tangent. i took a shot just because i'm still waiting for "purity" to be explained. and goddam, why did the other mj supporters have to fuck up when its entirely irrelevant to the much better mj arguments? smh.

but none of this wade vs. lbj vs. kobe stuff has anything to do, actually, with kobe vs. mj.

-----------
mas que un club

08-09 Survivor Champion.

"I mean, I can pigeonhole people because I'm close-minded. But I'm special and different." (c) Walleye

  

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LBs Finest
Member since Sep 28th 2005
19846 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 05:58 PM

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139. "lol"
In response to Reply # 137
Tue Jul-14-09 06:01 PM by LBs Finest

  

          

drop the calculator and pick up the tv remote. if you watch enough laker games you'll clearly see kobe bryant is the best offensive weapon since His Airness.

we're in here debating kobe against arguably the finest scorer in history and you're over here saying one-dimensional lebron is a better scorer than kobe?

_________________________

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
26425 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 06:01 PM

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140. "^mad i'm being rational"
In response to Reply # 139


  

          

I'm a (white) celtics fan.

willie winguy can never NOT ONCE be directly complemented by me. It'd be both team and racial treason if i did.

never. nope. now wade better too to me.

(more than that: i don't watch miami games. because that team sucks and reminds me of the AI sixers in that they're crap surrounding one transcendent level talent and i worry it will all end in ugliness)

-----------
mas que un club

08-09 Survivor Champion.

"I mean, I can pigeonhole people because I'm close-minded. But I'm special and different." (c) Walleye

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 04:02 PM

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79. "And LMMFAO @ y'all trying to paint Kobe as a Dell Curry-type shooter"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


Y'all acting like Kobe wasn't one of the most EXPLOSIVE
players ever in his own right.

LOL @ "Kobe couldn't get in the paint and finish"

LOL @ "Kobe couldn't break you down off the dribble"


LOL


LOL


LOL


LOL


LOL


LOL


Retards

----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
26425 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 04:09 PM

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87. "we're comparing him to MJ, not to dell curry"
In response to Reply # 79


  

          

you keep bringing him up, we'll keep knocking the strawman

(note: some of these defenses of mj are stupid)

(note extended: but, cmon. like money man said, cmon)
-----------
mas que un club

08-09 Survivor Champion.

"I mean, I can pigeonhole people because I'm close-minded. But I'm special and different." (c) Walleye

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 04:11 PM

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91. "No, niggas are dismissing the diversity in Kobe's offensive game. "
In response to Reply # 87


  

          


Kobe's offensive game is wildly creative, and he's
far more explosive than he's being given credit for.

Its getting really gay in here.

----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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The Mac
Member since Feb 11th 2008
1493 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 04:12 PM

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94. "You're the biggest gay here nm"
In response to Reply # 91


          

Cause I'm doing better now, don't mean I never lost shit/ I was married to a state of mind and I divorced it -- Black Thought

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 04:22 PM

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97. "^^Tutti Fruity"
In response to Reply # 94


  

          


Fam, nothing wrong with your gayness.

Rep it.

Its all love(not that kind, though, least not from me)




























































































































Mad?
----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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The Mac
Member since Feb 11th 2008
1493 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 04:27 PM

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100. "Not mad, mostly amused by your stupidity and cockiness...."
In response to Reply # 97


          

Cause I'm doing better now, don't mean I never lost shit/ I was married to a state of mind and I divorced it -- Black Thought

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 04:29 PM

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103. "Did you just make reference to my cock? Back off, son. "
In response to Reply # 100


  

          


I don't play that, in life, or on the internet.

----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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The Mac
Member since Feb 11th 2008
1493 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 04:31 PM

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104. "Precisely!"
In response to Reply # 103


          

Cause I'm doing better now, don't mean I never lost shit/ I was married to a state of mind and I divorced it -- Black Thought

  

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ErnestLee
Member since Mar 03rd 2003
28533 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 05:24 PM

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132. "lol. Actually you do"
In response to Reply # 103


  

          

You reference your manhood round here on the regular. On a male dominated sports board, there aint enough *pauses* in the world for your wild homo tendencies. Between you and SPM, we need an OGhey Sports Board for sure.

---------------------------------------------------------

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Wed Jul-15-09 08:20 AM

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173. "LOL. Its the internet. Why you're so sensiive about it, I don't know. "
In response to Reply # 132


  

          

>You reference your manhood round here on the regular.

I'm glad you're keeping track.

>On a
>male dominated sports board, there aint enough *pauses* in the
>world for your wild homo tendencies.

I talk about pussy. I also talk about you being mad,
and how Darko played with a band-aid over his ear. Not
sure why any one of those things is a portal to my
real world thinking than the other.

I like talking shit. I like pussy. I like making
niggas mad.

*shrug*




----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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analog2digital
Charter member
3597 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 04:31 PM

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105. "Nope, If you're not as explosive as MJ, you're just not explosive period"
In response to Reply # 79
Tue Jul-14-09 04:34 PM by analog2digital

  

          

*rolls eyes*

I'm sure Craig Ehlo could tell the difference between getting dusted by MJ and getting dusted by Kobe. One guy is a 10 the other is a 9.5.

They're not playing each other, they're playing the rest of a league that isn't anywhere CLOSE to them.

Very, VERY few players have been on their level when it comes to getting whatever shot they want.

The explosion gap between them is MUUUUCH narrower than the shooting gap.

And I'm STILL picking Mike. But facts is facts. Bean's a better shooter.

  

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auragin_boi
Member since Aug 01st 2003
20939 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 04:38 PM

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110. "Make up your mind"
In response to Reply # 79
Tue Jul-14-09 04:38 PM by auragin_boi

  

          

>Y'all acting like Kobe wasn't one of the most EXPLOSIVE
>players ever in his own right.
>
>LOL @ "Kobe couldn't get in the paint and finish"
>

Is it this or can he not get to the basket cuz of zone defenses?

And what about you neglecting the fact that up until 2004 (so Kobe's first what 8 yrs in the league) he didn't have to face ONE fucking double team so long as Shaq was healthy. Wouldn't that make it EASIER for him to score/break guys down?

And only 3 of those 'one on one' seasons happened after the 'zone' rule.

It's funny how Kobe's shooting percentage drops for 3 seasons after Shaq leaves when teams can focus on HIM. But then he figures out how to play against focused defenses and his percentage increases.

It's also funny that he shot 46% most yrs prior to AND after the zone rule...damn, that zone rule really changed the game.

FOH with your lilly pad hopping as defenses

____________

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 04:42 PM

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112. "Uh. I can do two things at once, sparky. "
In response to Reply # 110


  

          


>Is it this or can he not get to the basket cuz of zone
>defenses?

Uh. Kobe is one of the great wing players at getting
to the wing of our time.

Its just *harder* to do so in the zone era than in the
illegal defense era.

>And what about you neglecting the fact that up until 2004 (so
>Kobe's first what 8 yrs in the league) he didn't have to face
>ONE fucking double team so long as Shaq was healthy. Wouldn't
>that make it EASIER for him to score/break guys down?

Okay. Too bad Kobe's been scoring better since Shaq left.

Kobe's had to shoot more long distance shots after Shaq
Left, because he needs to stretch the defense. He didn't
have to do that with Shaq there.




See how easy that was?

>It's also funny that he shot 46% most yrs prior to AND after
>the zone rule...damn, that zone rule really changed the game.

Uh, dipshit -- Kobe adapted and changed his game, dumbass. He's
an assassin for that reason. You can kill you many ways. Not
sure what the fuck is so difficult for you kids to understand.

Yowzers.




----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
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Tue Jul-14-09 04:45 PM

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116. "^adopting and changing his points"
In response to Reply # 112


  

          

yet i could never do that. nope. only O_E can clarify his statements when presented with a different point or interpretation.

lol.
-----------
mas que un club

08-09 Survivor Champion.

"I mean, I can pigeonhole people because I'm close-minded. But I'm special and different." (c) Walleye

  

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auragin_boi
Member since Aug 01st 2003
20939 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 05:32 PM

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135. "Hahahah...prove this fam"
In response to Reply # 112
Tue Jul-14-09 05:34 PM by auragin_boi

  

          

>Its just *harder* to do so in the zone era than in the
>illegal defense era.

Where's the proof besides your 'opinion'? Pull out some stats and I might agree. You don't think niggaz packed the LANE for MJ? Hell half his career he played with bums, if not most of it...so yeah we'll give stacy king a jumper and crash when MJ drives. Lest you forget, there WAS no defensive 3 sec rule so if your big ass, slow ass C stood next to the lane, his man could camp there and as soon as you drove he HAD to commit. And Luc Longley ain't hitting a 15 footer 10-15 times a game fam.

>Okay. Too bad Kobe's been scoring better since Shaq left.

Scoring MORE...not better, and he's only shot as well as he did with Shaq in the last 3 seasons, 3 before that were dips in FG% (including the 35ppg yr when he shot 45% which is his 5th lowest %)

>Kobe's had to shoot more long distance shots after Shaq
>Left, because he needs to stretch the defense. He didn't
>have to do that with Shaq there.

No he had to gun cuz his team was shit and opposing defenses focused on him. Didn't have shit to do with stretching D's. With him having the range he does, shooting 3's was one of the best ways for him to do that. The NBA 4 yrs ago wasn't full of many shut down defensive squads man.

>See how easy that was?

Easy to what? Pull shit out your ass and be wrong? Yeah I saw that.

>Uh, dipshit -- Kobe adapted and changed his game, dumbass.
>He's
>an assassin for that reason. You can kill you many ways. Not
>sure what the fuck is so difficult for you kids to
>understand.
>
>Yowzers.

Uh Kobe didn't adapt and change shit. He's a better passer (in the sense he understands 'what' pass to make as opposed to feeding Shaq) and his basketball IQ is higher now so he takes less 'idiot' shots.

That's ALL that changed, he still takes and makes the same shots he did from 1999 on.

Here's some fun with numbers jack ass:
1996 to 2001 Kobe took 14.5% of his shots from 3
2002 to 2009 Kobe took 22% of his shots from 3

So in the grand scheme of things, if Kobe shoots 20 times a game on avg, he takes 1.5 more 3's a game, WHOOPTIE DO, HE CHANGED HIS GAME TO THE TUNE OF 1.5 EXTRA 3'S A GAME...big fucking difference.

Now...prove that this isn't because Kobe got more shots cuz shaq is gone and just likes to launch and is due to the zone. And I KNOW you can't prove that kobe shoots more long range shots INSIDE the 3 nor can you effectively compare those to MJ's long range shot stats.

____________

  

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analog2digital
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117. "there are lies and then there are DAMNED LIES"
In response to Reply # 110


  

          


>And what about you neglecting the fact that up until 2004 (so
>Kobe's first what 8 yrs in the league) he didn't have to face
>ONE fucking double team so long as Shaq was healthy.

DAMNED LIE.



Wouldn't
>that make it EASIER for him to score/break guys down?


If it were true, but it's not.

>
>And only 3 of those 'one on one' seasons happened after the
>'zone' rule.
>
>It's funny how Kobe's shooting percentage drops for 3 seasons
>after Shaq leaves when teams can focus on HIM. But then he
>figures out how to play against focused defenses and his
>percentage increases.

It's also funny how you don't mention that his PPG also went WAY up for those 3 seasons. But that's cool, I saw what you did there. Gripe about percentage when his production OBVIOUSLY increased.

Shaq wasn't there for them 35 per, bruh. That was all Bean.


Be mad.

  

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LBs Finest
Member since Sep 28th 2005
19846 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 05:22 PM

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131. "lol yeah, i must admit auragin, this shit sounded real spm'ish"
In response to Reply # 117


  

          

>>And what about you neglecting the fact that up until 2004
>(so
>>Kobe's first what 8 yrs in the league) he didn't have to
>face
>>ONE fucking double team so long as Shaq was healthy.

you can argue your case but let's not get crazy now...

_________________________

  

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auragin_boi
Member since Aug 01st 2003
20939 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 05:36 PM

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136. "Well ya'll know what i meant...if teams wanted to double"
In response to Reply # 131


  

          

Shaq was the primary choice, Kobe secondary if at all.

MJ was always primary. Pip didn't command a double like Shaq does.

____________

  

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southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 06:45 PM

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145. "nope. i remember the finals bitch"
In response to Reply # 131


  

          

when rip and tay collapsed on kobe he looked like a fucking deer in the headlights
yea obviously he might have been doubled once or twice before 2004 , anyone got time to check his FG% when shaq was injured or something
but it wasn't until 2003 -2004 that teams began to straight up FOCUS on kobe
entire defensive schemes were designed to handle shaq before 2004
cmon

~~~~~~

  

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LBs Finest
Member since Sep 28th 2005
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Tue Jul-14-09 07:18 PM

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155. "i agree for the most part..but"
In response to Reply # 145
Tue Jul-14-09 07:59 PM by LBs Finest

  

          

i saw kobe score 56 points in 3 quarters in 02 without shaq on the court

just sayin...

_________________________

  

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LegacyNS
Member since Jan 16th 2004
38095 posts
Wed Jul-15-09 08:52 AM

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185. "didn't he also have his run of +30/+40 pt games in 04 when Shaq was out?"
In response to Reply # 155


  

          


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- NOPE!!! CAN'T WIN A RING WITHOUT D. FISH!!

  

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bigpo
Member since Aug 08th 2003
4498 posts
Wed Jul-15-09 10:07 AM

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196. "i also remember it was kobe leaving the offense"
In response to Reply # 145


  

          

that won the one game we did win...and shaq punk butt griped about it, Phil backed him and that being the only game we won.

"MY FOOD FOR THOUGHT SO HOT IT GIVE YOU DUDES ULCERS."
JAY Z

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
85076 posts
Wed Jul-15-09 11:13 AM

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202. "^truth"
In response to Reply # 196


  

          

if they arrogant asses woulda conceded to Kobe, we'd be talking about how mad niggas is gonna be when Kobe gets #6

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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The Money Man
Member since Feb 27th 2004
13938 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 04:07 PM

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83. "cmon"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

mj mj mj mj mj mj mj mj mj

  

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Selassie I God
Member since Feb 21st 2006
10355 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 04:25 PM

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99. "*comes in with plenty of H8 for both *"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

____
Some will tell you that they love you but they've got an ulterior motive - Oh what a shame
They will tell you that they need you but they've got an ulterior motive - Personal gain

(c) Luciano


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fg0-qndkemo

  

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FortifiedLive
Member since Dec 26th 2006
9984 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 05:04 PM

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124. "^^^walked in with a coat made of Juanita's and Vanessa's pubic hairs^^^"
In response to Reply # 99


  

          

hate hate hate.

_______________________________________

<<progressions.

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 04:47 PM

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118. "damn, i get on a plane, get off and this is already a shitstorm"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

jordan=marginally better from mid range, kobe=significantly better from three, jordan=smoother, kobe=sometimes greater degree of difficulty.

i will take efficiency and consistency over range and jordan used his scoring ability better to get his teammates involved in the prime of his career.

i dont know what is pure or not pure but jordan was a better scorer, period, by any quantitative standard and any qualitative measure apart from range and use of left hand. that is not to discount range but i will take a guy who gets to the basket and the line more, if anything kobe sometimes falls back on his jumper. there are few if any defenders who can take him out of a game but he can take himself out and he does it. jordan, no, he was out there to kill it every night, especially at this age.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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El_essence
Charter member
24899 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 04:50 PM

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119. "veelover = when making up shit goes wrong lol nm"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


-----------------

"Dawg, this is the greatest case of scorned vaginas in OKS history.."

LegacyNS on OKS AI nuthuggers who hate on Kobe and the Lakers.

  

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soundsop
Charter member
12988 posts
Wed Jul-15-09 09:51 AM

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192. "i've never seen someone take so many Ls while on the side that's right"
In response to Reply # 119


  

          

  

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LegacyNS
Member since Jan 16th 2004
38095 posts
Thu Jul-16-09 08:17 AM

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216. "that requires real effort doggy.."
In response to Reply # 192


  

          


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- NOPE!!! CAN'T WIN A RING WITHOUT D. FISH!!

  

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PimpMacula
Member since Dec 19th 2006
12972 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 04:57 PM

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122. "lol"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
21925 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 05:03 PM

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123. "this dumb shit again?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 05:08 PM

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127. "2000-2001 Ravens Defense >>>>> 1985-1986 Bears Defense. "
In response to Reply # 123


  

          


You ain't know?


----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
21925 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 05:44 PM

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138. "jerking off >>>>> pussy"
In response to Reply # 127


  

          

http://i28.tinypic.com/2luquqh.jpg

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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PimpMacula
Member since Dec 19th 2006
12972 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 07:09 PM

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147. "takeover >>>>> ether"
In response to Reply # 127
Tue Jul-14-09 07:11 PM by PimpMacula

  

          

nm

  

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PimpMacula
Member since Dec 19th 2006
12972 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 07:09 PM

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148. "coast >>>>> dr bronners magic soap"
In response to Reply # 127
Tue Jul-14-09 07:13 PM by PimpMacula

  

          

nm

  

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PimpMacula
Member since Dec 19th 2006
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Tue Jul-14-09 07:10 PM

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150. "hi-c >>>>> purple stuff"
In response to Reply # 127


  

          

  

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PimpMacula
Member since Dec 19th 2006
12972 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 07:10 PM

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151. "jar jar >>>>> chewbaka"
In response to Reply # 127


  

          

  

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PimpMacula
Member since Dec 19th 2006
12972 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 07:11 PM

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152. "full house >>>>> step by step"
In response to Reply # 127


  

          

  

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PimpMacula
Member since Dec 19th 2006
12972 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 07:15 PM

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154. "RE: 2000-2001 Ravens Defense >>>>> 1985-1986 Bears Defense. "
In response to Reply # 127


  

          

http://thehype.files.wordpress.com/2007/04/kobe-bryant.jpg >>>>> http://thebsreport.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/mrpeanut1.jpg

  

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ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 05:08 PM

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128. "^^^my thoughts exactly"
In response to Reply # 123


          

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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rl9
Charter member
4494 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 06:11 PM

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142. "lol @ the zone argument"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

acting like there is a team in the L that actually plays a college or euro-like zone for long stretches (i won't even say a whole game).
i won't say that he is not an all time elite scorer and my memory is subjective as anyone else's but the last time i remember kobe playing a series against a tough defensive team was in the 2008 finals and he didn't look good there at all.
one thing's 4 sure there's a kobestan in his personal zone here.
i won't even entertain the rest of the BS...waste of time to anyone that actually watched the game for the last 20+ years.

''i went from bashful to asshole to international''- CdoubleO

  

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Imokuede
Charter member
5180 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 07:10 PM

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149. "One of my favorite Knight quotes goes like this..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Knight-"you need to take Michael Jordan with your first pick, he is a future superstar".

Portland GM-"we need a center"

Knight-" play him at center"

Kinda sums up why I think Jordan is the GOAT and definitely a better player and scorer than Bean. He had more tools and was way better at using them. Dude was a straight surgeon out on the court. You could see him pacing himself out there on the court. 8 pts here 8 pts. there and next thing you know he had 32 points. The game just came to him easier than it does to Kobe.
______________________________
PSN ID - muzuabo

R.I.P. - The Curse

Let's hug it out bitch
www.lhiob.com

1918-2004

<-----Then you can't tell me nothing right!

  

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Lach
Charter member
44326 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 08:11 PM

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156. "Dude, you hit it right on the nose. That's what I'm sayin"
In response to Reply # 149


  

          

>Kinda sums up why I think Jordan is the GOAT and definitely a
>better player and scorer than Bean. He had more tools and was
>way better at using them. Dude was a straight surgeon out on
>the court. You could see him pacing himself out there on the
>court. 8 pts here 8 pts. there and next thing you know he had
>32 points. The game just came to him easier than it does to
>Kobe.

I'm like yeah, Kobe can make any shot. But he takes some shots that aren't very smart at all. You didn't see that with Jordan. Jordan got what he want when he wanted it against any defense.

  

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DJ Contact
Member since Oct 21st 2003
27857 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 10:56 PM

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162. "That's exactly how Jordan thought about scoring too."
In response to Reply # 149


  

          

>8 pts here 8 pts. there and next thing you know he had
>32 points.

Iono if you're paraphrasing him, but that's exactly what he's said before, that 32 points is only 8 points a quarter...when you think about it like that, the shit seems simple.

"You post like you look your barber in the eyes when he lines you up."

http://twitter.com/semiautomatic_C
PSN ID: killacontact_71

  

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melmag
Charter member
18469 posts
Fri Sep-17-10 11:35 PM

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553. "this fact can't be stressed enuff"
In response to Reply # 149


  

          


>The game just came to him easier than it does to Kobe.

the game just doesn't seem to come as natural to Kobe as it did Mike. Almost everything he does seems forced (almost to the point as if he's trying too hard), while MJ's seemed so effortless & graceful.I dunno, it could be the fact that I been spoiled watching MJ all these years, but that's doubtful. I've also witnessed less talented players with more natural flare for the game than Kobe.




  

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Lach
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44326 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 07:13 PM

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153. "If you don't bring intelligent shot selection into the discussion"
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Jul-14-09 07:14 PM by Lach

  

          

then yall aint discussing nothing at all. Kobe literally tries to score a lot. Shooting jumpers from everywhere. Some good jumpers and the majority bad. Now like O_E said, Kobe does have that ability to make many of those crazy shots which is he's Kobe. Let's be real about that. I agree, Kobe can make any kind of shot during a game. The problem is Kobe ALWAYS tries to make those crazy shots even when he clearly has a guy guarding him that can't do anything with him.

Jordan on the other hand would take whatever the D gave him and still get a quality shot off damn near every time. Most of which either amounted to a layup or his comfortable dead-on fadeaway. Even when he was a 137 years old. That's why you have so many games where Kobe goes 14-32 where as Jordan would go 15-25.

So if you're just going to say Kobe is a better scorer because he can make any shot than I can't agree. He's going to miss those shots the majority of the time. He'll just hit shot some when it seems there's no way he should be able to which gives life to people saying he's the better scorer. Sorry, I'll take the guy who can get an easy shot over any D than a guy who can sometimes make a terrific shot with D hanging on him. Cuz if you're D'd up right, you'll look like a guy who shoots too many jumpers and doesn't get to the paint enough like last year's finals.

Bottom line is, if I had to give the ball to one guy to take the last shot for the win or OT, it's going to Jordan. I have more confidence that he'll hit whatever necessary shot given the situation. And that's why he's Jordan.

  

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CanUooooFeeLiT
Member since May 11th 2005
2178 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 08:18 PM

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157. "RE: If you don't bring intelligent shot selection into the discussion"
In response to Reply # 153
Tue Jul-14-09 08:21 PM by CanUooooFeeLiT

  

          

I'd take Jordan but if he ain't availible I'm going with Kobe when it comes to 2 guards.

  

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ErnestLee
Member since Mar 03rd 2003
28533 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 11:46 PM

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163. "^^D.O.A."
In response to Reply # 153


  

          

Death of this Asininity.

^^^ First time I ever used "Asininity".

Despite being a shitty Shits fan, Lach just deaded this shit. From now on, I see this nonsense, I'm copynpasting this shit all day. Archive.

---------------------------------------------------------

  

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The Money Man
Member since Feb 27th 2004
13938 posts
Wed Jul-15-09 08:14 AM

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170. "Ernest, you been dropping jewels, son"
In response to Reply # 163


  

          

assininity

I love that

  

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rl9
Charter member
4494 posts
Wed Jul-15-09 09:01 AM

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188. "thank u"
In response to Reply # 153


  

          

''i went from bashful to asshole to international''- CdoubleO

  

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bigpo
Member since Aug 08th 2003
4498 posts
Wed Jul-15-09 10:12 AM

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198. "very sound argument...."
In response to Reply # 153


  

          

and I think there is two answers to this question.

thats why MJ is the best kobe is the most talented/skilled.

"MY FOOD FOR THOUGHT SO HOT IT GIVE YOU DUDES ULCERS."
JAY Z

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Wed Jul-15-09 11:58 AM

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204. "^^^^^SEE HOW EASY THIS WAS, KIDS? "
In response to Reply # 198


  

          

>and I think there is two answers to this question.
>
>thats why MJ is the best kobe is the most talented/skilled.

I don't even know if I entirely agree, but this post
was thought out and fair.

BigPo very well might be on to something.

  

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ne_atl
Charter member
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Thu Jul-16-09 08:09 AM

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215. "Lach, c'mon.....you're a 70's baby"
In response to Reply # 153


  

          

Are you going to tell me Jordan "ALWAYS" played like this or was it Phil who calmed his ass down to trust his teammates?


>Jordan on the other hand would take whatever the D gave him
>and still get a quality shot off damn near every time. Most of
>which either amounted to a layup or his comfortable dead-on
>fadeaway. Even when he was a 137 years old. That's why you
>have so many games where Kobe goes 14-32 where as Jordan would
>go 15-25.


___________________________________
http://instagram.com/mrellsberry

  

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jahlove7
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Thu Jul-16-09 09:18 AM

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218. "RE: Lach, c'mon.....you're a 70's baby"
In response to Reply # 215


  

          

>Are you going to tell me Jordan "ALWAYS" played like this or
>was it Phil who calmed his ass down to trust his teammates?

he did always play like that. remember, he had a coach in college named dean smith, so jordan knew how to play team ball well before he got to the nba.

mj understood shot selection even when he was hogging with the bulls. his years of shooting over 50% proves that.
>

inaugural member - okayplayer sports hall of fame.


what i'm digging right now:

chocolate butterfly - self-titled
laura jane - welcome to my planet boo
me & this japanese guy - waiting for the miracle
wade3 - dreams
tracey amos - who are we really?

  

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Lach
Charter member
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Thu Jul-16-09 11:23 AM

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220. "yep that's what I'm sayin"
In response to Reply # 218


  

          

I'll give them the Phil argument. But no one can say Phil made him a better offensive player. Bringing up Phil actually hurts their overall argument since Jordan was the epitome of offensive efficiency before Phil was coaching him even when he didn't even trust his teammates as much. Kobe on the other hand was chucking bad shots like Todd Day when he wasn't "trusting his teammates" before LA got back to elite status.

  

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ne_atl
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Sat Jul-18-09 01:12 AM

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254. "nope"
In response to Reply # 218


  

          

>>Are you going to tell me Jordan "ALWAYS" played like this
>or
>>was it Phil who calmed his ass down to trust his teammates?
>
>he did always play like that. remember, he had a coach in
>college named dean smith, so jordan knew how to play team ball
>well before he got to the nba.

Im sorry but I watched this dude in College and his entry into this league. He was a hot head on a bad team who took a LOT of bad shots.
>
>mj understood shot selection even when he was hogging with the
>bulls. his years of shooting over 50% proves that.

Using your ability to elevate over or around double and triple teams is good shot selection now?

___________________________________
http://instagram.com/mrellsberry

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
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Sat Jul-18-09 08:22 AM

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257. "if it works better than other people shooting? yes"
In response to Reply # 254


  

          


>Using your ability to elevate over or around double and triple
>teams is good shot selection now?


-----------
mas que un club

08-09 Survivor Champion.

"I mean, I can pigeonhole people because I'm close-minded. But I'm special and different." (c) Walleye

  

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Lach
Charter member
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Sat Jul-18-09 04:51 PM

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271. "are you honestly saying Jordan took worse shots than Kobe?"
In response to Reply # 254


  

          

and either way, Jordan at this stage of his career took WAAAAY better shots than we just watched Kobe take during these playoffs.

  

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jahlove7
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274. "RE: nope"
In response to Reply # 254


  

          

>Im sorry but I watched this dude in College and his entry into
>this league. He was a hot head on a bad team who took a LOT of
>bad shots.

then you didn't watch a lot of college games. jordan wasn't even the man as a freshman, james worthy was, and he got the majority of the shots. actually, jordan was the third option his freshman year, behind worthy and perkins.

and he took a lot of bad shots his rookie season when? most of his shots came from 15 feet and in. how many times did he chuck up shots while being doubled, or take bad threes he knew he couldn't hit? sounds more like kobe than mj.
>
>Using your ability to elevate over or around double and triple
>teams is good shot selection now?

it does when you can hit them. and jordan usually created his space for shots, he didn't challenge defenses to score over them every shot dude. he was just able to get off his own shot and kept shooting.

inaugural member - okayplayer sports hall of fame.


what i'm digging right now:

chocolate butterfly - self-titled
laura jane - welcome to my planet boo
me & this japanese guy - waiting for the miracle
wade3 - dreams
tracey amos - who are we really?

  

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Lach
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290. "yep"
In response to Reply # 274


  

          

>how many times did he
>chuck up shots while being doubled, or take bad threes he knew
>he couldn't hit? sounds more like kobe than mj.

bottom line is the shots Jordan took were far better than what I see Kobe take. Kobe took so many threes in the past playoffs that he would actually work against himself at times against Houston and Denver. It was like what is he doing? I didn't see Jordan at this stage of his career or at any time in his career take as many bad shots. I don't know what cats are talking about. Jordan took better shots.

  

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Lach
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Thu Jul-16-09 11:18 AM

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219. "that's a side point tho"
In response to Reply # 215


  

          

Phil calmed Jordan as well as Kobe and kinda made them both better team players. So it's kinda a non-issue in the discussion. But if we take Phil out the equation, Jordan still was a better scorer in terms of putting the ball in the basket. He was more efficient. He was shooting 50% from the field and 85% from the FT line with Doug Collins. Actually now that you bring up the "trusting your teammates" bit, that makes Jordan even more impressive as a scorer. Reason being is that he didn't always trust his teammates, yet he still was putting up HUGE amounts of points while shooting at a crazy percentage better than most big men today. That's crazy for a guy who took as many shots as he did from a guard position.

Like I said before, the real argument needs to be around physical talent. Cuz that's something that can really be debated between the two. Not "who's the better scorer". Cuz Jordan was clearly the better scorer - more efficient, more court intelligence, and ultimately more production. No one has any way to disprove that.

  

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melmag
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Mon Jul-20-09 12:30 AM

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301. "lol. physical talent??"
In response to Reply # 219


  

          

Thats not even remotely debateable imo. MJ was CLEARLY better physically: he was the better athlete, quicker, and stronger, & better instincts. there's no aspect of Kobe's physical talent that matches or surpasses MJ.

Also MJ was the best athlete in the league almost throughout his entire career. (You can make a case for Nique being just as good, but injuries kinda slowed him a bit)

Kobe on the other hand has NEVER been the best athlete. At best, he's considered a top 5 athlete, but thats as far as he goes: Several others best him continually in that category


>Like I said before, the real argument needs to be around
>physical talent. Cuz that's something that can really be
>debated between the two. Not "who's the better scorer". Cuz
>Jordan was clearly the better scorer - more efficient, more
>court intelligence, and ultimately more production. No one has
>any way to disprove that.
>
>

  

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Lach
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Mon Jul-20-09 08:50 AM

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309. "I'll let them entertain that notion from them"
In response to Reply # 301


  

          

Personally, I agree with you and don't think Kobe is even better in that way either. But if they want a debate, I'll let them debate that. "Scorer" though shouldn't even be coming out of their mouths. That's like saying Dwight Freeney is a better pass rusher than Reggie White. Kobe isn't even a top 5 scorer all time to me.

  

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LBs Finest
Member since Sep 28th 2005
19846 posts
Mon Jul-20-09 06:57 PM

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312. "lol cmon..."
In response to Reply # 309
Mon Jul-20-09 07:24 PM by LBs Finest

  

          

Kobe isn't even a top 5 scorer
>all time to me.

wilt, mj, kareem? who else? and please don't say bird, i'll laugh in your face.

_________________________

  

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melmag
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18469 posts
Mon Jul-20-09 07:44 PM

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314. "Cry all you will, but prime AI was a better scorer too"
In response to Reply # 312


  

          

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Mon Jul-20-09 07:50 PM

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316. "LOL - Prime AI was better than Kobe at what? Tattoos? "
In response to Reply # 314


  

          


I'd venture to say that there is not a single thing
that AI was better at than Kobe

Not one

Not one aspect




----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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LBs Finest
Member since Sep 28th 2005
19846 posts
Mon Jul-20-09 11:37 PM

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320. "melmag is pretty much worthless as a poster"
In response to Reply # 316


  

          

the only thing he brings to the table are the great avis.

_________________________

  

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melmag
Charter member
18469 posts
Mon Jul-20-09 11:39 PM

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321. "FOH..96-01 AI was easily a better scorer & arguably a better player"
In response to Reply # 316


  

          


Say all you want about Shaq stifling Kobe's development, but facts is facts..

while bitch ass Kobe was still teething, throwing up airballs vs. Utah, AI was already a top tier player and a league leader in scoring.

deal with it!!


  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Tue Jul-21-09 10:51 AM

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333. "four scoring titles to two and we are actually arguing this?"
In response to Reply # 321


  

          

kobes best year AI right behind him with 33 a game, too, normally plenty to get number 5.

as far just scoring goes, i will take AI between 1999 and 2003, absolutely, i do think kobe has been a better defensive player for most of their respective careers though and he has developed into a better rebounder (which, obviously, should be easy given that AI is not even six foot for real for real).

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Wed Jul-22-09 01:51 PM

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365. "AI was a mindless gunner, is a mindless gunner"
In response to Reply # 333


  

          


If you compare their primes, Kobe is/was about 3000X
better a scorer than AI during his

Not up for debate, so shush





----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Sun Jul-26-09 10:43 PM

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455. "because he shoots 3% better or because he never passes?"
In response to Reply # 365


  

          

they both dominate the ball and throw lebron in there, too, yet kobe manages to have way fewer dimes and in TWO FINALS SERIES be taken out because of his selfishness. yes, Kobe Bryant, grand altruist and team player.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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jahlove7
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10743 posts
Wed Jul-29-09 01:03 AM

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520. "wilt and kareem are givens"
In response to Reply # 312


  

          

but let's stick to the perimeter players.

i'll take mj, iceman, alex english, dr.j, nique, bird, and david thompson as better scorers over kobe.

they shot less, and scored at a higher percentage. plainly they were just better. and a cat like iceman could score in so many ways, it wasn't even close to being funny.

inaugural member - okayplayer sports hall of fame.


what i'm digging right now:

chocolate butterfly - self-titled
laura jane - welcome to my planet boo
me & this japanese guy - waiting for the miracle
wade3 - dreams
tracey amos - who are we really?

  

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LBs Finest
Member since Sep 28th 2005
19846 posts
Wed Jul-29-09 05:16 PM

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523. "LMAO, gramps please log the fuck off...for like a month."
In response to Reply # 520


  

          

_________________________

  

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jahlove7
Charter member
10743 posts
Wed Jul-29-09 07:23 PM

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526. "foh kobe-fluffer...you couldn't even answer post # 480"
In response to Reply # 523


  

          

and i'm still laughing that you can't, because i know the reason why.

youtube similac baby...youtube if helps you.

inaugural member - okayplayer sports hall of fame.


what i'm digging right now:

chocolate butterfly - self-titled
laura jane - welcome to my planet boo
me & this japanese guy - waiting for the miracle
wade3 - dreams
tracey amos - who are we really?

  

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Justin_Maldonado_7
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5042 posts
Tue Jul-21-09 02:35 PM

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346. "BEST ANSWER YET"
In response to Reply # 153


          

>then yall aint discussing nothing at all. Kobe literally
>tries to score a lot. Shooting jumpers from everywhere. Some
>good jumpers and the majority bad. Now like O_E said, Kobe
>does have that ability to make many of those crazy shots which
>is he's Kobe. Let's be real about that. I agree, Kobe can make
>any kind of shot during a game. The problem is Kobe ALWAYS
>tries to make those crazy shots even when he clearly has a guy
>guarding him that can't do anything with him.
>
>Jordan on the other hand would take whatever the D gave him
>and still get a quality shot off damn near every time. Most of
>which either amounted to a layup or his comfortable dead-on
>fadeaway. Even when he was a 137 years old. That's why you
>have so many games where Kobe goes 14-32 where as Jordan would
>go 15-25.
>
>So if you're just going to say Kobe is a better scorer because
>he can make any shot than I can't agree. He's going to miss
>those shots the majority of the time. He'll just hit shot some
>when it seems there's no way he should be able to which gives
>life to people saying he's the better scorer. Sorry, I'll take
>the guy who can get an easy shot over any D than a guy who can
>sometimes make a terrific shot with D hanging on him. Cuz if
>you're D'd up right, you'll look like a guy who shoots too
>many jumpers and doesn't get to the paint enough like last
>year's finals.
>
>Bottom line is, if I had to give the ball to one guy to take
>the last shot for the win or OT, it's going to Jordan. I have
>more confidence that he'll hit whatever necessary shot given
>the situation. And that's why he's Jordan.

  

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DJ Contact
Member since Oct 21st 2003
27857 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 08:32 PM

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159. "Jordan is gettin you 30+ night in night out....."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Kobe is almost to that point where even if he has a bad shooting night he still has 30, but he still aint better than Jordan at straight up scoring.

"You post like you look your barber in the eyes when he lines you up."

http://twitter.com/semiautomatic_C
PSN ID: killacontact_71

  

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FILF
Member since Jun 01st 2007
20180 posts
Tue Jul-14-09 08:51 PM

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160. "Kobe isn't a great 3pt shooter"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Yeah when he gets it going it's impossible to stop but so was MJ.

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

  

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mtbatol
Member since May 22nd 2002
19788 posts
Wed Jul-15-09 12:04 AM

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164. "In big games, do-or-die situations, and thru series, it's not even close"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Mike in the 90's was cut throat & retired HOFers to going a career ringless. In conference finals and NBA Finals he's guaranteed to outshine everyone.

  

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JAESCOTT777
Member since Feb 18th 2006
28487 posts
Wed Jul-15-09 07:47 AM

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166. "for the 4598 time......"
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Jul-15-09 07:48 AM by JAESCOTT777

  

          

NOBODY IS SAYING KOBE IS BETTER THAN JORDAN!!!

NIGGAS IS ONLY SAYING THAT HE IS JUST AS GOOD IF NOT BETTER AS A SHOOTER

AND EVEN IF YOU THINK MJ IS A BETTER SCORER ITS NOT LIKE MJ IS MILES AHEAD OF KOBE

ITS NOT A RIDULOUS COMPARISON AT ALL

GOODNESS


I THINK MJ IS THE GOAT AND NOE ONE WILL TAKE THAT FROM HIM

BUT SOME OF THIS SHIT THATS BEING SAID IS REALLY GETTING FUCKING RETARDED

YALL ARE WILT CHAMBALIN'NIN MJ

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Wed Jul-15-09 08:16 AM

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171. "^^^^^^GOOOODAAAAAAMNNNN^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^!!!!!!!!!!!!"
In response to Reply # 166
Wed Jul-15-09 08:16 AM by Orbit_Established

  

          


THANK YOU, SON

THANK YOU

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

See, posts like yours is why Im mean to Okayplayers.

Because I be thinking its me, and then someone else who is
smart and thinks for themselves makes an intelligent post
making everyone else look STUPID.

That's why I stay shittin on niggas and acting foul

All niggas gotta do is READ and THINK for themselves and
this wouldn't even have gotten this far


>NOBODY IS SAYING KOBE IS BETTER THAN JORDAN!!!

Not a single person in this post said anything remotely
close to that

Doesn't stop half this board from replying:

"Jordan is a waaay better player than Kobe. This is stupid"

LOL

Idiots

>NIGGAS IS ONLY SAYING THAT HE IS JUST AS GOOD IF NOT BETTER AS
>A SHOOTER

Exactly.

And people AREN'T EVEN ADMITTING THIS

They won't concede SHIT

LOL

Its fucking RIDICULOUS

>AND EVEN IF YOU THINK MJ IS A BETTER SCORER ITS NOT LIKE MJ IS
>MILES AHEAD OF KOBE


EXACTAMUNDO

Niggas act like Kobe didn't put up 35 a game, and that Jordan
would have put 45 a game in the same season

LOL

Funny, I think its *very* close

I'm willing to concede that Jordan might be better offensively,
but I'm not entirely convinced


>ITS NOT A RIDULOUS COMPARISON AT ALL
>
>GOODNESS
>
>
>I THINK MJ IS THE GOAT AND NOE ONE WILL TAKE THAT FROM HIM
>
>BUT SOME OF THIS SHIT THATS BEING SAID IS REALLY GETTING
>FUCKING RETARDED
>
>YALL ARE WILT CHAMBALIN'NIN MJ

Serious

Niggas in here saying:

JORDAN PLAYED IN AN NBA WITH A 47 FOOT THREE POINT LINE!!!!

JORDAN'S NBA HAD NO FOUL LIMITS AND DEFENSES WERE ALLOWED
8 PLAYERS ON THE COURT TO GUARD HIM!!!

JORDAN EASILY COULD HAVE BEEN A POST UP CENTER AT 6'6

JORDAN EASILY COULD HAVE BEEN THE BEST 3 POINT SHOOTER
IN THE LEAGUE!!!

LOL

LOL

LOL

You can love Jordan ALL YOU WANT

You can think he's the BEST

But there's NEVER A REASON TO LIE like niggas
are doing up in here







----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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The Money Man
Member since Feb 27th 2004
13938 posts
Wed Jul-15-09 08:18 AM

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172. "lol"
In response to Reply # 171


  

          

cmon oe

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Wed Jul-15-09 08:27 AM

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175. "My man ended this post with that. "
In response to Reply # 172
Wed Jul-15-09 09:04 AM by Orbit_Established

  

          

I don't blame you, Moneyman because you're a notorious
WIllie hater, and that's fine(hilarious, in fact)

Its these other niggas in here trying to manufacture
arguments and lying

Thats's the silly shit


----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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El_essence
Charter member
24899 posts
Wed Jul-15-09 08:33 AM

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178. "nah money, O_E and Jae are right"
In response to Reply # 172


  

          

cat's are making up shit now. MJ is the template for all swings. Yet cats are making every aspect of his game out of this world.

  

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Lach
Charter member
44326 posts
Wed Jul-15-09 11:14 AM

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203. "NO, the problem is the post title says "SCORER""
In response to Reply # 166


  

          

Which means putting the ball in the basket in terms of a basketball player. Right? Ok.

  

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CliffDogg
Member since Dec 19th 2004
18078 posts
Thu Jul-16-09 01:55 AM

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213. "Your post needs more caps."
In response to Reply # 203


  

          

----

THFC
F1
MotoGP

  

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ChuckNeal
Member since Feb 03rd 2004
5458 posts
Wed Jul-15-09 08:36 AM

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179. "*Looks around* MJ had the better mid range jumper guys.........."
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Jul-15-09 08:37 AM by ChuckNeal

          

And I'm talking from 9-18ft. Sorry.

Famousfarrah.com <--- a webseries I worked on

  

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ChuckNeal
Member since Feb 03rd 2004
5458 posts
Wed Jul-15-09 09:01 AM

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187. "I'll say this though - MJ = more efficient scorer: Kobe = More versatile"
In response to Reply # 179


          

Mike was the better finisher and better at knocking down the mid range jumper at a consistent basis. I also say that Jordan at 29+ is the better scorer with his back to the basket (Kobe is still only 30, bout to be 31 though so he is probably going to start utilizing the post more now than he has before). Mike could get to the basket or get an open jumper w/ a couple of quick shakes or a pump fake. Kobe on the other hand can cross left bring it back through his legs spin then fadeaway and knock down a three and make it look easy. Basically, Kobe has more moves off the dribble and his handle is better overall (although I think Mike is slightly stronger with his right hand Kobe is much better at using his left. Shit; Kobe can knock down jumpers with his left hand better than some lefties). Kobe is the better three point shooter - his percentage was lower than Mike's because Mike was the smarter shooter rarely taking contested or fadeaway twirling threes the way Kobe does.

However; you win by being prolific AND eficient. This is why Mike won so often. Not because he could put up a lot of points but because he could do so by making half or more than half of his shots. He took good shots more often than Kobe and went to his strengths more often than Kobe. Better pure scorer? I'd say the skill sets are close to even but Mike was the BETTER and more dangerous scorer.

Famousfarrah.com <--- a webseries I worked on

  

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El_essence
Charter member
24899 posts
Wed Jul-15-09 10:00 AM

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195. "Kobe's midrange consistency making it isn't in question"
In response to Reply # 187


  

          

it's his decision to take it over shooting further out or taking a tougher shot. MJ is a do what works shooter. Kobe for the most part is the do what will show my heavy artillery lol.

  

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ChuckNeal
Member since Feb 03rd 2004
5458 posts
Wed Jul-15-09 10:28 AM

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200. "You're right. And this is what pisses me off about Kobe"
In response to Reply # 195


          

>it's his decision to take it over shooting further out or
>taking a tougher shot. MJ is a do what works shooter. Kobe for
>the most part is the do what will show my heavy artillery
>lol.

He gets caught up in trying to prove shit a lot of times instead of just doing what is needed to win. Much less now than earlier in his career, but still.

And I didn't mean to say that MJ's mid range is consistent so Kobe's is inconsistent. Just that I'd bet on Mike making more jumpers from 10,12,13 ft than Kobe. I'm willing to say it'd be close and that I may lose that bet, but I'd still put my money on Mike.

Famousfarrah.com <--- a webseries I worked on

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Sat Jul-18-09 05:35 PM

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273. "exactly, two things stand out to me"
In response to Reply # 195


  

          

shot selection and willingness to drive. jordan used his ability to drive and back down to open up his mid range game better, too. kobe is getting there, watching him the past two years i see that same inability for a defender to really commit to the drive or the shot because kobe can unleash either one from nearly any position but i dont see him using that advantage nearly as effectively. he settles for more jumpers, he takes more tough shots and he simply is not as efficient nor as effective as a result.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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El_essence
Charter member
24899 posts
Sun Jul-19-09 08:30 PM

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295. "RE: exactly, two things stand out to me"
In response to Reply # 273


  

          

>shot selection and willingness to drive. jordan used his
>ability to drive and back down to open up his mid range game
>better, too. kobe is getting there, watching him the past two
>years i see that same inability for a defender to really
>commit to the drive or the shot because kobe can unleash
>either one from nearly any position but i dont see him using
>that advantage nearly as effectively. he settles for more
>jumpers, he takes more tough shots and he simply is not as
>efficient nor as effective as a result.

I'm talking about the ability to take and make the shot. We don't disagree with the above. I'm purely saying his midrange jumpshot - as in the act of taking and making - at LEAST parallel's MJ. whether it's the pull up in transition, the multiple pivots, or the curl around the screen in traffic jumper. All that shit, Kobe does as good as anyone to ever lace em up.

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Tue Jul-21-09 10:46 AM

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331. "sure but i dont see him squaring up as well"
In response to Reply # 295


  

          

game of horse, kobe better shot, real fuckin life, jordan all day anywhere inside the arc.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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El_essence
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Wed Jul-15-09 09:55 AM

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193. "Probably the only time you and I disagree when it comes to kobe and mj"
In response to Reply # 179


  

          

MJ relied on it more than Kobe does. But Kobe's actual midrange shot from there is at the very least at MJs level

  

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ChuckNeal
Member since Feb 03rd 2004
5458 posts
Wed Jul-15-09 10:14 AM

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199. "Maybe it is just shot selection but if that's all I see then.."
In response to Reply # 193


          

And I'm not saying that Mike is lights out better from mid range, just that I'd put money on him making more from that range than Kobe. But Kobe is a killer from the mid range as well.

Famousfarrah.com <--- a webseries I worked on

  

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theeraser
Member since Feb 11th 2007
7218 posts
Wed Jul-15-09 09:15 AM

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189. "Jordan has achieved more but Kobe's the better player. nm"
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Jul-15-09 09:15 AM by theeraser

          

t

  

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The Money Man
Member since Feb 27th 2004
13938 posts
Wed Jul-15-09 09:28 AM

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190. "oh cmon"
In response to Reply # 189


  

          

nm

  

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rl9
Charter member
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Wed Jul-15-09 09:29 AM

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191. "and this is why threads like this deserve the hate"
In response to Reply # 189


  

          

magic was the better passer. bird the better shooter.
nique could dunk harder. clyde sky higher.
so fukkin what?

the reason posts like this make MJ fans/worshippers mad is that the bball antichrist kobe is supposed to be the next jordan = new GOAT.
he fails to deliver on the whole so let's pick one characterisic of his game and make it better then MJs. so to a bunch of kobestans that means he was the better scorer and by that logic prolly the better player...

when u compare both palyers when they were 20 mj ETHERS kobe and kobe really needs to up the ante if he wants to be better than mj in his 30s.
so far kobe didn't elevate MJs game at all, he came close at best.
it's lebron that has the potential to turn it up and surpass what has been labelled the GOAT.
deal with it.

''i went from bashful to asshole to international''- CdoubleO

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Wed Jul-15-09 09:58 AM

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194. "LMAO @ double standard"
In response to Reply # 191


  

          


Its wrong for ONE GUY to say Kobe is better than
Jordan, but its okay for all the Kobe-haters in this
post to LIE and MAKE SHIT UP all over the post?

WRONG IS WRONG

This guy is wrong for saying Kobe is better

90% of y'all are wrong for saying all the other
bullshit

----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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rl9
Charter member
4494 posts
Wed Jul-15-09 10:29 AM

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201. "LMAO @ your undercover kobe love"
In response to Reply # 194


  

          

sorry i forgot u are the voice of reason in this post.

stay mad and type another 50+ erratic posts or calm down.

''i went from bashful to asshole to international''- CdoubleO

  

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JAESCOTT777
Member since Feb 18th 2006
28487 posts
Wed Jul-15-09 01:12 PM

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205. "Lebron will NEVER surpass MJ "
In response to Reply # 191
Wed Jul-15-09 01:13 PM by JAESCOTT777

  

          

He will be LUCKY if he even sniffs the finals ONCE in the next 5 years any damn way

Honestly I dont see anyone being able to surpass MJ no time soon

Kobe is the closest we will get to MJ at the end of the day

but while

Everyone on bron
Bron isnt even the clear #1 right NOW

Yall NEED to be more worried about that boy #3 down in Mia
far as the best in the L

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
85076 posts
Thu Jul-16-09 11:28 AM

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221. "i like Wade, and he>Bron, but he really not in the picture right now."
In response to Reply # 205


  

          


>Yall NEED to be more worried about that boy #3 down in Mia
>
>far as the best in the L
>

cause his team is booty. he aint winning anything anytime soon

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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JAESCOTT777
Member since Feb 18th 2006
28487 posts
Mon Jul-20-09 09:13 AM

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310. "you do understand Wade was 2nd in MVP votes last year"
In response to Reply # 221


  

          

  

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LBs Finest
Member since Sep 28th 2005
19846 posts
Wed Jul-15-09 06:06 PM

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207. "well"
In response to Reply # 191


  

          

>magic was the better passer. bird the better shooter.
>nique could dunk harder. clyde sky higher.
>so fukkin what?
>
>the reason posts like this make MJ fans/worshippers mad is
>that the bball antichrist kobe is supposed to be the next
>jordan = new GOAT.

what post are you referring to? this thread or the post you replied to? if its the latter that cat's probably the only nigga here who feels that kobe >> mike overall. if you're talking about this thread then you must be confused, because being perceived as a better scorer ≠ better player, gasol's a more skilled scorer than dwight howard, doesn't make him a better player.

>he fails to deliver on the whole so let's pick one
>characterisic of his game and make it better then MJs.

what do you mean "make" it better?

so to a
>bunch of kobestans that means he was the better scorer

melo is a better shooter than wade, doesn't mean he's a better scorer. shit there are spot up shooters on every roster in the league that are better shooters than kobe, does that make them better scorers? i'd say that between kobe and mike, the better scorer is a much more legitimate debate to have than who the better player is.

and by
>that logic prolly the better player...

no one said this outside of one guy.

>it's lebron that has the potential to turn it up and surpass
>what has been labelled the GOAT.
>deal with it.

lol well let's wait till he wins ONE ring first before claiming he has potential to be anything.

_________________________

  

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Beamer6178
Member since Jan 09th 2006
6379 posts
Wed Jul-15-09 01:45 PM

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206. "Lach really shut this shit down-RE READ HIS SHIT"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Obviously despite the intellectual masturbatory orgies going on, it's a close call. Enough has been said that I don't need to rehash everything, if anyone wants to go line for line let me know and I'll break out more detailed analysis. Mind you I'm a fan of both, MJ all time, Kobe currently, so no secret sabotage here.

But the point that i'm shaking my head at is

"kobe's a superior long range shooter"

"kobe's a FAR FAR FAR better 3 pt shooter"

GTFOHWTB. since it was established that shit was already close, to put anyone far far far far above the other is asinine. the reality is, kobe spends more time on long range shooting than MJ did. has he shown a more prolific shot making ability? as a result of focusing on it, YES. but it's not like MJ tried to be a three point gunner and fell short. as his career progressed, he integrated it into his repertoire but never would sit pat and let his jumper determine his fate. But there was never an aspect of basketball that MJ didn't put supreme focus and energy into that he didn't excel at, so i'll say it again MISS ME with that "kobe is a superior long range shooter"

THAT'S the thing which makes "better" scorer to me. Jordan would have some of THE shittiest shooting days ever and still put up 20+ in a victory. How? Drove drove drove to the lane, drew fouls, did whatever it took to SCORE points. when his shot was on, forget about it, but as is with all shooters in the NBA, you're gonna miss. Biggest difference is that Jordan adjusted, and Kobe still doesn't, not nearly as much as he should have.

too many cats who've made good arguments in pieces have discredited themselves by throwing in some fanboyism about BOTH of these cats in order to discredit the one they're downgrading.

  

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jahlove7
Charter member
10743 posts
Wed Jul-15-09 11:35 PM

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210. "why don't we all just admit that jordan was just better, period"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

better defender, better rebounder, better passer, better shooter and better scorer.

you wanna know the difference between kobe and mj offensively? it's simple.

jordan was more of a pure shooter that could score. kobe, on the other hand, was a scorer who was a streak shooter. kobe's best shooting % years are some of jordan's worst. mj shot over 50% while averaging over 30 a game too many times to count.

and for those that believe kobe is better from behind the arc, take note that jordan didn't shoot a lot of threes. he didn't have to. his midrange game was unstoppable, so why shoot from long distance?

the bottom line, mj's ceiling was just higher than kobe's. this debate really shouldn't even be up for discussion.

inaugural member - okayplayer sports hall of fame.


what i'm digging right now:

chocolate butterfly - self-titled
laura jane - welcome to my planet boo
me & this japanese guy - waiting for the miracle
wade3 - dreams
tracey amos - who are we really?

  

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Garhart Poppwell
Member since Nov 28th 2008
18115 posts
Thu Jul-16-09 06:41 AM

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214. "FUCK KOBE"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

  

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Magnum Opus
Member since Sep 03rd 2003
256 posts
Thu Jul-16-09 08:38 AM

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217. "LMFAO @ the bullshit zone defense era defense"
In response to Reply # 0
Thu Jul-16-09 08:55 AM by Magnum Opus

          

you maaaad plea coppy

there is not one team in the nba that employs the zone as it's base defense. this isn't college. if it were truly that effective in the nba teams would be pressing, trapping, then retreating into the 2-3, 3-2, 1-3-1 and the amoeba every play. it doesn't happen. the nba would outlaw it.

there's a reason that hand checking was outlawed. anyone who has actually played ball knows that you can basically control the direction a player can go with your damn hand. there's a reason scores were in the 80's and 90's unless you were ironically the suns, nuggets, lakers and golden state. defense was tougher.

this should be named the flagrant foul era. players used to hit the deck all the time in the 80's and early 90's with nary a technical foul call.

you can do better.

























don't let the madness stop you from making a legitimate argument.




































why you mad?

  

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heathen
Member since Mar 06th 2008
70 posts
Fri Jul-17-09 01:51 PM

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225. "mike was better at er'thang nigga."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

mike was a better playa nigga.

mike got better acolades nigga.

mike had better teams nigga.

mike handled the media better nigga.

mike got the better shoes nigga.

mike cheated with better hoes nigga.

mike hairline receded better nigga.

mike had better injuries nigga.

mike got a better dvd collection nigga.

mike ate better sandwiches nigga.

mike got the flu better nigga.

  

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Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
15789 posts
Fri Jul-17-09 01:54 PM

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226. "Kobe takes tough unnecessary shots and makes them"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Jordan offensively looked effortless why

BECAUSE HE PLAYED SMARTER THAN KOBE.

Jordan was faster

Smart player.

He wouldn't take as many tough shots as kobe.

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
15789 posts
Fri Jul-17-09 01:57 PM

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227. "And Kobe seems better from the outside because he takes"
In response to Reply # 226


  

          

more 3 pointers/ long range shots.

That doesn't make him better

Jordan was fading away from 20 feet thats not easy.

He didn't take as many long shots why because he was a better offensive player.

Higher percentage shots are called that for a reason.

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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LBs Finest
Member since Sep 28th 2005
19846 posts
Fri Jul-17-09 07:38 PM

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230. "no einstein, he seems better from deep because he is"
In response to Reply # 227


  

          

>more 3 pointers/ long range shots.
>
>That doesn't make him better

he's taken almost twice as many 3 pointers than jordan and his % is still higher despite many of his threes being more difficult and farther behind the line.

_________________________

  

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DaHumanA8stract
Charter member
880 posts
Fri Jul-17-09 08:23 PM

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235. "Steve Kerr also has a higher 3pt % than jordan"
In response to Reply # 230


          

so he must be a better scorer than him too right?

"iamrecogninzingthatthevoi
ceinsidemyheadisurgingm
etobemyselfandneverfollow
someoneelse..." - Q-Tip

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Fri Jul-17-09 08:36 PM

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236. "LOL - no, but Kerr is a better 3pt shooter, Einstein. "
In response to Reply # 235
Fri Jul-17-09 08:36 PM by Orbit_Established

  

          


As is Kobe.

And in Kobe's case, its both quantitative and qualitative
data that tells us that.




----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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DaHumanA8stract
Charter member
880 posts
Fri Jul-17-09 08:50 PM

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238. "and that makes him a better scorer?"
In response to Reply # 236


          

that must mean the top 25 three point percentage leaders of all time are better scorers than jordan....i always knew Tim Legler was better than jordan

thanks for clearing that up.

"iamrecogninzingthatthevoi
ceinsidemyheadisurgingm
etobemyselfandneverfollow
someoneelse..." - Q-Tip

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Fri Jul-17-09 08:52 PM

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239. "Are you seriously retarded? "
In response to Reply # 238


  

          


As in, honestly?

Do you have all of your chromosomes?

>that must mean the top 25 three point percentage leaders of
>all time are better scorers than jordan....i always knew Tim
>Legler was better than jordan

Yes, Tim Legler is a better scorer than Jordan.






























































Jesus Christ.


----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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DaHumanA8stract
Charter member
880 posts
Fri Jul-17-09 08:57 PM

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240. "please enlighten us all"
In response to Reply # 239


          

how does three point shooting make kobe a better scorer than jordan? simple question. can you give a simple answer?

"iamrecogninzingthatthevoi
ceinsidemyheadisurgingm
etobemyselfandneverfollow
someoneelse..." - Q-Tip

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Fri Jul-17-09 09:12 PM

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243. "Okay. "
In response to Reply # 240


  

          


Evaluating the totality of a scoring palette involves
evaluating how good each scorer is across a range of
scoring abilities - i.e. who can score effectively in
the most ways.

This includes:

- Scoring in the paint(including post game)

- Scoring around the rim(including explosiveness)

- Scoring off the dribble

- Mid-range jumpshooting(14ft-18ft)

- Long range shooting(19ft-24ft+)

Insofar as long range shooting is one of the categories
used to evaluate a pure scorer, it is useful to discuss
it when comparing scorers.

In the Kobe vs Jordan comparison, we use the five
categories above(maybe more, maybe less, maybe described
differently). What many will argue is that Kobe Bryant
is a better long range shooter. How much that plays a
role in determining if he's a better scorer than Jordan
is contingent upon how you/we feel about the other
categories.




----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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DaHumanA8stract
Charter member
880 posts
Fri Jul-17-09 09:19 PM

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246. "i'm sorry.....like you said...i'm retarded...."
In response to Reply # 243


          

is that bullshit speak for "i don't fuckin know?". please dumb it down for us retards.

"iamrecogninzingthatthevoi
ceinsidemyheadisurgingm
etobemyselfandneverfollow
someoneelse..." - Q-Tip

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Fri Jul-17-09 09:25 PM

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247. "No, I can't dumb it down. "
In response to Reply # 246


  

          


You're just going to have to be confused.

Sorry.

----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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LBs Finest
Member since Sep 28th 2005
19846 posts
Fri Jul-17-09 11:11 PM

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252. "OE just stop...some of these cats in here are just low iq dumbass niggas"
In response to Reply # 239


  

          

never once did me or you or anyone else in here for that matter state that if you're a better 3pt shooter than mj you are therefore a better scorer. lol for someone to even insinuate that's what we're saying is nothing short of idiotic.

these niggaz just read what they want to read

_________________________

  

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DaHumanA8stract
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Sat Jul-18-09 09:22 AM

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258. "yet ya'll so quick to proclaim him a better 3pt shooter..."
In response to Reply # 252


          

as the crutch to hold ya'll arguement up

>>never once did me or you or anyone else in here for that matter state that if you're a better 3pt shooter than mj you are therefore a better scorer. lol for someone to even insinuate that's what we're saying is nothing short of idiotic.

"iamrecogninzingthatthevoi
ceinsidemyheadisurgingm
etobemyselfandneverfollow
someoneelse..." - Q-Tip

  

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HiKwelity
Member since Sep 24th 2002
4119 posts
Fri Jul-17-09 07:38 PM

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229. "Why did I expect a concentrated effort from all parties involved..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

..to put in the work finding comprehensive stats and comparing them, looking for similarities and differences and reaching educated conclusions?

a_b at least tried, but I literally do not know what I was thinking or why I expected that.

  

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LBs Finest
Member since Sep 28th 2005
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Fri Jul-17-09 07:47 PM

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232. "stats are too misleading, they're for people who dont watch games."
In response to Reply # 229


  

          

_________________________

  

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HiKwelity
Member since Sep 24th 2002
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Fri Jul-17-09 07:53 PM

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233. "Bullshit"
In response to Reply # 232
Fri Jul-17-09 07:55 PM by HiKwelity

  

          

Stats are misleading when people use them to mislead, or when people assume that correlation equals causation.

If stats are thorough and viewed within context, they are infinitely better than comparing one present day player and one that no one has seen play at his peak in 10+ years strictly by memory and subjective criteria.

There's no confirming or debunking going on here. He might as well have said, "Hey, let's debate the same fucking topic and use the same arguments again in a completely new post."

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Fri Jul-17-09 08:13 PM

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234. "i.e. Stats are misleading. "
In response to Reply # 233


  

          


LOL @ you trying to act like this shit is a simple
piece of cake.


>If stats are thorough and viewed within context,

That's why their misleading. It is their context specifically
that is the most subjective.

>they are
>infinitely better than comparing one present day player and
>one that no one has seen play at his peak in 10+ years
>strictly by memory and subjective criteria.

Well, that's why we use both qualitative and quantitative
data


>There's no confirming or debunking going on here. He might as
>well have said, "Hey, let's debate the same fucking topic and
>use the same arguments again in a completely new post."

Okay. Debates like this are difficult and tricky. That's
the way it is.

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
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Fri Jul-17-09 08:40 PM

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237. "in other words, no stat supports the idea that kobe's a better scorer"
In response to Reply # 234


  

          


-----------
mas que un club

08-09 Survivor Champion.

"I mean, I can pigeonhole people because I'm close-minded. But I'm special and different." (c) Walleye

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Fri Jul-17-09 08:58 PM

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241. "LOL. LOL. LOL. LOL. "
In response to Reply # 237


  

          


And no stat supports the idea that Jordan is anywhere
in the same class of player that Wilt Chamberlain was.

Yet the majority of lists you'll ever find has Jordan listed as
the greatest player of all time.

Hell, no stats support the idea that Jordan was anywhere
close to as good as Wilt, nor nearly as good as Kareem.

Hell, stats barely support that Jordan was a better player
than Oscar Robertson.

As a matter of fact, Lebron's stats now compare favorably
with Jordan's. Stats say that Lebron James is a better
passer than Michael Jordan. Jordan had one season averaging
more than 7 assists. Lebron already has 3.

What's the problem with concluding that Lebron James is
a better passer than Michael Jordan?

Well, the fact that he is not a better passer than Michael
Jordan was.

How do we know that?

From watching the goddamn games.




Damn, I'm nice.








----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
26425 posts
Fri Jul-17-09 09:03 PM

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242. "damn, you sound mad"
In response to Reply # 241


  

          

and stats can support those ideas re: wilt and oscar...it's called league adjusted statistics.

>As a matter of fact, Lebron's stats now compare favorably
>with Jordan's. Stats say that Lebron James is a better
>passer than Michael Jordan. Jordan had one season averaging
>more than 7 assists. Lebron already has 3.

that's actually the one decent example you gave. the correct answer is: the offensive systems are different. The more correct answer is: assists and even assist/turnover ratios aren't good measures of passing quality.

but really, you typed a LOT in response to one line. why for?

-----------
mas que un club

08-09 Survivor Champion.

"I mean, I can pigeonhole people because I'm close-minded. But I'm special and different." (c) Walleye

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Fri Jul-17-09 09:15 PM

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244. "Apology accepted. "
In response to Reply # 242


  

          

>and stats can support those ideas re: wilt and oscar...it's
>called league adjusted statistics.
>
>>As a matter of fact, Lebron's stats now compare favorably
>>with Jordan's. Stats say that Lebron James is a better
>>passer than Michael Jordan. Jordan had one season averaging
>>more than 7 assists. Lebron already has 3.


>that's actually the one decent example you gave. the correct
>answer is: the offensive systems are different. The more
>correct answer is: assists and even assist/turnover ratios
>aren't good measures of passing quality.

LOL - because statistics are misleading.

Just like I said.

>but really, you typed a LOT in response to one line. why for?

I'm a genius. What's hard for you is easy for me.


----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
26425 posts
Fri Jul-17-09 09:33 PM

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248. "here's what you've missed so far:"
In response to Reply # 244


  

          

while there aren't good passing stats, there are good scoring stats. so tell me for the first time ever, why shooting percentage and ppg aren't good stats for deciding who is a good scorer (adjusted for 3 pointers and for overall league scoring).

-----------
mas que un club

08-09 Survivor Champion.

"I mean, I can pigeonhole people because I'm close-minded. But I'm special and different." (c) Walleye

  

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DaHumanA8stract
Charter member
880 posts
Fri Jul-17-09 09:36 PM

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249. "i smell long winded scientific answer coming"
In response to Reply # 248


          

"iamrecogninzingthatthevoi
ceinsidemyheadisurgingm
etobemyselfandneverfollow
someoneelse..." - Q-Tip

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Fri Jul-17-09 09:49 PM

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250. "LOL - you just provided two answers. "
In response to Reply # 248
Fri Jul-17-09 09:50 PM by Orbit_Established

  

          

>while there aren't good passing stats, there are good scoring
>stats. so tell me for the first time ever, why shooting
>percentage and ppg aren't good stats for deciding who is a
>good scorer (adjusted for 3 pointers and for overall league
>scoring).

- You have to control for 3 point shooting
- Overall league scoring
- Offensive system
- Rule changes

AND

-Diversity in offensive palette -- excellence in a wide
number of scoring methods.

For example, this is why Dwyane Wade is not a better
pure scorer than Kobe Bryant, even in 2009, despite the
fact that he scored more and had a higher FG%.





























































Damn, I'm good.



----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
26425 posts
Fri Jul-17-09 09:58 PM

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251. "i swear to god, you don't read well sometimes"
In response to Reply # 250


  

          

>- You have to control for 3 point shooting
>- Overall league scoring
>- Offensive system
>- Rule changes

all of those are easily adjusted by a halfway decent statistician and have been. and in every case, MJ>>>>> Kobe. so yeah....true shooting percentage, efficient shooting percentage, and offensive win share all say MJ >>>> Kobe.

>AND
>
>-Diversity in offensive palette -- excellence in a wide
>number of scoring methods.

so this is the interesting thing. why does diversity matter? If you and I know I'm going left, but you can't stop it...does it matter that it isn't diverse? 2 points are, indeed, 2 points. Now, you can say kobe's game is "prettier" or "more awe-inspiring" (at which point, i'd argue you're missing the beauty of the simplicity of Jordan's game).

It's not like you could gameplan Jordan. so he was more than diverse enough with his scoring. Unlike, say Dwight Howard, where there is a way to stop him because he is limited offensively even though he averages a lot. There wasn't a way to beat Jordan. In fact, I'd argue that we saw in '08 that there might be ways to stop K.obe...but maybe not. that's unimportant to the larger point:

why does diversity of scoring matter?

>For example, this is why Dwyane Wade is not a better
>pure scorer than Kobe Bryant, even in 2009, despite the
>fact that he scored more and had a higher FG%.

no. this is where we disagree. kobe is a better scorer than wade because kobe's method of scoring has not led to significant injury. Wade's does. But if Wade didn't get injured when he did it, he'd be better.

-----------
mas que un club

08-09 Survivor Champion.

"I mean, I can pigeonhole people because I'm close-minded. But I'm special and different." (c) Walleye

  

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LBs Finest
Member since Sep 28th 2005
19846 posts
Fri Jul-17-09 11:52 PM

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253. "lol wtf?"
In response to Reply # 251
Sat Jul-18-09 12:01 AM by LBs Finest

  

          

>no. this is where we disagree. kobe is a better scorer than
>wade because kobe's method of scoring has not led to
>significant injury. Wade's does. But if Wade didn't get
>injured when he did it, he'd be better.

wow...okay just stop, please. you have said some questionable shit all up and down this post but at this point you're losing almost all your credibility, though you didnt really have much to begin with, you're john hollinger who only watches the C's play. but you sound absolutely foolish right now. just admit you hate kobe's guts and can't be objective and move on.

_________________________

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
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Sat Jul-18-09 08:21 AM

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256. "FOH"
In response to Reply # 253


  

          

come in throwing insults in post 253.

and i end up watching the sixers more than the celtics because i'm in philly.

this is CLASSIC...okayplayers just sit there in wait, never address the main point (why does diversity in ways of scoring matter if we're comparing two all-time great scorers?)* and wait for someone to take something that can be called ridiculous and thus dismiss the whole argument.

in fact, now that i actually bothered to look for 5 seconds at the stats, they don't even say what O_E (remember, he's the one who brought wade in) even claims they say. Wade's stats (again, after adjustment) aren't better than Kobe's...they're basically identical, except Kobe's are skewed by including his early years. Wade's *might* be skewed by injury. so yeah, he isn't better. BUT THAT'S NOT THE POINT AND YOU KNOW IT.

*see what i did there?

-----------
mas que un club

08-09 Survivor Champion.

"I mean, I can pigeonhole people because I'm close-minded. But I'm special and different." (c) Walleye

  

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DaHumanA8stract
Charter member
880 posts
Sat Jul-18-09 09:26 AM

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259. "^^^ truth"
In response to Reply # 256


          

"iamrecogninzingthatthevoi
ceinsidemyheadisurgingm
etobemyselfandneverfollow
someoneelse..." - Q-Tip

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Sat Jul-18-09 09:57 AM

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261. "LOL...LB we got these niggas just making shit up...LOL LOL LOL"
In response to Reply # 253


  

          


>wow...okay just stop, please. you have said some questionable
>shit all up and down this post but at this point you're losing
>almost all your credibility, though you didnt really have much
>to begin with, you're john hollinger who only watches the C's
>play. but you sound absolutely foolish right now. just admit
>you hate kobe's guts and can't be objective and move on.

Basically this nigga's method of determining "pure
scorer" automatically disqualifies anyone who scores
by creating contact and getting to the line UNLESS they
are Lebron James....LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL...its all just
conocted so that hey can say Lebron is a better scorer
than Kobe, while not having to do deal with Wade...LOL
....LOL...stupid ass

But yet we're supposed to be wrong for saying that a great
"pure scorer" should be determined by diversity in their
offensive repertoire....LOL LOL LOL

But their definition, Wilt is a better "pure scorer,"
by far, than any player in history(even correcting
for era)

We got niggas in here shooting themselves in the foot, fam


Shit is pure comedy


Niggas won't even admit that Kobe is a better long range
bomber, which he clearly is....clearly




----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
26425 posts
Sat Jul-18-09 10:43 AM

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263. "damn, your reading comp got worse"
In response to Reply # 261


  

          

>Basically this nigga's method of determining "pure
>scorer" automatically disqualifies anyone who scores
>by creating contact and getting to the line UNLESS they
>are Lebron James....LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL...its all just
>conocted so that hey can say Lebron is a better scorer
>than Kobe, while not having to do deal with Wade...LOL
>....LOL...stupid ass

i've from the jump made fun of the idea of a "pure scorer". look at my first post in here, O_E.

i love that my use of objective stats is "conocted" but your subjective concept of "purity" isn't. ok...o_e...ok...lol

>But yet we're supposed to be wrong for saying that a great
>"pure scorer" should be determined by diversity in their
>offensive repertoire....LOL LOL LOL

i don't give a fuck about purity. I care about "better".

>But their definition, Wilt is a better "pure scorer,"
>by far, than any player in history(even correcting
>for era)

again, strawman L for you here.

>Niggas won't even admit that Kobe is a better long range
>bomber, which he clearly is....clearly

i've said he is. so many straw men in so little time.





















































damn i'm good.



-----------
mas que un club

08-09 Survivor Champion.

"I mean, I can pigeonhole people because I'm close-minded. But I'm special and different." (c) Walleye

  

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LBs Finest
Member since Sep 28th 2005
19846 posts
Sun Jul-19-09 10:55 AM

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281. "i'd like to think you're a smart guy"
In response to Reply # 263


  

          

but you seem to be pretty stubborn and even worse, oblivious to the common knowledge and understanding of the game and how the value of statistics in this sport therein lies. you haven't been able to come to terms with this, which is why your posts have been so off base.


lol and wow, post 13 is a disaster too. not only did you insist that kobe's too old to add new moves to his offense when it's clear he has everything, but you insinuated his post game was lacking when he happens to be one of the elite post players in basketball. this is embarrassing, even for a hater. lol you literally must watch two laker games a year.

>this is CLASSIC...okayplayers just sit there in wait, never
>address the main point (why does diversity in ways of scoring
>matter if we're comparing two all-time great scorers?)*

of course it matters, you don't disregard it. it's not the end-all be-all but you have to factor it in. it damn sure aint a negative.

and
>wait for someone to take something that can be called
>ridiculous and thus dismiss the whole argument.

it was pretty silly.

>
>in fact, now that i actually bothered to look for 5 seconds at
>the stats, they don't even say what O_E (remember, he's the
>one who brought wade in) even claims they say. Wade's stats
>(again, after adjustment) aren't better than Kobe's...they're
>basically identical, except Kobe's are skewed by including his
>early years. Wade's *might* be skewed by injury. so yeah, he
>isn't better. BUT THAT'S NOT THE POINT AND YOU KNOW IT.
>
>*see what i did there?

all this adjustment talk is still speculation. you really don't know how many points wilt would average in this era or how many dimes oscar would get today. these are GUESSES. it's the same as arguing hypotheticals, a waste of time.

here, do me a favor... "adjust" the numbers so that they account for the ppg kobe would have averaged if he HADN'T played with one of the most dominant players in history and actually had the green light to chuck from day 1 until he retires like MJ did.

your physical gifts aren't the only thing that dictate your level of production. there's also circumstance and opportunity. you can't adjust the stats to factor that in.

_________________________

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Sun Jul-19-09 12:38 PM

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287. "^^^F-A-T-A-L-I-T-Y"
In response to Reply # 281


  

          

>but you seem to be pretty stubborn and even worse, oblivious
>to the common knowledge and understanding of the game and how
>the value of statistics in this sport therein lies. you
>haven't been able to come to terms with this, which is why
>your posts have been so off base.
>
>
>lol and wow, post 13 is a disaster too. not only did you
>insist that kobe's too old to add new moves to his offense
>when it's clear he has everything, but you insinuated his post
>game was lacking when he happens to be one of the elite post
>players in basketball. this is embarrassing, even for a hater.
>lol you literally must watch two laker games a year.
>
>>this is CLASSIC...okayplayers just sit there in wait, never
>>address the main point (why does diversity in ways of
>scoring
>>matter if we're comparing two all-time great scorers?)*
>
>of course it matters, you don't disregard it. it's not the
>end-all be-all but you have to factor it in. it damn sure aint
>a negative.
>
>and
>>wait for someone to take something that can be called
>>ridiculous and thus dismiss the whole argument.
>
>it was pretty silly.
>
>>
>>in fact, now that i actually bothered to look for 5 seconds
>at
>>the stats, they don't even say what O_E (remember, he's the
>>one who brought wade in) even claims they say. Wade's stats
>>(again, after adjustment) aren't better than
>Kobe's...they're
>>basically identical, except Kobe's are skewed by including
>his
>>early years. Wade's *might* be skewed by injury. so yeah, he
>>isn't better. BUT THAT'S NOT THE POINT AND YOU KNOW IT.
>>
>>*see what i did there?
>
>all this adjustment talk is still speculation. you really
>don't know how many points wilt would average in this era or
>how many dimes oscar would get today. these are GUESSES. it's
>the same as arguing hypotheticals, a waste of time.
>
>here, do me a favor... "adjust" the numbers so that they
>account for the ppg kobe would have averaged if he HADN'T
>played with one of the most dominant players in history and
>actually had the green light to chuck from day 1 until he
>retires like MJ did.
>
>your physical gifts aren't the only thing that dictate your
>level of production. there's also circumstance and
>opportunity. you can't adjust the stats to factor that in.


DAMN!!!! That last point about adjusting his numbers for
playing with Shaq is one I hadn't thought of and is absolutely
molten lava

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
26425 posts
Mon Jul-20-09 07:18 AM

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306. "i like to think you aren't a stan...but..."
In response to Reply # 281


  

          

>lol and wow, post 13 is a disaster too. not only did you
>insist that kobe's too old to add new moves to his offense
>when it's clear he has everything, but you insinuated his post
>game was lacking when he happens to be one of the elite post
>players in basketball. this is embarrassing, even for a hater.
>lol you literally must watch two laker games a year.

if 13 were a disaster (my first post was the one about purity), then this argument is worse. Name a single player who went from jump shooting ---> going to the lane after they hit 30. I'll wait. Players drift outside with age...cmon.

>of course it matters, you don't disregard it. it's not the
>end-all be-all but you have to factor it in. it damn sure aint
>a negative.

again...how in the course of a basketball game does it actually matter that bean has 50 moves and jordan only 45?

>all this adjustment talk is still speculation. you really
>don't know how many points wilt would average in this era or
>how many dimes oscar would get today. these are GUESSES. it's
>the same as arguing hypotheticals, a waste of time.

stats aren't just guesses. they're educated guesses. big difference. and if i have to explain that, i'm not going to bother.

>here, do me a favor... "adjust" the numbers so that they
>account for the ppg kobe would have averaged if he HADN'T
>played with one of the most dominant players in history and
>actually had the green light to chuck from day 1 until he
>retires like MJ did.

umm...even if you only compare post-shaq kobe to jordan, jordan still wins the stats argument.

>your physical gifts aren't the only thing that dictate your
>level of production. there's also circumstance and
>opportunity. you can't adjust the stats to factor that in.

name something that there isn't a stat for. amount of offensive plays drawn for you? it's called usage.

-----------
mas que un club

08-09 Survivor Champion.

"I mean, I can pigeonhole people because I'm close-minded. But I'm special and different." (c) Walleye

  

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Beamer6178
Member since Jan 09th 2006
6379 posts
Tue Jul-21-09 10:53 AM

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334. "you were doing OK until you went here"
In response to Reply # 281


  

          

>here, do me a favor... "adjust" the numbers so that they
>account for the ppg kobe would have averaged if he HADN'T
>played with one of the most dominant players in history and
>actually had the green light to chuck from day 1 until he
>retires like MJ did.
1st mistake - nevermind you're dabbling in the most speculative of possibilities ever, since we just don't know and can't know how it would have been if kobe was chucking from day one,

2nd mistake- you're TOTALLY overlooking the fact that playing with shaq early in his career on an already very good PLAYOFF lakers team where he didn't have the pressure of delivering is MUCH easier for a guy coming straight out of high school then it is for a cat to be on a sorry ass lottery team that he carries on his back from day one.

if you're going to speculate on something that can never be proven, it is inherently faulty logic to only speculate in a way that is most favorable to your viewpoint. so really just keep this out, bottom line is that he DIDN'T. let's deal with what happened, not "what would have could have should have" happened. what if jordan didn't break his foot in 85? what if what if what if? it's not a road we need to go down here.


>your physical gifts aren't the only thing that dictate your
>level of production. there's also circumstance and
>opportunity. you can't adjust the stats to factor that in.
funny that you make reference to that here but overlook the fact that it was advantageous for kobe to start his career as a second option in that he didn't command as much attention or face as many double teams from the beginning as he did later in his career.

  

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LBs Finest
Member since Sep 28th 2005
19846 posts
Tue Jul-21-09 04:53 PM

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350. "i know it's speculation."
In response to Reply # 334


  

          

>>here, do me a favor... "adjust" the numbers so that they
>>account for the ppg kobe would have averaged if he HADN'T
>>played with one of the most dominant players in history and
>>actually had the green light to chuck from day 1 until he
>>retires like MJ did.
>1st mistake - nevermind you're dabbling in the most
>speculative of possibilities ever, since we just don't know
>and can't know how it would have been if kobe was chucking
>from day one,

i actually dont believe in arguing hypotheticals, i always go off facts and things i can prove to some degree. i only brought that point up because jerseytornado was rambling about some bs adjusted stats. all i said was you can't adjust the numbers to account for different circumstances. their situations were not the same at all their first 8 years. one had the green light from day 1, the other didn't. kobe didn't even start until his 3rd year. mike's highest scoring averages came his first 8 years in the league. there are all facts, not speculation. kobe's career scoring average as of right now is about 25 a game. that's playing alongside a dominant player who took a ton of shots away from him for more than half his career.

>
>2nd mistake- you're TOTALLY overlooking the fact that playing
>with shaq early in his career on an already very good PLAYOFF
>lakers team where he didn't have the pressure of delivering is
>MUCH easier for a guy coming straight out of high school then
>it is for a cat to be on a sorry ass lottery team that he
>carries on his back from day one.

it's much easier to win a championship, but not to lead the league in scoring...not to a player like kobe. yes shaq made it easier for him but i highly doubt he doesn't score more if shaq is never there.

AI/wade/lebron were all handed the keys to franchise very early, i think all 3 of them have higher scoring averages. they're all great at putting the ball in the hole certainly, but do you think they're better scorers? or did they benefit from being the main man from jump?

_________________________

  

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Beamer6178
Member since Jan 09th 2006
6379 posts
Thu Jul-23-09 03:42 PM

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370. "RE: i know it's speculation."
In response to Reply # 350


  

          

>i actually dont believe in arguing hypotheticals, i always go
>off facts and things i can prove to some degree. i only
>brought that point up because jerseytornado was rambling about
>some bs adjusted stats. all i said was you can't adjust the
>numbers to account for different circumstances. their
>situations were not the same at all their first 8 years. one
>had the green light from day 1, the other didn't.
yes, but one also faced double teams and was the sole strategic point of team's game plans night in and night out from the beginning, the other was not.



>mike's highest scoring averages
>came his first 8 years in the league. there are all facts, not
>speculation. kobe's career scoring average as of right now is
>about 25 a game. that's playing alongside a dominant player
>who took a ton of shots away from him for more than half his
>career.
as its been said several times though, kobe got more shots than shaq the last 4 years of their time together. i get that he'd still have MORE without shaq, but also, with someone who demands as much attention as shaq, kobe should have a much higher FG percentage since he was in position to get off much better shots on a regular basis.


>>
>>2nd mistake- you're TOTALLY overlooking the fact that
>playing
>>with shaq early in his career on an already very good
>PLAYOFF
>>lakers team where he didn't have the pressure of delivering
>is
>>MUCH easier for a guy coming straight out of high school
>then
>>it is for a cat to be on a sorry ass lottery team that he
>>carries on his back from day one.
>
>it's much easier to win a championship, but not to lead the
>league in scoring...not to a player like kobe. yes shaq made
>it easier for him but i highly doubt he doesn't score more if
>shaq is never there.
sure he scores more, but if his team was totally ass, he wasn't going to put up 35 season in and season out, he'd get brutalized. at some point, playing with another good player was going to bring his point total down. i mean personally, the whole ppg is dumb when comparing the two and something that i think most don't even like to get into, but this thread has gotten damn petty so cats are splitting hairs over erything and anything.


>AI/wade/lebron were all handed the keys to franchise very
>early, i think all 3 of them have higher scoring averages.
>they're all great at putting the ball in the hole certainly,
>but do you think they're better scorers? or did they benefit
>from being the main man from jump?
wade's average is 2 tenths higher than kobes, AI and lebron two points. AI and wade definitely not better scorers, lebron close but not yet, although i think he can and will be. even tho all three were the man from jump, i don't know if kobe is 3-5 ppg higher than all of them had he been that guy from the beginning.

  

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LBs Finest
Member since Sep 28th 2005
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Fri Jul-24-09 03:56 AM

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376. "RE: i know it's speculation."
In response to Reply # 370
Fri Jul-24-09 04:13 AM by LBs Finest

  

          

>>i actually dont believe in arguing hypotheticals, i always
>go
>>off facts and things i can prove to some degree. i only
>>brought that point up because jerseytornado was rambling
>about
>>some bs adjusted stats. all i said was you can't adjust the
>>numbers to account for different circumstances. their
>>situations were not the same at all their first 8 years. one
>>had the green light from day 1, the other didn't.
>yes, but one also faced double teams and was the sole
>strategic point of team's game plans night in and night out
>from the beginning, the other was not.

true but unless you think that prevents him from scoring more points then it's pretty much irrelevant.

>as its been said several times though, kobe got more shots
>than shaq the last 4 years of their time together. i get that
>he'd still have MORE without shaq, but also, with someone who
>demands as much attention as shaq, kobe should have a much
>higher FG percentage since he was in position to get off much
>better shots on a regular basis.

much better shots is reaching, its not like the defense considered kobe just one of shaq's bum teammates, he was our main perimeter weapon, he had to be accounted for too, and he was the last guy the defense was going to help off of to send another guy at shaq. kobe is kobe, he's going to take the same shots whether he's got one guy on him or two or three.

lol but yall are really gonna trip off a couple % points? lol. kobe has never really cared about his fg%. if he did he'd never have games where you watch and think he's confused the court with his own personal gym. he'd cut down on his 3's and "hmm, lemme take this bs spinning fadeaway to my left from 22 ft over two guys just because im kobe!" type shots.

>>it's much easier to win a championship, but not to lead the
>>league in scoring...not to a player like kobe. yes shaq made
>>it easier for him but i highly doubt he doesn't score more
>if
>>shaq is never there.
>sure he scores more, but if his team was totally ass, he
>wasn't going to put up 35 season in and season out, he'd get
>brutalized.

if he's the focal point of the team getting 38+ min a game from day 1 i think he could've averaged 30+ points at least 4 or 5 times out of the first 8 years.

at some point, playing with another good player
>was going to bring his point total down. i mean personally,
>the whole ppg is dumb when comparing the two and something
>that i think most don't even like to get into, but this thread
>has gotten damn petty so cats are splitting hairs over
>erything and anything.

well yea, that's my point. mike was more efficient than kobe and definitely picked his spots better. there's part of the case you make for him. not some bs like ppg. ppg will always be directly tied to that player's situation.

>wade's average is 2 tenths higher than kobes, AI and lebron
>two points. AI and wade definitely not better scorers, lebron
>close but not yet, although i think he can and will be. even
>tho all three were the man from jump, i don't know if kobe is
>3-5 ppg higher than all of them had he been that guy from the
>beginning.
>
>

*shrugs* i personally think his average would be 29.6 or some shit like that.

_________________________

  

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Beamer6178
Member since Jan 09th 2006
6379 posts
Fri Jul-24-09 09:26 AM

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381. "RE: i know it's speculation."
In response to Reply # 376


  

          

>one
>>>had the green light from day 1, the other didn't.
>>yes, but one also faced double teams and was the sole
>>strategic point of team's game plans night in and night out
>>from the beginning, the other was not.
>
>true but unless you think that prevents him from scoring more
>points then it's pretty much irrelevant.
my point was that you can tip the scales either way you want to make your point but the counterpoint can't be ignored, or should i say the more complete picture. even for great players, one on one is easier than one on two. it's how their careers started specifically why i can't seriously compare these guys in a close/neck and neck fashion until kobe's career is completed.

>>as its been said several times though, kobe got more shots
>>than shaq the last 4 years of their time together. i get
>that
>>he'd still have MORE without shaq, but also, with someone
>who
>>demands as much attention as shaq, kobe should have a much
>>higher FG percentage since he was in position to get off
>much
>>better shots on a regular basis.
>
>much better shots is reaching, its not like the defense
>considered kobe just one of shaq's bum teammates, he was our
>main perimeter weapon, he had to be accounted for too,
but was he double teamed when shaquille was double teamed? i highly doubt that two members of the lakers were unguarded at all times, you know what i'm getting at here. like i said above, one on one is easier than one on two.

>and he
>was the last guy the defense was going to help off of to send
>another guy at shaq.
the last guy but he wasn't being double teamed. NOBODY is calling him a bum, but we all know shaq commanded the double teams almost all the time, its not a slight against kobe to admit that fact.

>kobe is kobe, he's going to take the same
>shots whether he's got one guy on him or two or three.
and that really speaks to the original issue on the post doesn't it LOL

>lol but yall are really gonna trip off a couple % points? lol.
yes, if we're talking better scorers, that's either more points scored in the same shots, or more efficient scoring from less shots. either way, neither you or anyone else will convince me that one's FG percentage being 49% as opposed to 46% for a season is inconsequential or not a good thing for the player and the team.

and to underscore the greater point, if he had a better FG percentage, he would likely have SCORED MORE POINTS.

>kobe has never really cared about his fg%.
again, part of the main argument against him in this thread lol

if he did he'd
>never have games where you watch and think he's confused the
>court with his own personal gym. he'd cut down on his 3's and
>"hmm, lemme take this bs spinning fadeaway to my left from 22
>ft over two guys just because im kobe!" type shots.
yeah, and perhaps more people would think him as good or even better a scorer than jordan. let's get it clear, there was NO SHOT that jordan could not make. there is NO SHOT that kobe could not make. however, does that mean, with all you have to do on the court, run within an offense, play defense, set the tone for your team, you need to make one aspect unnecessarily that much harder? the objective is to score, you don't get extra points for the degree of difficulty, only an extra one for distance.



>>>it's much easier to win a championship, but not to lead the
>>>league in scoring...not to a player like kobe. yes shaq
>made
>>>it easier for him but i highly doubt he doesn't score more
>>if
>>>shaq is never there.
>>sure he scores more, but if his team was totally ass, he
>>wasn't going to put up 35 season in and season out, he'd get
>>brutalized.
>
>if he's the focal point of the team getting 38+ min a game
>from day 1 i think he could've averaged 30+ points at least 4
>or 5 times out of the first 8 years.
i don't see a 17 year old wingman built like him when he started getting 38 min a game being necessarily that productive. i see more airballs being put up like they were in utah when he runs out of gas. does he got apeshit earlier? of course. would he be capable of getting the 30? no doubt. but jordan was infinitely smarter in that he kept close to the basket and went further away as his career went on. only if kobe were to do that aspect with more frequency than to fire away early and often in his career do i see him averaging that 30+ more than just a few times.

  

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HiKwelity
Member since Sep 24th 2002
4119 posts
Sat Jul-18-09 10:08 AM

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262. "No, it's not simple and that's why no one takes the time"
In response to Reply # 234


  

          

>LOL @ you trying to act like this shit is a simple
>piece of cake.

It's exactly completely the opposite. It's takes time and a concerted effort, which is why people prefer qualitative arguments because it takes 0 seconds to formulate one.

And you misunderstand context. Context doesn't mean "I see it this way and you see it that way." Context means Phoenix led the league in PPG but no one would argue that they are a better offensive team than the Lakers, which is why you control for offensive possessions to get an accurate measure of a team's scoring ability. PPG is a misleading stat, points per possession is not. Context. Things can be very accurately, but not perfectly, analyzed statistically if you consider it.

  

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vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
20388 posts
Sat Jul-18-09 01:45 PM

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265. "LOL...I find that funny coming from a guy who didn't watch Jordan play"
In response to Reply # 232
Sat Jul-18-09 01:47 PM by vee-lover

  

          

until what...his last 3 championships. Before then, you couldn't really watch with understanding. Be honest.

I already told you fam. Debating with you about Jordan is like debating with a dude that didn't start watching Michael Jackson until the History album...but then trying to tell me that Usher is a better dancer. lol

But you right, to a degree...stats, alone, never complete the picture and that's why I can say unequivocally that MJ was a better, more fluid, more efficient, more effective, scorer than Kobe. I've seen both play from day 1.

And to be honest, Kobe didn't really start to perfect his scoring or different ways to score, until around the 2002-2003 season. Up until then, he was still seen as someone out of control at times and at times still took too many shots. No one was even thinking of putting him and MJ in the same category as scorers before then.

But here's the difference with MJ. He was an offensive force from day 1...and he took a lot of shots...but guess what...he was making most of his. His game got more refined as he got older but he was w/o a doubt more explosive from 1984-93...Jordan just made it look easier than Kobe and he, unlike Kobe, was the MAIN FOCUS OF EVERY TEAM DEFENSIVE SCHEME FROM DAY ONE AND HE STILL COULDN'T BE STOPPED.

If Kobe didn't play with Shaq early on, his fg% would actually probably have been lower than it is...because he would've been getting all the double teams instead of Shaq.

grassrootsphilosopher

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Sat Jul-18-09 03:21 PM

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267. "Stop posting and go buy some Costra Rican weed or pussy. "
In response to Reply # 265


  

          


You don't know where the NBA 3 point line is,
doggie.

Shush.


----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
20388 posts
Sat Jul-18-09 03:44 PM

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268. "I do that after work but until then........"
In response to Reply # 267
Sat Jul-18-09 03:46 PM by vee-lover

  

          

>You don't know where the NBA 3 point line is,
>doggie.
>
>Shush.

LOLOLOLOLOL...I know you'll never admit it but you went and looked that info up on wikipedia. You didn't know that off the top of your head.

I still win the war because MJ was a BETTER SCORER THAN KOBE...no ifs ands or buts about it.

grassrootsphilosopher

  

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Beamer6178
Member since Jan 09th 2006
6379 posts
Tue Jul-21-09 10:29 AM

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329. "RE: stats are too misleading, they're for people who dont watch games."
In response to Reply # 232


  

          

>
from the cat who's seen jordan's career via highlight reel LOL

  

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40thStreetBlack
Charter member
27116 posts
Tue Jul-28-09 11:05 AM

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496. "you mean like the games before mike's 1st comeback you didn't watch?"
In response to Reply # 232


          

lol

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

  

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all stah
Member since Sep 03rd 2005
23470 posts
Sat Jul-18-09 01:13 AM

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255. "Im sorry OE, but you need to stick to boxing"
In response to Reply # 0


          

seriously

0-0


oh yeah, my man hodges summed it up:

Q: If you could take one player in their prime, would you take Michael Jordan or Kobe?

A: M.J., all day. There's no comparison. M.J. could score 100 points in this era. You can't hand-check now. Imagine that trying to guard M.J. It would be crazy.


Also , at the age of 40 MJ was dropping 22/5/5.....Kobe will not be doing that at 40 .

MJ's jumper killed GT for the chip
MJ's jumper killed Cleveland over and over again in the 'offs
MJ's jumper killed Utah for the chip.

Automatic outside, Automatic inside, Defense, BLOCKS, and turned pippen into 2nd goat.....Lamar has regressed since playing with Kobe.

I have seen Kobe and Lebron give up too many times in a game. Shit kobe gave up last year against the Cs ...

Mike never gave up in a game...shit never gave up in practice or a pick up game....


I dont understand why you guys try to put kobe on mike's level...in anything ....Its just not happening...plus mike missed like 6 years of play due to the gambling punishment and the bulls dismantling the team ...do you know what his stats would be like?????????

please ,to all the kobe and laker fans...please stop, really, just stop. ...

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Sat Jul-18-09 09:49 AM

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260. "LOL. You didn't read a single post that I wrote, doggie. "
In response to Reply # 255


  

          


n/m

----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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all stah
Member since Sep 03rd 2005
23470 posts
Sat Jul-18-09 03:57 PM

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269. "RE: LOL. You didn't read a single post that I wrote, doggie. "
In response to Reply # 260


          

Im sorry guy, but you are at a lost here. ...Its not even negotiable.

Basketball is not a strong topic for you and its showing....


When BOBBY KNIGHT says that you are going to be the greatest player to ever play the game even before you step foot on a NBA court, you know you are untouchable...

But laker fans and people like you continue to say illogicall shit even when the numbers and games are staring youn guys in the face

Note: You know kobe is using the same trainer and people that mike used to get him prepared for games ,right? ...and so is wade ...Kobe copied everything and I mean everything : The walk, the post up fade away now, the people and trainers...

The copy is never better than the origianl, any printer will tell you that.

Mike missed out on 5 years of NBA play ....think about that for a minute ...let that resonate.

  

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40thStreetBlack
Charter member
27116 posts
Sat Jul-18-09 05:31 PM

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272. "so to summarize: "
In response to Reply # 0
Sat Jul-18-09 05:31 PM by 40thStreetBlack

          

- willie better from long range/3
- mid-range games are comparable
- cheesy-e better overall scorer

270+ posts boiled down to 3 sentences.

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

  

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LBs Finest
Member since Sep 28th 2005
19846 posts
Sun Jul-19-09 02:16 AM

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275. "1 and 2 are on, 3 is debateable"
In response to Reply # 272


  

          

>- willie better from long range/3
>- mid-range games are comparable
>- cheesy-e better overall scorer

obviously i think kobe's the better scorer but i wouldn't be against the sentiment that they're equal scorers, kobe's got the range and the bigger arsenal, MJ was smarter and more efficient, so technically it balances out.

_________________________

  

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40thStreetBlack
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Sun Jul-19-09 12:33 PM

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286. "it's really not."
In response to Reply # 275


          

you didn't see 80's MJ, he was a fucking monster scoring the ball. he was a better scorer than Kobe and anybody with any sense who watched him in his scoring prime knows this.

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Sun Jul-19-09 02:27 AM

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276. "Fam - these niggas won't admit #1 or #2"
In response to Reply # 272
Sun Jul-19-09 02:38 AM by Orbit_Established

  

          

That is what makes this post pure hilarity.

Like I said -- people have managed to magically
INFLATE the greatest player to ever play the game.

I didn't think it was possible.

Jordan is the G.O.A.T.

But to say there's no comparison between he
and Kobe's mid range games is downright asinine.

And again - these niggas won't admit that Kobe is
even better long range, which isn't really debatable.


----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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LegacyNS
Member since Jan 16th 2004
38095 posts
Sun Jul-19-09 11:09 AM

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282. "if we were to agree on those 3 points.."
In response to Reply # 272


  

          

Jordan would be the better scorer in my eyes because of his shot selection. Dude took his share of difficult shots but again it's amazing how often that guy got good looks.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- NOPE!!! CAN'T WIN A RING WITHOUT D. FISH!!

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
26425 posts
Mon Jul-20-09 08:00 AM

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308. "that works"
In response to Reply # 272


  

          


-----------
mas que un club

08-09 Survivor Champion.

"I mean, I can pigeonhole people because I'm close-minded. But I'm special and different." (c) Walleye

  

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LBs Finest
Member since Sep 28th 2005
19846 posts
Sun Jul-19-09 02:29 AM

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278. "damn vee-lover took multiple L's in this bitch lmao"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

_________________________

  

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vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
20388 posts
Sun Jul-19-09 11:50 AM

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284. "bwahahahahaha...."
In response to Reply # 278
Sun Jul-19-09 11:53 AM by vee-lover

  

          

hey, like I said, if me admitting that I was wrong that MJ NEVER shot 50% in a series/game is a HUGE "L" then so be it but the fact that you were able to cite *only* three playoff series in which Jordan shot below 5o% is still a testament to how great and efficient a scorer Jordan was.


You want to get sidetracked by that one point alone but the fact of the matter is Kobe HAS NEVER shot 50% for a season or a playoff series but somehow he's a "better scorer than Jordan?

Jordan was the scoring leader year in and year out for what....7 straight seasons. And as impressive as that is, the most impressive aspect of that accomplishment is he manage to do it while shooting 50% or close to it or above 50% for the greater part of his career.

On the one hand, you and others have tried to make the argument that if Kobe didn't play alongside Shaq he might have multiple scoring titles but that cuts both ways...because while he might lead the league in scoring, he would probably shoot less from the field than he did while playing with Shaq. At that point Kobe would get all the double teams.

Lets just look at Jordan & Kobe's best scoring seasons.

MJ....37.1PPG 482% (the very next season Jordan also averaged 35.0ppg and HE SHOT .535% FG)

Kobe....35.4ppg 450%


I mean I don't know what kind of criteria is sufficient for you Kobestans but this is a clear example of Jordan as not only being a better scorer than Kobe but he is the easily the *best* perimeter scorer of all time.



*sidenote*...Craig Hodges said he'd take Jordan over Kobe and the reason he said was if Jordan were playing in this era of NO HAND CHECKING there's no telling how he much he would average.


grassrootsphilosopher

  

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all stah
Member since Sep 03rd 2005
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Sun Jul-19-09 01:25 PM

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291. "RE: bwahahahahaha...."
In response to Reply # 284


          

end of post right here.


say no more fam....just let this post make an ass of itself.


Hodges one of the greatest shooters, WHO EVEN WORKS FOR THE LAKERS....said it wouldnt even be close.



He sees kobe games and see the inadequacies in comparison to Mike.


  

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melmag
Charter member
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Sun Jul-26-09 03:14 PM

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447. "ETHER!!"
In response to Reply # 284


  

          

funny how fanboy LB couldn't refute, and chose to sidestep all this knowledge. good shit fam.

the basketball gods are smiling down on you for all the wisdom

>hey, like I said, if me admitting that I was wrong that MJ
>NEVER shot 50% in a series/game is a HUGE "L" then so be it
>but the fact that you were able to cite *only* three playoff
>series in which Jordan shot below 5o% is still a testament to
>how great and efficient a scorer Jordan was.
>
>
>You want to get sidetracked by that one point alone but the
>fact of the matter is Kobe HAS NEVER shot 50% for a season or
>a playoff series but somehow he's a "better scorer than
>Jordan?
>
>Jordan was the scoring leader year in and year out for
>what....7 straight seasons. And as impressive as that is, the
>most impressive aspect of that accomplishment is he manage to
>do it while shooting 50% or close to it or above 50% for the
>greater part of his career.
>
>On the one hand, you and others have tried to make the
>argument that if Kobe didn't play alongside Shaq he might have
>multiple scoring titles but that cuts both ways...because
>while he might lead the league in scoring, he would probably
>shoot less from the field than he did while playing with Shaq.
>At that point Kobe would get all the double teams.
>
>Lets just look at Jordan & Kobe's best scoring seasons.
>
>MJ....37.1PPG 482% (the very next season Jordan also averaged
>35.0ppg and HE SHOT .535% FG)
>
>Kobe....35.4ppg 450%
>
>
>I mean I don't know what kind of criteria is sufficient for
>you Kobestans but this is a clear example of Jordan as not
>only being a better scorer than Kobe but he is the easily the
>*best* perimeter scorer of all time.
>
>
>
>*sidenote*...Craig Hodges said he'd take Jordan over Kobe and
>the reason he said was if Jordan were playing in this era of
>NO HAND CHECKING there's no telling how he much he would
>average.
>
>
>

  

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LBs Finest
Member since Sep 28th 2005
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Sun Jul-19-09 07:28 AM

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280. "to the people saying MJ's the better scorer and it's not even close"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

im over here trying to convince myself that this isn't just backlash from comparing a loathed player to a revered legend. but it's proving hard to do, especially with statements like that.

it's not close at all? really? given all that kobe's done i feel it takes an immense amount of hate to say some shit like that.

he's behind only wilt and mike in 40 pt games, behind the same two in 50 pt games, and tied with mike in 60 point games. he's tied MJ with 9 consecutive 40 point games, behind only wilt with 4 straight 50 point games. and most impressive, he's accomplished all this despite playing alongside a dominant player, in his prime, who needed his hands on the ball damn near every possession, for 8 years. that helps you win championships, but not scoring titles. he outscored the conference champs a couple years ago through 3/4 of the game. that's never been done before. 80 points from a wing player is also unprecedented. i mean what else does he have to do? are you guys really arguing that his sometime questionable shot selection warrants this perceived HUGE gap between the two?

_________________________

  

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DaHumanA8stract
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Sun Jul-19-09 11:31 AM

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283. "to answer your question....yes."
In response to Reply # 280


          

>are
>you guys really arguing that his sometime questionable shot
>selection warrants this perceived HUGE gap between the two?

he got the nickname "Money" for a reason. Kobe is the Black Mamba...when his shot drops.

"iamrecogninzingthatthevoi
ceinsidemyheadisurgingm
etobemyselfandneverfollow
someoneelse..." - Q-Tip

  

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rl9
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Sun Jul-19-09 12:09 PM

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285. "nice"
In response to Reply # 280


  

          

>im over here trying to convince myself that this isn't just
>backlash from comparing a loathed player to a revered legend.
>but it's proving hard to do, especially with statements like
>that.

either u lying or u ..nevermind. lol

>
>it's not close at all? really? given all that kobe's done i
>feel it takes an immense amount of hate to say some shit like
>that.

craig hodges must loathe the guy.
no wait, he actually watched them both play up close and knows some ish about basketball.
not that his word is the end to all...but it stands out well against some bball idiots' analysis in this thread...

>
>he's behind only wilt and mike in 40 pt games, behind the same
>two in 50 pt games, and tied with mike in 60 point games. he's
>tied MJ with 9 consecutive 40 point games, behind only wilt
>with 4 straight 50 point games. and most impressive, he's
>accomplished all this despite playing alongside a dominant
>player, in his prime, who needed his hands on the ball damn
>near every possession, for 8 years. that helps you win
>championships, but not scoring titles.


LMAO oh really? u managed to reinterpretate nba history that happened in the last 7 years that bad? nice.

kobe is one of the greatest scorers ever.
if u want to put him above mj stats won't help u.
you have to watch their games and find strenghts and weaknesses.
200+ posts have shown how some of ya'll are able to do that lol.
there are enough posts in here that share some good points that support the argument that puts kobe behind mj, no need to repeat that.
instead you up this post with this BS.

agreed, it may be closer than some mj fans want to admit.
BUT them not admitting that ain't half as wild as putting kobe above mj.

''i went from bashful to asshole to international''- CdoubleO

  

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CanUooooFeeLiT
Member since May 11th 2005
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Sun Jul-19-09 01:11 PM

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288. "RE: to the people saying MJ's the better scorer and it's not even close"
In response to Reply # 280


  

          

why waste your time with these fools. They're still mad about June 14th 2009.

  

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CanUooooFeeLiT
Member since May 11th 2005
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Fri Sep-17-10 09:37 PM

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549. "RE: to the people saying MJ's the better scorer and it's not even close"
In response to Reply # 288


  

          

and June 17th, 2010

  

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vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
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Sun Jul-19-09 01:23 PM

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289. "Its NOT as close as some of you try and make it out to be"
In response to Reply # 280
Sun Jul-19-09 01:36 PM by vee-lover

  

          

>im over here trying to convince myself that this isn't just
>backlash from comparing a loathed player to a revered legend.
>but it's proving hard to do, especially with statements like
>that.

Revered and loathed my ass. LOL...as much as Jordan was loved he was just as much respected and it was because he came out of nowhere like a comet that landed on the basketball landscape. No one had ever seen this type of athletic genuis before. Someone who was supremely athletically gifted than the most of the players in the NBA but had the fundamentals of the game to match. Jordan was brilliant night in and night out from season to season. Kobe was hated, I think, for trying to jack the game, style, and mannerisms of Jordan but he too is respected. He's just NOT liked and loved by most the was MJ was. It was obvious from the beginning that he copied Jordan's every move. And that for some was a surefire way to turn a lot of people off. (be original if you want to be loved like MJ)
>
>it's not close at all? really? given all that kobe's done i
>feel it takes an immense amount of hate to say some shit like
>that.

You know what: It's close in the same way people would compare Sugar Ray Robinson to Sugar Ray Leonard. Both are arguably the two greatest welterweights of all time but the distance between #1& #2 is a lot farther than it is from the #2 welterweight of all time and the #3. Because Ray Leonard had some similarities to Ray Robinson still wouldn't make anyone say he's better than Ray Robinson. But the comparison is valid just for the sake of comparison.
>
>he's behind only wilt and mike in 40 pt games, behind the same
>two in 50 pt games, and tied with mike in 60 point games. he's
>tied MJ with 9 consecutive 40 point games, behind only wilt
>with 4 straight 50 point games. and most impressive, he's
>accomplished all this despite playing alongside a dominant
>player, in his prime, who needed his hands on the ball damn
>near every possession, for 8 years. that helps you win
>championships, but not scoring titles. he outscored the
>conference champs a couple years ago through 3/4 of the game.
>that's never been done before. 80 points from a wing player is
>also unprecedented. i mean what else does he have to do? are
>you guys really arguing that his sometime questionable shot
>selection warrants this perceived HUGE gap between the two?

But you see you're missing the genuis of MICHAEL JORDAN. You just highlighted some of Kobe's biggest scoring moments to make the case that the comparison to MJ as a scorer is valid. But what you fail to understand is that you can't just single out MJ's biggest scoring games to gage how great a scorer he was. The best way is to see what he and Kobe did on a night to night or season to season basis. I'm have no doubt in my mind that had Jordan decided to go out on any given night and set some scoring record he could have easily done it. But everything was about the bigger picture with him. Even the game he scored his highest point total (69) it was in a close game on the road mind you against their then division rival Cleveland Cavs..unlike Kobe who scored his highest pt total to the worst team in the league who, at a point, seemed like they were watching with the fans instead of playing defense.

I think it's much much much more difficult to score and be efficient on a nightly basis than it is to have a/some big scoring games. Jordan scored more per game than Kobe and did it with much higher efficiency. That is the best way in my estimation to measure who is the best scorer between the two.

How is it that you all continue to dismiss those facts?

grassrootsphilosopher

  

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mistermaxxx08
Charter member
posts
Sun Jul-19-09 05:07 PM

292. "Kobe had a better range of shots including the 3 pointer"
In response to Reply # 0


          

but having said that he ain't seeing MJ just on the Mental standpoint. I mean Jordan wouldn't have parted with Shaq, wouldn't have parted with Phil Jackson, wouldn't have tolerated half hearted play out of Lamar Odoms and He would have fought to keep the main team in tact.

i dig Kobe's game, but he will go to sleep on you. i never recall Jordan falling asleep and tolerating certain things. Kobe is Badd and something else, but he ain't seeing MJ.

i was never big on jordan like that,but you gotta tell the truth and Jordan would run Kobe out of the building with that soft free zone way of defense today. it would get ugly quickly. i see why Charles Barkley shuts down the comparrisons asap when it comes up.

  

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vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
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Sun Jul-19-09 05:32 PM

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293. "And for the last time, "variety of shots" doesn't mean much when"
In response to Reply # 292


  

          

Kobe misses more than MJ did and he averaged less points per game.

The more appropriate post should be: WHO IS MORE DIFFICULT TO STOP WHEN THEY GET HOT, JORDAN OR KOBE?

But on a night to night basis, I'm going with the guy who averaged the most points and did so while making most of his versus the guy who could go off on a given night but on average he was going to take a lot of shots and probably shoot a low percentage in the process.

grassrootsphilosopher

  

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LBs Finest
Member since Sep 28th 2005
19846 posts
Sat Jul-25-09 06:41 PM

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427. "lol i definitely say this coming..."
In response to Reply # 292


  

          

>I mean Jordan wouldn't have parted with Shaq,

_________________________

  

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Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
49463 posts
Sun Jul-19-09 07:30 PM

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294. "i can't wait until kobe gets this 7th title"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

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LBs Finest
Member since Sep 28th 2005
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303. "when he does im tracking melmag down & breakin that nigga jaw"
In response to Reply # 294


  

          

_________________________

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
21925 posts
Sun Jul-19-09 08:31 PM

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296. "interesting (imo) point re: mj vs kb in 3 point shooting"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

(not sure whether this has been mentioned or not - there's no fucking way on earth i'm sifting thru all this horse dung)

just noticed this while over on basketball reference:

mike had 4 seasons in his 15 year career where he attempted over 200 3s

his percentages in those 4 seasons:

.374
.427
.376
.352

kobe thus far has 9 such seasons (200+ 3pt fga) in 13 years

his numbers:

.347
.361
.344
.339
.351
.383
.341
.327
.305

also, jordan's career high for 3pt fga in a season is 297 (111 for 297 - 37.4% in 1996-97)

kobe's shot that many or more in 6 different seasons - and surpassed 37.4% only once (38.3% in 2002-03)

assess those figures however you like. to me they say that mike, while maybe not a BETTER 3 pt shooter than bean, was certainly a SMARTER one. and that to me typifies the difference between the two.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
49463 posts
Sun Jul-19-09 09:05 PM

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297. "once you determine kobe is BETTER, the analysis should end"
In response to Reply # 296


  

          


in summary: he's a better 3 point shooter than MJ

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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Sun Jul-19-09 10:04 PM

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298. "it should? says who? go pop-lock in traffic, nigga"
In response to Reply # 297


  

          

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Mon Jul-20-09 07:33 AM

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307. "Dula, you serving yourself an uncharacteristic L up in here, god. "
In response to Reply # 298


  

          


This is what I mean about niggas being silly

Kobe is a better 3 point shooter

Y'all inability to admit that in clear terms is indicative
of how retarded this debate is, and is the reason why
we can't have this conversation in real terms

Y'all niggas can't admit the VERY BASICS






----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
21925 posts
Mon Jul-20-09 06:21 PM

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311. "*asshole smirk*"
In response to Reply # 307


  

          

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Sun Jul-19-09 11:21 PM

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299. "LMAO @ y'all niggas INVENTING shit for MU to be better at. "
In response to Reply # 296


  

          


"Smarter 3 point shooter?"

Niggas, in 2002-2003, Shawn Marion was a "smarter"
3 point shooter than Peja Stojakovic(both attempted
well over 200, btw).

Is Shawn Marion a better 3 point shooter than Peja
Stojakovic?

No, nigga.

No.

No.

No.


And I don't care how you dice it, Michael Jordan was
not a better 3 point shooter, at any point his career,
than Kobe Bryant is now.

Its not up for debate, and no matter how much y'all kick
and scream and invent shit, it ain't gonna be true.





----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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Mon Jul-20-09 12:46 AM

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302. "this whole post = y'all niggas INVENTING shit for bean to be better at!"
In response to Reply # 299


  

          

i mean, are you shitting me right now, dogg?!?

"he a PURER scorer"

"his career 3p% slightly a little better"

"his eyeballs less wino-like"

"his hairline closer to his eyebrows"

who gives a shit, nigga?

mike better. end of story.

>Its not up for debate, and no matter how much y'all kick
>and scream and invent shit, it ain't gonna be true.

now cry + punch air like tre styles.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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LBs Finest
Member since Sep 28th 2005
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Mon Jul-20-09 05:11 AM

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304. "dog what you just did was petty"
In response to Reply # 302


  

          

looks to me like you aren't really comfortable with the sentiment that kobe's better from deep, so you tried to bring some shit to the table that could somehow help you swing the pendulum of 3pt shooting back mike's way.

those numbers aren't surprising to anyone, everyone knew mike limited his 3pt shots and kobe takes a lot..sometimes too many.

just as you can argue jordan was smarter for taking less threes, you could argue it makes perfect sense for a better 3 point shooter to shoot more threes lol.

mike is the better overall player, who is arguing this? put down your sword and shield, we're not trying to invade mike's castle of legacy here.


i mean that won't happen until at least a couple years from now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iHkqgKMBDc

_________________________

  

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Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
49463 posts
Mon Jul-20-09 05:30 AM

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305. "speak for yourself...kobe gets a 7th titles, i'm shittin on mike legacy"
In response to Reply # 304


  

          

or duncan...don't matter who get 7.

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

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LBs Finest
Member since Sep 28th 2005
19846 posts
Mon Jul-20-09 07:40 PM

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313. "Phil Jackson confirms kobe is more skilled, better shooter than MJ"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_WNTx3gG_s

lmao

_________________________

  

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DaHumanA8stract
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Mon Jul-20-09 07:49 PM

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315. "he also confirmed MJ better, more efficient scorer"
In response to Reply # 313


          

"iamrecogninzingthatthevoi
ceinsidemyheadisurgingm
etobemyselfandneverfollow
someoneelse..." - Q-Tip

  

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LBs Finest
Member since Sep 28th 2005
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Mon Jul-20-09 07:56 PM

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317. "jordan's the more efficient and better overall player? NO WAY!"
In response to Reply # 315


  

          

_________________________

  

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40thStreetBlack
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Mon Jul-20-09 11:18 PM

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318. "LMAO @ you still taking Zen Master blowing smoke up Kobe ass serious"
In response to Reply # 313


          

Kobe may have a wider array of skills, but MJ's skill level was higher.

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

  

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LBs Finest
Member since Sep 28th 2005
19846 posts
Mon Jul-20-09 11:25 PM

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319. "oooh you mad! lmao"
In response to Reply # 318
Mon Jul-20-09 11:26 PM by LBs Finest

  

          

you're right, i'll take your word over the man who's coached them both for 20 years.



.....LOL.

_________________________

  

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40thStreetBlack
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Tue Jul-21-09 12:37 AM

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322. "Tex Winter confirms Kobe not a better shooter than MJ, overrated on D"
In response to Reply # 319


          

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-22-143/Tex-Winter-Compares-Kobe-Bryant-and-Michael-Jordan.html?username=truehoop&post=true&archiveId=22&bId=0&entryId=143&sort=oldest

"Both have a good shooting touch. Some people say Kobe is a better shooter, but Michael really developed as a shooter as he went along. I don't know if Kobe is a better shooter than Michael was at his best."

""I'd like to see him play better defense," Winter said... Bryant has adopted a save-energy plan on the defensive end, Winter said. "He's basically playing a lot of one-man zone. He's doing a lot of switching, zoning up, trying to come up with the interception.

"The way Kobe plays defensively affects the team," Winter added. "Anybody that doesn't play consistently good defense hurts the team."

LMAO

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

  

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LBs Finest
Member since Sep 28th 2005
19846 posts
Tue Jul-21-09 01:07 AM

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323. "he didn't commit one way or the other"
In response to Reply # 322


  

          

and as far as shooting you dont even agree with him.

>http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-22-143/Tex-Winter-Compares-Kobe-Bryant-and-Michael-Jordan.html?username=truehoop&post=true&archiveId=22&bId=0&entryId=143&sort=oldest
>
>"Both have a good shooting touch. Some people say Kobe is a
>better shooter, but Michael really developed as a shooter as
>he went along. I don't know if Kobe is a better shooter than
>Michael was at his best."

>
>""I'd like to see him play better defense," Winter said...
>Bryant has adopted a save-energy plan on the defensive end,
>Winter said. "He's basically playing a lot of one-man zone.
>He's doing a lot of switching, zoning up, trying to come up
>with the interception.
>
>"The way Kobe plays defensively affects the team," Winter
>added. "Anybody that doesn't play consistently good defense
>hurts the team."
>
>LMAO
>

i think we all know by now kobe plays d when he wants to.

_________________________

  

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DaHumanA8stract
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880 posts
Tue Jul-21-09 05:39 AM

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325. "hmmm"
In response to Reply # 323
Tue Jul-21-09 05:43 AM by DaHumanA8stract

          

rriiiiight

"iamrecogninzingthatthevoi
ceinsidemyheadisurgingm
etobemyselfandneverfollow
someoneelse..." - Q-Tip

  

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40thStreetBlack
Charter member
27116 posts
Tue Jul-21-09 10:16 AM

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326. " oooh you mad! lmao"
In response to Reply # 323


          

he commited to it not being clear Kobe is a better shooter than Jordan + suggested Mike at his best was the better shooter.


>and as far as shooting you dont even agree with him.

oh so *now* you wanna take my word over the man who's coached them both for many years?



.....LOL.

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LBs Finest
Member since Sep 28th 2005
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Tue Jul-21-09 03:41 PM

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348. "tex is just playing favorites"
In response to Reply # 326


  

          

>he commited to it not being clear Kobe is a better shooter
>than Jordan + suggested Mike at his best was the better
>shooter.

he's always hated on kobe for ignoring his old ass.

>
>
>>and as far as shooting you dont even agree with him.
>
>oh so *now* you wanna take my word over the man who's coached
>them both for many years?
>
>
>
>.....LOL.
>

lol foh. i take the word of the nigga SPITTIN TRUTH, which in this case is you, even though you are wrong pretty often

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40thStreetBlack
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Wed Jul-22-09 09:44 AM

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352. "feel is just stroking kobe ego"
In response to Reply # 348


          

>he's always hated on kobe for ignoring his old ass.

tex just telling the truth.

and maybe if kobe hadn't ignored tex he'd be on mike's level.


>lol foh. i take the word of the nigga SPITTIN TRUTH, which in
>this case is you, even though you are wrong pretty often

lol - you the guy who think kobe a better scorer than mike, which pretty much invalidates your opionion on... well, anything.

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rl9
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Tue Jul-21-09 03:15 AM

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324. "ETHER. and some of ya'll act like mike was a lucky shooter LOL"
In response to Reply # 322
Tue Jul-21-09 03:16 AM by rl9

  

          

like a dude that will take a shot from outside from time to time and then hit those shots because u know...he was mike after all. eff that.

just like tex says he developed a lethal shot as his career went on. BUT he was still attacking the rim at 40 years old. because that's what made his game unstoppable. he wasn't driving from time to time. and he wasn't taking it to the hoop because he couldn't shoot.


anyway, ALL DEFENSE TEAM LMAO!!!
how about that comparison in a thread? i predict 400+ replies explainin why kobe is a more pure ball swiper. he just looks more effortless making those steals.

''i went from bashful to asshole to international''- CdoubleO

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Tue Jul-21-09 10:23 AM

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328. "LOL. Phil Jackson just said Kobe is the better shooter "
In response to Reply # 324


  

          


And y'all ignored and copped pleas.

Just saying


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O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


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rl9
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Tue Jul-21-09 03:32 PM

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347. "yeah he said he perhaps is the better outside shooter"
In response to Reply # 328


  

          

and then told you why mj is the better scorer even mentioning the FGs.
and keep ignoring what tex says.
if you look at mj in his last third of his career he's mastered that range.
these statements will be upped anytime some ignoramus will try to compare their games trying to up kobe's game above mj's.

''i went from bashful to asshole to international''- CdoubleO

  

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Orbit_Established
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Tue Jul-21-09 10:22 AM

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327. "Wait - did you just admit Kobe has the wider array of skills? "
In response to Reply # 318


  

          


Oh.

And I understand the "Jordan's array was more narrow,
but he was more skilled in that more narrow range" plea
cop, but I'm glad someone is admitting that Kobe has a
wider diversity of offensive skills, a point that I find
integral to the "pure scorer" debate




----------------------------

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O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

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rl9
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Tue Jul-21-09 03:50 PM

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349. "u got three people that coached/played with both that say MJ was the bet..."
In response to Reply # 327
Tue Jul-21-09 03:52 PM by rl9

  

          

scorer and player.
who's copping pleas? LOL
why am i even wasting my time here? we already seen what type of bball 'analysis' (aka pure kobe assjuice lickery) some of ya'll are capable of.

''i went from bashful to asshole to international''- CdoubleO

  

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40thStreetBlack
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Wed Jul-22-09 10:09 AM

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355. " yeah... and?"
In response to Reply # 327
Wed Jul-22-09 10:37 AM by 40thStreetBlack

          

>And I understand the "Jordan's array was more narrow,
>but he was more skilled in that more narrow range" plea
>cop, but I'm glad someone is admitting that Kobe has a
>wider diversity of offensive skills, a point that I find
>integral to the "pure scorer" debate

am I to infer from this... well whatever argument you were trying to make, that you think Kobe has a higher skill level than Jordan and is a better overall scorer?

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Wed Jul-22-09 10:21 AM

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357. "No. But Kobe has a wider array of scoring skills than Jordan. "
In response to Reply # 355


  

          


In my view, that is CENTRAL to the "pure scorer"
debate.

Kobe can score in more ways than Jordan can.

Doesn't mean he's better, but that is very, very,
very, important to this discussion.


----------------------------

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O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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40thStreetBlack
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Wed Jul-22-09 01:34 PM

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363. "so basically Kobe's skill level isn't higher + Mike's the better scorer"
In response to Reply # 357


          

I don't see what the issue is here really.

>In my view, that is CENTRAL to the "pure scorer"
>debate.

http://www.filtersfast.com/ProdImages/pur-3.jpg


>Kobe can score in more ways than Jordan can.

not really. Kobe has a wider array of elite offensive skills, but that doesn't mean Jordan was ineffective at the things Kobe is better than him at. unless you want to try to tell me that Jordan was incapable at shooting from long range/3-pt


>Doesn't mean he's better,

exactly. end of post.

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Wed Jul-22-09 02:31 PM

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366. "Mad. "
In response to Reply # 363


  

          


Didn't know you had a horse in this race.

What would Jesus Do?




























































Not be mad.




----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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40thStreetBlack
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Wed Jul-22-09 03:30 PM

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368. "cheezy-e better scorer than willie. "
In response to Reply # 366


          

cry.

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DaHumanA8stract
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880 posts
Tue Jul-21-09 10:38 AM

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330. "remembering kb24overrated.com"
In response to Reply # 0


          

its old..but whatever..

http://web.archive.org/web/20080206155722/http://www.kb24overrated.com/in-depth_statistics

Percentage of 50+ point games against teams with winning records

Michael Jordan: 71%
Kobe Bryant: 27%



Record in games with 30+ shot attempts

Michael Jordan: 72-57 (.558)
Kobe Bryant: 31-39 (.443)



Percentage of points scored on free throws

Michael Jordan: 23%
Kobe Bryant: 26%



Percentage of points scored on two point field goals

Michael Jordan: 72%
Kobe Bryant: 59%



Three point field goal attempts per game

Michael Jordan: 1.66
Kobe Bryant: 3.54



Career PER

Michael Jordan: 27.91
Kobe Bryant: 23.49


Highest PER season

Michael Jordan: 31.71
Kobe Bryant: 27.97


Seasons with 30+ PER

Michael Jordan: 4
Kobe Bryant: 0



Seasons with 28+ PER

Michael Jordan: 7
Kobe Bryant: 0



Seasons with 25+ PER

Michael Jordan: 12
Kobe Bryant: 3

What Is PER?

Player Efficiency Rating is a formula that uses a player’s stats to determine how productive and efficient he is in his time on the court. If he shoots the ball frequently, but does not convert on as many of his shots, his rating goes down. If he turns the ball over frequently, his rating goes down. If he is efficient and contributes an all-around performance, his rating goes up. Due to factors such as lower shooting percentages, it is almost impossible for a guard to have a very high career PER (such as above 25).



Shooting in 50 point games

Of the 143 50 point games since 1986 in the regular season, Michael Jordan has the #1, #5 and #8 games in terms of shooting percentage. He has three more in the top 25. Kobe's most efficient game is #12.



Kobe Bryant has the three worst shooting 50 point games not only since 1986, but the three worst 50 point games (in terms of efficiency) in NBA history. These are among the few games in history in which a player scored 50 points, but didn't even make half of his shots from the field. In other words, these are achievements of volume shooting, not efficiency. But these aren't flukes, either. In terms of shooting, Kobe also has 7 of the 15 worst, and 10 of the 25 worst 50 point games since 1986. That's half of all of his 50 point efforts. Jordan has merely one game in the bottom 25.

Jordan's #1, #5 and #8 games

24-29, 52 points, Nov. 16, 1988

21-27, 59 points, April 3, 1988

21-28, 53 points, March 7, 1996

Kobe's 3 worst 50 pt. games in history

17-38, 53 points, December 15, 2006

19-44, 53 points, March 30, 2007

17-41, 50 points, January 7, 2006

"iamrecogninzingthatthevoi
ceinsidemyheadisurgingm
etobemyselfandneverfollow
someoneelse..." - Q-Tip

  

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Thee Phantom
Member since Jul 18th 2005
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Tue Jul-21-09 10:47 AM

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332. "If the Debate Rages On After This..."
In response to Reply # 330


          

you either are a Kobe Bryant jock support sniffer or you are a friend of Juanita and think she should've gotten more money.

IG: @illharmonic.orchestra
Youtube: www.youtube.com/theephantom

  

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DaHumanA8stract
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Tue Jul-21-09 10:54 AM

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335. "more "useless" observations..."
In response to Reply # 332


          

from the now defunct kb24overrated.com

http://web.archive.org/web/20080207064221/http://kb24overrated.com/projections_and_observations

Projections and Observations

What If?

If Kobe were to play another ten seasons of 80 games apiece (for 800 games total), he would have to average over 35.5 points per game for the rest of his career to match Jordan's career scoring average. He hasn't even had one season that high.

If Kobe were to play another 8 years (for 640 more games), he would need to average 36.9 points per game.

If Kobe were to play another 5 years (for 400 games, which is what Kobe has hinted is his approximate time left), he would need to average 40 ppg.

If Kobe were to match Jordan's scoring average by the time he has been playing as long as Jordan did (1072 games), he would need to average 45.1 ppg.

If Kobe were to play until he's 50 years old (another 21 seasons), he would still have to average 32.6 ppg just to near Jordan's scoring average.

Kobe could make 1500 consecutive shots, and he still wouldn't be above Jordan in shooting efficiency.

If Kobe were to take 2000 shots per season for the next 5 years, he would need to shoot 56.3% from the field to reach Jordan's field goal percentage. No guard has ever shot 56% from the field. Kobe has never even shot 47% for one season.

If Kobe were to play for another decade and takes 1500 shots each season, he would need to make more than 54% of them.

In order to match Jordan's assists numbers by the time he's played as long as Jordan did, Kobe needs to average 7.2 assists per game. Kobe has never even done this for a week.

When is a player shooting too much?

Kobe has shot basically the league average for his career. Jordan was so efficient on offense that he would frequently be found in the top ten players in the league in field goal percentage during midseason. Jordan always shot far above league average.

Michael Jordan also shot much better than his team shot during his career with the Chicago Bulls, more than justifying the number of shots he took. In fact, Jordan probably would have won more games had he not placed so much trust in his teammates.

Kobe, on the other hand, has shot worse than his own team in 9 of his 11 seasons. Yet Kobe does not place any trust in his teammates. In effect, Kobe is actually hurting his team by trying to carry so much of the offensive load; he would probably win more games if he passed to teammates for easy opportunities.



Observations

Michael Jordan averaged 30 points per game during the slowest paced era in NBA history. He scored much more with much greater efficiency in less opportunities. This is based upon fact, not opinion. Number of possessions per game reached an all-time low during the mid and late 1990s.

The era in which Jordan played is incomparable with the one in which Kobe plays. Jordan played in an era that featured not only the most competition, but the toughest, most physical defenses in NBA history. There was no flagrant foul throughout the 1980s. Free throws were rarely awarded for fouls. Another fact is that the tallest era in NBA history was the late 1980s, when Jordan was dominating the league as no guard has ever done.

The point that there was no zone defense in the 1980s is moot when it is applied to Jordan's situation. Defenses consistently attempted to triple team Jordan, only to fail. Not even the best teams in the league could stop Jordan individually. Defenses quickly learned that the only way to stop Jordan was with HARD contact. There is still no true zone in the NBA. Due to defensive violation rules such as the 3-second lane rule, a zone is impossible in the NBA.

The modern era features rules that are completely geared to favor offensive minded wing players. Kobe is an offensive minded wing player. No handchecking rules prevent close perimeter defense. Fouls are called and free throws awarded on minimal to no contact. As Phil Jackson himself points out, "Michael would average 45 with these rules". In the modern league, few players even elect to play defense. The few great defensive teams in the modern league, such as Chicago, Detroit and San Antonio, consistently stop Kobe.

"iamrecogninzingthatthevoi
ceinsidemyheadisurgingm
etobemyselfandneverfollow
someoneelse..." - Q-Tip

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Tue Jul-21-09 10:58 AM

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337. "LMAO!!!!! AWFUL!!!!"
In response to Reply # 335


  

          


>If Kobe were to play another ten seasons of 80 games apiece
>(for 800 games total), he would have to average over 35.5
>points per game for the rest of his career to match Jordan's
>career scoring average. He hasn't even had one season that
>high.

Uh-

Kobe came out of senior year of high school

Jordan came out of junior year of college

Kobe played with a hall of fame center who got all
the touches his first like 8 years

Jordan was gunning from the time he joined the
Bulls

>If Kobe were to play another 8 years (for 640 more games), he
>would need to average 36.9 points per game.

LOL Awful

>If Kobe were to play another 5 years (for 400 games, which is
>what Kobe has hinted is his approximate time left), he would
>need to average 40 ppg.

LOL

Desperate and pathetic


----------------------------

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O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

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the sway
Member since Sep 08th 2002
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Wed Jul-22-09 10:58 AM

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358. "at least try to normalize these then"
In response to Reply # 337


          

the shaq factor can't be normalized, i agree

but if we take out kobe's first 3 years in the league, he is averaging 28.16 PPG

jordan, over his career, averaged 30.12 ppg.

through jordans's first 10 seasons (these are both players first 10 seasons after being 3 years out of HS, i.e. taking out kobe's first three years and jordans last 5...note that this includes jordans 17 games in 94-95 when he made his comeback), he averaged 32.16 PPG

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Fri Jul-24-09 02:56 AM

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375. "No, you're just shape shifting the numbers to fit your conclusion. "
In response to Reply # 358


  

          


That's not the way statistics works, dunny

Wrong


----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
21925 posts
Tue Jul-21-09 12:25 PM

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342. "^^^ROMAN CANDLE CAUSTIC ACID METEOR SHOWER FIYA!!!!!"
In response to Reply # 335


  

          

Damn.

>Kobe could make 1500 consecutive shots, and he still wouldn't
>be above Jordan in shooting efficiency.
>
>If Kobe were to take 2000 shots per season for the next 5
>years, he would need to shoot 56.3% from the field to reach
>Jordan's field goal percentage. No guard has ever shot 56%
>from the field. Kobe has never even shot 47% for one season.
>
>If Kobe were to play for another decade and takes 1500 shots
>each season, he would need to make more than 54% of them.
>
>In order to match Jordan's assists numbers by the time he's
>played as long as Jordan did, Kobe needs to average 7.2
>assists per game. Kobe has never even done this for a week.

http://www.saintpetercatholic.com/images/main-church.jpg

>When is a player shooting too much?
>
>Kobe has shot basically the league average for his career.
>Jordan was so efficient on offense that he would frequently be
>found in the top ten players in the league in field goal
>percentage during midseason. Jordan always shot far above
>league average.
>
>Michael Jordan also shot much better than his team shot during
>his career with the Chicago Bulls, more than justifying the
>number of shots he took. In fact, Jordan probably would have
>won more games had he not placed so much trust in his
>teammates.
>
>Kobe, on the other hand, has shot worse than his own team in 9
>of his 11 seasons. Yet Kobe does not place any trust in his
>teammates. In effect, Kobe is actually hurting his team by
>trying to carry so much of the offensive load; he would
>probably win more games if he passed to teammates for easy
>opportunities.

http://proudatheists.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/preach.jpg

>Observations
>
>Michael Jordan averaged 30 points per game during the slowest
>paced era in NBA history. He scored much more with much
>greater efficiency in less opportunities. This is based upon
>fact, not opinion. Number of possessions per game reached an
>all-time low during the mid and late 1990s.
>
>The era in which Jordan played is incomparable with the one in
>which Kobe plays. Jordan played in an era that featured not
>only the most competition, but the toughest, most physical
>defenses in NBA history. There was no flagrant foul
>throughout the 1980s. Free throws were rarely awarded for
>fouls. Another fact is that the tallest era in NBA history
>was the late 1980s, when Jordan was dominating the league as
>no guard has ever done.
>
>The point that there was no zone defense in the 1980s is moot
>when it is applied to Jordan's situation. Defenses
>consistently attempted to triple team Jordan, only to fail.
>Not even the best teams in the league could stop Jordan
>individually. Defenses quickly learned that the only way to
>stop Jordan was with HARD contact. There is still no true
>zone in the NBA. Due to defensive violation rules such as the
>3-second lane rule, a zone is impossible in the NBA.
>
>The modern era features rules that are completely geared to
>favor offensive minded wing players. Kobe is an offensive
>minded wing player. No handchecking rules prevent close
>perimeter defense. Fouls are called and free throws awarded
>on minimal to no contact. As Phil Jackson himself points out,
>"Michael would average 45 with these rules". In the modern
>league, few players even elect to play defense. The few great
>defensive teams in the modern league, such as Chicago, Detroit
>and San Antonio, consistently stop Kobe.

http://www.spiritjournals.com/Bible%20Studies/The%20Tabernacle%20Of%20Moses%20Study/_borders/top.ht28.jpg

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Tue Jul-21-09 10:56 AM

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336. "LOL. LOL LOL Pathetic"
In response to Reply # 330


  

          




>Percentage of 50+ point games against teams with winning
>records
>
>Michael Jordan: 71%
>Kobe Bryant: 27%

Doesn't account for the Shaq years when Shaq
was the # option against good teams

Jordan was always the number one option,
from day one


>Record in games with 30+ shot attempts

>Michael Jordan: 72-57 (.558)
>Kobe Bryant: 31-39 (.443)

Doesn't account for the fact that Kobe played with
a D-League team after Shaq left, and that Jordan
played with two hall of fame supporting case members
when he was the #1 option, neither of whom were big
shooters

LOL

LOL

LOL




>Player Efficiency Rating is a formula that uses a player’s
>stats to determine how productive and efficient he is in his
>time on the court. If he shoots the ball frequently, but does
>not convert on as many of his shots, his rating goes down. If
>he turns the ball over frequently, his rating goes down. If
>he is efficient and contributes an all-around performance, his
>rating goes up. Due to factors such as lower shooting
>percentages, it is almost impossible for a guard to have a
>very high career PER (such as above 25).

LOL

This could be because Jordan was the better defender,
which isn't what we're debating here

LOL

LOL

LOL



>Of the 143 50 point games since 1986 in the regular season,
>Michael Jordan has the #1, #5 and #8 games in terms of
>shooting percentage. He has three more in the top 25. Kobe's
>most efficient game is #12.
>
>
>
>Kobe Bryant has the three worst shooting 50 point games not
>only since 1986, but the three worst 50 point games (in terms
>of efficiency) in NBA history. These are among the few games
>in history in which a player scored 50 points, but didn't even
>make half of his shots from the field. In other words, these
>are achievements of volume shooting, not efficiency. But
>these aren't flukes, either. In terms of shooting, Kobe also
>has 7 of the 15 worst, and 10 of the 25 worst 50 point games
>since 1986. That's half of all of his 50 point efforts.
>Jordan has merely one game in the bottom 25.

Not accounting for the fact that Jordan had real #2 options,
while Kobe had jack shit until this season, really

LOL



----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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DaHumanA8stract
Charter member
880 posts
Tue Jul-21-09 11:06 AM

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338. "really man?"
In response to Reply # 336
Tue Jul-21-09 11:25 AM by DaHumanA8stract

          

>
>
>
>>Percentage of 50+ point games against teams with winning
>>records
>>
>>Michael Jordan: 71%
>>Kobe Bryant: 27%
>
>Doesn't account for the Shaq years when Shaq
>was the # option against good teams
>
>Jordan was always the number one option,
>from day one


doesn't account for the Shaq years?? in 01-04 kobe averaged more shots a game than shaq!




"iamrecogninzingthatthevoi
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etobemyselfandneverfollow
someoneelse..." - Q-Tip

  

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Beamer6178
Member since Jan 09th 2006
6379 posts
Tue Jul-21-09 11:37 AM

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339. "please please please please just shut the fuck up"
In response to Reply # 336


  

          

when a player scores 50 points, OPTIONS really aren't a factor, at this point either they're on fricking fire, or nobody else is hitting on shit so they have to go off. missing 6 or 7 shots in a game that you go for 50+ is fucking BANANAS.

i hadn't even checked this site in forever and it's sad how kobe pales in comparison to MJ when its laid out like that. kobe is a spectacularly great player no doubt, and obviously in the lexicon of great all time perimeter players.

but can we just chill with all the extra shit until his career is finished? finding one minutae to dissect and analyze is silly and discredits him as much as it does mj's full body of work. let the cat finish playing then lay them out side by side.

until then it's just emotional bickering, on BOTH sides.

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
26425 posts
Tue Jul-21-09 01:27 PM

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344. "was this bait for me? i can't tell"
In response to Reply # 336


  

          


>Doesn't account for the Shaq years when Shaq
>was the # option against good teams

percentage, dawg, percentage. your point is basically irrelevant to that stat.

>>Record in games with 30+ shot attempts
>
>>Michael Jordan: 72-57 (.558)
>>Kobe Bryant: 31-39 (.443)
>
>Doesn't account for the fact that Kobe played with
>a D-League team after Shaq left, and that Jordan
>played with two hall of fame supporting case members
>when he was the #1 option, neither of whom were big
>shooters

the jordan plea cop *might* be valid (except, of course, you use shaq as a plea cop and then use pippen as a plea cop the other way). Plus, Pau (you know, Kobe's #2 option) took fewer shots per game than Pippen did with MJ.

plus, it isn't hard to organize the games with 30+ shots using the web (internet stats are fun!). 28 of them came before Shaq left (they lost 16 of those) and 8 were this season (lost five of them).

So, with a legit #2 option (shaq and/or pau), Bean went 15-21.

actually, Shaq missed 10 of those games. kobe went 4-6 when taking 30 shots without shaq then, so his with shaq #s are 11-15. still not pretty.

>Not accounting for the fact that Jordan had real #2 options,
>while Kobe had jack shit until this season, really

he had Pau half last season. and GCOAT. and Odom.

-----------
mas que un club

08-09 Survivor Champion.

"I mean, I can pigeonhole people because I'm close-minded. But I'm special and different." (c) Walleye

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
21925 posts
Tue Jul-21-09 12:14 PM

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341. "^^^^LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL HOT LAVA ETHER SUNSPOT FIYAH!!!!1!!!!1!!!!!!!!1"
In response to Reply # 330


  

          










































































































































waddup o?

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Tue Jul-21-09 12:38 PM

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343. "LOL - The Tex Winter comments were better than that site, doggie"
In response to Reply # 341


  

          


That site was a joke

LOL

Complete Joke

You got sites claiming Wilt was better than
Jordan

http://wiltfan.tripod.com/wiltrules.html


----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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Beamer6178
Member since Jan 09th 2006
6379 posts
Tue Jul-21-09 02:08 PM

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345. "RE: LOL - The Tex Winter comments were better than that site, doggie"
In response to Reply # 343


  

          

>
>That site was a joke
>
>LOL
>
>Complete Joke
>
>You got sites claiming Wilt was better than
>Jordan
>
>http://wiltfan.tripod.com/wiltrules.html


this looks like something jahlove constructed with crayola crayons when he was in the 5th grade. i'm disappointed i didn't see any fun facts about wilt dunking over a redwood and then pulling it out of the ground to hit a grand slam with, then bench pressing it 300 times while jump roping

  

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LBs Finest
Member since Sep 28th 2005
19846 posts
Tue Jul-21-09 04:58 PM

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351. "LMAO, dog when i seen "Wilt Rules!"..i lost it lol"
In response to Reply # 345


  

          

i tried to picture a teenage jahlove constructing that site...with help from his high school classmate suaved

_________________________

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Wed Jul-22-09 09:53 AM

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353. "That site is no worse than the Kobe is overrated site. "
In response to Reply # 345


  

          


Its statistics are least as (in)valid.

For example, look at all the work that the Kobe
site put into arguing that Kobe's average per game
will never be as high as MJ's. That point is easily
ether-able when you consider that Kobe joined the NBA
out of high school to a team that was barely in the
lottery, and Jordan was a top 3 pick to a team that was
hideous. Kobe barely played his first season.

That Kobe site is embarrassing.

----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
26425 posts
Wed Jul-22-09 10:05 AM

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354. "so take out kobe's three first years"
In response to Reply # 353


  

          

and have him enter the NBA at the age of 21 his average is 28.1.

jordan at age 30 averaged 32.3.

even taking out those first two seasons, it would take more than 3 years averaging 35 points to get to jordan's career average of 30.1, which includes jordan's two years with the wiz. it would take 2 years of averaging 40 to get to 30.1.

your stat doubting game is seriously flawed.

-----------
mas que un club

08-09 Survivor Champion.

"I mean, I can pigeonhole people because I'm close-minded. But I'm special and different." (c) Walleye

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Wed Jul-22-09 10:18 AM

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356. "LMFBAO!!!!! ^FAILLLLLL"
In response to Reply # 354
Wed Jul-22-09 10:19 AM by Orbit_Established

  

          

Motherfucka, when did Michael Jordan play with one of the
5 best centers to ever play the game?

In fact - when did Jordan *ever* play with another player
capable of scoring more than *22* points per game?





















































































































































































Never.


(Pippen didn't even do that when Jordan was GONE)


Two points for Orbit.




And the second best scorer Jordan ever played
with was who?

Scottie Pippen. When did Pippen arrive? 1987-1988


Guess what season Jordan averaged the most ppg?
















































































































































































































You guessed, the YEAR BEFORE SCOTTIE PIPPEN JOINED
THE TEAM, and even better, his scoring average DROPPED
(overall) AS SCOTTIE PIPPEN'S ROSE.


So unless you can control for the SCORERS THEY
PLAYED ALONGSIDE WITH, than these "per game"
arguments are pure idiocy

And HILARIOUS








>and have him enter the NBA at the age of 21 his average is
>28.1.
>
>jordan at age 30 averaged 32.3.


>even taking out those first two seasons, it would take more
>than 3 years averaging 35 points to get to jordan's career
>average of 30.1, which includes jordan's two years with the
>wiz. it would take 2 years of averaging 40 to get to 30.1.





----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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DaHumanA8stract
Charter member
880 posts
Wed Jul-22-09 11:04 AM

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359. "read post 338"
In response to Reply # 356


          

>Motherfucka, when did Michael Jordan play with one of the
>5 best centers to ever play the game?
>
>In fact - when did Jordan *ever* play with another player
>capable of scoring more than *22* points per game?
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>with was who?
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>Scottie Pippen. When did Pippen arrive? 1987-1988
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>You guessed, the YEAR BEFORE SCOTTIE PIPPEN JOINED
>THE TEAM, and even better, his scoring average DROPPED
>(overall) AS SCOTTIE PIPPEN'S ROSE.
>
>
>So unless you can control for the SCORERS THEY
>PLAYED ALONGSIDE WITH, than these "per game"
>arguments are pure idiocy
>
>And HILARIOUS
>
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>>and have him enter the NBA at the age of 21 his average is
>>28.1.
>>
>>jordan at age 30 averaged 32.3.
>
>
>>even taking out those first two seasons, it would take more
>>than 3 years averaging 35 points to get to jordan's career
>>average of 30.1, which includes jordan's two years with the
>>wiz. it would take 2 years of averaging 40 to get to 30.1.
>
>
>
>
>
>----------------------------
>
>http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others
>
>
>O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.
>
>
>"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."
>
>(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

"iamrecogninzingthatthevoi
ceinsidemyheadisurgingm
etobemyselfandneverfollow
someoneelse..." - Q-Tip

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
26425 posts
Wed Jul-22-09 11:09 AM

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361. "this is such an epic fail by you, it's sad"
In response to Reply # 356


  

          

>Motherfucka, when did Michael Jordan play with one of the
>5 best centers to ever play the game?

>In fact - when did Jordan *ever* play with another player
>capable of scoring more than *22* points per game?

pippen wasn't capable of it? lol. right. in pippen's ONLY year as the #1 option while in his prime age, he scored 22. i think he was more than capable, had MJ not been there, of improving on that.

but nice try.


>And the second best scorer Jordan ever played
>with was who?
>
>Scottie Pippen. When did Pippen arrive? 1987-1988
>
>
>Guess what season Jordan averaged the most ppg?

you want i should throw out that season? it doesn't change much. juke the stats however you want, Jordan still scores more. Jordan's career average falls all the way to...29.5

>So unless you can control for the SCORERS THEY
>PLAYED ALONGSIDE WITH, than these "per game"
>arguments are pure idiocy
>
>And HILARIOUS

this, by the way, is where the epic L comes into play.

Jordan's #2 option nearly his entire career was Pippen. he had two full seasons before pippen and 2 shitty seasons in washington without pippen.

so he ALWAYS had a 15-20 point scorer as his right hand man (except in washington). you know, a legit #2.

K.obe's PPG best seasons were with Lamar Odom scoring 14.8 and 15.9.

question: how many points did oakley score per game with jordan in jordan's 37 ppg season?

answer: 14.5

question: how many points did woolridge score in jordan's rookie season?

answer: 22.9

btw, Lamar has never once even gotten 20 ppg.

so yeah, this canard of "but kobe played with better scorers" is bullshit. Kobe's best years came with Lamar Odom as his #2 scoring threat. Who scored the same amount that year AS CHARLES OAKLEY for Jordan's best year.

so if we're gonna throw out Jordan's years sans pippen, you better believe we should throw out Kobe's best two years (actually, 3 of his best 5).

and it's not like shaq held him down in terms of scoring chances. Bryant's "usage" was the same in his years with shaq as those without (except his "gunner" year of 35 ppg). in fact--again excluding gunner year--he took more shots per game with shaq in 02-03 than any other year.

in conclusion:
-if having no big scoring second option inflates one's PPG, then Kobe's best years are horribly inflated.
-shaq didn't really limit kobe's chances to score statistically. if anything, he probably helped (who got double teamed? who got an open look off of that?)
-if we take out all the shaq years and only look at post-shaq kobe compared to same age jordan, kobe gets 29.9 from the age of 26-30. Jordan NEVER AVERAGED BELOW 30 between the age of 26-30. his ppg was 31.9

your move, O_E.

-----------
mas que un club

08-09 Survivor Champion.

"I mean, I can pigeonhole people because I'm close-minded. But I'm special and different." (c) Walleye

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Wed Jul-22-09 01:49 PM

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364. "LMFAO!!! O_E got cats FLUSTERED and MAKING SHIT UP. LOL LOL"
In response to Reply # 361


  

          


LOL

You've been reduced to:

"Subtract the Shaq years and multiply them by the square
root of the number of threes Jordan hit in 1988 and divide
it by the Kobe's teammates from Europe during his career,
divided by the square root of hoes on earth"

Motherfucka, all that gymnastics means one thing:

THE COMPARISON ISN'T VALID BECAUSE THERE ARE TOO MANY
THINGS TO CONSIDER.

That's why DIRECTLY COMPARING PPG AVERAGES IS FUCKING
STUPID.

THERE ARE 1000000000000 arguments as to why Jordan is the
better scorer and player.

The problem is, y'all keep MAKING SHIT UP and its goddamn
HILARIOUS. Motherfuckers won't even admit Kobe was a better
LONG RANGE SHOOTER, which even Phil Jackson admits

PPG AVERAGE OVER HIS CAREER does not mean ANYTHING in this
debate.

Kobe came out of HIGH SCHOOL, went to play with one of the
5 best CENTERS EVER, played with a D-League team for a few
years before playing with an all around talented squad.

And Jordan - even his BEST PPG seasons were not the ones
where he was the DEADLIEST OFFENSIVELY!!!

^^^See how I just RUINED YOUR POST...Haha...if PPG and offensive
deadliness are not proportional, that relationship falls apart
and cannot be used to argue for Jordan's offensive superiority


GODDDAAAAAAMMMNNNN THE Orbster making em mad

>in conclusion:
>-if having no big scoring second option inflates one's PPG,
>then Kobe's best years are horribly inflated.

LOL - Further reason why using PPG is stupid:

Kobe has been sandwiched between playing with one of
the 5 greatest centers ever, in his PRIME and playing
with D-League players. And even worse, TO PEOPLE WHO
WATCHED THE FUCKING GAMES, Kobe was about as GOOD and
DEADLY scorer THIS YEAR or LAST YEAR as he was during the
35ppg SEASON. <---see what I did? Just ethered the use of
PPG as a standard for anything


>-shaq didn't really limit kobe's chances to score
>statistically. if anything, he probably helped (who got double
>teamed? who got an open look off of that?)

LOL. You never watched the games

>-if we take out all the shaq years and only look at post-shaq
>kobe compared to same age jordan, kobe gets 29.9 from the age
>of 26-30. Jordan NEVER AVERAGED BELOW 30 between the age of
>26-30. his ppg was 31.9

"subtract the Shaq years and multiply them by the square
root of the number of threes Jordan hit in 1988 and divide
it by the Kobe's teammates from Europe during his career,
divided by the square root of hoes on earth"


*Yawn*



----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
26425 posts
Wed Jul-22-09 03:04 PM

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367. "pleas copped and accepted"
In response to Reply # 364


  

          

show me where i made something up.

every excuse you've made for bean's lower scoring average + shooting percentage has been shot down.

>"Subtract the Shaq years and multiply them by the square
>root of the number of threes Jordan hit in 1988 and divide
>it by the Kobe's teammates from Europe during his career,
>divided by the square root of hoes on earth"

funny...you made that quote up in a post about me making things up.


>^^^See how I just RUINED YOUR POST...Haha...if PPG and
>offensive
>deadliness are not proportional, that relationship falls
>apart
>and cannot be used to argue for Jordan's offensive
>superiority

LMAO...verbiage doesn't equal logic. "offensive deadliness" wtf is that? i bet it's a combination of scoring a lot and scoring effectively. right? who does that better? right...

(btw, you mean correlated and/or causally related. proportional isn't the right term)

>LOL - Further reason why using PPG is stupid:

i didn't i was directly responding to your plea about why kobe's ppg is lower. you started talking about ppg alone, not i.

>Kobe has been sandwiched between playing with one of
>the 5 greatest centers ever, in his PRIME and playing
>with D-League players. And even worse, TO PEOPLE WHO
>WATCHED THE FUCKING GAMES, Kobe was about as GOOD and
>DEADLY scorer THIS YEAR or LAST YEAR as he was during the
>35ppg SEASON. <---see what I did? Just ethered the use of
>PPG as a standard for anything

and none of those years are as good as Jordan's best years, statistically, or in terms of "offensive deadliness" according to someone who watched both of those seasons (this, of course, excludes LB and includes everyone who disagrees with you and...you).

damn i'm good.

>>-if we take out all the shaq years and only look at
>post-shaq
>>kobe compared to same age jordan, kobe gets 29.9 from the
>age
>>of 26-30. Jordan NEVER AVERAGED BELOW 30 between the age of
>>26-30. his ppg was 31.9
>
>"subtract the Shaq years and multiply them by the square
>root of the number of threes Jordan hit in 1988 and divide
>it by the Kobe's teammates from Europe during his career,
>divided by the square root of hoes on earth"

i've seen that quote before...someone made it up...was it me or you? you could have just covered your ears and said "i'm not listening" when stats got used and it would have been more effective a defense of bean.

from 26-30, bean and jordan both played in the triangle as the single focal point of the offense. both had a complementary player as #2 option, for a while, bean had the worse one (Odom), for a while, the better one (Pau). Bean did not, during those years, ever score as much as jordan, or as efficiently as Jordan. bean averages fewer assists, so it probably wasn't cuz he was passing more. bean averaged more turnovers, so it wasn't like he had the ball less (and if he did, ouch). their "usage" stat was the same. it's actually one of the remarkably best straight up comparisons we could have because they play the same spot on the floor in the same offense. and jordan's smacking bean around in the scoring.


-----------
mas que un club

08-09 Survivor Champion.

"I mean, I can pigeonhole people because I'm close-minded. But I'm special and different." (c) Walleye

  

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mtbatol
Member since May 22nd 2002
19788 posts
Sun Jul-26-09 10:21 AM

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434. "lol @ Orbit not responding to this post directly"
In response to Reply # 367


          

This gets more & more hilarious as i scroll down XD

  

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Beamer6178
Member since Jan 09th 2006
6379 posts
Thu Jul-23-09 03:25 PM

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369. "please put down the microphone and walk away"
In response to Reply # 364


  

          

each successive post you make in here you clown yourself to epic heights, even for you. you make posts to make points that when blown apart, you run away from and hide back to your initial points that were tenuous at best.

but keep on though, i need things to do in between taking shits and sending work emails.

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Fri Jul-24-09 02:37 AM

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373. "LOL. You post like a fat nigga at the club"
In response to Reply # 369


  

          


Seriously -

You're posting like the fat nigga at the club buying
dimes drinks, and getting upset when they get nowhere.

The Kobe supporters post like fat niggas talking to fat
girls - we're willing to take Ls on several points, but
we're going to go home with some pussy

Y'all are the delusional ones, not us

See, the Kobe supporters in this post are MORE THAN
willing to admit that the comparison is CLOSE and ALL
concede MANY POINTS to Jordan.

The problem is the Jordan supporters -- they want to give up
NO GROUND AT ALL. They don't want to admit Kobe was a better
long range shooter. They use dumbass shit like PER to compare
them, and then turn around use even more irrelevant shit like
career PPG to compare them....and then when Phil Jackson, out
of his own mouth says "KOBE IS THE BETTER SHOOTER AND IS MORE
SKILLED" y'all cop PLEAS for "he's just being Nice to Kobe"

LOL

LOL

LOL

LOL


----------------------------

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"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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LBs Finest
Member since Sep 28th 2005
19846 posts
Fri Jul-24-09 06:13 AM

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378. "these dudes are probably steaming mad at phil jackson right now lol."
In response to Reply # 373
Fri Jul-24-09 06:57 AM by LBs Finest

  

          

cause we know damn well that if phil had said MJ had the better J & more skills these cats woulda been QUICK to try to end this post and praise his word as gospel..since there really isn't anyone more qualified to speak on it than him.

but since he didn't they panicked and had to cop the "oh he just being loyal to kobe" plea, lmao. loyalty to kobe over mike? he wouldn't be anywhere close to Red's championship record if it wasn't for mike, he owes cheese everything. i think the only way he would ever give kobe or any other player of his the edge over mike in anything is if it were clearly true.

he just tells it like it is, i mean what would he have to gain by lying? that's why i wasn't surprised when he called rodman the best athlete he'd ever coached and i wasn't surprised when he said kobe had the best all-around court game of anyone he'd ever coached back in 01.

_________________________

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Fri Jul-24-09 09:42 AM

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384. "Phil Jackson's comments SHATTERED this entire debate. "
In response to Reply # 378
Fri Jul-24-09 09:51 AM by Orbit_Established

  

          

These dudes ain't been right since.

And its not just because he said Kobe was a better
shooter and more skilled. Its that he said it in a
NUANCED way. He didn't just say the shit in passing.

He didn't say it in a 10 second blurb.

Phil was THINKING about that shit.

And Phil has *never* been gun shy about shitting on
Kobe

EVER

He's ALWAYS been HONEST with Kobe Bryant and about
Kobe Bryant

These dumb motherfuckers in the post expect everyone
to believe that Phil Jackson was honest when he was
shitting all over Kobe in that book but is LYING about
him being more skilled and a better shooter than Jordan
now?

Why in FUCK would he do that? They have nothing but plea
cops and bullshit excuses, or plea cops about points per game
and PER rating

The fact that these niggas would RATHER USE a fucking WEBSITE
called KOBEISOVERRATED.COM than PHIL JACKSON'S ACTUAL ANALYSIS
sort of points to their silliness.

Powerful W for me, you, and the handful of others who are
original thinkers in this post

>cause we know damn well that if phil had said MJ had the
>better J & more skills these cats woulda been QUICK to try to
>end this post and praise his word as gospel..since there
>really isn't anyone more qualified to speak on it than him.

Yep

>but since he didn't they panicked and had to cop the "oh he
>just being loyal to kobe" plea, lmao. loyalty to kobe over
>mike? he wouldn't be anywhere close to Red's championship
>record if it wasn't for mike, he owes cheese everything. i
>think the only way he would ever give kobe or any other player
>of his the edge over mike in anything is if it were clearly
>true.

Totally

>he just tells it like it is, i mean what would he have to gain
>by lying? that's why i wasn't surprised when he called rodman
>the best athlete he'd ever coached and i wasn't surprised when
>he said kobe had the best all-around court game of anyone he'd
>ever coached back in 01.

Seriously


----------------------------

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O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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Beamer6178
Member since Jan 09th 2006
6379 posts
Fri Jul-24-09 01:28 PM

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408. "because you niggas are buttfucking right now"
In response to Reply # 384


  

          

i can kill it with one post, not two.

1) miss me with that jordan v. kobe supporters. these dudes are two of my five favorite NBA players ever. you got a hopeless laker homer who watched highlights of jordan because he was too young and a knick fan whose hopes and dreams were constantly being crushed by him

2) this post has been chock full of jordan AND kobe fans who have over and understated the other to make their weak ass points, so i can't speak for no one else but me

this circle jerk between u two niggas has gotten a bit much so allow me to delete the handjobs and get right to the point...


>These dumb motherfuckers in the post expect everyone
>to believe that Phil Jackson was honest when he was
>shitting all over Kobe in that book but is LYING about
>him being more skilled and a better shooter than Jordan
>now?
phil is giving what we are, his OPINION. i didn't read his gossipgirl ass book he wrote but among other things he called kobe uncoachable didn't he? and HOW long did he NOT coach him after that? two years? thanks, just checking. point is, its his OPINION and his FEELINGS, not FACT. tex winter didn't give the same ground, craig hodges said MJ all day and ain't no love lost at ALL between him and jordan and he's kobe's coach, yet phil's words reigns supreme? that is THE weakest shit to back up any points. what other people SAY, rather than at least using how each cat played, some stats, etc etc. lets agree to not make ANY person's WORDS dispositive on this ARGUABLE and not CLEAR CUT issue.


>
>Powerful W for me, you, and the handful of others who are
>original thinkers in this post
this is some gay ass shit seriously, just because it's YOUR opinion, its "original thinkers" fuck OUT of here with that

>>cause we know damn well that if phil had said MJ had the
>>better J & more skills these cats woulda been QUICK to try
>to
>>end this post and praise his word as gospel..since there
>>really isn't anyone more qualified to speak on it than him.
actually he's qualified to tell them what to do, we're ALL qualified to decide who we think is better in what aspect, since it's all opinion anyway.

and again, not putting too much into phil's words, but he plays mad psychological games with cats. to try and take everything he says for face value would be a mistake, EITHER WAY.

>Yep
>
>>but since he didn't they panicked and had to cop the "oh he
>>just being loyal to kobe" plea, lmao. loyalty to kobe over
>>mike? he wouldn't be anywhere close to Red's championship
>>record if it wasn't for mike, he owes cheese everything. i
>>think the only way he would ever give kobe or any other
>player
>>of his the edge over mike in anything is if it were clearly
>>true.

what y'all need to realize is that, this shit isn't a compromise, where ANYONE has to CONCEDE anything. you argue your point on why you think kobe's better at this that and the other, I do mine. I don't "give up" points to get you to do the same, if you wanna concede shit, fine. but if i can argue my points in a logical fashion, that's all i have to do, you don't set the rules of this shit.

now it's obvious to all their games are VERY similar, while i give the edge to jordan as a better scorer based on his decision making and how he can manufacture points when his shot is off, i don't "concede" kobe was a FAR FAR FAR or CLEARLY better long range shooter. what's FACT is that kobe shot from long range a LOT MORE, but it's not like he's ever done something jordan couldn't do, or vice versa. mike made threes, he's hit mad long range shots, clutch shots, big shots, championship type shots, he just didn't devote as much of his game to shooting from long. i will say kobe is a more prolific long range shooter and might be or was a bit more proficient than jordan, it's not sour grapes or stubbornness that makes me say might be or was a bit more, its just the fact that i believe that had jordan devoted himself to making long range shots he could have done it, bottom line, there really wasn't any aspect of basketball he didn't master if he wanted to.

the only area where i think there is a CLEAR gap in their scoring capabilities is simply mike's shot selection and strategy. maybe you don't want to count that as a capability, but whatever it is, it's the reason why i feel jordan is better as a scorer, although, guess what? Kobe's career isn't done yet, so I'm willing to reevaluate when he's done, there's no telling how he's going to adapt his offensive game to his age in the latter portion of his career.


now call me some silly over the top shit even though my shit was well reasoned and laid out in a clear manner, even if you choose to disagree.

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Fri Jul-24-09 10:04 PM

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415. "See, you stay ruining your posts with bad points. LOL"
In response to Reply # 408


  

          



>2) this post has been chock full of jordan AND kobe fans who
>have over and understated the other to make their weak ass
>points, so i can't speak for no one else but me

Well, you're doing the same shit as they are.


>phil is giving what we are, his OPINION. i didn't read his
>gossipgirl ass book he wrote but among other things he called
>kobe uncoachable didn't he? and HOW long did he NOT coach him
>after that? two years? thanks, just checking. point is, its
>his OPINION and his FEELINGS, not FACT.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

You are a SORRY MOTHERFUCKA

PHIL JACKSON COACHED BOTH OF THEM IN THEIR FUCKING PRIMES,
and DOESN'T EVEN FUCK WITH KOBE BRYANT LIKE HE DID JORDAN
ON A PERSONAL LEVEL.

If Phil had said "Jordan was far, far, better" y'all fuckers
would have GLADLY TAKEN THAT SHIT AND RAN WITH IT.

Just because he GIVES THE ANALYSIS THAT YOU FUCKING FAGGOTS
DON'T LIKE, NOW YOU Wanna gimme this "Its just an opinion,
not unlike anyone else's on this site"

GTFOHWTFBS!!!!!!!!!!!

Its PHIL JACKSON, mothafucka!!!

TAKE your fucking L and keep it MOVING

He gave a NUANCED comparison and said KOBE IS THE BETTER
SHOOTER AND IS MORE SKILLED OFFENSIVELY

He didn't say KOBE WAS BETTER OVERALL

But he was CLEAR ABOUT WHAT HE DID MEAN

Y'all are WRONG, so CRY

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
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AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


>and again, not putting too much into phil's words, but he
>plays mad psychological games with cats. to try and take
>everything he says for face value would be a mistake, EITHER
>WAY.


I'll take plea cops for 100, Alex


>what y'all need to realize is that, this shit isn't a
>compromise, where ANYONE has to CONCEDE anything. you argue
>your point on why you think kobe's better at this that and the
>other, I do mine. I don't "give up" points to get you to do
>the same, if you wanna concede shit, fine. but if i can argue
>my points in a logical fashion, that's all i have to do, you
>don't set the rules of this shit.


No, you lost.

Y'all in here trying to use kobeisoverrated.com and irrelevant
PER stats to argue Jordan's SCORING superiority when the the
coach with the MOST NBA TITLES IN HISTORY JUST FUCKING TOLD US
WHO IS THE BETTER SHOOTER AND MORE SKILLED

L for you.

L
L
L




----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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DaHumanA8stract
Charter member
880 posts
Sat Jul-25-09 12:02 AM

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419. "since you're so quick to take Phil's comments literally...."
In response to Reply # 415
Sat Jul-25-09 12:20 AM by DaHumanA8stract

          

lets see what he REALLY said.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_WNTx3gG_s

INTERVIEWER 1: now phil, i understand that you agree with michael thompson when michael screams to everybody that kobe has better basketball skills than michael jordan. do you agree with that?

PHIL: um.....(clears throat)...he..uh...he does..uh. ***********NOTICE THE WAY HE SAYS THIS. DOES HE SOUND LIKE HE'S SAYING THIS WITH CONFIDENCE OR WHAT?**********

PHIL: um...i think that he has overall
*****WHAT THOUGHT IS HE TRYING TO FINISH HERE. HE DOESN'T EVEN FINISH HIS THOUGHT! LISTEN CLOSE******

PHIL: ...there are some things that michael jordan had that kobe doesnt have. he has a bigger body. he's stronger. kobe's strong..um...(mike) had these incredible hands..and those hands were ya know..million dollar hands uh..... where he can do so many things with it..um... besides being fouled and still make baskets and taking the ball to the basket and getting hit and not losing control of the basketball. being able to pick the ball up off the dribble.uh...those are things that are...ya know.. are just physically irreplaceable and...and thats... that's the one thing i think. i think kobe's outside shooting is perhaps better than michael's
*********OK. THIS IS WHAT YOU ARE BASING YOUR WHOLE ARGUMENT. ON THIS ONE SENTENCE. LET'S LOOK AT IT. HOW DOES WEBSTER'S DICTIONARY DEFINE THE WORD 'PERHAPS'. HMM..LET'S SEE.

perhaps ||
adverb
used to express uncertainty or possibility : perhaps I should have been frank with him.
• used when one does not wish to be too definite or assertive in the expression of an opinion : perhaps not surprisingly, he was cautious about committing himself.
• used when making a polite request, offer, or suggestion : would you perhaps consent to act as our guide?
• used to express reluctant or qualified agreement or acceptance : “She understood him better than his wife ever did.” “Perhaps so, but …”

DOES THAT SOUND DEFINITE TO YOU? LETS CONTINUE***********

PHIL: ....michael's interior game was probably...par none.
******'PROBABLY'. HOW IS THAT DEFINED IN THE DICTIONARY.

probably |ˈpräbəblē; ˈpräblē|
adverb
almost certainly; as far as one knows or can tell : she would probably never see him again | “Would you recognize them?” “Probably.”


OK. ALMOST CERTAINLY. STILL NOT DEFINITE. BUT THEN HE SOUNDS CONVINCED IN HIS NEXT SENTENCE*************

PHIL: there's nobody who's ever been a better inside player at his level in this game. and that's including oscar who was very good down in the low post too.
****HE SOUNDS CONFIDENT IN THAT SENTENCE, NO? NOW IF HE SAID "there's no better shooter than kobe bryant" THEN YOU HAVE A CASE. DID HE SAY THAT?****

PHIL: so......those are things....the thing about michael is that....michael would go on...he would go on a scoring a tear...he would go on like..a retribution night....ya know..where "i gotta go after their leading scorer tonight because he and i are matched up and i need to take him down a notch to hurt this team" type of thing. he wouldnt do the kind of 50 point game sequence that kobe did last year. ********PROPS TO KOBE. THAT WAS VERY DIFFICULT THING TO DO NO DOUBT.*******

PHIL: where he just.....ya know..obliterated the record books. and just went out and....ya know....had a hot tear where he just tore up the league.....for....i dunno what.......10 games in a row with over 50 points. how many was it?

INTERVIEWER 1: well i think he had the 4 straight over 50 and then had 9 in row with 40 or more points.

INTERVIEWER 2: he was berzerk

PHIL: it was bizarre...i mean those things...ya know.....were there....but.....ya know when you look at it... michael shot....ya know......michael shot 49-50 percent. he was.....ya know.....kobe hasn't been able to do that. so...there's a big difference, michael..when you compare those two....but.....uh...the shooting percentages were quite a bit different.
********** "QUITE A BIT"...WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/quite+a+bit

quite a bit, a fairly large amount: There's quite a bit of snow on the ground.

AND HERE YOU REFUSE TO EVEN ACKNOWLEDGE THIS QUOTE. APPARENTLY THIS MEANS NOTHING TO YOU WHEN COMPARING THE TWO. SURE HE ACKNOWLEDGES THAT KOBE IS "PERHAPS" A BETTER LONG RANGE SHOOTER, BUT HE SAID THAT WITH A WIMPER. IF CONTEXT IS EVERYTHING YOU CLEARLY HAVE PROBLEMS READING PEOPLE. IF PHIL TOLD YOU 2+2 WERE "PERHAPS" 5, I FEEL BAD FOR YOU.*********

"iamrecogninzingthatthevoi
ceinsidemyheadisurgingm
etobemyselfandneverfollow
someoneelse..." - Q-Tip

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Sat Jul-25-09 12:15 AM

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420. "LB!!! GET IN HERE!!!! NIGGAS ARE CONCEDING DEFEAT!!!!!"
In response to Reply # 419


  

          


WE GOT NIGGAS TRANSCRIBING AND ANNOTATING THE ENTIRE
TRANSCRIPT!!!!

WE GOT NIGGAS in here debating use of the term "perhaps"

FIRSTLY these niggas said "Phil's quotes were just
opinions"....now they're TRYING TO QUESTION THE
SINCERITY OF HIS REMARKS

WOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOW


We completely merked these niggas up and down this post


BWHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
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HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH

>lets see what he REALLY said.
>
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_WNTx3gG_s
>
>INTERVIEWER 1: now phil, i understand that you agree with
>michael thompson when michael screams to everybody that kobe
>has better basketball skills than michael jordan. do you agree
>with that?
>
>PHIL: um.....(clears throat)...he..uh...he does..uh.
>***********NOTICE THE WAY HE SAYS THIS. DOES HE SOUND LIKE
>HE'S SAYING THIS WITH CONFIDENCE OR WHAT?**********


LMAO!!!!!!

DID HE FUCKING SAY KOBE HAS BETTER SKILLS OR NOT????

YES Or MOTHERFUCKING NO???


LMFAO @ you FAGS trying to JUDGE PAUSES AND GASPS

He fucking said KOBE DOES

END OF FUCKING STORY


>PHIL: um...i think that he has overall
>*****WHAT THOUGHT IS HE TRYING TO FINISH HERE. HE DOESN'T EVEN
>FINISH HIS THOUGHT! LISTEN CLOSE******


>PHIL: ...there are some things that michael jordan had that
>kobe doesnt have. he has a bigger body. he's stronger. kobe's
>strong..um...(mike) had these incredible hands..and those
>hands were ya know..million dollar hands uh..... where he can
>do so many things with it..um... besides being fouled and
>still make baskets and taking the ball to the basket and
>getting hit and not losing control of the basketball. being
>able to pick the ball up off the dribble.uh...those are things
>that are...ya know.. are just physically irreplaceable
>and...and thats... that's the one thing i think. i think
>kobe's outside shooting is perhaps better than michael's
>*********OK. THIS IS WHAT YOU ARE BASING YOUR WHOLE ARGUMENT.
>ON THIS ONE SENTENCE. LET'S LOOK AT IT. HOW DOES WEBSTER'S
>DICTIONARY DEFINE THE WORD 'PERHAPS'. HMM..LET'S SEE.



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HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH

NIGGAS is LOSING!!!




>PHIL: ....michael's interior game was probably...par none.
>******'PROBABLY'. HOW IS THAT DEFINED IN THE DICTIONARY.



>probably |ˈpräbəblē; ˈpräblē|
>adverb
>almost certainly; as far as one knows or can tell : she would
>probably never see him again | “Would you recognize them?”
>“Probably.”
>
>
>OK. ALMOST CERTAINLY. STILL NOT DEFINITE. BUT THEN HE SOUNDS
>CONVINCED IN HIS NEXT SENTENCE*************

So basically Phil doesn't make very many absolute
comments


>PHIL: there's nobody who's ever been a better inside player at
>his level in this game. and that's including oscar who was
>very good down in the low post too.
>****HE SOUNDS CONFIDENT IN THAT SENTENCE, NO?****

LOL

Good thing no one debated Kobe being better on the inside,
dumbass

>PHIL: so......those are things....the thing about michael is
>that....michael would go on...he would go on a scoring a
>tear...he would go on like..a retribution night....ya
>know..where "i gotta go after their leading scorer tonight
>because he and i are matched up and i need to take him down a
>notch to hurt this team" type of thing. he wouldnt do the kind
>of 50 point game sequence that kobe did last year.
>********PROPS TO KOBE. THAT WAS VERY DIFFICULT THING TO DO NO
>DOUBT.*******

Right, because Phil thinks Kobe is more skilled than
Michael Jordan

The fact that you keep pointing out how Phil is giving
Jordan MORE props HELPS OUR ARGUMENT - he has NOOOOOOO
PROBLEM giving Jordan MORE PRAISE than KOBE.

He ONLY GIVES KOBE MORE PRAISE WHERE HE DESERVES IT-

Kobe is more skilled offensively

Kobe is a better shooter


>PHIL: where he just.....ya know..obliterated the record books.
>and just went out and....ya know....had a hot tear where he
>just tore up the league.....for....i dunno what.......10 games
>in a row with over 50 points. how many was it?

Phil, giving Kobe is due for being a disgusting scorer in a
way that Mike was not

Next


>PHIL: it was bizarre...i mean those things...ya know.....were
>there....but.....ya know when you look at it... michael
>shot....ya know......michael shot 49-50 percent. he was.....ya
>know.....kobe hasn't been able to that. so...there's a big
>difference, michael..when you compare those
>two....but.....uh...the shooting percentages were quite a bit
>different.
>********** "QUITE A BIT"...WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?
>http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/quite+a+bit



>quite a bit, a fairly large amount: There's quite a bit of
>snow on the ground.
>
>AND HERE YOU REFUSE TO EVEN ACKNOWLEDGE THIS QUOTE. APPARENTLY
>THIS MEANS NOTHING TO YOU WHEN COMPARING THE TWO. SURE HE
>ACKNOWLEDGES THAT KOBE IS "PERHAPS" A BETTER LONG RANGE
>SHOOTER, BUT HE SAID THAT WITH A WIMPER. IF CONTEXT IS
>EVERYTHING YOU CLEARLY HAVE PROBLEMS READING PEOPLE. IF PHIL
>TOLD YOU 2+2 WERE "PERHAPS" 5, I FEEL BAD FOR YOU.*********

To put how bad you look in perspective, I just made you
transcribe the Phil Jackson quotations, annotate them with
your comment, look up dictionary definitions of words that
we all use every day, and use that to argue...what again?
And in the process you ETHERED YOUR ARGUMENT FURTHER by
showing us in CLEAR LANGUAGE how Phil Jackson CLEARLY thinks
Jordan is the SUPERIOR OVERALL PLAYER because he had MORE NICE
SHIT TO SAY ABOUT JORDAN THAN HE DID KOBE. That being the case,
the shit that HE DID SAY ABOUT KOBE WAS 100% SINCERE

He thinks Kobe is MORE SKILLED

He thinks Kobe is the better shooter




----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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DaHumanA8stract
Charter member
880 posts
Sat Jul-25-09 12:31 AM

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422. "SURE, HOMER. "
In response to Reply # 420


          

http://www.loopytube.com/video/302/Homer-Simpson-Vs-Ray-Patterson-Debate


>
>To put how bad you look in perspective, I just made you
>transcribe the Phil Jackson quotations, annotate them with
>your comment, look up dictionary definitions of words that
>we all use every day, and use that to argue...what again?

YOU GOT THE MOST POSTS IN THIS FORUM!! TALK ABOUT BEIN MAD.


"iamrecogninzingthatthevoi
ceinsidemyheadisurgingm
etobemyselfandneverfollow
someoneelse..." - Q-Tip

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Sat Jul-25-09 12:38 AM

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423. "Fam, you TRANSCRIBED the whole clip. That's an L. "
In response to Reply # 422


  

          


You ANNOTATED the transcrit including PAUSES AND
SIGHS

That's gay

If that ain't a sign of a loser, I don't know what is




----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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Beamer6178
Member since Jan 09th 2006
6379 posts
Sun Jul-26-09 06:07 PM

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450. "typical reaction when ur shit is smacked"
In response to Reply # 420


  

          

bwahahaha and LB hold my hand, we got em!

you supposedly don't even like kobe and you riding his cock like caitlin from colorado

should we have expected anything different from a knicks fan?

  

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LBs Finest
Member since Sep 28th 2005
19846 posts
Sat Jul-25-09 04:36 AM

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425. "this is getting really, really embarrasing for you. wow..."
In response to Reply # 419


  

          

like it's not even funny anymore. it's sad. in my nearly 4 years posting here i dont think i've ever seen pleas this pathetic. i will probably never forget this lol. from now on every time i see you post, im going to instantly remember this thread and how bad you looked.

_________________________

  

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LBs Finest
Member since Sep 28th 2005
19846 posts
Mon Jul-27-09 11:20 PM

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476. "LMAO....i can't stop laughing at this...its so pathetic."
In response to Reply # 419
Mon Jul-27-09 11:22 PM by LBs Finest

  

          

.

_________________________

  

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Beamer6178
Member since Jan 09th 2006
6379 posts
Sun Jul-26-09 06:02 PM

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449. "RE: See, you stay ruining your posts with bad points. LOL"
In response to Reply # 415


  

          

your lack of saying anything at all relevant in response and continuing to ride phil jackson's dick like a pony rings home the point you ain't got shit to say without your bells and whistles and hoots and hollers. u ain't got shit to what i said, and that's fine, i expected nothing more from you


>
>>2) this post has been chock full of jordan AND kobe fans who
>>have over and understated the other to make their weak ass
>>points, so i can't speak for no one else but me
>
>Well, you're doing the same shit as they are.
>
>
>>phil is giving what we are, his OPINION. i didn't read his
>>gossipgirl ass book he wrote but among other things he
>called
>>kobe uncoachable didn't he? and HOW long did he NOT coach
>him
>>after that? two years? thanks, just checking. point is, its
>>his OPINION and his FEELINGS, not FACT.
>
>BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
>AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>
>You are a SORRY MOTHERFUCKA
>
>PHIL JACKSON COACHED BOTH OF THEM IN THEIR FUCKING PRIMES,
>and DOESN'T EVEN FUCK WITH KOBE BRYANT LIKE HE DID JORDAN
>ON A PERSONAL LEVEL.
>
>If Phil had said "Jordan was far, far, better" y'all fuckers
>would have GLADLY TAKEN THAT SHIT AND RAN WITH IT.
>
>Just because he GIVES THE ANALYSIS THAT YOU FUCKING FAGGOTS
>DON'T LIKE, NOW YOU Wanna gimme this "Its just an opinion,
>not unlike anyone else's on this site"
>
>GTFOHWTFBS!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>Its PHIL JACKSON, mothafucka!!!
>
>TAKE your fucking L and keep it MOVING
>
>He gave a NUANCED comparison and said KOBE IS THE BETTER
>SHOOTER AND IS MORE SKILLED OFFENSIVELY
>
>He didn't say KOBE WAS BETTER OVERALL
>
>But he was CLEAR ABOUT WHAT HE DID MEAN
>
>Y'all are WRONG, so CRY
>
>BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
>AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>
>
>>and again, not putting too much into phil's words, but he
>>plays mad psychological games with cats. to try and take
>>everything he says for face value would be a mistake, EITHER
>>WAY.
>
>
>I'll take plea cops for 100, Alex
>
>
>>what y'all need to realize is that, this shit isn't a
>>compromise, where ANYONE has to CONCEDE anything. you argue
>>your point on why you think kobe's better at this that and
>the
>>other, I do mine. I don't "give up" points to get you to do
>>the same, if you wanna concede shit, fine. but if i can
>argue
>>my points in a logical fashion, that's all i have to do, you
>>don't set the rules of this shit.
>
>
>No, you lost.
>
>Y'all in here trying to use kobeisoverrated.com and
>irrelevant
>PER stats to argue Jordan's SCORING superiority when the the
>coach with the MOST NBA TITLES IN HISTORY JUST FUCKING TOLD
>US
>WHO IS THE BETTER SHOOTER AND MORE SKILLED
>
>L for you.
>
>L
>L
>L
>
>
>
>
>----------------------------
>
>http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others
>
>
>O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.
>
>
>"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."
>
>(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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40thStreetBlack
Charter member
27116 posts
Sat Jul-25-09 08:13 PM

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429. "u mean when Phil said Mike would score 45 ppg playing w/ today's rules?"
In response to Reply # 384


          

yup, that should pretty much dead this whole post.

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

  

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LBs Finest
Member since Sep 28th 2005
19846 posts
Sat Jul-25-09 08:25 PM

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430. "that's a prediction"
In response to Reply # 429
Sat Jul-25-09 08:52 PM by LBs Finest

  

          

also called a guess. he wasn't really giving an observation.

what he said last year was his judgment on who held the egde from years of coaching both. there were no "if's".

and tell me with a straight face that if phil gave MJ the edge in both you wouldn't have ran to your computer to post while yelling for this thread to be locked? you and everybody else? lol i mean who are you really trying to fool here?

don't get mad that kobe's skill level is UNMATCHED and phil recognize game. just accept it now and save yourself the future heartache, because when kobe starts stacking up them chips like pringles over the next 3 to 4 years, these type of statements are going to pop up more and more often.

and you gon be mad lmao. and ima be on okp laughing eating pizza rolls, tellin myself i warned him, but he aint listen..

_________________________

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Sun Jul-26-09 11:47 AM

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437. "Yep. These niggas trying REAL REAL hard. REAL hard. "
In response to Reply # 430


  

          


What about:

"Kobe is the better shooter"

"Kobe is more skilled"

do these niggas not understand?

All they have is copping pleas for "probably" and pauses
and sighs

This got reeeeel sad in a hurry

  

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40thStreetBlack
Charter member
27116 posts
Sun Jul-26-09 01:15 PM

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440. "uh huh... and what was this post about again?"
In response to Reply # 437
Sun Jul-26-09 01:19 PM by 40thStreetBlack

          

oh yeah, who's the better scorer. y'all niggas is the ones trying HARD to detour and deflect from that issue, cuz y'all know the answer and you're scared to address it.


>What about:
>
>"Kobe is the better shooter"
>
>"Kobe is more skilled"
>
>do these niggas not understand?


uh, yeah, I already said that.


now what about:

"Mike is the better scorer"

"Mike skill level is higher"


y'all don't want to address that. all y'all got is pleas for "... but, but, but, kobe shoots better from outside! he's got more skills!", spending 450+ posts dancing around that shit & avoiding the bottom line that Mike's the better scorer.

pitiful.

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Sun Jul-26-09 01:20 PM

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441. "*Yawn* You about 250 posts too late with that, dunny"
In response to Reply # 440


  

          


The point is:

Y'all won't admit the most BASIC shit

That's why me and LB laughing so fucking hard

You won't give Kobe ANYTHING

Niggas won't admit his mid range game is CLEARLY
comparable

Niggas wont' admit that he was a better shooter

Niggas won't admit that his skill level was near
that

YOU WAS IN HERE COPPING PLEAS about Phil Jackson's
comments talking about "he's just being nice to
KOBE"

LOL








----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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40thStreetBlack
Charter member
27116 posts
Sun Jul-26-09 02:04 PM

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442. "LOL - you still scared to address the issue of this whole post!"
In response to Reply # 441
Sun Jul-26-09 02:05 PM by 40thStreetBlack

          

>The point is:
>
>Y'all won't admit the most BASIC shit

the most BASIC shit is who's the better scorer, and y'all won't even *address* that point, let alone admit it!


>That's why me and LB laughing so fucking hard
>
>You won't give Kobe ANYTHING
>
>Niggas won't admit his mid range game is CLEARLY
>comparable
>
>Niggas wont' admit that he was a better shooter
>
>Niggas won't admit that his skill level was near
>that

seeing as how this doesn't apply to me I'll just move on to your next diversion.


>YOU WAS IN HERE COPPING PLEAS about Phil Jackson's
>comments talking about "he's just being nice to
>KOBE"
>
>LOL

uh, did you even listen to Phil's comments? he spent the whole time talking about all the things Mike's better at and threw in "Kobe is perhaps a better outside shooter than Michael" & y'all getting gassed just off of that? LOL. And you continue to completely ignore Phil's comment that Mike would score 45 ppg with today's rules, meanwhile LB in here copping pleas about Tex comments, talking about "he just don't like KOBE." But I mean y'all still scared to address the main issue of who's the better scorer, so all the dodges & diversions are to be expected I guess.

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Sun Jul-26-09 02:08 PM

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443. "LOL - I been clear from post number THREE, doggy dogg"
In response to Reply # 442


  

          


#3
Jordan was a bit more explosive.

I'd say Kobe is a bit better in the "all around
scorer" category.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I said what Phil Jackson said.

I don't care who could score 87 points when and where
in what era.

Jordan COULD NOT have averaged 50 points per game
in Wilt's Era. Wilt did. In fact, no one ever could
do what Wilt did in Wilt's era.

Does that make Wilt a better "pure scorer" than Jordan?

Fuck no, it doesn't.

When it comes to all around scoring skills, I'm giving
the slight nod to Kobe Bryant.

I think his better long range shooting, in combination
with his diversity of skills(both supported by Phil
Jackson) make him the better all around scorer


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^GODDAMN



----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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40thStreetBlack
Charter member
27116 posts
Mon Jul-27-09 05:44 PM

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467. "post 357 & subsequent posts obfuscate your point"
In response to Reply # 443


          

>Does that make Wilt a better "pure scorer" than Jordan?

http://www.filtersfast.com/ProdImages/pur-3.jpg


>Fuck no, it doesn't.
>
>When it comes to all around scoring skills, I'm giving
>the slight nod to Kobe Bryant.
>
>I think his better long range shooting, in combination
>with his diversity of skills(both supported by Phil
>Jackson) make him the better all around scorer


question is simply who's the better scorer - not qualifications about diversity of skills or "pureness", simply bottom-line who's the better scorer.

if you think it's Kobe just say so plainly without all the qualifications.

___________________

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LBs Finest
Member since Sep 28th 2005
19846 posts
Sun Jul-26-09 02:49 PM

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445. "??"
In response to Reply # 442


  

          

>the most BASIC shit is who's the better scorer, and y'all
>won't even *address* that point, let alone admit it!

who are you talking about? again, so it sticks this time: he's the most complete offensive weapon in the history of this game, period. therefore, he's the best scorer. it's not complicated. and lol @ me not addressing a point i've been making since 03.

>
>
>>YOU WAS IN HERE COPPING PLEAS about Phil Jackson's
>>comments talking about "he's just being nice to
>>KOBE"
>>
>>LOL
>
>uh, did you even listen to Phil's comments? he spent the whole
>time talking about all the things Mike's better at and threw
>in "Kobe is perhaps a better outside shooter than Michael" &
>y'all getting gassed just off of that? LOL. And you continue
>to completely ignore Phil's comment that Mike would score 45
>ppg with today's rules,

again, you're in here posting quotes that you don't even agree with lol.

meanwhile LB in here copping pleas
>about Tex comments, talking about "he just don't like KOBE."

tex isn't kobe's biggest fan, following the lakers as religiously as i do, i can tell you that.

_________________________

  

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Beamer6178
Member since Jan 09th 2006
6379 posts
Sun Jul-26-09 11:16 PM

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456. "you sound as silly as some of the people you're bashing"
In response to Reply # 445


  

          

>>the most BASIC shit is who's the better scorer, and y'all
>>won't even *address* that point, let alone admit it!
>
>who are you talking about? again, so it sticks this time: he's
>the most complete offensive weapon in the history of this
>game, period. therefore, he's the best scorer. it's not
>complicated. and lol @ me not addressing a point i've been
>making since 03.
an opinion you're entitled to, but i still can't think of "most complete" ANYTHING offensively that can't even make half of all shots taken for even ONE season.


>>
>>>YOU WAS IN HERE COPPING PLEAS about Phil Jackson's
>>>comments talking about "he's just being nice to
>>>KOBE"
>>>
>>>LOL
>>
>>uh, did you even listen to Phil's comments? he spent the
>whole
>>time talking about all the things Mike's better at and threw
>>in "Kobe is perhaps a better outside shooter than Michael" &
>>y'all getting gassed just off of that? LOL. And you continue
>>to completely ignore Phil's comment that Mike would score 45
>>ppg with today's rules,
>
>again, you're in here posting quotes that you don't even agree
>with lol.
but it's something Phil said. which is why i said leave phil's name out the shit, his words are his words, he's talked out of both sides of his mouth before, picking and choosing when it's gospel is self serving and transparent.


>meanwhile LB in here copping pleas
>>about Tex comments, talking about "he just don't like KOBE."
>
>
>tex isn't kobe's biggest fan, following the lakers as
>religiously as i do, i can tell you that.
and this makes you look full of shit, since you and hoey are in here talking about phil's positive comments as ironclad despite him not being the biggest kobe fan, yet tex winter's comments that put MJ over him aren't? bottom line is, either one could say whatever the hell they want to say, motivated by whatever. but you're not in their head so FOH with deciphering who's being honest and who's not.

  

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LBs Finest
Member since Sep 28th 2005
19846 posts
Mon Jul-27-09 08:14 AM

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460. "RE: you sound as silly as some of the people you're bashing"
In response to Reply # 456


  

          

>
>>meanwhile LB in here copping pleas
>>>about Tex comments, talking about "he just don't like
>KOBE."
>>
>>
>>tex isn't kobe's biggest fan, following the lakers as
>>religiously as i do, i can tell you that.
>and this makes you look full of shit, since you and hoey are
>in here talking about phil's positive comments as ironclad
>despite him not being the biggest kobe fan

i dont know where you're getting that phil's not a big kobe fan, him and kobe's relationship is MUCH better than kobe and tex's.

yet tex winter's
>comments that put MJ over him aren't?

he didn't commit one way or another.

bottom line is, either
>one could say whatever the hell they want to say, motivated by
>whatever. but you're not in their head so FOH with deciphering
>who's being honest and who's not.

now see, this is my point. the only reason you suspect that phil doesn't really believe his own words, that he's in essence lying, is just because his assessment is one you don't agree with. lol. you don't see how dumb that logic is? these were his own words from his own mouth, this wasn't someone else's interpretation of what he said. if he had said MJ was the better shooter not a single person would suggest that he didn't really feel that way.

and obviously it's an opinion, thanks so much for pointing that out! but there's no denying that he's better prepared to discuss and compare these two than any of us. it's foolish to think his take on them is just like anybody else's.

_________________________

  

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Beamer6178
Member since Jan 09th 2006
6379 posts
Mon Jul-27-09 09:16 AM

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463. "RE: you sound as silly as some of the people you're bashing"
In response to Reply # 460


  

          

>>>tex isn't kobe's biggest fan, following the lakers as
>>>religiously as i do, i can tell you that.
>>and this makes you look full of shit, since you and hoey are
>>in here talking about phil's positive comments as ironclad
>>despite him not being the biggest kobe fan
>
>i dont know where you're getting that phil's not a big kobe
>fan, him and kobe's relationship is MUCH better than kobe and
>tex's.
i'm only taking it from the arguments that if phil gives any compliments to kobe it has to be truthful, either you or someone else definitely expressed that sentiment.


>yet tex winter's
>>comments that put MJ over him aren't?
>
>he didn't commit one way or another.
so by his assessment, whether kobe was a better shooter than michael is ARGUABLE, not CLEARLY the case, as others have stated.


>bottom line is, either
>>one could say whatever the hell they want to say, motivated
>by
>>whatever. but you're not in their head so FOH with
>deciphering
>>who's being honest and who's not.
>
>now see, this is my point. the only reason you suspect that
>phil doesn't really believe his own words, that he's in
>essence lying, is just because his assessment is one you don't
>agree with. lol.
i NEVER said phil doesn't believe his own words, all i've said and will continue to say is that blindly using phil jacksons words as the sole point in one's argument is silly, and a waste. if that were the case, the title could be "what did feeel really mean by these comments" then we could go round and round deciphering and dissecting and overanalyzing them. i don't care if his assessment supported nor detracted from mine. i don't even have an issue with someone using it as a factor for why they think kobe is a better scorer, but to rely solely on it i think is fallacious.

you don't see how dumb that logic is? these
>were his own words from his own mouth, this wasn't someone
>else's interpretation of what he said. if he had said MJ was
>the better shooter not a single person would suggest that he
>didn't really feel that way.
had he said MJ the better shooter, would you have gone quietly into the night or would you stand behind your assessment?

>and obviously it's an opinion, thanks so much for pointing
>that out!
well you mugfucks seem to think that his opinion is GAME SET MATCH. so the reminder is often needed

>but there's no denying that he's better prepared to
>discuss and compare these two than any of us.
and tex winter isn't as well?

>it's foolish to
>think his take on them is just like anybody else's.
he obviously got to see them more intimately than we did, but it's not as if what phil said was something above and beyond or significantly different from what has been said in this thread. he didn't point out or name anything that some of us haven't mentioned.

  

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40thStreetBlack
Charter member
27116 posts
Mon Jul-27-09 06:27 PM

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470. "sorry, I was mostly referring to O_E with that"
In response to Reply # 445


          

>who are you talking about? again, so it sticks this time: he's
>the most complete offensive weapon in the history of this
>game, period. therefore, he's the best scorer. it's not
>complicated.

LOL - you so caught up in this "complete" argument that you've lost all perspective, and yeah it's not complicated: Hakeem is the most "complete" offensive weapon at the 5 the game has ever seen - does that mean he's the best scorer out of all the centers in the history of the game? FUCK NO!

complete ≢ best

NOPE!

sorry.


>>uh, did you even listen to Phil's comments? he spent the
>whole
>>time talking about all the things Mike's better at and threw
>>in "Kobe is perhaps a better outside shooter than Michael" &
>>y'all getting gassed just off of that? LOL. And you continue
>>to completely ignore Phil's comment that Mike would score 45
>>ppg with today's rules,
>
>again, you're in here posting quotes that you don't even agree
>with lol.

because again you're in here standing by one phil quote as gospel but ignoring any other quote he's made you don't agree with lol.

and you're still in here posting on players skills who you weren't even around to see at the peak of their skills lol.

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

  

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40thStreetBlack
Charter member
27116 posts
Sun Jul-26-09 11:51 AM

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438. "it's an assessment."
In response to Reply # 430


          

>and tell me with a straight face that if phil gave MJ the edge
>in both you wouldn't have ran to your computer to post while
>yelling for this thread to be locked? lol i mean who are you
>really trying to fool here?

I'm not the one who ran to their computer to post feel's opinion while yelling for the thread to be locked - that was you. Unlike you I don't need to rely on phil's statements since I saw both of them at the peak of their skills. I mean you weren't even BORN when MJ came into the league and you're up in here trying to tell me you know better - FOH. And you trying to take phil's statement as gospel but then downplaying phil's other statements that don't support your position + entirely dismissing tex's judgment from years of coaching them both. I mean who are *you* really trying to fool here?


>don't get mad that kobe's skill level is UNMATCHED and phil
>recognize game. just accept it now and save yourself the

LOL - phil ain't said kobe skill *level* is higher; in fact phil spent that whole statement saying all the ways Mike was better than Kobe and then throwing in "Kobe's outside shooting is *perhaps* better than Michaels." But he said Mike's inside game is absolutely UNMATCHED in the history of the game - "Michael's interior game was probably par none. There's NOBODY that's ever been a better inside player at his level in this game." I aint' hear than nigga say willie outside shooting is dominate to that level. And phil TALKED ABOUT IT with shooting percentages & Mike shooting 50% and saying Kobe's been unable to do that - I know you was MAD AS FUCK when he said that! LMAO!

I mean if phil actually believed kobe skill level is higher than mike, why he think mike would average 45 in today's NBA? phil knows mike the better scorer, yet you still want to believe kobe the better scorer? LOL

>future heartache, because when kobe starts stacking up them
>chips like pringles over the next 3 to 4 years, these type of
>statements are going to pop up more and more often.
>
>and you gon be mad lmao. and ima be on okp laughing eating
>pizza rolls, tellin myself i warned him, but he aint listen..

LOL - that'll only happen on laker fan boards and posts you make on okp, cuz the rest of the civilized world knows kobe aint' seeing mike. only heartache is gonna be on your part, cuz your entire EXISTANCE is dedicated to kobe and you gonna be HURT when wille retire with less rings than mike, less MVPs than mike, less scoring titles than mike, lesser scoring average w/ a worst shooting % than mike, less hair than mike, and less white women on the side than mike.

you gonna be mad lmao.

http://users.chariot.net.au/~byoung/jordan/jordan37.jpg <--- and ima be on okp eating bbq chips with cheez whiz smiling like this



http://fourhorsementattoo.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/kobe-crying.jpg <--- and you gonna be sad at life crying like this

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
26425 posts
Mon Jul-27-09 06:48 PM

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472. "cmon, that's got to be the worst trickonomics type of plea evah"
In response to Reply # 430


  

          

he coached MJ. he knows what MJ could do and what the rules changes meant.

Phil either knows ball and can be used as a source or can't. you can't have it both ways.

Phil thinks MJ could etherize Bean's best year if he played in the post-rule change league while in his prime. it is what it is.

-----------
mas que un club

08-09 Survivor Champion.

"I mean, I can pigeonhole people because I'm close-minded. But I'm special and different." (c) Walleye

  

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LBs Finest
Member since Sep 28th 2005
19846 posts
Mon Jul-27-09 07:03 PM

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475. "im done arguing with you, its clear as day you dont actually watch bball"
In response to Reply # 472


  

          

i just wish you hadn't left out that important piece of information during the beginning stages of this thread, i coulda saved myself a ton of keystrokes.

_________________________

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
26425 posts
Mon Jul-27-09 11:40 PM

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478. "the fuck did that shit have to do with any damn thing i wrote?"
In response to Reply # 475


  

          

answer: nothing.

you can't support phil as the end-all of a debate and then claim that he was just "speculating" when he said something that goes against your view.

well, you can, but it's just dumb as shit.

then again, so was your last response...so....

go watch another jordan tape and claim you know his game better than anyone who saw him when he actually played.

-----------
mas que un club

08-09 Survivor Champion.

"I mean, I can pigeonhole people because I'm close-minded. But I'm special and different." (c) Walleye

  

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LBs Finest
Member since Sep 28th 2005
19846 posts
Tue Jul-28-09 03:39 AM

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482. "well we know you're no english major lol"
In response to Reply # 478
Tue Jul-28-09 03:44 AM by LBs Finest

  

          

he was speculating bro.

hopefully this helps:

spec·u·late -
Pronunciation:
\ˈspe-kyə-ˌlāt\
Function:
verb
Inflected Form(s):
spec·u·lat·ed; spec·u·lat·ing
transitive verb

1: to review something idly or casually and often inconclusively
2: to take to be true on the basis of insufficient evidence : theorize (synonym)
3: to be curious or doubtful about

>go watch another jordan tape and claim you know his game
>better than anyone who saw him when he actually played.

im 23 not 16. i've been watching him since i was 8 or 9 years old.

_________________________

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
26425 posts
Tue Jul-28-09 02:09 PM

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507. "oh jesus, your analytic skills need sharpening"
In response to Reply # 482


  

          

don't start trying to out-intellectualize me...especially on linguistics, son. please don't make that mistake.

speculation is based on combining one's knowledge of the evidence and one's opinion.

comparing two players' abilities is also a combination of one's knowledge of the evidence and one's opinion.

let's try this logic one last time:

IF Phil is a reliable source on basketball knowledge and opinion about players he coached THEN he is always a reliable source on it.

(so far so good?)

When Phil compares players, he is making a subjective judgement of their capabilities.

(still ok? or was Phil using some objective measure of "skill" that no one else knows?)

When Phil is speculating, he is making a subjective judgement of a player's abilities and changes in the game.

Phil, as a reliable source on basketball, is a reasonable expert figure on player skill, player ability, and the effect of rules changes.

AS SUCH AN EXPERT, his speculation--as he did coach both of them--is a powerful statement on how good of a scorer MJ was. So good, that he'd average 10 PPG more than Bean has ever reached.

let's give a second, easier example. Let's say I'm an expert in leadership and American presidents. A James MacGregor Burns, perhaps.

George W. Bush was a bad president.

(my assessment)

Bill Clinton was a good president

(my assessment)

Bill Clinton was a better president than GWB

(my assessment as an expert. no counterfactual is possible, because "better" is subjective).

in your mind, that's an ok statement for someone to make.

BUT THIS IS NOT:

Bill Clinton would have had a better response to 9/11 than GWB's false "global war on terror"

(speculation. there is no counterfactual, because we do not know what Clinton would have actually done in that situation)

To me, the idea that the first claim comparing them is more valid than the other is entirely laughable. In fact, the second claim is much more engaging as it makes a specific and potentially debatable claim. One is left wondering "how do i describe a "better presidency"?" in the first situation and in the second situation can say "a ha! I have an actual outcome to consider and address! We can build from this."

nonetheless, 40thstreet ethered this as not only does that "he'd average 45 ppg" show that Phil knows MJ as a scorer shits on Bean as a scorer, but Phil also notes that MJ is simple UNPARALLELED (that is, has no equal) in terms of his inside game.

so while kobe's "more skilled", MJ's ability was simply unmatched.

Phil's comments on the two are ambiguous at best--one is more skilled, but one would score more if they played in the same league--and directly contradictory at worst (not that he has a duty to be consistent).

that you think there's any way to claim one is a more reliable "proof" in this stupid fucking debate is a stupid fucking idea.

-----------
mas que un club

08-09 Survivor Champion.

"I mean, I can pigeonhole people because I'm close-minded. But I'm special and different." (c) Walleye

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Tue Jul-28-09 02:48 PM

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512. "LOL @ your low self esteem. LOL. "
In response to Reply # 507


  

          



Look at how astonishing an L y'all are taking, trying
to come in here and lecture about life and the
definition of "perhaps" and the anatomy of "speculation"
vs "comparison"

You ain't smart, nigga

>don't start trying to out-intellectualize me...especially on
>linguistics, son. please don't make that mistake.

LOL - you don't shit about linguistics or statistics or
reasoning for that matter. You are probably the sloppiest
thinker in here, other than the one dude from Costa
Rica who doesn't know how far the NBA 3 point line is.

I mean, you tried to argue that the purity of a scorer
involves whether or not their style leads to injury, or
not, unless they are 6'9 250 lbs, in which case any style
is fine. .

^That's probably the least analytical, flawed, asinine
stupid ass thing said in this entire post, and you know
it, Mr. Analytical Linguistics

LOL

Don't throw rocks from a glass house.


>let's give a second, easier example. Let's say I'm an expert
>in leadership and American presidents. A James MacGregor
>Burns, perhaps.

Nice way to name drop. Does that make you
feel smart?

(and its actually James M. Burns, and there are
dozens of modern historians who analyze modern presidents
far better....LOL @ you citing some shit you read in 10th
grade.)



Oh, and Kobe still a better scorer.


>George W. Bush was a bad president.
>
>(my assessment)
>
>Bill Clinton was a good president
>
>(my assessment)
>
>Bill Clinton was a better president than GWB
>
>(my assessment as an expert. no counterfactual is possible,
>because "better" is subjective).

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ


And Kobe still a better shooter and all around scorer


Seriously, this is gay.


Nice attempt at rescuing your self esteem, though


>in your mind, that's an ok statement for someone to make.
>
>BUT THIS IS NOT:
>
>Bill Clinton would have had a better response to 9/11 than
>GWB's false "global war on terror"

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ


>(speculation. there is no counterfactual, because we do not
>know what Clinton would have actually done in that situation)

That was the stupidest thing I've ever heard in my life

Its not relevant here. Log off, fam.

>To me, the idea that the first claim comparing them is more
>valid than the other is entirely laughable. In fact, the
>second claim is much more engaging as it makes a specific and
>potentially debatable claim. One is left wondering "how do i
>describe a "better presidency"?" in the first situation and in
>the second situation can say "a ha! I have an actual outcome
>to consider and address! We can build from this."

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ


>nonetheless, 40thstreet ethered this as not only does that
>"he'd average 45 ppg" show that Phil knows MJ as a scorer
>shits on Bean as a scorer, but Phil also notes that MJ is
>simple UNPARALLELED (that is, has no equal) in terms of his
>inside game.
>
>so while kobe's "more skilled", MJ's ability was simply
>unmatched.
>
>Phil's comments on the two are ambiguous at best--one is more
>skilled, but one would score more if they played in the same
>league--and directly contradictory at worst (not that he has a
>duty to be consistent).
>
>that you think there's any way to claim one is a more reliable
>"proof" in this stupid fucking debate is a stupid fucking
>idea.

LOL - all that bullshit is a way to rescue your personal
self esteem all while making the rudimentary plea cop
that Phil Jackson's word is not bond, because he's not
jesus

Just fucking say: "Phil Jackson's word is not bond."

All that other shit is irrelevant and misplaced, and you
look like an idiot force-feeding a lecture on counterfactuals
and speculation.


I'm just being honest.

Take the L.

It builds character







----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
26425 posts
Wed Jul-29-09 07:23 PM

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525. "so many Ls, so little time"
In response to Reply # 512


  

          

>Look at how astonishing an L y'all are taking, trying
>to come in here and lecture about life and the
>definition of "perhaps" and the anatomy of "speculation"
>vs "comparison"

dawg, i wasn't the one who copped a plea about "speculation" that was your boy. you shoulda stayed out of this one.

>LOL - you don't shit about linguistics or statistics or
>reasoning for that matter. You are probably the sloppiest
>thinker in here, other than the one dude from Costa
>Rica who doesn't know how far the NBA 3 point line is.

actually, as a published sociologist and an award-winning (it's true! lol) TA for stats at an ivy league, my credentials speak for themselves.

>I mean, you tried to argue that the purity of a scorer
>involves whether or not their style leads to injury, or
>not, unless they are 6'9 250 lbs, in which case any style
>is fine. .

^still mad about a completely separate point in this thread.

>^That's probably the least analytical, flawed, asinine
>stupid ass thing said in this entire post, and you know
>it, Mr. Analytical Linguistics

*stares dumbfounded at this when LB claimed you can listen to Phil in one case, but not the other*

>Nice way to name drop. Does that make you
>feel smart?

no. does it make you mad?

>(and its actually James M. Burns, and there are
>dozens of modern historians who analyze modern presidents
>far better....LOL @ you citing some shit you read in 10th
>grade.)

actually, dipshit, that M. is for MacGregor. And when he was a professor at my alma mater and he got introduced while giving a lecture, everybody and their momma called him James MacGregor Burns. I picked him because he was a real cool dude.

I mean shit, even wikipedia calls him that: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_MacGregor_Burns

lmao.

goddam.

like wow, LMAO.

this shit here. I hope people see this L here.

>ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

^knows he can't actually deal with the logic, but still wants to be mad.

>LOL - all that bullshit is a way to rescue your personal
>self esteem all while making the rudimentary plea cop
>that Phil Jackson's word is not bond, because he's not
>jesus

no, it's that IF Phil's word is bond, then Jordan's better. If it isn't, then his quote comparing the two doesn't mean shit.

>Just fucking say: "Phil Jackson's word is not bond."

I don't really care, because either way, Phil's not supporting the claim LB makes.

>It builds character

so then how much character have you built in this thread alone? I've lost track.

-----------
mas que un club

08-09 Survivor Champion.

"I mean, I can pigeonhole people because I'm close-minded. But I'm special and different." (c) Walleye

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Thu Jul-30-09 01:36 AM

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528. "LMMFAO!!!! ^^^Another O_E madmaking masterpiece, folks"
In response to Reply # 525


  

          


Haha

This might be the largest display of low
self-esteem I've ever seen on this board,
and that's saying quite a bit.

I mean, you are resume dropping in a post about Kobe
Bryant's scoring ability?

(and with pure hilarity, you're actually out-gunned
in regards to life credentials too. Thankfully, my
self esteem isn't that low, so I don't have to mention
it in the middle of an L on Kobe Bryant, largely because
OE's post reputation should be defined by his posting
ability, and his life reputation, which is better than
yours, should be defined by his life ability. Your posting
sucks, so you're running behind your life credentaisl)

Seriously - you sound like Bobby Jindahl - an idiot
who can't reason properly who hides behind good credentials,
largely because he's actually an idiot.

You're resume doesn't actually mean shit if you're actually
an idiot, tough guy.

Notice how O_E doesn't need to do what you do.

>actually, as a published sociologist and an award-winning
>(it's true! lol) TA for stats at an ivy league, my credentials
>speak for themselves.


Isn't it a shame, then, that you can't reason properly?


Resume dropping in a post about Kobe is an automatic L,
doggie.



(and I'm not going to play the real-life game, because
you'll lose that one relative to O_E...trust me. I'll just
play the post game, where I'm also better than you)



>actually, dipshit, that M. is for MacGregor. And when he was a
>professor at my alma mater and he got introduced while giving
>a lecture, everybody and their momma called him James
>MacGregor Burns. I picked him because he was a real cool dude.

LOL

LOL

LOL

LOL

LOL - you didn't say that. You said "James MacGregor." Nobody
calls him by his first two names, and unlike you, I actually
read his work. You just know who he is by reputation alone,
and so you name dropped him in an completely irrelevant
context in a failed attempt to raise YOUR self esteem in the
midst of an embarrassing loss



>no, it's that IF Phil's word is bond, then Jordan's better. If
>it isn't, then his quote comparing the two doesn't mean shit.

LOL - see what you did?

Hmm. So what about counterfactuals?

You just reduced all the bullshit you posted into a two
sentences.

You're still wrong, but see how you were able to make
the point without "counterfactuals" and all that other
bullshit?

LOL - 90% of that post was written, again, to raise your
self esteem. Didn't do anything to the argument at hand,
which LB and I have clearly won here.



>I don't really care, because either way, Phil's not supporting
>the claim LB makes.

Yes, he is. Cry.


Seriously, though - dropping a life resume in a basketball
post is pure hilarity


  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
26425 posts
Thu Jul-30-09 07:32 AM

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529. "epic fail, folks, get your epic fail here"
In response to Reply # 528
Thu Jul-30-09 07:33 AM by thejerseytornado

  

          

let's just focus on that
>LOL - you didn't say that. You said "James MacGregor." Nobody

actually, I didn't fuck up like that. I called him James MacGregor Burns. so you're entire desire to shit-talk about that, like your entire desire to talk shit to me in this post, has been based on shittastic reading of my posts.

>Hmm. So what about counterfactuals?

actually, that part had nothing to do with counterfactuals.

>Seriously, though - dropping a life resume in a basketball
>post is pure hilarity

that wasn't a resume. that was one line to prove that your claim that i know nothing about stats was as incorrect as your idiotic "diversity of scoring" idea. but way to try to claim a W out of an L. You have a real unique talent for that.

-----------
mas que un club

08-09 Survivor Champion.

"I mean, I can pigeonhole people because I'm close-minded. But I'm special and different." (c) Walleye

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Thu Jul-30-09 09:05 AM

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532. "LOL. Hey - so what's that about your resume?"
In response to Reply # 529


  

          



Where can I find a reference for your being a sore loser?

Is that the same, or different reference for your:

"Field goal percentage is important for determining a good
scorer as long as the scoring style doesn't lead to injury,
unless you are Lebron James' size or larger?"


BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


And my bad on not seeing you mention James Magregor
Burns' full name. My bad.

^you see how smart people admit they're wrong?

I mean, it helps that I'm doing it in the midst of mercking
half this board in a diamond post, but I still did it


Thing is, you still haven't read any of his books(I have)
and you still only mentioned him.....why again? LOL. LOL.

You came in here wielding your resume in a Kobe post, doggie.

And you barked at a dog bigger and badder than you, both in
post terms, and in life terms.

I don't know you in life, but your post game is bad, and
all I can tell from your life game is that you're insecure.

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
26425 posts
Thu Jul-30-09 11:40 AM

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539. "this is the third time you've put something in quotes I didn't say"
In response to Reply # 532


  

          

>"Field goal percentage is important for determining a good
>scorer as long as the scoring style doesn't lead to injury,
>unless you are Lebron James' size or larger?"


dishonesty isn't a good look.

-----------
mas que un club

08-09 Survivor Champion.

"I mean, I can pigeonhole people because I'm close-minded. But I'm special and different." (c) Walleye

  

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LBs Finest
Member since Sep 28th 2005
19846 posts
Wed Jul-29-09 05:12 PM

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522. "he was speculating."
In response to Reply # 507


  

          

_________________________

  

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40thStreetBlack
Charter member
27116 posts
Sat Jul-25-09 08:37 PM

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431. "cmon."
In response to Reply # 378


          

>but since he didn't they panicked and had to cop the "oh he
>just being loyal to kobe" plea, lmao. loyalty to kobe over
>mike? he wouldn't be anywhere close to Red's championship
>record if it wasn't for mike, he owes cheese everything. i
>think the only way he would ever give kobe or any other player
>of his the edge over mike in anything is if it were clearly
>true.

Mike ain't play for Phil for over a decade, Kobe still winning Phil chips.

I mean cmon.

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

  

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LBs Finest
Member since Sep 28th 2005
19846 posts
Sat Jul-25-09 08:51 PM

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433. "really?"
In response to Reply # 431


  

          

>>but since he didn't they panicked and had to cop the "oh he
>>just being loyal to kobe" plea, lmao. loyalty to kobe over
>>mike? he wouldn't be anywhere close to Red's championship
>>record if it wasn't for mike, he owes cheese everything. i
>>think the only way he would ever give kobe or any other
>player
>>of his the edge over mike in anything is if it were clearly
>>true.
>
>Mike ain't play for Phil for over a decade, Kobe still winning
>Phil chips.
>
>I mean cmon.
>
>

"I think it's the best that I've ever seen a player of mine play with an overall court game. I'm asking him to do so much, and he's accomplishing it."

^^Phil, back in 2001, 8 years ago. and he aint talking about ron harper.

_________________________

  

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40thStreetBlack
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439. "so?"
In response to Reply # 433
Sun Jul-26-09 12:07 PM by 40thStreetBlack

          

>^^Phil, back in 2001, 8 years ago. and he aint talking about
>ron harper.

2001 = 3 years after mike was done winning rings for phil & in the middle of kobe helping shaq win 3 rings for phil.

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

  

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El_essence
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477. "I remember that quote"
In response to Reply # 433


  

          

>"I think it's the best that I've ever seen a player of mine
>play with an overall court game. I'm asking him to do so much,
>and he's accomplishing it."
>
>^^Phil, back in 2001, 8 years ago. and he aint talking about
>ron harper.

independent of this post, I think something that is never really discussed is how Kobe has actually played Scottie and MJ's role in the tri for most of his career.

  

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LBs Finest
Member since Sep 28th 2005
19846 posts
Tue Jul-28-09 03:16 AM

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481. "lol and you definitely took an L here"
In response to Reply # 477


  

          

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=8&topic_id=942801&mesg_id=942801&page=9#943025

doubting the black mamba...for shame. just cause MJ couldn't do it doesn't mean kobe can't.

_________________________

  

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El_essence
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505. "yeah that's an L I'm happy to take though. he proved me wrong"
In response to Reply # 481
Tue Jul-28-09 11:59 AM by El_essence

  

          

has there been another non pg who was the primary scorer and the primary playmaker to win a chip?

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
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Tue Jul-28-09 02:13 PM

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508. "Jordan, Pierce, LeBron"
In response to Reply # 505


  

          

(jokes with Lebron, but the need for a PG to be primary playmaker, etc. is way overhyped)

-----------
mas que un club

08-09 Survivor Champion.

"I mean, I can pigeonhole people because I'm close-minded. But I'm special and different." (c) Walleye

  

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LBs Finest
Member since Sep 28th 2005
19846 posts
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513. "actually jordan never did that sorry...although you'd have to actually"
In response to Reply # 508


  

          

watch basketball to realize that.

Phil knew mike was far too selfish to effectively run the offense and master that balance between getting his own and setting up others. he might have been able to do that for a 3 or 4 game stretch, but not for a season. so he had pippen do it. Kobe proved to his coach, though reluctantly sometimes, that he could do it during phil's first stint.

_________________________

  

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40thStreetBlack
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Tue Jul-28-09 11:24 PM

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517. "he did it in the 91 finals though"
In response to Reply # 513


          

>Phil knew mike was far too selfish to effectively run the
>offense and master that balance between getting his own and
>setting up others. he might have been able to do that for a 3
>or 4 game stretch, but not for a season. so he had pippen do
>it. Kobe proved to his coach, though reluctantly sometimes,
>that he could do it during phil's first stint.

LOL - phil has literally written tomes on kobe's selfishness. and you've agreed before that if pip played with kobe phil would've made him the facilitator just like he did with the bulls.

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

  

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El_essence
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518. "lol ya'll be putting waaay too much on pierce's performance"
In response to Reply # 508


  

          

dude had 1 great game, 1 good game and ok game. No he was not solely relied upon to account for a huge chunk of the playmaking and wasn't even the primary scorer.

I'll accept MJ. Although, I wouldn't necessarily say he was the only significant playmaker on that 91 team. Scottie had a huge chunk as well.

Kobe was both every game and the drop off for second playmaker was pretty wide and never the same person.

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
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Wed Jul-29-09 10:22 PM

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527. "wade too, btw"
In response to Reply # 518


  

          

pierce was mostly mad-making

lol

-----------
mas que un club

08-09 Survivor Champion.

"I mean, I can pigeonhole people because I'm close-minded. But I'm special and different." (c) Walleye

  

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El_essence
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24899 posts
Thu Jul-30-09 08:46 AM

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531. "Wades a good one nm"
In response to Reply # 527


  

          


-----------------

"Dawg, this is the greatest case of scorned vaginas in OKS history.."

LegacyNS on OKS AI nuthuggers who hate on Kobe and the Lakers.

  

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Beamer6178
Member since Jan 09th 2006
6379 posts
Tue Jul-28-09 01:58 PM

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506. "RE: lol and you definitely took an L here"
In response to Reply # 481


  

          

hard for you to let go, huh?

  

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Kungset
Member since Mar 29th 2004
6426 posts
Wed Jul-22-09 11:09 AM

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360. "we REALLY need to stop referencing PER like it's OPS or some shit"
In response to Reply # 330


  

          

it was made up by john hollinger whose math formulas decided that utah and denver were the best western conference teams in the playoffs last year

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
26425 posts
Wed Jul-22-09 11:10 AM

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362. "i agree. PER is an average working stat"
In response to Reply # 360


  

          


-----------
mas que un club

08-09 Survivor Champion.

"I mean, I can pigeonhole people because I'm close-minded. But I'm special and different." (c) Walleye

  

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LegacyNS
Member since Jan 16th 2004
38095 posts
Tue Jul-21-09 11:47 AM

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340. "http://i41.tinypic.com/t9f85c.jpg"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://i41.tinypic.com/t9f85c.jpg
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- NOPE!!! CAN'T WIN A RING WITHOUT D. FISH!!

  

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The Mac
Member since Feb 11th 2008
1493 posts
Thu Jul-23-09 03:52 PM

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371. "Question for O_E and Kobe Stans..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

So you continue to bring up the Shaq years as, essentially, years that shouldn't count when looking at Kobe (specifically regarding his PPG). I think we can all agree that having a dominant 30 PPG scorer on his team probably DID lower his PPG by some substantial amount.

What I am curious to know, however, is why you never bring up his FG % during the Shaq era. You are QUICK to use it when it comes to his PPG. However, why don't you ever take into account that Shaq opened up the floor for KB8 because it was *SHAQ* commanding double and triple teams (and rules changes for chrissakes) he was so dominant. With this being the case, how come Kobe couldn't, AT THE VERY LEAST, score at a decent percentage? 47, maybe 48? I mean, even the greatest Bean haters can accept that Shaq probably lowered his average, but why was he so inefficient throughout? I mean, dude had horrible percentages going 1 on 1 w/ Shaq suckin all the attention and had the same horrible percentages playing 5 on 1....so, can you just explain that for a sec...

Cause I'm doing better now, don't mean I never lost shit/ I was married to a state of mind and I divorced it -- Black Thought

  

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DaHumanA8stract
Charter member
880 posts
Thu Jul-23-09 10:35 PM

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372. "add that as well as..."
In response to Reply # 371


          

>So you continue to bring up the Shaq years as, essentially,
>years that shouldn't count when looking at Kobe (specifically
>regarding his PPG). I think we can all agree that having a
>dominant 30 PPG scorer on his team probably DID lower his PPG
>by some substantial amount.
>
>What I am curious to know, however, is why you never bring up
>his FG % during the Shaq era. You are QUICK to use it when it
>comes to his PPG. However, why don't you ever take into
>account that Shaq opened up the floor for KB8 because it was
>*SHAQ* commanding double and triple teams (and rules changes
>for chrissakes) he was so dominant. With this being the case,
>how come Kobe couldn't, AT THE VERY LEAST, score at a decent
>percentage? 47, maybe 48? I mean, even the greatest Bean
>haters can accept that Shaq probably lowered his average, but
>why was he so inefficient throughout? I mean, dude had
>horrible percentages going 1 on 1 w/ Shaq suckin all the
>attention and had the same horrible percentages playing 5 on
>1....so, can you just explain that for a sec...


good question...and while ya'll are at it, include the fact that even Kobe was taking just about or MORE shots than shaq. so its not like shaq was taking away Kobe's opportunities....

"iamrecogninzingthatthevoi
ceinsidemyheadisurgingm
etobemyselfandneverfollow
someoneelse..." - Q-Tip

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Fri Jul-24-09 02:54 AM

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374. "Y'all are making this really, really, easy. "
In response to Reply # 371


  

          

>So you continue to bring up the Shaq years as, essentially,
>years that shouldn't count when looking at Kobe (specifically
>regarding his PPG). I think we can all agree that having a
>dominant 30 PPG scorer on his team probably DID lower his PPG
>by some substantial amount.
>
>What I am curious to know, however, is why you never bring up
>his FG % during the Shaq era. You are QUICK to use it when it
>comes to his PPG. However, why don't you ever take into
>account that Shaq opened up the floor for KB8 because it was
>*SHAQ* commanding double and triple teams (and rules changes
>for chrissakes) he was so dominant. With this being the case,
>how come Kobe couldn't, AT THE VERY LEAST, score at a decent
>percentage? 47, maybe 48? I mean, even the greatest Bean
>haters can accept that Shaq probably lowered his average, but
>why was he so inefficient throughout? I mean, dude had
>horrible percentages going 1 on 1 w/ Shaq suckin all the
>attention and had the same horrible percentages playing 5 on
>1....so, can you just explain that for a sec...

Y'all keep coming up with these points that are supposed
to be the death of Kobe, and they're all so simplistic
and boring and easily etherable

In the triangle offense run with the Lakers during their
3 peat, the plays were run through Shaquille, and the
offense was designed around getting him shots. The offense
was not designed to get Kobe Bryant high percentage shots,
to get him the ball in scoring position. In that offense,
Kobe took a lot of jumpshots that he missed. His jumpshot,
of course, has improved considerably since the Shaq years.

Now his percentage is about 45-46%. Still not stellar,
but certainly respectable, given the high number of 3s
that he shoots.

But part of this is all moot - Jordan had the higher fg%
because he took higher percentage shots. He was better
around the rim, especially early in his career.

^^^^This point was a) never up for debate and b) not
that important to the WHOLE debate that includes
the mid-range game, diversity of skills, long range
shooting, paint scoring, off the dribble scoring, etc.

Like the Kobe supporters are saying: THIS IS A VERY
CLOSE COMPARISON





----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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rl9
Charter member
4494 posts
Fri Jul-24-09 04:56 AM

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377. "further proof of your faux 'expert' posting"
In response to Reply # 374
Fri Jul-24-09 05:00 AM by rl9

  

          

let's just look at this:

>In the triangle offense run with the Lakers during their
>3 peat, the plays were run through Shaquille, and the
>offense was designed around getting him shots. The offense
>was not designed to get Kobe Bryant high percentage shots,
>to get him the ball in scoring position. In that offense,
>Kobe took a lot of jumpshots that he missed. His jumpshot,
>of course, has improved considerably since the Shaq years.

^^shows your knowledge of the triangle just as u've 'proven' with the zone defense above lol. throwin out words without understanding them.

the triangle is designed to create high percentage shots for EVERYBODY not just shaq or centers.

yes, shaq got a lot of looks and took a lot of shots because he was the most dominant player in the L. quite an observation by you.

BUT in the triangle offense run with the bulls the plays were run through the hands of cartwright, grant and later longley and rodman.
i won't say more but i will give u a hint: it's called triangle for a reason.



in fact there are enough statements out there by phil and tex winter complaining when kobe neglects the triangle and just does his thing. then and now. that's when he decides to chuck the ball with too difficult shots instead of letting the offense create the best shot. trust the offense, is what they always preach. don't be afraid of the pass, the ball will return to you.
no matter how you twist it, the fact that kobe played in the triangle almost from day 1 or the fact that he simply played with shaq should've made things easier (higher FG% maybe?) for him. not the other way around as you are trying imply LOL.

let us see how u fabricate just this point to keep alive the fantasy that u are a bball genuis.

''i went from bashful to asshole to international''- CdoubleO

  

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Beamer6178
Member since Jan 09th 2006
6379 posts
Fri Jul-24-09 09:07 AM

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379. "you're wasting your time"
In response to Reply # 377


  

          

>let's just look at this:
>
>>In the triangle offense run with the Lakers during their
>>3 peat, the plays were run through Shaquille, and the
>>offense was designed around getting him shots. The offense
>>was not designed to get Kobe Bryant high percentage shots,
>>to get him the ball in scoring position. In that offense,
>>Kobe took a lot of jumpshots that he missed. His jumpshot,
>>of course, has improved considerably since the Shaq years.

anyone who states that has absolutely no idea what the fuck they're talking about and just wants to hop in on a platinum post. period. i've never heard ANYONE EVER say the triangle isn't designed to make offense easier and allow for higher percentage shots.

  

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LegacyNS
Member since Jan 16th 2004
38095 posts
Fri Jul-24-09 09:32 AM

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382. "I think the overall point is Shaq was the focal point of the offense "
In response to Reply # 379
Fri Jul-24-09 10:01 AM by LegacyNS

  

          

in LA & Jordan was the focal point of the offense in Chicago. Everything went thru them first so they could get best look possible & everyone else played off of that. It doesn't mean other guys didn't also get high % shots at times but the goal is always to get your #1 option the ball first & foremost.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- NOPE!!! CAN'T WIN A RING WITHOUT D. FISH!!

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Fri Jul-24-09 09:38 AM

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383. "^^^INDEPENDENT THINKER"
In response to Reply # 382


  

          


I mean, is it that *THAT* fucking difficult to
understand?

I'm making a BASIC UNDENIABLE POINT and these cats are
CRYING and DENYING EVERYTHING

LOL

Hilarious and petty

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
26425 posts
Fri Jul-24-09 11:14 AM

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389. "dawg, he;s got willie winguy in his avi"
In response to Reply # 383


  

          

"independent thinker"

lol.

-----------
mas que un club

08-09 Survivor Champion.

"I mean, I can pigeonhole people because I'm close-minded. But I'm special and different." (c) Walleye

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Fri Jul-24-09 11:24 AM

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390. "And you mad. So? "
In response to Reply # 389


  

          


He a Willie fan. You mad.

He better.

----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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jigga
Charter member
31583 posts
Fri Jul-24-09 11:59 AM

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"Does Phil Jackson have him in his avi too?"


  

          

  

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LegacyNS
Member since Jan 16th 2004
38095 posts
Fri Jul-24-09 12:05 PM

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394. "yeah but I still said I think Jordan's shot selection"
In response to Reply # 389
Fri Jul-24-09 12:15 PM by LegacyNS

  

          

weighs more heavily in my evaluation of them as scorers. Other people think shooting percentage or shooting range are more important. I mean, it's fine. People have the right to whatever opinion they want to have. However, I would agree w/o OE tho that saying Kobe & Mike are in the league as scorers isn't a crime against humanity. - LOL

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- NOPE!!! CAN'T WIN A RING WITHOUT D. FISH!!

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
26425 posts
Fri Jul-24-09 09:49 PM

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414. "oh, i'm not saying you're wrong, just pointing out that you aren't unbia..."
In response to Reply # 394


  

          

i mean, i've called both "world class scorers" and said we're comparing two of the greatest scorers to play, possibly the two best i've seen (Jordan certainly is).


-----------
mas que un club

08-09 Survivor Champion.

"I mean, I can pigeonhole people because I'm close-minded. But I'm special and different." (c) Walleye

  

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rl9
Charter member
4494 posts
Fri Jul-24-09 12:10 PM

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395. "couldn't bail u out. take your L. you're welcome."
In response to Reply # 383


  

          


>I'm making a BASIC UNDENIABLE POINT and these cats are
>CRYING and DENYING EVERYTHING

LMAO @ undeniable!!
u couldn't even form a rebuttal or explain what u really meant to say because your post was exposed as fantasy.
i'll help u. try this:



mad?
(maybe i forgot some extra spaces. sorry.)

''i went from bashful to asshole to international''- CdoubleO

  

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Beamer6178
Member since Jan 09th 2006
6379 posts
Fri Jul-24-09 11:03 AM

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386. "RE: I think the overall point is Shaq was the focal point of the offense..."
In response to Reply # 382


  

          

>in LA & Jordan was the focal point of the offense in Chicago.
>Everything went thru them first so they could get best look
>possible & everyone else played off of that. It doesn't mean
>other guys didn't also get high % shots at times but the goal
>is always to get your #1 option the ball first & foremost.
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
><---- NOPE!!! CAN'T WIN A RING WITHOUT D. FISH!!

don't try to clean his bullshit up. kobe while not THE man, was more than just a complementary player, he was VITAL to their success, not just some guy standing around like paxson and kerr, who by the way got a BOATLOAD of good looks because of jordan. everyone knows shaq was the focal point, but that jackoff tries to go into the intricacies of the offense to make that point and he fucked up, plain and simple.

shaq was an absolutely dominating force but he never had success in his career without a SUPERSTAR wingman, especially one who could close out games, make shots further than 2 feet from the basket, make free throws.

  

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DaHumanA8stract
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Fri Jul-24-09 11:56 AM

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391. "AND FURTHERMORE HOW CAN YOU BE #2..."
In response to Reply # 386


          

>>in LA & Jordan was the focal point of the offense in
>Chicago.
>>Everything went thru them first so they could get best look
>>possible & everyone else played off of that. It doesn't mean
>>other guys didn't also get high % shots at times but the
>goal
>>is always to get your #1 option the ball first & foremost.
>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>><---- NOPE!!! CAN'T WIN A RING WITHOUT D. FISH!!
>
>don't try to clean his bullshit up. kobe while not THE man,
>was more than just a complementary player, he was VITAL to
>their success, not just some guy standing around like paxson
>and kerr, who by the way got a BOATLOAD of good looks because
>of jordan. everyone knows shaq was the focal point, but that
>jackoff tries to go into the intricacies of the offense to
>make that point and he fucked up, plain and simple.
>
>shaq was an absolutely dominating force but he never had
>success in his career without a SUPERSTAR wingman, especially
>one who could close out games, make shots further than 2 feet
>from the basket, make free throws.



when you shoot the same IF NOT MORE shots than SHAQ?! in 99-00 Shaq took more shots than kobe...

"iamrecogninzingthatthevoi
ceinsidemyheadisurgingm
etobemyselfandneverfollow
someoneelse..." - Q-Tip

  

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LegacyNS
Member since Jan 16th 2004
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Fri Jul-24-09 12:27 PM

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399. "but you gotta account for a lot of things.."
In response to Reply # 391
Fri Jul-24-09 12:36 PM by LegacyNS

  

          

for example minutes per game & games missed due to foul trouble & injuries, etc... And like I said, Shaq does get double teamed which forces other guys to shoot but it doesn't mean the play isn't designed to get Shaq the ball first to see if he can get an easier look.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- NOPE!!! CAN'T WIN A RING WITHOUT D. FISH!!

  

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LegacyNS
Member since Jan 16th 2004
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Fri Jul-24-09 11:59 AM

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392. "w/o getting too deep into it"
In response to Reply # 386


  

          

>>in LA & Jordan was the focal point of the offense in
>Chicago.
>>Everything went thru them first so they could get best look
>>possible & everyone else played off of that. It doesn't mean
>>other guys didn't also get high % shots at times but the
>goal
>>is always to get your #1 option the ball first & foremost.
>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>><---- NOPE!!! CAN'T WIN A RING WITHOUT D. FISH!!
>
>don't try to clean his bullshit up. kobe while not THE man,
>was more than just a complementary player, he was VITAL to
>their success, not just some guy standing around like paxson
>and kerr, who by the way got a BOATLOAD of good looks because
>of jordan. everyone knows shaq was the focal point, but that
>jackoff tries to go into the intricacies of the offense to
>make that point and he fucked up, plain and simple.
>
>shaq was an absolutely dominating force but he never had
>success in his career without a SUPERSTAR wingman, especially
>one who could close out games, make shots further than 2 feet
>from the basket, make free throws.


I understand everything about Kobe not being a role player. In fact, I've always argued Kobe was a franchise player on the wing playing w/ a franchise player in the post therefore he's had be 1B. However, the point I was attempting to bring clarity on is Shaq was always the first option meaning the offense ran thru him & the goal was to get him good looks first & foremost (which of course was also the case w/ MJ on the Bulls).

Yes, Kobe got a ton of good looks but often times it just happened to be the outcome of the play rather than the design. And, I'm not saying they never ran play for Kobe. They clearly did but obviously not as much as Shaq which make sense. When the offense is designed around you, it's specifically geared to get you the ball when & where you want it to make you more effective. The triangle is designed to eliminate the point guard so to speak & create ball movement which results in looks for anyone on the court. However, it doesn't mean a specific player isn't the starting point for running the offense. Given that, if Shaq is the starting point you can't have Kobe in the post like you do now, etc...


We're really not that much in disagreement here. I'm was just trying to bring some clarity to that particular point.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- NOPE!!! CAN'T WIN A RING WITHOUT D. FISH!!

  

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Beamer6178
Member since Jan 09th 2006
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Fri Jul-24-09 01:49 PM

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412. "RE: w/o getting too deep into it"
In response to Reply # 392


  

          

>>>in LA & Jordan was the focal point of the offense in
>>Chicago.
>>>Everything went thru them first so they could get best look
>>>possible & everyone else played off of that. It doesn't
>mean
>>>other guys didn't also get high % shots at times but the
>>goal
>>>is always to get your #1 option the ball first & foremost.
>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>><---- NOPE!!! CAN'T WIN A RING WITHOUT D. FISH!!
>>
>>don't try to clean his bullshit up. kobe while not THE man,
>>was more than just a complementary player, he was VITAL to
>>their success, not just some guy standing around like paxson
>>and kerr, who by the way got a BOATLOAD of good looks
>because
>>of jordan. everyone knows shaq was the focal point, but that
>>jackoff tries to go into the intricacies of the offense to
>>make that point and he fucked up, plain and simple.
>>
>>shaq was an absolutely dominating force but he never had
>>success in his career without a SUPERSTAR wingman,
>especially
>>one who could close out games, make shots further than 2
>feet
>>from the basket, make free throws.
>
>
>I understand everything about Kobe not being a role player. In
>fact, I've always argued Kobe was a franchise player on the
>wing playing w/ a franchise player in the post therefore he's
>had be 1B. However, the point I was attempting to bring
>clarity on is Shaq was always the first option meaning the
>offense ran thru him & the goal was to get him good looks
>first & foremost (which of course was also the case w/ MJ on
>the Bulls).
>
>Yes, Kobe got a ton of good looks but often times it just
>happened to be the outcome of the play rather than the design.
>And, I'm not saying they never ran play for Kobe. They clearly
>did but obviously not as much as Shaq which make sense. When
>the offense is designed around you, it's specifically geared
>to get you the ball when & where you want it to make you more
>effective. The triangle is designed to eliminate the point
>guard so to speak & create ball movement which results in
>looks for anyone on the court. However, it doesn't mean a
>specific player isn't the starting point for running the
>offense. Given that, if Shaq is the starting point you can't
>have Kobe in the post like you do now, etc...
>
>
>We're really not that much in disagreement here. I'm was just
>trying to bring some clarity to that particular point.
no i feel you and thanks for being logical about it, but HO E was acting like the offense didn't allow for kobe to have easy shots, and my point was the triangle made his job easier, in that even if plays weren't specifically designed for him, shaq kicking it out and the ball moving around will make his shot easier than him being the focal point and facing a constant double team. the way you stated it is NOT the way that dude did.

  

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rl9
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Fri Jul-24-09 11:59 AM

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393. "read again what he says"
In response to Reply # 382


  

          

i'll repeat it 4 u. he copped pleas 4 kobe sayin that the triangle was not used in kobe's favor because it did not give him good looks and that's why his FG% couldn't be that high which is complete bullshit. i think tex winter would strangle anyone sayin that.
of course u have to at least now a little how the triangle works and how they ran it with which lineup. it's not a freestyle 1 on 5 offense in which u have to create your shot without help but it is a better look every time.

yet again he caught an L while acting like he knows better.
don't even try to cover up this pure BS posting.

the triangle is never a static set. it's not just dump it down low and see what happens.
and with a big man like shaq demanding double teams.......see how i'm wasting my time?


>in LA & Jordan was the focal point of the offense in Chicago.
>Everything went thru them first so they could get best look
>possible & everyone else played off of that. It doesn't mean
>other guys didn't also get high % shots at times but the goal
>is always to get your #1 option the ball first & foremost.

this is a static interpretation of an offensive set like the triangle. i agree u'll always have no.1 and no.2 options but to say others suffer because of that (especially FG%s, that was the point of the discussion) is wrong.

''i went from bashful to asshole to international''- CdoubleO

  

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LegacyNS
Member since Jan 16th 2004
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Fri Jul-24-09 12:11 PM

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396. "all I'm sayin is when you play w/ Shaq"
In response to Reply # 393


  

          

triangle or not, you're going to play more on the wing to give Shaq space to operate. If Jordan played w/ Shaq, he would have had far less opportunities to play in the low post which is a fair point to make. Ev

Now, if I'm interpreting his comments wrong my bad but watching both of those dynasties that's kind my interpretation of comments albeit somewhat conflated w/ what I remember watching.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- NOPE!!! CAN'T WIN A RING WITHOUT D. FISH!!

  

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rl9
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Fri Jul-24-09 12:23 PM

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398. "RE: all I'm sayin is when you play w/ Shaq"
In response to Reply # 396


  

          

>triangle or not, you're going to play more on the wing to
>give Shaq space to operate. If Jordan played w/ Shaq, he would
>have had far less opportunities to play in the low post which
>is a fair point to make. Ev

he said the system was not run to get him in scoring position. wrong. plain and simple.

i see your point but it's not like kobe is a post player after shaq left and the stuff jordan did around the lowpost area u can do in any sytem with a dominant center or not. and it's not like shaq played 48 minutes.
u have a dominant big that can pass in a system like the triangle it gives u open looks galore and i don't mean only long jumpers. ever heard of cuts to the basket?


''i went from bashful to asshole to international''- CdoubleO

  

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LegacyNS
Member since Jan 16th 2004
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Fri Jul-24-09 12:35 PM

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401. "RE: all I'm sayin is when you play w/ Shaq"
In response to Reply # 398


  

          

>>triangle or not, you're going to play more on the wing to
>>give Shaq space to operate. If Jordan played w/ Shaq, he
>would
>>have had far less opportunities to play in the low post
>which
>>is a fair point to make. Ev
>
>he said the system was not run to get him in scoring position.
>wrong. plain and simple.
>
>i see your point but it's not like kobe is a post player after
>shaq left and the stuff jordan did around the lowpost area u
>can do in any sytem with a dominant center or not. and it's
>not like shaq played 48 minutes.
>u have a dominant big that can pass in a system like the
>triangle it gives u open looks galore and i don't mean only
>long jumpers. ever heard of cuts to the basket?
>
>
>
That's fair. I wouldn't say it that way. I would say that the system was designed with the goal of getting Shaq looks first but of course the goal is to get a good look out of the offense set even if your first option doesn't take the shot. As far as MJ, he wouldn't not have be able to use his post game as of much if he played w/ a dominant center who's game was as resticted to the post as Shaq. A few of the centers w/ the Bulls could also hit the midrange/ft line jump shot which allowed MJ to work the post when necessary. That ain't happening w/ Diesel on the court.. - LOL





~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- NOPE!!! CAN'T WIN A RING WITHOUT D. FISH!!

  

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rl9
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404. "RE: all I'm sayin is when you play w/ Shaq"
In response to Reply # 401
Fri Jul-24-09 01:26 PM by rl9

  

          

>>>triangle or not, you're going to play more on the wing to
>>>give Shaq space to operate. If Jordan played w/ Shaq, he
>>would
>>>have had far less opportunities to play in the low post
>>which
>>>is a fair point to make. Ev
>>
>>he said the system was not run to get him in scoring
>position.
>>wrong. plain and simple.
>>
>>i see your point but it's not like kobe is a post player
>after
>>shaq left and the stuff jordan did around the lowpost area u
>>can do in any sytem with a dominant center or not. and it's
>>not like shaq played 48 minutes.
>>u have a dominant big that can pass in a system like the
>>triangle it gives u open looks galore and i don't mean only
>>long jumpers. ever heard of cuts to the basket?
>>
>>
>>
>That's fair. I wouldn't say it that way. I would say that the
>system was designed with the goal of getting Shaq looks first
>but of course the goal is to get a good look out of the
>offense set even if your first option doesn't take the shot.
>As far as MJ, he wouldn't not have be able to use his post
>game as of much if he played w/ a dominant center who's game
>was as resticted to the post as Shaq. A few of the centers w/
>the Bulls could also hit the midrange/ft line jump shot which
>allowed MJ to work the post when necessary. That ain't
>happening w/ Diesel on the court.. - LOL
>

that's if you play em both on the strong side. u do that if your second guy is a good shooter and/or can cut hard to the basket. then of course shaq will be in your way if u want to post down low.

but the luxury of havin another star is u can have him on the weak side where he can cut, for example, or u swing the ball to the weak side and form a new triangle there. this is usually how u play it.
i mean cmon u don't even need to play the triangle to know that it's not the smartest idea to have your two best players always on the strong side, unless u want to pick and roll it all the time.
either way, saying your FG% suffers because you play in the triangle shows how much he knows about it or how the lakers actually played during those title runs.
i also like how this whole post got sucked in the idea that kobe's game is so diverse while all mike did was post up or drive to the basket and fired long jumpers just from time to time.

''i went from bashful to asshole to international''- CdoubleO

  

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jahlove7
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Fri Jul-24-09 09:21 AM

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380. "i have a question for all you kobistans"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

if kobe is the better scorer and shooter, then how come he's never shot at least 50% even ONCE in his career?

it's a pretty simple question.

and yes, fg% plays an important part in it all.

inaugural member - okayplayer sports hall of fame.


what i'm digging right now:

chocolate butterfly - self-titled
laura jane - welcome to my planet boo
me & this japanese guy - waiting for the miracle
wade3 - dreams
tracey amos - who are we really?

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Fri Jul-24-09 09:50 AM

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385. "Simple"
In response to Reply # 380


  

          


Same reason why...say...Glen Rice's field goal
percentage was lower than say....Charles Barkely.

Same reason that Michael Jordan's field goal
percentages pale in comparison to say...Shaquille
O'Neal.

Barkely takes higher percentage shots than Glenn
Rice.

Shaquille takes higher percentage shots than Jordan,
and they go in the hoop at a higher clip.

The closer to the basket you tend to operate, the higher
your shooting percentage tends to be.

Kobe operates on the perimeter a lot more than Jordan
did. That statistic alone says nothing for who is the
better overall *scorer*, who has the more diverse palette,
who is more skilled, more 'pure' or whatever you want
to call it.

Plus, Phil Jackson already said Kobe is the better
shooter and more skilled, so this debate is pretty much
over anyway


----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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Beamer6178
Member since Jan 09th 2006
6379 posts
Fri Jul-24-09 11:08 AM

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387. "*yawn*"
In response to Reply # 385
Fri Jul-24-09 11:09 AM by Beamer6178

  

          

>
>Same reason why...say...Glen Rice's field goal
>percentage was lower than say....Charles Barkely.
two entirely different type of players. glen rice for the most part was jump shooter, barkley was a multifaceted power forward who could go in and out

>Same reason that Michael Jordan's field goal
>percentages pale in comparison to say...Shaquille
>O'Neal.
two guard and a center

>Barkely takes higher percentage shots than Glenn
>Rice.
>
>Shaquille takes higher percentage shots than Jordan,
>and they go in the hoop at a higher clip.
>
>The closer to the basket you tend to operate, the higher
>your shooting percentage tends to be.
>
>Kobe operates on the perimeter a lot more than Jordan
>did. That statistic alone says nothing for who is the
>better overall *scorer*, who has the more diverse palette,
>who is more skilled, more 'pure' or whatever you want
>to call it.
they play the same position, display generally the same set of shots, one just was superior in his selection, even though he could and DID make ANY shot the other could.

>Plus, Phil Jackson already said Kobe is the better
>shooter and more skilled, so this debate is pretty much
>over anyway
go away now

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Fri Jul-24-09 11:14 AM

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388. "LOL. Wrong. You ruined your whole post right here. "
In response to Reply # 387


  

          


>they play the same position, display generally the same set of
>shots, one just was superior in his selection, even though he
>could and DID make ANY shot the other could.

LOL.

Phil Jackson and everyone who thinks for themselves
knows that Kobe is a better long range shooter, in which
case they are not the same, and no, Jordan could not
dominate out on the perimeter the way that Kobe could.

I mean, all of this is was ethered by Phil Jackson.



----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
20388 posts
Fri Jul-24-09 12:16 PM

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397. "Like Phil Jackson is gonna say Jordan is better when it will only"
In response to Reply # 388
Fri Jul-24-09 12:30 PM by vee-lover

  

          

fuel ESPN stories about how "Phil still doesn't think Kobe is as great a player as Jordan" or "why would Phil talk about Jordan, a former player, in comparison to Kobe, someone whom he currently coaches?"

I've heard Phil in an interview pre-Kobe/Phil fallout that he said in so many words that Jordan was more unstoppable when he got going and that Jordan had better endurance than Bean.


>Phil Jackson and everyone who thinks for themselves
>knows that Kobe is a better long range shooter, in which
>case they are not the same, and no, Jordan could not
>dominate out on the perimeter the way that Kobe could.

I have NO problem admitting that Kobe is a *better long-range shooter* than Jordan but he is NOT a better *overall scorer than MJ*...and that whole bit you went into about "Jordan taking more high pct. shots than Kobe is really non sense" when you take into account that BOTH HAVE DAMN NEAR THE SAME SKILL SET...yeah, sure, one posts up a little more than the other and one takes more long range jump shots than the other but essentially their offensive games mirror each other's game more than any two other players before...or really Kobe's game is patterned after Jordan's game.

When you have two players whose games are so similar you have to look at the details and intricacies of their game to distinguish between whose the better scorer. And here are some of the things that clearly show MJ is the superior scorer....

-HIGHER FG% PCT.
-AVERAGED MORE POINTS PER GAME
-WAS THE NO.#1 OPTION FROM DAY ONE
-WAS THE FOCUS OF THE OPPOSING TEAM'S DEFENSE FROM DAY 1.(never had the luxury of playing with another great scorer like Kobe w/Shaq)
-DEFENSIVE PLAYERS WERE ALLOWED TO DO MORE TO THE OFFENSIVE PLAYER IN MJ'S ERA

Jordan saw double teams from the moment he set foot on the court, unlike Kobe who got to operate in more one-on-one situations because of the opposing team's double teams and defensive focus on Shaquille, and he was still the closest thing to being automatic I have ever seen, especially for a perimeter player.

>
>I mean, all of this is was ethered by Phil Jackson.

You mean the same Phil Jackson that wrote an entire book about how selfish an athlete Kobe was?...(only later to recant his statements when he became coach again for LA)...ok, got it....

grassrootsphilosopher

  

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DaHumanA8stract
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Fri Jul-24-09 12:27 PM

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400. "I'm sure Phil would say Craig Hodges.."
In response to Reply # 397
Fri Jul-24-09 12:29 PM by DaHumanA8stract

          

was a better 3point shooter than Jordan also..OE, what da hell is your point??



"iamrecogninzingthatthevoi
ceinsidemyheadisurgingm
etobemyselfandneverfollow
someoneelse..." - Q-Tip

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Fri Jul-24-09 12:46 PM

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402. "Nigga...you carry and infectious L-puss in your posts. "
In response to Reply # 397
Fri Jul-24-09 01:18 PM by Orbit_Established

  

          

Look at you fucking faggots trying to COP PLEAS for
Phil Jackson saying Kobe is more skilled and a better
shooter

L

  

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vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
20388 posts
Fri Jul-24-09 12:52 PM

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403. "Mad??"
In response to Reply # 402


  

          










































































































































































why? LOLLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

grassrootsphilosopher

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Fri Jul-24-09 01:19 PM

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405. "*Takes L Prophylaxis*"
In response to Reply # 403


  

          


Sneeze in the other direction, nigga

Not even your own camp fucks with you

You're like a nigga who got outed for fondling little
boys



----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
20388 posts
Fri Jul-24-09 01:23 PM

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406. "bwahahahahaha....damn, you mad fa real, huh?"
In response to Reply # 405


  

          

too many folks gangin up on you or something...LOLOLOLOL


>Sneeze in the other direction, nigga
>
>Not even your own camp fucks with you
>
>You're like a nigga who got outed for fondling little
>boys

And I'm still on the right side of this argument...you wrong, so suck it up and now go back to your cubicle before your boss catches you bullshittin on company time.

grassrootsphilosopher

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Fri Jul-24-09 01:27 PM

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407. "LOL...you in Costa Rica on the internet taking Ls, doggie"
In response to Reply # 406


  

          


You've seen more Ls than you have Costa Rican
vaginas, which is just......WOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOW

>too many folks gangin up on you or something...LOLOLOLOL

You mean, ganging up *with* me

Me and Phil Jackson ended this debate


Its aight tho




----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
20388 posts
Fri Jul-24-09 01:40 PM

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409. "RE: LOL...you in Costa Rica on the internet taking Ls, doggie"
In response to Reply # 407
Fri Jul-24-09 01:59 PM by vee-lover

  

          

Right now I can tell your anger is seething right about now...don't lie....

I'm living in Costa Rica currently and right now I'm at the office talking shit on the internet...about to order me some mothersuckin "Gallo Pinto" and enjoying the weather...gotta love it...wish you could be here homie

>You've seen more Ls than you have Costa Rican
>vaginas, which is just......WOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOW

Naw, in all actuality, I've *smoked* just as many "Ls" as Vaginas...and that's hard to do here in Costa Rica.
>
>>too many folks gangin up on you or something...LOLOLOLOL
>
>You mean, ganging up *with* me

Is that what they call it now? too bad you and your compadres are on the wrong side of the argument on this one...there is just no argument you can construct that supports the idea that Kobe is a "better scorer than Jordan"
>
>Me and Phil Jackson ended this debate

bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha...like I said, go back to your cubicle or take your lunch break or something...
>
>
>Its aight tho

yeah, fa sho......

grassrootsphilosopher

  

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Beamer6178
Member since Jan 09th 2006
6379 posts
Fri Jul-24-09 01:42 PM

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410. "RE: LOL. Wrong. You ruined your whole post right here. "
In response to Reply # 388


  

          

>
>>they play the same position, display generally the same set
>of
>>shots, one just was superior in his selection, even though
>he
>>could and DID make ANY shot the other could.
>
>LOL.
>
>Phil Jackson and everyone who thinks for themselves
>knows that Kobe is a better long range shooter, in which
>case they are not the same, and no, Jordan could not
>dominate out on the perimeter the way that Kobe could.
now you just sound stupid. i guess dropping 6 threes on portland IN THE FIRST HALF of the finals doesn't count for dominating on the perimeter huh?

seriously man. do you read what everyone writes or do you have your response "thought" (and i use that term loosely) out before you click "post message"



>I mean, all of this is was ethered by Phil Jackson.
your shit is so weak that you're now using someone elses words to make your whole case, someone who wrote a tell all hoemade book to absolve himself of his 1/3 role in the lakers dynasty dissolution (bean and shaq having the other equal 1/3 part responsibility)?

just go away

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Fri Jul-24-09 01:47 PM

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411. "I'd be mad if I was you too. "
In response to Reply # 410


  

          


So its okay for y'all to use Kobeisoverrated.com
and not for me to use Phil Jackson's actual remarks

I feel you

LOL

Idiot





----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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DaHumanA8stract
Charter member
880 posts
Fri Jul-24-09 05:59 PM

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413. "read post 408"
In response to Reply # 411


          

>
>So its okay for y'all to use Kobeisoverrated.com
>and not for me to use Phil Jackson's actual remarks
>
>I feel you
>
>LOL
>
>Idiot
>
>
>
>
>
>----------------------------
>
>http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others
>
>
>O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.
>
>
>"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."
>
>(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

"iamrecogninzingthatthevoi
ceinsidemyheadisurgingm
etobemyselfandneverfollow
someoneelse..." - Q-Tip

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Fri Jul-24-09 10:04 PM

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416. "Post 408 was another "Its just Phil's Opinion" Plea cop"
In response to Reply # 413


  

          


Its already been shot down several times

L


----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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Beamer6178
Member since Jan 09th 2006
6379 posts
Sun Jul-26-09 05:52 PM

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448. "RE: I'd be mad if I was you too. "
In response to Reply # 411


  

          

>
>So its okay for y'all to use Kobeisoverrated.com
>and not for me to use Phil Jackson's actual remarks
>
>I feel you
>
>LOL
>
>Idiot
>


i never relied on kobeisoverrated to make my points,it has a lot of strong points but that's not what i was basing my assessment on so miss me with this "y'all", brudda

  

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jahlove7
Charter member
10743 posts
Fri Jul-24-09 10:06 PM

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417. "RE: Simple"
In response to Reply # 385


  

          

>
>Same reason why...say...Glen Rice's field goal
>percentage was lower than say....Charles Barkely.

o_e, you do realize you're comparing a pure shooting small forward to a dominant lowpost four here, right?

>Same reason that Michael Jordan's field goal
>percentages pale in comparison to say...Shaquille
>O'Neal.

um, the same here, dude. it's apples and oranges.

>Barkely takes higher percentage shots than Glenn
>Rice.

right...

>Shaquille takes higher percentage shots than Jordan,
>and they go in the hoop at a higher clip.

this isn't even remotely the same, o_e, and you know it. do better bro. *lol*

>The closer to the basket you tend to operate, the higher
>your shooting percentage tends to be.

true, but let's put this on even ground. russell played at the basket, but only shot about 44% for his career. wilt on the other hand, shot 54% for his career. both played close to the basket, (with wilt actually playing farther away at times) but the fact is, wilt was a better shooter and scorer. it's really that simple.

>Kobe operates on the perimeter a lot more than Jordan
>did. That statistic alone says nothing for who is the
>better overall *scorer*, who has the more diverse palette,
>who is more skilled, more 'pure' or whatever you want
>to call it.

bro, both players operated on the perimeter. i saw jordan play in high school and i can tell you he could stroke the long distance shot at a high percentage. the difference is dean smith shortened mj's game when he discovered his lethal first step. jordan never looked back; afterall, if it ain't broke, you don't try to fix it. the bottom line is jordan is just a purer shooter than kobe. that he isn't a better three-point shooter just speaks to his higher b-ball i.q. if anything. (the 3-pointer is a lower % shot afterall)

>Plus, Phil Jackson already said Kobe is the better
>shooter and more skilled, so this debate is pretty much
>over anyway

*lol* you mean the same phil jackson that said kobe used to sabotage his high school games? o_e, phil says a lot of shit. he also said that jordan was better equipped to be great. (bigger hands, faster, quicker, stronger...just a better overall athlete)

i wouldn't bank on phil if i were you.

inaugural member - okayplayer sports hall of fame.


what i'm digging right now:

chocolate butterfly - self-titled
laura jane - welcome to my planet boo
me & this japanese guy - waiting for the miracle
wade3 - dreams
tracey amos - who are we really?

  

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Beamer6178
Member since Jan 09th 2006
6379 posts
Sun Jul-26-09 06:32 PM

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451. "RE: Simple"
In response to Reply # 417


  

          

he banks on whatever the hell he thinks can rescue his fledgling ass argument

  

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LBs Finest
Member since Sep 28th 2005
19846 posts
Fri Jul-24-09 11:23 PM

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418. "so comparing wing players, fg% determines the better scorer & shooter?"
In response to Reply # 380


  

          

_________________________

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Sat Jul-25-09 12:16 AM

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421. "We already destroyed that point like 200 posts ago"
In response to Reply # 418
Sat Jul-25-09 12:16 AM by Orbit_Established

  

          


The bad arguments are starting to reoccur


----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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jahlove7
Charter member
10743 posts
Sat Jul-25-09 01:57 AM

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424. "it definately determines who's the more EFFICIENT scorer"
In response to Reply # 418


  

          

you know, putting the ball in the basket at a higher rate by taking less shots and all that.

in that case, this isn't really up for argument, considering that's what counts most, the style points be damned.

jordan shot at a much higher percentage and was more efficient, hands down.

it's really that simple kid.

inaugural member - okayplayer sports hall of fame.


what i'm digging right now:

chocolate butterfly - self-titled
laura jane - welcome to my planet boo
me & this japanese guy - waiting for the miracle
wade3 - dreams
tracey amos - who are we really?

  

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LBs Finest
Member since Sep 28th 2005
19846 posts
Sat Jul-25-09 06:42 PM

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428. "i'll take all that as a NO."
In response to Reply # 424


  

          

_________________________

  

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jahlove7
Charter member
10743 posts
Sun Jul-26-09 11:43 AM

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436. "and you'd be WRONG"
In response to Reply # 428


  

          

yet again.

inaugural member - okayplayer sports hall of fame.


what i'm digging right now:

chocolate butterfly - self-titled
laura jane - welcome to my planet boo
me & this japanese guy - waiting for the miracle
wade3 - dreams
tracey amos - who are we really?

  

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LBs Finest
Member since Sep 28th 2005
19846 posts
Sun Jul-26-09 02:50 PM

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446. "so it does determine the better shooter?"
In response to Reply # 436


  

          

you didn't really answer the question, a simple yes or no would suffice.

_________________________

  

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jahlove7
Charter member
10743 posts
Sun Jul-26-09 11:35 PM

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457. "clearly yes"
In response to Reply # 446


  

          

if kobe was the pure shooter than you and o_e thinks he is, he'd be shooting at a higher percentage. he's got an array of moves and an offensive arsenal, but the fact remains he misses 54% of his shots for his career.

and as he gets older, that percentage will drop just as it does with every player not named wilt or artis gilmore.

hope this helps. and thanks for coming out and playing.

inaugural member - okayplayer sports hall of fame.


what i'm digging right now:

chocolate butterfly - self-titled
laura jane - welcome to my planet boo
me & this japanese guy - waiting for the miracle
wade3 - dreams
tracey amos - who are we really?

  

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LBs Finest
Member since Sep 28th 2005
19846 posts
Mon Jul-27-09 08:00 AM

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459. "wade and bron have both had higher FG% for 5 years straight."
In response to Reply # 457


  

          

they're better shooters than kobe too? another simple yes or no question.

_________________________

  

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jahlove7
Charter member
10743 posts
Mon Jul-27-09 12:16 PM

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465. "wade already is a better shooter than kobe"
In response to Reply # 459


  

          

from midrange, and that's proven. lebron and kobe aren't nearly the same type of player. lebron isn't the shooter kobe is, but kobe isn't nearly as physically unstoppable as lebron is either.

okay, now i have a question for you? if you really believe kobe is a better pure scorer than jordan, when why isn't he putting up iceman or alex english shooting % numbers? (go look 'em up...nba.com if it helps)

i await your answer...

inaugural member - okayplayer sports hall of fame.


what i'm digging right now:

chocolate butterfly - self-titled
laura jane - welcome to my planet boo
me & this japanese guy - waiting for the miracle
wade3 - dreams
tracey amos - who are we really?

  

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LBs Finest
Member since Sep 28th 2005
19846 posts
Mon Jul-27-09 05:54 PM

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468. "lol no, he isn't."
In response to Reply # 465


  

          

_________________________

  

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jahlove7
Charter member
10743 posts
Tue Jul-28-09 01:50 AM

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480. "funny how you didn't answer the question"
In response to Reply # 468


  

          

so i'll repeat it. if kobe is THE scorer you say he is, him being better than mj and all, then how come he's not putting up george gervin/alex english shooting percentage numbers?

you're coming up kinda small here chief.

as for wade, his midrange game is just better than kobe's. his separation from his defender is better, his shot selection is better, and when he's open, he'll kill you from 18 feet and in.

i think you're confusing d-wade's array of moves being better than kobe's and willie wins that one easily. but shooting touch? nah...wade all day.

inaugural member - okayplayer sports hall of fame.


what i'm digging right now:

chocolate butterfly - self-titled
laura jane - welcome to my planet boo
me & this japanese guy - waiting for the miracle
wade3 - dreams
tracey amos - who are we really?

  

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Justin_Maldonado_7
Charter member
5042 posts
Sat Jul-25-09 06:55 AM

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426. "MJ = Rakim...Kobe = Nas"
In response to Reply # 0


          

W/O Rakim, there would've been no Nas

  

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CliffDogg
Member since Dec 19th 2004
18078 posts
Sat Jul-25-09 08:43 PM

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432. "So who's Jay-Z?"
In response to Reply # 426


  

          

----

THFC
F1
MotoGP

  

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mtbatol
Member since May 22nd 2002
19788 posts
Sun Jul-26-09 10:23 AM

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435. "Jordan = Ra-Z"
In response to Reply # 432


          

  

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Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
15789 posts
Sun Jul-26-09 02:47 PM

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444. "Naw Rakim= Dr J Nas= Jordan Jay-Z = Magic Johnson"
In response to Reply # 426


  

          

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Sun Jul-26-09 07:53 PM

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452. "We about to break the OK Sports MAD-O-METER up in this post"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


Goddamn it wasn't DESIGNED to deal with this
amount of ANGER

Goddamn y'all niggas furious

----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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LBs Finest
Member since Sep 28th 2005
19846 posts
Sun Jul-26-09 09:20 PM

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453. "well melmag's been enraged since june 14th"
In response to Reply # 452


  

          

40thstreetblack too but not as much since he could see it coming, but he always gets mad when i post that phil jackson quote lol.

but beamer is livid, that nigga really tried to act like our opinions on this are equal to phil jackson's lol.

_________________________

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Sun Jul-26-09 11:51 PM

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458. "Funny thing is - I don't even fuck with Kobe like that. "
In response to Reply # 453
Sun Jul-26-09 11:52 PM by Orbit_Established

  

          


But the baseless, retarded hate he seems to drum up is
too wonderful...I'm going to have to participate in these
some more.

I tried to post a real basketball opinion, then I noticed
the retardness just ESCALATE....I was like WOWOWOWOW

----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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40thStreetBlack
Charter member
27116 posts
Mon Jul-27-09 06:46 PM

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471. "you've been enraged since 2005 "
In response to Reply # 453


          

with one of your very first posts on here about "why don't you guys like Kobe?", you been mad ever since.

>40thstreetblack too but not as much since he could see it
>coming, but he always gets mad when i post that phil jackson
>quote lol.

nah I just like seeing you try to dance around the other phil jackson quote you don't like to acknowledge lol.

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

  

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LBs Finest
Member since Sep 28th 2005
19846 posts
Mon Jul-27-09 07:01 PM

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474. "that post put me on the map."
In response to Reply # 471


  

          

>with one of your very first posts on here about "why don't
>you guys like Kobe?", you been mad ever since.

im quite happy as it stands today though (avi). unfortunately i can't say the same for others in here.

>
>>40thstreetblack too but not as much since he could see it
>>coming, but he always gets mad when i post that phil jackson
>>quote lol.
>
>nah I just like seeing you try to dance around the other phil
>jackson quote you don't like to acknowledge lol.
>
>

*rolls eyes* again, my phil jackson quote doesn't speak in hypotheticals.

_________________________

  

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40thStreetBlack
Charter member
27116 posts
Tue Jul-28-09 10:22 AM

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493. "it established you as the prime minister of kobestan"
In response to Reply # 474


          

>im quite happy as it stands today though (avi). unfortunately
>i can't say the same for others in here.

but you're still mad that outside of a handful of irrational lakers fanatics almost nobody considers kobe as good as mike & that bron is widely considered to be better than kobe. you can point to your avy all you want, but it's pretty obvious.


>*rolls eyes* again, my phil jackson quote doesn't speak in
>hypotheticals.

LOL- it doesn't say kobe's a better scorer either. phil's mj quote clearly indicates who Phil thinks is the better scorer though. and i'll take his word on it over yours.

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

  

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LegacyNS
Member since Jan 16th 2004
38095 posts
Tue Jul-28-09 09:08 AM

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488. "LOL @ you been mad ever since"
In response to Reply # 471


  

          

So basically, LB been mad from jump... LOL
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- NOPE!!! CAN'T WIN A RING WITHOUT D. FISH!!

  

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40thStreetBlack
Charter member
27116 posts
Tue Jul-28-09 10:28 AM

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494. "go look up that post, it's pretty funny"
In response to Reply # 488


          

LB came in here all doe-eyed & got scorched by the beannut hate. been on a rage rampage ever since.

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Tue Jul-28-09 10:44 AM

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495. "LB looks like Mother Theresa compared to the niggas in this post"
In response to Reply # 494


  

          


He's been calm and collected.

The anti Kobe brigade been enraged from jump

Comedy

----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
43744 posts
Sun Jul-26-09 09:59 PM

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454. "WTF man...I was out of the country for 10 days and this broke out?!"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

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JAESCOTT777
Member since Feb 18th 2006
28487 posts
Mon Jul-27-09 08:24 AM

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461. "please DTS its an embarasment..niggas is too mad "
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Jul-27-09 08:24 AM by JAESCOTT777

  

          

.

  

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LegacyNS
Member since Jan 16th 2004
38095 posts
Mon Jul-27-09 08:41 AM

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462. "MADNESS => http://www.filmdope.com/Gallery/ActorsM/44565-27476.gif"
In response to Reply # 461


  

          

http://www.filmdope.com/Gallery/ActorsM/44565-27476.gif
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- NOPE!!! CAN'T WIN A RING WITHOUT D. FISH!!

  

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ChuckNeal
Member since Feb 03rd 2004
5458 posts
Mon Jul-27-09 11:36 AM

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464. "Sooo.......y'all know Jordan is the better scorer though, right?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I'ma pro at this breaking a player down to his skill set to either elevate or dismiss his greatness as a player/scorer. Bottom line is - Jordan was the better scorer - regardless of Kobe's skill set. That is the answer to the question - this post didn't need to get more than 10 replies to figure this out. I'm laughin at y'all really lettin LB and OE make y'all this mad tho.

Famousfarrah.com <--- a webseries I worked on

  

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El_essence
Charter member
24899 posts
Mon Jul-27-09 01:07 PM

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466. "RE: Sooo.......y'all know Jordan is the better scorer though, right?"
In response to Reply # 464


  

          

>I'm laughin at y'all really lettin LB and OE make y'all
>this mad tho.

Mad to the point of making up shit even. The shit is comical. I pop in and out to see how far this has gone daily.

  

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LBs Finest
Member since Sep 28th 2005
19846 posts
Mon Jul-27-09 05:57 PM

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469. "i've popped in to laugh at post 419 for 3 straight days now"
In response to Reply # 466


  

          

>>I'm laughin at y'all really lettin LB and OE make y'all
>>this mad tho.
>
>Mad to the point of making up shit even. The shit is comical.
>I pop in and out to see how far this has gone daily.
>
>

_________________________

  

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El_essence
Charter member
24899 posts
Mon Jul-27-09 06:57 PM

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473. "goodness...I think Legacy said it best"
In response to Reply # 469


  

          

how you gonna catch an L on the right side of the argument. I mean, the only thing I'm in completely agreement on with ya'll is the midrange jumper and over arsenal. I think MJs the better scorer but I think a debate is justified. And some of these responses bare that out whether they want to admit it or not. Shit is literally being made up to defend the better player. It's odd.

  

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JAESCOTT777
Member since Feb 18th 2006
28487 posts
Tue Jul-28-09 08:34 AM

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486. "Post 419 broke the needle off the madness scale"
In response to Reply # 469


  

          

i cant believe i missed that

LMAO!!!

wauxxxx

  

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LegacyNS
Member since Jan 16th 2004
38095 posts
Tue Jul-28-09 09:20 AM

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489. " I iz IN tearz"
In response to Reply # 486


  

          


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- NOPE!!! CAN'T WIN A RING WITHOUT D. FISH!!

  

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icecold21
Member since Jan 18th 2008
8433 posts
Tue Jul-28-09 12:00 AM

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479. "480 replies? What an embarrassment. SMH."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

_________________________________________

  

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rl9
Charter member
4494 posts
Tue Jul-28-09 05:03 AM

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483. "for future reference:"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

>lol, Kobestanis wont let up!

''i went from bashful to asshole to international''- CdoubleO

  

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LBs Finest
Member since Sep 28th 2005
19846 posts
Tue Jul-28-09 06:03 AM

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484. "Steve Kerr, former teammate of MJ says Kobe is most complete scorer ever"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=sk-rankings032607&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

His offensive game is so good, so fundamentally sound in every aspect, that it may be time to debate whether or not he's the most complete offensive player in the history of the NBA. I'm not talking about the best player – there are plenty of players who rank well ahead of Bryant in that category. I'm simply wondering if there has ever been a player with a more complete skill set with footwork, ball handling, perimeter shooting and leaping ability.


Dula gets butthurt, decides to email kerr:

Steve, how can you legitimately suggest that Kobe Bryant is the most skilled offensive player in the history of the game when you played with the greatest player of all time in Michael Jordan? I think you have forgotten how great Michael was, especially when the rules of the game allowing hand checking made it more difficult to score. Also, the league was more talented and defensive-minded during M.J.'s greatness. Finally, is it not clear to you that Kobe sets out to score and take over the game instead of letting the game come to him and his teammates? Kobe -- great player, yes. But I'm not impressed.

-Glenn K.
Aurora, Ill.

Glenn, I feel the Chicago love coming through! Don't worry. I'm still an M.J. guy. I'd better be, because if it weren't for him I never would have had the career that I did. (Or the one that I have now, for that matter.) But the fact is, there are facets of Kobe's game that are better than Michael's – in particular, dribbling and perimeter shooting. Michael was more explosive, and he's by far the greatest player ever, but in baseball parlance, Kobe's "stuff" might be a little better.

-Kerr

LMAO! KERR AN MJ FAN AND HE STILL SEE IT! LMAO! HE AINT SCARED TO TALK ABOUT IT!! AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

and OE you know niggaz gon' wanna use the ole "well, he just still bitter about MJ knockin his ass out in practice!" plea cop.

lolololololololololol (c) WC

_________________________

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Tue Jul-28-09 08:28 AM

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485. "^^^^REGISTERED 10000000000000000 on the MAD-MAKING SCALE"
In response to Reply # 484


  

          



STOP!!!!

YOU GONNA BREAK THIS MUFFUCKA


STOP!!!!!


GODDDDAAAAAAAAMMMMNNNN YOU GONNA make one of these niggas
start a BAR FIGHT tonight or something!!!

  

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JAESCOTT777
Member since Feb 18th 2006
28487 posts
Tue Jul-28-09 08:35 AM

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487. "LOL "
In response to Reply # 484
Tue Jul-28-09 08:39 AM by JAESCOTT777

  

          

.

  

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LegacyNS
Member since Jan 16th 2004
38095 posts
Tue Jul-28-09 09:29 AM

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490. "http://thestartingfive.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/kobeshhhh.jpg"
In response to Reply # 484


  

          

http://thestartingfive.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/kobeshhhh.jpg


Sorry, if I can anyway continue to fuel this madness, it's my duty & an OKS participant to do so...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- NOPE!!! CAN'T WIN A RING WITHOUT D. FISH!!

  

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Beamer6178
Member since Jan 09th 2006
6379 posts
Tue Jul-28-09 09:46 AM

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491. "why don't you post vanessa and the girls comments"
In response to Reply # 484


  

          

also his high school coach, brandy, and the 2004 pistons and 2008 celtics?

oh, wait...


i'm doing my part to push this to 500

  

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LBs Finest
Member since Sep 28th 2005
19846 posts
Tue Jul-28-09 07:01 PM

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516. "actually i thought the fact that im only quoting people who had direct"
In response to Reply # 491


  

          

ties to jordan was pretty clear. because if phil and kerr see it, yall can't really do nothing but be mad.

_________________________

  

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Beamer6178
Member since Jan 09th 2006
6379 posts
Wed Jul-29-09 01:01 AM

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519. "RE: actually i thought the fact that im only quoting people who had dire..."
In response to Reply # 516


  

          

>ties to jordan was pretty clear. because if phil and kerr see
>it, yall can't really do nothing but be mad.

what you're doing is TMZing, picking the minute portions that suit you well. i notice you left out craig hodges, scottie pippen, and any other player in the NBA who went against BOTH of them.

this doesn't at all make me mad, its absolutely hilarious that two of you have taken the torch for the tune of 500+ to prove that kobe, while not a better player than jordan, never shooting 50 percent for a season, not averaging more than mike's career best season, and barely averaging more than his second (if he did at all), is somehow a better scorer than him, and trying to act like people are saying kobe is garbage, even though NOBODY disputes the fact that they are VERY VERY VERY close in talent level.

  

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40thStreetBlack
Charter member
27116 posts
Tue Jul-28-09 11:18 AM

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499. ""
In response to Reply # 484


          

who rank well ahead of Bryant in that category.

Michael was more explosive, and he's by far the greatest player ever"

LOL

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
26425 posts
Tue Jul-28-09 02:15 PM

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509. "scans for "better scorer" doesn't see it"
In response to Reply # 499


  

          

*sees "complete" instead*

*realizes lb thinks complete = better*

*shakes head at idiocy*


-----------
mas que un club

08-09 Survivor Champion.

"I mean, I can pigeonhole people because I'm close-minded. But I'm special and different." (c) Walleye

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Tue Jul-28-09 02:20 PM

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510. "*scans post for anger* "
In response to Reply # 509


  

          


Sees this:

http://tinyurl.com/lcq5d8





*runs out of post*















































































































































































































But fa real - why u mad?




----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Tue Jul-28-09 02:22 PM

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511. "*scans post again*"
In response to Reply # 509


  

          


Bravely points this out:


"But the fact is, there are facets of Kobe's game that are better than Michael's – in particular, dribbling and perimeter shooting. Michael was more explosive, and he's by far the greatest player ever, but in baseball parlance, Kobe's 'stuff' might be a little better."


*Usain Bolts out of post*




----------------------------

http://www.dkmsamericas.org/register-today-and-help-save-natasha-and-others


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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LBs Finest
Member since Sep 28th 2005
19846 posts
Tue Jul-28-09 06:31 PM

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515. "cmon now dog"
In response to Reply # 499


  

          

>who rank well ahead of Bryant in that category.
>
>Michael was more explosive, and he's by far the greatest
>player ever"
>
>LOL

you know damn well i never said bean was a better overall player than cheese.

_________________________

  

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ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Tue Jul-28-09 10:10 AM

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492. "lol, this post is hilarious"
In response to Reply # 0


          

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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Matinho
Member since Sep 02nd 2006
9498 posts
Tue Jul-28-09 11:14 AM

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497. "this is wonderful"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

______

  

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Matinho
Member since Sep 02nd 2006
9498 posts
Tue Jul-28-09 11:15 AM

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498. "absolutely wonderful"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

______

  

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LegacyNS
Member since Jan 16th 2004
38095 posts
Tue Jul-28-09 11:25 AM

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501. "I didn't think there was ANY WAY for this post to go Daytona"
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Jul-28-09 11:29 AM by LegacyNS

  

          

Middle of the summer but admittedly not a lot of sports... eh... MAYBE Leonidas,. maybe..

but Daytona? No fuckin way...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- NOPE!!! CAN'T WIN A RING WITHOUT D. FISH!!

  

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Beamer6178
Member since Jan 09th 2006
6379 posts
Tue Jul-28-09 11:40 AM

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502. "RE: I didn't think there was ANY WAY for this post to go Daytona"
In response to Reply # 501


  

          

the power of kobe

  

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JAESCOTT777
Member since Feb 18th 2006
28487 posts
Tue Jul-28-09 11:44 AM

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504. "sheiit this post might go gumball when it gets upped again nxt may"
In response to Reply # 501
Tue Jul-28-09 11:44 AM by JAESCOTT777

  

          

if the lakers are still playing ball

  

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mtbatol
Member since May 22nd 2002
19788 posts
Tue Jul-28-09 04:58 PM

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514. "sooo... I see even though FG% + Triangle Offense was mentioned.."
In response to Reply # 0


          

...this post is stiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiill ongoing :|

..stiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiill going :|

....stiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiill going :|

...stiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiill going :|

*watches the energizer bunny drumming by wearing a Kobe Jordan #23½ jersey*

  

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LegacyNS
Member since Jan 16th 2004
38095 posts
Wed Jul-29-09 12:25 PM

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521. "http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b131/chooch1268/Kyle_Moar.jpg"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b131/chooch1268/Kyle_Moar.jpg
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- NOPE!!! CAN'T WIN A RING WITHOUT D. FISH!!

  

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JAESCOTT777
Member since Feb 18th 2006
28487 posts
Thu Jul-30-09 10:11 AM

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535. "90% of this post right now: "
In response to Reply # 0
Thu Jul-30-09 10:11 AM by JAESCOTT777

  

          

http://i36.tinypic.com/es2mis.gif

  

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LegacyNS
Member since Jan 16th 2004
38095 posts
Thu Jul-30-09 10:38 AM

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537. "the best part is everyone prolly said"
In response to Reply # 535


  

          

No way am I gonna get sucked into this.. Nope.. I ain't posting about this sh!t..

530+ replies later..

LMAO
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- NOPE!!! CAN'T WIN A RING WITHOUT D. FISH!!

  

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Beamer6178
Member since Jan 09th 2006
6379 posts
Thu Jul-30-09 10:41 AM

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538. "RE: the best part is everyone prolly said"
In response to Reply # 537


  

          

tru nuff, melmag deserves a medal

  

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melmag
Charter member
18469 posts
Thu Sep-16-10 09:58 AM

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540. "ARCHIVE!!!"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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TRENDone
Charter member
15616 posts
Fri Sep-17-10 08:10 AM

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541. "KB vs. MJ: Career PPG, FG%, 3pt%, AND FT %"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

MJ reg season:
30.1, 49.7%, 32.7%, 83.5%

MJ playoffs:
33.4, 48.7%, 33.2%, 82.8%


KB reg season:
25.3, 45.5%, 34.0%, 83.8%

KB playoffs:
25.5, 44.8%, 37.4%, 81.5%

better SCORER? numbers don't lie, but kobe has more than twice as many 3ptrs made and attempted.

____________________________________________________________________

San Diego State's holy trinity of sports:
Kawhi Leonard
Marshall Faulk
Tony Gwynn (RIP)

#Aztec4Life

  

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auragin_boi
Member since Aug 01st 2003
20939 posts
Fri Sep-17-10 09:56 AM

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542. "Damn...my latest post crushed O_E and EL's arguments to me"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

in this post.

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=8&topic_id=1558864&mesg_id=1558864&listing_type=search

____________

  

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Beamer6178
Member since Jan 09th 2006
6379 posts
Fri Sep-17-10 01:26 PM

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543. "RE: Damn...my latest post crushed O_E and EL's arguments to me"
In response to Reply # 542


  

          

>in this post.
>
>http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=8&topic_id=1558864&mesg_id=1558864&listing_type=search


u mean OE and LB right?

  

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Beamer6178
Member since Jan 09th 2006
6379 posts
Fri Sep-17-10 01:49 PM

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544. "RE: Damn...my latest post crushed O_E and EL's arguments to me"
In response to Reply # 542


  

          

>in this post.
>
>http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=8&topic_id=1558864&mesg_id=1558864&listing_type=search

shit, my post #519 in THIS thread shut them the fuck down.

  

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El_essence
Charter member
24899 posts
Fri Sep-17-10 06:20 PM

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546. "huh? what was my argument?"
In response to Reply # 542


  

          

.

  

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cali_steve
Member since Aug 06th 2009
163 posts
Fri Sep-17-10 04:41 PM

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545. "This post is filled with a lot of hatred..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Really Kobe haters? He can't do anything better than Jordan... More range? Better handle? No way possible?

It's fine if Jordan is the better player most people don't care. Can he get some props for having the full offensive array in a day in age where wing talent is way deeper than when Jordan played?

Ya'll act like people can't be mentioned in the same breath as Jordan when that's all people wanted to do for the last 15 years. Gill...NO, Harper...NO, Miner...NO, Hardaway...No, Carter...NO, Hill...NO, Iverson...NO, McGrady...NO, Wade...NO, LeBron...NO, Kobe...well kinda. Now everyone is mad.

>>Expert on all things Cali

  

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El_essence
Charter member
24899 posts
Fri Sep-17-10 06:23 PM

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547. "gotdamn @ post 419 smh"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

.

  

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DaHumanA8stract
Charter member
880 posts
Fri Sep-17-10 06:48 PM

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548. "haha..thank you thank you thank you"
In response to Reply # 547


          

looking back..the hell was i thinking? ha

"iamrecogninzingthatthevoi
ceinsidemyheadisurgingm
etobemyselfandneverfollow
someoneelse..." - Q-Tip

  

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LBs Finest
Member since Sep 28th 2005
19846 posts
Fri Sep-17-10 10:17 PM

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550. ""i hate kobe" would be my best guess"
In response to Reply # 548


  

          

>looking back..the hell was i thinking? ha

_________________________

  

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LBs Finest
Member since Sep 28th 2005
19846 posts
Fri Sep-17-10 10:17 PM

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551. "damn me and OE HELD IT DOWN IN THIS BITCH!"
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Sep-17-10 10:32 PM by LBs Finest

  

          

lol @ beamer dickriding ass dismissing Phil's word as just another opinion.

_________________________

  

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melmag
Charter member
18469 posts
Fri Sep-17-10 10:56 PM

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552. "yet it was widely debunked kobe is a better scorer"
In response to Reply # 551


  

          


jokes on you bruh

  

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Kira
Member since Nov 14th 2004
28846 posts
Sat Sep-18-10 12:35 AM

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554. "^^^"
In response to Reply # 551


  

          

Phil did say it and who is a better judge than Mr.11 rings?

No empathy for white misery (c) BDot

"root for everybody black haters say that's crazy, wow..."

  

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